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Partial turnout data does more harm than good – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Don't you talk to me about free ******* trees.

    I am currently in dispute with the Community Council who want to plant a wood of hazel and hawthorn trees on the pleasant Duchy of Lancaster paddock in front of Castell Mexicanpete.

    I note the the tree hugger behind this project hasn't volunteered for a ******* forest to be planted outside his house.

    Should this come to pass, I will take my 150 trees and replant them on Drakeford's front lawn. We'll see how much he likes trees then.
  • BJO is gutted that Labour once again knows how to do politics.

    He’s clearly forgotten the most successful pact of all time in 1997.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Yes though nobody has yet told us to go to Llanrwst for our tree
    You can buy a 1 year old native whip for about a pound. The rabbit guard costs more.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    BJO is gutted that Labour once again knows how to do politics.

    He’s clearly forgotten the most successful pact of all time in 1997.

    Clearly the Lib Dems have given labour stiffed them as soon as they didn’t need them
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828
    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Today’s deranged Mail on Sunday splash on an informal Lab/LD pact and Oliver Dowden’s hysterical letter to Keir Starmer on the back of it could normally be seen as nothing more than ridiculous. However, now that the government controls the Electoral Commission and, therefore, the conduct of elections in this country, it all gets a lot more sinister.

    What makes you claim that the Tories control the Electoral Commission?
    Gove has taken control and is driving the elections bill changes that will take the Election Commission partially, at least, out of cross party scrutiny. It is not the Conservatives (that was my interpretation as they are in Government, and look to be in Government for a good number of years) so much as the Party of Government that control changes to party advantage.

    The assumption by the Conservatives is that they cannot, and should not, be allowed to lose General Elections. If they do ever lose, the Party of Jeremy Corbyn could then own the Electoral Commission.
    My reading of the Bill is that it will continue to be scrutinised by the Speaker's committee, which appears to be cross-party in its membership. I don't see any reference to that sort of oversight being removed.
    The Tories will just ignore the HoL. The HoL is much weaker than HoC. Vide the Borders Bill - they can try three times but that's it.
    I'm reading the Bill that came from the commons, which I assume is the form in which it passed.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Red Alert: Dispatch from the Red Wall ahead of elections this week - a seat the Tories won just 12 months ago #northeast #Hartlepool

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18425956/boris-johnson-hartlepool-local-elections/

    Mmm, but it's one of those "theme" articles with six people quoted, all supporting the theme, and no polling. I don't believe that the entire population of Hartlepool feel the same way on anything. "Go and find some unhappy voters and write an article about them" is the underlying instruction for this sort of thing.

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the elections in Hartlepool do show a swing back towards Labour, like most places.
    Pretty useless article. The voters they spoke to aren’t switchers in 2019 which makes the findings irrelevant. It is people that switched who will decide how this seat goes next time.

    It is the Sun though, what can we expect
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    .
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    A thread on Ukraine’s use of small commercial drones to drop improvised small bombs.
    https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1520561969153073153

    This is quite scary stuff beyond its immediate context. For well under £1m, a non state actor could have a swarm of 1000 of the small drones each carrying one of the antipersonnel grenades…

    Indeed. The thread is making it clear that this sort of thing had been already happening in the Middle East (depending on how one defines a 'state', of course).
    Yes, in a sporadic and uncoordinated manner.
    I was just imagining what a well programmed swarm of several hundred might do, and didn’t enjoy the idea at all.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Moonshine, that assumes the leader of Russia is rational.

    Mr. Z, I believe fish and chips, which are superb, were created here by migrants who were Jewish. So, we're closer to getting them from Zelensky than Putin...

    The rationality of Russia’s next leader has no bearing on the hard economic future awaiting his country. They’re not going to be capable of affording such a huge nuclear arsenal, which is highly likely already degraded to a functional use far below the headline number. They’re going to have to cut deals when this is done. Stranger things have happened than imagining a NATO - Russia defence pact by around 2030 with an eye on the Pacific.
  • https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1520670734389030913

    #OTD 1997. Election. Landslide. Labour win 418 seats giving Tony Blair a majority of 179.

    In their worst election defeat since 1906, the Conservatives retain just 165 MPs, with their smallest share of the vote since 1832.

    Thread on the end of the Conservative Era 👇

    In time, we will get back to that
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    IshmaelZ said:

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Have you any idea how cheap small native broadleaf trees are? I don't know where mach or your start point are, but you could probably get 50 delivered for the cost of the fuel.
    It is a tree purchased by Lee Waters, who knows nothing about arboriculture or anything else.

    So, it will be quite costly. And he will be buying ~ 2 million of them, one for ever household in Wales.

    So, very costly.

    (I can get hazel / sycamore / beech /walnut trees to germinate for free already in my garden).
    When I let the grass run fallow over autumn and winter the lawn is awash with sycamore saplings. I am quite prepared to pot them and pass them on to Mr Drakeford for just the purchase cost of the single use non-recyclable plastic pots.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,851
    OT:
    Just watched the old black and white comedy film "The Chiltern Hundreds" on Talking pictures tv, quite apt in the present climate.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Can't help thinking it may have been a good day for the government to put up a female minister on the Sunday shows.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/kwasi-kwarteng-denies-misogyny-culture-westminster_uk_626bf594e4b029505df1bed2


    The fact they don't trust any female minister to appear on TV without making things worse speaks volumes about the quality of BoZo's cabinet
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1520670734389030913

    #OTD 1997. Election. Landslide. Labour win 418 seats giving Tony Blair a majority of 179.

    In their worst election defeat since 1906, the Conservatives retain just 165 MPs, with their smallest share of the vote since 1832.

    Thread on the end of the Conservative Era 👇

    In time, we will get back to that

    Do you really believe they intend to allow that to ever happen again? Complacent failure to gerrymander left them with such meagre pickings. Once bitten, twice shy
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    Scott_xP said:

    Can't help thinking it may have been a good day for the government to put up a female minister on the Sunday shows.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/kwasi-kwarteng-denies-misogyny-culture-westminster_uk_626bf594e4b029505df1bed2


    The fact they don't trust any female minister to appear on TV without making things worse speaks volumes about the quality of BoZo's cabinet

    The "people behave badly because they work long hours" thing is such nonsense. I've worked long hours all my life, but it doesn't change my personality (for good or ill), and I don't believe it changes anyone else either. At most, it might make people less careful not to expose their inclinations.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Scott_xP said:

    Can't help thinking it may have been a good day for the government to put up a female minister on the Sunday shows.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/kwasi-kwarteng-denies-misogyny-culture-westminster_uk_626bf594e4b029505df1bed2


    The fact they don't trust any female minister to appear on TV without making things worse speaks volumes about the quality of BoZo's cabinet

    The "people behave badly because they work long hours" thing is such nonsense. I've worked long hours all my life, but it doesn't change my personality (for good or ill), and I don't believe it changes anyone else either. At most, it might make people less careful not to expose their inclinations.
    Well said Nick
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    IshmaelZ said:

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Have you any idea how cheap small native broadleaf trees are? I don't know where mach or your start point are, but you could probably get 50 delivered for the cost of the fuel.
    It is a tree purchased by Lee Waters, who knows nothing about arboriculture or anything else.

    So, it will be quite costly. And he will be buying ~ 2 million of them, one for ever household in Wales.

    So, very costly.

    (I can get hazel / sycamore / beech /walnut trees to germinate for free already in my garden).
    When I let the grass run fallow over autumn and winter the lawn is awash with sycamore saplings. I am quite prepared to pot them and pass them on to Mr Drakeford for just the purchase cost of the single use non-recyclable plastic pots.
    Sycamore is basically a weed. It grows anywhere.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    rcs1000 said:

    ClippP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In 2018 Labour stood in 98% of Council seats.

    In 2022 Labour stands in 61% of seats

    In the South West of England
    And... ummm... how many councils have elections in the South West of England this year?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    Plymouth, Exeter and then Somerset.
    My point is that @bigjohnowls was suggesting that the Labour Party was not standing in huge swathes of the country. When we're actually talking about a few council wards in the South West.

    It's also not like-with-like: in 2018 there was no Somerset,.
    You aren't listening properly. Kier Starmer is a Bad Man. And must be defeated. Only by electing Tories can we look forward the the day when we get a Labour government.
    The dominant mood at the moment seems to be anti-Tory voting. I don't know many people who claim to be wildly enthused by Labour or the LibDems, but I know loads who intend to send a warning shot to the Tories on Thursday, including plenty of traditional Conservatives. That means we should keep two things in mind:

    * A bad night for the Tories doesn't necessarily tell us they'll lose the next election (although a good night in current circs would be impressive for them and certainly lock Johnson into Number 10)
    * Comparing Lab, LibDem and Green results for "best opposition party" won't tell us much. Tactical voting is everywhere.

    Basically, there are precious few Councillors who are hard-working & with basic common sense ... so IMO you should vote for a good Councillor pretty much irrespective of party label.

    Their views on Palestine or Ukraine or capitalism or socialism are virtually irrelevant at the Council level.

    (I voted Independent).
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796
    Spoke to my parents who in their mid 70s have clearly enjoyed* their first STV election. They both voted for me (poor fools) but then appear to have voted randomly down the ballot. LibDem 1 SNP 2 Tory 3 anyone?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    edited May 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng tells @RidgeOnSunday that Boris Johnson’s position is safe: “I don’t think his leadership’s under threat at all - what he’s delivered is a remarkable series of successes.”
    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1520670067662458882

    Did Kwarteng do his PR training in Moscow?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Don't you talk to me about free ******* trees.

    I am currently in dispute with the Community Council who want to plant a wood of hazel and hawthorn trees on the pleasant Duchy of Lancaster paddock in front of Castell Mexicanpete.

    I note the the tree hugger behind this project hasn't volunteered for a ******* forest to be planted outside his house.

    Should this come to pass, I will take my 150 trees and replant them on Drakeford's front lawn. We'll see how much he likes trees then.
    If it's a wildflower meadow you could campaign to have it designated a SSSI? They are about the most endangered habitat in the UK.

    The tree obsession can be counterproductive. I think there should be more focus on reinstating wetlands in particular, and the John Muir Trust do a good job of explaining what a highland glen could look like with all things in combination.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Yesterday I was in Hillingdon, in Boris Johnson’s constituency, and @DavidCollinsST was in Bolton - the last Tory-run borough in Gtr. Manchester, with our ears to the ground ahead of the local elections.

    Here’s what people were saying:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4e2361e0-c8b8-11ec-aec3-018778242ce9?shareToken=ff50ab85c53535b4d06a76f8cb163112
  • https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1520670734389030913

    #OTD 1997. Election. Landslide. Labour win 418 seats giving Tony Blair a majority of 179.

    In their worst election defeat since 1906, the Conservatives retain just 165 MPs, with their smallest share of the vote since 1832.

    Thread on the end of the Conservative Era 👇

    In time, we will get back to that

    Do you really believe they intend to allow that to ever happen again? Complacent failure to gerrymander left them with such meagre pickings. Once bitten, twice shy
    Johnson is doing it for Labour. I’d like to thank his service.

    Just as I was ahead of the curve on Labour well over a year ago, I wonder now if we should discuss the possibility of a Labour landslide.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    Today’s deranged Mail on Sunday splash on an informal Lab/LD pact and Oliver Dowden’s hysterical letter to Keir Starmer on the back of it could normally be seen as nothing more than ridiculous. However, now that the government controls the Electoral Commission and, therefore, the conduct of elections in this country, it all gets a lot more sinister.

    Only in your own fevered brain
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:



    As ever, fog of war, rumours, etc, etc.

    I know it's awful but I find the news about Ukraine a switch-off, even more so the relish with which a certain type of armchair expert repeatedly posts on here about it.

    It's awful. It's messy. It's protracted. There's nothing else we need to know.
    Speak for yourself.
    An unkind person might say something similar about your posts.

    A few short weeks ago they were demanding NATO intervention and no fly zones.
    Well I still think we should have heeded Zelensky's demand for a NFZ but that was just a POV.

    I've never advocated NATO intervention as such.

    I accept this is avoidance but tbh the war in Ukraine could drag on for years. As it has in Kashmir, Yemen, Tigray and countless other places around the world.
    A no fly zone would be, effectively, NATO intervention.

    It does look, sadly, like we are in for the long haul.
    That is the big question.
    If the Russian invasion isn’t defeated this year, then it will affect all our lives far more than say Brexit. Energy costs alone will do to this decade what the oil crisis did to the 70s.
    And we’re unlikely to break Russia economically any time soon - their oil and gas revenues so far this year are considerably higher than they were last. Volumes might be down, but higher prices have more than compensated even though they have to discount to the world market to sell the stuff.
    I feel like these two things are kind of at odds with each other. If sanctions don't significantly reduce Russian oil production, don't oil prices go back to normal? I mean, there's some efficiency loss whereby the EU can't buy oil by most efficient route and Russia can't sell it by the most efficient route, but presumably that mostly settles down over time as people readjust?
    Not necessarily. Their export volumes could be halved, and their revenues still be higher than they were a year or so back.
    Oil can fairly easily be redirected; gas isn’t so easy, as the pipeline to other destinations than Europe are limited.
    Sanctions will slowly degrade production volumes as they’re not self sufficient in production equipment and engineering.

    And remember worldwide demand will rise for most of this decade.
    Russia is already down about a million bbl a day at wellhead. Most of that is probably permanently lost production capacity, due to technical difficulty at those wells and the suddenly lost expertise and technology imports. Chinese state owned companies aren’t buying Russian oil product cargos, the private sector there is less circumspect but not much. The Turks, Baltics and Scandinavians aren’t bringing in Urals at all.

    The assumption must be that the crude making it to the world market right now is largely being consumed in the three core EU countries. And that Russian domestic storage is now close to full.

    If core EU is on the verge of formally phasing out imports of Urals crude, what then? The EU sanctions that kick in 15th May make it very difficult to impractical for Russian crude to go transoceanic at any scale. It’s reckoned there are single digit number of super tankers without an EU link that would be unaffected by the sanctions. Let’s assume 10mins bbl of capacity. And generously a 40 day return transit time to India. Unless there are unforeseen holes in the sanctions regimen, we could conceivably see as little as a million bbl a day make it to market, versus the pre war level of 5-6 million. Say some slips through, 2mln bbl. It’s still crippling.

    So what then if domestic storage is also full? Further falls of production at wellhead is the only answer. Which would almost certainly have a serious long term impact on Russia’s oil production capacity. And the assumption must surely be that medium term Europe will have pivoted away from Russian gas too.

    By the end of his Z War, Putin is going to have a shell of a conventional army, his core export industry of hydrocarbons will be bust and Russia’s demographics will look even worse. But it will still have an extortionately expensive nuclear arsenal to maintain. Feels to me the next Presidents of the US and Russia are going to be on Time Magazine’s cover shaking hands on a historic multi lateral disarmament deal. Hard to see another outcome.
    I don’t have a sufficient knowledge of the industry to challenge all those assumptions, but I’m not sure the picture is quite as good as that ?
    While I agree that in the medium term this is likely to be economically disastrous for Russia, what matters for the rest of us is how long they can sustain confrontation with the rest of the world.

    These figures don’t suggest China has stopped taking Russian oil ?
    Though granted the sanctions regime will be very different in a month’s time.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/27/russia-doubles-fossil-fuel-revenues-since-invasion-of-ukraine-began
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    edited May 2022
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Have you any idea how cheap small native broadleaf trees are? I don't know where mach or your start point are, but you could probably get 50 delivered for the cost of the fuel.
    The old trees on our housing estate are increasingly dying off or too big (1960s planting) or cleared for hard standing for cars. Bad news for the birds, fewer blackbirds around these days.

    We've got some old cherries dying, ourselves, but rowans, birch and hawthorn have selfseeded so we've transplanted and got some replacements coming on well in the way of even free-er trees ... the old trees are being eyed by a local woodworker, and the neighbour will use the branches in his solid fuel stove.
    What would the carbon footprint be of picking up a tree? Got to be more than the tree will ever save.

    Here in the Flatlands the mayor has a target of 1m trees to be planted. She knows absolutely nothing about biodiversity, indeed she wanted all the sheep and cows removed from the entrance to town because it 'made the place look like a rural backwater', even though grazing is a very effective management for certain habitats.

    She also doesn't seem to appreciate that not all trees are good. Two of our local habitats (dry heath and lowland bog) are rare or very rare and rather than adding trees, most of the management needed is tree removal.

    But targets are targets...

  • Interesting article in the Times.

    Higher the affluence, the more likely people seem to be pissed off and staying at home.

    Which is a big problem for the Tories. As that is how Labour won so decisively in 1997.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Britain accused of being ‘more evil’ than US and stealing ‘Russian’ invention of fish and chips
    Andrei Isayev, a pro-Kremlin politician, said Britain had ‘never been a real ally to Russia’ during an impassioned tirade on state TV

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/01/britain-accused-evil-us-stealing-russian-invention-fish-chips/

    Slightly weird

    "Slightly"? The whole country is having a massive nervous breakdown.
    First borscht, now fish and chips ?
    Cultural insecurity turned pathological.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Taz said:

    BJO is gutted that Labour once again knows how to do politics.

    He’s clearly forgotten the most successful pact of all time in 1997.

    Clearly the Lib Dems have given labour stiffed them as soon as they didn’t need them
    While that's true, Labour had the benefit of a huge majority. The Tories relied on the LibDems 2010-15, but targeted them in the 2015 GE. Without gaining LD seats Cameron wouldn't have had his 2015 majority.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Have you any idea how cheap small native broadleaf trees are? I don't know where mach or your start point are, but you could probably get 50 delivered for the cost of the fuel.
    The old trees on our housing estate are increasingly dying off or too big (1960s planting) or cleared for hard standing for cars. Bad news for the birds, fewer blackbirds around these days.

    We've got some old cherries dying, ourselves, but rowans, birch and hawthorn have selfseeded so we've transplanted and got some replacements coming on well in the way of even free-er trees ... the old trees are being eyed by a local woodworker, and the neighbour will use the branches in his solid fuel stove.
    We have 3 stoves (2 houses). I have never bought wood. All has been recovered from dead, fallen or pruned trees in my or my neighbours gardens. I am lucky I have space to season the wood. The last storm has provided me with 2 years supply of fir, ash and walnut. I already had 2 years seasoned supply of apple, fir, ash and oak. So sorted for 4 years, by which time more will be forthcoming. The ash always drops some big branches and I have many of them of which 4 are very big.
  • The Daily Mail says there is a war on when Johnson is given a cake.

    Yet they seem very concerned when Starmer legally drinks a beer.

    Idk but I’m starting to get the sense the Mail is a bit dishonest
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Britain accused of being ‘more evil’ than US and stealing ‘Russian’ invention of fish and chips
    Andrei Isayev, a pro-Kremlin politician, said Britain had ‘never been a real ally to Russia’ during an impassioned tirade on state TV

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/01/britain-accused-evil-us-stealing-russian-invention-fish-chips/

    Slightly weird

    "Slightly"? The whole country is having a massive nervous breakdown.
    It's certainly weird. Because we think of Russia as monolithic with every utterance pre-cleared by censors, we tend to seize on anyone saying anything peculiar, even random backbenchers like this guy, who sounds like a George Galloway sort of figure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Isayev ). Similarly, if a random TV commentator says something apparently off-message, we wonder if it's kite-flying and a precursor to a big policy change.

    Obviously it could be. But my impression is that Russian politics and media are full of broadly pro-regime people, often not very talented, keen to make an impact without rocking the boat. They self-censor but don't get their comments pre-approved, and occasionally someone strays too far and gets into trouble. There are hundreds of people expressing opinions every day, but unless a clear recurring theme appears they don't mean much more than a British borough councillor sounding off on PB (glances in mirror). I'm not convinced that there is much of a nervous breakdown going on in Russia - more a climate of complacency mingled with creeping unease.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Don't you talk to me about free ******* trees.

    I am currently in dispute with the Community Council who want to plant a wood of hazel and hawthorn trees on the pleasant Duchy of Lancaster paddock in front of Castell Mexicanpete.

    I note the the tree hugger behind this project hasn't volunteered for a ******* forest to be planted outside his house.

    Should this come to pass, I will take my 150 trees and replant them on Drakeford's front lawn. We'll see how much he likes trees then.
    Labour has form with this sort of thing


    https://houseandheritage.org/tag/manny-shinwell/
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,851
    Taz said:

    BJO is gutted that Labour once again knows how to do politics.

    He’s clearly forgotten the most successful pact of all time in 1997.

    Clearly the Lib Dems have given labour stiffed them as soon as they didn’t need them
    I thought so as well at the time, but it did allow the Libdems to more than double their seats, so I suppose there was an element of a quid pro quo.

    The real stuffing occured in 2015 by the Tories when they spent the previous year in many libdem seats actively working against the incumbent by Osbourn and Cameron's mob. So much for the Coalition. I was conned into voting Tory in my constituency to support the coalition and maintain a Tory MP. Because of this I will never vote Tory again.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,638

    Spoke to my parents who in their mid 70s have clearly enjoyed* their first STV election. They both voted for me (poor fools) but then appear to have voted randomly down the ballot. LibDem 1 SNP 2 Tory 3 anyone?

    I hope you have written your victory speech 👍
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    Eabhal said:

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Don't you talk to me about free ******* trees.

    I am currently in dispute with the Community Council who want to plant a wood of hazel and hawthorn trees on the pleasant Duchy of Lancaster paddock in front of Castell Mexicanpete.

    I note the the tree hugger behind this project hasn't volunteered for a ******* forest to be planted outside his house.

    Should this come to pass, I will take my 150 trees and replant them on Drakeford's front lawn. We'll see how much he likes trees then.
    If it's a wildflower meadow you could campaign to have it designated a SSSI? They are about the most endangered habitat in the UK.

    The tree obsession can be counterproductive. I think there should be more focus on reinstating wetlands in particular, and the John Muir Trust do a good job of explaining what a highland glen could look like with all things in combination.

    Yes, as above, trees are not what we need everywhere.

    What grows in the paddock? Is it just improved grass?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    Interesting article in the Times.

    Higher the affluence, the more likely people seem to be pissed off and staying at home.

    Which is a big problem for the Tories. As that is how Labour won so decisively in 1997.

    Though in 1997 the Tories still won the most affluent AB social class even if Blair won the rest.

    Now the Tories vote is holding up best if anything with skilled working class C2s
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Britain accused of being ‘more evil’ than US and stealing ‘Russian’ invention of fish and chips
    Andrei Isayev, a pro-Kremlin politician, said Britain had ‘never been a real ally to Russia’ during an impassioned tirade on state TV

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/01/britain-accused-evil-us-stealing-russian-invention-fish-chips/

    Slightly weird

    "Slightly"? The whole country is having a massive nervous breakdown.
    It's certainly weird. Because we think of Russia as monolithic with every utterance pre-cleared by censors, we tend to seize on anyone saying anything peculiar, even random backbenchers like this guy, who sounds like a George Galloway sort of figure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Isayev ). Similarly, if a random TV commentator says something apparently off-message, we wonder if it's kite-flying and a precursor to a big policy change.

    Obviously it could be. But my impression is that Russian politics and media are full of broadly pro-regime people, often not very talented, keen to make an impact without rocking the boat. They self-censor but don't get their comments pre-approved, and occasionally someone strays too far and gets into trouble. There are hundreds of people expressing opinions every day, but unless a clear recurring theme appears they don't mean much more than a British borough councillor sounding off on PB (glances in mirror). I'm not convinced that there is much of a nervous breakdown going on in Russia - more a climate of complacency mingled with creeping unease.
    Don't think so, the matter of fact-to-joking references to all out nuclear war tend to be senior people on prime time RV - what @Dura_Ace who I believe has lived there and speaks the language called "equivalent of the One Show."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Eabhal said:

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Don't you talk to me about free ******* trees.

    I am currently in dispute with the Community Council who want to plant a wood of hazel and hawthorn trees on the pleasant Duchy of Lancaster paddock in front of Castell Mexicanpete.

    I note the the tree hugger behind this project hasn't volunteered for a ******* forest to be planted outside his house.

    Should this come to pass, I will take my 150 trees and replant them on Drakeford's front lawn. We'll see how much he likes trees then.
    If it's a wildflower meadow you could campaign to have it designated a SSSI? They are about the most endangered habitat in the UK.

    The tree obsession can be counterproductive. I think there should be more focus on reinstating wetlands in particular, and the John Muir Trust do a good job of explaining what a highland glen could look like with all things in combination.

    It's not unfortunately, but I do have a large packet of wild flower seeds...

    A great post, by the way
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    The Daily Mail says there is a war on when Johnson is given a cake.

    Yet they seem very concerned when Starmer legally drinks a beer.

    Idk but I’m starting to get the sense the Mail is a bit dishonest

    Remember they were four square behind the Second World War effort ...just not ours.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Have you any idea how cheap small native broadleaf trees are? I don't know where mach or your start point are, but you could probably get 50 delivered for the cost of the fuel.
    The old trees on our housing estate are increasingly dying off or too big (1960s planting) or cleared for hard standing for cars. Bad news for the birds, fewer blackbirds around these days.

    We've got some old cherries dying, ourselves, but rowans, birch and hawthorn have selfseeded so we've transplanted and got some replacements coming on well in the way of even free-er trees ... the old trees are being eyed by a local woodworker, and the neighbour will use the branches in his solid fuel stove.
    What would the carbon footprint be of picking up a tree? Got to be more than the tree will ever save.

    Here in the Flatlands the mayor has a target of 1m trees to be planted. She knows absolutely nothing about biodiversity, indeed she wanted all the sheep and cows removed from the entrance to town because it 'made the place look like a rural backwater', even though grazing is a very effective management for certain habitats.

    She also doesn't seem to appreciate that not all trees are good. Two of our local habitats (dry heath and lowland bog) are rare or very rare and rather than adding trees, most of the management needed is tree removal.

    But targets are targets...

    We need to find space for two trees, and no way is there any on our 'land'. A couple of years ago we cut down a silver birch, which was diseased and would have been taken out naturally if we hadn't had it culled, and if it had came down in a gale there could have been severe damage, to one or two of our house, our neighbours, other local services.
    We also have a non-native, what our predecessors thought was an ornamental tree which is dominating our garden and our two neighbours and that doesn't look two well.

    So if anyone can plant two for us, I'm happy to meet reasonable costs.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Don't you talk to me about free ******* trees.

    I am currently in dispute with the Community Council who want to plant a wood of hazel and hawthorn trees on the pleasant Duchy of Lancaster paddock in front of Castell Mexicanpete.

    I note the the tree hugger behind this project hasn't volunteered for a ******* forest to be planted outside his house.

    Should this come to pass, I will take my 150 trees and replant them on Drakeford's front lawn. We'll see how much he likes trees then.
    Labour has form with this sort of thing


    https://houseandheritage.org/tag/manny-shinwell/
    Ha, yes. That was a disgrace and it rather exposed Labour's bad side. Pure spite rather than improvement of anyone's living standards. It wasn't even as if the estate had been exploiting miners - they were decent employers by all accounts.

    There is a plan to do the place up and it has opened recently for various functions but the missing gardens are a big shame.

    Well worth a walk past though. There's quite a few amusing follies in the area, too. Not perhaps what you expect in Rotherham.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695

    Taz said:

    BJO is gutted that Labour once again knows how to do politics.

    He’s clearly forgotten the most successful pact of all time in 1997.

    Clearly the Lib Dems have given labour stiffed them as soon as they didn’t need them
    While that's true, Labour had the benefit of a huge majority. The Tories relied on the LibDems 2010-15, but targeted them in the 2015 GE. Without gaining LD seats Cameron wouldn't have had his 2015 majority.
    And that snookered Cameron as a consequence. He would have loved a controlling factor on the right wing Tories and have the LDs to blame for doing so.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    The Daily Mail says there is a war on when Johnson is given a cake.

    Yet they seem very concerned when Starmer legally drinks a beer.

    Idk but I’m starting to get the sense the Mail is a bit dishonest

    Remember they were four square behind the Second World War effort ...just not ours.
    Which is not true. The Mail flirted with fascism in the 30s…as did the Daily Mirror.

    And, anyway, it’s not only moi who thinks that it’s ludicrous to keep bringing it up

    https://amp.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley
  • On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Britain accused of being ‘more evil’ than US and stealing ‘Russian’ invention of fish and chips
    Andrei Isayev, a pro-Kremlin politician, said Britain had ‘never been a real ally to Russia’ during an impassioned tirade on state TV

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/01/britain-accused-evil-us-stealing-russian-invention-fish-chips/

    Slightly weird

    "Slightly"? The whole country is having a massive nervous breakdown.
    It's certainly weird. Because we think of Russia as monolithic with every utterance pre-cleared by censors, we tend to seize on anyone saying anything peculiar, even random backbenchers like this guy, who sounds like a George Galloway sort of figure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Isayev ). Similarly, if a random TV commentator says something apparently off-message, we wonder if it's kite-flying and a precursor to a big policy change.

    Obviously it could be. But my impression is that Russian politics and media are full of broadly pro-regime people, often not very talented, keen to make an impact without rocking the boat. They self-censor but don't get their comments pre-approved, and occasionally someone strays too far and gets into trouble. There are hundreds of people expressing opinions every day, but unless a clear recurring theme appears they don't mean much more than a British borough councillor sounding off on PB (glances in mirror). I'm not convinced that there is much of a nervous breakdown going on in Russia - more a climate of complacency mingled with creeping unease.
    Well Nick, I certainly agree that Russia is no monolith, but the pressure on those who oppose the regime is intense and often violent. Plenty of those who protested the war are still in prison. Neither are the extreme views you note expressed solely by extremists. The point I think is that even the untalented political hacks are watching the organs of state with a worried eye, which is why they are pursuaded to double down on the vile rhetoric: its safer than being seen as "soft" on the West. The regime does not mind, since it then makes them look moderate when they advocate some lesser crime instead.

    Nevertheless, the stunning blunder that Putin has made is placing Russian social stability at some risk, and as I hinted earlier there is a risk of civil unrest or even civil war in Russia. Arguably the use of Chechen troops to put down mutiny and force other units forward might be seen as the first shots in this possible civil war. When we discuss "low morale", we mean that Buryat and Chechen units are fighting each other. This time the Chechens won, but there will be a next time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Hmm. Pound's fallen quite a bit against the dollar lately.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695

    Spoke to my parents who in their mid 70s have clearly enjoyed* their first STV election. They both voted for me (poor fools) but then appear to have voted randomly down the ballot. LibDem 1 SNP 2 Tory 3 anyone?

    Are you getting worried you might win?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    Deflecting and juvenile comment
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    The Daily Mail says there is a war on when Johnson is given a cake.

    Yet they seem very concerned when Starmer legally drinks a beer.

    Idk but I’m starting to get the sense the Mail is a bit dishonest

    Hello Horse, hope you are all good and well.

    FWIW, I agree with you but, for me, it’s the double standards but which is the most grating when it comes to Starmer. The quote from the Labour official back in January when asked about Rayner about it all being so long ago and why were people so bothered about it given everything else going on was top hypocrisy.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,851

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Did they admit a lie? Or a mistake?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796

    Spoke to my parents who in their mid 70s have clearly enjoyed* their first STV election. They both voted for me (poor fools) but then appear to have voted randomly down the ballot. LibDem 1 SNP 2 Tory 3 anyone?

    I hope you have written your victory speech 👍
    I'll have to give it from a few hundred miles away - am watching Nick Mason's Saucerful of Secrets on count day. In Manchester...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    @Mexicanpete , @Big_G_NorthWales

    Real excitement ! Free trees are on their way !

    It seems 5,000 trees were given out in March (according to a press release from the Welsh Government), and there will be 200,000 more free trees available in Autumn 2022.

    It seems that they will be given out at five regional hubs in Llanrwst, Wrexham, Machynlleth, Swansea and Cwmbran.

    So, a trip to Mach for me in the Autumn, presumably with proof of Welshness to claim my free tree.

    Apparently, it is a native broadleaf tree.

    Don't you talk to me about free ******* trees.

    I am currently in dispute with the Community Council who want to plant a wood of hazel and hawthorn trees on the pleasant Duchy of Lancaster paddock in front of Castell Mexicanpete.

    I note the the tree hugger behind this project hasn't volunteered for a ******* forest to be planted outside his house.

    Should this come to pass, I will take my 150 trees and replant them on Drakeford's front lawn. We'll see how much he likes trees then.
    Labour has form with this sort of thing


    https://houseandheritage.org/tag/manny-shinwell/
    Ha, yes. That was a disgrace and it rather exposed Labour's bad side. Pure spite rather than improvement of anyone's living standards. It wasn't even as if the estate had been exploiting miners - they were decent employers by all accounts.

    There is a plan to do the place up and it has opened recently for various functions but the missing gardens are a big shame.

    Well worth a walk past though. There's quite a few amusing follies in the area, too. Not perhaps what you expect in Rotherham.
    AIUI the local miners union offered to compensate the government for the lost profits if they didn’t destroy the gardens - but Shinwell refused. He also vetoed a plan to give the house and estate to the national trust
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    He posted earlier that he *didn't* vote Tory. So whilst you could say he leans Tory he hardly has them as paymasters if he is voting against them.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Britain accused of being ‘more evil’ than US and stealing ‘Russian’ invention of fish and chips
    Andrei Isayev, a pro-Kremlin politician, said Britain had ‘never been a real ally to Russia’ during an impassioned tirade on state TV

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/01/britain-accused-evil-us-stealing-russian-invention-fish-chips/

    Slightly weird

    "Slightly"? The whole country is having a massive nervous breakdown.
    It's certainly weird. Because we think of Russia as monolithic with every utterance pre-cleared by censors, we tend to seize on anyone saying anything peculiar, even random backbenchers like this guy, who sounds like a George Galloway sort of figure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Isayev ). Similarly, if a random TV commentator says something apparently off-message, we wonder if it's kite-flying and a precursor to a big policy change.

    Obviously it could be. But my impression is that Russian politics and media are full of broadly pro-regime people, often not very talented, keen to make an impact without rocking the boat. They self-censor but don't get their comments pre-approved, and occasionally someone strays too far and gets into trouble. There are hundreds of people expressing opinions every day, but unless a clear recurring theme appears they don't mean much more than a British borough councillor sounding off on PB (glances in mirror). I'm not convinced that there is much of a nervous breakdown going on in Russia - more a climate of complacency mingled with creeping unease.
    Don't think so, the matter of fact-to-joking references to all out nuclear war tend to be senior people on prime time RV - what @Dura_Ace who I believe has lived there and speaks the language called "equivalent of the One Show."
    Hello Ishmael, I don’t think it’s Black or White but more Shades of Grey. The presenters probably do have freedom to make certain comments as long as they don’t stray from the official line / cause too many problems with what they say. Having some presenter on a prime time show muse about nuclear weapons is probably quite useful because it adds to the uncertainty about what Russia will do. Mad beats bad etc
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    The Daily Mail says there is a war on when Johnson is given a cake.

    Yet they seem very concerned when Starmer legally drinks a beer.

    Idk but I’m starting to get the sense the Mail is a bit dishonest

    Remember they were four square behind the Second World War effort ...just not ours.
    They were also delighted with the result of the 1975 referendum.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    He posted earlier that he *didn't* vote Tory. So whilst you could say he leans Tory he hardly has them as paymasters if he is voting against them.
    Saw your post about standing for election - good luck with it RP and hope it goes well.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited May 2022

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Did they admit a lie? Or a mistake?
    As Sophie Raworth said to Lammy they have denied it for months and only now under pressure have said it was an honest mistake

    The problem for Starmer and Labour is it makes them look hypocrites
  • On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    Deflecting and juvenile comment
    Your new strategy is not to debate but instead attack me.

    Mrs Thatcher used to say, when they attack me personally I know they’re losing. So thank you.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062

    Spoke to my parents who in their mid 70s have clearly enjoyed* their first STV election. They both voted for me (poor fools) but then appear to have voted randomly down the ballot. LibDem 1 SNP 2 Tory 3 anyone?

    Good Luck! Watching Aberdeenshire very closely this year. Any predictions?
  • Big G clearly swallowed the Daily Mail or whatever Tory propaganda he’s sent.

    I hope people will remember this when he next “wavers”. He’s one of the most dishonest people on this site.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    If only we can get Starmer and Rayner a FPN each it proves Johnson's innocence of all charges! This seems to be a case of should something be repeated often enough it comes true.

    The evidence looks very, very slim to me that the law was broken, although the lie is foolish and unacceptable and perhaps you should demand Starmer and Rayner should both resign, not for the event but for the subsequent lie.
  • On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    He posted earlier that he *didn't* vote Tory. So whilst you could say he leans Tory he hardly has them as paymasters if he is voting against them.
    So he says. I don’t believe him.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article in the Times.

    Higher the affluence, the more likely people seem to be pissed off and staying at home.

    Which is a big problem for the Tories. As that is how Labour won so decisively in 1997.

    Though in 1997 the Tories still won the most affluent AB social class even if Blair won the rest.

    Now the Tories vote is holding up best if anything with skilled working class C2s
    Which has a much lower propensity to vote.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:



    As ever, fog of war, rumours, etc, etc.

    I know it's awful but I find the news about Ukraine a switch-off, even more so the relish with which a certain type of armchair expert repeatedly posts on here about it.

    It's awful. It's messy. It's protracted. There's nothing else we need to know.
    Speak for yourself.
    An unkind person might say something similar about your posts.

    A few short weeks ago they were demanding NATO intervention and no fly zones.
    Well I still think we should have heeded Zelensky's demand for a NFZ but that was just a POV.

    I've never advocated NATO intervention as such.

    I accept this is avoidance but tbh the war in Ukraine could drag on for years. As it has in Kashmir, Yemen, Tigray and countless other places around the world.
    A no fly zone would be, effectively, NATO intervention.

    It does look, sadly, like we are in for the long haul.
    That is the big question.
    If the Russian invasion isn’t defeated this year, then it will affect all our lives far more than say Brexit. Energy costs alone will do to this decade what the oil crisis did to the 70s.
    And we’re unlikely to break Russia economically any time soon - their oil and gas revenues so far this year are considerably higher than they were last. Volumes might be down, but higher prices have more than compensated even though they have to discount to the world market to sell the stuff.
    I feel like these two things are kind of at odds with each other. If sanctions don't significantly reduce Russian oil production, don't oil prices go back to normal? I mean, there's some efficiency loss whereby the EU can't buy oil by most efficient route and Russia can't sell it by the most efficient route, but presumably that mostly settles down over time as people readjust?
    Not necessarily. Their export volumes could be halved, and their revenues still be higher than they were a year or so back.
    Oil can fairly easily be redirected; gas isn’t so easy, as the pipeline to other destinations than Europe are limited.
    Sanctions will slowly degrade production volumes as they’re not self sufficient in production equipment and engineering.

    And remember worldwide demand will rise for most of this decade.
    Russia is already down about a million bbl a day at wellhead. Most of that is probably permanently lost production capacity, due to technical difficulty at those wells and the suddenly lost expertise and technology imports. Chinese state owned companies aren’t buying Russian oil product cargos, the private sector there is less circumspect but not much. The Turks, Baltics and Scandinavians aren’t bringing in Urals at all.

    The assumption must be that the crude making it to the world market right now is largely being consumed in the three core EU countries. And that Russian domestic storage is now close to full.

    If core EU is on the verge of formally phasing out imports of Urals crude, what then? The EU sanctions that kick in 15th May make it very difficult to impractical for Russian crude to go transoceanic at any scale. It’s reckoned there are single digit number of super tankers without an EU link that would be unaffected by the sanctions. Let’s assume 10mins bbl of capacity. And generously a 40 day return transit time to India. Unless there are unforeseen holes in the sanctions regimen, we could conceivably see as little as a million bbl a day make it to market, versus the pre war level of 5-6 million. Say some slips through, 2mln bbl. It’s still crippling.

    So what then if domestic storage is also full? Further falls of production at wellhead is the only answer. Which would almost certainly have a serious long term impact on Russia’s oil production capacity. And the assumption must surely be that medium term Europe will have pivoted away from Russian gas too.

    By the end of his Z War, Putin is going to have a shell of a conventional army, his core export industry of hydrocarbons will be bust and Russia’s demographics will look even worse. But it will still have an extortionately expensive nuclear arsenal to maintain. Feels to me the next Presidents of the US and Russia are going to be on Time Magazine’s cover shaking hands on a historic multi lateral disarmament deal. Hard to see another outcome.
    I don’t have a sufficient knowledge of the industry to challenge all those assumptions, but I’m not sure the picture is quite as good as that ?
    While I agree that in the medium term this is likely to be economically disastrous for Russia, what matters for the rest of us is how long they can sustain confrontation with the rest of the world.

    These figures don’t suggest China has stopped taking Russian oil ?
    Though granted the sanctions regime will be very different in a month’s time.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/27/russia-doubles-fossil-fuel-revenues-since-invasion-of-ukraine-began
    What makes you think what I’ve written are assumptions? You can take it from me, Chinese State Owned Enterprises have not been contracting new cargos of Urals crude or even Russian refined products. It’s a little reported but fascinating detail.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    The Daily Mail says there is a war on when Johnson is given a cake.

    Yet they seem very concerned when Starmer legally drinks a beer.

    Idk but I’m starting to get the sense the Mail is a bit dishonest

    Morning CHB and thank you for asking about me y'day. I'm okay, rib is healing. I hope you are too?

    The Mail has lost the plot. Not just on this but a raft of stories. And obsessions. Just bizarre obsessions. You would think they might have learnt from their vendetta against Meghan but nope.

    Northcliffe House must be an extremely unpleasant and unhappy place to work, with increasing signs of sociopathic behaviour. They need a psychiatrist in there.
  • Good day to you all. And hope you are keeping well @MrEd
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Hmm. Pound's fallen quite a bit against the dollar lately.

    We are rowing back (by the look of things) on aggressive interest rate rises whilst the US is ploughing ahead. Personally, I think the US is going about it the wrong way given many of the factors are outside the scope of interest rate rises but clear there is big political pressure to ‘do something’. Given the Chinese have been cutting rates, that’s going to have very interesting implications for the trade deficit argument going into November (although I recognise the current supply chain disruptions / issues with China may mean Chinese export numbers pre-election maybe won’t be as bad as might have been).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited May 2022

    Big G clearly swallowed the Daily Mail or whatever Tory propaganda he’s sent.

    I hope people will remember this when he next “wavers”. He’s one of the most dishonest people on this site.

    That's grossly unfair. He's consistently a small c conservative, who is understandably conflicted over the big C Conservative (or rather Johnsonite) government.
  • Big G clearly swallowed the Daily Mail or whatever Tory propaganda he’s sent.

    I hope people will remember this when he next “wavers”. He’s one of the most dishonest people on this site.

    That's grossly unfair. He's consistently a small c conservative, who is understandably conflicted over the big C Conservative (or rather Johnsonite) government.
    Sorry Cole but this is nonsense.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Did they admit a lie? Or a mistake?
    As Sophie Raworth said to Lammy they have denied it for months and only now under pressure have said it was an honest mistake

    The problem for Starmer and Labour is it makes them look hypocrites
    As the event was campaigning, and Rayner was legally allowed to be there, there is only a scandal in the fevered brains of Tory rampers looking desperately for distractions.

    But, all credit to the Daily Mail editorial staff who have dredged depths even the Express have held themselves out of. Though a little sad to see Dan Hodges byline on today's front page. He gets heckled a lot but he is better than this. Is prepared to write any old nonsense for money.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    MrEd said:

    Hmm. Pound's fallen quite a bit against the dollar lately.

    We are rowing back (by the look of things) on aggressive interest rate rises whilst the US is ploughing ahead. Personally, I think the US is going about it the wrong way given many of the factors are outside the scope of interest rate rises but clear there is big political pressure to ‘do something’. Given the Chinese have been cutting rates, that’s going to have very interesting implications for the trade deficit argument going into November (although I recognise the current supply chain disruptions / issues with China may mean Chinese export numbers pre-election maybe won’t be as bad as might have been).
    https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/dxy

    It’s not about sterling, it’s about the dollar.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,851

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Did they admit a lie? Or a mistake?
    As Sophie Raworth said to Lammy they have denied it for months and only now under pressure have said it was an honest mistake

    The problem for Starmer and Labour is it makes them look hypocrites
    So they didn't lie then. Thank you.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    Deflecting and juvenile comment
    Your new strategy is not to debate but instead attack me.

    Mrs Thatcher used to say, when they attack me personally I know they’re losing. So thank you.
    It was a response to a personal attack that you made.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    The Lie/dishonesty about Rayner is not a good look here and is helping the story keep going. In reality there is nothing to see here. But labour have handled it poorly.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Big G clearly swallowed the Daily Mail or whatever Tory propaganda he’s sent.

    I hope people will remember this when he next “wavers”. He’s one of the most dishonest people on this site.

    That's grossly unfair. He's consistently a small c conservative, who is understandably conflicted over the big C Conservative (or rather Johnsonite) government.
    Sorry Cole but this is nonsense.
    Well, Horse, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    Big G clearly swallowed the Daily Mail or whatever Tory propaganda he’s sent.

    I hope people will remember this when he next “wavers”. He’s one of the most dishonest people on this site.

    Just so I understand the approved system of classification: how does this not qualify as a “personal attack”?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    Deflecting and juvenile comment
    Your new strategy is not to debate but instead attack me.

    Mrs Thatcher used to say, when they attack me personally I know they’re losing. So thank you.

    Big G clearly swallowed the Daily Mail or whatever Tory propaganda he’s sent.

    I hope people will remember this when he next “wavers”. He’s one of the most dishonest people on this site.

    I think you need to get off the computer this fine weekend and clear your head.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article in the Times.

    Higher the affluence, the more likely people seem to be pissed off and staying at home.

    Which is a big problem for the Tories. As that is how Labour won so decisively in 1997.

    Though in 1997 the Tories still won the most affluent AB social class even if Blair won the rest.

    Now the Tories vote is holding up best if anything with skilled working class C2s
    Which has a much lower propensity to vote.
    The Tories are still ahead with pensioners however, which they weren't in 1997 and they certainly do have a higher propensity to vote
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ...
    MrEd said:

    The Daily Mail says there is a war on when Johnson is given a cake.

    Yet they seem very concerned when Starmer legally drinks a beer.

    Idk but I’m starting to get the sense the Mail is a bit dishonest

    Remember they were four square behind the Second World War effort ...just not ours.
    Which is not true. The Mail flirted with fascism in the 30s…as did the Daily Mirror.

    And, anyway, it’s not only moi who thinks that it’s ludicrous to keep bringing it up

    https://amp.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley
    Thank you Mr Dacre. The post nonetheless got the cheap laugh I desired.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796
    Cicero said:

    Spoke to my parents who in their mid 70s have clearly enjoyed* their first STV election. They both voted for me (poor fools) but then appear to have voted randomly down the ballot. LibDem 1 SNP 2 Tory 3 anyone?

    Good Luck! Watching Aberdeenshire very closely this year. Any predictions?
    We're feeling confident that we can take seats off the Tories. Infighting between their council candidates, storm clouds above the Tory MPs and a sense that the NE is getting a crap deal from both Westminster and Holyrood makes for optimism. We will see.

    Remember that my own "campaign" exists only on the ballot paper. Wisely we are focusing on seats we expect to pick up - I have delivered plenty of leaflets for others, none for myself.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,851
    Taz said:

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    The Lie/dishonesty about Rayner is not a good look here and is helping the story keep going. In reality there is nothing to see here. But labour have handled it poorly.
    If the activity was allowed under law and therefore not illegal who gives a fig whether she was there or not.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828

    Cicero said:

    Spoke to my parents who in their mid 70s have clearly enjoyed* their first STV election. They both voted for me (poor fools) but then appear to have voted randomly down the ballot. LibDem 1 SNP 2 Tory 3 anyone?

    Good Luck! Watching Aberdeenshire very closely this year. Any predictions?
    We're feeling confident that we can take seats off the Tories. Infighting between their council candidates, storm clouds above the Tory MPs and a sense that the NE is getting a crap deal from both Westminster and Holyrood makes for optimism. We will see.

    Remember that my own "campaign" exists only on the ballot paper. Wisely we are focusing on seats we expect to pick up - I have delivered plenty of leaflets for others, none for myself.
    Good luck, RP!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    He posted earlier that he *didn't* vote Tory. So whilst you could say he leans Tory he hardly has them as paymasters if he is voting against them.
    So he says. I don’t believe him.
    You have a problem with me that is entirely in your own mind and sadly reflects poorly on you as you attempt to question my integrity

    I really do not care if you do not believe me but others on this site will.

    You obviously did not read my post at 7.19am this morning that clearly lays out my position

    I would urge you to be more mature in your responses



    Good morning

    May has arrived and this is the month the conservative mps just have to act and vote Boris out of office

    I note the party have decided to seek 50% of their mps as women, and this is long overdue and hopefully they will install a woman candidate for Tiverton and North Devon

    The misdemeanours of mps, not just the idiotic Neil Parish, but others and let us not forget there are reports that 3 cabinet ministers, 2 shadow cabinet ministers and 56 mps are under investigation for sleaze, and of course Liam Byrne was found guilty of bullying and harassment

    It is little reported but labour mp Mary Foy launched a drunken tirade against conservative mp Richard Holden on the Commons Terrace in front of members for which she has since sent a written apology to him

    However, we must not tar every mp with unacceptable and inappropriate behaviour as the vast majority across all parties work honestly and diligently for their constituents

    Indeed this tweet from Jess Phillips gives hope that those mps who rightly have had enough are standing up for integrity and decency and give us hope that a new era will dawn, but it has to start with Boris being voted out of office and it is just these conservative women mps, and others, who need to act and act this month

    Jess Philips MP

    'Counterpoint to all the Westminster is dreadful stuff. Women in Westminster this week, by and large Tory women made themselves heard, worked together supportively and succeeded in their aims to have action taken. I know it might not seem like it but I'd call that progress'.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Did they admit a lie? Or a mistake?
    As Sophie Raworth said to Lammy they have denied it for months and only now under pressure have said it was an honest mistake

    The problem for Starmer and Labour is it makes them look hypocrites
    So they didn't lie then. Thank you.
    They were hardly being honest and truthful.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,796
    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article in the Times.

    Higher the affluence, the more likely people seem to be pissed off and staying at home.

    Which is a big problem for the Tories. As that is how Labour won so decisively in 1997.

    Though in 1997 the Tories still won the most affluent AB social class even if Blair won the rest.

    Now the Tories vote is holding up best if anything with skilled working class C2s
    Which has a much lower propensity to vote.
    The Tories are still ahead with pensioners however, which they weren't in 1997 and they certainly do have a higher propensity to vote
    The Tories are also ahead with people who like to be lied to and who think criminality and incompetence should be rewarded...
  • On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    He posted earlier that he *didn't* vote Tory. So whilst you could say he leans Tory he hardly has them as paymasters if he is voting against them.
    So he says. I don’t believe him.
    You have a problem with me that is entirely in your own mind and sadly reflects poorly on you as you attempt to question my integrity

    I really do not care if you do not believe me but others on this site will.

    You obviously did not read my post at 7.19am this morning that clearly lays out my position

    I would urge you to be more mature in your responses



    Good morning

    May has arrived and this is the month the conservative mps just have to act and vote Boris out of office

    I note the party have decided to seek 50% of their mps as women, and this is long overdue and hopefully they will install a woman candidate for Tiverton and North Devon

    The misdemeanours of mps, not just the idiotic Neil Parish, but others and let us not forget there are reports that 3 cabinet ministers, 2 shadow cabinet ministers and 56 mps are under investigation for sleaze, and of course Liam Byrne was found guilty of bullying and harassment

    It is little reported but labour mp Mary Foy launched a drunken tirade against conservative mp Richard Holden on the Commons Terrace in front of members for which she has since sent a written apology to him

    However, we must not tar every mp with unacceptable and inappropriate behaviour as the vast majority across all parties work honestly and diligently for their constituents

    Indeed this tweet from Jess Phillips gives hope that those mps who rightly have had enough are standing up for integrity and decency and give us hope that a new era will dawn, but it has to start with Boris being voted out of office and it is just these conservative women mps, and others, who need to act and act this month

    Jess Philips MP

    'Counterpoint to all the Westminster is dreadful stuff. Women in Westminster this week, by and large Tory women made themselves heard, worked together supportively and succeeded in their aims to have action taken. I know it might not seem like it but I'd call that progress'.
    Thank you Mr Moderator, you’re so kind as to tell me how to post.

    Now I am off for a run
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    MaxPB said:

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    Deflecting and juvenile comment
    Your new strategy is not to debate but instead attack me.

    Mrs Thatcher used to say, when they attack me personally I know they’re losing. So thank you.

    Big G clearly swallowed the Daily Mail or whatever Tory propaganda he’s sent.

    I hope people will remember this when he next “wavers”. He’s one of the most dishonest people on this site.

    I think you need to get off the computer this fine weekend and clear your head.
    Fake Tory news!

    It's raining cats and dogs here in South Wales.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Taz said:

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    The Lie/dishonesty about Rayner is not a good look here and is helping the story keep going. In reality there is nothing to see here. But labour have handled it poorly.
    If the activity was allowed under law and therefore not illegal who gives a fig whether she was there or not.
    Plenty of people it would seem as the story is still dragging on and on. I’d rather my local constabulary would simply just get on with the job and not waste time and resource on this.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Good luck, Mr. Pioneers.

    Mr. Ed, we shall see soon enough who is right. As I get paid in dollars, the pound falling isn't so bad, personally.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,686

    Big G clearly swallowed the Daily Mail or whatever Tory propaganda he’s sent.

    I hope people will remember this when he next “wavers”. He’s one of the most dishonest people on this site.

    That's grossly unfair. He's consistently a small c conservative, who is understandably conflicted over the big C Conservative (or rather Johnsonite) government.
    He doesn't seem conflicted from where I'm sitting, knows exactly what he is doing.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Good luck, Mr. Pioneers.

    Mr. Ed, we shall see soon enough who is right. As I get paid in dollars, the pound falling isn't so bad, personally.

    Very nice Morris, long may the fall continue :)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited May 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article in the Times.

    Higher the affluence, the more likely people seem to be pissed off and staying at home.

    Which is a big problem for the Tories. As that is how Labour won so decisively in 1997.

    Though in 1997 the Tories still won the most affluent AB social class even if Blair won the rest.

    Now the Tories vote is holding up best if anything with skilled working class C2s
    Which has a much lower propensity to vote.
    The Tories are still ahead with pensioners however, which they weren't in 1997 and they certainly do have a higher propensity to vote
    I love your straw clutching. Don't get me wrong, you might be right on this one, but I just love the way you will hunt feverishly for any token of hope to seize upon. One week it's a particular pollster over others, the next it's the meagre 5% Labour lead. Now it's the turn of demographics.

    If you'd have been in a tv studio the morning of 2nd May 1997 you'd have said that the map of England was still more blue than red.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MrEd said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Britain accused of being ‘more evil’ than US and stealing ‘Russian’ invention of fish and chips
    Andrei Isayev, a pro-Kremlin politician, said Britain had ‘never been a real ally to Russia’ during an impassioned tirade on state TV

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/01/britain-accused-evil-us-stealing-russian-invention-fish-chips/

    Slightly weird

    "Slightly"? The whole country is having a massive nervous breakdown.
    It's certainly weird. Because we think of Russia as monolithic with every utterance pre-cleared by censors, we tend to seize on anyone saying anything peculiar, even random backbenchers like this guy, who sounds like a George Galloway sort of figure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Isayev ). Similarly, if a random TV commentator says something apparently off-message, we wonder if it's kite-flying and a precursor to a big policy change.

    Obviously it could be. But my impression is that Russian politics and media are full of broadly pro-regime people, often not very talented, keen to make an impact without rocking the boat. They self-censor but don't get their comments pre-approved, and occasionally someone strays too far and gets into trouble. There are hundreds of people expressing opinions every day, but unless a clear recurring theme appears they don't mean much more than a British borough councillor sounding off on PB (glances in mirror). I'm not convinced that there is much of a nervous breakdown going on in Russia - more a climate of complacency mingled with creeping unease.
    Don't think so, the matter of fact-to-joking references to all out nuclear war tend to be senior people on prime time RV - what @Dura_Ace who I believe has lived there and speaks the language called "equivalent of the One Show."
    Hello Ishmael, I don’t think it’s Black or White but more Shades of Grey. The presenters probably do have freedom to make certain comments as long as they don’t stray from the official line / cause too many problems with what they say. Having some presenter on a prime time show muse about nuclear weapons is probably quite useful because it adds to the uncertainty about what Russia will do. Mad beats bad etc
    Morning Ed

    I see that point, sure. What worries me is it's not just off the cuff remarks, it's detailed graphics which take a lot of forethought, e.g. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/russian-state-tv-simulates-deadly-26839700

    By this time next year we'll be a bit clearer as to what nuclear deterrents deter, if anything
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    MaxPB said:

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    Anyone remember when Bog G said his vote was up for grabs? Now he’s back shilling for his Tory paymasters again
    Deflecting and juvenile comment
    Your new strategy is not to debate but instead attack me.

    Mrs Thatcher used to say, when they attack me personally I know they’re losing. So thank you.

    Big G clearly swallowed the Daily Mail or whatever Tory propaganda he’s sent.

    I hope people will remember this when he next “wavers”. He’s one of the most dishonest people on this site.

    I think you need to get off the computer this fine weekend and clear your head.
    Fake Tory news!

    It's raining cats and dogs here in South Wales.
    Mrs C would like some of it for our garden. Maybe late this evening.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,465

    Spoke to my parents who in their mid 70s have clearly enjoyed* their first STV election. They both voted for me (poor fools) but then appear to have voted randomly down the ballot. LibDem 1 SNP 2 Tory 3 anyone?

    Well I don't have a Lib Dem to vote for, despite being a paperless candidate in another ward.
    I have 5 choices (2 Lab, 2 SNP, 1 Con) so, apart from putting a "5" against the Tory, the other 4 may be pretty random.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    ...

    MrEd said:

    The Daily Mail says there is a war on when Johnson is given a cake.

    Yet they seem very concerned when Starmer legally drinks a beer.

    Idk but I’m starting to get the sense the Mail is a bit dishonest

    Remember they were four square behind the Second World War effort ...just not ours.
    Which is not true. The Mail flirted with fascism in the 30s…as did the Daily Mirror.

    And, anyway, it’s not only moi who thinks that it’s ludicrous to keep bringing it up

    https://amp.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley
    Thank you Mr Dacre. The post nonetheless got the cheap laugh I desired.
    You are welcome Mr Corbyn.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    On this mornings Sophie Ridge and Sophie Raworth programmes both Starmer and Lammy admitted the lie that Rayner was not present at the controversial Durham meeting, and it is becoming obvious that the correct way for this issue to be resolved is for Durham police to interview those present and send out questionnaire as per the Met

    It appears Durham Police only looked at the tape and have not questioned Starmer or those present and now 2 students who actually filmed at the event are prepared to make statements about it to Durham Police

    Starmer and Labour should welcome a full investigation as they are confident no covid regulations were broken and the matter can be resolved

    If only we can get Starmer and Rayner a FPN each it proves Johnson's innocence of all charges! This seems to be a case of should something be repeated often enough it comes true.

    The evidence looks very, very slim to me that the law was broken, although the lie is foolish and unacceptable and perhaps you should demand Starmer and Rayner should both resign, not for the event but for the subsequent lie.
    Boris is guilty and should resign but Starmer and Rayner should submit to an investigation over Durham as Durham Police have not interviewed anyone present nor the 2 students who made a video of the event and have said they will speak to Durham Police if asked

    Starmer and Rayner have nothing to worry about if it was legal but to date Durham Police have not undertaken a proper investigation
This discussion has been closed.