Reuters: Ukraine still has a "significant majority" of its military aircraft available nine days after Russian forces started their full-scale invasion of the country, according to an unnamed U.S. defense official. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499879763120431107
Putin is definitely a Greater Russian Nationalist, with all that entails. Like many such belief structures, it is also a resection complex. They are Out To Get Russia.
We (perhaps most people here) think of the world in a hierarchies. These vary according to the subject. When it comes to Greater X Nationalism, it is the military hierarchy that counts. Economics figures as well - as the engine for the military, though.
The conventional hierarchy for military capability is something like
1) USA 2) China 3) Russia 4) France/UK etc
Third in the world? Not bad, surely for Russia. In the Big Boys club.
But, we are seeing Ukraine putting up serious resistance to invasion. If Ukraine had a bit more military capability it would *defeating* Russia.
Part of the Greater X Nationalistic schtick is that all the other little nations in the neighbourhood should cower, subservient to and existing at the Will of the Benevolent Great Nation. The larger powers welcome Greater X to the special table for Big Boys.
Now NATO enters - with it comes enormous military backup.
Suddenly every little country can *challenge* Greater Russia. With NATO backing, Estonia could fight a war with Russia and win.
The new rankings look like
1) USA 2) China 3) France/UK 4)...
(all the NATO countries) x) Estonia x+1) Russia
Ha ha - Estonia, win? you say. But we have seen with Ukraine - a country next door to Russia, next to the railways they rely on for logistics - Russia struggles. As they get further away their ability falls. and it has been getting *less* comparatively for years.
There is good reason to think that the army in and around Ukraine is *all* the real army they have. The mass conscripts are a desperate gamble....
Estonia would get the full NATO thing behind them - the Americans and others will send an endless, endless supply of weapons and men.
NATO reduces Russia to nothingness.... 72nd on the list or something.
How much the Russian leadership sees this, is up for debate. But their addiction to compulsive compulsive claims of wonder weapons that tip the military balance their way is rather telling, if you look at it in this light.
Suddenly Russia is surrounded with potential winners, not potential victims. That is not being Greater Russia. That is being Little Russia.
When you add in the American interest in missile defence, that would take away the big, last difference - nuclear blackmail. As a Greater Russian sees it, a world where Poland has a missile defence system that means that Russian nuke might not get through, is a world where
Russia is inferior to Poland or any other NATO country.
Is this the root cause of what we are seeing? Putin lashing out at being turned into an ordinary country.
Vilain : Respect is everything. Without respect, we are just people. Common, shitty people.
Putin might rather *die* than just be President of a common, "shitty" (as he sees it) country.
Russia's armed forces looks weak and ineffective compared those in the rest of Europe. Their army is poorly trained. Their vehicles badly maintained and prone to breakdowns. Their supply lines are chaotic. And their ability to turn this around is hampered by sanctions.
Would anyone doubt Poland's ability - with their F16s and other NATO kit - to kick Russia's ass?
On home turf? I think it would be 60/40 to Poland - if they were next to Russia. With the whole railway-for-logistics dependency, I wonder what force the Russians could *get* to Poland.
I'm sure there are reasons people can find to mock how I've worded it, but this is what I've sent to tell Ukraine that I'll help if they think I can.
I imagine you're earning a good wedge over here? The best thing to do might be to put in the hours and donate a significant portion of your salary and help the donation campaigns. Not flashy but unless you've got the language skills you'll be a liability over there.
I've just been made redundant; my payoff has got got me in the black for the first time I can remember. My landlord has sold my house and I have to move out by the end of the month.
I can feed freedom fighters. I hope I can do it fearlessly.
Reuters: Ukraine still has a "significant majority" of its military aircraft available nine days after Russian forces started their full-scale invasion of the country, according to an unnamed U.S. defense official. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499879763120431107
Well they can hardly tell everyone to unite around the war effort, as they'll put you in jail for calling it a war.
Oh, what a lovely Special Military Operation!
Special Military Operation and Peace Special Military Operation (what is it good for?)
Star Special Military Operations Special Military Operation Games Casualties of Special Military Operation Special Military Operation Horse Special Military Operation of the Worlds
Who can forget Jack Hawkins in The Cruel Sea, holding back tears of exhaustion and defeat, and spitting out in his gravelly voice
"It's the whole bloody Special Military Operation."
Einstein thought the only way to avoid nuclear war was by a world government- At some point we need to bring Russia back - We cannot always"win" or always be angelic or plucky (the UK is more vulnerable than most in a nuclear war precisely because we like to win and be the goodie) . There has to be compromise and negotiation and a bit of swallowing pride
It's not just about swallowing pride - it's a matter of setting a precedent in which aggression pays. Then we will be in an even more dangerous world. Of course it's really Putin who ought to swallow his pride but since he won't we'll have to instead I presume you're saying.
The opposite could happen Frank. In Russia those responsible for this, and those supporting them could become very unpopular. Do you not see all those Russians opposing this, either from the start or at least now as our friends? Those with which we can sign a “never this again” treaty? Much like the French and Germans have. That seems to be working.
I obviously see the world differently than you do. Those of us in our 20s just see messes the over 40s leaving for us we would never have made because our world view is utterly different to yours.
To be blunt, you lot lived in a world that shrank, you can’t handle it, you really can’t, you hate it, you want to turn the clocks back. Those of us younger, the generations after us too, we have no problem with the shrunken world, the global village, we will calmly tidy up your messes and dismantle all your “contraptions” for turning back the clock.
Basically put, your world view is not founded upon anything timeless, it’s actually timing out. That’s what I mean by “the opposite” of your post happening.
You don't really believe all that nonsense about people in their 20s and the over 40s?
Stupidity will always be with us. It doesn't depend on age.
Well yes I do believe the older generations know what globalisation has done, so hate the ravaged country they are living in. Politics that promises to turn back time appeals to them.
The younger generations don’t see it the same, and I’m certain never will.
Two different views of the same thing? Of course! the first erecting contraptions based on its view, those with the second, ripping them down.
I actually thought you would see it as good news, I don’t know where you got word stupid from. The younger generation in Russia removing Putin’s world view, and then shaking hands with us. What’s stupid about that? What’s stupid about saying, those in this country with the same “turn back time” view as Putin are equally as doomed?
I'm sure there are reasons people can find to mock how I've worded it, but this is what I've sent to tell Ukraine that I'll help if they think I can.
I imagine you're earning a good wedge over here? The best thing to do might be to put in the hours and donate a significant portion of your salary and help the donation campaigns. Not flashy but unless you've got the language skills you'll be a liability over there.
I've just been made redundant; my payoff has got got me in the black for the first time I can remember. My landlord has sold my house and I have to move out by the end of the month.
I can feed freedom fighters. I hope I can do it fearlessly.
Wish you all the best with whatever you choose.
last thought. Are there any aid missions going out? Maybe the refugee charities need people who can speak fluent English for visa stuff?
I'm sure there are reasons people can find to mock how I've worded it, but this is what I've sent to tell Ukraine that I'll help if they think I can.
I imagine you're earning a good wedge over here? The best thing to do might be to put in the hours and donate a significant portion of your salary and help the donation campaigns. Not flashy but unless you've got the language skills you'll be a liability over there.
I've just been made redundant; my payoff has got got me in the black for the first time I can remember. My landlord has sold my house and I have to move out by the end of the month.
I can feed freedom fighters. I hope I can do it fearlessly.
Wish you all the best with whatever you choose.
last thought. Are there any aid missions going out? Maybe the refugee charities need people who can speak fluent English for visa stuff?
There ought to be plenty of people scared of defending Ukraine that can do that sort of stuff.
I'm sure there are reasons people can find to mock how I've worded it, but this is what I've sent to tell Ukraine that I'll help if they think I can.
I imagine you're earning a good wedge over here? The best thing to do might be to put in the hours and donate a significant portion of your salary and help the donation campaigns. Not flashy but unless you've got the language skills you'll be a liability over there.
I've just been made redundant; my payoff has got got me in the black for the first time I can remember. My landlord has sold my house and I have to move out by the end of the month.
I can feed freedom fighters. I hope I can do it fearlessly.
Hats off to you.
Maybe volunteering via an aid agency to assist the refugees that have escaped Ukraine would be both valuable and valiant.
Reuters: Ukraine still has a "significant majority" of its military aircraft available nine days after Russian forces started their full-scale invasion of the country, according to an unnamed U.S. defense official. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499879763120431107
Well they can hardly tell everyone to unite around the war effort, as they'll put you in jail for calling it a war.
Oh, what a lovely Special Military Operation!
Special Military Operation and Peace Special Military Operation (what is it good for?)
Star Special Military Operations Special Military Operation Games Casualties of Special Military Operation Special Military Operation Horse Special Military Operation of the Worlds
Who can forget Jack Hawkins in The Cruel Sea, holding back tears of exhaustion and defeat, and spitting out in his gravelly voice
"It's the whole bloody Special Military Operation."
"Property of Russian elites could be handed to Ukrainian refugees, says Raab Deputy PM defends response to invasion after criticism the government has acted too slowly over sanctions"
"Property of Russian elites could be handed to Ukrainian refugees, says Raab Deputy PM defends response to invasion after criticism the government has acted too slowly over sanctions"
Reuters: Ukraine still has a "significant majority" of its military aircraft available nine days after Russian forces started their full-scale invasion of the country, according to an unnamed U.S. defense official. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499879763120431107
Well they can hardly tell everyone to unite around the war effort, as they'll put you in jail for calling it a war.
Oh, what a lovely Special Military Operation!
Special Military Operation and Peace Special Military Operation (what is it good for?)
Star Special Military Operations Special Military Operation Games Casualties of Special Military Operation Special Military Operation Horse Special Military Operation of the Worlds
Who can forget Jack Hawkins in The Cruel Sea, holding back tears of exhaustion and defeat, and spitting out in his gravelly voice
"It's the whole bloody Special Military Operation."
Putin has already defeated the minds of his enemies.
How so?
They believe and fear his threats enough to sacrifice Ukraine for their temporary sanctuary.
So. You are saying Putin's threats are an empty bluff? That he really isn't bonkers enough to risk literally billions dead? That's a heck of a high stakes gamble that your mind is more sound than others.
He won't end his own existence over Ukraine.
I'm not advising that we march on Moscow.
Somebody is going to have to hold the Ukrainians back from heading to Moscow though....once they have cleaned the mud off the Red Army's kit. And retaken Crimea.
Two thirds of the 1m+ Ukranian refugees have headed to Poland (UNHCR).
That implies that approx 2% of the entire Polish population is a newly arrived Ukrainian refugee.
We really really do need to be relieving some of the pressure on Poland by pulling the refugees West. I say it again, the transport is right there ready. They can get the train all the way to Calais and it will cost them not a penny. All we need to do is open the door wide and say come.
I find it difficult to express just how disappointed I am with the UK Government over this. Patel in particular should hang her head in shame.
A friend of mine has a big country house in Norfolk. He has offered to take 6 Ukrainian families.
Well, whoopy doo. How many other big houses does he own? Does he actually ever live in the one you are referring to? What is the state of its interior decor? Would there be council tax benefits from fillling it with ukies? Are you trying to fill a gap left by the late lamented @Charles?
Just the first qs which spring to mind.
1. none 2. its his home 3. just spent a fortune doing it up 4. have to ask the council 5. impossible
The problem, as Leon alludes to, is that they might never want to return to Ukraine. So let's tell them they can't come, eh? Be for the best all round....
But do let me know if you have any q's that spring to mind.
Nae problem, but if he has had to seriously do up a house which will comfortably take 6 families plus him, he is worth £100m min, and prob £200m min before he started. All genuinely totally admirable but what he tells us about the bigger picture is hard to see.
We aren't talking Mayfair here - it's Norfolk! He ain't no oligarch....
I'm sure there are reasons people can find to mock how I've worded it, but this is what I've sent to tell Ukraine that I'll help if they think I can.
I would never mock anybody for being willing to fight but my heartfelt advice is don't go.
Thank you for not taking the piss. And for what reads like genuine concern.
But I will do whatever they ask.
I also will not take the piss. But please look at a website where people *do* take the piss - https://kiwifarms.net/threads/r-volunteersforukraine.113841/ - and think very, very hard about what such merciless trolls would say about your efforts... and whether they have a point.
There are plenty of ways you can assist without "knowing what you're doing". One very simple one (and there's loads like this) is phoning up Russian interests and generally being a nuisance - it's much easier to DDOS phone lines than web sites.
"Property of Russian elites could be handed to Ukrainian refugees, says Raab Deputy PM defends response to invasion after criticism the government has acted too slowly over sanctions"
Now about that £25,000 of Russian funding your campaign allegedly received.
"Could" in the headline seems to mean that the LDs suggested it, it is being discussed in govt and Gove is in favour. Not that it is going to happen shortly or is even a government policy.
I love this concept that the EU have been much more muscular with military side of things.....the UK has been sending support for years, in particular past several months basically everything went via UK, and the training e.g. the SAS trained the SoF (who apparently have been doing extremely well against Russian VDV).
The Germans for instance thought sending some helmets until a couple of days ago was good enough and even yesterday sent them soviet era piece of shit weapons that have been stuck in a warehouse in Eastern Germany for the past 30 odd years. They are more likely to blow up the Ukrainians trying to use them.
I don't think the Germans missiles will actually blow up, I think they will simply make a "pssss.... klum..." noise, and fail to fire.
There's already reports out of Ukraine that the weapons the Germans sent are "mouldy" and don't work properly or at all so have been scrapped. UK, US and Swedish weapons coming out on top at the moment according to the research people at home. Lots of pledges from European countries but not a lot arriving is the other constant theme.
One interesting analysis (from last week, I only got to read it this morning) suggested that the US and UK should deploy special forces in Ukraine to defend nuclear power stations from any Russian attacks due to the risk of catastrophic outcomes. I feel as though that junior researcher deserves a raise.
Do we not think that there might already be some "lost businessmen" in Ukraine?
Potentially, but probably in a passive/training role rather than actively defending key sites.
Until yesterday, I am not sure anybody thought the Russian would be idiotic enough to start shelling a nuclear facility and firing on emergency vehicles when they arrived to try and put out the fires.
My preferred "non-intervention" would be paying some close attention to those hundreds of parked helicopters in Belarus just north of the border, perhaps by former army / specials who 'join up' to the Ukrainian Foreign Legion (or whatever it is called at present).
UK has been involved with the US and the EU since day one
Indeed I have said on many occasions this should bring us closer, but what you and others of a similar bigoted mindset do not realise is that your constant sniping is actually negative to your hopes of a close relationship
That tweet has now been deleted. I think the claim is fictional.
In reality the EU has been Balkanised between the countries who better understand the risks of Russia - the Eastern edge, the Scandis and most of the South East / Med, which aligned more with the UK position of vigorous support for Ukraine, and parts of the Brussels establishment, the French, Germans and a few others who though that stroking Putin would work.
There seem to be quite a few EU figleaf narratives coming out in the last 24 hours - I'm surprised. As ever the ultimate focus is on Brussels' self-image. There will be some filthy politics as this crisis develops, just as there was to divert responsibility for vaccine mistakes.
Just like their boss, some of Boris Johnson’s Cabinet can’t resist a bit of self promotion.
Rishi Sunak has his signature all over glossy social media messages. Priti Patel dresses up in police uniform. Sajid Javid has YouTube videos of a national tour that featured his childhood home. Liz Truss is famed for Instagram snaps of her trips to far flung places (often with a taxpayer-funded photographer in tow).
By contrast, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace doesn’t exactly court publicity. His Instagram page has a grand total of eight posts, including a local newspaper-style snap of him putting money in a Poppy Day collecting tin. He shuns “cosplay Cabinet” photo-ops in tanks or fighter jets, preferring his lounge suit to military fatigues.
But what Wallace lacks in the PR stakes of some of his colleagues, he more than makes up for it with his no-nonsense approach to his job, many Tory MPs believe.
"Property of Russian elites could be handed to Ukrainian refugees, says Raab Deputy PM defends response to invasion after criticism the government has acted too slowly over sanctions"
Now about that £25,000 of Russian funding your campaign allegedly received.
"Could" in the headline seems to mean that the LDs suggested it, it is being discussed in govt and Gove is in favour. Not that it is going to happen shortly or is even a government policy.
Usual hot air from Tories, lots of fine words and no action other than fill their bankbooks, lying barstewards.
Comments
At the risk of sounding a bit like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Charles_Beresford, after the Battle Of Dogger Bank - would it be unfair on the Russians to send everyone or just half?
I can feed freedom fighters. I hope I can do it fearlessly.
"It's the whole bloody Special Military Operation."
But I will do whatever they ask.
@_RichardHall
·
1h
I don’t want to hear anyone talking about the license fee for at least a decade.
The younger generations don’t see it the same, and I’m certain never will.
Two different views of the same thing? Of course! the first erecting contraptions based on its view, those with the second, ripping them down.
I actually thought you would see it as good news, I don’t know where you got word stupid from. The younger generation in Russia removing Putin’s world view, and then shaking hands with us. What’s stupid about that? What’s stupid about saying, those in this country with the same “turn back time” view as Putin are equally as doomed?
last thought. Are there any aid missions going out? Maybe the refugee charities need people who can speak fluent English for visa stuff?
Maybe volunteering via an aid agency to assist the refugees that have escaped Ukraine would be both valuable and valiant.
Now about that £25,000 of Russian funding your campaign allegedly received.
What’s he planning to do? Nothing.
This is the sort of shit PB does best! 🙃
There are plenty of ways you can assist without "knowing what you're doing". One very simple one (and there's loads like this) is phoning up Russian interests and generally being a nuisance - it's much easier to DDOS phone lines than web sites.
In reality the EU has been Balkanised between the countries who better understand the risks of Russia - the Eastern edge, the Scandis and most of the South East / Med, which aligned more with the UK position of vigorous support for Ukraine, and parts of the Brussels establishment, the French, Germans and a few others who though that stroking Putin would work.
There seem to be quite a few EU figleaf narratives coming out in the last 24 hours - I'm surprised. As ever the ultimate focus is on Brussels' self-image. There will be some filthy politics as this crisis develops, just as there was to divert responsibility for vaccine mistakes.