Have collected a curry from a local to my MIL's takeaway. They have done a big mail out of their menu with a money off voucher. For cash only transactions.
I was a wee bit suspicious. When collecting (and paying by card) the guy was quite happy to tell me why the discount is cash only.
Because if it's a card payment and they give the discount there isn't much left after they pay VAT. So they're not paying VAT on cash orders. Which means they're not putting them through the books. Not paying Corporation Tax.
Dumb bastards really shouldn't be telling their customers that, they have no idea who might want to shop them for tax evasion...
Shop them in. I'd do it.
Too bloody right I will
No bleeding heart liberal, I, however is it worth considering, instead of dobbing them in you send an anonymous note outlining what they are doing, it’s illegality and “imorality” and point out that they don’t know who you are and you will be sending in friends to check if they are still trying this on?
Give them a chance to stop rather than potential consequences to owner’s family, the local community etc?
I’m having an evening of trying to be nice so thought I would suggest it!
The fact that they've cooked up a ruse to get more cash and fewer card payments means they already know what they're doing is illegal. And immorality doesn't really need the quotes. It's definitely wrong. They're pocketing the cash whilst you pay your taxes, so it's you they're stealing off. Fuck em.
If the voucher says on its face "discount for cash only" just send a copy without explanation or covering letter to the local inspector of taxes. If they can't tell by looking at it what is going on they don't deserve the scalp anyway. I'd be wary of personal involvement on the basis of proximity to your MiL and the danger of the connection being made.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
Oh god this is terrible. I thought cuts were only meant to affect hoi polloi. I had no idea the elites could be affected.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
Oh god this is terrible. I thought cuts were only meant to affect hoi polloi. I had no idea the elites could be affected.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
Oh god this is terrible. I thought cuts were only meant to affect hoi polloi. I had no idea the elites could be affected.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
Oh god this is terrible. I thought cuts were only meant to affect hoi polloi. I had no idea the elites could be affected.
This isn’t a cut. It is a completely stupid, self defeating tax increase driven be envy and spite which will result in more kids going to state schools at additional cost to the public purse.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
When we had more grammar schools everyone had the chance of that ticket, regardless of parental income, if they were bright enough
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Are you suggesting that the professional elite are just not ferry good?
My first encounter with Winchester was when I was at school. At the age of about 12 or 13 I was reasonably good at chess, but when I got to public school there was no tradition of playing chess, and few of the boys played much. Then one of the masters decided he'd start a chess club, so a few of us met for a few times and played each other. The standard was not very high!
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
One or two polling snippets tonight - the latest Forsa poll in Germany has re-established the SPD lead of three points (27-24) over the Union. Both parties little changed since the election but the Greens are up four since last September and are now on 19% in a strong third. The FDP have fallen back three points and now trail Alternative.
The three parties in the governing coalition are on 54%, up two from the last election.
The Ipsos-Sopra Steria poll is encouraging for Macron - he has a healthy six and a half point lead over Le Pen but wins the hypothetical match up 54-46 and beats Melenchon 59-41.
Other polls show a much tighter race with Macron ahead 27-23.
Closer to home, we have that rarity - a poll from Northern Ireland. The numbers (with changes on Dec 2019):
Sinn Fein: 27.0% (-0.9) Democratic Unionist:: 20.2% (-7.9) Alliance Party: 14.6% (+5.5) Ulster Unionist: 13.5% (+0.6) Social Democratic & Labour Party: 10.3% (-1.6) Traditional Unionist Voice: 5.4% (+2.8) Green Party Northern Ireland: 4.3% (+2.0) People Before Profit: 2.1% (+0.3) Conservative Party: 0.9% (+0.6) It's Time for Common Sense (Aontu): 0.3% (new)
On those numbers, the Alliance wins Belfast East and is close in Lagan Valley while the UUP take South Antrim.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
'aint gonna be any kind of peace deal any time soon...
Deborah Haynes @haynesdeborah · 1h Asked by @SkyNews how Ukraine could negotiate with Russia's Vladimir Putin given the atrocities allegedly committed by his forces, the Ukrainian interior minister said, speaking in English: “Go to hell.”
At some point there will have to be a peace deal with the difference between now and that some point being measured in deaths. I would not like to be the politician that has to determine when that time has arrived.
Yeah it's all jolly sending weapons but they essentially kill people and prolong things
It has been the paradigm of eg civil wars throughout history. At some point someone will win. Until that time then the deaths will mount up. As I said not a decision I would like to be in a position to make. And yes also historically arming the protagonists has extended the war.
It is not a civil war.
No indeed. I said eg civil wars. But this war has to end at some point. Will it be when Putin says it will end in which case Zelensky has no decision to make; or will it end when Zelensky decides to see if peace can be achieved by negotiation.
@williamglenn says the former; I am not sure which it is. If it is the latter then Zelensky has a decision to make.
Peace can only be achieved if and when Russia withdraws. Otherwise it's just a pause.
Zelensky has made clear Ukraine's bottom line; there can be no negotiation over territory with such an invader. I don't see how he can do any different, since accepting the occupation of captured territory would be abandoning his citizens to the sort of brutality witnessed in occupied Donbas over the last decade - and occupied towns over the last month.
The example of a civil war is an exceedingly poor one.
Europe still has the chops when it comes to being utter arseholes. Ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, now Ukraine.
I'm reminded of Randy Newman's Great Nations of Europe: of how we took our ability to be arseholes worldwide.
The great nations of Europe Had gathered on the shore They'd conquered what was behind them And now they wanted more
So they looked to the mighty ocean And took to the western sea The great nations of Europe in the sixteenth century Hide your wives and daughters Hide your groceries too Great nations of Europe coming through
The Grand Canary Islands First land to which they came They slaughtered all the canaries Which gave the land its name There were natives there called Guanches Guanches by the score Bullets, disease, the Portuguese, and they weren't there anymore Now they're gone, they're gone, they're really gone You've never seen anyone so gone They're a picture in a museum Some lines written in a book But you won't find a live one no matter where you look
Hide your wives and daughters Hide your groceries too Great nations of Europe coming through
Columbus sailed for India Found Salvador instead He shook hands with some Indians and soon they all were dead They got TB and typhoid and athlete's foot Diphtheria and the flu Excuse me great nations coming through!
Balboa found the Pacific And on the trail one day He met some friendly Indians Whom he was told were gay So he had them torn apart by dogs on religious grounds they say The great nations of Europe were quite holy in their way Now they're gone, they're gone, they're really gone You've never seen anyone so gone Some bones hidden in the canyon Some paintings in a cave There's no use trying to save them There's nothing left to save
Hide your wives and daughters Hide your sons as well With the great nations of Europe you never can tell
Remember when Rishi was the greatest thing since sliced bread, I remember how good @Big_G_NorthWales thought he was. Poor judgment.
I remember when I was criticised for repeatedly belittling Rishi Sunak.
Belitting = anti-shorty hate speech
BTW, 4th US President and leading light of US Constitution was 5'4". He was targeted by British "heightists" to such an extent, that they burned down his home!
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
One of the younger members of my extended family apparently got a very good grade in A level English literature without reading a single, complete book!!
Whole thing seemed to be about various snippets and bite-size portions of various works.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
History, Economics, Politics, Maths. Take your pick.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
One of the younger members of my extended family apparently got a very good grade in A level English literature without reading a single, complete book!!
Whole thing seemed to be about various snippets and bite-size portions of various works.
You all know my opinion of the current a-level and GCSE qualifications, so I won't bother labouring them in detail. Briefly, I think the issue with Leon's daughter is that they are so overstuffed with very precisely prescribed content that it's almost impossible to ever deviate from the script. If your case study for oil production is Nigeria, you teach Nigeria. While it might be useful intellectually to compare it to Iran, Venezuela or the USA, that isn't necessary for the exam so you move on rapidly to the next topic.
I personally find that incredibly tedious and unhelpful for everyone. But what do I know? I'm only a professional historian who's lectured in several unis, published multiple reference works and been a secondary school teacher for a decade. My opinion is obviously less important than that of the civil servants who overruled all expert advice to set the exams.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Are you suggesting that the professional elite are just not ferry good?
In 2017 first round vote Mélenchon took 37% of the Muslim vote followed by Macron on 24%.
It was a case of anybody but Le Pen.
In 2022 the second round was a foregone conclusion , this time not so .
This is likely to see the abstention rate fall as we head towards Election Day especially in the Muslim community who make up a crucial 8% of the population .
Pécresses voters currently break 65 to 35 towards Macron . What’s left of her vote is more centre right , the far right parties have already hovered up the more far right voters who jumped ship .
As in the UK older voters are more likely to turnout and Macron is winning this by a huge majority in the second round .
Le Pen can win but the current polling is over inflating her popularity in the second round . And she needs a perfect storm of events to deliver that .
People look at the polling and think Melenchon is out of it because it shows Macron beats him more easily in second round. I would caution against that. If he makes top two he will be looked at again and differently by a lot of voters, not least because he is a better campaigner and debater than Le pen and will slice and dice Macron in debates. And in your post, he retains the ethnic vote, thats harder to transfer to Le pen to keep out the clutches of Macron. I still think this is fluid enough, long enough to go, and so many previous first rounds thrown up surprises for Melenchon to sneak into last two. And once there present Macron a more dangerous opponent, one who brings the left and ethnic votes, in theory could attract the anti establishment anti EU votes of Zemmour and Le pen, and the protestors against Macrons pension and tax policies.
I'm always surprised that Le Pen doesn't get more of the Melenchon vote, because economically, he is very similar to her.
By contrast, Macron and Pecresse have almost identical economic policies, and they both supported pension and labour market reform.
So I find the idea that the Pecresse block is going sharply Le Pen in the second round slightly odd; I could see Melenchon's vote moving much more easily.
You can think of it a bit like the Red Wall seats and Labour. Economic antipathy towards the Tories fell and the more conservative social attitudes combined to help them in 2019.
You are right economically Le Pen is closer to Mélenchon but socially worlds apart and this will act as a block on vote transfers towards her in the second round .
Exactly. The idea that economic policy is all-important is itself a political opinion and is certainly not shared by all.
There is something I think the site (and looking at the header, the punters) are missing. It’s being taken as fact How you voted before is how you vote this time, not how millions of Macron voters can have changed their minds. There’s no way, having given Wilson’s lefty Labour Labour a 80 seat majority the voters can give Heaths very different EU lovers a 60 seat majority just 4 years later - it’s a myth people can on mass endorse one thing and large numbers of those change their minds to a very different opponent in just 5 years?
It’s 100% tribal? The macron tribe is about as big as the Rishi Sunake tribe.
MoonRabbit is a ramper? I 100% would not vote for Melenchon, Le Pen or Zemmour. But then, I’m not French 🤷♀️
Maybe you are letting what you want cloud how poorly Macron has set himself up for re-election. Macron is actually a poor strategic politician at building positive support for himself, necessary to win series of elections. I have given many reasons why he lost (this time) but this is chief among them.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
I got an A* in Geography GCSE I will have you know.
The Norman Conquest should be studied in Key Stage 2 I believe, ie ages 7-11
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Where did Battle of Hastings take place, exactly? Believe it's still an open question!
"Battle of Hastings took place somewhere near Hastings, Kent. Bunch of obnoxious foreigners invaded, conquered and despoiled Britain. Until Brexit that is."
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
One of the younger members of my extended family apparently got a very good grade in A level English literature without reading a single, complete book!!
Whole thing seemed to be about various snippets and bite-size portions of various works.
When everything is about metrics then the metrics are gamed. I've always thought we select for the best exam takers and they are not always the best candidates.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
I got an A* in Geography GCSE I will have you know.
The Norman Conquest should be studied in Key Stage 2 I believe, ie ages 7-11
Memo to massively wealthy Tory politicians, don’t give MORE money to already wildly wealthy and super elitist public schools
I’d give similar advice to Labour politicians of questionable patriotism: don’t support the IRA and hang out with Hamas
Nah, it's very easy to defend - "I had a brillliant education at Winchester and I've been donating to a scholarship fund to enable kids who weren't as fortunate as I was when growing up to enable them to get the same benefits I had and with our education plan we will ensure that all kids get the same kind of excellent education I was able to receive"
It doesn't need more than one line.
Lol. A totally garbled, implausible line as you try to fit so much bollocks into one line
But it works because it's aspirational. The Tories are supposed to be the party of aspiration, not holding grudges against rich people.
Winchester College. Rrright.
Next he should give £30 million to the Duke of Westminster so he can lower rents on the Grosvenor Estate for his poorer tenants
The kids his money helped go to Winchester won't care and again, aspiration is what the Tory party are supposed to be in favour. I don't think this really hurts very much at all if they can frame it correctly. If this is an attack by team Boris they may have misjudged the party, which isn't surprising because Boris doesn't really get it.
Who actually gets these scholarships though? Is it ever a rat-catcher's spawn in hobnail boots and odd socks, or someone who would have traditionally forked out the fees had his ancestor not had to flog off the old manor house for Death Duties in 1965?
"Boys who are outstanding academically, who have been educated in the UK state system at primary level and who need financial assistance to attend Eton can be considered for the New Foundation Scholarship. Thanks to the generosity of a donor, this award provides means-tested financial support for up to four boys per year to attend Eton. These boys are identified by the school during the Admissions process. Where necessary, the scholarship will cover 100% fees and extras. We will help families identify the most appropriate pathway for their sons in Years 7 and 8. Boys should be registered in the normal way for 13+ entry by 30 June in UK school Year 5: please contact the Admissions Office if you have any queries."
'Up to' four boys a year! That's going to give underprivilege a good whacking, isn't it? Levelling up, indeed.
Loving your eyepopping claim that you don't get sex, drink or drugs in state schools, but it does rather torpedo your credibility on the subject of education.
Pupils at state schools tend to do it extramurally ... not being at boarding schools.
Rishi's star falls further as he donates £100, 000 to Winchester School
He has astonished me and Boris needs to move him on
So out of touch
"The donations fund bursaries for children whose parents would not otherwise be able to send them there."
I would have thought as a Conservative leaning voter you would be board with rich people donating so those fortunate can have access to top level education?
From my side of the political divide, a Chancellor properly funding a state system benefitting all children, rather than a private tax dodging bursary for one or two social climbers would be more appropriate.
My first encounter with Winchester was when I was at school. At the age of about 12 or 13 I was reasonably good at chess, but when I got to public school there was no tradition of playing chess, and few of the boys played much. Then one of the masters decided he'd start a chess club, so a few of us met for a few times and played each other. The standard was not very high!
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
Two of the candidates from the recent Apprentice series:- A: I used to play chess for my county B: I'm good at chess too A: What's your favourite opening? B: Never mind
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Where did Battle of Hastings take place, exactly? Believe it's still an open question!
"Battle of Hastings took place somewhere near Hastings, Kent. Bunch of obnoxious foreigners invaded, conquered and despoiled Britain. Until Brexit that is."
It was at Battle wasn't it? Cunning plan of Fat William to invade at the obvious named place
Memo to massively wealthy Tory politicians, don’t give MORE money to already wildly wealthy and super elitist public schools
I’d give similar advice to Labour politicians of questionable patriotism: don’t support the IRA and hang out with Hamas
Nah, it's very easy to defend - "I had a brillliant education at Winchester and I've been donating to a scholarship fund to enable kids who weren't as fortunate as I was when growing up to enable them to get the same benefits I had and with our education plan we will ensure that all kids get the same kind of excellent education I was able to receive"
It doesn't need more than one line.
Lol. A totally garbled, implausible line as you try to fit so much bollocks into one line
But it works because it's aspirational. The Tories are supposed to be the party of aspiration, not holding grudges against rich people.
Winchester College. Rrright.
Next he should give £30 million to the Duke of Westminster so he can lower rents on the Grosvenor Estate for his poorer tenants
The kids his money helped go to Winchester won't care and again, aspiration is what the Tory party are supposed to be in favour. I don't think this really hurts very much at all if they can frame it correctly. If this is an attack by team Boris they may have misjudged the party, which isn't surprising because Boris doesn't really get it.
Who actually gets these scholarships though? Is it ever a rat-catcher's spawn in hobnail boots and odd socks, or someone who would have traditionally forked out the fees had his ancestor not had to flog off the old manor house for Death Duties in 1965?
"Boys who are outstanding academically, who have been educated in the UK state system at primary level and who need financial assistance to attend Eton can be considered for the New Foundation Scholarship. Thanks to the generosity of a donor, this award provides means-tested financial support for up to four boys per year to attend Eton. These boys are identified by the school during the Admissions process. Where necessary, the scholarship will cover 100% fees and extras. We will help families identify the most appropriate pathway for their sons in Years 7 and 8. Boys should be registered in the normal way for 13+ entry by 30 June in UK school Year 5: please contact the Admissions Office if you have any queries."
'Up to' four boys a year! That's going to give underprivilege a good whacking, isn't it? Levelling up, indeed.
Loving your eyepopping claim that you don't get sex, drink or drugs in state schools, but it does rather torpedo your credibility on the subject of education.
Pupils at state schools tend to do it extramurally ... not being at boarding schools.
There are state boarding schools.
Addam's Grammar (of Mr Corbyn fame) being one of the most famous. But I think I'm right in saying there's one in Burford and one Keswick as well.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
He'd do poll-driven teaching. "If 67.6% of people say that Iran is south of the Caspian Sea and 20.5% of people say it's in Africa, what are the chances that it borders Brazil?"
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Where did Battle of Hastings take place, exactly? Believe it's still an open question!
"Battle of Hastings took place somewhere near Hastings, Kent. Bunch of obnoxious foreigners invaded, conquered and despoiled Britain. Until Brexit that is."
According to tradition - which I have never seen seriously challenged - it took place on Senlac Hill, and the altar of Battle Abbey which was founded within the lifetime of Odo of Bayeux was placed on the spot where Harold's body was found.
Memo to massively wealthy Tory politicians, don’t give MORE money to already wildly wealthy and super elitist public schools
I’d give similar advice to Labour politicians of questionable patriotism: don’t support the IRA and hang out with Hamas
Nah, it's very easy to defend - "I had a brillliant education at Winchester and I've been donating to a scholarship fund to enable kids who weren't as fortunate as I was when growing up to enable them to get the same benefits I had and with our education plan we will ensure that all kids get the same kind of excellent education I was able to receive"
It doesn't need more than one line.
Lol. A totally garbled, implausible line as you try to fit so much bollocks into one line
But it works because it's aspirational. The Tories are supposed to be the party of aspiration, not holding grudges against rich people.
Winchester College. Rrright.
Next he should give £30 million to the Duke of Westminster so he can lower rents on the Grosvenor Estate for his poorer tenants
The kids his money helped go to Winchester won't care and again, aspiration is what the Tory party are supposed to be in favour. I don't think this really hurts very much at all if they can frame it correctly. If this is an attack by team Boris they may have misjudged the party, which isn't surprising because Boris doesn't really get it.
Who actually gets these scholarships though? Is it ever a rat-catcher's spawn in hobnail boots and odd socks, or someone who would have traditionally forked out the fees had his ancestor not had to flog off the old manor house for Death Duties in 1965?
"Boys who are outstanding academically, who have been educated in the UK state system at primary level and who need financial assistance to attend Eton can be considered for the New Foundation Scholarship. Thanks to the generosity of a donor, this award provides means-tested financial support for up to four boys per year to attend Eton. These boys are identified by the school during the Admissions process. Where necessary, the scholarship will cover 100% fees and extras. We will help families identify the most appropriate pathway for their sons in Years 7 and 8. Boys should be registered in the normal way for 13+ entry by 30 June in UK school Year 5: please contact the Admissions Office if you have any queries."
'Up to' four boys a year! That's going to give underprivilege a good whacking, isn't it? Levelling up, indeed.
Loving your eyepopping claim that you don't get sex, drink or drugs in state schools, but it does rather torpedo your credibility on the subject of education.
Pupils at state schools tend to do it extramurally ... not being at boarding schools.
There are state boarding schools.
Quite right, which is one reason I said 'tend to' - but I should have been clearer.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
He'd do poll-driven teaching. "If 67.6% of people say that Iran is south of the Caspian Sea and 20.5% of people say it's in Africa, what are the chances that it borders Brazil?"
Which would be considerably more logical and better thought out than much of the bullshit in the current National Curriculum.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Closer to home, we have that rarity - a poll from Northern Ireland. The numbers (with changes on Dec 2019):
Sinn Fein: 27.0% (-0.9) Democratic Unionist:: 20.2% (-7.9) Alliance Party: 14.6% (+5.5) Ulster Unionist: 13.5% (+0.6) Social Democratic & Labour Party: 10.3% (-1.6) Traditional Unionist Voice: 5.4% (+2.8) Green Party Northern Ireland: 4.3% (+2.0) People Before Profit: 2.1% (+0.3) Conservative Party: 0.9% (+0.6) It's Time for Common Sense (Aontu): 0.3% (new)
On those numbers, the Alliance wins Belfast East and is close in Lagan Valley while the UUP take South Antrim.
I commented on this poll yesterday, it will be interesting to see exactly just how well Alliance can do and if they can get two MLAs in Lagan Valley, Strangford and North Down in particular.
I initially thought Alliance would easily get two in North Down but it's quite crowded with an incumbent DUP MLA now running as independent and a Green MLA also trying to defend her seat.
My first encounter with Winchester was when I was at school. At the age of about 12 or 13 I was reasonably good at chess, but when I got to public school there was no tradition of playing chess, and few of the boys played much. Then one of the masters decided he'd start a chess club, so a few of us met for a few times and played each other. The standard was not very high!
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
Two of the candidates from the recent Apprentice series:- A: I used to play chess for my county B: I'm good at chess too A: What's your favourite opening? B: Never mind
I have our employer national chess championships on Friday (yes some employers do have these!) - I am a bit worried that i might be outclassed or (even worse) make a serious faux pas. So been learning etiquette like a businesman on a trip to Japan as well as the London opening (if i am white) and the Caro Khan if black
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
He'd do poll-driven teaching. "If 67.6% of people say that Iran is south of the Caspian Sea and 20.5% of people say it's in Africa, what are the chances that it borders Brazil?"
Which would be considerably more logical and better thought out than much of the bullshit in the current National Curriculum.
Isn't it Conservative party policy in England to have 'Our Island Nation' as the set textbook? What happened to that?
My first encounter with Winchester was when I was at school. At the age of about 12 or 13 I was reasonably good at chess, but when I got to public school there was no tradition of playing chess, and few of the boys played much. Then one of the masters decided he'd start a chess club, so a few of us met for a few times and played each other. The standard was not very high!
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
Two of the candidates from the recent Apprentice series:- A: I used to play chess for my county B: I'm good at chess too A: What's your favourite opening? B: Never mind
I have our employer national chess championships on Friday (yes some employers do have these!) - I am a bit worried that i might be outclassed or (even worse) make a serious faux pas. So been learning etiquette like a businesman on a trip to Japan as well as the London opening (if i am white) and the Caro Khan if black
My first encounter with Winchester was when I was at school. At the age of about 12 or 13 I was reasonably good at chess, but when I got to public school there was no tradition of playing chess, and few of the boys played much. Then one of the masters decided he'd start a chess club, so a few of us met for a few times and played each other. The standard was not very high!
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
Two of the candidates from the recent Apprentice series:- A: I used to play chess for my county B: I'm good at chess too A: What's your favourite opening? B: Never mind
I have our employer national chess championships on Friday (yes some employers do have these!) - I am a bit worried that i might be outclassed or (even worse) make a serious faux pas. So been learning etiquette like a businesman on a trip to Japan as well as the London opening (if i am white) and the Caro Khan if black
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
One of the younger members of my extended family apparently got a very good grade in A level English literature without reading a single, complete book!!
Whole thing seemed to be about various snippets and bite-size portions of various works.
You all know my opinion of the current a-level and GCSE qualifications, so I won't bother labouring them in detail. Briefly, I think the issue with Leon's daughter is that they are so overstuffed with very precisely prescribed content that it's almost impossible to ever deviate from the script. If your case study for oil production is Nigeria, you teach Nigeria. While it might be useful intellectually to compare it to Iran, Venezuela or the USA, that isn't necessary for the exam so you move on rapidly to the next topic.
I personally find that incredibly tedious and unhelpful for everyone. But what do I know? I'm only a professional historian who's lectured in several unis, published multiple reference works and been a secondary school teacher for a decade. My opinion is obviously less important than that of the civil servants who overruled all expert advice to set the exams.
I do seriously wonder whether the goal is enlightenment and education and knowledge or getting as many through as possible at the highest grades in order to "show" that the government's policies work.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Where did Battle of Hastings take place, exactly? Believe it's still an open question!
"Battle of Hastings took place somewhere near Hastings, Kent. Bunch of obnoxious foreigners invaded, conquered and despoiled Britain. Until Brexit that is."
According to tradition - which I have never seen seriously challenged - it took place on Senlac Hill, and the altar of Battle Abbey which was founded within the lifetime of Odo of Bayeux was placed on the spot where Harold's body was found.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
One of the younger members of my extended family apparently got a very good grade in A level English literature without reading a single, complete book!!
Whole thing seemed to be about various snippets and bite-size portions of various works.
You all know my opinion of the current a-level and GCSE qualifications, so I won't bother labouring them in detail. Briefly, I think the issue with Leon's daughter is that they are so overstuffed with very precisely prescribed content that it's almost impossible to ever deviate from the script. If your case study for oil production is Nigeria, you teach Nigeria. While it might be useful intellectually to compare it to Iran, Venezuela or the USA, that isn't necessary for the exam so you move on rapidly to the next topic.
I personally find that incredibly tedious and unhelpful for everyone. But what do I know? I'm only a professional historian who's lectured in several unis, published multiple reference works and been a secondary school teacher for a decade. My opinion is obviously less important than that of the civil servants who overruled all expert advice to set the exams.
I do seriously wonder whether the goal is enlightenment and education and knowledge or getting as many through as possible at the highest grades in order to "show" that the government's policies work.
Sickening if true.
Do you? I don't think any teacher does. Not after their second year, anyway...
In a sane world, it would have been private schools that were abolished, not grammar schools.
No, have both.
Parents get more choice and bright children have more chance of getting into a highly academic state school
Make the state schools so good the private schools mostly go out of business (some will always survive, because connections)
My policy is to abolish the Department for Education and give the money direct to parents in terms of vouchers and make every school private.
My one nation instinct would allow lower income parents to double up their vouchers.
Wealthier parents could also pay extra.
Free markets in actions would lead to every school being awesome.
@TheScreamingEagles Can you provide more info or even a thread. I'm intrigued.
Give me a few weeks and I'll try to do a thread.
Excellent. I am instinctively pro free market and anti govt interference, but when it comes to education I am keen for equal opportunities for all hence pro comprehensive. In addition, and in part due to personal experience, I object to selection at the wrong age and much prefer streaming across all subjects so as to give all the best and equal opportunities.
If there is a way to achieve that in a free market and reduce govt involvement I am keen to hear about it.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Where did Battle of Hastings take place, exactly? Believe it's still an open question!
"Battle of Hastings took place somewhere near Hastings, Kent. Bunch of obnoxious foreigners invaded, conquered and despoiled Britain. Until Brexit that is."
According to tradition - which I have never seen seriously challenged - it took place on Senlac Hill, and the altar of Battle Abbey which was founded within the lifetime of Odo of Bayeux was placed on the spot where Harold's body was found.
Well worth a visit. You can feel the history.
Sadly, on the one occasion I was reasonably near, I was late for an appointment so I couldn't stop to visit. I was vaguely thinking of a trip to Sussex next week if I can find somewhere - I might go then.
There may be similar stories in UK press, but think this is worth sharing here
Seattle Times ($) At 62, ex-Microsoft executive goes from Seattle houseboat to Poland, transporting Ukrainian refugees
By Erik Lacitis , Seattle Times staff reporter
At 62, Rick Thompson is a comfortably retired ex-Microsoftie who lives on a houseboat on Portage Bay, walks 8 miles a day and likes to go out on his rowboat.
Since March 23, however, he’s been in Europe, shuttling Ukrainian refugees to safety in his rented Volkswagen van.
Everything about Thompson’s background — as a Microsoft vice president, to once being part owner of Ferrari of Seattle, to becoming owner-operator of Seattle Chocolate with his former wife, Jean Thompson (she is now sole owner) — is about being very personally involved in a project.
He says he knows he could have sent money to any number of charitable groups.
But Thompson felt compelled to be there in person to help. The United Nations says that as of April 2, more than 4 million refugees have fled Ukraine, nearly 10% of its population.
“I didn’t spend a whole lot of time thinking about it. It’s the first time in my life that there are really clear good guys and really clear bad guys,” says Thompson.
Being there means a personal connection and getting a thank you from someone like Tamara, a mom from Kyiv who doesn’t want her last name used. Her group in that Volkswagen van consisted of Tamara and her son; Tamara’s mom, Tamara’s sister and her two children; and another woman and her son.
Thompson drove them 1,000 miles from Przemysl, about 8 miles from the Polish-Ukrainian border to a refugee center in Brussels, a city with a sizable Ukrainian community.
“Our acquaintance with Richard is a gift of fate!” Tamara, wrote, interviewed for this story using Telegram, an encrypted app. ” … He gave us hope and faith that we are not alone and there are kind people like him …”
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
My first encounter with Winchester was when I was at school. At the age of about 12 or 13 I was reasonably good at chess, but when I got to public school there was no tradition of playing chess, and few of the boys played much. Then one of the masters decided he'd start a chess club, so a few of us met for a few times and played each other. The standard was not very high!
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
Two of the candidates from the recent Apprentice series:- A: I used to play chess for my county B: I'm good at chess too A: What's your favourite opening? B: Never mind
I have our employer national chess championships on Friday (yes some employers do have these!) - I am a bit worried that i might be outclassed or (even worse) make a serious faux pas. So been learning etiquette like a businesman on a trip to Japan as well as the London opening (if i am white) and the Caro Khan if black
Don't forget to hiss when you bow at the start of the game.
Rishi's star falls further as he donates £100, 000 to Winchester School
He has astonished me and Boris needs to move him on
So out of touch
"The donations fund bursaries for children whose parents would not otherwise be able to send them there."
I would have thought as a Conservative leaning voter you would be board with rich people donating so those fortunate can have access to top level education?
From my side of the political divide, a Chancellor properly funding a state system benefitting all children, rather than a private tax dodging bursary for one or two social climbers would be more appropriate.
Let's all laugh at 12 year old working class children, and call them names. Hurrah!
Memo to massively wealthy Tory politicians, don’t give MORE money to already wildly wealthy and super elitist public schools
I’d give similar advice to Labour politicians of questionable patriotism: don’t support the IRA and hang out with Hamas
Nah, it's very easy to defend - "I had a brillliant education at Winchester and I've been donating to a scholarship fund to enable kids who weren't as fortunate as I was when growing up to enable them to get the same benefits I had and with our education plan we will ensure that all kids get the same kind of excellent education I was able to receive"
It doesn't need more than one line.
Lol. A totally garbled, implausible line as you try to fit so much bollocks into one line
But it works because it's aspirational. The Tories are supposed to be the party of aspiration, not holding grudges against rich people.
Winchester College. Rrright.
Next he should give £30 million to the Duke of Westminster so he can lower rents on the Grosvenor Estate for his poorer tenants
The kids his money helped go to Winchester won't care and again, aspiration is what the Tory party are supposed to be in favour. I don't think this really hurts very much at all if they can frame it correctly. If this is an attack by team Boris they may have misjudged the party, which isn't surprising because Boris doesn't really get it.
Who actually gets these scholarships though? Is it ever a rat-catcher's spawn in hobnail boots and odd socks, or someone who would have traditionally forked out the fees had his ancestor not had to flog off the old manor house for Death Duties in 1965?
"Boys who are outstanding academically, who have been educated in the UK state system at primary level and who need financial assistance to attend Eton can be considered for the New Foundation Scholarship. Thanks to the generosity of a donor, this award provides means-tested financial support for up to four boys per year to attend Eton. These boys are identified by the school during the Admissions process. Where necessary, the scholarship will cover 100% fees and extras. We will help families identify the most appropriate pathway for their sons in Years 7 and 8. Boys should be registered in the normal way for 13+ entry by 30 June in UK school Year 5: please contact the Admissions Office if you have any queries."
'Up to' four boys a year! That's going to give underprivilege a good whacking, isn't it? Levelling up, indeed.
Loving your eyepopping claim that you don't get sex, drink or drugs in state schools, but it does rather torpedo your credibility on the subject of education.
Pupils at state schools tend to do it extramurally ... not being at boarding schools.
There are state boarding schools.
Addam's Grammar (of Mr Corbyn fame) being one of the most famous. But I think I'm right in saying there's one in Burford and one Keswick as well.
About 40 I think. I teach at one (though I'm not going to say which).
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
I got an A* in Geography GCSE I will have you know.
The Norman Conquest should be studied in Key Stage 2 I believe, ie ages 7-11
Although under the new White Paper the national curriculum would of course be abolished, as one of its goals is to academise every school.
Depends which bit, Edmund the Confessor and his death and key consequences are certainly KS3.
I don't have a problem with the principles of academies but I do think they should have to do the National Curriculum, certainly at least until 14 and not just English and Maths, Science and Religious Studies as now. Though I think most largely follow it.
In any case it will only happen for all schools if the Tories are re elected. Personally I would have a few more grammar schools rather than make all schools academies
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
Why do you prize Hastings on its own above Brunanburh? Serious question.
(I know the DfE do but that's because they're ignorant shits.)
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
I'd like to say that was rubbish, but most Heads and senior teams spend their lives trying to second guess what OFSTED want and making the teachers' lives a misery in the process.
Memo to massively wealthy Tory politicians, don’t give MORE money to already wildly wealthy and super elitist public schools
I’d give similar advice to Labour politicians of questionable patriotism: don’t support the IRA and hang out with Hamas
Nah, it's very easy to defend - "I had a brillliant education at Winchester and I've been donating to a scholarship fund to enable kids who weren't as fortunate as I was when growing up to enable them to get the same benefits I had and with our education plan we will ensure that all kids get the same kind of excellent education I was able to receive"
It doesn't need more than one line.
Lol. A totally garbled, implausible line as you try to fit so much bollocks into one line
But it works because it's aspirational. The Tories are supposed to be the party of aspiration, not holding grudges against rich people.
Winchester College. Rrright.
Next he should give £30 million to the Duke of Westminster so he can lower rents on the Grosvenor Estate for his poorer tenants
The kids his money helped go to Winchester won't care and again, aspiration is what the Tory party are supposed to be in favour. I don't think this really hurts very much at all if they can frame it correctly. If this is an attack by team Boris they may have misjudged the party, which isn't surprising because Boris doesn't really get it.
Who actually gets these scholarships though? Is it ever a rat-catcher's spawn in hobnail boots and odd socks, or someone who would have traditionally forked out the fees had his ancestor not had to flog off the old manor house for Death Duties in 1965?
"Boys who are outstanding academically, who have been educated in the UK state system at primary level and who need financial assistance to attend Eton can be considered for the New Foundation Scholarship. Thanks to the generosity of a donor, this award provides means-tested financial support for up to four boys per year to attend Eton. These boys are identified by the school during the Admissions process. Where necessary, the scholarship will cover 100% fees and extras. We will help families identify the most appropriate pathway for their sons in Years 7 and 8. Boys should be registered in the normal way for 13+ entry by 30 June in UK school Year 5: please contact the Admissions Office if you have any queries."
'Up to' four boys a year! That's going to give underprivilege a good whacking, isn't it? Levelling up, indeed.
Loving your eyepopping claim that you don't get sex, drink or drugs in state schools, but it does rather torpedo your credibility on the subject of education.
Pupils at state schools tend to do it extramurally ... not being at boarding schools.
There are state boarding schools.
Addam's Grammar (of Mr Corbyn fame) being one of the most famous. But I think I'm right in saying there's one in Burford and one Keswick as well.
About 40 I think. I teach at one (though I'm not going to say which).
THat many? I thought it was about half a dozen, not counting specialist services schools.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Where did Battle of Hastings take place, exactly? Believe it's still an open question!
"Battle of Hastings took place somewhere near Hastings, Kent. Bunch of obnoxious foreigners invaded, conquered and despoiled Britain. Until Brexit that is."
It was at Battle wasn't it? Cunning plan of Fat William to invade at the obvious named place
There is a lengthy debate and some interesting documentaries re: EXACT local of the Battle of Hastings.
Seems you may have fallen for cunning plan to fool the (in)credulous?
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
Why not teach non European literature, art and music as well as black history month.
My first encounter with Winchester was when I was at school. At the age of about 12 or 13 I was reasonably good at chess, but when I got to public school there was no tradition of playing chess, and few of the boys played much. Then one of the masters decided he'd start a chess club, so a few of us met for a few times and played each other. The standard was not very high!
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
Two of the candidates from the recent Apprentice series:- A: I used to play chess for my county B: I'm good at chess too A: What's your favourite opening? B: Never mind
I have our employer national chess championships on Friday (yes some employers do have these!) - I am a bit worried that i might be outclassed or (even worse) make a serious faux pas. So been learning etiquette like a businesman on a trip to Japan as well as the London opening (if i am white) and the Caro Khan if black
Try the Morphy Gambit. Followed by the Transcarpathian Exit.
Addendum - similar to what I advised BlancheL yesterday, recommend you ALWAYS keep a clean, dry, spare pair of underwear handy.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
Out of interest what do you think places like Winchester spend the income from their endowments on?
Here’s a little helper to get you going, it’s not on Super Yachts.
Maybe look in the direction of the crazy array of listed buildings which cost millions to upkeep each year. Now I’m sure if they are abolished the govt will happily spend the same money rather than lose those listed buildings but then everyone will be complaining that’s a waste of money I imagine.
Maybe look at the manuscripts such as Harmar’s work for the King James Bible which he did at Winchester which has to be preserved and insured as just one example.
Or do we seize these items from their legal owners - imagine the govt taking your manuscripts away from you…..
Please do explain though what it’s spent on because with 650 odd students paying around 45k a year it’s still not pissing the money up the wall on parties and gin.
I don't actually doubt that Winchester will spend the money on matters that they consider worthy. The criticism is that it's a peculiar priority in our society to give them a large sum when there are so many other obvious needs at home and abroad.
Since it's his money, he is of course entitled to give it to anyone he likes, or indeed to spend it on riotous living. However, in his position he also has a responsibility to show leadership and set an example of reasonable priorities. That will apply even more if, in due course, he become Prime Minister.
You don’t know how much he gives to charity (neither do I)
Let’s say it’s £1m per year. Over 10 years - the period the 100k was given - it would mean that 1% of his charitable giving was to his old school.
Memo to massively wealthy Tory politicians, don’t give MORE money to already wildly wealthy and super elitist public schools
I’d give similar advice to Labour politicians of questionable patriotism: don’t support the IRA and hang out with Hamas
Nah, it's very easy to defend - "I had a brillliant education at Winchester and I've been donating to a scholarship fund to enable kids who weren't as fortunate as I was when growing up to enable them to get the same benefits I had and with our education plan we will ensure that all kids get the same kind of excellent education I was able to receive"
It doesn't need more than one line.
Lol. A totally garbled, implausible line as you try to fit so much bollocks into one line
But it works because it's aspirational. The Tories are supposed to be the party of aspiration, not holding grudges against rich people.
Winchester College. Rrright.
Next he should give £30 million to the Duke of Westminster so he can lower rents on the Grosvenor Estate for his poorer tenants
The kids his money helped go to Winchester won't care and again, aspiration is what the Tory party are supposed to be in favour. I don't think this really hurts very much at all if they can frame it correctly. If this is an attack by team Boris they may have misjudged the party, which isn't surprising because Boris doesn't really get it.
Who actually gets these scholarships though? Is it ever a rat-catcher's spawn in hobnail boots and odd socks, or someone who would have traditionally forked out the fees had his ancestor not had to flog off the old manor house for Death Duties in 1965?
"Boys who are outstanding academically, who have been educated in the UK state system at primary level and who need financial assistance to attend Eton can be considered for the New Foundation Scholarship. Thanks to the generosity of a donor, this award provides means-tested financial support for up to four boys per year to attend Eton. These boys are identified by the school during the Admissions process. Where necessary, the scholarship will cover 100% fees and extras. We will help families identify the most appropriate pathway for their sons in Years 7 and 8. Boys should be registered in the normal way for 13+ entry by 30 June in UK school Year 5: please contact the Admissions Office if you have any queries."
'Up to' four boys a year! That's going to give underprivilege a good whacking, isn't it? Levelling up, indeed.
Loving your eyepopping claim that you don't get sex, drink or drugs in state schools, but it does rather torpedo your credibility on the subject of education.
Pupils at state schools tend to do it extramurally ... not being at boarding schools.
There are state boarding schools.
Addam's Grammar (of Mr Corbyn fame) being one of the most famous. But I think I'm right in saying there's one in Burford and one Keswick as well.
About 40 I think. I teach at one (though I'm not going to say which).
THat many? I thought it was about half a dozen, not counting specialist services schools.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
Why do you prize Hastings on its own above Brunanburh? Serious question.
(I know the DfE do but that's because they're ignorant shits.)
Because Hastings is a uniquely extraordinary event in our history, which changed everything. Brunanburh did not, because we fended off conquest (which was never as menacing as Norman triumph, anyroad). Also Brunanburh might not have happened and, certainly, no one is at all sure where it happened, which doesn’t help
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
I got an A* in Geography GCSE I will have you know.
The Norman Conquest should be studied in Key Stage 2 I believe, ie ages 7-11
Although under the new White Paper the national curriculum would of course be abolished, as one of its goals is to academise every school.
Depends which bit, Edmund the Confessor and his death and key consequences are certainly KS3.
I don't have a problem with the principles of academies but I do think they should have to do the National Curriculum, certainly at least until 14 and not just English and Maths, Science and Religious Studies as now. Though I think most largely follow it.
In any case it will only happen for all schools if the Tories are re elected. Personally I would have a few more grammar schools rather than make all schools academies
Why? What makes you think a third rate SPAD or drunken civil servant like, well, most of the DfE will know better what works for the children in my school and what will help them learn than I do?
The Chancellor of the Exchequer, who is providing over a cost of living crisis that might see people actually go hungry, is worth £500 million, and decided that Winchester College really needed £100,000. Cause they can barely get by, what with being worth £100 million less than him and his wife
What’s more, he decided this donation was so crucial to Winchester College, which is barely scraping by with its £400 million in assets and £27 million in annual income, he should give this money PUBLICLY, so everyone can see his priorities
He has been giving this money over the course of 10 years (by 2014, he had given over £25k).....that is what ultra wealthy people do, they give money and get their names on plaques of buildings.
You can't turn a corner of London without some building, street, monument being named such because somebody once gave some money to charity....
If Boris had a spare £100k like Rishi, you could be sure he wouldn't be giving it to Eton's scholarship fund but having a huge party of debauchery. Yet Rishi gets the flack
Because he wanted the warm praise that comes from publicly giving to charity, and now this has come back to haunt him
I believe there is a Biblical parable with some relevance here
It was pretty low key giving. he doesn't even put MP after his name, and I challenge you to find a more obscure journal to publicise yourself in, it makes the Flint Knapper's Quarterly look like the News of the World. Not that I mind what happens to him, but this was pure bad luck compounded by pure malice.
Like many - I suspect - I struggle to feel sorry for the *bad luck* of Rishi “£500 million” Sunak, as he is discovered giving £100,000 to struggling, desperate Winchester “£400 million” College (single sex pre sixth form)
Sure. I am just exposing the skill with which this has been parlayed into a "Fuck you suckers" bit of post-Spring Statement ostentation when it is nothing of the kind.
This has prompted me to look at the records of my own school, and I am amazed at some of my contemps who have coughed up and want the alumniariat to know about it. On the vanishingly rare occasions I am overwhelmed by the need to give to charity I quite like paying for operations to cure African children of blindness. It seems a better use of the money.
That would be the money earned by enslaving their ancestors right?
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
Why do you prize Hastings on its own above Brunanburh? Serious question.
(I know the DfE do but that's because they're ignorant shits.)
Because Hastings is a uniquely extraordinary event in our history, which changed everything. Brunanburh did not, because we fended off conquest (which was never as menacing as Norman triumph, anyroad). Also Brunanburh might not have happened and, certainly, no one is at all sure where it happened, which doesn’t help
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
One of the younger members of my extended family apparently got a very good grade in A level English literature without reading a single, complete book!!
Whole thing seemed to be about various snippets and bite-size portions of various works.
You all know my opinion of the current a-level and GCSE qualifications, so I won't bother labouring them in detail. Briefly, I think the issue with Leon's daughter is that they are so overstuffed with very precisely prescribed content that it's almost impossible to ever deviate from the script. If your case study for oil production is Nigeria, you teach Nigeria. While it might be useful intellectually to compare it to Iran, Venezuela or the USA, that isn't necessary for the exam so you move on rapidly to the next topic.
I personally find that incredibly tedious and unhelpful for everyone. But what do I know? I'm only a professional historian who's lectured in several unis, published multiple reference works and been a secondary school teacher for a decade. My opinion is obviously less important than that of the civil servants who overruled all expert advice to set the exams.
I do seriously wonder whether the goal is enlightenment and education and knowledge or getting as many through as possible at the highest grades in order to "show" that the government's policies work.
Sickening if true.
Do you? I don't think any teacher does. Not after their second year, anyway...
Sadly it’s the tyranny of tables. How do you show improvement? Must measure something. Measure something = introduce ways to hustle the numbers. Stop teaching individual sciences and teach combined, so more space for easier subjects. Just like policing. Perverse incentives to go after middle class speeders rather than drug dealers. Speed traps = easy, and they pay up. Or go appointments. Create a system that means if you don’t ring at opening time you don’t get an appointment, but the figures show all appointments are within x time. Shame abou5 those who don’t get appointments... Targets distort behaviour. Every time.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Where did Battle of Hastings take place, exactly? Believe it's still an open question!
"Battle of Hastings took place somewhere near Hastings, Kent. Bunch of obnoxious foreigners invaded, conquered and despoiled Britain. Until Brexit that is."
Hastings is in Sussex! William would never have succeeded if he’d tried to come through Kent.
Rishi's star falls further as he donates £100, 000 to Winchester School
He has astonished me and Boris needs to move him on
So out of touch
"The donations fund bursaries for children whose parents would not otherwise be able to send them there."
I would have thought as a Conservative leaning voter you would be board with rich people donating so those fortunate can have access to top level education?
From my side of the political divide, a Chancellor properly funding a state system benefitting all children, rather than a private tax dodging bursary for one or two social climbers would be more appropriate.
Let's all laugh at 12 year old working class children, and call them names. Hurrah!
The chances are they won't be "gifted" children from a sink estate in Scunthorpe anyway, but less well off middle class wannabe high rollers from the Home Counties.
But I see your point, like Basil Fawlty said, "no riff-raff".
You all know my opinion of the current a-level and GCSE qualifications, so I won't bother labouring them in detail. Briefly, I think the issue with Leon's daughter is that they are so overstuffed with very precisely prescribed content that it's almost impossible to ever deviate from the script. If your case study for oil production is Nigeria, you teach Nigeria. While it might be useful intellectually to compare it to Iran, Venezuela or the USA, that isn't necessary for the exam so you move on rapidly to the next topic.
I personally find that incredibly tedious and unhelpful for everyone. But what do I know? I'm only a professional historian who's lectured in several unis, published multiple reference works and been a secondary school teacher for a decade. My opinion is obviously less important than that of the civil servants who overruled all expert advice to set the exams.
Sorry to hear of this.
When I was doing my A levels, 22 (ish) years ago, this process was already in motion. My history A level teacher, the head of history, was going down the ultra prescribed route to get results. We didn't have any interesting discussions at all in the class. The other teachers were still trying to teach, in the traditional sense, by making us think, the classes were much more fun.
I've lost confidence in the whole education system and don't take it seriously anymore. As I said before, I just see it as my own responsibility to teach my son things that I am interested in (history, philosophy, politics, religion, architecture); try and pass on the knowledge I have accrued.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
One of the younger members of my extended family apparently got a very good grade in A level English literature without reading a single, complete book!!
Whole thing seemed to be about various snippets and bite-size portions of various works.
You all know my opinion of the current a-level and GCSE qualifications, so I won't bother labouring them in detail. Briefly, I think the issue with Leon's daughter is that they are so overstuffed with very precisely prescribed content that it's almost impossible to ever deviate from the script. If your case study for oil production is Nigeria, you teach Nigeria. While it might be useful intellectually to compare it to Iran, Venezuela or the USA, that isn't necessary for the exam so you move on rapidly to the next topic.
I personally find that incredibly tedious and unhelpful for everyone. But what do I know? I'm only a professional historian who's lectured in several unis, published multiple reference works and been a secondary school teacher for a decade. My opinion is obviously less important than that of the civil servants who overruled all expert advice to set the exams.
I do seriously wonder whether the goal is enlightenment and education and knowledge or getting as many through as possible at the highest grades in order to "show" that the government's policies work.
Sickening if true.
Do you? I don't think any teacher does. Not after their second year, anyway...
My teacher grandchildren are all of the option that getting their charges through to upcoming exams is their prime purpose in life. The one in the primary school in Basildon also sees it as his duty to see that the children are in a ‘safe space’ for at least the time they are with him.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
Why do you prize Hastings on its own above Brunanburh? Serious question.
(I know the DfE do but that's because they're ignorant shits.)
Because Hastings is a uniquely extraordinary event in our history, which changed everything. Brunanburh did not, because we fended off conquest (which was never as menacing as Norman triumph, anyroad). Also Brunanburh might not have happened and, certainly, no one is at all sure where it happened, which doesn’t help
Brunanburh was the key moment in the development of a unified English state - not forgetting there were later setbacks. That definitely changed everything. Indeed, it was what made first the Danish and then the Norman Conquest possible.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
Why not teach non European literature, art and music as well as black history month.
Let’s revel in the world not Western Europe.
I said, specifically, just ONE YEAR. Age about 14 or 15, so they can understand it
Is it so unreasonable to ask British kids to spend ONE YEAR of their history education learning the history of Britain, so bright kids like my older daughter will know what the Battle of Hastings actually was, and when, and why?
Spend the rest of time teaching them the latest Woke piffle, if necessary
Ditto Geography. Spend one year making them look at maps and list capital cities and understand where the big rivers are, etc. One year giving them a mental map
FFS my older daughter is doing brilliantly at Geography and she cannot place most countries on a map
If they are too dim to absorb all this, faith enough. We should at least try
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
Trust YOU to give priority to fellow flint-knappers!
Hardly surprising you left out the Irish. But you dare to cancel WINSTON CHURCHILL???
You all know my opinion of the current a-level and GCSE qualifications, so I won't bother labouring them in detail. Briefly, I think the issue with Leon's daughter is that they are so overstuffed with very precisely prescribed content that it's almost impossible to ever deviate from the script. If your case study for oil production is Nigeria, you teach Nigeria. While it might be useful intellectually to compare it to Iran, Venezuela or the USA, that isn't necessary for the exam so you move on rapidly to the next topic.
I personally find that incredibly tedious and unhelpful for everyone. But what do I know? I'm only a professional historian who's lectured in several unis, published multiple reference works and been a secondary school teacher for a decade. My opinion is obviously less important than that of the civil servants who overruled all expert advice to set the exams.
Sorry to hear of this.
When I was doing my A levels, 22 (ish) years ago, this process was already in motion. My history A level teacher, the head of history, was going down the ultra prescribed route to get results. We didn't have any interesting discussions at all in the class. The other teachers were still trying to teach, in the traditional sense, by making us think, the classes were much more fun.
I've lost confidence in the whole education system and don't take it seriously anymore. As I said before, I just see it as my own responsibility to teach my son things that I am interested in (history, philosophy, politics, religion, architecture); try and pass on the knowledge I have accrued.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
Why not teach non European literature, art and music as well as black history month.
Let’s revel in the world not Western Europe.
Which non-European literature, art and music did you have in mind? Other that The Romance of the Three Kingdoms and The Epic of Gilgamesh I'm not sure that I could name a non religious work of literature that wasn't written in a European language (which says much more about me than it does about world literature of course).
My first encounter with Winchester was when I was at school. At the age of about 12 or 13 I was reasonably good at chess, but when I got to public school there was no tradition of playing chess, and few of the boys played much. Then one of the masters decided he'd start a chess club, so a few of us met for a few times and played each other. The standard was not very high!
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
Two of the candidates from the recent Apprentice series:- A: I used to play chess for my county B: I'm good at chess too A: What's your favourite opening? B: Never mind
I have our employer national chess championships on Friday (yes some employers do have these!) - I am a bit worried that i might be outclassed or (even worse) make a serious faux pas. So been learning etiquette like a businesman on a trip to Japan as well as the London opening (if i am white) and the Caro Khan if black
Don't forget to hiss when you bow at the start of the game.
Better yet, have your personal-support python do it for you/ Talk about gamesmanship!
Rishi's star falls further as he donates £100, 000 to Winchester School
He has astonished me and Boris needs to move him on
So out of touch
"The donations fund bursaries for children whose parents would not otherwise be able to send them there."
I would have thought as a Conservative leaning voter you would be board with rich people donating so those fortunate can have access to top level education?
From my side of the political divide, a Chancellor properly funding a state system benefitting all children, rather than a private tax dodging bursary for one or two social climbers would be more appropriate.
Let's all laugh at 12 year old working class children, and call them names. Hurrah!
The chances are they won't be "gifted" children from a sink estate in Scunthorpe anyway, but less well off middle class wannabe high rollers from the Home Counties.
But I see your point, like Basil Fawlty said, "no riff-raff".
No. you are simply wrong. I was at one of these schools, I had friends who were on these bursaries, and they were not less well off middle class wannabe high rollers from the Home Counties.
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Do we know that Hyufd isn't her Geography teacher!
I got an A* in Geography GCSE I will have you know.
The Norman Conquest should be studied in Key Stage 2 I believe, ie ages 7-11
Although under the new White Paper the national curriculum would of course be abolished, as one of its goals is to academise every school.
Depends which bit, Edmund the Confessor and his death and key consequences are certainly KS3.
I don't have a problem with the principles of academies but I do think they should have to do the National Curriculum, certainly at least until 14 and not just English and Maths, Science and Religious Studies as now. Though I think most largely follow it.
In any case it will only happen for all schools if the Tories are re elected. Personally I would have a few more grammar schools rather than make all schools academies
Why? What makes you think a third rate SPAD or drunken civil servant like, well, most of the DfE will know better what works for the children in my school and what will help them learn than I do?
As it ensures all children across the country have had the opportunity to acquire the same key knowledge before they leave school. How that is taught is then up to teachers.
It was of course the Thatcher Government which first introduced a National Curriculum with the Education Reform Act 1988
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
One of the younger members of my extended family apparently got a very good grade in A level English literature without reading a single, complete book!!
Whole thing seemed to be about various snippets and bite-size portions of various works.
You all know my opinion of the current a-level and GCSE qualifications, so I won't bother labouring them in detail. Briefly, I think the issue with Leon's daughter is that they are so overstuffed with very precisely prescribed content that it's almost impossible to ever deviate from the script. If your case study for oil production is Nigeria, you teach Nigeria. While it might be useful intellectually to compare it to Iran, Venezuela or the USA, that isn't necessary for the exam so you move on rapidly to the next topic.
I personally find that incredibly tedious and unhelpful for everyone. But what do I know? I'm only a professional historian who's lectured in several unis, published multiple reference works and been a secondary school teacher for a decade. My opinion is obviously less important than that of the civil servants who overruled all expert advice to set the exams.
I do seriously wonder whether the goal is enlightenment and education and knowledge or getting as many through as possible at the highest grades in order to "show" that the government's policies work.
Sickening if true.
Do you? I don't think any teacher does. Not after their second year, anyway...
My teacher grandchildren are all of the option that getting their charges through to upcoming exams is their prime purpose in life. The one in the primary school in Basildon also sees it as his duty to see that the children are in a ‘safe space’ for at least the time they are with him.
Well, I'm glad to hear he doesn't think it's his job to put them in danger. But I just find it incredibly sad that that's what our education system has come to.
Not that it's much better in the United States, where I am being paid large sums of money to tutor people to get top grades.
I suppose, paradoxically, that makes me a beneficiary of the system I despise (grrrr). But as @Dura_Ace has said on here before, if you want to get them top grades in an exam, grill them remorselessly on past papers for about three months before. You'll kill their love for the subject stone dead, but they will get good grades.
My first encounter with Winchester was when I was at school. At the age of about 12 or 13 I was reasonably good at chess, but when I got to public school there was no tradition of playing chess, and few of the boys played much. Then one of the masters decided he'd start a chess club, so a few of us met for a few times and played each other. The standard was not very high!
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
Two of the candidates from the recent Apprentice series:- A: I used to play chess for my county B: I'm good at chess too A: What's your favourite opening? B: Never mind
I used to play chess at a state school (one which did have a chess playing culture) and we got to the semi-finals of the national competition (sponsored by the Times then), losing to one of the public schools (just). The public school had brought in a GM or IM (can't remember which) to do some training...
I also played in the local leagues and there were lots of yoof then, including one team made up pretty much of one chess playing family.
These days, none. Are they all just playing video games, or is there also no time for such things at school any more?
Objectively, it's commendable. Yet it is focussed very much on buttressing the private education system.
Subjectively, it's a disaster, as it reminds the rest of the UK just how much money the Chancellor has to spare. (And how much tax relief was involved, too?)
Objectively.. is it? Donating money to a cause depends on the worthiness of that cause. Private schools are engines for concentrating the quality of services and delivering them mostly to those who can pay.
Yes, I know that bursaries exist and the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in, but it's still a system of intentional and intense stratification that benefits the extremely wealthy. It obviously right up HYUFD's street but if you asked me (I know, I know) I could find much better things to do with a spare £100k.
"...the poor but brilliant gold ticket winner can get in..."
This is a modern version of the Distressed Gentlefolk* charity. Sure, in theory it's open to anybody but in reality only a very small subset of society, usually with the right connections, would ever have the wherewithal to apply, let alone be successful. It's a sham.
(*I am probably being unfair to that charity, now sensibly renamed 'Elizabeth Finn Care'.)
Not so. The recipients of these bursaries are not secret poshos down on their luck, they are the real deal. And quite often getting a shit time from everybody else for their failure to be posh, secretly or otherwise, but that's another story.
Just exactly how do Winchester, Eton, etc. publicise these bursaries in your average sink estate?
no idea. Talent scouts?
Let me help you: They don't.
Let me help you: you don’t know what you are talking about. Not only do they have very active outreach programmes helping schools and sharing resources they actively promote bursaries and scholarships around the country because funnily enough they actually do want to recruit very bright and able students as it benefits everyone at the school and, if cynical, the reputation of the school when these bright kids get access to places they wouldn’t otherwise and go on to do great things.
All the major public schools support inner city clubs - Winchester for example supports the Crown and Manor club in London where they arrange exchanges, tutorial help, resources, money and time for kids from some of the shittiest unfortunate backgrounds because funnily enough all public school people aren’t entitled wankers.
The people aren’t, the institutions are selfish greedy fucks. Winchester is worth 400 million. What the fuck, And they want to be charities? UGH
Take their charitable status away
Just one of the many stupidities of what Sunak has done is he has ensured - if this story gains traction (Ukraine might save him) - is that every Tory will now be asked to justify Sunak’s 100k to Winchester. Because he is CoE they will have to defend him, but it will be very awkward, and it will sound like MaxPB’s strangulated nonsense. They won’t thank him for this
That charitable status helps them fund scholarships and bursaries and providing sports and arts facilities to share with the local community too
I think you've put the cart before the horse there. As a retired teacher from the independent sector I was aware that the charitable status had been around for many years before the advent of large numbers of scholarships. The development of scholarships etc appeared as a way championed by ISI to justify and retain the charitable status already in place. The main reason for the charitable status was to be let off paying the rates, which was usually enormous. The school still had to pay VAT on the usual items.
Rate relief has been abolished for private schools in Scotland - came into force this month AIUI. Now treated the same as state schools in that respect.
And the private schools will thus offer fewer scholarships and become even more the preserve of the rich.
Great job Sturgeon!
My kids former school is cutting back on teaching staff and places despite having a waiting list as a result.
We had a child or children at that school for 20 years. The change was remarkable. Originally dominated by old school money and inherited wealth it, over time it became dominated by people paying their fees from income in despair of the collapse of the state system. The ethos changed too. Originally a place you went to make friends of the clique that would see you alright and get a place for you it became focused on results. Those paying the fees from their hard earned want their kids in Russell group unis with a ticket to the professions.
It would be sad if it slipped back.
I fully understand why parents would want to buy their kids 'a ticket to the professions' but surely you must see how intrinsically unfair the opportunity to buy such tickets is and how poorly it serves the professions?
It is unfair yes. But I am not so sure it’s bad for the professions. They need people who have had a useful and thorough education and that is becoming increasingly rare in Scotland.
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
Where did Battle of Hastings take place, exactly? Believe it's still an open question!
"Battle of Hastings took place somewhere near Hastings, Kent. Bunch of obnoxious foreigners invaded, conquered and despoiled Britain. Until Brexit that is."
Hastings is in Sussex! William would never have succeeded if he’d tried to come through Kent.
Why not? Worked for Caesar!
I stand corrected - a rare moment for all to savor . . .
Also, England. My older daughter just aced her mock GCSEs at her supposedly Outstanding north London comp, but I recently discovered she has no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or was or what it meant or how it worked or anything, and she also has no idea whether Iran is north, south, east or west of Russia (and she is doing Geography and got the equivalent of an A*)
WTF are they actually teaching them
My own attitude, is that school is largely about socialisation, and a weird performance for the (normally absent) ofsted Inspectors (more evidence of this earlier in the thread).
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
Fuck “Black History Month” which seems to be Every fucking Month
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age Doggerland Beaker People Bronze Age Stonehenge Celts Romans Anglo Saxons Hastings Normans Anglo-Normans Tudors Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana! Civil War Protestants win, but Restoration Enlightenment, Scottish Union Industrial Revolution Empire More Empire Still more empire First World War Depression WW2 yay heroes Decline End of Empire Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
Why do you prize Hastings on its own above Brunanburh? Serious question.
(I know the DfE do but that's because they're ignorant shits.)
I would suggest most people with a passing knowledge of history would agree with Leon and DfE, not because they are necessarily right, but because as a culture we tend to mark change as being more important than continuity. Brunanburh, for all its importance, was basically consolidating rather than changing. Hastings marked a definitive change.
It is also why Bosworth is regarded as a more important battle than Stoke Fields only 2 years later even though the latter was much larger and had more casualties.
History, rightly or wrongly, is regarded as being punctuated far more by change than continuity.
Comments
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1511049569450303496?s=20&t=s6feJWI45tuI18Ty1aVFnQ
But whatever.
As @Dura_Ace memorably phrased it, “The British people will never vote for a fucking Borrower”
Then it was decided we'd form a team and play other schools. As the least bad of the bunch, I was appointed captain. Unfortunately our first match was against Winchester.
In the event, playing against a group of really smart boys who played regularly and who had quite a culture of chess-playing, it was what I think would technically be known as an absolute rout. I did manage to hold my opponent, the opposing captain, to a draw on one of the games, which saved a bit of face for me at least, but otherwise it was carnage.
Our team disbanded shortly afterwards and the chess club fell into desuetude...
WTF are they actually teaching them
One or two polling snippets tonight - the latest Forsa poll in Germany has re-established the SPD lead of three points (27-24) over the Union. Both parties little changed since the election but the Greens are up four since last September and are now on 19% in a strong third. The FDP have fallen back three points and now trail Alternative.
The three parties in the governing coalition are on 54%, up two from the last election.
The Ipsos-Sopra Steria poll is encouraging for Macron - he has a healthy six and a half point lead over Le Pen but wins the hypothetical match up 54-46 and beats Melenchon 59-41.
Other polls show a much tighter race with Macron ahead 27-23.
Closer to home, we have that rarity - a poll from Northern Ireland. The numbers (with changes on Dec 2019):
Sinn Fein: 27.0% (-0.9)
Democratic Unionist:: 20.2% (-7.9)
Alliance Party: 14.6% (+5.5)
Ulster Unionist: 13.5% (+0.6)
Social Democratic & Labour Party: 10.3% (-1.6)
Traditional Unionist Voice: 5.4% (+2.8)
Green Party Northern Ireland: 4.3% (+2.0)
People Before Profit: 2.1% (+0.3)
Conservative Party: 0.9% (+0.6)
It's Time for Common Sense (Aontu): 0.3% (new)
On those numbers, the Alliance wins Belfast East and is close in Lagan Valley while the UUP take South Antrim.
BTW, 4th US President and leading light of US Constitution was 5'4". He was targeted by British "heightists" to such an extent, that they burned down his home!
BTW, his wife, Dolley Payne Todd Madison was 5'7"
Whole thing seemed to be about various snippets and bite-size portions of various works.
No doubt all part of Vlad's mad idea of wrecking the West.
I personally find that incredibly tedious and unhelpful for everyone. But what do I know? I'm only a professional historian who's lectured in several unis, published multiple reference works and been a secondary school teacher for a decade. My opinion is obviously less important than that of the civil servants who overruled all expert advice to set the exams.
It’s 100% tribal? The macron tribe is about as big as the Rishi Sunake tribe.
MoonRabbit is a ramper? I 100% would not vote for Melenchon, Le Pen or Zemmour. But then, I’m not French 🤷♀️
Maybe you are letting what you want cloud how poorly Macron has set himself up for re-election. Macron is actually a poor strategic politician at building positive support for himself, necessary to win series of elections. I have given many reasons why he lost (this time) but this is chief among them.
The Norman Conquest should be studied in Key Stage 2 I believe, ie ages 7-11
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-history-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-history-programmes-of-study
"Battle of Hastings took place somewhere near Hastings, Kent. Bunch of obnoxious foreigners invaded, conquered and despoiled Britain. Until Brexit that is."
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/239075/SECONDARY_national_curriculum_-_History.pdf
Although under the new White Paper the national curriculum would of course be abolished, as one of its goals is to academise every school.
Jimmy Retweeted
Jen Brick Murtazashvili
@jmurtazashvili
·
5h
President
@TokayevKZ
doubles down on support for Ukraine.
Kazakhstan 🇰🇿 has “deep traditions of friendly relations with Ukraine. We respect its territorial integrity—as the overwhelming majority of the world
https://twitter.com/jmurtazashvili/status/1511327478735937540
A: I used to play chess for my county
B: I'm good at chess too
A: What's your favourite opening?
B: Never mind
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/05/barbarians-russian-troops-leave-grisly-mark-on-ukraine-town-of-trostianets?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
It will be very hard for anyone to forgive Russia after this.
I take the responsibility of passing on knowledge about history to my son myself. I am sure that the school will just trot out a load of woke ideology anyway the way things are going, when it comes to history. He can already explain the difference between prehistory and history. We do a different period every other night, last night we were looking at Sargon of Akkad. Some of the books you can buy are brilliant. We've also been learning how to fight, so going through Karate and Wing Chun moves, which he loves. Much of history is about war. Kids are so much fun.
My theory is, that if all this is entrenched at age 5, then he won't forget it when he goes through his teenage rebellion and delinquency.
I initially thought Alliance would easily get two in North Down but it's quite crowded with an incumbent DUP MLA now running as independent and a Green MLA also trying to defend her seat.
Sickening if true.
If there is a way to achieve that in a free market and reduce govt involvement I am keen to hear about it.
Seattle Times ($) At 62, ex-Microsoft executive goes from Seattle houseboat to Poland, transporting Ukrainian refugees
By Erik Lacitis , Seattle Times staff reporter
At 62, Rick Thompson is a comfortably retired ex-Microsoftie who lives on a houseboat on Portage Bay, walks 8 miles a day and likes to go out on his rowboat.
Since March 23, however, he’s been in Europe, shuttling Ukrainian refugees to safety in his rented Volkswagen van.
Everything about Thompson’s background — as a Microsoft vice president, to once being part owner of Ferrari of Seattle, to becoming owner-operator of Seattle Chocolate with his former wife, Jean Thompson (she is now sole owner) — is about being very personally involved in a project.
He says he knows he could have sent money to any number of charitable groups.
But Thompson felt compelled to be there in person to help. The United Nations says that as of April 2, more than 4 million refugees have fled Ukraine, nearly 10% of its population.
“I didn’t spend a whole lot of time thinking about it. It’s the first time in my life that there are really clear good guys and really clear bad guys,” says Thompson.
Being there means a personal connection and getting a thank you from someone like Tamara, a mom from Kyiv who doesn’t want her last name used. Her group in that Volkswagen van consisted of Tamara and her son; Tamara’s mom, Tamara’s sister and her two children; and another woman and her son.
Thompson drove them 1,000 miles from Przemysl, about 8 miles from the Polish-Ukrainian border to a refugee center in Brussels, a city with a sizable Ukrainian community.
“Our acquaintance with Richard is a gift of fate!” Tamara, wrote, interviewed for this story using Telegram, an encrypted app. ” … He gave us hope and faith that we are not alone and there are kind people like him …”
Edit - more to this story at
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/at-62-ex-microsoftie-goes-from-seattle-houseboat-to-poland-transporting-ukrainian-refugees/
How about “Basic British History Year” when they spend just one year - just one - giving them the absolute fundamentals of why we are the nation we are
Ice Age
Doggerland
Beaker People
Bronze Age
Stonehenge
Celts
Romans
Anglo Saxons
Hastings
Normans
Anglo-Normans
Tudors
Golden Age of Elizabeth, Gloriana!
Civil War
Protestants win, but Restoration
Enlightenment, Scottish Union
Industrial Revolution
Empire
More Empire
Still more empire
First World War
Depression
WW2 yay heroes
Decline
End of Empire
Beatles, the Pill, winter of discontent
Thatcher, the Saviour
Seriously, Do each one every week. For a year
That gives you the total basics. The mental map. Then, if you drearily insist, go back to the fucking Woke bollox
I don't have a problem with the principles of academies but I do think they should have to do the National Curriculum, certainly at least until 14 and not just English and Maths, Science and Religious Studies as now. Though I think most largely follow it.
In any case it will only happen for all schools if the Tories are re elected. Personally I would have a few more grammar schools rather than make all schools academies
(I know the DfE do but that's because they're ignorant shits.)
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1511410048437784578
Seems you may have fallen for cunning plan to fool the (in)credulous?
Let’s revel in the world not Western Europe.
Addendum - similar to what I advised BlancheL yesterday, recommend you ALWAYS keep a clean, dry, spare pair of underwear handy.
Let’s say it’s £1m per year. Over 10 years - the period the 100k was given - it would mean that 1% of his charitable giving was to his old school.
Is that an example of “reasonable priorities”?
Just like policing. Perverse incentives to go after middle class speeders rather than drug dealers. Speed traps = easy, and they pay up.
Or go appointments. Create a system that means if you don’t ring at opening time you don’t get an appointment, but the figures show all appointments are within x time. Shame abou5 those who don’t get appointments...
Targets distort behaviour. Every time.
But I see your point, like Basil Fawlty said, "no riff-raff".
When I was doing my A levels, 22 (ish) years ago, this process was already in motion. My history A level teacher, the head of history, was going down the ultra prescribed route to get results. We didn't have any interesting discussions at all in the class. The other teachers were still trying to teach, in the traditional sense, by making us think, the classes were much more fun.
I've lost confidence in the whole education system and don't take it seriously anymore. As I said before, I just see it as my own responsibility to teach my son things that I am interested in (history, philosophy, politics, religion, architecture); try and pass on the knowledge I have accrued.
Is it so unreasonable to ask British kids to spend ONE YEAR of their history education learning the history of Britain, so bright kids like my older daughter will know what the Battle of Hastings actually was, and when, and why?
Spend the rest of time teaching them the latest Woke piffle, if necessary
Ditto Geography. Spend one year making them look at maps and list capital cities and understand where the big rivers are, etc. One year giving them a mental map
FFS my older daughter is doing brilliantly at Geography and she cannot place most countries on a map
If they are too dim to absorb all this, faith enough. We should at least try
Hardly surprising you left out the Irish. But you dare to cancel WINSTON CHURCHILL???
It was of course the Thatcher Government which first introduced a National Curriculum with the Education Reform Act 1988
Not that it's much better in the United States, where I am being paid large sums of money to tutor people to get top grades.
I suppose, paradoxically, that makes me a beneficiary of the system I despise (grrrr). But as @Dura_Ace has said on here before, if you want to get them top grades in an exam, grill them remorselessly on past papers for about three months before. You'll kill their love for the subject stone dead, but they will get good grades.
I also played in the local leagues and there were lots of yoof then, including one team made up pretty much of one chess playing family.
These days, none. Are they all just playing video games, or is there also no time for such things at school any more?
I stand corrected - a rare moment for all to savor . . .
It is also why Bosworth is regarded as a more important battle than Stoke Fields only 2 years later even though the latter was much larger and had more casualties.
History, rightly or wrongly, is regarded as being punctuated far more by change than continuity.
"Russian President Vladimir Putin is reportedly in a near-constant state of frustrated rage at his army’s appalling incompetence."
https://twitter.com/TheLiberal_ie/status/1511418641799069697