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What should the Met do now? – politicalbetting.com

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  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Really impressed by Sadiq Khan over this.

    Priti Patel is a very disagreeable person. I like how Khan has forced the issue.

    https://news.sky.com/story/dame-cressida-dick-priti-patel-and-sadiq-khan-clash-over-met-police-chiefs-departure-12538819
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    DavidL said:

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Well, looks like I was wrong that this was an agreement between Khan and Patel. It seems as if Sadiq effectively forced her out, which is quite surprising and really rather impressive.

    Where does this leave Boris Johnson?
    A really good piece in the Telegraph:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/10/cressida-dicks-resignation-means-boris-johnson-partygate-investigation/

    Basically the same as Boris did with Sir Ian Blair but the difference is that Boris did this pretty much straight away and Sadiq has dithered for years. It also makes the job somewhat unattractive in that you are constantly left torn between 2 political masters, often of different political persuasions, and with different priorities. This will need sorted out, I do not think it is sustainable.

    But there is plenty of blame to go around here. She was an extraordinary appointment in the first place. The results of the inquiry (I slightly lose track of which one) where she personally was named as seeking to undermine the inquiries efforts and investigations should have been instant dismissal. How could anyone have thought that someone with those flaws was the person to change the culture at the Met?
    The decision of Patel to renew her mandate remains even more bewildering than the original appointment. All of her many weaknesses had been manifest for years by that point. An extremely poor decision on her part.
    It has been suggested that the renewal of the contract was to timeout some of the old guards police types who would then retire.

    Simply appointing an outsider to the Met past "suitable*" candidates will start a "war with the police". In their jargon. Cameron started a "war" by allowing the Hillsborough stuff to go forward....

    *Completely unsuitable and fucking useless
  • Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    This is my bread and butter. I have been doing this stuff for years.

    Very good at it you are too. I always enjoy your columns here.
    Thank you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    If Putin goes beyond Ukraine and into a NATO nation then those B52s and the extra US and NATO troops being sent to Poland, Romania and the Baltic States would be used.

    Ukraine alone however would not lead to war, just US led economic sanctions on Russia
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022
    People talk about the serial failure Andy Burnham as a future Labour leader.

    Might the person not come from London ... ;)

    I'm not being wholly serious as he seems to annoy some people (Islamophobia?) but Sadiq has risen hugely in my estimation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,583

    DavidL said:

    Heathener said:

    Morning all.

    Well, looks like I was wrong that this was an agreement between Khan and Patel. It seems as if Sadiq effectively forced her out, which is quite surprising and really rather impressive.

    Where does this leave Boris Johnson?
    A really good piece in the Telegraph:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/10/cressida-dicks-resignation-means-boris-johnson-partygate-investigation/

    Basically the same as Boris did with Sir Ian Blair but the difference is that Boris did this pretty much straight away and Sadiq has dithered for years. It also makes the job somewhat unattractive in that you are constantly left torn between 2 political masters, often of different political persuasions, and with different priorities. This will need sorted out, I do not think it is sustainable.

    But there is plenty of blame to go around here. She was an extraordinary appointment in the first place. The results of the inquiry (I slightly lose track of which one) where she personally was named as seeking to undermine the inquiries efforts and investigations should have been instant dismissal. How could anyone have thought that someone with those flaws was the person to change the culture at the Met?
    The decision of Patel to renew her mandate remains even more bewildering than the original appointment. All of her many weaknesses had been manifest for years by that point. An extremely poor decision on her part.
    It has been suggested that the renewal of the contract was to timeout some of the old guards police types who would then retire.

    Simply appointing an outsider to the Met past "suitable*" candidates will start a "war with the police". In their jargon. Cameron started a "war" by allowing the Hillsborough stuff to go forward....

    *Completely unsuitable and fucking useless
    Bring in the outsider, and empower them to give early retirement with full pay and pension to anyone who gets in the way.

    That, or make them chief superintendent in charge of paperclip shuffling until they walk.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    If Putin goes beyond Ukraine
    He won't.

    Not unless Johnson and Truss keep poking the bear enough to get what they want: an invasion.

    Nothing would suit Boris Johnson better than for Russia to invade.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/policeuk/

    Serving officers seem overwhelmingly pro Dick and anti Khan, who is attracting accusations of opportunism from lots of quarters this morning
  • Scott_xP said:

    🚨 Scoop from @EleniCourea: Boris Johnson risks wrath of MPs by restarting trade talks with China that have been on ice for years https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-uk-china-trade-economy/

    With only trade deals with minnows to show, where do you go ?

    It could be a new song.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Heathener said:

    The bullying & sense of entitlement of Stonewall appears to know no bounds.

    The @EHRC & @EHRCChair are insisting on balancing everyone's rights, including the rights of women & LGB people.

    Hold firm. You enjoy huge support.


    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1492029901708447744?s=20&t=CsScW1ZzbBeOe2-NcgqJqg

    I don't mind reasoned debate on this topic but unfortunately there are massive amounts of vile, poisonous, comments from all quarters.

    And, worse, childish throwaway 'jokes' which aren't remotely funny, combined with pernicious phobic remarks. This forum is sadly not immune from them.
    This forum is largely composed of childish jokes. This saves it from becomes a screaming match. Sometimes.

    The problem with the topic in question is that you have two groups. Both have an arguable case. Their red lines are not compatible. Compromise means betrayal to both.

    This represents a genuine problem for those involved in Human Rights arguments - 99% of recent activity in this area has simply consisted of "getting equal rights for group x". Rights clashing with another *deserving* group is a new experience for many, and the lack of familiarity with compromise and balance shows.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,583
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/policeuk/

    Serving officers seem overwhelmingly pro Dick and anti Khan, who is attracting accusations of opportunism from lots of quarters this morning
    Of course they are supporting the personification of the idea that screwing up at work, to the point of killing the wrong man and covering it up, doesn’t stand in the way of further promotion.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Heathener said:

    People talk about the serial failure Andy Burnham as a future Labour leader.

    Might the person not come from London ... ;)

    I'm not being wholly serious as he seems to annoy some people (Islamophobia?) but Sadiq has risen hugely in my estimation.

    Khan is yet ANOTHER Second Voter who tried to THWART THE LIVING AND EXPRESSED WILL OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE, he is a snivelling little arse-shrew of a man who hates the GLORY of Brexit and

    Nope, only joking

    Morning!



  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/policeuk/

    Serving officers seem overwhelmingly pro Dick and anti Khan, who is attracting accusations of opportunism from lots of quarters this morning
    Of course they are supporting the personification of the idea that screwing up at work, to the point of killing the wrong man and covering it up, doesn’t stand in the way of further promotion.
    Yes, well we all make mistakes.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    Part of the problem, of course. I have no doubt that many of the homophobic etc officers are physical;y brave and, where homophobia isn't an issue, competent.
    With society being more open than in the past, gay people form a sizeable percentage of the population (about 5%). That makes homophobia a career issue for people like the Police.

    2.7% including Bisexuals and Other, albeit higher in London and younger age groups.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2019
    Yes 6.6% LGB amongst 16 to 24 year olds, 3.8% LGB in London. Both clearly above the UK average
    It's a measure of who is out, rather than who is LGB. Rather like Covid case numbers, which depend on testing levels and always underestimate the total. Young people have fewer social taboos around sexuality.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/policeuk/

    Serving officers seem overwhelmingly pro Dick and anti Khan, who is attracting accusations of opportunism from lots of quarters this morning
    Of course they are supporting the personification of the idea that screwing up at work, to the point of killing the wrong man and covering it up, doesn’t stand in the way of further promotion.
    Exactly.

    This is why Upper 10,000 people hire other Upper 10,000 types who fuck up. With golden parachutes, golden hellos, and pay rises. Because helping others *like* you is helping yourself.
  • Boris Johnson returning to the kowtowing complacency of Cameron and May on China would be a serious and obviously stupid retrograde step.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    People talk about the serial failure Andy Burnham as a future Labour leader.

    Might the person not come from London ... ;)

    I'm not being wholly serious as he seems to annoy some people (Islamophobia?) but Sadiq has risen hugely in my estimation.


    Nope, only joking

    Morning!

    Good morning.

    For a moment there I was thinking, 'oh no ... not again.'

    Most Londoners are remainers really, including Boris Johnson. The multi-cultural multi-ethnic melting pot of London makes it impossible to be a Brexiteer.

    Which is probably why you're so conflicted.

    See how I've baited you? ;)
  • Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    Part of the problem, of course. I have no doubt that many of the homophobic etc officers are physical;y brave and, where homophobia isn't an issue, competent.
    I listened to the interview, and it was very much a 'just a few bad apples' argument.
    And on what basis can you claim that 99% of officers are brave, or good, or even competent ?
    It's just rhetorical bullshit.

    How can you even begin to reform an organisation if you start out with those assumptions ?
    How many bad apples does it take to keep a guy known as “The Rapist” in the force, in a specialist armed unit at that, until one day he uses his badge to abduct, rape and kill a random member of the public?

    That’s not one bad apple, thats a rotten orchard.

    Three more rapes have been in court in recent months too.
    Wayne Couzens was nicknamed "the rapist" in his previous job, not in the Metropolitan Police. It may have been a failure of vetting on his recruitment but once he was in the Met, it is hard to see how they could have dismissed him for having a nickname they did not know about. Should using prostitutes be held against him?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    The B-52H can't be used in contested airspace - easy pickings for the Su-30SM/Adder combo - so what are they for? Getting air supremacy over Ukraine/Russia involves starting WW3...
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/policeuk/

    Serving officers seem overwhelmingly pro Dick and anti Khan, who is attracting accusations of opportunism from lots of quarters this morning
    She certainly doesn’t seem to have lost the dressing room. The warty old cynic in me tends to think that’s a large part of the problem.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited February 2022
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    If Putin goes beyond Ukraine
    He won't.

    Not unless Johnson and Truss keep poking the bear enough to get what they want: an invasion.

    Nothing would suit Boris Johnson better than for Russia to invade.
    Rubbish. There's no evidence that anyone in the UK government is in favour of that. This is conspiracy-theory level hogwash.
    I certainly think Johnson and Truss are playing it up a bit for distraction, as is incredibly obvious, but I wouldn't go as far as that myself, either. Even Bozo knows that a potentially very unpredictable conflict with Russia is not a good idea.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    If Putin goes beyond Ukraine
    He won't.

    Not unless Johnson and Truss keep poking the bear enough to get what they want: an invasion.

    Nothing would suit Boris Johnson better than for Russia to invade.
    Rubbish. There's no evidence that anyone in the UK government is in favour of that. This is conspiracy-theory level hogwash.
    I enjoyed writing it.

    What you have to remember about Boris Johnson, and you will fail to understand politics if you don't, is that he cares about no-one and nothing except himself. He will thrown anyone and anything under the bus to save his skin.

    Johnson would LOVE Russia to invade Ukraine. It would end the leadership challenge.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    Pretty close to Salisbury..
    Someone should tell Putin that they are using Salisbury Cathedral as a practise aim point.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    Pretty close to Salisbury..
    To bomb Russians there?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The tragedy of Boris Johnson
    He had the chance to save Britain — and squandered it
    By Aris Roussinos"

    https://unherd.com/2022/02/the-tragedy-of-boris-johnson/

    That article sums up both what I love and hate about UnHerd.

    It's a generally good analysis, that is well written, and well argued, but also contains this utter horse-shit:

    As with Trump, Johnson’s political foes, the liberal establishment he had betrayed, stymied his rule with all the stunts and tricks liberalism deploys to arrest democracy, here directly imported from the imperial metropole: the fictitious parallel institutions of liberal shadow governance such as Independent Sage, the same pointless, time-consuming lawfare of Twitter barristers calling themselves defenders of the rule of law, the same mass demonstrations of fevered identity warriors stoked by the opposition press for narrow political gain. No scandal was too petty, no wild accusation of fascism or dictatorial tendencies too overblown in the liberal para-state’s mission to save democracy from the voters.

    As if Independent Sage had any role in anything, or is part of some organised conspiracy. Independent Sage was a joke: but it was a joke that went out and published forecasts, and they were wrong. And it wasn't part of any "para-state", it was simply the fact that the person with the most outlandish views is the most newsworthy.

    This throwing together of a bunch of disparate people, with nothing in common and no connection to each other, as if it were part of some global conspiracy is so absurd as to be barely believeable.

    Does the author really believe that the members of iSage were in cahoots with the identity warriors of BLM? Ridiculous and absurd.

    But what's worse is that this horse-shit distracts and devalues what is basically good analysis.

    Rant over.
    It's not as outlandish as you might think. Independent Sage is run by an organsiation called 'The Citizens' that was set up to 'hold the government to account' and funds activism from the likes of Carole Cadwalladr and Femi Oluwole who says that 'all 357 Tory MPs' are fascists because they voted for the policing bill.

    This is another one of their offshoots, which is an explicit copy of a US organisation that is documenting 'the end of democracy':

    "In Britain, we are witnessing a systematic assault on our democracy... Every institution is under attack: the NHS, the BBC, the Electoral Commission, Ofcom."

    https://keepingthereceipts.substack.com/about
    The Johnson administration is a genuine threat to all our freedoms. There is no history of any modern British government trying to pass measures like those in the Policing Bill, and no other modern Western nation nation is doing so. Likewise there is no other Western government, right or left, trying to pass measures on voting inspired by Trumpite Republicanism.

    These are not imaginary threats.
    "Measures on voting inspired by Trumpite Republicanism"? You mean like photo ID, as most European democracies already require? Personally I would regret losing one of the symbols of a high trust society, but it would hardly make us an anomaly.

    Every government in living memory has passed controversial legislation on policing measures for public gatherings. The hysteria is absurdly disproportionate.
    I dont think the voting measures are necessary for the purported problems they address, so I think the motivation behind them is suspect. However it is true that voter ID occurs in 'good' nations and critics go too far about how awful it is unless they genuinely think those places are also Trumpite.

    The police powers stuff is more worrisome. Most governments at some point seem to seek to increase powers in such areas, but the recent stuff seems particularly bad.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    The bullying & sense of entitlement of Stonewall appears to know no bounds.

    The @EHRC & @EHRCChair are insisting on balancing everyone's rights, including the rights of women & LGB people.

    Hold firm. You enjoy huge support.


    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1492029901708447744?s=20&t=CsScW1ZzbBeOe2-NcgqJqg

    I don't mind reasoned debate on this topic but unfortunately there are massive amounts of vile, poisonous, comments from all quarters.

    And, worse, childish throwaway 'jokes' which aren't remotely funny, combined with pernicious phobic remarks. This forum is sadly not immune from them.
    This forum is largely composed of childish jokes. This saves it from becomes a screaming match. Sometimes.
    .
    No I'm afraid some of the phobic jokes reveal a very nasty underbelly and there are some topics about which you don't joke.

    As Jimmy Carr has discovered.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Heathener said:

    People talk about the serial failure Andy Burnham as a future Labour leader.

    Might the person not come from London ... ;)

    I'm not being wholly serious as he seems to annoy some people (Islamophobia?) but Sadiq has risen hugely in my estimation.

    That bracketed slur really demeans you, as does your detection of transphobia where none exists. It is patronising racism to pretend to believe that Khan is incapable of annoying people in his own right.

    It looks very much as if he has tried to pull off a strong man coup for once in his life, screwed up and made himself look even weaker than he did.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Reasonable GDP figures today. I had December pencilled in at -0.5% but the non consumer services economy saw almost no drop off at all from Omicron. If we'd had a "normal" December wrt consumer facing services December would have come in at +0.4%.

    On the above/below the pre-covid GDP we're just about above but due to a quirk of statistics the reports today will say we're just below.

    Our next quarter is currently forecast at ~ +1.4%, the year at ~3.5% which is much lower than the consensus view of ~4.5%, hopefully we're wrong!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    People talk about the serial failure Andy Burnham as a future Labour leader.

    Might the person not come from London ... ;)

    I'm not being wholly serious as he seems to annoy some people (Islamophobia?) but Sadiq has risen hugely in my estimation.

    That bracketed slur really demeans you
    Oh not at all.

    Lots of people, including some on here, would not want a Muslim PM. And you only have to read around forums to see how much vent there is against him precisely because he's a Muslim.

    You're right: I shouldn't have bracketed it. It's blatantly true. Sadly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited February 2022
    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound herself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, she hasn't properly done her research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    If Putin goes beyond Ukraine
    He won't.

    Not unless Johnson and Truss keep poking the bear enough to get what they want: an invasion.

    Nothing would suit Boris Johnson better than for Russia to invade.
    Nonsense. People are concerned he's a liar and not competent, that concern remains of a war breaks out nearby.

    The 'poking the bear' comment suggests it would be their fault if there was an invasion rather than the invaders fault.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    What fresh hell awaits us today!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    kle4 said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    If Putin goes beyond Ukraine
    He won't.

    Not unless Johnson and Truss keep poking the bear enough to get what they want: an invasion.

    Nothing would suit Boris Johnson better than for Russia to invade.

    The 'poking the bear' comment suggests it would be their fault if there was an invasion rather than the invaders fault.
    I'm being slightly playful but I do think they are deliberately winding up Russia, and the media, for motives that have very little to do with the Ukraine situation itself.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    The Fairliered guide to senior police officers.
    White shirt - good officer. Respects the role and the public.
    Black shirt - poor officer. In favour of aggressive policing.
    Black baseball cap. Wannabe SAS. Shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the police.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Khan shows the value of being the first to be decisive. Those who dislike him wont forget their dislike, but even from many of them he will get some praise for acting where others did not.
  • Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound himself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, he hasn't properly done his research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    Just Google ‘the international mystery of the hum’ and we can all stick it to/rip off the man.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,634

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    Part of the problem, of course. I have no doubt that many of the homophobic etc officers are physical;y brave and, where homophobia isn't an issue, competent.
    I listened to the interview, and it was very much a 'just a few bad apples' argument.
    And on what basis can you claim that 99% of officers are brave, or good, or even competent ?
    It's just rhetorical bullshit.

    How can you even begin to reform an organisation if you start out with those assumptions ?
    How many bad apples does it take to keep a guy known as “The Rapist” in the force, in a specialist armed unit at that, until one day he uses his badge to abduct, rape and kill a random member of the public?

    That’s not one bad apple, thats a rotten orchard.

    Three more rapes have been in court in recent months too.
    Wayne Couzens was nicknamed "the rapist" in his previous job, not in the Metropolitan Police. It may have been a failure of vetting on his recruitment but once he was in the Met, it is hard to see how they could have dismissed him for having a nickname they did not know about. Should using prostitutes be held against him?
    Yes, the problem is not just the Met, it is pretty universal in UK forces, just gets more attention in London. Indeed, plenty of evidence of similar or worse in other countries Police forces too.

    To an extent it is intrinsic to the nature of policing. The job is to control, and physically interdict those society considers deviants and is attractive to people who rather relish that power.



  • The Fairliered guide to senior police officers.
    White shirt - good officer. Respects the role and the public.
    Black shirt - poor officer. In favour of aggressive policing.
    Black baseball cap. Wannabe SAS. Shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the police.

    Brown shirt...?
  • Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound herself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, she hasn't properly done her research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    Havana syndrome perhaps?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,583

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    Part of the problem, of course. I have no doubt that many of the homophobic etc officers are physical;y brave and, where homophobia isn't an issue, competent.
    I listened to the interview, and it was very much a 'just a few bad apples' argument.
    And on what basis can you claim that 99% of officers are brave, or good, or even competent ?
    It's just rhetorical bullshit.

    How can you even begin to reform an organisation if you start out with those assumptions ?
    How many bad apples does it take to keep a guy known as “The Rapist” in the force, in a specialist armed unit at that, until one day he uses his badge to abduct, rape and kill a random member of the public?

    That’s not one bad apple, thats a rotten orchard.

    Three more rapes have been in court in recent months too.
    Wayne Couzens was nicknamed "the rapist" in his previous job, not in the Metropolitan Police. It may have been a failure of vetting on his recruitment but once he was in the Met, it is hard to see how they could have dismissed him for having a nickname they did not know about. Should using prostitutes be held against him?
    Yes, a big failure of vetting in the first place, especially given that he was on the diplomatic protection squad armed unit - but the judge was also scathing about a failure of the system to monitor him, as he quite clearly descended into mental illness.

    Behaviour such as use of prostitutes, should absolutely have been noted by the force. If he can’t be honest with his own wife…
  • What I said earlier:


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    19m
    The small problem with this defence is we weren't allowed to attend parties in either our home or our workplace.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1492054224741482509
  • Wow! Imagine working from home! I wonder how many “unique situations” there were across the last two years?

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson will appoint his own private lawyer if he receives a questionnaire from the police over alleged breaches of lockdown rules

    The lawyer will focus on his ‘unique’ legal situation - that No 10 is both his home and workplace


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1492046414821605381?s=20&t=Fh-hAI6eJ2oeo6n4-NFJ0Q
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound himself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, he hasn't properly done his research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    Just Google ‘the international mystery of the hum’ and we can all stick it to/rip off the man.
    As Leon said it has been a topic for donkeys' years. Nothing original or new in it. I can remember reading about it more than 20 years ago and BBC have at various times done pieces on it. YouTube have loads of clips.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    The bullying & sense of entitlement of Stonewall appears to know no bounds.

    The @EHRC & @EHRCChair are insisting on balancing everyone's rights, including the rights of women & LGB people.

    Hold firm. You enjoy huge support.


    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1492029901708447744?s=20&t=CsScW1ZzbBeOe2-NcgqJqg

    I don't mind reasoned debate on this topic but unfortunately there are massive amounts of vile, poisonous, comments from all quarters.

    And, worse, childish throwaway 'jokes' which aren't remotely funny, combined with pernicious phobic remarks. This forum is sadly not immune from them.
    This forum is largely composed of childish jokes. This saves it from becomes a screaming match. Sometimes.
    .
    No I'm afraid some of the phobic jokes reveal a very nasty underbelly and there are some topics about which you don't joke.

    As Jimmy Carr has discovered.
    Carr knew perfectly well that in his line of comedy someday there would be arbitrary outrage at something he said. I doubt hes learned some things dont get joked about when the rape and pedophilia stuff provokes no outrage.

    I choose not to joke about some stuff and just because something is offensive does not automatically make it funny, but everything is potentially able to be joked about. Yes everything.

    Your declaring otherwise just makes me want to watch his show right now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    People talk about the serial failure Andy Burnham as a future Labour leader.

    Might the person not come from London ... ;)

    I'm not being wholly serious as he seems to annoy some people (Islamophobia?) but Sadiq has risen hugely in my estimation.

    Labour won London comfortably even in 2019. It is not Khan's London they need to win back seats in but the North and redwall, seats like Burnham's old seat of Leigh which now has a Tory MP.

    Burnham is far more likely to appeal to the redwall and Northern marginal seats than Starmer let alone Khan, if Labour fail to win a majority at the next general election
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,634
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    Part of the problem, of course. I have no doubt that many of the homophobic etc officers are physical;y brave and, where homophobia isn't an issue, competent.
    I listened to the interview, and it was very much a 'just a few bad apples' argument.
    And on what basis can you claim that 99% of officers are brave, or good, or even competent ?
    It's just rhetorical bullshit.

    How can you even begin to reform an organisation if you start out with those assumptions ?
    How many bad apples does it take to keep a guy known as “The Rapist” in the force, in a specialist armed unit at that, until one day he uses his badge to abduct, rape and kill a random member of the public?

    That’s not one bad apple, thats a rotten orchard.

    Three more rapes have been in court in recent months too.
    Wayne Couzens was nicknamed "the rapist" in his previous job, not in the Metropolitan Police. It may have been a failure of vetting on his recruitment but once he was in the Met, it is hard to see how they could have dismissed him for having a nickname they did not know about. Should using prostitutes be held against him?
    Yes, a big failure of vetting in the first place, especially given that he was on the diplomatic protection squad armed unit - but the judge was also scathing about a failure of the system to monitor him, as he quite clearly descended into mental illness.

    Behaviour such as use of prostitutes, should absolutely have been noted by the force. If he can’t be honest with his own wife…
    Hmm. Any other prominent people who can't be trusted because of long history of marital infidelity? 🤔
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    Bigger does not always mean better - Police Scotland hasnt exactly been a roaring success I believe.

    Same politicisation impact there, these organisations just become tools aping the politician's. More interested in being "PC" than solving crimes.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    kle4 said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    The bullying & sense of entitlement of Stonewall appears to know no bounds.

    The @EHRC & @EHRCChair are insisting on balancing everyone's rights, including the rights of women & LGB people.

    Hold firm. You enjoy huge support.


    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1492029901708447744?s=20&t=CsScW1ZzbBeOe2-NcgqJqg

    I don't mind reasoned debate on this topic but unfortunately there are massive amounts of vile, poisonous, comments from all quarters.

    And, worse, childish throwaway 'jokes' which aren't remotely funny, combined with pernicious phobic remarks. This forum is sadly not immune from them.
    This forum is largely composed of childish jokes. This saves it from becomes a screaming match. Sometimes.
    .
    No I'm afraid some of the phobic jokes reveal a very nasty underbelly and there are some topics about which you don't joke.

    As Jimmy Carr has discovered.
    everything is potentially able to be joked about. Yes everything.
    No
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,583
    Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound herself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, she hasn't properly done her research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    If you want to go down a real rabbit hole, spend some time looking up Havana Syndrome, suffered by US diplomats in Cuba (and China, and Vienna, among others).
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    IshmaelZ said:

    Mr and Mrs Johnson are likely recipients of the letters. Anybody getting one had seven days to offer a “reasonable excuse” for suspected criminal behaviour. After that, a fixed penalty notice would follow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/10/cressida-dicks-resignation-means-boris-johnson-partygate-investigation/

    We could be 7 days from FPN time

    Interesting question of how police decisions are made. Normally, a decision on whether to issue an FPN would be taken by a quite junior officer (I believe the CPS doesn't need to be involved, but if I'm wrong then the same questions apply there). Clearly these cases are a bit sensitive politically. You are the officer responsible. Do you just decide, as you would for Joe Bloggs? Do you pass the buck upwards, and if so how far up does it go? So far up that it becomes a political decision rather than just based on the facts? Do you make a recommendation? What if it's known by colleagues that you support one or another political party, or have an opinion, favourable or otherwise, about Mr Johnson?

    Quite tricky. I'd be inclined for X's line manager to suggest that X reviews the evidence together with Y and Z, also junior people reporting to the same line manager, ideally with varying political opinions, and they make recommendations jointly, to be acted on by the line manager.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    The Fairliered guide to senior police officers.
    White shirt - good officer. Respects the role and the public.
    Black shirt - poor officer. In favour of aggressive policing.
    Black baseball cap. Wannabe SAS. Shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the police.

    Brown shirt...?
    Unclean police officer.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound herself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, she hasn't properly done her research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    If you want to go down a real rabbit hole, spend some time looking up Havana Syndrome, suffered by US diplomats in Cuba (and China, and Vienna, among others).
    Don't think that's so much of a rabbit hole actually.

    The hum is a curiosity but the idea of 'directed energy' generating the Havana syndrome is gaining plausible traction. This from last week:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60237839?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

  • Heathener said:

    People talk about the serial failure Andy Burnham as a future Labour leader.

    Might the person not come from London ... ;)

    I'm not being wholly serious as he seems to annoy some people (Islamophobia?) but Sadiq has risen hugely in my estimation.

    Khan is utterly hopeless and why you should bring islamophobia into it is beyond me

    He should have done this a long time ago
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/policeuk/

    Serving officers seem overwhelmingly pro Dick and anti Khan, who is attracting accusations of opportunism from lots of quarters this morning
    He is being utterly opportunistic. He should have acted much much earlier than now. Why did racism and homophobia at one police station cause him to act when the Met Commissioner's obstruction of justice in the Morgan case did not? The fact that he has finally done something shows that he too does not really get it it and will likely not apply the consistent pressure and oversight needed over the years it will take to effect real improvement.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Andy_JS said:

    "The tragedy of Boris Johnson
    He had the chance to save Britain — and squandered it
    By Aris Roussinos"

    https://unherd.com/2022/02/the-tragedy-of-boris-johnson/

    An absolutely absurd thesis, channelling the thoughts of Chairman Bannon.

    I am assuming it didn't get any less ridiculous in the final third. The third that I couldn't be bothered to read.
    That RCS found it well argued and valid is somewhat bizarre.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,583
    kle4 said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    The bullying & sense of entitlement of Stonewall appears to know no bounds.

    The @EHRC & @EHRCChair are insisting on balancing everyone's rights, including the rights of women & LGB people.

    Hold firm. You enjoy huge support.


    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1492029901708447744?s=20&t=CsScW1ZzbBeOe2-NcgqJqg

    I don't mind reasoned debate on this topic but unfortunately there are massive amounts of vile, poisonous, comments from all quarters.

    And, worse, childish throwaway 'jokes' which aren't remotely funny, combined with pernicious phobic remarks. This forum is sadly not immune from them.
    This forum is largely composed of childish jokes. This saves it from becomes a screaming match. Sometimes.
    .
    No I'm afraid some of the phobic jokes reveal a very nasty underbelly and there are some topics about which you don't joke.

    As Jimmy Carr has discovered.
    Carr knew perfectly well that in his line of comedy someday there would be arbitrary outrage at something he said. I doubt hes learned some things dont get joked about when the rape and pedophilia stuff provokes no outrage.

    I choose not to joke about some stuff and just because something is offensive does not automatically make it funny, but everything is potentially able to be joked about. Yes everything.

    Your declaring otherwise just makes me want to watch his show right now.
    As with Dave Chapelle, most of the outrage against Carr is coming from people who didn’t watch the show.

    Some of them might have seen a heavily edited cut, removed of all the context, but not the full bit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    The B-52H can't be used in contested airspace - easy pickings for the Su-30SM/Adder combo - so what are they for? Getting air supremacy over Ukraine/Russia involves starting WW3...
    What they've been for since the 80s - carrying stand off weapons to the release points.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    Part of the problem, of course. I have no doubt that many of the homophobic etc officers are physical;y brave and, where homophobia isn't an issue, competent.
    I listened to the interview, and it was very much a 'just a few bad apples' argument.
    And on what basis can you claim that 99% of officers are brave, or good, or even competent ?
    It's just rhetorical bullshit.

    How can you even begin to reform an organisation if you start out with those assumptions ?
    How many bad apples does it take to keep a guy known as “The Rapist” in the force, in a specialist armed unit at that, until one day he uses his badge to abduct, rape and kill a random member of the public?

    That’s not one bad apple, thats a rotten orchard.

    Three more rapes have been in court in recent months too.
    Wayne Couzens was nicknamed "the rapist" in his previous job, not in the Metropolitan Police. It may have been a failure of vetting on his recruitment but once he was in the Met, it is hard to see how they could have dismissed him for having a nickname they did not know about. Should using prostitutes be held against him?
    Yes, the problem is not just the Met, it is pretty universal in UK forces, just gets more attention in London. Indeed, plenty of evidence of similar or worse in other countries Police forces too.

    To an extent it is intrinsic to the nature of policing. The job is to control, and physically interdict those society considers deviants and is attractive to people who rather relish that power.



    Which is why you need effective training, professionalism, a good culture and strong leadership to ensure that that power does not get abused.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    People talk about the serial failure Andy Burnham as a future Labour leader.

    Might the person not come from London ... ;)

    I'm not being wholly serious as he seems to annoy some people (Islamophobia?) but Sadiq has risen hugely in my estimation.

    why you should bring islamophobia into it is beyond me
    You only have to look at comments on Order-Order to realise how much of the opprobrium is for Islamaphobic reasons.

    Like you, I wish it weren't so. But sadly it is.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound himself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, he hasn't properly done his research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    Just Google ‘the international mystery of the hum’ and we can all stick it to/rip off the man.
    As Leon said it has been a topic for donkeys' years. Nothing original or new in it. I can remember reading about it more than 20 years ago and BBC have at various times done pieces on it. YouTube have loads of clips.
    The writer goes to Halifax to explore The Hum - and hears it

    She missed this letter in the Times, from 1977

    Sir, Richard Foskett (letter, May 26) asks if the spring hum has vanished. The sound he refers to has been known as the hummadruz, and was even noted by William Cobbett. I encountered it near Halifax in 1977, and 15 years ago started some research into this curiously unsettling experience, which remains unexplained. In the course of research I have received and read of a considerable number of environmental “hums” — more than half seem most likely to be attributable to some technological cause and therefore a modern phenomenon.

    Yet still a reasonable number are of a more “traditional” nature — a buzzing like a swarm of insects, only without an apparent physical source, and generally heard on hot, still days. So the bucolic hummadruz is still to be heard, and its origin, perhaps frustratingly, is still to be explained.

    John Billingsley
    Hebden Bridge, W Yorks


    So people have been hearing it in Halifax, specifically, for five decades. Does that rule out hallucination? Or tinnitus?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound herself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, she hasn't properly done her research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    If you want to go down a real rabbit hole, spend some time looking up Havana Syndrome, suffered by US diplomats in Cuba (and China, and Vienna, among others).
    If nothing else, the world is definitely experiencing an intense increase in WEIRDNESS
  • HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden confirms he will not send any US troops to Ukraine if Russia invades, even to rescue any US citizens left there. He urges all Americans left in Ukraine to get out now

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60342814

    More troops, no.

    Those four B-52s that just turned up at Fairford, for ‘pre-planned exercises that have nothing to do with the Ukranian situation’ on the other hand. Maybe they came to admire the English countryside.
    If Putin goes beyond Ukraine and into a NATO nation then those B52s and the extra US and NATO troops being sent to Poland, Romania and the Baltic States would be used.

    Ukraine alone however would not lead to war, just US led economic sanctions on Russia
    The minute Russia crosses into Ukraine Biden publicly stated he would take out Nordstream pipeline and this with the German Chancellor standing beside him

    Furthermore millions of Ukraine peoples will overwhelm the EU borders and it will escalate into war as the Baltic states act to protect themselves



  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Cyclefree said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/policeuk/

    Serving officers seem overwhelmingly pro Dick and anti Khan, who is attracting accusations of opportunism from lots of quarters this morning
    He is being utterly opportunistic. He should have acted much much earlier than now. Why did racism and homophobia at one police station cause him to act when the Met Commissioner's obstruction of justice in the Morgan case did not? The fact that he has finally done something shows that he too does not really get it it and will likely not apply the consistent pressure and oversight needed over the years it will take to effect real improvement.
    The charge of opportunism against Khan does look rather weak when he has forgone so many other opportunities to act.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:


    For a moment there I was thinking, 'oh no ... not again.'

    I got as far as the name above the post before thinking the same.
    All he needs to do is throw a little bait on the water, and up come the fishies......
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Wow! Imagine working from home! I wonder how many “unique situations” there were across the last two years?

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson will appoint his own private lawyer if he receives a questionnaire from the police over alleged breaches of lockdown rules

    The lawyer will focus on his ‘unique’ legal situation - that No 10 is both his home and workplace


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1492046414821605381?s=20&t=Fh-hAI6eJ2oeo6n4-NFJ0Q

    I'm going to be smug now, because I predicted this defence a few weeks ago. Whilst lots of people were working from home, nearly all of them were doing so alone, or at most with a partner. Number Ten has to be pretty close to unique in the country in that it is simulatneously both the PM's home and a workplace that other people work in and it was able to function as a workplace throughout the period. With that combination it's not impossible that it has fallen into a gap in the regulations that could leave the PM's actions technically legal.

    Not that "technically legal" would save him politically.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited February 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    "The tragedy of Boris Johnson
    He had the chance to save Britain — and squandered it
    By Aris Roussinos"

    https://unherd.com/2022/02/the-tragedy-of-boris-johnson/

    An absolutely absurd thesis, channelling the thoughts of Chairman Bannon.

    I am assuming it didn't get any less ridiculous in the final third. The third that I couldn't be bothered to read.
    No. It basically concluded that Johnson and Trump failed because they were amateur populists and hoping that the real fascists to follow would do a better job.
  • Well, that was bizarre and annoying. browsing the internet, and the connection seems to die, but it's indicated as working. Tried the old off-and-on trick, doesn't work.

    On a whim, shift back from Firefox to Chrome, which is working. Try Firefox again, it updates and is now working.

    *sighs*

    Give me a wax tablet and stylus.
  • Wow! Imagine working from home! I wonder how many “unique situations” there were across the last two years?

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson will appoint his own private lawyer if he receives a questionnaire from the police over alleged breaches of lockdown rules

    The lawyer will focus on his ‘unique’ legal situation - that No 10 is both his home and workplace


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1492046414821605381?s=20&t=Fh-hAI6eJ2oeo6n4-NFJ0Q

    If he takes the legal route it will not be resolved quickly and does mean his mps need to act as his tenure is toxic for them
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243
    Unpopular said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The tragedy of Boris Johnson
    He had the chance to save Britain — and squandered it
    By Aris Roussinos"

    https://unherd.com/2022/02/the-tragedy-of-boris-johnson/

    That article sums up both what I love and hate about UnHerd.

    It's a generally good analysis, that is well written, and well argued, but also contains this utter horse-shit:

    As with Trump, Johnson’s political foes, the liberal establishment he had betrayed, stymied his rule with all the stunts and tricks liberalism deploys to arrest democracy, here directly imported from the imperial metropole: the fictitious parallel institutions of liberal shadow governance such as Independent Sage, the same pointless, time-consuming lawfare of Twitter barristers calling themselves defenders of the rule of law, the same mass demonstrations of fevered identity warriors stoked by the opposition press for narrow political gain. No scandal was too petty, no wild accusation of fascism or dictatorial tendencies too overblown in the liberal para-state’s mission to save democracy from the voters.

    As if Independent Sage had any role in anything, or is part of some organised conspiracy. Independent Sage was a joke: but it was a joke that went out and published forecasts, and they were wrong. And it wasn't part of any "para-state", it was simply the fact that the person with the most outlandish views is the most newsworthy.

    This throwing together of a bunch of disparate people, with nothing in common and no connection to each other, as if it were part of some global conspiracy is so absurd as to be barely believeable.

    Does the author really believe that the members of iSage were in cahoots with the identity warriors of BLM? Ridiculous and absurd.

    But what's worse is that this horse-shit distracts and devalues what is basically good analysis.

    Rant over.
    I disagree

    In passing themselves off as a quasi-government institution, drawing on the brand name (and undermining them with the implication that they were not independent) they were trying to aggregate - successfully - authority they didn’t deserve.

    This had the net impact of weakening the ability of the government to get its message out. The media played along with it because they liked a story but that doesn’t let iSage off the hook
    I don't think we should overthink this. Academics/Scientists can be rather precious with some huge egos. The more senior they become, the more they buy into their own hype (the ones so inclined, that is). I can easily see a scenario where a bunch of people with a particular mindset coming together, thinking they're right about the course of the Pandemic and forming iSAGE to promote that (perhaps, deep down, for some of them, because they weren't on SAGE). Essentially, iSAGE was just a public taste of University politics.

    I don't think it was about passing themselves off a semi-governmental organisation, just standard self-aggrandisement with a dash of 'I know more than these other idiots'.
    It’s the passing off with the branding that is designed to cause confusion
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    edited February 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally, I know La Truss was trying to make herself look Thatcher-like with her fur hat etc.

    But to me she looks like a jilted estate agent's wife investigating a murder on one of those ITV3 shows.

    Oh dear - why so bitch? Does that pass for political comment these days? Can we all join in now? Any woman in any party?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    One Dick down, one still to go?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    edited February 2022
    eek said:



    And the public are irrational. Custody suites are being centralised in County Durham in a scheme designed to save millions up front (everywhere needs to be improved) and save money year on year. Yet the locals protested because someone said custody suites need to be local (even though it doesn't actually work).

    There are any number of armchair police who Know What Should Be Done. Locally the police want to supplement their other contact options by having a roving "Reporting van", which will visit each locality on specified days and welcome people coming to report regular problems in that locatiy. Given the near-disappearance of fixed police stations (because they tie down officers sitting around all day with almost nobody physically crossing town to visit them), this gives quite a good option for scattered communities. Reaction from councillors generally negative - "They should be on the beat! It's just PR!"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/policeuk/

    Serving officers seem overwhelmingly pro Dick and anti Khan, who is attracting accusations of opportunism from lots of quarters this morning
    The question is does the buck stop with Dick or with Khan. He is the PCC and it all happened under his watch also.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    A recording of the Hum - or the Hummadruz - in Taos, New Mexico

    It starts off relatively inoffensive, but - as the FT writer notes - the longer it goes on the more it drills into your head, until it becomes seriously and eerily disquieting. If I heard this all the time I'd go nuts (OK, even more nuts)



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXUOLHp54w

    Low level infrasonic sounds have been blamed for the fear induced by "ghosts" - because big cat predators supposedly emit an identical infrasonic growl just as they attack, and they do this so as to paralyse their pray with nameless dread. We have inherited the dread of this low edge-of-perception growling sound, so that is why similar sounds give us the creeps - or make us see ghosts.

    So the theory goes
  • Cyclefree said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    The next Commissioner of the Met will be recommended by the Home Secretary. Given Ms Patel's record in office is anyone seriously expecting the selection of a policing genius?

    We need Sam Vimes. We are more likely to get the Keystone Cops.

    In consultation with Khan, which will be an interesting process. Note this has apparently come as a complete surprise to Patel, so it's unlikely she has anyone pencilled in ?
    It's possible they might pick someone really good by accident, but I'm not holding my breath.
    According someone on the World Service news earlier it was a bit of a surprise to Khan as well.

    @BasJavidMPS as replacement would be a laugh.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/policeuk/

    Serving officers seem overwhelmingly pro Dick and anti Khan, who is attracting accusations of opportunism from lots of quarters this morning
    He is being utterly opportunistic. He should have acted much much earlier than now. Why did racism and homophobia at one police station cause him to act when the Met Commissioner's obstruction of justice in the Morgan case did not? The fact that he has finally done something shows that he too does not really get it it and will likely not apply the consistent pressure and oversight needed over the years it will take to effect real improvement.
    I do think all Police forces eventually tend towards corruption and rotten behaviour unless there is an effective system holding them to account. Bad Police get exposed by a rigorous criminal justice system which we do not have at present due to the woeful underfunding of the courts, probation service, CPS and particularly criminal defence. That is the real way to fix the problem as to her great credit Maggie did with the Police and Criminal Evidence act in the early 80s.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243
    edited February 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 Scoop from @EleniCourea: Boris Johnson risks wrath of MPs by restarting trade talks with China that have been on ice for years https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-uk-china-trade-economy/

    With only trade deals with minnows to show, where do you go ?

    It could be a new song.
    Trying to give China an alternative to cosying up with Russia
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Applicant said:

    Wow! Imagine working from home! I wonder how many “unique situations” there were across the last two years?

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson will appoint his own private lawyer if he receives a questionnaire from the police over alleged breaches of lockdown rules

    The lawyer will focus on his ‘unique’ legal situation - that No 10 is both his home and workplace


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1492046414821605381?s=20&t=Fh-hAI6eJ2oeo6n4-NFJ0Q

    I'm going to be smug now, because I predicted this defence a few weeks ago. Whilst lots of people were working from home, nearly all of them were doing so alone, or at most with a partner. Number Ten has to be pretty close to unique in the country in that it is simulatneously both the PM's home and a workplace that other people work in and it was able to function as a workplace throughout the period. With that combination it's not impossible that it has fallen into a gap in the regulations that could leave the PM's actions technically legal.

    Not that "technically legal" would save him politically.
    It might well save him politically (after all who else ties the factions that Bozo created within the Parliamentary Tory Party together as well as Bozo does) but it won't save him morally.

    And it's the moral side of things that may have an impact in polling and the next General Election.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound herself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, she hasn't properly done her research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    How much does a subscription to Conspiracy & Mysteries Monthly cost nowadays?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    .

    Boris Johnson returning to the kowtowing complacency of Cameron and May on China would be a serious and obviously stupid retrograde step.

    Huawei Harri's appointment does nothing to suggest otherwise.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 Scoop from @EleniCourea: Boris Johnson risks wrath of MPs by restarting trade talks with China that have been on ice for years https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-uk-china-trade-economy/

    Huawei Hari gets to work
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,634
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    Part of the problem, of course. I have no doubt that many of the homophobic etc officers are physical;y brave and, where homophobia isn't an issue, competent.
    I listened to the interview, and it was very much a 'just a few bad apples' argument.
    And on what basis can you claim that 99% of officers are brave, or good, or even competent ?
    It's just rhetorical bullshit.

    How can you even begin to reform an organisation if you start out with those assumptions ?
    How many bad apples does it take to keep a guy known as “The Rapist” in the force, in a specialist armed unit at that, until one day he uses his badge to abduct, rape and kill a random member of the public?

    That’s not one bad apple, thats a rotten orchard.

    Three more rapes have been in court in recent months too.
    Wayne Couzens was nicknamed "the rapist" in his previous job, not in the Metropolitan Police. It may have been a failure of vetting on his recruitment but once he was in the Met, it is hard to see how they could have dismissed him for having a nickname they did not know about. Should using prostitutes be held against him?
    Yes, the problem is not just the Met, it is pretty universal in UK forces, just gets more attention in London. Indeed, plenty of evidence of similar or worse in other countries Police forces too.

    To an extent it is intrinsic to the nature of policing. The job is to control, and physically interdict those society considers deviants and is attractive to people who rather relish that power.



    Which is why you need effective training, professionalism, a good culture and strong leadership to ensure that that power does not get abused.
    Yes, in my business too. Otherwise you get the sort of abuse of power seen in "This is Going to Hurt" the other night. I thought it appalling and misogynistic, and am horrified by some of the applause on medical twitter.

    If maternity units are really like that, then no wonder we have repeated scandals in Nottingham, Shropshire, Morecombe, Essex etc.

    Any job where people have power over others has an attraction for those who enjoy that power, and for those weaker souls that enable or accept it. It needs to be actively called out, and those who do so to be supported.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Heathener said:

    kle4 said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    The bullying & sense of entitlement of Stonewall appears to know no bounds.

    The @EHRC & @EHRCChair are insisting on balancing everyone's rights, including the rights of women & LGB people.

    Hold firm. You enjoy huge support.


    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1492029901708447744?s=20&t=CsScW1ZzbBeOe2-NcgqJqg

    I don't mind reasoned debate on this topic but unfortunately there are massive amounts of vile, poisonous, comments from all quarters.

    And, worse, childish throwaway 'jokes' which aren't remotely funny, combined with pernicious phobic remarks. This forum is sadly not immune from them.
    This forum is largely composed of childish jokes. This saves it from becomes a screaming match. Sometimes.
    .
    No I'm afraid some of the phobic jokes reveal a very nasty underbelly and there are some topics about which you don't joke.

    As Jimmy Carr has discovered.
    everything is potentially able to be joked about. Yes everything.
    No
    Could you provide a comprehensive list of what's allowed?

    What about laughing at such jokes? Surely that's just as bad?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    A recording of the Hum - or the Hummadruz - in Taos, New Mexico

    It starts off relatively inoffensive, but - as the FT writer notes - the longer it goes on the more it drills into your head, until it becomes seriously and eerily disquieting. If I heard this all the time I'd go nuts (OK, even more nuts)



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXUOLHp54w

    Low level infrasonic sounds have been blamed for the fear induced by "ghosts" - because big cat predators supposedly emit an identical infrasonic growl just as they attack, and they do this so as to paralyse their pray with nameless dread. We have inherited the dread of this low edge-of-perception growling sound, so that is why similar sounds give us the creeps - or make us see ghosts.

    So the theory goes

    Why do I suspect a future S. K. Tremayne novel is going to have an random, unexplainable hum as a major plot element?

    Don't treat this as sarcasm, I think it would fit the mood of those novels rather well
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound herself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, she hasn't properly done her research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    How much does a subscription to Conspiracy & Mysteries Monthly cost nowadays?
    You mean The Fortean Times? About £30 a year I think. And a bargain. What a brilliant magazine
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    Part of the problem, of course. I have no doubt that many of the homophobic etc officers are physical;y brave and, where homophobia isn't an issue, competent.
    I listened to the interview, and it was very much a 'just a few bad apples' argument.
    And on what basis can you claim that 99% of officers are brave, or good, or even competent ?
    It's just rhetorical bullshit.

    How can you even begin to reform an organisation if you start out with those assumptions ?
    How many bad apples does it take to keep a guy known as “The Rapist” in the force, in a specialist armed unit at that, until one day he uses his badge to abduct, rape and kill a random member of the public?

    That’s not one bad apple, thats a rotten orchard.

    Three more rapes have been in court in recent months too.
    Wayne Couzens was nicknamed "the rapist" in his previous job, not in the Metropolitan Police. It may have been a failure of vetting on his recruitment but once he was in the Met, it is hard to see how they could have dismissed him for having a nickname they did not know about. Should using prostitutes be held against him?
    Yes, the problem is not just the Met, it is pretty universal in UK forces, just gets more attention in London. Indeed, plenty of evidence of similar or worse in other countries Police forces too.

    To an extent it is intrinsic to the nature of policing. The job is to control, and physically interdict those society considers deviants and is attractive to people who rather relish that power.



    Which is why you need effective training, professionalism, a good culture and strong leadership to ensure that that power does not get abused.
    - effective training

    To be fair, the training for de-escalation of street level incidents seems to be effective. It is rather telling that you see a fair number of Youtube videos of UK police with people from the US saying "Like this, please".

    Onto....

    - professionalism
    - a good culture
    - strong leadership

    Why are you so violently anti-police? All of those are incompatible with Proper Policing. "Leadership" is particular is redolent of responsibility and accountability - both of which are antithetic to Modern Policing.
  • Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    People talk about the serial failure Andy Burnham as a future Labour leader.

    Might the person not come from London ... ;)

    I'm not being wholly serious as he seems to annoy some people (Islamophobia?) but Sadiq has risen hugely in my estimation.

    why you should bring islamophobia into it is beyond me
    You only have to look at comments on Order-Order to realise how much of the opprobrium is for Islamaphobic reasons.

    Like you, I wish it weren't so. But sadly it is.
    The vast majority of people would not even have thought of it but you bring it into the argument which was unnecessary

    Khan has been a very poor mayor and he should have acted earlier, as seems to be the opinion in the media
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    A recording of the Hum - or the Hummadruz - in Taos, New Mexico

    It starts off relatively inoffensive, but - as the FT writer notes - the longer it goes on the more it drills into your head, until it becomes seriously and eerily disquieting. If I heard this all the time I'd go nuts (OK, even more nuts)



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXUOLHp54w

    Low level infrasonic sounds have been blamed for the fear induced by "ghosts" - because big cat predators supposedly emit an identical infrasonic growl just as they attack, and they do this so as to paralyse their pray with nameless dread. We have inherited the dread of this low edge-of-perception growling sound, so that is why similar sounds give us the creeps - or make us see ghosts.

    So the theory goes

    Yes I have heard that theory. It is certainly compelling.

    The other thing I would like to know is why, when one listens to or reads about accounts of Poltergeists (the good podcast "Uncanny" deals with such phenomena, by the same person I think who made The Battersea Poltergeist) why there never seem to be any actual injuries to the witnesses amidst all the knives, forks and plates being flung around the room.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243

    What fresh hell awaits us today!

    You think you deserve fresh hell?

    No! You’re getting yesterday’s leftover hell which has curdled nicely overnight!
  • felix said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally, I know La Truss was trying to make herself look Thatcher-like with her fur hat etc.

    But to me she looks like a jilted estate agent's wife investigating a murder on one of those ITV3 shows.

    Oh dear - why so bitch? Does that pass for political comment these days? Can we all join in now? Any woman in any party?
    The evidence would suggest that yes, we can all join in, any woman in any party.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    kle4 said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    The bullying & sense of entitlement of Stonewall appears to know no bounds.

    The @EHRC & @EHRCChair are insisting on balancing everyone's rights, including the rights of women & LGB people.

    Hold firm. You enjoy huge support.


    https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1492029901708447744?s=20&t=CsScW1ZzbBeOe2-NcgqJqg

    I don't mind reasoned debate on this topic but unfortunately there are massive amounts of vile, poisonous, comments from all quarters.

    And, worse, childish throwaway 'jokes' which aren't remotely funny, combined with pernicious phobic remarks. This forum is sadly not immune from them.
    This forum is largely composed of childish jokes. This saves it from becomes a screaming match. Sometimes.
    .
    No I'm afraid some of the phobic jokes reveal a very nasty underbelly and there are some topics about which you don't joke.

    As Jimmy Carr has discovered.
    everything is potentially able to be joked about. Yes everything.
    No
    Could you provide a comprehensive list of what's allowed?

    What about laughing at such jokes? Surely that's just as bad?
    Could you please ban yourself forthwith if you find this observation by Germaine Greer at all funny

    “Just because you lop off your d**k and then wear a dress doesn’t make you a f***ing woman.

    “I’ve asked my doctor to give me long ears and liver spots and I’m going to wear a brown coat but that doesn’t turn me into a f***ing cocker spaniel.”
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound herself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, she hasn't properly done her research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    How much does a subscription to Conspiracy & Mysteries Monthly cost nowadays?
    I have experience not of it but of people in a robustly rural, agricultural, no nonsense community saying exactly the same thing. They call it "The [Village] Hum". No one can place where it is. It is in all likelihood a power generator on a quiet, still night but no one quite knows.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited February 2022

    Joining PCs could probably do with a decent pay rise as well......

    £30k+ starting salary, free travel throughout London area 7 days a week, fully funded degree, career average not defined contribution pension.

    Expected to reach £48k salary in 7 years without promotion above Constable rank.

    Sounds alright as it is to me.

    https://www.met.police.uk/car/careers/met/police-officer-roles/police-constable/overview/benefits-and-rewards/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Leon said:

    A really fascinating article about a mysterious phenomenon known as The Hum. A low, persistent throbbing or droning sound, in the background, heard in certain places, by certain people - and with no obvious origin. Sometimes it can be so bad it can send people half mad, or force them to move

    Unfortunately it is in the FT so paywall

    https://www.ft.com/content/69d94162-8580-4001-96ea-42675739d483

    Enjoyably, the writer approaches it as a skeptic, cannot hear the sound herself, but then DOES hear it, and finds it really quite unsettling

    However as the commenters below have noted, she hasn't properly done her research. There is an associated (identical?) phenomenon known as The Hummadruz which has been recorded since at least Victorian times, if not before, and often in deep rural locations - thus ruling out the "engine or factory noise" explanation which is posited by many

    http://www.exploringtheuncanny.com/hummadruz/

    So what is it? Auditory hallucination? Mere tinnitus? Infrasound? A mixture? A vile prank by Second Vote Remoaners?

    A pleasant mystery

    I am not sure if I should be saying but you can still read paywalled FT articles by googling on FT and the headline.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    A recording of the Hum - or the Hummadruz - in Taos, New Mexico

    It starts off relatively inoffensive, but - as the FT writer notes - the longer it goes on the more it drills into your head, until it becomes seriously and eerily disquieting. If I heard this all the time I'd go nuts (OK, even more nuts)



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXUOLHp54w

    Low level infrasonic sounds have been blamed for the fear induced by "ghosts" - because big cat predators supposedly emit an identical infrasonic growl just as they attack, and they do this so as to paralyse their pray with nameless dread. We have inherited the dread of this low edge-of-perception growling sound, so that is why similar sounds give us the creeps - or make us see ghosts.

    So the theory goes

    Why do I suspect a future S. K. Tremayne novel is going to have an random, unexplainable hum as a major plot element?

    Don't treat this as sarcasm, I think it would fit the mood of those novels rather well
    You mean in a old isolated farmhouse on the Herefordshire/Welsh border, near, say, Craswall, where a woman goes to help her brother, after the childrens' mother dies, and the kids start to see and hear things, and then the father also shows signs of being haunted, but won't admit it?

    And this weird hum permeates the building, but is only discernible to a few?

    If I ever bump into Miss Tremayne, I shall pop this idea in her head
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent header, Cyclefree. I suspect you have this ready to go for some time ?

    As far as external stakeholders who put and keep sustained pressure on it to make that change; and... goes, we've already had the Chair of the London Assembly Police and Crime Committee on R4 this morning criticising the decision to terminate Dick, and claiming that '99% of officers are brave and good'...
    Not a great start.

    Part of the problem, of course. I have no doubt that many of the homophobic etc officers are physical;y brave and, where homophobia isn't an issue, competent.
    I listened to the interview, and it was very much a 'just a few bad apples' argument.
    And on what basis can you claim that 99% of officers are brave, or good, or even competent ?
    It's just rhetorical bullshit.

    How can you even begin to reform an organisation if you start out with those assumptions ?
    How many bad apples does it take to keep a guy known as “The Rapist” in the force, in a specialist armed unit at that, until one day he uses his badge to abduct, rape and kill a random member of the public?

    That’s not one bad apple, thats a rotten orchard.

    Three more rapes have been in court in recent months too.
    Wayne Couzens was nicknamed "the rapist" in his previous job, not in the Metropolitan Police. It may have been a failure of vetting on his recruitment but once he was in the Met, it is hard to see how they could have dismissed him for having a nickname they did not know about. Should using prostitutes be held against him?
    Yes, the problem is not just the Met, it is pretty universal in UK forces, just gets more attention in London. Indeed, plenty of evidence of similar or worse in other countries Police forces too.

    To an extent it is intrinsic to the nature of policing. The job is to control, and physically interdict those society considers deviants and is attractive to people who rather relish that power.



    Which is why you need effective training, professionalism, a good culture and strong leadership to ensure that that power does not get abused.
    Yes, in my business too. Otherwise you get the sort of abuse of power seen in "This is Going to Hurt" the other night. I thought it appalling and misogynistic, and am horrified by some of the applause on medical twitter.

    If maternity units are really like that, then no wonder we have repeated scandals in Nottingham, Shropshire, Morecombe, Essex etc.

    Any job where people have power over others has an attraction for those who enjoy that power, and for those weaker souls that enable or accept it. It needs to be actively called out, and those who do so to be supported.
    Though that programme was absurd. Do Doctors really treat each other like that?

    I quit a job because the culture was toxic, but it was nothing on that.
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Boris Johnson returning to the kowtowing complacency of Cameron and May on China would be a serious and obviously stupid retrograde step.

    Huawei Harri's appointment does nothing to suggest otherwise.
    The schtick around Harri was all seasoned operator, knows his stuff, will steady the ship. Actually I'm getting a grandad doesn't know how to work the remote vibe.




  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Leon said:

    A recording of the Hum - or the Hummadruz - in Taos, New Mexico

    It starts off relatively inoffensive, but - as the FT writer notes - the longer it goes on the more it drills into your head, until it becomes seriously and eerily disquieting. If I heard this all the time I'd go nuts (OK, even more nuts)



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXUOLHp54w

    Low level infrasonic sounds have been blamed for the fear induced by "ghosts" - because big cat predators supposedly emit an identical infrasonic growl just as they attack, and they do this so as to paralyse their pray with nameless dread. We have inherited the dread of this low edge-of-perception growling sound, so that is why similar sounds give us the creeps - or make us see ghosts.

    So the theory goes

    ALIENS
  • eek said:

    Applicant said:

    Wow! Imagine working from home! I wonder how many “unique situations” there were across the last two years?

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson will appoint his own private lawyer if he receives a questionnaire from the police over alleged breaches of lockdown rules

    The lawyer will focus on his ‘unique’ legal situation - that No 10 is both his home and workplace


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1492046414821605381?s=20&t=Fh-hAI6eJ2oeo6n4-NFJ0Q

    I'm going to be smug now, because I predicted this defence a few weeks ago. Whilst lots of people were working from home, nearly all of them were doing so alone, or at most with a partner. Number Ten has to be pretty close to unique in the country in that it is simulatneously both the PM's home and a workplace that other people work in and it was able to function as a workplace throughout the period. With that combination it's not impossible that it has fallen into a gap in the regulations that could leave the PM's actions technically legal.

    Not that "technically legal" would save him politically.
    It might well save him politically (after all who else ties the factions that Bozo created within the Parliamentary Tory Party together as well as Bozo does) but it won't save him morally.

    And it's the moral side of things that may have an impact in polling and the next General Election.
    Though that puts the day of reckoning off until 2023/4.

    And by Bozza's standards, that's quite a long-term win.
This discussion has been closed.