Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
Someone must have the graph plotting GDP per capita versus tax% of GDP?
It is upwards sloping because the poorest countries don't have tax raising capacity. Even as a left winger I wouldn't make a strong argument for causality running from taxation to growth, though.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
Robbed the few that wanted the right to have the freedom to live and work of their freedom to move while saving the 98% of people that didnt care about it a lot of tax
Tax is at an all time high, in part because overall economic growth has underperformed since we left the EU.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
Robbed the few that wanted the right to have the freedom to live and work of their freedom to move while saving the 98% of people that didnt care about it a lot of tax
Haven't read much on some of the new local council boundaries, I've probably only noticed the Cumbria one as it affects me. Are there any other quite substantial boundary changes in the locals that may affect how things change around total numbers of controlled councils? And do people think it will affect Boris' defence against his upcoming dethroning (hopefully)? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-61098347.amp
I can't really see how the Tories do badly enough for Johnson to be dethroned this year. I think there would need to be a complete gubbing in the Midlands in places like Dudley. I think crunch point for Johnson will be mid to late 2023 otherwise he fights the next election.
I would be cautiously optimistic about Labour's chances in Cumberland though. That's probably the most interesting northern battleground this year.
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
Because the whole economy is suffering from a crippling shortage of workers now that we have left the EU and with unemployment at under 4% there isn't a ready supply of domestic labour?
They’re not being honest about it, though, are they?
Of course not, they are compulsive liars whose lies have brought them only electoral success up to now. Why on earth would they start telling the truth now?
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Paying through the nose ! Your posts sound like a desperate attempt to self-soothe knowing you were duped into voting for more immigration from countries who share less values than those from the EU .
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Two things post-catching up on the latest New Statesman:
(1) on topic, Andrew Marr’s article is decidedly downbeat on Labour, even with its poll lead. His claim is that BJ’s criticism of Starmer as a “man without a plan” is cutting through, that dissatisfaction is rising internally with Starmer’s performance and that the Labour front bench is becoming increasingly apathetic (I realise to some that Marr’s view will make them more optimistic on Labour’s chances);
(2) the interview with Sergey Karaganov. What struck me was his use of the word “existential” in the interview, saying that, for the Russian regime, not only would defeat be an existential crisis but also a non-victory. Given Peskov has said Russia won’t use nuclear weapons unless it faces an existential threat, that could point to a greater willingness to use it under certain circumstances. Having said that, it could be a deliberately ploy knowing idiots like me would put 2 and 2 together…
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Most of the people who voted for Brexit didn’t pay much tax. Brexit was won by the old and economically inactive.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Paying through the nose ! Your posts sound like a desperate attempt to self-soothe knowing you were duped into voting for more immigration from countries who share less values than those from the EU .
I didn't vote leave on the grounds of immigration for one so dont give a shit about it. I just don't see why I should have to pay out of my taxes so you can swan off to live in barcelona. If you want to go live there fine...do all the forms pay all the fees yourself dont dip your hand into my pocket because "mah freedom innit"
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
You conveniently forget the billions in lost trade caused by Brexit and lost tax revenues .
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
HYUFD lives in Essex, which has lower GDP than much of London and Home Counties.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
Google has stopped censoring the satellite images of Russian military bases, but it's revealed that even the fake aircraft are having maintenance issues:
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Most of the people who voted for Brexit didn’t pay much tax. Brexit was won by the old and economically inactive.
I voted brexit I pay a lot of tax, I can't answer for other people but what I can say is I really don't care if you now have to fill out some forms and jump through some hoops because my taxes aren't contributing to you being able to just go....you want to go fine just jump through a the extra hoops just like the much vaster majority had to that wanted to live and work in non eu countries and didn't turn round and ask all the people who didn't care about it to pay their way
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
Someone must have the graph plotting GDP per capita versus tax% of GDP?
It is upwards sloping because the poorest countries don't have tax raising capacity. Even as a left winger I wouldn't make a strong argument for causality running from taxation to growth, though.
It's a debate that's utterly riddled with confounding variables, which is why I object so strongly to HYUFD's idiotic cherry picking and inference baiting. Happily it's the kind of debate where cherry picking works in exactly the opposite direction too making it very easy for a neutral to see that you need something a bit more robust to come to any conclusions.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
Robbed the few that wanted the right to have the freedom to live and work of their freedom to move while saving the 98% of people that didnt care about it a lot of tax
Tax is at an all time high, in part because overall economic growth has underperformed since we left the EU.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Most of the people who voted for Brexit didn’t pay much tax. Brexit was won by the old and economically inactive.
I voted brexit I pay a lot of tax, I can't answer for other people but what I can say is I really don't care if you now have to fill out some forms and jump through some hoops because my taxes aren't contributing to you being able to just go....you want to go fine just jump through a the extra hoops just like the much vaster majority had to that wanted to live and work in non eu countries and didn't turn round and ask all the people who didn't care about it to pay their way
You strike me as a very angry person. Who can barely string a sentence together.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
Robbed the few that wanted the right to have the freedom to live and work of their freedom to move while saving the 98% of people that didnt care about it a lot of tax
Tax is at an all time high, in part because overall economic growth has underperformed since we left the EU.
Much of a muchness:
This really crazy thing happened right in the middle of your graph. I’ve forgotten what it was, but it seems to skew the data, rendering it meaningless. Do you recall what it was?
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Where do you get your number of taxpayers from?
about 40 million adults in the country, about 50% or so percent pay any form of direct taxation yes couldnt be bothered to look up the exact percentage as its close enough. Its above 20 mill by a mill or two but just did a rough sum of 50% as close enough
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Going home tomorrow after an excellent family holiday in Baden-Wurttenberg. It's been helped by spectacularly good weather, but I have to say that Germany is an incredible place. Everything just works, everything is clean and well-organised, there's a palpable aura of efficiency and prosperity everywhere. Something has gone very wrong in Britain that we have fallen so far behind, our public spaces look so shabby and broken by comparison. And while Germany sits at the heart of a market of hundreds of millions of people, with trade and travel across open borders, we have shut ourselves off, growing poorer and ever more mean-spirited, led by an incompetent liar. It doesn't feel great to be British right now.
Glad you enjoyed your hols.
Suspect your sentiments regarding the relative pride/shame to be felt by Britain and Germany would receive a fairly robust response if shared on the Ukrainian version of PB.
Going home tomorrow after an excellent family holiday in Baden-Wurttenberg. It's been helped by spectacularly good weather, but I have to say that Germany is an incredible place. Everything just works, everything is clean and well-organised, there's a palpable aura of efficiency and prosperity everywhere. Something has gone very wrong in Britain that we have fallen so far behind, our public spaces look so shabby and broken by comparison. And while Germany sits at the heart of a market of hundreds of millions of people, with trade and travel across open borders, we have shut ourselves off, growing poorer and ever more mean-spirited, led by an incompetent liar. It doesn't feel great to be British right now.
Glad you enjoyed your hols.
Suspect your sentiments regarding the relative pride/shame to be felt by Britain and Germany would receive a fairly robust response if shared on the Ukrainian version of PB.
Nor if the writer had been to Berlin which, shall we say, might not meet their expectations.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Most of the people who voted for Brexit didn’t pay much tax. Brexit was won by the old and economically inactive.
I voted brexit I pay a lot of tax, I can't answer for other people but what I can say is I really don't care if you now have to fill out some forms and jump through some hoops because my taxes aren't contributing to you being able to just go....you want to go fine just jump through a the extra hoops just like the much vaster majority had to that wanted to live and work in non eu countries and didn't turn round and ask all the people who didn't care about it to pay their way
You strike me as a very angry person. Who can barely string a sentence together.
Yes I am angry at dicks like you whinging on and on at how you lost your freedoms when it is not free its just the rest of us who didn't want those freedoms were still having to pay for.
Ignoring the ad hominem as it was pretty clear what I said and if you have comprehension problems thats your end not mine.
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
HYUFD lives in Essex, which has lower GDP than much of London and Home Counties.
Presumably because he is thick as mince.
I live in Epping Forest which has higher average wealth than most of London given the average property price here and the fact more of us here own our own homes than Londoners do. Property prices in Epping Forest and average incomes of those who live here is also higher than the Home Counties average too let alone the Essex average, except for the most expensive parts of Buckinghamshire and Surrey, Windsor and Maidenhead and Sevenoaks in Kent.
However the difference in average IQ within the UK is tiny compared to the difference in IQ between us and Somalia on average. Plus of course some developed countries have higher average IQs than us like Singapore and South Korea. However only Singapore has higher gdp per capita than us as it also has significantly lower taxes.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Most of the people who voted for Brexit didn’t pay much tax. Brexit was won by the old and economically inactive.
I voted brexit I pay a lot of tax, I can't answer for other people but what I can say is I really don't care if you now have to fill out some forms and jump through some hoops because my taxes aren't contributing to you being able to just go....you want to go fine just jump through a the extra hoops just like the much vaster majority had to that wanted to live and work in non eu countries and didn't turn round and ask all the people who didn't care about it to pay their way
You strike me as a very angry person. Who can barely string a sentence together.
Yes I am angry and dicks like you whinging on and on at how you lost your freedoms when it is not free its just the rest of us who didn't want those freedoms were still having to pay for.
Ignoring the ad hominem as it was pretty clear what I said and if you have comprehension problems thats your end not mine.
Ok mate. Perhaps take it to angryandbitterbetting.com
Most of those countries are playing a game only small nations can partake in - providing tax incentives to filter off wealth. They are, basically, parasites.
It's also a bit of an accounting trick. Companies are more likely to declare their profits there so GDP is higher. That's isn't necessarily reflected in living standards though.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
Average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is 115. Fully one standard deviation above the “human average”
Meanwhile American Jews are at least twice as rich, on average, as non Jewish Americans
“Much of the Jewish American community lead middle class lifestyles.[130] While the median household net worth of the typical American family is $99,500, among American Jews the figure is $443,000.[131][132] In addition, the median Jewish American income is estimated to be in the range of $97,000 to $98,000, nearly twice as high the American national median.”
Two things post-catching up on the latest New Statesman:
(1) on topic, Andrew Marr’s article is decidedly downbeat on Labour, even with its poll lead. His claim is that BJ’s criticism of Starmer as a “man without a plan” is cutting through, that dissatisfaction is rising internally with Starmer’s performance and that the Labour front bench is becoming increasingly apathetic (I realise to some that Marr’s view will make them more optimistic on Labour’s chances); …
Where are these articles of which you speak? Marr seems to be waxing lyrical about Starmer's chances He thinks Boris has blown it as have the Tory Party. In any event polls are a better guide than Marr.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Haven't read much on some of the new local council boundaries, I've probably only noticed the Cumbria one as it affects me. Are there any other quite substantial boundary changes in the locals that may affect how things change around total numbers of controlled councils? And do people think it will affect Boris' defence against his upcoming dethroning (hopefully)? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-61098347.amp
Would it be too complex to ask why, if they are making it Cumberland, and Westmorland and Furness, didn't they just make it Cumberland? And not put a significant area around Penrith into the other one? Or would that have been too easy?
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Most of the people who voted for Brexit didn’t pay much tax. Brexit was won by the old and economically inactive.
I voted brexit I pay a lot of tax, I can't answer for other people but what I can say is I really don't care if you now have to fill out some forms and jump through some hoops because my taxes aren't contributing to you being able to just go....you want to go fine just jump through a the extra hoops just like the much vaster majority had to that wanted to live and work in non eu countries and didn't turn round and ask all the people who didn't care about it to pay their way
You strike me as a very angry person. Who can barely string a sentence together.
Yes I am angry and dicks like you whinging on and on at how you lost your freedoms when it is not free its just the rest of us who didn't want those freedoms were still having to pay for.
Ignoring the ad hominem as it was pretty clear what I said and if you have comprehension problems thats your end not mine.
Ok mate. Perhaps take it to angryandbitterbetting.com
Ah no rebuttal to the argument so play the man not the ball....nods. Whatever everyone can see you lost
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
Average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is 115. Fully one standard deviation above the “human average”
Meanwhile American Jews are at least twice as rich, on average, as non Jewish Americans
“Much of the Jewish American community lead middle class lifestyles.[130] While the median household net worth of the typical American family is $99,500, among American Jews the figure is $443,000.[131][132] In addition, the median Jewish American income is estimated to be in the range of $97,000 to $98,000, nearly twice as high the American national median.”
Forget Africa, are you honestly claiming there is no link between these two facts?
I know this is one of those allegedly taboo subjects you like to masturbate about, but is it possible that IQ here is simply measuring “cultural propensity to earn money”?
After all, the Flynn Effect suggested that we were all improving our IQs (and now that we are all degrading them).
Quite a daft post. Stick to the travel writing, which I’ve hugely enjoyed.
Alright, if you insist (and thanks!)..
I’ve had a weird day today. I set off for an early morning hike up a volcano. About halfway up, and just before it started to get really steep, I found a nice place for my first beer. In some woods, on a mini-peak, I discovered what appeared to be a ruined old fortification, with remains of ancient stone walls in tight curves around the edges - as if they’d once been watch towers. I couldn’t find any information to further enlighten me on it, but it did just feel like people had fought there.
I felt quite a wreck. I had my first stitch of my holiday. I think I was probably still digesting last night’s enormous (and free!) dinner. I was just pondering whether to turn back to town, or press on up the volcano, when I got a message from my young Dutch friend Enzio (who helped me out by letting me stay at his apartment after I got refused entry to my room about ten days ago). He’d had to change his flight home to a week earlier than planned for work reasons, and only had a couple of nights left. He was imploring me to head back to Roses for another night out before he leaves (I must be fun!)
I headed back to town and the bus station. I checked the bus times and there was a bus to Figueres, where I could transfer to Roses, scheduled at 1:15. I got to the bus station nearly an hour early, bought a beer (in the bus station café!!) And settled in to wait for my bus. As the time approached I checked the screens in the station to confirm the time and the bus stop number; definitely 1:15 and stop number 4. I went to the stop and the display said “Figueres 13:15” and I waited. 1:15 came and went, but no bus. I’d been intermittently checking other stops to make sure the bus hadn’t pulled in elsewhere, and it hadn’t, then at half one the display at stop four went blank.
I went into the station and my bus had disappeared from the display. The ticket office was closed due to the holiday, so I asked the girl at the bar and she said “Ah, no bus until 6:45”
“But, but.. what about the screens, and the display on stop 4”
“Oh, they don’t work on a Sunday. And today is a Sunday”
My jaw dropped. I pulled it back up to order another beer. Just then a Catalan chap drinking a coffee at the bar asked me, in perfect English, “So where do you need to get to?”. I ended up drinking beer with and chatting to my new friend Claudio (called himself Claudi, which was quite amusing as there wasn’t a cloud in the sky) for the next three hours. At the bus station. He was a professional translator who lived next door to the station and the bar was his local - he had a tab there! He advised me to get an earlier bus back to Girona and catch a bus or train from there to Figueres, then on to Roses.
I followed his advice, but decided to leave the onward journey until tomorrow when the schedules won’t include imaginary buses. So I’m back in Girona, in the same square I think I sent my first holiday message from, heading on to Roses tomorrow.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Have a look at my response to it upthread.
Our GDP calculation methodology is affected by our leaving the single market?
We cant put even the perecentage of graduates we have currently in degree level jobs. Most are doing jobs that used to require a levels or even o levels. Why doesnt the twat just fuck off
Blair and New Labour had thirteen years to sort tertiary education out, and stonking big majorities with which to do it. I am far from convinced they did any good, and suspect they did a great deal of harm.
Now a policy which said we will pitch university places at a few percentage over graduate jobs available would have made sense then if the theory more graduates meant more graduate level jobs then the level would have risen naturally.
However all he managed to do was make it almost mandatory to goto university for any non manual job as even working for example in insurance and just filling out forms for customers you rang....doesn't need a degree as its hardly rocket science but they will still ask for one
A question: what is the main point of tertiary education from the state's point of view? Is it to make young people feel like they've achieved something, to train young people up for good jobs, to provide skills the country needs, or something else?
IMO that question needs answering before the form of tertiary education can start to be considered.
I think we need to consider where economically productive jobs come from, and whether these take a skilled, intelligent workforce.
If we look at international competitors then rates of Tertiary education are similar to our own, with Germany and Italy the exception. South Korea has a 70% rate for example.
It seems that there is a PB consensus that Britons are less suited for degree level education than other countries, particularly with other peoples children/grandchildren in mind. I disagree, the problem of British Tertiary education is more the nature and quality of the courses than that of the applicants.
The problem is not of the suitability of the british for tertiary education. The problem is the lack of jobs that actually really require a degree level education. South Korea for example has a lot of high tech jobs and I suspect a lot of their graduates aren't doing media studies and other such bollocks courses
Our cultural industries are amongst our strongest earners, while don't you often moan about how software pay has stagnated for decades?
I think there are a lot of poor value courses out there, but a well skilled workforce will generate its own job opportunities. Indeed isn't that what productive economic growth looks like?
Yes and no. I really detest the blinkered thinking that doesn’t appreciate the strength (weakened by less EU migration) of the UK’s cultural sector.
But a LOT of kids bounce into “media studies” just “because”. Perhaps media studies is getting a bad rap though. I believe the modern poster boy is “criminology”.
It is genuinely amazing how many young people are studying "criminology" at degree level
It must have a reputation as a really soft touch. I fear for these kids with their useless "criminology" degrees and enormous debts in about 5-10 years
The same thing happened with Psychology decades back
The universities tend to be shit, as well:
Solent University (Southampton) 18 Criminology degrees
Three people in my year at school did criminology out of about 120.
I can't really talk having done Economics...
Economics degrees have very high ROI.
I agree, and have a great job as a result, but I'm not convinced there is much more value added in the course itself except a good understanding of incentive and expectation (at least at my uni).
I got loads from the clubs & societies though.
The first page of a great economics book described the whole field thus:
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
Average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is 115. Fully one standard deviation above the “human average”
Meanwhile American Jews are at least twice as rich, on average, as non Jewish Americans
“Much of the Jewish American community lead middle class lifestyles.[130] While the median household net worth of the typical American family is $99,500, among American Jews the figure is $443,000.[131][132] In addition, the median Jewish American income is estimated to be in the range of $97,000 to $98,000, nearly twice as high the American national median.”
Haven't read much on some of the new local council boundaries, I've probably only noticed the Cumbria one as it affects me. Are there any other quite substantial boundary changes in the locals that may affect how things change around total numbers of controlled councils? And do people think it will affect Boris' defence against his upcoming dethroning (hopefully)? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-61098347.amp
Would it be too complex to ask why, if they are making it Cumberland, and Westmorland and Furness, didn't they just make it Cumberland? And not put a significant area around Penrith into the other one? Or would that have been too easy?
I’m furious they didn’t split it into Cumberland, Westmorland and Furness.
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
Average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is 115. Fully one standard deviation above the “human average”
Meanwhile American Jews are at least twice as rich, on average, as non Jewish Americans
“Much of the Jewish American community lead middle class lifestyles.[130] While the median household net worth of the typical American family is $99,500, among American Jews the figure is $443,000.[131][132] In addition, the median Jewish American income is estimated to be in the range of $97,000 to $98,000, nearly twice as high the American national median.”
Forget Africa, are you honestly claiming there is no link between these two facts?
I know this is one of those allegedly taboo subjects you like to masturbate about, but is it possible that IQ here is simply measuring “cultural propensity to earn money”?
After all, the Flynn Effect suggested that we were all improving our IQs (and now that we are all degrading them).
Ooh. A little bit of bigoted anti-Semitic stereotyping. Bit early for that no? “Those Jews and their money making propensities”
We cant put even the perecentage of graduates we have currently in degree level jobs. Most are doing jobs that used to require a levels or even o levels. Why doesnt the twat just fuck off
Blair and New Labour had thirteen years to sort tertiary education out, and stonking big majorities with which to do it. I am far from convinced they did any good, and suspect they did a great deal of harm.
Now a policy which said we will pitch university places at a few percentage over graduate jobs available would have made sense then if the theory more graduates meant more graduate level jobs then the level would have risen naturally.
However all he managed to do was make it almost mandatory to goto university for any non manual job as even working for example in insurance and just filling out forms for customers you rang....doesn't need a degree as its hardly rocket science but they will still ask for one
A question: what is the main point of tertiary education from the state's point of view? Is it to make young people feel like they've achieved something, to train young people up for good jobs, to provide skills the country needs, or something else?
IMO that question needs answering before the form of tertiary education can start to be considered.
I think we need to consider where economically productive jobs come from, and whether these take a skilled, intelligent workforce.
If we look at international competitors then rates of Tertiary education are similar to our own, with Germany and Italy the exception. South Korea has a 70% rate for example.
It seems that there is a PB consensus that Britons are less suited for degree level education than other countries, particularly with other peoples children/grandchildren in mind. I disagree, the problem of British Tertiary education is more the nature and quality of the courses than that of the applicants.
The problem is not of the suitability of the british for tertiary education. The problem is the lack of jobs that actually really require a degree level education. South Korea for example has a lot of high tech jobs and I suspect a lot of their graduates aren't doing media studies and other such bollocks courses
Our cultural industries are amongst our strongest earners, while don't you often moan about how software pay has stagnated for decades?
I think there are a lot of poor value courses out there, but a well skilled workforce will generate its own job opportunities. Indeed isn't that what productive economic growth looks like?
Yes and no. I really detest the blinkered thinking that doesn’t appreciate the strength (weakened by less EU migration) of the UK’s cultural sector.
But a LOT of kids bounce into “media studies” just “because”. Perhaps media studies is getting a bad rap though. I believe the modern poster boy is “criminology”.
It is genuinely amazing how many young people are studying "criminology" at degree level
It must have a reputation as a really soft touch. I fear for these kids with their useless "criminology" degrees and enormous debts in about 5-10 years
The same thing happened with Psychology decades back
The universities tend to be shit, as well:
Solent University (Southampton) 18 Criminology degrees
Three people in my year at school did criminology out of about 120.
I can't really talk having done Economics...
Economics degrees have very high ROI.
I agree, and have a great job as a result, but I'm not convinced there is much more value added in the course itself except a good understanding of incentive and expectation (at least at my uni).
I got loads from the clubs & societies though.
The first page of a great economics book described the whole field thus:
People respond to incentives. The rest is filler.
I thought the first page was
"Welcome to economics, the science of explaining why the predictions you made in the past did not come true."
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Where do you get your number of taxpayers from?
about 40 million adults in the country, about 50% or so percent pay any form of direct taxation yes couldnt be bothered to look up the exact percentage as its close enough. Its above 20 mill by a mill or two but just did a rough sum of 50% as close enough
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
Average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is 115. Fully one standard deviation above the “human average”
Meanwhile American Jews are at least twice as rich, on average, as non Jewish Americans
“Much of the Jewish American community lead middle class lifestyles.[130] While the median household net worth of the typical American family is $99,500, among American Jews the figure is $443,000.[131][132] In addition, the median Jewish American income is estimated to be in the range of $97,000 to $98,000, nearly twice as high the American national median.”
Forget Africa, are you honestly claiming there is no link between these two facts?
I know this is one of those allegedly taboo subjects you like to masturbate about, but is it possible that IQ here is simply measuring “cultural propensity to earn money”?
After all, the Flynn Effect suggested that we were all improving our IQs (and now that we are all degrading them).
Ooh. A little bit of bigoted anti-Semitic stereotyping. But early for that no? “Those Jews and their money making propensities”
Ah ok. I see what you are trying to do there.
I mean to say that some cultures (East Asian, Jewish, sharp-elbowed types from Islington) value certain things which then translate into earning potential.
Others (white working class, Somalis etc) seem to struggle.
How else to explain the differing educational performances of West Indian, West African, and Somali?
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Where do you get your number of taxpayers from?
about 40 million adults in the country, about 50% or so percent pay any form of direct taxation yes couldnt be bothered to look up the exact percentage as its close enough. Its above 20 mill by a mill or two but just did a rough sum of 50% as close enough
VAT says hi!
I specifically mentioned direct taxation = income tax and national insurance. Even if you divide by all adults in the uk it is still 250£
We cant put even the perecentage of graduates we have currently in degree level jobs. Most are doing jobs that used to require a levels or even o levels. Why doesnt the twat just fuck off
Blair and New Labour had thirteen years to sort tertiary education out, and stonking big majorities with which to do it. I am far from convinced they did any good, and suspect they did a great deal of harm.
Now a policy which said we will pitch university places at a few percentage over graduate jobs available would have made sense then if the theory more graduates meant more graduate level jobs then the level would have risen naturally.
However all he managed to do was make it almost mandatory to goto university for any non manual job as even working for example in insurance and just filling out forms for customers you rang....doesn't need a degree as its hardly rocket science but they will still ask for one
A question: what is the main point of tertiary education from the state's point of view? Is it to make young people feel like they've achieved something, to train young people up for good jobs, to provide skills the country needs, or something else?
IMO that question needs answering before the form of tertiary education can start to be considered.
I think we need to consider where economically productive jobs come from, and whether these take a skilled, intelligent workforce.
If we look at international competitors then rates of Tertiary education are similar to our own, with Germany and Italy the exception. South Korea has a 70% rate for example.
It seems that there is a PB consensus that Britons are less suited for degree level education than other countries, particularly with other peoples children/grandchildren in mind. I disagree, the problem of British Tertiary education is more the nature and quality of the courses than that of the applicants.
The problem is not of the suitability of the british for tertiary education. The problem is the lack of jobs that actually really require a degree level education. South Korea for example has a lot of high tech jobs and I suspect a lot of their graduates aren't doing media studies and other such bollocks courses
Our cultural industries are amongst our strongest earners, while don't you often moan about how software pay has stagnated for decades?
I think there are a lot of poor value courses out there, but a well skilled workforce will generate its own job opportunities. Indeed isn't that what productive economic growth looks like?
Yes and no. I really detest the blinkered thinking that doesn’t appreciate the strength (weakened by less EU migration) of the UK’s cultural sector.
But a LOT of kids bounce into “media studies” just “because”. Perhaps media studies is getting a bad rap though. I believe the modern poster boy is “criminology”.
It is genuinely amazing how many young people are studying "criminology" at degree level
It must have a reputation as a really soft touch. I fear for these kids with their useless "criminology" degrees and enormous debts in about 5-10 years
The same thing happened with Psychology decades back
The universities tend to be shit, as well:
Solent University (Southampton) 18 Criminology degrees
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
Average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is 115. Fully one standard deviation above the “human average”
Meanwhile American Jews are at least twice as rich, on average, as non Jewish Americans
“Much of the Jewish American community lead middle class lifestyles.[130] While the median household net worth of the typical American family is $99,500, among American Jews the figure is $443,000.[131][132] In addition, the median Jewish American income is estimated to be in the range of $97,000 to $98,000, nearly twice as high the American national median.”
Forget Africa, are you honestly claiming there is no link between these two facts?
I know this is one of those allegedly taboo subjects you like to masturbate about, but is it possible that IQ here is simply measuring “cultural propensity to earn money”?
After all, the Flynn Effect suggested that we were all improving our IQs (and now that we are all degrading them).
Ooh. A little bit of bigoted anti-Semitic stereotyping. Bit early for that no? “Those Jews and their money making propensities”
Plenty of wealthy Jews here.
Indeed, Epping Forest is the 12th highest constituency in terms of Jewish population in the whole UK.
Many top lawyers and doctors amongst them as well as entrepreneurs, all of which needs a high IQ.
I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?
He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
Blair is diametrically wrong, again. The last thing the country should be doing, is encouraging more young people to get £50k into debt studying something worthless.
If I had an 18 year old, I’d be either telling them to learn a trade, or to get a white-collar apprenticeship that might result in a sponsored degree a few years down the line.
Doesn't that depend entirely on said 18 year old's interests and aptitude?
My daughter wants be a vet. She knows that involves some serious studying. (But on the positive side, has excellent job prospects on the far side.) I'm not going to try and force her to take an apprenticeship to do something she's not interested in.
Of course, there are certain professions (medicine, engineering, academia etc.) which absolutely require the degree. There’s also an awful lot of white collar jobs, including accounting, law, IT and software, that really don’t require the degree and can be entered at 18 with a pathway to future qualifications, without the £50k debt around your neck aged 21.
The advice is to think carefully, rather than assume that stundying away from home for a three year degree aged 18 is automatically the way to go, given the finances now involved in the decision. It was a different calculation for our generation two or three decades ago.
We cant put even the perecentage of graduates we have currently in degree level jobs. Most are doing jobs that used to require a levels or even o levels. Why doesnt the twat just fuck off
Blair and New Labour had thirteen years to sort tertiary education out, and stonking big majorities with which to do it. I am far from convinced they did any good, and suspect they did a great deal of harm.
Now a policy which said we will pitch university places at a few percentage over graduate jobs available would have made sense then if the theory more graduates meant more graduate level jobs then the level would have risen naturally.
However all he managed to do was make it almost mandatory to goto university for any non manual job as even working for example in insurance and just filling out forms for customers you rang....doesn't need a degree as its hardly rocket science but they will still ask for one
A question: what is the main point of tertiary education from the state's point of view? Is it to make young people feel like they've achieved something, to train young people up for good jobs, to provide skills the country needs, or something else?
IMO that question needs answering before the form of tertiary education can start to be considered.
If the state is financing it then its very much the first, if the pupils are finacing it very much more because you want to do it for personal growth. The second however needs to be caveated heavily for those pupils and they need to be stop being told doing a degree will make you better off job's wise. I am sorry there are just not that many jobs that require a degree. Take mine I am a software engineer since back in the late 80's. Never needed a degree back then however you try breaking in as a new start now without a degree and you are pretty much out of luck. Not because you need a degree to do it but because your cv will get auto binned. In fact and heard it said in a few of my workplaces now...first thing they tell a new start from uni is forget what they taught you we will teach you how to do it right.
I've found quite a few people without degrees jobs as entry level software engineers, and there are apprenticeships that aren't just "IT" now. Give it 5 years and all the big SW firms will have twigged that it is cheaper and better to hire talented people into apprenticeships for what is more craft than science in 95% of cases.
(We are also about to see a massive (relative) collapse in the US software industry. I know several large West Coast businesses who have finally noticed that they are paying unbelievable salaries to average engineers and that they don't need them to be in the office.)
As a hirer of developer talent, I'd say the major beneficiaries right now are developers in cheaper parts of the US. We have a couple of people in Kentucky for example.
I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?
He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
Blair is diametrically wrong, again. The last thing the country should be doing, is encouraging more young people to get £50k into debt studying something worthless.
If I had an 18 year old, I’d be either telling them to learn a trade, or to get a white-collar apprenticeship that might result in a sponsored degree a few years down the line.
Doesn't that depend entirely on said 18 year old's interests and aptitude?
My daughter wants be a vet. She knows that involves some serious studying. (But on the positive side, has excellent job prospects on the far side.) I'm not going to try and force her to take an apprenticeship to do something she's not interested in.
Of course, there are certain professions (medicine, engineering, academia etc.) which absolutely require the degree. There’s also an awful lot of white collar jobs, including accounting and law, that really don’t require the degree and can be entered at 18 with a pathway to future qualifications, without the £50k debt around your neck aged 21.
The advice is to think carefully, rather than assume that staying for a three year degree away from home aged 18 is automatically the way to go.
My niece is close to qualifying as an accountant having taken the apprenticeship route. Saved her an awful lot of money.
England has a lower population density than the Netherlands to name one other country. "Most densly populated on Earth" my arse.
Population density is irrelevant. What matters is housing stock. Holland has 400,000 (over 5%) empty homes. England has 250,000 (1%)
We could, y’know, build more houses.
Yes, let’s do that. I might be able to find somewhere to rent then (I’m homeless at the moment). But until they’re built, we really don’t have much room.
Going home tomorrow after an excellent family holiday in Baden-Wurttenberg. It's been helped by spectacularly good weather, but I have to say that Germany is an incredible place. Everything just works, everything is clean and well-organised, there's a palpable aura of efficiency and prosperity everywhere. Something has gone very wrong in Britain that we have fallen so far behind, our public spaces look so shabby and broken by comparison. And while Germany sits at the heart of a market of hundreds of millions of people, with trade and travel across open borders, we have shut ourselves off, growing poorer and ever more mean-spirited, led by an incompetent liar. It doesn't feel great to be British right now.
Hmm
Germany is definitely a fine country with much to admire, but you were in Baden Wurttenburg? It is one of the wealthiest parts of a wealthy nation, the third richest German state, with a GDP per cap of €47k - equivalent to Australia
You might have come back with a different view if you had taken your hols in a state like
Saxony Anhalt, GDP per cap €28,800, or Mecklenburg, GDP per cap €28,940 - more like a poorer part of Italy
However I agree that western mainland Europe generally maintain the public realm better than the UK. It boils my piss that we degrade our city centres. We are not poor. We can afford nice places, we can afford to keep them well maintained
I would vote for a party that promised to fix this. Start by getting rid of the fucking filthy phone kiosks. How hard is that??!
What's amazing is that those parts of east Germany are now richer than parts of the UK.
From communism to (relative) prosperity in three decades.
I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?
He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
Blair is diametrically wrong, again. The last thing the country should be doing, is encouraging more young people to get £50k into debt studying something worthless.
If I had an 18 year old, I’d be either telling them to learn a trade, or to get a white-collar apprenticeship that might result in a sponsored degree a few years down the line.
Doesn't that depend entirely on said 18 year old's interests and aptitude?
My daughter wants be a vet. She knows that involves some serious studying. (But on the positive side, has excellent job prospects on the far side.) I'm not going to try and force her to take an apprenticeship to do something she's not interested in.
Of course, there are certain professions (medicine, engineering, academia etc.) which absolutely require the degree. There’s also an awful lot of white collar jobs, including accounting, law, IT and software, that really don’t require the degree and can be entered at 18 with a pathway to future qualifications, without the £50k debt around your neck aged 21.
The advice is to think carefully, rather than assume that staying for a three year degree away from home aged 18 is automatically the way to go.
There aren't many law, software or accountancy vacancies in Ashington. What if you don't like your home? Or your hometown? Not everything in life is a purely financial cost/benefit analysis. Nor should it be at 18.
Haven't read much on some of the new local council boundaries, I've probably only noticed the Cumbria one as it affects me. Are there any other quite substantial boundary changes in the locals that may affect how things change around total numbers of controlled councils? And do people think it will affect Boris' defence against his upcoming dethroning (hopefully)? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-61098347.amp
Would it be too complex to ask why, if they are making it Cumberland, and Westmorland and Furness, didn't they just make it Cumberland? And not put a significant area around Penrith into the other one? Or would that have been too easy?
I’m furious they didn’t split it into Cumberland, Westmorland and Furness.
The new split is ahistorical crap.
I suppose they wanted to lump 3 councils together each into the new authorities even though Penrith was in the historical Cumberland.
I can't seem to find details of the new boundary boundaries.
I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?
He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
Blair is diametrically wrong, again. The last thing the country should be doing, is encouraging more young people to get £50k into debt studying something worthless.
If I had an 18 year old, I’d be either telling them to learn a trade, or to get a white-collar apprenticeship that might result in a sponsored degree a few years down the line.
Doesn't that depend entirely on said 18 year old's interests and aptitude?
My daughter wants be a vet. She knows that involves some serious studying. (But on the positive side, has excellent job prospects on the far side.) I'm not going to try and force her to take an apprenticeship to do something she's not interested in.
Of course, there are certain professions (medicine, engineering, academia etc.) which absolutely require the degree. There’s also an awful lot of white collar jobs, including accounting, law, IT and software, that really don’t require the degree and can be entered at 18 with a pathway to future qualifications, without the £50k debt around your neck aged 21.
The advice is to think carefully, rather than assume that staying for a three year degree away from home aged 18 is automatically the way to go.
Indeed when my son came up to 18 I was the only person apparently that sat down and said there were other routes he could go than university. Everyone else was pressuring him to go as the only route. He ended up going to uni got a masters and regretted it ever since as the biggest waste of his time ever as all it taught him is he didn't want to work in a chemistry lab.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
So, the Govt’s position is: There’s no room for those fleeing war and tyranny, but there is a desperate need for aerobics instructors. Maybe we could just send those coming from Syria on a 12-week course in how to be an aerobics instructor rather them sending them to Rwanda? It would be cheaper.
The Germans pay higher taxes and spend more on public services, including keeping their towns tidy.
The British maximise their utility by paying less tax, keeping their public spaces in squalor, and buying tat from abroad.
The Swiss pay less taxes than both and also have a higher gdp per capita than both and top public services
Denmark has higher taxes and a higher GDP per capita. Saudi Arabia has lower taxes and lower GDP per capita.
Monaco and Luxembourg and Bermuda and Ireland and Switzerland have lower taxes than both and higher gdp per capita than both
One thing worth noting is that the UK has really slipped down the GDP per capita rankings in the last 10 years. Even NZ looks ready to over-take.
The countries above it have a full range of tax regimes from very high (Denmark) to quite low.
And yet I feel richer, and the country looks richer, than it did in 2012. Is it just that we have imported vast numbers of people - so GDP up by GDP per capita down?
That, in a nutshell, would be it - if you import large numbers of people to do lowly paid, service level jobs, guess what - GDP per capita goes down.
Funnily enough, corporate profitability has been going up over the same period. Guess who has been winning from the trade off?
Do you have numbers on corporate profitability in the UK and comparisons for countries without as much low skilled immigration?
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Have a look at my response to it upthread.
Our GDP calculation methodology is affected by our leaving the single market?
1. Britain’s GDP underperformance starts earlier than the formal exit.
2. GDP data that spans Covid is essentially meaningless, or rather it tells us more about the timing and response to Covid (and perhaps different approaches to GDP measurement) than anything else.
Going home tomorrow after an excellent family holiday in Baden-Wurttenberg. It's been helped by spectacularly good weather, but I have to say that Germany is an incredible place. Everything just works, everything is clean and well-organised, there's a palpable aura of efficiency and prosperity everywhere. Something has gone very wrong in Britain that we have fallen so far behind, our public spaces look so shabby and broken by comparison. And while Germany sits at the heart of a market of hundreds of millions of people, with trade and travel across open borders, we have shut ourselves off, growing poorer and ever more mean-spirited, led by an incompetent liar. It doesn't feel great to be British right now.
Hmm
Germany is definitely a fine country with much to admire, but you were in Baden Wurttenburg? It is one of the wealthiest parts of a wealthy nation, the third richest German state, with a GDP per cap of €47k - equivalent to Australia
You might have come back with a different view if you had taken your hols in a state like
Saxony Anhalt, GDP per cap €28,800, or Mecklenburg, GDP per cap €28,940 - more like a poorer part of Italy
However I agree that western mainland Europe generally maintain the public realm better than the UK. It boils my piss that we degrade our city centres. We are not poor. We can afford nice places, we can afford to keep them well maintained
I would vote for a party that promised to fix this. Start by getting rid of the fucking filthy phone kiosks. How hard is that??!
What's amazing is that those parts of east Germany are now richer than parts of the UK.
From communism to (relative) prosperity in three decades.
It’s because Germany really does do “Levelling Up”, instead of just pretending to do so.
I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?
He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
Blair is diametrically wrong, again. The last thing the country should be doing, is encouraging more young people to get £50k into debt studying something worthless.
If I had an 18 year old, I’d be either telling them to learn a trade, or to get a white-collar apprenticeship that might result in a sponsored degree a few years down the line.
Doesn't that depend entirely on said 18 year old's interests and aptitude?
My daughter wants be a vet. She knows that involves some serious studying. (But on the positive side, has excellent job prospects on the far side.) I'm not going to try and force her to take an apprenticeship to do something she's not interested in.
Of course, there are certain professions (medicine, engineering, academia etc.) which absolutely require the degree. There’s also an awful lot of white collar jobs, including accounting, law, IT and software, that really don’t require the degree and can be entered at 18 with a pathway to future qualifications, without the £50k debt around your neck aged 21.
The advice is to think carefully, rather than assume that stundying away from home for a three year degree aged 18 is automatically the way to go, given the finances now involved in the decision. It was a different calculation for our generation two or three decades ago.
Agree with much of that, though most lawyers will have law degrees, certainly if they want to be barristers rather than solicitors
The Germans pay higher taxes and spend more on public services, including keeping their towns tidy.
The British maximise their utility by paying less tax, keeping their public spaces in squalor, and buying tat from abroad.
The Swiss pay less taxes than both and also have a higher gdp per capita than both and top public services
Denmark has higher taxes and a higher GDP per capita. Saudi Arabia has lower taxes and lower GDP per capita.
Monaco and Luxembourg and Bermuda and Ireland and Switzerland have lower taxes than both and higher gdp per capita than both
One thing worth noting is that the UK has really slipped down the GDP per capita rankings in the last 10 years. Even NZ looks ready to over-take.
The countries above it have a full range of tax regimes from very high (Denmark) to quite low.
And yet I feel richer, and the country looks richer, than it did in 2012. Is it just that we have imported vast numbers of people - so GDP up by GDP per capita down?
That, in a nutshell, would be it - if you import large numbers of people to do lowly paid, service level jobs, guess what - GDP per capita goes down.
Funnily enough, corporate profitability has been going up over the same period. Guess who has been winning from the trade off?
Do you have numbers on corporate profitability in the UK and comparisons for countries without as much low skilled immigration?
A bit naughty there Robert as you can only really compare between companies in differing countries that can profit from low skilled immigration. ie those where the work force has to be present in the country. Corporates like for example Apple which have used globalisation to reduce wage bills by offshoring manufacture while keeping prices non globablised cannot be included in such a comparison.
No judgement on what a comparison would show however as not sure where you could find such figures
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Where do you get your number of taxpayers from?
about 40 million adults in the country, about 50% or so percent pay any form of direct taxation yes couldnt be bothered to look up the exact percentage as its close enough. Its above 20 mill by a mill or two but just did a rough sum of 50% as close enough
VAT says hi!
I specifically mentioned direct taxation = income tax and national insurance. Even if you divide by all adults in the uk it is still 250£
What you actually said was "number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million". It is often overlooked that just about every man, woman and child in the UK is a tax payer.
Regarding the EU contributions which you so vehemently objected to - it was your right to object, and now you no longer have to pay them. Whether that makes you any better off is a moot point.
If I knew more about you I could probably identify some of my taxes that benefit you but not me. I could object to those but that would be to miss the point of the nation state, where we all pay our taxes and see them distributed based on the policies and parties the nation as a whole voted for.
Haven't read much on some of the new local council boundaries, I've probably only noticed the Cumbria one as it affects me. Are there any other quite substantial boundary changes in the locals that may affect how things change around total numbers of controlled councils? And do people think it will affect Boris' defence against his upcoming dethroning (hopefully)? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-61098347.amp
Would it be too complex to ask why, if they are making it Cumberland, and Westmorland and Furness, didn't they just make it Cumberland? And not put a significant area around Penrith into the other one? Or would that have been too easy?
I’m furious they didn’t split it into Cumberland, Westmorland and Furness.
The new split is ahistorical crap.
I suppose they wanted to lump 3 councils together each into the new authorities even though Penrith was in the historical Cumberland.
I can't seem to find details of the new boundary boundaries.
Cumberland is a must win council for Starmer.
I think there were a number of proposals, an East West split, only 1 and the bastard we've ended up with as probably the least worst option. Agree it is very much a must win for Starker though but from what I've seen so far labour seem to be trying round here unlike the conservatives, unless they're just not that active in my little corner.
Most of those countries are playing a game only small nations can partake in - providing tax incentives to filter off wealth. They are, basically, parasites.
It's also a bit of an accounting trick. Companies are more likely to declare their profits there so GDP is higher. That's isn't necessarily reflected in living standards though.
You need to be a little careful with international rankings because they are typically stated in US dollars and gbp significantly devalued post the 2016 referendum
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
Because we don't have enough workers and the ratio of workers/rich pensioners is out of whack. That will be the case whether we are in or out of the EU, or have a Tory or even UKIP govt. Tory and Brexit voters were lied to by Tories and Leave politicians.
Please blame them for lying, rather than the system, the metropolitan elite or the migrants.
Most of those countries are playing a game only small nations can partake in - providing tax incentives to filter off wealth. They are, basically, parasites.
It's also a bit of an accounting trick. Companies are more likely to declare their profits there so GDP is higher. That's isn't necessarily reflected in living standards though.
You need to be a little careful with international rankings because they are typically stated in US dollars and gbp significantly devalued post the 2016 referendum
I refer you to the Independent article I posted upthread, which contains further links within.
I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?
He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
Blair is diametrically wrong, again. The last thing the country should be doing, is encouraging more young people to get £50k into debt studying something worthless.
If I had an 18 year old, I’d be either telling them to learn a trade, or to get a white-collar apprenticeship that might result in a sponsored degree a few years down the line.
Doesn't that depend entirely on said 18 year old's interests and aptitude?
My daughter wants be a vet. She knows that involves some serious studying. (But on the positive side, has excellent job prospects on the far side.) I'm not going to try and force her to take an apprenticeship to do something she's not interested in.
Of course, there are certain professions (medicine, engineering, academia etc.) which absolutely require the degree. There’s also an awful lot of white collar jobs, including accounting, law, IT and software, that really don’t require the degree and can be entered at 18 with a pathway to future qualifications, without the £50k debt around your neck aged 21.
The advice is to think carefully, rather than assume that staying for a three year degree away from home aged 18 is automatically the way to go.
Indeed when my son came up to 18 I was the only person apparently that sat down and said there were other routes he could go than university. Everyone else was pressuring him to go as the only route. He ended up going to uni got a masters and regretted it ever since as the biggest waste of his time ever as all it taught him is he didn't want to work in a chemistry lab.
Oh bollox! You have a son? How much of my taxes have gone on his education?
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
Average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is 115. Fully one standard deviation above the “human average”
Meanwhile American Jews are at least twice as rich, on average, as non Jewish Americans
“Much of the Jewish American community lead middle class lifestyles.[130] While the median household net worth of the typical American family is $99,500, among American Jews the figure is $443,000.[131][132] In addition, the median Jewish American income is estimated to be in the range of $97,000 to $98,000, nearly twice as high the American national median.”
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Where do you get your number of taxpayers from?
about 40 million adults in the country, about 50% or so percent pay any form of direct taxation yes couldnt be bothered to look up the exact percentage as its close enough. Its above 20 mill by a mill or two but just did a rough sum of 50% as close enough
VAT says hi!
I specifically mentioned direct taxation = income tax and national insurance. Even if you divide by all adults in the uk it is still 250£
What you actually said was "number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million". It is often overlooked that just about every man, woman and child in the UK is a tax payer.
Regarding the EU contributions which you so vehemently objected to - it was your right to object, and now you no longer have to pay them. Whether that makes you any better off is a moot point.
If I knew more about you I could probably identify some of my taxes that benefit you but not me. I could object to those but that would be to miss the point of the nation state, where we all pay our taxes and see them distributed based on the policies and parties the nation as a whole voted for.
And the policy I voted for which was brexit has seen them redirected. Therefore we agree. It was a policy voted for by the country and the policy voted for was enacted. I was merely pointing out to Gardenwalker that his freedom wasn't actually free but was being paid for by a lot of people to whom the freedom had no value so he should stop calling it a freedom and realise that a lot of other people were paying for it.
We can all find things our taxes pay for and we object to. The difference is most of us don't whine incessantly about it like a petulant toddler when people take a democratic vote and say yes we don't want to pay for that anymore.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Have a look at my response to it upthread.
Our GDP calculation methodology is affected by our leaving the single market?
1. Britain’s GDP underperformance starts earlier than the formal exit.
2. GDP data that spans Covid is essentially meaningless, or rather it tells us more about the timing and response to Covid (and perhaps different approaches to GDP measurement) than anything else.
2016 to 2019 vs other big western european countries. GDP growth, per the world bank:
I’ve just ordered “Creamy rice with rabbit and vegetables” for my dinner. I’ve been told the rabbit is good in Catalunya. I think I’ll go for a glass of crianza with it.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
Robbed the few that wanted the right to have the freedom to live and work of their freedom to move while saving the 98% of people that didnt care about it a lot of tax
Tax is at an all time high, in part because overall economic growth has underperformed since we left the EU.
Much of a muchness:
Actually, that shows us outperforming since the Brexit transition period ended.
Of course, it's a bit more complicated than that as (a) covid bounce back, and (b) we were growing faster than the EZ from before brexit
All but one of the BOTTOM 10 for which we have figures has lower taxes than the UK.
So what, they are not developed nations so that is not comparing like with like. Of developed nations like the UK those with the lowest taxes generally have higher gdp per capita than those with the highest taxes
So you want to prove that wealth is inversely correlated to tax rates, and to do that you want to exclude low-wealth countries.
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
When did I ever say that?
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
Aaand we're back to the thickie-Africans "discussion". Fucking wonderful.
Average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is 115. Fully one standard deviation above the “human average”
Meanwhile American Jews are at least twice as rich, on average, as non Jewish Americans
“Much of the Jewish American community lead middle class lifestyles.[130] While the median household net worth of the typical American family is $99,500, among American Jews the figure is $443,000.[131][132] In addition, the median Jewish American income is estimated to be in the range of $97,000 to $98,000, nearly twice as high the American national median.”
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
The government has realised that the economy doesn’t work at all without foreign labour, and that the tertiary ed sector is also fucked without foreign students.
In effect, we’ve replaced EU migrants with South Asian, West African and Filipino ones.
Funny how the right wing press avoid talking about this . So Brits have lost their freedom of movement rights so that more people can come from other non EU countries . Countries that don’t offer reciprocal rights and even if they did hardly any Brit would want to move anyway .
Pretty much no one wanted to move to the EU in the first place, I believe australia and america were both more popular than the EU and especially if you take out those not moving for work purposes. Pretty much the majority of those moving to the eu were retirees and John Thaw
As I said, South Asia, West Africa and the Philippines.
Not Australia or, very much, the US.
I believe america and australia are still very much prime emigration targets for uk people
The point made was that Britain has essentially exchanged migration from countries with which it enjoyed a reciprocal right to FOM (the EU) with those it doesn’t.
The fact that people want to migrate to Australia doesn’t change that.
The fact is not a lot of people ever made use of their freedom to move and every taxpayer was paying through the nose for something only a few gave two shits about.
Right, sure they were.
Cost of being an eu member circa 10 billion a year number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
Where do you get your number of taxpayers from?
about 40 million adults in the country, about 50% or so percent pay any form of direct taxation yes couldnt be bothered to look up the exact percentage as its close enough. Its above 20 mill by a mill or two but just did a rough sum of 50% as close enough
VAT says hi!
I specifically mentioned direct taxation = income tax and national insurance. Even if you divide by all adults in the uk it is still 250£
What you actually said was "number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million". It is often overlooked that just about every man, woman and child in the UK is a tax payer.
Regarding the EU contributions which you so vehemently objected to - it was your right to object, and now you no longer have to pay them. Whether that makes you any better off is a moot point.
If I knew more about you I could probably identify some of my taxes that benefit you but not me. I could object to those but that would be to miss the point of the nation state, where we all pay our taxes and see them distributed based on the policies and parties the nation as a whole voted for.
And the policy I voted for which was brexit has seen them redirected. Therefore we agree. It was a policy voted for by the country and the policy voted for was enacted. I was merely pointing out to Gardenwalker that his freedom wasn't actually free but was being paid for by a lot of people to whom the freedom had no value so he should stop calling it a freedom and realise that a lot of other people were paying for it.
We can all find things our taxes pay for and we object to. The difference is most of us don't whine incessantly about it like a petulant toddler when people take a democratic vote and say yes we don't want to pay for that anymore.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Massive spikes in immigration. Feels like Boris overshot with liberalizing work visas. I am fine with a bunch of lower paid NHS and social care workers coming, but seems like we have lowered the salary level too much outside this:
Meanwhile according to the woke, eg @kinabalu, Britain is "not pulling its weight with migrants"
We have huge amounts of net inward migration and a highly liberal points system. But it is never enough. Never
If you drill into the detail, you’ll see that while immigration has gone up significantly, the approach to asylum seekers is to basically fuck off.
Clearly Patel (and or Johnson) have decided that this is what voters want.
I think they have almost got the voters views right, but the occupation list for "skilled" immigration seems off. Are shopkeepers really a shortage profession that can not be filled by UK workers trained up? Administrative workers at universities? Day nursery managers? Youth workers? Copywriters?
It feels like every business lobby group has got their job on the "shortage" list. Combined with the low salary level (26k), you can see why immigration has spiked.
A few more jobs on the shortage list to be a skilled worker:
Aerobics instructor Personal trainer Exporter-importer Accounting clerk Buyer Sales agent Park ranger NVQ assessor Health and safety officer Transport clerk Business support manager Secretary Herd manager Gardener Groundsman Sheet metal worker Pipe fitter Welder Metal bench fitter Air conditioning fitter Car mechanic Vehicle assembler Electrician Bricklayer Carpentry joiner Builder Fencer Carpet fitter Knitter Weaver Shoe repairer Hand sewer Wallpaper printer Baker Baker assistant Bar manager Pottery worker Flower arranger Florist Creche worker Air hostess Window dresser Sales team leader Telephone researcher
They are clearly taking the piss with this "skilled worker" branding.
Of course. The government repeatedly lie and tell people what they want to hear, especially on subjects of immigration because the realities and perceptions don't match.
This has actually really annoyed me now I have seen the detail. Why the hell are phone researchers and gardeners getting skilled worker visas??
If you voted leave you voted for this ! Leavers must feel a bit silly now seeing as all the government has done is replace Europeans with non Europeans and at the same time robbed Brits of their freedom to live and work in 27 countries .
Congratulations!
It does, indeed, seem like a massive bait and switch operation.
I do hope it’s concern for poor misled brexit voters that drives this sentiment, and not that the principal attraction of freedom of movement to a some remainers was that it ensured most immigration consisted of europeans who looked like them.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
I don’t think that was the argument.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Some ‘tackling’ had already happened, like silly rules about minimum income to marry a foreign spouse. How much more could we have squeezed? And why shouldn’t we want the best and the brightest non-europeans?
I’m simply correcting your spurious mischaracterisation of Remainers.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
If I’m misleading with the graph, I’m doing it innocently. Do feel free to correct me. I have no economic training.
Have a look at my response to it upthread.
Our GDP calculation methodology is affected by our leaving the single market?
1. Britain’s GDP underperformance starts earlier than the formal exit.
2. GDP data that spans Covid is essentially meaningless, or rather it tells us more about the timing and response to Covid (and perhaps different approaches to GDP measurement) than anything else.
2016 to 2019 vs other big western european countries. GDP growth, per the world bank:
Of course, you should probably do per Capita... And you should probably rebase all to 100.
Comments
Does... does anyone else see the problem here?
I would be cautiously optimistic about Labour's chances in Cumberland though. That's probably the most interesting northern battleground this year.
It is correlated with average IQ of the nation and lower tax rates.
Developed nations all have average IQs above the global average, hence it is tax rates that largely determines average gdp per capita for them
number of tax payers in the country circa 20 million
average cost per tax payer there = 500£
number of people wanting to move to the eu about 1 million out of 68 million = 1.4%
Sorry why did all those tax payers have to pay up for your freedom of movement exactly?
(1) on topic, Andrew Marr’s article is decidedly downbeat on Labour, even with its poll lead. His claim is that BJ’s criticism of Starmer as a “man without a plan” is cutting through, that dissatisfaction is rising internally with Starmer’s performance and that the Labour front bench is becoming increasingly apathetic (I realise to some that Marr’s view will make them more optimistic on Labour’s chances);
(2) the interview with Sergey Karaganov. What struck me was his use of the word “existential” in the interview, saying that, for the Russian regime, not only would defeat be an existential crisis but also a non-victory. Given Peskov has said Russia won’t use nuclear weapons unless it faces an existential threat, that could point to a greater willingness to use it under certain circumstances. Having said that, it could be a deliberately ploy knowing idiots like me would put 2 and 2 together…
Presumably because he is thick as mince.
The remain campaign’s argument, as I remember it, was that it was legitimate to have worries about levels of immigration, but most immigration was non-EU, so we should concentrate on reducing that. Of course, now that we have registered people under the settlement scheme, we know that most immigration was in fact from the EU. So the remain campaign wasn’t lying, but they were incorrect.
From memory, migration was roughly 50/50 EU/non-EU.
I think the Remainer argument might have been, if we want to reduce migration let’s tackle the 50% we have (in theory) complete control over.
Who can barely string a sentence together.
Suspect your sentiments regarding the relative pride/shame to be felt by Britain and Germany would receive a fairly robust response if shared on the Ukrainian version of PB.
I see you also attempt to peddle misleading data, so I’ll move on to other posters thanks.
Ignoring the ad hominem as it was pretty clear what I said and if you have comprehension problems thats your end not mine.
However the difference in average IQ within the UK is tiny compared to the difference in IQ between us and Somalia on average. Plus of course some developed countries have higher average IQs than us like Singapore and South Korea. However only Singapore has higher gdp per capita than us as it also has significantly lower taxes.
Perhaps take it to angryandbitterbetting.com
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137414816_13
Meanwhile American Jews are at least twice as rich, on average, as non Jewish Americans
“Much of the Jewish American community lead middle class lifestyles.[130] While the median household net worth of the typical American family is $99,500, among American Jews the figure is $443,000.[131][132] In addition, the median Jewish American income is estimated to be in the range of $97,000 to $98,000, nearly twice as high the American national median.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews
Forget Africa, are you honestly claiming there is no link between these two facts?
https://www.newstatesman.com/andrew-marr
And not put a significant area around Penrith into the other one?
Or would that have been too easy?
After all, the Flynn Effect suggested that we were all improving our IQs (and now that we are all degrading them).
I’ve had a weird day today. I set off for an early morning hike up a volcano. About halfway up, and just before it started to get really steep, I found a nice place for my first beer. In some woods, on a mini-peak, I discovered what appeared to be a ruined old fortification, with remains of ancient stone walls in tight curves around the edges - as if they’d once been watch towers. I couldn’t find any information to further enlighten me on it, but it did just feel like people had fought there.
I felt quite a wreck. I had my first stitch of my holiday. I think I was probably still digesting last night’s enormous (and free!) dinner. I was just pondering whether to turn back to town, or press on up the volcano, when I got a message from my young Dutch friend Enzio (who helped me out by letting me stay at his apartment after I got refused entry to my room about ten days ago). He’d had to change his flight home to a week earlier than planned for work reasons, and only had a couple of nights left. He was imploring me to head back to Roses for another night out before he leaves (I must be fun!)
I headed back to town and the bus station. I checked the bus times and there was a bus to Figueres, where I could transfer to Roses, scheduled at 1:15. I got to the bus station nearly an hour early, bought a beer (in the bus station café!!)
And settled in to wait for my bus. As the time approached I checked the screens in the station to confirm the time and the bus stop number; definitely 1:15 and stop number 4. I went to the stop and the display said “Figueres 13:15” and I waited. 1:15 came and went, but no bus. I’d been intermittently checking other stops to make sure the bus hadn’t pulled in elsewhere, and it hadn’t, then at half one the display at stop four went blank.
I went into the station and my bus had disappeared from the display. The ticket office was closed due to the holiday, so I asked the girl at the bar and she said “Ah, no bus until 6:45”
“But, but.. what about the screens, and the display on stop 4”
“Oh, they don’t work on a Sunday. And today is a Sunday”
My jaw dropped. I pulled it back up to order another beer. Just then a Catalan chap drinking a coffee at the bar asked me, in perfect English, “So where do you need to get to?”. I ended up drinking beer with and chatting to my new friend Claudio (called himself Claudi, which was quite amusing as there wasn’t a cloud in the sky) for the next three hours. At the bus station. He was a professional translator who lived next door to the station and the bar was his local - he had a tab there! He advised me to get an earlier bus back to Girona and catch a bus or train from there to Figueres, then on to Roses.
I followed his advice, but decided to leave the onward journey until tomorrow when the schedules won’t include imaginary buses. So I’m back in Girona, in the same square I think I sent my first holiday message from, heading on to Roses tomorrow.
People respond to incentives. The rest is filler.
East Asians have the highest average numerical IQ in the world.
Those are just facts however much the left deny them
The new split is ahistorical crap.
"Welcome to economics, the science of explaining why the predictions you made in the past did not come true."
I mean to say that some cultures (East Asian, Jewish, sharp-elbowed types from Islington) value certain things which then translate into earning potential.
Others (white working class, Somalis etc) seem to struggle.
How else to explain the differing educational performances of West Indian, West African, and Somali?
Worked in the record biz
I have never met someone so desperately keen NOT to ever return to their hometown
Indeed, Epping Forest is the 12th highest constituency in terms of Jewish population in the whole UK.
Many top lawyers and doctors amongst them as well as entrepreneurs, all of which needs a high IQ.
https://www.jpr.org.uk/documents/JPR.Where_jewish_votes_may_matter_most.Guide_to_2015_General_Election.pdf
The advice is to think carefully, rather than assume that stundying away from home for a three year degree aged 18 is automatically the way to go, given the finances now involved in the decision. It was a different calculation for our generation two or three decades ago.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61139735
Zelensky placing him under house arrest is alleged to have sent Putin apoplectic.
From communism to (relative) prosperity in three decades.
What if you don't like your home? Or your hometown? Not everything in life is a purely financial cost/benefit analysis.
Nor should it be at 18.
I can't seem to find details of the new boundary boundaries.
Cumberland is a must win council for Starmer.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-vote-cost-trade-eu-b1843018.html?amp
2. GDP data that spans Covid is essentially meaningless, or rather it tells us more about the timing and response to Covid (and perhaps different approaches to GDP measurement) than anything else.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54774813
Are you really pretending that Monaco is a proper country that can be compared to - say - the UK?
No judgement on what a comparison would show however as not sure where you could find such figures
Regarding the EU contributions which you so vehemently objected to - it was your right to object, and now you no longer have to pay them. Whether that makes you any better off is a moot point.
If I knew more about you I could probably identify some of my taxes that benefit you but not me. I could object to those but that would be to miss the point of the nation state, where we all pay our taxes and see them distributed based on the policies and parties the nation as a whole voted for.
UK corporate profits don't seem to be spiking: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/corporate-profits
Indeed, if you log scaled it (as you should) they appear to have been on an ever decelerating path
Agree it is very much a must win for Starker though but from what I've seen so far labour seem to be trying round here unlike the conservatives, unless they're just not that active in my little corner.
You need to be a little careful with international rankings because they are typically stated in US dollars and gbp significantly devalued post the 2016 referendum
What about Germany and Austria, and Belgium and the Netherlands, and Scandinavia and - last time I checked - France?
I guess not. But I suddenly miss her
Used to let me ***** and ********* and then we’d ******** *** ****** backstage at *******. On E
*sobs quietly for long lost youth*
And her Stoke accent was weirdly sexy. “I luv ya, I juz DO”
Please blame them for lying, rather than the system, the metropolitan elite or the migrants.
;-)
The rest. Well I can't comment.
We can all find things our taxes pay for and we object to. The difference is most of us don't whine incessantly about it like a petulant toddler when people take a democratic vote and say yes we don't want to pay for that anymore.
Of course, it's a bit more complicated than that as (a) covid bounce back, and (b) we were growing faster than the EZ from before brexit
Passover was MASSIVE.
But not a single Easter Bunny in any of the main shops.