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LAB lead down to 1% with YouGov – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 15 in General
imageLAB lead down to 1% with YouGov – politicalbetting.com

This is by far the best poll for the Tories for sometime and as ever the question is whether it is an outlier or not. Other recent polls have had with much bigger margins including R&W where all the fieldwork took place yesterday.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,658
    First.
  • eekeek Posts: 18,825
    What's the odds of a 2022 General Election? - after all the news from here on in is going to be mainly bad.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745
    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    Fieldwork 5-6 May.
    At the height of Mailgate.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,388
    56 seats for SNP looks a bit high doesn't it?
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 136
    Savanta survey says people think Starmer broke the COVID rules by 49% to 18%. So they will be disappointed if he doesn't resign regardless of what the police think.
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 136
    eek said:

    What's the odds of a 2022 General Election? - after all the news from here on in is going to be mainly bad.

    Zero.
  • pingping Posts: 2,143
    Nothing meaningful on cost of living in the QS
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464
    edited May 10
    eek said:

    What's the odds of a 2022 General Election? - after all the news from here on in is going to be mainly bad.

    I just cannot see it but then who could have seen Starmer and Rayner under police investigation more than a few days ago
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 40,636
    Must be an outlier :lol:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    A necessary condition for a peace agreement must surely be the repatriation of the huge number of abducted Ukrainians ?

    Russia has deported more than 1,185 million people from Ukraine, including 200,000 children, since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, says Ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1523947789872418817
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 136
    Pensfold said:

    Savanta survey says people think Starmer broke the COVID rules by 49% to 18%. So they will be disappointed if he doesn't resign regardless of what the police think.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1523705515930398720/photo/1
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,350
    That Parliament would be hell for Starmer. Would have to be PM, but would be seen to be beholden to Sturgeon.
  • pingping Posts: 2,143
    Nigelb said:

    A necessary condition for a peace agreement must surely be the repatriation of the huge number of abducted Ukrainians ?

    Russia has deported more than 1,185 million people from Ukraine, including 200,000 children, since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, says Ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1523947789872418817

    1,185 million?

    That’s a lot of Ukrainians.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,700
    biggles said:

    That Parliament would be hell for Starmer. Would have to be PM, but would be seen to be beholden to Sturgeon.

    I take the opposite view. A balance of power is only held when there is a credible possibility of switching sides.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,748
    biggles said:

    That Parliament would be hell for Starmer. Would have to be PM, but would be seen to be beholden to Sturgeon.

    Least of his worries, frankly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    Striking that the Lib Dems and Greens, with a combined 18% of the vote, get 3% of the seats.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,579

    eek said:

    What's the odds of a 2022 General Election? - after all the news from here on in is going to be mainly bad.

    I just cannot see it but then who could have seen Starmer and Rayner under police investigation more than a few days ago
    You could, you have been demanding it for a fortnight.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    Boozy labour on the slide.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    The car has a hat ?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 3,530
    Why opinion polls should be taken with a mount of salt, part 3254252 of an ongoing series.

    One in five have heard a lot about "hikegate"
    https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1523705515930398720
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,152
    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    A necessary condition for a peace agreement must surely be the repatriation of the huge number of abducted Ukrainians ?

    Russia has deported more than 1,185 million people from Ukraine, including 200,000 children, since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, says Ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1523947789872418817

    1,185 million?

    That’s a lot of Ukrainians.
    Continental decimal point, I think. One of those translation issues, like 'bomb'.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 40,636
    Nigelb said:

    Striking that the Lib Dems and Greens, with a combined 18% of the vote, get 3% of the seats.

    FPTP = bullshit system!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464

    eek said:

    What's the odds of a 2022 General Election? - after all the news from here on in is going to be mainly bad.

    I just cannot see it but then who could have seen Starmer and Rayner under police investigation more than a few days ago
    You could, you have been demanding it for a fortnight.
    Well, maybe 14 days ago
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,999
    Polling like 04-05 again with a slim Labour lead and a huge vaguely lefty NOTA vote.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 611
    edited May 10

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    To try and portray the UK as the only backwards place fixated on medieval tradition is a common misconception though. Arguing against the traditions is fine if you feel they're too extravagant but it's not really weird or unusual to have them. Many countries, even republics, have stupid traditions or quirks for opening their legislatures. The Netherlands basically mirrors our ceremony for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag

    I think a lot of people see the dull bureaucratic business style of newer Parliaments like the EU Parliament and the devolved assemblies and think that they're the norm when they're not.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,535
    edited May 10

    eek said:

    What's the odds of a 2022 General Election? - after all the news from here on in is going to be mainly bad.

    I just cannot see it but then who could have seen Starmer and Rayner under police investigation more than a few days ago
    Emphasis above mine - You? You were after all posting about it a lot :wink:

    Edit: Heh, Mexicanpete was thinking the same. Somewhat vindicated, of course, BigG
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,152
    edited May 10
    rkrkrk said:

    56 seats for SNP looks a bit high doesn't it?

    Well, FPTP, and it has sort of happened before. Though I would be surprised if it were that high.

    Of course we're also used to Holyrood, but that's got the opposite problem from FPTP anyway.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412
    edited May 10
    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson started from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, until the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, really significantly for the first time. Now look what happens.
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 136
    Carnyx said:

    rkrkrk said:

    56 seats for SNP looks a bit high doesn't it?

    Well, FPTP, and it has sort of happened before. Though I would be surprised if it were that high.

    Of course we're also used to Holyrood, but that's got the opposite problem from FPTP anyway.
    Last past the post?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 40,636
    RH1992 said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    To try and portray the UK as the only backwards place fixated on medieval tradition is a common misconception though. Arguing against the traditions is fine if you feel they're too extravagant but it's not really weird or unusual to have them. Many countries, even republics, have stupid traditions or quirks for opening their legislatures. The Netherlands basically mirrors our ceremony for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag
    The Netherlands is a monarchy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,152
    Pensfold said:

    Carnyx said:

    rkrkrk said:

    56 seats for SNP looks a bit high doesn't it?

    Well, FPTP, and it has sort of happened before. Though I would be surprised if it were that high.

    Of course we're also used to Holyrood, but that's got the opposite problem from FPTP anyway.
    Last past the post?
    Not quite that bad - but it'sd the closest voting system to that in the UK. It penalises very strongly. Very strong gearing, more so than Senedd AFAICS.
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 136
    RH1992 said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    To try and portray the UK as the only backwards place fixated on medieval tradition is a common misconception though. Arguing against the traditions is fine if you feel they're too extravagant but it's not really weird or unusual to have them. Many countries, even republics, have stupid traditions or quirks for opening their legislatures. The Netherlands basically mirrors our ceremony for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag
    There would have been a goof reason for the tradition in the first place even if the reason is now lost in the mists of time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    A necessary condition for a peace agreement must surely be the repatriation of the huge number of abducted Ukrainians ?

    Russia has deported more than 1,185 million people from Ukraine, including 200,000 children, since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, says Ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1523947789872418817

    Nazi Germany was fond of stealing blond Eastern European kids, as well...

    Putin's Russia is a global abomination. I do not see how we can ever make a compromised peace with it, whatever Macron says
    The other comparison is of course Stalin, who forcibly displaced millions for his political ends.
    Fellow mass murderer Putin would probably be flattered by it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,365

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    I have great respect for the Queen and her traditions but that period of our history is coming to an end, and change will happen with demands for a lot smaller royal family and I have little doubt William and Kate will further modernise it with a lot less pomp and circumstance in the future

    It is inevitable
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,152
    edited May 10
    RH1992 said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    To try and portray the UK as the only backwards place fixated on medieval tradition is a common misconception though. Arguing against the traditions is fine if you feel they're too extravagant but it's not really weird or unusual to have them. Many countries, even republics, have stupid traditions or quirks for opening their legislatures. The Netherlands basically mirrors our ceremony for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag
    Not even mediaeval. By all accoiunts ENglish coronations before the CV20 were disorganized shambles. It was the C20 which whipped up a mix of pseudotraditions. LIke a post-Arnoldian "public school" in a mediaeval gothic quadrangle.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,536

    Nigelb said:

    Striking that the Lib Dems and Greens, with a combined 18% of the vote, get 3% of the seats.

    FPTP = bullshit system!
    FPTP might one day result in your MP being PM!
  • xxxxx5xxxxx5 Posts: 37
    What are we heading for? 2010 or reverse or 1992/2005? I think the Tories will largest party with DUP support in 2024
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 136
    Nigelb said:

    Striking that the Lib Dems and Greens, with a combined 18% of the vote, get 3% of the seats.

    But the reverse for the SNP.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412
    edited May 10
    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    Not me. I've only put in a couple of comments on Beergate, and have been off the site for a few weeks.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    Pensfold said:

    RH1992 said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    To try and portray the UK as the only backwards place fixated on medieval tradition is a common misconception though. Arguing against the traditions is fine if you feel they're too extravagant but it's not really weird or unusual to have them. Many countries, even republics, have stupid traditions or quirks for opening their legislatures. The Netherlands basically mirrors our ceremony for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag
    There would have been a goof reason for the tradition in the first place....
    There still is.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 3,530

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    Alternatively it shows the Mail, hateful rag though it is, is populist and has its finger on the pulse and goes after whatever its readers want.

    They're not leading the public, they're generally following it and recognising what its section of the public wants to hear.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    That was about yesterday's news, not last week's, though.
    Check the dates for the fieldwork,
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,748
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    A necessary condition for a peace agreement must surely be the repatriation of the huge number of abducted Ukrainians ?

    Russia has deported more than 1,185 million people from Ukraine, including 200,000 children, since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, says Ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1523947789872418817

    Nazi Germany was fond of stealing blond Eastern European kids, as well...

    Putin's Russia is a global abomination. I do not see how we can ever make a compromised peace with it, whatever Macron says
    The other comparison is of course Stalin, who forcibly displaced millions for his political ends.
    Fellow mass murderer Putin would probably be flattered by it.
    Indeed. It is believed he wants to go down in history as one of the Russian "greats" along with Catherine, Peter and Stalin. This is the level of derangement.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464
    Selebian said:

    eek said:

    What's the odds of a 2022 General Election? - after all the news from here on in is going to be mainly bad.

    I just cannot see it but then who could have seen Starmer and Rayner under police investigation more than a few days ago
    Emphasis above mine - You? You were after all posting about it a lot :wink:

    Edit: Heh, Mexicanpete was thinking the same. Somewhat vindicated, of course, BigG
    I hold my hands up but the point still stands
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,365

    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    Not me. I've only put in a couple of comments on Beergate, and have been off the site for a few weeks.
    Apologies, it was @Wulfrun_Phil

    The capital W confused me. I probably need to go sit by the pool and drink Raki
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    Nigelb said:

    A necessary condition for a peace agreement must surely be the repatriation of the huge number of abducted Ukrainians ?

    Russia has deported more than 1,185 million people from Ukraine, including 200,000 children, since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, says Ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1523947789872418817

    Plebecites.

    Haven’t we been told that this is the way to end all this peacefully?

    Create some Serbian style facts on the ground. Then the vote. Then the returning people (if they return) don’t get voting cards. In their own land.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 611

    RH1992 said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    To try and portray the UK as the only backwards place fixated on medieval tradition is a common misconception though. Arguing against the traditions is fine if you feel they're too extravagant but it's not really weird or unusual to have them. Many countries, even republics, have stupid traditions or quirks for opening their legislatures. The Netherlands basically mirrors our ceremony for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag
    The Netherlands is a monarchy.
    I didn't say it wasn't, I just used it as a the most direct comparison. South Africa does it too if you want an example of a republic.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412
    edited May 10

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    Alternatively it shows the Mail, hateful rag though it is, is populist and has its finger on the pulse and goes after whatever its readers want.

    They're not leading the public, they're generally following it and recognising what its section of the public wants to hear.
    They're often leading the public, too. The Mail first went crazy after Paterson, also specifically in the change in the amount of its negative coverage, and the polls took a sudden and sharp jump.

    The idea that the press only follow opinion rather than also frame and form it is obvious nonsense.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    I have great respect for the Queen and her traditions but that period of our history is coming to an end, and change will happen with demands for a lot smaller royal family and I have little doubt William and Kate will further modernise it with a lot less pomp and circumstance in the future

    It is inevitable
    I entirely agree. The Queen has been a wonderful servant for this country, but as her time comes to an end we have to Stop and Think about what we want going forward.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 40,636

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    Alternatively it shows the Mail, hateful rag though it is, is populist and has its finger on the pulse and goes after whatever its readers want.

    They're not leading the public, they're generally following it and recognising what its section of the public wants to hear.
    I find Andrex is easier on the arse :lol:
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 3,530

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    Oh come off it.

    I'm a republican but lets be honest, all states have their own Pomp and Circumstance in such ceremonies.

    The Americans have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance with the President's equivalent State of the Union speech and other set pieces.

    The French have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance too in their Presidential set pieces.

    Of all the reasons to be a republican, the lack of Pomp and Circumstance in republics is not one of them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,152

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    I have great respect for the Queen and her traditions but that period of our history is coming to an end, and change will happen with demands for a lot smaller royal family and I have little doubt William and Kate will further modernise it with a lot less pomp and circumstance in the future

    It is inevitable
    I entirely agree. The Queen has been a wonderful servant for this country, but as her time comes to an end we have to Stop and Think about what we want going forward.
    Indeed. It's already too much like electing a bunch of reality TV stars to be President. Only we don't get to elect them obvs.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 40,636
    edited May 10

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    Oh come off it.

    I'm a republican but lets be honest, all states have their own Pomp and Circumstance in such ceremonies.

    The Americans have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance with the President's equivalent State of the Union speech and other set pieces.

    The French have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance too in their Presidential set pieces.

    Of all the reasons to be a republican, the lack of Pomp and Circumstance in republics is not one of them.
    North Korea says hello (or is it a monarchy run by the House of Kim?).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,365
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    A necessary condition for a peace agreement must surely be the repatriation of the huge number of abducted Ukrainians ?

    Russia has deported more than 1,185 million people from Ukraine, including 200,000 children, since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, says Ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1523947789872418817

    Nazi Germany was fond of stealing blond Eastern European kids, as well...

    Putin's Russia is a global abomination. I do not see how we can ever make a compromised peace with it, whatever Macron says
    The other comparison is of course Stalin, who forcibly displaced millions for his political ends.
    Fellow mass murderer Putin would probably be flattered by it.
    I wonder if there is some deep, mysterious historical law, which says countries traumatised by war end up inflicting a version of that trauma on others


    Israel springs to mind. Its treatment of Palestinians can sometimes resemble the Nazi treatment of Jews. Obviously not anywhere near as grotesque and evil - but there ARE echoes

    Now we have Russia behaving like Nazi Germany in eastern Europe and Russia in WW2?

    Hmm. Man hands on misery to man.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 30,849

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    Oh come off it.

    I'm a republican but lets be honest, all states have their own Pomp and Circumstance in such ceremonies.

    The Americans have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance with the President's equivalent State of the Union speech and other set pieces.

    The French have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance too in their Presidential set pieces.

    Of all the reasons to be a republican, the lack of Pomp and Circumstance in republics is not one of them.
    The French surround their President with as much pomp as any monarch, and he is the head of France's main chivalric order.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,632
    I've just seen photos, but Charles looked very sad. How was it? A sombre occasion?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    Not me. I've only put in a couple of comments on Beergate, and have been off the site for a few weeks.
    Apologies, it was @Wulfrun_Phil

    The capital W confused me. I probably need to go sit by the pool and drink Raki
    Are you in Greece ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,365

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    Not me. I've only put in a couple of comments on Beergate, and have been off the site for a few weeks.
    Apologies, it was @Wulfrun_Phil

    The capital W confused me. I probably need to go sit by the pool and drink Raki
    Are you in Greece ?
    Turkish Aegean, but heading for Greece next
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,579
    biggles said:

    That Parliament would be hell for Starmer. Would have to be PM, but would be seen to be beholden to Sturgeon.

    Taz said:

    Boozy labour on the slide.

    I am surprised we haven't got a four or five point Yougov Tory lead. It has been wall to wall bad news for Starmer/Labour for a week.

    Johnson should have announced his snap election yesterday before Starmer's speech. An election means purdah for both Johnson and Starmer. I am not sure that six weeks of Johnson campaigning from a fridge against Starmer will look as good as Johnson campaigning from a fridge against a leaderless Labour Party or Jeremy Corbyn, which I guess is much the same thing.

    Johnson does have a USP. Vote Conservative get Johnson, vote Labour get anyone but Starmer. Although that certainty may not be the vote winner it once was.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,700

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    Alternatively it shows the Mail, hateful rag though it is, is populist and has its finger on the pulse and goes after whatever its readers want.

    They're not leading the public, they're generally following it and recognising what its section of the public wants to hear.
    The public wants to hear about 500 things which cause cancer?
    Sadly, you're probably right.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 30,849
    The difference between Labour polling 39% in one poll, and 36% in the next, and between the Conservatives polling 33% and 35% is margin of error.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464
    Jonathan said:

    I've just seen photos, but Charles looked very sad. How was it? A sombre occasion?

    I suspect both he and William are very worried about their mother but frankly it hardly inspired and needs to be slimmed down and maybe military uniforms dispensed with
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    Not me. I've only put in a couple of comments on Beergate, and have been off the site for a few weeks.
    Apologies, it was @Wulfrun_Phil

    The capital W confused me. I probably need to go sit by the pool and drink Raki
    Are you in Greece ?
    Turkish Aegean, but heading for Greece next
    Aha - whereabouts to ?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 2,424

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    I have great respect for the Queen and her traditions but that period of our history is coming to an end, and change will happen with demands for a lot smaller royal family and I have little doubt William and Kate will further modernise it with a lot less pomp and circumstance in the future

    It is inevitable
    I entirely agree. The Queen has been a wonderful servant for this country, but as her time comes to an end we have to Stop and Think about what we want going forward.
    For a start, I expect Charles to declare soon after accession an age that he won't serve as King beyond - maybe 85 or 10 years after accession, whichever comes last.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 13,878

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    I have great respect for the Queen and her traditions but that period of our history is coming to an end, and change will happen with demands for a lot smaller royal family and I have little doubt William and Kate will further modernise it with a lot less pomp and circumstance in the future

    It is inevitable
    With his wealth and expected future advances in healthcare it is quite possible Charles lives til about 2070......
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 136
    ping said:

    Nothing meaningful on cost of living in the QS

    The government can not make costs disappear. All the government can do is move costs from consumers to taxpayers and taxation is already at an historically high level. Responsibility for influencing inflation is with the independent Bank of England, but they can only have a marginal affect. Supply and demand will resolve the situation in the longer term.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    edited May 10
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    A necessary condition for a peace agreement must surely be the repatriation of the huge number of abducted Ukrainians ?

    Russia has deported more than 1,185 million people from Ukraine, including 200,000 children, since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, says Ombudswoman Lyudmila Denisova
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1523947789872418817

    Nazi Germany was fond of stealing blond Eastern European kids, as well...

    Putin's Russia is a global abomination. I do not see how we can ever make a compromised peace with it, whatever Macron says
    The other comparison is of course Stalin, who forcibly displaced millions for his political ends.
    Fellow mass murderer Putin would probably be flattered by it.
    I wonder if there is some deep, mysterious historical law, which says countries traumatised by war end up inflicting a version of that trauma on others

    Israel springs to mind. Its treatment of Palestinians can sometimes resemble the Nazi treatment of Jews. Obviously not anywhere near as grotesque and evil - but there ARE echoes

    Now we have Russia behaving like Nazi Germany in eastern Europe and Russia in WW2?

    Hmm. Man hands on misery to man.....
    Partly that, perhaps - but modern Russia has visited great brutality on occupied lands long before Hitler came on the scene.
    Well over a million Ukrainians died in their fight for independence after the First World War, for example. And a decade on, the Holodomor.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,365
    Sean_F said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    Oh come off it.

    I'm a republican but lets be honest, all states have their own Pomp and Circumstance in such ceremonies.

    The Americans have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance with the President's equivalent State of the Union speech and other set pieces.

    The French have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance too in their Presidential set pieces.

    Of all the reasons to be a republican, the lack of Pomp and Circumstance in republics is not one of them.
    The French surround their President with as much pomp as any monarch, and he is the head of France's main chivalric order.
    Yes, they aspire to be a presidential monarchy. And Macron literally lives in a palace


    I don't see the point in having a monarchy unless you get the Pomp and Circumstance. I don't want King William to turn up for the Opening of Parliament on an e-scooter, in a hoody

    Royalty is meant to brighten the day with horses and swords and carriages and crowns. It is theatre. It is MEANT to be a bit silly and different and charmingly archaic, while also knitting modern Britons back into our incredible history, because there is such a density of symbolism, speaking of different eras and epochs. Like the symbolic hunt for explosives under the Commons!

    I love it. If you get rid of all that we might as well have a cheap, tedious euro-style president

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412
    edited May 10
    Some very obvious condescension dripping from Charles's delivery of that speech, which I found quite funny. I think he's an SDP voter in his soul, which Thatch angrily considered that his mother was.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,576
    Just seen the proposals to use d'Hondt in Wales.

    I approve. A simple system that delivers proportionality (when each constituency has enough seats).

    Way, way better than STV.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464

    Some very obvious condescension dripping from Charles's delivery of that speech, which I found quite funny. I think he's an SDP voter in his soul, as Thatch said his mother was.

    Green surely?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,365

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    Not me. I've only put in a couple of comments on Beergate, and have been off the site for a few weeks.
    Apologies, it was @Wulfrun_Phil

    The capital W confused me. I probably need to go sit by the pool and drink Raki
    Are you in Greece ?
    Turkish Aegean, but heading for Greece next
    Aha - whereabouts to ?
    Samos, then up to the north: Epirus (one of my favourite bits)
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    Not me. I've only put in a couple of comments on Beergate, and have been off the site for a few weeks.
    Apologies, it was @Wulfrun_Phil

    The capital W confused me. I probably need to go sit by the pool and drink Raki
    Are you in Greece ?
    Turkish Aegean, but heading for Greece next
    Aha - whereabouts to ?
    Samos, then up to the north: Epirus (one of my favourite bits)
    Ah Epirus - beautiful gorges. Samos - beautiful greenery.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412

    Some very obvious condescension dripping from Charles's delivery of that speech, which I found quite funny. I think he's an SDP voter in his soul, as Thatch said his mother was.

    Green surely?
    That's a point, but I expect their non-environmental stances would be a bit too radical for him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,365

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    Not me. I've only put in a couple of comments on Beergate, and have been off the site for a few weeks.
    Apologies, it was @Wulfrun_Phil

    The capital W confused me. I probably need to go sit by the pool and drink Raki
    Are you in Greece ?
    Turkish Aegean, but heading for Greece next
    Aha - whereabouts to ?
    Samos, then up to the north: Epirus (one of my favourite bits)
    Ah Epirus - beautiful gorges. Samos - beautiful greenery.
    Vikos! Zagoriou! Ioannina!

    Byron loved it. For good reason
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 40,636
    edited May 10

    Just seen the proposals to use d'Hondt in Wales.

    I approve. A simple system that delivers proportionality (when each constituency has enough seats).

    Way, way better than STV.

    Interesting quirk about the British-administered Northern Ireland election:

    In no less than 12 of 18 of the five-seat constituencies, the top 5 first-preference candidates were elected.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,576

    Some very obvious condescension dripping from Charles's delivery of that speech, which I found quite funny. I think he's an SDP voter in his soul, which Thatch angrily considered that his mother was.

    A hostage video from the Palace of Westminster.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,632
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    Oh come off it.

    I'm a republican but lets be honest, all states have their own Pomp and Circumstance in such ceremonies.

    The Americans have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance with the President's equivalent State of the Union speech and other set pieces.

    The French have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance too in their Presidential set pieces.

    Of all the reasons to be a republican, the lack of Pomp and Circumstance in republics is not one of them.
    The French surround their President with as much pomp as any monarch, and he is the head of France's main chivalric order.
    Yes, they aspire to be a presidential monarchy. And Macron literally lives in a palace


    I don't see the point in having a monarchy unless you get the Pomp and Circumstance. I don't want King William to turn up for the Opening of Parliament on an e-scooter, in a hoody

    Royalty is meant to brighten the day with horses and swords and carriages and crowns. It is theatre. It is MEANT to be a bit silly and different and charmingly archaic, while also knitting modern Britons back into our incredible history, because there is such a density of symbolism, speaking of different eras and epochs. Like the symbolic hunt for explosives under the Commons!

    I love it. If you get rid of all that we might as well have a cheap, tedious euro-style president


    The genius of our constitutional monarchy is that it takes the worst aspects of celebrity out of the political process. The PM should be dull, smart and effective. They can be ugly and grey and out of Hello magazine.

    That's the idea at least and one reason why Boris is such a bad fit for the role.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 1,955
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Thus confirming the absurd level of influence of the Mail - yet again.

    The Mail's campaign against Johnson lasted from Paterson, through sleaze and Partygate, up to the Ukraine War, and took in two separate editors. During that period the Labour lead was strong most of the time.

    The Mail only turned on Starmer two weeks ago, properly for the first time. Now look what happens.

    But in the last thread you told us that this was all great for Labour and the Tories were running scared?

    Confused now
    That was about yesterday's news, not last week's, though.
    Check the dates for the fieldwork,
    Before keir appointed himself the integritron but also mainly before the plod announced they were investigating the integritron
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464
    On topic these are the actual yougov figures and I did not realise labour dropped 3% and conservatives increased 2%

    It does make the next few polls interesting to see the trend

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 May)

    Lab: 36% (-3 from 26-27 Apr)
    Con: 35% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 10% (-1)
    Green: 8% (+2)
    SNP: 5% (n/c)
    Reform UK: 4% (+1)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 40,636

    On topic these are the actual yougov figures and I did not realise labour dropped 3% and conservatives increased 2%

    It does make the next few polls interesting to see the trend

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 May)

    Lab: 36% (-3 from 26-27 Apr)
    Con: 35% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 10% (-1)
    Green: 8% (+2)
    SNP: 5% (n/c)
    Reform UK: 4% (+1)

    Cue Sunil announcing it's been FIVE Months and 4 days since the last Tory poll lead!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,236

    Just seen the proposals to use d'Hondt in Wales.

    I approve. A simple system that delivers proportionality (when each constituency has enough seats).

    Way, way better than STV.

    A the danger of starting down a rabbit hole, I wholly disagree. D'Hondt gives far too much power to parties, and too little to voters. Simplicity isn't itself a virtue.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 2,424
    Cookie said:

    Just seen the proposals to use d'Hondt in Wales.

    I approve. A simple system that delivers proportionality (when each constituency has enough seats).

    Way, way better than STV.

    A the danger of starting down a rabbit hole, I wholly disagree. D'Hondt gives far too much power to parties, and too little to voters. Simplicity isn't itself a virtue.
    If simplicity is a virtue, stick with FPTP...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 1,955

    On topic these are the actual yougov figures and I did not realise labour dropped 3% and conservatives increased 2%

    It does make the next few polls interesting to see the trend

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 May)

    Lab: 36% (-3 from 26-27 Apr)
    Con: 35% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 10% (-1)
    Green: 8% (+2)
    SNP: 5% (n/c)
    Reform UK: 4% (+1)

    Reforms 4% might be crucial in a close election, they won't be fielding a full slate, if even half and I seriously doubt they'd get 4% nationally in a GE anyway. They are the NOTA/Brexit option and in the booth choices will be made
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,191
    edited May 10

    Just seen the proposals to use d'Hondt in Wales.

    I approve. A simple system that delivers proportionality (when each constituency has enough seats).

    Way, way better than STV.

    Interesting quirk about the British-administered Northern Ireland election:

    In no less than 12 of 18 of the five-seat constituencies, the top 5 first-preference candidates were elected.
    it's not a quirk, that's what generally happens in the majority of constituencies. I saw an analysis of the Republic elections over the last few years and that was invariably the case.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464

    On topic these are the actual yougov figures and I did not realise labour dropped 3% and conservatives increased 2%

    It does make the next few polls interesting to see the trend

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 May)

    Lab: 36% (-3 from 26-27 Apr)
    Con: 35% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 10% (-1)
    Green: 8% (+2)
    SNP: 5% (n/c)
    Reform UK: 4% (+1)

    Cue Sunil announcing it's been FIVE Months and 4 days since the last Tory poll lead!
    I just realised that these figures are from the 5th to the 6th May so do not include the last few days
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,365
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    Oh come off it.

    I'm a republican but lets be honest, all states have their own Pomp and Circumstance in such ceremonies.

    The Americans have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance with the President's equivalent State of the Union speech and other set pieces.

    The French have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance too in their Presidential set pieces.

    Of all the reasons to be a republican, the lack of Pomp and Circumstance in republics is not one of them.
    The French surround their President with as much pomp as any monarch, and he is the head of France's main chivalric order.
    Yes, they aspire to be a presidential monarchy. And Macron literally lives in a palace


    I don't see the point in having a monarchy unless you get the Pomp and Circumstance. I don't want King William to turn up for the Opening of Parliament on an e-scooter, in a hoody

    Royalty is meant to brighten the day with horses and swords and carriages and crowns. It is theatre. It is MEANT to be a bit silly and different and charmingly archaic, while also knitting modern Britons back into our incredible history, because there is such a density of symbolism, speaking of different eras and epochs. Like the symbolic hunt for explosives under the Commons!

    I love it. If you get rid of all that we might as well have a cheap, tedious euro-style president


    The genius of our constitutional monarchy is that it takes the worst aspects of celebrity out of the political process. The PM should be dull, smart and effective. They can be ugly and grey and out of Hello magazine.

    That's the idea at least and one reason why Boris is such a bad fit for the role.
    It’s also why Boris made an excellent London mayor and Sadiq Khan is so poor. The mayor is a figurehead. A kind of flamboyant monarch boosting the city, but without that much serious power or responsibility. Perfect role for Boris
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 40,636

    Just seen the proposals to use d'Hondt in Wales.

    I approve. A simple system that delivers proportionality (when each constituency has enough seats).

    Way, way better than STV.

    Interesting quirk about the British-administered Northern Ireland election:

    In no less than 12 of 18 of the five-seat constituencies, the top 5 first-preference candidates were elected.
    it's not a quirk, that's what generally matters in the majority of constituencies. I saw an analysis of the Republic elections over the last few years and that was invariably the case.
    So why bother with STV?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,191
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    Oh come off it.

    I'm a republican but lets be honest, all states have their own Pomp and Circumstance in such ceremonies.

    The Americans have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance with the President's equivalent State of the Union speech and other set pieces.

    The French have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance too in their Presidential set pieces.

    Of all the reasons to be a republican, the lack of Pomp and Circumstance in republics is not one of them.
    The French surround their President with as much pomp as any monarch, and he is the head of France's main chivalric order.
    Yes, they aspire to be a presidential monarchy. And Macron literally lives in a palace


    I don't see the point in having a monarchy unless you get the Pomp and Circumstance. I don't want King William to turn up for the Opening of Parliament on an e-scooter, in a hoody

    Royalty is meant to brighten the day with horses and swords and carriages and crowns. It is theatre. It is MEANT to be a bit silly and different and charmingly archaic, while also knitting modern Britons back into our incredible history, because there is such a density of symbolism, speaking of different eras and epochs. Like the symbolic hunt for explosives under the Commons!

    I love it. If you get rid of all that we might as well have a cheap, tedious euro-style president


    The genius of our constitutional monarchy is that it takes the worst aspects of celebrity out of the political process. The PM should be dull, smart and effective. They can be ugly and grey and out of Hello magazine.

    That's the idea at least and one reason why Boris is such a bad fit for the role.
    he is ugly, though.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,198

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    The spell is definitely broken without Brenda. It becomes immediately apparent how banal and outdated the institution is.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 3,530
    .
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    We've now got some embarrassed looking guy in a really silly costume sitting in the back of a huge car thats all windows with a hat having the national anthem played to him.

    If it upsets you so much why watch it
    Upsets? Amuses! There is something profoundly silly about Pomp and Circumstance when it comes to the royal bit of the state.
    Oh come off it.

    I'm a republican but lets be honest, all states have their own Pomp and Circumstance in such ceremonies.

    The Americans have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance with the President's equivalent State of the Union speech and other set pieces.

    The French have plenty of Pomp and Circumstance too in their Presidential set pieces.

    Of all the reasons to be a republican, the lack of Pomp and Circumstance in republics is not one of them.
    The French surround their President with as much pomp as any monarch, and he is the head of France's main chivalric order.
    Yes, they aspire to be a presidential monarchy. And Macron literally lives in a palace


    I don't see the point in having a monarchy unless you get the Pomp and Circumstance. I don't want King William to turn up for the Opening of Parliament on an e-scooter, in a hoody

    Royalty is meant to brighten the day with horses and swords and carriages and crowns. It is theatre. It is MEANT to be a bit silly and different and charmingly archaic, while also knitting modern Britons back into our incredible history, because there is such a density of symbolism, speaking of different eras and epochs. Like the symbolic hunt for explosives under the Commons!

    I love it. If you get rid of all that we might as well have a cheap, tedious euro-style president


    The genius of our constitutional monarchy is that it takes the worst aspects of celebrity out of the political process. The PM should be dull, smart and effective. They can be ugly and grey and out of Hello magazine.

    That's the idea at least and one reason why Boris is such a bad fit for the role.
    Except that ugly and grey politicians don't win elections.

    Except for Major but he was against the windbag.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,236

    Just seen the proposals to use d'Hondt in Wales.

    I approve. A simple system that delivers proportionality (when each constituency has enough seats).

    Way, way better than STV.

    Interesting quirk about the British-administered Northern Ireland election:

    In no less than 12 of 18 of the five-seat constituencies, the top 5 first-preference candidates were elected.
    it's not a quirk, that's what generally matters in the majority of constituencies. I saw an analysis of the Republic elections over the last few years and that was invariably the case.
    So why bother with STV?
    Well for the reason that in the other 6 they were not.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 552

    On topic these are the actual yougov figures and I did not realise labour dropped 3% and conservatives increased 2%

    It does make the next few polls interesting to see the trend

    Latest Westminster voting intention (5-6 May)

    Lab: 36% (-3 from 26-27 Apr)
    Con: 35% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 10% (-1)
    Green: 8% (+2)
    SNP: 5% (n/c)
    Reform UK: 4% (+1)

    Reforms 4% might be crucial in a close election, they won't be fielding a full slate, if even half and I seriously doubt they'd get 4% nationally in a GE anyway. They are the NOTA/Brexit option and in the booth choices will be made
    Its funny Tice said on radio on Sunday he fully expects to field 600 plus at GE.

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,191

    Just seen the proposals to use d'Hondt in Wales.

    I approve. A simple system that delivers proportionality (when each constituency has enough seats).

    Way, way better than STV.

    So just like now, the parties decide the order and the voter has no say.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 2,424
    Three words for republicans:

    President Boris Johnson.
This discussion has been closed.