Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

In Other News …. – politicalbetting.com

145679

Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited March 2022
    .
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Without wanting to go over the last thread all over again I looked up some stuff on the Falklands War regarding @HYUFD comment on it being easy.

    The US Navy assessed that a successful counter invasion was impossible

    Lord Craig stated that if just 6 of the 13 bomb fuses that failed because the Argentine Hawks were flying too low had detonated we would have lost

    And that is ignoring the threat of the exocets getting past the destroyers and frigates which suffered badly protecting the carriers.

    But hey ho just a cake walk.

    Right you want to restart this I can go on all evening and all night now if needed.

    None of that changes whatsoever my point that Thatcher was prepared to fight to retake the Falklands as Argentina did not have nuclear weapons unlike us and had a far weaker military like us. Hence we won the war and she would have continued to fight the war no matter what the cost.

    Sending a no fly zone into Ukraine against a Russia armed with nuclear weapons is however a totally different ball game
    Even had all our carriers been sunk and most of our destroyers and frigates been sunk (which they weren't and was highly unlikely) we could still have placed submarines armed with nuclear weapons off the coast off Argentina and refused to remove them until the Argentines withdrew
    Again showing your ignorance. Re our frigates and destroyers over 50% were hit. As per my previous reference frome some who actually knew what he was talking about if just 6 of the 13 bombs that failed to explode had done so we would have lost. So not highly unlikely at all, but nearly happened. Bizarrely we were lucky that the very brave Argentine Hawk pilots got too low. As it was 4 did sink.
    So 50% were not and most were not sunk and our carriers survived.

    Even if all 13 bombs had not gone off that did not mean we would have lost as we had nuclear weapons and Argentina did not.

    As I said we could have parked subs armed with nuclear missiles off the Argentine Coast and refused to remove them until Argentine forces withdrew from the Falkland Islands
    Again completely missed the point. All I objected to was you saying it was easy. Go on finally admit it wasn't easy. The US Navy thought it impossible. The head of the RAF thought that we would have lost if 6 of those ,13 bombs had exploded. If they had of exploded we would have lost over half our frigates and destroyers.

    Under no circumstances can that be described as easy.

    Go on admit it wasn't easy. That is all I am after. Be a man at admit you were wrong to say tha.
    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.
    Bonkers. I never said we should concede defeat. Don't know where you got that from. Once we were committed, we were committed. And I was in favour of us doing so. You just make stuff up.

    I have objected to one thing, you saying 3 times that the Falklands war was easy and you are so weak you can't admit that was a mistake. Pathetic.

    You are so feeble and weak that you are happy to insult the memory of those that fought and the government of the day than admit you were wrong.

    Shame on you.
    Yes you did.

    You were not prepared to use all methods at our disposal to free the Falklands. You effectively said if the war had started to go against our conventional forces we would automatically have lost.

    You restarted this debate not me, so stop whinging if you can't take the heat
    And I said you are polite the other day !!!!!

    Your whole commentary on the Falklands was error strewn, fake, and frankly an unbelievable ascertain we would nuke Buenos Aires

    I was discussing the Falklands war in detail with constituents in the1983 election, were you? - because if you had said half of what you have said you would have had a very angry response
    Had you effectively handed over the Falklands to Argentina had the conventional war not started to go in our favour I am sure you too would have met with an angry response
    But the Thatcher Government was well started on handing them over to Argentina. Secret talks, running down the forces both locally and more generally ... the V-bombers, the assault ships, much else was being closed down, including Portsmouth Dockyard. If General Galtieri had been a little more patient ...
    There were talks, so what, at most they would have involved some powersharing and even that unlikely. Not wholesale handing of British territory to Argentina
    Of course, you weren't awarte of anything more than the Flowerpot Men or the Magic Roundabout.But there was a hell of a lot of criticism of Mr N. Ridley at the FO, and Lord Carrington actually wanted to resign from MoD.

    Yes.

    A Tory minister. Wanting to resign for fouling up.

    Just imagine how unutterably bad that was.
    Actually Carrington at the FO, and he did resign.
    Nott merely flounced out of an interview with Robin Day.
    “ why should people believe you, a transient, here today and, if I may say so, gone tomorrow politician.… “
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,167
    edited March 2022

    There haven't been any further details about this so it could just be sonic booms misreported as explosions.

    https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504194054585831429

    @HannaLiubakova
    Massive explosions in a number of cities in #Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions. We are trying to understand what happened

    What happens when Belarus realises Putin doesn't really care about them and is just interested in using the country when convenient to him.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Leon said:

    There haven't been any further details about this so it could just be sonic booms misreported as explosions.

    https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504194054585831429

    @HannaLiubakova
    Massive explosions in a number of cities in #Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions. We are trying to understand what happened

    Dear God, this sounds bad

    I hope I am wrong

    But if I had to guess right now I'd say Putin is trying to cue up a pan-European war
    You’ve only got to watch his increasingly deranged speeches to realise that is a real possibility

    I still can’t see how he’s satisfied finding a “peace deal”
    The problem is that a peace deal still doesn't help him get out of the domestic hole he's dug for himself, so escalation in one form or another is his only option.
    The peace deal (as mooted) is just a face saving for the Russian military. Ukraine would be rebuilt and re-energised, Russia would be a failed state.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Just to put on record, Are You Being Served, Hi-de-Hi, Allo Allo, and You Rang M’Lord are all horribly outdated and bloody brilliant.

    As was It Ain’t Half Hot Mum.

    You Rang My Lord is the very best of the Croft and Perry stuff for me. So brilliantly written. Excellent characters and very well acted with a real air of tragedy as well as comedy.
    Yes, I forgot IAHHM.

    I know it is no longer permitted in polite society to say it, but I saw the first episode on YouTube a few years back and I thought it held up well.

    We loved all that stuff when I was growing up.

    But then, as a Anglo-NZ-Indian-Scots family with a tinge of Flemish, we weren’t overly obsessed with people’s race or indeed sexuality.

    It’s possible we were unusually enlightened in the working class suburbs of Auckland in the 1980s.
    The final episode is a great bit of telly.
    Yes, it’s sublime. Stripped of his power the Sgt Major is rather a feeble figure and the former troops don’t have it in them to give him a piece of their mind. I’d like to think he had his happy ever after with his son and his mother.
    I believe he went in to run an antique shop with another irascible old queer in the Cotswolds.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    Andy_JS said:

    There haven't been any further details about this so it could just be sonic booms misreported as explosions.

    https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504194054585831429

    @HannaLiubakova
    Massive explosions in a number of cities in #Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions. We are trying to understand what happened

    What happens when Belarus realises Putin doesn't really care about them and is just interested in using the country when convenient.
    They apply to join NATO....
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    There haven't been any further details about this so it could just be sonic booms misreported as explosions.

    https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504194054585831429

    @HannaLiubakova
    Massive explosions in a number of cities in #Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions. We are trying to understand what happened

    Could be. Or the Belarus military are staging some sort of mutiny (wishful thinking)

    Oh - and Liverpool are a bit shit at the moment
    Oh - and Liverpool are a bit shit at the moment…

    Her - do you have to do that here now?

    Me - well, those two sides just spent 45 minutes trimming their pubes
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,912

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is a keen history student.

    He has seen a grainy archival clip of noted activist Kenny Everett suggesting we nuke Russia and the standing ovation given by the Tory faithful — and drawn the wrong conclusion.

    My comments would have been mild compared to those of most Tory delegates at Tory conferences, certainly in the 1980s
    I went to the conferences at the time, did you
    If HYUFD is representative of the current Tory party I'm glad I left it 10 years ago. It is a very strange perspective on what the party was, and how Margaret Thatcher and her cabinet prosecuted the Falklands war, but, I think, illuminating.
    I am obviously not a member of the Tory party but HYUFD's opinions do not in any way represent any Tory I have ever come across. I genuinely believe, between beating up Spanish Grannies, sending tanks in to stop the Scots voting and nuking Argentina, he is deranged.
    I haven’t met anyone with his disgusting views on the use of nuclear weapons. If I hadn’t picked up a sense of his age from others, I’d assume he was a kid.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited March 2022
    Colleagues, as another Essex resident who has looked at history, although not as a University discipline, can I refer everyone to Earl Britnoth, advisor to Ethelred the Badly Advised (aka Unready). Earl of Essex 950 or so.
    Faced with a Viking invasion, instead of letting them drown as the tide rose, he invited them to cross to the mainland for a ‘fair’ battle.
    And lost. And died..
    Our Epping friend seems to have a similar grasp on strategy and reality.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Taz said:

    Just to put on record, Are You Being Served, Hi-de-Hi, Allo Allo, and You Rang M’Lord are all horribly outdated and bloody brilliant.

    As was It Ain’t Half Hot Mum.

    You Rang My Lord is the very best of the Croft and Perry stuff for me. So brilliantly written. Excellent characters and very well acted with a real air of tragedy as well as comedy.
    I liked the episode of YRML where the put upon char lady's dreams all come true.
    Was that the final episode where she ended up running a guest house with Mr Twelvetrees ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Just to put on record, Are You Being Served, Hi-de-Hi, Allo Allo, and You Rang M’Lord are all horribly outdated and bloody brilliant.

    As was It Ain’t Half Hot Mum.

    You Rang My Lord is the very best of the Croft and Perry stuff for me. So brilliantly written. Excellent characters and very well acted with a real air of tragedy as well as comedy.
    Yes, I forgot IAHHM.

    I know it is no longer permitted in polite society to say it, but I saw the first episode on YouTube a few years back and I thought it held up well.

    We loved all that stuff when I was growing up.

    But then, as a Anglo-NZ-Indian-Scots family with a tinge of Flemish, we weren’t overly obsessed with people’s race or indeed sexuality.

    It’s possible we were unusually enlightened in the working class suburbs of Auckland in the 1980s.
    The final episode is a great bit of telly.
    Yes, it’s sublime. Stripped of his power the Sgt Major is rather a feeble figure and the former troops don’t have it in them to give him a piece of their mind. I’d like to think he had his happy ever after with his son and his mother.
    The officers being demobbed too.

    Though the concert party did succeed where Blackadder failed. They never did get sent "up the jungle".
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Why didn't Eden nuke Egypt?

    We had conducted nuclear tests by then?

    Just noted you have over 100 000 comments. That's amazing! Quality as well as quantity obvs.

    @HYUFD not far behind.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    dixiedean said:

    I am increasingly.convimced one poster is a 25-year old transgender Dadaist performance artist from Hoxton, carefully curating our reactions to their nonsense for an upcoming multimedia exhibition.

    Damn you got me
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,167

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is a keen history student.

    He has seen a grainy archival clip of noted activist Kenny Everett suggesting we nuke Russia and the standing ovation given by the Tory faithful — and drawn the wrong conclusion.

    My comments would have been mild compared to those of most Tory delegates at Tory conferences, certainly in the 1980s
    I went to the conferences at the time, did you
    If HYUFD is representative of the current Tory party I'm glad I left it 10 years ago. It is a very strange perspective on what the party was, and how Margaret Thatcher and her cabinet prosecuted the Falklands war, but, I think, illuminating.
    I am obviously not a member of the Tory party but HYUFD's opinions do not in any way represent any Tory I have ever come across. I genuinely believe, between beating up Spanish Grannies, sending tanks in to stop the Scots voting and nuking Argentina, he is deranged.
    Still trying to work out what those capitalised letters stand for, after however many years he's been posting on here.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Taz said:

    Taz said:



    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    You may be surprised how quickly time goes by.
    Unlike the show 'As Time Goes By', which went by very slowly.
    One of those successful “unfunny” comedies so popular in the 80s and 90s.

    ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ was the daddy, though.
    Don’t Wait Up, George Layton’s Comedy was of that ilk and Allo Allo certainly outstayed its welcome.
    I think Allo Allo is hilarious and holds up well. A lot of the comedy in the 80's and 90's was very well written. I also find it easier to laugh at things with a laughter track.
    I really liked Allo Allo but, like with Are you Being Served, it probably ran for two too many seasons. They just run out of ideas and repeat gags and catchphrases.

    That's all comedy! I admire how prolific they were. Find a winning formula and grind it out - if you get a shit series, sort it out in the next one. Look at how long Friends went on - in the US they don't kill a cash cow.
    Police Squad?

    Taz said:

    Taz said:



    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    You may be surprised how quickly time goes by.
    Unlike the show 'As Time Goes By', which went by very slowly.
    One of those successful “unfunny” comedies so popular in the 80s and 90s.

    ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ was the daddy, though.
    Don’t Wait Up, George Layton’s Comedy was of that ilk and Allo Allo certainly outstayed its welcome.
    I think Allo Allo is hilarious and holds up well. A lot of the comedy in the 80's and 90's was very well written. I also find it easier to laugh at things with a laughter track.
    I really liked Allo Allo but, like with Are you Being Served, it probably ran for two too many seasons. They just run out of ideas and repeat gags and catchphrases.

    That's all comedy! I admire how prolific they were. Find a winning formula and grind it out - if you get a shit series, sort it out in the next one. Look at how long Friends went on - in the US they don't kill a cash cow.
    Police Squad?
    I don't think I've seen it.
    To give you a flavour (or possibly flavor) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=het1kl-A8qw

    TL;DW it was a series of six episodes starting many of the character's who later appeared in the (to my mind not as good) Naked Gun series.
    Thabks, can't think how I've missed it!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:



    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    You may be surprised how quickly time goes by.
    Unlike the show 'As Time Goes By', which went by very slowly.
    One of those successful “unfunny” comedies so popular in the 80s and 90s.

    ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ was the daddy, though.
    Don’t Wait Up, George Layton’s Comedy was of that ilk and Allo Allo certainly outstayed its welcome.
    I think Allo Allo is hilarious and holds up well. A lot of the comedy in the 80's and 90's was very well written. I also find it easier to laugh at things with a laughter track.
    I really liked Allo Allo but, like with Are you Being Served, it probably ran for two too many seasons. They just run out of ideas and repeat gags and catchphrases.

    Well, it was a spoof on one of the best drama series the BBC ever made, and once they’d stolen the spoofable plot lines from its three series, they were bereft of new ideas.
    The real shame about Secret Army was the last episode, one of the very best of the series, was not shown on terrestrial TV. It wasn’t even on the dvd release.

    You Rang My Lord, as a spoof, was far better and only ran for four seasons.
    What makes you say it was one of the best? Insofar as we know about it, it sounds like something of a disaster to me, and better we never saw it.

    The ending wasn’t particularly satisfying, I agree, although it did nicely exemplify how, once the war was over, many were eager to put the whole experience behind them and move on; what had mattered hugely just a few months before suddenly became irrelevant.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,491

    There haven't been any further details about this so it could just be sonic booms misreported as explosions.

    https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504194054585831429

    @HannaLiubakova
    Massive explosions in a number of cities in #Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions. We are trying to understand what happened

    The sound in the video below the tweet, I think sound more like sonic boom, than an explosion, but Im no expert in this so please correct me if wrong.

    if it is explosions then WTF, Options include but not limited to

    a) False flag operations by Russia to bring Belarusian in to war.
    b) an invasion by Russian army to take full control.
    c) a mutiny from within army.
    d) anti government protesters/activists.
    e) Ukrainian army or Ukrainian army sympathisers (or western special forces) blowing up railways, bridges or other infastrucer being used by Russian army.

    I'm going for a) being most likely followed by e) but who knows.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Without wanting to go over the last thread all over again I looked up some stuff on the Falklands War regarding @HYUFD comment on it being easy.

    The US Navy assessed that a successful counter invasion was impossible

    Lord Craig stated that if just 6 of the 13 bomb fuses that failed because the Argentine Hawks were flying too low had detonated we would have lost

    And that is ignoring the threat of the exocets getting past the destroyers and frigates which suffered badly protecting the carriers.

    But hey ho just a cake walk.

    Right you want to restart this I can go on all evening and all night now if needed.

    None of that changes whatsoever my point that Thatcher was prepared to fight to retake the Falklands as Argentina did not have nuclear weapons unlike us and had a far weaker military like us. Hence we won the war and she would have continued to fight the war no matter what the cost.

    Sending a no fly zone into Ukraine against a Russia armed with nuclear weapons is however a totally different ball game
    Even had all our carriers been sunk and most of our destroyers and frigates been sunk (which they weren't and was highly unlikely) we could still have placed submarines armed with nuclear weapons off the coast off Argentina and refused to remove them until the Argentines withdrew
    Again showing your ignorance. Re our frigates and destroyers over 50% were hit. As per my previous reference frome some who actually knew what he was talking about if just 6 of the 13 bombs that failed to explode had done so we would have lost. So not highly unlikely at all, but nearly happened. Bizarrely we were lucky that the very brave Argentine Hawk pilots got too low. As it was 4 did sink.
    So 50% were not and most were not sunk and our carriers survived.

    Even if all 13 bombs had not gone off that did not mean we would have lost as we had nuclear weapons and Argentina did not.

    As I said we could have parked subs armed with nuclear missiles off the Argentine Coast and refused to remove them until Argentine forces withdrew from the Falkland Islands
    Again completely missed the point. All I objected to was you saying it was easy. Go on finally admit it wasn't easy. The US Navy thought it impossible. The head of the RAF thought that we would have lost if 6 of those ,13 bombs had exploded. If they had of exploded we would have lost over half our frigates and destroyers.

    Under no circumstances can that be described as easy.

    Go on admit it wasn't easy. That is all I am after. Be a man at admit you were wrong to say tha.
    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.
    Bonkers. I never said we should concede defeat. Don't know where you got that from. Once we were committed, we were committed. And I was in favour of us doing so. You just make stuff up.

    I have objected to one thing, you saying 3 times that the Falklands war was easy and you are so weak you can't admit that was a mistake. Pathetic.

    You are so feeble and weak that you are happy to insult the memory of those that fought and the government of the day than admit you were wrong.

    Shame on you.
    Yes you did.

    You were not prepared to use all methods at our disposal to free the Falklands. You effectively said if the war had started to go against our conventional forces we would automatically have lost.

    You restarted this debate not me, so stop whinging if you can't take the heat
    And I said you are polite the other day !!!!!

    Your whole commentary on the Falklands was error strewn, fake, and frankly an unbelievable ascertain we would nuke Buenos Aires

    I was discussing the Falklands war in detail with constituents in the1983 election, were you? - because if you had said half of what you have said you would have had a very angry response
    Had you effectively handed over the Falklands to Argentina had the conventional war not started to go in our favour I am sure you too would have met with an angry response
    But the Thatcher Government was well started on handing them over to Argentina. Secret talks, running down the forces both locally and more generally ... the V-bombers, the assault ships, much else was being closed down, including Portsmouth Dockyard. If General Galtieri had been a little more patient ...
    There were talks, so what, at most they would have involved some powersharing and even that unlikely. Not wholesale handing of British territory to Argentina
    Of course, you weren't awarte of anything more than the Flowerpot Men or the Magic Roundabout.But there was a hell of a lot of criticism of Mr N. Ridley at the FO, and Lord Carrington actually wanted to resign from MoD.

    Yes.

    A Tory minister. Wanting to resign for fouling up.

    Just imagine how unutterably bad that was.
    Actually Carrington at the FO, and he did resign.
    Nott merely flounced out of an interview with Robin Day.
    “ why should people believe you, a transient, here today and, if I may say so, gone tomorrow politician.… “
    I saw that live, btw.
    It was mint.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Just to put on record, Are You Being Served, Hi-de-Hi, Allo Allo, and You Rang M’Lord are all horribly outdated and bloody brilliant.

    As was It Ain’t Half Hot Mum.

    You Rang My Lord is the very best of the Croft and Perry stuff for me. So brilliantly written. Excellent characters and very well acted with a real air of tragedy as well as comedy.
    Yes, I forgot IAHHM.

    I know it is no longer permitted in polite society to say it, but I saw the first episode on YouTube a few years back and I thought it held up well.

    We loved all that stuff when I was growing up.

    But then, as a Anglo-NZ-Indian-Scots family with a tinge of Flemish, we weren’t overly obsessed with people’s race or indeed sexuality.

    It’s possible we were unusually enlightened in the working class suburbs of Auckland in the 1980s.
    The final episode is a great bit of telly.
    Yes, it’s sublime. Stripped of his power the Sgt Major is rather a feeble figure and the former troops don’t have it in them to give him a piece of their mind. I’d like to think he had his happy ever after with his son and his mother.
    I believe he went in to run an antique shop with another irascible old queer in the Cotswolds.
    An, brilliant. The feuding antique dealers. So terrible it was fun to watch.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    There haven't been any further details about this so it could just be sonic booms misreported as explosions.

    https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504194054585831429

    @HannaLiubakova
    Massive explosions in a number of cities in #Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions. We are trying to understand what happened

    Could be. Or the Belarus military are staging some sort of mutiny (wishful thinking)

    Oh - and Liverpool are a bit shit at the moment
    Oh - and Liverpool are a bit shit at the moment…

    Her - do you have to do that here now?

    Me - well, those two sides just spent 45 minutes trimming their pubes
    Oh here we go, the drama continues. 🥱

    Time to order a Chicken Tikka Mo Salah?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Andy_JS said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is a keen history student.

    He has seen a grainy archival clip of noted activist Kenny Everett suggesting we nuke Russia and the standing ovation given by the Tory faithful — and drawn the wrong conclusion.

    My comments would have been mild compared to those of most Tory delegates at Tory conferences, certainly in the 1980s
    I went to the conferences at the time, did you
    If HYUFD is representative of the current Tory party I'm glad I left it 10 years ago. It is a very strange perspective on what the party was, and how Margaret Thatcher and her cabinet prosecuted the Falklands war, but, I think, illuminating.
    I am obviously not a member of the Tory party but HYUFD's opinions do not in any way represent any Tory I have ever come across. I genuinely believe, between beating up Spanish Grannies, sending tanks in to stop the Scots voting and nuking Argentina, he is deranged.
    Still trying to work out what those capitalised letters stand for, after however many years he's been posting on here.
    Here’s your unusually farcical deliberations.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:



    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    You may be surprised how quickly time goes by.
    Unlike the show 'As Time Goes By', which went by very slowly.
    One of those successful “unfunny” comedies so popular in the 80s and 90s.

    ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ was the daddy, though.
    Don’t Wait Up, George Layton’s Comedy was of that ilk and Allo Allo certainly outstayed its welcome.
    I think Allo Allo is hilarious and holds up well. A lot of the comedy in the 80's and 90's was very well written. I also find it easier to laugh at things with a laughter track.
    I really liked Allo Allo but, like with Are you Being Served, it probably ran for two too many seasons. They just run out of ideas and repeat gags and catchphrases.

    Well, it was a spoof on one of the best drama series the BBC ever made, and once they’d stolen the spoofable plot lines from its three series, they were bereft of new ideas.
    I feel they didn’t explore sufficiently the comedy in collective punishment and the torture of SOE radio operators.
    You obviously missed the episode in S5 when Rene and co. were locked in the Chateau for working with the resistance and had to escape dressed as Nuns.
    Listen very carefully, I shall say zis only once...
    I must admit to Allo Allo as a guilty pleasure. Perhaps you had to grow up with endless WW2 dramas to get a lot of the jokes.
    It is (in season 1 at least) EXTRAORDINARILY similar to Secret Army. It becomes less so.

    Hi De Hi, while the fabulous Simon Cadell is in it, is my favourite though. Deadpan: "Pies pies who wants a custard pie."
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062

    dixiedean said:

    I am increasingly.convimced one poster is a 25-year old transgender Dadaist performance artist from Hoxton, carefully curating our reactions to their nonsense for an upcoming multimedia exhibition.

    Damn you got me
    No I am a 25 year old transgender Dadaist performance artist from Hoxton...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    Seriously, if the reports are correct that is an insane number.

    Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says another Russian general has been killed during fighting...

    He is the fourth general reportedly killed, leading some to ask why such senior members of the Russian military are so close to the front-line.

    Analysts believe that around 20 generals are leading Russian operations in Ukraine, meaning that if all the reported deaths are confirmed, one fifth of Russia's generals have been killed in action.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60767664
  • Honestly, I am not sure who is sillier: @HYUFD or those engaging with his ludicrous nonsense.

    Just let it go guys!

    Duty calls....

    image
    Fantastic
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    edited March 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is a keen history student.

    He has seen a grainy archival clip of noted activist Kenny Everett suggesting we nuke Russia and the standing ovation given by the Tory faithful — and drawn the wrong conclusion.

    My comments would have been mild compared to those of most Tory delegates at Tory conferences, certainly in the 1980s
    I went to the conferences at the time, did you
    If HYUFD is representative of the current Tory party I'm glad I left it 10 years ago. It is a very strange perspective on what the party was, and how Margaret Thatcher and her cabinet prosecuted the Falklands war, but, I think, illuminating.
    I am obviously not a member of the Tory party but HYUFD's opinions do not in any way represent any Tory I have ever come across. I genuinely believe, between beating up Spanish Grannies, sending tanks in to stop the Scots voting and nuking Argentina, he is deranged.
    Still trying to work out what those capitalised letters stand for, after however many years he's been posting on here.
    Here’s your unusually farcical deliberations.
    Historian, Yet Utterly F*cking Deluded?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    edited March 2022

    Leon said:

    There haven't been any further details about this so it could just be sonic booms misreported as explosions.

    https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504194054585831429

    @HannaLiubakova
    Massive explosions in a number of cities in #Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions. We are trying to understand what happened

    Dear God, this sounds bad

    I hope I am wrong

    But if I had to guess right now I'd say Putin is trying to cue up a pan-European war
    You’ve only got to watch his increasingly deranged speeches to realise that is a real possibility

    I still can’t see how he’s satisfied finding a “peace deal”
    The problem is that a peace deal still doesn't help him get out of the domestic hole he's dug for himself, so escalation in one form or another is his only option.
    And Putin’s position is no better.

    As in PB, in RL.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    edited March 2022
    mwadams said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:



    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    You may be surprised how quickly time goes by.
    Unlike the show 'As Time Goes By', which went by very slowly.
    One of those successful “unfunny” comedies so popular in the 80s and 90s.

    ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ was the daddy, though.
    Don’t Wait Up, George Layton’s Comedy was of that ilk and Allo Allo certainly outstayed its welcome.
    I think Allo Allo is hilarious and holds up well. A lot of the comedy in the 80's and 90's was very well written. I also find it easier to laugh at things with a laughter track.
    I really liked Allo Allo but, like with Are you Being Served, it probably ran for two too many seasons. They just run out of ideas and repeat gags and catchphrases.

    Well, it was a spoof on one of the best drama series the BBC ever made, and once they’d stolen the spoofable plot lines from its three series, they were bereft of new ideas.
    I feel they didn’t explore sufficiently the comedy in collective punishment and the torture of SOE radio operators.
    You obviously missed the episode in S5 when Rene and co. were locked in the Chateau for working with the resistance and had to escape dressed as Nuns.
    Listen very carefully, I shall say zis only once...
    I must admit to Allo Allo as a guilty pleasure. Perhaps you had to grow up with endless WW2 dramas to get a lot of the jokes.
    It is (in season 1 at least) EXTRAORDINARILY similar to Secret Army. It becomes less so.

    Hi De Hi, while the fabulous Simon Cadell is in it, is my favourite though. Deadpan: "Pies pies who wants a custard pie."
    If you line them up end to end, was there ever such a motley array of comic personas since Dickens?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,284
    kle4 said:

    Seriously, if the reports are correct that is an insane number.

    Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says another Russian general has been killed during fighting...

    He is the fourth general reportedly killed, leading some to ask why such senior members of the Russian military are so close to the front-line.

    Analysts believe that around 20 generals are leading Russian operations in Ukraine, meaning that if all the reported deaths are confirmed, one fifth of Russia's generals have been killed in action.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60767664

    That's starting to sound like the casualty rate for generals at Gettysburg.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,947
    kle4 said:

    Seriously, if the reports are correct that is an insane number.

    Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says another Russian general has been killed during fighting...

    He is the fourth general reportedly killed, leading some to ask why such senior members of the Russian military are so close to the front-line.

    Analysts believe that around 20 generals are leading Russian operations in Ukraine, meaning that if all the reported deaths are confirmed, one fifth of Russia's generals have been killed in action.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60767664

    Credit where it's due, they may be war criminals but they aren't General Melchetts.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Andy_JS said:

    There haven't been any further details about this so it could just be sonic booms misreported as explosions.

    https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504194054585831429

    @HannaLiubakova
    Massive explosions in a number of cities in #Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions. We are trying to understand what happened

    What happens when Belarus realises Putin doesn't really care about them and is just interested in using the country when convenient.
    They apply to join NATO....
    They'll have to wait their turn. Iran is next.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    Perhaps we need to ITV to make a comedy about the failing Russian campaign for Ukraine.

    All those malfunctioning generals, led by the cosmetically bizarre Putain.

    I believe Su Pollard is available.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Just to put on record, Are You Being Served, Hi-de-Hi, Allo Allo, and You Rang M’Lord are all horribly outdated and bloody brilliant.

    As was It Ain’t Half Hot Mum.

    You Rang My Lord is the very best of the Croft and Perry stuff for me. So brilliantly written. Excellent characters and very well acted with a real air of tragedy as well as comedy.
    I liked the episode of YRML where the put upon char lady's dreams all come true.
    Was that the final episode where she ended up running a guest house with Mr Twelvetrees ?
    (As per the ending of Upstairs Downstairs which is possibly the greatest TV series of all time.)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    The US government releases the name of 28 of the 50 Russian oligarchs and political figures who are US “priorities” for asset seizure and enforcement. https://twitter.com/seth_hettena/status/1504205207151947776/photo/1
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    edited March 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    There haven't been any further details about this so it could just be sonic booms misreported as explosions.

    https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1504194054585831429

    @HannaLiubakova
    Massive explosions in a number of cities in #Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions. We are trying to understand what happened

    What happens when Belarus realises Putin doesn't really care about them and is just interested in using the country when convenient to him.
    One of the videos on Twitter has a classic double boom. Supersonic aircraft. Heard it here from Typhoons out of Coningsby on intercept, and it certainly makes you jump.

    Where they are going and what they are doing is another question.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    HYUFD = Help You Understand Falklands Denouement.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:



    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    You may be surprised how quickly time goes by.
    Unlike the show 'As Time Goes By', which went by very slowly.
    One of those successful “unfunny” comedies so popular in the 80s and 90s.

    ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ was the daddy, though.
    Don’t Wait Up, George Layton’s Comedy was of that ilk and Allo Allo certainly outstayed its welcome.
    I think Allo Allo is hilarious and holds up well. A lot of the comedy in the 80's and 90's was very well written. I also find it easier to laugh at things with a laughter track.
    I really liked Allo Allo but, like with Are you Being Served, it probably ran for two too many seasons. They just run out of ideas and repeat gags and catchphrases.

    Well, it was a spoof on one of the best drama series the BBC ever made, and once they’d stolen the spoofable plot lines from its three series, they were bereft of new ideas.
    The real shame about Secret Army was the last episode, one of the very best of the series, was not shown on terrestrial TV. It wasn’t even on the dvd release.

    You Rang My Lord, as a spoof, was far better and only ran for four seasons.
    What makes you say it was one of the best? Insofar as we know about it, it sounds like something of a disaster to me, and better we never saw it.

    The ending wasn’t particularly satisfying, I agree, although it did nicely exemplify how, once the war was over, many were eager to put the whole experience behind them and move on; what had mattered hugely just a few months before suddenly became irrelevant.
    I have seen it a couple of times and I think it works really well. Mind you I know a few people who are not keen and I approached it with no expectation based on that. It is available on YouTube. I cannot see why they couldn’t have released it on DVD.

    There was also the follow up series Kessler which tied up some loose ends. And, touching on what you refer to how people just wanted to put it all behind them, much later on the hunt for justice became much more pronounced.

    I once read David Cesaranis book ‘Justice Delayed’ and was surprised and appalled how we became a haven for former Nazis to start new lives.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.

    Do you think the Americans would have "allowed" us to strike a city like Cordoba with a nuclear weapon?

    The Americans would have suffered an appalling political backlash throughout Latin America and I'm quite sure Reagan, for all his Anglophilia, would have been strongly advised by his administration the nuclear destruction of a Latin American city would be a catastrophe.

    I suspect, had we got to that point, American political and economic pressure would have been applied to BOTH London and Buenos Aires to broker a diplomatic solution.
    Who cares what the Americans did. We defend our territory at all costs, the Falklands was our territory.

    If the Americans refused to respect that they were not true allies anyway.

    Of course the UN did pressure both sides for a diplomatic solution and if the Argentines had withdrawn their forces from the Falklands one could have been found without further escalation
    Just so I'm clear - if Washington had told us in the event of launching a nuclear attack on Argentina, they (Washington) would impose punitive economic sanctions on the UK, you would still have incinerated Cordoba.

    The worldwide economic and diplomatic consequences of such a course of action would have been extreme - we might well have been thrown out of both NATO and the EEC. The pictures of the incinerated ruins of Cordoba would have been broadcast round the world and would have led to huge sympathy for the Argentines.

    The economic impact would have been no less severe with a run on sterling and capital flight from the UK leaving us exposed to inflation and renewed unemployment.

    Have you forgotten the extent to which American economic pressure forced both us and the French to stand down in Suez in 1956?

    Thatcher's Britain would have been as much a pariah state as Putin's Russia is now.
    If you remember the considerable debate over the morality of sinking the Belgrano, Thatcher would have been worse than a pariah at home, too.
    We’d likely have handed her over to the Hague for trial.
    Put it another way.

    The Soviet Union didn't fire nukes, even in its Evil Empire phase.

    The USA didn't fire nukes in Vietnam.

    Crass Putin isn't using them now.

    There is no way that the UK could have used its nuclear weapons in the Falklands without becoming, unambiguously, The Baddies. There's no way of using them without turning civilians into radioactive ash.

    There's a whole episode of Yes, Prime Minister setting this out. If They have them, We need to have them. But only to fire second in a bit of game theory. To use them first is to be a nation-sized suicide bomber.

    Maggie, right to the end, had the class to recognise this. She wouldn't have escalated a war to nuclear level in an attempt to save her Premiership, because it wouldn't have worked.
    And nukes weren’t used in Korea despite pressure from the US military all the way up to MacArthur, several parlous moments for the US/UN forces and two very recent precedents.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Cicero said:

    dixiedean said:

    I am increasingly.convimced one poster is a 25-year old transgender Dadaist performance artist from Hoxton, carefully curating our reactions to their nonsense for an upcoming multimedia exhibition.

    Damn you got me
    No I am a 25 year old transgender Dadaist performance artist from Hoxton...
    I think we all are. Please use they/them.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Scott_xP said:

    The US government releases the name of 28 of the 50 Russian oligarchs and political figures who are US “priorities” for asset seizure and enforcement. https://twitter.com/seth_hettena/status/1504205207151947776/photo/1

    Treasury is also launching the Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Rewards Program, offering up to $5 million for information leading to seizure, restraint, or forfeiture of assets linked to foreign government corruption in Russia and elsewhere.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Checks in. Finds out that half of PB has followed @HYUFD so far down his Falklands rabbit hole that they have nearly reached Port Stanley. Checks out again. What a waste of @Cyclefree’s excellent header.

    All Cyclefree headers are brilliant, because they are educational about things going on that shock me I didn’t know was happening.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    Without wanting to go over the last thread all over again I looked up some stuff on the Falklands War regarding @HYUFD comment on it being easy.

    The US Navy assessed that a successful counter invasion was impossible

    Lord Craig stated that if just 6 of the 13 bomb fuses that failed because the Argentine Hawks were flying too low had detonated we would have lost

    And that is ignoring the threat of the exocets getting past the destroyers and frigates which suffered badly protecting the carriers.

    But hey ho just a cake walk.

    Right you want to restart this I can go on all evening and all night now if needed.

    None of that changes whatsoever my point that Thatcher was prepared to fight to retake the Falklands as Argentina did not have nuclear weapons unlike us and had a far weaker military like us. Hence we won the war and she would have continued to fight the war no matter what the cost.

    Sending a no fly zone into Ukraine against a Russia armed with nuclear weapons is however a totally different ball game
    Even had all our carriers been sunk and most of our destroyers and frigates been sunk (which they weren't and was highly unlikely) we could still have placed submarines armed with nuclear weapons off the coast off Argentina and refused to remove them until the Argentines withdrew
    Again showing your ignorance. Re our frigates and destroyers over 50% were hit. As per my previous reference frome some who actually knew what he was talking about if just 6 of the 13 bombs that failed to explode had done so we would have lost. So not highly unlikely at all, but nearly happened. Bizarrely we were lucky that the very brave Argentine Hawk pilots got too low. As it was 4 did sink.
    So 50% were not and most were not sunk and our carriers survived.

    Even if all 13 bombs had not gone off that did not mean we would have lost as we had nuclear weapons and Argentina did not.

    As I said we could have parked subs armed with nuclear missiles off the Argentine Coast and refused to remove them until Argentine forces withdrew from the Falkland Islands
    Again completely missed the point. All I objected to was you saying it was easy. Go on finally admit it wasn't easy. The US Navy thought it impossible. The head of the RAF thought that we would have lost if 6 of those ,13 bombs had exploded. If they had of exploded we would have lost over half our frigates and destroyers.

    Under no circumstances can that be described as easy.

    Go on admit it wasn't easy. That is all I am after. Be a man at admit you were wrong to say tha.
    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.
    Bonkers. I never said we should concede defeat. Don't know where you got that from. Once we were committed, we were committed. And I was in favour of us doing so. You just make stuff up.

    I have objected to one thing, you saying 3 times that the Falklands war was easy and you are so weak you can't admit that was a mistake. Pathetic.

    You are so feeble and weak that you are happy to insult the memory of those that fought and the government of the day than admit you were wrong.

    Shame on you.
    Yes you did.

    You were not prepared to use all methods at our disposal to free the Falklands. You effectively said if the war had started to go against our conventional forces we would automatically have lost.

    You restarted this debate not me, so stop whinging if you can't take the heat
    And I said you are polite the other day !!!!!

    Your whole commentary on the Falklands was error strewn, fake, and frankly an unbelievable ascertain we would nuke Buenos Aires

    I was discussing the Falklands war in detail with constituents in the1983 election, were you? - because if you had said half of what you have said you would have had a very angry response
    Had you effectively handed over the Falklands to Argentina had the conventional war not started to go in our favour I am sure you too would have met with an angry response
    But the Thatcher Government was well started on handing them over to Argentina. Secret talks, running down the forces both locally and more generally ... the V-bombers, the assault ships, much else was being closed down, including Portsmouth Dockyard. If General Galtieri had been a little more patient ...
    There were talks, so what, at most they would have involved some powersharing and even that unlikely. Not wholesale handing of British territory to Argentina
    Of course, you weren't awarte of anything more than the Flowerpot Men or the Magic Roundabout.But there was a hell of a lot of criticism of Mr N. Ridley at the FO, and Lord Carrington actually wanted to resign from MoD.

    Yes.

    A Tory minister. Wanting to resign for fouling up.

    Just imagine how unutterably bad that was.
    Actually Carrington at the FO, and he did resign.
    Nott merely flounced out of an interview with Robin Day.
    “ why should people believe you, a transient, here today and, if I may say so, gone tomorrow politician.… “
    I saw that live, btw.
    It was mint.
    Moi aussi. ‘I’ve had enough of this’ was his cry as I recall.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,570

    Scott_xP said:

    The US government releases the name of 28 of the 50 Russian oligarchs and political figures who are US “priorities” for asset seizure and enforcement. https://twitter.com/seth_hettena/status/1504205207151947776/photo/1

    Treasury is also launching the Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Rewards Program, offering up to $5 million for information leading to seizure, restraint, or forfeiture of assets linked to foreign government corruption in Russia and elsewhere.
    Provided that it is not also related to domestic government corruption, of course.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,284
    ydoethur said:

    I have just caught up with some of today's threads.

    I am hoping that in going from 'recapturing the Falklands was easy' to 'anyone who thinks we shouldn't have nuked the Argentinians is a traitor' we have seen peak Hyufd.

    Because if not, God help us all.

    I just assume he meant to write 'recapturing the Falklands was simple'. After all:

    "Everything is very simple in war, but the simplest thing is difficult."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Checks in. Finds out that half of PB has followed @HYUFD so far down his Falklands rabbit hole that they have nearly reached Port Stanley. Checks out again. What a waste of @Cyclefree’s excellent header.

    All Cyclefree headers are brilliant, because they are educational about things going on that shock me I didn’t know was happening.
    The grim reality is that they no longer shock me because the crimes she's detailed are all too depressingly predictable.

    And it's not just the police, either. Far too many parts of the public service seem to be developing a corrupt and self-serving attitude that puts themselves above what they're meant to be doing - including, as in this case, teachers.

    And that's even more depressing because knowing as I do how many teachers are battling every day against corruption, incompetence and downright malice to try and keep things afloat, I assume the same is true of many police officers, doctors and even civil servants (although if there are any at the DfE they hide it well).

    But they all get tarred with the same brush.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    mwadams said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Just to put on record, Are You Being Served, Hi-de-Hi, Allo Allo, and You Rang M’Lord are all horribly outdated and bloody brilliant.

    As was It Ain’t Half Hot Mum.

    You Rang My Lord is the very best of the Croft and Perry stuff for me. So brilliantly written. Excellent characters and very well acted with a real air of tragedy as well as comedy.
    I liked the episode of YRML where the put upon char lady's dreams all come true.
    Was that the final episode where she ended up running a guest house with Mr Twelvetrees ?
    (As per the ending of Upstairs Downstairs which is possibly the greatest TV series of all time.)
    It’s certainly up there with the very best.

    I watched the whole lot a few years back and they’re compelling viewing.

    Simon Williams character really was a worthless shit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    edited March 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    The US government releases the name of 28 of the 50 Russian oligarchs and political figures who are US “priorities” for asset seizure and enforcement. https://twitter.com/seth_hettena/status/1504205207151947776/photo/1

    Treasury is also launching the Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Rewards Program, offering up to $5 million for information leading to seizure, restraint, or forfeiture of assets linked to foreign government corruption in Russia and elsewhere.
    If Russia could do the same for us, and extend that to other nations, we can tackle corruption all over the globe! Governments are much keener on finding corruption elsewhere.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The US government releases the name of 28 of the 50 Russian oligarchs and political figures who are US “priorities” for asset seizure and enforcement. https://twitter.com/seth_hettena/status/1504205207151947776/photo/1

    Treasury is also launching the Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Rewards Program, offering up to $5 million for information leading to seizure, restraint, or forfeiture of assets linked to foreign government corruption in Russia and elsewhere.
    If Russia could do the same for us, and extend that to other nations, we can tackle corruption all over the globe! Governments are much keener on finding corruption elsewhere.
    I'll believe it's a thing when we can do the same for ourselves.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Perhaps we need to ITV to make a comedy about the failing Russian campaign for Ukraine.

    All those malfunctioning generals, led by the cosmetically bizarre Putain.

    I believe Su Pollard is available.

    If Ukraine goes the wrong way they can make a new version of Whoops Apocalypse.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Belarus Opposition politicians tweeting cryptically tonight:

    "❗️❗️❗️Over the past 3️⃣ hours, about 3️⃣0️⃣ fighter jets, transport planes & helicopters lifted into the sky from #Belarusian airfields in Baranovichi, Gomel, Lida, Luninets❗️
    6️⃣ missiles launched near the city of Kalinkovichi. Explosions are heard in various cities of #Belarus."
    https://twitter.com/PavelLatushka/status/1504200509481173006

    May be nothing...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:



    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    You may be surprised how quickly time goes by.
    Unlike the show 'As Time Goes By', which went by very slowly.
    One of those successful “unfunny” comedies so popular in the 80s and 90s.

    ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ was the daddy, though.
    Don’t Wait Up, George Layton’s Comedy was of that ilk and Allo Allo certainly outstayed its welcome.
    I think Allo Allo is hilarious and holds up well. A lot of the comedy in the 80's and 90's was very well written. I also find it easier to laugh at things with a laughter track.
    I really liked Allo Allo but, like with Are you Being Served, it probably ran for two too many seasons. They just run out of ideas and repeat gags and catchphrases.

    Well, it was a spoof on one of the best drama series the BBC ever made, and once they’d stolen the spoofable plot lines from its three series, they were bereft of new ideas.
    The real shame about Secret Army was the last episode, one of the very best of the series, was not shown on terrestrial TV. It wasn’t even on the dvd release.

    You Rang My Lord, as a spoof, was far better and only ran for four seasons.
    What makes you say it was one of the best? Insofar as we know about it, it sounds like something of a disaster to me, and better we never saw it.

    The ending wasn’t particularly satisfying, I agree, although it did nicely exemplify how, once the war was over, many were eager to put the whole experience behind them and move on; what had mattered hugely just a few months before suddenly became irrelevant.
    I have seen it a couple of times and I think it works really well. Mind you I know a few people who are not keen and I approached it with no expectation based on that. It is available on YouTube. I cannot see why they couldn’t have released it on DVD.

    There was also the follow up series Kessler which tied up some loose ends. And, touching on what you refer to how people just wanted to put it all behind them, much later on the hunt for justice became much more pronounced.

    I once read David Cesaranis book ‘Justice Delayed’ and was surprised and appalled how we became a haven for former Nazis to start new lives.
    My dad went on a French exchange as a pupil in 1949 to Macon (arranged by by my grandfather who met a French man with a son of similar age on holiday, so they swapped for the summer. Not much safeguarding there). He is fluent in French as a result as no-one spoke English to him for 6 weeks.

    The war was completely taboo. Everyone knew that pretty much everyone else were collaborators.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:



    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    You may be surprised how quickly time goes by.
    Unlike the show 'As Time Goes By', which went by very slowly.
    One of those successful “unfunny” comedies so popular in the 80s and 90s.

    ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ was the daddy, though.
    Don’t Wait Up, George Layton’s Comedy was of that ilk and Allo Allo certainly outstayed its welcome.
    I think Allo Allo is hilarious and holds up well. A lot of the comedy in the 80's and 90's was very well written. I also find it easier to laugh at things with a laughter track.
    I really liked Allo Allo but, like with Are you Being Served, it probably ran for two too many seasons. They just run out of ideas and repeat gags and catchphrases.

    Well, it was a spoof on one of the best drama series the BBC ever made, and once they’d stolen the spoofable plot lines from its three series, they were bereft of new ideas.
    The real shame about Secret Army was the last episode, one of the very best of the series, was not shown on terrestrial TV. It wasn’t even on the dvd release.

    You Rang My Lord, as a spoof, was far better and only ran for four seasons.
    What makes you say it was one of the best? Insofar as we know about it, it sounds like something of a disaster to me, and better we never saw it.

    The ending wasn’t particularly satisfying, I agree, although it did nicely exemplify how, once the war was over, many were eager to put the whole experience behind them and move on; what had mattered hugely just a few months before suddenly became irrelevant.
    I have seen it a couple of times and I think it works really well. Mind you I know a few people who are not keen and I approached it with no expectation based on that. It is available on YouTube. I cannot see why they couldn’t have released it on DVD.

    There was also the follow up series Kessler which tied up some loose ends. And, touching on what you refer to how people just wanted to put it all behind them, much later on the hunt for justice became much more pronounced.

    I once read David Cesaranis book ‘Justice Delayed’ and was surprised and appalled how we became a haven for former Nazis to start new lives.
    If you mean the never-shown reunion episode, I am pretty sure that’s not on YouTube. If you have a link, I’d be interested.
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The US government releases the name of 28 of the 50 Russian oligarchs and political figures who are US “priorities” for asset seizure and enforcement. https://twitter.com/seth_hettena/status/1504205207151947776/photo/1

    Treasury is also launching the Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Rewards Program, offering up to $5 million for information leading to seizure, restraint, or forfeiture of assets linked to foreign government corruption in Russia and elsewhere.
    If Russia could do the same for us, and extend that to other nations, we can tackle corruption all over the globe! Governments are much keener on finding corruption elsewhere.
    That's basically how we do espionage isn't it?

    The Americans can say they're not spying on their own citizens, we can say the same with our own, but all the intelligence is shared via Five Eyes and oh look what the Americans found on one of our own . . .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Seriously, if the reports are correct that is an insane number.

    Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says another Russian general has been killed during fighting...

    He is the fourth general reportedly killed, leading some to ask why such senior members of the Russian military are so close to the front-line.

    Analysts believe that around 20 generals are leading Russian operations in Ukraine, meaning that if all the reported deaths are confirmed, one fifth of Russia's generals have been killed in action.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60767664

    Credit where it's due, they may be war criminals but they aren't General Melchetts.
    Well, not volunteering for the offensive if asked might actually have been a deadlier option dependong on Putin's mood.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Checks in. Finds out that half of PB has followed @HYUFD so far down his Falklands rabbit hole that they have nearly reached Port Stanley. Checks out again. What a waste of @Cyclefree’s excellent header.

    All Cyclefree headers are brilliant, because they are educational about things going on that shock me I didn’t know was happening.
    Liverpool 2 up now.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    edited March 2022
    Chameleon said:

    Belarus Opposition politicians tweeting cryptically tonight:

    "❗️❗️❗️Over the past 3️⃣ hours, about 3️⃣0️⃣ fighter jets, transport planes & helicopters lifted into the sky from #Belarusian airfields in Baranovichi, Gomel, Lida, Luninets❗️
    6️⃣ missiles launched near the city of Kalinkovichi. Explosions are heard in various cities of #Belarus."
    https://twitter.com/PavelLatushka/status/1504200509481173006

    May be nothing...

    Sonic booms, not explosions from what I can tell. Where are those planes heading?

    If it has reached twitter then they'll be wherever they were going already.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    ydoethur said:

    I have just caught up with some of today's threads.

    I am hoping that in going from 'recapturing the Falklands was easy' to 'anyone who thinks we shouldn't have nuked the Argentinians is a traitor' we have seen peak Hyufd.

    Because if not, God help us all.

    I just assume he meant to write 'recapturing the Falklands was simple'. After all:

    "Everything is very simple in war, but the simplest thing is difficult."
    In this case, the simplest thing is to admit an error born of a lack of knowledge. But that seems to be too difficult.

    It's a shame Warwick doesn't teach philosophy as part of its history degree, or Hyufd might have come across Aristotle: 'Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.'
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    Foxy said:

    Checks in. Finds out that half of PB has followed @HYUFD so far down his Falklands rabbit hole that they have nearly reached Port Stanley. Checks out again. What a waste of @Cyclefree’s excellent header.

    All Cyclefree headers are brilliant, because they are educational about things going on that shock me I didn’t know was happening.
    Liverpool 2 up now.
    That’s interesting 🙂
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    edited March 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Checks in. Finds out that half of PB has followed @HYUFD so far down his Falklands rabbit hole that they have nearly reached Port Stanley. Checks out again. What a waste of @Cyclefree’s excellent header.

    All Cyclefree headers are brilliant, because they are educational about things going on that shock me I didn’t know was happening.
    The grim reality is that they no longer shock me because the crimes she's detailed are all too depressingly predictable.

    And it's not just the police, either. Far too many parts of the public service seem to be developing a corrupt and self-serving attitude that puts themselves above what they're meant to be doing - including, as in this case, teachers.

    And that's even more depressing because knowing as I do how many teachers are battling every day against corruption, incompetence and downright malice to try and keep things afloat, I assume the same is true of many police officers, doctors and even civil servants (although if there are any at the DfE they hide it well).

    But they all get tarred with the same brush.
    Correct me if I'm wrong. In the case in question, the police were called because the young girl was reeking of cannabis. A lot of blame has been pinned on teachers, but teachers wouldn't call the police - it would be the headteacher, or at least a member of senior management, wouldn't it? The subsequent failure to stop the girl being strip-searched in private by the police would therefore fall on the head/senior manager, wouldn't it, rather than 'teachers' in general?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    DavidL said:

    Incredibly the mayor of the occupied Ukrainian city Melitopol, who was kidnapped by Russian forces last week, has been freed.

    President Zelenskyy speaking to him here on the phone.

    Another advisor said he was freed in a "special operation".


    https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1504187687791693834

    OMG.

    Can this be true?

    Putin is getting a total hiding in Ukr.

    Slava Ukraine!

    Ukrainian special forces have had an absolutely incredible war to date. Really, really well trained.
    Did they rescue him? Or did the Russians let him go?

  • kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Seriously, if the reports are correct that is an insane number.

    Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says another Russian general has been killed during fighting...

    He is the fourth general reportedly killed, leading some to ask why such senior members of the Russian military are so close to the front-line.

    Analysts believe that around 20 generals are leading Russian operations in Ukraine, meaning that if all the reported deaths are confirmed, one fifth of Russia's generals have been killed in action.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60767664

    Credit where it's due, they may be war criminals but they aren't General Melchetts.
    Well, not volunteering for the offensive if asked might actually have been a deadlier option dependong on Putin's mood.
    Russian Generals seem to have the security of life expectancy accredited to Archbishops in Blackadder.

    They do seem to have a long track record of running into rather fatal accidents.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:



    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    You may be surprised how quickly time goes by.
    Unlike the show 'As Time Goes By', which went by very slowly.
    One of those successful “unfunny” comedies so popular in the 80s and 90s.

    ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ was the daddy, though.
    Don’t Wait Up, George Layton’s Comedy was of that ilk and Allo Allo certainly outstayed its welcome.
    I think Allo Allo is hilarious and holds up well. A lot of the comedy in the 80's and 90's was very well written. I also find it easier to laugh at things with a laughter track.
    I really liked Allo Allo but, like with Are you Being Served, it probably ran for two too many seasons. They just run out of ideas and repeat gags and catchphrases.

    Well, it was a spoof on one of the best drama series the BBC ever made, and once they’d stolen the spoofable plot lines from its three series, they were bereft of new ideas.
    The real shame about Secret Army was the last episode, one of the very best of the series, was not shown on terrestrial TV. It wasn’t even on the dvd release.

    You Rang My Lord, as a spoof, was far better and only ran for four seasons.
    What makes you say it was one of the best? Insofar as we know about it, it sounds like something of a disaster to me, and better we never saw it.

    The ending wasn’t particularly satisfying, I agree, although it did nicely exemplify how, once the war was over, many were eager to put the whole experience behind them and move on; what had mattered hugely just a few months before suddenly became irrelevant.
    I have seen it a couple of times and I think it works really well. Mind you I know a few people who are not keen and I approached it with no expectation based on that. It is available on YouTube. I cannot see why they couldn’t have released it on DVD.

    There was also the follow up series Kessler which tied up some loose ends. And, touching on what you refer to how people just wanted to put it all behind them, much later on the hunt for justice became much more pronounced.

    I once read David Cesaranis book ‘Justice Delayed’ and was surprised and appalled how we became a haven for former Nazis to start new lives.
    If you mean the never-shown reunion episode, I am pretty sure that’s not on YouTube. If you have a link, I’d be interested.
    It certainly has been although accounts get taken down quite regularly. Poor old archivetvmusings got,taken down recently. He had some decent stuff.

    It is on dailymotion

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7nngc2
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,284

    Chameleon said:

    Belarus Opposition politicians tweeting cryptically tonight:

    "❗️❗️❗️Over the past 3️⃣ hours, about 3️⃣0️⃣ fighter jets, transport planes & helicopters lifted into the sky from #Belarusian airfields in Baranovichi, Gomel, Lida, Luninets❗️
    6️⃣ missiles launched near the city of Kalinkovichi. Explosions are heard in various cities of #Belarus."
    https://twitter.com/PavelLatushka/status/1504200509481173006

    May be nothing...

    Sonic booms, not explosions from what I can tell. Where are those planes heading?

    If it has reached twitter then they'll be wherever they were going already.
    @Flatlander: you were right about the shadow sticks. I didn't reply the other night as I had gone to bed and didn't see you last comment.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    I am currently watching Series 1 of “A French Village”, which is available on Amazon Prime here in the US.

    I don’t believe it is available in the UK.
    They made seven series I think.

    Lowish budget, a bit soapy, but very enjoyable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273
    edited March 2022

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.

    Do you think the Americans would have "allowed" us to strike a city like Cordoba with a nuclear weapon?

    The Americans would have suffered an appalling political backlash throughout Latin America and I'm quite sure Reagan, for all his Anglophilia, would have been strongly advised by his administration the nuclear destruction of a Latin American city would be a catastrophe.

    I suspect, had we got to that point, American political and economic pressure would have been applied to BOTH London and Buenos Aires to broker a diplomatic solution.
    Who cares what the Americans did. We defend our territory at all costs, the Falklands was our territory.

    If the Americans refused to respect that they were not true allies anyway.

    Of course the UN did pressure both sides for a diplomatic solution and if the Argentines had withdrawn their forces from the Falklands one could have been found without further escalation
    Just so I'm clear - if Washington had told us in the event of launching a nuclear attack on Argentina, they (Washington) would impose punitive economic sanctions on the UK, you would still have incinerated Cordoba.

    The worldwide economic and diplomatic consequences of such a course of action would have been extreme - we might well have been thrown out of both NATO and the EEC. The pictures of the incinerated ruins of Cordoba would have been broadcast round the world and would have led to huge sympathy for the Argentines.

    The economic impact would have been no less severe with a run on sterling and capital flight from the UK leaving us exposed to inflation and renewed unemployment.

    Have you forgotten the extent to which American economic pressure forced both us and the French to stand down in Suez in 1956?

    Thatcher's Britain would have been as much a pariah state as Putin's Russia is now.
    If you remember the considerable debate over the morality of sinking the Belgrano, Thatcher would have been worse than a pariah at home, too.
    We’d likely have handed her over to the Hague for trial.
    Put it another way.

    The Soviet Union didn't fire nukes, even in its Evil Empire phase.

    The USA didn't fire nukes in Vietnam.

    Crass Putin isn't using them now.

    There is no way that the UK could have used its nuclear weapons in the Falklands without becoming, unambiguously, The Baddies. There's no way of using them without turning civilians into radioactive ash.

    There's a whole episode of Yes, Prime Minister setting this out. If They have them, We need to have them. But only to fire second in a bit of game theory. To use them first is to be a nation-sized suicide bomber.

    Maggie, right to the end, had the class to recognise this. She wouldn't have escalated a war to nuclear level in an attempt to save her Premiership, because it wouldn't have worked.
    The USA did fire the atomic bomb against a Japan which did not have them at the end of WW2.

    The USA and USSR very nearly fired nukes at each other in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Who knows what Putin will do.

    There was an episode of Yes Prime Minister which made clear if the Soviets had broken through West Germany and France they would soon reach the UK.

    UK forces could hold them off for about 48 hours. The PM would therefore have to decide whether to threaten and respond with nuclear weapons or the UK would be under Soviet occupation
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Jesus Christ, people on here are old.

    How old is old?
    I thought I was old.

    Someone upthread was literally in the FCO during the Falklands War.

    I feel like I’m talking to those proverbial civil war widows who can remember playing a bit of how’s-your-father with Ulysses S Grant behind a haystack at Valley Forge.
    I start with the assumption that anyone splenetically commenting on political websites during the working day is about 78 years old

    This assumption has served me well
    Christ! Rumbled in one.

  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,284

    I am currently watching Series 1 of “A French Village”, which is available on Amazon Prime here in the US.

    I don’t believe it is available in the UK.
    They made seven series I think.

    Lowish budget, a bit soapy, but very enjoyable.

    I'm watching a lot of Columbo at the moment, as I don't have the energy to try to work out whodunit.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    I am currently watching Series 1 of “A French Village”, which is available on Amazon Prime here in the US.

    I don’t believe it is available in the UK.
    They made seven series I think.

    Lowish budget, a bit soapy, but very enjoyable.

    Just googled it. Looks an interesting concept. I think you’re right. It is not available here.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,491
    Taz said:

    I am currently watching Series 1 of “A French Village”, which is available on Amazon Prime here in the US.

    I don’t believe it is available in the UK.
    They made seven series I think.

    Lowish budget, a bit soapy, but very enjoyable.

    Just googled it. Looks an interesting concept. I think you’re right. It is not available here.
    if you have a VPN use it to change location then look again on Amazon prime.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    The before and after pictures of the theatre, which reportedly housed many hundreds, are scary.
    Russian occupiers dropped a heavy bomb on the Mariupol Drama Theater, which sheltered up to a thousand civilians escaping the shelling, refugees that lost their homes, Polk Azov says.
    Prior to the bombing, 🇷🇺 media started claiming it was used as a military base

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1504193510752272388

    In contradiction with that lie, other Russian propagandists are claiming Ukraine did it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    ydoethur said:

    Checks in. Finds out that half of PB has followed @HYUFD so far down his Falklands rabbit hole that they have nearly reached Port Stanley. Checks out again. What a waste of @Cyclefree’s excellent header.

    All Cyclefree headers are brilliant, because they are educational about things going on that shock me I didn’t know was happening.
    The grim reality is that they no longer shock me because the crimes she's detailed are all too depressingly predictable.

    And it's not just the police, either. Far too many parts of the public service seem to be developing a corrupt and self-serving attitude that puts themselves above what they're meant to be doing - including, as in this case, teachers.

    And that's even more depressing because knowing as I do how many teachers are battling every day against corruption, incompetence and downright malice to try and keep things afloat, I assume the same is true of many police officers, doctors and even civil servants (although if there are any at the DfE they hide it well).

    But they all get tarred with the same brush.
    Correct me if I'm wrong. In the case in question, the police were called because the young girl was reeking of cannabis. A lot of blame has been pinned on teachers, but teachers wouldn't call the police - it would be the headteacher, or at least a member of senior management, wouldn't it? The subsequent failure to stop the girl being strip-searched in private by the police would fall on the head/senior manager, wouldn't it, rather than 'teachers' in general?
    Yes, and no. It would certainly fall on the DSL who would normally be a member of SLT. However, the DSL is still a teacher.

    In fact, the real failure on this occasion was failing to call the girl's mother at once, and allowing the police to speak to her in the absence of her mother. Even before we get to the strip search. That's such an appalling breach on so many levels we should be talking about prison sentences and bans from teaching.

    If a drugs incident is suspected, you do have to call the police. There isn't a way around that. Where schools try to handle criminal matters in house (vandalism and assault being two obvious ones) because the police can't be arsed, it doesn't usually end well. And when the police are called to a suspected drugs case, a strip search is standard procedure.

    But you also have to call the parents. That is a legal requirement. And at least one of them has to be present when the police are with an underage suspect. As does legal counsel.

    This case is so appalling on so many levels - and yet it looks like it will rest here. No prosecutions. No sackings.

    It's just really unhealthy. A sign of an organisation protecting its people and not the organisation protecting the people.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    I am currently watching Series 1 of “A French Village”, which is available on Amazon Prime here in the US.

    I don’t believe it is available in the UK.
    They made seven series I think.

    Lowish budget, a bit soapy, but very enjoyable.

    I'm watching a lot of Columbo at the moment, as I don't have the energy to try to work out whodunit.
    I’m watching season 3 of Blakes 7, a series from the sixties called ‘Undermind’ and a kids series from the seventies called ‘Follow Me’.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    Seriously, if the reports are correct that is an insane number.

    Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says another Russian general has been killed during fighting...

    He is the fourth general reportedly killed, leading some to ask why such senior members of the Russian military are so close to the front-line.

    Analysts believe that around 20 generals are leading Russian operations in Ukraine, meaning that if all the reported deaths are confirmed, one fifth of Russia's generals have been killed in action.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60767664

    Credit where it's due, they may be war criminals but they aren't General Melchetts.
    Well, not volunteering for the offensive if asked might actually have been a deadlier option dependong on Putin's mood.
    Russian Generals seem to have the security of life expectancy accredited to Archbishops in Blackadder.

    They do seem to have a long track record of running into rather fatal accidents.
    Russian General is up there with Spinal Tap drummer in the life expectancy stakes.

    They aren't being killed by Ukrainians. Just having bizarre gardening accidents....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    NEXTA
    @nexta_tv
    ·
    1h
    The #Serbian state airline, Air Serbia, has cancelled all flights to and from #Russia.

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1504198217004638219
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.

    Do you think the Americans would have "allowed" us to strike a city like Cordoba with a nuclear weapon?

    The Americans would have suffered an appalling political backlash throughout Latin America and I'm quite sure Reagan, for all his Anglophilia, would have been strongly advised by his administration the nuclear destruction of a Latin American city would be a catastrophe.

    I suspect, had we got to that point, American political and economic pressure would have been applied to BOTH London and Buenos Aires to broker a diplomatic solution.
    Who cares what the Americans did. We defend our territory at all costs, the Falklands was our territory.

    If the Americans refused to respect that they were not true allies anyway.

    Of course the UN did pressure both sides for a diplomatic solution and if the Argentines had withdrawn their forces from the Falklands one could have been found without further escalation
    Just so I'm clear - if Washington had told us in the event of launching a nuclear attack on Argentina, they (Washington) would impose punitive economic sanctions on the UK, you would still have incinerated Cordoba.

    The worldwide economic and diplomatic consequences of such a course of action would have been extreme - we might well have been thrown out of both NATO and the EEC. The pictures of the incinerated ruins of Cordoba would have been broadcast round the world and would have led to huge sympathy for the Argentines.

    The economic impact would have been no less severe with a run on sterling and capital flight from the UK leaving us exposed to inflation and renewed unemployment.

    Have you forgotten the extent to which American economic pressure forced both us and the French to stand down in Suez in 1956?

    Thatcher's Britain would have been as much a pariah state as Putin's Russia is now.
    If you remember the considerable debate over the morality of sinking the Belgrano, Thatcher would have been worse than a pariah at home, too.
    We’d likely have handed her over to the Hague for trial.
    Put it another way.

    The Soviet Union didn't fire nukes, even in its Evil Empire phase.

    The USA didn't fire nukes in Vietnam.

    Crass Putin isn't using them now.

    There is no way that the UK could have used its nuclear weapons in the Falklands without becoming, unambiguously, The Baddies. There's no way of using them without turning civilians into radioactive ash.

    There's a whole episode of Yes, Prime Minister setting this out. If They have them, We need to have them. But only to fire second in a bit of game theory. To use them first is to be a nation-sized suicide bomber.

    Maggie, right to the end, had the class to recognise this. She wouldn't have escalated a war to nuclear level in an attempt to save her Premiership, because it wouldn't have worked.
    The USA did fire the atomic bomb against a Japan which did not have them at the end of WW2.

    The USA and USSR very nearly fired nukes at each other in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Who knows what Putin will do.

    There was an episode of Yes Prime Minister which made clear if the Soviets had broken through West Germany and France they would soon reach the UK.

    UK forces could hold them off for about 48 hours. The PM would therefore have to decide whether to threaten and respond with nuclear weapons or the UK would be under Soviet occupation
    THAT is what you took from that exchange in that episode? You utterly missed the point…..
    Not to mention, missed the fact that it was 72 not 48 hours.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.

    Do you think the Americans would have "allowed" us to strike a city like Cordoba with a nuclear weapon?

    The Americans would have suffered an appalling political backlash throughout Latin America and I'm quite sure Reagan, for all his Anglophilia, would have been strongly advised by his administration the nuclear destruction of a Latin American city would be a catastrophe.

    I suspect, had we got to that point, American political and economic pressure would have been applied to BOTH London and Buenos Aires to broker a diplomatic solution.
    Who cares what the Americans did. We defend our territory at all costs, the Falklands was our territory.

    If the Americans refused to respect that they were not true allies anyway.

    Of course the UN did pressure both sides for a diplomatic solution and if the Argentines had withdrawn their forces from the Falklands one could have been found without further escalation
    Just so I'm clear - if Washington had told us in the event of launching a nuclear attack on Argentina, they (Washington) would impose punitive economic sanctions on the UK, you would still have incinerated Cordoba.

    The worldwide economic and diplomatic consequences of such a course of action would have been extreme - we might well have been thrown out of both NATO and the EEC. The pictures of the incinerated ruins of Cordoba would have been broadcast round the world and would have led to huge sympathy for the Argentines.

    The economic impact would have been no less severe with a run on sterling and capital flight from the UK leaving us exposed to inflation and renewed unemployment.

    Have you forgotten the extent to which American economic pressure forced both us and the French to stand down in Suez in 1956?

    Thatcher's Britain would have been as much a pariah state as Putin's Russia is now.
    If you remember the considerable debate over the morality of sinking the Belgrano, Thatcher would have been worse than a pariah at home, too.
    We’d likely have handed her over to the Hague for trial.
    Put it another way.

    The Soviet Union didn't fire nukes, even in its Evil Empire phase.

    The USA didn't fire nukes in Vietnam.

    Crass Putin isn't using them now.

    There is no way that the UK could have used its nuclear weapons in the Falklands without becoming, unambiguously, The Baddies. There's no way of using them without turning civilians into radioactive ash.

    There's a whole episode of Yes, Prime Minister setting this out. If They have them, We need to have them. But only to fire second in a bit of game theory. To use them first is to be a nation-sized suicide bomber.

    Maggie, right to the end, had the class to recognise this. She wouldn't have escalated a war to nuclear level in an attempt to save her Premiership, because it wouldn't have worked.
    The USA did fire the atomic bomb against a Japan which did not have them at the end of WW2.

    The USA and USSR very nearly fired nukes at each other in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Who knows what Putin will do.

    There was an episode of Yes Prime Minister which made clear if the Soviets had broken through West Germany and France they would soon reach the UK.

    UK forces could hold them off for about 48 hours. The PM would therefore have to decide whether to threaten and respond with nuclear weapons or the UK would be under Soviet occupation
    THAT is what you took from that exchange in that episode? You utterly missed the point…..
    If you were in charge quite clearly we would already be under Russian occupation, that is self evident
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,491


    NEXTA
    @nexta_tv
    ·
    1h
    The #Serbian state airline, Air Serbia, has cancelled all flights to and from #Russia.

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1504198217004638219

    I know many will celebrate this, but for a lot of Russians, mostly young and liberal, this is one of the last few escape routs out, now closed.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    I don't know how to link but if you follow the link earlier re the sonic booms etc there is a statement by opposition leaders that sounds quite coup like...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD = Help You Understand Falklands Denouement.

    Hoist Your Union Flag Defiantly

    I get the horrible feeling I am mocking what turns out to be a helpless victim of progeria syndrome, though. HYUFD on paper is the youngest poster here.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    Balrog said:

    I don't know how to link but if you follow the link earlier re the sonic booms etc there is a statement by opposition leaders that sounds quite coup like...

    A nice thought. There are coups I like and coups I don't like.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    I am currently watching Series 1 of “A French Village”, which is available on Amazon Prime here in the US.

    I don’t believe it is available in the UK.
    They made seven series I think.

    Lowish budget, a bit soapy, but very enjoyable.

    Is that the one with two mating frogs hopping across a road full of cyclists that was on BBC last Christmas?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD = Help You Understand Falklands Denouement.

    Hoist Your Union Flag Defiantly

    I get the horrible feeling I am mocking what turns out to be a helpless victim of progeria syndrome, though. HYUFD on paper is the youngest poster here.
    Chameleon and Gallowgate are both younger.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207

    Chameleon said:

    Belarus Opposition politicians tweeting cryptically tonight:

    "❗️❗️❗️Over the past 3️⃣ hours, about 3️⃣0️⃣ fighter jets, transport planes & helicopters lifted into the sky from #Belarusian airfields in Baranovichi, Gomel, Lida, Luninets❗️
    6️⃣ missiles launched near the city of Kalinkovichi. Explosions are heard in various cities of #Belarus."
    https://twitter.com/PavelLatushka/status/1504200509481173006

    May be nothing...

    Sonic booms, not explosions from what I can tell. Where are those planes heading?

    If it has reached twitter then they'll be wherever they were going already.
    This link and look at some of the comments below...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    edited March 2022
    Taz said:

    I am currently watching Series 1 of “A French Village”, which is available on Amazon Prime here in the US.

    I don’t believe it is available in the UK.
    They made seven series I think.

    Lowish budget, a bit soapy, but very enjoyable.

    Just googled it. Looks an interesting concept. I think you’re right. It is not available here.
    I think you’d like it, you should find it somehow.

    I don’t recommend much, 99% of stuff is crap.
    This is pretty good.

    Plus it’s French, and everyone has a mistress.

    The first series is set in 1940 and it warms the cockles of my heart to hear French characters talk about “London” with mingled hope, admiration, desperation, and fear.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,912
    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.

    Do you think the Americans would have "allowed" us to strike a city like Cordoba with a nuclear weapon?

    The Americans would have suffered an appalling political backlash throughout Latin America and I'm quite sure Reagan, for all his Anglophilia, would have been strongly advised by his administration the nuclear destruction of a Latin American city would be a catastrophe.

    I suspect, had we got to that point, American political and economic pressure would have been applied to BOTH London and Buenos Aires to broker a diplomatic solution.
    Who cares what the Americans did. We defend our territory at all costs, the Falklands was our territory.

    If the Americans refused to respect that they were not true allies anyway.

    Of course the UN did pressure both sides for a diplomatic solution and if the Argentines had withdrawn their forces from the Falklands one could have been found without further escalation
    Just so I'm clear - if Washington had told us in the event of launching a nuclear attack on Argentina, they (Washington) would impose punitive economic sanctions on the UK, you would still have incinerated Cordoba.

    The worldwide economic and diplomatic consequences of such a course of action would have been extreme - we might well have been thrown out of both NATO and the EEC. The pictures of the incinerated ruins of Cordoba would have been broadcast round the world and would have led to huge sympathy for the Argentines.

    The economic impact would have been no less severe with a run on sterling and capital flight from the UK leaving us exposed to inflation and renewed unemployment.

    Have you forgotten the extent to which American economic pressure forced both us and the French to stand down in Suez in 1956?

    Thatcher's Britain would have been as much a pariah state as Putin's Russia is now.
    If you remember the considerable debate over the morality of sinking the Belgrano, Thatcher would have been worse than a pariah at home, too.
    We’d likely have handed her over to the Hague for trial.
    Put it another way.

    The Soviet Union didn't fire nukes, even in its Evil Empire phase.

    The USA didn't fire nukes in Vietnam.

    Crass Putin isn't using them now.

    There is no way that the UK could have used its nuclear weapons in the Falklands without becoming, unambiguously, The Baddies. There's no way of using them without turning civilians into radioactive ash.

    There's a whole episode of Yes, Prime Minister setting this out. If They have them, We need to have them. But only to fire second in a bit of game theory. To use them first is to be a nation-sized suicide bomber.

    Maggie, right to the end, had the class to recognise this. She wouldn't have escalated a war to nuclear level in an attempt to save her Premiership, because it wouldn't have worked.
    The USA did fire the atomic bomb against a Japan which did not have them at the end of WW2.

    The USA and USSR very nearly fired nukes at each other in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Who knows what Putin will do.

    There was an episode of Yes Prime Minister which made clear if the Soviets had broken through West Germany and France they would soon reach the UK.

    UK forces could hold them off for about 48 hours. The PM would therefore have to decide whether to threaten and respond with nuclear weapons or the UK would be under Soviet occupation
    THAT is what you took from that exchange in that episode? You utterly missed the point…..
    If you were in charge quite clearly we would already be under Russian occupation, that is self evident
    No I just understand the laws of armed conflict, the proportionate use of force, the mindset of the military, deterrent theory, and the actual U.K. policy on these things.

    I’m a hawk! Compared to many on here I’m a warmonger! You making me look wet says a lot more about you than me.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    edited March 2022
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.

    Do you think the Americans would have "allowed" us to strike a city like Cordoba with a nuclear weapon?

    The Americans would have suffered an appalling political backlash throughout Latin America and I'm quite sure Reagan, for all his Anglophilia, would have been strongly advised by his administration the nuclear destruction of a Latin American city would be a catastrophe.

    I suspect, had we got to that point, American political and economic pressure would have been applied to BOTH London and Buenos Aires to broker a diplomatic solution.
    Who cares what the Americans did. We defend our territory at all costs, the Falklands was our territory.

    If the Americans refused to respect that they were not true allies anyway.

    Of course the UN did pressure both sides for a diplomatic solution and if the Argentines had withdrawn their forces from the Falklands one could have been found without further escalation
    Just so I'm clear - if Washington had told us in the event of launching a nuclear attack on Argentina, they (Washington) would impose punitive economic sanctions on the UK, you would still have incinerated Cordoba.

    The worldwide economic and diplomatic consequences of such a course of action would have been extreme - we might well have been thrown out of both NATO and the EEC. The pictures of the incinerated ruins of Cordoba would have been broadcast round the world and would have led to huge sympathy for the Argentines.

    The economic impact would have been no less severe with a run on sterling and capital flight from the UK leaving us exposed to inflation and renewed unemployment.

    Have you forgotten the extent to which American economic pressure forced both us and the French to stand down in Suez in 1956?

    Thatcher's Britain would have been as much a pariah state as Putin's Russia is now.
    As someone who was in the FCO at the time, I'd just like to say that even a UK threat of nuclear weapons use against a non-nuclear state, let alone their actual use, was unthinkable in 1982.
    How do you know what Thatcher would have done had British conventional forces started to lose the War and her premiership then been at risk of ending in humiliation and British territory lost to invasion without using all means of defence at our disposal?
    He was in the FCO for goodness sake and his statement is factual as you would understand had you been around at the time
    He was not Thatcher was he and Thatcher would have decided not the FCO
    I absolutely would have not had any input into that decision, but you seem oblivious of the fact that the US only just supported our effort to retake the Falklands - we persuaded them by the skin of our teeth. We would have lost all US support for the war had we even hinted at using NW. And without the US helicopter and logistics support, our troops would not even have made it to the Falklands.

    So its time to put your ignorant arse on ignore.
    We got to the Falklands with our aircraft carriers and cruise liners who transported our troops.

    Not due to the US who were effectively little more than neutral in the campaign
    Wrong.

    I mean, just:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgiCechWNCo
    ... made a huge difference.

    (What are the odds The Only True Tory In History has no idea what I'm going on about?)
    @HYUFD go on, do you know what he is referring to because it was the first thing I thought of when you made that post. You are supposed to have a degree in history but you appear to know F All.
    Still not got back to Andy on this one @hyufd. Another one of your historical blunders. I assume you are still looking through Wikipedia to find out what he is talking about. Not a clue.
    @hyufd. Still avoiding this one. Your latest lack of knowledge on the Falklands war. What was Andy refering to? What again have you got spectacularly wrong re the Falklands war.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.

    Do you think the Americans would have "allowed" us to strike a city like Cordoba with a nuclear weapon?

    The Americans would have suffered an appalling political backlash throughout Latin America and I'm quite sure Reagan, for all his Anglophilia, would have been strongly advised by his administration the nuclear destruction of a Latin American city would be a catastrophe.

    I suspect, had we got to that point, American political and economic pressure would have been applied to BOTH London and Buenos Aires to broker a diplomatic solution.
    Who cares what the Americans did. We defend our territory at all costs, the Falklands was our territory.

    If the Americans refused to respect that they were not true allies anyway.

    Of course the UN did pressure both sides for a diplomatic solution and if the Argentines had withdrawn their forces from the Falklands one could have been found without further escalation
    Just so I'm clear - if Washington had told us in the event of launching a nuclear attack on Argentina, they (Washington) would impose punitive economic sanctions on the UK, you would still have incinerated Cordoba.

    The worldwide economic and diplomatic consequences of such a course of action would have been extreme - we might well have been thrown out of both NATO and the EEC. The pictures of the incinerated ruins of Cordoba would have been broadcast round the world and would have led to huge sympathy for the Argentines.

    The economic impact would have been no less severe with a run on sterling and capital flight from the UK leaving us exposed to inflation and renewed unemployment.

    Have you forgotten the extent to which American economic pressure forced both us and the French to stand down in Suez in 1956?

    Thatcher's Britain would have been as much a pariah state as Putin's Russia is now.
    As someone who was in the FCO at the time, I'd just like to say that even a UK threat of nuclear weapons use against a non-nuclear state, let alone their actual use, was unthinkable in 1982.
    How do you know what Thatcher would have done had British conventional forces started to lose the War and her premiership then been at risk of ending in humiliation and British territory lost to invasion without using all means of defence at our disposal?
    He was in the FCO for goodness sake and his statement is factual as you would understand had you been around at the time
    He was not Thatcher was he and Thatcher would have decided not the FCO
    I absolutely would have not had any input into that decision, but you seem oblivious of the fact that the US only just supported our effort to retake the Falklands - we persuaded them by the skin of our teeth. We would have lost all US support for the war had we even hinted at using NW. And without the US helicopter and logistics support, our troops would not even have made it to the Falklands.

    So its time to put your ignorant arse on ignore.
    We got to the Falklands with our aircraft carriers and cruise liners who transported our troops.

    Not due to the US who were effectively little more than neutral in the campaign
    Wrong.

    I mean, just:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgiCechWNCo
    ... made a huge difference.

    (What are the odds The Only True Tory In History has no idea what I'm going on about?)
    @HYUFD go on, do you know what he is referring to because it was the first thing I thought of when you made that post. You are supposed to have a degree in history but you appear to know F All.
    Still not got back to Andy on this one @hyufd. Another one of your historical blunders. I assume you are still looking through Wikipedia to find out what he is talking about. Not a clue.
    @hyufd. Still avoiding this one. Your latest lack of knowledge on the Falklands war. What was Andy refering to? What again have you got spectacularly wrong re the Falklands war.
    He has put up an Ardent defence.

    And it took Ardent twelve hours to sink...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257

    I am currently watching Series 1 of “A French Village”, which is available on Amazon Prime here in the US.

    I don’t believe it is available in the UK.
    They made seven series I think.

    Lowish budget, a bit soapy, but very enjoyable.

    Is that the one with two mating frogs hopping across a road full of cyclists that was on BBC last Christmas?
    No.

    I watched that Emmerdale Farm episode you posted. Dialogue was a bit sparse, but otherwise very good. Beautiful landscape shots! The scene between the young horsewoman and the prodigal son was v enjoyable.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    edited March 2022
    Balrog said:

    I don't know how to link but if you follow the link earlier re the sonic booms etc there is a statement by opposition leaders that sounds quite coup like...

    You just need to cut and past the URL for a website.

    For a tweet click the share button below the tweet and then click the 'copy link to tweet option' and paste that into your post.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598

    Chameleon said:

    Belarus Opposition politicians tweeting cryptically tonight:

    "❗️❗️❗️Over the past 3️⃣ hours, about 3️⃣0️⃣ fighter jets, transport planes & helicopters lifted into the sky from #Belarusian airfields in Baranovichi, Gomel, Lida, Luninets❗️
    6️⃣ missiles launched near the city of Kalinkovichi. Explosions are heard in various cities of #Belarus."
    https://twitter.com/PavelLatushka/status/1504200509481173006

    May be nothing...

    Sonic booms, not explosions from what I can tell. Where are those planes heading?

    If it has reached twitter then they'll be wherever they were going already.
    @Flatlander: you were right about the shadow sticks. I didn't reply the other night as I had gone to bed and didn't see you last comment.
    Ah, thanks - no problem. Smile for summer, frown for winter, straight line for the equinox.

    Makes a change for me to be right about something...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD = Help You Understand Falklands Denouement.

    Hoist Your Union Flag Defiantly

    I get the horrible feeling I am mocking what turns out to be a helpless victim of progeria syndrome, though. HYUFD on paper is the youngest poster here.
    Chameleon and Gallowgate are both younger.
    I am older than HYUFD and Casino Royale, both of whom suffer from some terrible form of fogeyism.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.

    Do you think the Americans would have "allowed" us to strike a city like Cordoba with a nuclear weapon?

    The Americans would have suffered an appalling political backlash throughout Latin America and I'm quite sure Reagan, for all his Anglophilia, would have been strongly advised by his administration the nuclear destruction of a Latin American city would be a catastrophe.

    I suspect, had we got to that point, American political and economic pressure would have been applied to BOTH London and Buenos Aires to broker a diplomatic solution.
    Who cares what the Americans did. We defend our territory at all costs, the Falklands was our territory.

    If the Americans refused to respect that they were not true allies anyway.

    Of course the UN did pressure both sides for a diplomatic solution and if the Argentines had withdrawn their forces from the Falklands one could have been found without further escalation
    Just so I'm clear - if Washington had told us in the event of launching a nuclear attack on Argentina, they (Washington) would impose punitive economic sanctions on the UK, you would still have incinerated Cordoba.

    The worldwide economic and diplomatic consequences of such a course of action would have been extreme - we might well have been thrown out of both NATO and the EEC. The pictures of the incinerated ruins of Cordoba would have been broadcast round the world and would have led to huge sympathy for the Argentines.

    The economic impact would have been no less severe with a run on sterling and capital flight from the UK leaving us exposed to inflation and renewed unemployment.

    Have you forgotten the extent to which American economic pressure forced both us and the French to stand down in Suez in 1956?

    Thatcher's Britain would have been as much a pariah state as Putin's Russia is now.
    If you remember the considerable debate over the morality of sinking the Belgrano, Thatcher would have been worse than a pariah at home, too.
    We’d likely have handed her over to the Hague for trial.
    Put it another way.

    The Soviet Union didn't fire nukes, even in its Evil Empire phase.

    The USA didn't fire nukes in Vietnam.

    Crass Putin isn't using them now.

    There is no way that the UK could have used its nuclear weapons in the Falklands without becoming, unambiguously, The Baddies. There's no way of using them without turning civilians into radioactive ash.

    There's a whole episode of Yes, Prime Minister setting this out. If They have them, We need to have them. But only to fire second in a bit of game theory. To use them first is to be a nation-sized suicide bomber.

    Maggie, right to the end, had the class to recognise this. She wouldn't have escalated a war to nuclear level in an attempt to save her Premiership, because it wouldn't have worked.
    The USA did fire the atomic bomb against a Japan which did not have them at the end of WW2.

    The USA and USSR very nearly fired nukes at each other in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Who knows what Putin will do.

    There was an episode of Yes Prime Minister which made clear if the Soviets had broken through West Germany and France they would soon reach the UK.

    UK forces could hold them off for about 48 hours. The PM would therefore have to decide whether to threaten and respond with nuclear weapons or the UK would be under Soviet occupation
    THAT is what you took from that exchange in that episode? You utterly missed the point…..
    If you were in charge quite clearly we would already be under Russian occupation, that is self evident
    No I just understand the laws of armed conflict, the proportionate use of force, the mindset of the military, deterrent theory, and the actual U.K. policy on these things.

    I’m a hawk! Compared to many on here I’m a warmonger! You making me look wet says a lot more about you than me.
    No you don't. The whole point of a deterrent is you would have to be willing to use it as a last resort of defence.

    You have clearly ruled out ever using it, so it is no longer a deterrent to the enemy
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,284

    Chameleon said:

    Belarus Opposition politicians tweeting cryptically tonight:

    "❗️❗️❗️Over the past 3️⃣ hours, about 3️⃣0️⃣ fighter jets, transport planes & helicopters lifted into the sky from #Belarusian airfields in Baranovichi, Gomel, Lida, Luninets❗️
    6️⃣ missiles launched near the city of Kalinkovichi. Explosions are heard in various cities of #Belarus."
    https://twitter.com/PavelLatushka/status/1504200509481173006

    May be nothing...

    Sonic booms, not explosions from what I can tell. Where are those planes heading?

    If it has reached twitter then they'll be wherever they were going already.
    @Flatlander: you were right about the shadow sticks. I didn't reply the other night as I had gone to bed and didn't see you last comment.
    Ah, thanks - no problem. Smile for summer, frown for winter, straight line for the equinox.

    Makes a change for me to be right about something...
    I just thought it would be polite to admit that I got something wrong...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661

    Chameleon said:

    Belarus Opposition politicians tweeting cryptically tonight:

    "❗️❗️❗️Over the past 3️⃣ hours, about 3️⃣0️⃣ fighter jets, transport planes & helicopters lifted into the sky from #Belarusian airfields in Baranovichi, Gomel, Lida, Luninets❗️
    6️⃣ missiles launched near the city of Kalinkovichi. Explosions are heard in various cities of #Belarus."
    https://twitter.com/PavelLatushka/status/1504200509481173006

    May be nothing...

    Sonic booms, not explosions from what I can tell. Where are those planes heading?

    If it has reached twitter then they'll be wherever they were going already.
    @Flatlander: you were right about the shadow sticks. I didn't reply the other night as I had gone to bed and didn't see you last comment.
    Ah, thanks - no problem. Smile for summer, frown for winter, straight line for the equinox.

    Makes a change for me to be right about something...
    Straight line on Sunday then.
    It's the height of the shadow, no? But doesn't it make a V-shape?


  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,491
    Balrog said:

    I don't know how to link but if you follow the link earlier re the sonic booms etc there is a statement by opposition leaders that sounds quite coup like...

    If it was just a sonic boom of Russian warplanes taking off, but it was thought to be the sound of a mutiny, and as a result lots of people rush to the streets to take part in pro-revolution protests, and they worked and the government was over-throne, that would be very funny!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    edited March 2022

    I am currently watching Series 1 of “A French Village”, which is available on Amazon Prime here in the US.

    I don’t believe it is available in the UK.
    They made seven series I think.

    Lowish budget, a bit soapy, but very enjoyable.

    Is that the one with two mating frogs hopping across a road full of cyclists that was on BBC last Christmas?
    No.

    I watched that Emmerdale Farm episode you posted. Dialogue was a bit sparse, but otherwise very good. Beautiful landscape shots! The scene between the young horsewoman and the prodigal son was v enjoyable.
    It’s brilliant isn’t it! And the scene between them in the pub lounge subtly piss taking barman and sudden finish.
    Slow Soap was the idea. Brilliant idea.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,912
    edited March 2022
    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nope. That was absolutely the point. You were willing to concede defeat.

    Defeat never needed to be conceded as we had a bigger military than Argentina and nuclear weapons unlike them. Thatcher knew that hence she went to war.

    You could have gone through every war in history as to hypotheticals which might have given it a different course, so what.

    Do you think the Americans would have "allowed" us to strike a city like Cordoba with a nuclear weapon?

    The Americans would have suffered an appalling political backlash throughout Latin America and I'm quite sure Reagan, for all his Anglophilia, would have been strongly advised by his administration the nuclear destruction of a Latin American city would be a catastrophe.

    I suspect, had we got to that point, American political and economic pressure would have been applied to BOTH London and Buenos Aires to broker a diplomatic solution.
    Who cares what the Americans did. We defend our territory at all costs, the Falklands was our territory.

    If the Americans refused to respect that they were not true allies anyway.

    Of course the UN did pressure both sides for a diplomatic solution and if the Argentines had withdrawn their forces from the Falklands one could have been found without further escalation
    Just so I'm clear - if Washington had told us in the event of launching a nuclear attack on Argentina, they (Washington) would impose punitive economic sanctions on the UK, you would still have incinerated Cordoba.

    The worldwide economic and diplomatic consequences of such a course of action would have been extreme - we might well have been thrown out of both NATO and the EEC. The pictures of the incinerated ruins of Cordoba would have been broadcast round the world and would have led to huge sympathy for the Argentines.

    The economic impact would have been no less severe with a run on sterling and capital flight from the UK leaving us exposed to inflation and renewed unemployment.

    Have you forgotten the extent to which American economic pressure forced both us and the French to stand down in Suez in 1956?

    Thatcher's Britain would have been as much a pariah state as Putin's Russia is now.
    If you remember the considerable debate over the morality of sinking the Belgrano, Thatcher would have been worse than a pariah at home, too.
    We’d likely have handed her over to the Hague for trial.
    Put it another way.

    The Soviet Union didn't fire nukes, even in its Evil Empire phase.

    The USA didn't fire nukes in Vietnam.

    Crass Putin isn't using them now.

    There is no way that the UK could have used its nuclear weapons in the Falklands without becoming, unambiguously, The Baddies. There's no way of using them without turning civilians into radioactive ash.

    There's a whole episode of Yes, Prime Minister setting this out. If They have them, We need to have them. But only to fire second in a bit of game theory. To use them first is to be a nation-sized suicide bomber.

    Maggie, right to the end, had the class to recognise this. She wouldn't have escalated a war to nuclear level in an attempt to save her Premiership, because it wouldn't have worked.
    The USA did fire the atomic bomb against a Japan which did not have them at the end of WW2.

    The USA and USSR very nearly fired nukes at each other in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Who knows what Putin will do.

    There was an episode of Yes Prime Minister which made clear if the Soviets had broken through West Germany and France they would soon reach the UK.

    UK forces could hold them off for about 48 hours. The PM would therefore have to decide whether to threaten and respond with nuclear weapons or the UK would be under Soviet occupation
    THAT is what you took from that exchange in that episode? You utterly missed the point…..
    If you were in charge quite clearly we would already be under Russian occupation, that is self evident
    No I just understand the laws of armed conflict, the proportionate use of force, the mindset of the military, deterrent theory, and the actual U.K. policy on these things.

    I’m a hawk! Compared to many on here I’m a warmonger! You making me look wet says a lot more about you than me.
    No you don't. The whole point of a deterrent is you would have to be willing to use it as a last resort of defence.

    You have clearly ruled out ever using it, so it is no longer a deterrent to the enemy
    No I haven’t. You’re just making stuff up. Thinking it’s evil to use nukes in a first strike against a non-nuclear power is just …. normal. I know every Trident captain would agree with me.

    We have nuclear weapons to deter other nuclear weapons. We would only ever use them in that context. We don’t have a tactical nuke or the doctrine for their use.
This discussion has been closed.