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Will Sunak leave the Treasury this year? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    While everyone says that he who wields the knife never gets the crown it's worth remembering that wasn't the case last time. Boris helped wield the knife, repeatedly, versus Theresa May and got the crown and an eighty seat majority afterwards.

    Gordon Brown effectively wielded the knife versus Tony Blair too, didn't win a majority but did get to be PM.

    Heseltine isn't the only precedence.

    May resigned, Boris did not challenge her directly, he challenged her over policy.

    Brown never resigned nor challenged Blair in a leadership election either.

    Only leader who toppled a party leader directly in a leadership challenge since WW2 was Thatcher in 1975 but only after Heath had lost the 1974 general election and refused to leave
  • HYUFD said:

    this is not bad, graphically...


    Good to see the classic material coming through. I remember Nellist from 1987 when I was LAB 👍
    Heard him speak at a debate once, he was in the original Militant tendency which Kinnock had to expel from Labour, returned to Labour under Corbyn and has now left again. He is a diehard Socialist ideologue
    Are you sure he returned to Labour? He has continued standing for Covenrry Council since he lost his seat a decade ago. He stood under the TUSC/Socialist alternative banner in Coventry's St Michael's ward in 2016, 2018, 2019 and 2021 although he only got 9% last year.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    13m

    PM plotting mini Cabinet tweak in next stage of shake-up

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1490452328377458692

    He's planning a Cabinet of mini-mes?
  • While everyone says that he who wields the knife never gets the crown it's worth remembering that wasn't the case last time. Boris helped wield the knife, repeatedly, versus Theresa May and got the crown and an eighty seat majority afterwards.

    Gordon Brown effectively wielded the knife versus Tony Blair too, didn't win a majority but did get to be PM.

    Heseltine isn't the only precedence.

    Timing is key and as I have just posted it is reasonable to assume conservative mps are giving Boris a wee bit more time and now would be foolish

  • HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Since Barbados decided not to wait for the Queen to die before becoming a republic, and given several of the caribbean nations have had political consensus to make the same changes (but inexplicably dragged their feet, like Jamaica), I wonder if any others will decide the jubilee year is as good a time as any.

    There should be a market on how many commonwealth realms there will be by the time Charles takes over. I'm going with 7-8 down from 14, losing most of the Caribbean.

    Australia next surely. Isn't it Labor party policy to have a referendum? And Scotty from Marketing is looking like a dead platypus.
    Scott Morrison still leads as preferred PM over Albanese, in my view he will be re elected. The best PM guide was more accurate than the 2PP at the last election.

    Albanese is too leftwing populist for most Australians, basically the next Mark Latham, Labor should have gone with the more centrist Tanya Pilbersek. There likely will be another referendum in Australia but not yet and certainly not with a Coalition govenment, of course the monarchists won the last one 55% to 45% in 1999
    Yes you are correct on this one HYUFD. Labor have flattered to deceive before and it will happen again. Expect a near zero swing in Aus GE 2022 and Morrison back again.
  • HYUFD said:

    While everyone says that he who wields the knife never gets the crown it's worth remembering that wasn't the case last time. Boris helped wield the knife, repeatedly, versus Theresa May and got the crown and an eighty seat majority afterwards.

    Gordon Brown effectively wielded the knife versus Tony Blair too, didn't win a majority but did get to be PM.

    Heseltine isn't the only precedence.

    May resigned, Boris did not challenge her directly, he challenged her over policy.

    Brown never resigned nor challenged Blair in a leadership election either.

    Only leader who toppled a party leader directly in a leadership challenge since WW2 was Thatcher in 1975 but only after Heath had lost the 1974 general election and refused to leave
    That May "resigned" is a mere technicality. The knife was wielded and she lost all power and had no choice but to resign ultimately. Blair too was forced out. Technically even Thatcher resigned as well, doesn't mean the knife was never wielded.

    You don't need to lose an actual vote to have a knife wielded against you, nor to be forced out.

    Indeed the better expression surely is: If you come for the king, you'd better not miss.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    this is not bad, graphically...


    Good to see the classic material coming through. I remember Nellist from 1987 when I was LAB 👍
    Heard him speak at a debate once, he was in the original Militant tendency which Kinnock had to expel from Labour, returned to Labour under Corbyn and has now left again. He is a diehard Socialist ideologue
    Are you sure he returned to Labour? He has continued standing for Covenrry Council since he lost his seat a decade ago. He stood under the TUSC/Socialist alternative banner in Coventry's St Michael's ward in 2016, 2018, 2019 and 2021 although he only got 9% last year.
    He certainly stood down TUSC candidates in the 2017 general election and urged party supporters to vote Corbyn Labour.

    He has only resumed standing TUSC candidates for Westminster against Starmer
  • Anyway time to say good night folks

    Have a restful night

  • Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    13m

    PM plotting mini Cabinet tweak in next stage of shake-up

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1490452328377458692

    He's planning a Cabinet of mini-mes?
    Or a Cabinet of homunculi like Sunak?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    tlg86 said:

    First like Senegal.

    I haven't watched the match, just checked the result but oh dear, a major final decided on penalties - in the words of Brenda from Bristol "Not another one?!"

    There has to be a better way surely...

    Run the penalty shoot-out at 90 mins then play 30 mins of extra time to give those who missed their penalties a shot (!) at redemption.

    or

    Have a count-back on corners or fouls or both ffs.
    Make them play a super-over each.

    The finest sports decider ever invented.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited February 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Levi Bellfield confesses to Lin and Megan Russell murders, lawyer says

    The man serving life for the murder of schoolgirl Millie Dowler has confessed to killing mother and daughter Lin and Megan Russell, a lawyer has said. Another man, Michael Stone, has twice been found guilty of the murders of Ms Russell and her six-year-old daughter in Kent in July 1996. His solicitor says he has now received a statement written by Levi Bellfield which details the killings. Stone was also found guilty of trying to murder Megan's sister Josie. He has always protested his innocence. His solicitor Paul Bacon says he has now received a four-page statement from Bellfield in which he claims to have carried out the attacks, including details of what he was wearing and how he made his escape."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60278013

    Not sure if I want this to turn out to be true or not. Whilst it would be good for justice to finally be served, the idea that an innocent man really did spend 25 years behind bars is just horrendous.

    And stories like this once again reinforce my arguments against the Death Penalty. This was surely a crime that would have qualified and it may turn out the man who would have been put to death was innocent.
    I just hope the right decision is eventually arrived at, whatever it is according to the evidence.
  • kle4 said:

    As I have posted before. Sunak needs to seize the day, because if he dithers now he will never get the crown.

    Why is he waiting for Johnson to sack him?

    I don't think he is necessarily as disloyal as imagined. Clearly ambitious, quite possibly taking some underhand actions, but talk of him acting or not acting sometimes seems like it is wishful thinking from people who hope he will act. To me it is far from clear that he is unhappy with things.
    Yes, there is little evidence that Rishi is plotting against Boris, even if he does hope to replace him as Prime Minister. Hoping Boris will fall is not the same as strewing banana skins in his path.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Levi Bellfield confesses to Lin and Megan Russell murders, lawyer says

    The man serving life for the murder of schoolgirl Millie Dowler has confessed to killing mother and daughter Lin and Megan Russell, a lawyer has said. Another man, Michael Stone, has twice been found guilty of the murders of Ms Russell and her six-year-old daughter in Kent in July 1996. His solicitor says he has now received a statement written by Levi Bellfield which details the killings. Stone was also found guilty of trying to murder Megan's sister Josie. He has always protested his innocence. His solicitor Paul Bacon says he has now received a four-page statement from Bellfield in which he claims to have carried out the attacks, including details of what he was wearing and how he made his escape."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60278013

    Not sure if I want this to turn out to be true or not. Whilst it would be good for justice to finally be served, the idea that an innocent man really did spend 25 years behind bars is just horrendous.

    And stories like this once again reinforce my arguments against the Death Penalty. This was surely a crime that would have qualified and it may turn out the man who would have been put to death was innocent.
    As Ms Patel so ably explained, one can always be pardoned after execution.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    edited February 2022

    Argentia has joined China's Belt and Road Initiative, and China "reaffirmed its support for Argentina's demand to fully exercise sovereignty on the Malvinas Islands".

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-02-06/China-Argentina-to-deepen-comprehensive-strategic-partnership-17qINrzqQVy/index.html

    And Argentina's claim to the Falklands has about as much validity as China's claim to the South China Sea because it has China in the title....
    Given they are now supporting annexation of British territory, I think it is about time we revoke our recognition of Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. That was another idiotic policy of David Cameron and George Osborne.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Aslan said:

    Argentia has joined China's Belt and Road Initiative, and China "reaffirmed its support for Argentina's demand to fully exercise sovereignty on the Malvinas Islands".

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-02-06/China-Argentina-to-deepen-comprehensive-strategic-partnership-17qINrzqQVy/index.html

    And Argentina's claim to the Falklands has about as much validity as China's claim to the South China Sea because it has China in the title....
    Given they are now supporting annexation of British territory, I think it is about time we revoke our recognition of Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. That was another idiotic policy of David Cameron and George Osborne.
    China is treading a rather dangerous path here, given that there happen to be two countries vying for the role of being "China". And we could always - should we wish - choose to recognise the one with the democratic government, and who has not (as far as I'm aware) chosen to ignore the right of self determination.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    looks like BJ, the greased piglet has survived another weekend, I really thought last week was looking grim for the over-sexed blond liar. Not sure the Ashcroft book has added much at all to the mix (I must admit I havent bought or read it) - Cummings may just be running out of ammo now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited February 2022
    test
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Levi Bellfield confesses to Lin and Megan Russell murders, lawyer says

    The man serving life for the murder of schoolgirl Millie Dowler has confessed to killing mother and daughter Lin and Megan Russell, a lawyer has said. Another man, Michael Stone, has twice been found guilty of the murders of Ms Russell and her six-year-old daughter in Kent in July 1996. His solicitor says he has now received a statement written by Levi Bellfield which details the killings. Stone was also found guilty of trying to murder Megan's sister Josie. He has always protested his innocence. His solicitor Paul Bacon says he has now received a four-page statement from Bellfield in which he claims to have carried out the attacks, including details of what he was wearing and how he made his escape."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60278013

    Not sure if I want this to turn out to be true or not. Whilst it would be good for justice to finally be served, the idea that an innocent man really did spend 25 years behind bars is just horrendous.

    And stories like this once again reinforce my arguments against the Death Penalty. This was surely a crime that would have qualified and it may turn out the man who would have been put to death was innocent.
    Read the Wiki entry:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stone_(criminal)

    I would be very surprised if it turned out to be Bellfield. His gf at the time says the day the Russells were attacked happened to be her birthday and she is sure Bellfield was with her all day. Furthermore, the Russells don’t match the profile of Bellfield’s other known victims (young women/girls with light coloured hair).

    Perhaps the evidence that convicted Stone was weak - a confession to another prisoner isn’t the best of evidence. But read the rest of the file. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence not considered admissible in court that pointed to it being Stone.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    this is not bad, graphically...


    Good to see the classic material coming through. I remember Nellist from 1987 when I was LAB 👍
    Wasn't he the model for Dave Spart?
    I was pretty sure Nellist was the creation of Viz or Private Eye, didn’t realise until last week that he was a real person!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Levi Bellfield confesses to Lin and Megan Russell murders, lawyer says

    The man serving life for the murder of schoolgirl Millie Dowler has confessed to killing mother and daughter Lin and Megan Russell, a lawyer has said. Another man, Michael Stone, has twice been found guilty of the murders of Ms Russell and her six-year-old daughter in Kent in July 1996. His solicitor says he has now received a statement written by Levi Bellfield which details the killings. Stone was also found guilty of trying to murder Megan's sister Josie. He has always protested his innocence. His solicitor Paul Bacon says he has now received a four-page statement from Bellfield in which he claims to have carried out the attacks, including details of what he was wearing and how he made his escape."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60278013

    Not sure if I want this to turn out to be true or not. Whilst it would be good for justice to finally be served, the idea that an innocent man really did spend 25 years behind bars is just horrendous.

    And stories like this once again reinforce my arguments against the Death Penalty. This was surely a crime that would have qualified and it may turn out the man who would have been put to death was innocent.
    Read the Wiki entry:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stone_(criminal)

    I would be very surprised if it turned out to be Bellfield. His gf at the time says the day the Russells were attacked happened to be her birthday and she is sure Bellfield was with her all day. Furthermore, the Russells don’t match the profile of Bellfield’s other known victims (young women/girls with light coloured hair).

    Perhaps the evidence that convicted Stone was weak - a confession to another prisoner isn’t the best of evidence. But read the rest of the file. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence not considered admissible in court that pointed to it being Stone.
    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited February 2022
    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Levi Bellfield confesses to Lin and Megan Russell murders, lawyer says

    The man serving life for the murder of schoolgirl Millie Dowler has confessed to killing mother and daughter Lin and Megan Russell, a lawyer has said. Another man, Michael Stone, has twice been found guilty of the murders of Ms Russell and her six-year-old daughter in Kent in July 1996. His solicitor says he has now received a statement written by Levi Bellfield which details the killings. Stone was also found guilty of trying to murder Megan's sister Josie. He has always protested his innocence. His solicitor Paul Bacon says he has now received a four-page statement from Bellfield in which he claims to have carried out the attacks, including details of what he was wearing and how he made his escape."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60278013

    Not sure if I want this to turn out to be true or not. Whilst it would be good for justice to finally be served, the idea that an innocent man really did spend 25 years behind bars is just horrendous.

    And stories like this once again reinforce my arguments against the Death Penalty. This was surely a crime that would have qualified and it may turn out the man who would have been put to death was innocent.
    Read the Wiki entry:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stone_(criminal)

    I would be very surprised if it turned out to be Bellfield. His gf at the time says the day the Russells were attacked happened to be her birthday and she is sure Bellfield was with her all day. Furthermore, the Russells don’t match the profile of Bellfield’s other known victims (young women/girls with light coloured hair).

    Perhaps the evidence that convicted Stone was weak - a confession to another prisoner isn’t the best of evidence. But read the rest of the file. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence not considered admissible in court that pointed to it being Stone.
    The Wiki entry doesn't present that much evidence for it being Stone. Nothing linked him to the crime. He was 40 miles away. The car didn't match.

    He was a violent criminal who attacked people for money to pay for a heroin habit. And he was angry. And he'd threatened violence with a hammer.

    I mean, that's not to say it wasn't him (and WIkipedia is very, very far from a court of law), but the circumstantial evidence on the page doesn't seem that strong. (Example: "At the crime scene, a fingerprint impressed in blood was found on the lid of Josie's lunch box which was inside zipped up bag and hairs were found that did not belong to any of the victims. A black bootlace that was bloodstained had been used in the attack.[19] Stone was known to use a bootlace as a tourniquet to raise the veins in his arms when injecting drugs.")

    It seems like he was a local bad'un, and therefore the spotlight found itself very quickly focused on him.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Levi Bellfield confesses to Lin and Megan Russell murders, lawyer says

    The man serving life for the murder of schoolgirl Millie Dowler has confessed to killing mother and daughter Lin and Megan Russell, a lawyer has said. Another man, Michael Stone, has twice been found guilty of the murders of Ms Russell and her six-year-old daughter in Kent in July 1996. His solicitor says he has now received a statement written by Levi Bellfield which details the killings. Stone was also found guilty of trying to murder Megan's sister Josie. He has always protested his innocence. His solicitor Paul Bacon says he has now received a four-page statement from Bellfield in which he claims to have carried out the attacks, including details of what he was wearing and how he made his escape."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60278013

    Not sure if I want this to turn out to be true or not. Whilst it would be good for justice to finally be served, the idea that an innocent man really did spend 25 years behind bars is just horrendous.

    And stories like this once again reinforce my arguments against the Death Penalty. This was surely a crime that would have qualified and it may turn out the man who would have been put to death was innocent.
    Read the Wiki entry:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stone_(criminal)

    I would be very surprised if it turned out to be Bellfield. His gf at the time says the day the Russells were attacked happened to be her birthday and she is sure Bellfield was with her all day. Furthermore, the Russells don’t match the profile of Bellfield’s other known victims (young women/girls with light coloured hair).

    Perhaps the evidence that convicted Stone was weak - a confession to another prisoner isn’t the best of evidence. But read the rest of the file. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence not considered admissible in court that pointed to it being Stone.
    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.
    The other question is “why Chillenden?” Apparently there’s a receipt that puts Stone in Chatham (40 miles away) earlier in the day, but he could have got there. And apparently Stone had spent time in a children’s home near Chillenden.

    All circumstantial, of course, but I find it hard to believe that Bellfield went there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Levi Bellfield confesses to Lin and Megan Russell murders, lawyer says

    The man serving life for the murder of schoolgirl Millie Dowler has confessed to killing mother and daughter Lin and Megan Russell, a lawyer has said. Another man, Michael Stone, has twice been found guilty of the murders of Ms Russell and her six-year-old daughter in Kent in July 1996. His solicitor says he has now received a statement written by Levi Bellfield which details the killings. Stone was also found guilty of trying to murder Megan's sister Josie. He has always protested his innocence. His solicitor Paul Bacon says he has now received a four-page statement from Bellfield in which he claims to have carried out the attacks, including details of what he was wearing and how he made his escape."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60278013

    Not sure if I want this to turn out to be true or not. Whilst it would be good for justice to finally be served, the idea that an innocent man really did spend 25 years behind bars is just horrendous.

    And stories like this once again reinforce my arguments against the Death Penalty. This was surely a crime that would have qualified and it may turn out the man who would have been put to death was innocent.
    Whether it was Stone or not, Bellfield has confessed to multiple murders he didn’t commit, including the Russell murders, in times past. He’s just a nasty human being out to draw attention to himself and hoping to make money by doing so. Particularly as with the rediscovery of missing evidence it was in the news again.

    If Stone wasn’t guilty then I agree about the miscarriage of justice, but more than that would be needed to overturn his conviction.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Levi Bellfield confesses to Lin and Megan Russell murders, lawyer says

    The man serving life for the murder of schoolgirl Millie Dowler has confessed to killing mother and daughter Lin and Megan Russell, a lawyer has said. Another man, Michael Stone, has twice been found guilty of the murders of Ms Russell and her six-year-old daughter in Kent in July 1996. His solicitor says he has now received a statement written by Levi Bellfield which details the killings. Stone was also found guilty of trying to murder Megan's sister Josie. He has always protested his innocence. His solicitor Paul Bacon says he has now received a four-page statement from Bellfield in which he claims to have carried out the attacks, including details of what he was wearing and how he made his escape."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-60278013

    Not sure if I want this to turn out to be true or not. Whilst it would be good for justice to finally be served, the idea that an innocent man really did spend 25 years behind bars is just horrendous.

    And stories like this once again reinforce my arguments against the Death Penalty. This was surely a crime that would have qualified and it may turn out the man who would have been put to death was innocent.
    Read the Wiki entry:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stone_(criminal)

    I would be very surprised if it turned out to be Bellfield. His gf at the time says the day the Russells were attacked happened to be her birthday and she is sure Bellfield was with her all day. Furthermore, the Russells don’t match the profile of Bellfield’s other known victims (young women/girls with light coloured hair).

    Perhaps the evidence that convicted Stone was weak - a confession to another prisoner isn’t the best of evidence. But read the rest of the file. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence not considered admissible in court that pointed to it being Stone.
    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.
    The other question is “why Chillenden?” Apparently there’s a receipt that puts Stone in Chatham (40 miles away) earlier in the day, but he could have got there. And apparently Stone had spent time in a children’s home near Chillenden.

    All circumstantial, of course, but I find it hard to believe that Bellfield went there.
    The Bellfield alibi looks pretty compelling.

    And, of course, Bellfield is never leaving prison, so he could just be making trouble.

    Ultimately, the only real evidence for Stone is the jailhouse confession.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Windy this morning.

    On thread (immediate) why would Bellfield confess, unless, either as Ydoethur says he's attention seeking or he actually did it?

    On topic, I fear we are seeing another example of 'greased piglet'; spread stories attacking the Chancellor to further evade responsibility for the mess the country finds itself, and the widespread (and not just in UK) contempt for our current PM.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited February 2022

    looks like BJ, the greased piglet has survived another weekend, I really thought last week was looking grim for the over-sexed blond liar. Not sure the Ashcroft book has added much at all to the mix (I must admit I havent bought or read it) - Cummings may just be running out of ammo now.

    Morning to all. Yes, as below, I think the 'greased piglet' may be escaping, yet again, at least for a little whle.

    The Heseltine factor seems to have stymied Sunak from acting at the most chaotic and opportune moments, such as straight after part of at least Gray's report was published this week, and it can't be guaranteed that Cressida won't try and help, shielding her friend from prosecution when the met's report is finally published.

    Meanwhile, Cummings seems to be hamstrung by the police investigation, which also seems to have resulted in many fewer of the game-changing and unpredictable new revelations we've come to expect, and the Prime Minister's allies are carefully building a new "betrayal" narrative against Sunak.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Morning,

    NHS backlog plan expected today is not being released - amid reports it was blocked by Treasury.

    A Govt spokesperson says: "We of course want value for taxpayer's money and any delay is a working through of final details"

    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1490576009493729280

    Increasingly getting the sense that Johnson now faces the same (but more intense and short term) challenge TB had in his third term. Namely that HMT is loath to agree to any No 10 plans involving money as the ChX sees these as opportunistic and wasted on a dying administration….
    https://twitter.com/FRSAMatthew/status/1490277534189203458
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    eek said:

    As I have posted before. Sunak needs to seize the day, because if he dithers now he will never get the crown.

    Why is he waiting for Johnson to sack him?

    As TSE pointed out on Friday, you want a VONC triggered on Monday to Wednesday as that gives Bozo less than 24 hours to fight a rearguard action to remain in power.

    Trigger it on a Thursday or Friday and he has 72 to 96 hours to argue his case.
    The case seems to be "the grownups are back in charge". Which is odd, as the PM remains in place.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Windy this morning.

    On thread (immediate) why would Bellfield confess, unless, either as Ydoethur says he's attention seeking or he actually did it?

    On topic, I fear we are seeing another example of 'greased piglet'; spread stories attacking the Chancellor to further evade responsibility for the mess the country finds itself, and the widespread (and not just in UK) contempt for our current PM.

    On Bellfield: if he has served time in the same prison as Stone, or they have had cellmates in common, then verbal evidence will not prove much.

    But if Bellfield can give details of the crime that were not public knowledge, then it steers towards him.

    As to why Bellfield might confess: who knows? I suppose there's a chance that he's developed a conscience and does not want an innocent in jail for his crimes; but I doubt such a monster would ever get a conscience. Or he wants a little extra notoriety for a crime he did or did not commit. Or he just wants to muddy the water, for focus to be on him for a while.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited February 2022
    Another interesting factor re; Sunak is that this Heseltine legend seems to have become an internally self-fulfilling bit of Tory party mythology. It never stopped Johnson against May, who first and typically, thought he was above the rules, and then secondly, got away with it, but it seems to be stopping Sunak.

    There's some mix of Sunak's natural caution going on with the Tory party having internalised this mythology, I think ; and with Johnsons's ability to have broken on it only confirming his exceptional status to the party.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Oracle, your comment reminds me of the take in Dragon Wing, the first Death Gate Cycle novel, in which it's remarked that Bane's enchantment of charming people to like him works because they want it to work.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Windy this morning.

    On thread (immediate) why would Bellfield confess, unless, either as Ydoethur says he's attention seeking or he actually did it?

    On topic, I fear we are seeing another example of 'greased piglet'; spread stories attacking the Chancellor to further evade responsibility for the mess the country finds itself, and the widespread (and not just in UK) contempt for our current PM.

    On Bellfield: if he has served time in the same prison as Stone, or they have had cellmates in common, then verbal evidence will not prove much.

    But if Bellfield can give details of the crime that were not public knowledge, then it steers towards him.

    As to why Bellfield might confess: who knows? I suppose there's a chance that he's developed a conscience and does not want an innocent in jail for his crimes; but I doubt such a monster would ever get a conscience. Or he wants a little extra notoriety for a crime he did or did not commit. Or he just wants to muddy the water, for focus to be on him for a while.
    His lawyer has claimed he gave details about the crime 'only the killer would know.' As did a former cell mate when he confessed before five years ago before changing his mind.

    Question - if these were details 'only the killer would know,' how did his lawyer and cellmate know enough to identify them?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Day 8...

    .@KayBurley: Should the PM apologise for his Jimmy Savile comment at Sir Keir Starmer?

    Sajid Javid says "we should try to move on" because the prime minister has "clarified" his remarks.

    #KayBurley https://trib.al/FKNcC7K

    📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1490586181242916864/video/1
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    This government has at best a mixed reputation for competence, even amongst its supporters. The bits that you can point to, other than the vaccines and vaccine roll out efforts, mainly come from the Treasury. It appears that the Saj is in team Rishi too. Boris couldn't win a battle like that right now. He may think that Sunak has been luke warm in his support but that is something he is just going to live with.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    One delightful irony about this thread is that Sunak was appointed Chancellor because Cummings and Johnson thought he would be a pliable figure who would do what they wanted, rather than Javid who was not very happy about one of his aides being assaulted and robbed.

    Karma's a bitch...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    So, today Boris is safe, Give it a week and he will be back on the precipice.

    That said Sunak is definitely walking on thin ice,
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    🔴NEW: Sir Keir Starmer has been cleared by police over an allegation he broke lockdown rules after being photographed drinking a beer in a constituency office https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/07/sir-keir-starmer-cleared-police-lockdown-office-beer/?utm_content=politics&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1644219460-2
  • tlg86 said:

    First like Senegal.

    I haven't watched the match, just checked the result but oh dear, a major final decided on penalties - in the words of Brenda from Bristol "Not another one?!"

    There has to be a better way surely...

    Run the penalty shoot-out at 90 mins then play 30 mins of extra time to give those who missed their penalties a shot (!) at redemption.

    or

    Have a count-back on corners or fouls or both ffs.
    or learn how to take penalties better.

  • Ex-pros who refer to penalty shootouts as 'a lottery' are the worst.

    Have a look at United vs Middlesboro from Friday - excellent technique, excellent skill and the perfect 1vs1 situation in football. Lovely stuff.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    FPT:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    It's not a descriptive word that I use. It is offensive without having any substance in refuting what is said.
    Oh, I agree. I wouldn't use it either. But it's not racist.
    I would say it was.

    I can't see how. It doesn't fit any definition of racism I know of, e.g.:

    "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized"
    I believe that for legal and regulatory purposes, the UK (and many other countries) include religion in their definitions of racism.

    As in racism against Muslims, for example.
    I'm not sure that's quite true. Religion or belief is a separate 'protected characteristic'.

    (which does raise the interesting conundrum of what happens of a white-supremacist claims 'white supremacy' is his or her belief, but I'm going to pass on that one; let someone try it and see what the courts decide.)
    That’s my understanding too. However, discrimination against certain ethno-religious groups — e.g., Jewish, Sikh — is considered racism in UK law.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    I think that is the first Sky 10 o' clock I have watched for a very long time that made no reference to Boris

    He rode the tiger and tamed it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    While everyone says that he who wields the knife never gets the crown it's worth remembering that wasn't the case last time. Boris helped wield the knife, repeatedly, versus Theresa May and got the crown and an eighty seat majority afterwards.

    Gordon Brown effectively wielded the knife versus Tony Blair too, didn't win a majority but did get to be PM.

    Heseltine isn't the only precedence.

    Yes, and David Miliband showed everyone the banana-shaped knife he decided not to wield, and was defeated by his brother in the post-election leadership contest. Though perhaps he fell between the two stools.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Scott_xP said:

    🔴NEW: Sir Keir Starmer has been cleared by police over an allegation he broke lockdown rules after being photographed drinking a beer in a constituency office https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/07/sir-keir-starmer-cleared-police-lockdown-office-beer/?utm_content=politics&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1644219460-2

    Probably gets Rishi off the hook too then.....
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    tlg86 said:

    First like Senegal.

    I haven't watched the match, just checked the result but oh dear, a major final decided on penalties - in the words of Brenda from Bristol "Not another one?!"

    There has to be a better way surely...

    Run the penalty shoot-out at 90 mins then play 30 mins of extra time to give those who missed their penalties a shot (!) at redemption.

    or

    Have a count-back on corners or fouls or both ffs.
    One of the problems with Association Football is that it's a low-scoring game, and so this means that draws are relatively common, and a means of dividing the teams in knock-out competitions when there is a draw has to be devised.

    My favoured approach would be to expand the size of the goal by a foot in each direction for every five minutes of Extra Time - but this would require a complicated mechanical design.

    A more practical approach would be to steal an idea from Gaelic Football, extend the posts upwards above the crossbar, and award points for shots that go through the posts above the crossbar. These points can then be used to decide games where the teams are level on goals.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022
    Sajid Javed is clearly pitching in behind Rishi Sunak. He's just said that it's not the Treasury holding up Boris' big relaunch idea this morning, but Omicron.

    If they are going to do it, then someone prominent may need to wield the knife on Rishi's behalf. Presumably the payback would be landing a big job in a Rishi regime. The Sunday Times reports Javid as being lined up for a return to No. 11.

    https://news.sky.com/story/live-news-rishi-sunak-announcement-how-much-bills-rise-energy-price-cap-12514080

    I'm still not convinced the tory party has the gumption or courage to remove Johnson. To retain power in 2024 they have to, but they seem intent on a reenactment of the Gadarene swine.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    tlg86 said:

    First like Senegal.

    I haven't watched the match, just checked the result but oh dear, a major final decided on penalties - in the words of Brenda from Bristol "Not another one?!"

    There has to be a better way surely...

    Run the penalty shoot-out at 90 mins then play 30 mins of extra time to give those who missed their penalties a shot (!) at redemption.

    or

    Have a count-back on corners or fouls or both ffs.
    One of the problems with Association Football is that it's a low-scoring game, and so this means that draws are relatively common, and a means of dividing the teams in knock-out competitions when there is a draw has to be devised.

    My favoured approach would be to expand the size of the goal by a foot in each direction for every five minutes of Extra Time - but this would require a complicated mechanical design.

    A more practical approach would be to steal an idea from Gaelic Football, extend the posts upwards above the crossbar, and award points for shots that go through the posts above the crossbar. These points can then be used to decide games where the teams are level on goals.
    Hasn't this already been solved?

    Get women to play.
  • tlg86 said:

    First like Senegal.

    I haven't watched the match, just checked the result but oh dear, a major final decided on penalties - in the words of Brenda from Bristol "Not another one?!"

    There has to be a better way surely...

    Run the penalty shoot-out at 90 mins then play 30 mins of extra time to give those who missed their penalties a shot (!) at redemption.

    or

    Have a count-back on corners or fouls or both ffs.
    One of the problems with Association Football is that it's a low-scoring game, and so this means that draws are relatively common, and a means of dividing the teams in knock-out competitions when there is a draw has to be devised.

    My favoured approach would be to expand the size of the goal by a foot in each direction for every five minutes of Extra Time - but this would require a complicated mechanical design.

    A more practical approach would be to steal an idea from Gaelic Football, extend the posts upwards above the crossbar, and award points for shots that go through the posts above the crossbar. These points can then be used to decide games where the teams are level on goals.
    So awarding players/teams for NOT doing what they're supposed to ... ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….
  • Thunderdome: two teams enter, one team leaves.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    Also the dates of the Parliamentary recess which buys Johnson 10 days respite from Brady letters. Hang on to your hats.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    As I have stated on here, he won't.

    They don't have anything like sufficient forces in place. It's a bit of bear-hunting machismo from Putin. Boris Johnson and Liz Truss have jumped on it all to stoke up tensions for their own political gain. Yes it's a tense situation but this has been ongoing for 8 years.

    Besides, Russian eyes are on the Olympics. That's not facetious. President Xi and Vladimir Putin are cosying up. I don't think an invasion during the OIympics is likely.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    tlg86 said:

    First like Senegal.

    I haven't watched the match, just checked the result but oh dear, a major final decided on penalties - in the words of Brenda from Bristol "Not another one?!"

    There has to be a better way surely...

    Run the penalty shoot-out at 90 mins then play 30 mins of extra time to give those who missed their penalties a shot (!) at redemption.

    or

    Have a count-back on corners or fouls or both ffs.
    One of the problems with Association Football is that it's a low-scoring game, and so this means that draws are relatively common, and a means of dividing the teams in knock-out competitions when there is a draw has to be devised.

    My favoured approach would be to expand the size of the goal by a foot in each direction for every five minutes of Extra Time - but this would require a complicated mechanical design.

    A more practical approach would be to steal an idea from Gaelic Football, extend the posts upwards above the crossbar, and award points for shots that go through the posts above the crossbar. These points can then be used to decide games where the teams are level on goals.
    So awarding players/teams for NOT doing what they're supposed to ... ?
    You won't get something from Gaelic Football accepted in (parts of) Ulster)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    Also the dates of the Parliamentary recess which buys Johnson 10 days respite from Brady letters. Hang on to your hats.
    Letters can still be sent anytime and I'd have thought the perfect moment to send them in is when the Whips can't bundle you into a broom cupboard.

    The most deadly time for Johnson is the recess.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    As I have stated on here, he won't.

    They don't have anything like sufficient forces in place. It's a bit of bear-hunting machismo from Putin. Boris Johnson and Liz Truss have jumped on it all to stoke up tensions for their own political gain. Yes it's a tense situation but this has been ongoing for 8 years.

    Besides, Russian eyes are on the Olympics. That's not facetious. President Xi and Vladimir Putin are cosying up. I don't think an invasion during the OIympics is likely.
    He’s still moving troops close to the border.

    But I tend to agree, what looked inevitable in January looks considerably less certain now

    Perhaps he will just gobble another slice of Russian-speaking Ukraine and use the weight of troops ready to go as a means of ensuring Ukraine does not really fight back.

    Faces and lives saved all round. Putin enlarges Russia, slowly but surely, once again
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Jonathan said:

    So, today Boris is safe, Give it a week and he will be back on the precipice.

    That said Sunak is definitely walking on thin ice,

    This Thursday is important, as MPs are then off for 10 days. Nobody wants a leadership contest during recess -
    I think you're eliding two different things Nick.

    There's not the slightest reason why people can't or won't send in letters during recess. One click on the Sent box and the deed is done. It's the perfect time for plotters when the whips can't bundle you into a broom cupboard.

    Think like the enemy: what time would you fear the most? When they're away from Westminster of course!

    That's a different thing from the actual start of the VONC. People sending in letters won't be worrying about that.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    Also the dates of the Parliamentary recess which buys Johnson 10 days respite from Brady letters. Hang on to your hats.
    Letters can still be sent anytime and I'd have thought the perfect moment to send them in is when the Whips can't bundle you into a broom cupboard.

    The most deadly time for Johnson is the recess.
    They don't want to hit 54 during a recess and either have a half-cock vote with some mps away or give Johnson a week to canvass in
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    This is remarkably good on Cummings, from someone who worked with him: https://samf.substack.com/p/what-dominic-cummings-gets-wrong

    Ultimately this is what Cummings gets wrong. Regulation, institutional norms, information transparency, processes, are more important than brilliant people. Because it is only those things that stand in the way of bad actors destroying systems. It is the current absence of these things causing America so many problems because Trump is a really bad actor. Indeed in winning the Presidency, Trump did more or less exactly what Cummings proposes in his blog (with a lot more money) because the institutional and cultural structures allowed him to do so. To a lesser degree Cummings facilitated Johnson doing the same here by encouraging the prorogation of Parliament and defenestration of Tory MPs who disagreed with his view. Johnson has always had a natural belief in his ability to get away with anything but these successes (in their own terms) can only have bolstered that belief.
    See also the good chaps theory:

    https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/peter-hennessy-interview-good-chaps-theory-of-government-boris-johnson
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    As I have stated on here, he won't.

    They don't have anything like sufficient forces in place. It's a bit of bear-hunting machismo from Putin. Boris Johnson and Liz Truss have jumped on it all to stoke up tensions for their own political gain. Yes it's a tense situation but this has been ongoing for 8 years.

    Besides, Russian eyes are on the Olympics. That's not facetious. President Xi and Vladimir Putin are cosying up. I don't think an invasion during the OIympics is likely.
    The Olympics - esp the sideshow of the Winter Olympics - don’t have any bearing at all. Arguably they are a good distraction, so a good time for some brutal geopolitics

    The USSR suppressed the Budapest Uprising during the 1956 Olympics
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022
    p.s. the best possible hope for the anti-Johnson brigade is a long gap from the 54 threshold to the actual VONC when they return.

    Johnson's best hope is a very quick VONC in which there isn't sufficient momentum to land the 150+ opposing MPs.

    The 10 day window is ideal for the plotters. The longer the gap to the VONC the greater their chances. The media frenzy will be immense with the Johnson Downfall the driving meme.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    This is remarkably good on Cummings, from someone who worked with him: https://samf.substack.com/p/what-dominic-cummings-gets-wrong

    Ultimately this is what Cummings gets wrong. Regulation, institutional norms, information transparency, processes, are more important than brilliant people. Because it is only those things that stand in the way of bad actors destroying systems. It is the current absence of these things causing America so many problems because Trump is a really bad actor. Indeed in winning the Presidency, Trump did more or less exactly what Cummings proposes in his blog (with a lot more money) because the institutional and cultural structures allowed him to do so. To a lesser degree Cummings facilitated Johnson doing the same here by encouraging the prorogation of Parliament and defenestration of Tory MPs who disagreed with his view. Johnson has always had a natural belief in his ability to get away with anything but these successes (in their own terms) can only have bolstered that belief.
    But he didn't get away with prorogation.

    And he didn't undermine the institutions - he used them to show the ultra-remainers in sharp relief. The theatrical supreme court case was a perfect way of conveying what the problem was.

    Even I, a Remain voter, understood why Johnson would go on to win that huge majority. When Parliament is so obviously at odds with the people, something has to give.
  • This is remarkably good on Cummings, from someone who worked with him: https://samf.substack.com/p/what-dominic-cummings-gets-wrong

    Ultimately this is what Cummings gets wrong. Regulation, institutional norms, information transparency, processes, are more important than brilliant people. Because it is only those things that stand in the way of bad actors destroying systems. It is the current absence of these things causing America so many problems because Trump is a really bad actor. Indeed in winning the Presidency, Trump did more or less exactly what Cummings proposes in his blog (with a lot more money) because the institutional and cultural structures allowed him to do so. To a lesser degree Cummings facilitated Johnson doing the same here by encouraging the prorogation of Parliament and defenestration of Tory MPs who disagreed with his view. Johnson has always had a natural belief in his ability to get away with anything but these successes (in their own terms) can only have bolstered that belief.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NUqytjlHNIM
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
  • Sobering reading...

    "...there is a real danger, which hardly anybody seems to perceive, that inflation does not fall back to even that above-target level. In that case, if we are to get on top of it, then interest rates will have to rise even further [than 2-5%]".

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/06/coming-storm-central-banks-fight-inflation-will-far-worse-anyone/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
    It's free market economics in action, like it or lump it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    As I have stated on here, he won't.

    They don't have anything like sufficient forces in place. It's a bit of bear-hunting machismo from Putin. Boris Johnson and Liz Truss have jumped on it all to stoke up tensions for their own political gain. Yes it's a tense situation but this has been ongoing for 8 years.

    Besides, Russian eyes are on the Olympics. That's not facetious. President Xi and Vladimir Putin are cosying up. I don't think an invasion during the OIympics is likely.
    Don't forget the damage being done to the Ukrainian economy and inward investment, meantime. His keeping those troops marching up and down is the modern equivalent of the medieval siege, and it's quite possible the Ukrainians will reach the point of having to 'pay' in some way to get them to go away.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
    It's free market economics in action, like it or lump it.
    What a juvenile remark
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    As I have stated on here, he won't.

    They don't have anything like sufficient forces in place. It's a bit of bear-hunting machismo from Putin. Boris Johnson and Liz Truss have jumped on it all to stoke up tensions for their own political gain. Yes it's a tense situation but this has been ongoing for 8 years.

    Besides, Russian eyes are on the Olympics. That's not facetious. President Xi and Vladimir Putin are cosying up. I don't think an invasion during the OIympics is likely.
    The Olympics - esp the sideshow of the Winter Olympics - don’t have any bearing at all. Arguably they are a good distraction, so a good time for some brutal geopolitics

    The USSR suppressed the Budapest Uprising during the 1956 Olympics
    Although of course the USSR didn't decide the timing of the Budapest uprising.
  • - ”For each of the following party leaders, do you think they are doing very well in their job, quite well, quite badly or very badly?” (Net)

    Boris Johnson:

    London -33
    Rest of South -28
    Midlands -43
    North -43
    Wales -43
    Scotland -77
    GB -40

    Keir Starmer:

    London +3
    Rest of South -5
    Midlands +11
    North +8
    Wales +18
    Scotland +7
    GB +4

    Rishi Sunak:

    London +16
    Rest of South +45
    Midlands +44
    North +26
    Wales +51
    Scotland +27
    GB +35

    Liz Truss:

    London +21
    Rest of South +4
    Midlands +4
    North +3
    Wales +24
    Scotland -11
    GB +7

    Priti Patel:

    London -18
    Rest of South -19
    Midlands -20
    North -35
    Wales +2
    Scotland -26
    GB -23

    (Deltapoll/Daily Mirror; Sample Size: 1,515; Fieldwork: 25th - 27th January 2022)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    As I have stated on here, he won't.

    They don't have anything like sufficient forces in place. It's a bit of bear-hunting machismo from Putin. Boris Johnson and Liz Truss have jumped on it all to stoke up tensions for their own political gain. Yes it's a tense situation but this has been ongoing for 8 years.

    Besides, Russian eyes are on the Olympics. That's not facetious. President Xi and Vladimir Putin are cosying up. I don't think an invasion during the OIympics is likely.
    The Olympics - esp the sideshow of the Winter Olympics - don’t have any bearing at all. Arguably they are a good distraction, so a good time for some brutal geopolitics

    The USSR suppressed the Budapest Uprising during the 1956 Olympics
    Although of course the USSR didn't decide the timing of the Budapest uprising.
    Nonetheless the glare of global sporting publicity did not stay the Soviet hand

    The idea that Putin will pause his Ukrainian invasion because “omg everyone is watching the snowboarding” is somewhat bizarre

    Putin may pause or postpone for many reasons. Perhaps he never intended an invasion anyway. He just want to menace. Like China surrounding Hong long

    But it won’t be the ice dancing in Beijing that saves Kiev
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    This is remarkably good on Cummings, from someone who worked with him: https://samf.substack.com/p/what-dominic-cummings-gets-wrong

    Ultimately this is what Cummings gets wrong. Regulation, institutional norms, information transparency, processes, are more important than brilliant people. Because it is only those things that stand in the way of bad actors destroying systems. It is the current absence of these things causing America so many problems because Trump is a really bad actor. Indeed in winning the Presidency, Trump did more or less exactly what Cummings proposes in his blog (with a lot more money) because the institutional and cultural structures allowed him to do so. To a lesser degree Cummings facilitated Johnson doing the same here by encouraging the prorogation of Parliament and defenestration of Tory MPs who disagreed with his view. Johnson has always had a natural belief in his ability to get away with anything but these successes (in their own terms) can only have bolstered that belief.
    Yes, indeed it is. And it underlines the point, which accords with my broad view, that systems and procedures are generally more important than individuals - the individual that genuinely makes a major difference is rare, and in more than half of those rare cases the difference is negative. If someone really wants to make a difference they need to be working on designing better institutional systems and structures.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
    It's free market economics in action, like it or lump it.
    What a juvenile remark
    In what sense is it juvenile?

    No club will touch Goodwillie because of the impact it will have on sponsors and the club's marketability. That's the free market in operation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    - ”For each of the following party leaders, do you think they are doing very well in their job, quite well, quite badly or very badly?” (Net)

    Boris Johnson:

    London -33
    Rest of South -28
    Midlands -43
    North -43
    Wales -43
    Scotland -77
    GB -40

    Keir Starmer:

    London +3
    Rest of South -5
    Midlands +11
    North +8
    Wales +18
    Scotland +7
    GB +4

    Rishi Sunak:

    London +16
    Rest of South +45
    Midlands +44
    North +26
    Wales +51
    Scotland +27
    GB +35

    Liz Truss:

    London +21
    Rest of South +4
    Midlands +4
    North +3
    Wales +24
    Scotland -11
    GB +7

    Priti Patel:

    London -18
    Rest of South -19
    Midlands -20
    North -35
    Wales +2
    Scotland -26
    GB -23

    (Deltapoll/Daily Mirror; Sample Size: 1,515; Fieldwork: 25th - 27th January 2022)

    I never knew that the Welsh were so happy with everything (ex the clown, obvs)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    As I have stated on here, he won't.

    They don't have anything like sufficient forces in place. It's a bit of bear-hunting machismo from Putin. Boris Johnson and Liz Truss have jumped on it all to stoke up tensions for their own political gain. Yes it's a tense situation but this has been ongoing for 8 years.

    Besides, Russian eyes are on the Olympics. That's not facetious. President Xi and Vladimir Putin are cosying up. I don't think an invasion during the OIympics is likely.
    The Olympics - esp the sideshow of the Winter Olympics - don’t have any bearing at all. Arguably they are a good distraction, so a good time for some brutal geopolitics

    The USSR suppressed the Budapest Uprising during the 1956 Olympics
    Although of course the USSR didn't decide the timing of the Budapest uprising.
    Nonetheless the glare of global sporting publicity did not stay the Soviet hand

    The idea that Putin will pause his Ukrainian invasion because “omg everyone is watching the snowboarding” is somewhat bizarre

    Putin may pause or postpone for many reasons. Perhaps he never intended an invasion anyway. He just want to menace. Like China surrounding Hong long

    But it won’t be the ice dancing in Beijing that saves Kiev
    I do agree it's not going to be top of his list of considerations.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
    It's free market economics in action, like it or lump it.
    What a juvenile remark
    Sean, are you really accusing someone else of being juvenile? Really? With your record? C’mon.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Heathener said:

    p.s. the best possible hope for the anti-Johnson brigade is a long gap from the 54 threshold to the actual VONC when they return.

    Johnson's best hope is a very quick VONC in which there isn't sufficient momentum to land the 150+ opposing MPs.

    The 10 day window is ideal for the plotters. The longer the gap to the VONC the greater their chances. The media frenzy will be immense with the Johnson Downfall the driving meme.

    Not necessarily. Both sides can take advantage of however long the window is.

    Here's a crucial point: the vote is by simple majority of *electors* not of *actual voters* and as far as I can tell it is the PM who has to get over that line: e.g. BBC "To win, Mr Johnson would need to secure a simple majority." In that case low turnout is a killer for Johnson. Conversely if the BBC is wrong it's a killer for the rebels. So could Sir G hold an election when everybody has gone off skiing?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45953182
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
    It's free market economics in action, like it or lump it.
    What a juvenile remark
    In what sense is it juvenile?

    No club will touch Goodwillie because of the impact it will have on sponsors and the club's marketability. That's the free market in operation.
    I wonder if you’d be quite so glib if he was black

    Or if he was ALLEGED to have commited a different crime, like statue toppling. Or hitting the police. Not convicted, just ALLEGED
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
    It's free market economics in action, like it or lump it.
    What a juvenile remark
    In what sense is it juvenile?

    No club will touch Goodwillie because of the impact it will have on sponsors and the clubs marketability. That's the free market in operation.
    It seems to me that this is a dangerous route to go down. If someone has been convicted of the crime, then perhaps you can make more of a case. But what of redemption? Of serving your time? There seems to be some crimes that you are not allowed to atone for. Maybe that's what people want, but if thats the case, say so.

    But when someone has not been convicted? There is a lower burden of proof in the civil case, and without knowing too many details, I suspect this has been a her word against his scenario. None of us know the truth. yet he has been denied gainful employment. Thats not right.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
    It's free market economics in action, like it or lump it.
    Free market opinion, perhaps?

    And like markets, you can get some irrational opinions, bubbles, and market power.
  • IanB2 said:

    - ”For each of the following party leaders, do you think they are doing very well in their job, quite well, quite badly or very badly?” (Net)

    Boris Johnson:

    London -33
    Rest of South -28
    Midlands -43
    North -43
    Wales -43
    Scotland -77
    GB -40

    Keir Starmer:

    London +3
    Rest of South -5
    Midlands +11
    North +8
    Wales +18
    Scotland +7
    GB +4

    Rishi Sunak:

    London +16
    Rest of South +45
    Midlands +44
    North +26
    Wales +51
    Scotland +27
    GB +35

    Liz Truss:

    London +21
    Rest of South +4
    Midlands +4
    North +3
    Wales +24
    Scotland -11
    GB +7

    Priti Patel:

    London -18
    Rest of South -19
    Midlands -20
    North -35
    Wales +2
    Scotland -26
    GB -23

    (Deltapoll/Daily Mirror; Sample Size: 1,515; Fieldwork: 25th - 27th January 2022)

    I never knew that the Welsh were so happy with everything (ex the clown, obvs)
    Quite literally anyone would be better than Johnson. Heck, I think SeanT would probably make a better fist of the job. If he could keep away from his off-licence, drug dealer and brothel for a couple of years.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    tlg86 said:

    First like Senegal.

    I haven't watched the match, just checked the result but oh dear, a major final decided on penalties - in the words of Brenda from Bristol "Not another one?!"

    There has to be a better way surely...

    Run the penalty shoot-out at 90 mins then play 30 mins of extra time to give those who missed their penalties a shot (!) at redemption.

    or

    Have a count-back on corners or fouls or both ffs.
    Penalties at 90 minutes is the way to go. Then at least you get 30 minutes of football where one team has to try to score. I watched the extra time last night - it wasn't terrible, but I think it would be better to have them play knowing the outcome of the penalties.

    By the way, UEFA have scrapped the away goals rule. Now, it's always been controversial, and as an Arsenal fan I don't like it (I think we've won once on away goals and lost seven or eight times!).

    But... it does reduce the number of draws, and once away goals are settled in the second leg, it creates the situation where one team has to try to score, which tends to create drama.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Heathener said:

    Jonathan said:

    So, today Boris is safe, Give it a week and he will be back on the precipice.

    That said Sunak is definitely walking on thin ice,

    This Thursday is important, as MPs are then off for 10 days. Nobody wants a leadership contest during recess -
    I think you're eliding two different things Nick.

    There's not the slightest reason why people can't or won't send in letters during recess. One click on the Sent box and the deed is done. It's the perfect time for plotters when the whips can't bundle you into a broom cupboard.

    Think like the enemy: what time would you fear the most? When they're away from Westminster of course!

    That's a different thing from the actual start of the VONC. People sending in letters won't be worrying about that.
    As I understand it (but others may correct me), the VONC follows immediately. So you're a Tory MP from (say) Buckinghamshire enjoying a break with your family in Durham. You're not especially in touch with anyone at the moment - yes, there's WhatsApp, but your partner has persuaded you to switch the bloody thing off. Why would you write a letter and possibly have to rush back to Westminster? "It'll wait till next week" is just normal procrastination. And I say that as a politics nerd wih thinks about the latest polling at Christmas - lots of MPs aren't really that obsessive.

    And I think Johnson's team will be better organiser to pressure people scattered royund the country than the rebels will.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    NB we are now just 3 days from the alleged 10-day window in which VLAD PUTIIN is expected to invade Ukraine, if he is ever going to

    Feb 10-20

    The theory is, after Feb 20 the first thaws slowly kick in and his planned campaign could get stuck - literally - in mud in March

    Eyes down. Ready….

    As I have stated on here, he won't.

    They don't have anything like sufficient forces in place. It's a bit of bear-hunting machismo from Putin. Boris Johnson and Liz Truss have jumped on it all to stoke up tensions for their own political gain. Yes it's a tense situation but this has been ongoing for 8 years.

    Besides, Russian eyes are on the Olympics. That's not facetious. President Xi and Vladimir Putin are cosying up. I don't think an invasion during the OIympics is likely.
    The Olympics - esp the sideshow of the Winter Olympics - don’t have any bearing at all. Arguably they are a good distraction, so a good time for some brutal geopolitics

    The USSR suppressed the Budapest Uprising during the 1956 Olympics
    Although of course the USSR didn't decide the timing of the Budapest uprising.
    Nonetheless the glare of global sporting publicity did not stay the Soviet hand

    The idea that Putin will pause his Ukrainian invasion because “omg everyone is watching the snowboarding” is somewhat bizarre

    Putin may pause or postpone for many reasons. Perhaps he never intended an invasion anyway. He just want to menace. Like China surrounding Hong long

    But it won’t be the ice dancing in Beijing that saves Kiev
    To be fair, the global media landscape now is rather different than it was in 1956.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
    It's free market economics in action, like it or lump it.
    What a juvenile remark
    In what sense is it juvenile?

    No club will touch Goodwillie because of the impact it will have on sponsors and the clubs marketability. That's the free market in operation.
    It seems to me that this is a dangerous route to go down. If someone has been convicted of the crime, then perhaps you can make more of a case. But what of redemption? Of serving your time? There seems to be some crimes that you are not allowed to atone for. Maybe that's what people want, but if thats the case, say so.

    But when someone has not been convicted? There is a lower burden of proof in the civil case, and without knowing too many details, I suspect this has been a her word against his scenario. None of us know the truth. yet he has been denied gainful employment. Thats not right.
    Yes, this not only upends any idea of redemption - quite an important part of a fair judicial system - it goes further than that and says there are crimes where the mere allegation - even if you are innocent - is enough to ruin your career. And everyone righteously applauds this

    That’s a TERRIBLE precedent in multiple ways. Those who cheer it on now might be much less complacent if it is applied to other “allegations”
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    IanB2 said:

    - ”For each of the following party leaders, do you think they are doing very well in their job, quite well, quite badly or very badly?” (Net)

    Boris Johnson:

    London -33
    Rest of South -28
    Midlands -43
    North -43
    Wales -43
    Scotland -77
    GB -40

    Keir Starmer:

    London +3
    Rest of South -5
    Midlands +11
    North +8
    Wales +18
    Scotland +7
    GB +4

    Rishi Sunak:

    London +16
    Rest of South +45
    Midlands +44
    North +26
    Wales +51
    Scotland +27
    GB +35

    Liz Truss:

    London +21
    Rest of South +4
    Midlands +4
    North +3
    Wales +24
    Scotland -11
    GB +7

    Priti Patel:

    London -18
    Rest of South -19
    Midlands -20
    North -35
    Wales +2
    Scotland -26
    GB -23

    (Deltapoll/Daily Mirror; Sample Size: 1,515; Fieldwork: 25th - 27th January 2022)

    I never knew that the Welsh were so happy with everything (ex the clown, obvs)
    Quite literally anyone would be better than Johnson. Heck, I think SeanT would probably make a better fist of the job. If he could keep away from his off-licence, drug dealer and brothel for a couple of years.
    I doubt that. Johnson's capriciousness is bad enough, but you couldn't really run a government on the basis of one policy direction on a Monday and the completely opposite on a Tuesday, nor could whatever the latest conspiracy theory that the PM happened to have found on twitter at the weekend always be the top priority.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:



    The problem is that we can never know for sure.

    There are plenty of serial killers who took quite a few murders before they finally found their type. Often their earliest crimes don't fit the pattern exactly.

    On the other hand, if Bellfield's girlfriend is sure... that's pretty convincing evidence.

    On the other, other, Stone would almost certainly be up for release right now if he just confessed his guilt.

    I don't agree with the legal tradition that confessing crimes is a necessary step to release (showing acknowledgement of guilt etc.) as it puts people who are wrongly convicted in an impossible position, almost akin to Stalin's purge victims who were assured (truthfully or otherwise) that if they confessed to conspiring against the State then they wouldn't be executed. "I didn't do it but I do agree it was an utterly monstrous crime which no civilised human being would commit" ought to be sufficient.
    One of the reasons given for excluding that Scottish player from Raith Rovers was that “he has not expressed remorse for his crime”

    Which is pretty bloody outrageous as he has not been convicted of a crime, for a start - he only lost a civil case. And moreover any admission of “remorse” for his “crime” would mean he WOULD then get convicted.

    And perhaps - just perhaps - he is innocent?

    He may not be a very nice man, judging by his ACTUAL convictions but the idea we can prevent someone plying their trade because we don’t like them, and suspect they MIGHT be guilty, is really quite an appalling new principle that we have casually accepted
    It's free market economics in action, like it or lump it.
    What a juvenile remark
    In what sense is it juvenile?

    No club will touch Goodwillie because of the impact it will have on sponsors and the club's marketability. That's the free market in operation.
    I wonder if you’d be quite so glib if he was black

    Or if he was ALLEGED to have commited a different crime, like statue toppling. Or hitting the police. Not convicted, just ALLEGED
    Mate, I am *not* a fan of the 'free market' as a solution for everything, and here's an example of its questionable influence.

    But... a Scottish judge has judge ruled that Goodwillie and Robertson raped a woman and ordered them to pay £100,000 in compensation to her. That's good enough for me.

    Surprised / not surprised that you're defending him tbh.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Goodwillie#Criminal_convictions_and_rape_judgment
  • This is remarkably good on Cummings, from someone who worked with him: https://samf.substack.com/p/what-dominic-cummings-gets-wrong

    Ultimately this is what Cummings gets wrong. Regulation, institutional norms, information transparency, processes, are more important than brilliant people. Because it is only those things that stand in the way of bad actors destroying systems. It is the current absence of these things causing America so many problems because Trump is a really bad actor. Indeed in winning the Presidency, Trump did more or less exactly what Cummings proposes in his blog (with a lot more money) because the institutional and cultural structures allowed him to do so. To a lesser degree Cummings facilitated Johnson doing the same here by encouraging the prorogation of Parliament and defenestration of Tory MPs who disagreed with his view. Johnson has always had a natural belief in his ability to get away with anything but these successes (in their own terms) can only have bolstered that belief.
    Hot off the press! :wink:
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Sobering reading...

    "...there is a real danger, which hardly anybody seems to perceive, that inflation does not fall back to even that above-target level. In that case, if we are to get on top of it, then interest rates will have to rise even further [than 2-5%]".

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/06/coming-storm-central-banks-fight-inflation-will-far-worse-anyone/

    That's the reality - we are going to have a few years of above average inflation, best to get used to it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Heathener said:

    Jonathan said:

    So, today Boris is safe, Give it a week and he will be back on the precipice.

    That said Sunak is definitely walking on thin ice,

    This Thursday is important, as MPs are then off for 10 days. Nobody wants a leadership contest during recess -
    I think you're eliding two different things Nick.

    There's not the slightest reason why people can't or won't send in letters during recess. One click on the Sent box and the deed is done. It's the perfect time for plotters when the whips can't bundle you into a broom cupboard.

    Think like the enemy: what time would you fear the most? When they're away from Westminster of course!

    That's a different thing from the actual start of the VONC. People sending in letters won't be worrying about that.
    As I understand it (but others may correct me), the VONC follows immediately. So you're a Tory MP from (say) Buckinghamshire enjoying a break with your family in Durham. You're not especially in touch with anyone at the moment - yes, there's WhatsApp, but your partner has persuaded you to switch the bloody thing off. Why would you write a letter and possibly have to rush back to Westminster? "It'll wait till next week" is just normal procrastination. And I say that as a politics nerd wih thinks about the latest polling at Christmas - lots of MPs aren't really that obsessive.

    And I think Johnson's team will be better organiser to pressure people scattered royund the country than the rebels will.
    Brady has some discretion over timing, was the vibe over Christmas. A 10 day lag would be disastrous for party and country *as a whole* obviously if it happened but if one side or the other saw advantage in it they might want it to happen anyway.
  • Another interesting factor re; Sunak is that this Heseltine legend seems to have become an internally self-fulfilling bit of Tory party mythology. It never stopped Johnson against May, who first and typically, thought he was above the rules, and then secondly, got away with it, but it seems to be stopping Sunak.

    There's some mix of Sunak's natural caution going on with the Tory party having internalised this mythology, I think ; and with Johnsons's ability to have broken on it only confirming his exceptional status to the party.

    And Thatcher wielded the knife against Heath and became leader.

    Given the mythical status Thatcher has within the Conservative party I would have thought this would encourage her wannabes.

    Or is this yet another situation where what Thatcher did is now misunderstood.
  • We support our allies, Lithuania & the EU, in standing against China’s use of coercive trading practices.

    That’s why we will request to join the EU’s
    @WTO consultation into these measures as a third party to ensure we combat economic coercion in trade together


    https://twitter.com/annietrev/status/1490615423313846274?s=20&t=FLMM0ILCoAkAWaKJISV6UA
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