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The PM’s branding Starmer as “a lawyer” hardly a negative – politicalbetting.com

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    One thing I don't understand: If the Sue Gray report is delayed until Monday how on Earth do @10DowningStreet @BorisJohnson think they will prevent a leak? Every Civil Servant in No10 & CO has skin in the game. Every Sunday journalist will be ordered to get it

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1486391611269566468?s=20

    I expect any leaking of information that is subject to a criminal investigation could be quite serious for the leaker
    You support governments that leak to the press daily like a sieve.
    I do not support leaks to the press from any source

    To qualify

    Unless it is in the public interest
    The problem is there are lots of thing you say you are against. The government continue to do them blatantly, the latest example being leaking the police investigation to guido yesterday but not informing the cabinet. And yet you still will end up voting for them.

    What is in it for them to change?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    UK R

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,032
    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    KABOOM.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — AP sources: Liberal Justice Stephen Breyer will retire, giving Joe Biden the 1st Supreme Court pick of his presidency.

    At last. Biden gets a break.

    Breyer is a Liberal anyway, nominated by Bill Clinton, so Biden would just be replacing a liberal with a liberal
    Right, but the point is he can pick a 40 year old. So whilst it doesn’t change the composition, it still improves the Democrat position.
    40 year old? I heard he was going to pick a 12 year old.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2022

    Jon Craig of Sky saying the report by Sue Gray is held up because

    I) It is still with lawyers

    2) Consulting the civil service HR people

    3) Consulting with the Met police

    The Mail is reporting something rather different from that, to the effect that "Downing Street aides' lawyers are battling with Sue Gray".
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412

    @Leon

    Earlier you said cases are rising. Are you sure? Today’s number is slightly lower than last Wednesday’s.

    They seem flat?

    Yes, “flat” is probably a better description.

    However, i do not see any reason why we won’t follow Denmark and see an uptick in cases (hopefully less then theirs, as we have more natural immunity)

    BA2 is estimated as twice as transmissible as Omicron BA1 (which is already fearsomely infectious). By mid Feb, it is estimated, BA2 will dominate in the UK as it now dominates in Denmark.

    It seems that BA2 quite easily reinfects people. Prior infection is not a great obstacle. That is not brilliant. It is also, it seems, not great for kids. However on the whole, looking at Danish ICU numbers, it does not seem any more virulent than BA1, quite possibly less so (tho we cannot be sure, yet). Perhaps this is the next stage in Covid slowly declining to endemic status

    Nonetheless we can expect a bumpy exit from the pandemic
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    The Tory lead on managing the economy is down to 6 points with YouGov - the smallest lead I can find on this question.

    Long run this is going to be more significant than the parties.

    For comparison, in April 1997 the Tories held a 7 point lead on a (similar) question.


    In March 2020 the Tories held a 39 point lead on that question...so quite a shift.


    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1486399804141981708
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    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,166

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Laura Pidcock resigns from the NEC after a motion to restore the Labour whip for Jeremy Corbyn was defeated at a meeting yesterday https://twitter.com/LauraPidcock/status/1486390792692408321

    Looking at everything in this sentence.

    From the point of view of Starmer and the Labour party getting a majority.

    Nothing of value was lost, by this.
    Indeed - quite a rude shock that Pidders was still in a position of any influence. I'm glad that she isn't now, of course. But it does make me wonder how many others there still are.
    What Starmer is doing, is a process, not a single event.
    Every time the far left try to undermine Starmer Labour's polling goes up.
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    Not sure what circles you move in Mr Smithson but if Johnson can paint Starmer as a lawyer who will argue anything whether he believes it or not as most lawyers do it will be very effective indeed
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    Case summary

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    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    kle4 said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    MrBristol said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Never even heard of Wordle until this week, is it new or just newly popular?

    Started in Autumn according to the Guardian, but it's only recently taken off once they added the "copy results in coloured squares" function.

    https://www.theguardian.com/games/2022/jan/11/wordle-creator-overwhelmed-by-global-success-of-hit-puzzle
    It's an interesting case study in how things become popular on the internet, particularly when you compare it with other similarly minimalist word games, such as Guess My Word which doesn't have a way of sharing your performance in a graphically pleasing way without spoiling the game for others. It does have a cool word cloud you can look at of other people's guesses, but that very obviously acts as a spoiler.
    Wordle is an interesting game, but more interesting is how it is a complete clone of Lingo TV show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(American_game_show)) yet this seems to go unnoticed by the media. I guess that makes it a less interesting story.

    I learned the other day that Countdown is a copy of a French show, which rocked me to my core.
    The Crystal Maze, too.
    What?!

    Gods, what has become of us as a nation? I don't know who we even our anymore.
    Well, maybe not a copy as such: they wanted to make a British version of Fort Boyard, but the fort was unavailable for filming because of refurbishment, and the replica they built at Elstree didn't work, so the creator came up with the Crystal Maze as an equivalent.

    Melinda Messenger and Leslie Grantham came later.
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    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,166
    You know, there's a possible world out there where Pidcock held her seat and went on to win the Labour leadership. I guess the voters of NW Durham did Labour a huge favour in derailing Pidcock's career.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,032
    MrEd said:

    KABOOM.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — AP sources: Liberal Justice Stephen Breyer will retire, giving Joe Biden the 1st Supreme Court pick of his presidency.

    At last. Biden gets a break.

    A couple of thoughts (I'm assuming Breyer has been persuaded to step down):

    1. Suggests the Democrats are less confident of holding the Senate, which is a fair enough assumption given the current polling;

    2. Does this mean Kamala Harris is being lined up to step down as VP and is nominated to the SC? Biden has pretty much promised to appoint a Black Woman. Big problems are (1) if Harris steps down, it is 50-50 in the Senate with no tie-break and (2) a new VP has to be appointed by both Houses and Biden wouldn't have a majority if Harris steps down. Can Harris stay in the Senate and vote for a successor and then step down? That would get over the hurdles, as the new VP would vote for Harris to the SC. However, not sure whether that would happen - 25th seems to suggest you need a vacancy.



    1 is obvious. It is extremely hard for the Dems to hold the Senate. I would expect them to drop one, possibly two seats. (They are lucky that 2016 wasn't a great year for them.)

    I don't think 2 is true. Harris doesn't want to be a Supreme Court justice, she wants to be President of the United States. And when you have a doddery 78 year old in that position, her chance of making it (for however short a period of time) is pretty good.
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    One thing I don't understand: If the Sue Gray report is delayed until Monday how on Earth do @10DowningStreet @BorisJohnson think they will prevent a leak? Every Civil Servant in No10 & CO has skin in the game. Every Sunday journalist will be ordered to get it

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1486391611269566468?s=20

    I expect any leaking of information that is subject to a criminal investigation could be quite serious for the leaker
    You support governments that leak to the press daily like a sieve.
    I do not support leaks to the press from any source

    To qualify

    Unless it is in the public interest
    The problem is there are lots of thing you say you are against. The government continue to do them blatantly, the latest example being leaking the police investigation to guido yesterday but not informing the cabinet. And yet you still will end up voting for them.

    What is in it for them to change?
    I am not a conservative member and would refer you to my post yesterday when I said that I would abstain or vote Lib Dem
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,271
    I wonder if our Scottish contingent have seen this

    https://twitter.com/scottish_future/status/1484149341048737793?s=21
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    Hospitals

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,759
    Roger said:

    Just been listening to Chris Bryant answering a statement from Johnson about dogs being given priority to leave Kabul and it was impossible to believe Johnson

    It's like watching a movie where the lead character plays an inveterate liar. You can't see him any other way. That's going to be quite something for the government to deal with if he stays on

    Never been a massive fan of Bryant, but I have to acknowledge in recent years he has been excellent in holding government to account. He has learned to do both the forensic and political stuff very well. (Much better than Starmer recently.)
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    Deaths

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,032

    KABOOM.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — AP sources: Liberal Justice Stephen Breyer will retire, giving Joe Biden the 1st Supreme Court pick of his presidency.

    Not, surely, a huge surprise?

    Unless Democrats had been very confident of advancing in the Senate in November (something I don't actually rule out as the map isn't bad for them, but which is unlikely) this was always on the cards given Breyer is 83 years old. It would have been a huge gamble to risk it and, no matter how dedicated he is, he'd surely like a bit of a retirement.

    The narrow position in the Senate shouldn't be a problem. Manchin and Sinema are awkward on substantive legislation, but it'd be very surprising if they voted against confirmation of a justice nominated by Biden unless he/she has some extremely big flaw. And Collins and Murkowski are both highly possible confirmation votes in a close one.

    Manchin in particular couldn't really veto on ideological grounds even if the choice was a bit more liberal than he'd like - his whole point with confirming Kavanaugh was that he DIDN'T agree with him on a political level (or "judicial philosophy" level if you want to put a gloss on it) but Trump had the constitutional right to nominate and the sexual assault allegations were unproven so ultimately he had no grounds not to wave it through (and he gave Gorsuch the nod on the same basis, albeit he was fundamentally a pretty uncontroversial pick - maybe the least provocative thing Trump did in his time in office). All Democrats, Manchin and Sinema included, voted against Coney Barrett as it directly contradicted the precedent set for Garland in 2016.
    Spot on.

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    Not sure what circles you move in Mr Smithson but if Johnson can paint Starmer as a lawyer who will argue anything whether he believes it or not as most lawyers do it will be very effective indeed

    Hehe, this is the PM, who facing the biggest decision the UK has made in a generation, ambivalently wrote a pro-EU argument and a pro Brexit argument for the Telegraph, and chose the Brexit one not because it was better for the country, but because it was better for him.
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    MrBristol said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Never even heard of Wordle until this week, is it new or just newly popular?

    Started in Autumn according to the Guardian, but it's only recently taken off once they added the "copy results in coloured squares" function.

    https://www.theguardian.com/games/2022/jan/11/wordle-creator-overwhelmed-by-global-success-of-hit-puzzle
    It's an interesting case study in how things become popular on the internet, particularly when you compare it with other similarly minimalist word games, such as Guess My Word which doesn't have a way of sharing your performance in a graphically pleasing way without spoiling the game for others. It does have a cool word cloud you can look at of other people's guesses, but that very obviously acts as a spoiler.
    Wordle is an interesting game, but more interesting is how it is a complete clone of Lingo TV show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(American_game_show)) yet this seems to go unnoticed by the media. I guess that makes it a less interesting story.

    Lingo is on ITV at 3pm weekdays, hosted by Adil Ray (aka. Citizen Khan).
    No wonder the streets are empty.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2022
    "Sue Gray wrangles with Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    Age related data

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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    Barnesian said:

    @Leon

    Earlier you said cases are rising. Are you sure? Today’s number is slightly lower than last Wednesday’s.

    They seem flat?

    The seven day moving average of cases has risen for the last three days and now equals that of a week ago (i.e. the previous 7 days.)

    102292 95869 Jan 25th
    94326 94746
    88447 93332
    74799 90829
    95787 91817
    107364 92369
    108069 92622
    94432 95696 Jan18th
    84429 99466
    70924 107722
    81713 117800
    99652 127040
    109133 138268

    Worth noting in the context of the REACT trial, that these don't include* re-infections, which may outnumber first infections as much as 2:1.

    BBC News - Two-thirds with Omicron say they have had Covid before
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60132096

    * Except Wales, where they are included.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,821
    Here's the thing with the too much going on to change now argument. It's rubbish.

    Even discounting Boris paralysis from this, all the big stuff being done at the moment is operational - Ukraine, treasury work on energy bills. COVID relaxation. There is no grand project stuff that will die with Boris.

    On Ukraine, if Boris stays or goes immediately and, say, Raab interims, policy approach doesn't change. On the treasury stuff, stay or go, Rishi will want to.look OK, on COVID relaxation the course seems set. (In fact, if Boris goes, it shows up his big stuff defence as disingenuous anyway).

    So, what gives? What exactly does a leadership election do to disrupt any of these things?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,875
    edited January 2022
    Taz said:

    I wonder if our Scottish contingent have seen this

    https://twitter.com/scottish_future/status/1484149341048737793?s=21

    Only about 5 million times. Mr Brown has been Interrrvening for what seems like the entire period since the Jurassic.

    It's basically Mr Brown's pet [edit] operation. And since his promises of more federalism than would fill a supertanker, it's not going to be very credible.

    But thank you anyway for drawing it to our attention.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    COVID Summary

    - Cases up slights. R is above 1. This is down to cases in the younger groups as before. There seems to be three groups here now. The youngest and unvaccinated. The 15-45s in the middle (around R=1) , and a third group of the 45+ who have an R below 1.

    image

    - Admissions. Down.
    - MV beds. Down
    - In hospital. Down
    - Deaths. Indication of the start of a fall. Possibly.

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,759
    Pro_Rata said:

    Here's the thing with the too much going on to change now argument. It's rubbish.

    Even discounting Boris paralysis from this, all the big stuff being done at the moment is operational - Ukraine, treasury work on energy bills. COVID relaxation. There is no grand project stuff that will die with Boris.

    On Ukraine, if Boris stays or goes immediately and, say, Raab interims, policy approach doesn't change. On the treasury stuff, stay or go, Rishi will want to.look OK, on COVID relaxation the course seems set. (In fact, if Boris goes, it shows up his big stuff defence as disingenuous anyway).

    So, what gives? What exactly does a leadership election do to disrupt any of these things?

    Nothing.
    And note that Labour are in lockstep with the government on Ukraine.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,384
    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:

    @Leon

    Earlier you said cases are rising. Are you sure? Today’s number is slightly lower than last Wednesday’s.

    They seem flat?

    The seven day moving average of cases has risen for the last three days and now equals that of a week ago (i.e. the previous 7 days.)

    102292 95869 Jan 25th
    94326 94746
    88447 93332
    74799 90829
    95787 91817
    107364 92369
    108069 92622
    94432 95696 Jan18th
    84429 99466
    70924 107722
    81713 117800
    99652 127040
    109133 138268

    Worth noting in the context of the REACT trial, that these don't include* re-infections, which may outnumber first infections as much as 2:1.

    BBC News - Two-thirds with Omicron say they have had Covid before
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60132096

    * Except Wales, where they are included.
    Though, if we are having ~300k positive tests a day, and more than that infected who don't know they are, then that just goes to show how good a job immunity from vaccination and prior infection is doing at keeping people out of hospital and alive.
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    "Sue Gray wrangles with Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Very unclear what is going on.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Not sure what circles you move in Mr Smithson but if Johnson can paint Starmer as a lawyer who will argue anything whether he believes it or not as most lawyers do it will be very effective indeed

    DPP is probably the single legal position in the country least vulnerable to that charge.

    That's in addition to the point already made about Boris "two columns" Johnson.
  • Options

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,232
    edited January 2022

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Absolutely. Jesus's dad was a right hard bastard, ask the Egyptians.

    There's one thing that has always interested but I am scared to google it because googling anything involving The Holocaust leads to 'interesting' sites.

    So, why did Yahweh save the Jews from the bondage of Pharaoh but didn't intervene during The Holocaust?
    Well, arguably He did. He sent the allied armies.

    I'd imagine they lost quite a few under the reign of the Pharaoh too before they escaped across the Red Sea. Being in slavery for long periods doesn't tend to do much for population levels.
    True, I mean he directly intervened with Pharoah, the plagues etc, but not directly with The Holocaust.
    He got Hitler against all reason to declare war on the USA ensuring that the game was a bogey for AH. Of course 10s of millions of people including Jews died after that but no supreme being is perfect.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412
    Uhm, what is happening in Israel?

    “New COVID cases per capita break new world record high in Israel, where over 90% of the adult population has received 2 vaccine doses, 80% have received 3 doses, and over 500,000 Israelis have received 4 doses—which the government is now pushing for all adullts”

    https://twitter.com/michaelpsenger/status/1486381150016720896?s=21

    “All-time high in hospitalizations, too. What is going on?“


    https://twitter.com/mumtomingus/status/1486390104470044673?s=21
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    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    I wonder if our Scottish contingent have seen this

    https://twitter.com/scottish_future/status/1484149341048737793?s=21

    Only about 5 million times. Mr Brown has been Interrrvening for what seems like the entire period since the Jurassic.

    It's basically Mr Brown's pet [edit] operation. And since his promises of more federalism than would fill a supertanker, it's not going to be very credible.

    But thank you anyway for drawing it to our attention.
    Brownhog day comes around earlier each year..
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2022

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings to Sky all day have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or any specific conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something quite different.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Taz said:

    I wonder if our Scottish contingent have seen this

    https://twitter.com/scottish_future/status/1484149341048737793?s=21

    Rather have my eyes poked out by a sharp stick than listen to dribbling by that pair of absolute fanny's
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    Pro_Rata said:

    Here's the thing with the too much going on to change now argument. It's rubbish.

    Even discounting Boris paralysis from this, all the big stuff being done at the moment is operational - Ukraine, treasury work on energy bills. COVID relaxation. There is no grand project stuff that will die with Boris.

    On Ukraine, if Boris stays or goes immediately and, say, Raab interims, policy approach doesn't change. On the treasury stuff, stay or go, Rishi will want to.look OK, on COVID relaxation the course seems set. (In fact, if Boris goes, it shows up his big stuff defence as disingenuous anyway).

    So, what gives? What exactly does a leadership election do to disrupt any of these things?

    Interesting to see that Johnson said that he did not approve the Treasury writing off £4.3 Billion in fraud. He really isn't someone you want beside you in a Trench.


    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1486311385336328193?t=LSU28VTXeEJ7VnFbVr7SHg&s=19
    Pretty extraordinary to see the Prime Minister distance himself from the Chancellor writing off £4.3 billion in fraud just now...

    He just replied "no, of course not" when asked whether he approved the writing off of vast sums lost to fraudsters. #PMQs
    https://t.co/i9wdeoWjei
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412
    Caveat: both of those accounts SEEM to be anti-vaxxy, so treat with caution

    Nonetheless some concerning trends form Israel, if their graphs are not faked. Is this just Omicron doing its thing?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    You mean fiddling it.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Perhaps we are all overthinking this. Gray reports, voncers vonc, Pig Dog's neck wrung like a chicken, the end.
  • Options

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings all day from Sky have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something different quite different.
    The mail says lawyers and police as per Sky

    The one thing that is absolutely true is Sky is most definitely not government friendly
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,654
    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    MrBristol said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Never even heard of Wordle until this week, is it new or just newly popular?

    Started in Autumn according to the Guardian, but it's only recently taken off once they added the "copy results in coloured squares" function.

    https://www.theguardian.com/games/2022/jan/11/wordle-creator-overwhelmed-by-global-success-of-hit-puzzle
    It's an interesting case study in how things become popular on the internet, particularly when you compare it with other similarly minimalist word games, such as Guess My Word which doesn't have a way of sharing your performance in a graphically pleasing way without spoiling the game for others. It does have a cool word cloud you can look at of other people's guesses, but that very obviously acts as a spoiler.
    Wordle is an interesting game, but more interesting is how it is a complete clone of Lingo TV show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(American_game_show)) yet this seems to go unnoticed by the media. I guess that makes it a less interesting story.

    I learned the other day that Countdown is a copy of a French show, which rocked me to my core.
    The Crystal Maze, too.
    What?!

    Gods, what has become of us as a nation? I don't know who we even our anymore.
    Well, maybe not a copy as such: they wanted to make a British version of Fort Boyard, but the fort was unavailable for filming because of refurbishment, and the replica they built at Elstree didn't work, so the creator came up with the Crystal Maze as an equivalent.

    Melinda Messenger and Leslie Grantham came later.
    Aren't these all Johny-come-latelies.

    I remember a similar thing from about 10 years earlier set on a notional distant planet and involving an alien host that turned into a growling aspidistra.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    IshmaelZ said:

    Perhaps we are all overthinking this. Gray reports, voncers vonc, Pig Dog's neck wrung like a chicken, the end.

    One can only hope porker gets it.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Here's the thing with the too much going on to change now argument. It's rubbish.

    Even discounting Boris paralysis from this, all the big stuff being done at the moment is operational - Ukraine, treasury work on energy bills. COVID relaxation. There is no grand project stuff that will die with Boris.

    On Ukraine, if Boris stays or goes immediately and, say, Raab interims, policy approach doesn't change. On the treasury stuff, stay or go, Rishi will want to.look OK, on COVID relaxation the course seems set. (In fact, if Boris goes, it shows up his big stuff defence as disingenuous anyway).

    So, what gives? What exactly does a leadership election do to disrupt any of these things?

    Interesting to see that Johnson said that he did not approve the Treasury writing off £4.3 Billion in fraud. He really isn't someone you want beside you in a Trench.


    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1486311385336328193?t=LSU28VTXeEJ7VnFbVr7SHg&s=19
    Pretty extraordinary to see the Prime Minister distance himself from the Chancellor writing off £4.3 billion in fraud just now...

    He just replied "no, of course not" when asked whether he approved the writing off of vast sums lost to fraudsters. #PMQs
    https://t.co/i9wdeoWjei
    My impression was that he wasn't really following the question - he thought he was answering "Are you happy there's so much fraud?" I doubt if he has been taking an interest in the details.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    IshmaelZ said:

    Perhaps we are all overthinking this. Gray reports, voncers vonc, Pig Dog's neck wrung like a chicken, the end.

    Are you suggesting Big Dog is a Schweinhund?
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    You mean fiddling it.
    I have little doubt the Met intervention has complicated it but it is the right thing to do
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2022

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings all day from Sky have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something different quite different.
    The mail says lawyers and police as per Sky

    The one thing that is absolutely true is Sky is most definitely not government friendly
    The Mail says Gray is in some sort of conflict with Downing Street aides' lawyers. Look at their headline. A very different emphasis from Sky.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    One thing I don't understand: If the Sue Gray report is delayed until Monday how on Earth do @10DowningStreet @BorisJohnson think they will prevent a leak? Every Civil Servant in No10 & CO has skin in the game. Every Sunday journalist will be ordered to get it

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1486391611269566468?s=20

    I expect any leaking of information that is subject to a criminal investigation could be quite serious for the leaker
    You support governments that leak to the press daily like a sieve.
    I do not support leaks to the press from any source

    To qualify

    Unless it is in the public interest
    The problem is there are lots of thing you say you are against. The government continue to do them blatantly, the latest example being leaking the police investigation to guido yesterday but not informing the cabinet. And yet you still will end up voting for them.

    What is in it for them to change?
    I am not a conservative member and would refer you to my post yesterday when I said that I would abstain or vote Lib Dem
    That is true. Epping's ConservativeFinder-General has confirmed on numerous occasions that Big_G is not a True Blue.
  • Options

    One thing I don't understand: If the Sue Gray report is delayed until Monday how on Earth do @10DowningStreet @BorisJohnson think they will prevent a leak? Every Civil Servant in No10 & CO has skin in the game. Every Sunday journalist will be ordered to get it

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1486391611269566468?s=20

    I expect any leaking of information that is subject to a criminal investigation could be quite serious for the leaker
    You support governments that leak to the press daily like a sieve.
    I do not support leaks to the press from any source

    To qualify

    Unless it is in the public interest
    The problem is there are lots of thing you say you are against. The government continue to do them blatantly, the latest example being leaking the police investigation to guido yesterday but not informing the cabinet. And yet you still will end up voting for them.

    What is in it for them to change?
    I am not a conservative member and would refer you to my post yesterday when I said that I would abstain or vote Lib Dem
    That is true. Epping's ConservativeFinder-General has confirmed on numerous occasions that Big_G is not a True Blue.
    Must be true then.
  • Options
    Pants on fire!

    "Boris Johnson accused of lying as email suggests he approved Kabul evacuation of Pen Farthing dogs"

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-26/pm-called-liar-as-email-suggests-he-did-approve-evacuation-of-pets-from-kabul
  • Options
    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,264
    edited January 2022

    KABOOM.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — AP sources: Liberal Justice Stephen Breyer will retire, giving Joe Biden the 1st Supreme Court pick of his presidency.

    Not, surely, a huge surprise?

    Unless Democrats had been very confident of advancing in the Senate in November (something I don't actually rule out as the map isn't bad for them, but which is unlikely) this was always on the cards given Breyer is 83 years old. It would have been a huge gamble to risk it and, no matter how dedicated he is, he'd surely like a bit of a retirement.

    The narrow position in the Senate shouldn't be a problem. Manchin and Sinema are awkward on substantive legislation, but it'd be very surprising if they voted against confirmation of a justice nominated by Biden unless he/she has some extremely big flaw. And Collins and Murkowski are both highly possible confirmation votes in a close one.

    Manchin in particular couldn't really veto on ideological grounds even if the choice was a bit more liberal than he'd like - his whole point with confirming Kavanaugh was that he DIDN'T agree with him on a political level (or "judicial philosophy" level if you want to put a gloss on it) but Trump had the constitutional right to nominate and the sexual assault allegations were unproven so ultimately he had no grounds not to wave it through (and he gave Gorsuch the nod on the same basis, albeit he was fundamentally a pretty uncontroversial pick - maybe the least provocative thing Trump did in his time in office). All Democrats, Manchin and Sinema included, voted against Coney Barrett as it directly contradicted the precedent set for Garland in 2016.
    Sensible stuff - The Dems got into a mess with the Supreme court because Ginsburg didn't stand down while Obama was president. It doesn't immediately help their position but stops it getting worse:

    Liberal Justices:

    Breyer - current age 83
    Sotomayor - 67
    Kagan - 61

    Conservative Justices:

    Thomas - 73
    Alito - 71
    Roberts - 66
    Kavanaugh - 56
    Gorsuch - 54
    Barrett - 49

    After this it could be a decade before another Supreme court change - Dems have to hope a future Dem president can replace one of Thomas/Alito/Roberts


    I see why you've divided the Supreme Court in that binary way but it isn't really quite like that.

    Roberts is a fair bit closer to Kagan than to Thomas on the really big calls.

    And Trump's choices got steadily more conservative but Gorsuch is a fairly moderate conservative. Kavanaugh's position is slighly clouded by the circumstances of his confirmation - the impression in the UK particularly was that he was Trumpier than Trump whereas in reality he's a fairly bog standard justice with a broadly but not inflexibly conservative outlook (he was clearly a rather unpleasant frat boy - and it's a little uncertain how unpleasant - in the 1980s but that doesn't mean he's Trumpian per se).

    It's a bit early to say on Barrett's position but the most conservative conservatives are the oldest, in reality (& one of them is fairly widely believed to have enough health issues that he's unlikely to press on much beyond 2024 if that).

    The narrative tends towards the Supreme Court conservative "majority" fundamentally screwing the Democrats for the foreseeable future. But it's more subtle than that - a thumb on the scales they'd rather wasn't there but is an annoyance more than anything.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412
    This is not ideal

    “Israel's severe COVID caseload shoots up but hospitalizations stabilize

    Although Israeli hospitals are overloaded with COVID patients, medical teams across the country claim the number of hospitalized patients is stable; Health Ministry says tally severely ill now stands at 888, an 8-fold increase within weeks”

    https://twitter.com/gadea/status/1486403215126052869?s=21
  • Options

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings all day from Sky have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something different quite different.
    The mail says lawyers and police as per Sky

    The one thing that is absolutely true is Sky is most definitely not government friendly
    The Mail says Gray is in some sort of conflict with Downing Street aides' lawyers - look at their headline. Very different emphasis from Sky.
    I have read the article not headlines
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,384
    IshmaelZ said:

    Perhaps we are all overthinking this. Gray reports, voncers vonc, Pig Dog's neck wrung like a chicken, the end.

    It really, really, really, could happen.

    I mean, there's a first time for everything, but when have we ever had a PM resign because of a report from an inquiry that they've set up? The inquiries are setup for the express purpose of them avoiding having to resign. They'd have to be a pretty incompetent PM to set up an inquiry that ended up leading to their resignation.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,272

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings all day from Sky have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something different quite different.
    The mail says lawyers and police as per Sky

    The one thing that is absolutely true is Sky is most definitely not government friendly
    Maybe Big Dog is dismissing Gray for her insolence.

    He is Prime Minister you know.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796
    This morning I watched (and partly skipped through) 'secrets of the underground' - a production by a lesser tv company. You have to wrestle through the ads, and then wrestle through the padding, but there's some interesting stuff there. (I imagine you know anyway, but the stories there of the last man to drive various trains etc echoed your denials :))
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,875
    edited January 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    I wonder if our Scottish contingent have seen this

    https://twitter.com/scottish_future/status/1484149341048737793?s=21

    Only about 5 million times. Mr Brown has been Interrrvening for what seems like the entire period since the Jurassic.

    It's basically Mr Brown's pet [edit] operation. And since his promises of more federalism than would fill a supertanker, it's not going to be very credible.

    But thank you anyway for drawing it to our attention.
    Brownhog day comes around earlier each year..
    My instant gut reaction to the name 'Our Scottish Future' was to think 'Whose - Slab's?'

    And did you see the Who We Are on the website?

    https://ourscottishfuture.org/about/

    Eddie Barnes (ex Scotsman/Scons/UKG [edit] advisor - not sure if full fat spad)
    Toni Sword ex SLAB head of digital
    Ross Newton whohe?
    Suzi Murning ex Slab organizer
    Henry Stannard strategy consultant
    plus GB

    Not exactly a cross section of Scottish voters' opinion.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412
    My God, what if the anti-vaxxers….. are…….. RIGHT?
  • Options

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings all day from Sky have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something different quite different.
    The mail says lawyers and police as per Sky

    The one thing that is absolutely true is Sky is most definitely not government friendly
    The Mail says Gray is in some sort of conflict with Downing Street aides' lawyers - look at their headline. Very different emphasis from Sky.
    I have read the article not headlines
    And it says Downing Street aides lawyers which is not the same as Boris's lawyers
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    MattW said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    MrBristol said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Never even heard of Wordle until this week, is it new or just newly popular?

    Started in Autumn according to the Guardian, but it's only recently taken off once they added the "copy results in coloured squares" function.

    https://www.theguardian.com/games/2022/jan/11/wordle-creator-overwhelmed-by-global-success-of-hit-puzzle
    It's an interesting case study in how things become popular on the internet, particularly when you compare it with other similarly minimalist word games, such as Guess My Word which doesn't have a way of sharing your performance in a graphically pleasing way without spoiling the game for others. It does have a cool word cloud you can look at of other people's guesses, but that very obviously acts as a spoiler.
    Wordle is an interesting game, but more interesting is how it is a complete clone of Lingo TV show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(American_game_show)) yet this seems to go unnoticed by the media. I guess that makes it a less interesting story.

    I learned the other day that Countdown is a copy of a French show, which rocked me to my core.
    The Crystal Maze, too.
    What?!

    Gods, what has become of us as a nation? I don't know who we even our anymore.
    Well, maybe not a copy as such: they wanted to make a British version of Fort Boyard, but the fort was unavailable for filming because of refurbishment, and the replica they built at Elstree didn't work, so the creator came up with the Crystal Maze as an equivalent.

    Melinda Messenger and Leslie Grantham came later.
    Aren't these all Johny-come-latelies.

    I remember a similar thing from about 10 years earlier set on a notional distant planet and involving an alien host that turned into a growling aspidistra.
    That sounds like an episode of Lost in Space. Was Robbie the Robot in that one?
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2022

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings all day from Sky have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something different quite different.
    The mail says lawyers and police as per Sky

    The one thing that is absolutely true is Sky is most definitely not government friendly
    The Mail says Gray is in some sort of conflict with Downing Street aides' lawyers - look at their headline. Very different emphasis from Sky.
    I have read the article not headlines
    Their headlines often are not accidental, though.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,914

    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Here's the thing with the too much going on to change now argument. It's rubbish.

    Even discounting Boris paralysis from this, all the big stuff being done at the moment is operational - Ukraine, treasury work on energy bills. COVID relaxation. There is no grand project stuff that will die with Boris.

    On Ukraine, if Boris stays or goes immediately and, say, Raab interims, policy approach doesn't change. On the treasury stuff, stay or go, Rishi will want to.look OK, on COVID relaxation the course seems set. (In fact, if Boris goes, it shows up his big stuff defence as disingenuous anyway).

    So, what gives? What exactly does a leadership election do to disrupt any of these things?

    Interesting to see that Johnson said that he did not approve the Treasury writing off £4.3 Billion in fraud. He really isn't someone you want beside you in a Trench.


    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1486311385336328193?t=LSU28VTXeEJ7VnFbVr7SHg&s=19
    Pretty extraordinary to see the Prime Minister distance himself from the Chancellor writing off £4.3 billion in fraud just now...

    He just replied "no, of course not" when asked whether he approved the writing off of vast sums lost to fraudsters. #PMQs
    https://t.co/i9wdeoWjei
    My impression was that he wasn't really following the question - he thought he was answering "Are you happy there's so much fraud?" I doubt if he has been taking an interest in the details.
    Agree, watch the clip in context.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    edited January 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Perhaps we are all overthinking this. Gray reports, voncers vonc, Pig Dog's neck wrung like a chicken, the end.

    At this stage - obviously everyone will be arguing that the bit about the shit they did should be taken out. This always happens. Being surprised it is happening is like being surprised by water being wet.

    Cummings et al will publish all the redacted bits of information anyway.

    In other news.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukrainian-mum-buys-huge-rifle-26047160

    I am now picturing the coffee mornings after school drops - "You need to go for the heavy barrel, hammer forged, with the polygonal rifling. All the mums at {next school) over are getting that option..."
  • Options
    Leon said:

    My God, what if the anti-vaxxers….. are…….. RIGHT?

    "Oh, god! Oh, god! We're all gonna die?"
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732

    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Here's the thing with the too much going on to change now argument. It's rubbish.

    Even discounting Boris paralysis from this, all the big stuff being done at the moment is operational - Ukraine, treasury work on energy bills. COVID relaxation. There is no grand project stuff that will die with Boris.

    On Ukraine, if Boris stays or goes immediately and, say, Raab interims, policy approach doesn't change. On the treasury stuff, stay or go, Rishi will want to.look OK, on COVID relaxation the course seems set. (In fact, if Boris goes, it shows up his big stuff defence as disingenuous anyway).

    So, what gives? What exactly does a leadership election do to disrupt any of these things?

    Interesting to see that Johnson said that he did not approve the Treasury writing off £4.3 Billion in fraud. He really isn't someone you want beside you in a Trench.


    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1486311385336328193?t=LSU28VTXeEJ7VnFbVr7SHg&s=19
    Pretty extraordinary to see the Prime Minister distance himself from the Chancellor writing off £4.3 billion in fraud just now...

    He just replied "no, of course not" when asked whether he approved the writing off of vast sums lost to fraudsters. #PMQs
    https://t.co/i9wdeoWjei
    My impression was that he wasn't really following the question - he thought he was answering "Are you happy there's so much fraud?" I doubt if he has been taking an interest in the details.
    I am sure you are right. He has no attention for detail, and rarely keeps his eye on the ball. Sunaks face was a picture though.

    I think a better approach for Starmer would be to question over these issues, getting in a dig about Johnson being more interested in partying than the issues of the country.
  • Options

    One thing I don't understand: If the Sue Gray report is delayed until Monday how on Earth do @10DowningStreet @BorisJohnson think they will prevent a leak? Every Civil Servant in No10 & CO has skin in the game. Every Sunday journalist will be ordered to get it

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1486391611269566468?s=20

    I expect any leaking of information that is subject to a criminal investigation could be quite serious for the leaker
    You support governments that leak to the press daily like a sieve.
    I do not support leaks to the press from any source

    To qualify

    Unless it is in the public interest
    The problem is there are lots of thing you say you are against. The government continue to do them blatantly, the latest example being leaking the police investigation to guido yesterday but not informing the cabinet. And yet you still will end up voting for them.

    What is in it for them to change?
    I am not a conservative member and would refer you to my post yesterday when I said that I would abstain or vote Lib Dem
    That is true. Epping's ConservativeFinder-General has confirmed on numerous occasions that Big_G is not a True Blue.
    And he voted for Plaid let's not forget
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,654
    MattW said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    MrBristol said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Never even heard of Wordle until this week, is it new or just newly popular?

    Started in Autumn according to the Guardian, but it's only recently taken off once they added the "copy results in coloured squares" function.

    https://www.theguardian.com/games/2022/jan/11/wordle-creator-overwhelmed-by-global-success-of-hit-puzzle
    It's an interesting case study in how things become popular on the internet, particularly when you compare it with other similarly minimalist word games, such as Guess My Word which doesn't have a way of sharing your performance in a graphically pleasing way without spoiling the game for others. It does have a cool word cloud you can look at of other people's guesses, but that very obviously acts as a spoiler.
    Wordle is an interesting game, but more interesting is how it is a complete clone of Lingo TV show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(American_game_show)) yet this seems to go unnoticed by the media. I guess that makes it a less interesting story.

    I learned the other day that Countdown is a copy of a French show, which rocked me to my core.
    The Crystal Maze, too.
    What?!

    Gods, what has become of us as a nation? I don't know who we even our anymore.
    Well, maybe not a copy as such: they wanted to make a British version of Fort Boyard, but the fort was unavailable for filming because of refurbishment, and the replica they built at Elstree didn't work, so the creator came up with the Crystal Maze as an equivalent.

    Melinda Messenger and Leslie Grantham came later.
    Aren't these all Johny-come-latelies.

    I remember a similar thing from about 10 years earlier set on a notional distant planet and involving an alien host that turned into a growling aspidistra.
    (Update: Gotcha. The Adventure Game, 1980.

    French mimicking (ish) a UK format 10 years later :smile:

    Episode on Youtube, with a distinct Great Egg Race feel to it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3K53Tm2HhA
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    Scott_xP said:

    Laura Pidcock resigns from the NEC after a motion to restore the Labour whip for Jeremy Corbyn was defeated at a meeting yesterday https://twitter.com/LauraPidcock/status/1486390792692408321

    It's unfortunate but necessary. It's like keeping Pol Pot on to help with rebuilding of Cambodia. Erstwhile Labour voters saw this experiment fail spectacularly. The best bet now is to show that they are nowhere near the centre of the new Labour Party. If they want to do Starmer and co a bigger favour they'll start a new party and then the public will believe they've gone for good
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,914
    Leon said:

    My God, what if the anti-vaxxers….. are…….. RIGHT?

    Remind us of the time difference?

    ...... Ah.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2022

    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings all day from Sky have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something different quite different.
    The mail says lawyers and police as per Sky

    The one thing that is absolutely true is Sky is most definitely not government friendly
    The Mail says Gray is in some sort of conflict with Downing Street aides' lawyers - look at their headline. Very different emphasis from Sky.
    I have read the article not headlines
    And it says Downing Street aides lawyers which is not the same as Boris's lawyers
    Well yes, there'll be many other people worried. It looks very much as if we're not looking at the neutral procedural delays and formalities of clearance Sky was reporting on earlier, to me.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515

    Leon said:

    My God, what if the anti-vaxxers….. are…….. RIGHT?

    "Oh, god! Oh, god! We're all gonna die?"
    "Maybe we can build a fire, sing a couple of songs, huh? Why don't we try that?"
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,069
    I keep saying it, Suse Grey / Grey Suits should leak the report to the Guardian, literally this minute. There is no point prolonging this purgatory, this banal tedium.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    WTF....just f##king say sorry you got it wrong.

    The BBC should have updated an article about an alleged anti-Semitic incident in London in November, its complaints unit has ruled. The BBC should have recognised there was "genuine doubt" about its report an anti-Muslim slur was heard, it said.

    However, the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit (ECU) did not agree that the article amounted to victim-blaming....apologised "for not doing more to highlight that these details were contested".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60083325
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    I wonder if our Scottish contingent have seen this

    https://twitter.com/scottish_future/status/1484149341048737793?s=21

    Only about 5 million times. Mr Brown has been Interrrvening for what seems like the entire period since the Jurassic.

    It's basically Mr Brown's pet [edit] operation. And since his promises of more federalism than would fill a supertanker, it's not going to be very credible.

    But thank you anyway for drawing it to our attention.
    Brownhog day comes around earlier each year..
    My instant gut reaction to the name 'Our Scottish Future' was to think 'Whose - Slab's?'

    And did you see the Who We Are on the website?

    https://ourscottishfuture.org/about/

    Eddie Barnes (ex Scotsman/Scons/UKG spad)
    Toni Sword ex SLAB head of digital
    Ross Newton whohe?
    Suzi Murning ex Slab organizer
    Henry Stannard strategy consultant
    plus GB

    Not exactly a cross section of Scottish voters' opinion.
    More than a whiff of Our Scottish Past.

    This is Ross I think.

    https://rossnewton.home.blog/

    A lolz sample:

    'Labour’s Opportunity

    This provides a big opportunity for Scottish Labour. Finally, there will be a tasty slice of political real estate available in the centre of Scottish politics. Long out in the cold, this is a key moment for Labour. To paraphrase Eminem; will we capture it, or just let it slip? If you’re a betting man then you opt for the latter. However, with Anas Sarwar in charge, there is hope that he has the political brain and personal charisma to realise this. Needless to say, I have some completely unsolicited advice…'
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    I keep saying it, Suse Grey / Grey Suits should leak the report to the Guardian, literally this minute. There is no point prolonging this purgatory, this banal tedium.

    Even Sue Gray
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515

    The BBC should have updated an article about an alleged anti-Semitic incident in London in November, its complaints unit has ruled.

    The BBC should have recognised there was "genuine doubt" about its report an anti-Muslim slur was heard, it said.

    However, the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit (ECU) did not agree that the article amounted to victim-blaming....apologised "for not doing more to highlight that these details were contested".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60083325

    WTF....just f##king say sorry you got it wrong.

    The problem with nailing your trousers to the masthead is that it makes climbing down quite difficult and potentially, really, really embarrassing.

    I think, in this case they found a big problem... which they are trying to wish away.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022

    The BBC should have updated an article about an alleged anti-Semitic incident in London in November, its complaints unit has ruled.

    The BBC should have recognised there was "genuine doubt" about its report an anti-Muslim slur was heard, it said.

    However, the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit (ECU) did not agree that the article amounted to victim-blaming....apologised "for not doing more to highlight that these details were contested".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60083325

    WTF....just f##king say sorry you got it wrong.

    The problem with nailing your trousers to the masthead is that it makes climbing down quite difficult and potentially, really, really embarrassing.

    I think, in this case they found a big problem... which they are trying to wish away.
    They are just making it worse by equivocating. Trying to argue two sides to the story, you know its "contested"...I mean I know there is a full length video of the whole situation, where the bit you claimed was anti-Muslim slurs was basically Yiddish for "help, we are under attack", but you know it could have still been a slur.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,654
    edited January 2022
    I do admire Emily Thornberry's optimism in proposing Lenin, Castro and Thatcher as Leaders who were lawyers, in support of Sir Kier.

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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    My God, what if the anti-vaxxers….. are…….. RIGHT?

    Remind us of the time difference?

    ...... Ah.
    It’s past midnight. Yet by my standards I am pretty sober

    And look at the ICU data for Israel

    https://twitter.com/gab_h_r/status/1486078984278392834?s=21
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,069

    I keep saying it, Suse Grey / Grey Suits should leak the report to the Guardian, literally this minute. There is no point prolonging this purgatory, this banal tedium.

    Even Sue Gray
    Play on words…
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    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings all day from Sky have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something different quite different.
    The mail says lawyers and police as per Sky

    The one thing that is absolutely true is Sky is most definitely not government friendly
    The Mail says Gray is in some sort of conflict with Downing Street aides' lawyers. Look at their headline. A very different emphasis from Sky.
    This could all be theatre to make us think this way, but if No10 are procrastinating it would appear that there must be something to procrastinate about
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    "Sue Gray battles Downing Street aides' lawyers and HR", reports the Mail, which is very different from the Sky report.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10442835/Boris-braces-damning-Partygate-report-published-TODAY.html

    Not different from Sky

    The Cabinet Office redrafting, squaring issues with lawyers and police, and HR red tape are among the things being blamed

    They are still going through the process of finalising one source told Mail on line , there are lots of things that need to be checked and re- checked
    The government-friendly briefings all day from Sky have implied that the hold-ups aren't do with objections from Downing Street itself, or conflicts between Sue Gray and anyone in Downing Street, but are all procedural and neutral. The Mail is reporting something different quite different.
    The mail says lawyers and police as per Sky

    The one thing that is absolutely true is Sky is most definitely not government friendly
    The Mail says Gray is in some sort of conflict with Downing Street aides' lawyers - look at their headline. Very different emphasis from Sky.
    I have read the article not headlines
    And it says Downing Street aides lawyers which is not the same as Boris's lawyers
    Well yes, there'll be many other people worried. It looks very much as if we're not looking at the neutral procedural delays and clearance formalities Sky was reporting earlier, to me.
    If I were acting for one of those being lined up for an early bath as part of "Save Big Dog" then I'd be behaving in a pretty damned awkward way just now. I'd very aggressively push back on any personal criticism of the client and clearly reserve position on all difficult matters. Aim being to improve terms of departure (as delay is inconvenient for Number 10) and limit damage to the client's future career.
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    One thing I don't understand: If the Sue Gray report is delayed until Monday how on Earth do @10DowningStreet @BorisJohnson think they will prevent a leak? Every Civil Servant in No10 & CO has skin in the game. Every Sunday journalist will be ordered to get it

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1486391611269566468?s=20

    I expect any leaking of information that is subject to a criminal investigation could be quite serious for the leaker
    You support governments that leak to the press daily like a sieve.
    I do not support leaks to the press from any source

    To qualify

    Unless it is in the public interest
    The problem is there are lots of thing you say you are against. The government continue to do them blatantly, the latest example being leaking the police investigation to guido yesterday but not informing the cabinet. And yet you still will end up voting for them.

    What is in it for them to change?
    I am not a conservative member and would refer you to my post yesterday when I said that I would abstain or vote Lib Dem
    That is true. Epping's ConservativeFinder-General has confirmed on numerous occasions that Big_G is not a True Blue.
    And he voted for Plaid let's not forget
    When did that happen? Was he dazed? Had someone slipped a hallucinogenic substance into his ovaltine?

    Plaid! :open_mouth:
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    MattW said:

    I do admire Emily Thornberry's optimism in proposing Lenin, Castro and Thatcher as Leaders who were lawyers, in support of Sir Kier.

    Oh dear. You would have thought Mandela might have been a little more appropriate
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Leon said:

    My God, what if the anti-vaxxers….. are…….. RIGHT?

    And the Earth really is flat? :open_mouth:
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796

    WTF....just f##king say sorry you got it wrong.

    The BBC should have updated an article about an alleged anti-Semitic incident in London in November, its complaints unit has ruled. The BBC should have recognised there was "genuine doubt" about its report an anti-Muslim slur was heard, it said.

    However, the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit (ECU) did not agree that the article amounted to victim-blaming....apologised "for not doing more to highlight that these details were contested".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60083325

    The BBC simply because of its size and influence is a propoganda machine. They should try not to be rather than denying it.
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    One thing I don't understand: If the Sue Gray report is delayed until Monday how on Earth do @10DowningStreet @BorisJohnson think they will prevent a leak? Every Civil Servant in No10 & CO has skin in the game. Every Sunday journalist will be ordered to get it

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1486391611269566468?s=20

    I expect any leaking of information that is subject to a criminal investigation could be quite serious for the leaker
    You support governments that leak to the press daily like a sieve.
    I do not support leaks to the press from any source

    To qualify

    Unless it is in the public interest
    The problem is there are lots of thing you say you are against. The government continue to do them blatantly, the latest example being leaking the police investigation to guido yesterday but not informing the cabinet. And yet you still will end up voting for them.

    What is in it for them to change?
    I am not a conservative member and would refer you to my post yesterday when I said that I would abstain or vote Lib Dem
    That is true. Epping's ConservativeFinder-General has confirmed on numerous occasions that Big_G is not a True Blue.
    And he voted for Plaid let's not forget
    When did that happen? Was he dazed? Had someone slipped a hallucinogenic substance into his ovaltine?

    Plaid! :open_mouth:
    Admitted on here
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    BBC position on the Jewish kids case is akin to Boris claiming well its contested if there was a party or not.....
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    Leon said:

    My God, what if the anti-vaxxers….. are…….. RIGHT?

    Well, they are pushing up the daisies in Trumpenstan.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/human-sacrifice-ritual-mass-vaccination/621355/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
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    WTF....just f##king say sorry you got it wrong.

    The BBC should have updated an article about an alleged anti-Semitic incident in London in November, its complaints unit has ruled. The BBC should have recognised there was "genuine doubt" about its report an anti-Muslim slur was heard, it said.

    However, the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit (ECU) did not agree that the article amounted to victim-blaming....apologised "for not doing more to highlight that these details were contested".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60083325

    Perhaps they have been taking advice from Johnson on how to issue a non-apologising apology
  • Options

    I keep saying it, Suse Grey / Grey Suits should leak the report to the Guardian, literally this minute. There is no point prolonging this purgatory, this banal tedium.

    Even Sue Gray
    At night all Sues are Gray.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    My God, what if the anti-vaxxers….. are…….. RIGHT?

    And the Earth really is flat? :open_mouth:
    Perhaps the moon landings are fake?
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,134
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    MrBristol said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Never even heard of Wordle until this week, is it new or just newly popular?

    Started in Autumn according to the Guardian, but it's only recently taken off once they added the "copy results in coloured squares" function.

    https://www.theguardian.com/games/2022/jan/11/wordle-creator-overwhelmed-by-global-success-of-hit-puzzle
    It's an interesting case study in how things become popular on the internet, particularly when you compare it with other similarly minimalist word games, such as Guess My Word which doesn't have a way of sharing your performance in a graphically pleasing way without spoiling the game for others. It does have a cool word cloud you can look at of other people's guesses, but that very obviously acts as a spoiler.
    Wordle is an interesting game, but more interesting is how it is a complete clone of Lingo TV show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(American_game_show)) yet this seems to go unnoticed by the media. I guess that makes it a less interesting story.

    I learned the other day that Countdown is a copy of a French show, which rocked me to my core.
    The Crystal Maze, too.
    What?!

    Gods, what has become of us as a nation? I don't know who we even our anymore.
    Well, maybe not a copy as such: they wanted to make a British version of Fort Boyard, but the fort was unavailable for filming because of refurbishment, and the replica they built at Elstree didn't work, so the creator came up with the Crystal Maze as an equivalent.

    Melinda Messenger and Leslie Grantham came later.
    Aren't these all Johny-come-latelies.

    I remember a similar thing from about 10 years earlier set on a notional distant planet and involving an alien host that turned into a growling aspidistra.
    (Update: Gotcha. The Adventure Game, 1980.

    French mimicking (ish) a UK format 10 years later :smile:

    Episode on Youtube, with a distinct Great Egg Race feel to it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3K53Tm2HhA
    I remember the Adventure Game, it was great. Didn't they use to travel back to earth on a tube train or am I dreaming that?
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,134

    I keep saying it, Suse Grey / Grey Suits should leak the report to the Guardian, literally this minute. There is no point prolonging this purgatory, this banal tedium.

    Even Sue Gray
    At night all Sues are Gray.
    All 50 Sues of Gray?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898

    One thing I don't understand: If the Sue Gray report is delayed until Monday how on Earth do @10DowningStreet @BorisJohnson think they will prevent a leak? Every Civil Servant in No10 & CO has skin in the game. Every Sunday journalist will be ordered to get it

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1486391611269566468?s=20

    I expect any leaking of information that is subject to a criminal investigation could be quite serious for the leaker
    You support governments that leak to the press daily like a sieve.
    I do not support leaks to the press from any source

    To qualify

    Unless it is in the public interest
    The problem is there are lots of thing you say you are against. The government continue to do them blatantly, the latest example being leaking the police investigation to guido yesterday but not informing the cabinet. And yet you still will end up voting for them.

    What is in it for them to change?
    I am not a conservative member and would refer you to my post yesterday when I said that I would abstain or vote Lib Dem
    That is true. Epping's ConservativeFinder-General has confirmed on numerous occasions that Big_G is not a True Blue.
    And he voted for Plaid let's not forget
    When did that happen? Was he dazed? Had someone slipped a hallucinogenic substance into his ovaltine?

    Plaid! :open_mouth:
    Multi seat election, not enough Tories but feels all votes should be used.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,654
    edited January 2022

    MattW said:

    I do admire Emily Thornberry's optimism in proposing Lenin, Castro and Thatcher as Leaders who were lawyers, in support of Sir Kier.

    Oh dear. You would have thought Mandela might have been a little more appropriate
    Mandela was there as well.

    On Lawyers and Leaders #PMQs:- I think it's pretty cool to be in the company of the lawyers Obama, Mandela, Blair, Ghandi, Clinton, Roosevelt, Lenin and Lincoln.
    And better that than to be remembered as the leader who needed a lawyer! #PartyGate

    OK Hive Mind- and Attlee, Lloyd George, Castro and if you insist Thatcher.

    https://twitter.com/EmilyThornberry/status/1486344079755653127
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,323

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    Absolutely. Jesus's dad was a right hard bastard, ask the Egyptians.

    There's one thing that has always interested but I am scared to google it because googling anything involving The Holocaust leads to 'interesting' sites.

    So, why did Yahweh save the Jews from the bondage of Pharaoh but didn't intervene during The Holocaust?
    Well, arguably He did. He sent the allied armies.

    I'd imagine they lost quite a few under the reign of the Pharaoh too before they escaped across the Red Sea. Being in slavery for long periods doesn't tend to do much for population levels.
    True, I mean he directly intervened with Pharoah, the plagues etc, but not directly with The Holocaust.
    He got Hitler against all reason to declare war on the USA ensuring that the game was a bogey for AH. Of course 10s of millions of people including Jews died after that but no supreme being is perfect.
    Not when s/he’d already make Shakespeare a better writer than s/he was
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,134

    BBC position on the Jewish kids case is akin to Boris claiming well its contested if there was a party or not.....

    You mean it's totally fine and they'll get away with it?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412

    Leon said:

    My God, what if the anti-vaxxers….. are…….. RIGHT?

    And the Earth really is flat? :open_mouth:
    I’m kinda joking. I think

    But there is a credible theory that mass vaccination simply pushes the virus into evolutionary corners where it has to evade immunity. Hmm

    Anyone who is not at least mildly concerned by the data coming out of first, Denmark, and now Israel, is simply not paying attention
This discussion has been closed.