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It’s a long time since a LAB leader was dominating the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited January 2022 in General
imageIt’s a long time since a LAB leader was dominating the Tories – politicalbetting.com

Who would have thought only a couple of months ago that LAB would by mid-January be totally dominating CON in the House of Commons and have double digit voting intention leads?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • First like Starmer.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    SKS looking good, and swaggering self satisfaction never did Tone any harm
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Super confident is a great description for how Starmer was today. Diehard tories may call it smug but every successful leader I've ever seen in the House of Commons has had it.
  • Never doubt the brilliance of a lawyer, they are fantastic.

    You don't get to become DPP without having some stardust about you.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited January 2022
    28 blue bottles sitting on a wall.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Should we start offering our condolences to BJO and The Jezziah?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Evening all :)

    The long-delayed mid term has hit the Conservative Government hard and fast helped by some spectacular self-inflicted wounds.

    It's clear Johnson expects the payroll vote to back him in any VONC which makes it really difficult for the challengers to get their victory. The problem is the perception of division will remain whatever the outcome as Theresa May discovered.

    We've also had a defection from Conservative to Labour which would have been unthinkable not so long ago when the talk was of Labour MPs moving over to the Tories. Those in the ditch with the Prime Minister are understandably prickly and defensive but if what has been said about the new intake of Conservative MPs is true, it's spectacularly naive. Gratitude is a scarce commodity in politics and imagining the Red Wall MPs as some kind of praetorian guard to Boris Maximus was clearly delusional.

    To take it a notch further, I sense some of the Red Wall MPs are seeking to re-define modern conservatism and conservative thinking and that may not sit well with some of the traditionalists.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited January 2022

    Never doubt the brilliance of a lawyer, they are fantastic.

    You don't get to become DPP without having some stardust about you.

    Those who can, prosecute. Those who can't, direct. Never seen anyone betray the most basic principles of their profession like this guy raising his profile giving pointless pressers about dear old Creases
  • FPT - Riffing off of ydoethur's comment re: Tonga:

    Based on experience of Mt St Helens eruption/explosion, am more hopeful loss of life will be than you fear.

    Appears most in Tonga got tsunami warning, which of course was not an issue with MSH. Nor did Tongans have to deal with mud & debris flows down rivers. In both cases plenty of rocks & esp. ash raining down. Highly survivable provided not too heavy in your locality AND you could find shelter.

    Huge problem in both cases: dealing with and cleaning out inches-to-feet of ash deposited, which in Tonga's case has reportedly taken out most if not all potable water infrastructure.

    PLUS the Tongans now face risk of COVID, in country that IIRC has had just ONE reported case.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    I find Starmer dull and boring to be honest but there's no doubt he's having a good run thanks to Partygate
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Never doubt the brilliance of a lawyer, they are fantastic.

    You don't get to become DPP without having some stardust about you.

    Or a supporter of the party in power at the time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    FPT - Riffing off of ydoethur's comment re: Tonga:

    Based on experience of Mt St Helens eruption/explosion, am more hopeful loss of life will be than you fear.

    Appears most in Tonga got tsunami warning, which of course was not an issue with MSH. Nor did Tongans have to deal with mud & debris flows down rivers. In both cases plenty of rocks & esp. ash raining down. Highly survivable provided not too heavy in your locality AND you could find shelter.

    Huge problem in both cases: dealing with and cleaning out inches-to-feet of ash deposited, which in Tonga's case has reportedly taken out most if not all potable water infrastructure.

    PLUS the Tongans now face risk of COVID, in country that IIRC has had just ONE reported case.

    I very much hope you are right. But even if loss of life is comparatively low, it's still a tough situation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    GIN1138 said:

    I find Starmer dull and boring to be honest but there's no doubt he's having a good run thanks to Partygate

    There's something deliciously ironic about a dull and boring person getting a boost from a series of parties.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    edited January 2022
    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    England Covid cases are rising by more than expected from day to day....

    I think the graph is unfortunately going to turn red again.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited January 2022

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    You know Hitler hated the Freemasons :lol:
  • Just for a bit of fun:

    image
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting) but since Freemasonry as you or I would understand it didn't exist until 1717 with the foundation of the Grand Lodge of London I think it rather unlikely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited January 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
  • ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting) but since Freemasonry as you or I would understand it didn't exist until 1717 with the foundation of the Grand Lodge of London I think it rather unlikely.
    Just googled this, haven't read it, but looks like it could be legit

    https://www.strandlines.london/2021/08/12/temple-church-magna-carta-and-the-knights-templar/
  • ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I find Starmer dull and boring to be honest but there's no doubt he's having a good run thanks to Partygate

    There's something deliciously ironic about a dull and boring person getting a boost from a series of parties.
    Unpoetic justice?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    ydoethur said:

    FPT - Riffing off of ydoethur's comment re: Tonga:

    Based on experience of Mt St Helens eruption/explosion, am more hopeful loss of life will be than you fear.

    Appears most in Tonga got tsunami warning, which of course was not an issue with MSH. Nor did Tongans have to deal with mud & debris flows down rivers. In both cases plenty of rocks & esp. ash raining down. Highly survivable provided not too heavy in your locality AND you could find shelter.

    Huge problem in both cases: dealing with and cleaning out inches-to-feet of ash deposited, which in Tonga's case has reportedly taken out most if not all potable water infrastructure.

    PLUS the Tongans now face risk of COVID, in country that IIRC has had just ONE reported case.

    I very much hope you are right. But even if loss of life is comparatively low, it's still a tough situation.
    On the subject of Tonga, has anybody read about rugby games etc to raise money for the Tongans in their hour of need? If World Rugby isn't arranging these by the stadiumful we should all want to know why.

    If you know anything about rugby at all you will know the massive contribution this fantastic little nation has made to the game, far in excess of its size. Some of the world's best players hail from Tonga or like Wales' Faletau, have Tongan connections. Lomu's parents were Tongans FFS.

    Club sides all around the world have employed them, some nations have co-opted their players to help achieve success, and now its payback time.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Pulpstar said:

    England Covid cases are rising by more than expected from day to day....

    I think the graph is unfortunately going to turn red again.

    Ventilated patients at lowest numbers since a July, and that after millions of omicron cases. That’s the numbers that count.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Pulpstar said:

    England Covid cases are rising by more than expected from day to day....

    I think the graph is unfortunately going to turn red again.

    Ventilated patients at lowest numbers since a July, and that after millions of omicron cases. That’s the numbers that count.
    Indeed, ICU numbers are now down to July levels.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
    The only decent sex maniac among the whole lot of the Stuarts was Charles II.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    So, Boris escapes.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Poor Anas Sarwar.

    Tory MPs defecting to Labour might look good daan saaf, but the optics are dreadful north of the border.
  • Is Boris safe now? No vonc. No wallpapergate inquiry from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. Sue Gray likely to smear the partygate blame around. Still, there's always tomorrow.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,150
    IshmaelZ said:

    Never doubt the brilliance of a lawyer, they are fantastic.

    You don't get to become DPP without having some stardust about you.

    Those who can, prosecute. Those who can't, direct. Never seen anyone betray the most basic principles of their profession like this guy raising his profile giving pointless pressers about dear old Creases
    And where do you put the hapless lawyer who defended Stefan Kiszko?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited January 2022
    Perhaps all international aid delivery should be left* to the Kiwis to protect the Tongans from the plague.

    *Edit = channeled through, not just the Kiwis to help

    FPT - Riffing off of ydoethur's comment re: Tonga:

    Based on experience of Mt St Helens eruption/explosion, am more hopeful loss of life will be than you fear.

    Appears most in Tonga got tsunami warning, which of course was not an issue with MSH. Nor did Tongans have to deal with mud & debris flows down rivers. In both cases plenty of rocks & esp. ash raining down. Highly survivable provided not too heavy in your locality AND you could find shelter.

    Huge problem in both cases: dealing with and cleaning out inches-to-feet of ash deposited, which in Tonga's case has reportedly taken out most if not all potable water infrastructure.

    PLUS the Tongans now face risk of COVID, in country that IIRC has had just ONE reported case.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Never doubt the brilliance of a lawyer, they are fantastic.

    You don't get to become DPP without having some stardust about you.

    Those who can, prosecute. Those who can't, direct. Never seen anyone betray the most basic principles of their profession like this guy raising his profile giving pointless pressers about dear old Creases
    And where do you put the hapless lawyer who defended Stefan Kiszko?
    The Home Office.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022

    Is Boris safe now? No vonc. No wallpapergate inquiry from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. Sue Gray likely to smear the partygate blame around. Still, there's always tomorrow.

    There's always Dom and his friend Norman, as discussed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Pulpstar said:

    England Covid cases are rising by more than expected from day to day....

    I think the graph is unfortunately going to turn red again.

    Ventilated patients at lowest numbers since a July, and that after millions of omicron cases. That’s the numbers that
    count.
    On cases....

    image
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Love the latest London poll.

    Lab 55% (+4)
    Con 23% (-10)
    LD 9% (+2)
    Grn 7% (nc)

    (YouGov; 13-17 January; sample size=1,166)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    edited January 2022
    Was showing my eldest the 1990s Tory leader election on YouTube. Michael Howard was on the results programme as a pundit. My youngest comes in and asks if that is Stephen Hawking. 😬 I give up.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    edited January 2022
    Starmer has had a better few months than he could possibly have dreamed was possible. And yet, he's still got a lot of work to do over the next months and years to come up with a programme for government that can do something to address the UK's most serious problems, both real and perceived, build a team of ministers, sell both to the British public and pin the blame (for the country's ills) so indelibly onto this Tory government that it will be found engraved on their bones.

    But, y'know, he's made a good start.
  • ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I find Starmer dull and boring to be honest but there's no doubt he's having a good run thanks to Partygate

    There's something deliciously ironic about a dull and boring person getting a boost from a series of parties.
    Unpoetic justice?
    Impoetic?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Jonathan said:

    Was showing my eldest the Tory leader election on YouTube. Michael Howard was on the results programme as a pundit. My youngest comes in and asks if that is Stephen Hawking. 😬 I give up.

    Howard favoured a different sort of electric chair.*


    *until 1994 when he changed his mind and came up with 'prison works.'
  • Is Boris safe now? No vonc. No wallpapergate inquiry from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. Sue Gray likely to smear the partygate blame around. Still, there's always tomorrow.

    I thought that if Boris got past PMQs without literally having to flee the chamber in tears the he would survive. For too many of his MPs, even Boris with only a quarter of his magic left is a better prospect than any of the likely successors.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Scott_xP said:
    There is of course, an elegant solution.

    Those in the Tory party who believe in uncontrolled borrowing, paying people to sit at home and do nothing, capping energy costs and making ridiculous promises they have no hope of keeping on transport should join Labour.

    Starting with Boris Johnson.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Scott_xP said:
    We always get these stories after a defection. I think the only time that we have ever had another defection following on was when Reckless followed Carswell's lead.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
    The only decent sex maniac among the whole lot of the Stuarts was Charles II.
    His Scottish genes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
    The only decent sex maniac among the whole lot of the Stuarts was Charles II.
    His Scottish genes.
    Didn't seem to work for his father and to a rather lesser extent his grandfather or brother.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022

    Scott_xP said:
    We always get these stories after a defection. I think the only time that we have ever had another defection following on was when Reckless followed Carswell's lead.
    On the other hand, there's something about the pattern of events recently..

    But nevertheless, that rule is probably right in this case.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Super confident is a great description for how Starmer was today. Diehard tories may call it smug but every successful leader I've ever seen in the House of Commons has had it.

    I've a feeling he's had some professional training recently. Even the most basic presenters get tutored so it would be unlikely if Starmer isn't getting it.

    His performance today looked quite different from previous ones. His pauses his lightness of touch knowing when to smile. I can only see him getting better as he gets more practiced. He's also made a decision to clear out the Corbynites and it's working. They're not missed and they look a much broader church without them.
    Burgon was on the radio earlier saying something twattish and incoherent on face masks. Not sure what as I tend to tune out the boring bits while driving.
  • Jonathan said:

    Was showing my eldest the 1990s Tory leader election on YouTube. Michael Howard was on the results programme as a pundit. My youngest comes in and asks if that is Stephen Hawking. 😬 I give up.

    MANY years ago, greatly amused by grandfather, by confusing Huguenots with Hottentots (as then called).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Was showing my eldest the Tory leader election on YouTube. Michael Howard was on the results programme as a pundit. My youngest comes in and asks if that is Stephen Hawking. 😬 I give up.

    Howard favoured a different sort of electric chair.*


    *until 1994 when he changed his mind and came up with 'prison works.'
    You sure? Hanging is so much more British, vide Pierrepoint A., complete with pub called "Help the Poor Struggler" to run in the quiet bits in between.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting) but since Freemasonry as you or I would understand it didn't exist until 1717 with the foundation of the Grand Lodge of London I think it rather unlikely.
    Just googled this, haven't read it, but looks like it could be legit

    https://www.strandlines.london/2021/08/12/temple-church-magna-carta-and-the-knights-templar/
    Thank you 🙏🏻 Ive just read through that and it only confirms in my mind how these things are perhaps connected up in ways you don’t find in history books.

    I looked up the authors poetry too, but it’s locked down apart from the opening bits, which is a shame as it was instantly engaging

    I guess I can copy paste the bit she left open?

    Where’s Richard Burton when you need him, I read it with his voice in my head 🙂

    Diving into the Wreck

    You can’t translate its planks
    or say
    exactly what its split mast means.
    Only, say only its rigging’s green,
    its deck a carpet squirming weeds,
    lisp grasses, fish unseen.
    There too,
    a whisper buffeted,
    a coffer buried,
    embroiled in sand and ancient
    tynne – spoils scattered on soft
    rock surfaces. It’s true, too, this ship
    was Flanders-bound, and held old
    stores of muscadel and metheglin.

    But any further, and the further
    we go in, its shape recedes,
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
    The only decent sex maniac among the whole lot of the Stuarts was Charles II.
    His Scottish genes.
    Didn't seem to work for his father and to a rather lesser extent his grandfather or brother.
    Sometimes genes skip.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
    The only decent sex maniac among the whole lot of the Stuarts was Charles II.
    His Scottish genes.
    Didn't seem to work for his father and to a rather lesser extent his grandfather or brother.
    Or his Great Grandmother
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Although its been a long time since it aired, when Spitting Image did the song 'Go now' for Margaret Thatcher to leave Number 10, one of the few puppets who wanted her to stay was Neil Kinnock.

    And so is the case here. SKS is much more likely to win in 2024 (possibly outright) with Johnson as his opponent than facing another fresh face.

    Has he played a blinder today with the defection? I don't know. But if it makes Johnson safer, then surely that's better for Labour.

    Labour really don't want to lose in 2024. To do so would see them out of power until likely 2029, which is the longest they've ever been out of power post war.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    What if Gray doesn't want to be seen as a patsy ?

    ( I accept this may not be her priority )

    Perhaps Cyclefree could add a word from experience on how one might balance expectations in a situation like this.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited January 2022
    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Super confident is a great description for how Starmer was today. Diehard tories may call it smug but every successful leader I've ever seen in the House of Commons has had it.

    I've a feeling he's had some professional training recently. Even the most basic presenters get tutored so it would be unlikely if Starmer isn't getting it.

    His performance today looked quite different from previous ones. His pauses his lightness of touch knowing when to smile. I can only see him getting better as he gets more practiced. He's also made a decision to clear out the Corbynites and it's working. They're not missed and they look a much broader church without them.
    Yep. And it's been a while since anybody has, successfully, levelled a charge of anti-semitism against the Labour Party. Starmer has lanced that pestilent boil speedily, ruthlessly and effectively.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Was showing my eldest the Tory leader election on YouTube. Michael Howard was on the results programme as a pundit. My youngest comes in and asks if that is Stephen Hawking. 😬 I give up.

    Howard favoured a different sort of electric chair.*


    *until 1994 when he changed his mind and came up with 'prison works.'
    You sure? Hanging is so much more British, vide Pierrepoint A., complete with pub called "Help the Poor Struggler" to run in the quiet bits in between.
    Well, yes, of course he did, but that doesn't work with the pun. Stephen Hawking wasn't hanged, but he did have an electric chair.

    Right wing politician favoured hanging is of course not exactly noose.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Why exactly is Mr Sarwar unhappy? But why aren't they going to the LDs anyway?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    There is of course, an elegant solution.

    Those in the Tory party who believe in uncontrolled borrowing, paying people to sit at home and do nothing, capping energy costs and making ridiculous promises they have no hope of keeping on transport should join Labour.

    Starting with Boris Johnson.
    We're all social democrats now!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Oh Leicester, what have you done?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Scott_xP said:
    That would be fucking hilarious if it happened.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Although its been a long time since it aired, when Spitting Image did the song 'Go now' for Margaret Thatcher to leave Number 10, one of the few puppets who wanted her to stay was Neil Kinnock.

    And so is the case here. SKS is much more likely to win in 2024 (possibly outright) with Johnson as his opponent than facing another fresh face.

    Has he played a blinder today with the defection? I don't know. But if it makes Johnson safer, then surely that's better for Labour.

    Labour really don't want to lose in 2024. To do so would see them out of power until likely 2029, which is the longest they've ever been out of power post war.

    Longest they've been out of power since they first got it in 1924, indeed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    There is of course, an elegant solution.

    Those in the Tory party who believe in uncontrolled borrowing, paying people to sit at home and do nothing, capping energy costs and making ridiculous promises they have no hope of keeping on transport should join Labour.

    Starting with Boris Johnson.
    We're all social democrats now!
    Speak for yourself, recent events are turning me into a raging Trot.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited January 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Was showing my eldest the Tory leader election on YouTube. Michael Howard was on the results programme as a pundit. My youngest comes in and asks if that is Stephen Hawking. 😬 I give up.

    Howard favoured a different sort of electric chair.*


    *until 1994 when he changed his mind and came up with 'prison works.'
    You sure? Hanging is so much more British, vide Pierrepoint A., complete with pub called "Help the Poor Struggler" to run in the quiet bits in between.
    Well, yes, of course he did, but that doesn't work with the pun. Stephen Hawking wasn't hanged, but he did have an electric chair.

    Right wing politician favoured hanging is of course not exactly noose.
    I was so intrigued at the thought of a Tory wanting to modernise a great British institution like the pinioned victim hustled to the scaffold that I just had to be sure.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Is Boris safe now? No vonc. No wallpapergate inquiry from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. Sue Gray likely to smear the partygate blame around. Still, there's always tomorrow.

    I thought that if Boris got past PMQs without literally having to flee the chamber in tears the he would survive. For too many of his MPs, even Boris with only a quarter of his magic left is a better prospect than any of the likely successors.
    Nah. There'll be some voters out there who'll always fall for Johnson's schtick, but for all too many the "magic" has worn off. When the Tory party reconciles itself to this, they'll get rid of him. It's just a matter of time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    David Davis - I'm now the second most unpopular person in the conservative party.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    On header. the fact that things have changed so quickly tells you they can change back very quickly as well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Was showing my eldest the Tory leader election on YouTube. Michael Howard was on the results programme as a pundit. My youngest comes in and asks if that is Stephen Hawking. 😬 I give up.

    Howard favoured a different sort of electric chair.*


    *until 1994 when he changed his mind and came up with 'prison works.'
    You sure? Hanging is so much more British, vide Pierrepoint A., complete with pub called "Help the Poor Struggler" to run in the quiet bits in between.
    Well, yes, of course he did, but that doesn't work with the pun. Stephen Hawking wasn't hanged, but he did have an electric chair.

    Right wing politician favoured hanging is of course not exactly noose.
    I was so intrigued at the thought of a Tory wanting to modernise a great British institution like the pinioned victim hustled to the scaffold that I just had to be sure.
    Howard was an odd character, but he did at least have sufficient integrity to openly change his mind. And he was certainly able and energetic.

    We could do with him right now. After all, he sacked Johnson once for lying...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    Why exactly is Mr Sarwar unhappy? But why aren't they going to the LDs anyway?
    Tories defecting to Labour reminds voters how close the two parties are. Eg the Better Together fiasco.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,150
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
    The only decent sex maniac among the whole lot of the Stuarts was Charles II.
    His Scottish genes.
    Didn't seem to work for his father and to a rather lesser extent his grandfather or brother.
    I thought his brother also had mistresses. But he felt so guilty, he made sure they were all unattractive.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    Scott_xP said:
    That would be fucking hilarious if it happened.
    Owen Jones would self-combust for starters.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    Why exactly is Mr Sarwar unhappy? But why aren't they going to the LDs anyway?
    Tories defecting to Labour reminds voters how close the two parties are. Eg the Better Together fiasco.
    Yep, thought that was what you meant but good to know, thanks. Sort of half fat, skimmed milk low tar Tories.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
    The only decent sex maniac among the whole lot of the Stuarts was Charles II.
    His Scottish genes.
    Didn't seem to work for his father and to a rather lesser extent his grandfather or brother.
    I thought his brother also had mistresses. But he felt so guilty, he made sure they were all unattractive.
    Like I said, the only *decent* sex maniac was Charles II.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Scott_xP said:
    That would be fucking hilarious if it happened.
    Entirely possible. Many of them have got used to living on a MP's salary.

    The issue for Labour, though, would be if a new Tory leader came in and then the ratings started to recover. Not hard to imagine those MPs deciding to shift back.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Is Boris safe now? No vonc. No wallpapergate inquiry from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. Sue Gray likely to smear the partygate blame around. Still, there's always tomorrow.

    There's always Dom and his friend Norman, as discussed.
    Comes to something if we are all asking: is that all you got Norman? Norman, where are you?

    Call yourself an Assassin? Your not even a patch on Norman Bates! The target is still standing.

    Norman is going to need something other than more flipping parties?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,150

    Jonathan said:

    Was showing my eldest the 1990s Tory leader election on YouTube. Michael Howard was on the results programme as a pundit. My youngest comes in and asks if that is Stephen Hawking. 😬 I give up.

    MANY years ago, greatly amused by grandfather, by confusing Huguenots with Hottentots (as then called).
    When I was studying A-Level history, my brain assumed that the right pronunciation was:

    hugh-gen-aughts

    Sort of like 'astronauts'.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited January 2022
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
    The only decent sex maniac among the whole lot of the Stuarts was Charles II.
    His Scottish genes.
    Didn't seem to work for his father and to a rather lesser extent his grandfather or brother.
    I thought his brother also had mistresses. But he felt so guilty, he made sure they were all unattractive.
    Like I said, the only *decent* sex maniac was Charles II.
    Do you mean, out of only the ones in Whitehall? There were plenty in Scotland before them. And of course in France and Italy after, but I've never been interested in the Malignants enough to sniff their sheets so to speak. Though Chas II and Jas VII/II had some interesting nautical interests and Chas II in science.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited January 2022
    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That would be fucking hilarious if it happened.
    Entirely possible. Many of them have got used to living on a MP's salary.

    The issue for Labour, though, would be if a new Tory leader came in and then the ratings started to recover. Not hard to imagine those MPs deciding to shift back.
    Has anyone ever crossed the floor twice (as in, crossed and crossed back) in a single Parliament? Did one of the CUKs do it?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    There is of course, an elegant solution.

    Those in the Tory party who believe in uncontrolled borrowing, paying people to sit at home and do nothing, capping energy costs and making ridiculous promises they have no hope of keeping on transport should join Labour.

    Starting with Boris Johnson.
    We're all social democrats now!
    I used to be centre-right. I even voted for Cameron! Thanks to the current "Conservative" party I am definitely centre-left.

    The only question is did I move leftward, or did I stay still whilst the political landscape slid to the right?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Was showing my eldest the Tory leader election on YouTube. Michael Howard was on the results programme as a pundit. My youngest comes in and asks if that is Stephen Hawking. 😬 I give up.

    Howard favoured a different sort of electric chair.*


    *until 1994 when he changed his mind and came up with 'prison works.'
    You sure? Hanging is so much more British, vide Pierrepoint A., complete with pub called "Help the Poor Struggler" to run in the quiet bits in between.
    Well, yes, of course he did, but that doesn't work with the pun. Stephen Hawking wasn't hanged, but he did have an electric chair.

    Right wing politician favoured hanging is of course not exactly noose.
    I was so intrigued at the thought of a Tory wanting to modernise a great British institution like the pinioned victim hustled to the scaffold that I just had to be sure.
    Howard was an odd character, but he did at least have sufficient integrity to openly change his mind. And he was certainly able and energetic.

    We could do with him right now. After all, he sacked Johnson once for lying...
    That's what worries me. Positively nostalgic for Mrs T, and even what you say about that creature of the night ...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, January is a rubbish month. Always makes me feel low and this year is no exception.

    Have far too much work but getting the energy to do it is proving a bit difficult. So off to bed and to give myself a good talking to. Then will just make myself bloody do it.

    Take care all.

    Positive thoughts, Cyclefree! 👍🏻
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022

    Is Boris safe now? No vonc. No wallpapergate inquiry from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. Sue Gray likely to smear the partygate blame around. Still, there's always tomorrow.

    There's always Dom and his friend Norman, as discussed.
    Comes to something if we are all asking: is that all you got Norman? Norman, where are you?

    Call yourself an Assassin? Your not even a patch on Norman Bates! The target is still standing.

    Norman is going to need something other than more flipping parties?
    There's the 60 hours of video from the Downing Street Press Room, too, apparently, don't forget.

    That should be fun..er, interesting and socially useful, if anyone's actually got it and it really exists.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    MISTY said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT - Riffing off of ydoethur's comment re: Tonga:

    Based on experience of Mt St Helens eruption/explosion, am more hopeful loss of life will be than you fear.

    Appears most in Tonga got tsunami warning, which of course was not an issue with MSH. Nor did Tongans have to deal with mud & debris flows down rivers. In both cases plenty of rocks & esp. ash raining down. Highly survivable provided not too heavy in your locality AND you could find shelter.

    Huge problem in both cases: dealing with and cleaning out inches-to-feet of ash deposited, which in Tonga's case has reportedly taken out most if not all potable water infrastructure.

    PLUS the Tongans now face risk of COVID, in country that IIRC has had just ONE reported case.

    I very much hope you are right. But even if loss of life is comparatively low, it's still a tough situation.
    On the subject of Tonga, has anybody read about rugby games etc to raise money for the Tongans in their hour of need? If World Rugby isn't arranging these by the stadiumful we should all want to know why.

    If you know anything about rugby at all you will know the massive contribution this fantastic little nation has made to the game, far in excess of its size. Some of the world's best players hail from Tonga or like Wales' Faletau, have Tongan connections. Lomu's parents were Tongans FFS.

    Club sides all around the world have employed them, some nations have co-opted their players to help achieve success, and now its payback time.
    The diaspora also make Tonga possibly the second best Rugby League side in the world. The NRL is jam packed with Tongan superstars.
    A Tonga v NZ or Oz League and Union double header would sell out and generate huge broadcast fees.
    Unfortunately, politics will intervene no doubt.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That would be fucking hilarious if it happened.
    Entirely possible. Many of them have got used to living on a MP's salary.

    The issue for Labour, though, would be if a new Tory leader came in and then the ratings started to recover. Not hard to imagine those MPs deciding to shift back.
    Has anyone ever crossed the floor twice (as in, crossed and crossed back) in a single Parliament? Did one of the CUKs do it?
    Not sure actually. Also, this is from Canada, would be interesting to see if applies here:

    https://policyoptions.irpp.org/fr/magazines/september-2018/research-shows-that-mps-who-cross-the-floor-lose-votes/
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Quite the match at Filbert Street or whatever it’s called nowadays!
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That would be fucking hilarious if it happened.
    Entirely possible. Many of them have got used to living on a MP's salary.

    The issue for Labour, though, would be if a new Tory leader came in and then the ratings started to recover. Not hard to imagine those MPs deciding to shift back.
    Has anyone ever crossed the floor twice (as in, crossed and crossed back) in a single Parliament? Did one of the CUKs do it?
    Paul Marsden (MP for Shrewsbury and Atcham) left Labour for the LDs in 2001 but returned in 2005 prior to not restanding.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    She's finally getting the hang of it...


    Rachael Swindon
    @Rachael_Swindon
    ·
    5h
    Keir Starmer’s Labour Party.

    A home for Tony Blair and a Tory MP.

    But not a home for Jeremy Corbyn and Ken Loach.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    I hope that Philip Davies isn't about to cross the floor.

    I don't think I could cope with having to vote for him at the next election!
  • Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Are you strong on the civil war period of History Dr Y?
    Was Cromwell a Freemason?
    Part 2.

    I havn’t much to go on. But my brother is obsessed with Templars. He says Cromwell was a Freemason 🤷‍♀️

    It’s to do with those who love magnacarta. The night King John signed it he stayed with knight Templar. And at that time they wrote all the laws?

    image

    I know very little about the Civil War era (it's never been something I found interesting)
    Where's a damn dislike button when you need one? :(
    The only decent sex maniac among the whole lot of the Stuarts was Charles II.
    His Scottish genes.
    Didn't seem to work for his father and to a rather lesser extent his grandfather or brother.
    I thought his brother also had mistresses. But he felt so guilty, he made sure they were all unattractive.
    Like I said, the only *decent* sex maniac was Charles II.
    Do you mean, out of only the ones in Whitehall? There were plenty in Scotland before them. And of course in France and Italy after, but I've never been interested in the Malignants enough to sniff their sheets so to speak. Though Chas II and Jas VII/II had some interesting nautical interests and Chas II in science.
    Jamie Saxt liked a well turned out male leg. His strictures against sodomy are somewhat reminiscent of Southern US tv evangelists who recommend dancing away the gay..
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    edited January 2022
    What a match, sorry @Foxy.
  • What if Gray doesn't want to be seen as a patsy ?

    ( I accept this may not be her priority )

    Perhaps Cyclefree could add a word from experience on how one might balance expectations in a situation like this.

    Without being unduly cynical, and playing it straight, there were lots of civil servants and lots of parties so Gray will not say Boris broke the rules and must resign, she will say a hundred and twenty-three civil servants and Boris broke the rules; probably with added fudge about unhealthy drinking cultures.

    And in one bound, Boris will be free even if on page 23, paragraph 104, sub-paragraph c, it is proved that Boris did see the BYOB email so is 90 per cent certain to have realised this was not a Cobra meeting, few will notice and no-one will care. Because that is how all these inquiries work out.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Quite the match at Filbert Street or whatever it’s called nowadays!

    They wanted to call it The Walkers Bowl. But everyone either laughed or complained.
  • JohnO said:

    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That would be fucking hilarious if it happened.
    Entirely possible. Many of them have got used to living on a MP's salary.

    The issue for Labour, though, would be if a new Tory leader came in and then the ratings started to recover. Not hard to imagine those MPs deciding to shift back.
    Has anyone ever crossed the floor twice (as in, crossed and crossed back) in a single Parliament? Did one of the CUKs do it?
    Paul Marsden (MP for Shrewsbury and Atcham) left Labour for the LDs in 2001 but returned in 2005 prior to not restanding.
    Yes, he returned replete with stories about Charles Kennedy's drinking as I recall.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    edited January 2022
    From lockdown ultra fanatic to 'get on with our lives'. Incredible. Devi Sridhar.


    James Melville
    @JamesMelville
    As far as U-turns go, this one is quite spectacular.

    https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1483894115976761349
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    edited January 2022

    Is Boris safe now? No vonc. No wallpapergate inquiry from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. Sue Gray likely to smear the partygate blame around. Still, there's always tomorrow.

    There's always Dom and his friend Norman, as discussed.
    Comes to something if we are all asking: is that all you got Norman? Norman, where are you?

    Call yourself an Assassin? Your not even a patch on Norman Bates! The target is still standing.

    Norman is going to need something other than more flipping parties?
    There's the 60 hours of video from the Downing Street Press Room, too, apparently, don't forget.

    That should be fun..er, interesting and socially useful, if anyone's actually got it and it really exists.

    But you kind of feel you’ve already seen the key 25 seconds of that 60 hours.

    “ No wallpapergate inquiry from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. “

    No. He got away with that too.

    Before Big G re convinced us parties would bring Boris down, I did feel Parliamentary Standards Commissioner investigating wallpaper for access effectively cash for government spending on donors pet projects would be more dangerous. If she said you’ve done wrong she can then suspend from commons, in other words resigning matter.

    The fact Boris can’t be investigated for that independently like an MP because he is a minister, therefore appoints his own man to investigate just doesn’t feel fair or effective at tackling corruption, does it?

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    There is of course, an elegant solution.

    Those in the Tory party who believe in uncontrolled borrowing, paying people to sit at home and do nothing, capping energy costs and making ridiculous promises they have no hope of keeping on transport should join Labour.

    Starting with Boris Johnson.
    We're all social democrats now!
    I used to be centre-right. I even voted for Cameron! Thanks to the current "Conservative" party I am definitely centre-left.

    The only question is did I move leftward, or did I stay still whilst the political landscape slid to the right?
    The centre-right in Sweden would be considered centre-left in many other countries, including England.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited January 2022
    Macron offers Russia a “EU security pact”.

    JFC.

    Brexit can only truly be unwound once both Boris *and* Macron have left the scene.
  • dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT - Riffing off of ydoethur's comment re: Tonga:

    Based on experience of Mt St Helens eruption/explosion, am more hopeful loss of life will be than you fear.

    Appears most in Tonga got tsunami warning, which of course was not an issue with MSH. Nor did Tongans have to deal with mud & debris flows down rivers. In both cases plenty of rocks & esp. ash raining down. Highly survivable provided not too heavy in your locality AND you could find shelter.

    Huge problem in both cases: dealing with and cleaning out inches-to-feet of ash deposited, which in Tonga's case has reportedly taken out most if not all potable water infrastructure.

    PLUS the Tongans now face risk of COVID, in country that IIRC has had just ONE reported case.

    I very much hope you are right. But even if loss of life is comparatively low, it's still a tough situation.
    On the subject of Tonga, has anybody read about rugby games etc to raise money for the Tongans in their hour of need? If World Rugby isn't arranging these by the stadiumful we should all want to know why.

    If you know anything about rugby at all you will know the massive contribution this fantastic little nation has made to the game, far in excess of its size. Some of the world's best players hail from Tonga or like Wales' Faletau, have Tongan connections. Lomu's parents were Tongans FFS.

    Club sides all around the world have employed them, some nations have co-opted their players to help achieve success, and now its payback time.
    The diaspora also make Tonga possibly the second best Rugby League side in the world. The NRL is jam packed with Tongan superstars.
    A Tonga v NZ or Oz League and Union double header would sell out and generate huge broadcast fees.
    Unfortunately, politics will intervene no doubt.
    Also a small but significant presence in US, including dozens of Tongan & Tongan American players in NFL.

    Would be fantastic IF a team or better yet the league donated share of HUGE profits from ongoing NFL playoffs to Tongan disaster relief.
This discussion has been closed.