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The Ukraine war as seen from Estonia – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738
    edited April 2022

    Tories suspend candidate over anti-Catholic comments

    Greg Turner, who is standing to become a councillor in East Renfrewshire referred to a local Catholic high school as a "bigot factory," and described Catholics as "papes".

    According to the Daily Record, The Tory was behind a profile known as "MearnsUnionist".

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20085178.tories-suspend-candidate-anti-catholic-comments/

    Hmm, blue shirt in only 1 of 2 photos. He;'s not the only Tory council candidate to be finding himself on a sticky wicket this year.

    As for Mr Turner, more here, but not what forum he was posting on ...

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850

    The Herald says "popular online football discussion board". A quick check suggests one whose typical members are rather famous for defecating in the woods.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Boris Johnson walked into a big storm over here in India today by visiting a JCB factory (JCB being owned by a major Tory donor)

    It turns out JCB bulldozers were recently used to demolish Muslim homes + biz in Delhi, sparking controversy

    Here’s how Indian TV covered it today:
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1517235570090545152/photo/1
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Omnium said:

    Omnium, are you still on look out for Korean War books? Some I can recommend, in no particular order:

    > Battle for Korea: The Associated Press History of the Korean Conflict ed. by Robert J Dvorchak
    > Korean War: An Oral History - Pusan to Chosen by Donald Knox [also at least one other volume]
    > The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War by David Halberstam
    > Odd Man Out: Truman, Stalin, Mao, and the Origins of the Korean War by Richard C. Thornton
    > Truman and MacArthur: Policy, Politics and the Hunger for Honor and Renown by Michael D. Pearlman
    > Enter the Dragon: China's Undeclared War Against the US in Korea 1950-51 by Russell Spurr
    > Chosin: Heroic Ordeal of the Korean War by Eric Hammel
    > Give Me Tomorrow: The Korean War's Greatest Untold Story - The Epic Stand of the Marines of Charlie Company by Patrick K O'Donnell
    > Korean War Almanac ed by Harry G Summers
    > Encyclopedia of the Korean War: A Political, Social and Military History ed. by Spencer C Tucker
    Several Osprey monographs, only one I can vouch for is
    > Inchon: the Last Great Amphibious Assault by Gordon L Rottman

    You will note this list is quite American-centric, also oriented to the first year of the war in general, and the Chosen Reservoir campaign featuring US Marine Corps, albeit with strong supporting role by Royal Marines (Task Force Drysdale). PLUS bravura performance by the People's Volunteer Army.

    Thanks very much.

    ( Iwon't pick up on all of these, but some certainly. Just finishing Max Hastings' tome currently.)
    Perhaps pick of my list are Halberstam (he wrote one of seminal American books of Vietnam War) and Enter the Dragon (gives rare in English, well-documented and very readable view from the other side).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,500
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    America is shit

    It was in a terrible terrible mess last time I was there.

    And yet, some of the loveliest people around.
    I haven't been to America much since the 1990s when we went on family holidays. The main thing I can remember is how optimistic and cheerful everyone was at that time.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    In which case Con Maj 3.55 might start to look value.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.
    Je répète, apres mai le deluge
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005
    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    By lunchtime on the Friday if they've any sense.

    A cabinet resignation the moment the polls close would be a nice way to get the ball rolling.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,500

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    In which case Con Maj 3.55 might start to look value.
    Perhaps. I'm not convinced the favourite Liz Truss will make much difference to Tory fortunes.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.
    Je répète, apres mai le deluge
    Let’s parlez vous Franglais, surely...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,776
    edited April 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson walked into a big storm over here in India today by visiting a JCB factory (JCB being owned by a major Tory donor)

    It turns out JCB bulldozers were recently used to demolish Muslim homes + biz in Delhi, sparking controversy

    Here’s how Indian TV covered it today:
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1517235570090545152/photo/1

    It was Mrs JCB who paid for Boris's posh meals on wheels when he was too ill to dip into his own pocket.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    JCB are big investors in India. Massive.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My carafe of utterly exquisite English white wine - in the fucking prunier caviar house FFS - in lovely gleaming LHR T5 - cost me less than 2 average glasses of Chilean cab sauv in a flaky badly run drinks bar in JFK T8

    Just so you know. we're all rooting for you; your bravery in facing up to a life of unimaginable hardship is truly impressive.
    Thanks. I feel I’m gonna need this moral support in the coming days of hellish quasi-freebies
    It doesn’t get any cheaper when you leave the airport.

    Family meal (2X adults, 2X kids) at family restaurant.

    London, £40-£60*
    New York, $80-$120

    *I am starting to forget the price of things in London which is perhaps merciful.
    The hilarity is New York is cheap compared to Boston.
    I can remember a time when New York was cheap for travellers with the pound. Sigh.
    Under the Cheney-Bush administration, right (and correct)?
    Yes, and even first term Obama.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,767

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Though Swedish volunteers did fight on Finland's side in the Winter War.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Volunteer_Corps
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,744

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    In which case Con Maj 3.55 might start to look value.
    It might, but there's a hell of a lot that could go wrong. When you have idiots like Steve Baker on your bench there's a good chance that things will go wrong.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    The FT reporting the latest attempts by the cesspit in no 10 to cause more NI drama .

    Quite extraordinary that this has been leaked ahead of the NI assembly elections and even worse the new legislation effectively rewards the Unionists if they refuse to enter the assembly post elections .

    Which of course they won’t now seeing as they get want they want by not bothering .

    To also start a fight with the EU at this time is beneath contempt even by the low bar set by this government.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My carafe of utterly exquisite English white wine - in the fucking prunier caviar house FFS - in lovely gleaming LHR T5 - cost me less than 2 average glasses of Chilean cab sauv in a flaky badly run drinks bar in JFK T8

    Just so you know. we're all rooting for you; your bravery in facing up to a life of unimaginable hardship is truly impressive.
    Thanks. I feel I’m gonna need this moral support in the coming days of hellish quasi-freebies
    It doesn’t get any cheaper when you leave the airport.

    Family meal (2X adults, 2X kids) at family restaurant.

    London, £40-£60*
    New York, $80-$120

    *I am starting to forget the price of things in London which is perhaps merciful.
    The hilarity is New York is cheap compared to Boston.
    I can remember a time when New York was cheap for travellers with the pound. Sigh.
    Under the Cheney-Bush administration, right (and correct)?
    Yes, and even first term Obama.
    That kind of phenomenon is termed a "bow wave" in US governator slang
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited April 2022
    Police delay Partygate fine updates until after May local elections
    Met spokesman says investigations to continue but further information will not be released until after 5 May

    Prolonging the Tory agony.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    I think you over estimate the importance of Brexit in this. Brexit is done. Hunt is a reasonable punt. Experienced, has performed well in the health committee and seemingly not an idiot.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850.amp

    Bit embarrassing for the Scottish Conservatives and has probably scotched their chances of being the largest party in East Renfrewshire although the SNP-Lab-Ind coalition was likely to continue anyway.
  • d_d said:

    Cicero said:

    d_d said:

    "the despicable propaganda and the utter hate now being poured over the entire civilised world".

    wow, it is a surprisingly honest summary of how the conflict is being covered by Western media.

    If you actually watch and understand Russian media, you will realise how totally inappropriate this sarky comment truly is.

    oh, yes, of course, only the self-appointed Western 'democracies' possess the remarkable privilege of always being right. This should be written in stone in the Charter of the United Nations.
    d-d

    I do hope you are not being paid for your efforts here, because if you are, your employers are entitled to their money back.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far - about an hour - America is also stupidly expensive. I just had two glasses of OK Chilean red wine. £35 including tip

    Wtf.

    And this is in a significantly shit airport terminal

    The same at Luton would have been half the price. And served with greater skill and speed

    America you need to shape up or I’m gonna have a word

    F*ck me, not another travel-writing jolly that you'll moan about endlessly on here before producing a glowing puff-piece in the Torygraph, Times, Speccie or wherever?
    The Fruity One goes to the Big Apple.
    Big Liar says he hates dysfunctional pile of rubbish USA and loves the beautiful wonderful EU.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Police delay Partygate fine updates until after May local elections
    Met spokesman says investigations to continue but further information will not be released until after 5 May

    Prolonging the Tory agony.

    Also underlining to those paying attention (including rather incredibly most Tory MPs) that things will NOT get better for Boris Johnson's Conservatives AFTER the May locals. Just worse.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    🚨Boris Johnson is likely to face a vote of no confidence from his own MPs within the next three months, the most senior Tory to call for his resignation, Mark Harper, has said https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/21/mark-harper-boris-johnson-could-face-vote-no-confidence-july/?utm_content=politics&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1650573168-2
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,329
    Leon said:

    America is shit

    America is pregnant with promise and anticipation, but is murdered by the hand of the inevitable
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850.amp

    Bit embarrassing for the Scottish Conservatives and has probably scotched their chances of being the largest party in East Renfrewshire although the SNP-Lab-Ind coalition was likely to continue anyway.

    Starmer says SLab aren’t allowed to re-enter coalitions with the SNP.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/snp-glasgow-scottish-labour-glasgow-city-council-labour-leader-b2056470.html
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850.amp

    Bit embarrassing for the Scottish Conservatives and has probably scotched their chances of being the largest party in East Renfrewshire although the SNP-Lab-Ind coalition was likely to continue anyway.

    Starmer says SLab aren’t allowed to re-enter coalitions with the SNP.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/snp-glasgow-scottish-labour-glasgow-city-council-labour-leader-b2056470.html
    Are they allowed to reenter coalitions with the Tories, btw? And what's happening with the Aberdeen Labourites?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738
    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨Boris Johnson is likely to face a vote of no confidence from his own MPs within the next three months, the most senior Tory to call for his resignation, Mark Harper, has said https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/21/mark-harper-boris-johnson-could-face-vote-no-confidence-july/?utm_content=politics&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1650573168-2

    Messieurs, with zis jam tomorrow you're really spoiling us.
    Jam on the cake indeed.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194

    If Boris goes soon, it’s Truss v Javid.
    Both can probably steady the ship, though it’s hard to see either tackling the cost of living crisis.

    I don’t think Wallace wants it, though he could get it if he really went for it.

    Zahawi might be a wild card.

    Neither the membership nor the parliamentary party nor the country want Raab or Patel or Rishi or Gove. They are all busted flushes.

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    I think you over estimate the importance of Brexit in this. Brexit is done. Hunt is a reasonable punt. Experienced, has performed well in the health committee and seemingly not an idiot.
    Picking Hunt would be the Conservatives saying "yes, we ballsed up in 2019". Whilst that's true, I'm not sure the party is ready to say that to itself yet.

    In the same way as that Major was chosen to be continuity Maggie without the bits that got in everyone's nerves by 1990, I can see the Conservatives going for Johnson without the Johnson, so to speak. Which with Sunak invalided out, looks like Truss.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,038

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850.amp

    Bit embarrassing for the Scottish Conservatives and has probably scotched their chances of being the largest party in East Renfrewshire although the SNP-Lab-Ind coalition was likely to continue anyway.

    Oi.

    I sent you an email. Please respond.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850.amp

    Bit embarrassing for the Scottish Conservatives and has probably scotched their chances of being the largest party in East Renfrewshire although the SNP-Lab-Ind coalition was likely to continue anyway.

    Starmer says SLab aren’t allowed to re-enter coalitions with the SNP.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/snp-glasgow-scottish-labour-glasgow-city-council-labour-leader-b2056470.html
    Are they allowed to reenter coalitions with the Tories, btw? And what's happening with the Aberdeen Labourites?
    Of course! Pamela Nash was after telling Labour supporters to vote Con. That’s a clear breach of Labour Party rules. Will she be suspended? Will she hell. They’re all at it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,329

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.
    While also sacrificing many hard working, community minded, local councillors.

    Shame on them
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850.amp

    Bit embarrassing for the Scottish Conservatives and has probably scotched their chances of being the largest party in East Renfrewshire although the SNP-Lab-Ind coalition was likely to continue anyway.

    Starmer says SLab aren’t allowed to re-enter coalitions with the SNP.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/snp-glasgow-scottish-labour-glasgow-city-council-labour-leader-b2056470.html
    Are they allowed to reenter coalitions with the Tories, btw? And what's happening with the Aberdeen Labourites?
    Of course! Pamela Nash was after telling Labour supporters to vote Con. That’s a clear breach of Labour Party rules. Will she be suspended? Will she hell. They’re all at it.
    Doing an Ian Murray? Hmm. And when Slab actually seems to be winning. I'm sure SKS is impressed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738
    edited April 2022
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850.amp

    Bit embarrassing for the Scottish Conservatives and has probably scotched their chances of being the largest party in East Renfrewshire although the SNP-Lab-Ind coalition was likely to continue anyway.

    Starmer says SLab aren’t allowed to re-enter coalitions with the SNP.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/snp-glasgow-scottish-labour-glasgow-city-council-labour-leader-b2056470.html
    Are they allowed to reenter coalitions with the Tories, btw? And what's happening with the Aberdeen Labourites?
    11 candidates in 19 wards. Very poor showing from Labour here in Aberdeenshire.
    Unless they really are continuing to cooperate with the Tories as Tory Lite. Is that a possible explanation?

    Edit: Either that or the Tory candidate is pretending to be an Independent?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    So at a time when western unity is important and the international rules based system is breaking down no 10 have decided to put forward legislation that will if passed break international law !

    Absolutely disgraceful .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,038
    @d_d is no more, I'm afraid...

    Posting from blacklisted IPs is a no-no. (Albeit there's one other poster I have not sectioned for this crime yet, because I'm a big softie.)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.
    While also sacrificing many hard working, community minded, local councillors.

    Shame on them
    Well yes, but you have to factor in not wanting to give the opposition a scalp. If he is forced out by the opposition then they claim a win. I think the more they call for it, the more it stiffens the resolve.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    NY Post - Sarah Palin dishes on Trump, her Congress run and love with Ron Duguay

    https://nypost.com/2022/04/21/sarah-palin-on-trump-her-congress-run-love-with-ron-duguay/

    Very personal, including lots of stuff yours truly hadn't heard of. Well worth a gander!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    @d_d is no more, I'm afraid...

    Posting from blacklisted IPs is a no-no. (Albeit there's one other poster I have not sectioned for this crime yet, because I'm a big softie.)

    He was d_d if he did, d_d if he didn't.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,038
    Omnium said:

    Omnium, are you still on look out for Korean War books? Some I can recommend, in no particular order:

    > Battle for Korea: The Associated Press History of the Korean Conflict ed. by Robert J Dvorchak
    > Korean War: An Oral History - Pusan to Chosen by Donald Knox [also at least one other volume]
    > The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War by David Halberstam
    > Odd Man Out: Truman, Stalin, Mao, and the Origins of the Korean War by Richard C. Thornton
    > Truman and MacArthur: Policy, Politics and the Hunger for Honor and Renown by Michael D. Pearlman
    > Enter the Dragon: China's Undeclared War Against the US in Korea 1950-51 by Russell Spurr
    > Chosin: Heroic Ordeal of the Korean War by Eric Hammel
    > Give Me Tomorrow: The Korean War's Greatest Untold Story - The Epic Stand of the Marines of Charlie Company by Patrick K O'Donnell
    > Korean War Almanac ed by Harry G Summers
    > Encyclopedia of the Korean War: A Political, Social and Military History ed. by Spencer C Tucker
    Several Osprey monographs, only one I can vouch for is
    > Inchon: the Last Great Amphibious Assault by Gordon L Rottman

    You will note this list is quite American-centric, also oriented to the first year of the war in general, and the Chosen Reservoir campaign featuring US Marine Corps, albeit with strong supporting role by Royal Marines (Task Force Drysdale). PLUS bravura performance by the People's Volunteer Army.

    Thanks very much.

    ( Iwon't pick up on all of these, but some certainly. Just finishing Max Hastings' tome currently.)
    David Halberstam's book on the Vietnam war was superb.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941
    edited April 2022

    Omnium, are you still on look out for Korean War books? Some I can recommend, in no particular order:

    > Battle for Korea: The Associated Press History of the Korean Conflict ed. by Robert J Dvorchak
    > Korean War: An Oral History - Pusan to Chosen by Donald Knox [also at least one other volume]
    > The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War by David Halberstam
    > Odd Man Out: Truman, Stalin, Mao, and the Origins of the Korean War by Richard C. Thornton
    > Truman and MacArthur: Policy, Politics and the Hunger for Honor and Renown by Michael D. Pearlman
    > Enter the Dragon: China's Undeclared War Against the US in Korea 1950-51 by Russell Spurr
    > Chosin: Heroic Ordeal of the Korean War by Eric Hammel
    > Give Me Tomorrow: The Korean War's Greatest Untold Story - The Epic Stand of the Marines of Charlie Company by Patrick K O'Donnell
    > Korean War Almanac ed by Harry G Summers
    > Encyclopedia of the Korean War: A Political, Social and Military History ed. by Spencer C Tucker
    Several Osprey monographs, only one I can vouch for is
    > Inchon: the Last Great Amphibious Assault by Gordon L Rottman

    You will note this list is quite American-centric, also oriented to the first year of the war in general, and the Chosen Reservoir campaign featuring US Marine Corps, albeit with strong supporting role by Royal Marines (Task Force Drysdale). PLUS bravura performance by the People's Volunteer Army.

    Did you ever read Millett’s ‘The War for Korea’ ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    America is shit

    America is pregnant with promise and anticipation, but is murdered by the hand of the inevitable
    Jesus

    Aren't you at all embarrassed on rereading that?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    rcs1000 said:

    @d_d is no more, I'm afraid...

    Posting from blacklisted IPs is a no-no. (Albeit there's one other poster I have not sectioned for this crime yet, because I'm a big softie.)

    Please tell us it’s Sean.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,574
    Farooq said:

    Is it "d_d" because he intends to make a complete tit of himself?

    It must be hard to be a Russian Troll nowadays. Pretending that the raping, looting, murdering yet completely incompetent Russian army are winning, rather than being handed their arses is not easy to sustain for a long shift.

    Still better to be in a troll farm than a BTG T72 cooking off hey?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Do they get Russian trolls on Mumsnet?

    It’s quite an honour to be targeted.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    I don't know about anyone else, but I always find it totally convincing when someone who dislikes a party extemporises about what that party's membership will do.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    Omnium, are you still on look out for Korean War books? Some I can recommend, in no particular order:

    > Battle for Korea: The Associated Press History of the Korean Conflict ed. by Robert J Dvorchak
    > Korean War: An Oral History - Pusan to Chosen by Donald Knox [also at least one other volume]
    > The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War by David Halberstam
    > Odd Man Out: Truman, Stalin, Mao, and the Origins of the Korean War by Richard C. Thornton
    > Truman and MacArthur: Policy, Politics and the Hunger for Honor and Renown by Michael D. Pearlman
    > Enter the Dragon: China's Undeclared War Against the US in Korea 1950-51 by Russell Spurr
    > Chosin: Heroic Ordeal of the Korean War by Eric Hammel
    > Give Me Tomorrow: The Korean War's Greatest Untold Story - The Epic Stand of the Marines of Charlie Company by Patrick K O'Donnell
    > Korean War Almanac ed by Harry G Summers
    > Encyclopedia of the Korean War: A Political, Social and Military History ed. by Spencer C Tucker
    Several Osprey monographs, only one I can vouch for is
    > Inchon: the Last Great Amphibious Assault by Gordon L Rottman

    You will note this list is quite American-centric, also oriented to the first year of the war in general, and the Chosen Reservoir campaign featuring US Marine Corps, albeit with strong supporting role by Royal Marines (Task Force Drysdale). PLUS bravura performance by the People's Volunteer Army.

    Did you ever read Millett’s ‘The War for Korea’ ?
    No. But looking at reviews, reckon I should! What's your take?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899
    edited April 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    d_d said:

    Cicero said:

    d_d said:

    "the despicable propaganda and the utter hate now being poured over the entire civilised world".

    wow, it is a surprisingly honest summary of how the conflict is being covered by Western media.

    If you actually watch and understand Russian media, you will realise how totally inappropriate this sarky comment truly is.

    oh, yes, of course, only the self-appointed Western 'democracies' possess the remarkable privilege of always being right. This should be written in stone in the Charter of the United Nations.
    Wow.

    You're back. And with a different IP address that's also (amazingly) blacklisted.

    So either:

    (a) Your computer is compromised by hackers, and you should wipe it and start over with better security protocols

    or

    (b) You are actually sitting in a windowless room someone and being paid to post.

    Which one is it?
    Apparently the IRA (not those berks the Russian ones) have three main tiers of trolls. People who post comments on newspapers sites, people who post comments on forums, and people who write blogs and slip in a bit of "check out this article I read" disinformation. So amazing as it may seem there is actually a lower type of troll than the numpty who keeps coming back here.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    I don't know about anyone else, but I always find it totally convincing when someone who dislikes a party extemporises about what that party's membership will do.
    You must find a lot of PB convincing, then.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    The guff about unelected bureaucrats is only if they’re from the EU . I’m sure if Frost went for the job Leavers will be all over him as he did such a magnificent job with the marvelous deal he delivered ! All praise Frosty !
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.
    While also sacrificing many hard working, community minded, local councillors.

    Shame on them
    Well yes, but you have to factor in not wanting to give the opposition a scalp. If he is forced out by the opposition then they claim a win. I think the more they call for it, the more it stiffens the resolve.
    True, but the shameful bit is throwing a load of councillors and candidates onto the fire so that MPs can say "ooh look at that big fire, Boris ought to go." If they want to VONC Boris, then get on with it. They might even save some of the little people.

    The broad outlines of this fiasco have been known for months, and Conservative MPs have found one excuse after another another to procrastinate.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    BLACK PASSPORTS!

    Which is the “cuddly toy!” de nos jours.

    “Look what you could have won!”, he said, pointing at freedom of movement and the ability to trade frictionlessly with the single market.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,519

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Lukewarm on NATO myself as I think it varies between being a truly defensive alliance and a projection of not always healthy US influence. I'd be delighted if Sweden and Finland joined, as they would weight the "defensive alliance" end of things.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850.amp

    Bit embarrassing for the Scottish Conservatives and has probably scotched their chances of being the largest party in East Renfrewshire although the SNP-Lab-Ind coalition was likely to continue anyway.

    Starmer says SLab aren’t allowed to re-enter coalitions with the SNP.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/snp-glasgow-scottish-labour-glasgow-city-council-labour-leader-b2056470.html
    Are they allowed to reenter coalitions with the Tories, btw? And what's happening with the Aberdeen Labourites?
    Of course! Pamela Nash was after telling Labour supporters to vote Con. That’s a clear breach of Labour Party rules. Will she be suspended? Will she hell. They’re all at it.
    Doing an Ian Murray? Hmm. And when Slab actually seems to be winning. I'm sure SKS is impressed.
    I don't know how things will play out TBH although I can see SLab being the largest party on a few councils like West Dunbartonshire, East Lothian and North Labarkshire and will carry on leading a strong minority in the latter two anyway.

    Aberdeen is pretty much certain to be SNP led as they were only 4 seats short of a majority last time and I think the Tories and Lab will both go into opposition there.

    Edinburgh is most interesting because its so fragmented, I think the LDs will surprise on the upside there and Lab bottomed out in 2017 so I almost wonder if a Lab-LD minority is feasible even if the SNP is the largest party . The Tories will take a substantial hit in Edinburgh but I can also see some damage to the SNP in the middle class wards and there is also some talk of the SNP Lord Provost losing his seat in Corstorphine/Murrayfield where the LDs are running a 2nd candidate.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium, are you still on look out for Korean War books? Some I can recommend, in no particular order:

    > Battle for Korea: The Associated Press History of the Korean Conflict ed. by Robert J Dvorchak
    > Korean War: An Oral History - Pusan to Chosen by Donald Knox [also at least one other volume]
    > The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War by David Halberstam
    > Odd Man Out: Truman, Stalin, Mao, and the Origins of the Korean War by Richard C. Thornton
    > Truman and MacArthur: Policy, Politics and the Hunger for Honor and Renown by Michael D. Pearlman
    > Enter the Dragon: China's Undeclared War Against the US in Korea 1950-51 by Russell Spurr
    > Chosin: Heroic Ordeal of the Korean War by Eric Hammel
    > Give Me Tomorrow: The Korean War's Greatest Untold Story - The Epic Stand of the Marines of Charlie Company by Patrick K O'Donnell
    > Korean War Almanac ed by Harry G Summers
    > Encyclopedia of the Korean War: A Political, Social and Military History ed. by Spencer C Tucker
    Several Osprey monographs, only one I can vouch for is
    > Inchon: the Last Great Amphibious Assault by Gordon L Rottman

    You will note this list is quite American-centric, also oriented to the first year of the war in general, and the Chosen Reservoir campaign featuring US Marine Corps, albeit with strong supporting role by Royal Marines (Task Force Drysdale). PLUS bravura performance by the People's Volunteer Army.

    Thanks very much.

    ( Iwon't pick up on all of these, but some certainly. Just finishing Max Hastings' tome currently.)
    David Halberstam's book on the Vietnam war was superb.
    The Coldest War was Halberstam's near-to-final opus.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
    The pounds and ounces is well enough documented from Tory MPs. The queuing is the well reported problems at Dover. The rest is me being sarcastic.

    BTW you do know that the leader of the Scottish farmers blamed Brexit as a major problem for the industry? But the BBC snipped out the B- word in their broadcast. . So that's OK then when we all starve because of the lack of food security promoted by the Brexiters such as those on here.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297
    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,329

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.
    While also sacrificing many hard working, community minded, local councillors.

    Shame on them
    Well yes, but you have to factor in not wanting to give the opposition a scalp. If he is forced out by the opposition then they claim a win. I think the more they call for it, the more it stiffens the resolve.
    Surely it is better to lance the boil now. Get it over and done with as far out from the next GE as they can. The longer they let it carry on the longer it will fester.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955

    The broad outlines of this fiasco have been known for months, and Conservative MPs have found one excuse after another another to procrastinate.

    The irony of that approach is instead of allowing public anger at BoZo to dissipate, they have instead provided more opportunities for him to fuck up.

    And they seem intent on doing so indefinitely
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
    The pounds and ounces is well enough documented from Tory MPs. The queuing is the well reported problems at Dover. The rest is me being sarcastic.

    BTW you do know that the leader of the Scottish farmers blamed Brexit as a major problem for the industry? But the BBC snipped out the B- word in their broadcast. . So that's OK then when we all starve because of the lack of food security promoted by the Brexiters such as those on here.
    Do you think we are going to starve then? I mean the food options at Waitrose were a bit restricted today, but I didn’t go hungry.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,941
    edited April 2022
    Additional US military aid package for Ukraine includes more than 121 Phoenix Ghost systems — Pentagon. They are similar to armed Switchblade drones but were operatively developed for the needs of Ukraine
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1517243718880931840

    Unclear what it is, other than the same concept as Switchblade.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Lukewarm on NATO myself as I think it varies between being a truly defensive alliance and a projection of not always healthy US influence. I'd be delighted if Sweden and Finland joined, as they would weight the "defensive alliance" end of things.
    “not always healthy US influence”

    Help me here: I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms. But let’s omit popular culture from the reckoning.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,340
    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-candidate-dropped-after-26766850.amp

    Bit embarrassing for the Scottish Conservatives and has probably scotched their chances of being the largest party in East Renfrewshire although the SNP-Lab-Ind coalition was likely to continue anyway.

    Starmer says SLab aren’t allowed to re-enter coalitions with the SNP.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/snp-glasgow-scottish-labour-glasgow-city-council-labour-leader-b2056470.html
    Are they allowed to reenter coalitions with the Tories, btw? And what's happening with the Aberdeen Labourites?
    Of course! Pamela Nash was after telling Labour supporters to vote Con. That’s a clear breach of Labour Party rules. Will she be suspended? Will she hell. They’re all at it.
    Doing an Ian Murray? Hmm. And when Slab actually seems to be winning. I'm sure SKS is impressed.
    I don't know how things will play out TBH although I can see SLab being the largest party on a few councils like West Dunbartonshire, East Lothian and North Labarkshire and will carry on leading a strong minority in the latter two anyway.

    Aberdeen is pretty much certain to be SNP led as they were only 4 seats short of a majority last time and I think the Tories and Lab will both go into opposition there.

    Edinburgh is most interesting because its so fragmented, I think the LDs will surprise on the upside there and Lab bottomed out in 2017 so I almost wonder if a Lab-LD minority is feasible even if the SNP is the largest party . The Tories will take a substantial hit in Edinburgh but I can also see some damage to the SNP in the middle class wards and there is also some talk of the SNP Lord Provost losing his seat in Corstorphine/Murrayfield where the LDs are running a 2nd candidate.
    Hmm, I wouldn't use the word 'both' of Labour and Tory in Aberdeen - they're now almost the same party albeit funded from different sources.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-56238614
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Good looking, polite, early to condemn Johnson. But also probably a lot of an unknown character that they can prohect their hopes on.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Lukewarm on NATO myself as I think it varies between being a truly defensive alliance and a projection of not always healthy US influence. I'd be delighted if Sweden and Finland joined, as they would weight the "defensive alliance" end of things.
    “not always healthy US influence”

    Help me here: I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms. But let’s omit popular culture from the reckoning.)
    Women's lib, gay lib - tended to be pioneered over there. Albeit only parts of the USA.

  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,254
    rcs1000 said:

    @d_d is no more, I'm afraid...

    Posting from blacklisted IPs is a no-no. (Albeit there's one other poster I have not sectioned for this crime yet, because I'm a big softie.)

    Obvs don’t have to answer if it would reveal deep secrets, but what counts as a blacklisted IP? Is there some central list of such things?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    Leon said:

    America is shit

    America's problem is too much capitalism. Money ruins everything if left unchecked. We've been heading the same way since around 1979.
  • Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Good looking, polite, early to condemn Johnson. But also probably a lot of an unknown character that they can prohect their hopes on.
    Good constituency MP, I understand. Also knowledgeable on defence matters, which kind of helps just now.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    I suspect quite a few Tory MPs were waiting for May, or hoping to, before acting. A shitshow would certainly give cover.
    While also sacrificing many hard working, community minded, local councillors.

    Shame on them
    Well yes, but you have to factor in not wanting to give the opposition a scalp. If he is forced out by the opposition then they claim a win. I think the more they call for it, the more it stiffens the resolve.
    Surely it is better to lance the boil now. Get it over and done with as far out from the next GE as they can. The longer they let it carry on the longer it will fester.
    Yes, totally agree. It should have happened months ago when it became clear both the extent of the parties and the lies to parliament. But they were frit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
    The pounds and ounces is well enough documented from Tory MPs. The queuing is the well reported problems at Dover. The rest is me being sarcastic.

    BTW you do know that the leader of the Scottish farmers blamed Brexit as a major problem for the industry? But the BBC snipped out the B- word in their broadcast. . So that's OK then when we all starve because of the lack of food security promoted by the Brexiters such as those on here.
    Do you think we are going to starve then? I mean the food options at Waitrose were a bit restricted today, but I didn’t go hungry.
    The way things are going, I'd start worrying if the world situation doesn't improve this year. Fertiliser, grain, etc. will be shorter than usual.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Good looking, polite, early to condemn Johnson. But also probably a lot of an unknown character that they can prohect their hopes on.
    Thx. Words fail me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    I'm sadly not optimistic enough in general to think a turning point has been reached, in a favourable way, but I do hope cicero is right about that. Obviously it is not possible for everyone to react the same as those on the front lines of this new cold war (or very hot war if you are Ukrainian), but the views of and pressures upon places like Estonia, for whom the unprovoked aggression and irrational justifications of the Russian state are existential, need to be very much kept in mind.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Same with ex-MSP Ben Wallace. Genuine question.

    He was a total dud at Holyrood, failing to shine even in the dire SCon parliamentary group, so why is he seen as a superstar at Westminster?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,254

    I'm imagining being a Tory MP. I really, really think Boris should go, and that the lustre has gone, probably for good. But for the life of me I can't think who could replace him who has a chance in hell of making a great impression in time for the next general election. I've been through every possible alternative, and they all fall fundamentally short for one reason or another. So, although I think Boris must go, I also think he should stay. I'm going to cross my fingers and hope he has a revival, somehow.

    I reckon that's what quite a lot of Tory MPs are going through at the moment.

    Hunt would bring back a lot of middle-of-the-road voters to the Tory fold I suspect. Trouble is the Brexiteers would throw a fit.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,996
    If you are interested in American wars, you might want to get the appropriate West Point atlases. (I have an old two-volume set, ending in 1953, so it covers up through the Korean War.)

    (In general, I find it hard to study most battles and campaigns without good maps -- which are almost always too large to fit in standard-size history books. So a good atlas is helpful, and sometimes essential supplement.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Same with ex-MSP Ben Wallace. Genuine question.

    He was a total dud at Holyrood, failing to shine even in the dire SCon parliamentary group, so why is he seen as a superstar at Westminster?
    Doesn't bite the carpet?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    We haven’t been at war for 200 years
    Is that right? Fortunate folk indeed, feel like even if you have the right policies you need to get lucky to avoid it for that long.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,353
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Keir Starmer is facing the JC of the Tories in GE2024

    At the moment I think the local election results will be sufficiently bad enough for the Tories to get rid of Johnson before the next GE.
    In which case Con Maj 3.55 might start to look value.
    Perhaps. I'm not convinced the favourite Liz Truss will make much difference to Tory fortunes.
    Don't forget the rule is, never bet on the next Tory Leader favourite.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Chairmanship of Fasc. At which he looks pretty good, but frinstance allegedly only saw with hindsight what a fuck up Afghanistan was whereas the HoL equivalent saw it coming
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Lukewarm on NATO myself as I think it varies between being a truly defensive alliance and a projection of not always healthy US influence. I'd be delighted if Sweden and Finland joined, as they would weight the "defensive alliance" end of things.
    From USA perspective, besides mundane matters such as global security & the like, key issue re: NATO has always been . . . wait for it . . . burden sharing.

    Dog whistle to traditional and neo isolationists. But NOT just to these usual and unusual suspects.

    Believe British position on NATO burden sharing, is always striving to be just enough ahead of French, Germans & etc, so UK can and will keep pointing (or flipping) the finger eastward . . .
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
    The pounds and ounces is well enough documented from Tory MPs. The queuing is the well reported problems at Dover. The rest is me being sarcastic.

    BTW you do know that the leader of the Scottish farmers blamed Brexit as a major problem for the industry? But the BBC snipped out the B- word in their broadcast. . So that's OK then when we all starve because of the lack of food security promoted by the Brexiters such as those on here.
    Do you think we are going to starve then? I mean the food options at Waitrose were a bit restricted today, but I didn’t go hungry.
    The way things are going, I'd start worrying if the world situation doesn't improve this year. Fertiliser, grain, etc. will be shorter than usual.
    I watched a dicumentary about the U.K. food supply in WW2, how we went from 50% produced at home, to 90% at the end of the war.
    Clearly not suggesting that we do that again, but reducing food miles is good for the planet.
    Happily my asparagus bed will start cropping in days, and that’s about 400 yards to the plate from the allotment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited April 2022
    Farooq said:

    Do they get Russian trolls on Mumsnet?

    It’s quite an honour to be targeted.

    The thing about the Russian Trolls we've had on here is each one is less substantial than the one before.
    .
    Quite so, longstanding Russian trolls like me know how to be subtle about things and play the long game. These new youthful trolls are just so lazy, it's a disgrace.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Lukewarm on NATO myself as I think it varies between being a truly defensive alliance and a projection of not always healthy US influence. I'd be delighted if Sweden and Finland joined, as they would weight the "defensive alliance" end of things.
    “not always healthy US influence”

    Help me here: I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms. But let’s omit popular culture from the reckoning.)
    That's a bit unfair. Personally I have a deep love and respect for the US, having lived there for a number of years. There is much that they do really well. But their society is being hollowed out by uncontrolled corporate greed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,718
    Russia has now drawn back from taking the whole of Ukraine and is just focused on occupying the Donbass, Crimea and Russian border region
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    I was listening to a Finnish Social Democratic MP on the radio earlier. He was in Stockholm to inform the ongoing Swedish parliamentary enquiry into NATO membership (incidentally, now being hurried through and reporting mid-May not end-May).

    He is personally skeptical about Finnish membership, but he said that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Finland will apply to join in the very near future. He said parliamentary support there is overwhelming. That will almost certainly heavily affect the debate in Sweden.

    Then why is he skeptical about Finnish membership?
    Overwhelming support does not equal unanimous support. Parliamentary unanimity in any legislature is rare. He did not expound his own reservations, but Nordic media is full of Pros n Cons type articles and shows. It’s a hot topic.
    And also (pls correct if wrong) this is a HUGE sea change for Finns and Swedes, esp. on left side of spectrum.

    And NOT just for lefties. But like the man sang, the times they are a'changing.
    Yes. I don’t think I’m over-egging it to say that many Swedes are profoundly uncomfortable with NATO membership because it just seems so damned “un-Swedish”. We haven’t been at war for 200 years, and folks aren’t super-keen to change that record. This is not a left/right issue (all politics in Sweden is “left” anyway, even the so-called “conservatives”; nothing is more conservative in Sweden than social democracy).
    Lukewarm on NATO myself as I think it varies between being a truly defensive alliance and a projection of not always healthy US influence. I'd be delighted if Sweden and Finland joined, as they would weight the "defensive alliance" end of things.
    “not always healthy US influence”

    Help me here: I’m struggling to think of a single example of healthy U.S. influence during the last five decades. (Beyond a few classic sitcoms. But let’s omit popular culture from the reckoning.)
    Women's lib, gay lib - tended to be pioneered over there. Albeit only parts of the USA.

    The suffragettes got going on that issue long over five decades ago. Plenty of pioneering social reform movements in the rest of the world outwith the US.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,718
    edited April 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Because the people we're comparing him to are even worse?
    If you rule out anyone prepared to stay in Johnson's cabinet (and you should, really), and Hunt is past it (he kind of is), who is next in line?
    Ben Wallace, Hunt and Tugendhat would not get through the membership vote and being in Boris' cabinet is not a hindrance to Tory members who get the final say on next Tory leader and PM in power
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited April 2022

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Rishi Sunak drifting again: now 13/1 for Next Con Leader.

    Shortening:
    Zahawi 22/1
    Baker 40/1

    All three are impossible at any odds. Leading the field is Truss, Hunt and Tugendhat. Truss is very unlikely as the time will come when, as Sunak has discovered, being in this current government is a handicap; + she is lightweight. Hunt and Tugendhat are the real favourites.

    Why do people rate Tom Tugendhat? Genuine question.
    Same with ex-MSP Ben Wallace. Genuine question.

    He was a total dud at Holyrood, failing to shine even in the dire SCon parliamentary group, so why is he seen as a superstar at Westminster?
    I'd have assumed projecting a serious demeanour over Ukraine, but in fact he was highly rated on ConHome before then. I assume it's a case of the appearance at least of competence - by not getting loads of bad press - and not being seen as a pushy rival to the top man (which even if people support taking down Boris, they may not like those who seem too keen to do it from within Cabinet).

    Personally I still couldn't pick Wallace out of a lineup though. And does he offer anything that will excite members, if the opportunity arose?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Do they get Russian trolls on Mumsnet?

    It’s quite an honour to be targeted.

    The thing about the Russian Trolls we've had on here is each one is less substantial than the one before.
    .
    Quite so, longstanding Russian trolls like me know how to be subtle about things and play the long game. These new youthful trolls are just so lazy, it's a disgrace.
    73K posts is a very long game...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,738

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    I don’t know why people keep ramping Hunt or Tugendhat. Only Brexiters (or apostate Brexiters, like Truss) need apply.

    That was the case in the last leadership election, but the next one will be fought in massively different circumstances.

    For a start, Remain is no longer an option.
    I am not convinced the Tory Party are ready yet.

    Brexit is not just a “policy” it’s a whole worldview. The Tories (and certainly the membership) are still too intoxicated by the Brexit fever dream.
    Don’t agree with this. To most Brexit is done and dusted. There are ongoing trade deals, but there always will be. But we have left the eu, no more money is being paid to the eu coffers to spend moving parliament every six months (or whatever it was).
    Tories still LOVE the Brexit Weltanshauung.
    Bashing foreigners, asylum seekers, the wokerati; railing against the iniquity of the Northern Ireland Protocol; pretending that the UK is outperforming the G7; believing that the country can achieve prosperity via freeports and still-yet-undefined “deregulation”.

    They’d go for Lord Frost if it wasn’t for the inconvenient fact he is unelected.
    Plus pounds and ounces, and poles and ells, and the supposed traditional British love of queuing, especially at Dover.
    Is it possible this is confirmation bias from selected idiots on twitter?
    The pounds and ounces is well enough documented from Tory MPs. The queuing is the well reported problems at Dover. The rest is me being sarcastic.

    BTW you do know that the leader of the Scottish farmers blamed Brexit as a major problem for the industry? But the BBC snipped out the B- word in their broadcast. . So that's OK then when we all starve because of the lack of food security promoted by the Brexiters such as those on here.
    Do you think we are going to starve then? I mean the food options at Waitrose were a bit restricted today, but I didn’t go hungry.
    The way things are going, I'd start worrying if the world situation doesn't improve this year. Fertiliser, grain, etc. will be shorter than usual.
    I watched a dicumentary about the U.K. food supply in WW2, how we went from 50% produced at home, to 90% at the end of the war.
    Clearly not suggesting that we do that again, but reducing food miles is good for the planet.
    Happily my asparagus bed will start cropping in days, and that’s about 400 yards to the plate from the allotment.
    Quite.

    *envious*

    And we have had PBers getting all excited about depending on Australia for food. What was it one of us was getting all frothy about, Jerusalem artichokes or something?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,702
     
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Do they get Russian trolls on Mumsnet?

    It’s quite an honour to be targeted.

    The thing about the Russian Trolls we've had on here is each one is less substantial than the one before.
    .
    Quite so, longstanding Russian trolls like me know how to be subtle about things and play the long game. These new youthful trolls are just so lazy, it's a disgrace.
    Youthful? Farooq was referencing Babushka dolls.

  • IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    America is shit

    America is pregnant with promise and anticipation, but is murdered by the hand of the inevitable
    Jesus

    Aren't you at all embarrassed on rereading that?
    Oh, I thought it was quite Nice.
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