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Hunt takes clear lead in the next CON leader betting – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:



    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    A tip. When you make a mistake, as I did about the invasion, it's often best just to admit it and back away from the topic.
    Are you saying those tickets are real?
    You came in very, very, strongly opinionated from the get-go on Saturday evening with some remarks about Liverpool fans that I think you should have retracted.

    My opinion is that you should drop it and wait for the full proper and professionally conducted enquiry. Then by all means pitch your opinion.

    There's far too much of this on the internet, including on here: people spouting opinions when they are not experts and don't have full command of the facts.

    Peace.

    x
    Sorry but no ... we shouldn't be afraid to call out the knobheads.
    The worst thing about the internet is precisely this.

    Someone failing to recognise or admit their own error, becoming more entrenched and opinionated.

    Sorry really is the hardest word.

    Have a good day everyone.

    xx
    I'm not the one that turned up to a football match with a fake ticket.
    Why are you blaming the victims of a crime and not the criminal who sold fraudulent tickets?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,096
    edited June 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    You live in the UAE and I expect you are a money'd Expat - raking in a large amount of tax free earnings and enjoying your Non Dom status whilst still being able to vote Conservative.

    You really do not represent the views of the majority of British people on these shores.

    Ciao ciao
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    You live in the UAE and I expect you are a money'd Expat - raking in a large amount of tax free earnings and enjoying your Non Dom status whilst still being able to vote Conservative.

    You really do not represent the views of the majority of British people on these shores.

    Ciao ciao
    LOL. So wrong about everything, as always.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,013

    kjh said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    If Boris won a vote of no confidence from his MPs I think there would be a few defections or a small group split away. It would be suicide for them but it might be enough to bring the govt down. That is my fantasy punt.
    Good morning

    The vonc next week will fatally wound Boris and if he survives the forthcoming by election results will be a massacre and it is then upto the rebels to inform the whips that they will vote against HMG until he is gone

    On Hunt I do not see him winning the membership vote even if he gets to the last 2 and I rather think it is hope by some over expectation

    As for Boris calling an election I just cannot see that at all

    Anyway, let's s hope he is history very soon and I am confident that my prediction some time ago that a vonc will happen next week will come to pass
    There is always a tipping point in gradual events. Until this week it was more likely there would not be a contest. This week it is more likely - and increasingly so with every passing day - that there will be a contest.

    The rewriting of the ministerial code - the one that Boris rampers said nobody cares about - appears to have been the final self-inflicted blow. For it has brought into sharp effect that the rule of law does not apply and has prompted the most extraordinary response from Geidt who has basically called the PM a liar and a sham artist.

    I know that standards and decency and probity have all gone in the bin, but there are enough Tory MPs who cling onto the idea that such things are important. Johnson's response to the Gray report has done more damage than the report itself.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:



    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    A tip. When you make a mistake, as I did about the invasion, it's often best just to admit it and back away from the topic.
    Are you saying those tickets are real?
    You came in very, very, strongly opinionated from the get-go on Saturday evening with some remarks about Liverpool fans that I think you should have retracted.

    My opinion is that you should drop it and wait for the full proper and professionally conducted enquiry. Then by all means pitch your opinion.

    There's far too much of this on the internet, including on here: people spouting opinions when they are not experts and don't have full command of the facts.

    Peace.

    x
    Sorry but no ... we shouldn't be afraid to call out the knobheads.
    The worst thing about the internet is precisely this.

    Someone failing to recognise or admit their own error, becoming more entrenched and opinionated.

    Sorry really is the hardest word.

    Have a good day everyone.

    xx
    I'm not the one that turned up to a football match with a fake ticket.
    Very few people, I suggest, do so deliberately. Carelessly, perhaps.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336
    Andy_JS said:

    John Gray in the New Statesman.

    "As things stand, Starmer could become prime minister from sheer Tory inanition. Johnson seems bent on continuing his lurch to defeat and a lucrative career impersonating himself in after-dinner speeches. Yet Labour could still be thwarted if Conservative MPs can rouse themselves from fear and torpor. Deposing Johnson and installing any one of his rivals would be a sign they are serious about staying in power. The prospect of some form of proportional voting for Westminster, which could lock the Tories out of government indefinitely, could be averted or postponed."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/05/tony-blairs-new-centrist-project-shows-he-and-his-acolytes-have-learned-nothing

    What does inanition mean?

    Does he mean onanism?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:



    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    A tip. When you make a mistake, as I did about the invasion, it's often best just to admit it and back away from the topic.
    Are you saying those tickets are real?
    You came in very, very, strongly opinionated from the get-go on Saturday evening with some remarks about Liverpool fans that I think you should have retracted.

    My opinion is that you should drop it and wait for the full proper and professionally conducted enquiry. Then by all means pitch your opinion.

    There's far too much of this on the internet, including on here: people spouting opinions when they are not experts and don't have full command of the facts.

    Peace.

    x
    Sorry but no ... we shouldn't be afraid to call out the knobheads.
    The worst thing about the internet is precisely this.

    Someone failing to recognise or admit their own error, becoming more entrenched and opinionated.

    Sorry really is the hardest word.

    Have a good day everyone.

    xx
    I'm not the one that turned up to a football match with a fake ticket.
    Why are you blaming the victims of a crime and not the criminal who sold fraudulent tickets?
    Unless they bought those fake tickets from Liverpool or UEFA, they are not victims, they are perpetrators.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    When’s Crossover?

    NOM 1.82
    Con Maj 3.85
    Lab Maj 4.6

    Lab Maj looks a bit tempting right now. But I think it's a losing bet if Boris goes, and I'm not 100% confident he'll stay.
    Lab Maj still looks dreadful value. Key indicators are:

    - the Midlands VI: even-stevens in the latest YouGov
    - and SLab VI: an unimpressive 22% in the latest YouGov (they need 30% to even get into double figures for Jock seats
    Economic woes could hurt Tories and SNP at the same time.
    Far from nailed on, but the central estimate has to be economic pain leading to reactions against parties in power. If we tip into recession and start to see job losses, the VI *could* shift a fair amount.
    - “Economic woes could hurt Tories and SNP at the same time.”

    Absolutely, Sterling becoming an Emerging Market currency is the fault of the Scottish Government. 😉

    But you actually make a serious point. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the dire economic situation will be blamed on all four incumbents: Drakeford, Johnson, O'Neill and Sturgeon. However, evidence that that is what is happening is weak. For example, the SNP just won our eleventh election in a row, with our strongest ever performance in local government elections.

    And this being a betting blog, what do punters think? Look at the prices of the principal opponents of the English and Scottish first ministers:

    Next English FM/PM Starmer 7/1

    Next Scottish FM/PM Sarwar 16/1
    Next Scottish FM/PM Ross 18/1

    Bearing in mind that the Starmer price is very long due to an imminent VONC in Johnson, it is clear that the markets judge that Johnson being kicked out is much more likely than Sturgeon being kicked out. Why? Well, part of the answer must surely be that the coming economic maelstrom is going to get blamed fairly and squarely on the Brexit Revolutionary Party.
    Shocking but typical that the SNP will refuse to take responsibility for decisions taken by the PM, Chancellor and the BoE. Only by taking the blame and being kicked out by voters will the SNP show that they're serious about Scottish independence.
    Fortunately @Farooq is a cerebral poster. He is definitely not of the SNP BAD persuasion which you so accurately parody.

    It is only fair to consider that he might well have a good hypothesis here: that the economic shitstorm might harm *all* incumbents and not just the guilty party.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454
    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    Biden sends Ukraine long range artillery.

    Ukraine war: US to send longer-range rockets in latest aid package
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61655577

    Sounds as though it’s going to be too late to save the Donbas region though.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653

    Andy_JS said:

    John Gray in the New Statesman.

    "As things stand, Starmer could become prime minister from sheer Tory inanition. Johnson seems bent on continuing his lurch to defeat and a lucrative career impersonating himself in after-dinner speeches. Yet Labour could still be thwarted if Conservative MPs can rouse themselves from fear and torpor. Deposing Johnson and installing any one of his rivals would be a sign they are serious about staying in power. The prospect of some form of proportional voting for Westminster, which could lock the Tories out of government indefinitely, could be averted or postponed."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/05/tony-blairs-new-centrist-project-shows-he-and-his-acolytes-have-learned-nothing

    What does inanition mean?

    Does he mean onanism?
    Lack of mental vigour/gumption.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Heathener said:

    As a victim of a paedophile rapist it is not the place of the Archbishop of Canterbury to forgive. Only victims could possibly be in a position to do that.

    It was crass of Welby but he was led into the trap by Tom Bradby.

    Wait: Welby is the victim of a pedophile rapist???
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002

    Why is Twitter full of speculation about Carrie and Boris Johnson divorcing? Have I missed something? After a quick search I cannot see anything in the establishment media.

    Supposedly she has dumped him and shacked up with x, with yet another Johnson superinjunction to shut everyone up. Like the last one of those, the press can't talk about what's disappeared into the black hole, but can talk about the ooh what a massive black hole / I wonder where Carrie is juxtaposition.

    No idea whether its true or not. I think the last time she was exhibited in public was the PM physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.
    That had ‘Marriage Made in Hell’ right from the second Westminster Cathedral imprudently opened their door to the twice-divorced Oaf and his latest mug. The whole thing was just tacky beyond belief. If there is a Good Boris in there, deep inside the repulsive, corpulent Bad Boris, it must be suffering an agonising, tortuous demise. I hope he finds redemption once he’s out of the public eye. There is hope for every soul… if they truly repent.

    - “… physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.”

    Presumably she voted Lib Dem.
    I want Boris gone as much as anyone, but there is something distasteful about commenting on a relationship that is simply based on a twitter rumour which by the way has no evidence to support the smears and is just done through pure hatred

    I understand Boris and Carrie held the christening of their youngster last week and I for one do not wish their relationship to be affected by false and malicious gossip

    Concentrate on Boris and ensuring the end to his premiership
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879

    Why is Twitter full of speculation about Carrie and Boris Johnson divorcing? Have I missed something? After a quick search I cannot see anything in the establishment media.

    Supposedly she has dumped him and shacked up with x, with yet another Johnson superinjunction to shut everyone up. Like the last one of those, the press can't talk about what's disappeared into the black hole, but can talk about the ooh what a massive black hole / I wonder where Carrie is juxtaposition.

    No idea whether its true or not. I think the last time she was exhibited in public was the PM physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.
    That had ‘Marriage Made in Hell’ right from the second Westminster Cathedral imprudently opened their door to the twice-divorced Oaf and his latest mug. The whole thing was just tacky beyond belief. If there is a Good Boris in there, deep inside the repulsive, corpulent Bad Boris, it must be suffering an agonising, tortuous demise. I hope he finds redemption once he’s out of the public eye. There is hope for every soul… if they truly repent.

    - “… physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.”

    Presumably she voted Lib Dem.

    There is nothing hidden about Boris Johnson, there are no depths. He is what he is: an entirely self-centred, grifting, liar.

  • TazTaz Posts: 10,703
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    Yes, the deference for ‘our NHS’ verges on the North Korean scale of worship.

    Never ceases to amaze me these claims that the Tories have a secret plan to privatise it/sell it off yet in spite of being in power for 12 years have never done so.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:



    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    A tip. When you make a mistake, as I did about the invasion, it's often best just to admit it and back away from the topic.
    Are you saying those tickets are real?
    You came in very, very, strongly opinionated from the get-go on Saturday evening with some remarks about Liverpool fans that I think you should have retracted.

    My opinion is that you should drop it and wait for the full proper and professionally conducted enquiry. Then by all means pitch your opinion.

    There's far too much of this on the internet, including on here: people spouting opinions when they are not experts and don't have full command of the facts.

    Peace.

    x
    Sorry but no ... we shouldn't be afraid to call out the knobheads.
    The worst thing about the internet is precisely this.

    Someone failing to recognise or admit their own error, becoming more entrenched and opinionated.

    Sorry really is the hardest word.

    Have a good day everyone.

    xx
    I'm not the one that turned up to a football match with a fake ticket.
    Why are you blaming the victims of a crime and not the criminal who sold fraudulent tickets?
    Unless they bought those fake tickets from Liverpool or UEFA, they are not victims, they are perpetrators.
    Can one be prosecuted for presenting a fraudulent ticket to gain entry to an event? It happened to me once, in the late 80s. Turned up at the Royal Albert Hall to see Eric Clapton as a birthday treat, and it turned out the tickets my girlfriend had bought were fake. Luckily she had deep enough pockets to just buy a couple of genuine ones on the door. (Seems a bit odd in retrospect that it wasn’t sold out. The place was packed once we were inside.)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Jonathan, I suspect those naturally inclined to be leftwing/dislike Conservatives might adopt your view.

    Hunt's been out of the spotlight for some time.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    ydoethur said:

    Biden sends Ukraine long range artillery.

    Ukraine war: US to send longer-range rockets in latest aid package
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61655577

    Sounds as though it’s going to be too late to save the Donbas region though.

    Too late to save Luhansk Oblast, but there is lots of Donetsk still in Ukrainian hands.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    When’s Crossover?

    NOM 1.82
    Con Maj 3.85
    Lab Maj 4.6

    Lab Maj looks a bit tempting right now. But I think it's a losing bet if Boris goes, and I'm not 100% confident he'll stay.
    Lab Maj still looks dreadful value. Key indicators are:

    - the Midlands VI: even-stevens in the latest YouGov
    - and SLab VI: an unimpressive 22% in the latest YouGov (they need 30% to even get into double figures for Jock seats
    Economic woes could hurt Tories and SNP at the same time.
    Far from nailed on, but the central estimate has to be economic pain leading to reactions against parties in power. If we tip into recession and start to see job losses, the VI *could* shift a fair amount.
    - “Economic woes could hurt Tories and SNP at the same time.”

    Absolutely, Sterling becoming an Emerging Market currency is the fault of the Scottish Government. 😉

    But you actually make a serious point. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the dire economic situation will be blamed on all four incumbents: Drakeford, Johnson, O'Neill and Sturgeon. However, evidence that that is what is happening is weak. For example, the SNP just won our eleventh election in a row, with our strongest ever performance in local government elections.

    And this being a betting blog, what do punters think? Look at the prices of the principal opponents of the English and Scottish first ministers:

    Next English FM/PM Starmer 7/1

    Next Scottish FM/PM Sarwar 16/1
    Next Scottish FM/PM Ross 18/1

    Bearing in mind that the Starmer price is very long due to an imminent VONC in Johnson, it is clear that the markets judge that Johnson being kicked out is much more likely than Sturgeon being kicked out. Why? Well, part of the answer must surely be that the coming economic maelstrom is going to get blamed fairly and squarely on the Brexit Revolutionary Party.
    Shocking but typical that the SNP will refuse to take responsibility for decisions taken by the PM, Chancellor and the BoE. Only by taking the blame and being kicked out by voters will the SNP show that they're serious about Scottish independence.
    Fortunately @Farooq is a cerebral poster. He is definitely not of the SNP BAD persuasion which you so accurately parody.

    It is only fair to consider that he might well have a good hypothesis here: that the economic shitstorm might harm *all* incumbents and not just the guilty party.
    Yes, that's it exactly. It's not as though being held responsible by the public and actually being responsible are the same thing. I don't think many of the 485 Conservative councillors who lost their jobs last month were actually at the Downing Street vomitorium. Probably a good many of them were sensible, law-abiding, and decent. But when the voters get a chance to express their displeasure, what matters is the rosette.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Jonathan, disagree. More than enough time has passed for it not to be a problem for Hunt (in particular).

    Wishful thinking. The only interesting thing about Hunt is that he was Health Secretary for so long. He has tremendous baggage here. Each week for the next two years at PMQs “ As the longest serving Health Secretary like to explain why …”.
    Jeremy Hunt has a new book out, Zero, about reducing accident rates in the NHS. I'd not be quite so sure that his stint as Health Secretary or even his disastrous response to Exercise Cygnus disqualify him.
    I don’t mean to be childish, but I just cannot envisage a prime minister called Hunt. It is like giving your opponents ten free penalty kicks.
    There was a Cabinet minister called Balls
    There is a Cabinet minister called Truss. Clearly we have moved on from funny names.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    Yes, the deference for ‘our NHS’ verges on the North Korean scale of worship.

    Never ceases to amaze me these claims that the Tories have a secret plan to privatise it/sell it off yet in spite of being in power for 12 years have never done so.
    If the NHS model were so wonderful, why has no other Western country gone with a similar system?

    The only thing good about it, is that it’s relatively cheap - and maybe that “Save the NHS” was a good slogan to nudge behaviour during a pandemic.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited June 2022

    Mr. Jonathan, I suspect those naturally inclined to be leftwing/dislike Conservatives might adopt your view.

    Hunt's been out of the spotlight for some time.

    He’ll be Mr NHS. It’s like saying Nick Clegg could come back and not be Mr Tuition Fees. Hunt has baggage. The oppositions task will be to tie him to that.
    Let the public make up their own mind if the NHS is better or worse now.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    As a Brit living in the US, I can assure you that you do not want to replicate the system here.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,013
    edited June 2022

    Why is Twitter full of speculation about Carrie and Boris Johnson divorcing? Have I missed something? After a quick search I cannot see anything in the establishment media.

    Supposedly she has dumped him and shacked up with x, with yet another Johnson superinjunction to shut everyone up. Like the last one of those, the press can't talk about what's disappeared into the black hole, but can talk about the ooh what a massive black hole / I wonder where Carrie is juxtaposition.

    No idea whether its true or not. I think the last time she was exhibited in public was the PM physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.
    That had ‘Marriage Made in Hell’ right from the second Westminster Cathedral imprudently opened their door to the twice-divorced Oaf and his latest mug. The whole thing was just tacky beyond belief. If there is a Good Boris in there, deep inside the repulsive, corpulent Bad Boris, it must be suffering an agonising, tortuous demise. I hope he finds redemption once he’s out of the public eye. There is hope for every soul… if they truly repent.

    - “… physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.”

    Presumably she voted Lib Dem.
    I want Boris gone as much as anyone, but there is something distasteful about commenting on a relationship that is simply based on a twitter rumour which by the way has no evidence to support the smears and is just done through pure hatred

    I understand Boris and Carrie held the christening of their youngster last week and I for one do not wish their relationship to be affected by false and malicious gossip

    Concentrate on Boris and ensuring the end to his premiership
    We don't know that event happened either. A news story in the Daily Mail which itself is gossip of something a source claimed to have happened is hardly definitive.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:



    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    A tip. When you make a mistake, as I did about the invasion, it's often best just to admit it and back away from the topic.
    Are you saying those tickets are real?
    You came in very, very, strongly opinionated from the get-go on Saturday evening with some remarks about Liverpool fans that I think you should have retracted.

    My opinion is that you should drop it and wait for the full proper and professionally conducted enquiry. Then by all means pitch your opinion.

    There's far too much of this on the internet, including on here: people spouting opinions when they are not experts and don't have full command of the facts.

    Peace.

    x
    Sorry but no ... we shouldn't be afraid to call out the knobheads.
    The worst thing about the internet is precisely this.

    Someone failing to recognise or admit their own error, becoming more entrenched and opinionated.

    Sorry really is the hardest word.

    Have a good day everyone.

    xx
    I'm not the one that turned up to a football match with a fake ticket.
    Why are you blaming the victims of a crime and not the criminal who sold fraudulent tickets?
    Unless they bought those fake tickets from Liverpool or UEFA, they are not victims, they are perpetrators.
    Can one be prosecuted for presenting a fraudulent ticket to gain entry to an event? It happened to me once, in the late 80s. Turned up at the Royal Albert Hall to see Eric Clapton as a birthday treat, and it turned out the tickets my girlfriend had bought were fake. Luckily she had deep enough pockets to just buy a couple of genuine ones on the door. (Seems a bit odd in retrospect that it wasn’t sold out. The place was packed once we were inside.)
    To be honest, it's not really about criminal behaviour. It's about morals. Given the history of the club - and a lot of journalists like Conn are playing on it - you'd think Liverpool fans would only buy off from official sources (i.e. the club or UEFA).
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    FIFA World Cup Play-Off Semi-Final
    Hampden Park
    7:45 kick off this evening

    Scotland 2.42
    Ukraine 3.6

    I'd be on Scotland at that price.
    Not tempted. Scotland has a long track record thriving as the underdog. Remember our 0-0 victory over England.

    Our track record when FAV is less impressive. Iran, Peru, Costa Rica…
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Why is Twitter full of speculation about Carrie and Boris Johnson divorcing? Have I missed something? After a quick search I cannot see anything in the establishment media.

    Supposedly she has dumped him and shacked up with x, with yet another Johnson superinjunction to shut everyone up. Like the last one of those, the press can't talk about what's disappeared into the black hole, but can talk about the ooh what a massive black hole / I wonder where Carrie is juxtaposition.

    No idea whether its true or not. I think the last time she was exhibited in public was the PM physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.
    That had ‘Marriage Made in Hell’ right from the second Westminster Cathedral imprudently opened their door to the twice-divorced Oaf and his latest mug. The whole thing was just tacky beyond belief. If there is a Good Boris in there, deep inside the repulsive, corpulent Bad Boris, it must be suffering an agonising, tortuous demise. I hope he finds redemption once he’s out of the public eye. There is hope for every soul… if they truly repent.

    - “… physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.”

    Presumably she voted Lib Dem.
    I want Boris gone as much as anyone, but there is something distasteful about commenting on a relationship that is simply based on a twitter rumour which by the way has no evidence to support the smears and is just done through pure hatred

    I understand Boris and Carrie held the christening of their youngster last week and I for one do not wish their relationship to be affected by false and malicious gossip

    Concentrate on Boris and ensuring the end to his premiership
    What is the basis for you being so certain that the story is false?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    edited June 2022

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    Quite. In my day, and in my children's, one simply slapped in another application forthwith, possibly at a different site, and go it within a few weeks.

    (Boast; I didn't need to; passed first time!)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    As a Brit living in the US, I can assure you that you do not want to replicate the system here.
    Oh indeed. The biggest problem is that people assume that you have either the NHS or the American system - which are at the extreme ends of healthcare systems, and both completely fcuked for their own reasons. Everyone else has something in the middle, and almost all of them are better.

    That said, I’m sure your healthcare is awesome, and if you want to go and see pretty much any specialist you can get an appointment within a couple of days.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997

    Andy_JS said:

    John Gray in the New Statesman.

    "As things stand, Starmer could become prime minister from sheer Tory inanition. Johnson seems bent on continuing his lurch to defeat and a lucrative career impersonating himself in after-dinner speeches. Yet Labour could still be thwarted if Conservative MPs can rouse themselves from fear and torpor. Deposing Johnson and installing any one of his rivals would be a sign they are serious about staying in power. The prospect of some form of proportional voting for Westminster, which could lock the Tories out of government indefinitely, could be averted or postponed."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/05/tony-blairs-new-centrist-project-shows-he-and-his-acolytes-have-learned-nothing

    What does inanition mean?

    Does he mean onanism?
    I think it means not doing anything. But could mean "being inane'.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    I doubt many people remember him being health secretary, let alone what happened when we was doing the job.
    I'm not sure that's true tlg
    My only memory of his time as health secretary is that he stood up to junior doctors.
    In 2015 he promised 5000 more GPs. We now have 2000 fewer.

    Staff retention is the thing to address. April 2022 saw a new record in numbers retiring.
    Source?
    This data, up to 2020, shows an increase of 2000 from 2015. Do you have more recent data?
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/462235/general-practitioners-employment-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Not sure how this can be accelerated?

    He is likely to get a cancellation and can rearrange at no additional cost. He may need to be flexible as to which test centre he is tested at.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    The problem with Hunt is that Hunt won't win against the other candidate even if it was Nadine Dorries because the final electorate are Tory members and the what's left of Tory members are fanatics rather than realists.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    kjh said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    If Boris won a vote of no confidence from his MPs I think there would be a few defections or a small group split away. It would be suicide for them but it might be enough to bring the govt down. That is my fantasy punt.
    Good morning

    The vonc next week will fatally wound Boris and if he survives the forthcoming by election results will be a massacre and it is then upto the rebels to inform the whips that they will vote against HMG until he is gone

    On Hunt I do not see him winning the membership vote even if he gets to the last 2 and I rather think it is hope by some over expectation

    As for Boris calling an election I just cannot see that at all

    Anyway, let's s hope he is history very soon and I am confident that my prediction some time ago that a vonc will happen next week will come to pass
    Good morning Big G. Normally if you win a vonc but with a significant rebellion you resign anyway. I don't think applies to Boris though. If the rebels vote against the govt they will have the whip removed, effectively forming a non govt group. Re Hunt I have no idea to be honest.

    This feels like a time for fresh blood from the backbenches. You can do that in opposition, but it seems rash to do that if you are in govt and dropping someone with no experience into the role of PM. Scary.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,067
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    My first ever PB header covers the pseudo-religious aspect of the NHS. I dont think my views have altered much since:

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/07/01/three-score-and-ten-has-the-nhs-reached-the-end-of-its-natural-life/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    I doubt many people remember him being health secretary, let alone what happened when we was doing the job.
    I'm not sure that's true tlg
    My only memory of his time as health secretary is that he stood up to junior doctors.
    In 2015 he promised 5000 more GPs. We now have 2000 fewer.

    Staff retention is the thing to address. April 2022 saw a new record in numbers retiring.
    Source?
    This data, up to 2020, shows an increase of 2000 from 2015. Do you have more recent data?
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/462235/general-practitioners-employment-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
    Will they apply their hospital logic to GPs? Expecting my gp to be given a hair cut, Botox and a new sports jacket and be called a new GP.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    As a Brit living in the US, I can assure you that you do not want to replicate the system here.
    But the US healthcare system is highly profitable for people willing to pay lobbyists trying to create a similar approach here.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    As a Brit living in the US, I can assure you that you do not want to replicate the system here.
    This is part of how the religion preserves itself. Two countries with a common language and equally-and-oppositely shitty healthcare systems. Whenever somebody considers changing one of them to work more like the less shitty systems in most of the developed world, they get scared of moving away from their shitty extreme in case they end up like the other country at the oppositely shitty extreme.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    As a Brit living in the US, I can assure you that you do not want to replicate the system here.
    This is part of how the religion preserves itself. Two countries with a common language and equally-and-oppositely shitty healthcare systems. Whenever somebody considers changing one of them to work more like the less shitty systems in most of the developed world, they get scared of moving away from their shitty extreme in case they end up like the other country at the oppositely shitty extreme.
    Fair point.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    Quite. In my day, and in my children's, one simply slapped in another application forthwith, possibly at a different site, and go it within a few weeks.

    (Boast; I didn't need to; passed first time!)
    I put in my test application on my 17th birthday, and got a date 4 months later. This was in 1994. Nothing like a date to work towards, to make sure you practice lots and don’t screw it up. Fail, and have to spend another 4 months waiting.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    Yes, the deference for ‘our NHS’ verges on the North Korean scale of worship.

    Never ceases to amaze me these claims that the Tories have a secret plan to privatise it/sell it off yet in spite of being in power for 12 years have never done so.
    If the NHS model were so wonderful, why has no other Western country gone with a similar system?

    The only thing good about it, is that it’s relatively cheap - and maybe that “Save the NHS” was a good slogan to nudge behaviour during a pandemic.

    The NHS is like the London tube - the first of its kind. It was a brilliant innovation in its day but has been left behind by others that came afterwards. Because it is so entrenched, it is almost impossible to update. The only way, it seems to me, is a cross-party commission that begins with the founding principle of free at the point at contact. So, it will never happen.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    As a Brit living in the US, I can assure you that you do not want to replicate the system here.
    Oh indeed. The biggest problem is that people assume that you have either the NHS or the American system - which are at the extreme ends of healthcare systems, and both completely fcuked for their own reasons. Everyone else has something in the middle, and almost all of them are better.

    That said, I’m sure your healthcare is awesome, and if you want to go and see pretty much any specialist you can get an appointment within a couple of days.
    Sure: but in addition to paying about 45% tax, I also pay around thousands of dollars a year for me, and for each of my family, for healthcare.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    I'm not so bothered about it being illegal - I want to know how it's possible because booking a driving test is nigh on impossible...

    And if Twin B fails her driving test next Month she's waited so long for the test due to Covid that she will need to retake her theory before she can book another practical.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    Yes, the deference for ‘our NHS’ verges on the North Korean scale of worship.

    Never ceases to amaze me these claims that the Tories have a secret plan to privatise it/sell it off yet in spite of being in power for 12 years have never done so.
    If the NHS model were so wonderful, why has no other Western country gone with a similar system?

    The only thing good about it, is that it’s relatively cheap - and maybe that “Save the NHS” was a good slogan to nudge behaviour during a pandemic.
    It is absolutely cheap.

    The UK delivers healthcare - of broadly acceptable standard - to every Brit for less than the US spends to cover a small fraction of the population.

    And when I say "less", I don't just mean in absolute dollar/pound terms, I mean as a percentage of government spending.

    That's right - the UK spends a smaller fraction of spending on public healthcare than the US does, but manages to cover everyone.

    Now, are there better systems? Sure.

    But on a global scale, the UK spends remarkably little. It's far from perfect, and we could learn from (for example) France. But it is pretty good value for money.
    We've had a lot of dealings with the NHS over the past 18 months or so. What makes a big difference is if the person receiving care or a friend/relative of them can keep on top of the administration. Quite often the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, but if someone is seeking clarifications, chasing things up, then it's fine.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454
    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    I'm not so bothered about it being illegal - I want to know how it's possible because booking a driving test is nigh on impossible...

    And if Twin B fails her driving test next Month she's waited so long for the test due to Covid that she will need to retake her theory before she can book another practical.
    A significant reason that it is nigh on impossible is because touts are block booking hundreds at a time and selling them on for profit. The bbc article explains how it is done if you are interested.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    If Boris won a vote of no confidence from his MPs I think there would be a few defections or a small group split away. It would be suicide for them but it might be enough to bring the govt down. That is my fantasy punt.
    Good morning

    The vonc next week will fatally wound Boris and if he survives the forthcoming by election results will be a massacre and it is then upto the rebels to inform the whips that they will vote against HMG until he is gone

    On Hunt I do not see him winning the membership vote even if he gets to the last 2 and I rather think it is hope by some over expectation

    As for Boris calling an election I just cannot see that at all

    Anyway, let's s hope he is history very soon and I am confident that my prediction some time ago that a vonc will happen next week will come to pass
    Good morning Big G. Normally if you win a vonc but with a significant rebellion you resign anyway. I don't think applies to Boris though. If the rebels vote against the govt they will have the whip removed, effectively forming a non govt group. Re Hunt I have no idea to be honest.

    This feels like a time for fresh blood from the backbenches. You can do that in opposition, but it seems rash to do that if you are in govt and dropping someone with no experience into the role of PM. Scary.
    Yet the letter writing is anonymous and the VONC is private so exactly how would Bozo identify the people to purge.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    edited June 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    John Gray in the New Statesman.

    "As things stand, Starmer could become prime minister from sheer Tory inanition. Johnson seems bent on continuing his lurch to defeat and a lucrative career impersonating himself in after-dinner speeches. Yet Labour could still be thwarted if Conservative MPs can rouse themselves from fear and torpor. Deposing Johnson and installing any one of his rivals would be a sign they are serious about staying in power. The prospect of some form of proportional voting for Westminster, which could lock the Tories out of government indefinitely, could be averted or postponed."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/05/tony-blairs-new-centrist-project-shows-he-and-his-acolytes-have-learned-nothing

    What does inanition mean?

    Does he mean onanism?
    I think it means not doing anything. But could mean "being inane'.
    I thought it meant dying of starevation, but apparently also an idiom/metaphor for lack of mental or spiritual vigour and enthusiasm.

    Edit: but in this context it could just as well mean onanism (and not inappropriately for Tory MPs given their apparent assortment of hobbies, tractors downwards).
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    I see a lot of people making assertions about healthcare systems being good or bad, and very little in the way of evidence.
    I sometimes wonder whether half you people think something just because others are saying it.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    Quite. In my day, and in my children's, one simply slapped in another application forthwith, possibly at a different site, and go it within a few weeks.

    (Boast; I didn't need to; passed first time!)
    I thought you had to wait a month (it might have been in my day) but it is just 10 days.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    I'm not so bothered about it being illegal - I want to know how it's possible because booking a driving test is nigh on impossible...

    And if Twin B fails her driving test next Month she's waited so long for the test due to Covid that she will need to retake her theory before she can book another practical.
    Don't THINK GrandsonTwo has to repeat his theory, although it's similarly a long time since he took it, due to Covid.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Jonathan, disagree. More than enough time has passed for it not to be a problem for Hunt (in particular).

    Wishful thinking. The only interesting thing about Hunt is that he was Health Secretary for so long. He has tremendous baggage here. Each week for the next two years at PMQs “ As the longest serving Health Secretary like to explain why …”.
    Jeremy Hunt has a new book out, Zero, about reducing accident rates in the NHS. I'd not be quite so sure that his stint as Health Secretary or even his disastrous response to Exercise Cygnus disqualify him.
    I don’t mean to be childish, but I just cannot envisage a prime minister called Hunt. It is like giving your opponents ten free penalty kicks.
    Does make life very hard for TV newsreaders who have to remain supposedly and superficially impartial. Opponents, not so much.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    My first ever PB header covers the pseudo-religious aspect of the NHS. I dont think my views have altered much since:

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/07/01/three-score-and-ten-has-the-nhs-reached-the-end-of-its-natural-life/
    That’s a very good piece, doubly so as it identifies solutions as well as problems.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Jonathan, that just highlights the difference. The NHS is an organisation, tuition fees rising was a policy.

    Of course, Labour will bang on about the imminent demise of the NHS regardless of who the Conservative leader is.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,013
    eek said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    If Boris won a vote of no confidence from his MPs I think there would be a few defections or a small group split away. It would be suicide for them but it might be enough to bring the govt down. That is my fantasy punt.
    Good morning

    The vonc next week will fatally wound Boris and if he survives the forthcoming by election results will be a massacre and it is then upto the rebels to inform the whips that they will vote against HMG until he is gone

    On Hunt I do not see him winning the membership vote even if he gets to the last 2 and I rather think it is hope by some over expectation

    As for Boris calling an election I just cannot see that at all

    Anyway, let's s hope he is history very soon and I am confident that my prediction some time ago that a vonc will happen next week will come to pass
    Good morning Big G. Normally if you win a vonc but with a significant rebellion you resign anyway. I don't think applies to Boris though. If the rebels vote against the govt they will have the whip removed, effectively forming a non govt group. Re Hunt I have no idea to be honest.

    This feels like a time for fresh blood from the backbenches. You can do that in opposition, but it seems rash to do that if you are in govt and dropping someone with no experience into the role of PM. Scary.
    Yet the letter writing is anonymous and the VONC is private so exactly how would Bozo identify the people to purge.
    Is the MP in question a fawning lickspittle?
    If "no" then purge them.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited June 2022

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    I'm not so bothered about it being illegal - I want to know how it's possible because booking a driving test is nigh on impossible...

    And if Twin B fails her driving test next Month she's waited so long for the test due to Covid that she will need to retake her theory before she can book another practical.
    A significant reason that it is nigh on impossible is because touts are block booking hundreds at a time and selling them on for profit. The bbc article explains how it is done if you are interested.
    So the age old story of a separate easy to abuse system. But you also need to have hundreds of valid provisional driver licenses so I would love to see where they get those from.

    Easy solution to that one is to ban any account where over x% of tests are changed...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,046
    eek said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    If Boris won a vote of no confidence from his MPs I think there would be a few defections or a small group split away. It would be suicide for them but it might be enough to bring the govt down. That is my fantasy punt.
    Good morning

    The vonc next week will fatally wound Boris and if he survives the forthcoming by election results will be a massacre and it is then upto the rebels to inform the whips that they will vote against HMG until he is gone

    On Hunt I do not see him winning the membership vote even if he gets to the last 2 and I rather think it is hope by some over expectation

    As for Boris calling an election I just cannot see that at all

    Anyway, let's s hope he is history very soon and I am confident that my prediction some time ago that a vonc will happen next week will come to pass
    Good morning Big G. Normally if you win a vonc but with a significant rebellion you resign anyway. I don't think applies to Boris though. If the rebels vote against the govt they will have the whip removed, effectively forming a non govt group. Re Hunt I have no idea to be honest.

    This feels like a time for fresh blood from the backbenches. You can do that in opposition, but it seems rash to do that if you are in govt and dropping someone with no experience into the role of PM. Scary.
    Yet the letter writing is anonymous and the VONC is private so exactly how would Bozo identify the people to purge.
    Lord Brady could tell him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ludicrous, Hunt got just 33% with Conservative members in 2019.

    The landscape in 2019 was very different. Boris Johnson stood on a platform to Get Brexit Done. Following what many members saw as May's dithering and the botched Brexit it's remarkable that Hunt did as well as he did.

    The landscape three years later is very different.
    And Hunt still polls far worse with the public than say Wallace or Javid. As the Mori numbers I posted earlier show.

    If the Tories want a competent PM more appealing than Johnson they would pick Wallace not Hunt. Hunt might be more appealing to voters than Patel or Gove but that is about it.

    Hunt might win back a handful if wealthy Remainers in the Home counties and London but he would have less appeal to the redwall than Boris and the left also still hate Hunt because of his time as Health Secretary
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    In good news, just checked and apparently I have a bet on Hunt to be next PM at 19, tipped by someone or other called Mike Smithson.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    Farooq said:

    I see a lot of people making assertions about healthcare systems being good or bad, and very little in the way of evidence.
    I sometimes wonder whether half you people think something just because others are saying it.

    I've always felt that one of the 'problems' with healthcare is that those who get the shitty end of the stick are the people who are least likely to be able to complain effectively.
    That's changing a bit now, of course.

    It still seems Byzantine though, even when one has some idea of who does, or ought to do, what.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,781

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jonathan said:

    The crisis in the NHS is noose hanging around Hunts premiership.

    Ever since I can remember the NHS has been in one crisis or another. The boy has cried wolf so many times now.
    That’s what happens, when a very mediocre healthcare system is allowed to become a national religion.
    Yes, the deference for ‘our NHS’ verges on the North Korean scale of worship.

    Never ceases to amaze me these claims that the Tories have a secret plan to privatise it/sell it off yet in spite of being in power for 12 years have never done so.
    If the NHS model were so wonderful, why has no other Western country gone with a similar system?

    The only thing good about it, is that it’s relatively cheap - and maybe that “Save the NHS” was a good slogan to nudge behaviour during a pandemic.

    The NHS is like the London tube - the first of its kind. It was a brilliant innovation in its day but has been left behind by others that came afterwards. Because it is so entrenched, it is almost impossible to update. The only way, it seems to me, is a cross-party commission that begins with the founding principle of free at the point at contact. So, it will never happen.

    I think the Israeli system could be an option?Problem in rural areas is the lack of choice - if your local GP practice is rubbish you're in trouble.

    The other issue with healthcare is expenditure (as proportion of GDP) is not directly linked to demographics - it increases even if the number if older people is steady. If we project this trend forward over the next 50 years or so we can get some silly, frightening numbers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    Rees-Mogg invented his own constitutional convention that a leader who survives a VONC, but not by enough, should resign anyway, when he was whinging about May winning hers.

    I would love to see how he reverses position if Boris wins such a vote.

    7. Is definitely possible. The rule is meant to prevent challenges but doesnt mean people magically become happy.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Good morning everyone. There's another possibility, surely. Boris scrapes home and Durham issue VPN's to Starmer and Rayner.
    Boris immediately calls a GE, on the grounds that 'the public have a right choose their PM'!

    If that happens, you are going to be a PB legend.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Farooq said:

    I see a lot of people making assertions about healthcare systems being good or bad, and very little in the way of evidence.
    I sometimes wonder whether half you people think something just because others are saying it.

    The grass is greener. I work with Germans. They frequently complain about their ‘shitty’ health system.

    I’ve benefited hugely from the NHS over the years. In the last 5 years I’ve had to deal with MS, stroke, dementia, Leukaemia, Cluster headaches, Breast cancer, lung cancer and myriad little things in my immediate family.

    The fact money was never an issue means a lot to me. I could focus on my loved ones.

    That being said the way the NHS works is still a mystery. It could be organised so much more efficiently.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    I'm not so bothered about it being illegal - I want to know how it's possible because booking a driving test is nigh on impossible...

    And if Twin B fails her driving test next Month she's waited so long for the test due to Covid that she will need to retake her theory before she can book another practical.
    Don't THINK GrandsonTwo has to repeat his theory, although it's similarly a long time since he took it, due to Covid.
    Theory tests only lasts 2 years before they need to be redone.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Jonathan, disagree. More than enough time has passed for it not to be a problem for Hunt (in particular).

    Wishful thinking. The only interesting thing about Hunt is that he was Health Secretary for so long. He has tremendous baggage here. Each week for the next two years at PMQs “ As the longest serving Health Secretary like to explain why …”.
    Jeremy Hunt has a new book out, Zero, about reducing accident rates in the NHS. I'd not be quite so sure that his stint as Health Secretary or even his disastrous response to Exercise Cygnus disqualify him.
    I don’t mean to be childish, but I just cannot envisage a prime minister called Hunt. It is like giving your opponents ten free penalty kicks.
    Does make life very hard for TV newsreaders who have to remain supposedly and superficially impartial. Opponents, not so much.
    The BBC called him Jeremy C*** on air so many times, that it was clear they used that nickname for him in the newsroom.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Jonathan, disagree. More than enough time has passed for it not to be a problem for Hunt (in particular).

    Wishful thinking. The only interesting thing about Hunt is that he was Health Secretary for so long. He has tremendous baggage here. Each week for the next two years at PMQs “ As the longest serving Health Secretary like to explain why …”.
    Jeremy Hunt has a new book out, Zero, about reducing accident rates in the NHS. I'd not be quite so sure that his stint as Health Secretary or even his disastrous response to Exercise Cygnus disqualify him.
    I don’t mean to be childish, but I just cannot envisage a prime minister called Hunt. It is like giving your opponents ten free penalty kicks.
    Does make life very hard for TV newsreaders who have to remain supposedly and superficially impartial. Opponents, not so much.
    James Naughty led the way already in 2010.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    edited June 2022

    Why is Twitter full of speculation about Carrie and Boris Johnson divorcing? Have I missed something? After a quick search I cannot see anything in the establishment media.

    Supposedly she has dumped him and shacked up with x, with yet another Johnson superinjunction to shut everyone up. Like the last one of those, the press can't talk about what's disappeared into the black hole, but can talk about the ooh what a massive black hole / I wonder where Carrie is juxtaposition.

    No idea whether its true or not. I think the last time she was exhibited in public was the PM physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.
    That had ‘Marriage Made in Hell’ right from the second Westminster Cathedral imprudently opened their door to the twice-divorced Oaf and his latest mug. The whole thing was just tacky beyond belief. If there is a Good Boris in there, deep inside the repulsive, corpulent Bad Boris, it must be suffering an agonising, tortuous demise. I hope he finds redemption once he’s out of the public eye. There is hope for every soul… if they truly repent.

    - “… physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.”

    Presumably she voted Lib Dem.
    I want Boris gone as much as anyone, but there is something distasteful about commenting on a relationship that is simply based on a twitter rumour which by the way has no evidence to support the smears and is just done through pure hatred

    I understand Boris and Carrie held the christening of their youngster last week and I for one do not wish their relationship to be affected by false and malicious gossip

    Concentrate on Boris and ensuring the end to his premiership
    You are, I think, far too kind. I think it is entirely legitimate for us to want to know if Mr J's attention is likely to be off his duties. I imagine it would be outrageous, hypothetically, if he were to consider the mere possibility of taking out a superinjunction which had the primary or secondary effect of concealing that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited June 2022
    Heathener said:

    As a victim of a paedophile rapist it is not the place of the Archbishop of Canterbury to forgive. Only victims could possibly be in a position to do that.

    It was crass of Welby but he was led into the trap by Tom Bradby.

    Sorry to hear about your past experience. However it is a core Christian message to forgive those who repent, if they truly repent so Welby was right on that.

    He only has a year or 2 left as Archbishop of anyway, the Archbishop of York Stephen Cottrell, who will stand in for Welby and deliver the sermon at the Jubilee Service on Friday, probably favourite to succeed him
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    edited June 2022

    Good morning everyone. There's another possibility, surely. Boris scrapes home and Durham issue VPN's to Starmer and Rayner.
    Boris immediately calls a GE, on the grounds that 'the public have a right choose their PM'!

    If that happens, you are going to be a PB legend.
    That's what I suggested in part yesterday ... but if OKC is agreeing and extending the analysis ...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454
    eek said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    I'm not so bothered about it being illegal - I want to know how it's possible because booking a driving test is nigh on impossible...

    And if Twin B fails her driving test next Month she's waited so long for the test due to Covid that she will need to retake her theory before she can book another practical.
    A significant reason that it is nigh on impossible is because touts are block booking hundreds at a time and selling them on for profit. The bbc article explains how it is done if you are interested.
    So the age old story of a separate easy to abuse system. But you also need to have hundreds of valid provisional driver licenses so I would love to see where they get those from.

    Easy solution to that one is to ban any account where over x% of tests are changed...
    The touts will already have many thousands of people connected to their existing systems that they are using for concerts, football matches, shopping where demand exceeds current supply etc. The bigger touts, probably tens of thousands. I would guess universities a fruitful recruiting ground for such "agents" who get a small kickback for providing their details.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Jonathan, disagree. More than enough time has passed for it not to be a problem for Hunt (in particular).

    Wishful thinking. The only interesting thing about Hunt is that he was Health Secretary for so long. He has tremendous baggage here. Each week for the next two years at PMQs “ As the longest serving Health Secretary like to explain why …”.
    Jeremy Hunt has a new book out, Zero, about reducing accident rates in the NHS. I'd not be quite so sure that his stint as Health Secretary or even his disastrous response to Exercise Cygnus disqualify him.
    I don’t mean to be childish, but I just cannot envisage a prime minister called Hunt. It is like giving your opponents ten free penalty kicks.
    Does make life very hard for TV newsreaders who have to remain supposedly and superficially impartial. Opponents, not so much.
    The BBC called him Jeremy C*** on air so many times, that it was clear they used that nickname for him in the newsroom.
    Maggie Thatcher Milk Snatcher! Seemed so biting back then.

    More innocent times.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    edited June 2022
    kle4 said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    Rees-Mogg invented his own constitutional convention that a leader who survives a VONC, but not by enough, should resign anyway, when he was whinging about May winning hers.

    I would love to see how he reverses position if Boris wins such a vote.

    7. Is definitely possible. The rule is meant to prevent challenges but doesnt mean people magically become happy.
    Didn't bother Labour when in 2010 they said a PM was a PM was a PM until he resigned, and then in 2015 briefed a PM who didn't win outright should resign at once.

    Interestingly on both occasions they were completely wrong, and both times it militated against their own best interests.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    eek said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    If Boris won a vote of no confidence from his MPs I think there would be a few defections or a small group split away. It would be suicide for them but it might be enough to bring the govt down. That is my fantasy punt.
    Good morning

    The vonc next week will fatally wound Boris and if he survives the forthcoming by election results will be a massacre and it is then upto the rebels to inform the whips that they will vote against HMG until he is gone

    On Hunt I do not see him winning the membership vote even if he gets to the last 2 and I rather think it is hope by some over expectation

    As for Boris calling an election I just cannot see that at all

    Anyway, let's s hope he is history very soon and I am confident that my prediction some time ago that a vonc will happen next week will come to pass
    Good morning Big G. Normally if you win a vonc but with a significant rebellion you resign anyway. I don't think applies to Boris though. If the rebels vote against the govt they will have the whip removed, effectively forming a non govt group. Re Hunt I have no idea to be honest.

    This feels like a time for fresh blood from the backbenches. You can do that in opposition, but it seems rash to do that if you are in govt and dropping someone with no experience into the role of PM. Scary.
    Yet the letter writing is anonymous and the VONC is private so exactly how would Bozo identify the people to purge.
    You misunderstand my post. Big G was suggesting the rebels vote against the govt in day to day legislation if he doesn't go. Obviously they are known then and would have the whip removed and that wouldn't be a purge as such as it is routine to remove the whip under those circumstances anyway. If it did happen it would be the end and not different in effect to my guess which is actual defections if he carries on after winning a vonc with significant numbers against.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    No way the members vote for the guy who put the pandemic preparedness plan in the circular filing cabinet under his desk.

    He had a good pandemic though. Very sensible and a safe pair of hands attitude.

    He's also outside the Cabinet and I think the stench of partygate, cronyism and corruption would be very hard for anyone in Johnson's team to shake off.

    I'll put this slightly more firmly: living out in the Middle East as you do I really don't think you have your finger on the pulse of this country.
    I think the idea people living within a country are inherently more likely to have their finger on the pulse of that country than those without is not borne out by the reality of most within it not having a clue. Especially if the persons living elsewhere consume and are immersed in, say, UK media. Or they might gain a better perspective with some distance, it could be argued.

    I've always felt the 'but you live in the USA/Sweden/Tokyo/Switzerland/Dubai/etc' line is an unnecessary retort.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Talking of less innocent times, what is it with naked tv dating shows?

    After Decadence came Fascism last time round. Will history repeat itself?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    edited June 2022
    eek said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    After the real v fake tickets were shown by the French, you'd think news outlets would be careful about what they show. Yesterday it was Sky, this morning it's the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/number-of-fake-liverpool-champions-league-final-tickets-was-just-2800

    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    Touts have moved on to driving license tests now! Yes, really, who would have thought that?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61265729
    Grandson Two failed his practical driving test last week. Told next available likely to be late Aug/Sept.
    Temptation to use some of his summer earnings to 'accelerate' is quite high.
    Why the f*** is this not illegal? Crazy what we allow to be inflicted on the young that would not have been tolerated in society as we were growing up ourselves.
    I'm not so bothered about it being illegal - I want to know how it's possible because booking a driving test is nigh on impossible...

    And if Twin B fails her driving test next Month she's waited so long for the test due to Covid that she will need to retake her theory before she can book another practical.
    Don't THINK GrandsonTwo has to repeat his theory, although it's similarly a long time since he took it, due to Covid.
    Theory tests only lasts 2 years before they need to be redone.
    This was the nightmare scenario with my daughter.

    Failed theory five times (three times by getting 84% rather than 85% and once by passing the theory bit but failing the hazard perception bit). Then failed practical for one thing only which IMO was harsh*. Waiting list for retest was over 5 months. But luckily she got this accelerated due to a cancellation and passed second time.

    * she entered a roundabout in wrong lane. She should have been in left lane as the instruction was to turn left. She realised her mistake and checked mirrors etc, indicated left, and corrected the error. There was no other traffic on the roundabout. I would argue this was fine but the the examiner failed her for getting into the wrong lane at a roundabout in the first place.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    I've just done one of those consumer surveys that the FT does to give you free access to one of their articles.

    Q1. Which of these branches of the US military have you heard of (Navy, Army, Space Force, Marines)?

    Q2. Which of these branches would you consider buying?

    Q3. Which of these branches would you buy in the next 3 months?

    I mean, I knew things were bad, but...

    :lol:

    They are also missing another four uniformed services.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585

    kjh said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    If Boris won a vote of no confidence from his MPs I think there would be a few defections or a small group split away. It would be suicide for them but it might be enough to bring the govt down. That is my fantasy punt.
    Good morning

    The vonc next week will fatally wound Boris and if he survives the forthcoming by election results will be a massacre and it is then upto the rebels to inform the whips that they will vote against HMG until he is gone

    On Hunt I do not see him winning the membership vote even if he gets to the last 2 and I rather think it is hope by some over expectation

    As for Boris calling an election I just cannot see that at all

    Anyway, let's s hope he is history very soon and I am confident that my prediction some time ago that a vonc will happen next week will come to pass
    Do you believe Prime Minister Patel will tone down some of her more extreme rhetoric once in office?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    Rees-Mogg invented his own constitutional convention that a leader who survives a VONC, but not by enough, should resign anyway, when he was whinging about May winning hers.

    I would love to see how he reverses position if Boris wins such a vote.

    7. Is definitely possible. The rule is meant to prevent challenges but doesnt mean people magically become happy.
    Didn't bother Labour when in 2010 they said a PM was a PM was a PM until he resigned, and then in 2015 briefed a PM who didn't win outright should resign at once.

    Interestingly on both occasions they were completely wrong, and both times it militated against their own best interests.
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    Rees-Mogg invented his own constitutional convention that a leader who survives a VONC, but not by enough, should resign anyway, when he was whinging about May winning hers.

    I would love to see how he reverses position if Boris wins such a vote.

    7. Is definitely possible. The rule is meant to prevent challenges but doesnt mean people magically become happy.
    Didn't bother Labour when in 2010 they said a PM was a PM was a PM until he resigned, and then in 2015 briefed a PM who didn't win outright should resign at once.

    Interestingly on both occasions they were completely wrong, and both times it militated against their own best interests.
    I know it would bother him to shamelessly argue a contrary position, but itd be amusing to see a stupid man attempt it and think he's clever enough to be persuasive.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    kle4 said:

    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    No way the members vote for the guy who put the pandemic preparedness plan in the circular filing cabinet under his desk.

    He had a good pandemic though. Very sensible and a safe pair of hands attitude.

    He's also outside the Cabinet and I think the stench of partygate, cronyism and corruption would be very hard for anyone in Johnson's team to shake off.

    I'll put this slightly more firmly: living out in the Middle East as you do I really don't think you have your finger on the pulse of this country.
    I think the idea people living within a country are inherently more likely to have their finger on the pulse of that country than those without is not borne out by the reality of most within it not having a clue. Especially if the persons living elsewhere consume and are immersed in, say, UK media. Or they might gain a better perspective with some distance, it could be argued.

    I've always felt the 'but you live in the USA/Sweden/Tokyo/Switzerland/Dubai/etc' line is an unnecessary retort.
    Do Channel Islands tax exiles count?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    As a victim of a paedophile rapist it is not the place of the Archbishop of Canterbury to forgive. Only victims could possibly be in a position to do that.

    It was crass of Welby but he was led into the trap by Tom Bradby.

    Sorry to hear about your past experience. However it is a core Christian message to forgive those who repent, if they truly repent so Welby was right on that.

    He only has a year or 2 left as Archbishop of anyway, the Archbishop of York Stephen Cottrell, who will stand in for Welby and deliver the sermon at the Jubilee Service on Friday, probably favourite to succeed him
    I would be surprised. Cottrell is only three years younger than Welby and Welby clearly intends to stay until 70. In fact there's a reasonable chance Cottrell will retire first.

    I would suggest a more likely candidate is Graham Usher, Bishop of Norwich, but that presupposes the next Archbishop will be (a) male and (b) English, both of which are likely but not certain.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    Good morning everyone. There's another possibility, surely. Boris scrapes home and Durham issue VPN's to Starmer and Rayner.
    Boris immediately calls a GE, on the grounds that 'the public have a right choose their PM'!

    If that happens, you are going to be a PB legend.
    That's what I suggested in part yesterday ... but if OKC is agreeing and extending the analysis ...
    But you’re already a PB legend. OKC is a sprightly candidate.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    As a victim of a paedophile rapist it is not the place of the Archbishop of Canterbury to forgive. Only victims could possibly be in a position to do that.

    It was crass of Welby but he was led into the trap by Tom Bradby.

    Sorry to hear about your past experience. However it is a core Christian message to forgive those who repent, if they truly repent so Welby was right on that.

    He only has a year or 2 left as Archbishop of anyway, the Archbishop of York Stephen Cottrell, who will stand in for Welby and deliver the sermon at the Jubilee Service on Friday, probably favourite to succeed him
    I would be surprised. Cottrell is only three years younger than Welby and Welby clearly intends to stay until 70. In fact there's a reasonable chance Cottrell will retire first.

    I would suggest a more likely candidate is Graham Usher, Bishop of Norwich, but that presupposes the next Archbishop will be (a) male and (b) English, both of which are likely but not certain.
    It's perfectly possible that like Justin - the next Archbishop isn't even a Bishop yet
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    Dura_Ace said:

    I've just done one of those consumer surveys that the FT does to give you free access to one of their articles.

    Q1. Which of these branches of the US military have you heard of (Navy, Army, Space Force, Marines)?

    Q2. Which of these branches would you consider buying?

    Q3. Which of these branches would you buy in the next 3 months?

    I mean, I knew things were bad, but...

    :lol:

    They are also missing another four uniformed services.
    I get the USAF, and Coastguard, but the others are ...? Border Patrol?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,013
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    Rees-Mogg invented his own constitutional convention that a leader who survives a VONC, but not by enough, should resign anyway, when he was whinging about May winning hers.

    I would love to see how he reverses position if Boris wins such a vote.

    7. Is definitely possible. The rule is meant to prevent challenges but doesnt mean people magically become happy.
    Didn't bother Labour when in 2010 they said a PM was a PM was a PM until he resigned, and then in 2015 briefed a PM who didn't win outright should resign at once.

    Interestingly on both occasions they were completely wrong, and both times it militated against their own best interests.
    They were right in 2010 and wrong in 2015. Regardless of elections we always have ministers including the PM. The Queen asks someone to form a government who then needs to be supported by the Commons.

    So in 2010 it was unclear after the election whether any leader could command confidence in the Commons. So for 5 days we waited for negotiations. During that time all ministers remain in place until the government resigns.

    The situation in 2015 was very different. It seemed likely that Cameron would be able to have the confidence of the house if the Tories were at least the largest party. And if Labour were the largest party but again no majority it would be incumbent on the government to stay in office until a viable replacement could be appointed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Farooq said:

    I see a lot of people making assertions about healthcare systems being good or bad, and very little in the way of evidence.
    I sometimes wonder whether half you people think something just because others are saying it.

    Alternatively not every comment someone makes on a blog will be accompanied by reams of footnotes and evidence like it's a submission to an academic journal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002

    Why is Twitter full of speculation about Carrie and Boris Johnson divorcing? Have I missed something? After a quick search I cannot see anything in the establishment media.

    Supposedly she has dumped him and shacked up with x, with yet another Johnson superinjunction to shut everyone up. Like the last one of those, the press can't talk about what's disappeared into the black hole, but can talk about the ooh what a massive black hole / I wonder where Carrie is juxtaposition.

    No idea whether its true or not. I think the last time she was exhibited in public was the PM physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.
    That had ‘Marriage Made in Hell’ right from the second Westminster Cathedral imprudently opened their door to the twice-divorced Oaf and his latest mug. The whole thing was just tacky beyond belief. If there is a Good Boris in there, deep inside the repulsive, corpulent Bad Boris, it must be suffering an agonising, tortuous demise. I hope he finds redemption once he’s out of the public eye. There is hope for every soul… if they truly repent.

    - “… physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.”

    Presumably she voted Lib Dem.
    I want Boris gone as much as anyone, but there is something distasteful about commenting on a relationship that is simply based on a twitter rumour which by the way has no evidence to support the smears and is just done through pure hatred

    I understand Boris and Carrie held the christening of their youngster last week and I for one do not wish their relationship to be affected by false and malicious gossip

    Concentrate on Boris and ensuring the end to his premiership
    What is the basis for you being so certain that the story is false?
    It is not backed up by evidence nor in the mainstream media and frankly it is malicious gossip which some like yourself seem to get a kick out of commenting on

    Boris's resignation is a far more important issue
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Carnyx said:

    Why is Twitter full of speculation about Carrie and Boris Johnson divorcing? Have I missed something? After a quick search I cannot see anything in the establishment media.

    Supposedly she has dumped him and shacked up with x, with yet another Johnson superinjunction to shut everyone up. Like the last one of those, the press can't talk about what's disappeared into the black hole, but can talk about the ooh what a massive black hole / I wonder where Carrie is juxtaposition.

    No idea whether its true or not. I think the last time she was exhibited in public was the PM physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.
    That had ‘Marriage Made in Hell’ right from the second Westminster Cathedral imprudently opened their door to the twice-divorced Oaf and his latest mug. The whole thing was just tacky beyond belief. If there is a Good Boris in there, deep inside the repulsive, corpulent Bad Boris, it must be suffering an agonising, tortuous demise. I hope he finds redemption once he’s out of the public eye. There is hope for every soul… if they truly repent.

    - “… physically dragging her down the street to vote last month.”

    Presumably she voted Lib Dem.
    I want Boris gone as much as anyone, but there is something distasteful about commenting on a relationship that is simply based on a twitter rumour which by the way has no evidence to support the smears and is just done through pure hatred

    I understand Boris and Carrie held the christening of their youngster last week and I for one do not wish their relationship to be affected by false and malicious gossip

    Concentrate on Boris and ensuring the end to his premiership
    You are, I think, far too kind. I think it is entirely legitimate for us to want to know if Mr J's attention is likely to be off his duties. I imagine it would be outrageous, hypothetically, if he were to consider the mere possibility of taking out a superinjunction which had the primary or secondary effect of concealing that.
    When has Johnson's attention ever been on his duties, other than when his lawyer is using it as an excuse to avoid FPN?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    Rees-Mogg invented his own constitutional convention that a leader who survives a VONC, but not by enough, should resign anyway, when he was whinging about May winning hers.

    I would love to see how he reverses position if Boris wins such a vote.

    7. Is definitely possible. The rule is meant to prevent challenges but doesnt mean people magically become happy.
    Didn't bother Labour when in 2010 they said a PM was a PM was a PM until he resigned, and then in 2015 briefed a PM who didn't win outright should resign at once.

    Interestingly on both occasions they were completely wrong, and both times it militated against their own best interests.
    They were right in 2010 and wrong in 2015. Regardless of elections we always have ministers including the PM. The Queen asks someone to form a government who then needs to be supported by the Commons.

    So in 2010 it was unclear after the election whether any leader could command confidence in the Commons. So for 5 days we waited for negotiations. During that time all ministers remain in place until the government resigns.

    The situation in 2015 was very different. It seemed likely that Cameron would be able to have the confidence of the house if the Tories were at least the largest party. And if Labour were the largest party but again no majority it would be incumbent on the government to stay in office until a viable replacement could be appointed.
    Brown was in the right to remain until his replacement was clear. Nothing wrong with attempting to see if he could stay on even. When he couldn't he went.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    No way the members vote for the guy who put the pandemic preparedness plan in the circular filing cabinet under his desk.

    He had a good pandemic though. Very sensible and a safe pair of hands attitude.

    He's also outside the Cabinet and I think the stench of partygate, cronyism and corruption would be very hard for anyone in Johnson's team to shake off.

    I'll put this slightly more firmly: living out in the Middle East as you do I really don't think you have your finger on the pulse of this country.
    I think the idea people living within a country are inherently more likely to have their finger on the pulse of that country than those without is not borne out by the reality of most within it not having a clue. Especially if the persons living elsewhere consume and are immersed in, say, UK media. Or they might gain a better perspective with some distance, it could be argued.

    I've always felt the 'but you live in the USA/Sweden/Tokyo/Switzerland/Dubai/etc' line is an unnecessary retort.
    Do Channel Islands tax exiles count?
    To everyone but HMRC, yes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    Rees-Mogg invented his own constitutional convention that a leader who survives a VONC, but not by enough, should resign anyway, when he was whinging about May winning hers.

    I would love to see how he reverses position if Boris wins such a vote.

    7. Is definitely possible. The rule is meant to prevent challenges but doesnt mean people magically become happy.
    Didn't bother Labour when in 2010 they said a PM was a PM was a PM until he resigned, and then in 2015 briefed a PM who didn't win outright should resign at once.

    Interestingly on both occasions they were completely wrong, and both times it militated against their own best interests.
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    So the comedy scenario is thus:
    1. Graham Brady books a big room in parliament early next week and announces a contest
    2. Consternation and uproar from the Tories. The loon wing angrily attack their traitor colleagues, the moral / nervous ones attack back
    3. Johnson scrapes over the line. Badly damaged, with ongoing attacks by the moral vs the vacuous.
    4. We really now must move on says team clown
    5. "Oh hell no" says the public, with a fresh poll plunge for the Tories
    6. Tories get smashed in both Wakefield and Devon.
    7. Despite the "he's safe for 12 months" rule the slide into the mire only accelerates.
    8. He resigns, but instead of a swift contest and a sane leader paraded at conference we have a fractious battle with the remaining loons desperate to hold onto control of the party.
    9. Instead Conference is a contest where the membership listen to "vote for me" speeches from favoured candidates. A choice of Patel or Baker becomes their option...

    Rees-Mogg invented his own constitutional convention that a leader who survives a VONC, but not by enough, should resign anyway, when he was whinging about May winning hers.

    I would love to see how he reverses position if Boris wins such a vote.

    7. Is definitely possible. The rule is meant to prevent challenges but doesnt mean people magically become happy.
    Didn't bother Labour when in 2010 they said a PM was a PM was a PM until he resigned, and then in 2015 briefed a PM who didn't win outright should resign at once.

    Interestingly on both occasions they were completely wrong, and both times it militated against their own best interests.
    I know it would bother him to shamelessly argue a contrary position, but itd be amusing to see a stupid man attempt it and think he's clever enough to be persuasive.
    Would not bother him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Deputy PM Dominic Raab on Sky News this morning on prospect of no-confidence vote:

    "The Westminster bubble whips this stuff up... I doubt it is that high [40] in terms of letters"

    "The PM has dealt with all of those issues"

    "Vast majority of MPs respect and recognise that"

    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1531900694122446853

    Elections guru Lord Hayward tells @SkyNews he knows of at least one Tory MP who has put a letter in and not said it publicly. He thinks letters will cross the threshold.
    https://twitter.com/SophiaSleigh/status/1531903197182406658


    Lord Geidt in danger of becoming the new Douglas Ross of politics. Is his support for the PM on or off? Or on standby? Like a vampire device. https://twitter.com/samfr/status/1531899478952886273
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,763

    tlg86 said:

    FIFA World Cup Play-Off Semi-Final
    Hampden Park
    7:45 kick off this evening

    Scotland 2.42
    Ukraine 3.6

    Great of the Scottish government to slash train services so that people living as far away Edinburgh can't get the train home afterwards. Drivers interviewed up here in the Press and Journal say the cuts are absurd and have left them "twiddling their thumbs" available for driving with no trains to drive...
    Nationalise it. Oh wait...
    As I kept pointing out to the "just nationalise it" wing of the Labour party, that isn't the solution when you aren't letting the industry run itself. Ministers and civil servants have no idea how to run a railway, and when they start to micromanage it all turns into an expensive mess.

    The solution is as demonstrated by most European governments. A StateCo. Owned by the state but run commercially. The state removes the need to make profit and enables very cheap borrowing for investment and can subsidise as heavily as it wants to. But does not dictate the seat spacing and lack of tray tables on the Thameslink fleet (other examples of government meddling can be found)
    We tried that. The Treasury interfered.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:



    The tickets on display in the image are clearly fakes.

    A tip. When you make a mistake, as I did about the invasion, it's often best just to admit it and back away from the topic.
    Are you saying those tickets are real?
    You came in very, very, strongly opinionated from the get-go on Saturday evening with some remarks about Liverpool fans that I think you should have retracted.

    My opinion is that you should drop it and wait for the full proper and professionally conducted enquiry. Then by all means pitch your opinion.

    There's far too much of this on the internet, including on here: people spouting opinions when they are not experts and don't have full command of the facts.

    Peace.

    x
    Sorry but no ... we shouldn't be afraid to call out the knobheads.
    The worst thing about the internet is precisely this.

    Someone failing to recognise or admit their own error, becoming more entrenched and opinionated.

    Sorry really is the hardest word.

    Have a good day everyone.

    xx
    I'm not the one that turned up to a football match with a fake ticket.
    Why are you blaming the victims of a crime and not the criminal who sold fraudulent tickets?
    Unless they bought those fake tickets from Liverpool or UEFA, they are not victims, they are perpetrators.
    Can one be prosecuted for presenting a fraudulent ticket to gain entry to an event? It happened to me once, in the late 80s. Turned up at the Royal Albert Hall to see Eric Clapton as a birthday treat, and it turned out the tickets my girlfriend had bought were fake. Luckily she had deep enough pockets to just buy a couple of genuine ones on the door. (Seems a bit odd in retrospect that it wasn’t sold out. The place was packed once we were inside.)
    To be honest, it's not really about criminal behaviour. It's about morals. Given the history of the club - and a lot of journalists like Conn are playing on it - you'd think Liverpool fans would only buy off from official sources (i.e. the club or UEFA).
    Come on @tlg86, you know pointing this lot out is going to be about as popular as highlighting breaches of the Geneva convention by Kyiv aligned forces.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,620
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    As a victim of a paedophile rapist it is not the place of the Archbishop of Canterbury to forgive. Only victims could possibly be in a position to do that.

    It was crass of Welby but he was led into the trap by Tom Bradby.

    Sorry to hear about your past experience. However it is a core Christian message to forgive those who repent, if they truly repent so Welby was right on that.

    He only has a year or 2 left as Archbishop of anyway, the Archbishop of York Stephen Cottrell, who will stand in for Welby and deliver the sermon at the Jubilee Service on Friday, probably favourite to succeed him
    I would be surprised. Cottrell is only three years younger than Welby and Welby clearly intends to stay until 70. In fact there's a reasonable chance Cottrell will retire first.

    I would suggest a more likely candidate is Graham Usher, Bishop of Norwich, but that presupposes the next Archbishop will be (a) male and (b) English, both of which are likely but not certain.
    The CoE establishment has a bit of a problem. They want a nice liberal, without too much of that bothersome sky fairy stuff.

    The problem is that that means a lot of elderly white men.

    The other problem is that the area of growth in the CoE is abroad. At home it is shrinking. Africa now has a majority of the active church goers. Unfortunately, they tend to be a bit illiberal, compared to Welby, say. And also way to enthusiastic about sky fairies.
This discussion has been closed.