Sunak should have pulled rank and hammered Brady Old Lady with about 40 letters from his acolytes this week. He’d be PM within weeks. Now he might well never be.
I must have missed it but what is the significance of Norman ?
No worries Big G
We were calling him The Invisible Assailant who does the leaking, but were fortunate to have Leon give us a metaphor of Norman Bates stabbing a victim to death in shower. because we can now shorten The Invisible Assailant bit of a mouthful down to Norman. What tends to happen is, Cummings blogs something, like look at the party on the 20th, which might make a footnote of the times front page. Then “Norman” follows up with the actual bring your invite and it’s headlines everywhere. They are a double act.
That’s Norman. 🙂 There’s several reasons why Norman is important. Without Cummings and Norman doing their weekly double act, the polls were quickly coming back together in new year despite the partygate and other gates leading to Shropshire North and couple of 8% Labour leads before Christmas. 3rd Jan RWS had Boris Tories back to only 3 behind, polling 6-9th yougov and comres had it already down to 4. The rest of the best of UK investigative journalism can’t sustain it without Normans evidence, even though some of them, like the paper with its finger on the pulse of the nation The Sun had editor at the party’s! The longer it goes without Norman, the stronger Boris gets the more it’s gets set back to the start again.
Are you up to speed on the meaning of the winged totenkopf?
PS Down below when you said the big party nite with the DJ was not politicians but civil servants, wasn’t it mostly spads, aren’t they different than CS?
Thanks for that and it makes sense
As I understood the two parties on the same night were the civil servant staff but I stand to be corrected and I am sure it will be identified in SG report next week
Needs to be £21 a week by now, surely the poorest in society should get the same triple lock that we offer the richest cohort?
Once again those on other benefits e.g. disability or ESA or Carers are forgotten and ignored. Perhaps because they don't register with news editors?
ESA is part of Universal Credit.
Not so.
New-style ESA is a contribution-based benefit, not means tested and usually payable for only one year. Completely separate from UC (albeit a parallel UC claim will take any ESA in payment into account, and will be accordingly reduced).
And there are still people on legacy benefits.
Well indeed. And whose bloody fault is it that 11 years into government their flagship benefits policy still hasn't been rolled out?
Anyone on a means-tested legacy benefit is at liberty to claim UC instead.
How surprised can we really be about Boris Johnson’s No 10 shenanigans? He has always been a rule-flouting, outrage-inducing politician – that’s why he managed to deliver Brexit, save the Conservative Party and win the biggest majority they’ve seen in a generation. Covid-19 restrictions are now being dropped because his vaccine programme (again) triumphed. He has arguably achieved more in 30 months than John Major did in seven years – and he gets kicked out because his staff held a few parties?
Fraser makes a good case for him imo, but it's a coin toss whether he stays or goes.
Yes. But it isn't because his staff held a few parties, is it, Fraser?
The neolibs don't want to let their golden boy go under... but they can see that nothing can really save him now.
Why do you think he's stirring things up in the Ukraine if not as a decoy to distract from all this partying and dissembling?
Wait.. do you think Boris Johnson is responsible for all this Ukraine stuff?
Sorry I can't help you Farouk. You'll just have to scratch a bit harder.
Ah-ha. Clever. "I made a stupid statement about something I know nothing about, I don't fancy doubling down on it, so I'll go for something cryptic and hope it's mistaken for profound." Classic move, we're in the shimmering white heat of greatness here.
Literally no one in the BBC QT audience willing to speak up for Johnson.
Right now it’s like ‘defend the indefensible’ at the end of R5s fighting talk. There is no defence. You can work out how they got to this point, but it doesn’t make it right.
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Actually those parties that night took place while Boris was at Chequers
The one he accepted he went to was in May 20
However, he will still lose his premiership because of his lack of awareness
I think he's going to make it BigG. However he does need to sack one hell of a lot of civil servants and severely discipline the party whips.
Maybe with what is going on in the Ukraine we need a great Churchillian war leader, Johnson thinks he possesses the right qualities, let's hope he's correct.
Once he starts sacking the letters will pour in seeking his own resignation
Even if we get the 54 letters he should still get the 181 votes (or whatever it is) to survive.
I am resigned to many years of Johnson.
I cannot contemplate any UK politician in my lifetime coming close to surviving such a ****storm. Anyone else would have gone weeks ago. But Boris will be Boris.
I would not be surprised if you are correct. I was wondering about this in a previous thread
Bridgen who I detest was using the "B" word earlier. I think Wragg might have too. We are now in the realms of Putin or Berlusconi....or even Mugabe.
"Chimpanzees and bonobos, which for the most part lack ornamentation, are by nature promiscuous species, females typically mating with multiple males. This means that within the female reproductive system, there’s competition among sperm to fertilize the egg. To secure better chances of outcompeting the gametes of rival males, it pays off to produce more sperm, and growing larger testes is one way to do that, Lüpold explains."
So Lloyd George Knew my Mother is the key point?
Couldn't possibly comment (I may be missing an allusion there, however).
Lloyd George knew my father is a traditional reference to nepotism. There is even a song about it. Remarkably, it is also (though via a descendent of that Lloyd George) how a current minister got his big break. (Hint: Jacob Rees-Mogg.)
Lloyd George knew my father Father knew Lloyd George Lloyd George knew my father Father knew Lloyd George
I preferred the fact that “Bob’s your uncle” specifically referred to the fact that about 1/3 of Salisbury’s cabinet were related to him (including Arthur Balfour who was the target of the remark)
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
We are being told to wait for the Gray report. As soon as it is released we will be told to move on and forget about it.
Needs to be £21 a week by now, surely the poorest in society should get the same triple lock that we offer the richest cohort?
Once again those on other benefits e.g. disability or ESA or Carers are forgotten and ignored. Perhaps because they don't register with news editors?
ESA is part of Universal Credit.
Not so.
New-style ESA is a contribution-based benefit, not means tested and usually payable for only one year. Completely separate from UC (albeit a parallel UC claim will take any ESA in payment into account, and will be accordingly reduced).
And there are still people on legacy benefits.
Well indeed. And whose bloody fault is it that 11 years into government their flagship benefits policy still hasn't been rolled out?
Anyone on a means-tested legacy benefit is at liberty to claim UC instead.
Yes but. Quite often you're worse off. So why would you?
Needs to be £21 a week by now, surely the poorest in society should get the same triple lock that we offer the richest cohort?
Once again those on other benefits e.g. disability or ESA or Carers are forgotten and ignored. Perhaps because they don't register with news editors?
ESA is part of Universal Credit.
Not so.
New-style ESA is a contribution-based benefit, not means tested and usually payable for only one year. Completely separate from UC (albeit a parallel UC claim will take any ESA in payment into account, and will be accordingly reduced).
And there are still people on legacy benefits.
Well indeed. And whose bloody fault is it that 11 years into government their flagship benefits policy still hasn't been rolled out?
Anyone on a means-tested legacy benefit is at liberty to claim UC instead.
Yes but. Quite often you're worse off. So why would you?
Is that true with the recent changes to the taper?
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
We are being told to wait for the Gray report. As soon as it is released we will be told to move on and forget about it.
The report will be released but the rest will not happen
I expect immediate consequences for Boris and his mps
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
Sorry but it will be released in full next week
I read somewhere that only a summary will be released to the public.
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
We are being told to wait for the Gray report. As soon as it is released we will be told to move on and forget about it.
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
Sorry but it will be released in full next week
I read somewhere that only a summary will be released to the public.
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
Sorry but it will be released in full next week
I read somewhere that only a summary will be released to the public.
Even if that were the case, I doubt it would remain that way for long.
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
We are being told to wait for the Gray report. As soon as it is released we will be told to move on and forget about it.
The report will be released but the rest will not happen
I expect immediate consequences for Boris and his mps
Really? It will be heavily managed. Boris wants everyone to wait for that for a reason. He thinks he can control it.
Needs to be £21 a week by now, surely the poorest in society should get the same triple lock that we offer the richest cohort?
Once again those on other benefits e.g. disability or ESA or Carers are forgotten and ignored. Perhaps because they don't register with news editors?
ESA is part of Universal Credit.
Not so.
New-style ESA is a contribution-based benefit, not means tested and usually payable for only one year. Completely separate from UC (albeit a parallel UC claim will take any ESA in payment into account, and will be accordingly reduced).
And there are still people on legacy benefits.
Well indeed. And whose bloody fault is it that 11 years into government their flagship benefits policy still hasn't been rolled out?
Anyone on a means-tested legacy benefit is at liberty to claim UC instead.
Yes but. Quite often you're worse off. So why would you?
Is that true with the recent changes to the taper?
Yes, sometimes you will be worse off moving to UC, regardless of the taper. Some people can also be better off moving to UC, it should be said.
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
Sorry but it will be released in full next week
I read somewhere that only a summary will be released to the public.
Even if that were the case, I doubt it would remain that way for long.
Fair point. Plus a failure to officially release the whole report plays into the Opposition's hands.
I saw that in the newsagent this morning and assumed it was something to do with the high priestess of the plotters who is MP for Melton Mowbray. But the slicing it up with mustard, absolutely no idea. None.
Sky suggesting VONC on Wednesday after report published on Monday.
By Monday it'll be "next month, folks"
I'm getting a lot of flashbacks to the endless leaking and moaning of the Corbyn years. They've started out with more on the record, which is good, as anonymous whinging and promising things that never happen gets old quick.
It was a Pie chart literally, shoring up Boris by showing him ahead. At the same time Pork Pie Plotters was invented in number 10 to ridicule and turn attention on the rebels, and Team Boris in the press have willingly joined in the intimidation.
What is there not to like about a pie chart that is actually a pie?
Re blackmail of MPs, wasn't it Sunak who wrote a letter during the Chesham & Amersham by-election suggesting that only a Tory MP could work with a Tory government?
I think the media interprets Tory MPs not replying to their texts as an indication that nothing serious is happening, when the reality is that the only time Tory MPs don't fellate the media is when something serious is happening. Johnson should be terrified whenever his critics shut up.
It was a Pie chart literally, shoring up Boris by showing him ahead. At the same time Pork Pie Plotters was invented in number 1o to ridicule and turn attention on the rebels, and Team Boris in the press have willingly joined in the intimidation.
What is there not to like about a pie chart that is actually a pie?
You said a few times now that you're a Lib Dem and I've never believed you. But your praise of weird graphs is making me rethink.
It was a Pie chart literally, shoring up Boris by showing him ahead. At the same time Pork Pie Plotters was invented in number 1o to ridicule and turn attention on the rebels, and Team Boris in the press have willingly joined in the intimidation.
What is there not to like about a pie chart that is actually a pie?
You said a few times now that you're a Lib Dem and I've never believed you. But your praise of weird graphs is making me rethink.
How could you doubt me Farooq!
If I wasn’t a Libdem why would I stay up drinking all by election night and end up 🤮🤮🤮 over everything in excitement?
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
We are being told to wait for the Gray report. As soon as it is released we will be told to move on and forget about it.
The report will be released but the rest will not happen
I expect immediate consequences for Boris and his mps
Really? It will be heavily managed. Boris wants everyone to wait for that for a reason. He thinks he can control it.
Not sure about the final sentence - but the UK clearly intends to raise the cost to Russia of invasion.
Here's a time-lapse of all of the United Kingdom to #Ukraine weapons airlift flights from the morning of the 17th of January to this very minute on the 19th of January 2022. The UK has no intention of letting Ukraine fall.
And speaking of mad, I don't know how it determines this, but my BBC homepage is a mad mix of stories - top left a story about fans returning to stadiums in Wales (where I do not live) as covid rules ease, a story about 'What is Sue Gray investigating?', fair enougj, and a story about a man using a 72 year old toaster every day in Northamptonshire (where I also do not live).
This, from the NY AG's office press release about the subpoenas for Trump, Ivanka and Junior, is priceless:
"Mr. Trump’s 2015 and 2016 financial statement reported the value of Mr. Trump’s triplex apartment as $327 million, based on the apartment having 30,000 square feet of space multiplied by a certain price per square foot. In testimony to OAG, Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg admitted that the value of Mr. Trump’s apartment was overstated by “give or take” $200 million."
Compounding this problem is that the rules as they stand mean should Johnson win a confidence vote, he could not be challenged for another year.
Tory MPs who aren’t sure what to do are using this scenario to argue that they would be better off waiting until after the local elections in May before deciding. This position is unpopular with those who have councillors up for elections in May.
I understand that at a meeting of the 1922 Committee executive this week it was suggested that they should discuss a rule change designed to deal with this problem. A threshold of 25 per cent would be set for a second ballot within a year. This would mean that if a ballot were held in the coming weeks that Johnson survived, there could then be another one after, say, the local elections, assuming 90 Tory MPs wanted it.
If Sue Gray finds that Johnson did break the ministerial code and lied to parliament, yet he doesn't resign, and wins a Vonc, what happens next?
Didn't the Australian Governor General sack a PM in the 70s?
Does the Queen have the power to do that?
Asking for a friend....
Well, the VONC we’re looking at now is purely within the Tory party. If he lost it, he’s under no obligation to make a pro-forma “I resign but offer to stay on as caretaker until my party elects a new leader” resignation to the Queen. If he loses the party VONC but refuses to resign as PM, then a proper Parliamentary VONC would have to take place, but IIRC only the LOTO can move that, so maybe SKS would prefer to see the Tories squirm. If Boris loses a parliamentary VONC but doesn’t resign after that, then the FTPA no-confidence provisions would have to be executed which would almost certainly end in a dissolution and a General Election. Only then if Boris refuses to resign would the Queen have to dismiss him.
Literally no one in the BBC QT audience willing to speak up for Johnson.
St Andrews and not even a teeny ripple for the Tory and his sockpuppet businessman. Unusual.
Ooh QT from my home town! I should have watched it for a change. So strange to think that it used to have a Tory MP, it would be unthinkable now.
Aside from one red-faced potholes and spendthrift SNP obsessive it was oddly subdued, as if everyone knew BJ was a complete arse and there wasn't much else to say. Christopher Brookmyre is usually quite good value but he was barely able to get a good Tory slagging rap going.
Phillip Blond on GB News pointing out that maybe it's a good thing if a younger generation of Tory MPs have decided they don't want to go along with the traditional methods that the whips have allegedly tended to use to pressurise MPs to vote the right way.
Callaghan - Winter of Discontent Mrs Thatcher - Europe/Poll Tax/General staleness Major - Europe/lots of other stuff Blair - Middle East Brown - Economy/leadership style Cameron - Europe May - Europe Boris - a few pissups?
Its not the pissups so much as all the lies / attempted cover up and also it is increasingly clear it wasn't a single incident, it is culture of just ignoring the rules over the course of at least a year.
Spot on.
A quick apology, explaining how much stress his team was under given how hard they were working, "in retrospect, this informal gathering was against the rules, and should not have happened. For that I apologize."
Done. All over.
Instead we had 'there was no party' and then 'there was no party' and then 'I didn't know the party was against the rules because no one told me.'
The party was not a big thing. Lying repeatedly, on the other hand, is.
The Party was quite a big thing, Robert.
It's easy to forget now just how strictly enforced and complied with the lockdown regulations were then. A party of any size anywhere woud have been likely to have attracted a fair degree of attention and opprobrium.
But at Downing Street....?
Maybe I'm just naturally more forgiving than you are, but I think he could have survived the party. Sure, it would have been hypocritical, but he could have said:
"All the people in attendance had been working, 16, 18 hours a day in very close proximity, working to fight this pandemic and to deliver the vaccines that saved so many lives. Given how much time they spent inside together, doing essential, lifesaving work, we took the view that the additional risk of transmission of Covid was minimal. And while that was no doubt the case, it was still wrong for us to have had the gathering."
How surprised can we really be about Boris Johnson’s No 10 shenanigans? He has always been a rule-flouting, outrage-inducing politician – that’s why he managed to deliver Brexit, save the Conservative Party and win the biggest majority they’ve seen in a generation. Covid-19 restrictions are now being dropped because his vaccine programme (again) triumphed. He has arguably achieved more in 30 months than John Major did in seven years – and he gets kicked out because his staff held a few parties?
Fraser makes a good case for him imo, but it's a coin toss whether he stays or goes.
That's not the point.
The point is that he lied, repeatedly.
You know what I look for in a leader (and in an employee) - the ability to recognise when a mistake has been made, to apologise, and to move on.
I wouldn't employ someone who lied to me - I'm a 'one lie and you're out' kind of guy. Why the fuck should we accept repeated lies from those we employ to run the country?
Literally no one in the BBC QT audience willing to speak up for Johnson.
St Andrews and not even a teeny ripple for the Tory and his sockpuppet businessman. Unusual.
Ooh QT from my home town! I should have watched it for a change. So strange to think that it used to have a Tory MP, it would be unthinkable now.
Aside from one red-faced potholes and spendthrift SNP obsessive it was oddly subdued, as if everyone knew BJ was a complete arse and there wasn't much else to say. Christopher Brookmyre is usually quite good value but he was barely able to get a good Tory slagging rap going.
Christopher Brookmyre (used to) write some amazing books.
Callaghan - Winter of Discontent Mrs Thatcher - Europe/Poll Tax/General staleness Major - Europe/lots of other stuff Blair - Middle East Brown - Economy/leadership style Cameron - Europe May - Europe Boris - a few pissups?
Its not the pissups so much as all the lies / attempted cover up and also it is increasingly clear it wasn't a single incident, it is culture of just ignoring the rules over the course of at least a year.
Spot on.
A quick apology, explaining how much stress his team was under given how hard they were working, "in retrospect, this informal gathering was against the rules, and should not have happened. For that I apologize."
Done. All over.
Instead we had 'there was no party' and then 'there was no party' and then 'I didn't know the party was against the rules because no one told me.'
The party was not a big thing. Lying repeatedly, on the other hand, is.
The Party was quite a big thing, Robert.
It's easy to forget now just how strictly enforced and complied with the lockdown regulations were then. A party of any size anywhere woud have been likely to have attracted a fair degree of attention and opprobrium.
But at Downing Street....?
Maybe I'm just naturally more forgiving than you are, but I think he could have survived the party. Sure, it would have been hypocritical, but he could have said:
"All the people in attendance had been working, 16, 18 hours a day in very close proximity, working to fight this pandemic and to deliver the vaccines that saved so many lives. Given how much time they spent inside together, doing essential, lifesaving work, we took the view that the additional risk of transmission of Covid was minimal. And while that was no doubt the case, it was still wrong for us to have had the gathering."
After a couple of frenetic days, it seems quieter tonight. Has the Prime Minister ridden out the storm of criticism or are we all awaiting the Gray report with breath most bated?
I find it highly amusing that people think that Boris will give a f**k what is in the Gray report.
This is a man who had parties whilst the monarch was socially isolating at her husband's funeral.
After that, do you think he gives a toss about some report?
Said from the start it would be a whitewash. And if it isn't it won't be released. The PM is that shameless.
Sorry but it will be released in full next week
I read somewhere that only a summary will be released to the public.
Somebody will probably leak the full thing.
Ms Gray is apparently allergic to email and to written documentation. She prefers to give all advice in person or over the phone.
How surprised can we really be about Boris Johnson’s No 10 shenanigans? He has always been a rule-flouting, outrage-inducing politician – that’s why he managed to deliver Brexit, save the Conservative Party and win the biggest majority they’ve seen in a generation. Covid-19 restrictions are now being dropped because his vaccine programme (again) triumphed. He has arguably achieved more in 30 months than John Major did in seven years – and he gets kicked out because his staff held a few parties?
Fraser makes a good case for him imo, but it's a coin toss whether he stays or goes.
That's not the point.
The point is that he lied, repeatedly.
You know what I look for in a leader (and in an employee) - the ability to recognise when a mistake has been made, to apologise, and to move on.
I wouldn't employ someone who lied to me - I'm a 'one lie and you're out' kind of guy. Why the fuck should we accept repeated lies from those we employ to run the country?
Is it not subtly different in world of politics? These more honest politicians lose us the coalition on which our majority is built - this charismatic rogue known to tell porkies still wins us the election.
If it’s certain Sunak or Truss lose the election, Boris will win it, does that change your principled stand at all?
Callaghan - Winter of Discontent Mrs Thatcher - Europe/Poll Tax/General staleness Major - Europe/lots of other stuff Blair - Middle East Brown - Economy/leadership style Cameron - Europe May - Europe Boris - a few pissups?
Its not the pissups so much as all the lies / attempted cover up and also it is increasingly clear it wasn't a single incident, it is culture of just ignoring the rules over the course of at least a year.
Spot on.
A quick apology, explaining how much stress his team was under given how hard they were working, "in retrospect, this informal gathering was against the rules, and should not have happened. For that I apologize."
Done. All over.
Instead we had 'there was no party' and then 'there was no party' and then 'I didn't know the party was against the rules because no one told me.'
The party was not a big thing. Lying repeatedly, on the other hand, is.
The Party was quite a big thing, Robert.
It's easy to forget now just how strictly enforced and complied with the lockdown regulations were then. A party of any size anywhere woud have been likely to have attracted a fair degree of attention and opprobrium.
But at Downing Street....?
Maybe I'm just naturally more forgiving than you are, but I think he could have survived the party. Sure, it would have been hypocritical, but he could have said:
"All the people in attendance had been working, 16, 18 hours a day in very close proximity, working to fight this pandemic and to deliver the vaccines that saved so many lives. Given how much time they spent inside together, doing essential, lifesaving work, we took the view that the additional risk of transmission of Covid was minimal. And while that was no doubt the case, it was still wrong for us to have had the gathering."
In isolation perhaps but most people obeyed the rules even if that meant family members unvisited in care homes, dying alone or giving birth alone. The iconic photograph of partygate is not the one of the Downing Street garden, it is the Queen isolated at Philip's funeral.
Callaghan - Winter of Discontent Mrs Thatcher - Europe/Poll Tax/General staleness Major - Europe/lots of other stuff Blair - Middle East Brown - Economy/leadership style Cameron - Europe May - Europe Boris - a few pissups?
Its not the pissups so much as all the lies / attempted cover up and also it is increasingly clear it wasn't a single incident, it is culture of just ignoring the rules over the course of at least a year.
Spot on.
A quick apology, explaining how much stress his team was under given how hard they were working, "in retrospect, this informal gathering was against the rules, and should not have happened. For that I apologize."
Done. All over.
Instead we had 'there was no party' and then 'there was no party' and then 'I didn't know the party was against the rules because no one told me.'
The party was not a big thing. Lying repeatedly, on the other hand, is.
The Party was quite a big thing, Robert.
It's easy to forget now just how strictly enforced and complied with the lockdown regulations were then. A party of any size anywhere woud have been likely to have attracted a fair degree of attention and opprobrium.
But at Downing Street....?
Maybe I'm just naturally more forgiving than you are, but I think he could have survived the party. Sure, it would have been hypocritical, but he could have said:
"All the people in attendance had been working, 16, 18 hours a day in very close proximity, working to fight this pandemic and to deliver the vaccines that saved so many lives. Given how much time they spent inside together, doing essential, lifesaving work, we took the view that the additional risk of transmission of Covid was minimal. And while that was no doubt the case, it was still wrong for us to have had the gathering."
I agree with this, and am stunned he didn't realise this was his best play. It would still have attracted a lot of criticism for obvious reasons, but he should have known when the first party leaked that one of the dozens of people who saw him at the other parties would leak that. Given this, his best option was obviously to get out ahead of it and make as fulsome an apology as he could with the hope that he got some credit for being honest and taking responsibility. If that did work, then future revelations would have had much less impact because he would already have accepted he had fallen short.
By denying it he just shreds his credibility when the truth inevitably comes out and makes the revelations hit so much harder. Totally counter-productive comms strategy.
The parties were really bad, given 90% of the public stuck to very strict lockdown rules in early 2020 and will therefore be really stung to hear Downing St were ignoring them. But that's no reason to make the situation even worse for himself!
And it's not like this wasn't predictable. He's been in politics for decades, he's seen dozens of scandals play out. The idea he could conceal his involvement indefinitely once the parties began leaking was always deeply unlikely.
Callaghan - Winter of Discontent Mrs Thatcher - Europe/Poll Tax/General staleness Major - Europe/lots of other stuff Blair - Middle East Brown - Economy/leadership style Cameron - Europe May - Europe Boris - a few pissups?
Its not the pissups so much as all the lies / attempted cover up and also it is increasingly clear it wasn't a single incident, it is culture of just ignoring the rules over the course of at least a year.
Spot on.
A quick apology, explaining how much stress his team was under given how hard they were working, "in retrospect, this informal gathering was against the rules, and should not have happened. For that I apologize."
Done. All over.
Instead we had 'there was no party' and then 'there was no party' and then 'I didn't know the party was against the rules because no one told me.'
The party was not a big thing. Lying repeatedly, on the other hand, is.
The Party was quite a big thing, Robert.
It's easy to forget now just how strictly enforced and complied with the lockdown regulations were then. A party of any size anywhere woud have been likely to have attracted a fair degree of attention and opprobrium.
But at Downing Street....?
Maybe I'm just naturally more forgiving than you are, but I think he could have survived the party. Sure, it would have been hypocritical, but he could have said:
"All the people in attendance had been working, 16, 18 hours a day in very close proximity, working to fight this pandemic and to deliver the vaccines that saved so many lives. Given how much time they spent inside together, doing essential, lifesaving work, we took the view that the additional risk of transmission of Covid was minimal. And while that was no doubt the case, it was still wrong for us to have had the gathering."
I agree with this, and am stunned he didn't realise this was his best play. It would still have attracted a lot of criticism for obvious reasons, but he should have known when the first party leaked that one of the dozens of people who saw him at the other parties would leak that. Given this, his best option was obviously to get out ahead of it and make as fulsome an apology as he could with the hope that he got some credit for being honest and taking responsibility. If that did work, then future revelations would have had much less impact because he would already have accepted he had fallen short.
By denying it he just shreds his credibility when the truth inevitably comes out and makes the revelations hit so much harder. Totally counter-productive comms strategy.
The parties were really bad, given 90% of the public stuck to very strict lockdown rules in early 2020 and will therefore be really stung to hear Downing St were ignoring them. But that's no reason to make the situation even worse for himself!
And it's not like this wasn't predictable. He's been in politics for decades, he's seen dozens of scandals play out. The idea he could conceal his involvement indefinitely once the parties began leaking was always deeply unlikely.
You’ve identified the flaw in always simply saying whatever the best thing is, to get off the hook you are on at the time.
When facing a series of hooks, there is merit in considering them together.
That would, however, have required a degree of forward thinking and anticipation for which he isn’t noted. And perhaps the really difficult bit would have been foregoing the optimal response for the immediately pressing hook?
Comments
As I understood the two parties on the same night were the civil servant staff but I stand to be corrected and I am sure it will be identified in SG report next week
Red Wall MP: "If I do support the PM I won't have a seat after the next election!"
There is no defence. You can work out how they got to this point, but it doesn’t make it right.
But, even so…
I expect immediate consequences for Boris and his mps
And Matts actually put out a duff cartoon for once.
It’s just that he also produces sheer genius once or twice a week.
Unusual.
What about yesterday's utterly bizarre Sun front page?
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/jan/20/the-sun-baffles-social-media-with-pork-pie-front-page-in-support-of-johnson
Night all.
I bought the Times.
It was a Pie chart literally, shoring up Boris by showing him ahead. At the same time Pork Pie Plotters was invented in number 10 to ridicule and turn attention on the rebels, and Team Boris in the press have willingly joined in the intimidation.
What is there not to like about a pie chart that is actually a pie?
I believe it was - see https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/06/09/favoured-voters/.
Can’t the rest of UK media investigative journalists help out? Don’t they have any contacts or any skills?
If I wasn’t a Libdem why would I stay up drinking all by election night and end up 🤮🤮🤮 over everything in excitement?
Smells nearly gone now by the way.
Massive result for Johnson.
Sky expecting confidence vote next Wednesday
clearly intends to raise the cost to Russia of invasion.
Here's a time-lapse of all of the United Kingdom to #Ukraine weapons airlift flights from the morning of the 17th of January to this very minute on the 19th of January 2022. The UK has no intention of letting Ukraine fall.
https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1483899430378127365?s=20
Con: 215
Lab: 207
Green: 25
I’m not sure I’d call an 8 vote majority “massive”.
And speaking of mad, I don't know how it determines this, but my BBC homepage is a mad mix of stories - top left a story about fans returning to stadiums in Wales (where I do not live) as covid rules ease, a story about 'What is Sue Gray investigating?', fair enougj, and a story about a man using a 72 year old toaster every day in Northamptonshire (where I also do not live).
Truly the top three things I need to know.
Curse those brythonic supermen!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_country#Accuracy
"Mr. Trump’s 2015 and 2016 financial statement reported the value of Mr. Trump’s triplex apartment as $327 million, based on the apartment having 30,000 square feet of space multiplied by a certain price per square foot. In testimony to OAG, Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg admitted that the value of Mr. Trump’s apartment was overstated by “give or take” $200 million."
https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2022/attorney-general-james-takes-action-force-donald-j-trump-donald-trump-jr-and
18.7% UKIP and far right BDP vote last time.
"All the people in attendance had been working, 16, 18 hours a day in very close proximity, working to fight this pandemic and to deliver the vaccines that saved so many lives. Given how much time they spent inside together, doing essential, lifesaving work, we took the view that the additional risk of transmission of Covid was minimal. And while that was no doubt the case, it was still wrong for us to have had the gathering."
Kicking the Belgian ambassador in the ass.
The point is that he lied, repeatedly.
You know what I look for in a leader (and in an employee) - the ability to recognise when a mistake has been made, to apologise, and to move on.
I wouldn't employ someone who lied to me - I'm a 'one lie and you're out' kind of guy. Why the fuck should we accept repeated lies from those we employ to run the country?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UHvwWWcjYw
Why would this be any different?
If it’s certain Sunak or Truss lose the election, Boris will win it, does that change your principled stand at all?
https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1484319999443423239?s=20
https://www.ft.com/content/a45e028d-4b81-4bef-9546-970838ab963a
By denying it he just shreds his credibility when the truth inevitably comes out and makes the revelations hit so much harder. Totally counter-productive comms strategy.
The parties were really bad, given 90% of the public stuck to very strict lockdown rules in early 2020 and will therefore be really stung to hear Downing St were ignoring them. But that's no reason to make the situation even worse for himself!
And it's not like this wasn't predictable. He's been in politics for decades, he's seen dozens of scandals play out. The idea he could conceal his involvement indefinitely once the parties began leaking was always deeply unlikely.
When facing a series of hooks, there is merit in considering them together.
That would, however, have required a degree of forward thinking and anticipation for which he isn’t noted. And perhaps the really difficult bit would have been foregoing the optimal response for the immediately pressing hook?