We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
No, not simply incorrect. The law cannot modify either reality, or the English language. If you like we can invent new categories - lwomen and lmen vs bwomen and bmen, where l is legal and b is birth or biological. a lman is just a bwoman with a piece of paper. Which is fine: for almost all purposes we can treat lwoman as = woman, but not where you start confusing the categories and insisting that lwomen do not have penises and are therefore incapable of rape. you would think that stipulation would be too obvious to need making, but we have just seen that it does.
Interesting interview with the head of Ukraine's negotiating team - I know some here feel intellinews is biased to Russia, but this seems lucid, reasonable and as entirely pro-Ukrainian as you'd expect in his position:
The negotiators are being strikingly polite about each other. By implication, the move is towards neutrality with a Swiss-style militia and multiple guarantees, de facto acknowledgement without de jure recognition of Russian control of Donbas and Crimea, and some general wording to enable both sides to sell the deal to their domestic audiences. Abolishing sanctions isn't part of the deal; Ukraine will leave it to the West to decide what sanctions to maintain.
Nick
Sanctions don't matter any more. Who is going to buy Russian now? Who is going to trade with them.
Nobody is going to trust them.
Anger at Pepsi deal to sell 2,000 tonnes of Scottish seed potatoes to Russia
Styory contains a glaring error. You don't use seed potatoes for food.
"Saltire is the preferred supplier to Walkers crisps, which is owned by Pepsi Co, so we export about 70% of seed production to Pepsico-owned companies around the world."
May I just add that my daughter was sexually interfered with by our local GP, Dr Alan Tutin, when she was sixteen. It was a fairly minor case and I never heard anything about it until about seven years later when she was one of a number of women who voluntairly submitted evidence to the GMC in support of another local girl who had been much more seriously assaulted by him.
The GMC threw the case out, which surprised me because it implied that my daughter and numerous other impartial and well-educated young women were lying.
Many years later, in 2019, he was convicted at the Old Bailey in a high profile case at which my daughter again gave evidence.
He had of course been practicing in the interim. We can only guess at the number of victims he assaulted between the two hearings, but I think it is fair to say it was likely to have been a lot.
What lessons do we draw? In Tutin's case it is very simple. The GMC is a trade union, which defends its members regardless. Its responsibilities to the public are a secondary issue, if that.
I see no evidence that it has changed its ways as a result of my daughter's case, or any of those you mention. I do not see any reason to think it will change unless forced to do so. It has a deeply entrenched posiiton and there is little pressure on it to show the same concern for you and me as it does for its members.
Please note, you are incorrect to describe the GMC as a trade union. It is not. The GMC is a statutory regulator. The medical trades unions are the BMA, the HCSA and a number of more recent breakaway. They have no regulatory power.
The GMC does have medical representation, but these are appointed by the government rather than elected by Doctors, and are not in a majority because of Lay representation.
There is a lot wrong with the GMC, but it is certainly not protective of doctors, indeed one of the recent major criticisms is the large number of doctors who commit suicide when up before it's Kafka-esque procedures.
I am sorry to hear of your daughters experiences, but to depict the GMC as a trade union protective of doctors is Putinesque in its departure from truth.
This is what I have been worrying about a lot, sometimes on here:
Bruno Maçães @MacaesBruno · 1h An argument I keep hearing: Putin will take the war beyond Ukraine as losing against Nato is more survivable than losing against Ukraine
As some of you know our son joined the RNLI some 9 months ago and recently qualified for sea going and indeed took the helm of all weather Shannon class lifeboat during an exercise last week
Last night about 12.30 he received a call and on arriving at the boathouse, the inshore crew (3) were told a young woman was in the sea off the shoreline and to expect it could be a recovery
They sped to the scene and our son's colleague jumped into the sea and between my son and his colleague they managed to get her into the boat despite her screaming to leave her
They took her to the shore where the coastguard, police and an ambulance waited and she was taken to hospital for a check up
On returning to the boathouse our son was told that as it was his first actual shout he has to buy all his colleagues a pint at their next training session
It goes without saying we are so proud of him and all his colleague in the RNLI, who risk themselves to save those in peril on the sea, and as they are volunteers we should all contribute to the cause of the RNLI
It also is a warning of just how serious mental health is and we should not joke about it as it can be very serious
I don't think many of us SERIOUSLY mock the issue of mental health, but well done to your son
Mental health is just health of the brain. Mocking ill people is simply stupid, no matter what they are ill with.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
No, not simply incorrect. The law cannot modify either reality, or the English language. If you like we can invent new categories - lwomen and lmen vs bwomen and bmen, where l is legal and b is birth or biological. a lman is just a bwoman with a piece of paper. Which is fine: for almost all purposes we can treat lwoman as = woman, but not where you start confusing the categories and insisting that lwomen do not have penises and are therefore incapable of rape. you would think that stipulation would be too obvious to need making, but we have just seen that it does.
And of course, it is too obvious. It is only "not obvious" because someone has seen it as a "loophole" to try to deny responsibility for a horrendous failure of care, in the hope that noone looks too closely and it goes away.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
I would relax in your certainties, grandad. At your grand old age there is no need to worry about all this new fangled gender stuff. It's a world gone mad. Of course it started with the legalisation of homosexuality (itself deeply unnatural) and went downhill from there.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
No, not simply incorrect. The law cannot modify either reality, or the English language. If you like we can invent new categories - lwomen and lmen vs bwomen and bmen, where l is legal and b is birth or biological. a lman is just a bwoman with a piece of paper. Which is fine: for almost all purposes we can treat lwoman as = woman, but not where you start confusing the categories and insisting that lwomen do not have penises and are therefore incapable of rape. you would think that stipulation would be too obvious to need making, but we have just seen that it does.
Yes
To me, and I reckon most people, a person still in possession of a cervix is a biological woman, just as a person still in possession of a penis is a biological man. If they change gender then they change GENDER, not their biological sex (unless and until they have reassignment surgery)
Only biological women have cervixes (apart from some fantastically rare freak cases); Keir "sanity" Starmer is insane
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
Yes, that's the way to do it. Along with highlighting the crazier and nastier examples of actual Wokeness "gone wrong"
And the Tories need to hammer this. Raise awareness
Didn’t single sex wards used to be a Labour campaigning point, or was that the tories?
How are single sex wards a help when all you need to do to get on one is say "I identify as a woman" and don't claim it won't happen as it already does for single sex prisons
The Equality Act specifically allows transgender people to be discriminated against on the grounds of sex in certain circumstances if it is a proportionate measure necessary to achieve a legitimate aim. Briefly, you can do so in order to have single sex wards, loos etc. The hospital was not obliged to allow a man claiming to be a woman onto a woman's ward. In doing so it breached its duty of care to the woman and compounded that initial error by then being less than honest when a crime occurred.
There is a conflict between good safeguarding practice and accepting people at their own estimation. The latter is a breach of good safeguarding practice. It would be good if this could be understood so that practical solutions could be found, rather than pretending that there are no issues.
Which was the point I made to foxy....it doesnt matter what the law says if the law isn't being used. Sadly it is far easier to make the decision not to apply it because the decision maker knows if they do they will get Stonewall or its like making a fuss and bringing court cases whereas if things go spoons people will try and help them cover up.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Law allows people to be excluded under the Equality act when there is good reason. It would be useful for hospitals, prisons, sporting clubs etc to be given guidance via examples as to what reasonable exclusions might be.
What proof do you have that they are ignorant of the law....the law does not say must be excluded it says can. You have no evidence the person who made the decision to allow people into a single sex ward because they claimed to be a woman did not know the law but decided not to apply it to polish their "woke" credentials. If the law said must discriminate then you might have a point.
They clearly failed in their duty of care because of a failure to apply the Equality Act correctly.
You are right, it is possible that they did this maliciously. I was being charitable by attributing it to ignorance.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
No, not simply incorrect. The law cannot modify either reality, or the English language. If you like we can invent new categories - lwomen and lmen vs bwomen and bmen, where l is legal and b is birth or biological. a lman is just a bwoman with a piece of paper. Which is fine: for almost all purposes we can treat lwoman as = woman, but not where you start confusing the categories and insisting that lwomen do not have penises and are therefore incapable of rape. you would think that stipulation would be too obvious to need making, but we have just seen that it does.
And of course, it is too obvious. It is only "not obvious" because someone has seen it as a "loophole" to try to deny responsibility for a horrendous failure of care, in the hope that noone looks too closely and it goes away.
Again, that is not what happened in this case, I don't know why you try to keep pretending that it is
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
The problem is that Woman has several definitions, and that they are not interchangeable. Stocks book "Material Girls" has a whole chapter on this.
Christo Grozev @christogrozev · 4h Lukashenko says "Putin is more alive than anyone else", "will survive us all", "in top shape", "never been more in his right mind", "will only catch a cold at our funerals"...
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
Yes, because the people asking the question are being disengenuous - they don’t care about the actual answer, they’re just setting a trap & intend to close it upon the answerer.
& the reality is that it’s impossible to give an answer that isn’t exlusionary, because nouns are never precisely defined objects. Think of something “simple” like, say, “chair”. Can you define what a chair is in a way that includes all the things that people refer to as chairs, but is not so completely fuzzy as to be useless? How about “sandwich” ? (cue the: is a hotdog a sandwich war...) You may claim, ah ha! but for people we can resort to genetics: Manliness is in the genes! Except not - there are people with XY genes out there who have had multiple children. Are they men now? What about intersex people ? And so on.
Trying to nail down what defines a “women” or a “man” is a quasi-fascistic act. It excludes more than it includes - we’re already seeing “manly”-appearing women being challenged in female toilets because for some people they’re crossing some arbitrary line about how feminine you have to be there, something that they report experiencing only in the last few years as anti-trans rhetoric has ramped up in this country.
This is a path that can only get worse from here & I don’t think it’s one we ought to be taking
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
And when it is over, everyone will claim that only 2 people supported the regime - Putin and one other guy who no-one can remember. Everyone else was in the Resistance.
Accurate polling in Russia isn't necessarily easy and conducting a major war like this is not like assessing the average government policy. The scale of Russia's commitment to Ukraine makes our intervention in Iraq looking piddling by comparison. Just think about the scale of casualties being inflicted and the economic damage to come. An autocracy may be better able to cope with this than a democracy but having a substantial minority of your own people against you is no small problem when you're dealing with war.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
I am one of the youngest members here, wokeism is irrelevant to me and all my friends. Leon is chatting nonsense as usual
This would be a reasonable point - if you had any friends. As you clearly don't, it somewhat devalues the rest of your commentary here. Sorry
Leon you go on holiday by yourself
To get away from all my friends and family
That is actually true. lol
Really? You used to say it was for work related reasons. All your best dildos were knapped while on holiday, apparently.
Inspired by Easter Island or staycations near Stonehenge?
I've only been to Stonehenge once. I took a cycle ride up from Salisbury and managed to get rather a nice photo of it from the fence line. It's the home screen for my left monitor.
I went many years ago when you could just wander over and see it close up.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
Why use Hitler as model when you've got Stalin? Ditching Marxist-Leninist communism, and doubling down on Great-Russian hyper-nationalism.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
Yes, that's the way to do it. Along with highlighting the crazier and nastier examples of actual Wokeness "gone wrong"
And the Tories need to hammer this. Raise awareness
Didn’t single sex wards used to be a Labour campaigning point, or was that the tories?
How are single sex wards a help when all you need to do to get on one is say "I identify as a woman" and don't claim it won't happen as it already does for single sex prisons
This is at the heart of the supposed or real distinction between sex and gender.
How do single sex wards stop murderers if all you have to do to get on a ward is to say "I'm not a murderer"?
I've thought about it a bit more. Maybe we shouldn't allow patients on wards because there is a tiny risk that one of those patients is a murderer? And people that identify as men are far more likely to be murderers than anyone else. So men definitely shouldn't allowed in hospital. Even as doctors. Look at Harold Shipman if you want a concrete example. Don't understand why we still train them in the profession. Too risky.
How amusing and insightful, but an actual woman has been actually, you know, raped, in at least one and allegedly half a dozen other known cases. Raped.
Let's all laugh at your witty little paradox.
No. The point is that this hospital failed to care for the patients who were it's responsibility at every stage, and then tried to cover it up, including trying to blame it on "woke" ideas of letting trans people into a women-only space. That's a ludicrous argument and they should be excoriated for it
Ultimately, the problem is an organisation with
- Zero tolerance for certain kinds of failure - An attempt to codify into rules human behaviour - Mindless implementation of rules. - A coverup attitude
I've tried introducing Just Culture. The fun bit is always after the complex explanations and training, when senior management ask "Where do the gallows go for subordinates who fuck up?"
It's much like Agile - where they often demand a Gantt chart, after say the organisation must "Go Agile!"
Human's are non-linear. That means that humans and human behaviour cannot be codified using simple, linear rule sets. You either have human discretion or results that are farcical and/or insane.
The rule set doesn't matter. Or the purpose.
I take it you've read Dekker's Just Culture
To me, Just Culture needs to be preceded, or at least accompanied by, psychological safety and a complete understanding of complex adaptive systems.
Was at a Dekker conference a few years back with about 200 safety professionals in the room from military through nuclear power through power distribution and rail systems. It was remarkable how few people in the room even knew what a complex adaptive system or emergent properties are.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
You know, for somebody calling me "intellectually incurious" you show a stubborn determination to avoid grasping a pretty simple argument.
Or is it you do get it and all you're doing is celebrating the ignorance and confusion around this question because you deduce it damages Labour? Hmm. Yes, I think I have that as slight favourite. Bright guy like you.
Cooper? Understandable from her. She's worked out it's a lose/lose because of the tedious bad faith twisting of any response.
But again it's easy. A woman is an adult of the female gender, the vast majority being born that way.
What's your "Tory" definition of a woman? Is it different?
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
If the Russians have suffered 7000 fatalities then it naturally follows that there will be thousands of casualties with horrendous injuries. There is some evidence mounting that a disproportionate number of the conscripts are from the remoter parts of Russia like Chechnya and Dagestan. One of the fears of traditionalist Russians has been the declining number of christians and a growing number of Muslims. Which is one reason why they are keen to re-unite with Ukraine. So the plan has been to use ethnic minority footsoldiers to go and kill slavic brothers in Ukraine. Whatever the logic of that is.
Or, more cynically, to send ethnic minority foot soldiers to be killed by their slavic brothers.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
Why use Hitler as model when you've got Stalin? Ditching Marxist-Leninist communism, and doubling down on Great-Russian hyper-nationalism.
......his article, "Fascism – Borderless and Red", described "national capitalism" as pre-empting the development of a "genuine, true, radically revolutionary and consistent, fascist fascism" in Russia. He believes that it was "by no means the racist and chauvinist aspects of National Socialism that determined the nature of its ideology. The excesses of this ideology in Germany are a matter exclusively of the Germans ... while Russian fascism is a combination of natural national conservatism with a passionate desire for true changes."[26] "Waffen-SS and especially the scientific sector of this organization, Ahnenerbe," was "an intellectual oasis in the framework of the National Socialist regime", according to him
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
Yes, because the people asking the question are being disengenuous - they don’t care about the actual answer, they’re just setting a trap & intend to close it upon the answerer.
& the reality is that it’s impossible to give an answer that isn’t exlusionary, because nouns are never precisely defined objects. Think of something “simple” like, say, “chair”. Can you define what a chair is in a way that includes all the things that people refer to as chairs, but is not so completely fuzzy as to be useless? How about “sandwich” ? (cue the: is a hotdog a sandwich war...) You may claim, ah ha! but for people we can resort to genetics: Manliness is in the genes! Except not - there are people with XY genes out there who have had multiple children. Are they men now? What about intersex people ? And so on.
Trying to nail down what defines a “women” or a “man” is a quasi-fascistic act. It excludes more than it includes - we’re already seeing “manly”-appearing women being challenged in female toilets because for some people they’re crossing some arbitrary line about how feminine you have to be there, something that they report experiencing only in the last few years as anti-trans rhetoric has ramped up in this country.
This is a path that can only get worse from here & I don’t think it’s one we ought to be taking
Well Labour needs to come up with some form of answer because it just makes them appear mad. They can't simply refuse to answer it forever
Same goes for the Tories, of course. Tho they have much less of a problem as they are not seen as the source of Wokeness
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
I agree. And that doesn’t contradict anything I said above.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
No, not simply incorrect. The law cannot modify either reality, or the English language. If you like we can invent new categories - lwomen and lmen vs bwomen and bmen, where l is legal and b is birth or biological. a lman is just a bwoman with a piece of paper. Which is fine: for almost all purposes we can treat lwoman as = woman, but not where you start confusing the categories and insisting that lwomen do not have penises and are therefore incapable of rape. you would think that stipulation would be too obvious to need making, but we have just seen that it does.
Yes
To me, and I reckon most people, a person still in possession of a cervix is a biological woman, just as a person still in possession of a penis is a biological man. If they change gender then they change GENDER, not their biological sex (unless and until they have reassignment surgery)
Only biological women have cervixes (apart from some fantastically rare freak cases); Keir "sanity" Starmer is insane
You are what you are born , all the pretending and surgery in the world does not change that fact.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
No, not simply incorrect. The law cannot modify either reality, or the English language. If you like we can invent new categories - lwomen and lmen vs bwomen and bmen, where l is legal and b is birth or biological. a lman is just a bwoman with a piece of paper. Which is fine: for almost all purposes we can treat lwoman as = woman, but not where you start confusing the categories and insisting that lwomen do not have penises and are therefore incapable of rape. you would think that stipulation would be too obvious to need making, but we have just seen that it does.
Yes
To me, and I reckon most people, a person still in possession of a cervix is a biological woman, just as a person still in possession of a penis is a biological man. If they change gender then they change GENDER, not their biological sex (unless and until they have reassignment surgery)
Only biological women have cervixes (apart from some fantastically rare freak cases); Keir "sanity" Starmer is insane
You are what you are born , all the pretending and surgery in the world does not change that fact.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
You know, for somebody calling me "intellectually incurious" you show a stubborn determination to avoid grasping a pretty simple argument.
Or is it you do get it and all you're doing is celebrating the ignorance and confusion around this question because you deduce it damages Labour? Hmm. Yes, I think I have that as slight favourite. Bright guy like you.
Cooper? Understandable from her. She's worked out it's a lose/lose because of the tedious bad faith twisting of any response.
But again it's easy. A woman is an adult of the female gender, the vast majority being born that way.
What's your "Tory" definition of a woman? Is it different?
"A woman is an adult of the female gender, the vast majority being born that way."
That's convoluted, but it's not a bad answer to the question, in the circumstances
Why didn't Cooper use it? Because there are plenty of Wokier people in her party who find fault
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
If the Russians have suffered 7000 fatalities then it naturally follows that there will be thousands of casualties with horrendous injuries. There is some evidence mounting that a disproportionate number of the conscripts are from the remoter parts of Russia like Chechnya and Dagestan. One of the fears of traditionalist Russians has been the declining number of christians and a growing number of Muslims. Which is one reason why they are keen to re-unite with Ukraine. So the plan has been to use ethnic minority footsoldiers to go and kill slavic brothers in Ukraine. Whatever the logic of that is.
Or, more cynically, to send ethnic minority foot soldiers to be killed by their slavic brothers.
Edit: Perhaps Putin is really Russia Trump
The pictures of captured Russian troops look European however.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
No, a woman who identifies as a man is a man with a cervix. Your question could get you cancelled out of a job in a UK university.
Who said anything about self identification?
It is a statement of fact that certain entities with cervixes are not women.
Perhaps you could do a Google of things with cervixes, and then look up the definition of woman.
"It is a statement of fact that certain entities with cervixes are not women."
Please demonstrate that fact. (It's nothing of the kind)
Well, the definition of 'woman' is 'adult female'. So, younger females are not women. And yet they have cervixes.
And then there's the animal kingdom. Female mammals do - I believe - have cervixes. And are not usually described - irrespective of self ID - as women.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
Yes, that's the way to do it. Along with highlighting the crazier and nastier examples of actual Wokeness "gone wrong"
And the Tories need to hammer this. Raise awareness
Didn’t single sex wards used to be a Labour campaigning point, or was that the tories?
How are single sex wards a help when all you need to do to get on one is say "I identify as a woman" and don't claim it won't happen as it already does for single sex prisons
This is at the heart of the supposed or real distinction between sex and gender.
How do single sex wards stop murderers if all you have to do to get on a ward is to say "I'm not a murderer"?
I've thought about it a bit more. Maybe we shouldn't allow patients on wards because there is a tiny risk that one of those patients is a murderer? And people that identify as men are far more likely to be murderers than anyone else. So men definitely shouldn't allowed in hospital. Even as doctors. Look at Harold Shipman if you want a concrete example. Don't understand why we still train them in the profession. Too risky.
How amusing and insightful, but an actual woman has been actually, you know, raped, in at least one and allegedly half a dozen other known cases. Raped.
Let's all laugh at your witty little paradox.
No. The point is that this hospital failed to care for the patients who were it's responsibility at every stage, and then tried to cover it up, including trying to blame it on "woke" ideas of letting trans people into a women-only space. That's a ludicrous argument and they should be excoriated for it
Ultimately, the problem is an organisation with
- Zero tolerance for certain kinds of failure - An attempt to codify into rules human behaviour - Mindless implementation of rules. - A coverup attitude
I've tried introducing Just Culture. The fun bit is always after the complex explanations and training, when senior management ask "Where do the gallows go for subordinates who fuck up?"
It's much like Agile - where they often demand a Gantt chart, after say the organisation must "Go Agile!"
Human's are non-linear. That means that humans and human behaviour cannot be codified using simple, linear rule sets. You either have human discretion or results that are farcical and/or insane.
The rule set doesn't matter. Or the purpose.
I take it you've read Dekker's Just Culture
To me, Just Culture needs to be preceded, or at least accompanied by, psychological safety and a complete understanding of complex adaptive systems.
Was at a Dekker conference a few years back with about 200 safety professionals in the room from military through nuclear power through power distribution and rail systems. It was remarkable how few people in the room even knew what a complex adaptive system or emergent properties are.
I would humbly suggest the issue with Just Culture is that it requires unlearning all the experience of a large number of people. Who think they were Born To Be In Charge. They nod politely at silly little ideas, before going back to Proper Managing (aka nailing victims to the wall).
IIRC it was Strathclyde Police who tried to seize the interview tapes from a CAA investigation - when someone tried to explain Just Culture to them, they simply couldn't understand.
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
Why use Hitler as model when you've got Stalin? Ditching Marxist-Leninist communism, and doubling down on Great-Russian hyper-nationalism.
The mythologising and religious aspects of Putin's ideology have striking similarities with Nazism, and his ideological "hero", Ivan Ilyin, was a bona fide fascist. Much of Putin's strategy is based around Ilyin's idea of a greater Russian empire.
Fascism is the absolutely the best first-order approximation here. Putin is a fascist.
Yes. He's the most obvious Fascist we've seen in global politics, for quite a time
I am one of the youngest members here, wokeism is irrelevant to me and all my friends. Leon is chatting nonsense as usual
This would be a reasonable point - if you had any friends. As you clearly don't, it somewhat devalues the rest of your commentary here. Sorry
Leon you go on holiday by yourself
To get away from all my friends and family
That is actually true. lol
Really? You used to say it was for work related reasons. All your best dildos were knapped while on holiday, apparently.
Inspired by Easter Island or staycations near Stonehenge?
I've only been to Stonehenge once. I took a cycle ride up from Salisbury and managed to get rather a nice photo of it from the fence line. It's the home screen for my left monitor.
I went many years ago when you could just wander over and see it close up.
If the Russians have suffered 7000 fatalities then it naturally follows that there will be thousands of casualties with horrendous injuries. There is some evidence mounting that a disproportionate number of the conscripts are from the remoter parts of Russia like Chechnya and Dagestan. One of the fears of traditionalist Russians has been the declining number of christians and a growing number of Muslims. Which is one reason why they are keen to re-unite with Ukraine. So the plan has been to use ethnic minority footsoldiers to go and kill slavic brothers in Ukraine. Whatever the logic of that is.
Or, more cynically, to send ethnic minority foot soldiers to be killed by their slavic brothers.
Edit: Perhaps Putin is really Russia Trump
The pictures of captured Russian troops look European however.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
The law is an invented thing. We can change it at will. But the existence of two sexes as the basis of sexual reproduction in mammals - that isn't something we can simply redefine out of existence by force of will. And for humans the essence of the sexual dimorphism is that women have cervixes and men do not.
Now sure, there are plenty of edge cases where it is a lot more complicated than that, and it turns out that sex hormones are at least as important as genetics, but, whatever. That is the essential physical reality for most people.
Most of the time it shouldn't matter. If it doesn't matter whether someone is a man or a woman, then it equally doesn't matter whether someone who is biologically female call themselves male. What difference does it make?
But, for the very small number of circumstances where it does matter I don't understand why we would use a human-created legal fiction as our determinant, rather than the more consequential biological reality.
I am one of the youngest members here, wokeism is irrelevant to me and all my friends. Leon is chatting nonsense as usual
This would be a reasonable point - if you had any friends. As you clearly don't, it somewhat devalues the rest of your commentary here. Sorry
Leon you go on holiday by yourself
To get away from all my friends and family
That is actually true. lol
Really? You used to say it was for work related reasons. All your best dildos were knapped while on holiday, apparently.
Inspired by Easter Island or staycations near Stonehenge?
I've only been to Stonehenge once. I took a cycle ride up from Salisbury and managed to get rather a nice photo of it from the fence line. It's the home screen for my left monitor.
I went many years ago when you could just wander over and see it close up.
Me too. It's rubbish.
Once you realise many of them were concreted in place by the Victorians, it loses a bit of its magic.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
Jesus
Do you seriously think that the "woman" in the nhs case was in any real sense trans?
Neither of your studies asked about assaults perpetrated *by* trans women, nor could expect to receive a useful answer if it did, but you cite them both as evidence of the assault/be assaulted imbalance. Why?
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
Why use Hitler as model when you've got Stalin? Ditching Marxist-Leninist communism, and doubling down on Great-Russian hyper-nationalism.
The mythologising and religious aspects of Putin's ideology have striking similarities with Nazism, and his ideological "hero", Ivan Ilyin, was a bona fide fascist. Much of Putin's strategy is based around Ilyin's idea of a greater Russian empire.
Fascism is the absolutely the best first-order approximation here. Putin is a fascist.
Yes. He's the most obvious Fascist we've seen in global politics, for quite a time
The ideologue of his party, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin, is a literal fascist. Admires the SS and talks of a "genuine, true, radically revolutionary and consistent, fascist fascism" in Russia.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
Yes, because the people asking the question are being disengenuous - they don’t care about the actual answer, they’re just setting a trap & intend to close it upon the answerer.
& the reality is that it’s impossible to give an answer that isn’t exlusionary, because nouns are never precisely defined objects. Think of something “simple” like, say, “chair”. Can you define what a chair is in a way that includes all the things that people refer to as chairs, but is not so completely fuzzy as to be useless? How about “sandwich” ? (cue the: is a hotdog a sandwich war...) You may claim, ah ha! but for people we can resort to genetics: Manliness is in the genes! Except not - there are people with XY genes out there who have had multiple children. Are they men now? What about intersex people ? And so on.
Trying to nail down what defines a “women” or a “man” is a quasi-fascistic act. It excludes more than it includes - we’re already seeing “manly”-appearing women being challenged in female toilets because for some people they’re crossing some arbitrary line about how feminine you have to be there, something that they report experiencing only in the last few years as anti-trans rhetoric has ramped up in this country.
This is a path that can only get worse from here & I don’t think it’s one we ought to be taking
Bollox to pardon the pun. It is very simple, you are the sex you are born full stop. You can do what you want , dress as you like, pretend all you want , etc but facts are chiels that winna ding
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
The law is an invented thing. We can change it at will. But the existence of two sexes as the basis of sexual reproduction in mammals - that isn't something we can simply redefine out of existence by force of will. And for humans the essence of the sexual dimorphism is that women have cervixes and men do not.
Now sure, there are plenty of edge cases where it is a lot more complicated than that, and it turns out that sex hormones are at least as important as genetics, but, whatever. That is the essential physical reality for most people.
Most of the time it shouldn't matter. If it doesn't matter whether someone is a man or a woman, then it equally doesn't matter whether someone who is biologically female call themselves male. What difference does it make?
But, for the very small number of circumstances where it does matter I don't understand why we would use a human-created legal fiction as our determinant, rather than the more consequential biological reality.
Why would we do that? What is the advantage?
It's a bit weird being so obsessed with who has a cervix and who doesn't, to be honest.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
I agree. And that doesn’t contradict anything I said above.
I'm not making light of this issue, but it is a measure of its hideous complexity that I don't actually know - for sure - what a "trans woman" is
Is it a person born a man who now legally identifies as a woman? So then, surely, she is just a "woman", at least in Woke terms? Or is it a person born a man in the surgical/social act of transitioning?
Or is it a woman who WANTS to transition to being a man? Or what?
This is not facetious. This whole argument has become so fucking stupid everything is unclear
Distressing postings from Andrew Neil. We should remember the RU kids who are being forced to carry out this outrage by mad vlad.
What did he say?
There ar two paths in this with regards to the average Russian. My view is that we should ruin all of their days - the idea being that they'll go home and kill the dork. The other theme is to embrace all Russians beyond a poison few. I can't see how that works despite it being my initial thought.
Zelensky showed the right approach when he told Russian soldiers that those who surrendered or captured would be treated with respect. But Ukraine would make every effort to kill those who fought.
If he can say that while his country is being devastated, it shouldn’t be so tough for us. Neither embrace nor ruin of Russia is an answer.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
Yes, because the people asking the question are being disengenuous - they don’t care about the actual answer, they’re just setting a trap & intend to close it upon the answerer.
& the reality is that it’s impossible to give an answer that isn’t exlusionary, because nouns are never precisely defined objects. Think of something “simple” like, say, “chair”. Can you define what a chair is in a way that includes all the things that people refer to as chairs, but is not so completely fuzzy as to be useless? How about “sandwich” ? (cue the: is a hotdog a sandwich war...) You may claim, ah ha! but for people we can resort to genetics: Manliness is in the genes! Except not - there are people with XY genes out there who have had multiple children. Are they men now? What about intersex people ? And so on.
Trying to nail down what defines a “women” or a “man” is a quasi-fascistic act. It excludes more than it includes - we’re already seeing “manly”-appearing women being challenged in female toilets because for some people they’re crossing some arbitrary line about how feminine you have to be there, something that they report experiencing only in the last few years as anti-trans rhetoric has ramped up in this country.
This is a path that can only get worse from here & I don’t think it’s one we ought to be taking
Bollox to pardon the pun. It is very simple, you are the sex you are born full stop. You can do what you want , dress as you like, pretend all you want , etc but facts are chiels that winna ding
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
Why use Hitler as model when you've got Stalin? Ditching Marxist-Leninist communism, and doubling down on Great-Russian hyper-nationalism.
The mythologising and religious aspects of Putin's ideology have striking similarities with Nazism, and his ideological "hero", Ivan Ilyin, was a bona fide fascist. Much of Putin's strategy is based around Ilyin's idea of a greater Russian empire.
Fascism is the absolutely the best first-order approximation here. Putin is a fascist.
Yes. He's the most obvious Fascist we've seen in global politics, for quite a time
The ideologue of his party, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin, is a literal fascist. Admires the SS and talks of a "genuine, true, radically revolutionary and consistent, fascist fascism" in Russia.
Dugin wrote a book a few years ago called "Ukraine: My War".
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
The law is an invented thing. We can change it at will. But the existence of two sexes as the basis of sexual reproduction in mammals - that isn't something we can simply redefine out of existence by force of will. And for humans the essence of the sexual dimorphism is that women have cervixes and men do not.
Now sure, there are plenty of edge cases where it is a lot more complicated than that, and it turns out that sex hormones are at least as important as genetics, but, whatever. That is the essential physical reality for most people.
Most of the time it shouldn't matter. If it doesn't matter whether someone is a man or a woman, then it equally doesn't matter whether someone who is biologically female call themselves male. What difference does it make?
But, for the very small number of circumstances where it does matter I don't understand why we would use a human-created legal fiction as our determinant, rather than the more consequential biological reality.
Why would we do that? What is the advantage?
Point of order, it's entirely possible now to create offspring with fewer than or more than two biological parents.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
No, a woman who identifies as a man is a man with a cervix. Your question could get you cancelled out of a job in a UK university.
Who said anything about self identification?
It is a statement of fact that certain entities with cervixes are not women.
Perhaps you could do a Google of things with cervixes, and then look up the definition of woman.
"It is a statement of fact that certain entities with cervixes are not women."
Please demonstrate that fact. (It's nothing of the kind)
Well, the definition of 'woman' is 'adult female'. So, younger females are not women. And yet they have cervixes.
And then there's the animal kingdom. Female mammals do - I believe - have cervixes. And are not usually described - irrespective of self ID - as women.
Younger females, of course they're women. You can be a woman ferrett.
May I just add that my daughter was sexually interfered with by our local GP, Dr Alan Tutin, when she was sixteen. It was a fairly minor case and I never heard anything about it until about seven years later when she was one of a number of women who voluntairly submitted evidence to the GMC in support of another local girl who had been much more seriously assaulted by him.
The GMC threw the case out, which surprised me because it implied that my daughter and numerous other impartial and well-educated young women were lying.
Many years later, in 2019, he was convicted at the Old Bailey in a high profile case at which my daughter again gave evidence.
He had of course been practicing in the interim. We can only guess at the number of victims he assaulted between the two hearings, but I think it is fair to say it was likely to have been a lot.
What lessons do we draw? In Tutin's case it is very simple. The GMC is a trade union, which defends its members regardless. Its responsibilities to the public are a secondary issue, if that.
I see no evidence that it has changed its ways as a result of my daughter's case, or any of those you mention. I do not see any reason to think it will change unless forced to do so. It has a deeply entrenched posiiton and there is little pressure on it to show the same concern for you and me as it does for its members.
Please note, you are incorrect to describe the GMC as a trade union. It is not. The GMC is a statutory regulator. The medical trades unions are the BMA, the HCSA and a number of more recent breakaway. They have no regulatory power.
The GMC does have medical representation, but these are appointed by the government rather than elected by Doctors, and are not in a majority because of Lay representation.
There is a lot wrong with the GMC, but it is certainly not protective of doctors, indeed one of the recent major criticisms is the large number of doctors who commit suicide when up before it's Kafka-esque procedures.
I am sorry to hear of your daughters experiences, but to depict the GMC as a trade union protective of doctors is Putinesque in its departure from truth.
Noted with thanks and I stand corrected, but the fact remains that the hearing she attended more than twenty years ago dismissed her evidence and also that of a number of other perfectly sensible and mature young women. Their evidence was not accepted. They preferred Dr Tutin's instead.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
Jesus
Do you seriously think that the "woman" in the nhs case was in any real sense trans?
Neither of your studies asked about assaults perpetrated *by* trans women, nor could expect to receive a useful answer if it did, but you cite them both as evidence of the assault/be assaulted imbalance. Why?
Why? Because the implication by some of you on here is that all trans people are nasty perverts and potential rapists, when in actual fact the vast majority are far more likely to be victims of assault and sexual assault, statistically far more so than women born in that gender. They are deserving of protection too. Protections they might not receive if they are forced into "male" spaces.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
Now we get all the bollox made up statistics, squirrel look over there crap. You moron it is not about transwomen it is about men pretending they are women so they can get into women's safe places.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
I agree. And that doesn’t contradict anything I said above.
I'm not making light of this issue, but it is a measure of its hideous complexity that I don't actually know - for sure - what a "trans woman" is
Is it a person born a man who now legally identifies as a woman? So then, surely, she is just a "woman", at least in Woke terms? Or is it a person born a man in the surgical/social act of transitioning?
Or is it a woman who WANTS to transition to being a man? Or what?
This is not facetious. This whole argument has become so fucking stupid everything is unclear
I agree with that too. I basically think “call yourself what you want, tell me what I should call you and I will because I don’t want to be rude. But where it really matters, let’s have safeguards for vulnerable people”. Of course “vulnerable people” will mean safeguards for the “trans” people too, but we all know it mostly means some spaces unique to women with lady parts..
Basically a policy of live and let live, but accepting the reality that one or two narrowly defined spaces won’t accept trans women who haven’t had surgery.
Edit - I am probably being harsh on some men who think otherwise, but I can’t imagine ever being fussed about having a “man only” place. I accept having a men’s changed room because women would feel uncomfortable if I was with them, not the other way round. Which is an interesting psychological difference.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
Jesus
Do you seriously think that the "woman" in the nhs case was in any real sense trans?
Neither of your studies asked about assaults perpetrated *by* trans women, nor could expect to receive a useful answer if it did, but you cite them both as evidence of the assault/be assaulted imbalance. Why?
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
Now we get all the bollox made up statistics, squirrel look over there crap. You moron it is not about transwomen it is about men pretending they are women so they can get into women's safe places.
Are you this angry about men pretending to be police officers to abuse women?
I am one of the youngest members here, wokeism is irrelevant to me and all my friends. Leon is chatting nonsense as usual
This would be a reasonable point - if you had any friends. As you clearly don't, it somewhat devalues the rest of your commentary here. Sorry
Leon you go on holiday by yourself
To get away from all my friends and family
That is actually true. lol
Really? You used to say it was for work related reasons. All your best dildos were knapped while on holiday, apparently.
Inspired by Easter Island or staycations near Stonehenge?
I've only been to Stonehenge once. I took a cycle ride up from Salisbury and managed to get rather a nice photo of it from the fence line. It's the home screen for my left monitor.
I went many years ago when you could just wander over and see it close up.
Me too. It's rubbish.
Once you realise many of them were concreted in place by the Victorians, it loses a bit of its magic.
Almost every significant megalithic monument on earth has been, in some manner, restored
Avebury to Carnac to Newgrange
The genius of the Stonehenge restorers was not to overdo it, so it still looks like a romantic ruin; In Newgrange, by contrast, they went way over the top and it looks like a newbuild and has the poetry of a Barratt Home
This again underlines the uniqueness of Gobekli and now Karahan Tepe. Buried for 10,000 years. No need to restore them as they were safely hidden under sand, entirely intact. It is what it is, and it is marvellous to our eyes
I am one of the youngest members here, wokeism is irrelevant to me and all my friends. Leon is chatting nonsense as usual
This would be a reasonable point - if you had any friends. As you clearly don't, it somewhat devalues the rest of your commentary here. Sorry
Leon you go on holiday by yourself
To get away from all my friends and family
That is actually true. lol
Really? You used to say it was for work related reasons. All your best dildos were knapped while on holiday, apparently.
Inspired by Easter Island or staycations near Stonehenge?
I've only been to Stonehenge once. I took a cycle ride up from Salisbury and managed to get rather a nice photo of it from the fence line. It's the home screen for my left monitor.
I went many years ago when you could just wander over and see it close up.
May I just add that my daughter was sexually interfered with by our local GP, Dr Alan Tutin, when she was sixteen. It was a fairly minor case and I never heard anything about it until about seven years later when she was one of a number of women who voluntairly submitted evidence to the GMC in support of another local girl who had been much more seriously assaulted by him.
The GMC threw the case out, which surprised me because it implied that my daughter and numerous other impartial and well-educated young women were lying.
Many years later, in 2019, he was convicted at the Old Bailey in a high profile case at which my daughter again gave evidence.
He had of course been practicing in the interim. We can only guess at the number of victims he assaulted between the two hearings, but I think it is fair to say it was likely to have been a lot.
What lessons do we draw? In Tutin's case it is very simple. The GMC is a trade union, which defends its members regardless. Its responsibilities to the public are a secondary issue, if that.
I see no evidence that it has changed its ways as a result of my daughter's case, or any of those you mention. I do not see any reason to think it will change unless forced to do so. It has a deeply entrenched posiiton and there is little pressure on it to show the same concern for you and me as it does for its members.
Please note, you are incorrect to describe the GMC as a trade union. It is not. The GMC is a statutory regulator. The medical trades unions are the BMA, the HCSA and a number of more recent breakaway. They have no regulatory power.
The GMC does have medical representation, but these are appointed by the government rather than elected by Doctors, and are not in a majority because of Lay representation.
There is a lot wrong with the GMC, but it is certainly not protective of doctors, indeed one of the recent major criticisms is the large number of doctors who commit suicide when up before it's Kafka-esque procedures.
I am sorry to hear of your daughters experiences, but to depict the GMC as a trade union protective of doctors is Putinesque in its departure from truth.
Thanks for the useful correction - it’s an indication that most of us who opine on the NHS have quite sketchy knowledge outside of our direct interactions with it. To what extent, though, do you think the medical omertà which Peter describes still prevails ?
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
You know, for somebody calling me "intellectually incurious" you show a stubborn determination to avoid grasping a pretty simple argument.
Or is it you do get it and all you're doing is celebrating the ignorance and confusion around this question because you deduce it damages Labour? Hmm. Yes, I think I have that as slight favourite. Bright guy like you.
Cooper? Understandable from her. She's worked out it's a lose/lose because of the tedious bad faith twisting of any response.
But again it's easy. A woman is an adult of the female gender, the vast majority being born that way.
What's your "Tory" definition of a woman? Is it different?
"A woman is an adult of the female gender, the vast majority being born that way."
That's convoluted, but it's not a bad answer to the question, in the circumstances
Why didn't Cooper use it? Because there are plenty of Wokier people in her party who find fault
If you say that you’ll definitely attract the GC crowd who will descend like a crowd (flock?) of wasps too. MPs have enough on their plate as it is frankly without dealing with yet another Twitter firestorm.
Honestly, there is probably no right answer to a trap question like this, so best not to answer it at all. You know it’s not being asked in good faith after all - the whole point is to take whatever answer you happen to make and use it as a wedge to hammer inbetween party members.
I am one of the youngest members here, wokeism is irrelevant to me and all my friends. Leon is chatting nonsense as usual
This would be a reasonable point - if you had any friends. As you clearly don't, it somewhat devalues the rest of your commentary here. Sorry
Leon you go on holiday by yourself
To get away from all my friends and family
That is actually true. lol
Really? You used to say it was for work related reasons. All your best dildos were knapped while on holiday, apparently.
Inspired by Easter Island or staycations near Stonehenge?
I've only been to Stonehenge once. I took a cycle ride up from Salisbury and managed to get rather a nice photo of it from the fence line. It's the home screen for my left monitor.
I went many years ago when you could just wander over and see it close up.
Me too. It's rubbish.
Yes just some big stones
I'm sure Mrs G said that in a far more admiring tone Malc,
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
Why use Hitler as model when you've got Stalin? Ditching Marxist-Leninist communism, and doubling down on Great-Russian hyper-nationalism.
......his article, "Fascism – Borderless and Red", described "national capitalism" as pre-empting the development of a "genuine, true, radically revolutionary and consistent, fascist fascism" in Russia. He believes that it was "by no means the racist and chauvinist aspects of National Socialism that determined the nature of its ideology. The excesses of this ideology in Germany are a matter exclusively of the Germans ... while Russian fascism is a combination of natural national conservatism with a passionate desire for true changes."[26] "Waffen-SS and especially the scientific sector of this organization, Ahnenerbe," was "an intellectual oasis in the framework of the National Socialist regime", according to him
I do think we have a tendency to revert to the 'F' word too easily. I wonder if part of the problem is that unlike so much of Europe Russia did not get its fingers burnt by nationalism in the 20th century. Indeed with the great patriotic war it might even have been seen as part of the answer.
I do wonder in a way whether having a strong identity of English, Scottish Welsh has helped us somewhat on this island. It's meant that whilst for pragmatic reasons a unitary state has emerged we've had a fairly weak (if persistent) form of national identity.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
The law is an invented thing. We can change it at will. But the existence of two sexes as the basis of sexual reproduction in mammals - that isn't something we can simply redefine out of existence by force of will. And for humans the essence of the sexual dimorphism is that women have cervixes and men do not.
Now sure, there are plenty of edge cases where it is a lot more complicated than that, and it turns out that sex hormones are at least as important as genetics, but, whatever. That is the essential physical reality for most people.
Most of the time it shouldn't matter. If it doesn't matter whether someone is a man or a woman, then it equally doesn't matter whether someone who is biologically female call themselves male. What difference does it make?
But, for the very small number of circumstances where it does matter I don't understand why we would use a human-created legal fiction as our determinant, rather than the more consequential biological reality.
Why would we do that? What is the advantage?
It's a bit weird being so obsessed with who has a cervix and who doesn't, to be honest.
But the obsession started on the Woke left and remains most fervent over there, where the lunatics are. See the Trans-Terf wars, see the online abuse of lefty J K Rowling. It's red on red internecine lefty weirdness.
It's just that other people have noticed, and it is now starting to affect ordinary, non-political people
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
No, not simply incorrect. The law cannot modify either reality, or the English language. If you like we can invent new categories - lwomen and lmen vs bwomen and bmen, where l is legal and b is birth or biological. a lman is just a bwoman with a piece of paper. Which is fine: for almost all purposes we can treat lwoman as = woman, but not where you start confusing the categories and insisting that lwomen do not have penises and are therefore incapable of rape. you would think that stipulation would be too obvious to need making, but we have just seen that it does.
Yes
To me, and I reckon most people, a person still in possession of a cervix is a biological woman, just as a person still in possession of a penis is a biological man. If they change gender then they change GENDER, not their biological sex (unless and until they have reassignment surgery)
Only biological women have cervixes (apart from some fantastically rare freak cases); Keir "sanity" Starmer is insane
You are what you are born , all the pretending and surgery in the world does not change that fact.
You were born British right?
Not a chance , Scottish. No such thing as British unless you apply it to the Isles.
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
Why use Hitler as model when you've got Stalin? Ditching Marxist-Leninist communism, and doubling down on Great-Russian hyper-nationalism.
The mythologising and religious aspects of Putin's ideology have striking similarities with Nazism, and his ideological "hero", Ivan Ilyin, was a bona fide fascist. Much of Putin's strategy is based around Ilyin's idea of a greater Russian empire.
Fascism is the absolutely the best first-order approximation here. Putin is a fascist.
Yes. He's the most obvious Fascist we've seen in global politics, for quite a time
The ideologue of his party, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin, is a literal fascist. Admires the SS and talks of a "genuine, true, radically revolutionary and consistent, fascist fascism" in Russia.
Dugin wrote a book a few years ago called "Ukraine: My War".
Whenever you delve into the ideological roots of Putin its like reading Mein Kampf. The disgusting brutality and lust for dominance is all there in black and white. Russian fascism needs to be excised from Russia like a cancer. The idea we should give an "out" to Putin here is brainless.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
I agree. And that doesn’t contradict anything I said above.
I'm not making light of this issue, but it is a measure of its hideous complexity that I don't actually know - for sure - what a "trans woman" is
Is it a person born a man who now legally identifies as a woman? So then, surely, she is just a "woman", at least in Woke terms? Or is it a person born a man in the surgical/social act of transitioning?
Or is it a woman who WANTS to transition to being a man? Or what?
This is not facetious. This whole argument has become so fucking stupid everything is unclear
I don't think this complex.
Some people have gender reassignment surgery, and go through horrendous hormone treatments, and no particular threat to people of their new sex. These people get to take on their new sex, and if you wish to call them transgender you can.
If you have not gone through this process (but are on the path), then you get to call yourself 'transitioning'. They do not get access to safe spaces for their non-birth gender - such as prisons, bathrooms, changing rooms, or the like.
I would suggest that we encourage a small number of bathrooms, etc., as private spaces where those who have modesty issues or are transitioning and feel uncomfortable can use.
I am one of the youngest members here, wokeism is irrelevant to me and all my friends. Leon is chatting nonsense as usual
This would be a reasonable point - if you had any friends. As you clearly don't, it somewhat devalues the rest of your commentary here. Sorry
Leon you go on holiday by yourself
To get away from all my friends and family
That is actually true. lol
Really? You used to say it was for work related reasons. All your best dildos were knapped while on holiday, apparently.
Inspired by Easter Island or staycations near Stonehenge?
I've only been to Stonehenge once. I took a cycle ride up from Salisbury and managed to get rather a nice photo of it from the fence line. It's the home screen for my left monitor.
I went many years ago when you could just wander over and see it close up.
Me too. It's rubbish.
Once you realise many of them were concreted in place by the Victorians, it loses a bit of its magic.
Almost every significant megalithic monument on earth has been, in some manner, restored
Avebury to Carnac to Newgrange
The genius of the Stonehenge restorers was not to overdo it, so it still looks like a romantic ruin; In Newgrange, by contrast, they went way over the top and it looks like a newbuild and has the poetry of a Barratt Home
This again underlines the uniqueness of Gobekli and now Karahan Tepe. Buried for 10,000 years. No need to restore them as they were safely hidden under sand, entirely intact. It is what it is, and it is marvellous to our eyes
That’s fair, and maybe it means I am wrong to cynically assume we can’t know where they originally stood?
Whether Putin is a neo-Commie or neo-Nazi is IMHO arguing about semantics. Essence is pretty much the same, esp. if you substitute "Russian" for "Aryan" both terms being equally bullshit in way they are misused.
Of course many perceive Communism to be more benign that Fascism. Load of horseshit IMHO.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
No, not simply incorrect. The law cannot modify either reality, or the English language. If you like we can invent new categories - lwomen and lmen vs bwomen and bmen, where l is legal and b is birth or biological. a lman is just a bwoman with a piece of paper. Which is fine: for almost all purposes we can treat lwoman as = woman, but not where you start confusing the categories and insisting that lwomen do not have penises and are therefore incapable of rape. you would think that stipulation would be too obvious to need making, but we have just seen that it does.
Yes
To me, and I reckon most people, a person still in possession of a cervix is a biological woman, just as a person still in possession of a penis is a biological man. If they change gender then they change GENDER, not their biological sex (unless and until they have reassignment surgery)
Only biological women have cervixes (apart from some fantastically rare freak cases); Keir "sanity" Starmer is insane
You are what you are born , all the pretending and surgery in the world does not change that fact.
You were born British right?
Not a chance , Scottish. No such thing as British unless you apply it to the Isles.
Nah sorry, you are what you are born mate. Suck it up.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
The law is an invented thing. We can change it at will. But the existence of two sexes as the basis of sexual reproduction in mammals - that isn't something we can simply redefine out of existence by force of will. And for humans the essence of the sexual dimorphism is that women have cervixes and men do not.
Now sure, there are plenty of edge cases where it is a lot more complicated than that, and it turns out that sex hormones are at least as important as genetics, but, whatever. That is the essential physical reality for most people.
Most of the time it shouldn't matter. If it doesn't matter whether someone is a man or a woman, then it equally doesn't matter whether someone who is biologically female call themselves male. What difference does it make?
But, for the very small number of circumstances where it does matter I don't understand why we would use a human-created legal fiction as our determinant, rather than the more consequential biological reality.
Why would we do that? What is the advantage?
It's a bit weird being so obsessed with who has a cervix and who doesn't, to be honest.
Well, like I say, most of the time it doesn't matter. But, despite not being a rapist, there are a number of situations when I am excluded on the basis of being a man, for the safety of women or girls. And that's an example of a time when possession, or otherwise, of a cervix does matter. Not because trans people are necessarily more likely to be abusers - just as my exclusion says nothing about my personal likelihood of being an abuser - but because we have found it sadly necessary to take such steps to protect women and girls from the very real risk of assault from men (aka people who don't have a cervix).
Why would we erode such protections in favour of a legal fiction?
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
Yes, that's the way to do it. Along with highlighting the crazier and nastier examples of actual Wokeness "gone wrong"
And the Tories need to hammer this. Raise awareness
Didn’t single sex wards used to be a Labour campaigning point, or was that the tories?
How are single sex wards a help when all you need to do to get on one is say "I identify as a woman" and don't claim it won't happen as it already does for single sex prisons
Except that self declaration is a legitimate reason to discriminate even with gender self ID under the 2010 Equality act, much as @DavidL suggested earlier, provided there is a sound reason
"145. The Equality Act contains a number of limited circumstances, also known as exceptions, where discrimination against someone with a protected characteristic is permitted; this includes exceptions for gender reassignment. These exceptions include sport, single-sex and separate-sex services, genuine occupational requirements, marriage and insurance.237
146. When the Government first launched its consultation into the reform of the GRA, it stated that it did “not intend to make any amendments to the existing exceptions in the Equality Act 2010 associated with the ‘gender reassignment’ protected characteristic’”.238"
Yep. There's a yawning disconnect between the lurid tabloidy discourse on this and what the actual GRA reforms would likely mean in practice if they were to be implemented.
I suggest you read the proposed GRA reforms in Scotland and understand how they impact on the provisions of the Equality Act. In practice they will have quite an impact contrary to what you seem to think.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
I seriously doubt any of them are being assaulted by women. That information is F all to do what the discussion is.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
The law is an invented thing. We can change it at will. But the existence of two sexes as the basis of sexual reproduction in mammals - that isn't something we can simply redefine out of existence by force of will. And for humans the essence of the sexual dimorphism is that women have cervixes and men do not.
Now sure, there are plenty of edge cases where it is a lot more complicated than that, and it turns out that sex hormones are at least as important as genetics, but, whatever. That is the essential physical reality for most people.
Most of the time it shouldn't matter. If it doesn't matter whether someone is a man or a woman, then it equally doesn't matter whether someone who is biologically female call themselves male. What difference does it make?
But, for the very small number of circumstances where it does matter I don't understand why we would use a human-created legal fiction as our determinant, rather than the more consequential biological reality.
Why would we do that? What is the advantage?
It's a bit weird being so obsessed with who has a cervix and who doesn't, to be honest.
But the obsession started on the Woke left and remains most fervent over there, where the lunatics are. See the Trans-Terf wars, see the online abuse of lefty J K Rowling. It's red on red internecine lefty weirdness.
It's just that other people have noticed, and it is now starting to affect ordinary, non-political people
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
But it sounds mad to everyone else. Which isn't good for Keir "Sanity" Starmer. That's the point
And this?
"Yvette Cooper has become the second shadow cabinet minister in two days to decline to define what a woman is, describing the subject as a “rabbit hole”.
The shadow home secretary refused three times to spell out a definition"
You know, for somebody calling me "intellectually incurious" you show a stubborn determination to avoid grasping a pretty simple argument.
Or is it you do get it and all you're doing is celebrating the ignorance and confusion around this question because you deduce it damages Labour? Hmm. Yes, I think I have that as slight favourite. Bright guy like you.
Cooper? Understandable from her. She's worked out it's a lose/lose because of the tedious bad faith twisting of any response.
But again it's easy. A woman is an adult of the female gender, the vast majority being born that way.
What's your "Tory" definition of a woman? Is it different?
"A woman is an adult of the female gender, the vast majority being born that way."
That's convoluted, but it's not a bad answer to the question, in the circumstances
Why didn't Cooper use it? Because there are plenty of Wokier people in her party who find fault
If you say that you’ll definitely attract the GC crowd who will descend like a crowd (flock?) of wasps too. MPs have enough on their plate as it is frankly without dealing with yet another Twitter firestorm.
Honestly, there is probably no right answer to a trap question like this, so best not to answer it at all. You know it’s not being asked in good faith after all - the whole point is to take whatever answer you happen to make and use it as a wedge to hammer inbetween party members.
Practically speaking, Labour needs to find an answer, tho. Literally: an answer to this question. Because it will get asked repeatedly - and the more they refuse to say anything the more journalists will sense weakness and strife, which they love
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
I agree. And that doesn’t contradict anything I said above.
I'm not making light of this issue, but it is a measure of its hideous complexity that I don't actually know - for sure - what a "trans woman" is
Is it a person born a man who now legally identifies as a woman? So then, surely, she is just a "woman", at least in Woke terms? Or is it a person born a man in the surgical/social act of transitioning?
Or is it a woman who WANTS to transition to being a man? Or what?
This is not facetious. This whole argument has become so fucking stupid everything is unclear
I don't think this complex.
Some people have gender reassignment surgery, and go through horrendous hormone treatments, and no particular threat to people of their new sex. These people get to take on their new sex, and if you wish to call them transgender you can.
If you have not gone through this process (but are on the path), then you get to call yourself 'transitioning'. They do not get access to safe spaces for their non-birth gender - such as prisons, bathrooms, changing rooms, or the like.
I would suggest that we encourage a small number of bathrooms, etc., as private spaces where those who have modesty issues or are transitioning and feel uncomfortable can use.
Problem solved.
Quite.
That, plus reserve womens sport for birth women, and beef up safeguards to ensure the young don't do anything really, really irreversible until they are really, really sure about it, and problem 100% solved.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
No, a woman who identifies as a man is a man with a cervix. Your question could get you cancelled out of a job in a UK university.
Who said anything about self identification?
It is a statement of fact that certain entities with cervixes are not women.
Perhaps you could do a Google of things with cervixes, and then look up the definition of woman.
"It is a statement of fact that certain entities with cervixes are not women."
Please demonstrate that fact. (It's nothing of the kind)
Well, the definition of 'woman' is 'adult female'. So, younger females are not women. And yet they have cervixes.
And then there's the animal kingdom. Female mammals do - I believe - have cervixes. And are not usually described - irrespective of self ID - as women.
Younger females, of course they're women. You can be a woman ferrett.
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
Reality trumps the law. If Parliament passed a statute saying that the Sun orbits the Earth, the Earth would continue to orbit the Sun.
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
Why does no one ever want to compromise on this? I do not believe trans women are women or trans men are men and I never will. However I also don’t want to be rude or offensive to them, and if they wish to present themselves that way then all power to them. I won’t attack them and I’ll protect them from those who do.
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
A 2015 study showed that trans women are far more likely to be the victims of sexual assault than they are to commit sexual assault. 37% of trans women are likely to be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, while 40% have been physically assaulted.
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
I agree. And that doesn’t contradict anything I said above.
I'm not making light of this issue, but it is a measure of its hideous complexity that I don't actually know - for sure - what a "trans woman" is
Is it a person born a man who now legally identifies as a woman? So then, surely, she is just a "woman", at least in Woke terms? Or is it a person born a man in the surgical/social act of transitioning?
Or is it a woman who WANTS to transition to being a man? Or what?
This is not facetious. This whole argument has become so fucking stupid everything is unclear
We might need to see the full context. Contrasting how we can just pop down the polling station and change our nation's direction, the Ukrainians try that and have to face a Russian invasion.
The full context appears to include the war on woke.
I really think Tory strategists try too hard on the war on woke stuff. It comes across as distraction, when all they would need to do is highlight some of the more extreme and ridiculous instances of people quibbling about pronouns or cancelling things etc, and I think the general public can and does apply common sense on the ridiculous element. The Tories don't need to fan that fire, and the extent they do can undermine it by turning what for many public might be just a common sense issue, into a political one which will push people to take a partisan side instead.
Disagree
Most people are sensible about politics and therefore WAAAAAAY less well-informed than us geeks. And, as we see, many of the geeks on here don't understand Woke, or don't want to understand it, some refuse to believe it exists (which is actually understandable, in a way, because elements of it are so truly bizarre. It's a bit like the Victorians who refused to believe the first descriptions of a duck billed platypus)
Therefore if you want to raise awareness and get people as angry as they should be, you have to be pretty damn brutal and heavy handed. The Republicans have shown that waging the Culture Wars can win elections, if you go in hard enough. They won Virginia thereby
Someone should ask Starmer if a rape took place in that hospital. Because of his Wokeness, he won't be able to answer coherently. A well timed bomb like that could, by itself, win the GE for the Tories, by turning millions of despairing women away from Labour
Starmer is a reasonable guy, but his party membership is batshit insane and Starmer needs them. So the Tories should force him to answer questions that divides the public from the Labour activists.
- Was there a rape at this hospital? - Will you take off the income threshold for immigration? - Do you believe Diane Abbott's past comments are racist?
I do wish people would stop talking horseshit.
WTF do the likes of you or fruity Leon or any of the umpteen clueless reactionary dingbats on here know about our party's membership or about racism or about transgender people.
Fuck all. Absolutely sweet fuck all. C'mon. Seriously.
Feel a Covid relapse coming on now. Thanks a bunch.
If you were less narrowminded, incurious and intellectually middlebrow, you'd realise we are talking sense, and that, if you actually listened to us, Labour would benefit. This is a real issue and it is now getting real traction
It has generated more comments than any other story in the paper today, and they are still coming. And most of them are incensed and angry, and shouting at the Lefty Woke people. ie Labour. Most of them are women
Woke is finally emerging into the daylight of public awareness, via stories like this. There is much danger here for The UK Left, just see what is happening to the Dems in America
I look forward to 'NHS scandals under the Tories' being pushed as a reason to re-elect the Tories.
Along with 'don't vote for ex-DPP Sir Keir Sanity Starmer cos he's a crazy wokie'.
It'll be quite the campaign.
Would that be the same as this Keir "Sanity" Starmer? -
Keir Starmer: "It's wrong to say 'only women have a cervix"
Oh FFS! Not this again. One more time - please bookmark.
There are thousands of people in this country born female who have legally transitioned to male. Legally transitioned. They've been through the process and have the certificate. The GRC. The Gender Recognition Certificate. They are therefore legally male. They are men in the eyes of the law. Adults of the male gender. This is the whole point of the gender transition process!
But they will have a cervix. Therefore it IS wrong to say only women have a cervix. Not as in evil or bigoted, but just simply incorrect. So Starmer's statement is fine. It's absolutely nothing to get worked up about.
Yes?
The law is an invented thing. We can change it at will. But the existence of two sexes as the basis of sexual reproduction in mammals - that isn't something we can simply redefine out of existence by force of will. And for humans the essence of the sexual dimorphism is that women have cervixes and men do not.
Now sure, there are plenty of edge cases where it is a lot more complicated than that, and it turns out that sex hormones are at least as important as genetics, but, whatever. That is the essential physical reality for most people.
Most of the time it shouldn't matter. If it doesn't matter whether someone is a man or a woman, then it equally doesn't matter whether someone who is biologically female call themselves male. What difference does it make?
But, for the very small number of circumstances where it does matter I don't understand why we would use a human-created legal fiction as our determinant, rather than the more consequential biological reality.
Why would we do that? What is the advantage?
Point of order, it's entirely possible now to create offspring with fewer than or more than two biological parents.
I don't think that changes the definition of our species into one that reproduces asexually.
Comments
71% of Russians feel “pride, joy, respect, hope” regarding war against Ukraine – poll
https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/03/19/71-of-russians-feel-pride-joy-hope-regarding-russias-war-against-ukraine-poll/?swcfpc=1
The GMC does have medical representation, but these are appointed by the government rather than elected by Doctors, and are not in a majority because of Lay representation.
There is a lot wrong with the GMC, but it is certainly not protective of doctors, indeed one of the recent major criticisms is the large number of doctors who commit suicide when up before it's Kafka-esque procedures.
I am sorry to hear of your daughters experiences, but to depict the GMC as a trade union protective of doctors is Putinesque in its departure from truth.
Bruno Maçães
@MacaesBruno
·
1h
An argument I keep hearing: Putin will take the war beyond Ukraine as losing against Nato is more survivable than losing against Ukraine
https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1505217299074195456
Likewise, a GRC does not make a male person female or vice versa. Treating trans people with respect and humanity does not require that we pretend as much.
To me, and I reckon most people, a person still in possession of a cervix is a biological woman, just as a person still in possession of a penis is a biological man. If they change gender then they change GENDER, not their biological sex (unless and until they have reassignment surgery)
Only biological women have cervixes (apart from some fantastically rare freak cases); Keir "sanity" Starmer is insane
Seems heading towards Nazi Germany kind of society. Some resistance but in the main either leader worship or at least keeping your head down and say little.
You are right, it is possible that they did this maliciously. I was being charitable by attributing it to ignorance.
'Inside Azov, the neo-Nazi brigade killing Russian generals and playing a PR game in the Ukraine war
Its well-oiled publicity machine has been producing videos with camera drones capturing attacks on invading troops in real time'
https://tinyurl.com/27ufmjfd
Best news I've heard all week! The sooner the better!! ASAP, say next week!!!
It is a statement of fact that certain entities with cervixes are not women.
Perhaps you could do a Google of things with cervixes, and then look up the definition of woman.
Yes, because the people asking the question are being disengenuous - they don’t care about the actual answer, they’re just setting a trap & intend to close it upon the answerer.
& the reality is that it’s impossible to give an answer that isn’t exlusionary, because nouns are never precisely defined objects. Think of something “simple” like, say, “chair”. Can you define what a chair is in a way that includes all the things that people refer to as chairs, but is not so completely fuzzy as to be useless? How about “sandwich” ? (cue the: is a hotdog a sandwich war...) You may claim, ah ha! but for people we can resort to genetics: Manliness is in the genes! Except not - there are people with XY genes out there who have had multiple children. Are they men now? What about intersex people ? And so on.
Trying to nail down what defines a “women” or a “man” is a quasi-fascistic act. It excludes more than it includes - we’re already seeing “manly”-appearing women being challenged in female toilets because for some people they’re crossing some arbitrary line about how feminine you have to be there, something that they report experiencing only in the last few years as anti-trans rhetoric has ramped up in this country.
This is a path that can only get worse from here & I don’t think it’s one we ought to be taking
However it really matters that we also protect vulnerable people from any such attitude allowing for them to be assaulted, as with this rape case. It sounds to me from those who know more about it than me that the law is mostly there but we should sharpen the guidance, investigate the issues, and act against anyone who had failed in their duty.
Beyond that, can’t we all just get along? It doesn’t harm me if someone wants to “identify” as another gender and it doesn’t harm them if I think that’s not real so long as I’m not bullying them.
To me, Just Culture needs to be preceded, or at least accompanied by, psychological safety and a complete understanding of complex adaptive systems.
Was at a Dekker conference a few years back with about 200 safety professionals in the room from military through nuclear power through power distribution and rail systems. It was remarkable how few people in the room even knew what a complex adaptive system or emergent properties are.
I doubt @TOPPING has much of special insight to contribute on air to air combat.
Expertises is, by its nature, specialised.
Or is it you do get it and all you're doing is celebrating the ignorance and confusion around this question because you deduce it damages Labour? Hmm. Yes, I think I have that as slight favourite. Bright guy like you.
Cooper? Understandable from her. She's worked out it's a lose/lose because of the tedious bad faith twisting of any response.
But again it's easy. A woman is an adult of the female gender, the vast majority being born that way.
What's your "Tory" definition of a woman? Is it different?
Please demonstrate that fact. (It's nothing of the kind)
Edit: Perhaps Putin is really Russia Trump
A more recent study, in 2021, showed that there are 86.1 assaults per 1000 transgender women vs 23.7 assaults per 1000 women born in that gender.
Trans people are much more likely to require our protection from assault, than to be perpetrators of assaults themselves.
......his article, "Fascism – Borderless and Red", described "national capitalism" as pre-empting the development of a "genuine, true, radically revolutionary and consistent, fascist fascism" in Russia. He believes that it was "by no means the racist and chauvinist aspects of National Socialism that determined the nature of its ideology. The excesses of this ideology in Germany are a matter exclusively of the Germans ... while Russian fascism is a combination of natural national conservatism with a passionate desire for true changes."[26] "Waffen-SS and especially the scientific sector of this organization, Ahnenerbe," was "an intellectual oasis in the framework of the National Socialist regime", according to him
Same goes for the Tories, of course. Tho they have much less of a problem as they are not seen as the source of Wokeness
That's convoluted, but it's not a bad answer to the question, in the circumstances
Why didn't Cooper use it? Because there are plenty of Wokier people in her party who find fault
And then there's the animal kingdom. Female mammals do - I believe - have cervixes. And are not usually described - irrespective of self ID - as women.
IIRC it was Strathclyde Police who tried to seize the interview tapes from a CAA investigation - when someone tried to explain Just Culture to them, they simply couldn't understand.
Now sure, there are plenty of edge cases where it is a lot more complicated than that, and it turns out that sex hormones are at least as important as genetics, but, whatever. That is the essential physical reality for most people.
Most of the time it shouldn't matter. If it doesn't matter whether someone is a man or a woman, then it equally doesn't matter whether someone who is biologically female call themselves male. What difference does it make?
But, for the very small number of circumstances where it does matter I don't understand why we would use a human-created legal fiction as our determinant, rather than the more consequential biological reality.
Why would we do that? What is the advantage?
Do you seriously think that the "woman" in the nhs case was in any real sense trans?
Neither of your studies asked about assaults perpetrated *by* trans women, nor could expect to receive a useful answer if it did, but you cite them both as evidence of the assault/be assaulted imbalance. Why?
Is it a person born a man who now legally identifies as a woman? So then, surely, she is just a "woman", at least in Woke terms? Or is it a person born a man in the surgical/social act of transitioning?
Or is it a woman who WANTS to transition to being a man? Or what?
This is not facetious. This whole argument has become so fucking stupid everything is unclear
If he can say that while his country is being devastated, it shouldn’t be so tough for us. Neither embrace nor ruin of Russia is an answer.
And it does include the daily standing charges
How does that happen?
I made no specific comment on the NHS case.
Basically a policy of live and let live, but accepting the reality that one or two narrowly defined spaces won’t accept trans women who haven’t had surgery.
Edit - I am probably being harsh on some men who think otherwise, but I can’t imagine ever being fussed about having a “man only” place. I accept having a men’s changed room because women would feel uncomfortable if I was with them, not the other way round. Which is an interesting psychological difference.
pretendingto be police officers to abuse women?Avebury to Carnac to Newgrange
The genius of the Stonehenge restorers was not to overdo it, so it still looks like a romantic ruin; In Newgrange, by contrast, they went way over the top and it looks like a newbuild and has the poetry of a Barratt Home
This again underlines the uniqueness of Gobekli and now Karahan Tepe. Buried for 10,000 years. No need to restore them as they were safely hidden under sand, entirely intact. It is what it is, and it is marvellous to our eyes
To what extent, though, do you think the medical omertà which Peter describes still prevails ?
Honestly, there is probably no right answer to a trap question like this, so best not to answer it at all. You know it’s not being asked in good faith after all - the whole point is to take whatever answer you happen to make and use it as a wedge to hammer inbetween party members.
I do wonder in a way whether having a strong identity of English, Scottish Welsh has helped us somewhat on this island. It's meant that whilst for pragmatic reasons a unitary state has emerged we've had a fairly weak (if persistent) form of national identity.
It's just that other people have noticed, and it is now starting to affect ordinary, non-political people
Some people have gender reassignment surgery, and go through horrendous hormone treatments, and no particular threat to people of their new sex. These people get to take on their new sex, and if you wish to call them transgender you can.
If you have not gone through this process (but are on the path), then you get to call yourself 'transitioning'. They do not get access to safe spaces for their non-birth gender - such as prisons, bathrooms, changing rooms, or the like.
I would suggest that we encourage a small number of bathrooms, etc., as private spaces where those who have modesty issues or are transitioning and feel uncomfortable can use.
Problem solved.
Of course many perceive Communism to be more benign that Fascism. Load of horseshit IMHO.
Why would we erode such protections in favour of a legal fiction?
That, plus reserve womens sport for birth women, and beef up safeguards to ensure the young don't do anything really, really irreversible until they are really, really sure about it, and problem 100% solved.
You don't get to redefine words at will.