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Trust matters. – politicalbetting.com

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  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Funny how all the British Nationalists on here assume that the Scots currency will plummet but the £Britnat will be ok. It’s as if you all believe the Britnat propaganda about you being asset rich, whereas you are an underresourced, overpopulated rump of a disappeared empire. Fortunately, IndyScot will be able to bail you out.

    It is the Scottish government's own figures that show you with a massive fiscal deficit. But of course Scottish Nats are often equivalent to Trump supporters in finding their own alternative facts.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?
    Are the french not still the reigning Olympic champions?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    It's even worse than that - they don't even believe that racism against white people is racism.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    I doesn't even mean much as it seems to be applied to all sorts of people. Mind you "boomer" is the worst for that, rather than just meaning baby boomers is now seems to apply to anyone older than a teenager.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Snowman building
    Snowball fighting
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    edited February 2022

    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Snowshoe races across country.

    Dog sleighs too...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    tlg86 said:

    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Snowman building
    Snowball fighting
    Driveway clearing with a snow shovel.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?

    Yes, it would help develop the sport globally and would mean additional state funding in some nations as an Olympic sport.

    It has featured in the commonwealth games before.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Snowman building
    Snowball fighting
    Driveway clearing with a snow shovel.
    Point of order: curling is already an olympic sport.
  • Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Snowman building
    Snowball fighting
    Driveway clearing with a snow shovel.
    Dogwalking in the rain.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    Aslan said:

    Funny how all the British Nationalists on here assume that the Scots currency will plummet but the £Britnat will be ok. It’s as if you all believe the Britnat propaganda about you being asset rich, whereas you are an underresourced, overpopulated rump of a disappeared empire. Fortunately, IndyScot will be able to bail you out.

    It is the Scottish government's own figures that show you with a massive fiscal deficit. But of course Scottish Nats are often equivalent to Trump supporters in finding their own alternative facts.
    "But facts are chiels that winna ding, An' downa be disputed"
    Translation: ScotNat facts are beyond criticism.

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,226
    https://twitter.com/nadinedorries/status/1490410663541452805?s=21

    Chuckle. Nadine Dorries has been sent to Saudi Arabia.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.

    W. Goldberg.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    It's not a descriptive word that I use. It is offensive without having any substance in refuting what is said.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Applicant said:

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.

    W. Goldberg.
    Proves my point exactly - that's been well and truly called out. Correctly so.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/06/whoopi-goldberg-holocaust-remarks-were-born-of-ignorance-not-racism

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60209527
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    edited February 2022

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    But isn’t that the issue with Whooping Goldbergs attitude? She seems to believe that the holocaust wasn’t racist as it was ‘whites’ on ‘whites’.
    And calling any one by a set of characteristics, saying they think and act in a certain way, is the root of racism issues too. If it’s wrong to think that all those of Indian descent think and behave in the same way, then why apply that thinking to a group of people who have different opinions to you?
    Edit typos...
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704

    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Under ice swimming.


    https://youtu.be/x3afBjZnV6c
  • Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    1. What is a Gammon? An overweight white person who gets irate and goes red in the face about the EU, and other things. It is based on a racial characteristic. Whereas a white-supremacist is someone who believes white people are, or should be, superior.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Foxy said:

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    It's not a descriptive word that I use. It is offensive without having any substance in refuting what is said.
    Oh, I agree. I wouldn't use it either. But it's not racist.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Snowman building
    Snowball fighting
    Driveway clearing with a snow shovel.
    Dogwalking in the rain.
    Dogging in the snow
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    tlg86 said:

    Surely people aren't suggesting that Strictly Come Dancing isn't a sport?

    Cricket and Rugby BBC commentating legend Peter West used to commentate on "Come Dancing" so that's good enough for me.
    And the late Tony Gubba did dancing on ice (as does Sam Matterface, but he isn’t in Gubba’s class as a commentator).
    Not sure what's happened to sports commentating. Seems to be a dying art.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704

    Foxy said:

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    It's not a descriptive word that I use. It is offensive without having any substance in refuting what is said.
    Oh, I agree. I wouldn't use it either. But it's not racist.
    No, but like the term ‘Karen’ it merely reflects a prejudice and bigotry in the user.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Do you consider boxing a sport ?
    That's an interesting and complex one.

    The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.

    Judges giving decisions 'on points' isBy a relatively modern devlopment.
    I think in the pankration the victor actually lost if the loser died before the award ceremony. Mind you I am technically an ancient historian but I got that from a Mary Renault novel
    No, I think you have that slightly the wrong way round. The winner was sometimes so badly injured that he died afetr the event and had to be given his medal posthumously.
    Much less posh than Mary Renault but the ancient Greek tec novels of Gary Corby, pretty bad books but very readable, cover the pankration issue. Sacred Games is the one I think. Good mindless fun.

    wiki has this

    In an odd turn of events, a pankration fighter named Arrhichion (Ἀρριχίων) of Phigalia won the pankration competition at the Olympic Games despite being dead. His opponent had locked him in a chokehold and Arrhichion, desperate to loosen it, broke his opponent's toe (some records say his ankle). The opponent nearly passed out from pain and submitted. As the referee raised Arrhichion's hand, it was discovered that he had died from the chokehold. His body was crowned with the olive wreath and returned to Phigaleia as a hero.[citation needed]

    [citation needed] indeed
    Wasn't death much rarer in the days of bare knuckle boxing (C18th-19th) because there was a limit to how much damage an unprotected fist could take when punching your opponent, and therefore how much damage could be inflicted? The Classical lads wore some kind of protection didn't they?
  • Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?

    Yes, it would help develop the sport globally and would mean additional state funding in some nations as an Olympic sport.

    It has featured in the commonwealth games before.
    I'm not sure what possible objection there could be to cricket as an Olympic sport. It would appear to tick all the boxes, especially the white ball form.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,785

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Snowman building
    Snowball fighting
    Driveway clearing with a snow shovel.
    Dogwalking in the rain.
    Sportsbet's marketing department start listening carefully:

    https://youtu.be/3GnBLV5xcdY
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?

    Yes, it would help develop the sport globally and would mean additional state funding in some nations as an Olympic sport.

    It has featured in the commonwealth games before.
    I'm not sure what possible objection there could be to cricket as an Olympic sport. It would appear to tick all the boxes, especially the white ball form.
    Not played in enough countries?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    tlg86 said:

    Surely people aren't suggesting that Strictly Come Dancing isn't a sport?

    Cricket and Rugby BBC commentating legend Peter West used to commentate on "Come Dancing" so that's good enough for me.
    And the late Tony Gubba did dancing on ice (as does Sam Matterface, but he isn’t in Gubba’s class as a commentator).
    Not sure what's happened to sports commentating. Seems to be a dying art.
    I think there are some good commentators around, but matterface is not one of them.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,285
    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because they're dreadful hypocrites who don't understand the meaning of the word "principle", in this case the principle that you don't judge people by their immutable characteristics.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    Terms can still be racist when they focus primarily on chosen behaviour. See also Uncle Tom, Coconut, Banana.
  • Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?

    Yes, it would help develop the sport globally and would mean additional state funding in some nations as an Olympic sport.

    It has featured in the commonwealth games before.
    I'm not sure what possible objection there could be to cricket as an Olympic sport. It would appear to tick all the boxes, especially the white ball form.
    Not played in enough countries?
    But then they have admitted made-up sports that are not actually played in any countries.
  • Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?

    Yes, it would help develop the sport globally and would mean additional state funding in some nations as an Olympic sport.

    It has featured in the commonwealth games before.
    I'm not sure what possible objection there could be to cricket as an Olympic sport. It would appear to tick all the boxes, especially the white ball form.
    Not played in enough countries?
    Hardly.


    There may only be a dozen full members of the ICC but there are over a hundred Associate Members some of which (e.g. The Netherlands) could turn out a pretty decent 20 Over side.

    I imagine the West Indies would appear as separate nations. Barbados would be nobody's pushover.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?

    Yes, it would help develop the sport globally and would mean additional state funding in some nations as an Olympic sport.

    It has featured in the commonwealth games before.
    I'm not sure what possible objection there could be to cricket as an Olympic sport. It would appear to tick all the boxes, especially the white ball form.
    Not played in enough countries?
    Hardly.


    There may only be a dozen full members of the ICC but there are over a hundred Associate Members some of which (e.g. The Netherlands) could turn out a pretty decent 20 Over side.

    I imagine the West Indies would appear as separate nations. Barbados would be nobody's pushover.

    The West Indies did play as separate nations in the commonwealth games.
  • Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?

    Yes, it would help develop the sport globally and would mean additional state funding in some nations as an Olympic sport.

    It has featured in the commonwealth games before.
    I'm not sure what possible objection there could be to cricket as an Olympic sport. It would appear to tick all the boxes, especially the white ball form.
    And what if it rains for a couple of weeks!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,285
    edited February 2022

    tlg86 said:

    Fraud must have gone up a lot for everything else to be down 14%.

    The "value" of many other crimes has collapsed. Cars are harder and harder to steal, without the keys. Personal possessions have fallen massively, in terms of saleable value. Apart from phones and laptops, the contents of even a rich persons home isn't worth much on the second hand market. And even for phone and laptops it's a pittance.

    Jewellery of the kind that has major re-sale value has dropped out of fashion, for most people.

    The value is on your credit cards.
    Probably wrong but one gets the impression most criminals these days are busy trying to scam people on the internet or via phone calls. It doesn't cost them anything to send a million emails to people, in the hope that one or two of them are stupid enough to half-empty their bank account.
  • Farooq said:

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    Terms can still be racist when they focus primarily on chosen behaviour. See also Uncle Tom, Coconut, Banana.
    Banana?

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884

    Farooq said:

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    Terms can still be racist when they focus primarily on chosen behaviour. See also Uncle Tom, Coconut, Banana.
    Banana?

    I’m guessing, but yellow on the outside, white in the middle?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Farooq said:

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    Terms can still be racist when they focus primarily on chosen behaviour. See also Uncle Tom, Coconut, Banana.
    Banana?

    Here's your handy guide:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    Terms can still be racist when they focus primarily on chosen behaviour. See also Uncle Tom, Coconut, Banana.
    Banana?

    I’m guessing, but yellow on the outside, white in the middle?
    Yup, the east Asian equivalent of "coconut"
  • Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Cross country running would be one. It only has elite competition in the winter. Could move the marathon to the winter games as well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    IshmaelZ said:

    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Do you consider boxing a sport ?
    That's an interesting and complex one.

    The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.

    Judges giving decisions 'on points' isBy a relatively modern devlopment.
    I think in the pankration the victor actually lost if the loser died before the award ceremony. Mind you I am technically an ancient historian but I got that from a Mary Renault novel
    No, I think you have that slightly the wrong way round. The winner was sometimes so badly injured that he died afetr the event and had to be given his medal posthumously.
    Much less posh than Mary Renault but the ancient Greek tec novels of Gary Corby, pretty bad books but very readable, cover the pankration issue. Sacred Games is the one I think. Good mindless fun.

    wiki has this

    In an odd turn of events, a pankration fighter named Arrhichion (Ἀρριχίων) of Phigalia won the pankration competition at the Olympic Games despite being dead. His opponent had locked him in a chokehold and Arrhichion, desperate to loosen it, broke his opponent's toe (some records say his ankle). The opponent nearly passed out from pain and submitted. As the referee raised Arrhichion's hand, it was discovered that he had died from the chokehold. His body was crowned with the olive wreath and returned to Phigaleia as a hero.[citation needed]

    [citation needed] indeed
    Wasn't death much rarer in the days of bare knuckle boxing (C18th-19th) because there was a limit to how much damage an unprotected fist could take when punching your opponent, and therefore how much damage could be inflicted? The Classical lads wore some kind of protection didn't they?
    In bare knuckle boxing it was rare to punch the head, as would get broken fingers. It is head blows that make boxing risky.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    Terms can still be racist when they focus primarily on chosen behaviour. See also Uncle Tom, Coconut, Banana.
    Banana?

    Here's your handy guide:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
    And oh look, "Jap" is on there. For those on here who doubted that it is an ethnic slur the other day.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    Foxy said:

    Aslan said:

    moonshine said:

    Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?

    Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
    1. It's not racism though is it? It's directed at a group of people who choose to think and act in a particular way. The important word here is 'choose'. Comparable to calling someone a white-supremacist, a label no doubt only ever aimed at white people, but who would suggest to call someone a white-supremacist is racist?

    2. You think racism is not called out if it's directed against white people? Check out the Holocaust.
    It's not a descriptive word that I use. It is offensive without having any substance in refuting what is said.
    Oh, I agree. I wouldn't use it either. But it's not racist.
    I would say it was.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745
    Evening all :)

    Seems odd, after the months of turmoil and angst, to have a relatively quiet Sunday evening.

    Next Sunday is polling day in the Castile & Leon regional election.

    The latest seat projections suggest the gamble of the incumbent PP leader, Alfonso Manueco, who, it seems, thought a snap election would rid him of his coalition partner, Citizens, and enable him to govern with an overall majority in the regional Cortes, is going to fail.

    PP won 29 seats in the 2019 election and governed with the support of the 12 Citizens deputies with their 41 seats giving them a wafer thin majority over the 40 Opposition seats of whom 35 are held by PSOE and five by others.

    With one of the Citizens deputies becoming an independent and internal disputes, the coalition was near collapse when Manueco called the snap election.

    However, while Citizens look set to be wiped out, the big winners are going to be VOX who might triple their votes share and go from one deputy to perhaps 10 or 11.

    In terms of seats, PP look set to gain only two or three to get to 32 while PSOE fall back to 28 with VOX on 10. The other ten seats looks set to be split among the minor parties - the centre-left Leonese People's Union could win three as might UP with Empty Spain (EV) winning a further three and Citizens just one.

    The fact is the centre-left can't achieve a majority and the only way PP can govern is with the support of VOX which begs the question of how Casado will order his provincial party to play such a result. Going into coalition with VOX might be seen as a precedent for a similar arrangement at national level.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454
    edited February 2022

    Maybe we could turn the Olympics debate on its head a bit. What's not in the Winter Games that should or could be? I like the Winter Olympics in a more-fun-less-serious alternative sort of way but in comparison to the Summer equivalent it's lacking a lot of depth in the variety of events involved.

    Cross country running would be one. It only has elite competition in the winter. Could move the marathon to the winter games as well.
    Speed skiing would be another. They tried it once but one of the participants died on the day of the race (not from racing), which probably did not help.

    Telemark skiing as well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Senegal win on penalties.

    Some great games in the cup. So much talent on the continent.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    New thread.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?

    Yes, it would help develop the sport globally and would mean additional state funding in some nations as an Olympic sport.

    It has featured in the commonwealth games before.
    I'm not sure what possible objection there could be to cricket as an Olympic sport. It would appear to tick all the boxes, especially the white ball form.
    Not played in enough countries?
    But it is played in India, and India would probably be considered a growth market for the Olympics.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    glw said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, for those of you who aren't sad old lumps of white male gammon, here it is again.

    A quite wonderful piece of technical brilliance and artistic aesthetic merit:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60277135


    p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.

    I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
    Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
    Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
    Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
    Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?

    Yes, it would help develop the sport globally and would mean additional state funding in some nations as an Olympic sport.

    It has featured in the commonwealth games before.
    I'm not sure what possible objection there could be to cricket as an Olympic sport. It would appear to tick all the boxes, especially the white ball form.
    And what if it rains for a couple of weeks!
    You'd probably want to play one of the indoor variants for the Olympics. The teams are smaller too, which would make it easier for countries to put a team together.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    malcolmg said:

    Applicant said:

    malcolmg said:

    Applicant said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Applicant said:

    Reposting FPT, because this exquisite example of begging the question, in the traditional sense, deserves better than being left on the tail end of a dead thread.

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm really struggling to understand the viewpoint of those who think rump UK would retain a liability to pay Scottish State Pensions. Another poster made the point quite simply when they asked: "Who would set the rate at which the Scottish State Pension was paid?"

    Suppose that inflation was higher in Scotland than in the rump UK - would Scottish politicians really be happy with seeing pension payments to Scottish pensioners decline in real terms? What if Scottish politicians didn't want to increase the State Pension Retirement age as quickly as in the rump UK - would they really cede this area of policy-making to the rump UK Parliament?

    And there's no way that rump UK could sign a blank cheque to pay any level of increase to a Scottish State Pension - what if Scottish politicians wanted to increase it towards the Western European average?

    Scottish politicians would have to find the money for Scottish state pensions in the Scottish budget if they wanted the independence to make Scottish political decisions over what the level of the pension should be. That's the essence of the Nationalist argument for Independence anyway, so strange for them to try to argue otherwise.

    In what currency would the Scottish State Pension be paid?
    The currency of Scotland Doh!
    Well done, Malc!
    It is hard to believe how stupid these unionists get at times, makes you wonder if they are as bad as they make out or if they just get red rage when Scotland leaving is mentioned. They lose all sense of reality.
    Question from an emigrant as well who has no part to play in it.
    I don't see why the UK would get out of funding the Scot's partial entitlements to our state pension - but I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise.
    Because there isn’t a “fund” of National Insurance money like there is for a private pension (not strictly true, there’s enough to cover 2 weeks worth of pensions, but that’s it) so state pensions are paid out of current taxation.

    So the SNP are arguing that English tax payers would be paying for Scottish pensions.

    Why?
    The fund issue is a red herring. If I owe you money I owe you money, and it makes not the slightest difference whether I have a pot set aside to pay you or have to make the payment out of income. The one situation where it makes all the difference in the world is if I go bankrupt, because a simple debt gets pro rated down along with other debts whereas a specific fund may be earmarked for you in is entirety. Governments with their own currency cannot go bankrupt.

    Here is how absurd the fund argument is: you say there is no fund, only an unsecured promise by the government to pay. But if you have a pension fund which you want to be as secure as possible where do you invest it? You invest it in gilts. What are gilts? They are unsecured promises by the government to pay.

    Additionally it is misleading to say English taxpayers would be paying Scottish pensions. The government would be paying. The money might originate from English taxpayers, but so what? If I pay you a debt out of earned income the money originates with my employers. That doesn't mean they are paying you. I am.
    Why shouldn't the Scottish Taxpayers take responsibility to pay the state pensions of Scottish Pensioners.

    Would MalcolmG and co deem it fair if we offered the reverse terms to Scotland - you can have a referendum if you accept that on separation you pay the state pension of all rUK pensioners.
    Because Scottish pensioners had a bargain with the UK government: they paid ni contributions in exchange for a future pension. If the UK splits and the obligation is split pro rata to size of country 95% of the obligation stays with rUK, and conversely iS is liable for 5% of e and w pensions.
    or you go for the sane approach and Scotland pay 100% of all their pensioners and E&W pay 100% of the pension for those in England and Wales.

    As I've pointed out before, any other solution that results in rUK tax payers sending money to Scottish Pensioners would last as far as the next election and then disappear in a Landslide.
    Sure, in practice you'd do all the sums and make a one off payment rUK to iScot, after which iScot would be in charge of payment. But that in no way affects the sheer muddleheaded wrongness of the "no fund therefore no liability" claim.
    And ultimately that is because the SNP don't care about the facts. The current government doesn't want a referendum. Creative tension between a pair of disgraced liars under police investigation suits both Sturgeon and Johnson rather well. It lets them play to their galleries and ignore the actual problems we have.

    I think we all know that the worst imaginable outcome for the SNP would be a further referendum with a narrow 'yes' vote. They'll pull every trick in the book to avoid that. If a referendum block in Downing Street fails, by promising the unicorns they are trying to make any winning margin as wide as possible.

    And even if that's never needed, it's nice red meat to their dafter supporters and deflects awkward questions about the politicisation of the judiciary, the weakness of Scotland's education system and exactly where that £600k has gone.
    It's baffling that you could actually convince yourself that the SNP's nightmare scenario is a vote for independence. You are obviously wrong and I find it strange that someone even needs to tell you that.
    Voting for Indy by a narrow margin? You think that would be easy? It would be a case of 'be careful what you wish for.' Brexit on acid by a tiny majority could easily be disastrous for Scotland.

    Whichever side wins the next referendum if it's not to cause endless trouble it needs to be decisive.
    It only needs 50%+1 of those voting.
    Ah, so the 2014 referendum was decisive after all.

    So why are we even talking about this?
    They are scared as they know another one is on its way and they are shi**ing their pants that teh result will be different.
    I personally don't care at present but will not just accept blatant lies and stupidity on the topic by half witted frothing unionists who know nothing of Scotland.
    Because only your side is allowed to lie.
    I fail to understand who "your side" is, I have no side other than I personally want Scotland to be independent. The clowns on here are spouting lies, I merely state that no-one especially not the crooked UK government have any clue of the real numbers and what the budgets etc would look like after independence. At this point everything is decided by Westminster so no-one has any idea whatsoever of what a Scottish budget would comprise.
    I take a slightly optimistic view that it would not be as bad as dim saddo's pretend it would be.
    Share with us your great economic credentials please? You throw around offensive words about everyone else who disagrees with you, but, sorry, you really are easily seen as the most stupid poster on here with the least evidence of having any indepth knowledge of anything. You throw around words like moron and cretin without understanding what they mean, but it is apparent to everyone here that if these offensive words apply to anyone they apply to you most.

    You have never once engaged with another poster and beaten them on argument that I have seen, because you are fundamentally incapable of doing so. In the absence of being able to do so you are just rude. You are a silly angry little man and everyone on here thinks you are a bigger laughing stock than Boris Johnson and Alex Salmond put together. I imagine there are quite a few people who are in favour of Scottish Independence who cringe every time you post.
    @Nigel_Foremain F*** off you moronic halfwit.
This discussion has been closed.