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The Ukraine war as seen from Estonia – politicalbetting.com

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  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Carnyx said:

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Lukewarm on NATO myself as I think it varies between being a truly defensive alliance and a projection of not always healthy US influence. I'd be delighted if Sweden and Finland joined, as they would weight the "defensive alliance" end of things.
    “not always healthy US influence”

    Help me here: I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms. But let’s omit popular culture from the reckoning.)
    Women's lib, gay lib - tended to be pioneered over there. Albeit only parts of the USA.

    The suffragettes got going on that issue long over five decades ago. Plenty of pioneering social reform movements in the rest of the world outwith the US.
    The Equality State of Wyoming says hello! Remember 1869!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kle4 said:

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    We haven’t been at war for 200 years
    Is that right? Fortunate folk indeed, feel like even if you have the right policies you need to get lucky to avoid it for that long.
    https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/5938468
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941
    .
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Good looking, polite, early to condemn Johnson. But also probably a lot of an unknown character that they can prohect their hopes on.
    Thx. Words fail me.
    Yes, he seems an averagely competent and fairly decent MP, but I’ve not seen much remarkable about him, FWIW.
    It’s possible to shine as a select committee chair - Bryant for example has greatly enhanced his reputation in the last couple of years - but I don’t think Tugendhat really has. His interventions on Afghanistan, which originally brought him to public notice, were definitely hindsight rather than prescient.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,574
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
    The pounds and ounces is well enough documented from Tory MPs. The queuing is the well reported problems at Dover. The rest is me being sarcastic.

    BTW you do know that the leader of the Scottish farmers blamed Brexit as a major problem for the industry? But the BBC snipped out the B- word in their broadcast. . So that's OK then when we all starve because of the lack of food security promoted by the Brexiters such as those on here.
    Do you think we are going to starve then? I mean the food options at Waitrose were a bit restricted today, but I didn’t go hungry.
    The way things are going, I'd start worrying if the world situation doesn't improve this year. Fertiliser, grain, etc. will be shorter than usual.
    I saw a Lebanese patient last week. Food and fuel prices are a real problem there as the economy is shit and they have Syrian refugees everywhere. She reckoned riots soon.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Same with ex-MSP Ben Wallace. Genuine question.

    He was a total dud at Holyrood, failing to shine even in the dire SCon parliamentary group, so why is he seen as a superstar at Westminster?
    And has been slavish in his support of phatboi, completely reversing his position at the time of rage that his Afghanistan evac was being compromised because doggies.

    We didn't genuinely think phatboi was fucked even after fpn was paid, until Tuesday and we realised he was. I think we also have yet to grasp that everybody in the Cabinet is fucked too, for standing by him.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,353
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    ANALYSIS: The PM tried to put some distance - 4,000 miles to be exact - between him and Partygate, but this a scandal he just can’t shake, and it seems to be getting to him https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-he-may-be-4-000-miles-away-but-partygate-is-a-scandal-the-pm-just-cant-shake-12595430
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,996
    Stuart Dickson said: "I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms."

    The PEPFAR program, started under George W. Bush, has saved an estimated 20 million lives, most of them in sub-Saharan Africa -- so far. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief)

    I don't know if you would consider that a healthy influence, or not. I'd be interested in hearing your views on the subject. And the views of, for example, Nick Palmer.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    I don't know about anyone else, but I always find it totally convincing when someone who dislikes a party extemporises about what that party's membership will do.
    Sometimes those outside a group can have a better sense of things. Those within cannot see the wood for the trees, as it were. And people are very good at deceiving themselves.

    Of course it doesn't always work, especially where there are many axes to grind.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Do they get Russian trolls on Mumsnet?

    It’s quite an honour to be targeted.

    The thing about the Russian Trolls we've had on here is each one is less substantial than the one before.
    .
    Quite so, longstanding Russian trolls like me know how to be subtle about things and play the long game. These new youthful trolls are just so lazy, it's a disgrace.
    73K posts is a very long game...
    kle4 was hired by Gorbachev but never got his recall notice. Last Soviet agent still standing in the West.
    Do you you think if someone posts the ‘wrong’ (by which I mean right) combination of words, he’ll activate?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    Carnyx said:

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Lukewarm on NATO myself as I think it varies between being a truly defensive alliance and a projection of not always healthy US influence. I'd be delighted if Sweden and Finland joined, as they would weight the "defensive alliance" end of things.
    “not always healthy US influence”

    Help me here: I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms. But let’s omit popular culture from the reckoning.)
    Women's lib, gay lib - tended to be pioneered over there. Albeit only parts of the USA.

    The suffragettes got going on that issue long over five decades ago. Plenty of pioneering social reform movements in the rest of the world outwith the US.
    Indeed, which is why I said 'tended'. There's been so much to and fro over the years.

    Even Spam. Just think of A&B. Which came first?

    http://www.scottishfoodstore.co.uk/online-store.php#!/Grants-A&B-Roll-226g/p/33038523/category=0
  • rcs1000 said:

    @d_d is no more, I'm afraid...

    Posting from blacklisted IPs is a no-no. (Albeit there's one other poster I have not sectioned for this crime yet, because I'm a big softie.)

    Was it a humane death, or did you send him to ConHome?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941
    RIP Robert Morse, who got to record his own send off a few years back.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/JimJarmuschHair/status/1517159652357668864
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,505
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Do they get Russian trolls on Mumsnet?

    It’s quite an honour to be targeted.

    The thing about the Russian Trolls we've had on here is each one is less substantial than the one before.
    .
    Quite so, longstanding Russian trolls like me know how to be subtle about things and play the long game. These new youthful trolls are just so lazy, it's a disgrace.
    The quality of the 'special manipulation' went down after they started using so-called 'con scripts'.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,760

    Le Pen now out at 15.

    Like a stone today.

    Getting twitchy my 60-65% bet could lose on the high side!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    ** ahem ** - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/02/09/a-very-dark-horse-for-con-leader/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited April 2022

    kle4 said:

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    We haven’t been at war for 200 years
    Is that right? Fortunate folk indeed, feel like even if you have the right policies you need to get lucky to avoid it for that long.
    https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/5938468
    As a peace movement we can see that peace is so much more than just absence of war. It is about the presence of justice, no poverty, things like that," Gilliam says." If you have a wider view of what peace is you can question whether we've really had 200 years of peace."

    That'd be a bit harsh to say the least!

    What would Gustavus Adolphus say?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719
    edited April 2022
    DavidL said:

    Le Pen now out at 15.

    Like a stone today.

    Getting twitchy my 60-65% bet could lose on the high side!
    She is still on 42.5% in a post debate poll taken today, Macron will win but Le Pen will still be almost 10% up on 2017

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1517188639524069379?s=20&t=w4wRbdSWzqfK2XKAXbiFVA
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Do they get Russian trolls on Mumsnet?

    It’s quite an honour to be targeted.

    The thing about the Russian Trolls we've had on here is each one is less substantial than the one before.
    .
    Quite so, longstanding Russian trolls like me know how to be subtle about things and play the long game. These new youthful trolls are just so lazy, it's a disgrace.
    73K posts is a very long game...
    All according to plan, or so I am instructed to believe.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
    The pounds and ounces is well enough documented from Tory MPs. The queuing is the well reported problems at Dover. The rest is me being sarcastic.

    BTW you do know that the leader of the Scottish farmers blamed Brexit as a major problem for the industry? But the BBC snipped out the B- word in their broadcast. . So that's OK then when we all starve because of the lack of food security promoted by the Brexiters such as those on here.
    Do you think we are going to starve then? I mean the food options at Waitrose were a bit restricted today, but I didn’t go hungry.
    The way things are going, I'd start worrying if the world situation doesn't improve this year. Fertiliser, grain, etc. will be shorter than usual.
    I saw a Lebanese patient last week. Food and fuel prices are a real problem there as the economy is shit and they have Syrian refugees everywhere. She reckoned riots soon.
    The UK does need to import a lot of wheat (hard bread wheat) for human consumption, and other crops partly for animal feed. So ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,088
    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    We haven’t been at war for 200 years
    Is that right? Fortunate folk indeed, feel like even if you have the right policies you need to get lucky to avoid it for that long.
    https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/5938468
    As a peace movement we can see that peace is so much more than just absence of war. It is about the presence of justice, no poverty, things like that," Gilliam says." If you have a wider view of what peace is you can question whether we've really had 200 years of peace."

    That'd be a bit harsh to say the least!

    What would Gustavus Adolphus say?
    What he said when his nice new flagship turned turtle?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,996
    Cicero is in a better position than I to say whether Estonians agree with Dickson. This award suggests they don't: https://estonianworld.com/security/ex-president-ilves-presents-estonias-highest-award-to-former-us-president-bush/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719
    edited April 2022

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    Baker will not get to the final 2 even if he stands.

    At the moment the likeliest final 2 would be Hunt and Wallace in my view from MPs, with members then voting clearly for Wallace
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Scott_xP said:
    WTF is radge? Is that a Scottish word?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,760
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Le Pen now out at 15.

    Like a stone today.

    Getting twitchy my 60-65% bet could lose on the high side!
    She is still on 42.5% in a post debate poll taken today, Macron will win but Le Pen will still be almost 10% up on 2017

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1517188639524069379?s=20&t=w4wRbdSWzqfK2XKAXbiFVA
    But that puts Macron on 57.5% already and when you add and detract their respective tendencies to over or under perform we are very much in the right band. A further collapse in Le Pen support would be a threat to my winnings!
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899
    Nigelb said:

    Additional US military aid package for Ukraine includes more than 121 Phoenix Ghost systems — Pentagon. They are similar to armed Switchblade drones but were operatively developed for the needs of Ukraine
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1517243718880931840

    Unclear what it is, other than the same concept as Switchblade.

    My hunch is that is was something that was already being developed for Special Operations Command that the DOD has decided to give to Ukraine as it's a good fit with their requirements. SOCOM has had a lot of loitering munitions programmes, and Phoenix Ghost is probably the result of one of them, rather than something entirely new.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Lukewarm on NATO myself as I think it varies between being a truly defensive alliance and a projection of not always healthy US influence. I'd be delighted if Sweden and Finland joined, as they would weight the "defensive alliance" end of things.
    “not always healthy US influence”

    Help me here: I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms. But let’s omit popular culture from the reckoning.)
    That's a bit unfair. Personally I have a deep love and respect for the US, having lived there for a number of years. There is much that they do really well. But their society is being hollowed out by uncontrolled corporate greed.
    Of course it’s unfair. But I note that you did not answer my query.
    (Thanks @Farooq , who did.)

    I actually thought of one: the Good Friday Agreement.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    ** ahem ** - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/02/09/a-very-dark-horse-for-con-leader/
    How can Hunt be past it? What world are we living in? He can only be in his 50’s.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Le Pen now out at 15.

    Like a stone today.

    Getting twitchy my 60-65% bet could lose on the high side!
    She is still on 42.5% in a post debate poll taken today, Macron will win but Le Pen will still be almost 10% up on 2017

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1517188639524069379?s=20&t=w4wRbdSWzqfK2XKAXbiFVA
    But that puts Macron on 57.5% already and when you add and detract their respective tendencies to over or under perform we are very much in the right band. A further collapse in Le Pen support would be a threat to my winnings!
    Melenchon voters are far less enthusastic for Macron than 2017 and that still shows in the polls.

    Many will simply stay home rather than vote for Macron again, even if they do not vote for Le Pen
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738
    edited April 2022

    Scott_xP said:
    WTF is radge? Is that a Scottish word?
    Yep. DSL Is the southron's friend as always (and the Scot's too - the regional variations are fascinating).

    https://www.dsl.ac.uk/results/radge
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    edited April 2022

    Scott_xP said:
    WTF is radge? Is that a Scottish word?
    Used in NE too.

    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/radge

    Amused to see the Brandling Villa in Gosforth name checked.
    Proppa radge that, man, like.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Scott_xP said:
    WTF is radge? Is that a Scottish word?
    Yes, along the lines of fxxxxxg cxxxt, Scottish

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:
    WTF is radge? Is that a Scottish word?
    Aye.

    https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/radge
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,329
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    WTF is radge? Is that a Scottish word?
    Used in NE too.
    There used to be a beer called Radgie Gadgie too. I think it was Mordue. Had a picture of a demented chap on the tap clip.
  • Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    WTF is radge? Is that a Scottish word?
    Yep. DSL Is the southron's friend as always (and the Scot's too - the regional variations are fascinating).

    https://www.dsl.ac.uk/results/radge
    Oh, it's not a compliment?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    ** ahem ** - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/02/09/a-very-dark-horse-for-con-leader/
    It would be delicious for an unjustly sacked minister to take the crown.

    But the pickle the Conservatives are in is this. Every possible candidate for PM at Christmas 2022 is impossible.

    Johnson? Unthinkable.
    Sunak? Blown it.
    Patel? Clearly mad.
    Hunt/Tugdenhat/Smith? Party isn't ready to make that U-turn.
    And so on.

    And yet- the PM this Christmas is a currently serving Conservative MP. It's just impossible to imagine which one.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
    The pounds and ounces is well enough documented from Tory MPs. The queuing is the well reported problems at Dover. The rest is me being sarcastic.

    BTW you do know that the leader of the Scottish farmers blamed Brexit as a major problem for the industry? But the BBC snipped out the B- word in their broadcast. . So that's OK then when we all starve because of the lack of food security promoted by the Brexiters such as those on here.
    Do you think we are going to starve then? I mean the food options at Waitrose were a bit restricted today, but I didn’t go hungry.
    The way things are going, I'd start worrying if the world situation doesn't improve this year. Fertiliser, grain, etc. will be shorter than usual.
    I watched a dicumentary about the U.K. food supply in WW2, how we went from 50% produced at home, to 90% at the end of the war.
    Clearly not suggesting that we do that again, but reducing food miles is good for the planet.
    Happily my asparagus bed will start cropping in days, and that’s about 400 yards to the plate from the allotment.
    Quite.

    *envious*

    And we have had PBers getting all excited about depending on Australia for food. What was it one of us was getting all frothy about, Jerusalem artichokes or something?
    And did those mouths in modern time
    Scarf up England's artichokes green?
    And was the holy Veg of God
    In England's fragrant kitchens seen?

    . . .

    Bring me my veg of mellow green!
    Bring me my food of wonder!
    Bring me my tasty bud: oh lips unfold!
    Bring me my artichoke of Bognor!

    [apologies to the spirit of William Blake]
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,505
    An interesting anomaly in the ELABE poll is that Marine Le Pen is winning among supporters of Melenchon's party, but behind among people who voted for Melenchon in the first round.

    image
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
    The pounds and ounces is well enough documented from Tory MPs. The queuing is the well reported problems at Dover. The rest is me being sarcastic.

    BTW you do know that the leader of the Scottish farmers blamed Brexit as a major problem for the industry? But the BBC snipped out the B- word in their broadcast. . So that's OK then when we all starve because of the lack of food security promoted by the Brexiters such as those on here.
    Do you think we are going to starve then? I mean the food options at Waitrose were a bit restricted today, but I didn’t go hungry.
    The way things are going, I'd start worrying if the world situation doesn't improve this year. Fertiliser, grain, etc. will be shorter than usual.
    I watched a dicumentary about the U.K. food supply in WW2, how we went from 50% produced at home, to 90% at the end of the war.
    Clearly not suggesting that we do that again, but reducing food miles is good for the planet.
    Happily my asparagus bed will start cropping in days, and that’s about 400 yards to the plate from the allotment.
    Quite.

    *envious*

    And we have had PBers getting all excited about depending on Australia for food. What was it one of us was getting all frothy about, Jerusalem artichokes or something?
    And did those mouths in modern time
    Scarf up England's artichokes green?
    And was the holy Veg of God
    In England's fragrant kitchens seen?

    . . .

    Bring me my veg of mellow green!
    Bring me my food of wonder!
    Bring me my tasty bud: oh lips unfold!
    Bring me my artichoke of Bognor!

    [apologies to the spirit of William Blake]
    We'll be discussing recipes for Glastonbury apple crumble next ...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,617

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    I watched him speak at the debate. He seemed genuinely emotional about it. It is with a heavy heart style.*

    * ™ Robin Cook.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    ** ahem ** - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/02/09/a-very-dark-horse-for-con-leader/
    How can Hunt be past it? What world are we living in? He can only be in his 50’s.
    We no longer give second chances. Leaders used to lose elections and then fight another. They still do in a lot of the world. But unless it was close, and it wasn't, I don't see a former leader candidate getting a look in again.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    I watched him speak at the debate. He seemed genuinely emotional about it. It is with a heavy heart style.*

    * ™ Robin Cook.

    He's one of the more interesting characters on the Tory benches. Holds some views I for one disagree with a lot, and can even seem a bit ridiculous, but he also holds some surprising dissenting opinions, and unlike, say, Rees-Mogg, clearly sticks to his views and thus outsider status.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,574
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    Baker will not get to the final 2 even if he stands.

    At the moment the likeliest final 2 would be Hunt and Wallace in my view from MPs, with members then voting clearly for Wallace
    The new IDS.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941
    edited April 2022
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Additional US military aid package for Ukraine includes more than 121 Phoenix Ghost systems — Pentagon. They are similar to armed Switchblade drones but were operatively developed for the needs of Ukraine
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1517243718880931840

    Unclear what it is, other than the same concept as Switchblade.

    My hunch is that is was something that was already being developed for Special Operations Command that the DOD has decided to give to Ukraine as it's a good fit with their requirements. SOCOM has had a lot of loitering munitions programmes, and Phoenix Ghost is probably the result of one of them, rather than something entirely new.

    The speculation is that it’s just Switchblade modified for the Ukraine requirements. One thing stated is that it requires little or no additional training for those familiar with Switchblade.

    Accompanying kit.
    U.S. aid updated with:

    - 72 155mm howitzers (in addition to the 18 pledged earlier)
    - 72 ''Tactical Vehicles'' (To tow 155mm howitzers)
    - 121+ Phoenix Ghost reconnaissance UAVs

    https://mobile.twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1517214527946956801
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,617
    Le Pen now 18.5
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,617
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    I watched him speak at the debate. He seemed genuinely emotional about it. It is with a heavy heart style.*

    * ™ Robin Cook.

    He's one of the more interesting characters on the Tory benches. Holds some views I for one disagree with a lot, and can even seem a bit ridiculous, but he also holds some surprising dissenting opinions, and unlike, say, Rees-Mogg, clearly sticks to his views and thus outsider status.
    I often don't agree with him, but he does appear to be an MP who sits down and actually thinks about an issue in detail for a long time before speaking.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,519

    Stuart Dickson said: "I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms."

    The PEPFAR program, started under George W. Bush, has saved an estimated 20 million lives, most of them in sub-Saharan Africa -- so far. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief)

    I don't know if you would consider that a healthy influence, or not. I'd be interested in hearing your views on the subject. And the views of, for example, Nick Palmer.

    Your link doesn't work, but that certainly sounds a healthy influence. I'm wary of how US influence has historically been used but that doesn't mean it can't be for good purposes.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,574
    edited April 2022

    An interesting anomaly in the ELABE poll is that Marine Le Pen is winning among supporters of Melenchon's party, but behind among people who voted for Melenchon in the first round.

    image

    I think it was @SouthamObserver who suggested that a lot of soft leftists voted Melenchon so as to keep Le Pen out of the runoff, and came within a percentage of doing so. If so they aren't wedded to his party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719
    edited April 2022
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    Baker will not get to the final 2 even if he stands.

    At the moment the likeliest final 2 would be Hunt and Wallace in my view from MPs, with members then voting clearly for Wallace
    The new IDS.
    Wallace has a higher net favourability than Starmer, +2% to -1%.

    He is the anti Boris, dull but competent and serious with no scandal. If Boris goes he is the heir apparent now

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Keir_Starmer
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Ben_Wallace(popup:search/keir starmer)?content=all
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Stuart Dickson said: "I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms."

    The PEPFAR program, started under George W. Bush, has saved an estimated 20 million lives, most of them in sub-Saharan Africa -- so far. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief)

    I don't know if you would consider that a healthy influence, or not. I'd be interested in hearing your views on the subject. And the views of, for example, Nick Palmer.

    Friend of mine who was a strong Bernie Sanders supporter in 2020, whose views on US foreign policy are even LESS positive that Stuart's, is a HUGE fan of this program, and of W's role in making it happen.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Healthcare worker tests positive for COVID-19 twice in 20 days in world first since pandemic began, study suggests

    The 31-year-old woman from Spain became infected with the Delta variant followed by the Omicron variant of the virus in under three weeks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,574
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    Baker will not get to the final 2 even if he stands.

    At the moment the likeliest final 2 would be Hunt and Wallace in my view from MPs, with members then voting clearly for Wallace
    The new IDS.
    Wallace has a higher net favourability than Starmer, +2% to -1%.

    He is the anti Boris, dull but competent and serious with no scandal. If Boris goes he is the heir apparent now

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Keir_Starmer
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Ben_Wallace(popup:search/keir starmer)?content=all
    He will be thrashed by Starmer at the GE.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    An interesting anomaly in the ELABE poll is that Marine Le Pen is winning among supporters of Melenchon's party, but behind among people who voted for Melenchon in the first round.

    image

    Does this suggest that significant numbers of Melenchon's fellow lefties
    a) abstained first round; and/or
    b) skipped over Melenchon and voted for Le Pen
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,617
    The images from India of Johnson look like someone utterly out of touch with what matters back in UK.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    Healthcare worker tests positive for COVID-19 twice in 20 days in world first since pandemic began, study suggests

    The 31-year-old woman from Spain became infected with the Delta variant followed by the Omicron variant of the virus in under three weeks.

    And how are they? (The only important question).
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,996
    Nick Palmer - Sorry, the parentheses messed up the link; Try this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719
    edited April 2022
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    Baker will not get to the final 2 even if he stands.

    At the moment the likeliest final 2 would be Hunt and Wallace in my view from MPs, with members then voting clearly for Wallace
    The new IDS.
    Wallace has a higher net favourability than Starmer, +2% to -1%.

    He is the anti Boris, dull but competent and serious with no scandal. If Boris goes he is the heir apparent now

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Keir_Starmer
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Ben_Wallace(popup:search/keir starmer)?content=all
    He will be thrashed by Starmer at the GE.
    Starmer is hardly even thrashing Boris now, despite Boris having a much worse net favourable than him of -24%.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Boris_Johnson

    The danger for Starmer is Wallace is Major to his Kinnock if partygate kills off Boris as the poll tax killed off Thatcher in 1990
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Stuart Dickson said: "I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms."

    The PEPFAR program, started under George W. Bush, has saved an estimated 20 million lives, most of them in sub-Saharan Africa -- so far. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief)

    I don't know if you would consider that a healthy influence, or not. I'd be interested in hearing your views on the subject. And the views of, for example, Nick Palmer.

    Your link doesn't work, but that certainly sounds a healthy influence. I'm wary of how US influence has historically been used but that doesn't mean it can't be for good purposes.
    The close bracket has got attached to the link, try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,574
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    Baker will not get to the final 2 even if he stands.

    At the moment the likeliest final 2 would be Hunt and Wallace in my view from MPs, with members then voting clearly for Wallace
    The new IDS.
    Wallace has a higher net favourability than Starmer, +2% to -1%.

    He is the anti Boris, dull but competent and serious with no scandal. If Boris goes he is the heir apparent now

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Keir_Starmer
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Ben_Wallace(popup:search/keir starmer)?content=all
    He will be thrashed by Starmer at the GE.
    Starmer is hardly even thrasing Boris now, despite Boris having a much worse net favourable than him of -24%.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Boris_Johnson

    The danger for Starmer is Wallace is Major to his Kinnock if partygate kills off Boris as the poll tax killed off Thatcher in 1990
    Nah. Wallace is Johnson without the charisma. A one way ticket to the opposition benches.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941

    Stuart Dickson said: "I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms."

    The PEPFAR program, started under George W. Bush, has saved an estimated 20 million lives, most of them in sub-Saharan Africa -- so far. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief)

    I don't know if you would consider that a healthy influence, or not. I'd be interested in hearing your views on the subject. And the views of, for example, Nick Palmer.

    Your link doesn't work, but that certainly sounds a healthy influence. I'm wary of how US influence has historically been used but that doesn't mean it can't be for good purposes.
    US science over the last fifty years has also been enormously beneficial.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    @HYFUD you seem to be implying that Truss has no fans, or even outright enemies in the parliamentary party?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    Baker will not get to the final 2 even if he stands.

    At the moment the likeliest final 2 would be Hunt and Wallace in my view from MPs, with members then voting clearly for Wallace
    The new IDS.
    Wallace has a higher net favourability than Starmer, +2% to -1%.

    He is the anti Boris, dull but competent and serious with no scandal. If Boris goes he is the heir apparent now

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Keir_Starmer
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Ben_Wallace(popup:search/keir starmer)?content=all
    He will be thrashed by Starmer at the GE.
    Starmer is hardly even thrasing Boris now, despite Boris having a much worse net favourable than him of -24%.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Boris_Johnson

    The danger for Starmer is Wallace is Major to his Kinnock if partygate kills off Boris as the poll tax killed off Thatcher in 1990
    Nah. Wallace is Johnson without the charisma. A one way ticket to the opposition benches.
    No he isn't, he has no charisma but then neither does Starmer.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719

    @HYFUD you seem to be implying that Truss has no fans, or even outright enemies in the parliamentary party?

    She has a lot of enemies, certainly amongst the left of the party but is too libertarian for the traditional right as well
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,617
    OMG

    Hunt now fav for next leader on BF
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    OMG

    Hunt now fav for next leader on BF

    LOL.

    I think only a true gotterdammerung in the locals could deliver Hunt. Which is not going to happen.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    UK 12/1 to win Eurovision: must be a clear Lay?
    (Not heard the song, but when did that matter?)

    Ukraine 2.2
    Italy 4.9
    Sweden 8.6
    UK 13
    Spain 24
    Greece 46
    Poland 46
    80 bar
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    HYUFD said:

    @HYFUD you seem to be implying that Truss has no fans, or even outright enemies in the parliamentary party?

    She has a lot of enemies, certainly amongst the left of the party but is too libertarian for the traditional right as well
    Is it anything to do with her “colourful” private life?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,719

    OMG

    Hunt now fav for next leader on BF

    Then they clearly have not a clue about the current party membership
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,574

    OMG

    Hunt now fav for next leader on BF

    At some point the "lay the favourite" strategy fails, and the favourite wins. I don't think that we are there yet though.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
    Well exactly, Javid never even got to the membership because he lost to both Hunt and Gove.

    And now he's got this dodgy tax thing out there in the public.
    And yet when you eliminate the impossible, the unfeasible, and the vanishingly unlikely…
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    Baker will not get to the final 2 even if he stands.

    At the moment the likeliest final 2 would be Hunt and Wallace in my view from MPs, with members then voting clearly for Wallace
    The new IDS.
    Wallace has a higher net favourability than Starmer, +2% to -1%.

    He is the anti Boris, dull but competent and serious with no scandal. If Boris goes he is the heir apparent now

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Keir_Starmer
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Ben_Wallace(popup:search/keir starmer)?content=all
    He will be thrashed by Starmer at the GE.
    Starmer is hardly even thrasing Boris now, despite Boris having a much worse net favourable than him of -24%.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Boris_Johnson

    The danger for Starmer is Wallace is Major to his Kinnock if partygate kills off Boris as the poll tax killed off Thatcher in 1990
    Nah. Wallace is Johnson without the charisma. A one way ticket to the opposition benches.
    Not fair on Wallace, in my opinion.
    I don’t see any resemblance with Johnson, except possibly waist size.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    UK 12/1 to win Eurovision: must be a clear Lay?
    (Not heard the song, but when did that matter?)

    Ukraine 2.2
    Italy 4.9
    Sweden 8.6
    UK 13
    Spain 24
    Greece 46
    Poland 46
    80 bar

    We heard it yesterday. Terrible. As always.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941
    .

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
    Well exactly, Javid never even got to the membership because he lost to both Hunt and Gove.

    And now he's got this dodgy tax thing out there in the public.
    And yet when you eliminate the impossible, the unfeasible, and the vanishingly unlikely…
    You are left with the unappealing but elected.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    UK 12/1 to win Eurovision: must be a clear Lay?
    (Not heard the song, but when did that matter?)

    Ukraine 2.2
    Italy 4.9
    Sweden 8.6
    UK 13
    Spain 24
    Greece 46
    Poland 46
    80 bar

    We heard it yesterday. Terrible. As always.
    Then why the 12/1? Genuine question. It seems bonkers.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited April 2022

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
    Well exactly, Javid never even got to the membership because he lost to both Hunt and Gove.

    And now he's got this dodgy tax thing out there in the public.
    And yet when you eliminate the impossible, the unfeasible, and the vanishingly unlikely…
    Rory Stewart? Or Nicky Fabricant? ADDENDUM - Or Nigela Lawson?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    I can see the Daily Mail headline now.

    “Braveheart” Wallace cries Freedom (from the EU).
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
    Well exactly, Javid never even got to the membership because he lost to both Hunt and Gove.

    And now he's got this dodgy tax thing out there in the public.
    And yet when you eliminate the impossible, the unfeasible, and the vanishingly unlikely…
    You are left with the unappealing but elected.
    Warren G Harding?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,617
    edited April 2022
    HYUFD said:

    OMG

    Hunt now fav for next leader on BF

    Then they clearly have not a clue about the current party membership
    "they" is probably "us" a lot of the time, as we are Political Betting :smile:
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
    Do you think Baker is setting himself as both Johnson's assassin and pretender?
    Baker will not get to the final 2 even if he stands.

    At the moment the likeliest final 2 would be Hunt and Wallace in my view from MPs, with members then voting clearly for Wallace
    The new IDS.
    Wallace has a higher net favourability than Starmer, +2% to -1%.

    He is the anti Boris, dull but competent and serious with no scandal. If Boris goes he is the heir apparent now

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Keir_Starmer
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Ben_Wallace(popup:search/keir starmer)?content=all
    He will be thrashed by Starmer at the GE.
    Starmer is hardly even thrasing Boris now, despite Boris having a much worse net favourable than him of -24%.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Boris_Johnson

    The danger for Starmer is Wallace is Major to his Kinnock if partygate kills off Boris as the poll tax killed off Thatcher in 1990
    Nah. Wallace is Johnson without the charisma. A one way ticket to the opposition benches.
    Depends what the question the Conservatives need to answer is.

    If it's "who wins in 2024?", I doubt that Wallace is the answer. But I'm not sure who is.

    If it's "who minimises the defeat in 2024, and starts the haul back to electibility for 2029?", they could do a lot worse.

    But I bet that isn't the consideration yet.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
    Well exactly, Javid never even got to the membership because he lost to both Hunt and Gove.

    And now he's got this dodgy tax thing out there in the public.
    And yet when you eliminate the impossible, the unfeasible, and the vanishingly unlikely…
    Rory Stewart? Or Nicky Fabricant? ADDENDUM - Or Nigela Lawson?
    Surely John Redwood fancies another go.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941
    Kirby further clarifies that the drone was developed "for a set of requirements that very closely match what Ukrainians need right now in the Donbas"
    https://mobile.twitter.com/laraseligman/status/1517238038128177155

    Anti-artillery ?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    HYUFD said:

    @HYFUD you seem to be implying that Truss has no fans, or even outright enemies in the parliamentary party?

    She has a lot of enemies, certainly amongst the left of the party but is too libertarian for the traditional right as well
    Is it anything to do with her “colourful” private life?
    Didn't think YOU would be the kind to kiss and tell.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    HYUFD said:

    @HYFUD you seem to be implying that Truss has no fans, or even outright enemies in the parliamentary party?

    She has a lot of enemies, certainly amongst the left of the party but is too libertarian for the traditional right as well
    Is it anything to do with her “colourful” private life?
    Didn't think YOU would be the kind to kiss and tell.
    I am trying to put myself in the mind of a curtain-twitching, misogynistic backbench Tory MP.

    WWCCD?

    What would Christopher Chope do?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
    Well exactly, Javid never even got to the membership because he lost to both Hunt and Gove.

    And now he's got this dodgy tax thing out there in the public.
    And yet when you eliminate the impossible, the unfeasible, and the vanishingly unlikely…
    Rory Stewart? Or Nicky Fabricant? ADDENDUM - Or Nigela Lawson?
    Surely John Redwood fancies another go.
    Jeffrey Archer?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,254
    edited April 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
    True, but that was when Johnson was in his ascendency - the polls were extremely clear that a Johnson led Conservative party campaigning on a “get Brexit done“ platform would win handily (although not many predicted the final overwhelming result at the time!).

    Now, however, the Johnson brand is made up of squalid grifts & partying whilst everyone else had to stay at home whilst their relatives died. Consequently Hunt may do better this time around than you expect - at least he‘s a known, safe pair of hands & with Brexit “done” a competent policy wonk might perhaps be what the party decides to go for?

    The other candidates are all IDS style hardliners of one sort or another - popular with the faithful, but likely to alienate the wider electorate. Will the Tory members vote with their heart or their head come a leadership election? That‘s what will decide whether they have a chance in the next GE imo,
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 794
    edited April 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Posting from blacklisted IPs is a no-no. (Albeit there's one other poster I have not sectioned for this crime yet, because I'm a big softie.)

    FWIW, with "the other poster", I have no dog in this fight but it's worth being aware that many of the "free" VPNs work by routing traffic through their own users (kinda like TOR except the onion has one skin) and the people who run them often have ulterior motives to introduce their own traffic as well... so her explanation seemed credible to me but I don't have access to the info you do.

    Edit: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/hola-is-basically-a-botnet-congress-redirected-to-nude-photos-more-tech-news-digest/ an example
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
    Well exactly, Javid never even got to the membership because he lost to both Hunt and Gove.

    And now he's got this dodgy tax thing out there in the public.
    And yet when you eliminate the impossible, the unfeasible, and the vanishingly unlikely…
    Rory Stewart? Or Nicky Fabricant? ADDENDUM - Or Nigela Lawson?
    Surely John Redwood fancies another go.
    Jeffrey Archer?
    Jeffrey Dahmer?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    UK 12/1 to win Eurovision: must be a clear Lay?
    (Not heard the song, but when did that matter?)

    Ukraine 2.2
    Italy 4.9
    Sweden 8.6
    UK 13
    Spain 24
    Greece 46
    Poland 46
    80 bar

    We heard it yesterday. Terrible. As always.
    Then why the 12/1? Genuine question. It seems bonkers.
    Because idiots bet by nationality. A bit like the World Cup and euros odds.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    If they do it - and I've become less certain that they won't - they need to ask themselves who matches up well against Starmer and isn't tainted by association with Johnson. My tip is Mordaunt but the big value's probably gone on her.
    I mean, Hunt. He's clean of Johnson and even stood against him, he's faced Labour shadows over the dispatch box and come off well. He's generally respected and not seen as a ideological loon or any more weird than any other senior politician. To me he seems like the absolutely obvious choice.
    Ok, he looks a bit like a startled house elf, but that's better than the smirking flatulent flesh wreck they currently have in charge. Why haven't they done this thing already? I don't get it.
    Hunt got just 33% in the 2019 Tory members vote, he will not get it.

    Wallace or maybe Javid are the likely replacements if Boris goes. MPs will also likely keep Truss from the final 2
    Remind me again how Javid did in 2019?
    4th with MPs but he never got to the membership vote
    So you think Hunt can't win because people don't change their mind, but Javid can win because people change their mind.
    Hunt has already proved he cannot win with the membership, Javid never got to the membership (nor did Wallace who was not even a candidate then)
    Well exactly, Javid never even got to the membership because he lost to both Hunt and Gove.

    And now he's got this dodgy tax thing out there in the public.
    And yet when you eliminate the impossible, the unfeasible, and the vanishingly unlikely…
    You're left with the fictional.

    My avatar's time has come (though I suspect he was purged in 2019).

    https://youtu.be/qhI0YqUsiKo

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,486
    Farooq said:

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    Isn't Javid damaged by his non-dom status? I have a nagging sense that it would be a big mistake to go for him.
    It just seems so very unlikely, but what if Truss is having a fantastically efficient time destroying all her potential rivals?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,617
    Johnson does seem to like having cloth wrapped around him...


  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Seattle Times ($) - How President Joe Biden’s visit is impacting Seattle area roads, freeways and transit service

    President Joe Biden will be in Seattle on Thursday [today] and Friday, and with his visit will come some temporary changes to transit service downtown, road closures, as well as likely congestion on nearby highways.

    Biden is expected to arrive at the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport at 5:15 p.m. Thursday according to the White House. The airport said passengers arriving at or departing from Sea-Tac should expect delays early Thursday evening with security protocols requiring all air traffic to stop for at least 30 minutes before arrival and shortly after.

    The Washington Department of Transportation advised drivers to expect intermittent heavy congestion in the Seattle area Thursday evening and Friday due to temporary closures of the freeway system due to his visit.

    Ahead of his arrival, Seattle police and King County Metro blocked off partial access to downtown, with cruisers and buses spanning roadways to prevent motorists from driving on streets near the Westin hotel.

    From Thursday to Friday at 4 p.m., bus stops between Jackson and Blanchard Streets and Third and Ninth Avenues could see temporary closures or relocations. Both Sound Transit and King County Metro announced changes to several routes Thursday.

    SSI - this afternoon's commute via I-5 will NOT be fun, and downtown will be mostly no-go area for cars & buses this evening & tomorrow.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Ouch. I don't know if this has been discussed already on previous threads, but the Ukrainians now have a new word which has made its way into French too - macroner.

    Quant à l'expression "arrête de macroner", on lui donne la définition suivante : "se montrer très inquiet d'une situation, mais ne rien faire".

    In short, to macron is to express great concern for a situation but to do nothing. Ouch!!!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,617
    What's this? Momentum have been tweeting positive stuff about Andy Burnham and an article he wrote on transport.

    Is something afoot?
This discussion has been closed.