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David Herdson selected to stand in Wakefield – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,360

    We are currently facing a massive gas and oil crisis in Europe. Is this moment the right one to start talking about taxing the gas and oil companies much more heavily, at a time we need them to invest and be part of the solution to this problem?

    Is oil and gas investment the best solution?

    Perhaps taxing them to invest in wind turbines and battery factories would be a better approach?
    Those have a lead time of years.

    Germany needs gas now. Poland needs gas now.
    Oil and gas investment also takes years to bear fruit. The cost of the investment is roughly speaking a factor of people x time.

    If it could be done quickly then it would already have happened.
  • Seems even the speaker has been sanctioned by Russia
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Seems even the speaker has been sanctioned by Russia

    Will he be rethinking his plans to summer in Sochi?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,584

    We are currently facing a massive gas and oil crisis in Europe. Is this moment the right one to start talking about taxing the gas and oil companies much more heavily, at a time we need them to invest and be part of the solution to this problem?

    Is oil and gas investment the best solution?

    Perhaps taxing them to invest in wind turbines and battery factories would be a better approach?
    Both. We are facing a crisis. IMV we should do everything we can - with the aim that we can turn off the oil and gas taps fairly quickly as renewables and storage capacity increases.

    That's the key question: how quickly can we increase renewable (and the required storage)? Almost certainly nowhere near fast enough. (*)

    It is going to be an immediate crisis. We need to do everything we can to limit its effects.

    (*) Currently wind is generating <5% of our electricity; solar <10%
    https://grid.iamkate.com/
    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
  • Britain has pretty much the feeblest local government in the OECD.

    No wonder productivity is fucked outside of London and it’s commuter zone.

    We need 12 or so metros
    And 38 counties
    With the ability to tax and spend at least 30% of all government spending.

    50-odd units in all.

    The idea that productivity is aided by having more politicians I find greatly amusing.

    Almost as amusing as the idea that prioritising the importing of unskilled workers over skilled ones is what's needed to boost productivity.
    If you ran a business you might observe that it depends what type of worker is needed to ensure productivity. Productivity in a food factory might not be greatly improved by importing people with PhDs when you actually need fork lift truck drivers.
    I agree with that, but genuine investment is primarily the key.

    As many have said before, if you are hiring 4 unskilled labourers to do the work of 1 skilled one with the right equipment, because you aren't investing in equipment, then that is not great for productivity.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited April 2022
    algarkirk said:

    Applicant said:

    On topic, if I wasn’t really busy at work I’d go campaigning for him and do my brilliant knocking up the voters strategy that has worked so successfully in the past, especially in West Yorkshire.

    Who can forget my glory days of 2015 when I helped the likes of Andrea Jenkins win?

    Against Ed Balls, one of the finest parliamentarians of recent times?

    You should hang your head in perennial shame.
    There was another Ed Balls?
    I don't know whether I am on a political journey gradually leftwards, but I used to loathe Ed Balls and yet now I really like him. The world has definitely changed, or is it just me?
    He stopped being a senior politician...
    Most UK voters are centrists. Many are also wanting a degree of honesty, integrity and seriousness. Brexit muddied the waters for a long time, including vast numbers of centrists voting for a sub optimal person in 2019, given a choice between 2 vastly sub optimal persons.

    Labour is closer than the Tories to a return to normal centrism. I doubt if left and right come into it. I am centre right. I shall vote Labour for now.

    The median centrist voter voted for Blair from 1997 to 2005, switched to Cameron and the Conservatives in 2010, voted for Brexit in 2016 and still voted Conservative in 2017 and 2019.

    Where they go will determine who wins the next general election but we have to remember the most centrist voters were pro Brexit, even if not for a No Deal Brexit
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    We are currently facing a massive gas and oil crisis in Europe. Is this moment the right one to start talking about taxing the gas and oil companies much more heavily, at a time we need them to invest and be part of the solution to this problem?

    Is oil and gas investment the best solution?

    Perhaps taxing them to invest in wind turbines and battery factories would be a better approach?
    Those have a lead time of years.

    Germany needs gas now. Poland needs gas now.
    Oil and gas investment also takes years to bear fruit. The cost of the investment is roughly speaking a factor of people x time.

    If it could be done quickly then it would already have happened.
    Right now, LNG ships are being diverted, oil tankers diverted.

    People are working on existing pipelines - in some cases looking at modifying them to reverse flows.

    There is a lot that can be done, before you are talking about new ships, pipelines, oil and gas wells etc etc....
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    The American TV channels are concentrating on the EU crisis over gas supplies with an air of tired resignation. Many countries have become dependent on it and will do what Putin wants.

    Luckily, we don't have an Extinction Rebellion type of group which will ultimately become Putin's little helpers. No more gas, no more fossil fuels. It's a triumph.

    Sorry. Ukraine. Ometlettes and eggs and all that sort of thing
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Seems even the speaker has been sanctioned by Russia

    I guess he would be a bit disappointed if he were not. I suspect the only major UK political figures that will not be sanctioned by the end of this year will be Corbyn Farage and Salmond. Perhaps.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited April 2022
    Wow

    Conservative chief whip investigating a conservative front bench minister who is alleged to be watching porn on his phone in the commons chamber
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    When you have an economy where there are jobs available for anyone who wants one, what word should be used?
    Yet thousands of foodbanks are needed and people cannot heat their homes , what word should you use?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited April 2022
    The economist is not running at full capacity.
    Employment is still lower than pre-Covid.
    Inflation is very largely imported.

    In truth, options are limited, but perhaps one would not want to be putting up taxes which is the current government’s policy.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    On topic, if I wasn’t really busy at work I’d go campaigning for him and do my brilliant knocking up the voters strategy that has worked so successfully in the past, especially in West Yorkshire.

    Who can forget my glory days of 2015 when I helped the likes of Andrea Jenkins win?

    Against Ed Balls, one of the finest parliamentarians of recent times?

    You should hang your head in perennial shame.
    There was another Ed Balls?
    I don't know whether I am on a political journey gradually leftwards, but I used to loathe Ed Balls and yet now I really like him. The world has definitely changed, or is it just me?
    It's probably a combination of him leaving front-line politics and the post-Brexit re-alignment of politics. It's the same reason why I now love Sir John Major.
    I have met Sir John. Genuinely lovely guy. I suspect Balls would be similar in person.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Seems even the speaker has been sanctioned by Russia

    I guess he would be a bit disappointed if he were not. I suspect the only major UK political figures that will not be sanctioned by the end of this year will be Corbyn Farage and Salmond. Perhaps.
    Don’t forget Gorgeous, still labelled by Twitter as being Russian state media.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    It was the best performance I have ever seen from Boris at PMQs though. Persuasive jabs and punches that were all landing.

    The difference in style between both the leaders was perfectly evident.

    Also noted ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE WEARING TROUSERS OR LEGGINGS today. Even the lady who sits behind Boris flashing her knickers for the camera.

    Trinny and Susannah and Gok Wan will likely disagree with me, but imo all the ladies in the chamber look so much smarter and the business like this.
    Possibly it's down to the realisation of the number of perves sitting on the benches opposite ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,628

    The economist is not running at full capacity.

    Are you criticising BartholomewRoberts' work ethic?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Durham Police to review Keir Starmer's attendance at an event during lockdown

    If he gets a fine, I assume he will have to resign? 😏

    *Rayner checking her diary to see if she was at the same event....*
    If BJ got a fine for walking into the Cabinet Room and having a bit of cake, its hard to imagine how SKS will not get one.
    If you really believe that is all Johnson did I award you this years Amusingly Gullible Fool Award, and I have a bridge to sell you.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Durham Police to review Keir Starmer's attendance at an event during lockdown

    LOL, that might take the wind out of his sails somewhat!

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    I presume if he's fined he'll feel somewhat obliged to resign. I doubt he will, and unless its an outrageous breech I'm not sure he should. Whereas Boris has cumulatively done enough that I think he should go. Nonetheless we could have a Labour leadership contest before a Tory one!
    If Tories really want to save the now massively unpopular Johnson by putting pressure on Durham police to reopen a closed inquiry into whether a beer was drunk during a break in canvassing then please go ahead.

  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    TimT said:

    Clearly you do not have a sense of how small some countries are. Ignoring Rutland, Isle of White is the smallest English county at 142 k. That would put in at 194 out of 236 countries in terms of population.

    "Ignoring Rutland" !!!!!!!!!! .. as dastardly a post that has ever appeared on these hallowed pages. You might just as well have declared pineapple pizza as the finest regional dish of Greater Manchester .. Where do we get these people !! .. :astonished:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    edited April 2022

    Durham Police to review Keir Starmer's attendance at an event during lockdown

    If he gets a fine, I assume he will have to resign? 😏

    *Rayner checking her diary to see if she was at the same event....*
    If BJ got a fine for walking into the Cabinet Room and having a bit of cake, its hard to imagine how SKS will not get one.
    If you really believe that is all Johnson did I award you this years Amusingly Gullible Fool Award, and I have a bridge to sell you.
    Sunak appears to have been fined for walking into a meeting early to find cake being handed out. Johnson has been at so many parties the police and media are struggling to keep track. And has repeatedly lied about it.

    Big difference I think.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,360

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    I wonder why the inactivity rate is higher?

    I hope it isn't people knocked out of the workforce by long Covid.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    CD13 said:

    The American TV channels are concentrating on the EU crisis over gas supplies with an air of tired resignation. Many countries have become dependent on it and will do what Putin wants.

    Luckily, we don't have an Extinction Rebellion type of group which will ultimately become Putin's little helpers. No more gas, no more fossil fuels. It's a triumph.

    Sorry. Ukraine. Ometlettes and eggs and all that sort of thing

    Germany is claiming they'll be independent of Russian oil in days. Though it's hard to understand their many headed government sometimes.

  • Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Durham Police to review Keir Starmer's attendance at an event during lockdown

    LOL, that might take the wind out of his sails somewhat!

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    I presume if he's fined he'll feel somewhat obliged to resign. I doubt he will, and unless its an outrageous breech I'm not sure he should. Whereas Boris has cumulatively done enough that I think he should go. Nonetheless we could have a Labour leadership contest before a Tory one!
    If Tories really want to save the now massively unpopular Johnson by putting pressure on Durham police to reopen a closed inquiry into whether a beer was drunk during a break in canvassing then please go ahead.

    Durham Police are reviewing the event so maybe wait for their response
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,653
    For anyone looking for GERs type figures for Yorkshire.

    https://www.scotfact.com/towards-an-english-gers

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    JACK_W said:

    TimT said:

    Clearly you do not have a sense of how small some countries are. Ignoring Rutland, Isle of White is the smallest English county at 142 k. That would put in at 194 out of 236 countries in terms of population.

    "Ignoring Rutland" !!!!!!!!!! .. as dastardly a post that has ever appeared on these hallowed pages. You might just as well have declared pineapple pizza as the finest regional dish of Greater Manchester .. Where do we get these people !! .. :astonished:
    Might be the smallest county but it has a fine reservoir and the UK's biggest ichthyosaur ...

    https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2022/january/britains-largest-ever-ichthyosaur-is-discovered-rutland-water.html
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    I thought police weren’t supposed to make announcements before elections . Given the Met police aren’t issuing any more partygate updates .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Wow

    Conservative chief whip investigating a conservative front bench minister who is alleged to be watching porn on his phone in the commons chamber

    Where do the parties find these characters? Just incredible.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682

    It seems to me that the median English historic county has a population over a million, which means most English counties are ahead of plenty of independent UN countries by population.

    Rutland isn't, but Rutland is the exception not the rule.

    Almost correct - Rutland is exceptional. Other counties simply bask in the glory of Rutland. :smile:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    It was the best performance I have ever seen from Boris at PMQs though. Persuasive jabs and punches that were all landing.

    The difference in style between both the leaders was perfectly evident.

    Also noted ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE WEARING TROUSERS OR LEGGINGS today. Even the lady who sits behind Boris flashing her knickers for the camera.

    Trinny and Susannah and Gok Wan will likely disagree with me, but imo all the ladies in the chamber look so much smarter and the business like this.
    It is long past time when they should bring back morning coats frankly.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    For the avoidance of doubt, I have had solar panels for over decade, Hopefully, no Greenies will come and nail their heads to them. But we need to put things in the correct order ... Get rid of fossils fuels: Have green technology to replace them.

    Tricky or not?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2022

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    I wonder why the inactivity rate is higher?

    I hope it isn't people knocked out of the workforce by long Covid.
    It's a good question. It mostly seems to be driven by over-50s who decided to retire earlier than they would otherwise have done. One reason is that some people built up lots of savings during the lockdown periods, and perhaps got used to not working.

    Lots of detail here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/movementsoutofworkforthoseagedover50yearssincethestartofthecoronaviruspandemic/2022-03-14
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Boris has said that all the mps sanctioned by Russia should wear the sanction with pride

    Chris Bryant complains he has not been sanctioned

    He'd better be careful saying stuff like that or Twitter will flag his account like Galloway...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Carnyx said:

    JACK_W said:

    TimT said:

    Clearly you do not have a sense of how small some countries are. Ignoring Rutland, Isle of White is the smallest English county at 142 k. That would put in at 194 out of 236 countries in terms of population.

    "Ignoring Rutland" !!!!!!!!!! .. as dastardly a post that has ever appeared on these hallowed pages. You might just as well have declared pineapple pizza as the finest regional dish of Greater Manchester .. Where do we get these people !! .. :astonished:
    Might be the smallest county but it has a fine reservoir and the UK's biggest ichthyosaur ...

    https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2022/january/britains-largest-ever-ichthyosaur-is-discovered-rutland-water.html
    But sadly, no longer the Bird Fair.....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    The economist is not running at full capacity.

    Are you criticising BartholomewRoberts' work ethic?
    I’m not convinced he has entirely employable, to be honest.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    JACK_W said:

    It seems to me that the median English historic county has a population over a million, which means most English counties are ahead of plenty of independent UN countries by population.

    Rutland isn't, but Rutland is the exception not the rule.

    Almost correct - Rutland is exceptional. Other counties simply bask in the glory of Rutland. :smile:
    and Leicestershire annexed it for a while. Dastardly bar stewards. There was a story that the signs for Rutland were regularly removed by LCC workmen only for them to mysteriously reappear in the dead of night. Multum in Parvo
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682

    Wow

    Conservative chief whip investigating a conservative front bench minister who is alleged to be watching porn on his phone in the commons chamber

    I thought Youtube had taken down Theresa May's leopard skin shoe walk-on at the party conference. It was required viewing for Mrs Jack W.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405


    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Durham Police to review Keir Starmer's attendance at an event during lockdown

    LOL, that might take the wind out of his sails somewhat!

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    I presume if he's fined he'll feel somewhat obliged to resign. I doubt he will, and unless its an outrageous breech I'm not sure he should. Whereas Boris has cumulatively done enough that I think he should go. Nonetheless we could have a Labour leadership contest before a Tory one!
    If Tories really want to save the now massively unpopular Johnson by putting pressure on Durham police to reopen a closed inquiry into whether a beer was drunk during a break in canvassing then please go ahead.

    Durham Police are reviewing the event so maybe wait for their response
    From the post on Guido, for it is him, its a response to a FOI request. Will be interesting to see what the outcome is, but I don't see it as them re-opening the case.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Boris has said that all the mps sanctioned by Russia should wear the sanction with pride

    Chris Bryant complains he has not been sanctioned

    Who? ( :) )
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Borough, if that's accurate on Sunak it sounds rather rough.

  • Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Durham Police to review Keir Starmer's attendance at an event during lockdown

    LOL, that might take the wind out of his sails somewhat!

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    I presume if he's fined he'll feel somewhat obliged to resign. I doubt he will, and unless its an outrageous breech I'm not sure he should. Whereas Boris has cumulatively done enough that I think he should go. Nonetheless we could have a Labour leadership contest before a Tory one!
    If Tories really want to save the now massively unpopular Johnson by putting pressure on Durham police to reopen a closed inquiry into whether a beer was drunk during a break in canvassing then please go ahead.

    Durham Police are reviewing the event so maybe wait for their response
    As I understand it, this refers to a letter published by Paul Staines on his blog. But when you actually look at the letter, it's a pretty standard FoIA holding response that Paul is, as usual, making a meal over.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Durham Police to review Keir Starmer's attendance at an event during lockdown

    If he gets a fine, I assume he will have to resign? 😏

    *Rayner checking her diary to see if she was at the same event....*
    If BJ got a fine for walking into the Cabinet Room and having a bit of cake, its hard to imagine how SKS will not get one.
    If you really believe that is all Johnson did I award you this years Amusingly Gullible Fool Award, and I have a bridge to sell you.
    That was exactly what his fine was for. He may be fined for other things, but his only FPN to date was for walking into the Cabinet Room and having a bit of cake whilst people he works with sung him happy birthday. Do you know other facts about the FPN?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,653
    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
    Only set to get worse. Check out the latest NRS projections.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682

    JACK_W said:

    It seems to me that the median English historic county has a population over a million, which means most English counties are ahead of plenty of independent UN countries by population.

    Rutland isn't, but Rutland is the exception not the rule.

    Almost correct - Rutland is exceptional. Other counties simply bask in the glory of Rutland. :smile:
    and Leicestershire annexed it for a while. Dastardly bar stewards. There was a story that the signs for Rutland were regularly removed by LCC workmen only for them to mysteriously reappear in the dead of night. Multum in Parvo
    I plead the 5th .... Mrs Jack W not so much .. :smiley:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,584

    Carnyx said:

    JACK_W said:

    TimT said:

    Clearly you do not have a sense of how small some countries are. Ignoring Rutland, Isle of White is the smallest English county at 142 k. That would put in at 194 out of 236 countries in terms of population.

    "Ignoring Rutland" !!!!!!!!!! .. as dastardly a post that has ever appeared on these hallowed pages. You might just as well have declared pineapple pizza as the finest regional dish of Greater Manchester .. Where do we get these people !! .. :astonished:
    Might be the smallest county but it has a fine reservoir and the UK's biggest ichthyosaur ...

    https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2022/january/britains-largest-ever-ichthyosaur-is-discovered-rutland-water.html
    But sadly, no longer the Bird Fair.....
    Don't forget the horseshoes in the castle... ;)

    https://www.oakhamcastle.org/

    I'd been to Rutland and Oakham dozens of time before I discovered its 'castle'.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
    Its partly a success story - keeping people alive that would have previously died. Its also sad - I imagine most people would prefer to work for a living. And living on the state handouts must be pretty shit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    JACK_W said:

    TimT said:

    Clearly you do not have a sense of how small some countries are. Ignoring Rutland, Isle of White is the smallest English county at 142 k. That would put in at 194 out of 236 countries in terms of population.

    "Ignoring Rutland" !!!!!!!!!! .. as dastardly a post that has ever appeared on these hallowed pages. You might just as well have declared pineapple pizza as the finest regional dish of Greater Manchester .. Where do we get these people !! .. :astonished:
    It gave the world Rutland Weekend Television.

    And thus, the wonder that was the Prefab Four - the Rutles.

    I must be in love.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
    Its partly a success story - keeping people alive that would have previously died. Its also sad - I imagine most people would prefer to work for a living. And living on the state handouts must be pretty shit.
    Are the retired included in the 'inactive' class?
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    I think low employment is stretching it a bit. We are at 75.5% which is near highest recorded figure and well above the average of the past 30 years. How is that low?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    The economist is not running at full capacity.

    Are you criticising BartholomewRoberts' work ethic?
    I’m not convinced he has entirely employable, to be honest.
    Harsh. I think Conservative Central Office might of considered offering him a job once when he was one of the few people still defending Boris Johnson, but then even he went rogue. Now they only have Nerys on their shortlist.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,653

    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
    Its partly a success story - keeping people alive that would have previously died. Its also sad - I imagine most people would prefer to work for a living. And living on the state handouts must be pretty shit.
    Agree - there is often no incentive for many people on low incomes (particularly those on non-tapered benefits) to increase the number of hours they work. Universal Credit was supposed to fix this, but...

    The latest population projections for Scotland have, for the first time in a while, a declining population. That dependency ratio is just going to get worse. Eeek!

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The irony, of course, is that a strong showing by Mr Herdson may help the Tories.

    Geniune question: is the Yorkshire Party anything other than the unofficial Yorkshire branch of the Tories that gone a bit native? Are their national policies much different?

    I'd have thought they'd take two Tory votes for every one Labour vote tbh.
    Well they’re clearly not the BNP in disguise!

    I assume they’re anti-Brexit as that’s clearly a big issue for David. But other than that, I know little about them.

    If I were Labour, I wouldn’t welcome wildcards like Herdson. Sure, he could get second making it a terrrrrible night for the Tories, but it’s much more important that Labour wins. Having a potential none of the above option like the Lib Dems were in North Shropshire, is not ideal.
    Is this the same Yorkshire Nationalist Party which advocates for patrol gunboats on the Tees, sniper watchtowers on Stanage Edge, and heavily armed border guards in street checkpoints at Todmorden?
    And the stocks for smoggies stealing our daffodils!
    Actually, serious question (I suspect you are reading this Dave Herdson) is Yorkshire Party policy that Middlesbrough is part of Yorkshire or not? What borders do the party recognise?
    Yes, I am reading.

    There's actually no official policy on that at the moment, though I did a draft policy which will be going to the Executive Committee when it has less pressing matters, which touches on that issue, and if adopted would push for two referendums (or, strictly, two types of referendum) on establishing a Yorkshire Regional Parliament.

    One would be covering the whole of the existing N/W/S Yorks, plus York, Hull and E Riding councils. That would be the core vote on whether or not to establish the parliament. In addition, the 'lost territories' of Middlesbrough, Saddleworth etc could hold local referendums on whether they wanted to the parliament to cover their area, if it's established. The decision on whether to hold these second types of referendum would be triggered by either a decision of the local council or a petition reaching a trigger level within that authority.

    So the answer is that emotionally, yes, we do see Middlesbrough as part of Yorkshire, or at least part of the wider Yorkshire family, but ultimately the question on a political level comes down to whether the people there do.
    Thanks for the reply. This emotional side of politics is kind of interesting “the greater Yorkshire family” the “lost territories. sound, at least in phrases like that, same as the creation of Germany - or even greater Russian Nationalists in Kremlin wanting pleblicites in the Donbas as to how much “part of which family” the “lost territories” feel? And the Kinship of ideals too, YP with Basque and Catalan and Scottish independence movements, where votes come to these movements from right across the political spectrum on this “emotional appeal”.

    Ignore TSE and his little joke, Middlesbrough is in Yorkshire, and given the vote to choose they would choose Yorkshire. And rest of Yorkshire would vote overwhelming to have them in. All us Tykes know that. And all these things may start out small and “fringe” with policy ideas put up to committee - but it can grow to fruition - Scotland may soon be independent, how that has grown from fringe to mainstream to just about inevitable independence is a good example of what could happen - I can see that “lost territories like Middlesbrough back into the family” vote actually happening David. Why? What do I know? I know even when in London, my heart and soul still attached by some elastic back to the Dale, like Tarkovskys elastic reaching from Italy back to Russia. Because to feel and to dream is all of us, everybody, We all feel such emotional attachments, starting with our emotional attachment to hearth and home, and then to our street and hood, town and region.Even PB clearly has emotional attachment to contributors. 🙂

    And in many ways a vote for YP can be a sane and sensible vote as a vote for SNP is, a vote for devolved powers and good governance.

    Good luck in growing and developing your movement. Hope you enjoy the campaign. I’m sure this can grow and things start to happen.
  • Boris has said that all the mps sanctioned by Russia should wear the sanction with pride

    Chris Bryant complains he has not been sanctioned

    Reminds me of the phone hacking scandal, when they contacted those who'd been hacked. There were some celebs and politicians who I remember where utterly crushed NOT to have been deemed worth hacking.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
    That'll be Scotland dragging us down on the stats...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    Eabhal said:

    For anyone looking for GERs type figures for Yorkshire.

    https://www.scotfact.com/towards-an-english-gers

    Are they as big a bunch of bollox as the Scottish ones
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    edited April 2022

    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
    Its partly a success story - keeping people alive that would have previously died. Its also sad - I imagine most people would prefer to work for a living. And living on the state handouts must be pretty shit.
    Ever sink Bismarck and Churchill introduced old age support, the working classes have been living longer and longer. Ungrateful bastards - where is their patriotism?

    image
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Durham Police to review Keir Starmer's attendance at an event during lockdown

    If he gets a fine, I assume he will have to resign? 😏

    *Rayner checking her diary to see if she was at the same event....*
    If BJ got a fine for walking into the Cabinet Room and having a bit of cake, its hard to imagine how SKS will not get one.
    If you really believe that is all Johnson did I award you this years Amusingly Gullible Fool Award, and I have a bridge to sell you.
    That was exactly what his fine was for. He may be fined for other things, but his only FPN to date was for walking into the Cabinet Room and having a bit of cake whilst people he works with sung him happy birthday. Do you know other facts about the FPN?
    You need to take your head out of the sand before you get completely rogered by another ostrich
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,653

    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
    That'll be Scotland dragging us down on the stats...
    Before Malcolm explodes, this is kinda true.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
    That'll be Scotland dragging us down on the stats...
    Before Malcolm explodes, this is kinda true.
    I know, thats why I couldn't resist it :)
  • malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    Must be the most unhealthy / disabled country in the world. Will soon have more people unfit for work than those working.
    Its partly a success story - keeping people alive that would have previously died. Its also sad - I imagine most people would prefer to work for a living. And living on the state handouts must be pretty shit.
    Are the retired included in the 'inactive' class?
    Early retired only. By definitition, it's 16-64 year olds (and equally a working 75 year old isn't in the figures when calculating rate).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    JACK_W said:

    TimT said:

    Clearly you do not have a sense of how small some countries are. Ignoring Rutland, Isle of White is the smallest English county at 142 k. That would put in at 194 out of 236 countries in terms of population.

    "Ignoring Rutland" !!!!!!!!!! .. as dastardly a post that has ever appeared on these hallowed pages. You might just as well have declared pineapple pizza as the finest regional dish of Greater Manchester .. Where do we get these people !! .. :astonished:
    It gave the world Rutland Weekend Television.

    And thus, the wonder that was the Prefab Four - the Rutles.

    I must be in love.
    Starmer should have told his colleagues in Hartlepool, "Can't buy me lunch" if it comes with a beer.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Endillion said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Mr. Observer, slicing England into pieces instead of giving it a Parliament corresponding to Holyrood is not acceptable.

    Well, some of us don't have problem with devolution to regions. In England these are most appropriately the historic counties, most of which have populations similar to devolved or independent countries elsewhere.
    Er, umm?

    Do you know what the median population of a historic English county is?

    Clearly you do not.
    Foxy is entirely correct, as usual.

    Monaco is about 40K. Andorra is about 80K. Vanuatu is about 300K. Iceland is about 370K. Leics (admittedly with Rutland?) is 700K or so.
    Vatican City has about 800 people, so if we're working off literal meanings, then it's obviously correct but it wasn't really a meaningful statement in the first place.
    The background to all this is of a UK state whose instant reaction to indyref is to claim that Scotland (etc) is too small to be independent. How dare they break up the UK! And whose instant reaction to Yorkshire devolution is to make similar claims pro rata - how dare they break up England!

    The interesting point is that if the Yorkshire folk win, it opens the gates to a true federation of the UK albeit at reducing England to a number of reasonably sensibly sized units. As much discussed here, so I won't raise the pros and cons - just noting the wider implications of a serious, Holyrood or Cardiff level, Yorkshire devolution.
    There is more appetite for an English Parliament than regional assemblies.

    Remember the North East rejected a regional assembly in Prescott's referendum and the pro English Parliament English Democrats get some votes too
    What happens if/when the Yorkshire Party win in Yorkshire and demand devolution?
    They won't win in Yorkshire, any more than the English Democrats will win England.

    So unless that changes only the Conservative and Labour views on English devolution matter
    UKIP changed the Tories' view on EU membership.
    The SNP changed Labour's view on devolution.

    You don't always have to win outright.
    UKIP won the European elections, the SNP won Holyrood (and it was SLab that delivered and pushed for devolution)
    You're completely missing the facts

    (a) LDs in Scotland and London were critically important to Scottish devolution
    (b) Slab doesn't and didn't exist as a party - it's all UK Labour, though with at that time a very large Scottish component who were terrified of SNP advances like the Tories are of UKIP and its clones
    (c) it was quite a while between the implementation of devolution and the SNP victory

    DH is quite right. The SNP were nowhere near a majority of MPs in Scotland. Or MSPs in Holyrood, even allowing for the deliberate fiddle of the voting system by Labour and the LDs.
    The point is it was SLAB who had long pushed for devolution within the Labour Party which was accepted by UK Labour and with the LDs delivered devolution in 1999 under PM Blair.

    The SNP were largely irrelevant to devolution, though they did push independence up the agenda after they won Holyrood leading to the 2014 independence referendum they lost when SLAB and the LDs joined the Conservatives to oppose it (despite having fought with the SNP against the Conservatives for devolution)
    I'd sayh you are talking mince, but as we have been reminded that it is a good and useful food whereas ...

    In the runup to the devolution referendum, remember, Lord-to-be Robertson justified devolution by saying 'devolution will kill nationalism stone dead.'

    He should know. And Prof Curtice also should know. He said

    'Labour hoped devolution would persuade voters that Scotland did not need independence and that, consequently, nationalism would be killed “stone dead”.

    That, in turn, would help ensure the party at Westminster could continue to rely on a substantial body of Labour MPs being elected from north of the Border.'

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17634887.sir-john-curtice-devolution-supposed-kill-nationalism-stone-dead---much-alive/

    This puts the YP picture very much in DH's light rather than yours.
    Scots still voted for devolution in 1997 but rejected independence in 2014.

    So Robertson was not far out, even if he underestimated the SNP threat to SLAB
    Doesn't change the fact you were wrong about the origins of devolution. Which is the relevant bit to the YP discussion today.
    I wasn't, it was in Labour not the SNP where it really originated and was pushed through.

    But only because they were terrified of the SNP. Like youjr party and Labour will be of the YP if it starts making gains. Which I think is quite likely.
    SNIP

    The Yorkshire Party has not even elected one Yorkshire MP yet or gained control of a single Yorkshire council
    We don't have "a single Yorkshire council", aka a Regional Assembly. I believe that is what the Yorkshire Party are campaigning for.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Rishi - missing- was he the porn watcher?
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    Rutland is a splendid county. The county motto - Multum In Parvo (Much In Little) is most apt. Sporting two pleasing small towns, Oakham and Uppingham and a host of charming villages (and attendant pubs :wink: ). It punches much above its' size as the former miniature for the constituency and Andrea idol, Hunky Dinky Dunky aka Alan Duncan could testify.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Has SKS been fined yet?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    edited April 2022

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The irony, of course, is that a strong showing by Mr Herdson may help the Tories.

    Geniune question: is the Yorkshire Party anything other than the unofficial Yorkshire branch of the Tories that gone a bit native? Are their national policies much different?

    I'd have thought they'd take two Tory votes for every one Labour vote tbh.
    Well they’re clearly not the BNP in disguise!

    I assume they’re anti-Brexit as that’s clearly a big issue for David. But other than that, I know little about them.

    If I were Labour, I wouldn’t welcome wildcards like Herdson. Sure, he could get second making it a terrrrrible night for the Tories, but it’s much more important that Labour wins. Having a potential none of the above option like the Lib Dems were in North Shropshire, is not ideal.
    Is this the same Yorkshire Nationalist Party which advocates for patrol gunboats on the Tees, sniper watchtowers on Stanage Edge, and heavily armed border guards in street checkpoints at Todmorden?
    And the stocks for smoggies stealing our daffodils!
    Actually, serious question (I suspect you are reading this Dave Herdson) is Yorkshire Party policy that Middlesbrough is part of Yorkshire or not? What borders do the party recognise?
    Yes, I am reading.

    There's actually no official policy on that at the moment, though I did a draft policy which will be going to the Executive Committee when it has less pressing matters, which touches on that issue, and if adopted would push for two referendums (or, strictly, two types of referendum) on establishing a Yorkshire Regional Parliament.

    One would be covering the whole of the existing N/W/S Yorks, plus York, Hull and E Riding councils. That would be the core vote on whether or not to establish the parliament. In addition, the 'lost territories' of Middlesbrough, Saddleworth etc could hold local referendums on whether they wanted to the parliament to cover their area, if it's established. The decision on whether to hold these second types of referendum would be triggered by either a decision of the local council or a petition reaching a trigger level within that authority.

    So the answer is that emotionally, yes, we do see Middlesbrough as part of Yorkshire, or at least part of the wider Yorkshire family, but ultimately the question on a political level comes down to whether the people there do.
    Thanks for the reply. This emotional side of politics is kind of interesting “the greater Yorkshire family” the “lost territories. sound, at least in phrases like that, same as the creation of Germany - or even greater Russian Nationalists in Kremlin wanting pleblicites in the Donbas as to how much “part of which family” the “lost territories” feel? And the Kinship of ideals too, YP with Basque and Catalan and Scottish independence movements, where votes come to these movements from right across the political spectrum on this “emotional appeal”.

    Ignore TSE and his little joke, Middlesbrough is in Yorkshire, and given the vote to choose they would choose Yorkshire. And rest of Yorkshire would vote overwhelming to have them in. All us Tykes know that. And all these things may start out small and “fringe” with policy ideas put up to committee - but it can grow to fruition - Scotland may soon be independent, how that has grown from fringe to mainstream to just about inevitable independence is a good example of what could happen - I can see that “lost territories like Middlesbrough back into the family” vote actually happening David. Why? What do I know? I know even when in London, my heart and soul still attached by some elastic back to the Dale, like Tarkovskys elastic reaching from Italy back to Russia. Because to feel and to dream is all of us, everybody, We all feel such emotional attachments, starting with our emotional attachment to hearth and home, and then to our street and hood, town and region.Even PB clearly has emotional attachment to contributors. 🙂

    And in many ways a vote for YP can be a sane and sensible vote as a vote for SNP is, a vote for devolved powers and good governance.

    Good luck in growing and developing your movement. Hope you enjoy the campaign. I’m sure this can grow and things start to happen.
    I doubt the residents of Boro would vote to join a Yorkshire level regional Government. They are currently top dog on Teesside, and they wouldn't vote to be 4th priority in Yorkshire.

    Local rivalries are a reason regional devolution completely fails in the UK - Sunderland (heck even Gateshead) don't want anything to do with Newcastle because they fear it will make them 3rd class cities as all the money and investment went to Newcastle.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,653
    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    For anyone looking for GERs type figures for Yorkshire.

    https://www.scotfact.com/towards-an-english-gers

    Are they as big a bunch of bollox as the Scottish ones
    GERs show that Scotland is the richest part of the UK outside the SE of England. Do you disagree with that bit?

    There is a long-term demographic challenge in Scotland that there is no shame in recognising. A good argument for indy is that this could be resolved by encouraging mass-immigration of the kind that happened in England in the 2000s.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    It was the best performance I have ever seen from Boris at PMQs though. Persuasive jabs and punches that were all landing.

    The difference in style between both the leaders was perfectly evident.

    Also noted ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE WEARING TROUSERS OR LEGGINGS today. Even the lady who sits behind Boris flashing her knickers for the camera.

    Trinny and Susannah and Gok Wan will likely disagree with me, but imo all the ladies in the chamber look so much smarter and the business like this.
    The question is are there 180 plus I conservative mps who will reject Boris as PM
    I think they were closer to 180 back in January, nowhere near 180 now. Look at Boris today, bang on effective form, just like the Boris that wins elections. They don’t have to rush into any vonc vote within next few months.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Endillion said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Mr. Observer, slicing England into pieces instead of giving it a Parliament corresponding to Holyrood is not acceptable.

    Well, some of us don't have problem with devolution to regions. In England these are most appropriately the historic counties, most of which have populations similar to devolved or independent countries elsewhere.
    Er, umm?

    Do you know what the median population of a historic English county is?

    Clearly you do not.
    Foxy is entirely correct, as usual.

    Monaco is about 40K. Andorra is about 80K. Vanuatu is about 300K. Iceland is about 370K. Leics (admittedly with Rutland?) is 700K or so.
    Vatican City has about 800 people, so if we're working off literal meanings, then it's obviously correct but it wasn't really a meaningful statement in the first place.
    The background to all this is of a UK state whose instant reaction to indyref is to claim that Scotland (etc) is too small to be independent. How dare they break up the UK! And whose instant reaction to Yorkshire devolution is to make similar claims pro rata - how dare they break up England!

    The interesting point is that if the Yorkshire folk win, it opens the gates to a true federation of the UK albeit at reducing England to a number of reasonably sensibly sized units. As much discussed here, so I won't raise the pros and cons - just noting the wider implications of a serious, Holyrood or Cardiff level, Yorkshire devolution.
    There is more appetite for an English Parliament than regional assemblies.

    Remember the North East rejected a regional assembly in Prescott's referendum and the pro English Parliament English Democrats get some votes too
    What happens if/when the Yorkshire Party win in Yorkshire and demand devolution?
    They won't win in Yorkshire, any more than the English Democrats will win England.

    So unless that changes only the Conservative and Labour views on English devolution matter
    UKIP changed the Tories' view on EU membership.
    The SNP changed Labour's view on devolution.

    You don't always have to win outright.
    UKIP won the European elections, the SNP won Holyrood (and it was SLab that delivered and pushed for devolution)
    You're completely missing the facts

    (a) LDs in Scotland and London were critically important to Scottish devolution
    (b) Slab doesn't and didn't exist as a party - it's all UK Labour, though with at that time a very large Scottish component who were terrified of SNP advances like the Tories are of UKIP and its clones
    (c) it was quite a while between the implementation of devolution and the SNP victory

    DH is quite right. The SNP were nowhere near a majority of MPs in Scotland. Or [edit] from 1997 to 2010, MSPs in Holyrood, even allowing for the deliberate fiddle of the voting system by Labour and the LDs.
    For that matter, if Labour does ever end up implementing fedaralism in the UK, it's unlikely they would have done so if they hadn't been shellacked in Scotland in 2015.
  • felix said:

    On topic, if I wasn’t really busy at work I’d go campaigning for him and do my brilliant knocking up the voters strategy that has worked so successfully in the past, especially in West Yorkshire.

    Who can forget my glory days of 2015 when I helped the likes of Andrea Jenkins win?

    Against Ed Balls, one of the finest parliamentarians of recent times?

    You should hang your head in perennial shame.
    There was another Ed Balls?
    I don't know whether I am on a political journey gradually leftwards, but I used to loathe Ed Balls and yet now I really like him. The world has definitely changed, or is it just me?
    It's clealry the 'Strictly' effect. I believe it's a thing.
    I still don't like Anne Widdicombe or Edwina Currie.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    JACK_W said:

    Rutland is a splendid county. The county motto - Multum In Parvo (Much In Little) is most apt. Sporting two pleasing small towns, Oakham and Uppingham and a host of charming villages (and attendant pubs :wink: ). It punches much above its' size as the former miniature for the constituency and Andrea idol, Hunky Dinky Dunky aka Alan Duncan could testify.

    Very pleasant walks/birdwatching at the reservoir. And a very nice specialist transport bookshop actually in one of the railway stations - or at least it used to.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    edited April 2022

    Carnyx said:

    JACK_W said:

    TimT said:

    Clearly you do not have a sense of how small some countries are. Ignoring Rutland, Isle of White is the smallest English county at 142 k. That would put in at 194 out of 236 countries in terms of population.

    "Ignoring Rutland" !!!!!!!!!! .. as dastardly a post that has ever appeared on these hallowed pages. You might just as well have declared pineapple pizza as the finest regional dish of Greater Manchester .. Where do we get these people !! .. :astonished:
    Might be the smallest county but it has a fine reservoir and the UK's biggest ichthyosaur ...

    https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2022/january/britains-largest-ever-ichthyosaur-is-discovered-rutland-water.html
    But sadly, no longer the Bird Fair.....
    Indeed - Mrs C and I came across some such event completely by luck. I remember the small tree in the car park of the birdy centre with about 20 twitchers around the base and an insouciant Waxwing sitting in it. And an Egyptian Goose nesting about a yard from the window of the birdy centre.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    I agree Pete.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,360

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    I wonder why the inactivity rate is higher?

    I hope it isn't people knocked out of the workforce by long Covid.
    It's a good question. It mostly seems to be driven by over-50s who decided to retire earlier than they would otherwise have done. One reason is that some people built up lots of savings during the lockdown periods, and perhaps got used to not working.

    Lots of detail here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/movementsoutofworkforthoseagedover50yearssincethestartofthecoronaviruspandemic/2022-03-14
    Really interesting.

    Would seem that we've found the demographic who did best out of the pandemic and can afford to pay more tax to fix the hole in the public finances - degree-educated men in their 60s.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Durham Police to review Keir Starmer's attendance at an event during lockdown

    If he gets a fine, I assume he will have to resign? 😏

    *Rayner checking her diary to see if she was at the same event....*
    If BJ got a fine for walking into the Cabinet Room and having a bit of cake, its hard to imagine how SKS will not get one.
    If you really believe that is all Johnson did I award you this years Amusingly Gullible Fool Award, and I have a bridge to sell you.
    That was exactly what his fine was for. He may be fined for other things, but his only FPN to date was for walking into the Cabinet Room and having a bit of cake whilst people he works with sung him happy birthday. Do you know other facts about the FPN?
    And his wife. And his interior designed. They aren't work colleagues.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Endillion said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Mr. Observer, slicing England into pieces instead of giving it a Parliament corresponding to Holyrood is not acceptable.

    Well, some of us don't have problem with devolution to regions. In England these are most appropriately the historic counties, most of which have populations similar to devolved or independent countries elsewhere.
    Er, umm?

    Do you know what the median population of a historic English county is?

    Clearly you do not.
    Foxy is entirely correct, as usual.

    Monaco is about 40K. Andorra is about 80K. Vanuatu is about 300K. Iceland is about 370K. Leics (admittedly with Rutland?) is 700K or so.
    Vatican City has about 800 people, so if we're working off literal meanings, then it's obviously correct but it wasn't really a meaningful statement in the first place.
    The background to all this is of a UK state whose instant reaction to indyref is to claim that Scotland (etc) is too small to be independent. How dare they break up the UK! And whose instant reaction to Yorkshire devolution is to make similar claims pro rata - how dare they break up England!

    The interesting point is that if the Yorkshire folk win, it opens the gates to a true federation of the UK albeit at reducing England to a number of reasonably sensibly sized units. As much discussed here, so I won't raise the pros and cons - just noting the wider implications of a serious, Holyrood or Cardiff level, Yorkshire devolution.
    There is more appetite for an English Parliament than regional assemblies.

    Remember the North East rejected a regional assembly in Prescott's referendum and the pro English Parliament English Democrats get some votes too
    What happens if/when the Yorkshire Party win in Yorkshire and demand devolution?
    They won't win in Yorkshire, any more than the English Democrats will win England.

    So unless that changes only the Conservative and Labour views on English devolution matter
    UKIP changed the Tories' view on EU membership.
    The SNP changed Labour's view on devolution.

    You don't always have to win outright.
    UKIP won the European elections, the SNP won Holyrood (and it was SLab that delivered and pushed for devolution)
    You're completely missing the facts

    (a) LDs in Scotland and London were critically important to Scottish devolution
    (b) Slab doesn't and didn't exist as a party - it's all UK Labour, though with at that time a very large Scottish component who were terrified of SNP advances like the Tories are of UKIP and its clones
    (c) it was quite a while between the implementation of devolution and the SNP victory

    DH is quite right. The SNP were nowhere near a majority of MPs in Scotland. Or [edit] from 1997 to 2010, MSPs in Holyrood, even allowing for the deliberate fiddle of the voting system by Labour and the LDs.
    For that matter, if Labour does ever end up implementing fedaralism in the UK, it's unlikely they would have done so if they hadn't been shellacked in Scotland in 2015.
    That's true, but at the moment its thinking is going to be some variety of "Celtic [sic] Fringe Different from Us English because reasons". If the YP (or MK or whoever) can break that mind cast, then they will deserve credit too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Britain and other Western powers should provide warplanes to Ukraine, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss will say, as part of long-term military support.

    In a major speech in London, Ms Truss will argue that the West "must be prepared for the long haul and double down on our support" for the country.

    Since Russia's invasion, Ukraine has repeatedly asked allies to supply heavy armaments such as aeroplanes and tanks.

    Nato has provided mostly only lighter weaponry amid fears of escalation.

    Ms Truss will tell an audience at Mansion House, in the City of London, that "the fate of Ukraine remains in the balance" and that the West "cannot be complacent".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61239075

    Fizzy lizzy elbowing her way back to the top of the conhome queue. Never mind the escalation, feel the name rcognition.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    We also have a massive imbalance in terms of who is being impacted - wealthier, asset-owning classes are doing very well and have cash to splash, poorer households are struggling and that will increase.

    Jacking up interest rates is a blunt tool for all but disproportionately hits poorer / marginal households who have less wriggleroom.

    If you wanted to curb inflation - and some effects are indeed beyond the Government’s control - you’d be better off introducing targeted temporary measures such as a 1 year suspension of CGT relief on property sales above a certain level, rises in the CGT level and, ideally, redistribute the money to poorer households.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    carnforth said:

    Struggling to see how what Johnson is saying in PMQs even remotely matches up to reality

    Starmer has a point - Johnson talks like the economy is booming.

    Decidedly not booming. But unemployment being very low is a bright spot, and deserves mention.
    But this is the problem. The economy is running hot - high inflation, low unemployment - even while growth is low.

    Now, there are several major reasons for that, including ones well outside the government's control (but also some which are optional, unforced policy). But the reasons matter a lot less than the effects.
    We have low unemployment, but we also have low employment. The inactivity rate in the latest ONS figures is 21.3%, which is 1.1% higher than pre-Covid. In addition, the employment figures reflect a quite large rise in public-sector employment during the pandemic.
    I wonder why the inactivity rate is higher?

    I hope it isn't people knocked out of the workforce by long Covid.
    It's a good question. It mostly seems to be driven by over-50s who decided to retire earlier than they would otherwise have done. One reason is that some people built up lots of savings during the lockdown periods, and perhaps got used to not working.

    Lots of detail here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/movementsoutofworkforthoseagedover50yearssincethestartofthecoronaviruspandemic/2022-03-14
    Really interesting.

    Would seem that we've found the demographic who did best out of the pandemic and can afford to pay more tax to fix the hole in the public finances - degree-educated men in their 60s.
    Then they might have to go back to work, though, whereas we really need lots more of them to retire and stop bed-blocking the jobs market.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...
    On the information we have to hand, if working at a constituency office was acceptable, having a beer and a sandwich as sustinence doesn't seem problematic to me. I am of an age where back in the day a pie and a pint was traditional lunchtime fayre. I wouldn't do it now, but thirty years ago it certainly wasn't a party.

    If he shouldn't even have been campaigning from a constituency office he was thus in complete breach of the rules and should go.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Can any of the PB 'you CAN eat sovereignty' experts explain what this sovereign England thing is all about?




  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Endillion said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Mr. Observer, slicing England into pieces instead of giving it a Parliament corresponding to Holyrood is not acceptable.

    Well, some of us don't have problem with devolution to regions. In England these are most appropriately the historic counties, most of which have populations similar to devolved or independent countries elsewhere.
    Er, umm?

    Do you know what the median population of a historic English county is?

    Clearly you do not.
    Foxy is entirely correct, as usual.

    Monaco is about 40K. Andorra is about 80K. Vanuatu is about 300K. Iceland is about 370K. Leics (admittedly with Rutland?) is 700K or so.
    Vatican City has about 800 people, so if we're working off literal meanings, then it's obviously correct but it wasn't really a meaningful statement in the first place.
    The background to all this is of a UK state whose instant reaction to indyref is to claim that Scotland (etc) is too small to be independent. How dare they break up the UK! And whose instant reaction to Yorkshire devolution is to make similar claims pro rata - how dare they break up England!

    The interesting point is that if the Yorkshire folk win, it opens the gates to a true federation of the UK albeit at reducing England to a number of reasonably sensibly sized units. As much discussed here, so I won't raise the pros and cons - just noting the wider implications of a serious, Holyrood or Cardiff level, Yorkshire devolution.
    There is more appetite for an English Parliament than regional assemblies.

    Remember the North East rejected a regional assembly in Prescott's referendum and the pro English Parliament English Democrats get some votes too
    What happens if/when the Yorkshire Party win in Yorkshire and demand devolution?
    They won't win in Yorkshire, any more than the English Democrats will win England.

    So unless that changes only the Conservative and Labour views on English devolution matter
    UKIP changed the Tories' view on EU membership.
    The SNP changed Labour's view on devolution.

    You don't always have to win outright.
    UKIP won the European elections, the SNP won Holyrood (and it was SLab that delivered and pushed for devolution)
    You're completely missing the facts

    (a) LDs in Scotland and London were critically important to Scottish devolution
    (b) Slab doesn't and didn't exist as a party - it's all UK Labour, though with at that time a very large Scottish component who were terrified of SNP advances like the Tories are of UKIP and its clones
    (c) it was quite a while between the implementation of devolution and the SNP victory

    DH is quite right. The SNP were nowhere near a majority of MPs in Scotland. Or MSPs in Holyrood, even allowing for the deliberate fiddle of the voting system by Labour and the LDs.
    The point is it was SLAB who had long pushed for devolution within the Labour Party which was accepted by UK Labour and with the LDs delivered devolution in 1999 under PM Blair.

    The SNP were largely irrelevant to devolution, though they did push independence up the agenda after they won Holyrood leading to the 2014 independence referendum they lost when SLAB and the LDs joined the Conservatives to oppose it (despite having fought with the SNP against the Conservatives for devolution)
    I'd sayh you are talking mince, but as we have been reminded that it is a good and useful food whereas ...

    In the runup to the devolution referendum, remember, Lord-to-be Robertson justified devolution by saying 'devolution will kill nationalism stone dead.'

    He should know. And Prof Curtice also should know. He said

    'Labour hoped devolution would persuade voters that Scotland did not need independence and that, consequently, nationalism would be killed “stone dead”.

    That, in turn, would help ensure the party at Westminster could continue to rely on a substantial body of Labour MPs being elected from north of the Border.'

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17634887.sir-john-curtice-devolution-supposed-kill-nationalism-stone-dead---much-alive/

    This puts the YP picture very much in DH's light rather than yours.
    Scots still voted for devolution in 1997 but rejected independence in 2014.

    So Robertson was not far out, even if he underestimated the SNP threat to SLAB
    Doesn't change the fact you were wrong about the origins of devolution. Which is the relevant bit to the YP discussion today.
    I wasn't, it was in Labour not the SNP where it really originated and was pushed through.

    But only because they were terrified of the SNP. Like youjr party and Labour will be of the YP if it starts making gains. Which I think is quite likely.
    No more because Labour were angry that Labour won Scotland but not the UK in the Thatcher years with all Scottish domestic politics still decided at Westminster.

    Labour still had a big lead in Scotland and were miles ahead of the SNP until years into devolution.

    The Yorkshire Party has not even elected one Yorkshire MP yet or gained control of a single Yorkshire council
    Or elected mayor - though that may change in about a week.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    I agree Pete.
    More with para 2 than para 1 I am guessing. I agree with both (and bear in mind criminal prosecutions are his chosen specialised subject). No wives, no decorators = bulletproof.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    Carnyx said:

    JACK_W said:

    Rutland is a splendid county. The county motto - Multum In Parvo (Much In Little) is most apt. Sporting two pleasing small towns, Oakham and Uppingham and a host of charming villages (and attendant pubs :wink: ). It punches much above its' size as the former miniature for the constituency and Andrea idol, Hunky Dinky Dunky aka Alan Duncan could testify.

    Very pleasant walks/birdwatching at the reservoir. And a very nice specialist transport bookshop actually in one of the railway stations - or at least it used to.
    Indeed so. I wasn't aware of that bookshop. Back in the day the county enjoyed a raft of excellent secondhand and antiquarian bookshops but sadly almost all are gone. I think the small and quirky Rutland County Bookshop next to Uppingham School remains but the others have lost the fight against high business rates, Oxfam book shops, ebay and the internet.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...
    On the information we have to hand, if working at a constituency office was acceptable, having a beer and a sandwich as sustinence doesn't seem problematic to me. I am of an age where back in the day a pie and a pint was traditional lunchtime fayre. I wouldn't do it now, but thirty years ago it certainly wasn't a party.

    If he shouldn't even have been campaigning from a constituency office he was thus in complete breach of the rules and should go.
    As described by Johnson, I don't believe the birthday cake incident should have merited a FPN, in the same way Starmer's one seemingly doesn't. Johnson seems liable for far worse events which should merit a sanction, notably the 'bring your own booze' event, and allegedly others with 200 odd photos.

    We should be wary of double standards though. Is having a pint at lunchtime traditional in the constituency office? And if so, is that not the argument for No 10 too?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,584
    Carnyx said:

    JACK_W said:

    Rutland is a splendid county. The county motto - Multum In Parvo (Much In Little) is most apt. Sporting two pleasing small towns, Oakham and Uppingham and a host of charming villages (and attendant pubs :wink: ). It punches much above its' size as the former miniature for the constituency and Andrea idol, Hunky Dinky Dunky aka Alan Duncan could testify.

    Very pleasant walks/birdwatching at the reservoir. And a very nice specialist transport bookshop actually in one of the railway stations - or at least it used to.
    That's in Stamford - an absolutely beautiful town. I spent many a happy half-hour at the station bookshop as I waited for trains after a walk. They've now moved up the hill out of town - although sadly (though not for my bookcases) I've not been to their newish place yet.

    https://www.roberthummbooks.co.uk/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    edited April 2022
    JACK_W said:

    Carnyx said:

    JACK_W said:

    Rutland is a splendid county. The county motto - Multum In Parvo (Much In Little) is most apt. Sporting two pleasing small towns, Oakham and Uppingham and a host of charming villages (and attendant pubs :wink: ). It punches much above its' size as the former miniature for the constituency and Andrea idol, Hunky Dinky Dunky aka Alan Duncan could testify.

    Very pleasant walks/birdwatching at the reservoir. And a very nice specialist transport bookshop actually in one of the railway stations - or at least it used to.
    Indeed so. I wasn't aware of that bookshop. Back in the day the county enjoyed a raft of excellent secondhand and antiquarian bookshops but sadly almost all are gone. I think the small and quirky Rutland County Bookshop next to Uppingham School remains but the others have lost the fight against high business rates, Oxfam book shops, ebay and the internet.
    Memory was wrong on checking, apols - Stamford is in Lincs of course, silly me, and that is where the bookshop was. I blame the characteristic architecture of that particular railway ...

    It's recently moved from the station - still using printed catalogues for the really nice old stuff I see.

    https://www.roberthummbooks.co.uk/

    Edit: I shoulkd have known JJ would pick me up instantly on it.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    JACK_W said:

    Carnyx said:

    JACK_W said:

    Rutland is a splendid county. The county motto - Multum In Parvo (Much In Little) is most apt. Sporting two pleasing small towns, Oakham and Uppingham and a host of charming villages (and attendant pubs :wink: ). It punches much above its' size as the former miniature for the constituency and Andrea idol, Hunky Dinky Dunky aka Alan Duncan could testify.

    Very pleasant walks/birdwatching at the reservoir. And a very nice specialist transport bookshop actually in one of the railway stations - or at least it used to.
    Indeed so. I wasn't aware of that bookshop. Back in the day the county enjoyed a raft of excellent secondhand and antiquarian bookshops but sadly almost all are gone. I think the small and quirky Rutland County Bookshop next to Uppingham School remains but the others have lost the fight against high business rates, Oxfam book shops, ebay and the internet.
    Isn't a PB denizen a specialist bookseller ?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...
    On the information we have to hand, if working at a constituency office was acceptable, having a beer and a sandwich as sustinence doesn't seem problematic to me. I am of an age where back in the day a pie and a pint was traditional lunchtime fayre. I wouldn't do it now, but thirty years ago it certainly wasn't a party.

    If he shouldn't even have been campaigning from a constituency office he was thus in complete breach of the rules and should go.
    As described by Johnson, I don't believe the birthday cake incident should have merited a FPN, in the same way Starmer's one seemingly doesn't. Johnson seems liable for far worse events which should merit a sanction, notably the 'bring your own booze' event, and allegedly others with 200 odd photos.

    We should be wary of double standards though. Is having a pint at lunchtime traditional in the constituency office? And if so, is that not the argument for No 10 too?
    For the last time, it's not the gathering, it's the lying to parliament. As far as I am aware, loto is not a ministerial position so if he thinks he's made a mistake and gets an fpn then so what. If it's like a speeding fine then so what.

    :wink:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...
    On the information we have to hand, if working at a constituency office was acceptable, having a beer and a sandwich as sustinence doesn't seem problematic to me. I am of an age where back in the day a pie and a pint was traditional lunchtime fayre. I wouldn't do it now, but thirty years ago it certainly wasn't a party.

    If he shouldn't even have been campaigning from a constituency office he was thus in complete breach of the rules and should go.
    As described by Johnson, I don't believe the birthday cake incident should have merited a FPN, in the same way Starmer's one seemingly doesn't. Johnson seems liable for far worse events which should merit a sanction, notably the 'bring your own booze' event, and allegedly others with 200 odd photos.

    We should be wary of double standards though. Is having a pint at lunchtime traditional in the constituency office? And if so, is that not the argument for No 10 too?
    I suspect it was.

    Don't you recall Captains of Industry and Trades Union Barons negotiating over beer and sandwiches at No 10 back in the day?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...
    On the information we have to hand, if working at a constituency office was acceptable, having a beer and a sandwich as sustinence doesn't seem problematic to me. I am of an age where back in the day a pie and a pint was traditional lunchtime fayre. I wouldn't do it now, but thirty years ago it certainly wasn't a party.

    If he shouldn't even have been campaigning from a constituency office he was thus in complete breach of the rules and should go.
    As described by Johnson, I don't believe the birthday cake incident should have merited a FPN, in the same way Starmer's one seemingly doesn't. Johnson seems liable for far worse events which should merit a sanction, notably the 'bring your own booze' event, and allegedly others with 200 odd photos.

    We should be wary of double standards though. Is having a pint at lunchtime traditional in the constituency office? And if so, is that not the argument for No 10 too?
    For the gazillionth time alcohol is not the offence, it creates what you might call a rebuttable presumption of an offence. The Labour movement has a long and glorious history of beer and sandwiches meetings, which goes ome way to rebutting the presumption
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    I agree Pete.
    More with para 2 than para 1 I am guessing. I agree with both (and bear in mind criminal prosecutions are his chosen specialised subject). No wives, no decorators = bulletproof.
    No masks, no social distancing.

    Plenty of beer (for a lightweight)

    Hypocrisy in even more plentiful supply
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...
    On the information we have to hand, if working at a constituency office was acceptable, having a beer and a sandwich as sustinence doesn't seem problematic to me. I am of an age where back in the day a pie and a pint was traditional lunchtime fayre. I wouldn't do it now, but thirty years ago it certainly wasn't a party.

    If he shouldn't even have been campaigning from a constituency office he was thus in complete breach of the rules and should go.
    As described by Johnson, I don't believe the birthday cake incident should have merited a FPN, in the same way Starmer's one seemingly doesn't. Johnson seems liable for far worse events which should merit a sanction, notably the 'bring your own booze' event, and allegedly others with 200 odd photos.

    We should be wary of double standards though. Is having a pint at lunchtime traditional in the constituency office? And if so, is that not the argument for No 10 too?
    I suspect it was.

    Don't you recall Captains of Industry and Trades Union Barons negotiating over beer and sandwiches at No 10 back in the day?
    snap
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...

    ...

    Has SKS been fined yet?

    On the evidence already in the public domain if I were him I would reject any FPN and see Durham Constabulary in court

    If there is more evidence and he is convicted he should go.
    As I note - the story is based on a response to a FOI, not that they have re-opened the case. Personally I think it probably did break the rules, but he didn't set the rules, and didn't lie in parliament (AFAICS).

    However it would puncture his balloon a bit if he were fined...
    On the information we have to hand, if working at a constituency office was acceptable, having a beer and a sandwich as sustinence doesn't seem problematic to me. I am of an age where back in the day a pie and a pint was traditional lunchtime fayre. I wouldn't do it now, but thirty years ago it certainly wasn't a party.

    If he shouldn't even have been campaigning from a constituency office he was thus in complete breach of the rules and should go.
    As described by Johnson, I don't believe the birthday cake incident should have merited a FPN, in the same way Starmer's one seemingly doesn't. Johnson seems liable for far worse events which should merit a sanction, notably the 'bring your own booze' event, and allegedly others with 200 odd photos.

    We should be wary of double standards though. Is having a pint at lunchtime traditional in the constituency office? And if so, is that not the argument for No 10 too?
    For the last time, it's not the gathering, it's the lying to parliament. As far as I am aware, loto is not a ministerial position so if he thinks he's made a mistake and gets an fpn then so what. If it's like a speeding fine then so what.

    :wink:
    Its not the lying to parliament that's pissed off the nation - the fury is partying while others didn't visit dying relatives.
    In no sense has Starmer behaved in the way Johnson has, except there is a case for this one occasion that makes him look like a hypocrite.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682

    Carnyx said:

    JACK_W said:

    Rutland is a splendid county. The county motto - Multum In Parvo (Much In Little) is most apt. Sporting two pleasing small towns, Oakham and Uppingham and a host of charming villages (and attendant pubs :wink: ). It punches much above its' size as the former miniature for the constituency and Andrea idol, Hunky Dinky Dunky aka Alan Duncan could testify.

    Very pleasant walks/birdwatching at the reservoir. And a very nice specialist transport bookshop actually in one of the railway stations - or at least it used to.
    That's in Stamford - an absolutely beautiful town. I spent many a happy half-hour at the station bookshop as I waited for trains after a walk. They've now moved up the hill out of town - although sadly (though not for my bookcases) I've not been to their newish place yet.

    https://www.roberthummbooks.co.uk/
    Stamford is a wonderful town. Should be part of Greater Rutland .. :smiley:
This discussion has been closed.