Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
This is insanity.
It’s of very little difference to what we were doing through supporting partisans and resistance during WW2.
It’s quite easy to be liberal in your hospital when you aren’t waiting for a shell to burst in the ward you’ve just visited a load of children whose lives you were working to save.
A really good news story that your sad hatred wants to demean
The only person demeaned with comments like yours is yourself
I'm with Scott on this one, I'm judicially reviewing Patel if she lets this lot in without visas. Rules are rules.
Scott’s comment was out of order, Big G was right to flag that up. You are trying to reply with, can’t you see this has Malcolm Tuckers hands all over it, after the Tory refugee crisis this week this government move it comes across as a bit cynical?
But To be realistic about it, they are sick, their families with more than war to worry them, someone in government must clearly have been trying to help them for days - a special type of wave through for them I think matches the warm spirit we really are as a nation. In terms of the medi care they need, our NHS is a great place for them to come. Do you see my point? It’s not just good for them, good news stories in this situation is good for all of us - we can actually save lives with this action not lose them.
BigG is being played like a cheap violin. Our deficit of refugees already taken in is in the 10 000s compared to anyone else, and I'm pretty sure that has caused 100 times the hardship alleviated by this very cynical attention grabbing stunt.
Nicola Sturgeon has called for a no-fly zone to be considered. She's also against nuclear weapons. Interesting combination.
I've never understood why people rate her.
Heartbroken that she lost your vote obvs.
Obviously I'd never vote for, nor can I, but I just don't get the adoration, she seems to be a quite run of the mill politician at best, and yet her supporters adore her. It's just a bit weird and cultish.
Not just her supporters, her approval ratings in England are higher than our own party leaders.
No one bats a thousand, but she is a good communicator, doesn't patronise or insult, and gives at least the impression of listening to people. In other words comes over as a caring human being.
Pardoning Scottish witches does seem a bit odd, but it really isn't something that bothers me either way.
Seemed a bit forgetful when asked about Alec salmons though... I think she is competent and that compares well with the U.K. pm. I think her caution on Covid probably matched more of the public than Johnson’s more open instincts, which I think more closely matches the pb demographic (not all, obviously). I also think we have a bit of the grass being greener going on. We don’t tend to see the scrutiny down south.
Works both ways, the last sentence. Amazing how many on PB are absolutely convinced that the Scottish media are pro-SNP.
I think we don’t get much on the news about Sturgeon or the snp that is negative. But then we don’t get much of anything. I can see how that pisses people off.
EU intelligence diverging from US quite significantly:
"From our estimate, the KIA figure on the Russian side was anywhere from 7,000 to 9,000 a few days ago." "It's not a popular war in the Russian military from what we've seen. People are terrorized, threatened with lawsuits if they decline to fight."
If the EU numbers are correct then we'd be expecting to see at least one Russian front on the brink of collapse, which I don't think we're seeing yet, unless the poor Russian supplies means that many more WIA were turning into KIA than normal.
Why would a front be on the brink of collapse?
The Russians were able to make initial advances with only a portion of their forces and only recently had they deployed the last remaining forces that had been assembled to Ukraine, so losses of one-sixth wouldn't put them on the verge of collapse.
Even with greater losses it depends on the losses suffered by Ukraine.
Nicola Sturgeon has called for a no-fly zone to be considered. She's also against nuclear weapons. Interesting combination.
I am please she has pardoned those witches though
I don’t know if our resident (and very knowledgable) Historians and History teachers know anything that can answer this, but surely the point is they weren’t witches? Was there really that many witches or were they wrongly accused?
What were they then? Was it a political or religious tool for attacking opponents? Did it target popular or intellectual people, feminists, or was it straightforward misogyny. Did the people behind this really believe they were fighting widespread Witchcraft?
Whatever, it was bloody disgusting. 😠
Oh, a lot of them [edit: the prosecutors, but probably some of the witches] were dead serious. And it happened in England etc too, though not to the same degree.
There's at least one good website about it. We were talking about it some weeks back as it happens (you probabluy missed it, but we all miss stuff on PB).
Nicola Sturgeon has called for a no-fly zone to be considered. She's also against nuclear weapons. Interesting combination.
I've never understood why people rate her.
Heartbroken that she lost your vote obvs.
Obviously I'd never vote for, nor can I, but I just don't get the adoration, she seems to be a quite run of the mill politician at best, and yet her supporters adore her. It's just a bit weird and cultish.
Not just her supporters, her approval ratings in England are higher than our own party leaders.
No one bats a thousand, but she is a good communicator, doesn't patronise or insult, and gives at least the impression of listening to people. In other words comes over as a caring human being.
Pardoning Scottish witches does seem a bit odd, but it really isn't something that bothers me either way.
Seemed a bit forgetful when asked about Alec salmond though... I think she is competent and that compares well with the U.K. pm. I think her caution on Covid probably matched more of the public than Johnson’s more open instincts, which I think more closely matches the pb demographic (not all, obviously). I also think we have a bit of the grass being greener going on. We don’t tend to see the scrutiny down south.
Certainly so, distance helps with popularity ratings. We see that with Johnson too.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Nicola Sturgeon has called for a no-fly zone to be considered. She's also against nuclear weapons. Interesting combination.
I've never understood why people rate her.
Heartbroken that she lost your vote obvs.
Obviously I'd never vote for, nor can I, but I just don't get the adoration, she seems to be a quite run of the mill politician at best, and yet her supporters adore her. It's just a bit weird and cultish.
Not just her supporters, her approval ratings in England are higher than our own party leaders.
No one bats a thousand, but she is a good communicator, doesn't patronise or insult, and gives at least the impression of listening to people. In other words comes over as a caring human being.
Pardoning Scottish witches does seem a bit odd, but it really isn't something that bothers me either way.
Seemed a bit forgetful when asked about Alec salmond though... I think she is competent and that compares well with the U.K. pm. I think her caution on Covid probably matched more of the public than Johnson’s more open instincts, which I think more closely matches the pb demographic (not all, obviously). I also think we have a bit of the grass being greener going on. We don’t tend to see the scrutiny down south.
Certainly so, distance helps with popularity ratings. We see that with Johnson too.
Yes, he seems liked in Ukraine at the moment. They’ll learn...
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
The West cannot even decide whether to allow Ukraine a few aging MIGs to help stop the bombing of children's hospitals, it seems.
A true "it's a wonder that you still know how to breathe" moment. It's not the age or number or cost of the planes, you cretin, it's whether Putin regards them as for reason to nuke Kiev.
And if he did that I'm sure you would be squealing your brains out about Who could have predicted such a thing?
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
EU intelligence diverging from US quite significantly:
"From our estimate, the KIA figure on the Russian side was anywhere from 7,000 to 9,000 a few days ago." "It's not a popular war in the Russian military from what we've seen. People are terrorized, threatened with lawsuits if they decline to fight."
If the EU numbers are correct then we'd be expecting to see at least one Russian front on the brink of collapse, which I don't think we're seeing yet, unless the poor Russian supplies means that many more WIA were turning into KIA than normal.
Why would a front be on the brink of collapse?
The Russians were able to make initial advances with only a portion of their forces and only recently had they deployed the last remaining forces that had been assembled to Ukraine, so losses of one-sixth wouldn't put them on the verge of collapse.
Even with greater losses it depends on the losses suffered by Ukraine.
I think the answer is morale. I suspect that being "out of supply" is a very convenient excuse for units that don't want to fight.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
WWII was total war. Which meant bombing civilians. Bad. And that is several magnitudes milder than your proposal - the specific targeting and murder of children because of who their parents are.
Perhaps we should take all the Russians in the UK hostage? We could put a gun to the head of one of their kids and film an ultimatum to Putin - and then shoot them dead when he ignores us.? That what you propose?
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
I think you should step away from your keyboard, and from the TV for a while.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Oh and it goes without saying it would both be a crime in English courts for anyone involved here, and also a war crime.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
I’d say the aim was to save as many British lives as possible by winning the war as quickly as possible. We’ve discussed the allied bombing campaign against Germany before. My own feeling is that Harris didn’t target the killing of civilians, but he wanted to destroy factories, and the homes of those who worked in them. He also knew that targeted bombing at night, when being shot at and intercepted was essentially impossible, so area bombing was the only way ahead. The yanks tried day time for accuracy but suffered hugely until the latter stages when the Luftwaffe was finished.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
I could debate with you about Dresden for a while but instead can we focus on the poster above suggesting we murder children in their bed?
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
I could debate with you about Dresden for a while but instead can we focus on the poster above suggesting we murder children in their bed?
Sure
Just enumerate the valid military targets in down town Dresden, and we're good
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
I think you should step away from your keyboard, and from the TV for a while.
On the day that innocent children were slaughtered in a children's hospital by the evil Putin @boulay post is quite the worst I have read today and maybe any day and he needs to step away and contemplate just how killing children can ever be acceptable
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
Harris had run out of targets by then. The rest of Germany’s cities were ruined or overrun. But to be honest, if he could have, Harris would have inflicted a Dresden on every city he attacked. He fully believed the war could be won through bombing alone, and tried really hard to prove it. In the end he failed, but he also never got his 4000 Lancaster strong bomber force which he believed he needed.
Are we arming any other anti-Putin movements in Chechnya etc?
I do hope so..
I hope not. Thats exactly what we did in Afghanistan in the 1980s and look how that ended.
Support peaceful demonstrators such as Navalny's lot. Russia looks very solid until suddenly it isn't.
You don't want the Russian army's attention to be drawn away from Ukraine?
Russian reinforcements to Ukraine are coming from places like this.
He is entirely correct. Arming insurgent groups comes back to bite you in the arse. We can trust the Ukrainian military, and to the extent there’s a risk of it falling into the wrong hands it’s worth it. Terror groups? Nah.
One of the most important studies in the pandemic – studying the potential impact of Covid on the brain – was just published. The major findings of loss of gray matter, reduced brain size, and cognitive decline are concerning and need to be placed in context.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
The West cannot even decide whether to allow Ukraine a few aging MIGs to help stop the bombing of children's hospitals, it seems.
A true "it's a wonder that you still know how to breathe" moment. It's not the age or number or cost of the planes, you cretin, it's whether Putin regards them as for reason to nuke Kiev.
And if he did that I'm sure you would be squealing your brains out about Who could have predicted such a thing?
How on earth can you know what Putin regards as a reason to nuke Kiev? has he released a sliding scale of f8cking provocations to which only you are privy?
We may have already past the point of his deliberations on nukes due to the resistance we have already put up. Who knows? Maybe we should lessen the resistance, just to mollify Putin? that's the logically corollary of your argument.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine. I’m not even convinced Putin stops there - he is clearly unhinged
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
I could debate with you about Dresden for a while but instead can we focus on the poster above suggesting we murder children in their bed?
Sure
Just enumerate the valid military targets in down town Dresden, and we're good
The factories and the homes of those who worked there.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
Harris had run out of targets by then. The rest of Germany’s cities were ruined or overrun. But to be honest, if he could have, Harris would have inflicted a Dresden on every city he attacked. He fully believed the war could be won through bombing alone, and tried really hard to prove it. In the end he failed, but he also never got his 4000 Lancaster strong bomber force which he believed he needed.
There's a lot in our own war effort that we can't be proud of. In general, we were on the side of righteousness. That doesn't mean that every specific of the UK or its allies actions is beyond reproach.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine. I’m not even convinced Putin stops there - he is clearly unhinged
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
I could debate with you about Dresden for a while but instead can we focus on the poster above suggesting we murder children in their bed?
Meanwhile whilst you debate Dresden how many Ukrainian children are being killed in their beds?
If it took killing 20 Russian oligarchs’ children to save 200 Ukrainian children is that the correct ratio?
Or 2000 Ukrainian children?
Seriously - someone who’s critical or telling me to stop posting please let me know how many Ukrainian children you are happy to have killed rather than explore the idea that bad times call for nasty solutions?
Nicola Sturgeon has called for a no-fly zone to be considered. She's also against nuclear weapons. Interesting combination.
I am please she has pardoned those witches though
I don’t know if our resident (and very knowledgable) Historians and History teachers know anything that can answer this, but surely the point is they weren’t witches? Was there really that many witches or were they wrongly accused?
What were they then? Was it a political or religious tool for attacking opponents? Did it target popular or intellectual people, feminists, or was it straightforward misogyny. Did the people behind this really believe they were fighting widespread Witchcraft?
Whatever, it was bloody disgusting. 😠
Oh, a lot of them [edit: the prosecutors, but probably some of the witches] were dead serious. And it happened in England etc too, though not to the same degree.
There's at least one good website about it. We were talking about it some weeks back as it happens (you probabluy missed it, but we all miss stuff on PB).
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
Harris had run out of targets by then. The rest of Germany’s cities were ruined or overrun. But to be honest, if he could have, Harris would have inflicted a Dresden on every city he attacked. He fully believed the war could be won through bombing alone, and tried really hard to prove it. In the end he failed, but he also never got his 4000 Lancaster strong bomber force which he believed he needed.
There's a lot in our own war effort that we can't be proud of. In general, we were on the side of righteousness. That doesn't mean that every specific of the UK or its allies actions is beyond reproach.
Absolutely true. Yet I still feel the lack of honours for the bomber crews and indeed Harris were very unfair. They did what they were asked to do. Should have been a campaign medal at the least.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine. I’m not even convinced Putin stops there - he is clearly unhinged
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
But we are not "standing and watching" we are arming the Ukraine as fast as we can get stuff there, and waging economic blockade on a scale unknown in modern times. Russia cannot sustain its war beyond the end of the month.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine.
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
Indeed. To prevent Putin destroying Ukraine , we allow him to destroy Ukraine.
The latter way allows him to destroy Ukraine a way that the people of the west don't notice so much.
What we have here, on the West's part, is 'managed' weakness. Weakness that can be sold to voters. Politically acceptable weakness.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
I could debate with you about Dresden for a while but instead can we focus on the poster above suggesting we murder children in their bed?
Sure
Just enumerate the valid military targets in down town Dresden, and we're good
The factories and the homes of those who worked there.
Nicola Sturgeon has called for a no-fly zone to be considered. She's also against nuclear weapons. Interesting combination.
I am please she has pardoned those witches though
I don’t know if our resident (and very knowledgable) Historians and History teachers know anything that can answer this, but surely the point is they weren’t witches? Was there really that many witches or were they wrongly accused?
What were they then? Was it a political or religious tool for attacking opponents? Did it target popular or intellectual people, feminists, or was it straightforward misogyny. Did the people behind this really believe they were fighting widespread Witchcraft?
Whatever, it was bloody disgusting. 😠
Oh, a lot of them [edit: the prosecutors, but probably some of the witches] were dead serious. And it happened in England etc too, though not to the same degree.
There's at least one good website about it. We were talking about it some weeks back as it happens (you probabluy missed it, but we all miss stuff on PB).
Are we arming any other anti-Putin movements in Chechnya etc?
I do hope so..
I hope not. Thats exactly what we did in Afghanistan in the 1980s and look how that ended.
Support peaceful demonstrators such as Navalny's lot. Russia looks very solid until suddenly it isn't.
You don't want the Russian army's attention to be drawn away from Ukraine?
Russian reinforcements to Ukraine are coming from places like this.
Remember the Beslan school massacre, or all the Chechens fighting with ISIS?
Do you really not expect blowback if you arm them?
I want to beat Putin.
Do you?
I want the destruction and killing to stop. If that means Putin survives, or even has a big victory parade, that's fine. Anything else is just asking for more people to have their lives cut short to feed your visceral hatred of an individual.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine. I’m not even convinced Putin stops there - he is clearly unhinged
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
I am afraid in the real world it is.
We provide supplies to Ukraine, nothing more
The real world is happening now. We’ve got indiscriminate bombing. Nuclear power plants without cooling - or adequate monitoring - that will directly effect Europe. Huge refugee flows.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
I could debate with you about Dresden for a while but instead can we focus on the poster above suggesting we murder children in their bed?
Sure
Just enumerate the valid military targets in down town Dresden, and we're good
The factories and the homes of those who worked there.
Civilians homes are legitimate targets ?
Considered so during total war in the 1940’s yes. The ‘idea’ was to shut the factories by destroying them and dehoming the workers. No factory outputs, no weapons, win the war. War is brutal.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine. I’m not even convinced Putin stops there - he is clearly unhinged
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
But we are not "standing and watching" we are arming the Ukraine as fast as we can get stuff there, and waging economic blockade on a scale unknown in modern times. Russia cannot sustain its war beyond the end of the month.
That sounds to me like we might be provoking Putin, in which case, should we stop? he might nuke Ukraine anyway.
Only Ishmael has the sliding scale of Putin's trigger points. The rest of us are in the dark.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine. I’m not even convinced Putin stops there - he is clearly unhinged
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
Really?! Can you give me the postcode? At those prices it would be worth the drive...
The Tesco on Savile Street in Sheffield was 150.9 on Monday.
Great, I'll just fire up the Delorean and go back a few days.
Not the best option - Deloreans do 25 mpg.
That's fine, I'll skip Monday's 150.9p per litre and go back to 1960 when it was 5p per litre (though I am not actually sure how I am going to pay for it).
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
I could debate with you about Dresden for a while but instead can we focus on the poster above suggesting we murder children in their bed?
Sure
Just enumerate the valid military targets in down town Dresden, and we're good
The factories and the homes of those who worked there.
Civilians homes are legitimate targets ?
Considered so during total war in the 1940’s yes. The ‘idea’ was to shut the factories by destroying them and dehoming the workers. No factory outputs, no weapons, win the war. War is brutal.
Are we arming any other anti-Putin movements in Chechnya etc?
I do hope so..
I hope not. Thats exactly what we did in Afghanistan in the 1980s and look how that ended.
Support peaceful demonstrators such as Navalny's lot. Russia looks very solid until suddenly it isn't.
You don't want the Russian army's attention to be drawn away from Ukraine?
Russian reinforcements to Ukraine are coming from places like this.
Remember the Beslan school massacre, or all the Chechens fighting with ISIS?
Do you really not expect blowback if you arm them?
I want to beat Putin.
Do you?
Of course, but we differ on means.
I don't believe you do.
I think you'd much prefer a "draw".
Well, you are wrong, and quite obviously so.
Quote any post back to me that I have made suggesting that would be desirable, or withdraw the accusation.
I think Russia is facing a catastrophic defeat, and Putin will be deposed by his own people. Provided we are not all evaporated in a nuclear apocalypse first.
It’s horrible to wake up and realise your living in 1939.
That’s it! I havn’t been waking up happy.
But did people in 1939 or 1914 realise they were in 1939 or 1914 😕
I always think this when boarding a plane, there's a voice over saying Don't these people realise they are boarding the doomed flight xy123?
I always wonder how many, before embarking on a doomed flight, have turned to their nervous companion and assured them that flying is the statistically the safest way to travel. Statistically it must have happened!
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine. I’m not even convinced Putin stops there - he is clearly unhinged
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
I am afraid in the real world it is.
We provide supplies to Ukraine, nothing more
Unfortunately you do not live in the real world
But you have criticised my post about “killing children”. And you are accusing HYUFD of not living in the real world - children are being killed every day by Russia in Ukraine. Whatever happens next more children are going to be killed - WW3 lots of children killed, arming Ukraine to keep fighting longer, more children killed, and insurgency for years, more children killed. Do you not think that it’s important to consider overcoming the squeamishness and the horror of the idea that if it stopped hundreds of kids being killed then something grim has to be done?
Nicola Sturgeon has called for a no-fly zone to be considered. She's also against nuclear weapons. Interesting combination.
I am please she has pardoned those witches though
I don’t know if our resident (and very knowledgable) Historians and History teachers know anything that can answer this, but surely the point is they weren’t witches? Was there really that many witches or were they wrongly accused?
What were they then? Was it a political or religious tool for attacking opponents? Did it target popular or intellectual people, feminists, or was it straightforward misogyny. Did the people behind this really believe they were fighting widespread Witchcraft?
Whatever, it was bloody disgusting. 😠
Oh, a lot of them [edit: the prosecutors, but probably some of the witches] were dead serious. And it happened in England etc too, though not to the same degree.
There's at least one good website about it. We were talking about it some weeks back as it happens (you probabluy missed it, but we all miss stuff on PB).
EU intelligence diverging from US quite significantly:
"From our estimate, the KIA figure on the Russian side was anywhere from 7,000 to 9,000 a few days ago." "It's not a popular war in the Russian military from what we've seen. People are terrorized, threatened with lawsuits if they decline to fight."
If the EU numbers are correct then we'd be expecting to see at least one Russian front on the brink of collapse, which I don't think we're seeing yet, unless the poor Russian supplies means that many more WIA were turning into KIA than normal.
Why would a front be on the brink of collapse?
The Russians were able to make initial advances with only a portion of their forces and only recently had they deployed the last remaining forces that had been assembled to Ukraine, so losses of one-sixth wouldn't put them on the verge of collapse.
Even with greater losses it depends on the losses suffered by Ukraine.
I think the answer is morale. I suspect that being "out of supply" is a very convenient excuse for units that don't want to fight.
There is a good chance that the central command of Russia's armed forces has no clue what is going on.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Really?! Can you give me the postcode? At those prices it would be worth the drive...
The Tesco on Savile Street in Sheffield was 150.9 on Monday.
Great, I'll just fire up the Delorean and go back a few days.
Not the best option - Deloreans do 25 mpg.
That's fine, I'll skip Monday's 150.9p per litre and go back to 1960 when it was 5p per litre (though I am not actually sure how I am going to pay for it).
if you are going back to 1960, what on earth is a litre, and ditto what's 5p? The price was 4/8d a gallon.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine. I’m not even convinced Putin stops there - he is clearly unhinged
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
I am afraid in the real world it is.
We provide supplies to Ukraine, nothing more
Unfortunately you do not live in the real world
But you have criticised my post about “killing children”. And you are accusing HYUFD of not living in the real world - children are being killed every day by Russia in Ukraine. Whatever happens next more children are going to be killed - WW3 lots of children killed, arming Ukraine to keep fighting longer, more children killed, and insurgency for years, more children killed. Do you not think that it’s important to consider overcoming the squeamishness and the horror of the idea that if it stopped hundreds of kids being killed then something grim has to be done?
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Yet we all stand and watch as Putin literally destroys Ukraine. I’m not even convinced Putin stops there - he is clearly unhinged
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
I am afraid in the real world it is.
We provide supplies to Ukraine, nothing more
Unfortunately you do not live in the real world
But you have criticised my post about “killing children”. And you are accusing HYUFD of not living in the real world - children are being killed every day by Russia in Ukraine. Whatever happens next more children are going to be killed - WW3 lots of children killed, arming Ukraine to keep fighting longer, more children killed, and insurgency for years, more children killed. Do you not think that it’s important to consider overcoming the squeamishness and the horror of the idea that if it stopped hundreds of kids being killed then something grim has to be done?
I don't know what the inverted commas above are for. You reccommended killing children, there's no "" about it. Your post was grotesque, as well as being grotesquely stupid - how do you think Putin would react to his children being executed?
In case you're wondering, that's a rhetorical question, I don't actually want to read any more of your blood-crazed soliloquy on this issue. Get a break from PB and the news.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
EU intelligence diverging from US quite significantly:
"From our estimate, the KIA figure on the Russian side was anywhere from 7,000 to 9,000 a few days ago." "It's not a popular war in the Russian military from what we've seen. People are terrorized, threatened with lawsuits if they decline to fight."
If the EU numbers are correct then we'd be expecting to see at least one Russian front on the brink of collapse, which I don't think we're seeing yet, unless the poor Russian supplies means that many more WIA were turning into KIA than normal.
Why would a front be on the brink of collapse?
The Russians were able to make initial advances with only a portion of their forces and only recently had they deployed the last remaining forces that had been assembled to Ukraine, so losses of one-sixth wouldn't put them on the verge of collapse.
Even with greater losses it depends on the losses suffered by Ukraine.
I think the answer is morale. I suspect that being "out of supply" is a very convenient excuse for units that don't want to fight.
There is a good chance that the central command of Russia's armed forces has no clue what is going on.
I think that fairly likely. Even in the best circumstances there is a fog of war, but add in poor signals, commanders afraid of reporting the truth and units finding it convenient to hunker down rather than engage and it is pretty nailed on.
Nicola Sturgeon has called for a no-fly zone to be considered. She's also against nuclear weapons. Interesting combination.
I am please she has pardoned those witches though
I don’t know if our resident (and very knowledgable) Historians and History teachers know anything that can answer this, but surely the point is they weren’t witches? Was there really that many witches or were they wrongly accused?
What were they then? Was it a political or religious tool for attacking opponents? Did it target popular or intellectual people, feminists, or was it straightforward misogyny. Did the people behind this really believe they were fighting widespread Witchcraft?
Whatever, it was bloody disgusting. 😠
Oh, a lot of them [edit: the prosecutors, but probably some of the witches] were dead serious. And it happened in England etc too, though not to the same degree.
There's at least one good website about it. We were talking about it some weeks back as it happens (you probabluy missed it, but we all miss stuff on PB).
PS As I said at the time, it's disconcertingf to realise how many were killed in what can be a very tiny and dozy little village today.
Thanks for links 👍🏻
So the PB consensus was it was largely for real on both sides? Not exploited for political, mysonginst or religious reasons?
There's a paper floating around suggesting that witch trials were a form of religious market competition.
Not much of a competition, the law and the church vs a bunch of illiterate old women
Graham Hancock thinks the women had been on the psilocybin and were communing with the machine elves.
See also ergotism. However a very religious society, that really did believe in the devil, and witchcraft, and a lot less tolerance of people being different led to a lot of poor, innocent people being killed.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Putin's useful idiot speaks.
by the very definition, expanding into the old USSR means going into quite a few NATO states.
You are not prepared to stand firm against Putin. It's a perfectly reasonable appeasement position as long as you are happy for Ukraine to become a Russian puppet state and risk Finland, Sweden, Moldova and Georgia to go the same way.
The choice is simple and stark. Act robustly against Putin or let him roam with grisly impunity and all that comes with it.
If Russia expands into the old USSR and Tsarist Empire so be it.
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Putin's useful idiot speaks.
Apart from Tugendhat, what MPs are for a shooting war with Russia? For that is what a NFZ means.
It seems to me that one of the situations most likely to trigger a tactical nuclear strike is the kind of nervous, frustrating stalemate we are putting into place with our current strategy.
It seems to me that one of the situations most likely to trigger a tactical nuclear strike is the kind of nervous, frustrating stalemate we are putting into place with our current strategy.
On the contrary, the conditions at the moment are perfect for both Ukraine and Russia to have the need to hammer out the terms of a ceasefire, which seems to be what's happening.
Do I want the bastard to stop bombing childrens hospitals? Yes.
I am prepared to face total war followed by total destruction to stop him? No.
As bad as I feel about what is happening in the Ukraine, I am not prepared to have the same - and so much worse - happen here to "stop him". I like my life and want my kids to grow up and enjoy their lives too.
Are we arming any other anti-Putin movements in Chechnya etc?
I do hope so..
I hope not. Thats exactly what we did in Afghanistan in the 1980s and look how that ended.
Support peaceful demonstrators such as Navalny's lot. Russia looks very solid until suddenly it isn't.
You don't want the Russian army's attention to be drawn away from Ukraine?
Russian reinforcements to Ukraine are coming from places like this.
Remember the Beslan school massacre, or all the Chechens fighting with ISIS?
Do you really not expect blowback if you arm them?
I want to beat Putin.
Do you?
Of course, but we differ on means.
I don't believe you do.
I think you'd much prefer a "draw".
Well, you are wrong, and quite obviously so.
Quote any post back to me that I have made suggesting that would be desirable, or withdraw the accusation.
I think Russia is facing a catastrophic defeat, and Putin will be deposed by his own people. Provided we are not all evaporated in a nuclear apocalypse first.
I apologise. I'm so angry about this that I'm trying to force people onto sides.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Patel could be appointed Camp Commandant.
Bit of a lack of camp in BJ's cabinet of gargoyles. Gove maybe?
'Now people, let's boogie our way to Appellplatz!'
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
Harris had run out of targets by then. The rest of Germany’s cities were ruined or overrun. But to be honest, if he could have, Harris would have inflicted a Dresden on every city he attacked. He fully believed the war could be won through bombing alone, and tried really hard to prove it. In the end he failed, but he also never got his 4000 Lancaster strong bomber force which he believed he needed.
Do I want the bastard to stop bombing childrens hospitals? Yes.
I am prepared to face total war followed by total destruction to stop him? No.
As bad as I feel about what is happening in the Ukraine, I am not prepared to have the same - and so much worse - happen here to "stop him". I like my life and want my kids to grow up and enjoy their lives too.
Yes, but they said the same in 1938 about Czechoslovakia.
It seems to me that one of the situations most likely to trigger a tactical nuclear strike is the kind of nervous, frustrating stalemate we are putting into place with our current strategy.
On the contrary, the conditions at the moment are perfect for both Ukraine and Russia to have the need to hammer out the terms of a ceasefire, which seems to be what's happening.
it was interesting that Rissua actually came out with a set of conditions to end the war. If they thought that were winning they'd not have done so. the conditions were not far off the 'initial aims' but are also limiting what VP will try to take.
Do I want the bastard to stop bombing childrens hospitals? Yes.
I am prepared to face total war followed by total destruction to stop him? No.
As bad as I feel about what is happening in the Ukraine, I am not prepared to have the same - and so much worse - happen here to "stop him". I like my life and want my kids to grow up and enjoy their lives too.
Yes, but they said the same in 1938 about Czechoslovakia.
And there was no relevant difference between the world of 1938 and now
It seems to me that one of the situations most likely to trigger a tactical nuclear strike is the kind of nervous, frustrating stalemate we are putting into place with our current strategy.
On the contrary, the conditions at the moment are perfect for both Ukraine and Russia to have the need to hammer out the terms of a ceasefire, which seems to be what's happening.
it was interesting that Rissua actually came out with a set of conditions to end the war. If they thought that were winning they'd not have done so. the conditions were not far off the 'initial aims' but are also limiting what VP will try to take.
Quite. And Zelensky has responded well. They need to get on with it.
Nicola Sturgeon has called for a no-fly zone to be considered. She's also against nuclear weapons. Interesting combination.
I am please she has pardoned those witches though
I don’t know if our resident (and very knowledgable) Historians and History teachers know anything that can answer this, but surely the point is they weren’t witches? Was there really that many witches or were they wrongly accused?
What were they then? Was it a political or religious tool for attacking opponents? Did it target popular or intellectual people, feminists, or was it straightforward misogyny. Did the people behind this really believe they were fighting widespread Witchcraft?
Whatever, it was bloody disgusting. 😠
AFAIK it was part of the anti Catholic measures by the puritans.
It seems to me that one of the situations most likely to trigger a tactical nuclear strike is the kind of nervous, frustrating stalemate we are putting into place with our current strategy.
On the contrary, the conditions at the moment are perfect for both Ukraine and Russia to have the need to hammer out the terms of a ceasefire, which seems to be what's happening.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
Harris had run out of targets by then. The rest of Germany’s cities were ruined or overrun. But to be honest, if he could have, Harris would have inflicted a Dresden on every city he attacked. He fully believed the war could be won through bombing alone, and tried really hard to prove it. In the end he failed, but he also never got his 4000 Lancaster strong bomber force which he believed he needed.
7,377 Lancasters were built in total
Yes but the attrition was such that there were never anything like that available. The early thousand bomber raids were done by scraping every available aircraft into the air, including some pretty poor ones. Later the lancs and halifaxes dominated, but Harris’s vision was 4000 heavies just waiting to be pointed where he wanted that night. It was probably an impossible dream. Max Hastings contends that the vast industrial resource allocated to the bombing war could have been better used elsewhere. He’s probably right, although the bombing campaign for much of the war was political as much as military. It provided a second front to appease Stalin when the U.K. and U.S. were in no state to take on hitlers land forces in France. In that context it did it’s job, and it’s certain that by the end Harris had a superb weapon, albeit one that had no more function, as he had run out of cities to wreck.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
I could debate with you about Dresden for a while but instead can we focus on the poster above suggesting we murder children in their bed?
Meanwhile whilst you debate Dresden how many Ukrainian children are being killed in their beds?
If it took killing 20 Russian oligarchs’ children to save 200 Ukrainian children is that the correct ratio?
Or 2000 Ukrainian children?
Seriously - someone who’s critical or telling me to stop posting please let me know how many Ukrainian children you are happy to have killed rather than explore the idea that bad times call for nasty solutions?
It is never right to kill kids.
If it became the policy of any British Government to do so I would do everything I could to overthrow that Government by any means necessary.
Day by day, hour by hour the Kremlin crime boss is destroying a peaceful European democracy and for all the sanctions, legal action, weapons delivered and heroic Ukrainian defence, the West is still not prepared to will the means to put Putin firmly in his box. Putin is being given a pass because some worry about taking on the Russian rogue state.
We are now seeing the price of weakness and the bully will not be deterred by such weakness, only come back for more as his appetite for expansion grows more glutinous.
The immediate answer is simple, a red line to many, not without risk or the potential for NATO large losses :
1. No fly zone 2. Russian invasion force to begin withdrawing within 12 hours 3. Ukraine to be admitted to NATO with immediate effect.
Boris and other western leaders have said Putin must lose and be seen to lose. They need to take the decisive action that will ensure he does lose. Nothing else will do or work.
Or go Mossad +. Stop playing nice. Putin’s kids in Switzerland - kill them. Oligarch’s children arriving by private jet in Mykonos - dead in their hotel beds. Make every Russian of any vague standing terrified for their children because they are enabling Putin to allow his forces to kill Ukrainian children.
Open a second front for Russia by dropping every Islamo-terrorist in captivity into Chechnya with weapons.
Take the fight into Russian streets with terrorism - they have been telling their people that the west has been doing nasty things - may as well just do them.
Hooray for collective punishment! Let's round them up and put them in camps.
Nice try with the Nazi equivalency - doing Vlad’s work there…..
Clearly I meant targeted on the kids of those enabling Ukrainian kids to be killed - I’m sure they don’t have a prob with kids being killed yes?
And opening a second front whilst Russian army stretched - quite obvious.
But yes I am a Nazi and want every Russian in a camp…..
If you're talking about killing the children of the relevant people -- even if the relevant people are war criminals -- then you are the bad guy. I'm open to the concept of extrajudicial killing in EXTREME circumstances and where there no reasonable hope of justice being served (that's just war), but targeting non-combatants who happen to be related to commanders is really, really fucking dark.
It is dark and I hate even thinking it but if it’s the choice between that and watching, from our lovely safe armchairs, kids’ hospitals being bombed and civilians being targeted for nothing then it’s the lesser evil.
I’m sorry if you disagree and I totally get why you or anyone does but unfortunately some people will only realise what they’ve done wrong when it truly comes home to them.
If we wilfully killed children, how would we be any different to him?
Did we bomb German cities during WW2 killing civilians including children? Are we as bad as Hitler or did we choose to do something horrific in order to save more lives in the long run?
Collateral damage around a valid military target (especially with the technology of WW2) is not remotely the same as deliberately seeking out and murdering a child in their bed. Come on, you don’t need me to tell you that.
Dresden
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
I could debate with you about Dresden for a while but instead can we focus on the poster above suggesting we murder children in their bed?
Sure
Just enumerate the valid military targets in down town Dresden, and we're good
The factories and the homes of those who worked there.
Civilians homes are legitimate targets ?
Considered so during total war in the 1940’s yes. The ‘idea’ was to shut the factories by destroying them and dehoming the workers. No factory outputs, no weapons, win the war. War is brutal.
Yes. They were legitimate targets then. They are not now, because we have precision bombs. We also wouldn’t attack factories themselves because we can be accurate on military targets.
Comments
It’s quite easy to be liberal in your hospital when you aren’t waiting for a shell to burst in the ward you’ve just visited a load of children whose lives you were working to save.
I do hope so..
The Russians were able to make initial advances with only a portion of their forces and only recently had they deployed the last remaining forces that had been assembled to Ukraine, so losses of one-sixth wouldn't put them on the verge of collapse.
Even with greater losses it depends on the losses suffered by Ukraine.
There's at least one good website about it. We were talking about it some weeks back as it happens (you probabluy missed it, but we all miss stuff on PB).
http://www.shca.ed.ac.uk/Research/witches//
https://witches.is.ed.ac.uk/
PS As I said at the time, it's disconcertingf to realise how many were killed in what can be a very tiny and dozy little village today.
And if he did that I'm sure you would be squealing your brains out about Who could have predicted such a thing?
Support peaceful demonstrators such as Navalny's lot. Russia looks very solid until suddenly it isn't.
Perhaps we should take all the Russians in the UK hostage? We could put a gun to the head of one of their kids and film an ultimatum to Putin - and then shoot them dead when he ignores us.? That what you propose?
Perhaps best to post less.
DresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresdenDresden
This is the petrol station where you will need finance.
But did people in 1939 or 1914 realise they were in 1939 or 1914 😕
Russian reinforcements to Ukraine are coming from places like this.
Just enumerate the valid military targets in down town Dresden, and we're good
I am not prepared to start WW3 with a country armed with nuclear weapons unless it invades a NATO state
Really upsetting post
But to be honest, if he could have, Harris would have inflicted a Dresden on every city he attacked. He fully believed the war could be won through bombing alone, and tried really hard to prove it. In the end he failed, but he also never got his 4000 Lancaster strong bomber force which he believed he needed.
One of the most important studies in the pandemic – studying the potential impact of Covid on the brain – was just published. The major findings of loss of gray matter, reduced brain size, and cognitive decline are concerning and need to be placed in context.
We may have already past the point of his deliberations on nukes due to the resistance we have already put up. Who knows? Maybe we should lessen the resistance, just to mollify Putin? that's the logically corollary of your argument.
Do you really not expect blowback if you arm them?
I’m sorry. The world isn’t as black and white as you make out.
did the people in 1939 know what was around the corner? yes, european politics had been building to WWII since the wall street crash.
Do you?
We provide supplies to Ukraine, nothing more
If it took killing 20 Russian oligarchs’ children to save 200 Ukrainian children is that the correct ratio?
Or 2000 Ukrainian children?
Seriously - someone who’s critical or telling me to stop posting please let me know how many Ukrainian children you are happy to have killed rather than explore the idea that bad times call for nasty solutions?
So the PB consensus was it was largely for real on both sides? Not exploited for political, mysonginst or religious reasons?
The latter way allows him to destroy Ukraine a way that the people of the west don't notice so much.
What we have here, on the West's part, is 'managed' weakness. Weakness that can be sold to voters. Politically acceptable weakness.
This isn’t going to get better.
I think you'd much prefer a "draw".
War is brutal.
Only Ishmael has the sliding scale of Putin's trigger points. The rest of us are in the dark.
Quote any post back to me that I have made suggesting that would be desirable, or withdraw the accusation.
I think Russia is facing a catastrophic defeat, and Putin will be deposed by his own people. Provided we are not all evaporated in a nuclear apocalypse first.
Apparently the kids were compelled to do it by their school, hence the limited enthusiasm.
Graham Hancock thinks the women had been on the psilocybin and were communing with the machine elves.
In case you're wondering, that's a rhetorical question, I don't actually want to read any more of your blood-crazed soliloquy on this issue. Get a break from PB and the news.
Sneak preview of travelling on an Elizabeth Line train with Geoff Marshall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OggrRqn0jSU
I have to ask "at what cost"?
Do I want the bastard to stop bombing childrens hospitals? Yes.
I am prepared to face total war followed by total destruction to stop him? No.
As bad as I feel about what is happening in the Ukraine, I am not prepared to have the same - and so much worse - happen here to "stop him". I like my life and want my kids to grow up and enjoy their lives too.
My side is that we have to stop Putin. Dead.
'Now people, let's boogie our way to Appellplatz!'
Russia-Ukraine is the world's Kobayashi Maru.
Real v PSG
You can fool some of the people all of the time…
3-2 on aggregate now.
Max Hastings contends that the vast industrial resource allocated to the bombing war could have been better used elsewhere. He’s probably right, although the bombing campaign for much of the war was political as much as military. It provided a second front to appease Stalin when the U.K. and U.S. were in no state to take on hitlers land forces in France. In that context it did it’s job, and it’s certain that by the end Harris had a superb weapon, albeit one that had no more function, as he had run out of cities to wreck.
If it became the policy of any British Government to do so I would do everything I could to overthrow that Government by any means necessary.