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Time to over analyse things – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    ydoethur said:

    It has not been Ferrari's day, has it?

    There’s going to be 100,000 sad and wet Tifosi, with long journeys home.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,353

    Bit of comic relief

    NYT ($) - Tucker Carlson Has a Cure for Declining Virility
    A promo for an upcoming Fox show describes a testosterone “calamity” among American men, along with an unlikely treatment.

    Wonder if this Fucker has given free samples to his buddies Putin and 45?

    Certainly seems to me he & they have all got serious drooping pecker problem.

    Initially I read that as a Porno for Fox News.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Sean_F said:

    Bit of comic relief

    NYT ($) - Tucker Carlson Has a Cure for Declining Virility
    A promo for an upcoming Fox show describes a testosterone “calamity” among American men, along with an unlikely treatment.

    Wonder if this Fucker has given free samples to his buddies Putin and 45?

    Certainly seems to me he & they have all got serious drooping pecker problem.

    Initially I read that as a Porno for Fox News.
    Fair comment, as he is an obscene little Fucker.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Who'd have thought that Bruno Fernandes's penalty wouldn't be the worst of the weekend?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone

    Won't be there long.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    dixiedean said:

    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone

    Won't be there long.
    Season ends next month.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Well you can say 'isn't insignificant' but frankly form a nation the size and wealth of Germany, that looks like a token effort to me.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited April 2022
    Genuinely think Everton could be going down for the first time in living memory for all but those aged 75+. Really could do with something out of today’s game, and that is highly unlikely.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.facebook.com/gi0rtn/posts/10160037590461948

    It was this piece from Gerry Lynch that persusaded me that Le Pen is good value, as a bet. To be clear, Gerry Lynch detests everything that Le Pen stands for, (he's an Alliance Party activists) but he is an outstanding number cruncher.

    Ladbrokes are offering 12/1 on Le Pen at the moment. While I get the point about it's hard to see the polls offering anything but a Macron win, I'm not sure that's right in a 2 horse-race. The other bet that might be attractive is 9/4 at Macron winning 50-55% share if you think he'll win but abstentions will hit his margin.
    18.5 betfair exchange. just had a tenner.
    Cheers for that, will take a look
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    First French results in

    Afternoon all, if not already posted the first French results are already in (via Belgian media :))

    Most of the western hemisphere DOM-TOM where Melenchon did very well in Round 1 have gone heavily for Le Pen, below is her score and change on Round 2 2017:

    Guadeloupe 69.6 +44.7
    Martinique 60.9 +38.4
    Guiana 60.7 +25.6
    Saint Martin/Saint Barthélemy 55.4 +20.5
    Saint Pierre & Miquelon 50.7 +14.0

    French Polynesia Macron 51.8 Le Pen +6.6

    Thanks

    DC

    Where's the spreadsheet when you need it.....
    Get your money on people......
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    @IshmaelZ just sent you a message
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited April 2022

    Genuinely think Everton could be going down for the first time in living memory for all but those aged 75+. Really could do with something out of today’s game, and that is highly unlikely.

    Calvert-Lewin injured again. That is basically their only out and out striker who is any good.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: reasonably good race. Next up is Miami, which will be in the late(ish) evening, UK time.

    Scrawling the post-race tosh now.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: reasonably good race. Next up is Miami, which will be in the late(ish) evening, UK time.

    Scrawling the post-race tosh now.

    I thought it was boring AF
  • If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    F1: hmm, think the official site is wrong.

    Has Leclerc 79 and Verstappen 51.

    But Verstappen's won two races and the sprint, which is 58 (possibly plus a fastest lap here).
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,353

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    And there was I thinking I was getting good odds at 11-2 with Paddy Power.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    F1: hmm, think the official site is wrong.

    Has Leclerc 79 and Verstappen 51.

    But Verstappen's won two races and the sprint, which is 58 (possibly plus a fastest lap here).

    He is on 59. 25+8+25+1
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Sandpit, I'm perplexed as to how a 51 total can be reached, given that has to specifically include the Imola race, but not the sprint...

    Mr. Gate, not the best of the year but it had its moments.

    Alfa Romeo was looking pretty tasty. Well, Bottas'.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited April 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MrEd said:

    @IshmaelZ just sent you a message

    All done
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Mr. Sandpit, I'm perplexed as to how a 51 total can be reached, given that has to specifically include the Imola race, but not the sprint...

    Mr. Gate, not the best of the year but it had its moments.

    Alfa Romeo was looking pretty tasty. Well, Bottas'.

    51 would be if the sprint wasn’t included.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited April 2022
    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Sandpit, well, yes, but that seems an odd omission to make as the race followed the sprint.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone

    Won't be there long.
    Season ends next month.
    Shoulda poached Eddie Howe!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    If it was in any way close, we’d start to be picking up on signs of panic in the markets wouldn’t we? Macron’s team must be well sighted.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    I don't know, but I'd want to look at religious (especially Christian/Muslim) makeup.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    Mr. Sandpit, I'm perplexed as to how a 51 total can be reached, given that has to specifically include the Imola race, but not the sprint...

    Mr. Gate, not the best of the year but it had its moments.

    Alfa Romeo was looking pretty tasty. Well, Bottas'.

    Yes, now about Bottas being not good enough for Mercedes...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,353

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
    Melenchon would have been in with a good chance of winning, had he reached the last two (which he nearly did).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,353
    biggles said:

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    If it was in any way close, we’d start to be picking up on signs of panic in the markets wouldn’t we? Macron’s team must be well sighted.
    But, remember the Brexit betting.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Black Caribbeans voting heavily for Le Pen? Can't be. I'll eat my beret* if those results are correct!

    * hat-tip late Paddy Ashdown!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Sandpit, I'm perplexed as to how a 51 total can be reached, given that has to specifically include the Imola race, but not the sprint...

    Mr. Gate, not the best of the year but it had its moments.

    Alfa Romeo was looking pretty tasty. Well, Bottas'.

    Yes, now about Bottas being not good enough for Mercedes...
    VB does seem to be enjoying himself much more this season, even though he’s not fighting for wins. A great drive from him today.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    I don't know, but I'd want to look at religious (especially Christian/Muslim) makeup.
    Mayotte in the Indian Ocean is the only French overseas territory with a Muslim majority (99% approx).
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Genuinely think Everton could be going down for the first time in living memory for all but those aged 75+. Really could do with something out of today’s game, and that is highly unlikely.

    Calvert-Lewin injured again. That is basically their only out and out striker who is any good.
    Mind you he does a few ads so all is good.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Genuinely think Everton could be going down for the first time in living memory for all but those aged 75+. Really could do with something out of today’s game, and that is highly unlikely.

    IIRC, Everton has the longest unbroken run in the top division of English football.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    @IshmaelZ just sent you a message

    All done
    Thank you, much appreciated.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,353

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
    Almost a quarter of Melenchon's votes (1.66m) came from Paris and its suburbs, and I'd expect few of those to go to Le Pen.

    But, I think that in post industrial France, and the South East, a lot of his voters could break for her.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Sandpit said:

    Genuinely think Everton could be going down for the first time in living memory for all but those aged 75+. Really could do with something out of today’s game, and that is highly unlikely.

    IIRC, Everton has the longest unbroken run in the top division of English football.
    Nope, that would be Arsenal.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    I don't know, but I'd want to look at religious (especially Christian/Muslim) makeup.
    I would go for that. I don't think Muslim voters in Metropolitan France (especially around Paris) will go for MLP. But they may stay at home, especially given the view that Macron was on course for victory. I'm assuming they can't report what is being said in Belgium in France itself due to the election laws.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    I don't know, but I'd want to look at religious (especially Christian/Muslim) makeup.
    Mayotte in the Indian Ocean is the only French overseas territory with a Muslim majority (99% approx).
    Thanks.

    Anyone know how that compares with the profile of Melenchon voters in the hexagon?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone

    Impressive by Toon to make top half, as the coffers havent really opened yet, and much as I rated Wood at Leicester, he isnt a top half striker.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
    I think both of those have validity but I think the religious make up will be the main issue
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone

    Wouldn’t be a surprise to see Leeds go down. Their form has been awful.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,911
    Sean_F said:

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
    Almost a quarter of Melenchon's votes (1.66m) came from Paris and its suburbs, and I'd expect few of those to go to Le Pen.

    But, I think that in post industrial France, and the South East, a lot of his voters could break for her.
    South East as in Marseilles to Nice? I know it has a reputation for supporting the right but that sounds a bit counter intuitive in the case of Le Pen
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Foxy said:

    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone

    Impressive by Toon to make top half, as the coffers havent really opened yet, and much as I rated Wood at Leicester, he isnt a top half striker.
    Guimares has been pretty special and Joelinton has come into his own as a box to box midfielder.

    Wood has a decent strike rate for the top flight so it made sense to buy him but next season he will be a minor squad player.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Genuinely think Everton could be going down for the first time in living memory for all but those aged 75+. Really could do with something out of today’s game, and that is highly unlikely.

    IIRC, Everton has the longest unbroken run in the top division of English football.
    Nope, that would be Arsenal.
    Yeah, you’re right there. Arsenal, then Everton. Mea culpa, that’s what happens when you post stats without looking them up first!
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    Turnout 17:00 CET - 63.2% down 2.1% on 2017.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,353
    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
    Almost a quarter of Melenchon's votes (1.66m) came from Paris and its suburbs, and I'd expect few of those to go to Le Pen.

    But, I think that in post industrial France, and the South East, a lot of his voters could break for her.
    South East as in Marseilles to Nice? I know it has a reputation for supporting the right but that sounds a bit counter intuitive in the case of Le Pen
    Le Pen won 44% in Provence-Alpes-Cote de Mere in 2017, so it would be surprising if she didn't reach 50%+ today.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    People into history, and Mr. Eagles, might be interested in this collaborative playlist regarding Ukraine, which is also a fundraiser.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Iwn29G4CfA&list=PLaBYW76inbX4jqNGixaoL1xQ_pMwNGIXG
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
    Almost a quarter of Melenchon's votes (1.66m) came from Paris and its suburbs, and I'd expect few of those to go to Le Pen.

    But, I think that in post industrial France, and the South East, a lot of his voters could break for her.
    South East as in Marseilles to Nice? I know it has a reputation for supporting the right but that sounds a bit counter intuitive in the case of Le Pen
    Will this be @Roger tonight when we get the results?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNjhzW3fiNg
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited April 2022
    I think we've all definitely seen some of this closer to home in some obvious quarters.

    We need to introduce @saschalobo's superb term #lumpenpacifism to the English language.

    https://spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzp

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    biggles said:

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    If it was in any way close, we’d start to be picking up on signs of panic in the markets wouldn’t we? Macron’s team must be well sighted.
    It's Sunday, the markets are closed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    dixiedean said:

    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone

    Won't be there long.
    Season ends next month.

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone

    Won't be there long.
    Season ends next month.
    Shoulda poached Eddie Howe!
    Well.
    He is an Evertonian too.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    edited April 2022
    @dixiedean Newcastle's last game is Burnley away... :D
  • TimmycoolTimmycool Posts: 15

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: reasonably good race. Next up is Miami, which will be in the late(ish) evening, UK time.

    Scrawling the post-race tosh now.

    We booked our flights for Miami in anticipation of the GP but eventually the cheapest 3 day ticket you could buy was $1800!! Compared to Austin General Admission at $150 it was a no go. Instead we have spent $70 for the best seats in the house at Darlington Raceway in South Carolina for the Nascar race on the same weekend. Should be a hoot. I can take my Maga hat, which a work colleague bought me back from a US trip in early 2016 as an ironic present!! At least, it seemed ironic in 2016...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
    I think both of those have validity but I think the religious make up will be the main issue
    Just did quick google/wiki check:
    > Guadeloupe = 80% Catholic
    > Martinique = 90% Christian

    Without looking at others, am somewhat skeptical re: religion as key differential?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Genuinely think Everton could be going down for the first time in living memory for all but those aged 75+. Really could do with something out of today’s game, and that is highly unlikely.

    IIRC, Everton has the longest unbroken run in the top division of English football.
    Nope, that would be Arsenal.
    Yeah, you’re right there. Arsenal, then Everton. Mea culpa, that’s what happens when you post stats without looking them up first!
    Most top flight seasons you'll be thinking of.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Well, I've put a very small sum on Le Pen because of the chance she pulls out of of the hat.

    So, I'm very green on Macron (bought just before round one), and have now more than covered my stake with a bet on Le Pen.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    @dixiedean Newcastle's last game is Burnley away... :D

    Yep. And ours is Arsenal. Who'll probably need 3 for the Top 4.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    It does seem hard to believe they could be defeated so comprehensively, even if Ukraine were able and willing to launch the kind of city smashing assault that would presumably be needed to push the Russians out of the cities taken in 2014.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    With two wins in two games, and an easier run in than Everton, could Burnley really dodge the drop?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    rcs1000 said:

    Well, I've put a very small sum on Le Pen because of the chance she pulls out of of the hat.

    So, I'm very green on Macron (bought just before round one), and have now more than covered my stake with a bet on Le Pen.

    Backing both horses in a two horse race is the epitome of hedging your bets.

    Trading to be in profit whatever the outcome is the sensible strategy.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    rcs1000 said:

    With two wins in two games, and an easier run in than Everton, could Burnley really dodge the drop?

    Yes, and I'm not sure why there's much surprise about it. Just look at the goal difference. 538 have been bullish on Burnley all season:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/soccer-predictions/premier-league/

    Huge game for Leeds tomorrow night.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    dixiedean said:

    @dixiedean Newcastle's last game is Burnley away... :D

    Yep. And ours is Arsenal. Who'll probably need 3 for the Top 4.
    Playing Leicester on 8 May, but our team will be knackered after playing Roma away on the Thursday. Particularly our midfield as we havent been rotating them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Cool, sorry to hear it would've been so pricey. Hope you have a great time watching NASCAR.

    F1 price-gouging and greed is sad to hear but not necessarily surprising, alas.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited April 2022
    Police have issued a warning to drivers after a motorist was clocked at 148mph on an Ayrshire road.

    Anybody heard from PB own Scottish speed merchant?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
    I think both of those have validity but I think the religious make up will be the main issue
    Just did quick google/wiki check:
    > Guadeloupe = 80% Catholic
    > Martinique = 90% Christian

    Without looking at others, am somewhat skeptical re: religion as key differential?
    I think the idea is that the Muslim vote won't go Le Pen, at least around Paris and the big cities.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    More likely is that, if that scenario was looming, Russia would declare victory with the gains it had and then expect the West to tell Ukraine to stop fighting given the effect it is having on the world economy. TBH, though, if that is their thinking, I suspect they are in for a shock.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Decent start by Everton. But the ref clearly knows what the result should be and wants to help it along it's way.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    It does seem hard to believe they could be defeated so comprehensively, even if Ukraine were able and willing to launch the kind of city smashing assault that would presumably be needed to push the Russians out of the cities taken in 2014.
    I think the Russians retreating to the 2014 positions is quite possible. They are getting the same treatment at Izium that they got near Kyiv.

    I can see retaking Kherson will be hard for Ukraine, but that may well be the plan.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Does anyone know when the exit polls come out for France?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    Just to distract from France - there are national elections in Slovenia today too. From my limited understanding a new party formed in 2021 looks likely to end up as the largest :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Movement_(Slovenia)
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    More likely is that, if that scenario was looming, Russia would declare victory with the gains it had and then expect the West to tell Ukraine to stop fighting given the effect it is having on the world economy. TBH, though, if that is their thinking, I suspect they are in for a shock.
    Too many egos on either side when most people just want a solution that takes away a nuclear war - the west does not have to win - we are talking about the end of civilisation here not a playground fight
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Great to see the scouse mackems in the relegation zone

    Won't be there long.
    Season ends next month.
    Shoulda poached Eddie Howe!
    As French President?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited April 2022
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    It does seem hard to believe they could be defeated so comprehensively, even if Ukraine were able and willing to launch the kind of city smashing assault that would presumably be needed to push the Russians out of the cities taken in 2014.
    I think the Russians retreating to the 2014 positions is quite possible. They are getting the same treatment at Izium that they got near Kyiv.

    I can see retaking Kherson will be hard for Ukraine, but that may well be the plan.
    The South is the tricky problem. Russia are strong because of the supply lines through Crimea and Ukraine could never agree to give up that land as part of a potential peace settlement.
  • DavidL said:

    Does anyone know when the exit polls come out for France?

    I do not but macron has obviously won.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    DavidL said:

    Does anyone know when the exit polls come out for France?

    7pm UK time (I think)
  • ohnotnow said:

    Just to distract from France - there are national elections in Slovenia today too. From my limited understanding a new party formed in 2021 looks likely to end up as the largest :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Movement_(Slovenia)

    Those countries are crazy, no democracy.
  • Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    MrEd said:

    If you are betting on Le Pen would have thought the best value bet is her to win 50-55%, currently 21 on BF?

    Agreed.

    Question for the PB.com collective: assuming those numbers from the DOM-TOMs are right, what would be the arguments for saying that Melenchon voters in Metropolitan France will vote differently from the DOM-TOMs?

    (I guess one answer is to see the correlation between the two in the second round in 2017 but I don't have the numbers to hand)
    My own barely-educated "explanation" is two-fold:
    > localized issues; and
    > DOM-TOMs voters being more dependent on the traditional "feather-bedding" of French employment laws, regulations, etc. than in "continental" France (im)proper? [edit] thus more anti-Macron due to his policies.
    Almost a quarter of Melenchon's votes (1.66m) came from Paris and its suburbs, and I'd expect few of those to go to Le Pen.

    But, I think that in post industrial France, and the South East, a lot of his voters could break for her.
    South East as in Marseilles to Nice? I know it has a reputation for supporting the right but that sounds a bit counter intuitive in the case of Le Pen
    I'd expect Le Pen to win quite a few of the departments on the Med coast if she gets into the mid 40s overall.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    kle4 said:


    It does seem hard to believe they could be defeated so comprehensively, even if Ukraine were able and willing to launch the kind of city smashing assault that would presumably be needed to push the Russians out of the cities taken in 2014.

    Still we search for a plausible "end" to this.

    As I've said before, Putin has been scrupulously careful not to cross the line of actively attacking a NATO country or its territory. Neither Ukraine nor Moldova are NATO members but of course Poland and Romania are

    We supply weapons but the Cold War was replete with examples of the US and Soviet Union supplying one side or the other (and in the case of the Ogaden War, both). Proxy conflicts or conflicts where one side's troops were involved (Vietnam, Afghanistan) also occurred but the West did not intervene in Hungary or Czechoslovakia so there were "rules" of a sort back then.

    Ultimately, on the assumption there is no escalation (and we can treat the blood-curdling propaganda for what it is, hopefully), there will either be a political/diplomatic resolution or the conflict will de-escalate into a series of periodic skirmishes behind new lines.

    Neither side is in a position to be magnanimous, neither side is in a position to accept an armistice which demonstrably looks like a defeat. Thus, the fighting, the dying and the ruination of Ukraine continues.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    edited April 2022
    Andy_JS said:
    Would it be unethical to use the popularity of this blog to start a rumour she has it in the bag, extract some winnings, and then go back to the football?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    It does seem hard to believe they could be defeated so comprehensively, even if Ukraine were able and willing to launch the kind of city smashing assault that would presumably be needed to push the Russians out of the cities taken in 2014.
    I think the Russians retreating to the 2014 positions is quite possible. They are getting the same treatment at Izium that they got near Kyiv.

    I can see retaking Kherson will be hard for Ukraine, but that may well be the plan.
    The South is the tricky problem. Russia are strong because of the supply lines through Crimea and Ukraine could never agree to give up that land as part of a potential peace settlement.
    I'm quite optimistic the Ukrainians will get back Kherson because it's clear there is quite strong opposition in the City and the risk for a Russian garrison is that they get cut off if the Ukrainians maximise the artillery and other supplies coming in.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Most unsurprising headline of the day:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61207801

    Conservative Party Chairman backs Conservative Prime Minister.

    I'm sure when Johnson fires him after the bad local election results, Dowden will still say how wonderful the Prime Minister is and how his failure as Chairman in no way reflects on the Prime Minister etc, etc.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    More likely is that, if that scenario was looming, Russia would declare victory with the gains it had and then expect the West to tell Ukraine to stop fighting given the effect it is having on the world economy. TBH, though, if that is their thinking, I suspect they are in for a shock.
    Too many egos on either side when most people just want a solution that takes away a nuclear war - the west does not have to win - we are talking about the end of civilisation here not a playground fight
    Given the only side threatening nuclear war is Russia's regime: what is your proposed 'solution' to the war that would stop him ever threatening their use again?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Timmycool said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: reasonably good race. Next up is Miami, which will be in the late(ish) evening, UK time.

    Scrawling the post-race tosh now.

    We booked our flights for Miami in anticipation of the GP but eventually the cheapest 3 day ticket you could buy was $1800!! Compared to Austin General Admission at $150 it was a no go. Instead we have spent $70 for the best seats in the house at Darlington Raceway in South Carolina for the Nascar race on the same weekend. Should be a hoot. I can take my Maga hat, which a work colleague bought me back from a US trip in early 2016 as an ironic present!! At least, it seemed ironic in 2016...
    Ditch the hat, but if possible check out racing reportage of Marty Smith & Ian McGee aka Marty & McGee. These guys are serious fans, esp. McGee.

    For sample of their "work" from last year, check this out:

    https://www.espn.com/auto/story/_/id/31149101/formula-one-2021-opening-weekend-marty-mcgee-take-los-angeles

    Highlight of their radio show is "Hillbilly Headlines". Last show they discussed upcoming race featuring grandson of Dale Earnhardt Sr. as well as extended discussion of potamology.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone know when the exit polls come out for France?

    I do not but macron has obviously won.

    DavidL said:

    Does anyone know when the exit polls come out for France?

    I do not but macron has obviously won.
    Yes but has he won 60-65% he asks disinterestedly?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580
    stodge said:

    kle4 said:


    It does seem hard to believe they could be defeated so comprehensively, even if Ukraine were able and willing to launch the kind of city smashing assault that would presumably be needed to push the Russians out of the cities taken in 2014.

    Still we search for a plausible "end" to this.

    As I've said before, Putin has been scrupulously careful not to cross the line of actively attacking a NATO country or its territory. Neither Ukraine nor Moldova are NATO members but of course Poland and Romania are

    We supply weapons but the Cold War was replete with examples of the US and Soviet Union supplying one side or the other (and in the case of the Ogaden War, both). Proxy conflicts or conflicts where one side's troops were involved (Vietnam, Afghanistan) also occurred but the West did not intervene in Hungary or Czechoslovakia so there were "rules" of a sort back then.

    Ultimately, on the assumption there is no escalation (and we can treat the blood-curdling propaganda for what it is, hopefully), there will either be a political/diplomatic resolution or the conflict will de-escalate into a series of periodic skirmishes behind new lines.

    Neither side is in a position to be magnanimous, neither side is in a position to accept an armistice which demonstrably looks like a defeat. Thus, the fighting, the dying and the ruination of Ukraine continues.

    "As I've said before, Putin has been scrupulously careful not to cross the line of actively attacking a NATO country or its territory. Neither Ukraine nor Moldova are NATO members but of course Poland and Romania are."

    There are reasons to be positive about that. However, it should be remembered that Putin's regime have launched attacks against a NATO country - our own. Litvinenko and Salisbury poisonings are worrying signs that Putin does not see the use of WMD in quite the same way we do...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    It does seem hard to believe they could be defeated so comprehensively, even if Ukraine were able and willing to launch the kind of city smashing assault that would presumably be needed to push the Russians out of the cities taken in 2014.
    I think the Russians retreating to the 2014 positions is quite possible. They are getting the same treatment at Izium that they got near Kyiv.

    I can see retaking Kherson will be hard for Ukraine, but that may well be the plan.
    The South is the tricky problem. Russia are strong because of the supply lines through Crimea and Ukraine could never agree to give up that land as part of a potential peace settlement.
    The problem Ukraine has is that the people who live in Crimea now... well, those people are mostly Russian.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Timmycool said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: reasonably good race. Next up is Miami, which will be in the late(ish) evening, UK time.

    Scrawling the post-race tosh now.

    We booked our flights for Miami in anticipation of the GP but eventually the cheapest 3 day ticket you could buy was $1800!! Compared to Austin General Admission at $150 it was a no go. Instead we have spent $70 for the best seats in the house at Darlington Raceway in South Carolina for the Nascar race on the same weekend. Should be a hoot. I can take my Maga hat, which a work colleague bought me back from a US trip in early 2016 as an ironic present!! At least, it seemed ironic in 2016...
    Ditch the hat, but if possible check out racing reportage of Marty Smith & Ian McGee aka Marty & McGee. These guys are serious fans, esp. McGee.

    For sample of their "work" from last year, check this out:

    https://www.espn.com/auto/story/_/id/31149101/formula-one-2021-opening-weekend-marty-mcgee-take-los-angeles

    Highlight of their radio show is "Hillbilly Headlines". Last show they discussed upcoming race featuring grandson of Dale Earnhardt Sr. as well as extended discussion of potamology.
    If you’re going to the NASCAR, get a “Let’s Go Brandon” hat.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited April 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    It does seem hard to believe they could be defeated so comprehensively, even if Ukraine were able and willing to launch the kind of city smashing assault that would presumably be needed to push the Russians out of the cities taken in 2014.
    I think the Russians retreating to the 2014 positions is quite possible. They are getting the same treatment at Izium that they got near Kyiv.

    I can see retaking Kherson will be hard for Ukraine, but that may well be the plan.
    The South is the tricky problem. Russia are strong because of the supply lines through Crimea and Ukraine could never agree to give up that land as part of a potential peace settlement.
    The problem Ukraine has is that the people who live in Crimea now... well, those people are mostly Russian.
    Sorry maybe I wasn't clear, I wasn't suggesting Ukraine will ask for Crimea back, I meant the south of what is now Ukraine i.e. Mariupol, Kherson, etc. Ukraine can never agree to giving up that land, both because of the people who live there aren't desperately keen to be part of Russia, but also economically they are major export hubs.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    It does seem hard to believe they could be defeated so comprehensively, even if Ukraine were able and willing to launch the kind of city smashing assault that would presumably be needed to push the Russians out of the cities taken in 2014.
    I think the Russians retreating to the 2014 positions is quite possible. They are getting the same treatment at Izium that they got near Kyiv.

    I can see retaking Kherson will be hard for Ukraine, but that may well be the plan.
    The South is the tricky problem. Russia are strong because of the supply lines through Crimea and Ukraine could never agree to give up that land as part of a potential peace settlement.
    The problem Ukraine has is that the people who live in Crimea now... well, those people are mostly Russian.
    The people in southern Ukraine were mostly Ukranians - and that didn’t stop Putin.

    Ukraine wants their country back, to the pre-2014 border. Putin started the war, not Ukraine.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Don't forget elections in Slovenia as well today - not sure when the polls close.

    Turnout much higher - reported to be 49.3% at 5pm (BST).
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine if the UK was doing this....

    Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor, claimed to be delivering on his promise to send arms to Ukraine — but was revealed by the tabloid Bild to have secretly refused every item of heavy equipment requested by Kyiv. After Scholz had crossed tanks and artillery off the list, an aid package said to be worth €1 billion (£836 million) had been reduced by more than two thirds.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/24/arrogant-incompetent-corrupt-war-shattering-delusions-german/

    Party hats and Soviet era defective and mouldy weapons. While they sold actual useful arms to Russia.

    Though what Germany has actually sorted isn't insignificant:


    Ukraine have outlined what they need and why they need it. Now the Russian tactics have changed, it isn't simply about weapons, weapons, weapons.

    Ukraine have stated the specifics of the types of weaponry they require, different countries have different elements of this, none of the kit they actually have asked Germany for has been sent.

    Its left to the US to provide more of the heavy weapons (and seems in combination with UK surveillance to assist with its usage).

    Ukraine War: Heavy weapons heading to Ukraine?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG2JAOdOt4s
    The UK is expected to deliver 20 AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and 45,000 shells to Ukraine this week. The equipment will be first send to Poland, where Ukrainian troops will train on them.
    https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1518205018230472706
    We’re reaching the point where the war is at serious risk of metastasising.

    Just an observation, not a comment on whether we/the poles are doing the right thing.

    Dark clouds hang over Europe.
    Yes, you have to wonder. At this stage there are no good options. It could very quickly escalate. The Ukraine govt and top level US diplomats are about to have discussions and more arms will be supplied. One has to wonder what the exit strategy is for Putin and Russia.
    At some point soon, they are going to come to the realisation that the Ukranians have access to effectively unlimited military equipment and training, while their own forces are being rapidly depleted. Six months more of this, and there will barely be a Russian military, bar whatever unconventional weapons they can get serviceable.

    Importantly, if the sanctions hold he’ll be unable to get replacement weapons manufactured, will be relying on China to actively join in - at which point we really are in WWIII.
    If we're on track for WW3 we ought to change direction. But I don't think we are. I think Putin will consolidate a limited gain of territory and proclaim victory. The situation will then move from this 'hot' war in Ukraine to whatever you call a tense unstable stand-off between Russia and the West.
    That's possible but I think that Ukraine are quite capable of ousting the Russians from all their gains and then the 2014 territories come into play. A palpable Russian military collapse is also conceivable and how would that affect the Russian political dynamic? God knows. The pace of the Russian defeat may be significant.
    I'm the very opposite of expert on military matters but I'd be surprised if Russia were to lose this war to quite that extent. Of course (with the caveat of no crazy 'back against the wall' nuclear action from Putin) it would be great if I'm wrong.
    More likely is that, if that scenario was looming, Russia would declare victory with the gains it had and then expect the West to tell Ukraine to stop fighting given the effect it is having on the world economy. TBH, though, if that is their thinking, I suspect they are in for a shock.
    Too many egos on either side when most people just want a solution that takes away a nuclear war - the west does not have to win - we are talking about the end of civilisation here not a playground fight
    Nobody is in control of events when a war starts. Although I'll admit to a strong emotional biase my reading of numerous reports and credible analyses is that the Russians have been heavily defeated so far and that although they have certain advantages for the southern based phase they are weakening whilst Ukraine is strengthening. I'd be very surprised if a comprehensive defeat of Russia and roll-back doesn't happen in the next month or two. The other thing to consider is that the break away statelets have been psycho run hell holes so how much de-Russification has taken place over past few years? I'd wager that if there was a properly run set of votes Ukraine would gain the 2014 territory and I'm not sure I'd bet on Crimea.
This discussion has been closed.