It gets worse: "❗️ It is known from the report that the head of the missile forces and artillery of the 41st All-Military Army of the Central Command, Colonel Serhiy Trofimov, was also wounded.
In fact, the staff work of the 41st Army was beheaded and disorganized. This is about 8-10 thousand troops" Seems like a very significant special forces operation. The fact that Generals are going down to the convoys or artillery units indicates that they either don't trust, or are running out of middle management.
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500970445889327118 "This is not the worst part. In the phone call in which the FSB officer assigned to the 41st Army reports the death to his boss in Tula, he says they've lost all secure communications. Thus the phone call using a local sim card. Thus the intercept.". If Kharkiv's defenders are still fairly cohesive I'd expect to see a major push asap.
If Russia was agreeing to rebuild Kharkiv (and a thousand other towns) then maybe. They are not. Everyone will be skint after this
And, Ukrainians sense they are winning. It maybe somewhat delusional, born of social media, but there is a definite sense they are not only stalling the Evil Russians, they are pushing them back. Heroically
Do you sue for peace in that situation? I can't see it. Yes it is arguably logical - if you want to save your remaining towns - but Putin has pushed Ukraine far beyond cold logic. For them, this is surely existential, now. Russians are Nazis, who must lose. Both sides therefore need a "win" and that is a bad place for us all
As it stands at moment the longer this goes on the more that Putin is revealing that is superpower war machine is in fact a losing mess of drunks, incompetent conscripts crying for mum, useless officers and corrupt quartermasters. They can't even turn up to Kwick Fit once a year for a proper tyre change.
The maps he has on his massive desk are all lies. All the generals have been lying to him for years.
Yes, I agree, Russia is clearly losing, and all the hi-tech missiles that quietly became yachts are partly to blame
No way Russia does anything but lose, from here. Question is, does it lose alone, and if so, how badly? Or will the mad-hound Putin successfully launch a few nukes to save his "legacy"?
Russia is still gaining ground. While a Russian victory is no longer inevitable, it is still very possible that Russia throws enough men and machines in to gum up the machinery. I'd like to see some armed Ukrainian resistance in Russian occupied cities before throwing a 'Russia can't win' party.
I think Russia can certainly hold Eastern Ukraine, up to and probably including Kiev, as well as the cities and area nearest to the Crimea.
But Lviv is a long way West. Google pegs it as 550km West of Kyiv, and close to the Polish border.
Occupying the whole country is a hell of a lot harder than just the Eastern half.
I suspect Russia would find it very difficult to hold large parts of Eastern Ukraine effectively and for any length of time. Problem is that doesn't help Ukraine. Ukraine needs Russia to get out
It's taken an enormous effort to try and control Mariupol. Taking over Kiev seems near impossible given its size and the huge network of underground tunnels. How many troops could they realistically put into the capital? 100,000? Their best bet is that the humanitarian situation/mass damage to the country sees the Ukrainians give up.
My take on war is that both sides collapse. It's just a question of which side collapses first.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
It's not about fanboys. I cannot stand the man. I get triggered by it because it is so petty (eg referring to it as a stage name, when plenty of politicians went by second names, even if not solely, eg James Brown, Leonard Callaghan), it's insulting the intelligence of the public as if there is some inherent positive effect for him to do so, and it is deeply, deeply insecure to get so het up about some people (not all, mind you) calling him Boris.
People complaining about it act like they are revealing a grand truth which the sheeple do not see, when most people rightly don't care what others call the man, they judge him as crap or not regardless. Focusing on his name as some kind of spell he casts imbues him with power he does not possess.
Well, this is an interesting development. It's obviously a maximalist position. I agree with Mike, Russia might compromise on EU but not NATO. And why would Ukraine agree, when no NATO means it could happen again? Russia also might compromise on full independence for the breakaway republics possibly?
As Mexicanpete says, it's not up to us, and we need to be careful not to tell them what to do from the comfort of our living rooms. As a negotiating position, it looks unachievable, but not out of sight.
Isn't that what you are also doing just as the rest of us, by commmenting on the viability or acceptability of negotiating positions?
I don't understand your distinction of giving up NATO membership in exchange for military guarantees from NATO including a no fly zone - that would provide Ukraine with the security of NATO backing in the event of further invasion, which is precisely what Russia does not want
That doesn't make any sense to me. It's not about NATO troops or bases not being stationed in Ukraine, since they can already be station near Russia in existing NATO countries, it seems to therefore be about Ukraine, specifically, not being allowed to have NATO defence. Giving them that defence without membership therefore doesn't seem acceptable to Russia even as a face saving option
Great news President Putin, Ukaine will not join NATO That's great, we have successfully ensured military neutrality then? Well...NATO have promised that they would come th Ukraine's aid if we ever attacked again Sure sure, but like now, right? Well, no, they'd also impose a no fly zone ...You're fired.
Yes, we're just discussing it, and none of us have the ability or right to tell either side what to do.
But FWIW my reading of the Russian outlook is that they do see NATO as potentially threatening, just as we saw the Wasraw Pact. It wasn't that we thought the WP would roll in on a whim, but the possibility that they might was a factor that we always had to keep in mind. Russia has been invaded and came to the brink of disaster in living memory - these things weigh more heavily on their mind than they do for us sitting in NW Europe.
A defensive guarantee for Ukraine will look less threatening that having another big neighbour keen to join NATO, I think. I hope so, because otherwise the bargaining positions look irreconcilable, and we're in for several months of this awful war.
What basis is there for any deal until Russia withdraws ? There is no reason to trust Putin, and every reason for any rational person utterly to distrust him. His is a totalitarian dictator who is responsible for mass murder.
The Russian position is that Ukraine must disarm before they leave. How on earth does that work ? Given that, all the other terms are an irrelevance.
This is not the worst part. In the phone call in which the FSB officer assigned to the 41st Army reports the death to his boss in Tula, he says they've lost all secure communications. Thus the phone call using a local sim card. Thus the intercept.
His boss, who makes a looong pause when he hears the news of Gerassimov's death (before swearing), is Dmitry Shevchenko, a senior FSB officer from Tula. We identified him by searching for his phone (published by Ukrainian military Intel) in open source lookup apps.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How was WW1 and WW2 for you, HYUFD? Do tell us about your sacrifices. ..
I never disparaged the sacrifices of previous generations in the way he effectively did.
Major General Vitaly Gerasimov, who took part in the second #Chechen war, the war in #Syria and the annexation of #Crimea, was killed in battles near Kharkiv.
Is Putin using the war in Ukraine to get rid of Generals who disagree with him, or are the Ukrainians getting good intelligence to feed into their 20,000 trained snipers?
They're using insecure comms (nothing encrypted), which means that communication is unreliable, and generals are going towards the front to try and work out what is going wrong, and getting killed. The other major general was in the convoy trying to sort out the mess. On both occasions the Ukrainian SOF surely got good intel from NATO about where to strike.
It gets worse: "❗️ It is known from the report that the head of the missile forces and artillery of the 41st All-Military Army of the Central Command, Colonel Serhiy Trofimov, was also wounded.
In fact, the staff work of the 41st Army was beheaded and disorganized. This is about 8-10 thousand troops" Seems like a very significant special forces operation. The fact that Generals are going down to the convoys or artillery units indicates that they either don't trust, or are running out of middle management.
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500970445889327118 "This is not the worst part. In the phone call in which the FSB officer assigned to the 41st Army reports the death to his boss in Tula, he says they've lost all secure communications. Thus the phone call using a local sim card. Thus the intercept.". If Kharkiv's defenders are still fairly cohesive I'd expect to see a major push asap.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
People complaining about this post ought to realise that people in their 20s have been locked up for 2 years for a disease that hardly affects them, charged through the nose for university tuition (in some cases for little more than 2 years of glorified youtube videos and zoom calls), have watched house prices rise far faster than they could ever save for a deposit, witnessed (mostly) old people vote away their rights to live and work in Europe (if that's your thing), all while being told they're lazy, feckless and overprivileged.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
What freedoms did WW1 give us? Presumably the freedom to have another war, hooray.
The freedom to be free from a Germany which had invaded Belgium followed by an invasion of France if you actually knew any history!
On the Russian General’s death: This is not the worst part. In the phone call in which the FSB officer assigned to the 41st Army reports the death to his boss in Tula, he says they've lost all secure communications. Thus the phone call using a local sim card. Thus the intercept. His boss, who makes a looong pause when he hears the news of Gerassimov's death (before swearing), is Dmitry Shevchenko, a senior FSB officer from Tula. We identified him by searching for his phone (published by Ukrainian military Intel) in open source lookup apps. https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500971769146060804
They could actually win this at this rate... From other reports basically the entirety of the senior command structure of the 41st army has been killed or wounded.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
But he IS known as "Boris"
It's not something you can change by diktat on PB. The whole world knows him as Boris. Boris Bikes. Boris!
If you said "Johnson" you would actually confuse people. Who? Who is this Johnson character? Oh, you mean BORIS Johnson. Ah!
He has a brand. It has been tarnished, and it is clear you despise it. But it is a thing. Get over it
And Boris sounds a bit, well, Russian so might not be the positive it once was.
Like the royal family in WW1 he'll have to rebrand.
Major General Vitaly Gerasimov, who took part in the second #Chechen war, the war in #Syria and the annexation of #Crimea, was killed in battles near Kharkiv.
Is Putin using the war in Ukraine to get rid of Generals who disagree with him, or are the Ukrainians getting good intelligence to feed into their 20,000 trained snipers?
There were some hints in the New York Times article about what the US is doing that the Ukrainian forces are getting everything bar direct orders from the US military about where, when, and how to fight this war. The Russians are learning the hard way that there is a technological gulf between Russia and the US, not just in terms of weapons, but in terms of intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
In 1940, Russians were losing the Winter War with Finland, very publicly.
Until they weren't, and Finns were forced to sue for peace.
Note that Finland had significant natural defenses versus Russia - vast forests, many lakes, tundra, narrow Karelian Isthmus, extremely limited transportation options - that Ukraine lacks. Plus Helsinki was NOT on the front line of battle.
So tad early in 2022 to say that Russians are whipped, this time around?
Russia is absolutely not whipped, it is sunk. Like the USA in Vietnam. The parallel is eerie, and you should appreciate it
America poured billions into winning that Vietnam war, against a 3rd world opponent, yet it could not win because the people on the ground bitterly resisted any occupation - and that means by anyone, France, America, or China. Vietnam is a proudly independent country, as any visitor can attest. They REALLY hate China, by the way. Much more than the USA, despite the horrors of the war
Ukraine is now, surely, similarly disposed to Russia. For Ukrainians, Russia has gone from giant friendly neighbour (at best, for some) to evil bullying abuser (to all), in a week. It is now the hated enemy, and that must be a truth for decades to come
Russia has no hope of occupying and repressing a vast nation of 44m people who despise it, so Russia will only lose. The question is whether Russia loses fast, or slow, or with an outburst of H bombs
Though Vietnam was originally fought by the USA to protect South Vietnam from Communist North Vietnam invasion (much like the Korean War).
In this case it is Russia doing the invading
That's not very accurate. The North Vietnamese army were only involved later on, and only dominated after 1968. Before that it was an indigenous insurrection in the South.
I've read that the North Vietnamese were quietly pleased that the Viet Cong were mostly destroyed in the Tet offensive as they were deemed ideologically impure from listening to too much western radio.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
It's not about fanboys. I cannot stand the man. I get triggered by it because it is so petty (eg referring to it as a stage name, when plenty of politicians went by second names, even if not solely, eg James Brown, Leonard Callaghan), it's insulting the intelligence of the public as if there is some inherent positive effect for him to do so, and it is deeply, deeply insecure to get so het up about some people (not all, mind you) calling him Boris.
People complaining about it act like they are revealing a grand truth which the sheeple do not see, when most people rightly don't care what others call the man, they judge him as crap or not regardless. Focusing on his name as some kind of spell he casts imbues him with power he does not possess.
Yes, quite so. It is arguably bad for "Boris" that he has a villainous stage-name that can be spat with venom.
Take the phrase "That c*nt Boris!"
I've heard that more than once, and it is powerful - much more powerful than "that c+nt Cameron" or "Blair" or whatever. The familiarity of the first name makes the cursing more emotional
So it is a double edged sword.
The reason this subject is so tiresome is that it is nearly always dull, lower-middle-brow, low-watt Remoaners that bring it up. Tedious fucks who bang on and on, the Steve Brays of social media bellowing on their megaphones. Tragic figures. Please get a life
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
On the Russian General’s death: This is not the worst part. In the phone call in which the FSB officer assigned to the 41st Army reports the death to his boss in Tula, he says they've lost all secure communications. Thus the phone call using a local sim card. Thus the intercept. His boss, who makes a looong pause when he hears the news of Gerassimov's death (before swearing), is Dmitry Shevchenko, a senior FSB officer from Tula. We identified him by searching for his phone (published by Ukrainian military Intel) in open source lookup apps. https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500971769146060804
They could actually win this at this rate... From other reports basically the entirety of the senior command structure of the 41st army has been killed or wounded.
Early days. But this could be the textbook military disaster invasion of the 21st century.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
And no more Albanian gangsters in Liverpool, thanks
But they're such good businessmen!
They’re sophisticated, clever – and they always deliver’: from the ports of Europe to the streets of London, one criminal network is now at the top of the UK’s £5bn trade...
They have shown that you don’t have to be greedy to dominate drug markets. They’ve gone down the route of sustainable prices, good quality.”
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How was WW1 and WW2 for you, HYUFD? Do tell us about your sacrifices. ..
If I had lived 800 yards further up the road, and as a baby in my mother's arms under a steel table in Greater Manchester, I would have died with my family as Hitler's bomb crashed through the house roof killing the 6 occupants
Boris is used by people who have bought into his schtick and are a little bit gullible. It's not something for the rest of us to get annoyed about.
Or those of who, in open conversation, tend to want the other person to immediately know who we mean. In the country he is “Boris”, that’s just a fact. Those who love him and those who hate him all call him that, so why does it bother anyone?
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
I’m sorry you feel that way. The world of 2022, with smartphones that allow us to see the horror in Ukraine, but also connect us to our friends and family, the Covid vaccines that helped stop the pandemic from killing perhaps 3-5% of the worlds population, and all the other stuff - well ‘boomers’ helped make that world.
Nah, the transistors in those smartphones were invented by the Greatest Generation, and the social media companies that facilitate all the connection were built by Gen Xers.
The dementia-ridden dotards waving the threat of nuclear apocalypse at each other are Boomers.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
But he IS known as "Boris"
It's not something you can change by diktat on PB. The whole world knows him as Boris. Boris Bikes. Boris!
If you said "Johnson" you would actually confuse people. Who? Who is this Johnson character? Oh, you mean BORIS Johnson. Ah!
He has a brand. It has been tarnished, and it is clear you despise it. But it is a thing. Get over it
And Boris sounds a bit, well, Russian so might not be the positive it once was.
Like the royal family in WW1 he'll have to rebrand.
If Russia was agreeing to rebuild Kharkiv (and a thousand other towns) then maybe. They are not. Everyone will be skint after this
And, Ukrainians sense they are winning. It maybe somewhat delusional, born of social media, but there is a definite sense they are not only stalling the Evil Russians, they are pushing them back. Heroically
Do you sue for peace in that situation? I can't see it. Yes it is arguably logical - if you want to save your remaining towns - but Putin has pushed Ukraine far beyond cold logic. For them, this is surely existential, now. Russians are Nazis, who must lose. Both sides therefore need a "win" and that is a bad place for us all
As it stands at moment the longer this goes on the more that Putin is revealing that is superpower war machine is in fact a losing mess of drunks, incompetent conscripts crying for mum, useless officers and corrupt quartermasters. They can't even turn up to Kwick Fit once a year for a proper tyre change.
The maps he has on his massive desk are all lies. All the generals have been lying to him for years.
Yes, I agree, Russia is clearly losing, and all the hi-tech missiles that quietly became yachts are partly to blame
No way Russia does anything but lose, from here. Question is, does it lose alone, and if so, how badly? Or will the mad-hound Putin successfully launch a few nukes to save his "legacy"?
Russia is still gaining ground. While a Russian victory is no longer inevitable, it is still very possible that Russia throws enough men and machines in to gum up the machinery. I'd like to see some armed Ukrainian resistance in Russian occupied cities before throwing a 'Russia can't win' party.
Problem is that Russia losing isn't a synonym for Ukraine winning. I do want Russia to lose, to ensure there's a high price for invading countries, but I care about Ukraine, not Russia.
There are no winners. Both sides have lost. But only one side is culpable.
I think that's right. While many denizens of PB and Twitter luxuriate in pontificating about who is 'winning', thousands of people are being killed on both sides; although Putin is to blame, that's no consolation for the dead or their families.
Let's be honest - nobody really has a clue who's 'winning' (although Ukraine are winning the propaganda war, at least outside Russia), but the odds favour Russia. For the people of Ukraine, a ceasefire would be helpful. That's not appeasement - it's trying to find a solution to save lives. More talking and less bombing should be the order of the day. Those who wish to just carry on warring from the comfort of their armchairs are just condemning thousands more people to death. In the end, some sort of diplomatic solution is inevitable; the sooner it comes, the quicker the pointless loss of lives can end.
A solution which rewards the invasion and sets Ukraine up for another one in ten years (after Russia has fixed its military problems) is no solution at all.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
What freedoms did WW1 give us? Presumably the freedom to have another war, hooray.
Freedom from a German dominated Europe… Well, for 20 years.
In 1940, Russians were losing the Winter War with Finland, very publicly.
Until they weren't, and Finns were forced to sue for peace.
Note that Finland had significant natural defenses versus Russia - vast forests, many lakes, tundra, narrow Karelian Isthmus, extremely limited transportation options - that Ukraine lacks. Plus Helsinki was NOT on the front line of battle.
So tad early in 2022 to say that Russians are whipped, this time around?
Russia is absolutely not whipped, it is sunk. Like the USA in Vietnam. The parallel is eerie, and you should appreciate it
America poured billions into winning that Vietnam war, against a 3rd world opponent, yet it could not win because the people on the ground bitterly resisted any occupation - and that means by anyone, France, America, or China. Vietnam is a proudly independent country, as any visitor can attest. They REALLY hate China, by the way. Much more than the USA, despite the horrors of the war
Ukraine is now, surely, similarly disposed to Russia. For Ukrainians, Russia has gone from giant friendly neighbour (at best, for some) to evil bullying abuser (to all), in a week. It is now the hated enemy, and that must be a truth for decades to come
Russia has no hope of occupying and repressing a vast nation of 44m people who despise it, so Russia will only lose. The question is whether Russia loses fast, or slow, or with an outburst of H bombs
Though Vietnam was originally fought by the USA to protect South Vietnam from Communist North Vietnam invasion (much like the Korean War).
In this case it is Russia doing the invading
That's not very accurate. The North Vietnamese army were only involved later on, and only dominated after 1968. Before that it was an indigenous insurrection in the South.
I've read that the North Vietnamese were quietly pleased that the Viet Cong were mostly destroyed in the Tet offensive as they were deemed ideologically impure from listening to too much western radio.
Have a friend who is married to a Vietnamese American who was a boat person, but before that she & her whole family were active in Viet Cong.
She decided to flee Vietnam for her former enemy, because of her hatred at oppression by North Vietnamese carpetbagger, as we would say this side of the Pacific (and Atlantic).
I think that's right. While many denizens of PB and Twitter luxuriate in pontificating about who is 'winning', thousands of people are being killed on both sides; although Putin is to blame, that's no consolation for the dead or their families.
Let's be honest - nobody really has a clue who's 'winning' (although Ukraine are winning the propaganda war, at least outside Russia), but the odds favour Russia. For the people of Ukraine, a ceasefire would be helpful. That's not appeasement - it's trying to find a solution to save lives. More talking and less bombing should be the order of the day. Those who wish to just carry on warring from the comfort of their armchairs are just condemning thousands more people to death. In the end, some sort of diplomatic solution is inevitable; the sooner it comes, the quicker the pointless loss of lives can end.
No Russia has lost this. They could totally destroy Ukraine and they will still lose. Consider just this one aspect, the war has prompted Germany to rearm. There is no way in hell that that result could be equated with a victory. Keeping Germnay docile must be damn near the top of Russian strategic objectives. Putin has brought about something previously consider unthinkable, by any normal measure that is a grave strategic failure. And that's on top of the economic catastrophe that is only beginning, and a war that has every propect of making the Soviet war in Afghanistan looking well planned and fought.
Putin's War is already a failure, the only question remaining is how big a failure it will be or will he escalate further to a global war.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together. The complications of trying to untie that link are pretty grim and definitely not worth it.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
But he IS known as "Boris"
It's not something you can change by diktat on PB. The whole world knows him as Boris. Boris Bikes. Boris!
If you said "Johnson" you would actually confuse people. Who? Who is this Johnson character? Oh, you mean BORIS Johnson. Ah!
He has a brand. It has been tarnished, and it is clear you despise it. But it is a thing. Get over it
And Boris sounds a bit, well, Russian so might not be the positive it once was.
Like the royal family in WW1 he'll have to rebrand.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
People complaining about this post ought to realise that people in their 20s have been locked up for 2 years for a disease that hardly affects them, charged through the nose for university tuition (in some cases for little more than 2 years of glorified youtube videos and zoom calls), have watched house prices rise far faster than they could ever save for a deposit, witnessed (mostly) old people vote away their rights to live and work in Europe (if that's your thing), all while being told they're lazy, feckless and overprivileged.
Little wonder they're angry at the old order.
No, those whinging are spoilt brats on the whole (and not all that generation to be fair are whiners, some actually get on with it without complaint).
There are tuition fees now as 20 year olds today are more likely to have been to university than any generation before them, have a longer life expectancy than any generation before them, have more freedom in their private lives than any generation before them and have never had to fight a war.
The fact they might have been less likely to die from Covid than older people is also something they should be grateful for not whinging about and they have no restrictions again now.
20 year olds will also inherit more than any generation from their parents and grandparents too through those same house price rises and many also get help with deposits from their parents and grandparents as well, especially in London and the Home Counties.
As for free movement, plenty of working class 20 year olds voted Leave precisely because there was free movement of unskilled labour undercutting their wages now resolved by the points system we have. Even if middle class 20 year old Remainers find gap yahs take a bit extra paperwork
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
I get it. We Boomers/Gen Xers were brought up with nuclear angst. Dr Strangelove to Threads, it was something always hanging over us, hence the joy of 1989 when the Iron curtain fell. For 30 years the most we worried about were a few nutters and hijackers with suicide bombs.
Now that evil shadow of war between powers, and possible nuclear apocalypse has returned because of ageing Boomers like Putin who want to re-live their youths. You are right to be angry.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
People complaining about this post ought to realise that people in their 20s have been locked up for 2 years for a disease that hardly affects them, charged through the nose for university tuition (in some cases for little more than 2 years of glorified youtube videos and zoom calls), have watched house prices rise far faster than they could ever save for a deposit, witnessed (mostly) old people vote away their rights to live and work in Europe (if that's your thing), all while being told they're lazy, feckless and overprivileged.
Little wonder they're angry at the old order.
So they haven’t even had to get their arses out of bed and go to lectures, and none of their peers bore them about their time as holiday reps? Luxury. Don’t know they’ve been born.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
We really do, tho. We have indulged the Irish for too long, out of a (justified) sense of guilt. We have more amortised the guilt. The Irish are free-loading on our defence spending even as they spit Anglophobic bile at us, for any reason possible
Due to their parasitic tax policies they are now some of the richest people on earth, at least theoretically. Enough special pleading from them. Let us treat them - fairly - like other EU citizens. Show your passport, no Free Movement, pay your fucking dues to NATO
And no more Albanian gangsters in Liverpool, thanks
Are you suggesting Ireland is not a real historic country, is a security threat, and therefore has no right to exist?
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
I’m sorry you feel that way. The world of 2022, with smartphones that allow us to see the horror in Ukraine, but also connect us to our friends and family, the Covid vaccines that helped stop the pandemic from killing perhaps 3-5% of the worlds population, and all the other stuff - well ‘boomers’ helped make that world.
Nah, the transistors in those smartphones were invented by the Greatest Generation, and the social media companies that facilitate all the connection were built by Gen Xers.
The dementia-ridden dotards waving the threat of nuclear apocalypse at each other are Boomers.
But it is the fucking Millennials who are stupid enough to obey, because they have tiny penises, no sperm, and are Woke as fuck, in various different ways. And their IQs are way way down, and have continued falling
"IQ rates are dropping in many developed countries and that doesn't bode well for humanity"
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
People complaining about this post ought to realise that people in their 20s have been locked up for 2 years for a disease that hardly affects them, charged through the nose for university tuition (in some cases for little more than 2 years of glorified youtube videos and zoom calls), have watched house prices rise far faster than they could ever save for a deposit, witnessed (mostly) old people vote away their rights to live and work in Europe (if that's your thing), all while being told they're lazy, feckless and overprivileged.
Little wonder they're angry at the old order.
No, those whinging are spoilt brats on the whole (and not all that generation to be fair are whiners, some actually get on with it without complaint).
There are tuition fees now as 20 year olds today are more likely to have been to university than any generation before them, have a longer life expectancy than any generation before them, have more freedom in their private lives than any generation before them and have never had to fight a war.
The fact they might have been less likely to die from Covid than older people is also something they should be grateful for not whinging about and they have no restrictions again now.
20 year olds will also inherit more than any generation from their parents and grandparents too through those same house price rises and many also get help with deposits from their parents and grandparents as well, especially in London and the Home Counties.
As for free movement, plenty of working class 20 year olds voted Leave precisely because there was free movement of unskilled labour undercutting their wages now resolved by the points system we have. Even if middle class 20 year old Remainers find gap yahs take a bit extra paperwork
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How many wars have you fought in?
My great great grandparents made sacrifices. My great grandparents made sacrifices. My grandparent's generation inherited the greatest economic miracle the world has ever known, destroyed the environment, burdened the country with debt, crippled the housing market, and are now sabre rattling over Ukraine with the most dangerous weapons in history and a reaction time of minutes.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
If Russia was agreeing to rebuild Kharkiv (and a thousand other towns) then maybe. They are not. Everyone will be skint after this
And, Ukrainians sense they are winning. It maybe somewhat delusional, born of social media, but there is a definite sense they are not only stalling the Evil Russians, they are pushing them back. Heroically
Do you sue for peace in that situation? I can't see it. Yes it is arguably logical - if you want to save your remaining towns - but Putin has pushed Ukraine far beyond cold logic. For them, this is surely existential, now. Russians are Nazis, who must lose. Both sides therefore need a "win" and that is a bad place for us all
As it stands at moment the longer this goes on the more that Putin is revealing that is superpower war machine is in fact a losing mess of drunks, incompetent conscripts crying for mum, useless officers and corrupt quartermasters. They can't even turn up to Kwick Fit once a year for a proper tyre change.
The maps he has on his massive desk are all lies. All the generals have been lying to him for years.
Yes, I agree, Russia is clearly losing, and all the hi-tech missiles that quietly became yachts are partly to blame
No way Russia does anything but lose, from here. Question is, does it lose alone, and if so, how badly? Or will the mad-hound Putin successfully launch a few nukes to save his "legacy"?
Russia is still gaining ground. While a Russian victory is no longer inevitable, it is still very possible that Russia throws enough men and machines in to gum up the machinery. I'd like to see some armed Ukrainian resistance in Russian occupied cities before throwing a 'Russia can't win' party.
Problem is that Russia losing isn't a synonym for Ukraine winning. I do want Russia to lose, to ensure there's a high price for invading countries, but I care about Ukraine, not Russia.
There are no winners. Both sides have lost. But only one side is culpable.
I think that's right. While many denizens of PB and Twitter luxuriate in pontificating about who is 'winning', thousands of people are being killed on both sides; although Putin is to blame, that's no consolation for the dead or their families.
Let's be honest - nobody really has a clue who's 'winning' (although Ukraine are winning the propaganda war, at least outside Russia), but the odds favour Russia. For the people of Ukraine, a ceasefire would be helpful. That's not appeasement - it's trying to find a solution to save lives. More talking and less bombing should be the order of the day. Those who wish to just carry on warring from the comfort of their armchairs are just condemning thousands more people to death. In the end, some sort of diplomatic solution is inevitable; the sooner it comes, the quicker the pointless loss of lives can end.
A solution which rewards the invasion and sets Ukraine up for another one in ten years (after Russia has fixed its military problems) is no solution at all.
That depends on the quality of the solution, doesn't it? You'll note that I didn't propose a solution in my post; that's beyond my pay grade. I merely proposed that a diplomatic solution is better than thousands, or tens of thousands, dying.
One thing to consider on the whole ‘will Putin use nukes’ and that is the attitude of China. From a Chinese standpoint, it wouldn’t be great if Putin dropped a bomb not because they are concerned over the Ukraine but because it would almost certainly to a greater push by Japan, South Korea and Taiwan to gain nuclear weapons. Ex-PM Abe in Japan is already pushing for his. So it might be China is acting as a brake here.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
Eh? As a descendent of Irish immigrants, your post is complete bullshit.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
What freedoms did WW1 give us? Presumably the freedom to have another war, hooray.
The freedom to be free from a Germany which had invaded Belgium followed by an invasion of France if you actually knew any history!
So we were defending Belgium, which wasn't even in NATO. I can't believe you walked into that one you absolute mug.
And the Kaiser unlike Putin did not have nuclear weapons and we were defending the Triple Entente and forthcoming German invasion of France
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How was WW1 and WW2 for you, HYUFD? Do tell us about your sacrifices. ..
If I had lived 800 yards further up the road, and as a baby in my mother's arms under a steel table in Greater Manchester, I would have died with my family as Hitler's bomb crashed through the house roof killing the 6 occupants
Exactly BigG, some young people today don't know how lucky they are!
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How many wars have you fought in?
Tbf he has been trying his best to start one close enough to home that he would have the chance.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
You never met my lifelong Tory voting Grandad I take it?
On the Russian General’s death: This is not the worst part. In the phone call in which the FSB officer assigned to the 41st Army reports the death to his boss in Tula, he says they've lost all secure communications. Thus the phone call using a local sim card. Thus the intercept. His boss, who makes a looong pause when he hears the news of Gerassimov's death (before swearing), is Dmitry Shevchenko, a senior FSB officer from Tula. We identified him by searching for his phone (published by Ukrainian military Intel) in open source lookup apps. https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500971769146060804
They could actually win this at this rate... From other reports basically the entirety of the senior command structure of the 41st army has been killed or wounded.
Early days. But this could be the textbook military disaster invasion of the 21st century.
Regardless of what happens from here it has already been. The Russian bear has showed its' lack of teeth in public; Poland no longer has to fear Russian land forces. The absence of secure comms from Russia has been shocking, and is a sign of an army without resources. I wonder how the Russian Chief of Staff will react to his nephew and his command structure being taken out. Surely additional fire on the coup bonfire.
On a side note P&G and IBM have announced that they're pulling out of Russia this evening.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
We really do, tho. We have indulged the Irish for too long, out of a (justified) sense of guilt. We have more amortised the guilt. The Irish are free-loading on our defence spending even as they spit Anglophobic bile at us, for any reason possible
Due to their parasitic tax policies they are now some of the richest people on earth, at least theoretically. Enough special pleading from them. Let us treat them - fairly - like other EU citizens. Show your passport, no Free Movement, pay your fucking dues to NATO
And no more Albanian gangsters in Liverpool, thanks
Are you suggesting Ireland is not a real historic country, is a security threat, and therefore has no right to exist?
You know the best way to avoid this all leading to war? A “special operation” to demilitarise the fuckers.
I think that's right. While many denizens of PB and Twitter luxuriate in pontificating about who is 'winning', thousands of people are being killed on both sides; although Putin is to blame, that's no consolation for the dead or their families.
Let's be honest - nobody really has a clue who's 'winning' (although Ukraine are winning the propaganda war, at least outside Russia), but the odds favour Russia. For the people of Ukraine, a ceasefire would be helpful. That's not appeasement - it's trying to find a solution to save lives. More talking and less bombing should be the order of the day. Those who wish to just carry on warring from the comfort of their armchairs are just condemning thousands more people to death. In the end, some sort of diplomatic solution is inevitable; the sooner it comes, the quicker the pointless loss of lives can end.
No Russia has lost this. They could totally destroy Ukraine and they will still lose. Consider just this one aspect, the war has prompted Germany to rearm. There is no way in hell that that result could be equated with a victory. Keeping Germnay docile must be damn near the top of Russian strategic objectives. Putin has brought about something previously consider unthinkable, by any normal measure that is a grave strategic failure. And that's on top of the economic catastrophe that is only beginning, and a war that has every propect of making the Soviet war in Afghanistan looking well planned and fought.
Putin's War is already a failure, the only question remaining is how big a failure it will be or will he escalate further to a global war.
Quite so. Imagine pitching this war as "an idea" to the *politburo*.
"So you're saying that on Day 5 of the war Germany will commit to spending 100 billion euro on defence, as a hostile act against Russia?"
Silence
"Er, yes"
Silence. Silence.
Silence.
It is catastrophic in every way for Russia. The only question is whether Putin can drag others into the catastrophe, as he goes down
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
Didn't Boris's school report that circulated recently, and that by its nature would be intended for his parents, refer to him as Boris?
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
Yes, me too. Enough of the CTA
It might also give some Scot Nats pause for thought….
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
What freedoms did WW1 give us? Presumably the freedom to have another war, hooray.
Freedom from a German dominated Europe… Well, for 20 years.
Well, yes, that's the serious point behind my HYUFD elephant trap. Whatever people think were the positive outcomes of WW1, they're usually wrong. It was just one giant mess. In fact, I'll go as far as to say nobody won. Even the Bolsheviks, perhaps the ones who benefited most from that period, still had to put in the hard graft in the years following to attain and solidify their position. And I wouldn't exactly call that a win for the world either.
The reflex some people have to lump WW1 and WW2 together as great patriotic victories betrays a shallowness of knowledge and analysis.
Is HY an elephant? Than why the picture of a - what is that, a mule?
See the terms in the header Farooq, there’s an argument we shake hands on those saying thank you Vlad, most generous, and the killing stops, isn’t there?
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
What freedoms did WW1 give us? Presumably the freedom to have another war, hooray.
Freedom from a German dominated Europe… Well, for 20 years.
Well, yes, that's the serious point behind my HYUFD elephant trap. Whatever people think were the positive outcomes of WW1, they're usually wrong. It was just one giant mess. In fact, I'll go as far as to say nobody won. Even the Bolsheviks, perhaps the ones who benefited most from that period, still had to put in the hard graft in the years following to attain and solidify their position. And I wouldn't exactly call that a win for the world either.
The reflex some people have to lump WW1 and WW2 together as great patriotic victories betrays a shallowness of knowledge and analysis.
I sort of agree but theirs a nuance to it. Through the more recent reassessment of it I have dropped my “Blackadder” views of the First World War, can see why we fought it, and can appreciate how we overcame the Lions Led By Donkeys stuff.
But - the key lesson of all wars is to try not to have them because even when you win, you lose. Unless you’re American.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How many wars have you fought in?
My great great grandparents made sacrifices. My great grandparents made sacrifices. My grandparent's generation inherited the greatest economic miracle the world has ever known, destroyed the environment, burdened the country with debt, crippled the housing market, and are now sabre rattling over Ukraine with the most dangerous weapons in history and a reaction time of minutes.
Actually they didn't either, the greatest pollution in the UK happened in the Industrial Revolution, now most British energy comes from non fossil fuels.
Gordon Brown burdened the country with debt, boomers voted him out in 2010.
North of Watford there is no problem with the housing market, even many 20 year olds can buy their own homes even if on average incomes. South of Watford more get big inheritances and parental assistance for deposits and some benefit from very high incomes from working in London, the greatest global city in Europe now.
As far as I can see too most of those sabre rattling over Ukraine on here are themselves under 50
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
I think that's right. While many denizens of PB and Twitter luxuriate in pontificating about who is 'winning', thousands of people are being killed on both sides; although Putin is to blame, that's no consolation for the dead or their families.
Let's be honest - nobody really has a clue who's 'winning' (although Ukraine are winning the propaganda war, at least outside Russia), but the odds favour Russia. For the people of Ukraine, a ceasefire would be helpful. That's not appeasement - it's trying to find a solution to save lives. More talking and less bombing should be the order of the day. Those who wish to just carry on warring from the comfort of their armchairs are just condemning thousands more people to death. In the end, some sort of diplomatic solution is inevitable; the sooner it comes, the quicker the pointless loss of lives can end.
No Russia has lost this. They could totally destroy Ukraine and they will still lose. Consider just this one aspect, the war has prompted Germany to rearm. There is no way in hell that that result could be equated with a victory. Keeping Germnay docile must be damn near the top of Russian strategic objectives. Putin has brought about something previously consider unthinkable, by any normal measure that is a grave strategic failure. And that's on top of the economic catastrophe that is only beginning, and a war that has every propect of making the Soviet war in Afghanistan looking well planned and fought.
Putin's War is already a failure, the only question remaining is how big a failure it will be or will he escalate further to a global war.
Quite so. Imagine pitching this war as "an idea" to the *politburo*.
"So you're saying that on Day 5 of the war Germany will commit to spending 100 billion euro on defence, as a hostile act against Russia?"
Silence
"Er, yes"
Silence. Silence.
Silence.
It is catastrophic in every way for Russia. The only question is whether Putin can drag others into the catastrophe, as he goes down
Perhaps his best bet is just to declare the operation a success and unilaterally pull out.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
I agree entirely. On the other side of the political spectrum, I'm more relaxed nowadays about references to "Jeremy" by sychophants who can't say "Starmer" without instinctively spitting blood, but only because they're losing badly.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
I think it's great the Irish get the rights they do in the UK. Had an Irish chap stand for parliament not far from me, after time as a local councillor. Never seen an issue with integration. I did have a chap tell me he used to go by his second name because when he came over his irish name (which we shared, mine anglicised though) caused him some issues.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How was WW1 and WW2 for you, HYUFD? Do tell us about your sacrifices. ..
If I had lived 800 yards further up the road, and as a baby in my mother's arms under a steel table in Greater Manchester, I would have died with my family as Hitler's bomb crashed through the house roof killing the 6 occupants
Exactly BigG, some young people today don't know how lucky they are!
Pls don't get me started on generational warfare topics given how screwed we are because of boomers' selfishness.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How was WW1 and WW2 for you, HYUFD? Do tell us about your sacrifices. ..
If I had lived 800 yards further up the road, and as a baby in my mother's arms under a steel table in Greater Manchester, I would have died with my family as Hitler's bomb crashed through the house roof killing the 6 occupants
Exactly BigG, some young people today don't know how lucky they are!
I hope you don't think I'm being patronising here, but do you understand that the issue here is Vladimir Putin, a man you don't like, and Joe Biden, a man you don't like, are managing nuclear arsenals large enough to destroy the world several times over, not just a single table in Manchester? And they're playing geopolitics with enormous stakes? Do you seriously trust Putin or Biden with that kind of power? Why are you so pro-Putin/pro-Sleepy Joe?
I think that's right. While many denizens of PB and Twitter luxuriate in pontificating about who is 'winning', thousands of people are being killed on both sides; although Putin is to blame, that's no consolation for the dead or their families.
Let's be honest - nobody really has a clue who's 'winning' (although Ukraine are winning the propaganda war, at least outside Russia), but the odds favour Russia. For the people of Ukraine, a ceasefire would be helpful. That's not appeasement - it's trying to find a solution to save lives. More talking and less bombing should be the order of the day. Those who wish to just carry on warring from the comfort of their armchairs are just condemning thousands more people to death. In the end, some sort of diplomatic solution is inevitable; the sooner it comes, the quicker the pointless loss of lives can end.
No Russia has lost this. They could totally destroy Ukraine and they will still lose. Consider just this one aspect, the war has prompted Germany to rearm. There is no way in hell that that result could be equated with a victory. Keeping Germnay docile must be damn near the top of Russian strategic objectives. Putin has brought about something previously consider unthinkable, by any normal measure that is a grave strategic failure. And that's on top of the economic catastrophe that is only beginning, and a war that has every propect of making the Soviet war in Afghanistan looking well planned and fought.
Putin's War is already a failure, the only question remaining is how big a failure it will be or will he escalate further to a global war.
Quite so. Imagine pitching this war as "an idea" to the *politburo*.
"So you're saying that on Day 5 of the war Germany will commit to spending 100 billion euro on defence, as a hostile act against Russia?"
Silence
"Er, yes"
Silence. Silence.
Silence.
It is catastrophic in every way for Russia. The only question is whether Putin can drag others into the catastrophe, as he goes down
He lost his rational mind in mystic dreams of a mythical RU volk stretching from Poland to Japan Kuril.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
But he IS known as "Boris"
It's not something you can change by diktat on PB. The whole world knows him as Boris. Boris Bikes. Boris!
If you said "Johnson" you would actually confuse people. Who? Who is this Johnson character? Oh, you mean BORIS Johnson. Ah!
He has a brand. It has been tarnished, and it is clear you despise it. But it is a thing. Get over it
And Boris sounds a bit, well, Russian so might not be the positive it once was.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
I agree entirely.
Problem is it is provably bollocks. I won't harp on it again, but I'm amazed that sensible people buy into some nonsense explanation and narrative that use of a name has such power or implies a great deal about people. It's so simplistic and arrogant.
If Russia was agreeing to rebuild Kharkiv (and a thousand other towns) then maybe. They are not. Everyone will be skint after this
And, Ukrainians sense they are winning. It maybe somewhat delusional, born of social media, but there is a definite sense they are not only stalling the Evil Russians, they are pushing them back. Heroically
Do you sue for peace in that situation? I can't see it. Yes it is arguably logical - if you want to save your remaining towns - but Putin has pushed Ukraine far beyond cold logic. For them, this is surely existential, now. Russians are Nazis, who must lose. Both sides therefore need a "win" and that is a bad place for us all
As it stands at moment the longer this goes on the more that Putin is revealing that is superpower war machine is in fact a losing mess of drunks, incompetent conscripts crying for mum, useless officers and corrupt quartermasters. They can't even turn up to Kwick Fit once a year for a proper tyre change.
The maps he has on his massive desk are all lies. All the generals have been lying to him for years.
Yes, I agree, Russia is clearly losing, and all the hi-tech missiles that quietly became yachts are partly to blame
No way Russia does anything but lose, from here. Question is, does it lose alone, and if so, how badly? Or will the mad-hound Putin successfully launch a few nukes to save his "legacy"?
Russia is still gaining ground. While a Russian victory is no longer inevitable, it is still very possible that Russia throws enough men and machines in to gum up the machinery. I'd like to see some armed Ukrainian resistance in Russian occupied cities before throwing a 'Russia can't win' party.
Problem is that Russia losing isn't a synonym for Ukraine winning. I do want Russia to lose, to ensure there's a high price for invading countries, but I care about Ukraine, not Russia.
There are no winners. Both sides have lost. But only one side is culpable.
I think that's right. While many denizens of PB and Twitter luxuriate in pontificating about who is 'winning', thousands of people are being killed on both sides; although Putin is to blame, that's no consolation for the dead or their families.
Let's be honest - nobody really has a clue who's 'winning' (although Ukraine are winning the propaganda war, at least outside Russia), but the odds favour Russia. For the people of Ukraine, a ceasefire would be helpful. That's not appeasement - it's trying to find a solution to save lives. More talking and less bombing should be the order of the day. Those who wish to just carry on warring from the comfort of their armchairs are just condemning thousands more people to death. In the end, some sort of diplomatic solution is inevitable; the sooner it comes, the quicker the pointless loss of lives can end.
A solution which rewards the invasion and sets Ukraine up for another one in ten years (after Russia has fixed its military problems) is no solution at all.
That depends on the quality of the solution, doesn't it? You'll note that I didn't propose a solution in my post; that's beyond my pay grade. I merely proposed that a diplomatic solution is better than thousands, or tens of thousands, dying.
Ultimately it has to be a diplomatic solution, but that can only be reached when both sides want one. I don't think Putin does yet, though his scaled back demands suggest that even he realises things aren't going well.
Every day they can't win (and don't forget there must be 80 or 90% of Ukr so far left free) is another day when the economic shit grows for Putin and middle class RU realise this guy is going to totally fuck all their dreams for them and their chilldren.
Betting on middle-class Russians to decide the outcome misunderstands Russia IMO - we meet them, we hear lots about them because they're the usual contacts for journalists in Moscow. But they're not a decisive political force. The Army is, however, and it's conceivable that their losses will reach a stage that the generals think impossible to tolerate any longer. They might push Putin out. But they'd be just as likely to escalate as withdraw.
An honest question
You come across as - shall I say - more accommodating to Russia than most. How much, do you think, does this come from your youthful communism, when you must definitely have been sympathetic to Moscow? Have you asked yourself that? Maybe there is a lingering affection or admiration or loyalty, which goes beyond the facts as they are, now?
This is not a question designed to trip you up. I am genuinely curious. Because I have a couple of famuly members who are similar to you, if not way more extreme than you. One is an old lefty who just can't let go an innate pro-Russia instinct, even tho she admits that Russia is now anything but communist. Yet she still want Russia to "win", somehow...
Intriguing
It's a fair question, but I'd point out that my teenage communism was exactly because of the rise of the democratic western brand epitomised by Berlinguer in Italy and Hermansson in Sweden - they seemed to offer the possibility of getting the ideals of communism without the Soviet dictatorship and oppression that was obvious to me even then. So I was never a Russian sympathiser - you can believe that, since I've been open about my past views when really I didn't need to be. If I'd been a Kremlin stooge 55 years ago, meh, I'd admit it.
Putin seems even from that viewpoint the worst of both worlds - corrupt, oppressive power politics without a trace of the idealism. I've no interest in Russia being great again, a la Trump. Any sympathy I have for Russia in general is an acknowledgement to my mother, who I was very fond of and who was sympathetic to Russian patriotism even though she lived her whole adult life in Britain - her attitude was also shaped by the Russian role in defeating Nazism, and she was scathing about the Nazi collaborators in Ukraine and other neighbouring countries.
What that gives me is not some kind of sympathy for the invasion, which seems to me just czarist brutality, but a vicarious understanding of how (I think) many Russians think. So I won't sign up for any "grind Russia into the dust" camp, but it doesn't make me even faintly approve of what's going on.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
NI does, thanks to the EU and Dublin GB now has a hard border with Ireland in the Irish Sea.
39% of the Irish also speak Irish, Australians and New Zealanders do not speak a language distinct from English as well, nor do Canadians outside Quebec
Quite so. Imagine pitching this war as "an idea" to the *politburo*.
"So you're saying that on Day 5 of the war Germany will commit to spending 100 billion euro on defence, as a hostile act against Russia?"
Silence
"Er, yes"
Silence. Silence.
Silence.
It is catastrophic in every way for Russia. The only question is whether Putin can drag others into the catastrophe, as he goes down
Exactly. It's absurd that people are still thinking "Russia can win this", when Russia has already unended one of their most important strategic aims, and that's just one aspect. Trash the economy, revitalise NATO, rearm Germany, cut business ties with the West, see international air travel shut down, halve the value of the rouble, and lose men and materiel faster than in Afghanistan which was previously considered the canonical example of a stupid Soviet/Russian war. Genius!
I'm still not over the FSB phoning in major strategic losses over Ukrainian phone masts. That billion+ 'works in all conditions, everywhere' communication system they put in place has been shown to be a shambles over the past fortnight.
If Russia was agreeing to rebuild Kharkiv (and a thousand other towns) then maybe. They are not. Everyone will be skint after this
And, Ukrainians sense they are winning. It maybe somewhat delusional, born of social media, but there is a definite sense they are not only stalling the Evil Russians, they are pushing them back. Heroically
Do you sue for peace in that situation? I can't see it. Yes it is arguably logical - if you want to save your remaining towns - but Putin has pushed Ukraine far beyond cold logic. For them, this is surely existential, now. Russians are Nazis, who must lose. Both sides therefore need a "win" and that is a bad place for us all
As it stands at moment the longer this goes on the more that Putin is revealing that is superpower war machine is in fact a losing mess of drunks, incompetent conscripts crying for mum, useless officers and corrupt quartermasters. They can't even turn up to Kwick Fit once a year for a proper tyre change.
The maps he has on his massive desk are all lies. All the generals have been lying to him for years.
Yes, I agree, Russia is clearly losing, and all the hi-tech missiles that quietly became yachts are partly to blame
No way Russia does anything but lose, from here. Question is, does it lose alone, and if so, how badly? Or will the mad-hound Putin successfully launch a few nukes to save his "legacy"?
Russia is still gaining ground. While a Russian victory is no longer inevitable, it is still very possible that Russia throws enough men and machines in to gum up the machinery. I'd like to see some armed Ukrainian resistance in Russian occupied cities before throwing a 'Russia can't win' party.
Problem is that Russia losing isn't a synonym for Ukraine winning. I do want Russia to lose, to ensure there's a high price for invading countries, but I care about Ukraine, not Russia.
There are no winners. Both sides have lost. But only one side is culpable.
I think that's right. While many denizens of PB and Twitter luxuriate in pontificating about who is 'winning', thousands of people are being killed on both sides; although Putin is to blame, that's no consolation for the dead or their families.
Let's be honest - nobody really has a clue who's 'winning' (although Ukraine are winning the propaganda war, at least outside Russia), but the odds favour Russia. For the people of Ukraine, a ceasefire would be helpful. That's not appeasement - it's trying to find a solution to save lives. More talking and less bombing should be the order of the day. Those who wish to just carry on warring from the comfort of their armchairs are just condemning thousands more people to death. In the end, some sort of diplomatic solution is inevitable; the sooner it comes, the quicker the pointless loss of lives can end.
A solution which rewards the invasion and sets Ukraine up for another one in ten years (after Russia has fixed its military problems) is no solution at all.
That depends on the quality of the solution, doesn't it? You'll note that I didn't propose a solution in my post; that's beyond my pay grade. I merely proposed that a diplomatic solution is better than thousands, or tens of thousands, dying.
Isn't the last diplomatic solution responsible for the loss of life now? Obviously it has failed.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
Didn't Boris's school report that circulated recently, and that by its nature would be intended for his parents, refer to him as Boris?
Wonder if anyone ever called him "Pf" (pronounced "Piff") or (more likely) "de Pimple" or somesuch?
Seems natural among a group of boys (whether Young Etonians or Junior Crips) provided they were aware of his middle name. Certainly would have caused comment on MY old school yard!
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
People complaining about this post ought to realise that people in their 20s have been locked up for 2 years for a disease that hardly affects them, charged through the nose for university tuition (in some cases for little more than 2 years of glorified youtube videos and zoom calls), have watched house prices rise far faster than they could ever save for a deposit, witnessed (mostly) old people vote away their rights to live and work in Europe (if that's your thing), all while being told they're lazy, feckless and overprivileged.
Little wonder they're angry at the old order.
No, those whinging are spoilt brats on the whole (and not all that generation to be fair are whiners, some actually get on with it without complaint).
There are tuition fees now as 20 year olds today are more likely to have been to university than any generation before them, have a longer life expectancy than any generation before them, have more freedom in their private lives than any generation before them and have never had to fight a war.
The fact they might have been less likely to die from Covid than older people is also something they should be grateful for not whinging about and they have no restrictions again now.
20 year olds will also inherit more than any generation from their parents and grandparents too through those same house price rises and many also get help with deposits from their parents and grandparents as well, especially in London and the Home Counties.
As for free movement, plenty of working class 20 year olds voted Leave precisely because there was free movement of unskilled labour undercutting their wages now resolved by the points system we have. Even if middle class 20 year old Remainers find gap yahs take a bit extra paperwork
Ok, boomer.
I ain't no boomer, I am 40. However I respect my elders
Perhaps his best bet is just to declare the operation a success and unilaterally pull out.
Well if he's going full-North Korea it might even work, they can use VFX to show the great success of the Patriotic Liberation of Ukraine from the Jewish Nazis.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
NI does, thanks to the EU and Dublin GB now has a hard border with Ireland in the Irish Sea.
39% of the Irish also speak Irish, Australians and New Zealanders do not speak a language distinct from English as well, nor do Canadians outside Quebec
Fewer than 2% of the population of the Republic of Ireland today speak Irish on a daily basis, and under 10% regularly, outside of the education system.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How was WW1 and WW2 for you, HYUFD? Do tell us about your sacrifices. ..
If I had lived 800 yards further up the road, and as a baby in my mother's arms under a steel table in Greater Manchester, I would have died with my family as Hitler's bomb crashed through the house roof killing the 6 occupants
Exactly BigG, some young people today don't know how lucky they are!
Pls don't get me started on generational warfare topics given how screwed we are because of boomers' selfishness.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
Even tonight Boris has been in a conference with Biden - Macron and Scholz
Why would we be part of the EU’s defence planning? We left. Would we expect the EU to be part of the UK’s defence planning? Rocking up to discuss budgets etc in Whitehall? The ERG would do their nut. We’re not in the EU, they’re not in the U.K. Farcical thinking.
And I wish people (well, you and HYUFD mostly) would stop making Johnson the only person in politics who gets called by a familiar name other than his surname. It’s “Johnson, Biden, Macron and Scholz” or “Boris, Joe, Emmanuel and Olaf”. You can’t have it both ways.
Wow you've triggered the fanbois.
"Boris" is essentially Mr Johnson's stage name. Family and friends call him Alexander or Al. Referring to him by his preferred stage name smacks of sychophancy. He is not our friend, we are simply gullible peasants, if he was our friend he would say "you can call me Al".
You can call me Al, with some justification.
You can call me Al, too.
Just don't call me Betty.
Surely you wouldn't call me Shirley? (Or even Leslie!)
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
Perhaps his best bet is just to declare the operation a success and unilaterally pull out.
Well if he's going full-North Korea it might even work, they can use VFX to show the great success of the Patriotic Liberation of Ukraine from the Jewish Nazis.
To be fair, he could quite easily prove that as of today there are no significant Nazi groups around the Ukraine Government. It would be true.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
And six counties that require equal rights and voting between Britons and Irish.
We do also allow Commonwealth citizens to vote too.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
NI does, thanks to the EU and Dublin GB now has a hard border with Ireland in the Irish Sea.
39% of the Irish also speak Irish, Australians and New Zealanders do not speak a language distinct from English as well, nor do Canadians outside Quebec
Fewer than 2% of the population of the Republic of Ireland today speak Irish on a daily basis, and under 10% regularly, outside of the education system.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
People complaining about this post ought to realise that people in their 20s have been locked up for 2 years for a disease that hardly affects them, charged through the nose for university tuition (in some cases for little more than 2 years of glorified youtube videos and zoom calls), have watched house prices rise far faster than they could ever save for a deposit, witnessed (mostly) old people vote away their rights to live and work in Europe (if that's your thing), all while being told they're lazy, feckless and overprivileged.
Little wonder they're angry at the old order.
No, those whinging are spoilt brats on the whole (and not all that generation to be fair are whiners, some actually get on with it without complaint).
There are tuition fees now as 20 year olds today are more likely to have been to university than any generation before them, have a longer life expectancy than any generation before them, have more freedom in their private lives than any generation before them and have never had to fight a war.
The fact they might have been less likely to die from Covid than older people is also something they should be grateful for not whinging about and they have no restrictions again now.
20 year olds will also inherit more than any generation from their parents and grandparents too through those same house price rises and many also get help with deposits from their parents and grandparents as well, especially in London and the Home Counties.
As for free movement, plenty of working class 20 year olds voted Leave precisely because there was free movement of unskilled labour undercutting their wages now resolved by the points system we have. Even if middle class 20 year old Remainers find gap yahs take a bit extra paperwork
Ok, boomer.
I ain't no boomer, I am 40. However I respect my elders
Why? Age confers no moral superiority at all. Nor no need for deference. It's just not having died yet
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
People complaining about this post ought to realise that people in their 20s have been locked up for 2 years for a disease that hardly affects them, charged through the nose for university tuition (in some cases for little more than 2 years of glorified youtube videos and zoom calls), have watched house prices rise far faster than they could ever save for a deposit, witnessed (mostly) old people vote away their rights to live and work in Europe (if that's your thing), all while being told they're lazy, feckless and overprivileged.
Little wonder they're angry at the old order.
No, those whinging are spoilt brats on the whole (and not all that generation to be fair are whiners, some actually get on with it without complaint).
There are tuition fees now as 20 year olds today are more likely to have been to university than any generation before them, have a longer life expectancy than any generation before them, have more freedom in their private lives than any generation before them and have never had to fight a war.
The fact they might have been less likely to die from Covid than older people is also something they should be grateful for not whinging about and they have no restrictions again now.
20 year olds will also inherit more than any generation from their parents and grandparents too through those same house price rises and many also get help with deposits from their parents and grandparents as well, especially in London and the Home Counties.
As for free movement, plenty of working class 20 year olds voted Leave precisely because there was free movement of unskilled labour undercutting their wages now resolved by the points system we have. Even if middle class 20 year old Remainers find gap yahs take a bit extra paperwork
Ok, boomer.
I ain't no boomer, I am 40. However I respect my elders
Why? Age confers no moral superiority at all. Nor no need for deference. It's just not having died yet
The most secure and stable societies respect the wisdom and experience of their elders
I think that's right. While many denizens of PB and Twitter luxuriate in pontificating about who is 'winning', thousands of people are being killed on both sides; although Putin is to blame, that's no consolation for the dead or their families.
Let's be honest - nobody really has a clue who's 'winning' (although Ukraine are winning the propaganda war, at least outside Russia), but the odds favour Russia. For the people of Ukraine, a ceasefire would be helpful. That's not appeasement - it's trying to find a solution to save lives. More talking and less bombing should be the order of the day. Those who wish to just carry on warring from the comfort of their armchairs are just condemning thousands more people to death. In the end, some sort of diplomatic solution is inevitable; the sooner it comes, the quicker the pointless loss of lives can end.
No Russia has lost this. They could totally destroy Ukraine and they will still lose. Consider just this one aspect, the war has prompted Germany to rearm. There is no way in hell that that result could be equated with a victory. Keeping Germnay docile must be damn near the top of Russian strategic objectives. Putin has brought about something previously consider unthinkable, by any normal measure that is a grave strategic failure. And that's on top of the economic catastrophe that is only beginning, and a war that has every propect of making the Soviet war in Afghanistan looking well planned and fought.
Putin's War is already a failure, the only question remaining is how big a failure it will be or will he escalate further to a global war.
Quite so. Imagine pitching this war as "an idea" to the *politburo*.
"So you're saying that on Day 5 of the war Germany will commit to spending 100 billion euro on defence, as a hostile act against Russia?"
Silence
"Er, yes"
Silence. Silence.
Silence.
It is catastrophic in every way for Russia. The only question is whether Putin can drag others into the catastrophe, as he goes down
He lost his rational mind in mystic dreams of a mythical RU volk stretching from Poland to Japan Kuril.
Mad. And losing.
Yes, that is my reading
I have a smart friend who is convinced that Putin is just acting up, and "playing" the crazy man, so he can outfox his opponents by being unpredictable. The usual mad man theorem
I don't buy it in this case. This war was so obviously a losing play, from the start, so much could go wrong, and what do you gain? Really? What is the obvious upside? And nearly everything has gone wrong, and Putin has gained nothing, and lost much. Already
Even if he grinds out some terrible attritional unsustainable victory, and necessarily turns Russia into a bullying occupying Fascist state, in the meantime - loathed by the world, and isolated to boot - the victory comes at such a terrible cost it is clearly worthless.
The young wily Putin would have seen this. Something has happened to him interim. Absolute power has driven him crazy, as is so often the case. Whenever I wonder about two term limits on presidents, I think about Putin and Xi and I think: Yes, Very Wise
Thatcher was basically mad after ten years as PM. "We have become a grandmother"
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
NI does, thanks to the EU and Dublin GB now has a hard border with Ireland in the Irish Sea.
39% of the Irish also speak Irish, Australians and New Zealanders do not speak a language distinct from English as well, nor do Canadians outside Quebec
Fewer than 2% of the population of the Republic of Ireland today speak Irish on a daily basis, and under 10% regularly, outside of the education system.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
People complaining about this post ought to realise that people in their 20s have been locked up for 2 years for a disease that hardly affects them, charged through the nose for university tuition (in some cases for little more than 2 years of glorified youtube videos and zoom calls), have watched house prices rise far faster than they could ever save for a deposit, witnessed (mostly) old people vote away their rights to live and work in Europe (if that's your thing), all while being told they're lazy, feckless and overprivileged.
Little wonder they're angry at the old order.
No, those whinging are spoilt brats on the whole (and not all that generation to be fair are whiners, some actually get on with it without complaint).
There are tuition fees now as 20 year olds today are more likely to have been to university than any generation before them, have a longer life expectancy than any generation before them, have more freedom in their private lives than any generation before them and have never had to fight a war.
The fact they might have been less likely to die from Covid than older people is also something they should be grateful for not whinging about and they have no restrictions again now.
20 year olds will also inherit more than any generation from their parents and grandparents too through those same house price rises and many also get help with deposits from their parents and grandparents as well, especially in London and the Home Counties.
As for free movement, plenty of working class 20 year olds voted Leave precisely because there was free movement of unskilled labour undercutting their wages now resolved by the points system we have. Even if middle class 20 year old Remainers find gap yahs take a bit extra paperwork
Ok, boomer.
I ain't no boomer, I am 40. However I respect my elders
Why? Age confers no moral superiority at all. Nor no need for deference. It's just not having died yet
The most secure and stable societies respect the wisdom and experience of their elders
So why should I listen to you? You should listen to me. It's a very reductive attitude.
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
People complaining about this post ought to realise that people in their 20s have been locked up for 2 years for a disease that hardly affects them, charged through the nose for university tuition (in some cases for little more than 2 years of glorified youtube videos and zoom calls), have watched house prices rise far faster than they could ever save for a deposit, witnessed (mostly) old people vote away their rights to live and work in Europe (if that's your thing), all while being told they're lazy, feckless and overprivileged.
Little wonder they're angry at the old order.
No, those whinging are spoilt brats on the whole (and not all that generation to be fair are whiners, some actually get on with it without complaint).
There are tuition fees now as 20 year olds today are more likely to have been to university than any generation before them, have a longer life expectancy than any generation before them, have more freedom in their private lives than any generation before them and have never had to fight a war.
The fact they might have been less likely to die from Covid than older people is also something they should be grateful for not whinging about and they have no restrictions again now.
20 year olds will also inherit more than any generation from their parents and grandparents too through those same house price rises and many also get help with deposits from their parents and grandparents as well, especially in London and the Home Counties.
As for free movement, plenty of working class 20 year olds voted Leave precisely because there was free movement of unskilled labour undercutting their wages now resolved by the points system we have. Even if middle class 20 year old Remainers find gap yahs take a bit extra paperwork
Ok, boomer.
I ain't no boomer, I am 40. However I respect my elders
Why? Age confers no moral superiority at all. Nor no need for deference. It's just not having died yet
The most secure and stable societies respect the wisdom and experience of their elders
Respecting wisdom and experience does not mean automatic acceptance of the will of those elders, or abasement to their wishes. Respect does not mean gerontocracy.
Some of the stuff people have come up with like restricting voting of people above a certain age is just wrong, but it isn't required to take a comedically extreme stance in opposition to prove your respect for elderly people. They're just people.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
And a history of fighting Irishmen!
I was genuinely sad Paisley the elder didn’t make it to the last few years NI politics, just because I feel we missed out on some truly comic “NEVER NEVER NEVER” moments through Brexit. Could have cheered us all up a bit.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
NI does, thanks to the EU and Dublin GB now has a hard border with Ireland in the Irish Sea.
39% of the Irish also speak Irish, Australians and New Zealanders do not speak a language distinct from English as well, nor do Canadians outside Quebec
Fewer than 2% of the population of the Republic of Ireland today speak Irish on a daily basis, and under 10% regularly, outside of the education system.
Ability to speak Irish doesn't mean they usually speak it! In the 2016 census, only 74,000 people in the Republic spoke Irish on a daily basis (1.7%).
It's not exactly a conspiracy theory to think that as a matter of national pride perhaps more may claim to be able to speak it than in fact can, perhaps through generous estimation of their own abilities.
Comments
"❗️ It is known from the report that the head of the missile forces and artillery of the 41st All-Military Army of the Central Command, Colonel Serhiy Trofimov, was also wounded.
In fact, the staff work of the 41st Army was beheaded and disorganized. This is about 8-10 thousand troops"
Seems like a very significant special forces operation. The fact that Generals are going down to the convoys or artillery units indicates that they either don't trust, or are running out of middle management.
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500970445889327118
"This is not the worst part. In the phone call in which the FSB officer assigned to the 41st Army reports the death to his boss in Tula, he says they've lost all secure communications. Thus the phone call using a local sim card. Thus the intercept.".
If Kharkiv's defenders are still fairly cohesive I'd expect to see a major push asap.
My take on war is that both sides collapse. It's just a question of which side collapses first.
There is no reason to trust Putin, and every reason for any rational person utterly to distrust him.
His is a totalitarian dictator who is responsible for mass murder.
The Russian position is that Ukraine must disarm before they leave. How on earth does that work ?
Given that, all the other terms are an irrelevance.
This is not the worst part. In the phone call in which the FSB officer assigned to the 41st Army reports the death to his boss in Tula, he says they've lost all secure communications. Thus the phone call using a local sim card. Thus the intercept.
His boss, who makes a looong pause when he hears the news of Gerassimov's death (before swearing), is Dmitry Shevchenko, a senior FSB officer from Tula. We identified him by searching for his phone (published by Ukrainian military Intel) in open source lookup apps.
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500971769146060804
So don't take that attitude with me!!!!
Little wonder they're angry at the old order.
Winston Johnson.
Take the phrase "That c*nt Boris!"
I've heard that more than once, and it is powerful - much more powerful than "that c+nt Cameron" or "Blair" or whatever. The familiarity of the first name makes the cursing more emotional
So it is a double edged sword.
The reason this subject is so tiresome is that it is nearly always dull, lower-middle-brow, low-watt Remoaners that bring it up. Tedious fucks who bang on and on, the Steve Brays of social media bellowing on their megaphones. Tragic figures. Please get a life
They’re sophisticated, clever – and they always deliver’: from the ports of Europe to the streets of London, one criminal network is now at the top of the UK’s £5bn trade...
They have shown that you don’t have to be greedy to dominate drug markets. They’ve gone down the route of sustainable prices, good quality.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/kings-of-cocaine-albanian-mafia-uk-drugs-crime
The dementia-ridden dotards waving the threat of nuclear apocalypse at each other are Boomers.
She decided to flee Vietnam for her former enemy, because of her hatred at oppression by North Vietnamese carpetbagger, as we would say this side of the Pacific (and Atlantic).
Putin's War is already a failure, the only question remaining is how big a failure it will be or will he escalate further to a global war.
There are tuition fees now as 20 year olds today are more likely to have been to university than any generation before them, have a longer life expectancy than any generation before them, have more freedom in their private lives than any generation before them and have never had to fight a war.
The fact they might have been less likely to die from Covid than older people is also something they should be grateful for not whinging about and they have no restrictions again now.
20 year olds will also inherit more than any generation from their parents and grandparents too through those same house price rises and many also get help with deposits from their parents and grandparents as well, especially in London and the Home Counties.
As for free movement, plenty of working class 20 year olds voted Leave precisely because there was free movement of unskilled labour undercutting their wages now resolved by the points system we have. Even if middle class 20 year old Remainers find gap yahs take a bit extra paperwork
Now that evil shadow of war between powers, and possible nuclear apocalypse has returned because of ageing Boomers like Putin who want to re-live their youths. You are right to be angry.
https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/7-march-president-zelensky-decided-to-recall-ukrainian-peacekeepers…
https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1500944899029581826
"IQ rates are dropping in many developed countries and that doesn't bode well for humanity"
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576
Blame your older siblings, and, I am afraid, your own genetic stupidity. You are just much dumber than us. Sorry
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
My great great grandparents made sacrifices. My great grandparents made sacrifices. My grandparent's generation inherited the greatest economic miracle the world has ever known, destroyed the environment, burdened the country with debt, crippled the housing market, and are now sabre rattling over Ukraine with the most dangerous weapons in history and a reaction time of minutes.
I just look forward to voting him out of office at the first opportunity.
On a side note P&G and IBM have announced that they're pulling out of Russia this evening.
"So you're saying that on Day 5 of the war Germany will commit to spending 100 billion euro on defence, as a hostile act against Russia?"
Silence
"Er, yes"
Silence. Silence.
Silence.
It is catastrophic in every way for Russia. The only question is whether Putin can drag others into the catastrophe, as he goes down
See the terms in the header Farooq, there’s an argument we shake hands on those saying thank you Vlad, most generous, and the killing stops, isn’t there?
But - the key lesson of all wars is to try not to have them because even when you win, you lose. Unless you’re American.
However, it IS possible to fail upward. As demonstrated by the current British cabinet?
Edit - Though it's arguable, that repeated failures punctuated by occasional successes, is quintessentially Churchillian?
Gordon Brown burdened the country with debt, boomers voted him out in 2010.
North of Watford there is no problem with the housing market, even many 20 year olds can buy their own homes even if on average incomes. South of Watford more get big inheritances and parental assistance for deposits and some benefit from very high incomes from working in London, the greatest global city in Europe now.
As far as I can see too most of those sabre rattling over Ukraine on here are themselves under 50
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000r370
Mad. And losing.
Putin seems even from that viewpoint the worst of both worlds - corrupt, oppressive power politics without a trace of the idealism. I've no interest in Russia being great again, a la Trump. Any sympathy I have for Russia in general is an acknowledgement to my mother, who I was very fond of and who was sympathetic to Russian patriotism even though she lived her whole adult life in Britain - her attitude was also shaped by the Russian role in defeating Nazism, and she was scathing about the Nazi collaborators in Ukraine and other neighbouring countries.
What that gives me is not some kind of sympathy for the invasion, which seems to me just czarist brutality, but a vicarious understanding of how (I think) many Russians think. So I won't sign up for any "grind Russia into the dust" camp, but it doesn't make me even faintly approve of what's going on.
39% of the Irish also speak Irish, Australians and New Zealanders do not speak a language distinct from English as well, nor do Canadians outside Quebec
Obviously it has failed.
Tic toc, Putin. Tic toc.
Seems natural among a group of boys (whether Young Etonians or Junior Crips) provided they were aware of his middle name. Certainly would have caused comment on MY old school yard!
We do also allow Commonwealth citizens to vote too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_the_Irish_language
https://twitter.com/maleman_guy/status/1500948723416895489
Age confers no moral superiority at all. Nor no need for deference. It's just not having died yet
Strewth! You're a millennial!
I have a smart friend who is convinced that Putin is just acting up, and "playing" the crazy man, so he can outfox his opponents by being unpredictable. The usual mad man theorem
I don't buy it in this case. This war was so obviously a losing play, from the start, so much could go wrong, and what do you gain? Really? What is the obvious upside? And nearly everything has gone wrong, and Putin has gained nothing, and lost much. Already
Even if he grinds out some terrible attritional unsustainable victory, and necessarily turns Russia into a bullying occupying Fascist state, in the meantime - loathed by the world, and isolated to boot - the victory comes at such a terrible cost it is clearly worthless.
The young wily Putin would have seen this. Something has happened to him interim. Absolute power has driven him crazy, as is so often the case. Whenever I wonder about two term limits on presidents, I think about Putin and Xi and I think: Yes, Very Wise
Thatcher was basically mad after ten years as PM. "We have become a grandmother"
You should listen to me.
It's a very reductive attitude.
Some of the stuff people have come up with like restricting voting of people above a certain age is just wrong, but it isn't required to take a comedically extreme stance in opposition to prove your respect for elderly people. They're just people.