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Johnson gets his worst English approval ratings in the Midlands – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited January 2022 in General
imageJohnson gets his worst English approval ratings in the Midlands – politicalbetting.com

The above chart is a regional breakdown of the Opinium approval ratings that came out in the poll Saturday night. This had a stark decline of 42% in the PM’s ratings with London at one end showing the best for the PM but with Scotland, the North and the Midlands showing big negatives.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    Worth pointing out that the North isn't much better.

    The Red Wall seats know they've been lied to and it's hard to see how the Tories will retain those seats in 2023 /24.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610
    Epping Forest Massive approval keeping the London ratings up...
  • Options
    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Amazon has successfully negotiated a new deal with Visa.

    Wait 6 months and I suspect we will see a similar game with Mastercard as Amazon tries to knock another 0.001% off the fees charged.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Which is a shock to no one. All designed to get a better deal off visa
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    "There are big, big issues of trust and integrity at stake now".

    Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon calls on the PM to "resign" over the Downing St parties, adding that he has "not been honest and truthful".

    https://news.sky.com/

    📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1483023954377953282/video/1

    BoZo clings on and opposition politicians call him a liar in every TV interview until he does go
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105
    Foxy said:

    Epping Forest Massive approval keeping the London ratings up...

    The London numbers are the big surprise, especially when you compare to Scotland - North and South Remainia giving very different results. Scots have always had Johnson's number of course (remember how he was savaged by Eddie Mair and was too frit to go on Andrew Neil's programme). Perhaps cynical Londoners aren't especially shocked or disgusted by the suitcases of booze etc. It may be an age cohort effect too. Anyway, if he's lost the Midlands he's screwed. That's where elections are won or lost.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1483020276858302470

    James Forsyth
    @JGForsyth
    Split opening up between those Tory MPs who have local elections in their patch in May, who tend to favour moving sooner, and those who don’t, who are more inclined to wait and see how those contests go
  • Options

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Which is a shock to no one. All designed to get a better deal off visa
    Indeed although I cannot help wondering if a small part was played by people like me who did not register any alternative means of payment. How many people would take out a new credit card just for the benefit of one shop?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    James Forsyth
    @JGForsyth
    ·
    18m
    Split opening up between those Tory MPs who have local elections in their patch in May, who tend to favour moving sooner, and those who don’t, who are more inclined to wait and see how those contests go
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    "There are big, big issues of trust and integrity at stake now".

    Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon calls on the PM to "resign" over the Downing St parties, adding that he has "not been honest and truthful".

    https://news.sky.com/

    📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1483023954377953282/video/1

    BoZo clings on and opposition politicians call him a liar in every TV interview until he does go

    Feels odd to be agreeing with Sturgeon on anything, and we can agree that Johnson should resign, but it is a bit rich coming from the woman that misled parliament and said nothing about Salmond at the time even though she later described him as "a sex pest". A description that he so far seems unwilling to sue her for.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    How on earth is Johnson only at -13 in London?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    alex_ said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    If they want to replace the licence fee an alternative that's well-considered must be ready to go.

    Cackhanded short-termist tinkering tomfoolery is what gave us devolved bodies everywhere except England. Lack of planning also meant leaving the EU was handled very poorly indeed.

    Just not liking the licence fee is not sufficient because there has to be something.

    Of course Dorries hasn’t the intelligence for that sort of thing, so she’s just announced that it will go and told the BBC to work out how they are going to be funded in future. Obviously anything they come up with won’t satisfy the Govt one way or another (either because it transfers costs to general taxation, focuses on areas the govt doesn’t support, proposed things which will give it greater independence (and therefore freedom from Govt interference), is unpopular with real Tory core supporters (as opposed to activists), at which point...

    The Government doesn't dictate how Netflix, or Disney+, or Amazon make their money (and they're all commercial free too which used to be the BBCs USP). Why should it instruct a competitor like the BBC to do so.

    Liberated from state influence the Beeb should raise it's revenue however it chooses to do so. It shouldn't have anything to do with politicians and there should be no political interference.
    The BBC is an accident of history, but it is a lucky accident. All governments think that the BBC is against them - and that is mostly a good thing.
    The BBC, like all organisations, makes mistakes but generally the level of television is higher than it would be without it.
    If the government messes too much with the BBC we could end up with Fox 'News'.
    An elderly, quite right wing uncle, of mine said that you only believe the BBC is of no value until you go and live in America and experience their idea of TV
    PBS and HBO are some of the world’s best television.

    CBS and NBC, on the other hand, are indeed some of the worst.
    Well maybe, and it was a while since he lived there. I really don't get the right wing obsession with defunding the BBC. It does a good job. The licence fee isn't that onerous. People need to focus their ire on some more important aspects of our society.
    The licence fee is very much like the poll tax, so it's definitely a bit weird to have the Right in favour of scrapping it and the Left equating that with the End Of Days.

    There's certainly a case for replacing the TV license with a different way of raising the money that doesn't see people jailed for non-payment, and reduces the amount of income for Capita. I've suggested hypothecating VAT revenue from related goods and services.
    It does seem that the Scottish way of dealing with TV licenses is a better approach - little / no chance of jail and no debt collectors adding their fees to unpaid demands.

    It still needs to be the BBC's money though - if it comes from Government coffers a future Nadine could just take the money away one day due to "austerity" or a presenter not being polite enough to her an interview.
  • Options
    I would have expected (and still expect) Johnson to hold up better in the Midlands, even last year the Tories gained a seat in Sandwell in a by election.

    The Tory majorities on Walsall and especially Dudley councils still look secure to me although the Tories could lose some seats in Birmingham and Coventry and control of Solihull council.
  • Options
    eek said:

    Worth pointing out that the North isn't much better.

    The Red Wall seats know they've been lied to and it's hard to see how the Tories will retain those seats in 2023 /24.

    I don't believe they would have retained many anyway even without these revelations. Tories have kidded themselves it was about "Get Brexit Done", when in reality it was "Keep Corbyn Out". My guess is most, if not all will return to Labour
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Which is a shock to no one. All designed to get a better deal off visa
    Indeed although I cannot help wondering if a small part was played by people like me who did not register any alternative means of payment. How many people would take out a new credit card just for the benefit of one shop?
    No offence, but they taken no notice of it at all. They will believe a) most would have used alternative payment methods and b) its not about you or I, its about strong arming visa. Amazon can afford to take a short term hit on a few people who wouldn't use a debit card or get a mastercard, in order to ultimately shave even a tiny amount off visa charges in the long run.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    When politicians add an apparently unnecessary word to their answers there’s usually a reason for it. Any lawyers out there got theories about why Boris Johnson & his ministers keep adding the word “implicitly” to what he believed & thought at the time of the No 10 parties ?
    https://twitter.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/1483026986570297346
    https://twitter.com/smithbarryc/status/1482991367936692226
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,374
    edited January 2022
    RobD said:

    How on earth is Johnson only at -13 in London?

    Boris was Mayor of London for eight years so presumably there is an element of familiarity. One of the focus groups reported here yesterday included someone from up north saying that at first Boris had seemed different from Eton-educated elitists like David Cameron.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    edited January 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    I don't have the reference anymore but I do remember back in 1994 an Advertising Age article that it was obvious even then that live sport and events are (in the long run) the only thing that people need to watch live ( I made a fair whack of money from 1994 / 98 just repeating that knowledge to others).

    One problem with streaming though is that what is live to you may not be as live as it elsewhere. I remember being sat in Paris during the 2018 World Cup final watching a stream 5 seconds behind a nearby pub. A discovery made just "before" the first goal was scored.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,525
    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1483020276858302470

    James Forsyth
    @JGForsyth
    Split opening up between those Tory MPs who have local elections in their patch in May, who tend to favour moving sooner, and those who don’t, who are more inclined to wait and see how those contests go

    Is there a map of where local elections are due? And a link to it?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    Where Disney have been super smart, they bought the company who was the tech backend for MLB streaming service. They have better live streaming tech than anybody, able to serve whatever stupid amount of baseball games go off at once. Even if say EPL take it in house, they need a technology partner to offer the streams.....
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    Where Disney have been super smart, they bought the company who was the tech backend for MLB streaming service. Even if say EPL take it in house, they need a technology partner to offer the streams.....
    A solved internet problem is a solved problem - Disney may own the technology but it's perfectly possible to hire the people who know how to do it for a few $m...
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1483020276858302470

    James Forsyth
    @JGForsyth
    Split opening up between those Tory MPs who have local elections in their patch in May, who tend to favour moving sooner, and those who don’t, who are more inclined to wait and see how those contests go

    Is there a map of where local elections are due? And a link to it?
    No map but there's a list at

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.

    I think the PL would be reluctant to let Sky go. As you say, the PL is massively important to Sky's business. As such, they will do whatever it takes to keep those rights. If Sky ever lose the rights, they could either go out of business, or radically alter their model and not bother bidding for PL rights ever again. Perhaps the new incumbent would then develop the same dependency on the PL rights, but that's far from certain.

    Now, I know the bidding has to be fair and if Sky get ousted, that is that. Apparently, BT did outbid them for most of the packages for 2013-16, but not by 10% so it went to a second round in which Sky blew them out of the water. So, it would take quite a lot to remove Sky. I am fairly confident that PL would never bring it in-house when they can sell the rights for such huge amounts.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    I don't have the reference anymore but I do remember back in 1994 that it was obvious even then that live sport and events are (in the long run) the only thing that people need to watch live.

    One problem with streaming though is that what is live to you may not be as live as it elsewhere. I remember being sat in Paris during the 2018 World Cup final watching a stream 5 seconds behind a nearby pub. A discovery made just "before" the first goal was scored.
    Oh indeed, people watching things ‘live’ with slight offsets can make a difference. Various encoding, decoding, satellite trips, commentary adding and compression can mean that some sources of ‘live’ might be a minute behind what actually happens.

    If something is on terrestrial and satellite TV, the satellite is always a few seconds behind.

    My internet-based commentary of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, was half a lap behind what was actually in front of me!

    As the world moves to streaming, one positive might be more opportunity for courtsiding with bookies. ;)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    I don't have the reference anymore but I do remember back in 1994 an Advertising Age article that it was obvious even then that live sport and events are (in the long run) the only thing that people need to watch live ( I made a fair whack of money from 1994 / 98 just repeating that knowledge to others).

    One problem with streaming though is that what is live to you may not be as live as it elsewhere. I remember being sat in Paris during the 2018 World Cup final watching a stream 5 seconds behind a nearby pub. A discovery made just "before" the first goal was scored.
    A bit like reading PB comments on election night.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    eek said:

    Worth pointing out that the North isn't much better.

    The Red Wall seats know they've been lied to and it's hard to see how the Tories will retain those seats in 2023 /24.

    I don't believe they would have retained many anyway even without these revelations. Tories have kidded themselves it was about "Get Brexit Done", when in reality it was "Keep Corbyn Out". My guess is most, if not all will return to Labour
    Where do you live?

    Round here it was get Brexit done and give us the improvements* you've promised us that Brexit will deliver

    * improvements were unicorn dreams and so both imaginary and impossible to deliver - but hey that is Boris / his replacements problem in 2023/4.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    edited January 2022
    Early last week, it was reported about 5 Tory MPs had turned letters of no confidence in.

    By the end of the week it was 20.

    Today it's 35.

    It requires 54, and if the trend continues we'll hit that inside 48 hours.

    y = letters, x = days.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-calling-boris-johnson-25950457 https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1483028920907841537/photo/1
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,525
    Thanks for the header.

    I approve of omnicom; far better name.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    Where Disney have been super smart, they bought the company who was the tech backend for MLB streaming service. Even if say EPL take it in house, they need a technology partner to offer the streams.....
    A solved internet problem is a solved problem - Disney may own the technology but it's perfectly possible to hire the people who know how to do it for a few $m...
    You say that, but other sports and networks have already done exactly this, they just pay Disney company to do it. MLB, NHL, WWE, UFC, Golf, Fox Sports, Eurosports...i would suggest its a bit harder to do well than just hire a few engineers e.g. Amazon live sports streams are very poor.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    No vaccine, no French Open for Djokovic, says French Sports ministry http://reut.rs/33ttEbD https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1483029009978073088/photo/1
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    I see on the previous thread that @HYUFD has now switched his support the retention of masking, because he has read that that is the government's plan.

    Is they guy even capable of independent thought?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    Scott_xP said:

    Early last week, it was reported about 5 Tory MPs had turned letters of no confidence in.

    By the end of the week it was 20.

    Today it's 35.

    It requires 54, and if the trend continues we'll hit that inside 48 hours.

    y = letters, x = days.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-calling-boris-johnson-25950457 https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1483028920907841537/photo/1

    Number missing in the first sentence?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    Soaps say hi. 🙂

    Reminds me I’m behind on Emmerdale 🤭
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    I don't have the reference anymore but I do remember back in 1994 that it was obvious even then that live sport and events are (in the long run) the only thing that people need to watch live.

    One problem with streaming though is that what is live to you may not be as live as it elsewhere. I remember being sat in Paris during the 2018 World Cup final watching a stream 5 seconds behind a nearby pub. A discovery made just "before" the first goal was scored.
    Oh indeed, people watching things ‘live’ with slight offsets can make a difference. Various encoding, decoding, satellite trips, commentary adding and compression can mean that some sources of ‘live’ might be a minute behind what actually happens.

    If something is on terrestrial and satellite TV, the satellite is always a few seconds behind.

    My internet-based commentary of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, was half a lap behind what was actually in front of me!

    As the world moves to streaming, one positive might be more opportunity for courtsiding with bookies. ;)
    I seem to remember @rcs1000 had a business around that courtsiding.

    It's worth saying that anything that is digital is slower than an old analogue channel - you need to wait for the next X frames before you can encode it correctly and send the picture out. DAB radio is a prime example where there is a 1-2 second delay simply because of how things need to be encoded.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Scott_xP said:

    No vaccine, no French Open for Djokovic, says French Sports ministry http://reut.rs/33ttEbD https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1483029009978073088/photo/1

    Four Grand Slams in tennis - Australia, France, UK and USA.

    All countries famous for just waving anyone in, and never being annoyingly obtuse or pedantic about immigration. < / sarcasm >

    He’s not getting the Slams record if he won’t be vaccinated.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    No vaccine, no French Open for Djokovic, says French Sports ministry http://reut.rs/33ttEbD https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1483029009978073088/photo/1

    I wonder, are the French insisting all the foreign Ligue 1 footballers are vaccinated? I'm fairly sure the Australians aren't singling out Djokovic, but I suspect he would be getting unfair treatment in other parts of the world.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Had an email just now, saying basically forget all those emails we sent you telling us to take your Visa card off our server. Numpties.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    Plenty of Tory MPs seem less flappy this than last week.

    Point to lack of bombshell Sunday revelations, and tearoom chitchat this morn around "disappointment not white heat" on the doorsteps.. "1.5% have gone public"

    But place is still a tinderbox were more to come...

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1483030262577565699
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    I don't have the reference anymore but I do remember back in 1994 that it was obvious even then that live sport and events are (in the long run) the only thing that people need to watch live.

    One problem with streaming though is that what is live to you may not be as live as it elsewhere. I remember being sat in Paris during the 2018 World Cup final watching a stream 5 seconds behind a nearby pub. A discovery made just "before" the first goal was scored.
    Oh indeed, people watching things ‘live’ with slight offsets can make a difference. Various encoding, decoding, satellite trips, commentary adding and compression can mean that some sources of ‘live’ might be a minute behind what actually happens.

    If something is on terrestrial and satellite TV, the satellite is always a few seconds behind.

    My internet-based commentary of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, was half a lap behind what was actually in front of me!

    As the world moves to streaming, one positive might be more opportunity for courtsiding with bookies. ;)
    I seem to remember @rcs1000 had a business around that courtsiding.

    It's worth saying that anything that is digital is slower than an old analogue channel - you need to wait for the next X frames before you can encode it correctly and send the picture out. DAB radio is a prime example where there is a 1-2 second delay simply because of how things need to be encoded.
    Ah yes, indeed he did. Crowdscores, IIRC, it was called - trying to get live football goals and cards displayed on a phone app before they were seen on TV, with the unsaid message that this might be useful if you’re betting on the match.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Which is a shock to no one. All designed to get a better deal off visa
    Side benefits to the customer though. Having registered and used my debit card (and therefore received £40 IIRC in freebies from Amazon for so doing,) I can now go back to my credit card again as if nothing had happened. Which is nice.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    tlg86 said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.

    I think the PL would be reluctant to let Sky go. As you say, the PL is massively important to Sky's business. As such, they will do whatever it takes to keep those rights. If Sky ever lose the rights, they could either go out of business, or radically alter their model and not bother bidding for PL rights ever again. Perhaps the new incumbent would then develop the same dependency on the PL rights, but that's far from certain.

    Now, I know the bidding has to be fair and if Sky get ousted, that is that. Apparently, BT did outbid them for most of the packages for 2013-16, but not by 10% so it went to a second round in which Sky blew them out of the water. So, it would take quite a lot to remove Sky. I am fairly confident that PL would never bring it in-house when they can sell the rights for such huge amounts.
    Actually the analysis is that the EPL would make a lot more from bringing it in house. £10 / month for an EPL channel they would be way ahead of their current deal assuming decent take up from current Sky subscriber base, and that's before considering global markets.

    The big thing thay stops EPL is they don't have the tech and all the the filler content (especially if you went global as need multi-language). Sky fills several channels day in day out with EPL related material. The EPL would have to setup an operation to fill this void.

    But as we keep saying making your own content gets easier every year and all the clubs have their own output now already. Its the streaming tech platform they need for mass viewership.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    I don't have the reference anymore but I do remember back in 1994 that it was obvious even then that live sport and events are (in the long run) the only thing that people need to watch live.

    One problem with streaming though is that what is live to you may not be as live as it elsewhere. I remember being sat in Paris during the 2018 World Cup final watching a stream 5 seconds behind a nearby pub. A discovery made just "before" the first goal was scored.
    Oh indeed, people watching things ‘live’ with slight offsets can make a difference. Various encoding, decoding, satellite trips, commentary adding and compression can mean that some sources of ‘live’ might be a minute behind what actually happens.

    If something is on terrestrial and satellite TV, the satellite is always a few seconds behind.

    My internet-based commentary of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, was half a lap behind what was actually in front of me!

    As the world moves to streaming, one positive might be more opportunity for courtsiding with bookies. ;)
    I seem to remember @rcs1000 had a business around that courtsiding.

    It's worth saying that anything that is digital is slower than an old analogue channel - you need to wait for the next X frames before you can encode it correctly and send the picture out. DAB radio is a prime example where there is a 1-2 second delay simply because of how things need to be encoded.
    I used to work developing DAB products. I'm currently listening to a DAB radio that uses our software. It also uses an RF chip designed by Mrs J. ;)
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,525
    Brains Trust: How does Contempt of Court work in English Courts for Judicial Review proceedings?

    AIUI the underlying reason for non-discussion non-publciation is to prevent potential prejudice of a jury. But since Judicial Review involves no jury, and judges are high-minded individuals who never get anything wrong (cough), there should be no restrictions in a JR.

    Correct?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    What happens to my small holding of Glaxo shares if they accept the Unilever offer ?

    Do I end up with a bunch of Unilever shares in my account instead ?
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Early last week, it was reported about 5 Tory MPs had turned letters of no confidence in.

    By the end of the week it was 20.

    Today it's 35.

    It requires 54, and if the trend continues we'll hit that inside 48 hours.

    y = letters, x = days.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-calling-boris-johnson-25950457 https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1483028920907841537/photo/1

    So it all probably hinges on whether Cummings has more in his library, as usual. Yesterday I saw he was criticising attempts to redirect away blame from Johnson onto his wife, on his twitter account, interestingly.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,250
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    No vaccine, no French Open for Djokovic, says French Sports ministry http://reut.rs/33ttEbD https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1483029009978073088/photo/1

    I wonder, are the French insisting all the foreign Ligue 1 footballers are vaccinated? I'm fairly sure the Australians aren't singling out Djokovic, but I suspect he would be getting unfair treatment in other parts of the world.
    If they are based in France then they will have to be vaccinated. The rules for visiting sports people seem to be unclear...
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    Soaps say hi. 🙂

    Reminds me I’m behind on Emmerdale 🤭
    Mrs DA looks quite a lot like Crazy Meena. Sometimes the mind plays tricks.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    It is obvious but worth saying ... the narrative is:

    Conservative MPs are considering the electoral hit from #partygate on whether they change leader.

    Not:

    Conservative MPs are considering whether a PM must adhere to rules he set for others during a national crisis.

    https://twitter.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1483031792034754563
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited January 2022
    In terms of actual voting intention however the Tories are still on 39% in the Midlands, only 6% behind Labour on 45%.

    In London by contast the Tories are now well behind Labour on 26% with Labour on 47%.

    In fact according to Opinium the Midlands is now the Tories best region, with the Tories on 32% in the North, 34% in the South, 16% in Wales and 21% in Scotland

    https://www.opinium.com/polling-tables-archive/
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720
    Pulpstar said:

    What happens to my small holding of Glaxo shares if they accept the Unilever offer ?

    Do I end up with a bunch of Unilever shares in my account instead ?

    All depends, but that seems usual. Plus often a fractional cash payment to compensate for the odd bit of share left over (which has to go into one's CGT paperwork, as I know all too well from sorting that out for my parents). But the bumf will make it clear.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Carnyx said:

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Had an email just now, saying basically forget all those emails we sent you telling us to take your Visa card off our server. Numpties.
    When I ran a small business the biggest card charger was American Express; super intro terms, then massive charges. Do Amazon take American Express.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    No vaccine, no French Open for Djokovic, says French Sports ministry http://reut.rs/33ttEbD https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1483029009978073088/photo/1

    I wonder, are the French insisting all the foreign Ligue 1 footballers are vaccinated? I'm fairly sure the Australians aren't singling out Djokovic, but I suspect he would be getting unfair treatment in other parts of the world.
    I think the ones that are already there won't be but any new arrivals will be. It bodes ill for premier league players who are unvaccinated and won't be able to go. Hopefully this is the kick in the arse they need to get it done.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,525

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    Soaps say hi. 🙂

    Reminds me I’m behind on Emmerdale 🤭
    If I had to choose one PBer civilised enough to watch Emmerdale ...

    PS Can you update us on the Archers. Have they disinterred Nigel Pargeter yet as the next exciting rural storyline?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720

    Carnyx said:

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Had an email just now, saying basically forget all those emails we sent you telling us to take your Visa card off our server. Numpties.
    When I ran a small business the biggest card charger was American Express; super intro terms, then massive charges. Do Amazon take American Express.
    Yep. Just updating my Visa card as it happens and there's an AE option.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Totally O/t but is there a weather/sunlight affecting cloud as a result of the Tongan volcano, and if so, how big is it?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Scott_xP said:

    When politicians add an apparently unnecessary word to their answers there’s usually a reason for it. Any lawyers out there got theories about why Boris Johnson & his ministers keep adding the word “implicitly” to what he believed & thought at the time of the No 10 parties ?
    https://twitter.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/1483026986570297346
    https://twitter.com/smithbarryc/status/1482991367936692226

    Not a lawyer, but as a layman I would say the idea is that there are no witnesses who can say that he explicitly said 'Oh, lovely, a work event' so the idea that he thought it was a work event remains implicit. Perhaps they will try to argue that the fact he didn't stop the event shows he implicitly thought it was a work event even though he didn't articulate that.
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,708

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    I only learnt of this possibility on here.
    If Amazon had been serious, they'd have been informing customers (they weren't) and telling them they needed another way to pay. Given many are wedded to their bank and credit cards, it simply would've meant losing nearly half their customer base.

    If I was VISA, I'd have simply called their bluff.....
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited January 2022

    I see on the previous thread that @HYUFD has now switched his support the retention of masking, because he has read that that is the government's plan.

    Is they guy even capable of independent thought?

    No I have always supported masking. It is just a small practical measure to contain the spread of Covid in winter on public transport and crowded shops.

    Further restrictions on the vaccinated in terms of closing pubs, restaurants and large events and nightclubs is what I am opposed to
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    tlg86 said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.

    I think the PL would be reluctant to let Sky go. As you say, the PL is massively important to Sky's business. As such, they will do whatever it takes to keep those rights. If Sky ever lose the rights, they could either go out of business, or radically alter their model and not bother bidding for PL rights ever again. Perhaps the new incumbent would then develop the same dependency on the PL rights, but that's far from certain.

    Now, I know the bidding has to be fair and if Sky get ousted, that is that. Apparently, BT did outbid them for most of the packages for 2013-16, but not by 10% so it went to a second round in which Sky blew them out of the water. So, it would take quite a lot to remove Sky. I am fairly confident that PL would never bring it in-house when they can sell the rights for such huge amounts.
    Actually the analysis is that the EPL would make a lot more from bringing it in house. £10 / month for an EPL channel they would be way ahead of their current deal assuming decent take up from current Sky subscriber base, and that's before considering global markets.

    The big thing thay stops EPL is they don't have the tech and all the the filler content (especially if you went global as need multi-language). Sky fills several channels day in day out with EPL related material. The EPL would have to setup an operation to fill this void.

    But as we keep saying making your own content gets easier every year and all the clubs have their own output now already. Its the streaming tech platform they need for mass viewership.
    I don't think that's true wrt tech, the premier league now controls the stream for all broadcasters and have been quietly installing 4k HDR infrastructure at all of the major grounds at the country. Sky now plug into the premier league feed rather than the other way around. I think they made that decision at the last rights round that everyone would get the premier league feed rather than allow Sky to control the feed and ultimately own the TV content.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    No vaccine, no French Open for Djokovic, says French Sports ministry http://reut.rs/33ttEbD https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1483029009978073088/photo/1

    Four Grand Slams in tennis - Australia, France, UK and USA.

    All countries famous for just waving anyone in, and never being annoyingly obtuse or pedantic about immigration. < / sarcasm >

    He’s not getting the Slams record if he won’t be vaccinated.
    Djokovic really needs the Covid flap to end in most countries, rather than dragging on for years, or else he's going to be very hampered in terms of where he'll still be allowed to compete full stop.

    That said, the outright record is still doable. I doubt that he'll have any difficulty getting into this country to defend his Wimbledon title; consequently, given that I think it reasonable to assume that Federer is done, even if Djokovic never played the other three slams again he'd still only need one more win at SW19 than Nadal managed to claim everywhere else - and Nadal is older and more injury prone than he is.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720

    Totally O/t but is there a weather/sunlight affecting cloud as a result of the Tongan volcano, and if so, how big is it?

    Seemingly local/regional effect only.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/no-hunga-tonga-eruption-wont-slow-global-warming/MWLPEPNRN4VRRSLRAB6OR6QT7E/
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Scott_xP said:

    Plenty of Tory MPs seem less flappy this than last week.

    Point to lack of bombshell Sunday revelations, and tearoom chitchat this morn around "disappointment not white heat" on the doorsteps.. "1.5% have gone public"

    But place is still a tinderbox were more to come...

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1483030262577565699

    The Invisible Assailant hasn’t been using Sundays though, they prefer weekdays. Sunday week ago was perfectly quiet, anyone saying Boris in mortal danger was being laughed at. Maybe Invisible Assailant think there is more cut through weekedays late afternoon than weekends?

    Sounds like MPs are just bottling it and trying to find any excuse - as the majority of PB always expected they would - the only beneficiary of supporting a lame duck are for the opposition who really are going to be listened to and taken seriously now by voters.In other words, Big G is the loser in this delay, MoonRabbit a winner.

    For my out in 2022 bet where I double my £50 anytime this year is a winner. 🤑
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    Live sport is about the only thing keeping ‘linear’ TV alive. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I watched a broadcast TV programme ‘live’, that wasn’t a sporting event or news channel.

    Sky (and ESPN in the States) are screwed, if sporting bodies decide to run their own broadcast service and cut out the middlemen.
    I don't have the reference anymore but I do remember back in 1994 that it was obvious even then that live sport and events are (in the long run) the only thing that people need to watch live.

    One problem with streaming though is that what is live to you may not be as live as it elsewhere. I remember being sat in Paris during the 2018 World Cup final watching a stream 5 seconds behind a nearby pub. A discovery made just "before" the first goal was scored.
    Oh indeed, people watching things ‘live’ with slight offsets can make a difference. Various encoding, decoding, satellite trips, commentary adding and compression can mean that some sources of ‘live’ might be a minute behind what actually happens.

    If something is on terrestrial and satellite TV, the satellite is always a few seconds behind.

    My internet-based commentary of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, was half a lap behind what was actually in front of me!

    As the world moves to streaming, one positive might be more opportunity for courtsiding with bookies. ;)
    Courtsiding is old-school, especially during the pandemic. Drones are the new courtsiding.
    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/horse-racing-drone
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1483020276858302470

    James Forsyth
    @JGForsyth
    Split opening up between those Tory MPs who have local elections in their patch in May, who tend to favour moving sooner, and those who don’t, who are more inclined to wait and see how those contests go

    Is there a map of where local elections are due? And a link to it?
    Most council seats up in May are in London, Scotland and Wales.

    Most of rural and market town England does not have local elections this year, so most Tory MPs will not have local elections in their local authority in May
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.

    I think the PL would be reluctant to let Sky go. As you say, the PL is massively important to Sky's business. As such, they will do whatever it takes to keep those rights. If Sky ever lose the rights, they could either go out of business, or radically alter their model and not bother bidding for PL rights ever again. Perhaps the new incumbent would then develop the same dependency on the PL rights, but that's far from certain.

    Now, I know the bidding has to be fair and if Sky get ousted, that is that. Apparently, BT did outbid them for most of the packages for 2013-16, but not by 10% so it went to a second round in which Sky blew them out of the water. So, it would take quite a lot to remove Sky. I am fairly confident that PL would never bring it in-house when they can sell the rights for such huge amounts.
    Actually the analysis is that the EPL would make a lot more from bringing it in house. £10 / month for an EPL channel they would be way ahead of their current deal assuming decent take up from current Sky subscriber base, and that's before considering global markets.

    The big thing thay stops EPL is they don't have the tech and all the the filler content (especially if you went global as need multi-language). Sky fills several channels day in day out with EPL related material. The EPL would have to setup an operation to fill this void.

    But as we keep saying making your own content gets easier every year and all the clubs have their own output now already. Its the streaming tech platform they need for mass viewership.
    I don't think that's true wrt tech, the premier league now controls the stream for all broadcasters and have been quietly installing 4k HDR infrastructure at all of the major grounds at the country. Sky now plug into the premier league feed rather than the other way around. I think they made that decision at the last rights round that everyone would get the premier league feed rather than allow Sky to control the feed and ultimately own the TV content.
    Two different things. Talking about the retail distribution. That's different from servicing millions of customers via the internet stream. EPL aren't providng the Sky Glass sky sports stream or Amazon Prime stream, they are just providing the raw video footage. The tech obstacle is distribution of this to millions / 10 millions of people if you went all OTT.

    EPL can still easily partner with somebody for the tech. All the analysis i read about this, its the content filler they worry they can do as well as Sky or BT. They don't want a GB News style amateur hour channel ruining their brand.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,720

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    I only learnt of this possibility on here.
    If Amazon had been serious, they'd have been informing customers (they weren't) and telling them they needed another way to pay. Given many are wedded to their bank and credit cards, it simply would've meant losing nearly half their customer base.

    If I was VISA, I'd have simply called their bluff.....
    Amazon sent me lots of emails saying GTF with my Visa card - but possibly because I had one set up by default. No idea if one got an email if one didn't have a payment method set up.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,445
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    I see on the previous thread that @HYUFD has now switched his support the retention of masking, because he has read that that is the government's plan.

    Is they guy even capable of independent thought?

    No I have always supported masking. It is just a small practical measure to contain the spread of Covid in winter on public transport and crowded shops.

    Further restrictions on the vaccinated in terms of closing pubs, restaurants and large events and nightclubs is what I am opposed to
    But less than a week ago you were saying that those opposed to plan B measures would stick with the Conservatives because they have nowhere else to go.
    Now it seems they don't have the Conservatives either.

    Masking is not a small practical measure, it is a) pointless theatre which does little or nothing to stop spread of omicron, and b) economically and societally damaging.

    And no matter what polling on the matter says, I don't believe it is popular or beneficial for the government.
    When given the choice, most people don't mask. If they genuinely supported masking, voluntary masking would be much more prevalent.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992

    eek said:

    Worth pointing out that the North isn't much better.

    The Red Wall seats know they've been lied to and it's hard to see how the Tories will retain those seats in 2023 /24.

    I don't believe they would have retained many anyway even without these revelations. Tories have kidded themselves it was about "Get Brexit Done", when in reality it was "Keep Corbyn Out". My guess is most, if not all will return to Labour
    Brexit has been done so that does not prove anything.

    Keep Corbyn out got the Conservatives a minority government and most seats in 2017, only get Brexit done with Boris got the Conservatives a big majority in 2019
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628
    Disappointed to hear the PB event is cancelled. First I was going to attend. Whose worried about Omicron? The venue?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.

    I think the PL would be reluctant to let Sky go. As you say, the PL is massively important to Sky's business. As such, they will do whatever it takes to keep those rights. If Sky ever lose the rights, they could either go out of business, or radically alter their model and not bother bidding for PL rights ever again. Perhaps the new incumbent would then develop the same dependency on the PL rights, but that's far from certain.

    Now, I know the bidding has to be fair and if Sky get ousted, that is that. Apparently, BT did outbid them for most of the packages for 2013-16, but not by 10% so it went to a second round in which Sky blew them out of the water. So, it would take quite a lot to remove Sky. I am fairly confident that PL would never bring it in-house when they can sell the rights for such huge amounts.
    Actually the analysis is that the EPL would make a lot more from bringing it in house. £10 / month for an EPL channel they would be way ahead of their current deal assuming decent take up from current Sky subscriber base, and that's before considering global markets.

    The big thing thay stops EPL is they don't have the tech and all the the filler content (especially if you went global as need multi-language). Sky fills several channels day in day out with EPL related material. The EPL would have to setup an operation to fill this void.

    But as we keep saying making your own content gets easier every year and all the clubs have their own output now already. Its the streaming tech platform they need for mass viewership.
    I don't think that's true wrt tech, the premier league now controls the stream for all broadcasters and have been quietly installing 4k HDR infrastructure at all of the major grounds at the country. Sky now plug into the premier league feed rather than the other way around. I think they made that decision at the last rights round that everyone would get the premier league feed rather than allow Sky to control the feed and ultimately own the TV content.
    That’s what F1 does too. They used to have a local broadcaster in each country produce the programme, but now F1 do it themselves (except for Monaco), sending dozens of people and tonnes of equipment around the world to do so.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    edited January 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Had an email just now, saying basically forget all those emails we sent you telling us to take your Visa card off our server. Numpties.
    When I ran a small business the biggest card charger was American Express; super intro terms, then massive charges. Do Amazon take American Express.
    Yep. Just updating my Visa card as it happens and there's an AE option.
    Thanks; I wonder what AE charge. It's a long, long time ago now but from memory AE were charging retailers about 5-6 times the competition.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994

    Totally O/t but is there a weather/sunlight affecting cloud as a result of the Tongan volcano, and if so, how big is it?

    That's an interesting question. As it was mainly an undersea event, I'd expect much less dust and a lot more water vapour than a land-based one. If you look at some of the videos of the eruption, the initial blast is white, with brown edges forming later.

    BTW, Wiki has an interesting article showing how the volcano and its associated islands have changed over recent years: the weekend's eruption is only the latest of many. Apparently most of both islands have gone.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunga_Tonga
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited January 2022
    Foxy said:

    Epping Forest Massive approval keeping the London ratings up...

    Epping Forest district is counted as the South, not London
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612
    HYUFD said:

    I see on the previous thread that @HYUFD has now switched his support the retention of masking, because he has read that that is the government's plan.

    Is they guy even capable of independent thought?

    No I have always supported masking. It is just a small practical measure to contain the spread of Covid in winter on public transport and crowded shops.

    Further restrictions on the vaccinated in terms of closing pubs, restaurants and large events and nightclubs is what I am opposed to
    So if compulsory masks on trains are scrapped next week, you'll be writing to your MP to complain?
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    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    HYUFD said:

    I see on the previous thread that @HYUFD has now switched his support the retention of masking, because he has read that that is the government's plan.

    Is they guy even capable of independent thought?

    No I have always supported masking. It is just a small practical measure to contain the spread of Covid in winter on public transport and crowded shops.

    Further restrictions on the vaccinated in terms of closing pubs, restaurants and large events and nightclubs is what I am opposed to
    Masking's a pain in the arse, and if it isn't dumped this Winter then there's a material risk we'll be stuck with the bastard things for six months of every year for the rest of time. If Covid isn't used as the excuse it'll simply be changed to flu instead.

    It is left to us to hope that the wing of your Parliamentary party that's strongly opposed to the rules continuing tells the Government where to stick them - and the Prime Minister backs down because he's too weak to risk the possibility of more letters being sent in.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    edited January 2022
    Pulpstar said:

    What happens to my small holding of Glaxo shares if they accept the Unilever offer ?

    Do I end up with a bunch of Unilever shares in my account instead ?

    All we know is that the offer was around £50bn, and about 80% cash.
    Given the latter detail, it's fairly likely that small shareholders would be able to opt for 100% cash should the deal go ahead.

    Though of course the offer is not for the whole company - just for their consumer arm.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    tlg86 said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.

    I think the PL would be reluctant to let Sky go. As you say, the PL is massively important to Sky's business. As such, they will do whatever it takes to keep those rights. If Sky ever lose the rights, they could either go out of business, or radically alter their model and not bother bidding for PL rights ever again. Perhaps the new incumbent would then develop the same dependency on the PL rights, but that's far from certain.

    Now, I know the bidding has to be fair and if Sky get ousted, that is that. Apparently, BT did outbid them for most of the packages for 2013-16, but not by 10% so it went to a second round in which Sky blew them out of the water. So, it would take quite a lot to remove Sky. I am fairly confident that PL would never bring it in-house when they can sell the rights for such huge amounts.
    Actually the analysis is that the EPL would make a lot more from bringing it in house. £10 / month for an EPL channel they would be way ahead of their current deal assuming decent take up from current Sky subscriber base, and that's before considering global markets.

    The big thing thay stops EPL is they don't have the tech and all the the filler content (especially if you went global as need multi-language). Sky fills several channels day in day out with EPL related material. The EPL would have to setup an operation to fill this void.

    But as we keep saying making your own content gets easier every year and all the clubs have their own output now already. Its the streaming tech platform they need for mass viewership.
    Current PL UK deal = £1.6 billion a year
    Current PL international income = about the same in total as the UK according media reports
    So total = £3.2 billion a year

    That would need around 27 million subscribers at £120 per year to match it, before we even think about increased costs.

    I guess there's potential to get more subscribers in the UK and Ireland at a much reduced fee (I'm paying a lot more than £10 a month!), but maybe not many more.

    The big question is, how many people around the world who currently don't have to pay to watch the PL would cough up the money to watch it?
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    Carnyx said:

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    I only learnt of this possibility on here.
    If Amazon had been serious, they'd have been informing customers (they weren't) and telling them they needed another way to pay. Given many are wedded to their bank and credit cards, it simply would've meant losing nearly half their customer base.

    If I was VISA, I'd have simply called their bluff.....
    Amazon sent me lots of emails saying GTF with my Visa card - but possibly because I had one set up by default. No idea if one got an email if one didn't have a payment method set up.
    TheValiant appears to have missed the part where Amazon did exactly that. Indeed they gave you £20 for signing up a Mastercard.

    Their powerplay appears to have worked.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    Starmer said he wants Gary Neville to stand as a Labour MP after he joined the Labour Party and he would have him in his Shadow Cabinet

    https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1483033445295136768?s=20
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.

    I think the PL would be reluctant to let Sky go. As you say, the PL is massively important to Sky's business. As such, they will do whatever it takes to keep those rights. If Sky ever lose the rights, they could either go out of business, or radically alter their model and not bother bidding for PL rights ever again. Perhaps the new incumbent would then develop the same dependency on the PL rights, but that's far from certain.

    Now, I know the bidding has to be fair and if Sky get ousted, that is that. Apparently, BT did outbid them for most of the packages for 2013-16, but not by 10% so it went to a second round in which Sky blew them out of the water. So, it would take quite a lot to remove Sky. I am fairly confident that PL would never bring it in-house when they can sell the rights for such huge amounts.
    Actually the analysis is that the EPL would make a lot more from bringing it in house. £10 / month for an EPL channel they would be way ahead of their current deal assuming decent take up from current Sky subscriber base, and that's before considering global markets.

    The big thing thay stops EPL is they don't have the tech and all the the filler content (especially if you went global as need multi-language). Sky fills several channels day in day out with EPL related material. The EPL would have to setup an operation to fill this void.

    But as we keep saying making your own content gets easier every year and all the clubs have their own output now already. Its the streaming tech platform they need for mass viewership.
    Current PL UK deal = £1.6 billion a year
    Current PL international income = about the same in total as the UK according media reports
    So total = £3.2 billion a year

    That would need around 27 million subscribers at £120 per year to match it, before we even think about increased costs.

    I guess there's potential to get more subscribers in the UK and Ireland at a much reduced fee (I'm paying a lot more than £10 a month!), but maybe not many more.

    The big question is, how many people around the world who currently don't have to pay to watch the PL would cough up the money to watch it?
    You are forgetting they get to run their own ads and corporate tie ins....the likes of the athletic have done in depth analysis of this and all agree EPL would make more money from a PremFlix approach even at £10 a month (and of course they would charge more than this).
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.

    I think the PL would be reluctant to let Sky go. As you say, the PL is massively important to Sky's business. As such, they will do whatever it takes to keep those rights. If Sky ever lose the rights, they could either go out of business, or radically alter their model and not bother bidding for PL rights ever again. Perhaps the new incumbent would then develop the same dependency on the PL rights, but that's far from certain.

    Now, I know the bidding has to be fair and if Sky get ousted, that is that. Apparently, BT did outbid them for most of the packages for 2013-16, but not by 10% so it went to a second round in which Sky blew them out of the water. So, it would take quite a lot to remove Sky. I am fairly confident that PL would never bring it in-house when they can sell the rights for such huge amounts.
    Actually the analysis is that the EPL would make a lot more from bringing it in house. £10 / month for an EPL channel they would be way ahead of their current deal assuming decent take up from current Sky subscriber base, and that's before considering global markets.

    The big thing thay stops EPL is they don't have the tech and all the the filler content (especially if you went global as need multi-language). Sky fills several channels day in day out with EPL related material. The EPL would have to setup an operation to fill this void.

    But as we keep saying making your own content gets easier every year and all the clubs have their own output now already. Its the streaming tech platform they need for mass viewership.
    I don't think that's true wrt tech, the premier league now controls the stream for all broadcasters and have been quietly installing 4k HDR infrastructure at all of the major grounds at the country. Sky now plug into the premier league feed rather than the other way around. I think they made that decision at the last rights round that everyone would get the premier league feed rather than allow Sky to control the feed and ultimately own the TV content.
    That’s what F1 does too. They used to have a local broadcaster in each country produce the programme, but now F1 do it themselves (except for Monaco), sending dozens of people and tonnes of equipment around the world to do so.
    The trouble was around liaising and co-operating with the local broadcaster. It's quite probable, too, that the 2019 Japanese event would have to have been called off had F1 not had it's own kit and been able to move it.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992

    HYUFD said:

    I see on the previous thread that @HYUFD has now switched his support the retention of masking, because he has read that that is the government's plan.

    Is they guy even capable of independent thought?

    No I have always supported masking. It is just a small practical measure to contain the spread of Covid in winter on public transport and crowded shops.

    Further restrictions on the vaccinated in terms of closing pubs, restaurants and large events and nightclubs is what I am opposed to
    So if compulsory masks on trains are scrapped next week, you'll be writing to your MP to complain?
    They can be moved in Spring from compulsory to voluntary
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    I only learnt of this possibility on here.
    If Amazon had been serious, they'd have been informing customers (they weren't) and telling them they needed another way to pay. Given many are wedded to their bank and credit cards, it simply would've meant losing nearly half their customer base.

    If I was VISA, I'd have simply called their bluff.....
    They for sure were informing customers, they bullied me into substituting a debit card.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Scots living up to their 'canny' handle, I see. But gosh London disappoints. In fact wtf gives with London there? I live in London and I know nobody with a good word for BoJo. Either that number is wrong or I'm not qualified to speak for my city.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    Scots living up to their 'canny' handle, I see. But gosh London disappoints. In fact wtf gives with London there? I live in London and I know nobody with a good word for BoJo. Either that number is wrong or I'm not qualified to speak for my city.

    Nontrivial number of Londoners have been partying with Boris
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited January 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Scots living up to their 'canny' handle, I see. But gosh London disappoints. In fact wtf gives with London there? I live in London and I know nobody with a good word for BoJo. Either that number is wrong or I'm not qualified to speak for my city.

    As I already posted on the actual voting intention figures from Opinium the Tories are only on 26% in London, well below the 31% the Tories are on UK wide.

    Boris has always had a bit of a personal vote in London, hence he is the only Tory ever to have been elected London Mayor, however while some such voters may have voted for Boris for Mayor they will not vote Tory at a general election
  • Options
    AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004

    Its not just BBC need to be worries about the future of media, Sky i suggest are in big trouble. Their model of high subscription costs for 1000 channels is again an incredibly out dated model, and they are heavily dependent on a select number of sports rights for the bulk of their subscribers, and although they are investing in original content, the best stuff e.g. on Sky Atlantic, they don't own. its mostly HBO, who have their own streaming app now.

    If EPL decide to take the rights in house or their is the massive elephant in the room of Disney, who already own ESPN, and they already set up their offering in US, get ESPN+, Hulu and Disney+ as a package. That's sports, kids and grown ups content and can easily afford sports rights. Much sleaker offering than traditional cable or sky here.

    Why anyone has a Sky subscription for anything other than sports is beyond me. Paying for numerous channels to be broadcast over satellite when you can stream almost anything on demand through other sources. I am amazed at people paying £100/month for Sky.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Which is a shock to no one. All designed to get a better deal off visa
    Indeed although I cannot help wondering if a small part was played by people like me who did not register any alternative means of payment. How many people would take out a new credit card just for the benefit of one shop?
    No offence, but they taken no notice of it at all. They will believe a) most would have used alternative payment methods and b) its not about you or I, its about strong arming visa. Amazon can afford to take a short term hit on a few people who wouldn't use a debit card or get a mastercard, in order to ultimately shave even a tiny amount off visa charges in the long run.
    I'm not convinced by that.

    They would stand to lose quite bit of continuing revenue if they hadn't renewed the deal - if nothing else because it would have reminded quite a few people they were paying for stuff they weren't using. People tend not to get around to cancelling subscriptions; they also tend not to get around to renewing if it's made difficult.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    HYUFD said:

    Starmer said he wants Gary Neville to stand as a Labour MP after he joined the Labour Party and he would have him in his Shadow Cabinet

    https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1483033445295136768?s=20

    Is he trying to make Bootle go Tory?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610
    HYUFD said:

    In terms of actual voting intention however the Tories are still on 39% in the Midlands, only 6% behind Labour on 45%.

    In London by contast the Tories are now well behind Labour on 26% with Labour on 47%.

    In fact according to Opinium the Midlands is now the Tories best region, with the Tories on 32% in the North, 34% in the South, 16% in Wales and 21% in Scotland

    https://www.opinium.com/polling-tables-archive/

    I know it is a sub-sample, but 16% in Wales is pretty grim.
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    Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300
    MattW said:

    Brains Trust: How does Contempt of Court work in English Courts for Judicial Review proceedings?

    AIUI the underlying reason for non-discussion non-publciation is to prevent potential prejudice of a jury. But since Judicial Review involves no jury, and judges are high-minded individuals who never get anything wrong (cough), there should be no restrictions in a JR.

    Correct?

    The test is did the act of publication cause a "substantial risk of serious prejudice". That risk is clearly less in a non-jury trial - and you're right judges are trusted to be better than the average juror at putting such things out of mind. But I think there there are other considerations... influencing witnesses etc... and of course other statutory protections over who can be identified etc.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Pulpstar said:

    What happens to my small holding of Glaxo shares if they accept the Unilever offer ?

    Do I end up with a bunch of Unilever shares in my account instead ?

    Possibly, but I expect smaller shareholders will be able to opt for all cash and Glaxo becomes Unilever's largest shareholder.
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    kinabalu said:

    Scots living up to their 'canny' handle, I see. But gosh London disappoints. In fact wtf gives with London there? I live in London and I know nobody with a good word for BoJo. Either that number is wrong or I'm not qualified to speak for my city.

    Your acquaintances are not representative of the whole. Birds of a feather flock together.
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    Scott_xP said:

    Plenty of Tory MPs seem less flappy this than last week.

    Point to lack of bombshell Sunday revelations, and tearoom chitchat this morn around "disappointment not white heat" on the doorsteps.. "1.5% have gone public"

    But place is still a tinderbox were more to come...

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1483030262577565699

    The Invisible Assailant hasn’t been using Sundays though, they prefer weekdays. Sunday week ago was perfectly quiet, anyone saying Boris in mortal danger was being laughed at. Maybe Invisible Assailant think there is more cut through weekedays late afternoon than weekends?

    Sounds like MPs are just bottling it and trying to find any excuse - as the majority of PB always expected they would - the only beneficiary of supporting a lame duck are for the opposition who really are going to be listened to and taken seriously now by voters.In other words, Big G is the loser in this delay, MoonRabbit a winner.

    For my out in 2022 bet where I double my £50 anytime this year is a winner. 🤑
    I accept that it is increasingly likely that Boris will hang on until May and that my belief he would be out in the next few weeks is disappearing mainly due to the indecision of his mps who ultimately have to unite to act
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1481952575238852608

    Sue Gray is totally independent, so it is entirely up to her whether or not she wants to become Baroness Sue Gray in the near future.
    #BorisJohnsonResign
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    Nigelb said:

    OT Amazon seems to have suspended its planned cancellation of Visa credit cards.

    Which is a shock to no one. All designed to get a better deal off visa
    Indeed although I cannot help wondering if a small part was played by people like me who did not register any alternative means of payment. How many people would take out a new credit card just for the benefit of one shop?
    No offence, but they taken no notice of it at all. They will believe a) most would have used alternative payment methods and b) its not about you or I, its about strong arming visa. Amazon can afford to take a short term hit on a few people who wouldn't use a debit card or get a mastercard, in order to ultimately shave even a tiny amount off visa charges in the long run.
    I'm not convinced by that.

    They would stand to lose quite bit of continuing revenue if they hadn't renewed the deal - if nothing else because it would have reminded quite a few people they were paying for stuff they weren't using. People tend not to get around to cancelling subscriptions; they also tend not to get around to renewing if it's made difficult.
    Short term yes, but long term shaving some points off visa transactions is worth eye watering amounts to amazon.
This discussion has been closed.