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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LDs and LAB the gainers in today’s FOUR new voting inte

13

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  • taffys said:

    You make some passionate points Rochdale, but has Ed Milliband in fact promised to restore the benefits system to its much more generous 2010 model?

    No. As far as I can see, the only coalition reform he is promising to undo is the bedroom tax.

    So far. But if we end up on a battle of relatively minor details then it'll be a turnoff for everyone they are trying to talk to. For example having voted against any rises in the minimum wage as unaffordable, Osborne has abruptly decided that a rise is a Good Thing. After the election. If the independent commission agrees. For Labour to win this argument it has to show that they understand people and can be trusted to deliver and the Tories can't.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Why isn't Miliband playing safe? Ukip.
  • MrJones said:

    Why isn't Miliband playing safe? Ukip.

    Now, that is an interesting answer, and one I hadn't thought of at all.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Neil said:

    Neil said:


    I voted for Huhne is 2005 and 2007 and still think he'd have made a good leader.

    He would have been a good leader .. right up until his guilty plea! Talk about a bullet dodged. Though would he have cast his partner aside in the same manner had he been leader?
    I suspect things would have been different in that regard if he'd been leader

    A Huhnasm just sounds disgusting though ;)
    Yes. Equally hard to swallow

  • Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    edited January 2014

    taffys said:

    You make some passionate points Rochdale, but has Ed Milliband in fact promised to restore the benefits system to its much more generous 2010 model?

    No. As far as I can see, the only coalition reform he is promising to undo is the bedroom tax.

    So far. But if we end up on a battle of relatively minor details then it'll be a turnoff for everyone they are trying to talk to. For example having voted against any rises in the minimum wage as unaffordable, Osborne has abruptly decided that a rise is a Good Thing. After the election. If the independent commission agrees. For Labour to win this argument it has to show that they understand people and can be trusted to deliver and the Tories can't.
    It strikes me from the conversations both ways that the Tories really need to bring out that old staple 'Compassionate Conservatism' - I suspect that Dave and George aren't really the ones that are able to sell it effectively though. On the other hand, as the Economy continues to improve Ed really needs to be able to sell 'Responsible not Reckless' with the countries finances which again I struggle to see him and Balls doing successfully.

    Given that, there is much to play for - and potentially space for the Libs, UKIP and possibly others to say 'there is another way / we will keep the balance'
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    I think the way Huhne has been treated is shocking ! The crime is transferring 3 points to his wife who obliged. Thousands happen every month. Those who are in the sales world know this very well since many a sales job depends on a driving licence. Spouses are happy to oblige. Perhaps for a wrong reason but they prefer the bread on the table.

    Does this crime fit a jail sentence ? Did he kill any one ? He didn't even lie on oath. He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    surbiton said:

    He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Didnt he plead guilty because he was, in fact, guilty?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    surbiton said:

    I think the way Huhne has been treated is shocking ! The crime is transferring 3 points to his wife who obliged. Thousands happen every month. Those who are in the sales world know this very well since many a sales job depends on a driving licence. Spouses are happy to oblige. Perhaps for a wrong reason but they prefer the bread on the table.

    Does this crime fit a jail sentence ? Did he kill any one ? He didn't even lie on oath. He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    I think that until this case (and a few other high profile cases) came up, most people were unaware just how hostile the judiciary are to this activity.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    taffys said:

    You make some passionate points Rochdale, but has Ed Milliband in fact promised to restore the benefits system to its much more generous 2010 model?

    No. As far as I can see, the only coalition reform he is promising to undo is the bedroom tax.

    So far. But if we end up on a battle of relatively minor details then it'll be a turnoff for everyone they are trying to talk to. For example having voted against any rises in the minimum wage as unaffordable, Osborne has abruptly decided that a rise is a Good Thing. After the election. If the independent commission agrees. For Labour to win this argument it has to show that they understand people and can be trusted to deliver and the Tories can't.
    I think that Labour have no problem with the "understanding people" side of this argument. It's the "trusted to deliver" side where they're struggling.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    Russian prisons are scarier than US ones.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Neil said:

    RodCrosby said:
    Hmm putting someone with a Scouse accent into a pretty unpromising Greater Manchester seat? I dont think it would be the best career move for Nutall. Let the previous candidate stand - he'll blow off the old fogey image straight away.
    I always enjoy the comments under kipper related articles. They are bat shit, foaming at the mouth, carpet chewing mental. There is always the faintest whiff of wherthers originals, as well, which is nice.
  • surbiton said:

    I think the way Huhne has been treated is shocking ! The crime is transferring 3 points to his wife who obliged. Thousands happen every month. Those who are in the sales world know this very well since many a sales job depends on a driving licence. Spouses are happy to oblige. Perhaps for a wrong reason but they prefer the bread on the table.

    Does this crime fit a jail sentence ? Did he kill any one ? He didn't even lie on oath. He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Given the number of your gang that are doing time, I'm not surprised that you find the thought of a goverment minister lying, cheating on his wife and committing a crime perfectly acceptable.
    The guy was a dangerous driver, but was just too arrogant to think the laws applied to him. I hope he never gets near government again.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    I don't think I'd recommend it. People who offend Mr. Putin have a habit of falling out of windows, or dying of radiation poisoning.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Sean_F said:

    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    I don't think I'd recommend it. People who offend Mr. Putin have a habit of falling out of windows, or dying of radiation poisoning.

    And, to be fair, while I have enough leave for a short, one man protest I dont have enough for an extended period of detention without trial.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Pulpstar said:

    Neil said:

    RodCrosby said:
    Hmm putting someone with a Scouse accent into a pretty unpromising Greater Manchester seat? I dont think it would be the best career move for Nutall. Let the previous candidate stand - he'll blow off the old fogey image straight away.
    I have a horrible feeling UKIP are dialling up the expectation management way too high in this seat.
    That is spot on. UKIP are now being scrutinised much more and expectation management is crucial. They got a huge boost out of Eastleigh because their 2nd place was such a surprise and out of line with the polling. Now they are expected to win EP2014 so a victory will look less of a story.

    I meant in Wythenshawe, but yes agree it applies to the Euros too.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    MrJones said:

    Why isn't Miliband playing safe? Ukip.

    Now, that is an interesting answer, and one I hadn't thought of at all.
    Labour are a three-legged stool and one of the legs hates them for what they did but are trapped - largely by their own nurse-clingy reluctance to jump to a different stool.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    MrJones said:

    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    Russian prisons are scarier than US ones.
    You're exaggerating. With nice Mr Putin in charge I'm sure it's much more Wizard of Oz than Oz.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    MrJones said:

    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    Russian prisons are scarier than US ones.
    Supposedly, more men than women get raped each year in the USA, due to the nature of its prisons. Presumably, Russia is even worse.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Sean_F said:

    MrJones said:

    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    Russian prisons are scarier than US ones.
    Supposedly, more men than women get raped each year in the USA, due to the nature of its prisons. Presumably, Russia is even worse.

    From what i've heard from people who've been over there, yeah. Ruskies - or maybe it's just the Chechens - are scary bleeps.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PCollinsTimes: Nobody has yet asked the important question about Ed M's bank speech which is: what does Nick think? The Lib Dems will have to consent
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    I think the way Huhne has been treated is shocking ! The crime is transferring 3 points to his wife who obliged. Thousands happen every month. Those who are in the sales world know this very well since many a sales job depends on a driving licence. Spouses are happy to oblige. Perhaps for a wrong reason but they prefer the bread on the table.

    Does this crime fit a jail sentence ? Did he kill any one ? He didn't even lie on oath. He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Given the number of your gang that are doing time, I'm not surprised that you find the thought of a goverment minister lying, cheating on his wife and committing a crime perfectly acceptable.
    The guy was a dangerous driver, but was just too arrogant to think the laws applied to him. I hope he never gets near government again.

    So every driver who passes off 3 points to his/her spouse gets 8 months in jail ? Remember, there was no other offence since he did not commit perjury.

    The law is supposed to be equal for everybody - not worse for a cabinet minister.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    I think the way Huhne has been treated is shocking ! The crime is transferring 3 points to his wife who obliged. Thousands happen every month. Those who are in the sales world know this very well since many a sales job depends on a driving licence. Spouses are happy to oblige. Perhaps for a wrong reason but they prefer the bread on the table.

    Does this crime fit a jail sentence ? Did he kill any one ? He didn't even lie on oath. He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Given the number of your gang that are doing time, I'm not surprised that you find the thought of a goverment minister lying, cheating on his wife and committing a crime perfectly acceptable.
    The guy was a dangerous driver, but was just too arrogant to think the laws applied to him. I hope he never gets near government again.

    So every driver who passes off 3 points to his/her spouse gets 8 months in jail ? Remember, there was no other offence since he did not commit perjury.

    The law is supposed to be equal for everybody - not worse for a cabinet minister.
    If caught, I believe so yes - that is perjury - knowingly making a false declaration to the police about an offence.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Neil said:

    surbiton said:

    He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Didnt he plead guilty because he was, in fact, guilty?
    OK, even so, this equates to a prison sentence ? 3 f*cking points. I bet a few hundred such "transfers" took place today !
  • surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    I think the way Huhne has been treated is shocking ! The crime is transferring 3 points to his wife who obliged. Thousands happen every month. Those who are in the sales world know this very well since many a sales job depends on a driving licence. Spouses are happy to oblige. Perhaps for a wrong reason but they prefer the bread on the table.

    Does this crime fit a jail sentence ? Did he kill any one ? He didn't even lie on oath. He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Given the number of your gang that are doing time, I'm not surprised that you find the thought of a goverment minister lying, cheating on his wife and committing a crime perfectly acceptable.
    The guy was a dangerous driver, but was just too arrogant to think the laws applied to him. I hope he never gets near government again.

    So every driver who passes off 3 points to his/her spouse gets 8 months in jail ? Remember, there was no other offence since he did not commit perjury.

    The law is supposed to be equal for everybody - not worse for a cabinet minister.
    Yes, I do actually believe that. The points are there to act as a deterrent, if you're such a bad driver that you clock up points, you get banned. Getting someone to take the points mean that dangerous drivers get to stay on the road.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    I think the way Huhne has been treated is shocking ! The crime is transferring 3 points to his wife who obliged. Thousands happen every month. Those who are in the sales world know this very well since many a sales job depends on a driving licence. Spouses are happy to oblige. Perhaps for a wrong reason but they prefer the bread on the table.

    Does this crime fit a jail sentence ? Did he kill any one ? He didn't even lie on oath. He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Given the number of your gang that are doing time, I'm not surprised that you find the thought of a goverment minister lying, cheating on his wife and committing a crime perfectly acceptable.
    The guy was a dangerous driver, but was just too arrogant to think the laws applied to him. I hope he never gets near government again.

    So every driver who passes off 3 points to his/her spouse gets 8 months in jail ? Remember, there was no other offence since he did not commit perjury.

    The law is supposed to be equal for everybody - not worse for a cabinet minister.
    Of course, you could look at the facts:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/414490/Jail-for-police-chief-who-got-friend-to-take-speed-points
    http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Driver-got-partner-licence-speeding-points/story-19790501-detail/story.html
    http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/np/wolverhampton/news/newsitem.asp?id=16015
    http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2012/june/19/speeding_points.aspx

    From both before and after the Huhne / Pryce case. The courts don't seem to like it, and for good reason.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    surbiton said:

    Neil said:

    surbiton said:

    He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Didnt he plead guilty because he was, in fact, guilty?
    OK, even so, this equates to a prison sentence ? 3 f*cking points. I bet a few hundred such "transfers" took place today !
    Maybe the sentencing remarks might help the penny drop but I doubt it:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9923143/Chris-Huhne-and-Vicky-Pryce-jailed-judges-sentencing-remarks-in-full.html
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    surbiton said:

    Neil said:

    surbiton said:

    He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Didnt he plead guilty because he was, in fact, guilty?
    OK, even so, this equates to a prison sentence ? 3 f*cking points. I bet a few hundred such "transfers" took place today !
    He lied to the police and the justice system.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    TGOHF said:

    surbiton said:

    Neil said:

    surbiton said:

    He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Didnt he plead guilty because he was, in fact, guilty?
    OK, even so, this equates to a prison sentence ? 3 f*cking points. I bet a few hundred such "transfers" took place today !
    He lied to the police and the justice system.
    Both of them lied and lied right through the process, until CH "surrendered" at the 11th hour. Even then it wasn't his conscience but his belated concern for his family that prompted his change of mind.

    There's nothing worse than clever man (or woman) being a d**n fool!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Even brown noser Riddell is unimpressed by Ed's grand day out.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/maryriddell/100255371/ed-miliband-the-wolf-of-main-street-should-beware-of-picking-unnecessary-fights/

    "This was a brave speech, even if it lacked detail and soundbites."

    Lol.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Mind you prison sounds like light relief compared to living with Vicky Pryce !
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jeremy Warner less polite than Ms Riddell

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10576851/Whipping-the-bankers-as-proposed-by-Ed-Miliband-is-not-the-solution.html

    "the never-ending drip feed of populist nonsense that passes for today’s financial reform agenda."
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    Pulpstar said:

    Mind you prison sounds like light relief compared to living with Vicky Pryce !

    Although, by that stage he wasn't living with her... which was where the whole thing started of course.

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    UKIP have a perfectly good keen young local candidate , Chis Cassidy , willing to stand in Wythensawe who has great local experience of fighting council elections in the constituency . He also fought the Parliamentary by election of Manchester Central . UKIP will make a big error if they impose someone nationally on the local party .
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Taken one for the team eh ?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25787095

    "The Unite union has confirmed that it has employed Stevie Deans, the former union convenor at the Ineos petrochemicals plant in Grangemouth."

    Must be the "new politics"...
  • MrJones said:

    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    Russian prisons are scarier than US ones.
    I'd always thought that, but contra intuitively I heard one of the Greenpeace protestors talking about their imprisonment in the St Petersburg jail say that though physical conditions were grim they were treated with the utmost kindness & civility by both inmates and staff (much to the chagrin of many on here no doubt). Now, he may have been sucking up to the Russians or the Russians were treating him with kid gloves, but it's always interesting when expectations are confounded.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Congratulations to Hamish Mcdonell, who has managed to write an entire blogpost about a YouGov subsample:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/01/europe-will-affect-the-scots-referendum-but-not-in-the-way-everyone-expects/

    An early contender for the worst psephology of the year?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    I think the way Huhne has been treated is shocking ! The crime is transferring 3 points to his wife who obliged. Thousands happen every month. Those who are in the sales world know this very well since many a sales job depends on a driving licence. Spouses are happy to oblige. Perhaps for a wrong reason but they prefer the bread on the table.

    Does this crime fit a jail sentence ? Did he kill any one ? He didn't even lie on oath. He pleaded guilty so that his son would not have to be a witness.

    Given the number of your gang that are doing time, I'm not surprised that you find the thought of a goverment minister lying, cheating on his wife and committing a crime perfectly acceptable.
    The guy was a dangerous driver, but was just too arrogant to think the laws applied to him. I hope he never gets near government again.

    So every driver who passes off 3 points to his/her spouse gets 8 months in jail ? Remember, there was no other offence since he did not commit perjury.

    The law is supposed to be equal for everybody - not worse for a cabinet minister.
    Of course, you could look at the facts:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/414490/Jail-for-police-chief-who-got-friend-to-take-speed-points
    http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Driver-got-partner-licence-speeding-points/story-19790501-detail/story.html
    http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/np/wolverhampton/news/newsitem.asp?id=16015
    http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2012/june/19/speeding_points.aspx

    From both before and after the Huhne / Pryce case. The courts don't seem to like it, and for good reason.
    That tells a lot about our courts and the "justice system" ! Murderers and rapists come out of prison on parole after a few years and 3 point passers and tv licence non payers go to prison.

    Great system !
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Chris Cassidy might become the youngest MP if he were to win Wythenshawe for UKIP. I don't know how old he is but I think he's younger than Baby of the House Pamela Nash who's 29.
  • Another example of the 'austerity' we have with retails sales reaching yet another all time high.

    Let us make some comparisons with the changes to present from May 2010:

    Retail sales +6%
    Industrial production -3%

    That economic 'rebalancing' is going well isn't it.

    Or let us make some comparisons with 25 years ago:

    Retail sales +79%
    Industrial production -4%

    Ever wondered where the trillion plus quid in extra government debt and the trillion plus quid in extra houshold debt went ?
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    MrJones said:

    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    Russian prisons are scarier than US ones.
    I'd always thought that, but contra intuitively I heard one of the Greenpeace protestors talking about their imprisonment in the St Petersburg jail say that though physical conditions were grim they were treated with the utmost kindness & civility by both inmates and staff (much to the chagrin of many on here no doubt). Now, he may have been sucking up to the Russians or the Russians were treating him with kid gloves, but it's always interesting when expectations are confounded.

    My expectations would have been kid gloves.
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited January 2014
    surbiton said:

    That tells a lot about our courts and the "justice system" ! Murderers and rapists come out of prison on parole after a few years and 3 point passers and tv licence non payers go to prison.Great system !

    Perverting the course of public justice is a particularly serious offence. It includes conduct which if repeated on a large scale (i.e. misleading the police, tampering with witnesses, evidence or jurors etc.) would cause the entire legal system to break down. It is essential therefore that it is proceeded against and punished by hefty deterrent sentences.
  • Looks like another proper power station is heading for early retirement:

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jan/16/unions-850-job-losses-eggborough-power-station

    Clearly the government thinks HS2 fatcats are more important than keeping the lights on:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10579479/HS2-hire-Network-Rail-chief-on-750000-a-year.html
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    Neil said:

    MrJones said:

    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    Russian prisons are scarier than US ones.
    You're exaggerating. With nice Mr Putin in charge I'm sure it's much more Wizard of Oz than Oz.

    Neil

    You really must spend some time trying to understand Russian jokes.

    Putin's comment on gays, children and Sochi is a perfect example. It illustrates exactly why Obama intensely dislikes Putin and considers him to be a self-indulgent, childish provocateur.

    And Putin has played up to this caricature in his latest statement. He is fully aware of the indignant reaction his remark will receive in the Western press. It is the reason why there is a bounce in Putin's step as he chuckles his way through the gilded corridors of the Kremlin. It is also the reason why he retains his popularity with the Russian majority.

    Russian humour thrives on being two-edged: the best jokes laugh at both friend and foe. Their purpose is to expose hypocrisy and question taboos. The subject of Putin's 'joke' is the new international imperative of inclusiveness and acceptance. It would be wrong to interpret the joke as being exclusively hostile: it can just as legitimately be interpreted as an official endorsement.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Richard, not sure if you saw but I've posted a couple of times (a little while ago) about Eggborough. it's been a big story on Look North (local news) quite a few times as well.

    A story I read a few weeks ago suggested if it shuts prices could rise by 10%. It's crazy we're subsidising wind farms and letting coal-fired power stations (which, amazingly, work even if it's very or not at all windy) close.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    UKIP's chances higher with Cassidy than with Nuttall I think.

    Also importantly he is less high profile if it goes wrong.

    They should go with Cassidy
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471

    Looks like another proper power station is heading for early retirement:

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jan/16/unions-850-job-losses-eggborough-power-station

    Clearly the government thinks HS2 fatcats are more important than keeping the lights on:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10579479/HS2-hire-Network-Rail-chief-on-750000-a-year.html

    I'm not defending that HS2 pay (can't read the article, though).

    As for Eggborough: they wanted to move to biomass which, at that scale, is braindead. The reason they may well have wanted to move is ... yep, you've guessed it, Ed Miliband's pandering to Z-list celebrities a few years back.

    I'e just looked in Wiki, and Eggborough opened in 1970. That means it must be getting rather long in the tooth, even with relatively new turbines.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Commentisfree is running a poll on the question "Will Miliband's banking plans work?"

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/poll/2014/jan/17/will-ed-miliband-banking-plans-work

    Right now, it's running 49% Yes, 51% No.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Jessop, from what I heard on the local news some time ago, the shift to biomass was in response to the rising government taxes (or charges) on coal powered energy, not something the plant decided to do entirely off its own bat. Drax has been government support to shift to biomass, Eggborough has not.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited January 2014
    @RochdalePioneer

    EdM is capitalising on peoples' fear. They have been through quite a dramatic few years including seeing queues round the corner at a hitherto safe mortgage bank and being told that the end of the banking system and therefore society was nigh and all this after several years of artificially low interest rates and therefore excessive public and private debt and therefore a very comfortable life.

    And now we are on cold turkey.

    We have the Cons with Austerity-lite because not even the heartless baby-munching Tories dared rebase our economy to the degree it needed but this nevertheless (and of course any govt would have done similarly) has angered the bejeezus out of everyone. Our toys have been taken away and we have been sent to our room.

    So of course people are looking around for someone to blame and an easy route back to the good life. Hence the UKIP hell-in-a-handbasketeers and Lab on surreally high ratings. EdM exacerbates this by picking random pantomime villains and telling everyone how he will sort it out.

    But, and this is the rub, love it or hate it we live in a capitalist country in a capitalist market-driven world and so the scope we have to do much at all is very very limited. Despite eg @Alanbrooke's vituperation, I am amazed that GO has managed to steer his path so carefully avoiding calamitous capital market ratings or riots at home. Of course he had to sacrifice some targets.

    The thing is though, and in answer to @RichardNabavi also, EdM knows this and he loses my respect because he is putting his pursuit of power (cf. the Syria vote) ahead of what is good for the country. That said, once elected, you will find his direction of travel and supporting policies won't change that much at all.
  • Mr. Richard, not sure if you saw but I've posted a couple of times (a little while ago) about Eggborough. it's been a big story on Look North (local news) quite a few times as well.

    A story I read a few weeks ago suggested if it shuts prices could rise by 10%. It's crazy we're subsidising wind farms and letting coal-fired power stations (which, amazingly, work even if it's very or not at all windy) close.

    Ferrybridge is due to shut as well in a year or so.

    We're lucky that Drax B was built during the Thatcher government or they'd be aiming to close that station down as well.

    Meanwhile:

    "Ten new hard-coal power stations, or 7,985 megawatts, are scheduled to start producing electricity in the next two years."

    http://www.thegwpf.org/germany-open-10-coal-fired-power-stations/

    Perhaps the EU worshippers can explain why one EU country, the UK, is shutting its coal power stations as fast as it can while another EU country, Germany, is building new coal power stations as fast it can.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471

    Mr. Jessop, from what I heard on the local news some time ago, the shift to biomass was in response to the rising government taxes (or charges) on coal powered energy, not something the plant decided to do entirely off its own bat. Drax has been government support to shift to biomass, Eggborough has not.

    Yes, that's sorta what I meant. The whole energy market has been distorted beyond reason by green energy.

    Energy security (both in terms of security of supply and generation) has to be high on any government's agenda. It wasn't on Labour's, and although the coalition are a little better, there's still some really big problems.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP's chances higher with Cassidy than with Nuttall I think.

    Also importantly he is less high profile if it goes wrong.

    They should go with Cassidy

    Going with Nuttall in what seems an unlikely seat for UKIP (if we use betting odds as a guide they have roughly a 85% chance of losing) seems a bit of a waste I suppose... especially if there is a reluctance for Mancunians to vote Scouse!

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Richard, ironically, the answer is the same - the environment.

    Germany had a bizarre over-reaction to Fukushima, when its politicians forgot they don't get tsunamis and earthquakes and decided that shutting all the nuclear power plants was a good idea. In Britain the warmery of all our political leaders has led them to decide emitting carbon dioxide is pure evil, and so our coal-powered power stations should be closed. It's bloody stupid.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,348
    antifrank said:

    Congratulations to Hamish Mcdonell, who has managed to write an entire blogpost about a YouGov subsample:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/01/europe-will-affect-the-scots-referendum-but-not-in-the-way-everyone-expects/

    An early contender for the worst psephology of the year?

    Not much of the year yet ... I don't know the sample size so can't comment if he is likely to get the wooden spoon. But his conclusion IS in fact pretty consistent with other polling over the last year - that the Scots love the EU (or don't un-love it) as much as the UK as a whole, and that this is going to be a factor (especially the choice between a Tory-ruled UK out in the cold, and a bridgehead between EWNI and the EU as some companies relocate HQs north of the Border to replace the casino banks who will admittedly depart for deregulated freedom and liberty in London).

    It's been glaringly evident for months and much discussed in Scotland, e.g. http://wingsoverscotland.com/them-and-them-and-us/#more-40218 reports another survey (not for the SNP!), for instance.

    The importance of this is that even the Speccie is beginning to notice the issue - and did you notice something else, his flat out assumption that Scotland would remain in the EU nae probs at all?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,348
    edited January 2014

    Mr. Richard, ironically, the answer is the same - the environment.

    Germany had a bizarre over-reaction to Fukushima, when its politicians forgot they don't get tsunamis and earthquakes and decided that shutting all the nuclear power plants was a good idea. In Britain the warmery of all our political leaders has led them to decide emitting carbon dioxide is pure evil, and so our coal-powered power stations should be closed. It's bloody stupid.

    You do get tsunamis in Britain! If not necessarily quite the same genesis. A whacking great one (caused by an undersea landslide off Norway) did huge damage in Mesolithic times*, and it is a real concern whether other landslides, perhaps triggered by methane clathrate eruptions in the sea floor [sold methane suddenly turning to gas form], could cause more.

    Though I am less certain about the cause of the Brstol Channel flood of the 17th century - maybe that was just a storm + high tide surge rathe rthan an earthquake.

    * Relatively speaking. Not many nukes. But it must have been hellish for the locals.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP's chances higher with Cassidy than with Nuttall I think.

    Also importantly he is less high profile if it goes wrong.

    They should go with Cassidy

    Going with Nuttall in what seems an unlikely seat for UKIP (if we use betting odds as a guide they have roughly a 85% chance of losing) seems a bit of a waste I suppose... especially if there is a reluctance for Mancunians to vote Scouse!

    I reckon UKIP will get 2nd place (Though I don't fancy the bet at 1/2) but it depends if it is a poor 2nd or if Labour are pushed to the line (I suspect the former)
  • Interesting new programme on the BBC:

    Ed'll Fix It
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    edited January 2014
    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    Please tell me you aren't buying into the nonsense that Ed Miliband's speech had a direct causal effect on the Lloyds share price ?

    I've got you down as a sensible man !


  • I'e just looked in Wiki, and Eggborough opened in 1970. That means it must be getting rather long in the tooth, even with relatively new turbines.

    With the exception of Drax B all the coal power station were built either side of 1970.

    We've also managed to build the grand total of one nuclear power station - Sizewell B - in the last 30 years.

    And the earliest 1990s gas power stations are now being closed.

    There's many areas where the political establishment seem out of touch with reality but is there any more severe than energy security.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Interesting new programme on the BBC:

    Ed'll Fix It

    I thought that program was MODERATED will fix it !
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    TGOHF said:

    Taken one for the team eh ?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25787095

    "The Unite union has confirmed that it has employed Stevie Deans, the former union convenor at the Ineos petrochemicals plant in Grangemouth."

    Must be the "new politics"...

    It said it has been trying to get Mr Deans to work for the union for a number of years.

    I'm sure Grangemouth felt the same...

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411



    I'e just looked in Wiki, and Eggborough opened in 1970. That means it must be getting rather long in the tooth, even with relatively new turbines.

    With the exception of Drax B all the coal power station were built either side of 1970.

    We've also managed to build the grand total of one nuclear power station - Sizewell B - in the last 30 years.

    And the earliest 1990s gas power stations are now being closed.

    There's many areas where the political establishment seem out of touch with reality but is there any more severe than energy security.
    Power isn't something you can easily print ...like money.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP's chances higher with Cassidy than with Nuttall I think.

    Also importantly he is less high profile if it goes wrong.

    They should go with Cassidy

    Going with Nuttall in what seems an unlikely seat for UKIP (if we use betting odds as a guide they have roughly a 85% chance of losing) seems a bit of a waste I suppose... especially if there is a reluctance for Mancunians to vote Scouse!

    I reckon UKIP will get 2nd place (Though I don't fancy the bet at 1/2) but it depends if it is a poor 2nd or if Labour are pushed to the line (I suspect the former)
    I'd rather lay UKIP at 1/2 to finish second in this seat than back them. It doesn't look very promising terrain for them at first blush.

    I'm not sure how I'd feel at evens.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    That his speech moved share prices indicates that the moneyed men think he`s going to be PM.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AveryLP said:

    Neil said:

    MrJones said:

    Neil said:

    Reassuring words from Mr Putin ...

    Russian President Vladimir Putin says gays should feel welcome at the upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi, but they must "leave the children in peace".

    http://news.uk.msn.com/world/putin-warns-gays-going-to-sochi

    I've got quite a bit of annual leave to use up. The thought of a quick flight to Sochi and a one man protest outside the opening ceremony becomes more and more appealing. Russian prisons are probably very safe as I imagine Putin has banned sex in them.
    Russian prisons are scarier than US ones.
    You're exaggerating. With nice Mr Putin in charge I'm sure it's much more Wizard of Oz than Oz.

    Neil

    You really must spend some time trying to understand Russian jokes.

    Putin's comment on gays, children and Sochi is a perfect example. It illustrates exactly why Obama intensely dislikes Putin and considers him to be a self-indulgent, childish provocateur.

    And Putin has played up to this caricature in his latest statement. He is fully aware of the indignant reaction his remark will receive in the Western press. It is the reason why there is a bounce in Putin's step as he chuckles his way through the gilded corridors of the Kremlin. It is also the reason why he retains his popularity with the Russian majority.

    Russian humour thrives on being two-edged: the best jokes laugh at both friend and foe. Their purpose is to expose hypocrisy and question taboos. The subject of Putin's 'joke' is the new international imperative of inclusiveness and acceptance. It would be wrong to interpret the joke as being exclusively hostile: it can just as legitimately be interpreted as an official endorsement.
    Avery, I'm not sure the kids getting gay bashed on the streets of Russian cities are in on the joke.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    C4 News saying that Clegg is considering complaints that Rennard's refusal to apologise has "brought the Lib Dems into disrepute" - grounds for expulsion from the party.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP's chances higher with Cassidy than with Nuttall I think.

    Also importantly he is less high profile if it goes wrong.

    They should go with Cassidy

    Going with Nuttall in what seems an unlikely seat for UKIP (if we use betting odds as a guide they have roughly a 85% chance of losing) seems a bit of a waste I suppose... especially if there is a reluctance for Mancunians to vote Scouse!

    I reckon UKIP will get 2nd place (Though I don't fancy the bet at 1/2) but it depends if it is a poor 2nd or if Labour are pushed to the line (I suspect the former)
    I'd rather lay UKIP at 1/2 to finish second in this seat than back them. It doesn't look very promising terrain for them at first blush.

    I'm not sure how I'd feel at evens.
    Backed CON 2nd for 1 whole English pound... (3-1)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    SMukesh said:

    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    That his speech moved share prices indicates that the moneyed men think he`s going to be PM.
    No, it means that they think that there is a risk that he will be and that that would be a very bad thing. I think that is a pretty fair assessment myself.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Interesting new programme on the BBC:

    Ed'll Fix It

    I thought that program was MODERATED will fix it !
    You would get more sense out of Mr. Ed than Miliband.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    Pulpstar said:



    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    Please tell me you aren't buying into the nonsense that Ed Miliband's speech had a direct causal effect on the Lloyds share price ?

    I've got you down as a sensible man !
    It will have had an effect on Lloyds's share price. FTSE 100 index up 0.2% today whereas Lloyds Bank Group fell by 0.7% (Day high = £0.8449, day low = £0.8269, close = £0.8352)

    But the range of movement today falls broadly within the highs and lows of the last five days (high= £0.86 and low =£0.82). So the reaction to Ed's speech cannot be described as a market panic.

    Most investors in Lloyds's shares will regard Miliband's statement today as empty headed electioneering rather than a real threat to the value of their holdings.

    But there will now be calls for UK Financial Investments Ltd (the government controlled organisation which holds and sells shares in the intervened banks) to protect investor value in the event that a future government decides to split up the bank. An Osborne 'poison pill' is almost certainly being developed by the Treasury as we speak.

    Provided the Treasury handle the new risk effectively I see little long term damage being done to shares in the intervened banks as a result of Miliband's nonsense.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Ouch! C4 News continuing the Rennard story "Who runs the Lib Dems, Nick Clegg, or the unelected peer, Lord Rennard....
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    DavidL said:

    SMukesh said:

    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    That his speech moved share prices indicates that the moneyed men think he`s going to be PM.
    No, it means that they think that there is a risk that he will be and that that would be a very bad thing. I think that is a pretty fair assessment myself.
    It also means that they think the event is a pretty high risk of occurring.

    What happens to share prices of RBS and Lloyds when Ed sneezes is far less important than the changes to the banking system which will benefit private businesses up and down the country.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:



    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    Please tell me you aren't buying into the nonsense that Ed Miliband's speech had a direct causal effect on the Lloyds share price ?

    I've got you down as a sensible man !
    It will have had an effect on Lloyds's share price. FTSE 100 index up 0.2% today whereas Lloyds Bank Group fell by 0.7% (Day high = £0.8449, day low = £0.8269, close = £0.8352)

    But the range of movement today falls broadly within the highs and lows of the last five days (high= £0.86 and low =£0.82). So the reaction to Ed's speech cannot be described as a market panic.

    Most investors in Lloyds's shares will regard Miliband's statement today as empty headed electioneering rather than a real threat to the value of their holdings.

    But there will now be calls for UK Financial Investments Ltd (the government controlled organisation which holds and sells shares in the intervened banks) to protect investor value in the event that a future government decides to split up the bank. An Osborne 'poison pill' is almost certainly being developed by the Treasury as we speak.

    Provided the Treasury handle the new risk effectively I see little long term damage being done to shares in the intervened banks as a result of Miliband's nonsense.
    Once again you are behind the curve Mr P. The nation cheers as the banking sector gets a dose of overdue competiton to break up Brown's cartel. Any moment soon Osborne will be rolling back his years of inaction and looking at what he can do to steal Ed's clothes. Well done Ed.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    @Topping: "That said, once elected, you will find his direction of travel and supporting policies won't change that much at all."

    I would like to think so but I doubt it. Ill-thought out policies or incompetently executed policies or naive ones can do harm, however well-meaning their intent. Labour do not need to be malevolent to do harm. Self-delusion about what they are doing is just as harmful, as we saw with Brown's "no more boom and bust".

    Milliband has identified that the economy has not worked well in some important ways. So far, so good. I'm with him so far. But his proposed remedies seem to me to risk making the problem worse rather than better.

    Plus God only knows what Labour are going to propose on taxes, on savings, on inflation, on pensions and the rest. Silly policies there could do real harm to people's "cost of living".

    I simply do not buy this idea that there is no real choice and that Labour will either choose or be forced to follow the same economic policies as the Coalition. I think this is a delusion, uttered by those who hope this will be the case.
  • BlueberryBlueberry Posts: 408
    I think UKIP should go with Cassidy too. Love the fact he was a manager in a McDonalds for two years. That's proper work experience - the equivalent of being a coal miner in this day and age. And headboy at the local school too. So, on paper he offers something for everyone.

    No idea how he would come across being recorded, but I don't think it really matters. The other candidates would not be able to put him down without slighting the electorate. Also, from reading his tweets I detect an emotional, modest and clearly youthful personality all of which would help UKIP shed the old git image.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    SMukesh said:

    DavidL said:

    SMukesh said:

    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    That his speech moved share prices indicates that the moneyed men think he`s going to be PM.
    No, it means that they think that there is a risk that he will be and that that would be a very bad thing. I think that is a pretty fair assessment myself.
    It also means that they think the event is a pretty high risk of occurring.

    What happens to share prices of RBS and Lloyds when Ed sneezes is far less important than the changes to the banking system which will benefit private businesses up and down the country.
    Who cares what happens to all those people saving for their pension who hold such shares, eh? They can get stuffed. Is that Labour's message?

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited January 2014
    Blueberry.. You equate having worked in McDonalds to being a coal miner..sheesh..I have only done one of those jobs but I cannot remotely see how they are comparable..maybe you should get out a little more
  • AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:



    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    Please tell me you aren't buying into the nonsense that Ed Miliband's speech had a direct causal effect on the Lloyds share price ?

    I've got you down as a sensible man !
    It will have had an effect on Lloyds's share price. FTSE 100 index up 0.2% today whereas Lloyds Bank Group fell by 0.7% (Day high = £0.8449, day low = £0.8269, close = £0.8352)

    But the range of movement today falls broadly within the highs and lows of the last five days (high= £0.86 and low =£0.82). So the reaction to Ed's speech cannot be described as a market panic.

    Most investors in Lloyds's shares will regard Miliband's statement today as empty headed electioneering rather than a real threat to the value of their holdings.

    But there will now be calls for UK Financial Investments Ltd (the government controlled organisation which holds and sells shares in the intervened banks) to protect investor value in the event that a future government decides to split up the bank. An Osborne 'poison pill' is almost certainly being developed by the Treasury as we speak.

    Provided the Treasury handle the new risk effectively I see little long term damage being done to shares in the intervened banks as a result of Miliband's nonsense.
    Once again you are behind the curve Mr P. The nation cheers as the banking sector gets a dose of overdue competiton to break up Brown's cartel. Any moment soon Osborne will be rolling back his years of inaction and looking at what he can do to steal Ed's clothes. Well done Ed.

    Where is this competition going to come from exactly?

    If I happen to like my bank will I be forced to leave them because Ed says they have too many customers? Please explain.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    UKIP's chances higher with Cassidy than with Nuttall I think.

    Also importantly he is less high profile if it goes wrong.

    They should go with Cassidy

    Going with Nuttall in what seems an unlikely seat for UKIP (if we use betting odds as a guide they have roughly a 85% chance of losing) seems a bit of a waste I suppose... especially if there is a reluctance for Mancunians to vote Scouse!

    I reckon UKIP will get 2nd place (Though I don't fancy the bet at 1/2) but it depends if it is a poor 2nd or if Labour are pushed to the line (I suspect the former)
    I'd rather lay UKIP at 1/2 to finish second in this seat than back them. It doesn't look very promising terrain for them at first blush.

    I'm not sure how I'd feel at evens.
    Laddies opened 10/11
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    Cyclefree said:

    SMukesh said:

    DavidL said:

    SMukesh said:

    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    That his speech moved share prices indicates that the moneyed men think he`s going to be PM.
    No, it means that they think that there is a risk that he will be and that that would be a very bad thing. I think that is a pretty fair assessment myself.
    It also means that they think the event is a pretty high risk of occurring.

    What happens to share prices of RBS and Lloyds when Ed sneezes is far less important than the changes to the banking system which will benefit private businesses up and down the country.
    Who cares what happens to all those people saving for their pension who hold such shares, eh? They can get stuffed. Is that Labour's message?

    Share prices go up and down.

    Is it the job of political leaders to make sure share prices are stable or put forward policies which they think will benefit the whole country.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Blueberry.. You equate having worked in McDonalds to being a coal miner..sheesh..I have only done one of those jobs but I cannot remotely see how they are comparable..maybe you should get out a little more

    Comparable in terms of the younger generation's sense of prospects, an earlier generation it was the pit, now it's McDonalds. Progress innit.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:



    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    Please tell me you aren't buying into the nonsense that Ed Miliband's speech had a direct causal effect on the Lloyds share price ?

    I've got you down as a sensible man !
    I

    Provided the Treasury handle the new risk effectively I see little long term damage being done to shares in the intervened banks as a result of Miliband's nonsense.
    Once again you are behind the curve Mr P. The nation cheers as the banking sector gets a dose of overdue competiton to break up Brown's cartel. Any moment soon Osborne will be rolling back his years of inaction and looking at what he can do to steal Ed's clothes. Well done Ed.

    Where is this competition going to come from exactly?

    If I happen to like my bank will I be forced to leave them because Ed says they have too many customers? Please explain.
    This has to be one of the funniest threads in ages watching righties queue up to defend the offspring of Fred Goodwin and Gordon Brown must have PB lefties in stitches. Hasn't it occurred to you that LBG is the PRODUCT of government intervention and the best thing would be to dismantle it ? And RBS while not a direct product had Brown and his acolytes cheerleading from the sidelines ? All of which established a crap oligopoly which does little for the real economy.

    As for a break up that's child's play or are you telling me all those overpaid consultants in London can't work out how to reorganise a bank ?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:



    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    Please tell me you aren't buying into the nonsense that Ed Miliband's speech had a direct causal effect on the Lloyds share price ?

    I've got you down as a sensible man !
    It will have had an effect on Lloyds's share price. FTSE 100 index up 0.2% today whereas Lloyds Bank Group fell by 0.7% (Day high = £0.8449, day low = £0.8269, close = £0.8352)

    But the range of movement today falls broadly within the highs and lows of the last five days (high= £0.86 and low =£0.82). So the reaction to Ed's speech cannot be described as a market panic.

    Most investors in Lloyds's shares will regard Miliband's statement today as empty headed electioneering rather than a real threat to the value of their holdings.

    But there will now be calls for UK Financial Investments Ltd (the government controlled organisation which holds and sells shares in the intervened banks) to protect investor value in the event that a future government decides to split up the bank. An Osborne 'poison pill' is almost certainly being developed by the Treasury as we speak.

    Provided the Treasury handle the new risk effectively I see little long term damage being done to shares in the intervened banks as a result of Miliband's nonsense.
    Once again you are behind the curve Mr P. The nation cheers as the banking sector gets a dose of overdue competiton to break up Brown's cartel. Any moment soon Osborne will be rolling back his years of inaction and looking at what he can do to steal Ed's clothes. Well done Ed.

    Where is this competition going to come from exactly?

    If I happen to like my bank will I be forced to leave them because Ed says they have too many customers? Please explain.

    My bank in town turned from a Lloyds TSB to a TSB, Ed works fast!!!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Blueberry said:

    I think UKIP should go with Cassidy too. Love the fact he was a manager in a McDonalds for two years. That's proper work experience - the equivalent of being a coal miner in this day and age. And headboy at the local school too. So, on paper he offers something for everyone.

    No idea how he would come across being recorded, but I don't think it really matters. The other candidates would not be able to put him down without slighting the electorate. Also, from reading his tweets I detect an emotional, modest and clearly youthful personality all of which would help UKIP shed the old git image.

    I don't think Cassidy can actually win the seat but he could certainly give Labour a real fright by cutting the majority to a few thousand.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    MJ .. Yep.. lugging heavy coal cutting machinery along a 3 foot high coal seam in the dark and dust is definitely the same as flipping burgers..
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    MJ .. Yep.. lugging heavy coal cutting machinery along a 3 foot high coal seam in the dark and dust is definitely the same as flipping burgers..

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/equivalent?s=t

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/same?s=t
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    MJ .. Yep.. lugging heavy coal cutting machinery along a 3 foot high coal seam in the dark and dust is definitely the same as flipping burgers..

    Flipping burgers is harder. That's why they need to provide a spiffy uniform to attract people.
  • AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:



    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    Please tell me you aren't buying into the nonsense that Ed Miliband's speech had a direct causal effect on the Lloyds share price ?

    I've got you down as a sensible man !
    I

    Provided the Treasury handle the new risk effectively I see little long term damage being done to shares in the intervened banks as a result of Miliband's nonsense.
    Once again you are behind the curve Mr P. The nation cheers as the banking sector gets a dose of overdue competiton to break up Brown's cartel. Any moment soon Osborne will be rolling back his years of inaction and looking at what he can do to steal Ed's clothes. Well done Ed.

    Where is this competition going to come from exactly?

    If I happen to like my bank will I be forced to leave them because Ed says they have too many customers? Please explain.
    This has to be one of the funniest threads in ages watching righties queue up to defend the offspring of Fred Goodwin and Gordon Brown must have PB lefties in stitches. Hasn't it occurred to you that LBG is the PRODUCT of government intervention and the best thing would be to dismantle it ? And RBS while not a direct product had Brown and his acolytes cheerleading from the sidelines ? All of which established a crap oligopoly which does little for the real economy.

    As for a break up that's child's play or are you telling me all those overpaid consultants in London can't work out how to reorganise a bank ?
    I'm not sticking up for bankers, just demonstrating the idiocy of a man who is a clear and present danger to the future of this country.

    Anyway, you haven't answered my question, if I am happy with my bank could I be forced to switch? Also, if you reorganise a bank and split it into 'new' banks, such as TSB or William & Glyns, do we not still have five major banks just with more subsidiaries?
  • BlueberryBlueberry Posts: 408
    Mr Dodd, re my whereabouts, I'm out and about all the time thank you very much. McDonalds is the quintessential first step on the job ladder - the embarrassing one with jokes written about it - not even as good as a paper round. It's also the one that most middle class people don't have to take.

    No MP worth their salt (it's behind you next to serviettes and straws) would dream of working there let alone putting on their CV if they did. It's also one of the jobs that British people are supposed not to want to do. It is therefore one of the most authentic jobs anyone wanting to represent the people can have. Especially when you compare it to what Dave, Nick and Ed have experienced in the way of employment.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Chappers tweeting the Mail may go 'big' on Rennard. More coming up on C4 news.

    Mitchell on AQ.

    I doubt many swingvoting types have much faith in Miliband to deliver, but I think there's a hunger out there for... not bank bashing particularly. Big guy bashing maybe.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    What did Ed Miliband have to say about the enforced merger of Lloyds? Did Ed Balls encourage Brown not to reduce competition. Trust Labour as far as they can be thrown, their championship of competition is akin to Osborne trying to fix wage rates.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Carola said:

    Chappers tweeting the Mail may go 'big' on Rennard. More coming up on C4 news.

    Why are the Lib Dems continuing to shoot themselves in the foot over this? I'm not saying the country is talking about it but the kind of people annoyed by it are likely the kind of people disposed to consider voting Lib Dem in the first place.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Neil said:

    Carola said:

    Chappers tweeting the Mail may go 'big' on Rennard. More coming up on C4 news.

    Why are the Lib Dems continuing to shoot themselves in the foot over this? I'm not saying the country is talking about it but the kind of people annoyed by it are likely the kind of people disposed to consider voting Lib Dem in the first place.
    Your suggested strategy?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:



    DavidL said:

    To cost the British taxpayer £1bn in a single day whilst only leader of the opposition by doing no more than giving a speech is a truly incredible achievement.

    But not in a good way.

    What is this man going to cost us if he ever becomes PM?

    Please tell me you aren't buying into the nonsense that Ed Miliband's speech had a direct causal effect on the Lloyds share price ?

    I've got you down as a sensible man !
    I

    Provided the Treasury handle the new risk effectively I see little long term damage being done to shares in the intervened banks as a result of Miliband's nonsense.
    Once again you are behind the curve Mr P. The nation cheers as the banking sector gets a

    Where is this competition going to come from exactly?

    If I happen to like my bank will I be forced to leave them because Ed says they have too many customers? Please explain.
    As for a break up that's child's play or are you telling me all those overpaid consultants in London can't work out how to reorganise a bank ?
    I'm not sticking up for bankers, just demonstrating the idiocy of a man who is a clear and present danger to the future of this country.

    Anyway, you haven't answered my question, if I am happy with my bank could I be forced to switch? Also, if you reorganise a bank and split it into 'new' banks, such as TSB or William & Glyns, do we not still have five major banks just with more subsidiaries?
    You should be forced to shift ( if that's what happens ) because overall more competition will benefit the economy which in the long term is in your own interest as it will pay off our debts and cut your taxes quicker. As things stand today what guarantees have any of us that our bank won't be taken over so you switch by default or if you;re in the sticks your branch closes and tells you to use a call centre in India. I suspect like me you have had several accounts and have seen a takeover change your bank whether you like it or not.

    As for the how it's done we all have our own opinions. Personally I would prefer more regional banks preferably in a mutual form and takeover proof. This isn't wildly different from what we had with the building socs except I'd like to see them offer commercial finance too.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    @Neil

    Avery, I'm not sure the kids getting gay bashed on the streets of Russian cities are in on the joke.

    Russia can be a very unpleasant place to live, Neil. And Russian culture harbours attitudes and activities which would be totally unacceptable in 'western' countries.

    I don't deny that one bit.

    The challenge is to change that culture. For all Putin's public projection of himself a "muzhik" he will be aware of the need for the Russian Presidency and Government to take on this challenge.

    His statement on Sochi can be interpreted as a step in the right direction. For those totally opposed to such moves, it can also be interpreted as joke at the expense of the reformers.

    If you visit Moscow en route to the Sochi games, within a week some Russian will have quoted to you Ilf and Petrov's famous catchphrase: "This is Moscow, not San Francisco" [Это Москва, не Сан-Франциско].

    For more on Ilf and Petrov see: http://bit.ly/1awjdfV

    My favourite of their much quoted satirical lines is "How much does opium for the people cost?" ["Почем опиум для народа?"].
This discussion has been closed.