Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
I'd prefer a country moderately well off with a comfortable,.prosperous general population and gangster-driven wealth concentration.
"A museum in Paris has removed its wax figure of Russian President Vladimir Putin after it was damaged by visitors in protest against the invasion of Ukraine."
Of course, being a waxwork it looks nothing like Putin and puts me more in mind of Bishop the android from Aliens.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
I'd prefer a country moderately well off with a comfortable,.prosperous general population and gangster-driven wealth concentration.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
I'd prefer a country moderately well off with a comfortable,.prosperous general population and gangster-driven wealth concentration.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
I'd prefer a country moderately well off with a comfortable,.prosperous general population and gangster-driven wealth concentration.
And NO gangster driven wealth concentration!!
Phew. No chance that we'll ever bring this mistake up ever again of course
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
I'd prefer a country moderately well off with a comfortable,.prosperous general population and gangster-driven wealth concentration.
Why do you want the latter?
I may have made a slight typo. Barely changed the meaning.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
I'd prefer a country moderately well off with a comfortable,.prosperous general population and gangster-driven wealth concentration.
On the subject of occupations, the story of eastern Karelia is fascinating. Finland evacuated the entire native speaking population of Vyborg, a large city, and the surrounding area at the end of the second world war. It became part of the Soviet Union, who repopulated it. Vyborg still has the appearance of a Finnish city, with some beautiful architecture (including some Alvar Aalto buildings), but is inhabited exclusively by Russians. Following the end of the cold war, Finland has never pursued any territorial claims on this area, and is very hesitant to inherit any native Russian population.
I have to say Vyborg looked very run down and dingy when we took the train through it a few years back. Maybe the station's not near the Aalto buildings though.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
I'd prefer a country moderately well off with a comfortable,.prosperous general population and gangster-driven wealth concentration.
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Tragic. Why didn't I ever get the chance to become a corript oligarch in my 20s?
Because you are a fundamentally decent human being.
I’ve met many in my various peregrinations. I don’t like any of them.
You don't like any "fundamentally decent human being"s?
Bit harsh....
EDIT: Are you one of these people in favour of gangster driven wealth concentration?
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
There was too the memory of the horrible historic crimes in the East too, and an understandable reluctance to be even slightly militaristic there.
Spread on how long before the first squawking about the old, bad, militaristic Germany on the rise starts? As I recall that was a primary factor in the blessed Margaret being against German reunification.
It's time to move on, even that was 30 years ago for Christ's sake. I think the squawking may be less than you expect.
Get back to me when squawking about the return of the Soviet Union (which was..gasp..dissolved 30 years ago) stops. People tend to resort to sterile cliché, here as much as anywhere else.
The Soviet Union cliche at least has some relevance, given Putin, while not ideologically a fan, is on record as lamenting its fall because of what it did to Russia, and his desire to expand Russia's sphere of influence in areas once covered by it is driving his actions right now.
I am not a historical expert, but by comparison I am pretty sure there are additional elements at play in fears of German militarism which would not apply if they increase their defence spending to 2%, things like an aggressive government for a start. So your 'gasp' comment is just silly if you cannot figure out a difference between the two.
I'm not saying there won't be squawking, but you like to trawl through twitter for examples of your opponent's idiotic comments (and why not, it is fun), but you surely know when it is a significant or representative opinion. And that does make a difference - if a Cabinet Minister or the First Minister says something it is more signidicant than if some random councillor in nowhereburg says something, and people trying to equate the two look like fools.
Honestly, what is the problem here? I wasn't saying you need to move on, I was saying people in general need to, and that I am optimistic fewer will be fools than you think. I may be wrong, but we shall see. I can be optimistic about human nature occasionally.
Er, no problem, you leaped in with a word salad in response to an observation that you say has some accuracy. Chill oot.
Word salad is my default state, it denotes nothing. Chilling out is also good advice, if curious when you're getting pre-outraged and/or mocking about comments that haven't even happened yet! Perhaps we should both take your advice, and also wait for said comments in order to be chill?
I'm certainly not arguing with it denotes nothing. Insofar as any outrage you might discern in a one liner, it would likely be based on the relentless atavism on here that routinely relates any actions of eg Germany, France and Italy to Nazism or Fascism or collaboration, and viewing anyone taking a slightly nuanced view as appeasers and enablers. But hey, just banter, so chill again.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Tragic. Why didn't I ever get the chance to become a corript oligarch in my 20s?
Because you are a fundamentally decent human being.
I’ve met many in my various peregrinations. I don’t like any of them.
You don't like any "fundamentally decent human being"s?
Bit harsh....
EDIT: Are you one of these people in favour of gangster driven wealth concentration?
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Tragic. Why didn't I ever get the chance to become a corript oligarch in my 20s?
Because you are a fundamentally decent human being.
I’ve met many in my various peregrinations. I don’t like any of them.
You don't like any "fundamentally decent human being"s?
Bit harsh....
EDIT: Are you one of these people in favour of gangster driven wealth concentration?
Political Partridge @PoliticalAP Да! Это расширитель!
Is this one of those Soviet photos where the number of people in the picture with the Great Leader stay exactly the same> I said exactly the same, comrade {gunshot}......
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Tragic. Why didn't I ever get the chance to become a corript oligarch in my 20s?
Yes a great pity. But I don't think just not being Russian ruled you out. Was there something in the Russian 'soul' that meant totalitarian communism had to turn into cowboy capitalist kleptocracy? No, I don't believe so.
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
Well, the most pro-Russian areas have left the Ukraine - either they are now controlled by rebels in the far, far East, or they were in Crimea. Between those two, you're looking at 15-20% of the population.
And the repatriation of the Crimea also made a lot of Ukrainians who were on the fence about Russia vs the West really reconsider their views.
On the subject of occupations, the story of eastern Karelia is fascinating. Finland evacuated the entire native speaking population of Vyborg, a large city, and the surrounding area at the end of the second world war. It became part of the Soviet Union, who repopulated it. Vyborg still has the appearance of a Finnish city, with some beautiful architecture (including some Alvar Aalto buildings), but is inhabited exclusively by Russians. Following the end of the cold war, Finland has never pursued any territorial claims on this area, and is very hesitant to inherit any native Russian population.
I have to say Vyborg looked very run down and dingy when we took the train through it a few years back. Maybe the station's not near the Aalto buildings though.
Its pretty much all on streetview if you want to look again. I didn't think it looked too bad.
I heard the World at One today. Heartbreaking. I know people become inured to the human consequences of this but it is a necessary listen.
Yeah, for all the talk about arms, humanitarian aid and medicines etc. are just as important. But even that doesn't make up for lives being turned upside down. It is very sad.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
Because the main effect of that would be the reduction of 10s of millions of already dirt poor people to complete destitution.
I heard the World at One today. Heartbreaking. I know people become inured to the human consequences of this but it is a necessary listen.
Yeah, for all the talk about arms, humanitarian aid and medicines etc. are just as important. But even that doesn't make up for lives being turned upside down. It is very sad.
Apparently, Omicron is also doing it's thing there
"A museum in Paris has removed its wax figure of Russian President Vladimir Putin after it was damaged by visitors in protest against the invasion of Ukraine."
Of course, being a waxwork it looks nothing like Putin and puts me more in mind of Bishop the android from Aliens.
Is there one of Putin in Madam Tussauds? (Yes I know it would be hard to tell because so few of the figures resemble who they are supposed to be but I'd still like to know.)
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
Because the main effect of that would be the reduction of 10s of millions of already dirt poor people to complete destitution.
I heard the World at One today. Heartbreaking. I know people become inured to the human consequences of this but it is a necessary listen.
Yeah, for all the talk about arms, humanitarian aid and medicines etc. are just as important. But even that doesn't make up for lives being turned upside down. It is very sad.
Oh yes, you just have to look at the absolute devastation in Ukraine to realise how miserable it must be for the inhabitants. Kyiv is not Grozny yet, but it's also easy to see how a few months of artillery and rocket barrages will reduce it to that.
Whatever happens next, tens of thousands of Ukrainians will have lost their homes and their jobs. They will have gone hungry. Many will be severely injured or die.
And for what?
So that Russia can extend its borders a little further westward, and suffer a constant low level insurgency?
I heard the World at One today. Heartbreaking. I know people become inured to the human consequences of this but it is a necessary listen.
Yeah, for all the talk about arms, humanitarian aid and medicines etc. are just as important. But even that doesn't make up for lives being turned upside down. It is very sad.
Apparently, Omicron is also doing it's thing there
"I've only been on the ground for just over 12 hours but it seems to me that these people here are absolutely determined to fight," he added.
Mr Holloway said he ran into "Ukraine's top concert pianist" who was "fascinating" to talk to as he said so many people were volunteering for the military "they're only taking people with actual military experience - there just aren't enough guns".
It is unclear exactly why the MP has travelled to the country or what he intends to do while there, although he previously worked as an investigative journalist for ITN and ITV.
Good. Whether it takes awhile or not, if it is what they want they need the EU to progress it on their smoothly. Not that tackling any issues Ukraine has will be easy with parts of it under Russian occupation (hopefully not as much as Putin was planning for)
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
Bear in mind that since then the Crimea and Donbas haven't participated in Ukranian elections, thereby taking 4 million or so ethnic Russians out of the electorate.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
Because the main effect of that would be the reduction of 10s of millions of already dirt poor people to complete destitution.
Great post.
Are you still upset about being told off?
Shouldn't you be on the phone banks telling your Russian "friends" that they ought to feel jolly small?
Don't try to be funny. It is clear from the post I was replying to that you either rejoice in the thought of other peoples' misery, or are too thick to realise that is what you are doing, or some amazingly attractive combination of the two.
I am guessing you are a middle class arsehole who has never left Europe, and don't realise what poverty looks like. You are certainly a dildo.
I heard the World at One today. Heartbreaking. I know people become inured to the human consequences of this but it is a necessary listen.
Yeah, for all the talk about arms, humanitarian aid and medicines etc. are just as important. But even that doesn't make up for lives being turned upside down. It is very sad.
Oh yes, you just have to look at the absolute devastation in Ukraine to realise how miserable it must be for the inhabitants. Kyiv is not Grozny yet, but it's also easy to see how a few months of artillery and rocket barrages will reduce it to that.
Whatever happens next, tens of thousands of Ukrainians will have lost their homes and their jobs. They will have gone hungry. Many will be severely injured or die.
And for what?
So that Russia can extend its borders a little further westward, and suffer a constant low level insurgency?
That's why Putin will be gone. The dissent is clearly already building.
Whether Lukashenko, Shoygu, or someone else replaces him I don't know, but I think he's cooked his goose.
"I've only been on the ground for just over 12 hours but it seems to me that these people here are absolutely determined to fight," he added.
Mr Holloway said he ran into "Ukraine's top concert pianist" who was "fascinating" to talk to as he said so many people were volunteering for the military "they're only taking people with actual military experience - there just aren't enough guns".
It is unclear exactly why the MP has travelled to the country or what he intends to do while there, although he previously worked as an investigative journalist for ITN and ITV.
Poor 'photo of world leader in action' effort. He's not even shown holding phone, how will I know they spoke?
I just spoke with President Zelenskyy to discuss our continued support for Ukraine — including security assistance and humanitarian aid — as it defends itself against Russian aggression. We will hold Russia accountable, and our sanctions are already having a devastating impact.
I heard the World at One today. Heartbreaking. I know people become inured to the human consequences of this but it is a necessary listen.
Yeah, for all the talk about arms, humanitarian aid and medicines etc. are just as important. But even that doesn't make up for lives being turned upside down. It is very sad.
Apparently, Omicron is also doing it's thing there
Poor 'photo of world leader in action' effort. He's not even shown holding phone, how will I know they spoke?
I just spoke with President Zelenskyy to discuss our continued support for Ukraine — including security assistance and humanitarian aid — as it defends itself against Russian aggression. We will hold Russia accountable, and our sanctions are already having a devastating impact.
Poor 'photo of world leader in action' effort. He's not even shown holding phone, how will I know they spoke?
I just spoke with President Zelenskyy to discuss our continued support for Ukraine — including security assistance and humanitarian aid — as it defends itself against Russian aggression. We will hold Russia accountable, and our sanctions are already having a devastating impact.
Poor 'photo of world leader in action' effort. He's not even shown holding phone, how will I know they spoke?
I just spoke with President Zelenskyy to discuss our continued support for Ukraine — including security assistance and humanitarian aid — as it defends itself against Russian aggression. We will hold Russia accountable, and our sanctions are already having a devastating impact.
I saw that. It was agonising. I thought Boris dealt with it as well as he possibly could. He listened respectfully without interruption and then was absolutely honest with her, none of his usual waffle or bombast. He was visibly upset. As was I.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
Because the main effect of that would be the reduction of 10s of millions of already dirt poor people to complete destitution.
Great post.
Are you still upset about being told off?
Shouldn't you be on the phone banks telling your Russian "friends" that they ought to feel jolly small?
Don't try to be funny. It is clear from the post I was replying to that you either rejoice in the thought of other peoples' misery, or are too thick to realise that is what you are doing, or some amazingly attractive combination of the two.
I am guessing you are a middle class arsehole who has never left Europe, and don't realise what poverty looks like. You are certainly a dildo.
Ah so you really are still upset. With your wits though I will concede you must know poverty all too well.
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
This is what @Scott_xP dreams of happening to Brexit support here.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
That’s really quite dim.
Why punish the already poor general Russian citizenry?
They don’t get to vote in free elections so their gov isn’t really their choice.
They cannot have proper opposition parties so again it’s not their choice.
If you suppress a populace then they get beaten down and have no agency to change anything or…..
The population listen to wankers like Trump who sell a great story and make undeliverable promises and non delivery is blamed on new world order, the Jooz, Hilary Clinton, Paedo pizza shops.
Finally when you have nothing to live for then life is cheap. When life is cheap and there are no options then people will join gangs, extreme parties and ultimately terrorist groups - try Somalia as an example.
The amount of money wasted on weapons - drop bundles of cash and import girls because when the average person finds themselves with a home, a car, a wife, prospects then funnily enough they don’t want to lose that to be shot in a swamp in Ukraine, blow themselves up in a souk or face any kind of unecessary death as weirdly life is generally good - life, a few beers, a wife/girlfriend, a bit of shopping for something nice on a Saturday, watching your sports team.
If people have nothing then they have nothing to lose.
BBC: Motorsport's governing body the FIA has ruled that Russian drivers can continue to compete in global events, though not under the Russian flag...The same will apply to Belarusian drivers due to Minsk's support for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Competitors from the two countries will fly a neutral banner and must make “specific commitment and adherence to the FIA’s principles of peace and political neutrality, until further notice”, the body said.
If orgs go down this route the banner should be designed by the invaded country, so prevent that Russian Olympic Committee bollocks where the disguise is not even paper thin.
I saw that. It was agonising. I thought Boris dealt with it as well as he possibly could. He listened respectfully without interruption and then was absolutely honest with her, none of his usual waffle or bombast. He was visibly upset. As was I.
It is the simple truth - push Putin too far and we all get meet my idea of God.
I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis. Propose any action and you are gung ho armchair warrior trying to start WWIII. Acknowledge any limits to what can be done - then you are standing by, doing nothing.
Poor 'photo of world leader in action' effort. He's not even shown holding phone, how will I know they spoke?
I just spoke with President Zelenskyy to discuss our continued support for Ukraine — including security assistance and humanitarian aid — as it defends itself against Russian aggression. We will hold Russia accountable, and our sanctions are already having a devastating impact.
I saw that. It was agonising. I thought Boris dealt with it as well as he possibly could. He listened respectfully without interruption and then was absolutely honest with her, none of his usual waffle or bombast. He was visibly upset. As was I.
As was Daria with her very impressive and heartfelt speech. Cycle free should perhaps add it to the three in the header.
Now I don't like Johnson. I have said many times I disapprove of his campaign at any opportunity style of politics. I am a Johnson cynic so unsurprisingly I have raised an eyebrow at each of his photo ops over the last ten days. No one will thus be surprised at my view that if he hadn't been grandstanding around Eastern Europe today this wouldn't have happened.
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
That’s really quite dim.
Why punish the already poor general Russian citizenry?
They don’t get to vote in free elections so their gov isn’t really their choice.
They cannot have proper opposition parties so again it’s not their choice.
If you suppress a populace then they get beaten down and have no agency to change anything or…..
The population listen to wankers like Trump who sell a great story and make undeliverable promises and non delivery is blamed on new world order, the Jooz, Hilary Clinton, Paedo pizza shops.
Finally when you have nothing to live for then life is cheap. When life is cheap and there are no options then people will join gangs, extreme parties and ultimately terrorist groups - try Somalia as an example.
The amount of money wasted on weapons - drop bundles of cash and import girls because when the average person finds themselves with a home, a car, a wife, prospects then funnily enough they don’t want to lose that to be shot in a swamp in Ukraine, blow themselves up in a souk or face any kind of unecessary death as weirdly life is generally good - life, a few beers, a wife/girlfriend, a bit of shopping for something nice on a Saturday, watching your sports team.
If people have nothing then they have nothing to lose.
Yeah maybe. When this started I thought that appealing to the Russian people and telling them that they weren't our enemy was the right path. However I changed my mind. I now think that making sure every last Russian knows how much we hate this is the better path. The Russians are rich enough to deal with in such a way. Every last Russian shares a litle responsibility for what their nation has become.
BBC: Motorsport's governing body the FIA has ruled that Russian drivers can continue to compete in global events, though not under the Russian flag...The same will apply to Belarusian drivers due to Minsk's support for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Competitors from the two countries will fly a neutral banner and must make “specific commitment and adherence to the FIA’s principles of peace and political neutrality, until further notice”, the body said.
If orgs go down this route the banner should be designed by the invaded country, so prevent that Russian Olympic Committee bollocks where the disguise is not even paper thin.
Why are there national flags at all in motorsport?
There is no need to have flags.
Especially in motorsport where there is a multi-national team behind any driver.
I saw that. It was agonising. I thought Boris dealt with it as well as he possibly could. He listened respectfully without interruption and then was absolutely honest with her, none of his usual waffle or bombast. He was visibly upset. As was I.
It is the simple truth - push Putin too far and we all get meet my idea of God.
I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis. Propose any action and you are gung ho armchair warrior trying to start WWIII. Acknowledge any limits to what can be done - then you are standing by, doing nothing.
The world is certainly a lot more complicated with nuclear weapons in it.
BBC: Motorsport's governing body the FIA has ruled that Russian drivers can continue to compete in global events, though not under the Russian flag...The same will apply to Belarusian drivers due to Minsk's support for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Competitors from the two countries will fly a neutral banner and must make “specific commitment and adherence to the FIA’s principles of peace and political neutrality, until further notice”, the body said.
If orgs go down this route the banner should be designed by the invaded country, so prevent that Russian Olympic Committee bollocks where the disguise is not even paper thin.
If you read the statement from the British Paralympic Committee yesterday it felt like they could withdraw athletes if Russia was not barred from competing. If they did it would be a big statement, GB is the only country to have had representatives at every summer and winter Olympics and Paralympics.
"Given the magnitude of the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Ukraine we cannot see how the participation of Russia or Belarus in the Beijing 2022 Paralympic Winter Games is compatible with the objectives of the Paralympic movement."
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
Well, the most pro-Russian areas have left the Ukraine - either they are now controlled by rebels in the far, far East, or they were in Crimea. Between those two, you're looking at 15-20% of the population.
And the repatriation of the Crimea also made a lot of Ukrainians who were on the fence about Russia vs the West really reconsider their views.
@rcs1000 I am not sure you can rely on this 4% figure you are quoting. The second biggest party in the 2019 Parliamentary election (the most recent one) was 'opposition platform - for life' which got 13.8% of the vote share. This is a pro Russian party. So is the 'Opposition Bloc', which got around 3%. There are large numbers of other parties, some of which are pro Russian. And this was an election which did not take place in the areas occupied by Russia (Ie Crimea, Donbass etc). From what I can see it seems that the pro Russian figure might be closer to 15-20%. Not insignificant, but undoubtedly undermined by the loss of Crimea.
I saw that. It was agonising. I thought Boris dealt with it as well as he possibly could. He listened respectfully without interruption and then was absolutely honest with her, none of his usual waffle or bombast. He was visibly upset. As was I.
It is the simple truth - push Putin too far and we all get meet my idea of God.
I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis. Propose any action and you are gung ho armchair warrior trying to start WWIII. Acknowledge any limits to what can be done - then you are standing by, doing nothing.
I certainly understand that.
Suggest boundaries might need redrawing and a feckwit argues you support the White Australia Policy.
I saw that. It was agonising. I thought Boris dealt with it as well as he possibly could. He listened respectfully without interruption and then was absolutely honest with her, none of his usual waffle or bombast. He was visibly upset. As was I.
It is the simple truth - push Putin too far and we all get meet my idea of God.
I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis. Propose any action and you are gung ho armchair warrior trying to start WWIII. Acknowledge any limits to what can be done - then you are standing by, doing nothing.
The world is certainly a lot more complicated with nuclear weapons in it.
It's simpler. Even Fat Boy from North Korea gets it.
If you rude enough to people, You die.
God comes to say hi. Real Angry and Old Testament - like before he had the kid and mellowed.
Hiding under mountains doesn't work. You die.
No philosophy, no lies, no tricks will save you. The Bomb sees you and doesn't care.
I saw that. It was agonising. I thought Boris dealt with it as well as he possibly could. He listened respectfully without interruption and then was absolutely honest with her, none of his usual waffle or bombast. He was visibly upset. As was I.
It is the simple truth - push Putin too far and we all get meet my idea of God.
I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis. Propose any action and you are gung ho armchair warrior trying to start WWIII. Acknowledge any limits to what can be done - then you are standing by, doing nothing.
I certainly understand that.
Suggest boundaries might need redrawing and a feckwit argues you support the White Australia Policy.
If you can't conceive that people from multiple cultural backgrounds might not want their country chopped up by the fuckwit from next door... Well, then you pretty much *are* selling the One Ethnicity baggy. And that shit is fucked.
In 2016, Johnson told a referendum rally that the EU partnership agreement with Ukraine had “caused real trouble”. Things in Ukraine “went wrong”, because “all the EU can do is cause confusion”. Putin, a supporter of Brexit, agreed. By @rafaelbehr
BBC: Motorsport's governing body the FIA has ruled that Russian drivers can continue to compete in global events, though not under the Russian flag...The same will apply to Belarusian drivers due to Minsk's support for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Competitors from the two countries will fly a neutral banner and must make “specific commitment and adherence to the FIA’s principles of peace and political neutrality, until further notice”, the body said.
If orgs go down this route the banner should be designed by the invaded country, so prevent that Russian Olympic Committee bollocks where the disguise is not even paper thin.
F1 have missed a trick. Haas and Mazepin are so utterly shit that it would do more damage to have them trundling round the track like a bad Lada driven by a vodka fuelled Moscow Taxi driver.
They should actually demand Haas have Russian flags all over the livery and little pictures of Vlad on the nose that keep getting broken whenever Mazepin gets near another car.
They could even demand a team name change to blend the Constituent factors into the name - Maz 1F aas.
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
I think you have to look at what has happened since Zelensky was elected in 2019. For a start he is an ethnic Russian. Funnily enough during the campaign his opponent and predecessor used Zelensky's Russian background to claim he would be Moscow's man in Ukraine. Once in power he removed immunity for Members of Parliament and introduced laws to remove the power of the Oligarchs in Ukraine. He also sacked all 15 regional Oblast leaders and heads of the main law enforcement agencies. Once that was all done he reached out to the separatists and tried to get a peace deal which included recognising the result of elections run by the separatists in their regions.
Basically from what I can see he has bent over backwards to do whatever he can to bridge any divide between ethnic Russians and Ukrainians. I get the impression the people generally can see this and understand it which is why so many ethnic Russians are siding with Ukraine as their country against their cousins from the East.
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
I think you have to look at what has happened since Zelensky was elected in 2019. For a start he is an ethnic Russian. Funnily enough during the campaign his opponent and predecessor used Zelensky's Russian background to claim he would be Moscow's man in Ukraine. Once in power he removed immunity for Members of Parliament and introduced laws to remove the power of the Oligarchs in Ukraine. He also sacked all 15 regional Oblast leaders and heads of the main law enforcement agencies. Once that was all done he reached out to the separatists and tried to get a peace deal which included recognising the result of elections run by the separatists in their regions.
Basically from what I can see he has bent over backwards to do whatever he can to bridge any divide between ethnic Russians and Ukrainians. I get the impression the people generally can see this and understand it which is why so many ethnic Russians are siding with Ukraine as their country against their cousins from the East.
Interesting. He's definetly earned his place in history; no doubt he will be studied for many years to come.
I am clear in my mind that Putin is a grave threat to Europe and that his regime needs to be overthrown. But as for Ukrainian politics, this is something I know nothing about.
I saw that. It was agonising. I thought Boris dealt with it as well as he possibly could. He listened respectfully without interruption and then was absolutely honest with her, none of his usual waffle or bombast. He was visibly upset. As was I.
It is the simple truth - push Putin too far and we all get meet my idea of God.
I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis. Propose any action and you are gung ho armchair warrior trying to start WWIII. Acknowledge any limits to what can be done - then you are standing by, doing nothing.
I certainly understand that.
Suggest boundaries might need redrawing and a feckwit argues you support the White Australia Policy.
If you can't conceive that people from multiple cultural backgrounds might not want their country chopped up by the fuckwit from next door... Well, then you pretty much *are* selling the One Ethnicity baggy. And that shit is fucked.
That is clearly not what I ever said.
You have simply traduced me. I expect it from a weapons-grade wanker like you.
But, I loved the lofty disinterested way in which you opined on the pitfalls of others, "I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis ...."
Let's have some more Friends of Malmsbury anecdotes, please.
You know the kind of stuff, "Putin rapes his closest advisors with plutonium rods. Had the intel from a retired friend of mine whose a retired nuclear technologist."
I saw that. It was agonising. I thought Boris dealt with it as well as he possibly could. He listened respectfully without interruption and then was absolutely honest with her, none of his usual waffle or bombast. He was visibly upset. As was I.
It is the simple truth - push Putin too far and we all get meet my idea of God.
I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis. Propose any action and you are gung ho armchair warrior trying to start WWIII. Acknowledge any limits to what can be done - then you are standing by, doing nothing.
I certainly understand that.
Suggest boundaries might need redrawing and a feckwit argues you support the White Australia Policy.
If you can't conceive that people from multiple cultural backgrounds might not want their country chopped up by the fuckwit from next door... Well, then you pretty much *are* selling the One Ethnicity baggy. And that shit is fucked.
That is clearly not what I ever said.
You have simply traduced me. I expect it from a weapons-grade wanker like you.
But, I loved the lofty disinterested way in which you opined on the pitfalls of others, "I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis ...."
Let's have some more Friends of Malmsbury anecdotes, please.
You know the kind of stuff, "Putin rapes his closest advisors with plutonium rods. Had the intel from a retired friend of mine whose a retired nuclear technologist."
I wouldn't know about that. But he does have some form with giving away samples of Polonium to former friends, I believe.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
I thought it was in Florida and was called The Mar-a-Lago Club
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
Too true. There's a case to be made for saying the international criminal court does much more harm then good, sadly.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
Saint Helena worked in the past
Perhaps following in the footsteps of Napoleon would appeal to his ego.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
Poor 'photo of world leader in action' effort. He's not even shown holding phone, how will I know they spoke?
I just spoke with President Zelenskyy to discuss our continued support for Ukraine — including security assistance and humanitarian aid — as it defends itself against Russian aggression. We will hold Russia accountable, and our sanctions are already having a devastating impact.
Check out the poverty of books on those shelves too. You'd think The White House could afford some of those fake 'leather bound' blocks of books you see in Whetherspoons pubs.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
Saint Helena worked in the past
Sort of. The overall stick Napoleon on an island thang cost 100 000s of lives.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
Saint Helena worked in the past
Perhaps following in the footsteps of Napoleon would appeal to his ego.
That thought crossed my mind, maybe it should be a council flat in Luton (or any of the places in 'Crap Towns')
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
I think you have to look at what has happened since Zelensky was elected in 2019. For a start he is an ethnic Russian. Funnily enough during the campaign his opponent and predecessor used Zelensky's Russian background to claim he would be Moscow's man in Ukraine. Once in power he removed immunity for Members of Parliament and introduced laws to remove the power of the Oligarchs in Ukraine. He also sacked all 15 regional Oblast leaders and heads of the main law enforcement agencies. Once that was all done he reached out to the separatists and tried to get a peace deal which included recognising the result of elections run by the separatists in their regions.
Basically from what I can see he has bent over backwards to do whatever he can to bridge any divide between ethnic Russians and Ukrainians. I get the impression the people generally can see this and understand it which is why so many ethnic Russians are siding with Ukraine as their country against their cousins from the East.
Interesting. He's definetly earned his place in history; no doubt he will be studied for many years to come.
I am clear in my mind that Putin is a grave threat to Europe and that his regime needs to be overthrown. But as for Ukrainian politics, this is something I know nothing about.
Neither did I until last week. Since then I have been reading a lot about it, both ancient and modern. All of Zelensky's predecessors were pretty shitty people. Typical politicians able to push their own agendas in a country that was too used to either dictators or instability. He really does seem to stand out as one of those rare instances of an honest politician trying to do what is best for his people.
Of course he was only there for less than 3 years before this all blew up so who knows if he would have succumbed to the power trip as his political career continued.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
Saint Helena worked in the past
Perhaps following in the footsteps of Napoleon would appeal to his ego.
His table manners were better - at least he sat in earshot of his guests.*
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
Saint Helena worked in the past
Perhaps following in the footsteps of Napoleon would appeal to his ego.
Ascension Island. Or Tristan de Cunha on the inhabitable side.
In fact, that might be a better punishment - the memory of his "greatness" would gnaw at him until he died.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
There are some who would say the really cool bit about democracy is not the philosophical or ethical bits, but that we get to have a coup every 4-5 years. A coup without all the bloodshed and breaking of teacups. The former ruler goes away quietly, and writes some memoirs that no-one ever reads.
Poor 'photo of world leader in action' effort. He's not even shown holding phone, how will I know they spoke?
I just spoke with President Zelenskyy to discuss our continued support for Ukraine — including security assistance and humanitarian aid — as it defends itself against Russian aggression. We will hold Russia accountable, and our sanctions are already having a devastating impact.
Check out the poverty of books on those shelves too. You'd think The White House could afford some of those fake 'leather bound' blocks of books you see in Whetherspoons pubs.
Trump probably nicked them. Fake books to adorn a bookshelf would be exactly his speed.
This is a man who claims to have done this, while sober
Re Germany, they made a massive fundamental mistake: they thought that by drawing Russia close to them, they would help pacify them. Trade would make Russia rich, and as Russia became richer it would become more peaceful.
Russia becoming rich was great. The problem was the wealth was expropriated by a group of corrupt colluding men.
Russia becoming church-mouse poor is going to be better.
I'd prefer a country moderately well off with a comfortable,.prosperous general population and gangster-driven wealth concentration.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
Saint Helena worked in the past
Sort of. The overall stick Napoleon on an island thang cost 100 000s of lives.
It was a government project.
- 100Ks of lives and an ocean of treasure later..... They stuck him on an island. - He takes the boat back to the mainland, More 100Ks of lives and an ocean of treasure later.... - "Perhaps an island that is slightly hard to leave?" - "That wasn't in the original specification."
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
There are some who would say the really cool bit about democracy is not the philosophical or ethical bits, but that we get to have a coup every 4-5 years. A coup without all the bloodshed and breaking of teacups. The former ruler goes away quietly, and writes some memoirs that no-one ever reads.
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
Well, the most pro-Russian areas have left the Ukraine - either they are now controlled by rebels in the far, far East, or they were in Crimea. Between those two, you're looking at 15-20% of the population.
And the repatriation of the Crimea also made a lot of Ukrainians who were on the fence about Russia vs the West really reconsider their views.
@rcs1000 I am not sure you can rely on this 4% figure you are quoting. The second biggest party in the 2019 Parliamentary election (the most recent one) was 'opposition platform - for life' which got 13.8% of the vote share. This is a pro Russian party. So is the 'Opposition Bloc', which got around 3%. There are large numbers of other parties, some of which are pro Russian. And this was an election which did not take place in the areas occupied by Russia (Ie Crimea, Donbass etc). From what I can see it seems that the pro Russian figure might be closer to 15-20%. Not insignificant, but undoubtedly undermined by the loss of Crimea.
You are correct, I was confusing the Presidential election, where the Opposition Platform and the Opposition Bloc both performed very poorly, with the Parliamentary election.
Between those two parties in the Ukrainian parliamentary election, they got 16%.
Pretty much all the other political parties "endorse" the Euromaiden revolution.
That being said... there are also a lot of Independents in the Ukrainian parliament, and who knows what their views are.
It would be of more practical value if Sweden put Russia's military leaders in an asylum.
Genuinely offering Putin asylum would give him a way out.
The Idi Amin solution.
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
There are some who would say the really cool bit about democracy is not the philosophical or ethical bits, but that we get to have a coup every 4-5 years. A coup without all the bloodshed and breaking of teacups. The former ruler goes away quietly, and writes some memoirs that no-one ever reads.
Erm.....Trump?
Well, that's the problem with democracy. It ends.....
The one thing about Ukraine that we may be overlooking is that it does have a part of the population that is Russian. We don't really know what they think about the current situation. Are they happy about starting talks to join the EU and being conscripted to fight the invading Russian Army? How representative is the government and the public face of Ukraine that we see in the western media?
Apologies to peddle Kremlin talking points, but it does feel like we don't know very much about this country and make a lot of unexplored assumptions about it.
Only about 4% of Ukrainians voted for Rusophile political parties in the last elections - almost entirely in the far far East.
ok sure - but as recently as 2014 the country had a pro Russian president who was elected. As I recall he was ousted in a coup, over his reluctance to progress EU accession talks. It is said that a large part of his support was in the south and east - presumably areas that are now defacto controlled by Russia. Does that mean that the forces that bought Yanukovich to power, and are presumably sceptical about the EU, no longer exist in the rest of Ukraine? Have they really dropped to 4% of the country? I would be surprised if that is really the case.
I think you have to look at what has happened since Zelensky was elected in 2019. For a start he is an ethnic Russian. Funnily enough during the campaign his opponent and predecessor used Zelensky's Russian background to claim he would be Moscow's man in Ukraine. Once in power he removed immunity for Members of Parliament and introduced laws to remove the power of the Oligarchs in Ukraine. He also sacked all 15 regional Oblast leaders and heads of the main law enforcement agencies. Once that was all done he reached out to the separatists and tried to get a peace deal which included recognising the result of elections run by the separatists in their regions.
Basically from what I can see he has bent over backwards to do whatever he can to bridge any divide between ethnic Russians and Ukrainians. I get the impression the people generally can see this and understand it which is why so many ethnic Russians are siding with Ukraine as their country against their cousins from the East.
Interesting. He's definetly earned his place in history; no doubt he will be studied for many years to come.
I am clear in my mind that Putin is a grave threat to Europe and that his regime needs to be overthrown. But as for Ukrainian politics, this is something I know nothing about.
Neither did I until last week. Since then I have been reading a lot about it, both ancient and modern. All of Zelensky's predecessors were pretty shitty people. Typical politicians able to push their own agendas in a country that was too used to either dictators or instability. He really does seem to stand out as one of those rare instances of an honest politician trying to do what is best for his people.
Of course he was only there for less than 3 years before this all blew up so who knows if he would have succumbed to the power trip as his political career continued.
In case people haven't seen it, in the first episode of Servant of the People, the tv show where Zelensky plays President, he gives a two minute speech about precisely what you say above. It's this speech that leads his fictional character to become president.
Comments
"A museum in Paris has removed its wax figure of Russian President Vladimir Putin after it was damaged by visitors in protest against the invasion of Ukraine."
Of course, being a waxwork it looks nothing like Putin and puts me more in mind of Bishop the android from Aliens.
I should work for BJ's office.
Bit harsh....
EDIT: Are you one of these people in favour of gangster driven wealth concentration?
Insofar as any outrage you might discern in a one liner, it would likely be based on the relentless atavism on here that routinely relates any actions of eg Germany, France and Italy to Nazism or Fascism or collaboration, and viewing anyone taking a slightly nuanced view as appeasers and enablers.
But hey, just banter, so chill again.
And the repatriation of the Crimea also made a lot of Ukrainians who were on the fence about Russia vs the West really reconsider their views.
Old school. And crucial.
5875 kHz from 8/10 UTC and on 15735 kHz from 2/4 UTC.
https://twitter.com/KevinCore/status/1498742509027086340
Great post.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/02/majority-of-ukrainian-hospitals-could-run-out-of-oxygen-today-as-omicron-rages-who/
Whatever happens next, tens of thousands of Ukrainians will have lost their homes and their jobs. They will have gone hungry. Many will be severely injured or die.
And for what?
So that Russia can extend its borders a little further westward, and suffer a constant low level insurgency?
https://twitter.com/EdwardTHardy/status/1498757469475983362
"I've only been on the ground for just over 12 hours but it seems to me that these people here are absolutely determined to fight," he added.
Mr Holloway said he ran into "Ukraine's top concert pianist" who was "fascinating" to talk to as he said so many people were volunteering for the military "they're only taking people with actual military experience - there just aren't enough guns".
It is unclear exactly why the MP has travelled to the country or what he intends to do while there, although he previously worked as an investigative journalist for ITN and ITV.
Don't try to be funny. It is clear from the post I was replying to that you either rejoice in the thought of other peoples' misery, or are too thick to realise that is what you are doing, or some amazingly attractive combination of the two.
I am guessing you are a middle class arsehole who has never left Europe, and don't realise what poverty looks like. You are certainly a dildo.
Whether Lukashenko, Shoygu, or someone else replaces him I don't know, but I think he's cooked his goose.
I just spoke with President Zelenskyy to discuss our continued support for Ukraine — including security assistance and humanitarian aid — as it defends itself against Russian aggression. We will hold Russia accountable, and our sanctions are already having a devastating impact.
https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1498738771562573826?cxt=HHwWhMC9oZu-y8wpAAAA
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/04/russia-omicron-surge/
https://twitter.com/buschebba/status/1498716022148407301
https://twitter.com/humeyra_pamuk/status/1498761483026673677
Does anybody have a warehouse full of Zunes?
RT News and Sputnik News apps also no longer available outside Russia https://twitter.com/iansherr/status/1498761119065952257/photo/1
He was visibly upset. As was I.
Why punish the already poor general Russian citizenry?
They don’t get to vote in free elections so their gov isn’t really their choice.
They cannot have proper opposition parties so again it’s not their choice.
If you suppress a populace then they get beaten down and have no agency to change anything or…..
The population listen to wankers like Trump who sell a great story and make undeliverable promises and non delivery is blamed on new world order, the Jooz, Hilary Clinton, Paedo pizza shops.
Finally when you have nothing to live for then life is cheap. When life is cheap and there are no options then people will join gangs, extreme parties and ultimately terrorist groups - try Somalia as an example.
The amount of money wasted on weapons - drop bundles of cash and import girls because when the average person finds themselves with a home, a car, a wife, prospects then funnily enough they don’t want to lose that to be shot in a swamp in Ukraine, blow themselves up in a souk or face any kind of unecessary death as weirdly life is generally good - life, a few beers, a wife/girlfriend, a bit of shopping for something nice on a Saturday, watching your sports team.
If people have nothing then they have nothing to lose.
Competitors from the two countries will fly a neutral banner and must make “specific commitment and adherence to the FIA’s principles of peace and political neutrality, until further notice”, the body said.
If orgs go down this route the banner should be designed by the invaded country, so prevent that Russian Olympic Committee bollocks where the disguise is not even paper thin.
I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis. Propose any action and you are gung ho armchair warrior trying to start WWIII. Acknowledge any limits to what can be done - then you are standing by, doing nothing.
Now I don't like Johnson. I have said many times I disapprove of his campaign at any opportunity style of politics. I am a Johnson cynic so unsurprisingly I have raised an eyebrow at each of his photo ops over the last ten days. No one will thus be surprised at my view that if he hadn't been grandstanding around Eastern Europe today this wouldn't have happened.
There is no need to have flags.
Especially in motorsport where there is a multi-national team behind any driver.
"Given the magnitude of the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Ukraine we cannot see how the participation of Russia or Belarus in the Beijing 2022 Paralympic Winter Games is compatible with the objectives of the Paralympic movement."
https://paralympics.org.uk/articles/british-paralympic-association-statement-beijing-2022
Suggest boundaries might need redrawing and a feckwit argues you support the White Australia Policy.
If you rude enough to people, You die.
God comes to say hi. Real Angry and Old Testament - like before he had the kid and mellowed.
Hiding under mountains doesn't work. You die.
No philosophy, no lies, no tricks will save you. The Bomb sees you and doesn't care.
By @rafaelbehr
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/01/russia-ukraine-war-politics-europe-britain?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
They should actually demand Haas have Russian flags all over the livery and little pictures of Vlad on the nose that keep getting broken whenever Mazepin gets near another car.
They could even demand a team name change to blend the Constituent factors into the name - Maz 1F aas.
Basically from what I can see he has bent over backwards to do whatever he can to bridge any divide between ethnic Russians and Ukrainians. I get the impression the people generally can see this and understand it which is why so many ethnic Russians are siding with Ukraine as their country against their cousins from the East.
I am clear in my mind that Putin is a grave threat to Europe and that his regime needs to be overthrown. But as for Ukrainian politics, this is something I know nothing about.
You have simply traduced me. I expect it from a weapons-grade wanker like you.
But, I loved the lofty disinterested way in which you opined on the pitfalls of others, "I like watching a certain kind of commentator in this crisis ...."
Let's have some more Friends of Malmsbury anecdotes, please.
You know the kind of stuff, "Putin rapes his closest advisors with plutonium rods. Had the intel from a retired friend of mine whose a retired nuclear technologist."
There should be an island where mad dictators can go somewhere and live out the rest of their lives without wrecking any more countries. It's not satisfying when they actually deserve a prison cell, but it might save some lives.
Otoh, it might cost more lives, if people can behave as badly as they want, knowing that a comfortable villa awaits them if they fail.
Of course he was only there for less than 3 years before this all blew up so who knows if he would have succumbed to the power trip as his political career continued.
*this is a genuine photo of Napoleon.
In fact, that might be a better punishment - the memory of his "greatness" would gnaw at him until he died.
This is a man who claims to have done this, while sober
- 100Ks of lives and an ocean of treasure later..... They stuck him on an island.
- He takes the boat back to the mainland, More 100Ks of lives and an ocean of treasure later....
- "Perhaps an island that is slightly hard to leave?"
- "That wasn't in the original specification."
Between those two parties in the Ukrainian parliamentary election, they got 16%.
Pretty much all the other political parties "endorse" the Euromaiden revolution.
That being said... there are also a lot of Independents in the Ukrainian parliament, and who knows what their views are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=696&v=GZ-3YwVQV0M
Starts at about 11:40, in case the link doesn't take you directly to the speech.