So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Did you learn that line in the Kremlin?
If he did then they need to sharpen up their use of English, especially if they want to conquer the world.
That's the trouble with these oligarchs. They're not very good at what they do. Hitler was a great example of a really crap general. A complete buffoon militarily, like Putin.
I may have got the invasion completely wrong but I did say it was based on them not having much chance of winning. And so it has come to pass. A rubbish army with poor equipment led by a lunatic who doesn't know what he's doing.
Hitler made one really big call correctly that most generals would have got wrong - the stand fast in 1941 when the USSR counter attacked at Moscow. Almost certainly avoided a catastrophe for the German army. Happily for the rest of the world he then repeated this tactic for the next 4 years with disastrous consequences. For instance in Normandy it allowed the panzer divisions to be chewed up in range of the naval guns, rather than retreating inland to allow for a more strategic counter offensive.
Yes indeed.
Stalingrad for example was most certainly not an example of his finest hour. The annihilation of the German Sixth Army probably turned the entire war.
Prior to that, opening up two fronts was idiocy and there were a series of other spectacular blunders, including Dunkirk of course.
Worth mentioning that judging the likelihood of a war breaking out by the objective probability of winning is a bad methodology - the side starting a war, since the industrial revolution, has ended up losing, more often than not.
Not taking your word on this. Naming who "started" a war is itself often contested. Sounds very dubious indeed.
There are a number of possible explanations for the observation.
1. The victor writes the story of the war, and is much more likely to do so in a way that is flattering to them - as the innocent victim of unprovoked aggression, rather than as a bloodthirsty aggressor.
2. Democracies are generally better at waging war, because they are more productive, meritocratic, inventive and cohesive and less corrupt societies, but they are less likely to start wars, because of the costs that they impose.
3. Everyone prefers to get what they can without a war, and so a country generally only fights a war when the other side in a dispute refuses to accommodate demands made. This generally indicates a willingness to fight, and the defenders generally have the advantage. Despite what might often be said about fighting to the death, generally speaking most people do not fight lost causes, and aggressors tend to misjudge the extent to which resistance to them would be a lost cause.
Tiverton and Honiton Conservatives pick Helen Hurford as their candidate for the by election. A local, she was born in Tiverton and has been a headteacher and run a Honiton based business
Was the academy primary school where she was Head for a couple of years the Honiton based business, young HY?
She's entitled to her 15mins of fame. But come the 24th June it's back to the day job me thinks.
I think she has an excellent chance of holding it. The Tories got 60% of the vote in Tiverton and Honiton in 2019, it was a Leave area and even on current polls the Conservatives would hold it comfortably.
As a local woman who has worked in the area she is the ideal candidate to hold the seat too given the circumstances of the by election from the LDs.
So while Labour should still gain Wakefield which had a much smaller Tory majority in 2019, I think Tiverton and Honiton will now be a narrow Conservative hold
Yes, I have a bet on the Tories in T+H, as I just think it too high of hill for the LDs. I think Labour will win Wakefield, which is probably the more impirtant seat for political readers of tea leaves and entrails. The odds are pretty unattractive though.
Western resolve set to be tested as key US and EU figures want Ukraine to cede territory to Russia and make peace
The inevitable outcome may be a compromise preserving Ukrainian sovereignty and ceding territory to Russia, a New York Times editorial said
ByRoland Oliphant, SENIOR FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT22 May 2022 • 8:03pm
It’s unfortunately the only way the war ends . Russia is not going to give up its land bridge to Crimea and Ukraine can at least save the majority of the country and start re-building .
Exactly compromises have to be made many in the west now realise this and I think sense will start to prevail Remember when Russia invaded czechoslovakia in 1968 we did nothing then
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Ask the democratically elected Ukrainian government - it’s their sacrifice, by their people.
It seems quaint to think that it's still their choice. The US has $40bn of aid on order, I don't see Uncle Joe being very happy to ask for a refund.
So, the Ukrainian people are being forced to resist the invader, because they don't want to embarrass Joe Biden.
Well, I guess it's a view.
How much agency do you suppose the people really have? Any civilian or group of civilians objecting to the war would be on a very sticky wicket, surely you see that? The leader of the pro-Russian opposition party was imprisoned as a POW.
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Ask the democratically elected Ukrainian government - it’s their sacrifice, by their people.
It seems quaint to think that it's still their choice. The US has $40bn of aid on order, I don't see Uncle Joe being very happy to ask for a refund.
So, the Ukrainian people are being forced to resist the invader, because they don't want to embarrass Joe Biden.
Well, I guess it's a view.
How much agency do you suppose the people really have? Any civilian or group of civilians objecting to the war would be on a very sticky wicket, surely you see that? The leader of the pro-Russian opposition party was imprisoned as a POW.
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Did you learn that line in the Kremlin?
If he did then they need to sharpen up their use of English, especially if they want to conquer the world.
That's the trouble with these oligarchs. They're not very good at what they do. Hitler was a great example of a really crap general. A complete buffoon militarily, like Putin.
I may have got the invasion completely wrong but I did say it was based on them not having much chance of winning. And so it has come to pass. A rubbish army with poor equipment led by a lunatic who doesn't know what he's doing.
Hitler made one really big call correctly that most generals would have got wrong - the stand fast in 1941 when the USSR counter attacked at Moscow. Almost certainly avoided a catastrophe for the German army. Happily for the rest of the world he then repeated this tactic for the next 4 years with disastrous consequences. For instance in Normandy it allowed the panzer divisions to be chewed up in range of the naval guns, rather than retreating inland to allow for a more strategic counter offensive.
Yes indeed.
Stalingrad for example was most certainly not an example of his finest hour. The annihilation of the German Sixth Army probably turned the entire war.
Prior to that, opening up two fronts was idiocy and there were a series of other spectacular blunders, including Dunkirk of course.
Worth mentioning that judging the likelihood of a war breaking out by the objective probability of winning is a bad methodology - the side starting a war, since the industrial revolution, has ended up losing, more often than not.
Not taking your word on this. Naming who "started" a war is itself often contested. Sounds very dubious indeed.
Paraguay - 1870 France -1870 Germany/Austria Hungary - 1914 Japan - 1937/1941 Germany - 1939
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
It isn't us sacrificing them. They are at the flashpoint of this confrontation through no fault of theirs, or ours for that matter. Their choice, or not, to fight on and sacrifice is theirs to make.
I don't know why people still try out the 'people dying is bad, therefore Ukraine should give up/people should stop supporting them' dodge after all this time. Trying to present it as deriving from compassion doesn't disguise that that is the argument being made, as a logical follow on from the attempt to flip responsibility for any deaths onto, say, us. The flipping is the giveaway about what argument is actually being made, even when it is not outright stated.
The 'compassion' line tries to make the idea of supporting Ukrainians in their resistance to be a complex issue ('but but, it means some people will die'), but in fact it is very simple indeed. Some things are. If they are willing to keep fighting, there are zero difficult issues around the morality of that. Some might want to take a hard nosed realpolitik view about the costs to ourselves, but that is not the position of the 'compassionate' crowd.
To be fair it's not the ukrainian people making the choice is it It's zelensky in conjunction with the US govt flooding arms into the country ten of thousands dead in mariupol and the city destroyed did the ukrainian people want that
To state the obvious, it wasn't Ukraine that flattened Mariopol, nor Poltava, nor Sievero-Donetsk.
If Russia really cared for these places it wouldn't level them with artillery and exterminate or deport their citizens to Siberia.
So the DM are now going after Sue Gray . It’s deeply troubling that much of the UKs press wouldn’t look out of place in North Korea with the vomit inducing levels of sycophancy towards Johnson our Dear Leader !
I also think you are hearing the sound of compromise as Russia is starting to win in the donbass
That is a pro Russia narrative that Russia wants spread, because Russia would like to freeze their dismal gains soon or even right now, before America starts supplying ever more advanced arms to Ukraine in quantities that will allow Ukraine to push Russia back. I've no doubt a lot of Quislings will be making the same point repeatedly over the next few months. But the Ukrainian government is quite clear that ceding territory for peace, or deferred war, is a non-starter.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Tiverton and Honiton Conservatives pick Helen Hurford as their candidate for the by election. A local, she was born in Tiverton and has been a headteacher and run a Honiton based business
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Ask the democratically elected Ukrainian government - it’s their sacrifice, by their people.
It seems quaint to think that it's still their choice. The US has $40bn of aid on order, I don't see Uncle Joe being very happy to ask for a refund.
So, the Ukrainian people are being forced to resist the invader, because they don't want to embarrass Joe Biden.
Well, I guess it's a view.
How much agency do you suppose the people really have? Any civilian or group of civilians objecting to the war would be on a very sticky wicket, surely you see that? The leader of the pro-Russian opposition party was imprisoned as a POW.
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
It really is sad how you have become such an apologist for Russian aggression. You seem to have found a fellow traveller in GaryL whose whole raison d'etre on here seems to be to undermine the Ukrainian cause.
Tiverton and Honiton Conservatives pick Helen Hurford as their candidate for the by election. A local, she was born in Tiverton and has been a headteacher and run a Honiton based business
Was the academy primary school where she was Head for a couple of years the Honiton based business, young HY?
She's entitled to her 15mins of fame. But come the 24th June it's back to the day job me thinks.
I think she has an excellent chance of holding it. The Tories got 60% of the vote in Tiverton and Honiton in 2019, it was a Leave area and even on current polls the Conservatives would hold it comfortably.
As a local woman who has worked in the area she is the ideal candidate to hold the seat too given the circumstances of the by election from the LDs.
So while Labour should still gain Wakefield which had a much smaller Tory majority in 2019, I think Tiverton and Honiton will now be a narrow Conservative hold
So, do you think that Bill Hill’s 9/4 for the Conservatives is worth a punt?
Yes, the candidate is far better than the Tory candidate in North Shropshire who was a man from Birmingham with no real local connections and added to the big Tory majority in 2019 there that should be enough.
Indeed, given the LD candidate is a male army officer and the Tory candidate is now a local woman teacher, if anything the Tory candidate looks more like a LD candidate and the LD candidate more like a classic Tory candidate
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
Tiverton and Honiton Conservatives pick Helen Hurford as their candidate for the by election. A local, she was born in Tiverton and has been a headteacher and run a Honiton based business
Was the academy primary school where she was Head for a couple of years the Honiton based business, young HY?
She's entitled to her 15mins of fame. But come the 24th June it's back to the day job me thinks.
I think she has an excellent chance of holding it. The Tories got 60% of the vote in Tiverton and Honiton in 2019, it was a Leave area and even on current polls the Conservatives would hold it comfortably.
As a local woman who has worked in the area she is the ideal candidate to hold the seat too given the circumstances of the by election from the LDs.
So while Labour should still gain Wakefield which had a much smaller Tory majority in 2019, I think Tiverton and Honiton will now be a narrow Conservative hold
So, do you think that Bill Hill’s 9/4 for the Conservatives is worth a punt?
Yes, the candidate is far better than the Tory candidate in North Shropshire who was a man from Birmingham with no real local connections and added to the big Tory majority in 2019 there that should be enough
From what little I have read she seems a good selection.
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
It isn't us sacrificing them. They are at the flashpoint of this confrontation through no fault of theirs, or ours for that matter. Their choice, or not, to fight on and sacrifice is theirs to make.
I don't know why people still try out the 'people dying is bad, therefore Ukraine should give up/people should stop supporting them' dodge after all this time. Trying to present it as deriving from compassion doesn't disguise that that is the argument being made, as a logical follow on from the attempt to flip responsibility for any deaths onto, say, us. The flipping is the giveaway about what argument is actually being made, even when it is not outright stated.
The 'compassion' line tries to make the idea of supporting Ukrainians in their resistance to be a complex issue ('but but, it means some people will die'), but in fact it is very simple indeed. Some things are. If they are willing to keep fighting, there are zero difficult issues around the morality of that. Some might want to take a hard nosed realpolitik view about the costs to ourselves, but that is not the position of the 'compassionate' crowd.
To be fair it's not the ukrainian people making the choice is it It's zelensky in conjunction with the US govt flooding arms into the country ten of thousands dead in mariupol and the city destroyed did the ukrainian people want that
To state the obvious, it wasn't Ukraine that flattened Mariopol, nor Poltava, nor Sievero-Donetsk.
If Russia really cared for these places it wouldn't level them with artillery and exterminate or deport their citizens to Siberia.
Russian Kulture - the Kremlin version of it, anyway.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
So close, but what an amazing season anyway. Credit to Man City, deserved Champions, though Liverpool would have deserved it too, any club that gets over 90 points ought to be Champions.
The Premier League is incredible, isn't it? Well done City.
"A new dawn has broken, but we are still bloody counting!"
I think the left is making a mistake with PR. Before the referendum UKIP + Tories were often >52%. That would mean a much further right government.
As a Lefty, I would have no problem with that. If the Tory/UKIP vote was 50% plus then they should be the government. I have a problem with majorities bulldozing their measures through against the wishes of 2 in 3 voters. And yes. That includes 2005. The most egregious of the lot.
But, it means Brexit would probably have happened regardless. I don't think you can 'game' any political point of view out of the system by making elections more proportional.
You can by gerrymandering.
But Brexit happens because it had the support of 50%+. That's democracy. I may think it's idiocy. But I can take it cos I'm in a minority. The problem with FPTP is I have to put up with stuff I don't like when I'm in the majority. As indeed may you.
Isn't that the problem with any voting system. It is dishonest to suggest that most people in a constituency get the MP they voted for under PR any more than under FPTP. What they get is the MP they least object to and personally I don't think that is much better. Coalition Government is a coalition of politicians and parties, not a coalition of voters and again most voters will still not get the Government they want under PR any more than under FPTP.
So close, but what an amazing season anyway. Credit to Man City, deserved Champions, though Liverpool would have deserved it too, any club that gets over 90 points ought to be Champions.
The Premier League is incredible, isn't it? Well done City.
"A new dawn has broken, but we are still bloody counting!"
I think the left is making a mistake with PR. Before the referendum UKIP + Tories were often >52%. That would mean a much further right government.
As a Lefty, I would have no problem with that. If the Tory/UKIP vote was 50% plus then they should be the government. I have a problem with majorities bulldozing their measures through against the wishes of 2 in 3 voters. And yes. That includes 2005. The most egregious of the lot.
Yes. If we'd had PR, and Blair had been turfed out of office after GE2005, I think that would have been pretty good for British politics following Iraq.
Instead FPTP kept Blair in place.
I think STV/PR can either disrupt a cosy consensus or the tyranny of a majority, as it allows new views/opinions to be reflected much earlier; however, it's perfectly possible for the political establishment to try and "lock" fringe parties out of power for a long time, if ultimately to their chagrin.
The Swedish Democrats are one such example, as are Sinn Fein in Eire.
Most of the time the refusal of mainstream parties to deal with a party in this sort of situation, like Sinn Fein say, is because it would be unpopular with their voters for them to do so.
Suppose there's a SF/FF coalition after the next Irish general election. The result is most likely to be the end of FF.
I think the main point is that it's easier for voters to get what they want with STV/PR, because voters can vote honestly for what they want, and that has a direct influence on the public debate. With FPTP people's true political opinions are somewhat obscured by tactical voting considerations - so we really don't know what the true level of support for the Liberal Democrats is, and the Remain-supporting establishment was surprised by the strength of support for Leave.
This will only lead to an endless nirvana for progressive politics when progressive politics gets better at winning the public debate. But I do think the public debate should be better with STV/PR, because there's a chance of it escaping from a series of false dichotomies.
"Our regime is founded on two rival pictures of the human subject. The Lockean one regards us as rational, self-governing creatures. It locates reason in a common human endowment — common sense, more or less — and underwrites a basically democratic or majoritarian form of politics. There are no secrets to governing. The second, rival picture insists we are irrationally proud, and in need of being governed. This Hobbesian picture is more hortatory than the first; it needs us to think of ourselves as vulnerable, so the state can play the role of saving us. It underwrites a technocratic, progressive form of politics.
The Lockean assumption has been quietly put to bed over the last 30 years, and we have fully embraced the Hobbesian alternative.
The Nineties saw the rise of new currents in the social sciences that emphasise the cognitive incompetence of human beings, deposing the “rational actor” model of human behaviour. This gave us nudge theory , a way to alter people’s behaviour without having to persuade them of anything. It would be hard to overstate the degree to which this approach has been institutionalised, on both sides of the Atlantic. The innovation achieved here is in the way government conceives its subjects: not as citizens whose considered consent must be secured, but as particles to be steered through a science of behaviour management that relies on our pre-reflective cognitive biases."
It is the greatest triumph of an underdog since David slew Goliath: Ukraine's defeat of Russia at Kyiv and Kharkiv have revealed Russia as a paper tiger, the collapse of Mr Putin's army is inevitable and Ukraine can win the war if only the Western alliance holds its nerve.
Or is that nothing but a fantasy, out of touch with the cold realities of the balance of power, Russia's nuclear status and its battlefield successes on the southern front?
Isn't the inevitable outcome of the war a grotty compromise that preserves Ukrainian sovereignty, but cedes Russia some territory? And if so, shouldn't the West push Kyiv to accept that reality before more lives are lost?
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
I'm confident the West can afford to arm Ukraine to fight Russia indefinitely. Russia's problems are only beginning.
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Ask the democratically elected Ukrainian government - it’s their sacrifice, by their people.
It seems quaint to think that it's still their choice. The US has $40bn of aid on order, I don't see Uncle Joe being very happy to ask for a refund.
So, the Ukrainian people are being forced to resist the invader, because they don't want to embarrass Joe Biden.
Well, I guess it's a view.
How much agency do you suppose the people really have? Any civilian or group of civilians objecting to the war would be on a very sticky wicket, surely you see that? The leader of the pro-Russian opposition party was imprisoned as a POW.
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
It really is sad how you have become such an apologist for Russian aggression. You seem to have found a fellow traveller in GaryL whose whole raison d'etre on here seems to be to undermine the Ukrainian cause.
I have not become anything, I've always been very skeptical of US foreign policy, and that's lead me to be more supportive of Russia's actions than I would otherwise be. At times, that's lead me to have egg on my face, believing Russian propaganda. I'd like to think I've learned my lesson there. However, propaganda goes two ways, and at the moment, we're fed quite a lot of it, and the lack of any alternative narrative gives a very unbalanced news diet. Personally, whether paid or unpaid, I don't see why we'd mind GaryL (or my good self) expressing that viewpoint on occasion. It's like everyone's worldview is so brittle that exposure to something in opposition could shatter it.
"Our regime is founded on two rival pictures of the human subject. The Lockean one regards us as rational, self-governing creatures. It locates reason in a common human endowment — common sense, more or less — and underwrites a basically democratic or majoritarian form of politics. There are no secrets to governing. The second, rival picture insists we are irrationally proud, and in need of being governed. This Hobbesian picture is more hortatory than the first; it needs us to think of ourselves as vulnerable, so the state can play the role of saving us. It underwrites a technocratic, progressive form of politics.
The Lockean assumption has been quietly put to bed over the last 30 years, and we have fully embraced the Hobbesian alternative.
The Nineties saw the rise of new currents in the social sciences that emphasise the cognitive incompetence of human beings, deposing the “rational actor” model of human behaviour. This gave us nudge theory , a way to alter people’s behaviour without having to persuade them of anything. It would be hard to overstate the degree to which this approach has been institutionalised, on both sides of the Atlantic. The innovation achieved here is in the way government conceives its subjects: not as citizens whose considered consent must be secured, but as particles to be steered through a science of behaviour management that relies on our pre-reflective cognitive biases."
Governments have always tried to embrace the Hobbesian narrative. It doesn't make it any more right now than it did 30 years ago. In the end the Lockean model is the more accurate reflection of the human condition.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
I got as far as where it started to sneer at evidence-based medicine. Tell me, does the article go on to explain why illiberal policies are somehow the fault of liberalism, as opposed to politicians acting in illiberal ways, or does it continue to gaslight all the way through?
Sounds like a lot of passive-aggressive gobbledegook to me.
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Did you learn that line in the Kremlin?
If he did then they need to sharpen up their use of English, especially if they want to conquer the world.
That's the trouble with these oligarchs. They're not very good at what they do. Hitler was a great example of a really crap general. A complete buffoon militarily, like Putin.
I may have got the invasion completely wrong but I did say it was based on them not having much chance of winning. And so it has come to pass. A rubbish army with poor equipment led by a lunatic who doesn't know what he's doing.
Hitler made one really big call correctly that most generals would have got wrong - the stand fast in 1941 when the USSR counter attacked at Moscow. Almost certainly avoided a catastrophe for the German army. Happily for the rest of the world he then repeated this tactic for the next 4 years with disastrous consequences. For instance in Normandy it allowed the panzer divisions to be chewed up in range of the naval guns, rather than retreating inland to allow for a more strategic counter offensive.
Yes indeed.
Stalingrad for example was most certainly not an example of his finest hour. The annihilation of the German Sixth Army probably turned the entire war.
Prior to that, opening up two fronts was idiocy and there were a series of other spectacular blunders, including Dunkirk of course.
Worth mentioning that judging the likelihood of a war breaking out by the objective probability of winning is a bad methodology - the side starting a war, since the industrial revolution, has ended up losing, more often than not.
Not taking your word on this. Naming who "started" a war is itself often contested. Sounds very dubious indeed.
Paraguay - 1870 France -1870 Germany/Austria Hungary - 1914 Japan - 1937/1941 Germany - 1939
Just to stay with.
Let's take Germany as an example. Suppose they had won the war and defeated Britain (no US in the war). How would they have written the history of the war?
The history of the war would have had them coming to the defence of ethnic Germans in Poland who were under unprovoked aggression, and then defeating France and Britain who had attacked an innocent Germany. A different victor to the war, and yet the aggressor would still have lost. I mean, Britain did declare war on Germany, rather than vice versa.
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Ask the democratically elected Ukrainian government - it’s their sacrifice, by their people.
It seems quaint to think that it's still their choice. The US has $40bn of aid on order, I don't see Uncle Joe being very happy to ask for a refund.
So, the Ukrainian people are being forced to resist the invader, because they don't want to embarrass Joe Biden.
Well, I guess it's a view.
How much agency do you suppose the people really have? Any civilian or group of civilians objecting to the war would be on a very sticky wicket, surely you see that? The leader of the pro-Russian opposition party was imprisoned as a POW.
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
It really is sad how you have become such an apologist for Russian aggression. You seem to have found a fellow traveller in GaryL whose whole raison d'etre on here seems to be to undermine the Ukrainian cause.
I have not become anything, I've always been very skeptical of US foreign policy, and that's lead me to be more supportive of Russia's actions than I would otherwise be. At times, that's lead me to have egg on my face, believing Russian propaganda. I'd like to think I've learned my lesson there. However, propaganda goes two ways, and at the moment, we're fed quite a lot of it, and the lack of any alternative narrative gives a very unbalanced news diet. Personally, whether paid or unpaid, I don't see why we'd mind GaryL (or my good self) expressing that viewpoint on occasion. It's like everyone's worldview is so brittle that exposure to something in opposition could shatter it.
Exactly one sided debate is no good for anyone this is a forum full of well educated well off people who should enjoy robust debate
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
Nah, Russia is toast. Its the Russo-Japanese war revisited, with revolution to come. Oligarchs and their lapdogs should flee while they can.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Ask the democratically elected Ukrainian government - it’s their sacrifice, by their people.
It seems quaint to think that it's still their choice. The US has $40bn of aid on order, I don't see Uncle Joe being very happy to ask for a refund.
So, the Ukrainian people are being forced to resist the invader, because they don't want to embarrass Joe Biden.
Well, I guess it's a view.
How much agency do you suppose the people really have? Any civilian or group of civilians objecting to the war would be on a very sticky wicket, surely you see that? The leader of the pro-Russian opposition party was imprisoned as a POW.
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
It really is sad how you have become such an apologist for Russian aggression. You seem to have found a fellow traveller in GaryL whose whole raison d'etre on here seems to be to undermine the Ukrainian cause.
I have not become anything, I've always been very skeptical of US foreign policy, and that's lead me to be more supportive of Russia's actions than I would otherwise be. At times, that's lead me to have egg on my face, believing Russian propaganda. I'd like to think I've learned my lesson there. However, propaganda goes two ways, and at the moment, we're fed quite a lot of it, and the lack of any alternative narrative gives a very unbalanced news diet. Personally, whether paid or unpaid, I don't see why we'd mind GaryL (or my good self) expressing that viewpoint on occasion. It's like everyone's worldview is so brittle that exposure to something in opposition could shatter it.
We object because this site is supposed to be about rational, evidence based discussion, not lunatic propaganda pushed by an apologist for genocide.
If you truly can't see the difference between right and wrong on this particular issue then you are completely lost. I genuinely believe you are following the same line as those who excused or supported the Anschluss in 1938.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
Ceasefire tomorrow wouldn't stop the depression we're barrelling into (although it would probably save hundreds of thousands from starvation). Right now, there's too much money chasing not enough goods (food, fuel, computer components), exacerbating the inflation caused by mass money-printing during the pandemic. A ceasefire tomorrow wouldn't increase the supply of goods. Ukraine's coast is still occupied, so it can't export grain. The West will almost certainly retain its sanctions on Russia while it occupies Ukrainian territory, so the global oil and gas markets will still be disrupted. And the Azovstal plant, which produced a hefty chunk of the processed neon and helium used to manufacture circuitboards and other computer components globally, has been flattened, so there will almost certainly be continued shortages of these materials for years.
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Did you learn that line in the Kremlin?
If he did then they need to sharpen up their use of English, especially if they want to conquer the world.
That's the trouble with these oligarchs. They're not very good at what they do. Hitler was a great example of a really crap general. A complete buffoon militarily, like Putin.
I may have got the invasion completely wrong but I did say it was based on them not having much chance of winning. And so it has come to pass. A rubbish army with poor equipment led by a lunatic who doesn't know what he's doing.
Hitler made one really big call correctly that most generals would have got wrong - the stand fast in 1941 when the USSR counter attacked at Moscow. Almost certainly avoided a catastrophe for the German army. Happily for the rest of the world he then repeated this tactic for the next 4 years with disastrous consequences. For instance in Normandy it allowed the panzer divisions to be chewed up in range of the naval guns, rather than retreating inland to allow for a more strategic counter offensive.
Yes indeed.
Stalingrad for example was most certainly not an example of his finest hour. The annihilation of the German Sixth Army probably turned the entire war.
Prior to that, opening up two fronts was idiocy and there were a series of other spectacular blunders, including Dunkirk of course.
Worth mentioning that judging the likelihood of a war breaking out by the objective probability of winning is a bad methodology - the side starting a war, since the industrial revolution, has ended up losing, more often than not.
Not taking your word on this. Naming who "started" a war is itself often contested. Sounds very dubious indeed.
Paraguay - 1870 France -1870 Germany/Austria Hungary - 1914 Japan - 1937/1941 Germany - 1939
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
RT. The Kremlin's Twitter feed. George Galloway. ...
Don't forget, Derby's very own apologist:
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
Time for realpolitik guys not Marvel comic fantasies
How much Ukraine territory are you proposing to give to the fascist autocrat ? And how much next time he invades ?
Realpolitik is telling him to fuck off back to his own country.
The countries proposing a ‘deal’, with “security guarantees’ for Ukraine - France and Germany (with Italy in tow), are those who underwrote the last set of security guarantees. How did that work out ?
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
Thankfully idiots like him won't change what is happening. America is providing a huge amount of military aid, and when Ukraine starts receiving the kind of weapons that will tip the balance in their favour, rather than the stuff that was initially provided for a guerilla war, then the Russian military will see just how denuded they have been due to Communism and the kleptocracy that replaced it.
Time for realpolitik guys not Marvel comic fantasies
How much Ukraine territory are you proposing to give to the fascist autocrat ? And how much next time he invades ?
Realpolitik is telling him to fuck off back to his own country.
The countries proposing a ‘deal’, with “security guarantees’ for Ukraine - France and Germany (with Italy in tow), are those who underwrote the last set of security guarantees. How did that work out ?
Why didn't we supply arms to czechoslovakia when Russia invaded in 1968
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
Ceasefire tomorrow wouldn't stop the depression we're barrelling into (although it would probably save hundreds of thousands from starvation). Right now, there's too much money chasing not enough goods (food, fuel, computer components), exacerbating the inflation caused by mass money-printing during the pandemic. A ceasefire tomorrow wouldn't increase the supply of goods. Ukraine's coast is still occupied, so it can't export grain. The West will almost certainly retain its sanctions on Russia while it occupies Ukrainian territory, so the global oil and gas markets will still be disrupted. And the Azovstal plant, which produced a hefty chunk of the processed neon and helium used to manufacture circuitboards and other computer components globally, has been flattened, so there will almost certainly be continued shortages of these materials for years.
Quicker to rebuild if the economically useless Russians are kicked out. Leaving them in possession of stolen territory just guarantees it continues to be useless.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
Nah, Russia is toast. Its the Russo-Japanese war revisited, with revolution to come. Oligarchs and their lapdogs should flee while they can.
Not sure about revolution. Seems just as likely that Vlad will be moved to a hospital for 'treatment' for various 'illnesses' and another group will take over from within the silovik who will find a way out of the morass of Ukraine and concentrate on the home land and its economy and rebuilding a shattered military no longer able to police its own borders.
Time for realpolitik guys not Marvel comic fantasies
How much Ukraine territory are you proposing to give to the fascist autocrat ? And how much next time he invades ?
Realpolitik is telling him to fuck off back to his own country.
The countries proposing a ‘deal’, with “security guarantees’ for Ukraine - France and Germany (with Italy in tow), are those who underwrote the last set of security guarantees. How did that work out ?
Why didn't we supply arms to czechoslovakia when Russia invaded in 1968
Mini me Stalin in the Kremlin doesn’t get the same free pass. How about you answer my questions ?
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Ask the democratically elected Ukrainian government - it’s their sacrifice, by their people.
It seems quaint to think that it's still their choice. The US has $40bn of aid on order, I don't see Uncle Joe being very happy to ask for a refund.
So, the Ukrainian people are being forced to resist the invader, because they don't want to embarrass Joe Biden.
Well, I guess it's a view.
How much agency do you suppose the people really have? Any civilian or group of civilians objecting to the war would be on a very sticky wicket, surely you see that? The leader of the pro-Russian opposition party was imprisoned as a POW.
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
It really is sad how you have become such an apologist for Russian aggression. You seem to have found a fellow traveller in GaryL whose whole raison d'etre on here seems to be to undermine the Ukrainian cause.
I have not become anything, I've always been very skeptical of US foreign policy, and that's lead me to be more supportive of Russia's actions than I would otherwise be. At times, that's lead me to have egg on my face, believing Russian propaganda. I'd like to think I've learned my lesson there. However, propaganda goes two ways, and at the moment, we're fed quite a lot of it, and the lack of any alternative narrative gives a very unbalanced news diet. Personally, whether paid or unpaid, I don't see why we'd mind GaryL (or my good self) expressing that viewpoint on occasion. It's like everyone's worldview is so brittle that exposure to something in opposition could shatter it.
We object because this site is supposed to be about rational, evidence based discussion, not lunatic propaganda pushed by an apologist for genocide.
If you truly can't see the difference between right and wrong on this particular issue then you are completely lost. I genuinely believe you are following the same line as those who excused or supported the Anschluss in 1938.
You argue for 'rational evidence based discussion', but you follow with emotive rhetoric and references to the Nazis. The music is not matching the lyrics. I've stated that I oppose the invasion, but I don't feel the need to keep stating it to prove something, because I am a citizen of a third country, and I reserve the right to take a 'rational, evidence based' approach, and speak as I find.
In doing so, I have occasionally posted a news snippet (never from RT, always reputable Western sources) that suggested that atrocities emerging at times in this war were not wholly supported by the evidence. That has always been met by posts like yours above.
If a Political Betting forum where most are posting from the leafy shires has become so febrile, then how on earth (to return to my comment that sparked your rebuke) does the ordinary citizen of Ukraine register any kind of negative view on the fact that their country is envisaged as a permanent warzone?
That was the argument laid out in an editorial in the New York Times - sparking uproar in Kyiv amid growing fears about the resolve of elites in both the United States and Europe to see the conflict through.
The piece, attributed to the paper’s Editorial Board, argued that Russia is too strong for Ukraine to defeat decisively on the battlefield; that the realistic outcome of the war will involve territorial concessions from Ukraine; and that President Joe Biden should make this clear to Volodymyr Zelensky sooner rather than later - including by placing clear limits on US support for Kyiv.
I got as far as where it started to sneer at evidence-based medicine. Tell me, does the article go on to explain why illiberal policies are somehow the fault of liberalism, as opposed to politicians acting in illiberal ways, or does it continue to gaslight all the way through?
Always read the whole of an article before commenting on it.
Despite Ukraine’s stunning successes around Kyiv and Kharkiv, “a decisive military victory for Ukraine over Russia, in which Ukraine regains all the territory Russia has seized since 2014, is not a realistic goal,” the newspaper wrote.
Ultimately, it said: “It will be Ukrainian leaders who will have to make the painful territorial decisions that any compromise will demand.”
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
Thankfully idiots like him won't change what is happening. America is providing a huge amount of military aid, and when Ukraine starts receiving the kind of weapons that will tip the balance in their favour, rather than the stuff that was initially provided for a guerilla war, then the Russian military will see just how denuded they have been due to Communism and the kleptocracy that replaced it.
Yes, the new Ukranian tank formations should be ready for the counter-offensive shortly, and the attrition of Russian equipment at current rates will destroy Russian offensive power within months.
In terms of military advantage, NATO is doing very well. For a fairly modest expenditure, and by sending mothballed kit, NATO will have effectively disarmed its only major threat. Its a bargain for our defence budget.
I can see why Russian apologists want a ceasefire.. It is a "stop the count" moment where they know they have reached high tide, and ahead is only defeat.
If a Political Betting forum where most are posting from the leafy shires has become so febrile, then how on earth (to return to my comment that sparked your rebuke) does the ordinary citizen of Ukraine register any kind of negative view on the fact that their country is envisaged as a permanent warzone?
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
Nah, Russia is toast. Its the Russo-Japanese war revisited, with revolution to come. Oligarchs and their lapdogs should flee while they can.
Not sure about revolution. Seems just as likely that Vlad will be moved to a hospital for 'treatment' for various 'illnesses' and another group will take over from within the silovik who will find a way out of the morass of Ukraine and concentrate on the home land and its economy and rebuilding a shattered military no longer able to police its own borders.
Yes, the future of Russia is as an inward looking failed state.
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
Thankfully idiots like him won't change what is happening. America is providing a huge amount of military aid, and when Ukraine starts receiving the kind of weapons that will tip the balance in their favour, rather than the stuff that was initially provided for a guerilla war, then the Russian military will see just how denuded they have been due to Communism and the kleptocracy that replaced it.
Yes, the new Ukranian tank formations should be ready for the counter-offensive shortly, and the attrition of Russian equipment at current rates will destroy Russian offensive power within months.
In terms of military advantage, NATO is doing very well. For a fairly modest expenditure, and by sending mothballed kit, NATO will have effectively disarmed its only major threat. Its a bargain for our defence budget.
I can see why Russian apologists want a ceasefire.. It is a "stop the count" moment where they know they have reached high tide, and ahead is only defeat.
Clearly many western elites and the ny times disagree with you Foxy but after all I suppose doctors are always right
Time for realpolitik guys not Marvel comic fantasies
How much Ukraine territory are you proposing to give to the fascist autocrat ? And how much next time he invades ?
Realpolitik is telling him to fuck off back to his own country.
The countries proposing a ‘deal’, with “security guarantees’ for Ukraine - France and Germany (with Italy in tow), are those who underwrote the last set of security guarantees. How did that work out ?
Why didn't we supply arms to czechoslovakia when Russia invaded in 1968
What a devastating point - things have happened differently in the past, and geopolitics is not consistent, I had never noticed that before.
Thanfully, nations are not bound by precedent in international relations, the Russians cannot complain to the referee that we are helping oppose them now because we didn't in 1968.
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Ask the democratically elected Ukrainian government - it’s their sacrifice, by their people.
It seems quaint to think that it's still their choice. The US has $40bn of aid on order, I don't see Uncle Joe being very happy to ask for a refund.
So, the Ukrainian people are being forced to resist the invader, because they don't want to embarrass Joe Biden.
Well, I guess it's a view.
How much agency do you suppose the people really have? Any civilian or group of civilians objecting to the war would be on a very sticky wicket, surely you see that? The leader of the pro-Russian opposition party was imprisoned as a POW.
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
It really is sad how you have become such an apologist for Russian aggression. You seem to have found a fellow traveller in GaryL whose whole raison d'etre on here seems to be to undermine the Ukrainian cause.
I have not become anything, I've always been very skeptical of US foreign policy, and that's lead me to be more supportive of Russia's actions than I would otherwise be. At times, that's lead me to have egg on my face, believing Russian propaganda. I'd like to think I've learned my lesson there. However, propaganda goes two ways, and at the moment, we're fed quite a lot of it, and the lack of any alternative narrative gives a very unbalanced news diet. Personally, whether paid or unpaid, I don't see why we'd mind GaryL (or my good self) expressing that viewpoint on occasion. It's like everyone's worldview is so brittle that exposure to something in opposition could shatter it.
We object because this site is supposed to be about rational, evidence based discussion, not lunatic propaganda pushed by an apologist for genocide.
If you truly can't see the difference between right and wrong on this particular issue then you are completely lost. I genuinely believe you are following the same line as those who excused or supported the Anschluss in 1938.
You argue for 'rational evidence based discussion', but you follow with emotive rhetoric and references to the Nazis. The music is not matching the lyrics. I've stated that I oppose the invasion, but I don't feel the need to keep stating it to prove something, because I am a citizen of a third country, and I reserve the right to take a 'rational, evidence based' approach, and speak as I find.
In doing so, I have occasionally posted a news snippet (never from RT, always reputable Western sources) that suggested that atrocities emerging at times in this war were not wholly supported by the evidence. That has always been met by posts like yours above.
If a Political Betting forum where most are posting from the leafy shires has become so febrile, then how on earth (to return to my comment that sparked your rebuke) does the ordinary citizen of Ukraine register any kind of negative view on the fact that their country is envisaged as a permanent warzone?
Sadly virtue signalling around this was has become a thing for a certain type of middle class person
Western elites are clearly losing their resolve as Putin calculated they would
Not at all. Didn't you see the Polish PM in Kyiv today, promising whatever it takes?
You may not be aware that we have a free press, so newspapers here are not just government mouth pieces like in your country, so publish a variety of opinions.
Time for realpolitik guys not Marvel comic fantasies
How much Ukraine territory are you proposing to give to the fascist autocrat ? And how much next time he invades ?
Realpolitik is telling him to fuck off back to his own country.
The countries proposing a ‘deal’, with “security guarantees’ for Ukraine - France and Germany (with Italy in tow), are those who underwrote the last set of security guarantees. How did that work out ?
Why didn't we supply arms to czechoslovakia when Russia invaded in 1968
What a devastating point - things have happened differently in the past, and geopolitics is not consistent, I had never noticed that before.
Thanfully, nations are not bound by precedent in international relations, the Russians cannot complain to the referee that we are helping oppose them now because we didn't in 1968.
Maybe we had more sensible leaders then who knew the horrors of war
I would be the way, once this war is over and boundaries laid out, be strongly in favour of stuffing Ukraine with so much Western force that Russia can never decide to go rambling through it again. Weapons are better when they are in the cupboard unused.
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
Thankfully idiots like him won't change what is happening. America is providing a huge amount of military aid, and when Ukraine starts receiving the kind of weapons that will tip the balance in their favour, rather than the stuff that was initially provided for a guerilla war, then the Russian military will see just how denuded they have been due to Communism and the kleptocracy that replaced it.
Yes, the new Ukranian tank formations should be ready for the counter-offensive shortly, and the attrition of Russian equipment at current rates will destroy Russian offensive power within months.
In terms of military advantage, NATO is doing very well. For a fairly modest expenditure, and by sending mothballed kit, NATO will have effectively disarmed its only major threat. Its a bargain for our defence budget.
I can see why Russian apologists want a ceasefire.. It is a "stop the count" moment where they know they have reached high tide, and ahead is only defeat.
Clearly many western elites and the ny times disagree with you Foxy but after all I suppose doctors are always right
Some Western elites and Russian apologists will not always be in opposition. On the contrary, it is no grand revelation that some elites have been apologists from the start and remain so. Now, I wouldn't think everyone proposing a ceasefire is an apologist, I think there's a lot of misguided attempts at realpolitik which just takes a very casual attitude toward Ukrainian statehood but which may not be quite the same thing.
Besides which, I think you'll find Dr Foxy was proffering an opinion. There is no need for people to caveat every utterance so, I think we all know everyone is providing opinion, not gospel truths.
Despite Ukraine’s stunning successes around Kyiv and Kharkiv, “a decisive military victory for Ukraine over Russia, in which Ukraine regains all the territory Russia has seized since 2014, is not a realistic goal,” the newspaper wrote.
Ultimately, it said: “It will be Ukrainian leaders who will have to make the painful territorial decisions that any compromise will demand.”
This comment is exactly the same as one made on a different website, "wwnews.cryptomatters.net".
So it's obvious that Scottish football is far inferior to English. The question is, why?
It depends on what you want out of your football team. Trophies are clearly important to fans, but not the only reason to support. Teams up and down the Leagues get people paying to watch teams that never win anything, apart from ocassional division trophies, and often not many of those. It is intrinsic to the structure of both Leagues and Cups that most teams have virtually empty trophy cabinets.
It is possible to devise a system for a League with perpetual turnover at the top. The American Football Leagues do this via a draft system, so the bottom teams get preference for the players coming up from the College system. The equivalent here would be Norwich not being relegated and having both the money and right to buy in Haarland. Interesting maybe, but is it what we want?
That's what the Super League scummers wanted, but just for the Euroelite.
Ironically the nfl is much more socialist than premier league Honestly can't understand the mentality of a 60 year old man supporting a team like Carlisle united
What? I mean, big picture-wise the appropriate advice to any adult who claims to support a football team is Get a life, but how do age, sex and Carlisle come in to it?
Just an example of an older man pointlessly wasting their time on a lost cause
Like those sad tossers still backing Putin-style ethnonationalist kleptocracy. Western democracy is the future.
Why are you obsessed with putin,, does he threaten your manhood with his macho ways,,
More importantly he kills women and children and bombs hospitals
Everyone who values freedom and democracy should vow to rid the world of this monster
We all want that it is a question of how we arrive at this objective and how many innocent Ukrainians we are prepared to sacrifice
Ask the democratically elected Ukrainian government - it’s their sacrifice, by their people.
It seems quaint to think that it's still their choice. The US has $40bn of aid on order, I don't see Uncle Joe being very happy to ask for a refund.
So, the Ukrainian people are being forced to resist the invader, because they don't want to embarrass Joe Biden.
Well, I guess it's a view.
How much agency do you suppose the people really have? Any civilian or group of civilians objecting to the war would be on a very sticky wicket, surely you see that? The leader of the pro-Russian opposition party was imprisoned as a POW.
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
It really is sad how you have become such an apologist for Russian aggression. You seem to have found a fellow traveller in GaryL whose whole raison d'etre on here seems to be to undermine the Ukrainian cause.
I have not become anything, I've always been very skeptical of US foreign policy, and that's lead me to be more supportive of Russia's actions than I would otherwise be. At times, that's lead me to have egg on my face, believing Russian propaganda. I'd like to think I've learned my lesson there. However, propaganda goes two ways, and at the moment, we're fed quite a lot of it, and the lack of any alternative narrative gives a very unbalanced news diet. Personally, whether paid or unpaid, I don't see why we'd mind GaryL (or my good self) expressing that viewpoint on occasion. It's like everyone's worldview is so brittle that exposure to something in opposition could shatter it.
We object because this site is supposed to be about rational, evidence based discussion, not lunatic propaganda pushed by an apologist for genocide.
If you truly can't see the difference between right and wrong on this particular issue then you are completely lost. I genuinely believe you are following the same line as those who excused or supported the Anschluss in 1938.
You argue for 'rational evidence based discussion', but you follow with emotive rhetoric and references to the Nazis. The music is not matching the lyrics. I've stated that I oppose the invasion, but I don't feel the need to keep stating it to prove something, because I am a citizen of a third country, and I reserve the right to take a 'rational, evidence based' approach, and speak as I find.
In doing so, I have occasionally posted a news snippet (never from RT, always reputable Western sources) that suggested that atrocities emerging at times in this war were not wholly supported by the evidence. That has always been met by posts like yours above.
If a Political Betting forum where most are posting from the leafy shires has become so febrile, then how on earth (to return to my comment that sparked your rebuke) does the ordinary citizen of Ukraine register any kind of negative view on the fact that their country is envisaged as a permanent warzone?
Sadly virtue signalling around this was has become a thing for a certain type of middle class person
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
RT. The Kremlin's Twitter feed. George Galloway. ...
Don't forget, Derby's very own apologist:
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
I find his sort utterly repellant. They think they are so profound and that calling for peace makes them noble, as if no one had ever thought peace was a good idea until they suggested it, then ignore anything that might make actual agreement complicated or costly. It's moral posturing of the worst kind, at best, and in his case probably just cover for his true thoughts.
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
Thankfully idiots like him won't change what is happening. America is providing a huge amount of military aid, and when Ukraine starts receiving the kind of weapons that will tip the balance in their favour, rather than the stuff that was initially provided for a guerilla war, then the Russian military will see just how denuded they have been due to Communism and the kleptocracy that replaced it.
Yes, the new Ukranian tank formations should be ready for the counter-offensive shortly, and the attrition of Russian equipment at current rates will destroy Russian offensive power within months.
In terms of military advantage, NATO is doing very well. For a fairly modest expenditure, and by sending mothballed kit, NATO will have effectively disarmed its only major threat. Its a bargain for our defence budget.
I can see why Russian apologists want a ceasefire.. It is a "stop the count" moment where they know they have reached high tide, and ahead is only defeat.
Clearly many western elites and the ny times disagree with you Foxy but after all I suppose doctors are always right
Not the first Russian to have a problem with Doctors
Western elites are clearly losing their resolve as Putin calculated they would
Not at all. Didn't you see the Polish PM in Kyiv today, promising whatever it takes?
You may not be aware that we have a free press, so newspapers here are not just government mouth pieces like in your country, so publish a variety of opinions.
Poland is not the major player in this as I'm sure you know uk USA France and Germany are key countries I don't regard Poland as part of the western elite
The labour party can bugger off. Voting systems do not belong to politicians and they should get no say in what we select as a people. You want to change the voting system you ask the people. Politicians are servants not masters and shouldn't be able to impose their terms of employment on us
That's how I feel about changing the rules for how you can vote (by requiring ID). Do you agree?
I wouldnt necessarily be opposed to it. For lesser rule changes like that and for example changing the age you can vote what I would like in fact to see a regular independent review every 20 years or so by an independent council which proposes rule changes they think make sense then a referendum where all changes people could tick yes or no. That keeps the referendums down to a manageable level. For major changes like changing the voting system you should have a single issue referendum.
Time for realpolitik guys not Marvel comic fantasies
How much Ukraine territory are you proposing to give to the fascist autocrat ? And how much next time he invades ?
Realpolitik is telling him to fuck off back to his own country.
The countries proposing a ‘deal’, with “security guarantees’ for Ukraine - France and Germany (with Italy in tow), are those who underwrote the last set of security guarantees. How did that work out ?
Why didn't we supply arms to czechoslovakia when Russia invaded in 1968
What a devastating point - things have happened differently in the past, and geopolitics is not consistent, I had never noticed that before.
Thanfully, nations are not bound by precedent in international relations, the Russians cannot complain to the referee that we are helping oppose them now because we didn't in 1968.
Maybe we had more sensible leaders then who knew the horrors of war
The only nation that can stop the horrors of this war is the one that started it: Russia.
Once it is defeated and in retreat, like after the defeats in Kyiv and Kharkiv, then the talks can start, and the reparations, return home of the Ukranians deported to Siberia can begin.
GaryL is calling for a compromise peace to end the Russian invsion of Ukraine. I think there are compromises most of us would accept. Here are three, just to get us started: 1. Putin gets life in solitary confinement rather than the death penalty. 2. Belarus holds a free and fair election, supervised by the European Union 3. Putin finally signs a peace treaty with Japan, and gives up those four disputed Kuril islands.
I'm sure GaryL would agree with all three. Perhaps others would like to help him out by suggesting additional compromises.
Time for realpolitik guys not Marvel comic fantasies
How much Ukraine territory are you proposing to give to the fascist autocrat ? And how much next time he invades ?
Realpolitik is telling him to fuck off back to his own country.
The countries proposing a ‘deal’, with “security guarantees’ for Ukraine - France and Germany (with Italy in tow), are those who underwrote the last set of security guarantees. How did that work out ?
Why didn't we supply arms to czechoslovakia when Russia invaded in 1968
What a devastating point - things have happened differently in the past, and geopolitics is not consistent, I had never noticed that before.
Thanfully, nations are not bound by precedent in international relations, the Russians cannot complain to the referee that we are helping oppose them now because we didn't in 1968.
Maybe we had more sensible leaders then who knew the horrors of war
You are hilarious. War is indeed horrible, yet am I to believe there are no circumstances in which it is justified? Like, say, an invasion?
More to the point, we the UK are not directly involved in the war, all it costs us is money and material. You think money and material is too much to provide to people who are fighting for their lives against an aggressor?
You're just doing the moral switcharound again, trying to suggest helping people defend themselves is morally iffy because it 'prolongs' war, which as has already been noted is merely an argument that anyone who has ever been attacked should surrender immediately because 'war is horrible'.
I remember back in February when PJohnson was on here pushing the line that Russia was winning and it's best Ukraine rolls over.
The last few months have not really supported that view. If only PJohnson was still here to defend these view. I'm sure as a reasonable person they have probably now changed their mind in the face of the evidence.
Yes Russia suffered setbacks but sadly they are now winning in the donbass hence the conciliatory noises now being made in the west
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
RT. The Kremlin's Twitter feed. George Galloway. ...
Don't forget, Derby's very own apologist:
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
I find his sort utterly repellant. They think they are so profound and that calling for peace makes them noble, as if no one had ever thought peace was a good idea until they suggested it, then ignore anything that might make actual agreement complicated or costly. It's moral posturing of the worst kind, at best, and in his case probably just cover for his true thoughts.
As far as I am concerned " negotiated peace" is code for giving Vlad a chunk of Ukraine in the East and then letting him rebuild and regroup for three years before a fresh assault.
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
Thankfully idiots like him won't change what is happening. America is providing a huge amount of military aid, and when Ukraine starts receiving the kind of weapons that will tip the balance in their favour, rather than the stuff that was initially provided for a guerilla war, then the Russian military will see just how denuded they have been due to Communism and the kleptocracy that replaced it.
Yes, the new Ukranian tank formations should be ready for the counter-offensive shortly, and the attrition of Russian equipment at current rates will destroy Russian offensive power within months.
In terms of military advantage, NATO is doing very well. For a fairly modest expenditure, and by sending mothballed kit, NATO will have effectively disarmed its only major threat. Its a bargain for our defence budget.
I can see why Russian apologists want a ceasefire.. It is a "stop the count" moment where they know they have reached high tide, and ahead is only defeat.
Clearly many western elites and the ny times disagree with you Foxy but after all I suppose doctors are always right
Not the first Russian to have a problem with Doctors
Nor is it the first time the NYT has got things grievously wrong on Ukraine, if we’re revisiting the Stalin era, as Gary seems to favour.
Western elites are clearly losing their resolve as Putin calculated they would
Not at all. Didn't you see the Polish PM in Kyiv today, promising whatever it takes?
You may not be aware that we have a free press, so newspapers here are not just government mouth pieces like in your country, so publish a variety of opinions.
Poland is not the major player in this as I'm sure you know uk USA France and Germany are key countries I don't regard Poland as part of the western elite
I know. They are just baby Slavs who should bow down to the glory of Great Russia. That's the Kremlin line isn't it?
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
Thankfully idiots like him won't change what is happening. America is providing a huge amount of military aid, and when Ukraine starts receiving the kind of weapons that will tip the balance in their favour, rather than the stuff that was initially provided for a guerilla war, then the Russian military will see just how denuded they have been due to Communism and the kleptocracy that replaced it.
Yes, the new Ukranian tank formations should be ready for the counter-offensive shortly, and the attrition of Russian equipment at current rates will destroy Russian offensive power within months.
In terms of military advantage, NATO is doing very well. For a fairly modest expenditure, and by sending mothballed kit, NATO will have effectively disarmed its only major threat. Its a bargain for our defence budget.
I can see why Russian apologists want a ceasefire.. It is a "stop the count" moment where they know they have reached high tide, and ahead is only defeat.
Clearly many western elites and the ny times disagree with you Foxy but after all I suppose doctors are always right
Not the first Russian to have a problem with Doctors
By the way, this is the EASY bit for Russia. Occupying a country of 40+ million people who hate and despise you is essentially impossible, that would suck Russia dry.
The best thing for Russia, I'm sure @GaryL would agree, would be for them to avoid the deaths of thousands of young men and the impoverishment of their country.
And how can they avoid such an outcome? Ah yes, Russia can withdraw from Ukraine.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
RT. The Kremlin's Twitter feed. George Galloway. ...
Don't forget, Derby's very own apologist:
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
Western elites are clearly losing their resolve as Putin calculated they would
Not at all. Didn't you see the Polish PM in Kyiv today, promising whatever it takes?
You may not be aware that we have a free press, so newspapers here are not just government mouth pieces like in your country, so publish a variety of opinions.
Poland is not the major player in this as I'm sure you know uk USA France and Germany are key countries I don't regard Poland as part of the western elite
That is true of the US, but the military aid from France and particularly Germany has been insignificant in terms of making a difference to Ukraine’s ability to fight. As I’m sure you know.
One thing I like about the 'war is horrible' switcharoo is that far from meaning people should stop providing support for Ukraine's defence (and thus aid the Russians, totally coincidentally), it actually destroys the Russian pretext for getting involved in the first place, since even if the Ukrainians were nazis killing 'Russians', they should not have done anything about it because 'war is horrible'.
Ergo, Russia should still just immediately retreat.
Western elites are clearly losing their resolve as Putin calculated they would
Not at all. Didn't you see the Polish PM in Kyiv today, promising whatever it takes?
You may not be aware that we have a free press, so newspapers here are not just government mouth pieces like in your country, so publish a variety of opinions.
Poland is not the major player in this as I'm sure you know uk USA France and Germany are key countries I don't regard Poland as part of the western elite
I know. They are just baby Slavs who should bow down to the glory of Great Russia. That's the Kremlin line isn't it?
Don't think that is an argument maybe it's time to have a look in more shopping trollies for inspiration
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
RT. The Kremlin's Twitter feed. George Galloway. ...
Don't forget, Derby's very own apologist:
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
I find his sort utterly repellant. They think they are so profound and that calling for peace makes them noble, as if no one had ever thought peace was a good idea until they suggested it, then ignore anything that might make actual agreement complicated or costly. It's moral posturing of the worst kind, at best, and in his case probably just cover for his true thoughts.
I can accept that some people will argue for peace at any price. But not such a price that it means imposing any sanctions on Russia.
As for the sanctions being stupid which ones exactly. The 2014 sanctions may not have been tough enough but the end of Russia's ability to buy military kit from the west almost certainly hampered their ability to fight this war. Sanctions don't always lead to governments collapsing but the idea they never achieve anything is rubbish.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
RT. The Kremlin's Twitter feed. George Galloway. ...
Don't forget, Derby's very own apologist:
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
He's an idiot but he may inadvertently be right that eventually a negotiated peace could be an option.
Oh certainly there will be a negotiated peace at the end. No one is expecting a Ukranian occupation of Moscow, with an imposed puppet government. That though is for the Ukranian government to decide.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
Nah, Russia is toast. Its the Russo-Japanese war revisited, with revolution to come. Oligarchs and their lapdogs should flee while they can.
Not sure about revolution. Seems just as likely that Vlad will be moved to a hospital for 'treatment' for various 'illnesses' and another group will take over from within the silovik who will find a way out of the morass of Ukraine and concentrate on the home land and its economy and rebuilding a shattered military no longer able to police its own borders.
Yes, the future of Russia is as an inward looking failed state.
Quite possibly, fractured statelets which Moscow will struggle to hold together in any coherent nation.
I remember back in February when PJohnson was on here pushing the line that Russia was winning and it's best Ukraine rolls over.
The last few months have not really supported that view. If only PJohnson was still here to defend these view. I'm sure as a reasonable person they have probably now changed their mind in the face of the evidence.
Quite. Not the only one who pushed that line though, and some albeit more subtle suggest something similar even now by acting as though making victory more costly for Russia is no different than being steamrollered. It's like no one has heard of a pyhrric victory, or noticed wars don't always move in one direction.
Which is weird, as you'd think such people talking up a 'realist' approach would notice, just as an example, that in the Great Patriotic War Russia initially got beaten quite a bit before things (by heroic effort) turned around.
That does mean things could get worse for Ukraine as well as better, but for some reason a contrarian pessimist view is presented as definitely more realist than an optimistic view, when it surely depends on the situation.
By the way, this is the EASY bit for Russia. Occupying a country of 40+ million people who hate and despise you is essentially impossible, that would suck Russia dry.
The best thing for Russia, I'm sure @GaryL would agree, would be for them to avoid the deaths of thousands of young men and the impoverishment of their country.
And how can they avoid such an outcome? Ah yes, Russia can withdraw from Ukraine.
I agree for the whole country but I certainly think Russia could hold the eastern part And unfortunately we don't have the power to order Russia to withdraw from Ukraine
Western elites are clearly losing their resolve as Putin calculated they would
Not at all. Didn't you see the Polish PM in Kyiv today, promising whatever it takes?
You may not be aware that we have a free press, so newspapers here are not just government mouth pieces like in your country, so publish a variety of opinions.
Poland is not the major player in this as I'm sure you know uk USA France and Germany are key countries I don't regard Poland as part of the western elite
I know. They are just baby Slavs who should bow down to the glory of Great Russia. That's the Kremlin line isn't it?
Don't think that is an argument maybe it's time to have a look in more shopping trollies for inspiration
Yeah, perhaps you could update us on the empty shopping trollies in St Petersberg?
I see the youngsters there are getting restive. How far off is the storming of the Winter Palace?
Young, urban Russians attend a concert in St. Petersburg.
The entire crowd is chanting “F the war”.
One of the few occasions to voice dissent without getting arrested.
Point is sensible leaders in the west realise this war is going nowhere and costing thousands of lives
Bollocks do they. Sensible leaders realise that Ukraine has the resolve to fight Russia indefinitely if they armed to do so. But can Russia keep going? Probably not, they will have to escalate or fold. And I suspect that the number of Russian military leaders confident of their ability to wage a greater war is declining by the day. Hell, even Putin probably realises he's fucked it up.
So why the sounds of compromise from the west tonite you don't do that if you are winning
Ukraine is unwilling to cede territory. The Russian military needs to bleed, burn, and the survivors go home. America will provide the means to do that.
How long would that take,, months , years, never meanwhile the developing world starves and the western economies crash
At current rates of loss, the Russian army will no longer be capable of offensive operations soon. Whether it becomes a stalemate or a rout at that point is unclear.
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
I always find doctors some of the most gullible in believing everything they read in the msm, I get my information from many sources
RT. The Kremlin's Twitter feed. George Galloway. ...
Don't forget, Derby's very own apologist:
Chris Williamson @DerbyChrisW · May 21 Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
I find his sort utterly repellant. They think they are so profound and that calling for peace makes them noble, as if no one had ever thought peace was a good idea until they suggested it, then ignore anything that might make actual agreement complicated or costly. It's moral posturing of the worst kind, at best, and in his case probably just cover for his true thoughts.
I can accept that some people will argue for peace at any price. But not such a price that it means imposing any sanctions on Russia.
As for the sanctions being stupid which ones exactly. The 2014 sanctions may not have been tough enough but the end of Russia's ability to buy military kit from the west almost certainly hampered their ability to fight this war. Sanctions don't always lead to governments collapsing but the idea they never achieve anything is rubbish.
Your last point is a vital one. People opposed to doing it at all will quickly leap to saying they are ineffective, typically by judging them against criteria (eg imminent collapse) that no one with an IQ abouve 50 thought was probable.
We know the sanctions have had at least some effect, because Russia whinged about them (even as it insists everything is fine). They wouldn't bother if it meant nothing.
Sophy Ridge monstering the hapless Zahawi was fun , his stuttering , obfuscating and not answering the questions on Boris strongarming Gray was pitiful. Another bumbling useless Tory lickspittle no user.
friends say Sue Gray was deliberately ostracised while investigating Partygate https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/22/she-has-been-horribly-isolated-friends-say-sue-gray-was-deliberately-ostracised-while-investigating-partygate ...A Whitehall official who knows about the inquiry was “horrified” by the way Gray had been installed to investigate the organisation she works within, then given minimum help and maximum discouragement from revealing the truth.... ...The suspicion among many in the civil service is that Gray was asked to do the job because those at No 10 thought that it would be impossible even for someone as respected as Gray to reveal all the system’s wrongdoings from the inside, particularly if she wanted to remain in the civil service afterwards.
Despite this, Gray has ploughed gamely on, gathering information from emails, photographs, phone logs and police security logs in an attempt to establish what parties happened when, and who attended them.
This weekend, with days to go before the release of her final report – one that could well have a bearing on how long Boris Johnson can remain prime minister – the pressure on her from No 10 and civil servants is at its height...
I remember back in February when PJohnson was on here pushing the line that Russia was winning and it's best Ukraine rolls over.
The last few months have not really supported that view. If only PJohnson was still here to defend these view. I'm sure as a reasonable person they have probably now changed their mind in the face of the evidence.
Yes Russia suffered setbacks but sadly they are now winning in the donbass hence the conciliatory noises now being made in the west
I think peak ukrainian resistance is over
Yes I actually think it would be better if Ukraine surrenders.. their defeat is inevitable
Putin going for the win tonite [ 25th February ]
Breaking news all routes out of Kiev blocked by the russians
This is "greatest hits" territory and they were only here for 90 comments. Epic.
You obviously remember this guy well so well you recall his exact quotes, but remember things change, Ukraine got armed by the west and pushed back then the Russians regrouped and started to make gains again in the east But the cost in misery and human lives has been immense,, pray for the ukrainians
Sophy Ridge monstering the hapless Zahawi was fun , his stuttering , obfuscating and not answering the questions on Boris strongarming Gray was pitiful. Another bumbling useless Tory lickspittle no user.
friends say Sue Gray was deliberately ostracised while investigating Partygate https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/22/she-has-been-horribly-isolated-friends-say-sue-gray-was-deliberately-ostracised-while-investigating-partygate ...A Whitehall official who knows about the inquiry was “horrified” by the way Gray had been installed to investigate the organisation she works within, then given minimum help and maximum discouragement from revealing the truth.... ...The suspicion among many in the civil service is that Gray was asked to do the job because those at No 10 thought that it would be impossible even for someone as respected as Gray to reveal all the system’s wrongdoings from the inside, particularly if she wanted to remain in the civil service afterwards.
Despite this, Gray has ploughed gamely on, gathering information from emails, photographs, phone logs and police security logs in an attempt to establish what parties happened when, and who attended them.
This weekend, with days to go before the release of her final report – one that could well have a bearing on how long Boris Johnson can remain prime minister – the pressure on her from No 10 and civil servants is at its height...
I said as much on here the other day.
I dread to think what was said to her in that meeting. Hope she puts the boot right in.
Western elites are clearly losing their resolve as Putin calculated they would
Not at all. Didn't you see the Polish PM in Kyiv today, promising whatever it takes?
You may not be aware that we have a free press, so newspapers here are not just government mouth pieces like in your country, so publish a variety of opinions.
Poland is not the major player in this as I'm sure you know uk USA France and Germany are key countries I don't regard Poland as part of the western elite
I know. They are just baby Slavs who should bow down to the glory of Great Russia. That's the Kremlin line isn't it?
Don't think that is an argument maybe it's time to have a look in more shopping trollies for inspiration
Yeah, perhaps you could update us on the empty shopping trollies in St Petersberg?
I see the youngsters there are getting restive. How far off is the storming of the Winter Palace?
Young, urban Russians attend a concert in St. Petersburg.
The entire crowd is chanting “F the war”.
One of the few occasions to voice dissent without getting arrested.
By the way, this is the EASY bit for Russia. Occupying a country of 40+ million people who hate and despise you is essentially impossible, that would suck Russia dry.
The best thing for Russia, I'm sure @GaryL would agree, would be for them to avoid the deaths of thousands of young men and the impoverishment of their country.
And how can they avoid such an outcome? Ah yes, Russia can withdraw from Ukraine.
An unintended omission, I am sure.
But it is why those playing the moral card about how awful it is that 'we' are helping more people die are so bizarre, given that much simpler option. At least 'realists' talking casually about giving up territory (in fairness I cannot see Ukraine ever getting some bits back, but it isn't something to be blase about) are attempting to make some sort of hard calculation about the need to placate even an enemy.
Those doing it (supposedly) from a perspective of how awful war is don't have a leg to stand on in not focusing on the cause of the violence, but rather the response to it.
By the way, this is the EASY bit for Russia. Occupying a country of 40+ million people who hate and despise you is essentially impossible, that would suck Russia dry.
The best thing for Russia, I'm sure @GaryL would agree, would be for them to avoid the deaths of thousands of young men and the impoverishment of their country.
And how can they avoid such an outcome? Ah yes, Russia can withdraw from Ukraine.
I agree for the whole country but I certainly think Russia could hold the eastern part And unfortunately we don't have the power to order Russia to withdraw from Ukraine
Quite the come down from three months ago Maybe it might as well go for broke invade Eastern Europe see where the chips land
Come back in August, and it'll be Maybe Russia can hold most of the country east of the Urals?
I still don't get why Putin went for Kiev. Hubris I suppose.
Comments
1. The victor writes the story of the war, and is much more likely to do so in a way that is flattering to them - as the innocent victim of unprovoked aggression, rather than as a bloodthirsty aggressor.
2. Democracies are generally better at waging war, because they are more productive, meritocratic, inventive and cohesive and less corrupt societies, but they are less likely to start wars, because of the costs that they impose.
3. Everyone prefers to get what they can without a war, and so a country generally only fights a war when the other side in a dispute refuses to accommodate demands made. This generally indicates a willingness to fight, and the defenders generally have the advantage. Despite what might often be said about fighting to the death, generally speaking most people do not fight lost causes, and aggressors tend to misjudge the extent to which resistance to them would be a lost cause.
Certainly not the one taking place in Ukraine.
Remember when Russia invaded czechoslovakia in 1968 we did nothing then
Sadly, Ukraine doesn't get to be an independent country; it gets to be a Russian-sponsored one or a US-sponsored one. It has chosen the latter, for understandable reasons, and it's naive to think Zelensky will do anything out of step with Uncle Sam any more than Yanukovich would have done anything to piss Putin off.
France -1870
Germany/Austria Hungary - 1914
Japan - 1937/1941
Germany - 1939
Just to stay with.
Covid was liberalism’s endgame
Liberal individualism has an innate tendency towards authoritarianism
BY MATTHEW CRAWFORD"
https://unherd.com/2022/05/covid-was-liberalisms-endgame/
If Russia really cared for these places it wouldn't level them with artillery and exterminate or deport their citizens to Siberia.
Indeed, given the LD candidate is a male army officer and the Tory candidate is now a local woman teacher, if anything the Tory candidate looks more like a LD candidate and the LD candidate more like a classic Tory candidate
Suppose there's a SF/FF coalition after the next Irish general election. The result is most likely to be the end of FF.
I think the main point is that it's easier for voters to get what they want with STV/PR, because voters can vote honestly for what they want, and that has a direct influence on the public debate. With FPTP people's true political opinions are somewhat obscured by tactical voting considerations - so we really don't know what the true level of support for the Liberal Democrats is, and the Remain-supporting establishment was surprised by the strength of support for Leave.
This will only lead to an endless nirvana for progressive politics when progressive politics gets better at winning the public debate. But I do think the public debate should be better with STV/PR, because there's a chance of it escaping from a series of false dichotomies.
The Lockean assumption has been quietly put to bed over the last 30 years, and we have fully embraced the Hobbesian alternative.
The Nineties saw the rise of new currents in the social sciences that emphasise the cognitive incompetence of human beings, deposing the “rational actor” model of human behaviour. This gave us nudge theory , a way to alter people’s behaviour without having to persuade them of anything. It would be hard to overstate the degree to which this approach has been institutionalised, on both sides of the Atlantic. The innovation achieved here is in the way government conceives its subjects: not as citizens whose considered consent must be secured, but as particles to be steered through a science of behaviour management that relies on our pre-reflective cognitive biases."
It is the greatest triumph of an underdog since David slew Goliath: Ukraine's defeat of Russia at Kyiv and Kharkiv have revealed Russia as a paper tiger, the collapse of Mr Putin's army is inevitable and Ukraine can win the war if only the Western alliance holds its nerve.
Or is that nothing but a fantasy, out of touch with the cold realities of the balance of power, Russia's nuclear status and its battlefield successes on the southern front?
Isn't the inevitable outcome of the war a grotty compromise that preserves Ukrainian sovereignty, but cedes Russia some territory? And if so, shouldn't the West push Kyiv to accept that reality before more lives are lost?
If a stalemate though, there will be no end to sanctions.
The history of the war would have had them coming to the defence of ethnic Germans in Poland who were under unprovoked aggression, and then defeating France and Britain who had attacked an innocent Germany. A different victor to the war, and yet the aggressor would still have lost. I mean, Britain did declare war on Germany, rather than vice versa.
If you truly can't see the difference between right and wrong on this particular issue then you are completely lost. I genuinely believe you are following the same line as those who excused or supported the Anschluss in 1938.
Chris Williamson
@DerbyChrisW
·
May 21
Looks like the sanctions against Russia are collapsing. Italy has massively increased imports of Russian oil. The sanctions are stupid and counterproductive. They should all be lifted immediately and the focus should be on a negotiated peace in #Ukraine
https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1528118402774183938
And how much next time he invades ?
Realpolitik is telling him to fuck off back to his own country.
The countries proposing a ‘deal’, with “security guarantees’ for Ukraine - France and Germany (with Italy in tow), are those who underwrote the last set of security guarantees.
How did that work out ?
Leaving them in possession of stolen territory just guarantees it continues to be useless.
How about you answer my questions ?
In doing so, I have occasionally posted a news snippet (never from RT, always reputable Western sources) that suggested that atrocities emerging at times in this war were not wholly supported by the evidence. That has always been met by posts like yours above.
If a Political Betting forum where most are posting from the leafy shires has become so febrile, then how on earth (to return to my comment that sparked your rebuke) does the ordinary citizen of Ukraine register any kind of negative view on the fact that their country is envisaged as a permanent warzone?
That was the argument laid out in an editorial in the New York Times - sparking uproar in Kyiv amid growing fears about the resolve of elites in both the United States and Europe to see the conflict through.
The piece, attributed to the paper’s Editorial Board, argued that Russia is too strong for Ukraine to defeat decisively on the battlefield; that the realistic outcome of the war will involve territorial concessions from Ukraine; and that President Joe Biden should make this clear to Volodymyr Zelensky sooner rather than later - including by placing clear limits on US support for Kyiv.
Despite Ukraine’s stunning successes around Kyiv and Kharkiv, “a decisive military victory for Ukraine over Russia, in which Ukraine regains all the territory Russia has seized since 2014, is not a realistic goal,” the newspaper wrote.
Ultimately, it said: “It will be Ukrainian leaders who will have to make the painful territorial decisions that any compromise will demand.”
In terms of military advantage, NATO is doing very well. For a fairly modest expenditure, and by sending mothballed kit, NATO will have effectively disarmed its only major threat. Its a bargain for our defence budget.
I can see why Russian apologists want a ceasefire.. It is a "stop the count" moment where they know they have reached high tide, and ahead is only defeat.
Thanfully, nations are not bound by precedent in international relations, the Russians cannot complain to the referee that we are helping oppose them now because we didn't in 1968.
You may not be aware that we have a free press, so newspapers here are not just government mouth pieces like in your country, so publish a variety of opinions.
Besides which, I think you'll find Dr Foxy was proffering an opinion. There is no need for people to caveat every utterance so, I think we all know everyone is providing opinion, not gospel truths.
Once it is defeated and in retreat, like after the defeats in Kyiv and Kharkiv, then the talks can start, and the reparations, return home of the Ukranians deported to Siberia can begin.
1. Putin gets life in solitary confinement rather than the death penalty.
2. Belarus holds a free and fair election, supervised by the European Union
3. Putin finally signs a peace treaty with Japan, and gives up those four disputed Kuril islands.
I'm sure GaryL would agree with all three. Perhaps others would like to help him out by suggesting additional compromises.
More to the point, we the UK are not directly involved in the war, all it costs us is money and material. You think money and material is too much to provide to people who are fighting for their lives against an aggressor?
You're just doing the moral switcharound again, trying to suggest helping people defend themselves is morally iffy because it 'prolongs' war, which as has already been noted is merely an argument that anyone who has ever been attacked should surrender immediately because 'war is horrible'.
The best thing for Russia, I'm sure @GaryL would agree, would be for them to avoid the deaths of thousands of young men and the impoverishment of their country.
And how can they avoid such an outcome? Ah yes, Russia can withdraw from Ukraine.
As I’m sure you know.
Ergo, Russia should still just immediately retreat.
As for the sanctions being stupid which ones exactly. The 2014 sanctions may not have been tough enough but the end of Russia's ability to buy military kit from the west almost certainly hampered their ability to fight this war. Sanctions don't always lead to governments collapsing but the idea they never achieve anything is rubbish.
Which is weird, as you'd think such people talking up a 'realist' approach would notice, just as an example, that in the Great Patriotic War Russia initially got beaten quite a bit before things (by heroic effort) turned around.
That does mean things could get worse for Ukraine as well as better, but for some reason a contrarian pessimist view is presented as definitely more realist than an optimistic view, when it surely depends on the situation.
And unfortunately we don't have the power to order Russia to withdraw from Ukraine
I see the youngsters there are getting restive. How far off is the storming of the Winter Palace?
Young, urban Russians attend a concert in St. Petersburg.
The entire crowd is chanting “F the war”.
One of the few occasions to voice dissent without getting arrested.
https://t.co/UxP5Q76sNR
We know the sanctions have had at least some effect, because Russia whinged about them (even as it insists everything is fine). They wouldn't bother if it meant nothing.
But the cost in misery and human lives has been immense,, pray for the ukrainians
Labour 12082
Conservatives 8025
Yorkshire Party 1395
Greens 1213
Liberal Democrats 829
Others 350
But it is why those playing the moral card about how awful it is that 'we' are helping more people die are so bizarre, given that much simpler option. At least 'realists' talking casually about giving up territory (in fairness I cannot see Ukraine ever getting some bits back, but it isn't something to be blase about) are attempting to make some sort of hard calculation about the need to placate even an enemy.
Those doing it (supposedly) from a perspective of how awful war is don't have a leg to stand on in not focusing on the cause of the violence, but rather the response to it.