Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
@RochdalePioneers and I certainly don't share the same politics but I do find him to be one of the most honest and open on here about his what he thinks, even it might be deemed unacceptable to many.
He is a secular left liberal and does not pretend otherwise I agree
On the Rees-Mogg "we have a presidential style system now" comment, its genuinely a mark of how low the man has fallen. On the back benches he was always happy to invoke Bagehot and make some wonderfully precise and obscure observation about the mechanics of parliament.
Then into cabinet and he lies to the Queen, sprawls out on the Treasury Bench and now says Boris is President. Clearly he enjoys being in Cabinet and knows his time there is solely predicated on Boris being PM.
Its like the Jezbollah foamers on Twitter upset that the NEC refused to use their non-powers to direct the PLP to reinstate the Jeremy. Apparently the people of Islington North elected a Labour MP. When you point out that our electoral system doesn't work that way they get all upset. Do people generally just say what they want to be true rather than what is true despite all the evidence of their senses? I don't get it.
Sounds like you get it exactly!
No I get that they do it. I don't get *why* they do it. Its probably my spectrum brain but I get bemused and befuddled when people paint themselves into a corner by making things up. things generally are or are not. You can't change that by chanting "i do believe in fairies", even if you persuade some people to believe in fairies.
To be fair my blindness on this front has helped me in business. Whilst I can see that some managers like to be told what they want to be told, reality alwys catches up and overrides the fantasy. In the commercial world the number is the number - you might not like it, it may be politically untenable but it doesn't change what it is. Better to accept it and build the narrative around reality than just bullshit through it - the web of lies always unravels.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
@RochdalePioneers and I certainly don't share the same politics but I do find him to be one of the most honest and open on here about his what he thinks, even it might be deemed unacceptable to many.
He is a secular left liberal and does not pretend otherwise I agree
And JRM's battle cry that removing him means a General Election is the most pathetic piece of dissembling ever to pass his lips.
Of course it means no such thing. The tories have a whopping majority and will govern until May 2024. There is no moral, ethical or political reason why they shouldn't even if they remove Johnson.
He needs a remedial politics lesson (but JRM is right that most of the general population require one as well).
In reality our political system is very simple - we elect an MP to be our representative for 3-5 years and they decide what needs to be done.
That includes changing party allegiance and selecting a party leader who depending on the number of supporting MPs may also be Prime Minister and in charge of the country.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
I know he won in 2019 but ffs tories: wake up! He won against an unelectable anti-semitic Marxist. He is NOT going to win in 2024. Instead, if your party doesn't have the courage to remove him, you will be taken to the cleaners.
You have one chance to staunch the wound and mitigate against losses and it's almost certainly now.
p.s. I write this as a leftie who love to see the tories trounced but I am also, genuinely, concerned about the welfare of this country if you leave Johnson in office for another two years.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
@RochdalePioneers and I certainly don't share the same politics but I do find him to be one of the most honest and open on here about his what he thinks, even it might be deemed unacceptable to many.
He is a secular left liberal and does not pretend otherwise I agree
Oh, he’s a left liberal. I don’t know about his religious beliefs but, quite frankly, I think what he says about the plank in the eye stuff is far more applicable to many on his side politically.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
@RochdalePioneers and I certainly don't share the same politics but I do find him to be one of the most honest and open on here about his what he thinks, even it might be deemed unacceptable to many.
He is a secular left liberal and does not pretend otherwise I agree
Why are you so obsessed with identity politics?
Surely the better question is "why are you such a massive hypocrite". "I use the Bible as my guide for life" immediately followed by "so no worries you are gone [from the church]" is one of the funniest things I have read in ages.
I know he won in 2019 but ffs tories: wake up! He won against an unelectable anti-semitic Marxist. He is NOT going to win in 2024. Instead, if your party doesn't have the courage to remove him, you will be taken to the cleaners.
You have one chance to staunch the wound and mitigate against losses and it's almost certainly now.
p.s. I write this as a leftie who love to see the tories trounced but I am also, genuinely, concerned about the welfare of this country if you leave Johnson in office for another two years.
Latest polls give Labour about a 7% lead.
That is hung parliament territory not 1997 Labour landslide territory, especially after the boundary changes. Not one poll suggests any alternative Tory leader to Boris would win another Tory majority or even Tories most seats, even if Sunak might do fractionionally better.
The push for change is mainly from Labour, LD and SNP voters who still would not vote Tory even if Sunak was PM. If Labour was over 10% ahead in every poll ie pre 1997 territory, you might have a point, it is not
Good morning Comical Ali ! You see everything through the simplistic prism of polls. What about what is right and proper? The Conservative Party used to, at least from my perspective, have a reputation of integrity. It will never regain that with this dishonest incompetent in charge.
I sense that for all the flack you get from others, you are actually a person of moral principles. Please stop defending the indefensible.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
@RochdalePioneers and I certainly don't share the same politics but I do find him to be one of the most honest and open on here about his what he thinks, even it might be deemed unacceptable to many.
He is a secular left liberal and does not pretend otherwise I agree
Oh, he’s a left liberal. I don’t know about his religious beliefs but, quite frankly, I think what he says about the plank in the eye stuff is far more applicable to many on his side politically.
I'm a lapsed Anglican. And you're absolutely right - the hypocrisy of so many people across politics is funny. Its not exclusive to left or right.
On the betting, I think the value is at each end. If the report is devastating, the VONC will follow and a new PM will arrive by March. If it's not, he'll tough it out and the will to replace him among Tory backbenchers will diminish - they won't have an appetite for a state of permanent leadership crisis (though I suspect one or two defections may then follow). I don't think the May elections will change that - MPs tend not to care that much about councillors, sadly, and they'll say "mid-term results, meh".
Very good profile of Wes Streeting by @PronouncedAlva. I think the bit about the influence of his working class Tory grandad is important. Labour tend to do best when their leader doesn't associate Tory voting with morally bad. (Blair's Dad was Tory)…..
Corbyn obviously associated Tory with morally bad but Brown had it too. And Starmer talks about Labour in a oddly religious way sometimes too.
Just very hard to win the votes of people you do not understand and cannot bring yourself to think of as morally acceptable.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
@RochdalePioneers and I certainly don't share the same politics but I do find him to be one of the most honest and open on here about his what he thinks, even it might be deemed unacceptable to many.
I like HYUFD's clarity of purpose. I've got more time for him than the other pb.com tories who pretend to give a fuck about the lives of people in the North East who have cobwebs tattooed on their elbows and spend 25% of their disposable income on scratch cards.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
What do you think Jesus would have to say about Boris Johnson? I suspect he might turf him out of the temple. Offer him forgiveness and the potential of redemption, of course, but chastise him and tell him to go and sin no more, which we all know is unlikely. I am not sure he would recommend him as a leader of virtue.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
Erm, I'm lapsed so I am making no claims about rigidly following His teachings. You on the other hand are making such claims and yet openly do the opposite.
Compare and contrast Luke 15:3 with "so no worries you are gone". Or don't. Honestly don't care either way. Its just really making me laugh so thanks for that.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
So IOW, you take a quite relaxed view of your own behaviour, and seek to impose a rather more prescriptive one on everyone else ?
On the betting, I think the value is at each end. If the report is devastating, the VONC will follow and a new PM will arrive by March. If it's not, he'll tough it out and the will to replace him among Tory backbenchers will diminish - they won't have an appetite for a state of permanent leadership crisis (though I suspect one or two defections may then follow). I don't think the May elections will change that - MPs tend not to care that much about councillors, sadly, and they'll say "mid-term results, meh".
If Johnson survives (and I think he will), then Douglas Ross is toast. Defection to the SLDs?
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
Sorry but that is entirely contrary to the teachings of Christianity. The whole point of the parable of the Good Samaritan is to say that it's the actions of the individual that matters most not their religion. Jesus condemns the uncaring people who happen to share his own religion and chooses to associate with those who are completely outside of it.
I am SHOCKED by this, utterly shocked to my core that this has happened, did anyone predict this?
One of sport’s biggest cryptocurrency-based fan platforms has gone into liquidation, leaving thousands of supporters with tokens that are now virtually worthless.
IQONIQ, which had deals with La Liga in Spain, the McLaren Formula One team and several leading European football clubs, has collapsed in Monaco. It was in effect a social media engagement platform for fans of the sports it sponsored and it sold its own cryptocurrency tokens.
The liquidation of the platform leaves clubs, sports organisations and fans potentially out of pocket. Its chief executive said that “millions” of IQONIQ tokens or coins had been bought and admitted that they were now worth almost nothing. However, he insisted that the value could bounce back. The Spanish club Real Sociedad have said that they are owed €820,000 (about £685,000) by IQONIQ. Crystal Palace have begun legal action over missed payments.
On the betting, I think the value is at each end. If the report is devastating, the VONC will follow and a new PM will arrive by March. If it's not, he'll tough it out and the will to replace him among Tory backbenchers will diminish - they won't have an appetite for a state of permanent leadership crisis (though I suspect one or two defections may then follow). I don't think the May elections will change that - MPs tend not to care that much about councillors, sadly, and they'll say "mid-term results, meh".
If Johnson survives (and I think he will), then Douglas Ross is toast. Defection to the SLDs?
Yeah we'll have him, and the NE Tory voters. Rather than being repulsed by defectors like the Momentum loons I think it could be quite fun sticking DRoss in a room with local fishermen so that they can school him on how the Brexit settlement he advocated has broken the industry.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
So IOW, you take a quite relaxed view of your own behaviour, and seek to impose a rather more prescriptive one on everyone else ?
Standard operating procedure for organised religion since forever.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
On the betting, I think the value is at each end. If the report is devastating, the VONC will follow and a new PM will arrive by March. If it's not, he'll tough it out and the will to replace him among Tory backbenchers will diminish - they won't have an appetite for a state of permanent leadership crisis (though I suspect one or two defections may then follow). I don't think the May elections will change that - MPs tend not to care that much about councillors, sadly, and they'll say "mid-term results, meh".
If Johnson survives (and I think he will), then Douglas Ross is toast. Defection to the SLDs?
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
@RochdalePioneers and I certainly don't share the same politics but I do find him to be one of the most honest and open on here about his what he thinks, even it might be deemed unacceptable to many.
I like HYUFD's clarity of purpose. I've got more time for him than the other pb.com tories who pretend to give a fuck about the lives of people in the North East who have cobwebs tattooed on their elbows and spend 25% of their disposable income on scratch cards.
Hey I live in the north and don't give a fuck about those who want everything handed on a plate to them.
However, I also know that given decent infrastructure we could do a lot more and could easily become way more productive and with that generate way more tax.
Being blunt the issue isn't with any Government it's with the Treasury who can see the price of everything and the value of absolutely nothing when it comes to big cost projects.
Prime examples:-=
BBC - should sat with Netflix as a world leader in quality TV BT - we should have had fibre to the house everywhere back in the early 2000s HS2 - fast passenger trains open capacity to move freight on to rail and provide regular local services.
And that's off the top of my head based on recent topics.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
@RochdalePioneers and I certainly don't share the same politics but I do find him to be one of the most honest and open on here about his what he thinks, even it might be deemed unacceptable to many.
He is a secular left liberal and does not pretend otherwise I agree
Very good profile of Wes Streeting by @PronouncedAlva. I think the bit about the influence of his working class Tory grandad is important. Labour tend to do best when their leader doesn't associate Tory voting with morally bad. (Blair's Dad was Tory)…..
Corbyn obviously associated Tory with morally bad but Brown had it too. And Starmer talks about Labour in a oddly religious way sometimes too.
Just very hard to win the votes of people you do not understand and cannot bring yourself to think of as morally acceptable.
Wes was also interviewed by Nick Robinson for his Political Thinking podcast. Very interesting. The same references to his working class Tory grandad...
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
Other than Christianity as understood in the creeds (Bible conspicuously absent, following teachings conspicuously absent, belief front and central), or the dominant Protestant view of justification by faith alone, or the typical Anglican understanding of Christianity as belief and trust in response to the revelation of God through Jesus...
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Barring people is also not in the culture of the Church of England. Unfortunately many parishioners hold views that make those who they dislike very unwelcome.
For the past 100 years it wasn't a problem because it resulted in people just going to a different CofE church but that's getting harder as the money runs out and parishes are forced to merge.
On the betting, I think the value is at each end. If the report is devastating, the VONC will follow and a new PM will arrive by March. If it's not, he'll tough it out and the will to replace him among Tory backbenchers will diminish - they won't have an appetite for a state of permanent leadership crisis (though I suspect one or two defections may then follow). I don't think the May elections will change that - MPs tend not to care that much about councillors, sadly, and they'll say "mid-term results, meh".
If Johnson survives (and I think he will), then Douglas Ross is toast. Defection to the SLDs?
Or the Scottish Unionist party seceding…
Maybe, but two whopping great questions:
A. Which legal entity inherits the property? B. Which legal entity inherits the bank accounts?
If the answer is the English Conservative Party then Ross et al better find some extremely generous donors pronto.
Very good profile of Wes Streeting by @PronouncedAlva. I think the bit about the influence of his working class Tory grandad is important. Labour tend to do best when their leader doesn't associate Tory voting with morally bad. (Blair's Dad was Tory)…..
Corbyn obviously associated Tory with morally bad but Brown had it too. And Starmer talks about Labour in a oddly religious way sometimes too.
Just very hard to win the votes of people you do not understand and cannot bring yourself to think of as morally acceptable.
Wes was also interviewed by Nick Robinson for his Political Thinking podcast. Very interesting. The same references to his working class Tory grandad...
I’m wondering if Owen Paterson hadn’t been a dumbo entirely lacking in self awareness and had just quietly taken his punishment on the chin, where would the BJ party be now? Obviously there was a whole pulsating abscess waiting to be drained but could they have continued to keep it hidden under a dressing? Was Dom going to strike now anyway or did he sense their weakness and go for the kill?
Anyway, thank God for Paterson I say, not words often heard I imagine.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
What do you think Jesus would have to say about Boris Johnson? I suspect he might turf him out of the temple. Offer him forgiveness and the potential of redemption, of course, but chastise him and tell him to go and sin no more, which we all know is unlikely. I am not sure he would recommend him as a leader of virtue.
Virtues can be overrated.
And Jesus chose to surround himself with sinners like Mary Magdalene instead of "the virtuous".
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
Other than Christianity as understood in the creeds (Bible conspicuously absent, following teachings conspicuously absent, belief front and central), or the dominant Protestant view of justification by faith alone, or the typical Anglican understanding of Christianity as belief and trust in response to the revelation of God through Jesus...
So, for the hard of thinking, basically every form of Christianity except HYUFD's personal one.
I’m wondering if Owen Paterson hadn’t been a dumbo entirely lacking in self awareness and had just quietly taken his punishment on the chin, where would the BJ party be now? Obviously there was a whole pulsating abscess waiting to be drained but could they have continued to keep it hidden under a dressing? Was Dom going to strike now anyway or did he sense their weakness and go for the kill?
Anyway, thank God for Paterson I say, not words often heard I imagine.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
@RochdalePioneers and I certainly don't share the same politics but I do find him to be one of the most honest and open on here about his what he thinks, even it might be deemed unacceptable to many.
He is a secular left liberal and does not pretend otherwise I agree
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
What do you think Jesus would have to say about Boris Johnson? I suspect he might turf him out of the temple. Offer him forgiveness and the potential of redemption, of course, but chastise him and tell him to go and sin no more, which we all know is unlikely. I am not sure he would recommend him as a leader of virtue.
Virtues can be overrated.
And Jesus chose to surround himself with sinners like Mary Magdalene instead of "the virtuous".
Never forget that Christ himself was ambushed by perfume.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
I'm an atheist, but I was brought up in an Anglican school where we had to go to Chapel a few times a week and study Anglican Christianity.
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
The squirming at the moment, plus the frankly sinister interventions by Rees Mogg and some others, make me worry that Johnson is on a journey here. A journey towards Trump. He is going to discover that brazening it out and daring others to launch a putsch works better than trying to be contrite and ask forgiveness, and he's going to double down. That increasingly feels like where we are headed.
Very good profile of Wes Streeting by @PronouncedAlva. I think the bit about the influence of his working class Tory grandad is important. Labour tend to do best when their leader doesn't associate Tory voting with morally bad. (Blair's Dad was Tory)…..
Corbyn obviously associated Tory with morally bad but Brown had it too. And Starmer talks about Labour in a oddly religious way sometimes too.
Just very hard to win the votes of people you do not understand and cannot bring yourself to think of as morally acceptable.
This is crucial. Who you vote for shouldn't be the same as supporting a football team. If you need to attract voters you need to appeal to them and not categorize them as 'scum'.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
But you said the opposite. You said that these churches would not even let him get past the door.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
So IOW, you take a quite relaxed view of your own behaviour, and seek to impose a rather more prescriptive one on everyone else ?
Standard operating procedure for organised religion since forever.
You do not have to get too far into the Bible before the phrase "God's chosen people" pops up. "Them and us" right there! The world divided into two factions.
It is no wonder that Judaism, Christianity and Islam turned out like they did.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
I'm an atheist, but I was brought up in an Anglican school where we had to go to Chapel a few times a week and study Anglican Christianity.
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
Yes but you had to repent of your sins first for Christ to welcome you, Christ welcomed reformed sinners, he did not celebrate sin
Very good profile of Wes Streeting by @PronouncedAlva. I think the bit about the influence of his working class Tory grandad is important. Labour tend to do best when their leader doesn't associate Tory voting with morally bad. (Blair's Dad was Tory)…..
Corbyn obviously associated Tory with morally bad but Brown had it too. And Starmer talks about Labour in a oddly religious way sometimes too.
Just very hard to win the votes of people you do not understand and cannot bring yourself to think of as morally acceptable.
This is crucial. Who you vote for shouldn't be the same as supporting a football team. If you need to attract voters you need to appeal to them and not categorize them as 'scum'.
Exactly the attitude that has caused me to vote for parties of the right more often than parties of the left, despite being objectively pretty centrist, perhaps even slightly left of centre.
R4 More or Less dealing with the “only 17,371 died of COVID” bollocksmyth.
Why are people suggesting that? Are they trying to trash government statistics in general, or to advance a wider political, statistical or epidemiological point?
FUDHY spending the last two years systematically trying to put people off from voting Conservative has been a wonder to behold. He is now clearly attempting to do the same thing for the Church of England.
And JRM's battle cry that removing him means a General Election is the most pathetic piece of dissembling ever to pass his lips.
Of course it means no such thing. The tories have a whopping majority and will govern until May 2024. There is no moral, ethical or political reason why they shouldn't even if they remove Johnson.
He needs a remedial politics lesson (but JRM is right that most of the general population require one as well).
In reality our political system is very simple - we elect an MP to be our representative for 3-5 years and they decide what needs to be done.
That includes changing party allegiance and selecting a party leader who depending on the number of supporting MPs may also be Prime Minister and in charge of the country.
The issue is the manifesto.
While it is absolutely not a legally binding list of things to be done it can be reasonably taken as a statement of an MP’s beliefs (unless s/he has set out their own statement of beliefs).
If you switch from voting for everything in a manifesto to voting against everything in a manifesto merely because you switch parties you are getting close to having been elected on false pretences
The squirming at the moment, plus the frankly sinister interventions by Rees Mogg and some others, make me worry that Johnson is on a journey here. A journey towards Trump. He is going to discover that brazening it out and daring others to launch a putsch works better than trying to be contrite and ask forgiveness, and he's going to double down. That increasingly feels like where we are headed.
Boris' core supporters are also as fanatical for him as Trump's or Corbyn's were for them
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Barring people is also not in the culture of the Church of England. Unfortunately many parishioners hold views that make those who they dislike very unwelcome.
For the past 100 years it wasn't a problem because it resulted in people just going to a different CofE church but that's getting harder as the money runs out and parishes are forced to merge.
And that was my point about massive hypocrisy. Some genuinely wonderful people at the various churches I went to, and some of the most appalling. Ignoring a basic tenant of Christianity as HYUFD has just demonstrated whilst calling out others as an example.
All rather academic as I lapsed a few years before we moved and now I have a choice of Church of Scotland and Scottish Episcopal Church in the village, neither of which I have been to in fear of finding it like Dibley pre Geraldine...
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
I'm an atheist, but I was brought up in an Anglican school where we had to go to Chapel a few times a week and study Anglican Christianity.
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
Yes but you had to repent of your sins first for Christ to welcome you, Christ welcomed reformed sinners, he did not celebrate sin
Cite that in the Bible please, that he only welcomed those who had repented of their sins and would sin no more. Chapter and verse, I don't recall that.
Christ was realistic that we're all sinners, not reformed sinners.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
You would still find most Roman Catholic priests in Ireland oppose abortion and gay marriage, as does Pope Francis still, even if he is more liberal than his predecessor Benedict
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
What do you think Jesus would have to say about Boris Johnson? I suspect he might turf him out of the temple. Offer him forgiveness and the potential of redemption, of course, but chastise him and tell him to go and sin no more, which we all know is unlikely. I am not sure he would recommend him as a leader of virtue.
Virtues can be overrated.
And Jesus chose to surround himself with sinners like Mary Magdalene instead of "the virtuous".
Well kind of but the people he surrounded himself with were those who through desperation had to do things which were condemned by society. Like being a Roman tax collector or a fallen woman. He didn't choose to associate with intentionally amoral sybarites like Johnson. Having said that he would welcome him back into the fold if he showed repentance.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
The squirming at the moment, plus the frankly sinister interventions by Rees Mogg and some others, make me worry that Johnson is on a journey here. A journey towards Trump. He is going to discover that brazening it out and daring others to launch a putsch works better than trying to be contrite and ask forgiveness, and he's going to double down. That increasingly feels like where we are headed.
Boris has been doing that since September 2019 - it's nothing new.
He will brazen things out until the next election when the Tory party will be destroyed as everyone who Boris has insulted / annoyed vote for the appropriate none Tory candidate.
I can literally tell you the campaign now -
On 1 level Boris partied as people died alone, couldn't be comforted (or attend) funerals, had their wedding cancelled multiple times....
On the other - Boris promised you a brighter future - he's had 4 years and you don't have it.
Heck by the time this set of inflation is complete, I suspect most people will having living standards similar to 1992 not 2019
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
But you said the opposite. You said that these churches would not even let him get past the door.
No, I said he would not even get past the door (after he heard what they were preaching)
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Barring people is also not in the culture of the Church of England. Unfortunately many parishioners hold views that make those who they dislike very unwelcome.
For the past 100 years it wasn't a problem because it resulted in people just going to a different CofE church but that's getting harder as the money runs out and parishes are forced to merge.
And that was my point about massive hypocrisy. Some genuinely wonderful people at the various churches I went to, and some of the most appalling. Ignoring a basic tenant of Christianity as HYUFD has just demonstrated whilst calling out others as an example.
All rather academic as I lapsed a few years before we moved and now I have a choice of Church of Scotland and Scottish Episcopal Church in the village, neither of which I have been to in fear of finding it like Dibley pre Geraldine...
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
I'm an atheist, but I was brought up in an Anglican school where we had to go to Chapel a few times a week and study Anglican Christianity.
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
Yes but you had to repent of your sins first for Christ to welcome you, Christ welcomed reformed sinners, he did not celebrate sin
Cite that in the Bible please, that he only welcomed those who had repented of their sins and would sin no more. Chapter and verse, I don't recall that.
Christ was realistic that we're all sinners, not reformed sinners.
I have the impression that Christ was a lot more forgiving than the Church is.
As I understand it, he died for our sins, while the Church now expects people to do penance.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
You would still find most Roman Catholic priests in Ireland oppose abortion and gay marriage, as does Pope Francis still, even if he is more liberal than his predecessor Benedict
My problem is never the priests - its usually a vocal incredibly bigoted minority of the congregation. Priests you can talk to and while we will disagree if the enjoy a debate I'm happy to have one
When I visit Catholic churches its incredibly rare to encounter such people, I can pick at least 3 local CofE churches where they are the majority of the rapidly declining congregation.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
What do you think Jesus would have to say about Boris Johnson? I suspect he might turf him out of the temple. Offer him forgiveness and the potential of redemption, of course, but chastise him and tell him to go and sin no more, which we all know is unlikely. I am not sure he would recommend him as a leader of virtue.
Virtues can be overrated.
And Jesus chose to surround himself with sinners like Mary Magdalene instead of "the virtuous".
Nevermind that, lets focus on the important questions - what crypto currency would Jesus be ramping?
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
If there's an organised religion without massive hypocrites like him then I've yet to see it.
Very good profile of Wes Streeting by @PronouncedAlva. I think the bit about the influence of his working class Tory grandad is important. Labour tend to do best when their leader doesn't associate Tory voting with morally bad. (Blair's Dad was Tory)…..
Corbyn obviously associated Tory with morally bad but Brown had it too. And Starmer talks about Labour in a oddly religious way sometimes too.
Just very hard to win the votes of people you do not understand and cannot bring yourself to think of as morally acceptable.
Wes was also interviewed by Nick Robinson for his Political Thinking podcast. Very interesting. The same references to his working class Tory grandad...
Doesn't everyone have a working class Tory grandad? When my working class Tory grandad first met my wife he apparently told his next door neighbour that she was "as black as the ace of spades". There wasn't much political meeting of minds between my grandparents and my parents, to put it mildly... He wasn't a bad man but he wasn't a happy one and had a drinking problem in retirement - he did well for himself and his family through sheer hard work and intelligence but felt blocked by his lack of education and charm and was rather bullied by my grandma, who was smarter and more articulate than him, while neither of his daughters married men he approved of. Interestingly my wife always got on very well with my grandparents though, and I think they grew quite fond of her, no doubt helped by our reassuringly fair-complexioned children.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You know that bit in the Bible where Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep? I don't think it ended with him saying "so no worries you are gone". Perhaps you may want to reread your Bible as if your reading of His teachings is "so no worries you are gone" then you aren't using "the Bible as a guide for your life", are you?
Christianity is based on those who intend to follow Christ's teachings and the Bible. If you intend to do neither, then indeed no worries you are gone
What do you think Jesus would have to say about Boris Johnson? I suspect he might turf him out of the temple. Offer him forgiveness and the potential of redemption, of course, but chastise him and tell him to go and sin no more, which we all know is unlikely. I am not sure he would recommend him as a leader of virtue.
Virtues can be overrated.
And Jesus chose to surround himself with sinners like Mary Magdalene instead of "the virtuous".
Nevermind that, lets focus on the important questions - what crypto currency would Jesus be ramping?
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
But you said the opposite. You said that these churches would not even let him get past the door.
No, I said he would not even get past the door (after he heard what they were preaching)
How could he hear what they were preaching if he never got past the door?
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
Oh it really isn't - some parts of the church may be but the remaining congregations rarely are.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
I'm an atheist, but I was brought up in an Anglican school where we had to go to Chapel a few times a week and study Anglican Christianity.
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
Yes but you had to repent of your sins first for Christ to welcome you, Christ welcomed reformed sinners, he did not celebrate sin
Cite that in the Bible please, that he only welcomed those who had repented of their sins and would sin no more. Chapter and verse, I don't recall that.
Christ was realistic that we're all sinners, not reformed sinners.
I have the impression that Christ was a lot more forgiving than the Church is.
As I understand it, he died for our sins, while the Church now expects people to do penance.
I once heard someone say that Jesus must have been real because the Church would never have invented someone like him to be their figurehead.
The squirming at the moment, plus the frankly sinister interventions by Rees Mogg and some others, make me worry that Johnson is on a journey here. A journey towards Trump. He is going to discover that brazening it out and daring others to launch a putsch works better than trying to be contrite and ask forgiveness, and he's going to double down. That increasingly feels like where we are headed.
Johnson's entire political philosophy is to be PM this time tomorrow. Everything he does and says is geared toward ensuring that. The betterment of the nation, other people, the day after tomorrow and the tory party can get fucked.
He is on to something with this notion of ignoring the Brady Epistles. What the fuck can the rebel tories do if he ignores the VoNC?
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 2m It's interesting the different strategies being employed by Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak to Partygate. Truss being the conspicuous loyalist. Rishi being conspicuous by his absence.
Both not doing themselves any favours by their stances.
I agree. A dramatic resignation. Plenty of cricket analogies broken bats etc ending with a quote from Tony Wilson's 24 hour Party People "We've got polished bars made from ebony but we've got no toilets. FUCK!"
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
I'm an atheist, but I was brought up in an Anglican school where we had to go to Chapel a few times a week and study Anglican Christianity.
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
Yes but you had to repent of your sins first for Christ to welcome you, Christ welcomed reformed sinners, he did not celebrate sin
Cite that in the Bible please, that he only welcomed those who had repented of their sins and would sin no more. Chapter and verse, I don't recall that.
Christ was realistic that we're all sinners, not reformed sinners.
I have the impression that Christ was a lot more forgiving than the Church is.
As I understand it, he died for our sins, while the Church now expects people to do penance.
The Church (pretty much all of them) is more Paulian/Roman than it is Christ-ian.
Christ was what we'd call a very left-wing individual nowadays, HYUFD would view him as his "enemy". But very left-wing politics doesn't suit the institutions running the country, so that's not the mantra the Church evolved to adopt.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
I'm an atheist, but I was brought up in an Anglican school where we had to go to Chapel a few times a week and study Anglican Christianity.
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
Yes but you had to repent of your sins first for Christ to welcome you, Christ welcomed reformed sinners, he did not celebrate sin
Cite that in the Bible please, that he only welcomed those who had repented of their sins and would sin no more. Chapter and verse, I don't recall that.
Christ was realistic that we're all sinners, not reformed sinners.
Yes and we had to repeat of our sins.
In not one bible passage anywhere does Christ condone sin rather than accept back reformed sinners
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
He was no social conservative, quite the opposite. As demonstrated through the abandonment of Old Testament mores and the "let he who is without sin" story and much more.
You may be a social conservative, but your Lord and Saviour as you view him was the polar opposite.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
I'm an atheist, but I was brought up in an Anglican school where we had to go to Chapel a few times a week and study Anglican Christianity.
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
Yes but you had to repent of your sins first for Christ to welcome you, Christ welcomed reformed sinners, he did not celebrate sin
Cite that in the Bible please, that he only welcomed those who had repented of their sins and would sin no more. Chapter and verse, I don't recall that.
Christ was realistic that we're all sinners, not reformed sinners.
I have the impression that Christ was a lot more forgiving than the Church is.
As I understand it, he died for our sins, while the Church now expects people to do penance.
The Church (pretty much all of them) is more Paulian/Roman than it is Christ-ian.
Christ was what we'd call a very left-wing individual nowadays, HYUFD would view him as his "enemy". But very left-wing politics doesn't suit the institutions running the country, so that's not the mantra the Church evolved to adopt.
I am an atheist but certainly a Christian atheist, in the sense that my moral philosophy undoubtedly derives from Christian teachings. I've always had a lot of time for Jesus the historical figure depicted in the Bible, I just don't believe the God stuff.
I've always been puzzled, and was when I was a Christian, with what happened in the afterlife to those who had had no opportunity to meet with Christian teaching. Take my Thai grandchildren's other grandparents for example. AFAIK no Christian missionary has ever been near nor by their community. Certainly no sign of it! And they are decent, hardworking honest people.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
I'm an atheist, but I was brought up in an Anglican school where we had to go to Chapel a few times a week and study Anglican Christianity.
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
Yes but you had to repent of your sins first for Christ to welcome you, Christ welcomed reformed sinners, he did not celebrate sin
Cite that in the Bible please, that he only welcomed those who had repented of their sins and would sin no more. Chapter and verse, I don't recall that.
Christ was realistic that we're all sinners, not reformed sinners.
Yes and we had to repeat of our sins.
In not one bible passage anywhere does Christ condone sin rather than accept back reformed sinners
You can repent of your sins while still being a sinner. Repentance doesn't mean you never sin ever again for the rest of your life.
Name one passage anywhere where Christ (as opposed to Paul or the Old Testament) is "social conservative". He was the polar opposite.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
You would still find most Roman Catholic priests in Ireland oppose abortion and gay marriage, as does Pope Francis still, even if he is more liberal than his predecessor Benedict
My problem is never the priests - its usually a vocal incredibly bigoted minority of the congregation. Priests you can talk to and while we will disagree if the enjoy a debate I'm happy to have one
When I visit Catholic churches its incredibly rare to encounter such people, I can pick at least 3 local CofE churches where they are the majority of the rapidly declining congregation.
The Roman Catholic Church does not even have women priests unlike the Anglican Church and is firmly still anti gay marriage and anti abortion. The Church of England overall is more liberal than the Roman Catholic Church now
The squirming at the moment, plus the frankly sinister interventions by Rees Mogg and some others, make me worry that Johnson is on a journey here. A journey towards Trump. He is going to discover that brazening it out and daring others to launch a putsch works better than trying to be contrite and ask forgiveness, and he's going to double down. That increasingly feels like where we are headed.
It is concerning.
And Mogg's view of 'presidential' politics is anathema to parliamentary democracy. The core principle of our constitution is that the PM derives his position from command of a majority in Parliament. There is absolutely no obligation for a general election if a PN is kicked out, and to suggest otherwise is to elevate the office above Parliament.
If that is their project, let them propose a constitutional amendment, and see how much support it gets. The arrogant entitled cabal needs putting in its place.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
He was no social conservative, quite the opposite. As demonstrated through the abandonment of Old Testament mores and the "let he who is without sin" story and much more.
You may be a social conservative, but your Lord and Saviour as you view him was the polar opposite.
Wrong. Jesus did not condone adultery and supported marriage. He accepted reformed sinners he did not condone sin.
The Old Testament is also still a key part of the Christian Bible even if not the only religious book as it is for Jews and in part for Muslims
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
He was no social conservative, quite the opposite. As demonstrated through the abandonment of Old Testament mores and the "let he who is without sin" story and much more.
You may be a social conservative, but your Lord and Saviour as you view him was the polar opposite.
Wrong. Jesus did not condone adultery and supported marriage. He accepted reformed sinners he did not condone sine.
The Old Testament is also still a key part of the Christian Bible even if not the only religious book as it is for Jews and in part for Muslims
No you're wrong.
I've named socially liberal passages with Christ.
Name a single, just one, Chapter and verse where Christ is socially conservative. Any at all would do.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
But you said the opposite. You said that these churches would not even let him get past the door.
No, I said he would not even get past the door (after he heard what they were preaching)
How could he hear what they were preaching if he never got past the door?
Tbf I've been to Pentecostal churches where it would be pretty much guaranteed.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
I knew there was a whole identifying Christ with Che thing but I discover that there's also a push back from more reactionary Christians.
'The image was met with anger by conservative church members and some politicians who condemned the marketing strategy as blasphemous for using a "violent Communist and atheist" to promote Jesus. Tory MP Ann Widdecombe, who converted from the Church of England to Roman Catholicism some years previously, said: "We should be modelling ourselves on Christ, not modelling Christ on us." Former Tory MP Harry Greenway, sponsor of the Conservative Christian Fellowship, described the poster as "grossly sacrilegious" and demanded that those responsible for it should be excommunicated.[6] He threatened to protest to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr George Carey, in the "strongest possible language".'
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
Oh it really isn't - some parts of the church may be but the remaining congregations rarely are.
So I have a good friend who is gay and married (to a man...).
He goes to church.
Not that it is any of my business but I am amazed that he wants to be a part of a congregation (no matter how lovely they are as individuals) which is celebrating a belief system that actively discriminates against gay people.
FUDHY spending the last two years systematically trying to put people off from voting Conservative has been a wonder to behold. He is now clearly attempting to do the same thing for the Church of England.
I’m beginning to wonder whether HYUFD is another very carefully crafted SeanT alter ego.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
About the most liberal church there is? CofE doesn't even perform same-sex marriages (unlike many other christian denominations). That is pretty much the definition of illiberal. It's actually pretty disgusting that they are against human rights in that way.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
You would still find most Roman Catholic priests in Ireland oppose abortion and gay marriage, as does Pope Francis still, even if he is more liberal than his predecessor Benedict
My problem is never the priests - its usually a vocal incredibly bigoted minority of the congregation. Priests you can talk to and while we will disagree if the enjoy a debate I'm happy to have one
When I visit Catholic churches its incredibly rare to encounter such people, I can pick at least 3 local CofE churches where they are the majority of the rapidly declining congregation.
The Roman Catholic Church does not even have women priests unlike the Anglican Church and is firmly still anti gay marriage and anti abortion. The Church of England overall is more liberal than the Roman Catholic Church now
You are comparing a world order with a regional sub branch (albeit one in charge of the head office). What are the Anglican Communion's viewpoint on such things?
Comments
To be fair my blindness on this front has helped me in business. Whilst I can see that some managers like to be told what they want to be told, reality alwys catches up and overrides the fantasy. In the commercial world the number is the number - you might not like it, it may be politically untenable but it doesn't change what it is. Better to accept it and build the narrative around reality than just bullshit through it - the web of lies always unravels.
In reality our political system is very simple - we elect an MP to be our representative for 3-5 years and they decide what needs to be done.
That includes changing party allegiance and selecting a party leader who depending on the number of supporting MPs may also be Prime Minister and in charge of the country.
I sense that for all the flack you get from others, you are actually a person of moral principles. Please stop defending the indefensible.
Corbyn obviously associated Tory with morally bad but Brown had it too. And Starmer talks about Labour in a oddly religious way sometimes too.
Just very hard to win the votes of people you do not understand and cannot bring yourself to think of as morally acceptable.
https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1486050921088008193?s=20
Attlee married a Tory…
When on earth is Putin going to ride into Ukraine to save Johnson?
Compare and contrast Luke 15:3 with "so no worries you are gone". Or don't. Honestly don't care either way. Its just really making me laugh so thanks for that.
However, I also know that given decent infrastructure we could do a lot more and could easily become way more productive and with that generate way more tax.
Being blunt the issue isn't with any Government it's with the Treasury who can see the price of everything and the value of absolutely nothing when it comes to big cost projects.
Prime examples:-=
BBC - should sat with Netflix as a world leader in quality TV
BT - we should have had fibre to the house everywhere back in the early 2000s
HS2 - fast passenger trains open capacity to move freight on to rail and provide regular local services.
And that's off the top of my head based on recent topics.
Huge row' behind scenes over how Sue Gray report released - as minister claims 'security concerns' mean full report may not be revealed to public
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1486267500937592833?s=20
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0bfyr10
For the past 100 years it wasn't a problem because it resulted in people just going to a different CofE church but that's getting harder as the money runs out and parishes are forced to merge.
A. Which legal entity inherits the property?
B. Which legal entity inherits the bank accounts?
If the answer is the English Conservative Party then Ross et al better find some extremely generous donors pronto.
Anyway, thank God for Paterson I say, not words often heard I imagine.
And Jesus chose to surround himself with sinners like Mary Magdalene instead of "the virtuous".
"Forgive us father for we have sinned" not "cast out the sinners" is how the Chaplain would speak.
Jesus himself said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" not "stone the sinners".
HYUFD may be religious and I'm not, but he doesn't know the first thing about Christ.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness" and all that!
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
My biggest problem is highlighted by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdzmbNkmJfI
It is no wonder that Judaism, Christianity and Islam turned out like they did.
While it is absolutely not a legally binding list of things to be done it can be reasonably taken as a statement of an MP’s beliefs (unless s/he has set out their own statement of beliefs).
If you switch from voting for everything in a manifesto to voting against everything in a manifesto merely because you switch parties you are getting close to having been elected on false pretences
All rather academic as I lapsed a few years before we moved and now I have a choice of Church of Scotland and Scottish Episcopal Church in the village, neither of which I have been to in fear of finding it like Dibley pre Geraldine...
Christ was realistic that we're all sinners, not reformed sinners.
He will brazen things out until the next election when the Tory party will be destroyed as everyone who Boris has insulted / annoyed vote for the appropriate none Tory candidate.
I can literally tell you the campaign now -
On 1 level Boris partied as people died alone, couldn't be comforted (or attend) funerals, had their wedding cancelled multiple times....
On the other - Boris promised you a brighter future - he's had 4 years and you don't have it.
Heck by the time this set of inflation is complete, I suspect most people will having living standards similar to 1992 not 2019
As I understand it, he died for our sins, while the Church now expects people to do penance.
When I visit Catholic churches its incredibly rare to encounter such people, I can pick at least 3 local CofE churches where they are the majority of the rapidly declining congregation.
When my working class Tory grandad first met my wife he apparently told his next door neighbour that she was "as black as the ace of spades". There wasn't much political meeting of minds between my grandparents and my parents, to put it mildly...
He wasn't a bad man but he wasn't a happy one and had a drinking problem in retirement - he did well for himself and his family through sheer hard work and intelligence but felt blocked by his lack of education and charm and was rather bullied by my grandma, who was smarter and more articulate than him, while neither of his daughters married men he approved of.
Interestingly my wife always got on very well with my grandparents though, and I think they grew quite fond of her, no doubt helped by our reassuringly fair-complexioned children.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
He is on to something with this notion of ignoring the Brady Epistles. What the fuck can the rebel tories do if he ignores the VoNC?
Christ was what we'd call a very left-wing individual nowadays, HYUFD would view him as his "enemy". But very left-wing politics doesn't suit the institutions running the country, so that's not the mantra the Church evolved to adopt.
In not one bible passage anywhere does Christ condone sin rather than accept back reformed sinners
You may be a social conservative, but your Lord and Saviour as you view him was the polar opposite.
I will check back later to see if God has launched a thunderbolt at Boris Johnson. Or possibly the other way around...
And they are decent, hardworking honest people.
Name one passage anywhere where Christ (as opposed to Paul or the Old Testament) is "social conservative". He was the polar opposite.
And Mogg's view of 'presidential' politics is anathema to parliamentary democracy.
The core principle of our constitution is that the PM derives his position from command of a majority in Parliament. There is absolutely no obligation for a general election if a PN is kicked out, and to suggest otherwise is to elevate the office above Parliament.
If that is their project, let them propose a constitutional amendment, and see how much support it gets. The arrogant entitled cabal needs putting in its place.
The Old Testament is also still a key part of the Christian Bible even if not the only religious book as it is for Jews and in part for Muslims
John Bull
@garius
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7m
I see Cosplay Thatcher is now trying to do an actual Thatcher voice as well.
John Bull
@garius
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3m
Compare with classic Liz, pre-Thatcher Senpai stage.
She's been coached to talk lower, slower and less expressively.
I presume in part by the old "move your mouth less" trick (I use it doing voice overs where I need to sound like a senior army officer).
I've named socially liberal passages with Christ.
Name a single, just one, Chapter and verse where Christ is socially conservative. Any at all would do.
You can't, because he wasn't.
'The image was met with anger by conservative church members and some politicians who condemned the marketing strategy as blasphemous for using a "violent Communist and atheist" to promote Jesus.
Tory MP Ann Widdecombe, who converted from the Church of England to Roman Catholicism some years previously, said: "We should be modelling ourselves on Christ, not modelling Christ on us."
Former Tory MP Harry Greenway, sponsor of the Conservative Christian Fellowship, described the poster as "grossly sacrilegious" and demanded that those responsible for it should be excommunicated.[6] He threatened to protest to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr George Carey, in the "strongest possible language".'
He goes to church.
Not that it is any of my business but I am amazed that he wants to be a part of a congregation (no matter how lovely they are as individuals) which is celebrating a belief system that actively discriminates against gay people.