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Johnson: leading his party into opposition? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited January 2022 in General
imageJohnson: leading his party into opposition? – politicalbetting.com

At GE2019 the Tories secured their big majority by taking a GB vote share which was just under 12% above LAB. In the past 24 hours we have had one poll with Starmer’s party now 14% ahead. That is an overall change of nearly 26% which is huge.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    edited January 2022
    Ooh - me?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Just trust him. He'll lead the party to the appropriate place.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    edited January 2022
    Boris Johnson's support was very shallow but I think Starmer's is even more so.

    Both men are dishonest opportunistic charlatans who have sold out any principles they ever had.

    So fairly typical politicians of the Twitter age, sadly.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    No no. Swingback will save the Tories!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022
    I asked GPT3 what it thought about Boris....It said....

    I hate liars, they steal the truth and try and sell it back to you.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...

    I concur. Irrespective how a seat becomes vacant, it should be properly contested. Failure of democracy to have a phoney by-election. Ditto speaker.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...

    I disagree. You can't have business as usual as far as the by election goes after an MP has been murdered. No one will read much into the result because of the very specific circumstances so I don't think Johnson will be able to take much comfort from it.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Chris said:

    Just trust him. He'll lead the party to the appropriate place.

    Across the River Styx.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022
    GPT-3 on a roll....

    A liar, a dirty liar,
    he lies to get this way,
    When caught, he'll say he didn't,
    he's not the least bit sky.
    He lies to cover up his dirt,
    but there's no way to hide.
    His face is always red with guilt.
    I guess that's how he's made.
    He'll never change, there's no doubt.
    He's a dirty liar.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Fishing said:

    Boris Johnson's support was very shallow but I think Starmer's is even more so.

    Both men are dishonest opportunistic charlatans who have sold out any principles they ever had.

    So fairly typical politicians of the Twitter age, sadly.

    That’s some claim!

    Your bitter and inaccurate knee-jerk reaction to adversity is fairly typical of anonymous polemicists of the obscure blog age.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...

    I disagree. You can't have business as usual as far as the by election goes after an MP has been murdered. No one will read much into the result because of the very specific circumstances so I don't think Johnson will be able to take much comfort from it.
    But that's the point, you can guarantee if it were properly fought you'd get a result you could read something into. Like eastbourne 1990.
  • The Chinese capital, Beijing, has reported its first locally transmitted infection of the Omicron variant, according to state media, just weeks ahead of its staging of the Olympic Winter Games.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    I asked GPT3 what it thought about Boris....It said....

    I hate liars, they steal the truth and try and sell it back to you.

    I asked a Magic 8-Ball about Boris and it said "Ask again later".
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    Chris said:

    Just trust him. He'll lead the party to the appropriate place.

    Across the River Styx.
    "then dying, shall through long centuries wander, as it were, a disconsolate ghost, on the wrong side of Styx and Lethe; his name like to outlive Cæsar's"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Fishing said:

    Boris Johnson's support was very shallow but I think Starmer's is even more so.

    Both men are dishonest opportunistic charlatans who have sold out any principles they ever had.

    So fairly typical politicians of the Twitter age, sadly.

    The support for the Johnsonisn Conservative Party was anything but shallow. A solid 40 plus points come rain or shine. Even a petrol crisis which scythed down Blair's Labour lead couldn't dent that 40%.

    You are disingenuous suggesting Starmer's parity with Johnson in the scoundrel stakes. That is patently untrue unless you can cite his 1001 scandals to match Johnson's.

    The question is, does the Conservative Party come out of Partygate with clean skin? Quite possibly it does. The opposition parties need to apportion blame equally to Johnson and the Conservative Party for accepting his excuses.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Donald Trump: MY NAME IS DONALD TRUMP, I PLAN TO STEAL THE NEXT ELECTION
    *Cut to 2024*
    American Pundits: It is absolutely astounding that Trump has stolen the election, no-one saw it coming. Completely blindsided us.

    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1482355548565745670
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Brief Alistair SA update

    Due to data lag it looks like SA deaths may have peaked in week 52, not now (week 2). When I stopped tracking week 52 they had recorded 704 deaths for the week. Two weeks later and week 52 now stands a 996 deaths.

    This does demonstrate the problem with trying to extrapolate things from SA data.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,152
    On the subject of Hereditary Peers in GOoS, worth remembering Peter Carrington was Defence Secretary for Heath Government, and the spent three years (pre Falklands War) as Foreign Secretary.

    I don't think it is inconceivable that Lord Frost could take on that role from the Lords.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of Hereditary Peers in GOoS, worth remembering Peter Carrington was Defence Secretary for Heath Government, and the spent three years (pre Falklands War) as Foreign Secretary.

    I don't think it is inconceivable that Lord Frost could take on that role from the Lords.

    Apart from his manifest unsuitability for the r...
    Oh I see. Yes.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...

    I disagree. You can't have business as usual as far as the by election goes after an MP has been murdered. No one will read much into the result because of the very specific circumstances so I don't think Johnson will be able to take much comfort from it.
    But that's the point, you can guarantee if it were properly fought you'd get a result you could read something into. Like eastbourne 1990.
    No. Sentiment has changed from Democracy Must Not Be Subverted by the IRA to compassion following the crime trumps all. Neither is right or wrong. Both follow the spirit of an age.

    Labour are currently triumphant but face colossal risks. A Burgon, a Jezza, allowing Diane Abbott on the media, a few anti Israel actions by Labour's anti Semites would place them back where they were. The extreme left never goes away, as jezza's reign proved, it morphs and waits.

    SKS's number 1 priority is avoiding risk. he is right to avoid Southend and the criticism it would attract.

    What I notice is that when asked about Labour's breaking of rules a la Tory ones, their denials are quiet and brief and question averting. They are clearly not sure that discipline has been maintained.

    All politics being relative, while Boris is (I think) finished the Tories are not. They will be be very keen to level the playing field and neutralise the attack in due course by 'they were no better than us' in the bad old Boris days.

    Triumphalists of the centre left might like to check out with Oddschecker the odds on 'Government after Next GE'. The Tory majority are favourites at 15/8. Lab minority 3/1. Lab maj 11/2. Food for thought.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of Hereditary Peers in GOoS, worth remembering Peter Carrington was Defence Secretary for Heath Government, and the spent three years (pre Falklands War) as Foreign Secretary.

    I don't think it is inconceivable that Lord Frost could take on that role from the Lords.

    Peter Carrington was a feudal Tory with gravitas, and an absolute gentleman. Frost, on the other hand is an upstart opportunist.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited January 2022

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    Fishing said:

    Boris Johnson's support was very shallow but I think Starmer's is even more so.

    Both men are dishonest opportunistic charlatans who have sold out any principles they ever had.

    So fairly typical politicians of the Twitter age, sadly.

    The support for the Johnsonisn Conservative Party was anything but shallow. A solid 40 plus points come rain or shine. Even a petrol crisis which scythed down Blair's Labour lead couldn't dent that 40%.

    You are disingenuous suggesting Starmer's parity with Johnson in the scoundrel stakes. That is patently untrue unless you can cite his 1001 scandals to match Johnson's.

    The question is, does the Conservative Party come out of Partygate with clean skin? Quite possibly it does. The opposition parties need to apportion blame equally to Johnson and the Conservative Party for accepting his excuses.

    Yes, he's Mr Bland, but also Mr Clean. Remember donkeygate? That was the best that the Tory press could come up with.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    edited January 2022
    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...

    I disagree. You can't have business as usual as far as the by election goes after an MP has been murdered. No one will read much into the result because of the very specific circumstances so I don't think Johnson will be able to take much comfort from it.
    But that's the point, you can guarantee if it were properly fought you'd get a result you could read something into. Like eastbourne 1990.
    No. Sentiment has changed from Democracy Must Not Be Subverted by the IRA to compassion following the crime trumps all. Neither is right or wrong. Both follow the spirit of an age.

    Labour are currently triumphant but face colossal risks. A Burgon, a Jezza, allowing Diane Abbott on the media, a few anti Israel actions by Labour's anti Semites would place them back where they were. The extreme left never goes away, as jezza's reign proved, it morphs and waits.

    SKS's number 1 priority is avoiding risk. he is right to avoid Southend and the criticism it would attract.

    What I notice is that when asked about Labour's breaking of rules a la Tory ones, their denials are quiet and brief and question averting. They are clearly not sure that discipline has been maintained.

    All politics being relative, while Boris is (I think) finished the Tories are not. They will be be very keen to level the playing field and neutralise the attack in due course by 'they were no better than us' in the bad old Boris days.

    Triumphalists of the centre left might like to check out with Oddschecker the odds on 'Government after Next GE'. The Tory majority are favourites at 15/8. Lab minority 3/1. Lab maj 11/2. Food for thought.

    These would be the markets which called 5 of the 6 English by-elections wrong in 2021?
    There is much in what you say. But who is favourite is about as meaningful as your horoscope.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    Everton, please keep Benitez a bit longer, at least until our match.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...

    I disagree. You can't have business as usual as far as the by election goes after an MP has been murdered. No one will read much into the result because of the very specific circumstances so I don't think Johnson will be able to take much comfort from it.
    But that's the point, you can guarantee if it were properly fought you'd get a result you could read something into. Like eastbourne 1990.
    No. Sentiment has changed from Democracy Must Not Be Subverted by the IRA to compassion following the crime trumps all. Neither is right or wrong. Both follow the spirit of an age.

    Labour are currently triumphant but face colossal risks. A Burgon, a Jezza, allowing Diane Abbott on the media, a few anti Israel actions by Labour's anti Semites would place them back where they were. The extreme left never goes away, as jezza's reign proved, it morphs and waits.

    SKS's number 1 priority is avoiding risk. he is right to avoid Southend and the criticism it would attract.

    What I notice is that when asked about Labour's breaking of rules a la Tory ones, their denials are quiet and brief and question averting. They are clearly not sure that discipline has been maintained.

    All politics being relative, while Boris is (I think) finished the Tories are not. They will be be very keen to level the playing field and neutralise the attack in due course by 'they were no better than us' in the bad old Boris days.

    Triumphalists of the centre left might like to check out with Oddschecker the odds on 'Government after Next GE'. The Tory majority are favourites at 15/8. Lab minority 3/1. Lab maj 11/2. Food for thought.

    Laying Tory majority looks value.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited January 2022
    Sorry but I must make this rebuttal again to the repeated assertion that Johnson's popularity was fake and a consequence of Corbyn being the alternative. To an extent, sure, but it's not by a long chalk the whole explanation or even close to it.

    Back when he was running for Tory leader one of the things that put him in pole position were polls showing he'd beat Corbyn convincingly in a head to head. And the Corbyn he was beating there was not the 'discredited' Corbyn of GE19, it was the Corbyn who was neck & neck with Mrs May in polls and also neck & neck (or better) against the likes of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove, indeed against all the realistic Con alternatives bar one - a certain Boris Johnson.

    The guy was genuinely popular when he became our PM, and much as one might wish to explain this away by reference to Jeremy Corbyn it remains a regrettable fact.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited January 2022
    Foxy said:

    Everton, please keep Benitez a bit longer, at least until our match.

    Lol, you’ve chickened out from playing them TWICE. Maybe not such a smart decision.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited January 2022
    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...

    I disagree. You can't have business as usual as far as the by election goes after an MP has been murdered. No one will read much into the result because of the very specific circumstances so I don't think Johnson will be able to take much comfort from it.
    But that's the point, you can guarantee if it were properly fought you'd get a result you could read something into. Like eastbourne 1990.
    No. Sentiment has changed from Democracy Must Not Be Subverted by the IRA to compassion following the crime trumps all. Neither is right or wrong. Both follow the spirit of an age.

    Labour are currently triumphant but face colossal risks. A Burgon, a Jezza, allowing Diane Abbott on the media, a few anti Israel actions by Labour's anti Semites would place them back where they were. The extreme left never goes away, as jezza's reign proved, it morphs and waits.

    SKS's number 1 priority is avoiding risk. he is right to avoid Southend and the criticism it would attract.

    What I notice is that when asked about Labour's breaking of rules a la Tory ones, their denials are quiet and brief and question averting. They are clearly not sure that discipline has been maintained.

    All politics being relative, while Boris is (I think) finished the Tories are not. They will be be very keen to level the playing field and neutralise the attack in due course by 'they were no better than us' in the bad old Boris days.

    Triumphalists of the centre left might like to check out with Oddschecker the odds on 'Government after Next GE'. The Tory majority are favourites at 15/8. Lab minority 3/1. Lab maj 11/2. Food for thought.

    These would be the markets which called 5 of the 6 English by-elections wrong in 2021?
    There is much in what you say. But who is favourite is about as meaningful as your horoscope.
    Agree entirely - and to a small financial advantage - about bookies getting odds wrong. If they didn't there would be little fun. The point I am making is the same as yours. We have not got a clue about the prevailing conditions at GE time, just as a few months ago we had no idea we would be where we are now.

    It was always true that Boris's wheels would come off. I think they have. But even on that matter, as of now, I wouldn't bet the farm.

    Boris's wheels coming off and Tory wheels ditto are two different things. This is a time when SKS needs to be super cautious. For example he could cause a personal train wreck by giving the merest hint of Labour's actual post GE policy about anything real. Can he hold that for ever? We shall find out.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,152
    kinabalu said:

    Sorry but I must make this rebuttal again to the repeated assertion that Johnson's popularity was fake and a consequence of Corbyn being the alternative. To an extent, sure, but it's not by a long shot the whole explanation.

    Back when he was running for Tory leader one of the things that put him in pole position were polls showing he'd beat Corbyn convincingly in a head to head. And the Corbyn he was beating there was not the 'discredited' Corbyn of GE19, it was the Corbyn who was neck & neck with Mrs May in polls and also neck & neck (or better) against the likes of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove, indeed against all the realistic Con alternatives bar one - a certain Boris Johnson.

    The guy was genuinely popular when he became our PM, and much as one might wish to explain this away by reference to Jeremy Corbyn it remains a regrettable fact.

    While I clicked "Like", it was also very much the case that Corbyn largely prevented LibDem-to-Labour tactical votes, and almost certainly led to a number of Remainer Tories voting Johnson, because they couldn't risk Corbyn.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    The last paragraph in this - https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/07/16/spotting-the-difference-what-really-matters-to-johnson-when-deciding-who-is-in-or-out/
    - reads quite well.


    "Johnson likes to be loved but he likes being feared even more. This can get you far in politics, indeed has got him to the top. When that love fades and the fear goes – and they will, one day – his fall will be worth watching. For those who believe that ruthlessness and ambition, untempered by competence and integrity, are dangerous, that day cannot come soon enough."
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...

    I disagree. You can't have business as usual as far as the by election goes after an MP has been murdered. No one will read much into the result because of the very specific circumstances so I don't think Johnson will be able to take much comfort from it.
    But that's the point, you can guarantee if it were properly fought you'd get a result you could read something into. Like eastbourne 1990.
    No. Sentiment has changed from Democracy Must Not Be Subverted by the IRA to compassion following the crime trumps all. Neither is right or wrong. Both follow the spirit of an age.

    Labour are currently triumphant but face colossal risks. A Burgon, a Jezza, allowing Diane Abbott on the media, a few anti Israel actions by Labour's anti Semites would place them back where they were. The extreme left never goes away, as jezza's reign proved, it morphs and waits.

    SKS's number 1 priority is avoiding risk. he is right to avoid Southend and the criticism it would attract.

    What I notice is that when asked about Labour's breaking of rules a la Tory ones, their denials are quiet and brief and question averting. They are clearly not sure that discipline has been maintained.

    All politics being relative, while Boris is (I think) finished the Tories are not. They will be be very keen to level the playing field and neutralise the attack in due course by 'they were no better than us' in the bad old Boris days.

    Triumphalists of the centre left might like to check out with Oddschecker the odds on 'Government after Next GE'. The Tory majority are favourites at 15/8. Lab minority 3/1. Lab maj 11/2. Food for thought.

    These would be the markets which called 5 of the 6 English by-elections wrong in 2021?
    There is much in what you say. But who is favourite is about as meaningful as your horoscope.
    Agree entirely - and to a small financial advantage - about bookies getting odds wrong. If they didn't there would be little fun. The point I am making is the same as yours. We have not got a clue about the prevailing conditions at GE time, just as a few months ago we had no idea we would be where we are now.

    It was always true that Boris's wheels would come off. I think they have. But even on that matter, as of now, I wouldn't bet the farm.

    Boris's wheels coming off and Tory wheels ditto are two different things. This is a time when SKS needs to be super cautious. For example he could cause a personal train wreck by giving the merest hint of Labour's actual post GE policy about anything real. Can he hold that for ever? We shall find out.
    Food for piling on. I am a mug, fearful and incompetent punter, and even I find politics betting consistently profitable. Those odds don't say what the polls say. Why not?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry but I must make this rebuttal again to the repeated assertion that Johnson's popularity was fake and a consequence of Corbyn being the alternative. To an extent, sure, but it's not by a long shot the whole explanation.

    Back when he was running for Tory leader one of the things that put him in pole position were polls showing he'd beat Corbyn convincingly in a head to head. And the Corbyn he was beating there was not the 'discredited' Corbyn of GE19, it was the Corbyn who was neck & neck with Mrs May in polls and also neck & neck (or better) against the likes of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove, indeed against all the realistic Con alternatives bar one - a certain Boris Johnson.

    The guy was genuinely popular when he became our PM, and much as one might wish to explain this away by reference to Jeremy Corbyn it remains a regrettable fact.

    While I clicked "Like", it was also very much the case that Corbyn largely prevented LibDem-to-Labour tactical votes, and almost certainly led to a number of Remainer Tories voting Johnson, because they couldn't risk Corbyn.
    Looked at another way: In 2019 all the Brexit types had an easy and obvious vote. Remainers had no vote to make at all.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    Sounds like it's Downing Street's loss that you didn't get the gig.
    That applies on so many levels!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Terrible decision to stand aside after Amess. Might have looked reasonable at the time, but events, dear boy...

    I disagree. You can't have business as usual as far as the by election goes after an MP has been murdered. No one will read much into the result because of the very specific circumstances so I don't think Johnson will be able to take much comfort from it.
    But that's the point, you can guarantee if it were properly fought you'd get a result you could read something into. Like eastbourne 1990.
    No. Sentiment has changed from Democracy Must Not Be Subverted by the IRA to compassion following the crime trumps all. Neither is right or wrong. Both follow the spirit of an age.

    Labour are currently triumphant but face colossal risks. A Burgon, a Jezza, allowing Diane Abbott on the media, a few anti Israel actions by Labour's anti Semites would place them back where they were. The extreme left never goes away, as jezza's reign proved, it morphs and waits.

    SKS's number 1 priority is avoiding risk. he is right to avoid Southend and the criticism it would attract.

    What I notice is that when asked about Labour's breaking of rules a la Tory ones, their denials are quiet and brief and question averting. They are clearly not sure that discipline has been maintained.

    All politics being relative, while Boris is (I think) finished the Tories are not. They will be be very keen to level the playing field and neutralise the attack in due course by 'they were no better than us' in the bad old Boris days.

    Triumphalists of the centre left might like to check out with Oddschecker the odds on 'Government after Next GE'. The Tory majority are favourites at 15/8. Lab minority 3/1. Lab maj 11/2. Food for thought.

    Laying Tory majority looks value.
    Maybe. But I feel if there is value here it is Lab minority at 3/1. I think I'm keeping out for now - lived too long, seen too much! But enjoying the ride.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Cyclefree said:

    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    Sounds like it's Downing Street's loss that you didn't get the gig.
    That applies on so many levels!
    A department store of disappointment?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
    I think there is deadly danger for the Tories in appointing anyone directly associated with this current government. Rishi has to decide whether to get out quick now or run the risk of being damaged goods. IMHO Hunt and Tugendhat look interesting.

    NB Hunt, Tugendhat and Rishi are Charterhouse, St Paul's and Harrow respectively. Plus ca change!

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    Boris Johnson's support was very shallow but I think Starmer's is even more so.

    Both men are dishonest opportunistic charlatans who have sold out any principles they ever had.

    So fairly typical politicians of the Twitter age, sadly.

    The support for the Johnsonisn Conservative Party was anything but shallow. A solid 40 plus points come rain or shine. Even a petrol crisis which scythed down Blair's Labour lead couldn't dent that 40%.

    You are disingenuous suggesting Starmer's parity with Johnson in the scoundrel stakes. That is patently untrue unless you can cite his 1001 scandals to match Johnson's.

    The question is, does the Conservative Party come out of Partygate with clean skin? Quite possibly it does. The opposition parties need to apportion blame equally to Johnson and the Conservative Party for accepting his excuses.

    Yes, he's Mr Bland, but also Mr Clean. Remember donkeygate? That was the best that the Tory press could come up with.
    And even that showed him in an even better light. Noble lover of noble animals. And no Kabul nonsense.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Interesting thread

    In 2019 I wrote a piece for the @NewStatesman on "The Closing of the Conservative Mind". I argued that Conservatism had become intellectually rudderless & incapable of serious thinking about policy. Johnson's rise was a symptom of that crisis, & it will survive his fall. [THREAD]
    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1482362175444471809
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1482310328436285440

    Especially this bit

    3.This is where Johnson's "boosterism" differs from, say, "Thatcherism".

    Thatcherism (love it or hate it) was a serious policy programme. "Boosterism" is a state of mind:a vague call to "believe in Britain".

    It's politics as faith-healing, driven by the power of personal belief



    None of the potential candidates can take over the Church of BoZo. They will have to come up with a solid policy platform instead. At which point they are fucked.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
    The Tories only reach 34% even under a Sunak leadership with Opinium, hence they would not even get a bounce in the May locals but a loss given the Tories got 35% last time they were up.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1475566541273980929?s=20

    However next year 34% would still be a bounce given the Tories only got 28% in the 2019 locals
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Whether Cummings has further ammunition on Johnson is a major worry https://trib.al/l0PwQU9
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
    I think there is deadly danger for the Tories in appointing anyone directly associated with this current government. Rishi has to decide whether to get out quick now or run the risk of being damaged goods. IMHO Hunt and Tugendhat look interesting.

    NB Hunt, Tugendhat and Rishi are Charterhouse, St Paul's and Harrow respectively. Plus ca change!

    Rishi is a Wykehamist.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    kinabalu said:

    Sorry but I must make this rebuttal again to the repeated assertion that Johnson's popularity was fake and a consequence of Corbyn being the alternative. To an extent, sure, but it's not by a long chalk the whole explanation or even close to it.

    Back when he was running for Tory leader one of the things that put him in pole position were polls showing he'd beat Corbyn convincingly in a head to head. And the Corbyn he was beating there was not the 'discredited' Corbyn of GE19, it was the Corbyn who was neck & neck with Mrs May in polls and also neck & neck (or better) against the likes of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove, indeed against all the realistic Con alternatives bar one - a certain Boris Johnson.

    The guy was genuinely popular when he became our PM, and much as one might wish to explain this away by reference to Jeremy Corbyn it remains a regrettable fact.

    Sorry, but it’s too easy to rebutt your rebuttal Kinabalu! Firstly the polling stats Mike Smithson keeps posting, how voters say they voted anti Corbyn not pro Boris should be conclusive on its own, because it’s not even close. Before that, with his crude racist remarks and harsh treatment of the remainer big hitters, thrown out a party they had served all their life for rebelling just once, Boris was not popular in or out his party even before the election.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Official figures show the UK has recorded 81,713 COVID cases and 287 new COVID-related deaths in latest 24-hour period

    For more on this and other news visit http://news.sky.com
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Conservative leader of Wiltshire Council, cllr Richard Clewer, tells Sky News that "whenever you've got a work event and people start opening a bottle of wine, it's no longer a work event".

    Read more: https://trib.al/LDygnnl

    📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1482382662597812233/video/1
  • Not sure on the wisdom of Sir Keir's calling for Boris to resign. That runs the risk of turning it tribal. The Tories will rally around Boris, and when he then doesn't resign it will feel like a kind of Labour defeat. This happened with IDS and the Iraq shenanigans. In the end everyone was concentrating more on IDS's haplessness and his inability to land a blow than on Tone's misdemeanours. Moreover, Boris's allies in the media will now decide it's open season Sir Keir and will be digging up all sorts of dubious lockdown behaviour by Labour MPs, spuriously or otherwise. Sir Keir should have kept his distance.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry but I must make this rebuttal again to the repeated assertion that Johnson's popularity was fake and a consequence of Corbyn being the alternative. To an extent, sure, but it's not by a long shot the whole explanation.

    Back when he was running for Tory leader one of the things that put him in pole position were polls showing he'd beat Corbyn convincingly in a head to head. And the Corbyn he was beating there was not the 'discredited' Corbyn of GE19, it was the Corbyn who was neck & neck with Mrs May in polls and also neck & neck (or better) against the likes of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove, indeed against all the realistic Con alternatives bar one - a certain Boris Johnson.

    The guy was genuinely popular when he became our PM, and much as one might wish to explain this away by reference to Jeremy Corbyn it remains a regrettable fact.

    While I clicked "Like", it was also very much the case that Corbyn largely prevented LibDem-to-Labour tactical votes, and almost certainly led to a number of Remainer Tories voting Johnson, because they couldn't risk Corbyn.
    Looked at another way: In 2019 all the Brexit types had an easy and obvious vote. Remainers had no vote to make at all.
    Not quite. If the centre left + remain centre right had coalesced tactically they would have walked it. And it was obvious that LD, Lab, Green and SNP were all votes for Remain/soft Brexit.

    Post referendum the remain camp were never beaten, they beat themselves. And with it went the sane solution of Norway for Now. Bonkers.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative leader of Wiltshire Council, cllr Richard Clewer, tells Sky News that "whenever you've got a work event and people start opening a bottle of wine, it's no longer a work event".

    Read more: https://trib.al/LDygnnl

    📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1482382662597812233/video/1

    This is like the few decent GOP minor officials and state representatives who said, no, Trump is wrong, the election was fair, there are no fake or missing votes and Biden won.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Not sure on the wisdom of Sir Keir's calling for Boris to resign. That runs the risk of turning it tribal.

    Tory MPs are on the news saying the same thing.

    53% of ConHome members agree
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    The scope of "forever" just shortened pretty considerably. HYUFD folded last night, no Tory government for the next decade, because Dom.
    Tremendous post by HY when he finally caved in. I’m looking forward to him caving in on the human face stamping strategy too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited January 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been on a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    JohnO said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
    I think there is deadly danger for the Tories in appointing anyone directly associated with this current government. Rishi has to decide whether to get out quick now or run the risk of being damaged goods. IMHO Hunt and Tugendhat look interesting.

    NB Hunt, Tugendhat and Rishi are Charterhouse, St Paul's and Harrow respectively. Plus ca change!

    Rishi is a Wykehamist.
    Mea culpa

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Dutch lockdown watch: from today, the lucky people of the Netherlands may visit gyms, hairdressers and non-essential shops. But only until 5pm. This follows on from the grand re-opening of schools on Monday. Aren't they lucky?

    Meanwhile, according to the helpful updates provided by ourworldindata.org, their Omicron casedemic continues to track that of the UK with an approximate 2.5 week lag. Indeed, it looks likely that, when today's stats are updated, the Dutch and UK numbers will achieve crossover and they'll go ahead of us.

    Panic lockdown for a month, followed by a miserable slow crawl out the other side: this is the kind of policy that a lot of people were jumping up and down and screaming for in this country before Christmas. And it's been a dreadful failure.

    This experience has been a disaster for the Dutch people, but we should also be thankful for their sacrifice. If nobody had tried a lockdown against Omicron then the iSAGE tendency would doubtless have continued to insist that not doing it was a missed opportunity, that a "circuit breaker" would've relieved the pressure on the NHS, and so on and so forth. As it is, we now know that this tactic is useless and any further appeals for it can be disregarded. Thank God.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Scott_xP said:

    Whether Cummings has further ammunition on Johnson is a major worry https://trib.al/l0PwQU9

    Which if nothing else, tells us that they still haven't been open and honest, admitting and apologising only for what we already know.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Not sure on the wisdom of Sir Keir's calling for Boris to resign. That runs the risk of turning it tribal. The Tories will rally around Boris, and when he then doesn't resign it will feel like a kind of Labour defeat. This happened with IDS and the Iraq shenanigans. In the end everyone was concentrating more on IDS's haplessness and his inability to land a blow than on Tone's misdemeanours. Moreover, Boris's allies in the media will now decide it's open season Sir Keir and will be digging up all sorts of dubious lockdown behaviour by Labour MPs, spuriously or otherwise. Sir Keir should have kept his distance.

    Not sure. In the circumstances it looks more tactical not to, as the failure is egregious. If Boris does, SKS wins, if he is chucked out, ditto, if he stays SKS will have a decent chance to beat him, and renders himself immune from internal attack (which was happening quite recently, though we have all forgotten).

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    IanB2 said:

    Which if nothing else, tells us that they still haven't been open and honest, admitting and apologising only for what we already know.

    Indeed
  • Infections falling fast now:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    Conservative politicians should be talking about how they made the right decisions about Omicron and how the economy and society benefitted from it while demanding the removal of all remaining restrictions.

    Instead they're having to deal with the consequences of stupidity and immaturity from Downing Street.

    Ironic isn't it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
    The Tories only reach 34% even under a Sunak leadership with Opinium, hence they would not even get a bounce in the May locals but a loss given the Tories got 35% last time they were up.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1475566541273980929?s=20

    However next year 34% would still be a bounce given the Tories only got 28% in the 2019 locals
    You are sure the not for real question in an old opinium poll trumps the reality someone getting hustings oxygen of publicity, then the crown put on their head?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Everton, please keep Benitez a bit longer, at least until our match.

    Lol, you’ve chickened out from playing them TWICE. Maybe not such a smart decision.
    Did you see our unusual formation in the FA Cup?

    It was 1:9:0 with one recognised defender, 9 midfielders (including several youth players) and no striker.

    Fielding a fit team is a real problem at the moment, as Arsenal is finding too. The League is quite a farce this year.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited January 2022
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been a a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
    "London is back" is back.
    I see that ""London is back" is back" is back
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    algarkirk said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry but I must make this rebuttal again to the repeated assertion that Johnson's popularity was fake and a consequence of Corbyn being the alternative. To an extent, sure, but it's not by a long shot the whole explanation.

    Back when he was running for Tory leader one of the things that put him in pole position were polls showing he'd beat Corbyn convincingly in a head to head. And the Corbyn he was beating there was not the 'discredited' Corbyn of GE19, it was the Corbyn who was neck & neck with Mrs May in polls and also neck & neck (or better) against the likes of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove, indeed against all the realistic Con alternatives bar one - a certain Boris Johnson.

    The guy was genuinely popular when he became our PM, and much as one might wish to explain this away by reference to Jeremy Corbyn it remains a regrettable fact.

    While I clicked "Like", it was also very much the case that Corbyn largely prevented LibDem-to-Labour tactical votes, and almost certainly led to a number of Remainer Tories voting Johnson, because they couldn't risk Corbyn.
    Looked at another way: In 2019 all the Brexit types had an easy and obvious vote. Remainers had no vote to make at all.
    Not quite. If the centre left + remain centre right had coalesced tactically they would have walked it. And it was obvious that LD, Lab, Green and SNP were all votes for Remain/soft Brexit.

    Post referendum the remain camp were never beaten, they beat themselves. And with it went the sane solution of Norway for Now. Bonkers.

    Coalesced about what though?

    The Remain campaign forced the issue of Brexit to be the only issue for many months after it really wasn't. So in 2019 at the GE you had - Tory (let's get on) vs Others (toys out of the pram and nothing to offer)

    I can't see really that it was much other than that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
    The Tories only reach 34% even under a Sunak leadership with Opinium, hence they would not even get a bounce in the May locals but a loss given the Tories got 35% last time they were up.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1475566541273980929?s=20

    However next year 34% would still be a bounce given the Tories only got 28% in the 2019 locals
    You are sure the not for real question in an old opinium poll trumps the reality someone getting hustings oxygen of publicity, then the crown put on their head?
    Even Brown and May got a brief bounce, bounces themselves do not last. Longer term polling is more reflective
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Not sure on the wisdom of Sir Keir's calling for Boris to resign. That runs the risk of turning it tribal. The Tories will rally around Boris, and when he then doesn't resign it will feel like a kind of Labour defeat. This happened with IDS and the Iraq shenanigans. In the end everyone was concentrating more on IDS's haplessness and his inability to land a blow than on Tone's misdemeanours. Moreover, Boris's allies in the media will now decide it's open season Sir Keir and will be digging up all sorts of dubious lockdown behaviour by Labour MPs, spuriously or otherwise. Sir Keir should have kept his distance.

    I think he had to call for it at least once. The general outrage of most of the country essentially demanded it.

    But anything subsequently repeating the same thing, yes, begins to work against him rather than for him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited January 2022
    pigeon said:

    Dutch lockdown watch: from today, the lucky people of the Netherlands may visit gyms, hairdressers and non-essential shops. But only until 5pm. This follows on from the grand re-opening of schools on Monday. Aren't they lucky?

    Meanwhile, according to the helpful updates provided by ourworldindata.org, their Omicron casedemic continues to track that of the UK with an approximate 2.5 week lag. Indeed, it looks likely that, when today's stats are updated, the Dutch and UK numbers will achieve crossover and they'll go ahead of us.

    Panic lockdown for a month, followed by a miserable slow crawl out the other side: this is the kind of policy that a lot of people were jumping up and down and screaming for in this country before Christmas. And it's been a dreadful failure.

    This experience has been a disaster for the Dutch people, but we should also be thankful for their sacrifice. If nobody had tried a lockdown against Omicron then the iSAGE tendency would doubtless have continued to insist that not doing it was a missed opportunity, that a "circuit breaker" would've relieved the pressure on the NHS, and so on and so forth. As it is, we now know that this tactic is useless and any further appeals for it can be disregarded. Thank God.

    And all the scientists and politicians that called for it must be asked to explain themselves. They cannot slink away into the shadows. They nearly fucked us all mentally, once again, for absolutely no reason

    There must be a reckoning. Nothing punitive, but we need answers and - if needs be - apologies
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been a a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
    "London is back" is back.
    Everyone knows its no Elgin though.
  • Chris said:

    Just trust him. He'll lead the party to the appropriate place.

    Across the River Styx.
    Charon should examine any coins proferred for the fare very carefully indeed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    The scope of "forever" just shortened pretty considerably. HYUFD folded last night, no Tory government for the next decade, because Dom.
    Tremendous post by HY when he finally caved in. I’m looking forward to him caving in on the human face stamping strategy too.
    As I also said this morning even if it takes two decades for the next Tory government it would still refuse indyref2 when the party returns to power.

    Starmer would also refuse an indyref2 in favour of a Brown grand commission on devomax and a Federal UK unless the SNP hold the balance of power in a hung parliament. Expect Alba to grow further as a result
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    Infections falling fast now:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    Conservative politicians should be talking about how they made the right decisions about Omicron and how the economy and society benefitted from it while demanding the removal of all remaining restrictions.

    Instead they're having to deal with the consequences of stupidity and immaturity from Downing Street.

    Ironic isn't it.

    If he falls, then it is positively Shakespearean. The tragedy of the character flaws that led to own self-destruction.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been a a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
    "London is back" is back.
    Everyone knows its no Elgin though.
    Or Wick.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry but I must make this rebuttal again to the repeated assertion that Johnson's popularity was fake and a consequence of Corbyn being the alternative. To an extent, sure, but it's not by a long shot the whole explanation.

    Back when he was running for Tory leader one of the things that put him in pole position were polls showing he'd beat Corbyn convincingly in a head to head. And the Corbyn he was beating there was not the 'discredited' Corbyn of GE19, it was the Corbyn who was neck & neck with Mrs May in polls and also neck & neck (or better) against the likes of Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove, indeed against all the realistic Con alternatives bar one - a certain Boris Johnson.

    The guy was genuinely popular when he became our PM, and much as one might wish to explain this away by reference to Jeremy Corbyn it remains a regrettable fact.

    While I clicked "Like", it was also very much the case that Corbyn largely prevented LibDem-to-Labour tactical votes, and almost certainly led to a number of Remainer Tories voting Johnson, because they couldn't risk Corbyn.
    Yes, for sure. And by the time of the Dec GE Johnson had consolidated that Leave vote with his Brexit rhetoric & focus and also picked up plenty of non-Leavers who were sick of the impasse and wanted it over. Fwiw, and with ridiculous false precision, I think Johnson v Not Corbyn would have been C30 as would Not Johnson v Corbyn. The C80 was thus by equal measure a consequence both of Johnson's genuine allure (man and message) and Corbyn's genuine repulsion.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Infections falling fast now:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    Conservative politicians should be talking about how they made the right decisions about Omicron and how the economy and society benefitted from it while demanding the removal of all remaining restrictions.

    Instead they're having to deal with the consequences of stupidity and immaturity from Downing Street.

    Ironic isn't it.

    Hospital admissions now edging down, nationally, as well

    We are following South Africa quite closely. A sharp spike in cases, almost vertically up and down, then a more gentle descent in hospital admits, and then - we hope - deaths

    And the hospital cases are way less serious
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    I guess it is a sign of the change in zeitgeist that no-one is obsessing over the daily COVID numbers the moment they are released any more. Absent a further unexpected twist in the COVID saga, it looks like the 2-year winter is coming to a close, just as we hit a frigid patch here in DC (18F today, or -8C, with a wind chill that makes it feel like it's in the single digits).

    The other good news is that, despite being chased away by a red-tailed hawk yesterday, one of the bald eagles is back again today.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Not sure on the wisdom of Sir Keir's calling for Boris to resign. That runs the risk of turning it tribal. The Tories will rally around Boris, and when he then doesn't resign it will feel like a kind of Labour defeat. This happened with IDS and the Iraq shenanigans. In the end everyone was concentrating more on IDS's haplessness and his inability to land a blow than on Tone's misdemeanours. Moreover, Boris's allies in the media will now decide it's open season Sir Keir and will be digging up all sorts of dubious lockdown behaviour by Labour MPs, spuriously or otherwise. Sir Keir should have kept his distance.

    I was in a very small minority, making that point on here just after PMQs. The LotO calling on the PM to resign, has the effect of rallying many Tories who were on the fence, to avoid giving Sir Keir the satisfaction.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    Scott_xP said:

    Official figures show the UK has recorded 81,713 COVID cases and 287 new COVID-related deaths in latest 24-hour period

    For more on this and other news visit http://news.sky.com

    Lowest cases by report date for exactly 1 month. Falling quite quickly now.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
    The Tories only reach 34% even under a Sunak leadership with Opinium, hence they would not even get a bounce in the May locals but a loss given the Tories got 35% last time they were up.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1475566541273980929?s=20

    However next year 34% would still be a bounce given the Tories only got 28% in the 2019 locals
    You are sure the not for real question in an old opinium poll trumps the reality someone getting hustings oxygen of publicity, then the crown put on their head?
    Even Brown and May got a brief bounce, bounces themselves do not last. Longer term polling is more reflective
    So now you are conceding Rishi WILL give his party polling bounce in Mays locals if installed in time, and how long it lasts in bau no one knows? That is a fair way of looking at it, I agree.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Infections falling fast now:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    Conservative politicians should be talking about how they made the right decisions about Omicron and how the economy and society benefitted from it while demanding the removal of all remaining restrictions.

    Instead they're having to deal with the consequences of stupidity and immaturity from Downing Street.

    Ironic isn't it.

    Yet that plank jn Wales called it a ‘dangerous experiment’.

    The Welsh and Scottish administrations got it wrong and sacrificed their hospitality industry at the critical time of year for those businesses to own the Tories. They failed. The press needs to hold them to account.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been a a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
    "London is back" is back.
    I see that ""London is back" is back" is back
    They're just spending up their savings, before the aliens return to Tooting
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    edited January 2022
    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    Sounds like it's Downing Street's loss that you didn't get the gig.
    I think that calling Lulu Lytle a 'ghastly character' is unfair and rather unkind of @Cyclefree. Regardless of your thoughts on her design flair (or lack of it), she seems from the video below to be rather nice; it's hardly her fault she has been patronised by Carrie and Boris.

    https://youtu.be/gtW6fgrUIMI

    Furthermore, British interior design is rightly admired the world over, so I am not sure why having Italian ancestry, lovely though that is, automatically qualifies you as an arbiter of good interior style.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been a a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
    "London is back" is back.
    Everyone knows its no Elgin though.
    Or Wick.
    Don't be so hard on yourself. The debate where we seriously argued the greater qualities of London versus Wick was one of my favourite examples of Peak Scot Nit Nuttiness
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK cases by specimen data

    image
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Sandpit said:

    Not sure on the wisdom of Sir Keir's calling for Boris to resign. That runs the risk of turning it tribal. The Tories will rally around Boris, and when he then doesn't resign it will feel like a kind of Labour defeat. This happened with IDS and the Iraq shenanigans. In the end everyone was concentrating more on IDS's haplessness and his inability to land a blow than on Tone's misdemeanours. Moreover, Boris's allies in the media will now decide it's open season Sir Keir and will be digging up all sorts of dubious lockdown behaviour by Labour MPs, spuriously or otherwise. Sir Keir should have kept his distance.

    I was in a very small minority, making that point on here just after PMQs. The LotO calling on the PM to resign, has the effect of rallying many Tories who were on the fence, to avoid giving Sir Keir the satisfaction.
    Which may actually be quite wise, politically, keeping a busted flush in charge.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been a a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
    "London is back" is back.
    Everyone knows its no Elgin though.
    Or Wick.
    Don't be so hard on yourself. The debate where we seriously argued the greater qualities of London versus Wick was one of my favourite examples of Peak Scot Nit Nuttiness
    Itd's not so much that London does have qualities as that you couldn't see Wick's very real qualities! I was genuinely surprised - normally you are very good at seeking out the interesting stuff.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK cases by specimen date scaled to 100K

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK local R

    image
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Infections falling fast now:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    Conservative politicians should be talking about how they made the right decisions about Omicron and how the economy and society benefitted from it while demanding the removal of all remaining restrictions.

    Instead they're having to deal with the consequences of stupidity and immaturity from Downing Street.

    Ironic isn't it.

    If he falls, then it is positively Shakespearean. The tragedy of the character flaws that led to own self-destruction.

    I was thinking that, and ditto Shagger Windsor.

    Much scope for debate whether it's character flaws or mistaken actions or a bit of both
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK case summary

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,152
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been on a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
    Counter-example: on Wednesday evening two friends and I ate at Dishoom by Covent Garden. Normally there's a 100 person queue outside. We didn't need to queue at all.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    edited January 2022
    Hospitals

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been a a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
    "London is back" is back.
    I see that ""London is back" is back" is back
    They're just spending up their savings, before the aliens return to Tooting
    Surprised no one suggested it was the lizards escaping the earth before their take over plan is tainted by their association with this government.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited January 2022
    TimT said:

    I guess it is a sign of the change in zeitgeist that no-one is obsessing over the daily COVID numbers the moment they are released any more. Absent a further unexpected twist in the COVID saga, it looks like the 2-year winter is coming to a close, just as we hit a frigid patch here in DC (18F today, or -8C, with a wind chill that makes it feel like it's in the single digits).

    The other good news is that, despite being chased away by a red-tailed hawk yesterday, one of the bald eagles is back again today.

    In London it feels like people - certainly the young - have absolutely abandoned any fear of Covid. They wear masks in shops but it is absurdist interactive theatre, like the audience joining in a knowing charade, a pantomime of the populace, because everyone then crowds into cafes, pubs and restaurants and there are no masks at all

    It's fucking brilliant. Is this over now? "The long 2 year winter" as you aptly describe it?

    I am still making burnt offerings at the altar of Covid Hubris, but the auguries are.... hopeful
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
    The Tories only reach 34% even under a Sunak leadership with Opinium, hence they would not even get a bounce in the May locals but a loss given the Tories got 35% last time they were up.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1475566541273980929?s=20

    However next year 34% would still be a bounce given the Tories only got 28% in the 2019 locals
    You are sure the not for real question in an old opinium poll trumps the reality someone getting hustings oxygen of publicity, then the crown put on their head?
    Even Brown and May got a brief bounce, bounces themselves do not last. Longer term polling is more reflective
    So now you are conceding Rishi WILL give his party polling bounce in Mays locals if installed in time, and how long it lasts in bau no one knows? That is a fair way of looking at it, I agree.
    No, he would see a loss of seats and votes given the 34% he polls in the hypothetical poll is less than the 35% the Tories got in 2018. A poor start.

    However 34% would still be an improvement on the 28% in 2019. A Starmer leadership at this stage would be less about trying to still win the next general election but more about trying to save the furniture. Therefore converting the Labour majority government polls forecast now into a Labour minority government in a hung parliament and saving some Tory MPs seats
  • HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    The scope of "forever" just shortened pretty considerably. HYUFD folded last night, no Tory government for the next decade, because Dom.
    Tremendous post by HY when he finally caved in. I’m looking forward to him caving in on the human face stamping strategy too.
    As I also said this morning even if it takes two decades for the next Tory government it would still refuse indyref2 when the party returns to power.

    Starmer would also refuse an indyref2 in favour of a Brown grand commission on devomax and a Federal UK unless the SNP hold the balance of power in a hung parliament. Expect Alba to grow further as a result
    I believe I asked you this previously but answer came there none: if Tory Unionists and their sock puppets have chanted endlessly ‘a once in a generation referendum’ for the last 8 years, what does refusing a referendum 28 years later do to this cornerstone of Yoon orthodoxy?

    What are your expectations for Alba growth in the upcoming locals?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Deaths

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much than 8 weeks till coronation of Sunak, that’s a bounce in time for the Locals. The have to wait till locals argument is dead in a ditch.

    The general election is 2 years away at least, no need to rush.

    Waiting until the locals at least gives Boris the chance to recover a bit after ending the remaining Covid restrictions etc. If he doesn't then a change can be made.

    Given the NEV in the 2018 locals saw the Tories on 35% while the NEV in 2019 saw the Tories on only 28% anyway, a new leader is more likely to get a bounce translating into the locals next year when the 2019 council seats are up again. This year it is the 2018 locals up again
    So you concede Rishi likely to be crowned in about 8 weeks from now if the letters go in this weekend, so the party takes new leader new government bounce into the May ballots?

    All you seem to be asking for is give Boris just a little bit more time? So There is no reason the leadership candidates should wait.
    The Tories only reach 34% even under a Sunak leadership with Opinium, hence they would not even get a bounce in the May locals but a loss given the Tories got 35% last time they were up.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1475566541273980929?s=20

    However next year 34% would still be a bounce given the Tories only got 28% in the 2019 locals
    You are sure the not for real question in an old opinium poll trumps the reality someone getting hustings oxygen of publicity, then the crown put on their head?
    Even Brown and May got a brief bounce, bounces themselves do not last. Longer term polling is more reflective
    So now you are conceding Rishi WILL give his party polling bounce in Mays locals if installed in time, and how long it lasts in bau no one knows? That is a fair way of looking at it, I agree.
    No, he would see a loss of sears and votes given the 34% he polls in the hypothetical poll is less than the 35% the Tories got in 2018. A poor start.

    However 34% would still be an improvement on the 28% in 2019. A Starmer leadership at this stage would be less about trying to still win the next general election but more about trying to save the furniture. Therefore converting the Labour majority government polls forecast now into a Labour minority government in a hung parliament and saving some Tory MPs seats
    But? That’s back to where we started before we made progress in discussion 🤷‍♀️
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I can report that John Lewis, Brent X, is alive and kicking.

    Also for @Farooq from the previous thread, my home is infinitely more elegant and, importantly, comfortable than anything that ghastly Lulu character will have dreamt up. One of the many advantages of having an elegant Italian mother is developing a good eye for clothes, shoes, handbags and interior decoration.

    Of course if you want something that looks like a headache-inducing brothel I am not your woman. But I think you've probably guessed that by now

    Even more than Corbyn Boris needs to be told by Starmer to get a suit and shirts that fit him and to brush his hair. He looks a disgrace. It is pathetic in a man of his age.

    I've just been on a day-tour of north London - taking my older daughter to get jab number 2, then visiting the site of the Battle of Barnet - it was very nearby and I am watching The White Queen on Amazon Prime - then went into Chipping Barnet, then a gastropub lunch in East Finchley, then Hampstead and then Camden

    Everywhere is RAMMED. I haven't seen London this lively in yonks. Most pubs are pleasantly full - people were QUEUEING to get into the Spaniard's by Kenwood, the markets are chocka, shops are bustling, high streets are crowded. The UK economy has bounced back to pre-pandemic size this last quarter and it actually feels like it. Like normality plus an extra sense of relief that this winter is so much better than the last, and that Covid might finally be effing off

    We could be in for an economic boomlet, despite the threat of inflation etc, simple from the sheer animal spirits that will be unleashed as we are uncaged. It definitely felt that way today in the Smoke

    Yay
    Counter-example: on Wednesday evening two friends and I ate at Dishoom by Covent Garden. Normally there's a 100 person queue outside. We didn't need to queue at all.
    Central London won't recover until WFH is abandoned AND the international tourists return. Could be a while, I fear

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    I really really really hope the tories leave Johnson in place.

    It wasn't ever thus but now I know he's irredeemably toxic.
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