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The Russian proposals – at least something is on the table – politicalbetting.com

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    LeonLeon Posts: 49,096
    Foxy said:

    I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.

    Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.

    Perhaps we could have that bit.

    I think that was one of the tidbits mentioned in The Last King English King by Julian Rathbone. A truly wondrous book.
    https://deremilitari.org/2014/06/english-refugees-in-the-byzantine-armed-forces-the-varangian-guard-and-anglo-saxon-ethnic-consciousness/

    "According to the recently discovered Chronicon universale anonymi Laudunensis, a group of English notables immigrated to Byzantium in 235 ships, reaching Constantinople in 1075. Some 4350 of the emigrants and their families remained in Constantinople in imperial service, while a majority of the refugees sailed to a place called Domapia, six days’ journey from Byzantium, conquered it and renamed it Nova Anglia (New England)."

    Also, this bit may be of use to Ukranians needing to cite family links when applying for UK visas:
    "For example, ties between the Kievan Rus’ and England were not unknown. The exiled Gyda, daughter of Harold II Godwinson, married Kievan Prince Vladimir Monomakh..."
    Its quite striking how people moved around a lot, and often vast distances in olden times, intermarrying and living new lives. The good old days?
    Check out the amazing World of Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum. It’s so good I’m going back again this week. I’ve NEVER revisited a temporary exhibition before

    They have this thing called the NEBRA SKY DISC. The oldest known map of the cosmos. 4000 years old. A flat metallic orrery. Unearthed a few years ago in Germany. Yet the gold embedded in it… comes from Cornwall

    Or see the buried archer from near Stonehenge. The Amesbury grave. Also about 4000 years old. Yet this guy was born in the Alps?!

    It’s a mind blowing, spine tingling exhibition. Go!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,994

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    A repeat message, to the people of Europe:

    If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you.
    If you are in NATO we probably won't.
    Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.

    8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
    I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
    I doubt it, and I most certainly hope not. An independent army is an essential feature of a free country.
    So Scotland isn't a free country?
    Most certainly is NOT. We are ruled by bour much bigger neighbour who will not let us be independent or join the EU. Strange parallels with just the bombs missing.
    Your absurdity is barely exceeded these days by your language. The only people stopping Scottish independence are Scottish voters.
    How does that work? Scottish voters just turned out in record numbers to vote in a national election to elect a record number of pro-independence MSPs. And are being told no by the Essicks Massiv, that however we vote we can't have it.
    A 'once in a generation vote'.
    That is a bare faced lie, show me where in the Edinburgh agreement that was written, and do not give me the bollox fact that Salmond said on a broadcast that it was a once in ageneration chance.
    BARE FACED LIE.
    Lets assume for a minute that instead of it being a throw-away comment about how long it had taken to get to a referendum, and instead had actually been written into the legislation. A legally-binding clause that 2014 would be "once in a generation".

    Would that stop this government or any government passing a new law which removes this clause from the previous law?

    As the answer to that hypothetical is "no" I have to ask what point Felix and HY etc are trying to make? It wasn't once in a generation legally and if it had been that means nothing. Its like a mantra, chanted by scared little girls about there not really being monsters in the cupboard.
    How often would you like a referendum?
    As often as the public vote for it.

    Its called democracy.
    Of course. But I think max one per parliament (and thus mandate).

    You do have to recognise that it's a one way street. It would never be a best of three if Yes won, or a 2nd confirmatory referendum.

    Perhaps one per week and we take an average over a 5 year period? :P
    Even one per parliament is too much. These things take time to organise, then time for campaigning, then time for mopping up the impacts on business, government, society etc.

    For all that "you've just had one" gets thrown about it will have been at least 10 years as the absolute minimum. So we're already into long gaps.

    There is a real juxtaposition here to consider. We say "we support self-determination for free peoples" when it comes to Ukraine. But not Scotland. The world is changing very rapidly because of this war, and sadly for HY et al the "NO NO NO" position on internal self-determination is no longer sustainable.

    Either make a positive case for the Union or there is no positive case. Locking Scotland in the cellar is not making a positive case for staying in the house.
    If anything Russia's invasion of Ukraine if followed by Chinese invasion if Taiwan means independence of smaller nations is less viable not more if larger neighbours want to keep them in union
    Why do you keep repeating this, as though it has any bearing on relations between England and Scotland?

    You'd just love England to be the cartoonish bully of the imagination of Scottish Nationalists.
    As if you add in Spain's denial of the Catalan government even one independence referendum, Westminster's denial of indyref2 leaves them anything but isolated internationally
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