Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
There are lines all over the place in cricket - the boundary, the popping crease, three great big sticks of wood stuck into the ground. It's all lines, so that it's all categorical judgements rather than qualitative ones.
LBW?
Is still based, as far as is practicable, on judgement of lines, same as a judgement as to who crossed the finishing line first is, which can be hard if it is close.
The one exception, the one single exception, is the question of whether a batter is playing a shot - and can therefore be out LBW to a ball hitting their pads outside the line. But even this is a yes/no question, rather than as to how well they did or did not play a shot.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
Glad to know what you really think, at least it isn’t me with the unhealty obsession with young ladies in sport.
Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner. You have umpires to make sure the runs are counted fairly, and that batsmen walk when they’re out. There’s very little subjectivity, especially now we use TV camera replays and ball tracking software.
Figure skating is now quite literally reality TV, alongside ballroom dancing. It doesn’t mean it’s not hard work, but as a sport it’s a waste of a good ice hockey rink.
Scottish deficit: 22% of GDP UK deficit: 14% of GDP
Nobody knows the real numbers, certainly not the crooks running teh show. They use fag packets to work it out. Anyone thinking otherwise is not right in the head.
Well, you can work out quite a lot from OECD, IMF and World Bank numbers and they are pretty consistent. So, while you might not like the numbers, the reality is that Scotland would need to go through at least 2 decades of restructuring which would be difficult and painful and you can´t just wish that away. You may think it is worth the pain and that is fair enough, but too many Nats just pretend that its unicorns and rainbows all the way from the day we go it alone, and the "RUK will pay our pensions at no cost to the Scottish government" is just the latest example of wildly wishful thinking. I´d respect the Nat position a lot more if they were honest: "it will be hard, but worth it" rather than "we are so fantastic that it will be easy and the gold rolls in from day one", which is nonsense on stilts and as dishonest as the Tories over Brexit.
The wishful thinking on pensions here is all by unionists, no Scottish person has said anything of the sort.I am happy to go with the fact that all small countries are doing very well with far less resources than Scotland and as you say given we have been ripped off for so long in UK , it will take a while to build up infrastructure, however again I look at all th eeastern European countries who started from scratch not so long ago and nearly all have better livin standards than the UK, so no real issue there either. You lot should be more concerned how rump UK will survive and be able to pay its debts once all the services are gone abroad and there is little left other than flipping burgers or civil service/council jobs.
There you go again... It is not the case that any of the CEE states has yet acheived economic numbers anywhere close to the UK, and I have been involved in this region for over 40 years in one way or another. Slovenia, the wealthiest CEE economy per capita had in 2020 a GDP/capita of USD 25,459 and the UK USD 40, 428. Bulgaria´s 2020 GDP/capita was only USD 10,006. These by the way are pretty good numbers and reflect nearly 3 decades of economic restructuring and growth.
So nice try, but provably untrue. Scotland and the rest of the UK may have significant structural issues, but the UK economy remains large, diverse and, depending on your source, is between the fifth and seventh largest economy in the world. Again I´d have a bit more respect for the Nat position if they did not keep spouting such mince. Bad tempered bollocks is not a credible economic or political argument. Sure Scotland "could" be an independent country, but the price is high and in my view is not worth it. If, instead of dismissing the facts, you admitted them and told us how you were going to deal with them then maybe you could make a case, but the truth is that pretending these serious problems don´t exist destroys the credibility of any other arguement you make.
A very persuasive and fact filled argument by Cicero but being dragged out of the EU against the wishes of a vast majority of their countrymen is not acceptable in 2022. If 'sovereignty' trumps the damage Brexit does to the rest of the UK why shouldn't it in Scotland?
Brexit is screwing all of us. Scotland unlike the rest of the UK have a slim window to avoid the self serving decision made by Johnson and his cronies. If I was Scottish I'd certainly take it
If 62-38 is a “vast majority” I’d love to know what words you would use to describe a 70-30 or 80-20 or 90-10 vote.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Scottish deficit: 22% of GDP UK deficit: 14% of GDP
Nobody knows the real numbers, certainly not the crooks running teh show. They use fag packets to work it out. Anyone thinking otherwise is not right in the head.
Well, you can work out quite a lot from OECD, IMF and World Bank numbers and they are pretty consistent. So, while you might not like the numbers, the reality is that Scotland would need to go through at least 2 decades of restructuring which would be difficult and painful and you can´t just wish that away. You may think it is worth the pain and that is fair enough, but too many Nats just pretend that its unicorns and rainbows all the way from the day we go it alone, and the "RUK will pay our pensions at no cost to the Scottish government" is just the latest example of wildly wishful thinking. I´d respect the Nat position a lot more if they were honest: "it will be hard, but worth it" rather than "we are so fantastic that it will be easy and the gold rolls in from day one", which is nonsense on stilts and as dishonest as the Tories over Brexit.
The wishful thinking on pensions here is all by unionists, no Scottish person has said anything of the sort.I am happy to go with the fact that all small countries are doing very well with far less resources than Scotland and as you say given we have been ripped off for so long in UK , it will take a while to build up infrastructure, however again I look at all th eeastern European countries who started from scratch not so long ago and nearly all have better livin standards than the UK, so no real issue there either. You lot should be more concerned how rump UK will survive and be able to pay its debts once all the services are gone abroad and there is little left other than flipping burgers or civil service/council jobs.
There you go again... It is not the case that any of the CEE states has yet acheived economic numbers anywhere close to the UK, and I have been involved in this region for over 40 years in one way or another. Slovenia, the wealthiest CEE economy per capita had in 2020 a GDP/capita of USD 25,459 and the UK USD 40, 428. Bulgaria´s 2020 GDP/capita was only USD 10,006. These by the way are pretty good numbers and reflect nearly 3 decades of economic restructuring and growth.
So nice try, but provably untrue. Scotland and the rest of the UK may have significant structural issues, but the UK economy remains large, diverse and, depending on your source, is between the fifth and seventh largest economy in the world. Again I´d have a bit more respect for the Nat position if they did not keep spouting such mince. Bad tempered bollocks is not a credible economic or political argument. Sure Scotland "could" be an independent country, but the price is high and in my view is not worth it. If, instead of dismissing the facts, you admitted them and told us how you were going to deal with them then maybe you could make a case, but the truth is that pretending these serious problems don´t exist destroys the credibility of any other arguement you make.
A very persuasive and fact filled argument by Cicero but being dragged out of the EU against the wishes of a vast majority of their countrymen is not acceptable in 2022. If 'sovereignty' trumps the damage Brexit does to the rest of the UK why shouldn't it in Scotland?
Brexit is screwing all of us. Scotland unlike the rest of the UK have a slim window to avoid the self serving decision made by Johnson and his cronies. If I was Scottish I'd certainly take it
If 62-38 is a “vast majority” I’d love to know what words you would use to describe a 70-30 or 80-20 or 90-10 vote.
3:2 is a much larger majority than 13:12. What word would you use to describe it?
Healthy. Significant. Clear.
Actually, maybe not clear. The 1.2:1 scottish independence result was clear. The brexit result of 1.08:1 we could call close.
Scottish deficit: 22% of GDP UK deficit: 14% of GDP
Nobody knows the real numbers, certainly not the crooks running teh show. They use fag packets to work it out. Anyone thinking otherwise is not right in the head.
Well, you can work out quite a lot from OECD, IMF and World Bank numbers and they are pretty consistent. So, while you might not like the numbers, the reality is that Scotland would need to go through at least 2 decades of restructuring which would be difficult and painful and you can´t just wish that away. You may think it is worth the pain and that is fair enough, but too many Nats just pretend that its unicorns and rainbows all the way from the day we go it alone, and the "RUK will pay our pensions at no cost to the Scottish government" is just the latest example of wildly wishful thinking. I´d respect the Nat position a lot more if they were honest: "it will be hard, but worth it" rather than "we are so fantastic that it will be easy and the gold rolls in from day one", which is nonsense on stilts and as dishonest as the Tories over Brexit.
The wishful thinking on pensions here is all by unionists, no Scottish person has said anything of the sort.I am happy to go with the fact that all small countries are doing very well with far less resources than Scotland and as you say given we have been ripped off for so long in UK , it will take a while to build up infrastructure, however again I look at all th eeastern European countries who started from scratch not so long ago and nearly all have better livin standards than the UK, so no real issue there either. You lot should be more concerned how rump UK will survive and be able to pay its debts once all the services are gone abroad and there is little left other than flipping burgers or civil service/council jobs.
There you go again... It is not the case that any of the CEE states has yet acheived economic numbers anywhere close to the UK, and I have been involved in this region for over 40 years in one way or another. Slovenia, the wealthiest CEE economy per capita had in 2020 a GDP/capita of USD 25,459 and the UK USD 40, 428. Bulgaria´s 2020 GDP/capita was only USD 10,006. These by the way are pretty good numbers and reflect nearly 3 decades of economic restructuring and growth.
So nice try, but provably untrue. Scotland and the rest of the UK may have significant structural issues, but the UK economy remains large, diverse and, depending on your source, is between the fifth and seventh largest economy in the world. Again I´d have a bit more respect for the Nat position if they did not keep spouting such mince. Bad tempered bollocks is not a credible economic or political argument. Sure Scotland "could" be an independent country, but the price is high and in my view is not worth it. If, instead of dismissing the facts, you admitted them and told us how you were going to deal with them then maybe you could make a case, but the truth is that pretending these serious problems don´t exist destroys the credibility of any other arguement you make.
A very persuasive and fact filled argument by Cicero but being dragged out of the EU against the wishes of a vast majority of their countrymen is not acceptable in 2022. If 'sovereignty' trumps the damage Brexit does to the rest of the UK why shouldn't it in Scotland?
Brexit is screwing all of us. Scotland unlike the rest of the UK have a slim window to avoid the self serving decision made by Johnson and his cronies. If I was Scottish I'd certainly take it
If 62-38 is a “vast majority” I’d love to know what words you would use to describe a 70-30 or 80-20 or 90-10 vote.
3:2 is a much larger majority than 13:12. What word would you use to describe it?
To me vast majority would be 9 out of 10, or higher.
I think referenda - including Brexit - should represent the "settled will" of the people.
Small variations in voting intention lead to calls for endless re-runs as we have seen for both Sindy and Brexit. 60% threshold for major constitutional change.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Any sport that involves 'prettier' has an immediate problem. The trouble is that there are plenty of traditional sports that involve subjective judging so the arguments get complicated.
I always thought the Olympic Committee crosed a line when it admitted Synchronised Swimming, but then it's not even pretty so any pretence that it is a sport falls flat for me.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I know very little about figure skating, but that looked amazing.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
Glad to know what you really think, at least it isn’t me with the unhealty obsession with young ladies in sport.
Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner. You have umpires to make sure the runs are counted fairly, and that batsmen walk when they’re out. There’s very little subjectivity, especially now we use TV camera replays and ball tracking software.
Figure skating is now quite literally reality TV, alongside ballroom dancing. It doesn’t mean it’s not hard work, but as a sport it’s a waste of a good ice hockey rink.
Quite a lot of sports include human judgement of form - gymnastics, dressage, I think diving too.
The Sunday Times @thesundaytimes NEW: Carrie Johnson has accused “bitter ex-officials” of trying to discredit her with explosive claims that her meddling in government has contributed to the chaos engulfing her husband’s premiership
Her accusation that bitter ex-officials are trying to discredit her can be true without making their claims untrue, though one would hope there is more than rumour or hearsay to substantiate it.
Quite.
I think the Sunday times said (but can't find it) that they had THREE sources saying Carrie has now decided enough is enough and wants to throw in the towel. What with that and pressure on MPs to get letters in before the 10 day recess starting Thursday I expect next week to be interesting
Sorry, but before I get my hopes up I'll remind you that people have been saying "the next few days!" for many weeks.
That is a pretty exciting rumour though. If Carrie has decided, that's it. Dignified resignation imminent. No point in waiting till he gets fined or Cummings reveals more scandals.
Surely if Carrie has decided she has had enough, she leaves Boris.
He's not going to quit - some poor schmuck will feel sorry for him (they may even get their violin out), so he won't be alone for long.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Scottish deficit: 22% of GDP UK deficit: 14% of GDP
Nobody knows the real numbers, certainly not the crooks running teh show. They use fag packets to work it out. Anyone thinking otherwise is not right in the head.
Well, you can work out quite a lot from OECD, IMF and World Bank numbers and they are pretty consistent. So, while you might not like the numbers, the reality is that Scotland would need to go through at least 2 decades of restructuring which would be difficult and painful and you can´t just wish that away. You may think it is worth the pain and that is fair enough, but too many Nats just pretend that its unicorns and rainbows all the way from the day we go it alone, and the "RUK will pay our pensions at no cost to the Scottish government" is just the latest example of wildly wishful thinking. I´d respect the Nat position a lot more if they were honest: "it will be hard, but worth it" rather than "we are so fantastic that it will be easy and the gold rolls in from day one", which is nonsense on stilts and as dishonest as the Tories over Brexit.
The wishful thinking on pensions here is all by unionists, no Scottish person has said anything of the sort.I am happy to go with the fact that all small countries are doing very well with far less resources than Scotland and as you say given we have been ripped off for so long in UK , it will take a while to build up infrastructure, however again I look at all th eeastern European countries who started from scratch not so long ago and nearly all have better livin standards than the UK, so no real issue there either. You lot should be more concerned how rump UK will survive and be able to pay its debts once all the services are gone abroad and there is little left other than flipping burgers or civil service/council jobs.
There you go again... It is not the case that any of the CEE states has yet acheived economic numbers anywhere close to the UK, and I have been involved in this region for over 40 years in one way or another. Slovenia, the wealthiest CEE economy per capita had in 2020 a GDP/capita of USD 25,459 and the UK USD 40, 428. Bulgaria´s 2020 GDP/capita was only USD 10,006. These by the way are pretty good numbers and reflect nearly 3 decades of economic restructuring and growth.
So nice try, but provably untrue. Scotland and the rest of the UK may have significant structural issues, but the UK economy remains large, diverse and, depending on your source, is between the fifth and seventh largest economy in the world. Again I´d have a bit more respect for the Nat position if they did not keep spouting such mince. Bad tempered bollocks is not a credible economic or political argument. Sure Scotland "could" be an independent country, but the price is high and in my view is not worth it. If, instead of dismissing the facts, you admitted them and told us how you were going to deal with them then maybe you could make a case, but the truth is that pretending these serious problems don´t exist destroys the credibility of any other arguement you make.
A very persuasive and fact filled argument by Cicero but being dragged out of the EU against the wishes of a vast majority of their countrymen is not acceptable in 2022. If 'sovereignty' trumps the damage Brexit does to the rest of the UK why shouldn't it in Scotland?
Brexit is screwing all of us. Scotland unlike the rest of the UK have a slim window to avoid the self serving decision made by Johnson and his cronies. If I was Scottish I'd certainly take it. It's got to be worth the risks
Ignoring your sad and tedious and utterly predictable Brexit rant, you are of course right that exactly the same self determination arguments can be made in favour of Scottish Independence as were made in the Brexit debate. This is why I have such an issue with those who supported Brexit but oppose a Scottish vote.
Of course at the same time obtaining freedom from the British Union but then immediately surrendering it again for the European Union is just fecking stupid.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
There are lines all over the place in cricket - the boundary, the popping crease, three great big sticks of wood stuck into the ground. It's all lines, so that it's all categorical judgements rather than qualitative ones.
LBW?
Is a decision made based on lines again. And these days because it is difficult to do with just the naked eye at the highest level it is backed up by technology. There is no decision based on artistic merit.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
There are lines all over the place in cricket - the boundary, the popping crease, three great big sticks of wood stuck into the ground. It's all lines, so that it's all categorical judgements rather than qualitative ones.
LBW?
Now mostly checked if any doubt using ball tracking etc.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I know very little about figure skating, but that looked amazing.
What’s the racism angle here?
Heathener is one of those sad sacks who thinks everything is racist if it is done by a white man.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
She’s a figure skater, not a dancer like Torvill and Dean were.
I get the sense that judges in the Olympics are honest.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
There are lines all over the place in cricket - the boundary, the popping crease, three great big sticks of wood stuck into the ground. It's all lines, so that it's all categorical judgements rather than qualitative ones.
LBW?
Is a decision made based on lines again. And these days because it is difficult to do with just the naked eye at the highest level it is backed up by technology. There is no decision based on artistic merit.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
Her performance is indeed brilliant. Yours ? Less so.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
Glad to know what you really think, at least it isn’t me with the unhealty obsession with young ladies in sport.
Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner. You have umpires to make sure the runs are counted fairly, and that batsmen walk when they’re out. There’s very little subjectivity, especially now we use TV camera replays and ball tracking software.
Figure skating is now quite literally reality TV, alongside ballroom dancing. It doesn’t mean it’s not hard work, but as a sport it’s a waste of a good ice hockey rink.
Quite a lot of sports include human judgement of form - gymnastics, dressage, I think diving too.
I refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer I gave above. These are not sports, at least in the turbotubbs world.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
Scottish deficit: 22% of GDP UK deficit: 14% of GDP
Nobody knows the real numbers, certainly not the crooks running teh show. They use fag packets to work it out. Anyone thinking otherwise is not right in the head.
Well, you can work out quite a lot from OECD, IMF and World Bank numbers and they are pretty consistent. So, while you might not like the numbers, the reality is that Scotland would need to go through at least 2 decades of restructuring which would be difficult and painful and you can´t just wish that away. You may think it is worth the pain and that is fair enough, but too many Nats just pretend that its unicorns and rainbows all the way from the day we go it alone, and the "RUK will pay our pensions at no cost to the Scottish government" is just the latest example of wildly wishful thinking. I´d respect the Nat position a lot more if they were honest: "it will be hard, but worth it" rather than "we are so fantastic that it will be easy and the gold rolls in from day one", which is nonsense on stilts and as dishonest as the Tories over Brexit.
The wishful thinking on pensions here is all by unionists, no Scottish person has said anything of the sort.I am happy to go with the fact that all small countries are doing very well with far less resources than Scotland and as you say given we have been ripped off for so long in UK , it will take a while to build up infrastructure, however again I look at all th eeastern European countries who started from scratch not so long ago and nearly all have better livin standards than the UK, so no real issue there either. You lot should be more concerned how rump UK will survive and be able to pay its debts once all the services are gone abroad and there is little left other than flipping burgers or civil service/council jobs.
There you go again... It is not the case that any of the CEE states has yet acheived economic numbers anywhere close to the UK, and I have been involved in this region for over 40 years in one way or another. Slovenia, the wealthiest CEE economy per capita had in 2020 a GDP/capita of USD 25,459 and the UK USD 40, 428. Bulgaria´s 2020 GDP/capita was only USD 10,006. These by the way are pretty good numbers and reflect nearly 3 decades of economic restructuring and growth.
So nice try, but provably untrue. Scotland and the rest of the UK may have significant structural issues, but the UK economy remains large, diverse and, depending on your source, is between the fifth and seventh largest economy in the world. Again I´d have a bit more respect for the Nat position if they did not keep spouting such mince. Bad tempered bollocks is not a credible economic or political argument. Sure Scotland "could" be an independent country, but the price is high and in my view is not worth it. If, instead of dismissing the facts, you admitted them and told us how you were going to deal with them then maybe you could make a case, but the truth is that pretending these serious problems don´t exist destroys the credibility of any other arguement you make.
A very persuasive and fact filled argument by Cicero but being dragged out of the EU against the wishes of a vast majority of their countrymen is not acceptable in 2022. If 'sovereignty' trumps the damage Brexit does to the rest of the UK why shouldn't it in Scotland?
Brexit is screwing all of us. Scotland unlike the rest of the UK have a slim window to avoid the self serving decision made by Johnson and his cronies. If I was Scottish I'd certainly take it. It's got to be worth the risks
The discussion about pensions has also reminded me of what a stupid and unfair tax National Insurance is. I would have a lot more confidence in paying it, if there was some guarantee as to what I will ultimately recieve in retirement, by way of the state pension. But there is no such guarantee and no contract, as others have pointed out. It all essentially relies on the policies of whatever government is in power when I retire. It is too uncertain to rely on.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That’s a tricky one. In the sense that scoring is allegedly done when a punch connects and is agreed by two out of three judges, then at least I get the mechanism. But in truth for me, unless it’s to a knock out, no. It’s also regularly a laughing stock for bent judges, even at Olympic level.
Reposting FPT, because this exquisite example of begging the question, in the traditional sense, deserves better than being left on the tail end of a dead thread.
I'm really struggling to understand the viewpoint of those who think rump UK would retain a liability to pay Scottish State Pensions. Another poster made the point quite simply when they asked: "Who would set the rate at which the Scottish State Pension was paid?"
Suppose that inflation was higher in Scotland than in the rump UK - would Scottish politicians really be happy with seeing pension payments to Scottish pensioners decline in real terms? What if Scottish politicians didn't want to increase the State Pension Retirement age as quickly as in the rump UK - would they really cede this area of policy-making to the rump UK Parliament?
And there's no way that rump UK could sign a blank cheque to pay any level of increase to a Scottish State Pension - what if Scottish politicians wanted to increase it towards the Western European average?
Scottish politicians would have to find the money for Scottish state pensions in the Scottish budget if they wanted the independence to make Scottish political decisions over what the level of the pension should be. That's the essence of the Nationalist argument for Independence anyway, so strange for them to try to argue otherwise.
In what currency would the Scottish State Pension be paid?
The currency of Scotland Doh!
Well done, Malc!
It is hard to believe how stupid these unionists get at times, makes you wonder if they are as bad as they make out or if they just get red rage when Scotland leaving is mentioned. They lose all sense of reality. Question from an emigrant as well who has no part to play in it.
I don't see why the UK would get out of funding the Scot's partial entitlements to our state pension - but I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise.
Because there isn’t a “fund” of National Insurance money like there is for a private pension (not strictly true, there’s enough to cover 2 weeks worth of pensions, but that’s it) so state pensions are paid out of current taxation.
So the SNP are arguing that English tax payers would be paying for Scottish pensions.
Why?
The fund issue is a red herring. If I owe you money I owe you money, and it makes not the slightest difference whether I have a pot set aside to pay you or have to make the payment out of income. The one situation where it makes all the difference in the world is if I go bankrupt, because a simple debt gets pro rated down along with other debts whereas a specific fund may be earmarked for you in is entirety. Governments with their own currency cannot go bankrupt.
Here is how absurd the fund argument is: you say there is no fund, only an unsecured promise by the government to pay. But if you have a pension fund which you want to be as secure as possible where do you invest it? You invest it in gilts. What are gilts? They are unsecured promises by the government to pay.
Additionally it is misleading to say English taxpayers would be paying Scottish pensions. The government would be paying. The money might originate from English taxpayers, but so what? If I pay you a debt out of earned income the money originates with my employers. That doesn't mean they are paying you. I am.
Why shouldn't the Scottish Taxpayers take responsibility to pay the state pensions of Scottish Pensioners.
Would MalcolmG and co deem it fair if we offered the reverse terms to Scotland - you can have a referendum if you accept that on separation you pay the state pension of all rUK pensioners.
Because Scottish pensioners had a bargain with the UK government: they paid ni contributions in exchange for a future pension. If the UK splits and the obligation is split pro rata to size of country 95% of the obligation stays with rUK, and conversely iS is liable for 5% of e and w pensions.
No. They may have thought that they were paying NI contributions in exchange for a pension, but they were actually paying tax.
You're making the fundamental mistake of confusing private sector pensions (in which there exists a contractual obligation for the employer or provider to whom the contributions are being made to stump up on retirement) and the state pension (which is a social security benefit, no different at all to child benefit or JSA, for example, and which the Government can amend, and could theoretically decide to withdraw or replace entirely, at any time.)
Many British voters labour under the false assumption that national insurance payments all go into a massive pot to pay out contributory pensions to them, personally. Many British politicians have found it convenient from time to time to harp on about the contributory principle. But, to borrow a phrase, it's all rhubarb.
Therefore, whilst there are indeed pension complexities to be resolved (e.g. in respect of occupational pensions paid to UK state employees, or in cases where people have lived and worked for some time on both sides of the border,) for the majority of Scots who have never lived or worked outside of Scotland, the entire liability for funding their social security benefits - including state pensions - will be assumed by the Scottish Government upon independence. Nothing else makes any sense at all.
No, you are making the mistake. It makes no difference whether there is a pot or not *unless the paying party goes broke.* The UK cannot go broke.
NI contributions are effectively a contract under which UK has existing obligations which are not abrogated by Scindy. What is rhubarb, is saying that they are not contributions, they are just a thing which the naive and uninitiated might be misled into thinking were contributions, because of their slightly misleading name "contributions." Even if there were merit in the argument, which there isn't, would you be proud to live in a country which took such an unbelievably shitty point against poor, elderly individuals?
A lawyer claiming something is “effectively a contract” is admitting it *isn’t* a contract…
Yes. So what? If you want it spelled out, it would be a contract if the parties were private entities or corporations.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That's an interesting and complex one.
The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.
Judges giving decisions 'on points' is a relatively modern devlopment.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That’s a tricky one. In the sense that scoring is allegedly done when a punch connects and is agreed by two out of three judges, then at least I get the mechanism. But in truth for me, unless it’s to a knock out, no. It’s also regularly a laughing stock for bent judges, even at Olympic level.
It has actually been dropped from the LA Olymics 2028 because the IOC got fed up with the rigging.
'...Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner.'
Careful, Sandy. What about the LBW law?
And then there's the occasional dodgy catch, run out, no ball etc.
I've no doubt that Cricket is a proper sport, but there is definitely a subjective element in many decisions.
Even in the 100m the two fastest runners can sometimes be so evenly matched that there is a subjective element to who crossed the line first - hence a photo finish. But the judgement to be made is still a categorical one, one runner or the other was first, the catch was taken before the ball hit the ground, no part of the heel was behind the line, etc.
This is very different to deciding whether one skater executed the double-twist in a more pleasing way than another, or had a better sequence of moves, etc. Those are judgements where two performances can often be reasonably judged differently - which is why often a panel of judges is used, rather than a singular judge - and so there is not necessarily a truth as to which performance was best. While, with a catch, though it might be hard to say with certainty whether it was grassed or not, we know that it either was, or wasn't, if only we could observe it accurately.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
Her performance is indeed brilliant. Yours ? Less so.
'...Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner.'
Careful, Sandy. What about the LBW law?
And then there's the occasional dodgy catch, run out, no ball etc.
I've no doubt that Cricket is a proper sport, but there is definitely a subjective element in many decisions.
Even in the 100m the two fastest runners can sometimes be so evenly matched that there is a subjective element to who crossed the line first - hence a photo finish. But the judgement to be made is still a categorical one, one runner or the other was first, the catch was taken before the ball hit the ground, no part of the heel was behind the line, etc.
This is very different to deciding whether one skater executed the double-twist in a more pleasing way than another, or had a better sequence of moves, etc. Those are judgements where two performances can often be reasonably judged differently - which is why often a panel of judges is used, rather than a singular judge - and so there is not necessarily a truth as to which performance was best. While, with a catch, though it might be hard to say with certainty whether it was grassed or not, we know that it either was, or wasn't, if only we could observe it accurately.
Wouldn't be so much of an issue if artistic endeavours were recognised in the Olympics alongside sport again, as that would capture highly physical yet problematicallty subjective events.
Once you know people won Olympic Gold Medals for Town Planning, you don't really look at the competition the same way.
'...Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner.'
Careful, Sandy. What about the LBW law?
And then there's the occasional dodgy catch, run out, no ball etc.
I've no doubt that Cricket is a proper sport, but there is definitely a subjective element in many decisions.
Even in the 100m the two fastest runners can sometimes be so evenly matched that there is a subjective element to who crossed the line first - hence a photo finish. But the judgement to be made is still a categorical one, one runner or the other was first, the catch was taken before the ball hit the ground, no part of the heel was behind the line, etc.
This is very different to deciding whether one skater executed the double-twist in a more pleasing way than another, or had a better sequence of moves, etc. Those are judgements where two performances can often be reasonably judged differently - which is why often a panel of judges is used, rather than a singular judge - and so there is not necessarily a truth as to which performance was best. While, with a catch, though it might be hard to say with certainty whether it was grassed or not, we know that it either was, or wasn't, if only we could observe it accurately.
And LBW? And no-balls?
Some bowlers have distinctly dodgy actions - Muralitharan for example - and deciding whether they are legal is a highly subjective matter.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
Loving the way you get a derogatory white, and racism, into the same 4 sentence post. And the assumption that anyone can be arsed to click your link to ascertain the colour of the skater. Is she a white gammon?
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
'...Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner.'
Careful, Sandy. What about the LBW law?
And then there's the occasional dodgy catch, run out, no ball etc.
I've no doubt that Cricket is a proper sport, but there is definitely a subjective element in many decisions.
Even in the 100m the two fastest runners can sometimes be so evenly matched that there is a subjective element to who crossed the line first - hence a photo finish. But the judgement to be made is still a categorical one, one runner or the other was first, the catch was taken before the ball hit the ground, no part of the heel was behind the line, etc.
This is very different to deciding whether one skater executed the double-twist in a more pleasing way than another, or had a better sequence of moves, etc. Those are judgements where two performances can often be reasonably judged differently - which is why often a panel of judges is used, rather than a singular judge - and so there is not necessarily a truth as to which performance was best. While, with a catch, though it might be hard to say with certainty whether it was grassed or not, we know that it either was, or wasn't, if only we could observe it accurately.
And LBW? And no-balls?
Some bowlers have distinctly dodgy actions - Muralitharan for example - and deciding whether they are legal is a highly subjective matter.
I suppose a question here is whether subjective judgements are part of the discipline, and whether these are capable of challenge/verification, or if the entire outcome is solely a subjective determination.
I find the lind a bit blurry. I think diving qualifies, as though I struggle to know why one routine is a precise level more highly rated than another I can usually at least see it is challenging and can tell if it was well executed to some degree, but others would dispute that one. Gymnastics routines are judged subjectively but I'd feel excluding what is such impressive physical displays to feel a bit off. Horse Dancing may well be technically difficult to do, but I'd cut.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency. And an independent Scotland with a currency that is not independent is not an independent Scotland.
It's all part of a barmy charade in which Scotland (some of it) values its links with Lithuania more than with England, and wants to be free of wicked old England while losing its independence.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
The fate of various countries who tried pegging their currencies to the dollar, over the years, would be instructive.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
'...Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner.'
Careful, Sandy. What about the LBW law?
And then there's the occasional dodgy catch, run out, no ball etc.
I've no doubt that Cricket is a proper sport, but there is definitely a subjective element in many decisions.
Even in the 100m the two fastest runners can sometimes be so evenly matched that there is a subjective element to who crossed the line first - hence a photo finish. But the judgement to be made is still a categorical one, one runner or the other was first, the catch was taken before the ball hit the ground, no part of the heel was behind the line, etc.
This is very different to deciding whether one skater executed the double-twist in a more pleasing way than another, or had a better sequence of moves, etc. Those are judgements where two performances can often be reasonably judged differently - which is why often a panel of judges is used, rather than a singular judge - and so there is not necessarily a truth as to which performance was best. While, with a catch, though it might be hard to say with certainty whether it was grassed or not, we know that it either was, or wasn't, if only we could observe it accurately.
And LBW? And no-balls?
Some bowlers have distinctly dodgy actions - Muralitharan for example - and deciding whether they are legal is a highly subjective matter.
I suppose a question here is whether subjective judgements are part of the discipline, and whether these are capable of challenge/verification, or if the entire outcome is solely a subjective
I find the lind a bit blurry. I think diving qualifies, as though I struggle to know why one routine is a precise level more highly rated than another I can usually at least see it is challenging and can tell if it was well executed to some degree, but others would dispute that one. Gymnastics routines are judged subjectively but I'd feel excluding what is such impressive physical displays to feel a bit off. Horse Dancing may well be technically difficult to do, but I'd cut.
Yes it's a question of degree, and a continuum I would suggest. Foot races would be at one end, and syncronised swimming at the other (preferably off it, imo.)
Any subjectivity in the judging is a downer, but altheticism and tradition are positives. This helps gymnastics, and 'Horse Dancing' which I believe was one of the original sports in the ancient Greek Olympiads.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
She’s a figure skater, not a dancer like Torvill and Dean were.
I get the sense that judges in the Olympics are honest.
Boxing judges on the other hand...
The rules for figure skating are very precise and very demanding - it's not just judges saying "gosh, that looked nice" like you and me. I'm not a regular fan - just watched this as Heathener was recommending it - but I remember my mother was and she could reel off all the specific performances needed.
I guess that gymanstics and dressage are comparable - can't remember if dressage is an Olympcic sport, but fans do get excited about gymnastics. I think that it's fine to have a variety of types of physical brilliance at the Olympics, not just track and field. Something for (almost) everybody.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
Indeed not, but the last thing a newly-independent Scotland would want is a floating independent currency. Even the suggestion of it would lead to capital flight, and on launch day it would be smashed to bits.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That’s a tricky one. In the sense that scoring is allegedly done when a punch connects and is agreed by two out of three judges, then at least I get the mechanism. But in truth for me, unless it’s to a knock out, no. It’s also regularly a laughing stock for bent judges, even at Olympic level.
It has actually been dropped from the LA Olymics 2028 because the IOC got fed up with the rigging.
I think, examining the evidence, WWE wrestling is less staged and fixed than major boxing.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
The fate of various countries who tried pegging their currencies to the dollar, over the years, would be instructive.
The Gulf states do pretty well with a dollar peg - but most of their exports are dollar-denominated minerals.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
Glad to know what you really think, at least it isn’t me with the unhealty obsession with young ladies in sport.
Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner. You have umpires to make sure the runs are counted fairly, and that batsmen walk when they’re out. There’s very little subjectivity, especially now we use TV camera replays and ball tracking software.
Figure skating is now quite literally reality TV, alongside ballroom dancing. It doesn’t mean it’s not hard work, but as a sport it’s a waste of a good ice hockey rink.
Quite a lot of sports include human judgement of form - gymnastics, dressage, I think diving too.
I refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer I gave above. These are not sports, at least in the turbotubbs world.
And I repeat, cricket is not a REAL SPORT as they stand around in a field for five days on the trot!
'...Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner.'
Careful, Sandy. What about the LBW law?
And then there's the occasional dodgy catch, run out, no ball etc.
I've no doubt that Cricket is a proper sport, but there is definitely a subjective element in many decisions.
Even in the 100m the two fastest runners can sometimes be so evenly matched that there is a subjective element to who crossed the line first - hence a photo finish. But the judgement to be made is still a categorical one, one runner or the other was first, the catch was taken before the ball hit the ground, no part of the heel was behind the line, etc.
This is very different to deciding whether one skater executed the double-twist in a more pleasing way than another, or had a better sequence of moves, etc. Those are judgements where two performances can often be reasonably judged differently - which is why often a panel of judges is used, rather than a singular judge - and so there is not necessarily a truth as to which performance was best. While, with a catch, though it might be hard to say with certainty whether it was grassed or not, we know that it either was, or wasn't, if only we could observe it accurately.
And LBW? And no-balls?
Some bowlers have distinctly dodgy actions - Muralitharan for example - and deciding whether they are legal is a highly subjective matter.
I suppose a question here is whether subjective judgements are part of the discipline, and whether these are capable of challenge/verification, or if the entire outcome is solely a subjective
I find the lind a bit blurry. I think diving qualifies, as though I struggle to know why one routine is a precise level more highly rated than another I can usually at least see it is challenging and can tell if it was well executed to some degree, but others would dispute that one. Gymnastics routines are judged subjectively but I'd feel excluding what is such impressive physical displays to feel a bit off. Horse Dancing may well be technically difficult to do, but I'd cut.
Yes it's a question of degree, and a continuum I would suggest. Foot races would be at one end, and syncronised swimming at the other (preferably off it, imo.)
Any subjectivity in the judging is a downer, but altheticism and tradition are positives. This helps gymnastics, and 'Horse Dancing' which I believe was one of the original sports in the ancient Greek Olympiads.
Dressage is based on cavalry drills. More horse marching rather than dancing.
A rarity too in that men and women compete in the same contest.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That's an interesting and complex one.
The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.
Judges giving decisions 'on points' isBy a relatively modern devlopment.
I think in the pankration the victor actually lost if the loser died before the award ceremony. Mind you I am technically an ancient historian but I got that from a Mary Renault novel
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
In spite of my comments about cricket, I don't subscribe to the idea that the Olympics has to only be about hard and fast yes and no decision sports. It is worth remembering that artistic endeavour was included in the Olympic Games from 1912 to 1948. There were competitions in painting, sculpture, literature, architecture and music.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
She’s a figure skater, not a dancer like Torvill and Dean were.
I get the sense that judges in the Olympics are honest.
Boxing judges on the other hand...
The rules for figure skating are very precise and very demanding - it's not just judges saying "gosh, that looked nice" like you and me. I'm not a regular fan - just watched this as Heathener was recommending it - but I remember my mother was and she could reel off all the specific performances needed.
I guess that gymanstics and dressage are comparable - can't remember if dressage is an Olympcic sport, but fans do get excited about gymnastics. I think that it's fine to have a variety of types of physical brilliance at the Olympics, not just track and field. Something for (almost) everybody.
Dressage (aka horse-dancing) is definitely in the Olympics...
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That's an interesting and complex one.
The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.
Judges giving decisions 'on points' is a relatively modern devlopment.
I've heard it said that there is some interesting (from the MMA types) in bringing a form of Pankration back to the Olympics...
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
There are lines all over the place in cricket - the boundary, the popping crease, three great big sticks of wood stuck into the ground. It's all lines, so that it's all categorical judgements rather than qualitative ones.
LBW?
Is a decision made based on lines again. And these days because it is difficult to do with just the naked eye at the highest level it is backed up by technology. There is no decision based on artistic merit.
Gymnastics would have to go too of course.
As I just said I don't agree with those who think that there should be no artistic element in sports. I was just correcting Sunil on his profound ignorance and lack of appreciation for the greatest sport on Earth.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
In spite of my comments about cricket, I don't subscribe to the idea that the Olympics has to only be about hard and fast yes and no decision sports. It is worth remembering that artistic endeavour was included in the Olympic Games from 1912 to 1948. There were competitions in painting, sculpture, literature, architecture and music.
Mrs P. is currently watching The Great Pottery Throw Down, which as we all know is an Olympic sport for 2024.
The Sunday Times @thesundaytimes NEW: Carrie Johnson has accused “bitter ex-officials” of trying to discredit her with explosive claims that her meddling in government has contributed to the chaos engulfing her husband’s premiership
Her accusation that bitter ex-officials are trying to discredit her can be true without making their claims untrue, though one would hope there is more than rumour or hearsay to substantiate it.
Quite.
I think the Sunday times said (but can't find it) that they had THREE sources saying Carrie has now decided enough is enough and wants to throw in the towel. What with that and pressure on MPs to get letters in before the 10 day recess starting Thursday I expect next week to be interesting
Sorry, but before I get my hopes up I'll remind you that people have been saying "the next few days!" for many weeks.
That is a pretty exciting rumour though. If Carrie has decided, that's it. Dignified resignation imminent. No point in waiting till he gets fined or Cummings reveals more scandals.
Surely if Carrie has decided she has had enough, she leaves Boris.
He's not going to quit - some poor schmuck will feel sorry for him (they may even get their violin out), so he won't be alone for long.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
Indeed not, but the last thing a newly-independent Scotland would want is a floating independent currency. Even the suggestion of it would lead to capital flight, and on launch day it would be smashed to bits.
if you are pegged to the Euro, and the ECB stands behind it (guarantees its equivalent value) then you are in the Euro for all practical purposes.
Which means
(a) The Euro is the only option +EU is the only option. No other currency is a candidate and the pound is obviously out
which also means
(b) Hard border at Gretna and Berwick for reasons of SM, FOM, currency, smuggling etc.
From my bit of England, from which Scotland can be clearly seen, this is sub optimal. And maybe not only me.
The Sunday Times @thesundaytimes NEW: Carrie Johnson has accused “bitter ex-officials” of trying to discredit her with explosive claims that her meddling in government has contributed to the chaos engulfing her husband’s premiership
Her accusation that bitter ex-officials are trying to discredit her can be true without making their claims untrue, though one would hope there is more than rumour or hearsay to substantiate it.
Quite.
I think the Sunday times said (but can't find it) that they had THREE sources saying Carrie has now decided enough is enough and wants to throw in the towel. What with that and pressure on MPs to get letters in before the 10 day recess starting Thursday I expect next week to be interesting
Sorry, but before I get my hopes up I'll remind you that people have been saying "the next few days!" for many weeks.
That is a pretty exciting rumour though. If Carrie has decided, that's it. Dignified resignation imminent. No point in waiting till he gets fined or Cummings reveals more scandals.
Surely if Carrie has decided she has had enough, she leaves Boris.
He's not going to quit - some poor schmuck will feel sorry for him (they may even get their violin out), so he won't be alone for long.
Nadine would take him in.
If you have been affected by the issues raised by that post...
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
Indeed not, but the last thing a newly-independent Scotland would want is a floating independent currency. Even the suggestion of it would lead to capital flight, and on launch day it would be smashed to bits.
if you are pegged to the Euro, and the ECB stands behind it (guarantees its equivalent value) then you are in the Euro for all practical purposes.
Which means
(a) The Euro is the only option +EU is the only option. No other currency is a candidate and the pound is obviously out
which also means
(b) Hard border at Gretna and Berwick for reasons of SM, FOM, currency, smuggling etc.
From my bit of England, from which Scotland can be clearly seen, this is sub optimal. And maybe not only me.
Ireland is in the Ero, yet we insist there be no hard border. Why would Scotland be different?
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
In spite of my comments about cricket, I don't subscribe to the idea that the Olympics has to only be about hard and fast yes and no decision sports. It is worth remembering that artistic endeavour was included in the Olympic Games from 1912 to 1948. There were competitions in painting, sculpture, literature, architecture and music.
Mrs P. is currently watching The Great Pottery Throw Down, which as we all know is an Olympic sport for 2024.
I'm waiting for the horseback on ice pottery throwdown version.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
Indeed not, but the last thing a newly-independent Scotland would want is a floating independent currency. Even the suggestion of it would lead to capital flight, and on launch day it would be smashed to bits.
if you are pegged to the Euro, and the ECB stands behind it (guarantees its equivalent value) then you are in the Euro for all practical purposes.
Which means
(a) The Euro is the only option +EU is the only option. No other currency is a candidate and the pound is obviously out
which also means
(b) Hard border at Gretna and Berwick for reasons of SM, FOM, currency, smuggling etc.
From my bit of England, from which Scotland can be clearly seen, this is sub optimal. And maybe not only me.
Ireland is in the Ero, yet we insist there be no hard border. Why would Scotland be different?
Scotland in the Euro seems quite viable to me.
Actually the EU do insist there is a hard border. They just insist it is down the Irish Sea. Not an option when it comes to Scotland.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That's an interesting and complex one.
The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.
Judges giving decisions 'on points' is a relatively modern devlopment.
I've heard it said that there is some interesting (from the MMA types) in bringing a form of Pankration back to the Olympics...
Not an expert on this but I think the Pankration was usually won on a walkover because everybody knew who the toughest guy was and nobody was prepared to risk their life trying to question it.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
Indeed not, but the last thing a newly-independent Scotland would want is a floating independent currency. Even the suggestion of it would lead to capital flight, and on launch day it would be smashed to bits.
if you are pegged to the Euro, and the ECB stands behind it (guarantees its equivalent value) then you are in the Euro for all practical purposes.
Which means
(a) The Euro is the only option +EU is the only option. No other currency is a candidate and the pound is obviously out
which also means
(b) Hard border at Gretna and Berwick for reasons of SM, FOM, currency, smuggling etc.
From my bit of England, from which Scotland can be clearly seen, this is sub optimal. And maybe not only me.
Ireland is in the Ero, yet we insist there be no hard border. Why would Scotland be different?
Scotland in the Euro seems quite viable to me.
Only if rUK has a free trade agreement with the EU.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
Indeed not, but the last thing a newly-independent Scotland would want is a floating independent currency. Even the suggestion of it would lead to capital flight, and on launch day it would be smashed to bits.
if you are pegged to the Euro, and the ECB stands behind it (guarantees its equivalent value) then you are in the Euro for all practical purposes.
Which means
(a) The Euro is the only option +EU is the only option. No other currency is a candidate and the pound is obviously out
which also means
(b) Hard border at Gretna and Berwick for reasons of SM, FOM, currency, smuggling etc.
From my bit of England, from which Scotland can be clearly seen, this is sub optimal. And maybe not only me.
Yes, Scotland joining the EU leaves a very big question over what the border looks like. As we have seen, the EU have a very strict view of what the external border of their customs union looks like.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
Indeed not, but the last thing a newly-independent Scotland would want is a floating independent currency. Even the suggestion of it would lead to capital flight, and on launch day it would be smashed to bits.
if you are pegged to the Euro, and the ECB stands behind it (guarantees its equivalent value) then you are in the Euro for all practical purposes.
Which means
(a) The Euro is the only option +EU is the only option. No other currency is a candidate and the pound is obviously out
which also means
(b) Hard border at Gretna and Berwick for reasons of SM, FOM, currency, smuggling etc.
From my bit of England, from which Scotland can be clearly seen, this is sub optimal. And maybe not only me.
Ireland is in the Ero, yet we insist there be no hard border. Why would Scotland be different?
Scotland in the Euro seems quite viable to me.
Actually the EU do insist there is a hard border. They just insist it is down the Irish Sea. Not an option when it comes to Scotland.
Yes but the UK insists there needs to be neither, and that there are other ways.
I actually agree with you, it is just government policy to ignore it.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
Interesting. Are we being racist towards her because she is Russian, or because she is Tatar? And you choose to use a racist term towards white people.
Maybe some people just don't get figure skating, just as some people don't get cricket.
(Personally I think it is a fine performance, and she is a great athlete. You have to be fit to do that sort of thing)
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That's an interesting and complex one.
The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.
Judges giving decisions 'on points' isBy a relatively modern devlopment.
I think in the pankration the victor actually lost if the loser died before the award ceremony. Mind you I am technically an ancient historian but I got that from a Mary Renault novel
No, I think you have that slightly the wrong way round. The winner was sometimes so badly injured that he died afetr the event and had to be given his medal posthumously.
Scottish deficit: 22% of GDP UK deficit: 14% of GDP
Nobody knows the real numbers, certainly not the crooks running teh show. They use fag packets to work it out. Anyone thinking otherwise is not right in the head.
Well, you can work out quite a lot from OECD, IMF and World Bank numbers and they are pretty consistent. So, while you might not like the numbers, the reality is that Scotland would need to go through at least 2 decades of restructuring which would be difficult and painful and you can´t just wish that away. You may think it is worth the pain and that is fair enough, but too many Nats just pretend that its unicorns and rainbows all the way from the day we go it alone, and the "RUK will pay our pensions at no cost to the Scottish government" is just the latest example of wildly wishful thinking. I´d respect the Nat position a lot more if they were honest: "it will be hard, but worth it" rather than "we are so fantastic that it will be easy and the gold rolls in from day one", which is nonsense on stilts and as dishonest as the Tories over Brexit.
The wishful thinking on pensions here is all by unionists, no Scottish person has said anything of the sort.I am happy to go with the fact that all small countries are doing very well with far less resources than Scotland and as you say given we have been ripped off for so long in UK , it will take a while to build up infrastructure, however again I look at all th eeastern European countries who started from scratch not so long ago and nearly all have better livin standards than the UK, so no real issue there either. You lot should be more concerned how rump UK will survive and be able to pay its debts once all the services are gone abroad and there is little left other than flipping burgers or civil service/council jobs.
There you go again... It is not the case that any of the CEE states has yet acheived economic numbers anywhere close to the UK, and I have been involved in this region for over 40 years in one way or another. Slovenia, the wealthiest CEE economy per capita had in 2020 a GDP/capita of USD 25,459 and the UK USD 40, 428. Bulgaria´s 2020 GDP/capita was only USD 10,006. These by the way are pretty good numbers and reflect nearly 3 decades of economic restructuring and growth.
So nice try, but provably untrue. Scotland and the rest of the UK may have significant structural issues, but the UK economy remains large, diverse and, depending on your source, is between the fifth and seventh largest economy in the world. Again I´d have a bit more respect for the Nat position if they did not keep spouting such mince. Bad tempered bollocks is not a credible economic or political argument. Sure Scotland "could" be an independent country, but the price is high and in my view is not worth it. If, instead of dismissing the facts, you admitted them and told us how you were going to deal with them then maybe you could make a case, but the truth is that pretending these serious problems don´t exist destroys the credibility of any other arguement you make.
I am not sure who these "Nats" you speak of , however on CEE you need to get a grip, what does GDP have to do with it , why did you omit standard of living. One little example, in Bulgaria you can have 3 years maternity leave, full pay yaer 1 , minimum wage year 2 , self funded year 3. Poor indeed compared to our wonderful UK deal. Your other mince re how I am going to deal with tehm, hint , I am not and never will be in teh Government running Scotland. The government running Scotland after independence will publish their plans which you will be able to read. Not wild swivelled eyed ramblings of half witted numpties who think they are experts on the world, but teh real peole enacting it.
OK "Nats" are "the parties that advocate Scottish independence", and while I appreciate that you left the SNP it is still a reasonable short hand.
Your point about "living standards" still does not hold water, since there is an economic number that adjusts national income based on lower levels of costs overall in less developed economies, GDP at "purchasing power parity" (PPP), and it is true that the CEE states are a bit closer to the UK GDP/capita based on PPP, but still not that much closer. Economists argue over how much social welfare legislation can be said to improve economic well being, but with regards to Bulgaria, its a moot point because the country still has a very low GDP/capita overall, so even if such things did improve "living standards" its nowhere near enough to bring the Bulgarian GDP/capita anywhere close to the UK. On a PPP basis the Bulgarian GDP/capita is c USD 17,200 versus the UK´s USD 32,077.
And, just to make a further point, I have been an analyst and economic advisor to several governments in the region over the years and do in fact speak several of the local languages, so I am not sure what kind of further grip you are looking for concerning CEE. I have worked very closely with "real people" in developing polcies that have generally worked. Obviously I therefore take a personal interest in the policy documents put out so far in Scotland and I have to say that they consistently fail to address critical economic issues. The reality is that Scottish independence comes at a significant economic price, and if basic questions of policy: currency management, deficit financing and the structure of economic growth are not addressed then it can hardly be a surprise that any programme for the economy of an independent Scotland is greeted with scepticism. Its not good enough to say "you´ll see it when we enact it", the Scottish voters deserve to see, understand and engage with a separatist economic programme. You are right that the SNP programme put forward in the white paper at the referendum was wooly wish fulfillment. As of now, I see no eveidence that this has moved on towards a responsible and coherrent economic programme. The fact that the SNP in particular try and avoid discussing, for example, the future of the financial sector is simply stupid.
So there we are, unless you can tell us what the menu with prices offers in your economic programme, then we are perfectly entitled to dismiss it as either mistaken or dishonest. As I keep saying, if the Nats were prepared to come clean and say that separation would be difficult for quite some time but that it would be worth it then at least you´d get respect, but deriding people who have genuine and legitimate concerns about the economic impact of breaking up the UK eocnomy just makes the whole project look like a racket.
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
That’s a good piece. Also:
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
An independent currency pegged to another which 'stands behind it' is not an independent currency.
Indeed not, but the last thing a newly-independent Scotland would want is a floating independent currency. Even the suggestion of it would lead to capital flight, and on launch day it would be smashed to bits.
if you are pegged to the Euro, and the ECB stands behind it (guarantees its equivalent value) then you are in the Euro for all practical purposes.
Which means
(a) The Euro is the only option +EU is the only option. No other currency is a candidate and the pound is obviously out
which also means
(b) Hard border at Gretna and Berwick for reasons of SM, FOM, currency, smuggling etc.
From my bit of England, from which Scotland can be clearly seen, this is sub optimal. And maybe not only me.
Ireland is in the Ero, yet we insist there be no hard border. Why would Scotland be different?
Scotland in the Euro seems quite viable to me.
Actually the EU do insist there is a hard border. They just insist it is down the Irish Sea. Not an option when it comes to Scotland.
Agree. There is a further hidden point that the current EU/UK anomaly about the island of Ireland can be tolerated because everyone knows that in a secularising world where RoI is not a theocracy and most NI people are sane despite their leaders eventual unification of the single island is inevitable and Brexit is a spur to this outbreak of sanity. Whereas the splitting of Britain would cause a permanent anomaly with regard to both the island of Britain (look at a map) and EU/UK if Scotland was daft enough to go both independent and EU.
Oh my oh my Kamila Valieva is just astonishing. If you get a chance, do watch her performance today. At 15 she's the second youngest competitor at Beijing and the youngest figure skater but she has such presence on the ice and, as Robin Cousins said, such a believable honest performance. It's breathtaking to watch.
If you need a filip and escape from the arguing and a reaffirmation about human creativity ... watch.
Sadly not a real sport. If you need judges to tell you who won, it doesn’t count.
The Olympic motto is “Faster, Higher, Stronger”, not “Impress The Judges”.
Also slightly harder to rig things if someone, say, crosses a line first...
Formula 1 had a pretty good go at it, a couple of months back.
But yes, sporting results should be decided with a stopwatch or a tape measure.
You really are being an utter dick
So ... erm cricket?
Figure skating has a huge technical merit component.
But you know what ... I can't be bothered to sit here in a pointless argument with an old bit of gammon who knows nothing about culture and aesthetic beauty, creativity and human endeavour, sport and achievement.
Or indeed very much about anything in the world beyond their computer screen.
It really is quite bizarre how some old gammons just sit on here for a fight. Get a life.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That's an interesting and complex one.
The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.
Judges giving decisions 'on points' isBy a relatively modern devlopment.
I think in the pankration the victor actually lost if the loser died before the award ceremony. Mind you I am technically an ancient historian but I got that from a Mary Renault novel
No, I think you have that slightly the wrong way round. The winner was sometimes so badly injured that he died afetr the event and had to be given his medal posthumously.
Much less posh than Mary Renault but the ancient Greek tec novels of Gary Corby, pretty bad books but very readable, cover the pankration issue. Sacred Games is the one I think. Good mindless fun.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
just as some people don't get cricket.
Someday science will find a cure for this malady. Most current cures have a side effect of making people find political minutiae more interesting, though that also occurs naturally.
Funny how all the British Nationalists on here assume that the Scots currency will plummet but the £Britnat will be ok. It’s as if you all believe the Britnat propaganda about you being asset rich, whereas you are an underresourced, overpopulated rump of a disappeared empire. Fortunately, IndyScot will be able to bail you out.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That's an interesting and complex one.
The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.
Judges giving decisions 'on points' isBy a relatively modern devlopment.
I think in the pankration the victor actually lost if the loser died before the award ceremony. Mind you I am technically an ancient historian but I got that from a Mary Renault novel
No, I think you have that slightly the wrong way round. The winner was sometimes so badly injured that he died afetr the event and had to be given his medal posthumously.
Much less posh than Mary Renault but the ancient Greek tec novels of Gary Corby, pretty bad books but very readable, cover the pankration issue. Sacred Games is the one I think. Good mindless fun.
wiki has this
In an odd turn of events, a pankration fighter named Arrhichion (Ἀρριχίων) of Phigalia won the pankration competition at the Olympic Games despite being dead. His opponent had locked him in a chokehold and Arrhichion, desperate to loosen it, broke his opponent's toe (some records say his ankle). The opponent nearly passed out from pain and submitted. As the referee raised Arrhichion's hand, it was discovered that he had died from the chokehold. His body was crowned with the olive wreath and returned to Phigaleia as a hero.[citation needed]
Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?
Why is the use of the word gammon as a pejorative considered acceptable? Normally by the very same people who would keel over in shock at the hint of racial based language being used in any other instance?
Because it's against white people and the people you are talking about are fine with racism against white people. It is why no Labour MP calls for the ousting of Diane Abbott.
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Indeed. We might just as well have ballroom dancing in the Olympics.
Breakdancing is being trialed in 2024.
Well yes but I think that once you let syncronised swimming in you opened the door to all manner of trash-sport, so it's hard to argue against it.
Talking of which, can you believe they are still trying to get cricket into the summer games?
Funny how all the British Nationalists on here assume that the Scots currency will plummet but the £Britnat will be ok. It’s as if you all believe the Britnat propaganda about you being asset rich, whereas you are an underresourced, overpopulated rump of a disappeared empire. Fortunately, IndyScot will be able to bail you out.
Popualtion of Scotland is 8% of that of the UK, economy just 7% of it.
I don't think it's England would have the 'underresourced, overpopulated rump' problem...
p.s. The subtext behind the criticism of the performance is (of course) racism. The sad old gammon Brexiteers have demeaned themselves and this country.
I’ve not commented on the performance. The word itself is making my point. Ice dancing is just that - dancing. Astonishingly well executed dancing, but dancing none the less, and requiring judges, that may or may not be bent, to determine who won.
Do you consider boxing a sport ?
That's an interesting and complex one.
The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.
Judges giving decisions 'on points' isBy a relatively modern devlopment.
I think in the pankration the victor actually lost if the loser died before the award ceremony. Mind you I am technically an ancient historian but I got that from a Mary Renault novel
No, I think you have that slightly the wrong way round. The winner was sometimes so badly injured that he died afetr the event and had to be given his medal posthumously.
Not what Renault says in Last of the Wine. Don't have the text to hand but an online synopsis which accords with my memory says "Lysis is defeated and almost killed by an opponent who has no grace of form nor, apparently, any honor -- he has allowed himself to be shaped into a man with one purpose only, to win, and his concern for Lysis after their bout is only that if Lysis dies, he will be disqualified as victor." https://www.rambles.net/renault_lastwine56.html
Comments
The one exception, the one single exception, is the question of whether a batter is playing a shot - and can therefore be out LBW to a ball hitting their pads outside the line. But even this is a yes/no question, rather than as to how well they did or did not play a shot.
Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner. You have umpires to make sure the runs are counted fairly, and that batsmen walk when they’re out. There’s very little subjectivity, especially now we use TV camera replays and ball tracking software.
Figure skating is now quite literally reality TV, alongside ballroom dancing. It doesn’t mean it’s not hard work, but as a sport it’s a waste of a good ice hockey rink.
Small variations in voting intention lead to calls for endless re-runs as we have seen for both Sindy and Brexit. 60% threshold for major constitutional change.
I always thought the Olympic Committee crosed a line when it admitted Synchronised Swimming, but then it's not even pretty so any pretence that it is a sport falls flat for me.
What’s the racism angle here?
And I daresay England could field a team that would be quite good at it, led by Ian Botham...
He's not going to quit - some poor schmuck will feel sorry for him (they may even get their violin out), so he won't be alone for long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsVTpX7LdZQ
Are we on about the scrum in the rugby ?
Of course at the same time obtaining freedom from the British Union but then immediately surrendering it again for the European Union is just fecking stupid.
https://www.economicsobservatory.com/what-would-the-currency-options-be-for-an-independent-scotland
it concludes:
For a newly independent Scotland with a balance of payments deficit and fiscal deficit, the initial currency depreciation could be steep, with knock-on implications for the value of assets and liabilities denominated in sterling. Issues of redenomination and transactions costs would loom large.
But this currency thistle of redenomination has to be grasped at some point on the journey to Scottish independence. The message of this article is that if Scotland is to become independent, the sooner this is addressed, the better given the way that capital markets operate in a globalised economy.
https://www.cricketcountry.com/articles/ian-botham-lets-the-old-man-out-on-his-final-day-in-first-class-cricket-159325
I get the sense that judges in the Olympics are honest.
Boxing judges on the other hand...
'...Cricket is really easy, you count runs and the team with the most of them is the winner.'
Careful, Sandy. What about the LBW law?
And then there's the occasional dodgy catch, run out, no ball etc.
I've no doubt that Cricket is a proper sport, but there is definitely a subjective element in many decisions.
“ As other countries’ experiences demonstrate, the only sustainable way to preserve the fixed exchange rate relationship would be to run a fiscal surplus (see Tetlow and Soter, 2021). But this would require a significant programme of fiscal consolidation from Scotland’s likely initial starting position (with knock-on implications for policy choices post-independence).“
In practice, the only way the currency issue gets resolved without a large depreciation, is a peg to the Euro on Day 1, with the ECB standing behind that peg.
The further back in history you go the less subjectivity there was in deciding who won. Time was when you just kept going until the opponent was senseless, if not actually dead.
Judges giving decisions 'on points' is a relatively modern devlopment.
This is very different to deciding whether one skater executed the double-twist in a more pleasing way than another, or had a better sequence of moves, etc. Those are judgements where two performances can often be reasonably judged differently - which is why often a panel of judges is used, rather than a singular judge - and so there is not necessarily a truth as to which performance was best. While, with a catch, though it might be hard to say with certainty whether it was grassed or not, we know that it either was, or wasn't, if only we could observe it accurately.
Once you know people won Olympic Gold Medals for Town Planning, you don't really look at the competition the same way.
Some bowlers have distinctly dodgy actions - Muralitharan for example - and deciding whether they are legal is a highly subjective matter.
One of may favourite cricketers of all time. Wonderful batsman
I find the lind a bit blurry. I think diving qualifies, as though I struggle to know why one routine is a precise level more highly rated than another I can usually at least see it is challenging and can tell if it was well executed to some degree, but others would dispute that one. Gymnastics routines are judged subjectively but I'd feel excluding what is such impressive physical displays to feel a bit off. Horse Dancing may well be technically difficult to do, but I'd cut.
It's all part of a barmy charade in which Scotland (some of it) values its links with Lithuania more than with England, and wants to be free of wicked old England while losing its independence.
England is its largest market.
Any subjectivity in the judging is a downer, but altheticism and tradition are positives. This helps gymnastics, and 'Horse Dancing' which I believe was one of the original sports in the ancient Greek Olympiads.
I guess that gymanstics and dressage are comparable - can't remember if dressage is an Olympcic sport, but fans do get excited about gymnastics. I think that it's fine to have a variety of types of physical brilliance at the Olympics, not just track and field. Something for (almost) everybody.
A rarity too in that men and women compete in the same contest.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/27/charlotte-dujardin-wins-record-fifth-olympic-medal-in-dressage
Which means
(a) The Euro is the only option +EU is the only option. No other currency is a candidate and the pound is obviously out
which also means
(b) Hard border at Gretna and Berwick for reasons of SM, FOM, currency, smuggling etc.
From my bit of England, from which Scotland can be clearly seen, this is sub optimal. And maybe not only me.
Scotland in the Euro seems quite viable to me.
I actually agree with you, it is just government policy to ignore it.
Maybe some people just don't get figure skating, just as some people don't get cricket.
(Personally I think it is a fine performance, and she is a great athlete. You have to be fit to do that sort of thing)
Your point about "living standards" still does not hold water, since there is an economic number that adjusts national income based on lower levels of costs overall in less developed economies, GDP at "purchasing power parity" (PPP), and it is true that the CEE states are a bit closer to the UK GDP/capita based on PPP, but still not that much closer. Economists argue over how much social welfare legislation can be said to improve economic well being, but with regards to Bulgaria, its a moot point because the country still has a very low GDP/capita overall, so even if such things did improve "living standards" its nowhere near enough to bring the Bulgarian GDP/capita anywhere close to the UK. On a PPP basis the Bulgarian GDP/capita is c USD 17,200 versus the UK´s USD 32,077.
And, just to make a further point, I have been an analyst and economic advisor to several governments in the region over the years and do in fact speak several of the local languages, so I am not sure what kind of further grip you are looking for concerning CEE. I have worked very closely with "real people" in developing polcies that have generally worked. Obviously I therefore take a personal interest in the policy documents put out so far in Scotland and I have to say that they consistently fail to address critical economic issues. The reality is that Scottish independence comes at a significant economic price, and if basic questions of policy: currency management, deficit financing and the structure of economic growth are not addressed then it can hardly be a surprise that any programme for the economy of an independent Scotland is greeted with scepticism. Its not good enough to say "you´ll see it when we enact it", the Scottish voters deserve to see, understand and engage with a separatist economic programme. You are right that the SNP programme put forward in the white paper at the referendum was wooly wish fulfillment. As of now, I see no eveidence that this has moved on towards a responsible and coherrent economic programme. The fact that the SNP in particular try and avoid discussing, for example, the future of the financial sector is simply stupid.
So there we are, unless you can tell us what the menu with prices offers in your economic programme, then we are perfectly entitled to dismiss it as either mistaken or dishonest. As I keep saying, if the Nats were prepared to come clean and say that separation would be difficult for quite some time but that it would be worth it then at least you´d get respect, but deriding people who have genuine and legitimate concerns about the economic impact of breaking up the UK eocnomy just makes the whole project look like a racket.
#nevergiveup
In an odd turn of events, a pankration fighter named Arrhichion (Ἀρριχίων) of Phigalia won the pankration competition at the Olympic Games despite being dead. His opponent had locked him in a chokehold and Arrhichion, desperate to loosen it, broke his opponent's toe (some records say his ankle). The opponent nearly passed out from pain and submitted. As the referee raised Arrhichion's hand, it was discovered that he had died from the chokehold. His body was crowned with the olive wreath and returned to Phigaleia as a hero.[citation needed]
[citation needed] indeed
"Queen backs Carrie to be PM Consort"
...or maybe I am getting a bit muddled.
I don't think it's England would have the 'underresourced, overpopulated rump' problem...