In Tallinn this morning we are waking up to a world that is changed beyond all our fears. The invasion of Ukraine is seen here as only the first step in an attempte to bring all of the democracies of Europe under either direct Russian control or under the control of Putin´s puppets. As deranged and dangerous as his statements about pushing NATO back beyond the Elbe have been, the truth is that Putin is serious and the implications of his challenge to all civilised values is another general European war, and one that has the capacity to go both global and nuclear very easily.
So, now everyone knows what the Balts have been warning of for years: Putin´s Russia is out of control and threatening to take the whole world into a new dark age.
I think, after two days of fighting, it is simply too soon to tell what the ultimate course of events will be. The fog of war is not to be cleared by social media posts or rumours, so I will discount whatever supposedly detailed information that people claim to have. The only thing we can be sure of is that the Ukrainians are making a fight of it. Equally, Russian forces seem poised to capture major parts of the country. Capturing is not, however, the same as holding. Even a defeated Ukraine will not be easily pacified and I would point out that Western leaders are warning us that this could be a very long process. So even if we take a few hours or days to negotiate such moves as the Russian disconnection from Swift and the various other parts of the sanctions package then let us be patient while the coalition of democracies works things out.
Public opinion around the world is outraged by this. However we will not get easy or quick solutions. Being angry because some figure does not do what you think is necessary is not going to help the process. We are walking on eggs, to try to avoid the slide to nuclear megadeath. Caution and ruthless cold logic dictates that we remain calm, resolved and united. It is critical thát the Putin regime is removed, but in its death throes it has the capacity to kill all of us,
Don´t beleive all you read/see/hear. and remember we need to be methodical and determined to come out of this alive and free.
Mr. Dickson, do you think Scottish nationalism, which would've separated Scotland from both the UK and EU, would also have been a 'triumph for Putin'?
I suspect that Putin would encourage Sindy too, as he did with Brexit. A major theme of his foreign policy is to foment internal division in Western countries. Hence his troll farms being anti-woke too.
It doesn't invalidate the legitimacy of the issue, whether Brexit or Sindy, or BLM, but we should be aware of Putin's manipulations, and decide issues on their own merits.
Putin also foments Wokeness, on the Woke side. Of course you fastidiously pretend otherwise
Heck, Putin probably has a Reasonable Centrist Dad department in one of his troll farms. Sowing as many divisions as possible is what he does.
He knows there will be no united or effective responsive to his invasion from the west and sadly he will be proved right. The fact we are talking about moving the Champions League final from St Petersburg as if this will strike a terrible blow to Russia indicates the paucity of the response.
There has been a united effective response. Everyone is united in wanting to make life miserable for the Russian elite for the next few years. This is the only sustainable solution albeit less quick and emotionally satisfying that firing a gun. Everyone is also united in not wanting a war with a nuclear superpower (except Ben Wallace).
So far the united response has been to make strong speeches but otherwise do very little of real substance because we can't agree what to do.
I don't think there would have been the stomach for military intervention on behalf of Ukraine so I don't think there is much else we could do to really damage Putin. He knows that and, sadly, I think he will be proved right.
All the west can realistically do now is try to come up with a united plan to deter Putin from going any further.
The only way to do that is to demonstrate by actions now that should any aggressive action be taken by Russia against a NATO state, Art 5 will be invoked and military action will follow.
That doesn't mean fine words and the promise of unspecified sanctions. It means, I fear, being willing to fight for all those Baltic and Eastern European countries which were once part of the Soviet Union. We must be prepared to do this and Putin must believe that we are willing to do this.
If not, we will see the violent break up of the Eastern half of the EU and the reimposition of an Iron Curtain in Europe.
Perhaps I am unduly fearful. But it is the logical consequence of both Putin's speech the other day and his statement about the collapse of the Soviet Union being the worst thing to have happened in his lifetime. Why wouldn't he try to reimpose it if he thought he could?
I am fairly pessimistic. The problem will remain that I doubt every NATO member would be prepared to act in the circumstances you describe. If Trump or one his acolytes is back in the WH by then I suspect Putin would gamble on NATO not following through. Unless Germany have eliminated their energy dependence on Russia I expect all we will get there is weasel words again
Zelensky has made an appeal for Europeans with military experience to go to Ukraine to join their defence.
My heart sinks further when I read things like this
I have been in tears at times the last few days and what is happening is just dreadful
I have no idea where this is going, but it has to be time to allow Cambo and our own gas developments as we transition to green self sufficiency over the next 20 years
Number of mainstream parties that currently agree with you on that one?
Zero.
Well they should take this as a wake up call then.
Though of course they won't.
Anybody who thinks that net zero was something the tories bolted on to their manifesto as an afterthought better think again.
Net zero is clearly an absolutely core commitment for the tories, arguably their most core commitment.
The pressure of events is building massively, and yet they are still resisting.
I fully support your use of words to try to convey ideas.
(And possibly pretty foolish. I can't prove it, but I suspect that tendrils of the government employ a lot of the lower-paid graduates.)
You don't start to repay until earning over £25k and continue repayments into your 50s now as that is the age of highest earning
The pay-level for the start of repayments has gone down, and the amount that will actually be paid has gone up.
Martin Lewis was very critical of the changes on the box last night.
£25k for the start of graduate repayments is still well above the median salary for a young non-graduate of £21,500
It turns out that this is not just valid for when they are young and starting out, but, shockingly, remains an imposition all the way into their thirties. And forties. And fifties. And now, the sixties.
Believe it or not.
(I'm assuming you were unaware as you just zoomed in on the earliest days of its imposition)
If you study creative arts for example at university and never earn £25,000 or more then you do not need to repay a single penny of your student loan.
If as a graduate you do earn over £25,000 then yes you will now keep repaying into your 50s, not your 60s, as that is the age of peak earnings
So - we now go from the majority of 22-29s not paying anything to the majority paying. And the peak age of earnings seems to be in the forties, where they still paid before this change.
Forty years after graduation is 62. And most of those in their early sixties will therefore still be paying (formerly, they would have stopped at age 52 and could accrue more funds towards their retirement)
Those who never earn over £25,000 will be significantly fewer than those who never earn over £27,295. It's a real-time cut of over 10% in gross income.
It does help richer graduates and the children of richer parents, and hurt poorer graduates and the children of poorer parents. That's incontrovertible. Defending it means defending that.
Most graduates will earn more than non graduates so it is right they pay for their degree if it gets them that higher earnings once they earn over £25,000 post graduation (which on those figures will be only past the age of 21 once they are in work and have graduated).
Retirement age is moving to 67 too, so even if 62 year olds are still repaying no problem if most of them are still working and earning a wage and not yet retired.
If some non Russell Group and non STEM graduates find their degree only ever earns them £25- £30k a year and they would be better off after student loan repayments doing an apprenticeship instead, no problem.
That saves them money and also this policy saves taxpayers money too
That graduates only pay once they have graduated is fairly unsurprising, as before they have graduated, they are not graduates. By the way, at what level "is it right that they pay"? Before this, it was over £27,000. Now it seems to be right that they pay 9% extra in (effective) tax beyond £25,000. Would £22,000 be more right? £20,000? £12,500?
Paying further and further into their lives, again, is very painful. Would you be in favour of increasing to to 67 and the retirement age? Or how about beyond?
"Some non-Russell Group and non-STEM graduates..." seriously? You are aware that approaching 80% of those in full time employment in their forties will be over this threshold now - you seem to be trying to imply that it's only a small proportion who will be caught.
This will affect almost everyone. Those on below-average incomes and those from families with below-average incomes (so hurting the aspirational - I always thought the Tories claimed to be pro-aspiration?) will be negatively affected. This COSTS them money. It also means they have less disposable income to afford, say, mortgage prices. Those with significantly above-average incomes and from richer families will be helped. This saves THEM money, as shown starkly by the distribution graph posted earlier.
It's regressive, anti-aspirational, and pro-richer people. All the handwaving you can do doesn't retract from that.
It does seem as though the Tories are intent on turning what was once an age effect (younger people do not vote Tory; older ones do) into a cohort effect (those born before a certain date will trend Tory; those over will not).
Things pretty bad now and Zelensky clearly knows it won’t be long before he’s removed .
One can totally understand his desperation given his latest comments . Whether early compromises re a neutral stance on NATO would have made any difference we’ll never know .
Nick Palmer would just have said that was 'poking' Russia into the invasion.
This is why his comment was so unutterably and totally wrong. I'm glad he's changed his tune.
No I’m merely wondering whether some sort of fudge on NATO could have been made . Whether this would have made any difference I can’t say .
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
The marginal tax rate for a graduate is basically 41%
12% NI, 20% income tax, 9% student loan.
Which is 1% higher than a 66 yr old earning between £50,271 and £150,000...
Indeed.
Add in 13.25% Employers NI too which is every bit as much a part of their tax in reality and its even higher ...
Is employers NI payable if people over 66 are employed out of interest ?
From memory, AFAIK no, but I might be wrong on that.
Yes, it is.
Excellent analysis above on the generational inequities of the tax system. But in addition to all that, lets not also forget the other side of the equation.
Many of those same people in their 60s, including the architects of the present swinging loan regime (i.e. Cameron/Osborne/Clegg), were basically paid to go to university through a support grant and came out pretty well free of debt without needing to work while they were there.
eg. Me, my Dad was a Deputy Head in a 2,000 pupil secondary school so not short of cash. I got a full maintenance grant for 4 years, took on occasional seasonal jobs but only when back home in the (long) holiday period or otherwise claimed unemployment benefit, ran a car at uni and came out with a bit of cash in the bank rather than £50k of debt. What's more, degrees weren't two a penny and so I'd actually got something of value in the employment market, walking into a graduate entry scheme job on leaving. That sort of thing was pretty common.
Reasons why i could never be a diplomat or politician no. 1325, from BBC
In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports.
Even if you are a brutal authoritarian I don't know how you can say something like that with a straight face. And why even bother? Even if you think Russia completely justified in its actions it has not been resolving matters through dialogue, and whispered surrunders after the shooting is not really the same thing.
Another example
And here's more now from Sergei Lavrov's news conference in Moscow.
He questions the stability of the Ukrainian state - and accuses Western nations of deliberately militarising the country.
Lavrov told reporters that Ukrainian people must now have the chance to "choose their own future".
I mean really, there's putting your country's position and then there's just taking the piss. Yes, the Ukrainian state is somewhat unstable at the moment, why is that I wonder?
Blatant lies, as has been noted many times, are a characteristic of authoritarian regimes. Lying with impunity demonstrates their power.
As always, Blair was there first.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth"
The marginal tax rate for a graduate is basically 41%
12% NI, 20% income tax, 9% student loan.
Which is 1% higher than a 66 yr old earning between £50,271 and £150,000...
Indeed.
Add in 13.25% Employers NI too which is every bit as much a part of their tax in reality and its even higher ...
Is employers NI payable if people over 66 are employed out of interest ?
From memory, AFAIK no, but I might be wrong on that.
Yes, it is.
Excellent analysis above on the generational inequities of the tax system. But in addition to all that, lets not also forget the other side of the equation.
Many of those same people in their 60s, including the architects of the present swinging loan regime (i.e. Cameron/Osborne/Clegg), were basically paid to go to university through a support grant and came out pretty well free of debt without needing to work while they were there.
eg. Me, my Dad was a Deputy Head in a 2,000 pupil secondary school so not short of cash. I got a full maintenance grant for 4 years, took on occasional seasonal jobs but only when back home in the (long) holiday period or otherwise claimed unemployment benefit, ran a car at uni and came out with a bit of cash in the bank rather than £50k of debt. What's more, degrees weren't two a penny and so I'd actually got something of value in the employment market, walking into a graduate entry scheme job on leaving. That sort of thing was pretty common.
Me too. But instead of voting Tory to pull up the ladder I am ****ing outraged by the hypocrisy of Messrs Cameron & Co, and I vote for parties with the opposite policy.
Things pretty bad now and Zelensky clearly knows it won’t be long before he’s removed .
One can totally understand his desperation given his latest comments . Whether early compromises re a neutral stance on NATO would have made any difference we’ll never know .
Nick Palmer would just have said that was 'poking' Russia into the invasion.
This is why his comment was so unutterably and totally wrong. I'm glad he's changed his tune.
No I’m merely wondering whether some sort of fudge on NATO could have been made . Whether this would have made any difference I can’t say .
It would just have been another excuse for Putin, which useful idiots would have jumped on. If it had to have happened, best for it to have happened fifteen years ago.
Putin wanted this invasion. We won't really know what would have stopped him in the last six months until he and his friends end up in the Hague.
I think the Green energy agenda died when the first Russian tank went over the border. Strategic thinking at the top must surely kick in after decades of wishful thinking. The increase in energy bills will also change the political mood. I know someone is bound to respond with "now we need to increase the adoption of renewables". I think that is fantasy land unless some major technical break-through occurs. A big nuclear programme might allow decarbonisation to continue but it will take time. I think we might even see fracking pilots restarted and we certainly should.
You're joking.
There is a very well funded, very influential, lobby on the side of green energy which has won the battle.
There is no rolling back on this.
There is support for high gas prices with mitigation for the poorest to help drive the transition to green. Tory MP Chris Skidmore tweeted recently the solution to high gas prices is not more gas. He is part of a pro net zero Tory parliamentary group.
Oh, and I completely agree with you too. But it will not happen.
In Tallinn this morning we are waking up to a world that is changed beyond all our fears. The invasion of Ukraine is seen here as only the first step in an attempte to bring all of the democracies of Europe under either direct Russian control or under the control of Putin´s puppets. As deranged and dangerous as his statements about pushing NATO back beyond the Elbe have been, the truth is that Putin is serious and the implications of his challenge to all civilised values is another general European war, and one that has the capacity to go both global and nuclear very easily.
So, now everyone knows what the Balts have been warning of for years: Putin´s Russia is out of control and threatening to take the whole world into a new dark age.
I think, after two days of fighting, it is simply too soon to tell what the ultimate course of events will be. The fog of war is not to be cleared by social media posts or rumours, so I will discount whatever supposedly detailed information that people claim to have. The only thing we can be sure of is that the Ukrainians are making a fight of it. Equally, Russian forces seem poised to capture major parts of the country. Capturing is not, however, the same as holding. Even a defeated Ukraine will not be easily pacified and I would point out that Western leaders are warning us that this could be a very long process. So even if we take a few hours or days to negotiate such moves as the Russian disconnection from Swift and the various other parts of the sanctions package then let us be patient while the coalition of democracies works things out.
Public opinion around the world is outraged by this. However we will not get easy or quick solutions. Being angry because some figure does not do what you think is necessary is not going to help the process. We are walking on eggs, to try to avoid the slide to nuclear megadeath. Caution and ruthless cold logic dictates that we remain calm, resolved and united. It is critical thát the Putin regime is removed, but in its death throes it has the capacity to kill all of us,
Don´t beleive all you read/see/hear. and remember we need to be methodical and determined to come out of this alive and free.
My wife and I feel for you and can only say how much we loved Tallinn when we visited a few years ago in what was a different world then and we must strengthen our resolve to protect all NATO countries from the evil of Putin and his acoylates
I genuinely don’t understand this mad Republican admiration for Putin and his deeds
Yes I think Putin is right on Wokeness, I also think Mussolini handled the Mafia well and Hitler was great at flag design. I can still see that they are all malign tyrants who generally do - or did - bad stuff.
Farage is the same. And Salmond. Some weird fanboi worship of brutal power. Is that it? Is that all it is?
Putin pretends to be a Christian, is fervently nationalistic and hates gays. That's enough.
Yes, as with Trump, many people don't really follow the details - they decide on superficial evidence if someone is their sort of guy and then dismiss criticism as biased or made-up. It's like left-wingers who thought Pol Pot was a good guy until the Vietnamese - hardly right-wingers themselves - decided they'd had enough of him. And right-wingers who deplored Vietnam's intervention because they were those commies who'd caused so much trouble for the US. See Alastair's piece for more on this sort of thinking.
Most people are more or less rational, and there does come a point where they do say hell, I can't support THIS. Most of the left is now vehemently anti-Putin - all the MPs who signed the equivocal Stop the War statement have now withdrawn their support, and McDonnell said last night that he's helping organise a demo outside the Russian Embassy tomorrow. Conversely, I know Republicans who remain viscerally anti-Democrat but simply will not tolerate the idea of voting for Trump.
The extreme left in the Labour party who have supported STW and signed up to all their letters and petitions have for years agitated on the basis that almost everything aggressive about Russia is the fault of the USA, NATO and the UK.
Such as this on 22 Feb - three days ago
This dispute could and should be resolved peacefully, and that remains the only basis for a lasting settlement, rather than the imposition of military solutions. That it has not been resolved is not, however, the responsibility of the Russian or Ukrainian governments alone.
The conflict is the product of thirty years of failed policies, including the expansion of NATO and US hegemony at the expense of other countries as well as major wars of aggression by the USA, Britain and other NATO powers which have undermined international law and the United Nations.
The tragedy is that there are elements here that definitely have some basis, but they can't see the present imperative. The West definitely made errors that were not just defensive but also offensive, but Putin has been off on a course after that which was possibly unrecoverable for as much as 15 years now. Farage also doesn't know what he's talking about in mentioning 2014.
No, in the light of this week's events it is very clear that the likes of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland were justified in seeking the benefit of collective security within NATO membership, and NATO was right to extend their security guarantee accordingly, because had they not those states would clearly be next on Putin's list. Just as they were on Stalin's list when they were last invaded by Russia in 1939/40. It is not about Western "hegemony", it is about giving democratic states the right to peacefully exist through agreements that guarantee their security against a hostile expansionist dictatorship.
There was nothing wrong with giving those states memebership, I would say. The issues were the verbal guarantees not to extend to Russia's borders, and from a legal point of view in terms of Putin's faith in the Western heralding of the rules-based order after Iraq, I would say.
He was clearly predisposed to return to an autocratic direction as a KGB man, as I said, but there's no question that the west also made clear mistakes there , particularly between about 2001 and 2004.
Putin's actions hardly made those states feel secure, did they? From Georgia onwards he has shown Russia to be an unfriendly neighbour.
If he doesn't want neighbouring countries joining a bigger defence club, he should not threaten neighbouring countries.
I'd agree, but there also seem to have been verbal assurances that Ukraine wouldn't be considered for membership. A "neutral state" option might have worked our better but this was just one of things sending Putin off on his crazy way.
There were also "verbal assurances" given when Ukraine passed the Soviet nuclear weapons in its possession back to Russia, so that is the starting context. At that point, Ukraise was content to both give up nuclear weapons and to avoid NATO membership.
The fact is that Ukraine only later sought NATO membership at a when it became clear that it could not otherwise guarantee its own security in the face of expansionist Russian policies and Putin's hostility after clear majority of its people democratically sought to turn away from a path of Ukraine becoming a client state of Russia aka Belarus. And the fact of seeking that membership, even though it was refused, is still now being used as a ridiculous pretext for Russian invasion.
It's also pretty clear that since at least the turn of the century Putin has been pursuing policies aimed at bringing the former Soviet republics back under the wing of Russia wherever he can, if necessary by threats and now invasion. Putin did not embark on "his crazy path" because of Ukraine's actions, rather those actions have just exposed the path he had long been set on.
I'd agree that Ukraine was very justified in seeking membership for itself and on its own terms, particularly from about 2006-08 onwards, but that doesn't excuse longer-term western errors in the management of the policy. As mentioned below I think from the diplomatic or MI6 source quoted on Radio 4 today, there's no evidence that Putin was always on an equally expansionist course. He's a very different man today from he who he was in 2001, and probably has been for a decade and a half.
The path dates back much further than that and was manifest even during the time of the Chechen wars. That's why I said "at least the turn of the century".
I am not arguing that everything about Western policy from 1990 onwards was fine. But where I am taking issue with you is that Putin's path from then to now owes much if anything to the course of Western policy over that period.
We'll have to agree to differ there, because I thing two things changed him, primarily - internal chechen influence, and external relationships with the west in the early 2000s.
He's a dangerous lunatic now, and we have to hope someone internally takes him out pronto.
In Tallinn this morning we are waking up to a world that is changed beyond all our fears. The invasion of Ukraine is seen here as only the first step in an attempte to bring all of the democracies of Europe under either direct Russian control or under the control of Putin´s puppets. As deranged and dangerous as his statements about pushing NATO back beyond the Elbe have been, the truth is that Putin is serious and the implications of his challenge to all civilised values is another general European war, and one that has the capacity to go both global and nuclear very easily.
So, now everyone knows what the Balts have been warning of for years: Putin´s Russia is out of control and threatening to take the whole world into a new dark age.
I think, after two days of fighting, it is simply too soon to tell what the ultimate course of events will be. The fog of war is not to be cleared by social media posts or rumours, so I will discount whatever supposedly detailed information that people claim to have. The only thing we can be sure of is that the Ukrainians are making a fight of it. Equally, Russian forces seem poised to capture major parts of the country. Capturing is not, however, the same as holding. Even a defeated Ukraine will not be easily pacified and I would point out that Western leaders are warning us that this could be a very long process. So even if we take a few hours or days to negotiate such moves as the Russian disconnection from Swift and the various other parts of the sanctions package then let us be patient while the coalition of democracies works things out.
Public opinion around the world is outraged by this. However we will not get easy or quick solutions. Being angry because some figure does not do what you think is necessary is not going to help the process. We are walking on eggs, to try to avoid the slide to nuclear megadeath. Caution and ruthless cold logic dictates that we remain calm, resolved and united. It is critical thát the Putin regime is removed, but in its death throes it has the capacity to kill all of us,
Don´t beleive all you read/see/hear. and remember we need to be methodical and determined to come out of this alive and free.
I don't think Putin has any intention of "holding" Ukraine. The goal will be regime change and find another Lukashenko who will do massive repression of dissent on Russia's behalf.
It's quite interesting how Labour has pretty much stabilised around 39% now despite everything even including opinium in the polling averages. At the same time an average ~5% Labour lead will help secure Johnson in place (combined with the Tories doing OK relative to expectations in the local elections in Scotland, London and the Midlands even if they continue to heavily bleed votes in the north such as in yesterday's Ferryhill by election).
There have been 5(!) polls since that one. Eg:
England:
Lab 46% Con 39% LD 9% Grn 4% Ref 2%
Jockistan:
SNP 41% SLab 23% SCon 16% SLD 15% Ref 4% Grn 1%
Western conquest:
WLab 39% WCon 30% PC 20% WLD 8% Grn 3% Ref 2%
(Political Polling and the Russia-Ukraine Crisis by Survation; 17-21 February; 2,050)
Mr. Dickson, do you think Scottish nationalism, which would've separated Scotland from both the UK and EU, would also have been a 'triumph for Putin'?
I suspect that Putin would encourage Sindy too, as he did with Brexit. A major theme of his foreign policy is to foment internal division in Western countries. Hence his troll farms being anti-woke too.
It doesn't invalidate the legitimacy of the issue, whether Brexit or Sindy, or BLM, but we should be aware of Putin's manipulations, and decide issues on their own merits.
Putin also foments Wokeness, on the Woke side. Of course you fastidiously pretend otherwise
Heck, Putin probably has a Reasonable Centrist Dad department in one of his troll farms. Sowing as many divisions as possible is what he does.
He knows there will be no united or effective responsive to his invasion from the west and sadly he will be proved right. The fact we are talking about moving the Champions League final from St Petersburg as if this will strike a terrible blow to Russia indicates the paucity of the response.
There has been a united effective response. Everyone is united in wanting to make life miserable for the Russian elite for the next few years. This is the only sustainable solution albeit less quick and emotionally satisfying that firing a gun. Everyone is also united in not wanting a war with a nuclear superpower (except Ben Wallace).
So far the united response has been to make strong speeches but otherwise do very little of real substance because we can't agree what to do.
I don't think there would have been the stomach for military intervention on behalf of Ukraine so I don't think there is much else we could do to really damage Putin. He knows that and, sadly, I think he will be proved right.
All the west can realistically do now is try to come up with a united plan to deter Putin from going any further.
The only way to do that is to demonstrate by actions now that should any aggressive action be taken by Russia against a NATO state, Art 5 will be invoked and military action will follow.
That doesn't mean fine words and the promise of unspecified sanctions. It means, I fear, being willing to fight for all those Baltic and Eastern European countries which were once part of the Soviet Union. We must be prepared to do this and Putin must believe that we are willing to do this.
If not, we will see the violent break up of the Eastern half of the EU and the reimposition of an Iron Curtain in Europe.
Perhaps I am unduly fearful. But it is the logical consequence of both Putin's speech the other day and his statement about the collapse of the Soviet Union being the worst thing to have happened in his lifetime. Why wouldn't he try to reimpose it if he thought he could?
I am fairly pessimistic. The problem will remain that I doubt every NATO member would be prepared to act in the circumstances you describe. If Trump or one his acolytes is back in the WH by then I suspect Putin would gamble on NATO not following through. Unless Germany have eliminated their energy dependence on Russia I expect all we will get there is weasel words again
I am concerned about Putins possible design on the baltics. I can see a situation where he plays brinkmanship, but that time has not yet come and I hope it will not.
If however I were Georgia for instance I would be very concerned.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
Reasons why i could never be a diplomat or politician no. 1325, from BBC
In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports.
Even if you are a brutal authoritarian I don't know how you can say something like that with a straight face. And why even bother? Even if you think Russia completely justified in its actions it has not been resolving matters through dialogue, and whispered surrunders after the shooting is not really the same thing.
Another example
And here's more now from Sergei Lavrov's news conference in Moscow.
He questions the stability of the Ukrainian state - and accuses Western nations of deliberately militarising the country.
Lavrov told reporters that Ukrainian people must now have the chance to "choose their own future".
I mean really, there's putting your country's position and then there's just taking the piss. Yes, the Ukrainian state is somewhat unstable at the moment, why is that I wonder?
Blatant lies, as has been noted many times, are a characteristic of authoritarian regimes. Lying with impunity demonstrates their power.
As always, Blair was there first.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth"
My favourite is the old Soviet joke:
“The future is certain. It’s the past that keeps changing”.
In Tallinn this morning we are waking up to a world that is changed beyond all our fears. The invasion of Ukraine is seen here as only the first step in an attempte to bring all of the democracies of Europe under either direct Russian control or under the control of Putin´s puppets. As deranged and dangerous as his statements about pushing NATO back beyond the Elbe have been, the truth is that Putin is serious and the implications of his challenge to all civilised values is another general European war, and one that has the capacity to go both global and nuclear very easily.
So, now everyone knows what the Balts have been warning of for years: Putin´s Russia is out of control and threatening to take the whole world into a new dark age.
I think, after two days of fighting, it is simply too soon to tell what the ultimate course of events will be. The fog of war is not to be cleared by social media posts or rumours, so I will discount whatever supposedly detailed information that people claim to have. The only thing we can be sure of is that the Ukrainians are making a fight of it. Equally, Russian forces seem poised to capture major parts of the country. Capturing is not, however, the same as holding. Even a defeated Ukraine will not be easily pacified and I would point out that Western leaders are warning us that this could be a very long process. So even if we take a few hours or days to negotiate such moves as the Russian disconnection from Swift and the various other parts of the sanctions package then let us be patient while the coalition of democracies works things out.
Public opinion around the world is outraged by this. However we will not get easy or quick solutions. Being angry because some figure does not do what you think is necessary is not going to help the process. We are walking on eggs, to try to avoid the slide to nuclear megadeath. Caution and ruthless cold logic dictates that we remain calm, resolved and united. It is critical thát the Putin regime is removed, but in its death throes it has the capacity to kill all of us,
Don´t beleive all you read/see/hear. and remember we need to be methodical and determined to come out of this alive and free.
I don't think Putin has any intention of "holding" Ukraine. The goal will be regime change and find another Lukashenko who will do massive repression of dissent on Russia's behalf.
Without Russian occupation, if they withdraw then a Lukashenko type will struggle to hold on to power in Ukraine.
The population is very well armed now to defend themselves.
Reasons why i could never be a diplomat or politician no. 1325, from BBC
In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports.
Even if you are a brutal authoritarian I don't know how you can say something like that with a straight face. And why even bother? Even if you think Russia completely justified in its actions it has not been resolving matters through dialogue, and whispered surrunders after the shooting is not really the same thing.
Another example
And here's more now from Sergei Lavrov's news conference in Moscow.
He questions the stability of the Ukrainian state - and accuses Western nations of deliberately militarising the country.
Lavrov told reporters that Ukrainian people must now have the chance to "choose their own future".
I mean really, there's putting your country's position and then there's just taking the piss. Yes, the Ukrainian state is somewhat unstable at the moment, why is that I wonder?
Blatant lies, as has been noted many times, are a characteristic of authoritarian regimes. Lying with impunity demonstrates their power.
As always, Blair was there first.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth"
Calling Orwell Blair is a minor irritant but still an irritant. And he wasn't first anyway, the principle was stated by Goebbels. Nor the last, dead cats are the same idea dressed up in Johnson's whimsical charm.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
They have bought the gas, using money, to heat and light their houses. Souls form no part of the transaction.
I think the Green energy agenda died when the first Russian tank went over the border. Strategic thinking at the top must surely kick in after decades of wishful thinking. The increase in energy bills will also change the political mood. I know someone is bound to respond with "now we need to increase the adoption of renewables". I think that is fantasy land unless some major technical break-through occurs. A big nuclear programme might allow decarbonisation to continue but it will take time. I think we might even see fracking pilots restarted and we certainly should.
Similar things were said about West reliance on China given the chaos over COVID, and little to nothing has changed.
It is perfectly possible to remove usage of oil and gas from the economy. Just as we have removed coal.
The advantage to doing this is that the alternatives remove* the river of money that goes to bad people**. Plus their short term leverage over us.
Imagine Putin without the oil and gas money. Imagine Iran without the oil money. Imagine Saudi without the oil money.
*Someone will say rare earths, Which aren't rare and aren't earths. **Apart from the Norwegians
It is possible with time - lots of time. What is suicidally idiotic is to remove it before we have the alternatives - which is what is happening at the moment.
And all those claims about not doing enough to invest in renewables is bunkum. We have increased our yearly wind generation from 5,000 GWh to 70,000 GWh in just 12 years and we are literally building wind turbines as fast as we can. The hold up, where it exists, is not through regulatory or government hindrance but through physical limits on how fast we can build and install the things. Even so we now have the largest offshore wind capacity in the world.
And once you have completely decarbonised energy, you will still need the 40% of every barrel of oil that doesn't get burnt for all the other stuff it is used for - important stuff like lubricants, plastics and medicines. So if you don't have a home grown hydrocarbon industry then you will still have to have the headache of importing from all those other nasty countries.
And of course you won't be able to take an asprin for it because that is made from hydrocarbons.
Why wasn't more done to defend Ukraine after Crimea in 2014?
Russian oil, handy dirrty Russian money. Trump. A disbelief that Putin would go the whole 9 yards.
Western leaders over the last 15 or so years can look at hemselves in the mirror and resign themselves that the hey could have averted this by some means or another
Obama was in power in 2014!
And? I am blaming Western Leaders for the last fifteen years. Obama,, one could argue doing nothing in 2014, facitated the Putin backed Trump victory. Keep up!
Agreed.
Though it's worth remembering that Putin's propaganda was far more effective back in 2014. Quite a few were arguing on his behalf that Crimea really was Russian anyway, and that it's being part of Ukraine was an anomaly. And some even accepted the tale of a popular uprising aided by the Russians rather than an armed land grab.
What's happening now is the destruction of a democracy and unprovoked military occupation of an independent state. That's obvious even to Russia's propagandised citizens.
Sir Alex Younger (ex head of MI6) on R4 this am had an interesting take on Putin, that he had in fact changed over the years and current events are not the culmination of some decades-long strategy but the outcome of Putin’s current mindset. I guess 2014 could be seen as the first symptom of the ‘new’ Putin. He also seemed to think VVP had misjudged this situation and may come a cropper. Hope springs eternal..
I woud personally see 2008, and the South Ossetia business as the first conclusive sign of the "new" Putin. Disillusioned with the West, quietly seething about Iraq and his concerns about NATO being sidelined, and coming under pressure from his old Chechen friends to revert to authoritarian leadership. It was also exactly around 2008 that press freedom in Russia took a sudden dive, and a few months later the journalist Anna Politovskaya was murdered, probably by his henchmen from the Chechnya conflict again. The pattern seems to have been increasingly set after that.
It was also in 2008 that year that he released "learn Judo with Vladimir Putin." The cult of personality was underway.
The current situation has been an obvious scenario for years. When I said on here that we needed to push back, after Crimea, after Donbass, after MH17, after the Syrian chemical weapons debacle, after Salisbury - people said I just wanted to start WWIII.
Well, we didn't do enough then, and we're deeper into the abyss than ever.
They did not have answers, only apologies foe evil.
They were too busy filling their pockets with Russian lucre.
While Wee 'Eck was earning an honest rouble working for a UK based production company.
He was selling an independent product to an ofcom regulated business, since you are such a smart arse can you justify any of teh millions pocketed by Tories and what services were rendered for it. Thick tw*t.
It doesn't seem that Putin got value for money from the Conservatives.
Apart from Brexit, almost breaking up the UK (which might yet happen) and decimating the armed forces, what value did Putin get from the Conservatives?
I think the Green energy agenda died when the first Russian tank went over the border. Strategic thinking at the top must surely kick in after decades of wishful thinking. The increase in energy bills will also change the political mood. I know someone is bound to respond with "now we need to increase the adoption of renewables". I think that is fantasy land unless some major technical break-through occurs. A big nuclear programme might allow decarbonisation to continue but it will take time. I think we might even see fracking pilots restarted and we certainly should.
Whoever gets in next has the advantage that we already have an excellent Green energy agenda in place and being implemented.
Carbon intensity of UK electricity is already 2/3 less than it was in 2015.
The strategy is in place to make the UK an exporter of energy with 15-20 years.
God knows why the Tories have not been shouting this stuff from the housetops for these last years.
In Tallinn this morning we are waking up to a world that is changed beyond all our fears. The invasion of Ukraine is seen here as only the first step in an attempte to bring all of the democracies of Europe under either direct Russian control or under the control of Putin´s puppets. As deranged and dangerous as his statements about pushing NATO back beyond the Elbe have been, the truth is that Putin is serious and the implications of his challenge to all civilised values is another general European war, and one that has the capacity to go both global and nuclear very easily.
So, now everyone knows what the Balts have been warning of for years: Putin´s Russia is out of control and threatening to take the whole world into a new dark age.
I think, after two days of fighting, it is simply too soon to tell what the ultimate course of events will be. The fog of war is not to be cleared by social media posts or rumours, so I will discount whatever supposedly detailed information that people claim to have. The only thing we can be sure of is that the Ukrainians are making a fight of it. Equally, Russian forces seem poised to capture major parts of the country. Capturing is not, however, the same as holding. Even a defeated Ukraine will not be easily pacified and I would point out that Western leaders are warning us that this could be a very long process. So even if we take a few hours or days to negotiate such moves as the Russian disconnection from Swift and the various other parts of the sanctions package then let us be patient while the coalition of democracies works things out.
Public opinion around the world is outraged by this. However we will not get easy or quick solutions. Being angry because some figure does not do what you think is necessary is not going to help the process. We are walking on eggs, to try to avoid the slide to nuclear megadeath. Caution and ruthless cold logic dictates that we remain calm, resolved and united. It is critical thát the Putin regime is removed, but in its death throes it has the capacity to kill all of us,
Don´t beleive all you read/see/hear. and remember we need to be methodical and determined to come out of this alive and free.
I don't think Putin has any intention of "holding" Ukraine. The goal will be regime change and find another Lukashenko who will do massive repression of dissent on Russia's behalf.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
They have bought the gas, using money, to heat and light their houses. Souls form no part of the transaction.
They were more scared of earthquakes than of Putin.
Reasons why i could never be a diplomat or politician no. 1325, from BBC
In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports.
Even if you are a brutal authoritarian I don't know how you can say something like that with a straight face. And why even bother? Even if you think Russia completely justified in its actions it has not been resolving matters through dialogue, and whispered surrunders after the shooting is not really the same thing.
Another example
And here's more now from Sergei Lavrov's news conference in Moscow.
He questions the stability of the Ukrainian state - and accuses Western nations of deliberately militarising the country.
Lavrov told reporters that Ukrainian people must now have the chance to "choose their own future".
I mean really, there's putting your country's position and then there's just taking the piss. Yes, the Ukrainian state is somewhat unstable at the moment, why is that I wonder?
Blatant lies, as has been noted many times, are a characteristic of authoritarian regimes. Lying with impunity demonstrates their power.
As always, Blair was there first.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth"
My favourite is the old Soviet joke:
“The future is certain. It’s the past that keeps changing”.
The Soviet Union is the most advanced country in the world. Things were already better yesterday than they're going to be tomorrow.
Two friends meet. One says, 'what do you think our future will be like in four years?' His friend replies, 'how should I know, we don't even know what our past will be like in three or four years.'
What's the difference between a Soviet optimist and a Soviet pessimist? A pessimist says 'things are so bad they can't possibly get worse,' while the optimist says, 'they can, and they really will.'
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
They have bought the gas, using money, to heat and light their houses. Souls form no part of the transaction.
Then why are they blocking sanctions? 🤔
The money has been spent in the past for gas in the past, there is nothing wrong with that. But once you are changing your geopolitical actions, letting down allies and refusing to stand up to aggressors there's more than just money involved.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
I once read that, as the Red Army advanced to Berlin, up to two million German women were raped by Russian soldiers.
The writer Vasily Grossman details the depressing familiarity of watching the unbuckling of belts and screaming of girls as columns of German refugees were overhauled by advancing soldiers.
Where's the Russian guilt? where's the Russia guilt over the immense suffering caused by oppressed people in the satellite states during the Warsaw pact years?
Given the opportunity Russians are just as cruel as anybody.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
Why "even" Sir Keir Starmer? Given Starmer's forthright admirable stance on this crisis from day one, that comment should not have surprised in the slightest.
If you're Zelensky, what do you do now? Stay in Kyiv? Flee to Lviv? Flee elsewhere?
Saving your own life would indicate at least the second, if not the third. I wonder if he stayed in Kyiv, would the Russians be prepared to shoot a Head of State dead? And if they don't, is it straight off to the Gulag for him?
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Also, the idea that if only Germany hadn't allowed Nordstream 2 to be built Putin would have dropped his invasion plans seems a bit far-fetched.
In fact, imagining the counter factual where there was no attempt to engage Russia, probably the planned invasion would be happening just the same and we'd be hearing loads of people saying "this is all the fault of the Germans for refusing to engage with Russia so now they've got nothing to lose"
Mr. Dickson, do you think Scottish nationalism, which would've separated Scotland from both the UK and EU, would also have been a 'triumph for Putin'?
I suspect that Putin would encourage Sindy too, as he did with Brexit. A major theme of his foreign policy is to foment internal division in Western countries. Hence his troll farms being anti-woke too.
It doesn't invalidate the legitimacy of the issue, whether Brexit or Sindy, or BLM, but we should be aware of Putin's manipulations, and decide issues on their own merits.
Putin also foments Wokeness, on the Woke side. Of course you fastidiously pretend otherwise
Heck, Putin probably has a Reasonable Centrist Dad department in one of his troll farms. Sowing as many divisions as possible is what he does.
He knows there will be no united or effective responsive to his invasion from the west and sadly he will be proved right. The fact we are talking about moving the Champions League final from St Petersburg as if this will strike a terrible blow to Russia indicates the paucity of the response.
There has been a united effective response. Everyone is united in wanting to make life miserable for the Russian elite for the next few years. This is the only sustainable solution albeit less quick and emotionally satisfying that firing a gun. Everyone is also united in not wanting a war with a nuclear superpower (except Ben Wallace).
So far the united response has been to make strong speeches but otherwise do very little of real substance because we can't agree what to do.
I don't think there would have been the stomach for military intervention on behalf of Ukraine so I don't think there is much else we could do to really damage Putin. He knows that and, sadly, I think he will be proved right.
All the west can realistically do now is try to come up with a united plan to deter Putin from going any further.
The only way to do that is to demonstrate by actions now that should any aggressive action be taken by Russia against a NATO state, Art 5 will be invoked and military action will follow.
That doesn't mean fine words and the promise of unspecified sanctions. It means, I fear, being willing to fight for all those Baltic and Eastern European countries which were once part of the Soviet Union. We must be prepared to do this and Putin must believe that we are willing to do this.
If not, we will see the violent break up of the Eastern half of the EU and the reimposition of an Iron Curtain in Europe.
Perhaps I am unduly fearful. But it is the logical consequence of both Putin's speech the other day and his statement about the collapse of the Soviet Union being the worst thing to have happened in his lifetime. Why wouldn't he try to reimpose it if he thought he could?
I am fairly pessimistic. The problem will remain that I doubt every NATO member would be prepared to act in the circumstances you describe. If Trump or one his acolytes is back in the WH by then I suspect Putin would gamble on NATO not following through. Unless Germany have eliminated their energy dependence on Russia I expect all we will get there is weasel words again
I am concerned about Putins possible design on the baltics. I can see a situation where he plays brinkmanship, but that time has not yet come and I hope it will not.
If however I were Georgia for instance I would be very concerned.
Perhaps we could do a swap - He leaves the Baltics alone (NATO), but gets Sweden instead (non-NATO)?
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
If it gets to the point where your financial reliance or commitments prevent you from doing what is morally right - either as a country or an individual then in my view you have indeed sold your soul.
BBC piece asking why is it so hard to fix the Met's toxic culture. I'd have thought the answer is simple, as with any organisation and institution with cultural problems - that the organisation doesn't want to change, and those who might force it to don't want to, even if they say they do (actions speaking louder than words)
Culture can be hard to change, but not as much as people suggest - where there is a will culture changes rapidly and decisively.
The most important thing is to realise there is a problem and then want to change it.
I don't believe the Met leadership really believe the first and so have no real will to do the second.
Until this changes, nothing much will really improve for the better.
There are lots of organisations that say all the right things but when faced with the reality of what that entails do nothing or the bare minimum, as I know professionally only too well.
Reasons why i could never be a diplomat or politician no. 1325, from BBC
In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports.
Even if you are a brutal authoritarian I don't know how you can say something like that with a straight face. And why even bother? Even if you think Russia completely justified in its actions it has not been resolving matters through dialogue, and whispered surrunders after the shooting is not really the same thing.
Another example
And here's more now from Sergei Lavrov's news conference in Moscow.
He questions the stability of the Ukrainian state - and accuses Western nations of deliberately militarising the country.
Lavrov told reporters that Ukrainian people must now have the chance to "choose their own future".
I mean really, there's putting your country's position and then there's just taking the piss. Yes, the Ukrainian state is somewhat unstable at the moment, why is that I wonder?
Blatant lies, as has been noted many times, are a characteristic of authoritarian regimes. Lying with impunity demonstrates their power.
As always, Blair was there first.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth"
My favourite is the old Soviet joke:
“The future is certain. It’s the past that keeps changing”.
The Soviet Union is the most advanced country in the world. Things were already better yesterday than they're going to be tomorrow.
Two friends meet. One says, 'what do you think our future will be like in four years?' His friend replies, 'how should I know, we don't even know what our past will be like in three or four years.'
What's the difference between a Soviet optimist and a Soviet pessimist? A pessimist says 'things are so bad they can't possibly get worse,' while the optimist says, 'they can, and they really will.'
An old couple live in an apartment in Moscow and she sends him down to buy some meat for supper. After queueing for the obligatory three hours he gets to the counter and the woman says 'No more meat, meat finished'.
He cracks and starts raving 'I fought in the Revolution, I fought for Lenin in the First World War and for Stalin in the Second World War and we are still in this shit?' One of the leather-jacketed brigade takes him on one side and says 'Look old man you know you can't talk like this. Just think, a few years ago you would have been shot for saying these things.'
The old man trudges home. His wife seeing him empty-handed says 'Run out of meat again have they?' He says: 'It's worse than that, they've run out of bullets.'
Ultimately, Putin will lose. He’s trying to destroy an idea “Ukraine” in the name of an idea that failed, It may take a while, but history and time are against him. In the meantime we must do all we can to raise the cost to Russia of his folly. While the UK and US have stopped clearing of their currencies (you can get round SWIFT, you can’t evade a ban on clearing) the EU has yet to do the same. It would also be nice if some of them were to ban Russian flights and accept the pain that retaliation will bring. Next step would be to refuse flights that have overflown Russia - so China & Japan share the pain too.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
Why "even" Sir Keir Starmer? Given Starmer's forthright admirable stance on this crisis from day one, that comment should not have surprised in the slightest.
Indeed and I gave credit to Starmer for that.
Even Sir Keir because the Leader of the Opposition (regardless of who it is) traditionally dresses up their proposals as all upside and no downside.
For Sir Keir to be saying we should be doing something that he acknowledges would hurt Britons is refreshingly honest for any LOTO and credit to him for that.
The vast majority of European countries, including the UK and France it seems and the entire House of Commons it seems is willing to see Russia expelled from SWIFT but Germany isn't. Shame on Germany for that, that's more than just money and more than just "normalisation" with a normal country.
If you're Zelensky, what do you do now? Stay in Kyiv? Flee to Lviv? Flee elsewhere?
Saving your own life would indicate at least the second, if not the third. I wonder if he stayed in Kyiv, would the Russians be prepared to shoot a Head of State dead? And if they don't, is it straight off to the Gulag for him?
If they're willing to invade an entire country why would they baulk at shooting its leader?
German Ukraine arm supplies debate reignites as pledged helmets still not delivered
“If we had wanted to deliver weapons, we would have had to do that earlier,” CDU vice-party whip Johann Wadephul said. “Now, this is not possible anymore – we have an ongoing war,” he added.
The only military aid Germany promised to send Ukraine was a shipment of 5,000 helmets which still have not yet been delivered.
Reasons why i could never be a diplomat or politician no. 1325, from BBC
In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports.
Even if you are a brutal authoritarian I don't know how you can say something like that with a straight face. And why even bother? Even if you think Russia completely justified in its actions it has not been resolving matters through dialogue, and whispered surrunders after the shooting is not really the same thing.
Another example
And here's more now from Sergei Lavrov's news conference in Moscow.
He questions the stability of the Ukrainian state - and accuses Western nations of deliberately militarising the country.
Lavrov told reporters that Ukrainian people must now have the chance to "choose their own future".
I mean really, there's putting your country's position and then there's just taking the piss. Yes, the Ukrainian state is somewhat unstable at the moment, why is that I wonder?
Blatant lies, as has been noted many times, are a characteristic of authoritarian regimes. Lying with impunity demonstrates their power.
As always, Blair was there first.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth"
My favourite is the old Soviet joke:
“The future is certain. It’s the past that keeps changing”.
The Soviet Union is the most advanced country in the world. Things were already better yesterday than they're going to be tomorrow.
Two friends meet. One says, 'what do you think our future will be like in four years?' His friend replies, 'how should I know, we don't even know what our past will be like in three or four years.'
What's the difference between a Soviet optimist and a Soviet pessimist? A pessimist says 'things are so bad they can't possibly get worse,' while the optimist says, 'they can, and they really will.'
Putin calls Biden and says "our scientists have discovered a newspaper from the year 2100 and it says the US is no longer a superpower" Biden responds "our scientists have also discovered a newspaper from the year 2100, and it says there are skirmishes on the Chino- Finnish border".
BBC piece asking why is it so hard to fix the Met's toxic culture. I'd have thought the answer is simple, as with any organisation and institution with cultural problems - that the organisation doesn't want to change, and those who might force it to don't want to, even if they say they do (actions speaking louder than words)
Culture can be hard to change, but not as much as people suggest - where there is a will culture changes rapidly and decisively.
The most important thing is to realise there is a problem and then want to change it.
I don't believe the Met leadership really believe the first and so have no real will to do the second.
Until this changes, nothing much will really improve for the better.
There are lots of organisations that say all the right things but when faced with the reality of what that entails do nothing or the bare minimum, as I know professionally only too well.
I think they want to change (the leadership)
Except they don't want to the pain of actually changing. So they want reform without all that reform drama.
Bit like the Greek politicians who were all for reforming the economy as part of joining the Euro. Just the actual reforming of the economy wasn't their thing, was a bit hard and reform didn't suit them anyway.
Manchester United end their £40 million sponsorship deal with Aeroflot
Good for them
What next for Chelsea ?
Relegation?
While the Premier League seems to have no scruples on this matter, is it possible for the Premier League to say that Abromovich isn't a 'fit and proper' owner?
Or can that only be determined before takeover and not for an on-going owner?
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Also, the idea that if only Germany hadn't allowed Nordstream 2 to be built Putin would have dropped his invasion plans seems a bit far-fetched.
In fact, imagining the counter factual where there was no attempt to engage Russia, probably the planned invasion would be happening just the same and we'd be hearing loads of people saying "this is all the fault of the Germans for refusing to engage with Russia so now they've got nothing to lose"
Russia is getting about $1 billion a week from Nordstream 1 by my calculation, never mind Nordstream 2,
3 decades of Ostpolilitik has collapsed, and DE is in a mess because they had no plan B for Energy for if it did not work.
And of course DE did not say anything about actually stopping Nordstream 2 until it was too late. And it has only been suspended, not stopped.
It's a pity we are not even further ahead with offshore wind, as then we would be able to offer exports to offset their generation of electricity by gas.
If you're Zelensky, what do you do now? Stay in Kyiv? Flee to Lviv? Flee elsewhere?
Saving your own life would indicate at least the second, if not the third. I wonder if he stayed in Kyiv, would the Russians be prepared to shoot a Head of State dead? And if they don't, is it straight off to the Gulag for him?
If they're willing to invade an entire country why would they baulk at shooting its leader?
Navalny is still alive, because his martyrdom would be worth more than killing him would solve. At least so far.
I suspect Zelensky would be locked up if caught, however, I do expect him to go to Lviv.
Literally everything is seen through an economic or legal prism in the west nowadays. We are in a reality where Putin doesn’t recognise these - or doesn’t care.
Reasons why i could never be a diplomat or politician no. 1325, from BBC
In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports.
Even if you are a brutal authoritarian I don't know how you can say something like that with a straight face. And why even bother? Even if you think Russia completely justified in its actions it has not been resolving matters through dialogue, and whispered surrunders after the shooting is not really the same thing.
The nuance is impossible for me to gauge, but it almost sounds like a subtle put down. "We support you in efforts to resolve this through dialogue" rather leaves out what has been happening. It reads to me like diplo-speak for "you really shouldn't be doing it the way you are doing it, you monumental tit".
Xi is probably one of relatively few people who could get away with calling Putin a “monumental tit”
Manchester United end their £40 million sponsorship deal with Aeroflot
Good for them
What next for Chelsea ?
Relegation?
While the Premier League seems to have no scruples on this matter, is it possible for the Premier League to say that Abromovich isn't a 'fit and proper' owner?
Or can that only be determined before takeover and not for an on-going owner?
If you're Zelensky, what do you do now? Stay in Kyiv? Flee to Lviv? Flee elsewhere?
Saving your own life would indicate at least the second, if not the third. I wonder if he stayed in Kyiv, would the Russians be prepared to shoot a Head of State dead? And if they don't, is it straight off to the Gulag for him?
If they're willing to invade an entire country why would they baulk at shooting its leader?
Navalny is still alive, because his martyrdom would be worth more than killing him would solve. At least so far.
I suspect Zelensky would be locked up if caught, however, I do expect him to go to Lviv.
What is the difference between Putin and Zelensky?
One is a third rate failed comedian who can't act and has become President at the head of a Fascist cabal that spouts a load of rubbish about his country being invaded by a neighbour.
And the other is President of Ukraine.
(I would, incidentally, not consider any of that first sentence to apply to Zelensky. But the irony is Putin probably would.)
Mr. Dickson, do you think Scottish nationalism, which would've separated Scotland from both the UK and EU, would also have been a 'triumph for Putin'?
I suspect that Putin would encourage Sindy too, as he did with Brexit. A major theme of his foreign policy is to foment internal division in Western countries. Hence his troll farms being anti-woke too.
It doesn't invalidate the legitimacy of the issue, whether Brexit or Sindy, or BLM, but we should be aware of Putin's manipulations, and decide issues on their own merits.
Putin also foments Wokeness, on the Woke side. Of course you fastidiously pretend otherwise
Heck, Putin probably has a Reasonable Centrist Dad department in one of his troll farms. Sowing as many divisions as possible is what he does.
He knows there will be no united or effective responsive to his invasion from the west and sadly he will be proved right. The fact we are talking about moving the Champions League final from St Petersburg as if this will strike a terrible blow to Russia indicates the paucity of the response.
There has been a united effective response. Everyone is united in wanting to make life miserable for the Russian elite for the next few years. This is the only sustainable solution albeit less quick and emotionally satisfying that firing a gun. Everyone is also united in not wanting a war with a nuclear superpower (except Ben Wallace).
So far the united response has been to make strong speeches but otherwise do very little of real substance because we can't agree what to do.
I don't think there would have been the stomach for military intervention on behalf of Ukraine so I don't think there is much else we could do to really damage Putin. He knows that and, sadly, I think he will be proved right.
All the west can realistically do now is try to come up with a united plan to deter Putin from going any further.
The only way to do that is to demonstrate by actions now that should any aggressive action be taken by Russia against a NATO state, Art 5 will be invoked and military action will follow.
That doesn't mean fine words and the promise of unspecified sanctions. It means, I fear, being willing to fight for all those Baltic and Eastern European countries which were once part of the Soviet Union. We must be prepared to do this and Putin must believe that we are willing to do this.
If not, we will see the violent break up of the Eastern half of the EU and the reimposition of an Iron Curtain in Europe.
Perhaps I am unduly fearful. But it is the logical consequence of both Putin's speech the other day and his statement about the collapse of the Soviet Union being the worst thing to have happened in his lifetime. Why wouldn't he try to reimpose it if he thought he could?
I am fairly pessimistic. The problem will remain that I doubt every NATO member would be prepared to act in the circumstances you describe. If Trump or one his acolytes is back in the WH by then I suspect Putin would gamble on NATO not following through. Unless Germany have eliminated their energy dependence on Russia I expect all we will get there is weasel words again
In that case, NATO is dead and, as per @Cicero's post upthread, all the democracies of Europe are at risk.
Democracy in Europe cannot be held hostage to Germany's needs, a country which has, frankly, caused more misery and suffering in Europe in the last century or more than any other single country - along with Russia.
Manchester United end their £40 million sponsorship deal with Aeroflot
Good for them
What next for Chelsea ?
Relegation?
While the Premier League seems to have no scruples on this matter, is it possible for the Premier League to say that Abromovich isn't a 'fit and proper' owner?
Or can that only be determined before takeover and not for an on-going owner?
The FA determined that Thaskin would be fit and proper as an owner. Apparently, light recreational mass murder isn't a disqualification.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
If it gets to the point where your financial reliance or commitments prevent you from doing what is morally right - either as a country or an individual then in my view you have indeed sold your soul.
Actually I would correct what I have just written since I don't believe in blaming a country for the actions of its transient Government. So I would say it is the German Government rather than the whole country which has sold its soul. One could also make similar claims about the actions of the UK Government on many things, except I am not sure that most of them ever had a soul to sell.
Guving the PCP an ideal excuse in a time of conflict to only select one runner and stop the choice going to the membership. Question is do you trust PCP to make the right choice?
Manchester United end their £40 million sponsorship deal with Aeroflot
Good for them
What next for Chelsea ?
Relegation?
While the Premier League seems to have no scruples on this matter, is it possible for the Premier League to say that Abromovich isn't a 'fit and proper' owner?
Or can that only be determined before takeover and not for an on-going owner?
UEFA have refused to expel Russian prestige club Spartak Moscow from this years Europa League tournament.
The club owned by a close associate of Putin - oligarch & former military officer Leonid Fedun - is closely connected to many corrupt businesses & been honoured by Putin.
As someone who hates Bozo - now is not the time to replace him.
Let another set of events add more to the pile of issues that mean his long term reputation will be of incompetency, crookedness and material harm to the UK as a whole.
Guving the PCP an ideal excuse in a time of conflict to only select one runner and stop the choice going to the membership. Question is do you trust PCP to make the right choice?
There are very few members of the PCP who would be a worse PM than BoZo so the odds are good
Manchester United end their £40 million sponsorship deal with Aeroflot
Good for them
What next for Chelsea ?
Relegation?
While the Premier League seems to have no scruples on this matter, is it possible for the Premier League to say that Abromovich isn't a 'fit and proper' owner?
Or can that only be determined before takeover and not for an on-going owner?
Contrast "No Person may acquire any Holding in a Club if, pursuant to the law of the United Kingdom or the European Union: F.23.1. he/she is prohibited from entering the United Kingdom"
If you're Zelensky, what do you do now? Stay in Kyiv? Flee to Lviv? Flee elsewhere?
Saving your own life would indicate at least the second, if not the third. I wonder if he stayed in Kyiv, would the Russians be prepared to shoot a Head of State dead? And if they don't, is it straight off to the Gulag for him?
If they're willing to invade an entire country why would they baulk at shooting its leader?
I think at some point he needs to flee and setup a government in exile. But whatever he does he is being incredibly brave.
Let another set of events add more to the pile of issues that mean his long term reputation will be of incompetency, crookedness and material harm to the UK as a whole.
Reasons why i could never be a diplomat or politician no. 1325, from BBC
In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports.
Even if you are a brutal authoritarian I don't know how you can say something like that with a straight face. And why even bother? Even if you think Russia completely justified in its actions it has not been resolving matters through dialogue, and whispered surrunders after the shooting is not really the same thing.
Another example
And here's more now from Sergei Lavrov's news conference in Moscow.
He questions the stability of the Ukrainian state - and accuses Western nations of deliberately militarising the country.
Lavrov told reporters that Ukrainian people must now have the chance to "choose their own future".
I mean really, there's putting your country's position and then there's just taking the piss. Yes, the Ukrainian state is somewhat unstable at the moment, why is that I wonder?
Blatant lies, as has been noted many times, are a characteristic of authoritarian regimes. Lying with impunity demonstrates their power.
As always, Blair was there first.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth"
My favourite is the old Soviet joke:
“The future is certain. It’s the past that keeps changing”.
The Soviet Union is the most advanced country in the world. Things were already better yesterday than they're going to be tomorrow.
Two friends meet. One says, 'what do you think our future will be like in four years?' His friend replies, 'how should I know, we don't even know what our past will be like in three or four years.'
What's the difference between a Soviet optimist and a Soviet pessimist? A pessimist says 'things are so bad they can't possibly get worse,' while the optimist says, 'they can, and they really will.'
Putin calls Biden and says "our scientists have discovered a newspaper from the year 2100 and it says the US is no longer a superpower" Biden responds "our scientists have also discovered a newspaper from the year 2100, and it says there are skirmishes on the Chino- Finnish border".
Bush, Mitterrand and Gorbachev got caught up in an accident, and while unconscious, meet God
Bush asks -"When will America's problems be solved?" God says "10 years" Bush begins to cry - "I won't be President then" Mitterrand asks "When will France's problems be solved?" God says "20 years" Mitterrand begins to cry - "I'm an old man, I won't be President..." Gorbachev asks - "When will Russia's problems be solved?"
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
I'm not defending Germany's stance right now on sanctions. I'm giving some context on why Germany has, since the fall of the USSR and their reunification, been especially motivated to have a positive relationship with Russia. If you want to view these efforts as "selling their soul", so be it, but for me it's a shallow and jaundiced take.
Manchester United end their £40 million sponsorship deal with Aeroflot
Good for them
What next for Chelsea ?
Relegation?
While the Premier League seems to have no scruples on this matter, is it possible for the Premier League to say that Abromovich isn't a 'fit and proper' owner?
Or can that only be determined before takeover and not for an on-going owner?
The FA determined that Thaskin would be fit and proper as an owner. Apparently, light recreational mass murder isn't a disqualification.
There was a very interesting al jazeera documentary a few months ago where they posed as a dodgy Chinese businessman with criminal convictions and showed how he was still able to get to the stage of being able to buy Derby County.
It got zero coverage in the media here, despite a central claim of dodgy Cypriot passport scheme they exposed on camera, being shown to be 100% true and those shown on camera being later forced out of positions.
The Russians have yet to make the decisive breakthrough in Ukraine. They will do so eventually, but despite overwhelming numbers they seem to be making heavy weather of it. I wonder if military leaders would countenance an attack on a NATO member state, even if Putin wanted it to happen.
As someone who hates Bozo - now is not the time to replace him.
Let another set of events add more to the pile of issues that mean his long term reputation will be of incompetency, crookedness and material harm to the UK as a whole.
Also, leave Putin untouched till he has taken poland and the Baltic states, so that we can all hate him even more. egg him on, if anything. The last thing the world needs is a contemptible liar in charge of this country. Do you really think his incompetent frivolity over Kabul sent no message at allk to the Kremlin?
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
I'm not defending Germany's stance right now on sanctions. I'm giving some context on why Germany has, since the fall of the USSR and their reunification, been especially motivated to have a positive relationship with Russia. If you want to view these efforts as "selling their soul", so be it, but for me it's a shallow and jaundiced take.
No I am not viewing past efforts as "selling their soul".
I am saying their current stance is because they've sold their soul. The objection isn't to what they've done in the past, its to what they are [not] doing today.
Zelensky has made an appeal for Europeans with military experience to go to Ukraine to join their defence.
My heart sinks further when I read things like this
I have been in tears at times the last few days and what is happening is just dreadful
I have no idea where this is going, but it has to be time to allow Cambo and our own gas developments as we transition to green self sufficiency over the next 20 years
Number of mainstream parties that currently agree with you on that one?
Zero.
I am aware of that but Putin has changed everything
Ultimately, Putin will lose. He’s trying to destroy an idea “Ukraine” in the name of an idea that failed, It may take a while, but history and time are against him. In the meantime we must do all we can to raise the cost to Russia of his folly. While the UK and US have stopped clearing of their currencies (you can get round SWIFT, you can’t evade a ban on clearing) the EU has yet to do the same. It would also be nice if some of them were to ban Russian flights and accept the pain that retaliation will bring. Next step would be to refuse flights that have overflown Russia - so China & Japan share the pain too.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
I'm not defending Germany's stance right now on sanctions. I'm giving some context on why Germany has, since the fall of the USSR and their reunification, been especially motivated to have a positive relationship with Russia. If you want to view these efforts as "selling their soul", so be it, but for me it's a shallow and jaundiced take.
No I am not viewing past efforts as "selling their soul".
I am saying their current stance is because they've sold their soul. The objection isn't to what they've done in the past, its to what they are [not] doing today.
Can't you understand that?
Has any Western country so far imposed sanctions on the Russians that will cause it any meaningful pain? If we are asking the Germans to do that, shouldn't we be prepared to do it, too?
Reasons why i could never be a diplomat or politician no. 1325, from BBC
In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports.
Even if you are a brutal authoritarian I don't know how you can say something like that with a straight face. And why even bother? Even if you think Russia completely justified in its actions it has not been resolving matters through dialogue, and whispered surrunders after the shooting is not really the same thing.
Another example
And here's more now from Sergei Lavrov's news conference in Moscow.
He questions the stability of the Ukrainian state - and accuses Western nations of deliberately militarising the country.
Lavrov told reporters that Ukrainian people must now have the chance to "choose their own future".
I mean really, there's putting your country's position and then there's just taking the piss. Yes, the Ukrainian state is somewhat unstable at the moment, why is that I wonder?
Blatant lies, as has been noted many times, are a characteristic of authoritarian regimes. Lying with impunity demonstrates their power.
As always, Blair was there first.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth"
My favourite is the old Soviet joke:
“The future is certain. It’s the past that keeps changing”.
The Soviet Union is the most advanced country in the world. Things were already better yesterday than they're going to be tomorrow.
Two friends meet. One says, 'what do you think our future will be like in four years?' His friend replies, 'how should I know, we don't even know what our past will be like in three or four years.'
What's the difference between a Soviet optimist and a Soviet pessimist? A pessimist says 'things are so bad they can't possibly get worse,' while the optimist says, 'they can, and they really will.'
Putin calls Biden and says "our scientists have discovered a newspaper from the year 2100 and it says the US is no longer a superpower" Biden responds "our scientists have also discovered a newspaper from the year 2100, and it says there are skirmishes on the Chino- Finnish border".
Putin and Biden decided to have a running race around the Kremlin which Biden won.
Russian media reported that Putin came second while Biden was next to last.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
They have bought the gas, using money, to heat and light their houses. Souls form no part of the transaction.
Zelensky has made an appeal for Europeans with military experience to go to Ukraine to join their defence.
My heart sinks further when I read things like this
I have been in tears at times the last few days and what is happening is just dreadful
I have no idea where this is going, but it has to be time to allow Cambo and our own gas developments as we transition to green self sufficiency over the next 20 years
Number of mainstream parties that currently agree with you on that one?
Zero.
I am aware of that but Putin has changed everything
Manchester United end their £40 million sponsorship deal with Aeroflot
Good for them
What next for Chelsea ?
Relegation?
While the Premier League seems to have no scruples on this matter, is it possible for the Premier League to say that Abromovich isn't a 'fit and proper' owner?
Or can that only be determined before takeover and not for an on-going owner?
The FA determined that Thaskin would be fit and proper as an owner. Apparently, light recreational mass murder isn't a disqualification.
There was a very interesting al jazeera documentary a few months ago where they posed as a dodgy Chinese businessman with criminal convictions and showed how he was still able to get to the stage of being able to buy Derby County.
It got zero coverage in the media here, despite a central claim of dodgy Cypriot passport scheme they exposed on camera, being shown to be 100% true and those shown on camera being later forced out of positions.
The Russians have yet to make the decisive breakthrough in Ukraine. They will do so eventually, but despite overwhelming numbers they seem to be making heavy weather of it. I wonder if military leaders would countenance an attack on a NATO member state, even if Putin wanted it to happen.
'I Don't Know Why He's There': Russian Mothers Say Soldiers Tricked Into Going to Ukraine Russian law prohibits conscripts from being sent to the front unless they choose to sign a contract and become career soldiers. But in Ukraine, 'there are a lot of draftees. None of them signed up'
I thought everybody thought conscripts were a useless pita in a shooting war anyway? Why are they even there Is it possible that Putin had Sadaam's problem, that his army is shit and nobody wants to tell him?
Johnson, Trump, Putin, Xi and Bolsonaro are on a plane together. The plane crashes. Who is saved?
The rest of us...
Reminds me of a joke.
"Trump and Putin die in the same plane crash and go to hell. The devil greets them and says to help them settle in he'll give them one wish.
Trump asks if he can carry on speaking to his underlings in the Trump organisation. The devil says sure and points to a pay phone in the corner. "You can use that but it'll cost you £100 a minute ".
Putin asks is he can carry on speaking to his secret service in Russia. The devil points to the pay phone and says calls will be 10p a minute. "Why so cheap" asks Putin. The devil smiles and says "Because it's a local call".
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
They have bought the gas, using money, to heat and light their houses. Souls form no part of the transaction.
Unless Russian gas is made from Dead Souls?!
I listened to some of that on r4 a year or two ago and keep meaning to read it
In Tallinn this morning we are waking up to a world that is changed beyond all our fears. The invasion of Ukraine is seen here as only the first step in an attempte to bring all of the democracies of Europe under either direct Russian control or under the control of Putin´s puppets. As deranged and dangerous as his statements about pushing NATO back beyond the Elbe have been, the truth is that Putin is serious and the implications of his challenge to all civilised values is another general European war, and one that has the capacity to go both global and nuclear very easily.
So, now everyone knows what the Balts have been warning of for years: Putin´s Russia is out of control and threatening to take the whole world into a new dark age.
I think, after two days of fighting, it is simply too soon to tell what the ultimate course of events will be. The fog of war is not to be cleared by social media posts or rumours, so I will discount whatever supposedly detailed information that people claim to have. The only thing we can be sure of is that the Ukrainians are making a fight of it. Equally, Russian forces seem poised to capture major parts of the country. Capturing is not, however, the same as holding. Even a defeated Ukraine will not be easily pacified and I would point out that Western leaders are warning us that this could be a very long process. So even if we take a few hours or days to negotiate such moves as the Russian disconnection from Swift and the various other parts of the sanctions package then let us be patient while the coalition of democracies works things out.
Public opinion around the world is outraged by this. However we will not get easy or quick solutions. Being angry because some figure does not do what you think is necessary is not going to help the process. We are walking on eggs, to try to avoid the slide to nuclear megadeath. Caution and ruthless cold logic dictates that we remain calm, resolved and united. It is critical thát the Putin regime is removed, but in its death throes it has the capacity to kill all of us,
Don´t beleive all you read/see/hear. and remember we need to be methodical and determined to come out of this alive and free.
I don't think Putin has any intention of "holding" Ukraine. The goal will be regime change and find another Lukashenko who will do massive repression of dissent on Russia's behalf.
Without Russian occupation, if they withdraw then a Lukashenko type will struggle to hold on to power in Ukraine.
The population is very well armed now to defend themselves.
But it would keep it continually destabilised. That's enough.
Come off it. He would be dropping the nukes on Kiev himself.
What an unbelievably childish and stupid comment from EPG. Straight out of the sixth form debating society playbook that has led us to where we are.
Indeed.
Trump would be telling the Ukrainians he'd get involved, so long as they dig up dirt on his political opponents for him.
German policy over the last decade is turning into a total and complete catastrophe. Trump, arrogant and insensitive as he is, saw that, and tried to warn them in the excerpt HYUFD quoted.
Oh but its all Trump's fault, right? delusional.
I specifically attacked Germany and Italy before for selling their souls and was inanely accused of anti European prejudice by Kinabalu and now you think I delusionally believe it's all about Trump.
How about no. Germany's policies for years have been an utter disaster. So was Trump. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Germany "selling their soul" for Russian gas. This is the sort of thing I mean. Not just you but tons of people expressing themselves like this.
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Yes selling their soul.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
I'm not defending Germany's stance right now on sanctions. I'm giving some context on why Germany has, since the fall of the USSR and their reunification, been especially motivated to have a positive relationship with Russia. If you want to view these efforts as "selling their soul", so be it, but for me it's a shallow and jaundiced take.
No I am not viewing past efforts as "selling their soul".
I am saying their current stance is because they've sold their soul. The objection isn't to what they've done in the past, its to what they are [not] doing today.
Can't you understand that?
So the gas/money transaction becomes a gas/souls transaction retrospectively, spooky backwards in time kinda thing?
I watched Looper yesterday. Meh, the Willis character is too much of a shit and the plot is too Terminator. Also can't decide if the spooky little boy is also the other two.
Comments
So, now everyone knows what the Balts have been warning of for years: Putin´s Russia is out of control and threatening to take the whole world into a new dark age.
I think, after two days of fighting, it is simply too soon to tell what the ultimate course of events will be. The fog of war is not to be cleared by social media posts or rumours, so I will discount whatever supposedly detailed information that people claim to have. The only thing we can be sure of is that the Ukrainians are making a fight of it. Equally, Russian forces seem poised to capture major parts of the country. Capturing is not, however, the same as holding. Even a defeated Ukraine will not be easily pacified and I would point out that Western leaders are warning us that this could be a very long process. So even if we take a few hours or days to negotiate such moves as the Russian disconnection from Swift and the various other parts of the sanctions package then let us be patient while the coalition of democracies works things out.
Public opinion around the world is outraged by this. However we will not get easy or quick solutions. Being angry because some figure does not do what you think is necessary is not going to help the process. We are walking on eggs, to try to avoid the slide to nuclear megadeath. Caution and ruthless cold logic dictates that we remain calm, resolved and united. It is critical thát the Putin regime is removed, but in its death throes it has the capacity to kill all of us,
Don´t beleive all you read/see/hear. and remember we need to be methodical and determined to come out of this alive and free.
By the way, at what level "is it right that they pay"? Before this, it was over £27,000. Now it seems to be right that they pay 9% extra in (effective) tax beyond £25,000. Would £22,000 be more right? £20,000? £12,500?
Paying further and further into their lives, again, is very painful. Would you be in favour of increasing to to 67 and the retirement age? Or how about beyond?
"Some non-Russell Group and non-STEM graduates..." seriously? You are aware that approaching 80% of those in full time employment in their forties will be over this threshold now - you seem to be trying to imply that it's only a small proportion who will be caught.
This will affect almost everyone. Those on below-average incomes and those from families with below-average incomes (so hurting the aspirational - I always thought the Tories claimed to be pro-aspiration?) will be negatively affected. This COSTS them money. It also means they have less disposable income to afford, say, mortgage prices.
Those with significantly above-average incomes and from richer families will be helped. This saves THEM money, as shown starkly by the distribution graph posted earlier.
It's regressive, anti-aspirational, and pro-richer people. All the handwaving you can do doesn't retract from that.
It does seem as though the Tories are intent on turning what was once an age effect (younger people do not vote Tory; older ones do) into a cohort effect (those born before a certain date will trend Tory; those over will not).
The FIA has announced that it has stripped Russia of the right to host a Formula 1 Grand Prix for the coming season.
In a statement issued on Friday, the organisation said "it is impossible to to hold the Russian Grand Prix in the current circumstances".
"The FIA Formula 1 World Championship visits countries the world over with a positive vision to unite people, bringing nations together," it said.
Hey, Russia is all about bringing nations together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XETxuIcCdBQ
I watched a doc the other day about the StalinRussia/NaziGermany conflict - the dense black core of WW2 militarily if anything can be described that way. It wasn't that long ago, really, and this terrible history (between those nations) weighs heavy. In Germany there is great guilt and sensitivity about it.
So, ok, Germany seeking to normalize relations with Russia, be friends, trading actively with them, the energy arrangements, all of this now stands revealed as a serious geopolitical mistake - but "selling their soul"? C'mon.
Many of those same people in their 60s, including the architects of the present swinging loan regime (i.e. Cameron/Osborne/Clegg), were basically paid to go to university through a support grant and came out pretty well free of debt without needing to work while they were there.
eg. Me, my Dad was a Deputy Head in a 2,000 pupil secondary school so not short of cash. I got a full maintenance grant for 4 years, took on occasional seasonal jobs but only when back home in the (long) holiday period or otherwise claimed unemployment benefit, ran a car at uni and came out with a bit of cash in the bank rather than £50k of debt. What's more, degrees weren't two a penny and so I'd actually got something of value in the employment market, walking into a graduate entry scheme job on leaving. That sort of thing was pretty common.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth"
Putin wanted this invasion. We won't really know what would have stopped him in the last six months until he and his friends end up in the Hague.
So that won't happen.
There is a very well funded, very influential, lobby on the side of green energy which has won the battle.
There is no rolling back on this.
There is support for high gas prices with mitigation for the poorest to help drive the transition to green. Tory MP Chris Skidmore tweeted recently the solution to high gas prices is not more gas. He is part of a pro net zero Tory parliamentary group.
Oh, and I completely agree with you too. But it will not happen.
He's a dangerous lunatic now, and we have to hope someone internally takes him out pronto.
England:
Lab 46%
Con 39%
LD 9%
Grn 4%
Ref 2%
Jockistan:
SNP 41%
SLab 23%
SCon 16%
SLD 15%
Ref 4%
Grn 1%
Western conquest:
WLab 39%
WCon 30%
PC 20%
WLD 8%
Grn 3%
Ref 2%
(Political Polling and the Russia-Ukraine Crisis by Survation; 17-21 February; 2,050)
If however I were Georgia for instance I would be very concerned.
Trading with friendly allies is one thing, but Russia is not a friendly ally. So why is Germany refusing to expel them from SWIFT?
The French tried diplomacy too, but once Russia invaded they said that they'd been lied to and that action now needed to be taken. Credit to Macron for that.
But Germany is blocking sanctions. That's not to "normalise" relations, there's nothing "normal" about one European nation invading a European democracy.
There is no excuse to blocking the sanctions, except that they've sold their souls because of the gas. Sanctions should hurt yourself as well as the other party - even Sir Keir Starmer said that, credit where it's due - but two nations are refusing to do so.
If not because they've sold their souls for gas, then why?
“The future is certain. It’s the past that keeps changing”.
The population is very well armed now to defend themselves.
Nataliya Vasilyeva
@Nat_Vasilyeva
·
32m
Sign of how toxic Russia's war in Ukraine is:
Elena Chernenko, arguably Russia's best foreign policy reporter, has been kicked out of Lavrov's pool for starting and signing an anti-war petition.
Elena is widely known as a level-headed professional.
https://twitter.com/Nat_Vasilyeva/status/1497179599142330375
And all those claims about not doing enough to invest in renewables is bunkum. We have increased our yearly wind generation from 5,000 GWh to 70,000 GWh in just 12 years and we are literally building wind turbines as fast as we can. The hold up, where it exists, is not through regulatory or government hindrance but through physical limits on how fast we can build and install the things. Even so we now have the largest offshore wind capacity in the world.
And once you have completely decarbonised energy, you will still need the 40% of every barrel of oil that doesn't get burnt for all the other stuff it is used for - important stuff like lubricants, plastics and medicines. So if you don't have a home grown hydrocarbon industry then you will still have to have the headache of importing from all those other nasty countries.
And of course you won't be able to take an asprin for it because that is made from hydrocarbons.
Carbon intensity of UK electricity is already 2/3 less than it was in 2015.
The strategy is in place to make the UK an exporter of energy with 15-20 years.
God knows why the Tories have not been shouting this stuff from the housetops for these last years.
Two friends meet. One says, 'what do you think our future will be like in four years?' His friend replies, 'how should I know, we don't even know what our past will be like in three or four years.'
What's the difference between a Soviet optimist and a Soviet pessimist? A pessimist says 'things are so bad they can't possibly get worse,' while the optimist says, 'they can, and they really will.'
The money has been spent in the past for gas in the past, there is nothing wrong with that. But once you are changing your geopolitical actions, letting down allies and refusing to stand up to aggressors there's more than just money involved.
The writer Vasily Grossman details the depressing familiarity of watching the unbuckling of belts and screaming of girls as columns of German refugees were overhauled by advancing soldiers.
Where's the Russian guilt? where's the Russia guilt over the immense suffering caused by oppressed people in the satellite states during the Warsaw pact years?
Given the opportunity Russians are just as cruel as anybody.
If you're Zelensky, what do you do now?
Stay in Kyiv? Flee to Lviv? Flee elsewhere?
Saving your own life would indicate at least the second, if not the third.
I wonder if he stayed in Kyiv, would the Russians be prepared to shoot a Head of State dead?
And if they don't, is it straight off to the Gulag for him?
In fact, imagining the counter factual where there was no attempt to engage Russia, probably the planned invasion would be happening just the same and we'd be hearing loads of people saying "this is all the fault of the Germans for refusing to engage with Russia so now they've got nothing to lose"
I really do not think the EU walks out of this crisis - whenever it ends - in a stronger position. It is hopelessly impotent and divided.
We have also spent too long placating the Russians in London, time to wean ourselves off their dirty money
Realpolitik requires sacrifices.
I don't believe the Met leadership really believe the first and so have no real will to do the second.
Until this changes, nothing much will really improve for the better.
There are lots of organisations that say all the right things but when faced with the reality of what that entails do nothing or the bare minimum, as I know professionally only too well.
Perhaps this is a turning point for Putin and his Russia
An old couple live in an apartment in Moscow and she sends him down to buy some meat for supper. After queueing for the obligatory three hours he gets to the counter and the woman says 'No more meat, meat finished'.
He cracks and starts raving 'I fought in the Revolution, I fought for Lenin in the First World War and for Stalin in the Second World War and we are still in this shit?' One of the leather-jacketed brigade takes him on one side and says 'Look old man you know you can't talk like this. Just think, a few years ago you would have been shot for saying these things.'
The old man trudges home. His wife seeing him empty-handed says 'Run out of meat again have they?' He says: 'It's worse than that, they've run out of bullets.'
Even Sir Keir because the Leader of the Opposition (regardless of who it is) traditionally dresses up their proposals as all upside and no downside.
For Sir Keir to be saying we should be doing something that he acknowledges would hurt Britons is refreshingly honest for any LOTO and credit to him for that.
The vast majority of European countries, including the UK and France it seems and the entire House of Commons it seems is willing to see Russia expelled from SWIFT but Germany isn't. Shame on Germany for that, that's more than just money and more than just "normalisation" with a normal country.
Good for them
What next for Chelsea ?
German Ukraine arm supplies debate reignites as pledged helmets still not delivered
“If we had wanted to deliver weapons, we would have had to do that earlier,” CDU vice-party whip Johann Wadephul said. “Now, this is not possible anymore – we have an ongoing war,” he added.
The only military aid Germany promised to send Ukraine was a shipment of 5,000 helmets which still have not yet been delivered.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/all/short_news/german-ukraine-arm-supplies-debate-reignites-as-pledged-helmets-still-not-delivered/
Except they don't want to the pain of actually changing. So they want reform without all that reform drama.
Bit like the Greek politicians who were all for reforming the economy as part of joining the Euro. Just the actual reforming of the economy wasn't their thing, was a bit hard and reform didn't suit them anyway.
If you want a picture of the future imagine a stilleto heel stamping on your nutsack for ever.
Or can that only be determined before takeover and not for an on-going owner?
3 decades of Ostpolilitik has collapsed, and DE is in a mess because they had no plan B for Energy for if it did not work.
And of course DE did not say anything about actually stopping Nordstream 2 until it was too late. And it has only been suspended, not stopped.
It's a pity we are not even further ahead with offshore wind, as then we would be able to offer exports to offset their generation of electricity by gas.
I suspect Zelensky would be locked up if caught, however, I do expect him to go to Lviv.
https://twitter.com/PigsAndPolling/status/1497185817067986944
Your regular reminder that now is exactly the right time to remove him https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/1497139951552671744
We need to pull our heads out of our arses
https://www.premierleague.com/news/102375
One is a third rate failed comedian who can't act and has become President at the head of a Fascist cabal that spouts a load of rubbish about his country being invaded by a neighbour.
And the other is President of Ukraine.
(I would, incidentally, not consider any of that first sentence to apply to Zelensky. But the irony is Putin probably would.)
Democracy in Europe cannot be held hostage to Germany's needs, a country which has, frankly, caused more misery and suffering in Europe in the last century or more than any other single country - along with Russia.
Question is do you trust PCP to make the right choice?
Surely the Premier League needs to take action at some point if so?
The club owned by a close associate of Putin - oligarch & former military officer Leonid Fedun - is closely connected to many corrupt businesses & been honoured by Putin.
https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1497171738936766466
The rest of us...
Let another set of events add more to the pile of issues that mean his long term reputation will be of incompetency, crookedness and material harm to the UK as a whole.
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2022/02/14/83120bf7-1dbc-4d3a-b96f-7d54718bc62a/PL_Handbook_2021_22_DIGITAL_11-02-22.pdf
Even that may not be enough.
Contrast "No Person may acquire any Holding in a Club if, pursuant to the law of the United Kingdom or the European Union:
F.23.1. he/she is prohibited from entering the United Kingdom"
What would you do if a foreign army landed in Britain?
What would you say to the kids before you left home not for work but for war?
What would you say to your friends who decided to flee to protect their family while you fought? Or to those who fought while you leave?
https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1497121830125064193
https://twitter.com/ianbirrell/status/1497120472873545729
He should ask his fellow Tory MPs who can't summon up enough courage to write a letter...
Bush asks -"When will America's problems be solved?"
God says "10 years"
Bush begins to cry - "I won't be President then"
Mitterrand asks "When will France's problems be solved?"
God says "20 years"
Mitterrand begins to cry - "I'm an old man, I won't be President..."
Gorbachev asks - "When will Russia's problems be solved?"
God begins to cry...
It got zero coverage in the media here, despite a central claim of dodgy Cypriot passport scheme they exposed on camera, being shown to be 100% true and those shown on camera being later forced out of positions.
The Men Who Sell Football | Al Jazeera Investigations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldgTCXpDEgk
I am saying their current stance is because they've sold their soul. The objection isn't to what they've done in the past, its to what they are [not] doing today.
Can't you understand that?
Russian media reported that Putin came second while Biden was next to last.
The electorate? who knows.
Being poor.
Russian law prohibits conscripts from being sent to the front unless they choose to sign a contract and become career soldiers. But in Ukraine, 'there are a lot of draftees. None of them signed up'
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium.HIGHLIGHT-why-is-he-there-russian-mothers-say-soldiers-tricked-into-going-to-ukraine-1.10633865
What?
I thought everybody thought conscripts were a useless pita in a shooting war anyway? Why are they even there Is it possible that Putin had Sadaam's problem, that his army is shit and nobody wants to tell him?
"Trump and Putin die in the same plane crash and go to hell. The devil greets them and says to help them settle in he'll give them one wish.
Trump asks if he can carry on speaking to his underlings in the Trump organisation. The devil says sure and points to a pay phone in the corner. "You can use that but it'll cost you £100 a minute ".
Putin asks is he can carry on speaking to his secret service in Russia. The devil points to the pay phone and says calls will be 10p a minute. "Why so cheap" asks Putin. The devil smiles and says "Because it's a local call".
I watched Looper yesterday. Meh, the Willis character is too much of a shit and the plot is too Terminator. Also can't decide if the spooky little boy is also the other two.
Vettel took a principled line on this yesterday when asked at the press conference for his views.