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Not good numbers for BoJo/CON ahead of the local elections – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited April 2022 in General
Not good numbers for BoJo/CON ahead of the local elections – politicalbetting.com

NEW @JLPartnersPolls in today’s @thetimesWe asked a nationally representative sample of the British public what they think about Boris Johnson.Of all 2,000 responses, 72% were negative, with 16% positive. The words most commonly used are in the image below. (1/13) pic.twitter.com/9daOfkmcE3

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    First! - since Mike doesn't count.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    "Muscly" doesn't feature then?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    This comment in the thread by Mr Johnson J is also highly germane to Mr Johnson B:

    Overall, partygate dominates views of Boris over Ukraine.

    Fury has not receded. Many negative comments are by people who liked him previously but have now changed their minds.

    When Johnson first took power, only Labour voters would call him a liar. It is now widespread.

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1515936789055389701
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    kinabalu said:

    "Muscly" doesn't feature then?

    Not high up, anyway; nor does 'scholar', 'learned', 'author' or 'classicist'.
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    MalcolmDunnMalcolmDunn Posts: 139
    I wonder if the majority of people will think of Boris Johnson when casting their vote for their local Councillor? The opposition parties had better hope so as there are precious few positive reasons for voting for them.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    I wonder if the majority of people will think of Boris Johnson when casting their vote for their local Councillor? The opposition parties had better hope so as there are precious few positive reasons for voting for them.

    Evidence suggests that yes, people do use local elections to give the national government a kicking.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Wow. That is an awful word cloud for Johnson.
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    The lack of a clear successor is what is keeping Boris in post currently, but once the May elections are out of the way, and especially if there are heavy losses, they may get around to looking for the assassin's knife. I am still of the view that Boris won't lead them into the next election.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    The lack of a clear successor is what is keeping Boris in post currently, but once the May elections are out of the way, and especially if there are heavy losses, they may get around to looking for the assassin's knife. I am still of the view that Boris won't lead them into the next election.

    Heavy losses and several more FPNs...
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720

    I wonder if the majority of people will think of Boris Johnson when casting their vote for their local Councillor? The opposition parties had better hope so as there are precious few positive reasons for voting for them.

    Did you see RP's comments yesterday about his local Tory local election candidate in Scotland? No mention of Mr J, none of the Tories either (I'm not sure if they were in the legal small print though). Similar transformation in my part from the nothing but Ruth Davidson Says No Surrender. It's all dog shite and potholes in blue. Bluekip pretending to be BlueLD.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Carnyx said:

    This comment in the thread by Mr Johnson J is also highly germane to Mr Johnson B:

    Overall, partygate dominates views of Boris over Ukraine.

    Fury has not receded. Many negative comments are by people who liked him previously but have now changed their minds.

    When Johnson first took power, only Labour voters would call him a liar. It is now widespread.

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1515936789055389701

    iirc an MP told the Times or Spectator, I forget which, that basically the back bench had rumbled him but their local tory constituency members still largely worshipped him, so no one wants to act as yet. They suspect that losing a ton of hard working councillors in their area may be what finally wakes them up.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720

    Carnyx said:

    This comment in the thread by Mr Johnson J is also highly germane to Mr Johnson B:

    Overall, partygate dominates views of Boris over Ukraine.

    Fury has not receded. Many negative comments are by people who liked him previously but have now changed their minds.

    When Johnson first took power, only Labour voters would call him a liar. It is now widespread.

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1515936789055389701

    iirc an MP told the Times or Spectator, I forget which, that basically the back bench had rumbled him but their local tory constituency members still largely worshipped him, so no one wants to act as yet. They suspect that losing a ton of hard working councillors in their area may be what finally wakes them up.
    Doesn't surprise me. I can't easily explain Mr Ross's atrociously embarrassing U-turn on Mr J unless his local constituency party had threatened him with the red card the next time the issue of selection of candidates come up.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,609
    edited April 2022
    Only about 35% of people bother to vote in local elections. It'll be interesting to see if they have the same views as what the opinion polls are showing, which I think are usually based on the much higher general election turnout of about 68%.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    I see one of the responses was "utter anus”.

    We'll put that down as a 'maybe' then?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720

    I see one of the responses was "utter anus”.

    We'll put that down as a 'maybe' then?

    Appropriately classical, mind. Someone with a sense of humour.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    RobD said:

    The lack of a clear successor is what is keeping Boris in post currently, but once the May elections are out of the way, and especially if there are heavy losses, they may get around to looking for the assassin's knife. I am still of the view that Boris won't lead them into the next election.

    Heavy losses and several more FPNs...
    If only someone had taken a photo of Johnson at the party table surrounded by booze bottles with his sweaty hands grasped around a pint glass shouting 'cheers all'...

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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612
    How is 'fit' in the word cloud?

    Unless someone said 'Not fit for office'.
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    Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    Andy_JS said:

    Only about 35% of people bother to vote in local elections. It'll be interesting to see if they have the same views as what the opinion polls are showing, which I think are usually based on the much higher general election turnout of about 68%.

    Local election turnout is higher in Scotland (47% in 2017) with 60%+ turnouts in affluent areas which I why I expect the Scottish Conservative vote to hold up better than expected and only suffer any significant seats damage on a few councils like Edinburgh.

    I can see an extremely low turnout in England overall like in 2012, maybe even 30%. Turnout in London might be better and I'm not assuming Barnet or even Wandsworth will be a slam dunk for Labour.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    RobD said:

    I wonder if the majority of people will think of Boris Johnson when casting their vote for their local Councillor? The opposition parties had better hope so as there are precious few positive reasons for voting for them.

    Evidence suggests that yes, people do use local elections to give the national government a kicking.
    I think that it is more differential turnout. Disillusioned supporters can't be bothered whilst angry opponents want to send a message. Of course given the low level of turnout at local elections anyway these factors can be enhanced. The Tories face a bloodbath unless the mood changes markedly.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    How deliciously ironic that all the Blair-haters used to refer to him as "B-Liar". Compared to Johnson, Blair looks like "Honest Tony"...

    I hope the Tories take a kicking, both for electing that toerag and for their spineless complicity in keeping him in No.10

    Blair lied about far more important stuff than Boris whose lies are often stupid and easily found out. But anyone who concluded that Blair was "a pretty straight kind of guy" is totally delusional. He simply wasn't.
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    My favourite bit from this polling

    “At first I really liked him and felt he would be good for the country, but now he has been in power he has been one of the worst prime ministers ever… he is so out of touch and has no idea how the majority of people live their lives.”

    “Utter anus”


    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1515936776556265475?s=21&t=TqBtqUarXkFyEiTF9Qy16A
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    DavidL said:

    How deliciously ironic that all the Blair-haters used to refer to him as "B-Liar". Compared to Johnson, Blair looks like "Honest Tony"...

    I hope the Tories take a kicking, both for electing that toerag and for their spineless complicity in keeping him in No.10

    Blair lied about far more important stuff than Boris whose lies are often stupid and easily found out. But anyone who concluded that Blair was "a pretty straight kind of guy" is totally delusional. He simply wasn't.
    I never liked Blair in the slightest, not did I trust him, but to pretend that Boris is in some way superior to Blair is simply...... oh wait! You are a Tory! I forgot :open_mouth:

    I presume "My party right or wrong..." applies here?
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    How is 'fit' in the word cloud?

    Unless someone said 'Not fit for office'.

    There is a lone "likeable" down at the bottom....
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    My favourite bit from this polling

    “At first I really liked him and felt he would be good for the country, but now he has been in power he has been one of the worst prime ministers ever… he is so out of touch and has no idea how the majority of people live their lives.”

    “Utter anus”


    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1515936776556265475?s=21&t=TqBtqUarXkFyEiTF9Qy16A

    Disappointed "wazzock" wasn't in there. Not sure the pollster really got to the Red Wall at all....
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    DavidL said:

    How deliciously ironic that all the Blair-haters used to refer to him as "B-Liar". Compared to Johnson, Blair looks like "Honest Tony"...

    I hope the Tories take a kicking, both for electing that toerag and for their spineless complicity in keeping him in No.10

    Blair lied about far more important stuff than Boris whose lies are often stupid and easily found out. But anyone who concluded that Blair was "a pretty straight kind of guy" is totally delusional. He simply wasn't.
    I never liked Blair in the slightest, not did I trust him, but to pretend that Boris is in some way superior to Blair is simply...... oh wait! You are a Tory! I forgot :open_mouth:

    I presume "My party right or wrong..." applies here?
    I didn't say that. You, on the other hand, said the opposite.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    RobD said:

    I wonder if the majority of people will think of Boris Johnson when casting their vote for their local Councillor? The opposition parties had better hope so as there are precious few positive reasons for voting for them.

    Evidence suggests that yes, people do use local elections to give the national government a kicking.
    I'm even looking forward to it. :)
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    How deliciously ironic that all the Blair-haters used to refer to him as "B-Liar". Compared to Johnson, Blair looks like "Honest Tony"...

    I hope the Tories take a kicking, both for electing that toerag and for their spineless complicity in keeping him in No.10

    Blair lied about far more important stuff than Boris whose lies are often stupid and easily found out. But anyone who concluded that Blair was "a pretty straight kind of guy" is totally delusional. He simply wasn't.
    I never liked Blair in the slightest, not did I trust him, but to pretend that Boris is in some way superior to Blair is simply...... oh wait! You are a Tory! I forgot :open_mouth:

    I presume "My party right or wrong..." applies here?
    I didn't say that. You, on the other hand, said the opposite.
    I did not say that Blair was "a pretty straight kind of guy"

    So now that we have got out all the denials of what we did not say, can we at least agree that Johnson is a carbuncle on the face of politics whose removal is long overdue?
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    Blair is the best PM of the last thirty years, at least he did good things.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735

    How is 'fit' in the word cloud?

    Unless someone said 'Not fit for office'.

    They must have asked a particular ex prolific PB poster. Just surprised that muscular is not on there too.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    How deliciously ironic that all the Blair-haters used to refer to him as "B-Liar". Compared to Johnson, Blair looks like "Honest Tony"...

    I hope the Tories take a kicking, both for electing that toerag and for their spineless complicity in keeping him in No.10

    Blair lied about far more important stuff than Boris whose lies are often stupid and easily found out. But anyone who concluded that Blair was "a pretty straight kind of guy" is totally delusional. He simply wasn't.
    I never liked Blair in the slightest, not did I trust him, but to pretend that Boris is in some way superior to Blair is simply...... oh wait! You are a Tory! I forgot :open_mouth:

    I presume "My party right or wrong..." applies here?
    I didn't say that. You, on the other hand, said the opposite.
    I did not say that Blair was "a pretty straight kind of guy"

    So now that we have got out all the denials of what we did not say, can we at least agree that Johnson is a carbuncle on the face of politics whose removal is long overdue?
    You called him "Honest Tony", which is what I took objection to. But yes, in my view Boris should have resigned or been removed for lying to Parliament. It was and is unacceptable.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    RobD said:

    I wonder if the majority of people will think of Boris Johnson when casting their vote for their local Councillor? The opposition parties had better hope so as there are precious few positive reasons for voting for them.

    Evidence suggests that yes, people do use local elections to give the national government a kicking.
    Indeed, it's often easier to give the government a kicking in the locals than at the General.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Andy_JS said:

    Only about 35% of people bother to vote in local elections. It'll be interesting to see if they have the same views as what the opinion polls are showing, which I think are usually based on the much higher general election turnout of about 68%.

    Yes: opponents of the government are usually more motivated to vote.

    And it's also easy to forget just how bad things can be for incumbent governments. The Conservatives ran precious free councils outright in 1996.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    I wonder if the majority of people will think of Boris Johnson when casting their vote for their local Councillor? The opposition parties had better hope so as there are precious few positive reasons for voting for them.

    Evidence suggests that yes, people do use local elections to give the national government a kicking.
    Indeed, it's often easier to give the government a kicking in the locals than at the General.
    But easiest of all was the EU elections! 😉
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Just for TSE: Wifey is spending her Easter Monday afternoon on a Zoom call with the the Hemsworth boys...
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    Blair is the best PM of the last thirty years, at least he did good things.

    Yes, just ask any Iraqi.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    edited April 2022

    Just for TSE: Wifey is spending her Easter Monday afternoon on a Zoom call with the the Hemsworth boys...

    I’ve met Chris, this was the sign around my then other half.



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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    Blair is the best PM of the last thirty years, at least he did good things.

    Extend thirty to forty, though, and Blair doesn't get a look in. Blair did stuff to try to stay liked, whilst getting things horribly wrong - Iraq, constitutional reform. Maggie did the really hard, transformational stuff where you did it regardless.

    If you could overlook Brexit, Cameron v Blair would be a decent match up. But...you can't overlook Brexit.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Anyway, the battery is about charged up, another lawn beckons....
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2022
    On top of Iraq, Blair had perfect economy conditions and a massive majority to enact real positive changes. What he achieved was underwhelmingly given that. Also remember that lots of things the large hospital and school building was all mortgaged on terrible PFI contracts, so that wasn't even been paid for out the current taxation and tied public sector into terrible deals.

    Has any recent PM got in under such conditions?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    edited April 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Only about 35% of people bother to vote in local elections. It'll be interesting to see if they have the same views as what the opinion polls are showing, which I think are usually based on the much higher general election turnout of about 68%.

    Yes: opponents of the government are usually more motivated to vote.

    And it's also easy to forget just how bad things can be for incumbent governments. The Conservatives ran precious free councils outright in 1996.
    Labour had a 14% lead in the 1996 local elections. However bad it gets for the Tories this year, I doubt it will get bad
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2022
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Only about 35% of people bother to vote in local elections. It'll be interesting to see if they have the same views as what the opinion polls are showing, which I think are usually based on the much higher general election turnout of about 68%.

    Yes: opponents of the government are usually more motivated to vote.

    And it's also easy to forget just how bad things can be for incumbent governments. The Conservatives ran precious free councils outright in 1996.
    Labour had a 14% lead in the 1996 local elections. However bad it gets for the Tories this year, I doubt it will get bad
    If inflation stays at the current levels for very long they will.
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    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited April 2022
    Con MPs have made their decision - They will go down with Boris’s ship.

    They’ve been in power too long and have become stale, lazy and out of ideas.

    While it’s foolish to predict a GE this far out, I think SKS will get a decent workable majority.

    Con MPs only have themselves to blame.
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    Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    mwadams said:

    Blair is the best PM of the last thirty years, at least he did good things.

    I hated Blair. I thought he was a twister and a bit of a con artist.

    But at no point did I doubt that he was basically trying to do his best for the country as a whole while also doing whatever he could to keep the Tories out of power. (Which frequently meant compromising Labour principles where electorally convenient; so not a "man of principle" - more of a pragmatist.)

    He also dissembled about his religious conviction which set off more alarm bells.

    On the other hand...

    Not for a second do I think the charlatans in the cabinet now are doing anything for the benefit of the country as a whole. Indeed they betray no evidence of understanding what that might even mean. It is a shame on all of us.
    I think Blair would have a better legacy despite Iraq if he'd stood down in 2005. He really debased himself in the past two years and what he's done after leaving office. I think it's bad that certain 'centrists' argue were not allowed to scrutinise/criticise not even for his immoral post PM behaviour which is in contrast to Brown.

    I'm hoping if Starmer becomes PM we will be able to criticise Blair in the same way SPD supporters and even senior electoral representatives are now allowed to attack Schröder.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    edited April 2022

    How is 'fit' in the word cloud?

    Unless someone said 'Not fit for office'.

    They must have asked a particular ex prolific PB poster. Just surprised that muscular is not on there too.
    Me too. All of Philip's work in vain. Pleased for his sake he retired before having to see this.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Ukraine War: Putin says sanctions have hurt Western countries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQjcxoGgg4
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,374
    One of the things against Jeremy Corbyn in 2019 was the feeling he was "not on our side"; that he was more interested in the plight of Palestinians and Venezuelans than the voter on the Clapham omnibus.

    Boris was "on our side". Until now. Partygate has shown Boris is on Boris's side. I'm not sure how he can get that back.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    Blair is the best PM of the last thirty years, at least he did good things.

    Extend thirty to forty, though, and Blair doesn't get a look in. Blair did stuff to try to stay liked, whilst getting things horribly wrong - Iraq, constitutional reform. Maggie did the really hard, transformational stuff where you did it regardless.

    If you could overlook Brexit, Cameron v Blair would be a decent match up. But...you can't overlook Brexit.
    So Cameron wins for you since he enabled the blessed Brexit?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,374

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Ukraine War: Putin says sanctions have hurt Western countries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQjcxoGgg4
    Putin is right. Sanctions have hurt Western countries.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien
    ·
    1h
    The interesting kicker in all this, is that this was, I think, one of the only ways to criticise Stalin’s rule from within the USSR. You would have to describe the horrible behaviours of other nations, when actually you meant the USSR itself.

    https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1516035988652535809
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    mwadams said:

    Blair is the best PM of the last thirty years, at least he did good things.

    I hated Blair. I thought he was a twister and a bit of a con artist.

    But at no point did I doubt that he was basically trying to do his best for the country as a whole while also doing whatever he could to keep the Tories out of power. (Which frequently meant compromising Labour principles where electorally convenient; so not a "man of principle" - more of a pragmatist.)

    He also dissembled about his religious conviction which set off more alarm bells.

    On the other hand...

    Not for a second do I think the charlatans in the cabinet now are doing anything for the benefit of the country as a whole. Indeed they betray no evidence of understanding what that might even mean. It is a shame on all of us.
    I'm cutting slack for 2019 because of Brexit and Jezza but it will reflect terribly on us if we don't correct things in 2024.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    Every day that Boris Johnson remains tarnishes his party and the office of the Prime-Minister.
    Removing him is not only the ethical thing for Conservative MPs to do.
    It is also profoundly in their long-term interest.


    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1516054899619991563
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Boris Johnson has been told his Downing Street office has been targeted with “multiple” suspected infections using Pegasus, the sophisticated hacking software made by Israel’s NSO group, which can turn your phone into a remote listening device, it was claimed on Monday.

    A report, released by Citizen Lab at the University of Toronto on Monday, said it believed that No 10 had fallen prey to a spyware attack in 2020 and 2021, with the United Arab Emirates being the suspected orchestrator.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/18/no-10-suspected-of-being-target-of-nso-spyware-attack-boris-johnson
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
    DavidL said:

    How deliciously ironic that all the Blair-haters used to refer to him as "B-Liar". Compared to Johnson, Blair looks like "Honest Tony"...

    I hope the Tories take a kicking, both for electing that toerag and for their spineless complicity in keeping him in No.10

    Blair lied about far more important stuff than Boris whose lies are often stupid and easily found out. But anyone who concluded that Blair was "a pretty straight kind of guy" is totally delusional. He simply wasn't.
    A lot straighter than Boris , even if a lying toerag
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited April 2022

    Boris Johnson has been told his Downing Street office has been targeted with “multiple” suspected infections using Pegasus, the sophisticated hacking software made by Israel’s NSO group, which can turn your phone into a remote listening device, it was claimed on Monday.

    Carrie getting suspicious?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2022
    Tony Blair is calling for 70 per cent of young people to go onto higher education to help tackle Britain’s productivity crisis.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-in-ten-teenagers-should-go-to-university-tony-blair-declares-wpqjb6j2x
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,418

    How deliciously ironic that all the Blair-haters used to refer to him as "B-Liar". Compared to Johnson, Blair looks like "Honest Tony"...

    I hope the Tories take a kicking, both for electing that toerag and for their spineless complicity in keeping him in No.10

    Tony Baloney is another one I heard from a man of Irish extraction. Then there was Phony Blair.
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    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    ping said:

    Con MPs have made their decision - They will go down with Boris’s ship.

    They’ve been in power too long and have become stale, lazy and out of ideas.

    While it’s foolish to predict a GE this far out, I think SKS will get a decent workable majority.

    Con MPs only have themselves to blame.

    I'm not confident that they have made that decision or that if they have then that they won't reverse it.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,418

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Ukraine War: Putin says sanctions have hurt Western countries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQjcxoGgg4
    Putin is right. Sanctions have hurt Western countries.
    I'm somewhat surprised that the notion is even a contentious one. We are hurting ourselves to hurt Putin's Russia. To what degree you believe that this is a good idea depends on your perspective.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    The Tories will do better than expected I think. Identity politics innit
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,418

    Tony Blair is calling for 70 per cent of young people to go onto higher education to help tackle Britain’s productivity crisis.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-in-ten-teenagers-should-go-to-university-tony-blair-declares-wpqjb6j2x

    This message was brought to you by someone making a mint from the student racket and paying Tony a fat consultancy fee.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,291
    edited April 2022
    Good afternoon

    I have been very busy and not posted much recently but I have this deep seated desire to see Boris leave office

    I prided myself when I ran my business of always seeking the highest standards of honesty and integrity, something that is an anathema to Boris and the idea he can appear in the HOC and explain away partygate is deeply disturbing, unless his speech concludes with his resignation

    I cannot start to imagine how his mps and local councillor candidates can face the public while he continues in office, and I hope they receive a catastrophic may election result

    His mps have to decide on their integrity and they will only uphold it by voting him out of office

    I am grateful that Boris got brexit done, but it is in urgent need of an overhaul with a much closer mutually beneficial agreement on defence, security and trade

    On the whole he managed covid reasonably and certainly opened the economy against Starmer, Sturgeon and Drakeford's wishes and at least mitigated some of the economic and social damage lockdowns cause

    He has also done well with Ukraine, but the idea he cannot be replaced is a nonsense as nobody is irreplaceable

    I have no fear if Starmer becomes PM, and ironically it would be more than interesting to watch just how he performs when he has to take hard decisions on many issues and most of all public sector pay
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,167

    How deliciously ironic that all the Blair-haters used to refer to him as "B-Liar". Compared to Johnson, Blair looks like "Honest Tony"...

    I hope the Tories take a kicking, both for electing that toerag and for their spineless complicity in keeping him in No.10

    Tony Baloney is another one I heard from a man of Irish extraction. Then there was Phony Blair.
    Tory B Liar was another, oh so funny, one.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,167

    The Tories will do better than expected I think. Identity politics innit

    That all depends against whose level of expectations it is set against.

    As always there is expectations management that goes on.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Tony Blair still driving the far right mad, 15 years after leaving office.
  • Options
    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    I voted Labour and campaigned for Labour during Blair's leadership having been a long-time party member albeit with evolving beliefs.

    I thought Blair a brilliant politician but rationally I could see that things were going to end in tears. I thought he was American style cheesy (rolled up sleeves party speeches). The Fall was signalled early - Bernie Ecclestone. New Labour gave us an optimistic time even thought there was an underlying strand of authoritarianism closer a times to a benign(-ish) corporate state.

    Blair overdosed on hubris so doctoring dossiers to prove what he knew to be true was no sin in his own eyes. He was a strategic liar. Boris in contrast is an opportunist who fibs frequently almost from habit and has slipped ever upwards till meeting his nemesis, he is a tactical liar.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Zanu-new-lie-bore!!!!
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Alistair said:

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Thank goodness he is speaking out against woke cancel culture.
    Have Karaganov and Leon been seen in the same room?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Farooq said:

    Tony Blair still driving the far right mad, 15 years after leaving office.

    Nothing compared to what he does to the Left!
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited April 2022
    Alistair said:

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Thank goodness he is speaking out against woke cancel culture.
    Lol

    I’ve noticed the anti-woke brigade have dialled down their outrage recently.

    It’s all a bit awkward for them.

    Perhaps our free, liberal, open and tolerant society isn’t that bad? And that chicks with dicks don’t lead to the downfall of civilisation, after all?
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140

    Farooq said:

    Tony Blair still driving the far right mad, 15 years after leaving office.

    Nothing compared to what he does to the Left!
    The centrists are also quite livid. It's a heady brew.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Tony Blair still driving the far right mad, 15 years after leaving office.

    Nothing compared to what he does to the Left!
    Them too. Delicious.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140
    Alistair said:

    Zanu-new-lie-bore!!!!

    Oh, god, I had forgotten how tedious all that was. And I hated the man.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140
    Alistair said:

    Zanu-new-lie-bore!!!!

    And it was often spelled "nu" just for added dickery.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140
    ydoethur said:

    Boris Johnson has been told his Downing Street office has been targeted with “multiple” suspected infections using Pegasus, the sophisticated hacking software made by Israel’s NSO group, which can turn your phone into a remote listening device, it was claimed on Monday.

    Carrie getting suspicious?
    Or did Boris just leave his phone on after a call to Naftali Bennett?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    edited April 2022

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Ukraine War: Putin says sanctions have hurt Western countries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQjcxoGgg4
    Yes, of course they’ve hurt Western countries. Weaning your continent off Russian gas and oil is going to be difficult, but it still needs to be done.

    But they’ve really f****d Russia, hard and with no lube.

    Anecdotal evidence - the Russian aunts of my wife, who a month ago were asking about the Nazis in Ukraine, are now slowly coming around to the idea that they might be the bad guys in all of this. The sanctions are starting to be noticed outside the major metro areas, into the towns where Putinism has ruled for two decades.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    @dpatrikarakos
    #Ukraine security expert tells me of a recent convo with an Italian journo.

    Italian: “So, to make peace with #Russia, what will you give them?”
    UA: “What do you mean?”
    Italian: “Well, you’ll have to give them territory of course!”
    UA: “Hmmm, yes, ok. We’ll give them Lake Como.”


    https://twitter.com/dpatrikarakos/status/1516021964414271494

    The chances of such a deal working Veniced when Putin invaded. Who would trust him now? He really is Hitler after the annexation of Czechoslovakia.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,167
    Alistair said:

    Zanu-new-lie-bore!!!!

    I’d forgotten that one 😂😂😂😂
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,418

    @dpatrikarakos
    #Ukraine security expert tells me of a recent convo with an Italian journo.

    Italian: “So, to make peace with #Russia, what will you give them?”
    UA: “What do you mean?”
    Italian: “Well, you’ll have to give them territory of course!”
    UA: “Hmmm, yes, ok. We’ll give them Lake Como.”


    https://twitter.com/dpatrikarakos/status/1516021964414271494

    I think he'll find they probably already own most of that.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Sandpit said:

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Ukraine War: Putin says sanctions have hurt Western countries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQjcxoGgg4
    Yes, of course they’ve hurt Western countries. Weaning your continent off Russian gas and oil is going to be difficult, but it still needs to be done.

    But they’ve really f****d Russia, hard and with no lube.

    Anecdotal evidence - the Russian aunts of my wife, who a month ago were asking about the Nazis in Ukraine, are now slowly coming around to the idea that they might be the bad guys in all of this. The sanctions are starting to be noticed outside the major metro areas, into the towns where Putinism has ruled for two decades.
    'Are we the Baddies?'
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,167

    How deliciously ironic that all the Blair-haters used to refer to him as "B-Liar". Compared to Johnson, Blair looks like "Honest Tony"...

    I hope the Tories take a kicking, both for electing that toerag and for their spineless complicity in keeping him in No.10

    Tony Baloney is another one I heard from a man of Irish extraction. Then there was Phony Blair.
    Tony baloney stole a pony.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    Sandpit said:

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Ukraine War: Putin says sanctions have hurt Western countries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQjcxoGgg4
    Yes, of course they’ve hurt Western countries. Weaning your continent off Russian gas and oil is going to be difficult, but it still needs to be done.

    But they’ve really f****d Russia, hard and with no lube.

    Anecdotal evidence - the Russian aunts of my wife, who a month ago were asking about the Nazis in Ukraine, are now slowly coming around to the idea that they might be the bad guys in all of this. The sanctions are starting to be noticed outside the major metro areas, into the towns where Putinism has ruled for two decades.
    'Are we the Baddies?'
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
    Without even clicking on it, I know that’s the Mitchell and Webb sketch about the Nazis fighting the… Russians.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140
    DavidL said:

    Tony Blair is calling for 70 per cent of young people to go onto higher education to help tackle Britain’s productivity crisis.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-in-ten-teenagers-should-go-to-university-tony-blair-declares-wpqjb6j2x

    I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?

    He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
    Is it the classic problem of aging politicians - fighting the last war, doubling down on policies they had then that haven't quite worked out how they'd hoped... One more push...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    DavidL said:

    Tony Blair is calling for 70 per cent of young people to go onto higher education to help tackle Britain’s productivity crisis.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-in-ten-teenagers-should-go-to-university-tony-blair-declares-wpqjb6j2x

    I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?

    He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
    Blair is diametrically wrong, again. The last thing the country should be doing, is encouraging more young people to get £50k into debt studying something worthless.

    If I had an 18 year old, I’d be either telling them to learn a trade, or to get a white-collar apprenticeship that might result in a sponsored degree a few years down the line.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    DavidL said:

    Tony Blair is calling for 70 per cent of young people to go onto higher education to help tackle Britain’s productivity crisis.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-in-ten-teenagers-should-go-to-university-tony-blair-declares-wpqjb6j2x

    I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?

    He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
    Higher education is not necessarily a university (I know, I know, what happened to the polys). Is Mr Blair including practical trade and tech courses, apprenticeships, etc. in HE? I can't read the article. But the headline conflicts with the visible text.
  • Options
    UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 781

    mwadams said:

    Blair is the best PM of the last thirty years, at least he did good things.

    I hated Blair. I thought he was a twister and a bit of a con artist.

    But at no point did I doubt that he was basically trying to do his best for the country as a whole while also doing whatever he could to keep the Tories out of power. (Which frequently meant compromising Labour principles where electorally convenient; so not a "man of principle" - more of a pragmatist.)

    He also dissembled about his religious conviction which set off more alarm bells.

    On the other hand...

    Not for a second do I think the charlatans in the cabinet now are doing anything for the benefit of the country as a whole. Indeed they betray no evidence of understanding what that might even mean. It is a shame on all of us.
    I think Blair would have a better legacy despite Iraq if he'd stood down in 2005. He really debased himself in the past two years and what he's done after leaving office. I think it's bad that certain 'centrists' argue were not allowed to scrutinise/criticise not even for his immoral post PM behaviour which is in contrast to Brown.

    I'm hoping if Starmer becomes PM we will be able to criticise Blair in the same way SPD supporters and even senior electoral representatives are now allowed to attack Schröder.
    Am I misreading this? Surely the starting point in a discussion about Blair is the presumption that most people hate him and he is electorally toxic. He's surely the most unpopular living PM. My experience is that even those who think he has great political gifts would rather he exercise them in secret. Indeed, many would discount what he has to say simply because of the man saying it.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Tony Blair is calling for 70 per cent of young people to go onto higher education to help tackle Britain’s productivity crisis.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-in-ten-teenagers-should-go-to-university-tony-blair-declares-wpqjb6j2x

    I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?

    He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
    Higher education is not necessarily a university (I know, I know, what happened to the polys). Is Mr Blair including practical trade and tech courses, apprenticeships, etc. in HE? I can't read the article. But the headline conflicts with the visible text.
    I can't either. But he still seems to believe that attending some bog standard University and "learning" a subject with little practical benefit for 3 or more years at great personal cost acttually improves your transferrable skills. I don't.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Boy, he's really keen to assert his lack of homosexuality.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
    ping said:

    Alistair said:

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Thank goodness he is speaking out against woke cancel culture.
    Lol

    I’ve noticed the anti-woke brigade have dialled down their outrage recently.

    It’s all a bit awkward for them.

    Perhaps our free, liberal, open and tolerant society isn’t that bad? And that chicks with dicks don’t lead to the downfall of civilisation, after all?
    Ping, you are having a laugh, we are in a helluva state just now , with fcukwits everywhere and loonies running the asylum. UK at present is a banana republic.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    DavidL said:

    Tony Blair is calling for 70 per cent of young people to go onto higher education to help tackle Britain’s productivity crisis.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-in-ten-teenagers-should-go-to-university-tony-blair-declares-wpqjb6j2x

    I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?

    He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
    Will be interesting to see what he counts as higher education. It would make zero sense if he means traditional 3-4 year degrees, could be interesting if it is a mix of much shorter courses and ongoing lifetime training.

    I would think 35-45% going to traditional degrees and another 25-35% doing further learning post 18, a mix of apprenticeships, part time or intensive courses over months rather than years, would be a good balance for the country.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    malcolmg said:

    ping said:

    Alistair said:

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Thank goodness he is speaking out against woke cancel culture.
    Lol

    I’ve noticed the anti-woke brigade have dialled down their outrage recently.

    It’s all a bit awkward for them.

    Perhaps our free, liberal, open and tolerant society isn’t that bad? And that chicks with dicks don’t lead to the downfall of civilisation, after all?
    Ping, you are having a laugh, we are in a helluva state just now , with fcukwits everywhere and loonies running the asylum. UK at present is a banana republic.
    Banana Kingdom!
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140
    Unpopular said:

    mwadams said:

    Blair is the best PM of the last thirty years, at least he did good things.

    I hated Blair. I thought he was a twister and a bit of a con artist.

    But at no point did I doubt that he was basically trying to do his best for the country as a whole while also doing whatever he could to keep the Tories out of power. (Which frequently meant compromising Labour principles where electorally convenient; so not a "man of principle" - more of a pragmatist.)

    He also dissembled about his religious conviction which set off more alarm bells.

    On the other hand...

    Not for a second do I think the charlatans in the cabinet now are doing anything for the benefit of the country as a whole. Indeed they betray no evidence of understanding what that might even mean. It is a shame on all of us.
    I think Blair would have a better legacy despite Iraq if he'd stood down in 2005. He really debased himself in the past two years and what he's done after leaving office. I think it's bad that certain 'centrists' argue were not allowed to scrutinise/criticise not even for his immoral post PM behaviour which is in contrast to Brown.

    I'm hoping if Starmer becomes PM we will be able to criticise Blair in the same way SPD supporters and even senior electoral representatives are now allowed to attack Schröder.
    Am I misreading this? Surely the starting point in a discussion about Blair is the presumption that most people hate him and he is electorally toxic. He's surely the most unpopular living PM. My experience is that even those who think he has great political gifts would rather he exercise them in secret. Indeed, many would discount what he has to say simply because of the man saying it.
    I think the problem is that lots of people *really* hated the Tories in 1997 and saw Blair as young, charismatic and a canvas on which they could project their hopes and dreams.

    This was supported by the massive debt/house-price maintained economic bubble.

    The unspoken secret was that, although massively outpolling the hated Tories, Labour still weren't attracting historically large numbers of votes for their historically large victories.

    So in retrospect, the disappointment, decay, and disillusionment were deeper and faster than you'd have expected for such a very successful politician.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    DavidL said:

    Tony Blair is calling for 70 per cent of young people to go onto higher education to help tackle Britain’s productivity crisis.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-in-ten-teenagers-should-go-to-university-tony-blair-declares-wpqjb6j2x

    I'm trying to think this through. He presumably thinks too many people are currently in the workforce to allow higher productivity. If we exclude most young people from the workforce those still left in it will have to work harder and be more productive?

    He surely cannot believe that tertiary education does anything much for our productivity outside STEM and the professions? Surely that theory has been tested to death by now.
    ‘Tested to death’ sounds like children going through the current exam system after Cummings had finished with it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    Utterly deluded and bonkers...



    Sergey Radchenko
    @DrRadchenko
    New article from Karaganov. Synopsis: The West is falling apart. We should cannibalise Ukraine. Nuclear war is definitely a possibility. Europe is doomed. We'll build a new world, together with China and India. We are heterosexuals. https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/protiv-nas-bolshoj-zapad/.

    https://twitter.com/DrRadchenko/status/1516000270592970755

    Ukraine War: Putin says sanctions have hurt Western countries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQjcxoGgg4
    Putin is right. Sanctions have hurt Western countries.
    I'm somewhat surprised that the notion is even a contentious one. We are hurting ourselves to hurt Putin's Russia. To what degree you believe that this is a good idea depends on your perspective.
    A surprising number of politicians in the West can pretend they can oppose Russia without any pain (those outside the West don't care one way or another it seems). Whether that is because they personally do not think any pain should be accepted, or because they think their voting public won't accept any pain in reality (versus in theory), I am less clear on.
This discussion has been closed.