Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
You sound almost un-hostile to him...
I've been singing Sunak's praises on here ever since he saved the company I was working for at the time with furlough and loans. Literally saved it and everyone's jobs. And have tipped him not just to run for leader but why he can win the next election for the Tories.
I am not viscerally hostile to the Tories. All parties have good and bad people and do good and bad things. This government under this clown with the cretins like Braverman and Dorries in the cabinet make Brown's final year in office look good.
Ha ha - I was being very slightly tongue in cheek; I know you're not totally tribal. Still, I do find your level of enthusiasm for a Tory - even this Tory - surprising. FWIW, I agree with you. I think Sunak will play much better in the Red Wall than HYUFD thinks, for the reasons Big G succinctly spells out (as well as the reason you spell out).
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Labour majoring on Boris’s previous faux anger at how his staff had flouted the rules, and supposed surprise that these parties had been going on. “He lied to parliament” is the line.
It's a good tactic. Lying to Commons is very serious. Well, normally it is. With Johnson it's just the cost of doing business every day.
He has blustered and bluffed his way through various other times he has lied to parliament. Sooner or later its so blatant that a gleeful Speaker will have him thrown out of the House. This might be that occasion.
Perhaps Labour could table a motion "This House believes the Prime Minister has lied to the House"
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
I didn't realise there were so many Red Wall voters in Epping to give you such expertise. Are you getting confused because the Central Line is red?
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
You mean, in stark contrast to the rigorous and clearly defined doctrine which is Borisism?
Well quite. It may begin to emerge that the problem wasn't Boris at all.
Stronger point if we had a handle on Starmerism
I think we can safely say it's soft-left Blairism without Blair.
The without Blair bit sounds good.
Tbf no one in the Starmer team is ever going to utter the B-word.
Astonishing how sour that sweet brand has become. For many years the man glided round the planet like a demi-god. Now people rate him like dog goo you can’t quite wipe off your favourite shoe.
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
He bestrides the commons, bestrides a podium (though a little robotically) but can filibuster serenely through the toughest interviews.
More important he will replace Boris insane economic and financial back of fag packet policies with something much more credible.
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
A competent pair of hands holding sane and fair and convincing policies. What the hands are connected to are irrelevant.
And I’m a Libdem and I suspect your dig at Sunak is from Labour supporter upset about the Tories pressing game changer button just as you thought Labour have started having fun at long last?
Yes but. I have no doubt Sunak would be an improvement on the current incumbent as far as a total lack of ludicrosity. But there is the danger that not Boris is answering the wrong question. Just as Brown as not Blair. And Boris as not May. "Sane and fair and convincing policies"? I see no evidence of those. If they exist, what are they? Specifically?
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
We had this discussion last week or the week before if you remember. HYUFD constantly likes to tell us how other people will think, act and vote whether it is Tory faithful in the Home Counties or Working Class Red Wallers in the North. In fact he has absolutely no insight into how these people will vote or what they believe (Edit: and nor do the rest of us to a large extent). The only thing he knows are his own views which he consistently tries to project onto others.
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
I didn't realise there were so many Red Wall voters in Epping to give you such expertise. Are you getting confused because the Central Line is red?
It is not difficult to observe the fact RedWall voters voted for Brown, Ed Miliband and even Corbyn in 2017. I could observe that from Pluto.
The only Tory leader they have ever voted for was Boris. If Sunak offers them austerity and tax rises they will vote Labour again
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
This post from an apparent Tory supporter on ConHome sums things up rather nicely:
The people who have always hated Boris, who always wanted him to fail, are no more numerous now than they were the day he won the Tory leadership or the day he won his 80-seat majority. They are not his problem.
His problem is the many other people who were once desperate for him to replace Theresa May, who were happy for him to be given his chance, who hoped very much that he would prove his critics wrong and be a successful PM, and who now feel wretchedly let down by a man who has done far too little to advance things they want, and is far to keen on things they don't want. In short, people who now regard him as an A1 counter-productive political liability. I leave alone his manifest inability to perform the most elementary functions of the premiership, something on which the whole country can probably agree.
Goodness knows, we have had more than enough lousy PMs in the recent past. All of them, bar Boris, at least had sufficient nous to avoid turning their wallpaper into a political scandal.
Reportedly Oscar Wilde's famous last words were, "This wallpaper and I are fighting a duel to the death. Either it goes or I do." When the final whistle was blown the score was,
Wallpaper 1 Wilde 0.
If the wallpaper was able to inflict defeat on someone with Wilde's towering abilities, what conceivable chance of survival does Boris have against a decorative mural adversary?
It's just under 4 weeks until QEII will have been Queen for 70 years. In that time there will have been 3,654 weeks, and I think 1,361 number 1 singles in the official UK charts, which didn't start until November 1952. There is a playlist of them all on spotify, apparently, although they haven't added the most recent few yet, and I haven't checked that there aren't any gaps...
The playlist is almost 1 day long for every minute of the average song length.
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
We had this discussion last week or the week before if you remember. HYUFD constantly likes to tell us how other people will think, act and vote whether it is Tory faithful in the Home Counties or Working Class Red Wallers in the North. In fact he has absolutely no insight into how these people will vote or what they believe (Edit: and nor do the rest of us to a large extent). The only thing he knows are his own views which he consistently tries to project onto others.
He is a huge expert on Scottish society and electoral behaviour. A real asset to the field.
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
He bestrides the commons, bestrides a podium (though a little robotically) but can filibuster serenely through the toughest interviews.
More important he will replace Boris insane economic and financial back of fag packet policies with something much more credible.
All true. But he also believes in frugal government to fund tax cuts. That might be a good plan, and it's definitely an improvement on having an incontinent Old English Sheepdog in No 10.
But going that way definitely sheds some of the Conservatives' 2019 vote.
(And that's before we get onto Rishi as a Boris-cheerleader, what he knew about all of this over the last 18 months, or his enthusiasm for you-know-what, which does look like it's doing enough bad things to the economy to prevent government goodies or tax cuts...)
It's just under 4 weeks until QEII will have been Queen for 70 years. In that time there will have been 3,654 weeks, and I think 1,361 number 1 singles in the official UK charts, which didn't start until November 1952. There is a playlist of them all on spotify, apparently, although they haven't added the most recent few yet, and I haven't checked that there aren't any gaps...
The playlist is almost 1 day long for every minute of the average song length.
The Queen has been Queen for a long time.
Shame Boris is splattering filth all over her parade.
Sarah Vine: Sometimes people do things that are so unutterably stupid, so determinedly idiotic, so spectacularly self-sabotaging and counterproductive one is lost for words.
When all you can do is stare, open-mouthed and aghast, at the catastrophe unfolding in front of you.
This is precisely how I feel about this latest ‘partygate’ revelation, an email – there it is, in black and white – from Boris Johnson’s principal private secretary, Martin Reynolds, inviting No 10 staff to a booze-up in the grounds of Downing Street on May 20, 2020.
It makes me want to bang my entire head against the nearest wall in fury and frustration. And, frankly, bang all their stupid heads together while I’m at it.
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
We had this discussion last week or the week before if you remember. HYUFD constantly likes to tell us how other people will think, act and vote whether it is Tory faithful in the Home Counties or Working Class Red Wallers in the North. In fact he has absolutely no insight into how these people will vote or what they believe (Edit: and nor do the rest of us to a large extent). The only thing he knows are his own views which he consistently tries to project onto others.
He is a huge expert on Scottish society and electoral behaviour. A real asset to the field.
Do I even need to ask if tongue is firmly in cheek there Stuart?
Thinking back a few threads, did @MoonRabbit have advance knowledge of today’s leak?
No
@MoonRabbit maintained wallpapergate would see Boris gone in a fortnight and I said it would not be wallpapergate but partygate is the real danger for him
I still reckon wallpapergate is more serious, because if the MPs commissioner investigates she has power of commons suspension. The party gate ‘proper investigation’ doesn’t have that ‘proper sanction’ forcing MPs to act. Does that make sense? There isn’t a strong case why she shouldn’t investigate, the PM is an MP too and has to share all the same rules of MP probity “cash for access” surely?
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
They will vote for decency, honesty and integrity which you seem to want to excuse, surprising in view if your constant reference to your Christian beliefs
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
A competent pair of hands holding sane and fair and convincing policies. What the hands are connected to are irrelevant.
And I’m a Libdem and I suspect your dig at Sunak is from Labour supporter upset about the Tories pressing game changer button just as you thought Labour have started having fun at long last?
On Sunak, my Nan likes him. Thinks he's sensible and a good communicator. Given some of her voting history, this comes as a bit of a surprise. I think, with the right delicacy and skill, his wealth could be spun as success and that could be a potent story to tell voters.
As to the game changer button, and as a soft Labour/Lib Dem swinger (as it were), it does grate slightly, watching Tory Government's reinvent themselves and run against their previous record in Government. Interestingly, I just finished The End of the Party and there seemed to have been a real panic circa 2009 in the Labour Party about doing this. The grandees seemed to think the disunity would be fatal and they wouldn't be able to sell it to the electorate (the lead in D. Miliband's pencil notwithstanding). If the Tories manage to dispatch another leader in Government, surely that's a record? I can only think of three in a row going back to the 20th Century (Baldwin, Chamberlain and Churchill. Then Churchill, Eden and MacMillan.) The Liberals might have managed also?
Nevermind, I forgot Alec Douglas-Home! A new leader, Pre-Election, would only be equal to their record.
Sarah Vine: Sometimes people do things that are so unutterably stupid, so determinedly idiotic, so spectacularly self-sabotaging and counterproductive one is lost for words.
When all you can do is stare, open-mouthed and aghast, at the catastrophe unfolding in front of you.
This is precisely how I feel about this latest ‘partygate’ revelation, an email – there it is, in black and white – from Boris Johnson’s principal private secretary, Martin Reynolds, inviting No 10 staff to a booze-up in the grounds of Downing Street on May 20, 2020.
It makes me want to bang my entire head against the nearest wall in fury and frustration. And, frankly, bang all their stupid heads together while I’m at it.
Sarah Vine: Sometimes people do things that are so unutterably stupid, so determinedly idiotic, so spectacularly self-sabotaging and counterproductive one is lost for words.
When all you can do is stare, open-mouthed and aghast, at the catastrophe unfolding in front of you.
This is precisely how I feel about this latest ‘partygate’ revelation, an email – there it is, in black and white – from Boris Johnson’s principal private secretary, Martin Reynolds, inviting No 10 staff to a booze-up in the grounds of Downing Street on May 20, 2020.
It makes me want to bang my entire head against the nearest wall in fury and frustration. And, frankly, bang all their stupid heads together while I’m at it.
Sarah Vine: Sometimes people do things that are so unutterably stupid, so determinedly idiotic, so spectacularly self-sabotaging and counterproductive one is lost for words.
When all you can do is stare, open-mouthed and aghast, at the catastrophe unfolding in front of you.
This is precisely how I feel about this latest ‘partygate’ revelation, an email – there it is, in black and white – from Boris Johnson’s principal private secretary, Martin Reynolds, inviting No 10 staff to a booze-up in the grounds of Downing Street on May 20, 2020.
It makes me want to bang my entire head against the nearest wall in fury and frustration. And, frankly, bang all their stupid heads together while I’m at it.
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
We had this discussion last week or the week before if you remember. HYUFD constantly likes to tell us how other people will think, act and vote whether it is Tory faithful in the Home Counties or Working Class Red Wallers in the North. In fact he has absolutely no insight into how these people will vote or what they believe (Edit: and nor do the rest of us to a large extent). The only thing he knows are his own views which he consistently tries to project onto others.
Look, the fact is most on this site are fiscally conservative, social liberals. The type who would love Osborne and Sunak and Blair and Clegg to some extent but hate Boris and Brown.
However it was Boris and Brown who won the redwall
Thinking back a few threads, did @MoonRabbit have advance knowledge of today’s leak?
No
@MoonRabbit maintained wallpapergate would see Boris gone in a fortnight and I said it would not be wallpapergate but partygate is the real danger for him
I still reckon wallpapergate is more serious, because if the MPs commissioner investigates she has power of commons suspension. The party gate ‘proper investigation’ doesn’t have that ‘proper sanction’ forcing MPs to act. Does that make sense? There isn’t a strong case why she shouldn’t investigate, the PM is an MP too and has to share all the same rules of MP probity “cash for access” surely?
It's just under 4 weeks until QEII will have been Queen for 70 years. In that time there will have been 3,654 weeks, and I think 1,361 number 1 singles in the official UK charts, which didn't start until November 1952. There is a playlist of them all on spotify, apparently, although they haven't added the most recent few yet, and I haven't checked that there aren't any gaps...
The playlist is almost 1 day long for every minute of the average song length.
The Queen has been Queen for a long time.
Shame Boris is splattering filth all over her parade.
I don't think we've had that revelation yet, have we?
Sarah Vine: Sometimes people do things that are so unutterably stupid, so determinedly idiotic, so spectacularly self-sabotaging and counterproductive one is lost for words.
When all you can do is stare, open-mouthed and aghast, at the catastrophe unfolding in front of you.
This is precisely how I feel about this latest ‘partygate’ revelation, an email – there it is, in black and white – from Boris Johnson’s principal private secretary, Martin Reynolds, inviting No 10 staff to a booze-up in the grounds of Downing Street on May 20, 2020.
It makes me want to bang my entire head against the nearest wall in fury and frustration. And, frankly, bang all their stupid heads together while I’m at it.
Sarah Vine: Sometimes people do things that are so unutterably stupid, so determinedly idiotic, so spectacularly self-sabotaging and counterproductive one is lost for words.
When all you can do is stare, open-mouthed and aghast, at the catastrophe unfolding in front of you.
This is precisely how I feel about this latest ‘partygate’ revelation, an email – there it is, in black and white – from Boris Johnson’s principal private secretary, Martin Reynolds, inviting No 10 staff to a booze-up in the grounds of Downing Street on May 20, 2020.
It makes me want to bang my entire head against the nearest wall in fury and frustration. And, frankly, bang all their stupid heads together while I’m at it.
Sarah Vine: Sometimes people do things that are so unutterably stupid, so determinedly idiotic, so spectacularly self-sabotaging and counterproductive one is lost for words.
When all you can do is stare, open-mouthed and aghast, at the catastrophe unfolding in front of you.
This is precisely how I feel about this latest ‘partygate’ revelation, an email – there it is, in black and white – from Boris Johnson’s principal private secretary, Martin Reynolds, inviting No 10 staff to a booze-up in the grounds of Downing Street on May 20, 2020.
It makes me want to bang my entire head against the nearest wall in fury and frustration. And, frankly, bang all their stupid heads together while I’m at it.
Thinking back a few threads, did @MoonRabbit have advance knowledge of today’s leak?
No
@MoonRabbit maintained wallpapergate would see Boris gone in a fortnight and I said it would not be wallpapergate but partygate is the real danger for him
I still reckon wallpapergate is more serious, because if the MPs commissioner investigates she has power of commons suspension. The party gate ‘proper investigation’ doesn’t have that ‘proper sanction’ forcing MPs to act. Does that make sense? There isn’t a strong case why she shouldn’t investigate, the PM is an MP too and has to share all the same rules of MP probity “cash for access” surely?
Boris referred the request for the exhibition to the cabinet office who rejected it
I have no doubt partygate is an issue of many more times magnitude which for the first time I really feel could see Boris fall
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
No, Essex votes for Tory governments. Most Essex seats even voted for Macmillan and Heath, with Thatcher they just became even more conservative as she won new towns like Harlow and Basildon from Labour.
The North however is far more public sector dependent and far more pro big state and likely always will be. The redwall never even voted for Thatcher, Boris is the only Tory leader it ever voted for
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
I think that's a mistaken view Big_G. In my experience the people who know how to manage money best are those who have very little; anyone with lots of money really doesn't have to try very hard to make more.
I've seen it to a small extent through my life:
In my early married years money was always tight, we only kept our heads above water by budgeting very carefully, checking the prices of everything, foregoing some things each month that we'd have liked but couldn't afford, etc. This is the common experience of millions of families up and down the country.
But, as my career progressed and my earnings increased, gradually money became less and less of an issue until now, in a comfortable retirement - mortgage paid, no debts, reasonable savings, good pension - I never really think about money. And yet still our savings seem to grow.
Anyone like Sunak who has never had to endure the grind of weekly and monthly budgeting on an income that is not quite enough, does most assuredly not know how to manage money.
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
Except that the genius of 2019 was to co-opt older voters in the Red Wall. Almost by definition, their prime interest will be pensions, health, social care and making the streets look nice. Spending increases over tax cuts.
Thinking back a few threads, did @MoonRabbit have advance knowledge of today’s leak?
No
@MoonRabbit maintained wallpapergate would see Boris gone in a fortnight and I said it would not be wallpapergate but partygate is the real danger for him
I still reckon wallpapergate is more serious, because if the MPs commissioner investigates she has power of commons suspension. The party gate ‘proper investigation’ doesn’t have that ‘proper sanction’ forcing MPs to act. Does that make sense? There isn’t a strong case why she shouldn’t investigate, the PM is an MP too and has to share all the same rules of MP probity “cash for access” surely?
Boris referred the request for the exhibition to the cabinet office who rejected it
I have no doubt partygate is an issue of many more times magnitude which for the first time I really feel could see Boris fall
By what mechanism? Resignation? I think not. VONC? Nah, too many fearties. So how? Impeachment?
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
I think that's a mistaken view Big_G. In my experience the people who know how to manage money best are those who have very little; anyone with lots of money really doesn't have to try very hard to make more.
I've seen it to a small extent through my life:
In my early married years money was always tight, we only kept our heads above water by budgeting very carefully, checking the prices of everything, foregoing some things each month that we'd have liked but couldn't afford, etc. This is the common experience of millions of families up and down the country.
But, as my career progressed and my earnings increased, gradually money became less and less of an issue until now, in a comfortable retirement - mortgage paid, no debts, reasonable savings, good pension - I never really think about money. And yet still our savings seem to grow.
Anyone like Sunak who has never had to endure the grind of weekly and monthly budgeting on an income that is not quite enough, does most assuredly not know how to manage money.
I understand your point but do not agree
It is one thing budgeting household expenditure, it is quite another dealing with millions, billions and more running a Country's finance
It's just under 4 weeks until QEII will have been Queen for 70 years. In that time there will have been 3,654 weeks, and I think 1,361 number 1 singles in the official UK charts, which didn't start until November 1952. There is a playlist of them all on spotify, apparently, although they haven't added the most recent few yet, and I haven't checked that there aren't any gaps...
The playlist is almost 1 day long for every minute of the average song length.
The Queen has been Queen for a long time.
And Queen (the band) were number 1 for a good few of those weeks.
Queen albums have spent a total of 1,322 weeks (twenty-six years) on the UK Album Charts They are only band ever to have the same song as Christmas #1 twice They are only band to have had the same song as #1 in 4 separate years. They are only band to have featured alongside The Queen on a British coin.
And now I think I will hit the 'off topic' button on myself
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
So we need a self employed steeplejack?
I'll get my dressing gown...
Dibnah for PM! (Is he dead yet? He must be, surely.)
He lived across the road from the student bar where I did my teacher training. A strange old cove was he.
Absolutely brilliant telly though. There was an old programme of his came up on facebook. I was absolutely drawn in. Just some old bloke talking about the pointing on a chimney, and not falling off. I could watch it for hours. I tried to place the programme in time. Reckoned it to be late 60s/early 70s, and that Dibnah was one of those fellas who looked like an old man from a very early age. It was from 1985! Small town Greater Manchester in the 1980s and its fashions were a lot more primitive than I'd remembered.
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
I think that's a mistaken view Big_G. In my experience the people who know how to manage money best are those who have very little; anyone with lots of money really doesn't have to try very hard to make more.
I've seen it to a small extent through my life:
In my early married years money was always tight, we only kept our heads above water by budgeting very carefully, checking the prices of everything, foregoing some things each month that we'd have liked but couldn't afford, etc. This is the common experience of millions of families up and down the country.
But, as my career progressed and my earnings increased, gradually money became less and less of an issue until now, in a comfortable retirement - mortgage paid, no debts, reasonable savings, good pension - I never really think about money. And yet still our savings seem to grow.
Anyone like Sunak who has never had to endure the grind of weekly and monthly budgeting on an income that is not quite enough, does most assuredly not know how to manage money.
I understand your point but do not agree
It is one thing budgeting household expenditure, it is quite another dealing with millions, billions and more running a Country's finance
Reminds me of the nonsense analogy Thatcher used to spout about a good housewife managing the nations accounts.
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
Not all "red wall" is the same, the big link with my (And my prior) Bassetlaw/NE Derbyshire constituencies to Labour was the mining link. Labour could win here again, but I'd say it's about as likely as a win in somewhere like Dover, which obviously isn't "red wall".
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
We had this discussion last week or the week before if you remember. HYUFD constantly likes to tell us how other people will think, act and vote whether it is Tory faithful in the Home Counties or Working Class Red Wallers in the North. In fact he has absolutely no insight into how these people will vote or what they believe (Edit: and nor do the rest of us to a large extent). The only thing he knows are his own views which he consistently tries to project onto others.
Look, the fact is most on this site are fiscally conservative, social liberals. The type who would love Osborne and Sunak and Blair and Clegg to some extent but hate Boris and Brown.
However it was Boris and Brown who won the redwall
So did Blair...
Being from the Red Wall, my opinion is that Red Waller's don't really exist but if they did they like much the same as other voters. They want their kids to do well and they want improvements to their local area commensurate with what they perceive others (usually Londoners) are getting. Some, admittedly, want their prejudices pandered to but this isn't unique to the Red Wall either.
On top of the morals of sticking to your own rules, these May parties were only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID....you would have thought that would have the effect of thinking oh shit this thing deadly, we need to do everything possible not to be spreading it.
Thinking back a few threads, did @MoonRabbit have advance knowledge of today’s leak?
No
@MoonRabbit maintained wallpapergate would see Boris gone in a fortnight and I said it would not be wallpapergate but partygate is the real danger for him
I still reckon wallpapergate is more serious, because if the MPs commissioner investigates she has power of commons suspension. The party gate ‘proper investigation’ doesn’t have that ‘proper sanction’ forcing MPs to act. Does that make sense? There isn’t a strong case why she shouldn’t investigate, the PM is an MP too and has to share all the same rules of MP probity “cash for access” surely?
Boris referred the request for the exhibition to the cabinet office who rejected it
I have no doubt partygate is an issue of many more times magnitude which for the first time I really feel could see Boris fall
By what mechanism? Resignation? I think not. VONC? Nah, too many fearties. So how? Impeachment?
Resignation is not as unlikely as it was but his mps will have great concern for their seats and 54 are enough for a VONC
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
Except that the genius of 2019 was to co-opt older voters in the Red Wall. Almost by definition, their prime interest will be pensions, health, social care and making the streets look nice. Spending increases over tax cuts.
The three reasons the Red Wall switched to support Johnson in 2019 were BREXIT, BREXIT and BREXIT.
With or without Johnson at the helm I suspect many of those votes will be going back to Labour in 2024
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
No, Essex votes for Tory governments. Most Essex seats even voted for Macmillan and Heath, with Thatcher they just became even more conservative as she won new towns like Harlow and Basildon from Labour.
The North however is far more public sector dependent and far more pro big state and likely always will be. The redwall never even voted for Thatcher, Boris is the only Tory leader it ever voted for
No, Manchester and Liverpool and Newcastle are public sector dependent - especially middle class public sector or quasi public sector jobs. But that's not really red wall. There's a lot of small private sector employers (and employees) in the red wall. Didn't used to be the case in Thatcher's day when the NUM was the big employer, but times are very different now.
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
“ No Redwall voters back a big state “
Do you want to retract that claim?
People who voted socialist all their life until Boris and Brexit?
52% Brexit vote was a wide coalition. Perhaps up to 10% or even much more were happy to remove EU block on nationalisation.
Unless you want to dispute this and continue to say there were none?
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
I think that's a mistaken view Big_G. In my experience the people who know how to manage money best are those who have very little; anyone with lots of money really doesn't have to try very hard to make more.
I've seen it to a small extent through my life:
In my early married years money was always tight, we only kept our heads above water by budgeting very carefully, checking the prices of everything, foregoing some things each month that we'd have liked but couldn't afford, etc. This is the common experience of millions of families up and down the country.
But, as my career progressed and my earnings increased, gradually money became less and less of an issue until now, in a comfortable retirement - mortgage paid, no debts, reasonable savings, good pension - I never really think about money. And yet still our savings seem to grow.
Anyone like Sunak who has never had to endure the grind of weekly and monthly budgeting on an income that is not quite enough, does most assuredly not know how to manage money.
I understand your point but do not agree
It is one thing budgeting household expenditure, it is quite another dealing with millions, billions and more running a Country's finance
But how does being a wealthy individual help with that? Does a wealthy individual have to balance healthcare with defence, with taxes?
Goodnight. I wonder where this story is going to go next. It seemed dead, but now we have 100 people invited. By next week will we discover that there was a 40ft wicker man and associated pagan sexual rituals in the Downing St rose garden?
The three reasons the Red Wall switched to support Johnson in 2019 were BREXIT, BREXIT and BREXIT.
With or without Johnson at the helm I suspect many of those votes will be going back to Labour in 2024
Yes, although it seem to have been forgotten that, under Cameron, the Conservatives made considerable progress in what we now term 'Red Wall' seats, such as North West Derbyshire.
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
So we need a self employed steeplejack?
I'll get my dressing gown...
Dibnah for PM! (Is he dead yet? He must be, surely.)
He lived across the road from the student bar where I did my teacher training. A strange old cove was he.
Absolutely brilliant telly though. There was an old programme of his came up on facebook. I was absolutely drawn in. Just some old bloke talking about the pointing on a chimney, and not falling off. I could watch it for hours. I tried to place the programme in time. Reckoned it to be late 60s/early 70s, and that Dibnah was one of those fellas who looked like an old man from a very early age. It was from 1985! Small town Greater Manchester in the 1980s and its fashions were a lot more primitive than I'd remembered.
Yes. I didn't mean strange old cove in an entirely pejorative sense btw. His demolition of chimneys by burning was quite summat. I'm not great with heights. He just was. Like Messi can play football. There was also a steam engine museum in Bolton off Chorley Old Road which he instigated. Saved and repaired and maintained. Some absolutely huge and impressive machines which would have otherwise been scrapped. The nuclear reactors of their day. Spent literally days in there when the kids were little. But he was also a funny bugger. Plenty of side to him as they say.
They should have admitted to all the parties at once. In a nineteen hour press conference, with some absurd excuse for the entire lot
This slow attrition is much worse
What in the name of Holy Fucketty Fuck-Fuck did they think they were doing? It makes Dom's eye test drivel look like a modest, understandable transgression of the rules
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
No, Essex votes for Tory governments. Most Essex seats even voted for Macmillan and Heath, with Thatcher they just became even more conservative as she won new towns like Harlow and Basildon from Labour.
The North however is far more public sector dependent and far more pro big state and likely always will be. The redwall never even voted for Thatcher, Boris is the only Tory leader it ever voted for
No, Manchester and Liverpool and Newcastle are public sector dependent - especially middle class public sector or quasi public sector jobs. But that's not really red wall. There's a lot of small private sector employers (and employees) in the red wall. Didn't used to be the case in Thatcher's day when the NUM was the big employer, but times are very different now.
NUM an employer?! Well, as a trade union they will have had a few employees, but surely you mean the Coal Board?
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
I think that's a mistaken view Big_G. In my experience the people who know how to manage money best are those who have very little; anyone with lots of money really doesn't have to try very hard to make more.
I've seen it to a small extent through my life:
In my early married years money was always tight, we only kept our heads above water by budgeting very carefully, checking the prices of everything, foregoing some things each month that we'd have liked but couldn't afford, etc. This is the common experience of millions of families up and down the country.
But, as my career progressed and my earnings increased, gradually money became less and less of an issue until now, in a comfortable retirement - mortgage paid, no debts, reasonable savings, good pension - I never really think about money. And yet still our savings seem to grow.
Anyone like Sunak who has never had to endure the grind of weekly and monthly budgeting on an income that is not quite enough, does most assuredly not know how to manage money.
I understand your point but do not agree
It is one thing budgeting household expenditure, it is quite another dealing with millions, billions and more running a Country's finance
Reminds me of the nonsense analogy Thatcher used to spout about a good housewife managing the nations accounts.
Indeed, it was total tosh. For a start, what housewife has the ability to print their own money, or set their own interest rate?
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
I think that's a mistaken view Big_G. In my experience the people who know how to manage money best are those who have very little; anyone with lots of money really doesn't have to try very hard to make more.
I've seen it to a small extent through my life:
In my early married years money was always tight, we only kept our heads above water by budgeting very carefully, checking the prices of everything, foregoing some things each month that we'd have liked but couldn't afford, etc. This is the common experience of millions of families up and down the country.
But, as my career progressed and my earnings increased, gradually money became less and less of an issue until now, in a comfortable retirement - mortgage paid, no debts, reasonable savings, good pension - I never really think about money. And yet still our savings seem to grow.
Anyone like Sunak who has never had to endure the grind of weekly and monthly budgeting on an income that is not quite enough, does most assuredly not know how to manage money.
I understand your point but do not agree
It is one thing budgeting household expenditure, it is quite another dealing with millions, billions and more running a Country's finance
Reminds me of the nonsense analogy Thatcher used to spout about a good housewife managing the nations accounts.
Indeed, it was total tosh. For a start, what housewife has the ability to print their own money, or set their own interest rate?
The three reasons the Red Wall switched to support Johnson in 2019 were BREXIT, BREXIT and BREXIT.
With or without Johnson at the helm I suspect many of those votes will be going back to Labour in 2024
Yes, although it seem to have been forgotten that, under Cameron, the Conservatives made considerable progress in what we now term 'Red Wall' seats, such as North West Derbyshire.
Sure - long term demographic changes and all that.
Maybe we should be focus on the SE Blue Wall for GE 2024, to see how that holds up?
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
Except that the genius of 2019 was to co-opt older voters in the Red Wall. Almost by definition, their prime interest will be pensions, health, social care and making the streets look nice. Spending increases over tax cuts.
The three reasons the Red Wall switched to support Johnson in 2019 were BREXIT, BREXIT and BREXIT.
With or without Johnson at the helm I suspect many of those votes will be going back to Labour in 2024
I disagree. Levelling Up appealed to communities ravaged for decades by globalisation as much as Brexit did. There was something a bit tax and spend about Boris manifesto wasn’t there even with the watch my lips no new taxes on working people pledge?
So GET BREXIT DONE, LEVEL UP, NO NEW TAXES BUT MUCH MORE SPENDING ?
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
“ No Redwall voters back a big state “
Do you want to retract that claim?
People who voted socialist all their life until Boris and Brexit?
52% Brexit vote was a wide coalition. Perhaps up to 10% or even much more were happy to remove EU block on nationalisation.
Unless you want to dispute this and continue to say there were none?
Most redwall seats even voted for Ed Miliband and Corbyn in 2017.
What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?
Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
I think that's a mistaken view Big_G. In my experience the people who know how to manage money best are those who have very little; anyone with lots of money really doesn't have to try very hard to make more.
I've seen it to a small extent through my life:
In my early married years money was always tight, we only kept our heads above water by budgeting very carefully, checking the prices of everything, foregoing some things each month that we'd have liked but couldn't afford, etc. This is the common experience of millions of families up and down the country.
But, as my career progressed and my earnings increased, gradually money became less and less of an issue until now, in a comfortable retirement - mortgage paid, no debts, reasonable savings, good pension - I never really think about money. And yet still our savings seem to grow.
Anyone like Sunak who has never had to endure the grind of weekly and monthly budgeting on an income that is not quite enough, does most assuredly not know how to manage money.
I understand your point but do not agree
It is one thing budgeting household expenditure, it is quite another dealing with millions, billions and more running a Country's finance
Reminds me of the nonsense analogy Thatcher used to spout about a good housewife managing the nations accounts.
Indeed, it was total tosh. For a start, what housewife has the ability to print their own money, or set their own interest rate?
Or steal the next door neighbour’s waste all the oil and gas stored in the attic?
They should have admitted to all the parties at once. In a nineteen hour press conference, with some absurd excuse for the entire lot
This slow attrition is much worse
What in the name of Holy Fucketty Fuck-Fuck did they think they were doing? It makes Dom's eye test drivel look like a modest, understandable transgression of the rules
It's simply in Boris' nature to lie as a reflex. The slow attrition via leak does look as though it might have been designed to play into that.
Either slightly fortuitous, or a master political assassin at work.
And in what universe would Boris ever think 'let's come clean' the way to go ?
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
No, Essex votes for Tory governments. Most Essex seats even voted for Macmillan and Heath, with Thatcher they just became even more conservative as she won new towns like Harlow and Basildon from Labour.
The North however is far more public sector dependent and far more pro big state and likely always will be. The redwall never even voted for Thatcher, Boris is the only Tory leader it ever voted for
No, Manchester and Liverpool and Newcastle are public sector dependent - especially middle class public sector or quasi public sector jobs. But that's not really red wall. There's a lot of small private sector employers (and employees) in the red wall. Didn't used to be the case in Thatcher's day when the NUM was the big employer, but times are very different now.
NUM an employer?! Well, as a trade union they will have had a few employees, but surely you mean the Coal Board?
Ha - of course, yes, I do. Tired and busy and not really giving arguments on the internet my full attention!
Goodnight. I wonder where this story is going to go next. It seemed dead, but now we have 100 people invited. By next week will we discover that there was a 40ft wicker man and associated pagan sexual rituals in the Downing St rose garden?
The three reasons the Red Wall switched to support Johnson in 2019 were BREXIT, BREXIT and BREXIT.
With or without Johnson at the helm I suspect many of those votes will be going back to Labour in 2024
Yes, although it seem to have been forgotten that, under Cameron, the Conservatives made considerable progress in what we now term 'Red Wall' seats, such as North West Derbyshire.
The population of the UK was just under 50.5 million at the beginning of 1952, since when there have been at least 55 million live births in the UK, and since 1964 an estimated 20 million people have immigrated to the UK (though up to 5 million of these might be people returning who had earlier emigrated), meaning that perhaps around 125 million people have lived in the UK during the reign of QEII.
The population of the UK was just under 50.5 million at the beginning of 1952, since when there have been at least 55 million live births in the UK, and since 1964 an estimated 20 million people have immigrated to the UK (though up to 5 million of these might be people returning who had earlier emigrated), meaning that perhaps around 125 million people have lived in the UK during the reign of QEII.
Ah yes, but if it was during lockdown, can it really be described as "living"?
Goodnight. I wonder where this story is going to go next. It seemed dead, but now we have 100 people invited. By next week will we discover that there was a 40ft wicker man and associated pagan sexual rituals in the Downing St rose garden?
Looking forward to those photos!
Next week we discover that literally everyone except the 200-or-so of us that spend our time on here were invited. Actually lockdown was a brilliant social whirl unless you were hanging out on the internet bemoaning it.
Thinking back a few threads, did @MoonRabbit have advance knowledge of today’s leak?
No
@MoonRabbit maintained wallpapergate would see Boris gone in a fortnight and I said it would not be wallpapergate but partygate is the real danger for him
I still reckon wallpapergate is more serious, because if the MPs commissioner investigates she has power of commons suspension. The party gate ‘proper investigation’ doesn’t have that ‘proper sanction’ forcing MPs to act. Does that make sense? There isn’t a strong case why she shouldn’t investigate, the PM is an MP too and has to share all the same rules of MP probity “cash for access” surely?
Boris referred the request for the exhibition to the cabinet office who rejected it
I have no doubt partygate is an issue of many more times magnitude which for the first time I really feel could see Boris fall
By what mechanism? Resignation? I think not. VONC? Nah, too many fearties. So how? Impeachment?
Yes you a right, the bit Big G is missing - the parliamentary commissioner has, I don’t really want to use this phrase on here, power to discipline. Facing suspension Boris would resign and there wouldn’t even be a vonk.
The party investigation, even from the police, doesn’t carry the same level of punishment, massive reputation damage yes for Boris and the party, but vonk still in hands what you call the fearties.
My suspicion is, if they got the numbers to win a vonk, the Tory finish Boris squad will now try to organise a parliamentary investigation into Boris, not one he can set up himself, manipulate, and carries no sanction. It will go down into the history books as the wallpaper what got him.
“ Boris referred the request for the exhibition to the cabinet office who rejected it”
Is that actually right Big G? I thought Boris sent his minister along and the thing is happening? Will there be a stand with wallpaper at this exhibition?
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
“ No Redwall voters back a big state “
Do you want to retract that claim?
People who voted socialist all their life until Boris and Brexit?
52% Brexit vote was a wide coalition. Perhaps up to 10% or even much more were happy to remove EU block on nationalisation.
Unless you want to dispute this and continue to say there were none?
Most redwall seats even voted for Ed Miliband and Corbyn in 2017.
So no, I will certainly not retract
Okay. 🙂 moving it along then, what sort of timeline for Australian government cutting up Novak’s visa? Will we awake in UK morning to find they have done it? Why’s it taking so long?
Could it be appealed and go back before a judge? Will they need to be sure the judge agrees this time?
They should have admitted to all the parties at once. In a nineteen hour press conference, with some absurd excuse for the entire lot
This slow attrition is much worse
What in the name of Holy Fucketty Fuck-Fuck did they think they were doing? It makes Dom's eye test drivel look like a modest, understandable transgression of the rules
It's simply in Boris' nature to lie as a reflex. The slow attrition via leak does look as though it might have been designed to play into that.
Either slightly fortuitous, or a master political assassin at work.
And in what universe would Boris ever think 'let's come clean' the way to go ?
Excellent point. It certainly shows how you get Johnson - hold a bit back so you make the story the inevitable lie.
Seventy years before QEII came to the throne, in 1882, the world's first coal-fired public electricity generating station begins operation, in the City of London (QEII's reign sees the first nuclear power plants, in 1954 in the USSR and 1956 in the UK). Burnley FC change codes, from Rugby Union to Association Football. Britain seizes the Suez Canal (rather more successfully than during QEII's reign). The 1812 overture is played in public for the first time.
Question: Will QEII live to see Hinkley Point C generate electricity?
Basically, bet on Boris staying. Without an obvious replacement, I just can't see MPs pulling the trigger.
Have you never heard of Rishi Sunak?
Can’t see it myself.
Can’t see that he would be better?
If they replaced Boris with the Bishop of Bath and Wells from Blackadder it would be better.
It was clear that Major was going to lead the Conservative Party to a poor result in 1997 (albeit few forecast exactly how poor), and he wasn't replaced.
Being shit is a necessary but not sufficient condition for MPs to dump their leader.
The Conservatives can still win the next election if they replace Boris and handle the credit crunch well. That’s what is driving this Robert, Conservatives don’t believe Boris leadership and policy handles the credit crunch well. Basically they want to take back control of policy to stand a chance in the next election, not write it off like they did in 97.
Which raises the question. How? What is Sunakism? Apart from a bloody good Scrabble score?
There was something brilliantly calm about Sunak when I watched him in action and then spoke to him. Knew what he was doing, knew he had a superb team working for him, was human and charming and alarmingly sexier than a 4 foot 2 man should be.
He's a northern Tory, he gets the need to offer the north more than HYUFD's "we don't need your vote cos you aren't really Tories", knows that as a gazillionaire he won't be swayed by the desperate need to line his own pockets like Peppa, and can point to almost unbelievable heroics throwing oceans of cash at business to keep people on jobs when the alternative was mass bankruptcies and unemployment.
The only hypothetical voting intention under Sunak had the Tories still trailing Starmer Labour by 3%. Sunak made zero net gains from Labour, only slight gains he made were from London and Southern LDs
You keep desperately flailing about posting this same shit. It's as if Conservative voters no longer care about conservation. Good governance. The British way. Principles. You keep saying "as long as we lift restrictions" - people vote on a lot more than that.
Red wall voters don't give a toss about conservation or fiscal conservatism, after all the only Tory leader they ever voted for was big spending Boris as he promised to get Brexit done
Red wall voters value honestly, integrity, fairness, and above all else not to be taken for granted with one rule for them and one for everyone else
You really are blind to that which is staring you in the face
No Redwall voters back a big state, the only reason they voted Tory in 2019 for the first time in their lives was big spending Boris promised to get Brexit done.
They would vote Labour again now Brexit is done rather than Sunak fiscal conservatism
You have no idea how the red wall would react to the end of Boris and his sleeze and a new fresh conservative leader
Neither do you if you think the redwall will ever vote for austerity
Why wouldn't voters in the red wall vote for a small state? Why wouldn't they vote for the same approach the Essex voted for in the 80s? Once upon a time it seemed ludicrous that working class voters in Harlow and Basildon and Canvey Island would vote for Thatcher. Why wouldn't voters in Bishop Auckland and Walsall and North East Derbyshire be interested in a similar small state approach? These aren't areas of high unemployment. These are areas of high home ownership. These are people who don't want to be dependent on the state. They may not be as rich as people in Surrey or Buckinghamshire. But that was true of Essex once, too, no?
Not all "red wall" is the same, the big link with my (And my prior) Bassetlaw/NE Derbyshire constituencies to Labour was the mining link. Labour could win here again, but I'd say it's about as likely as a win in somewhere like Dover, which obviously isn't "red wall".
I think we generalise too much - the red wall is made up of a lot of different types of people, in particular people who've moved there relatively recently because you can get a nice house relatively cheaply. Just as many Londoners moving out take their Laour politics with them, so Tories moving north to retire take their politics along.
I doubt if many non-political people anywhere think in terms of "big state" or "small state" - those are abstract terms. But if you translate it into a specific service - most obviously the NHS, but also decent schools, buses and trains - then people are mostly quite keen on a big state.
They should have admitted to all the parties at once. In a nineteen hour press conference, with some absurd excuse for the entire lot
This slow attrition is much worse
What in the name of Holy Fucketty Fuck-Fuck did they think they were doing? It makes Dom's eye test drivel look like a modest, understandable transgression of the rules
It's simply in Boris' nature to lie as a reflex. The slow attrition via leak does look as though it might have been designed to play into that.
Either slightly fortuitous, or a master political assassin at work.
And in what universe would Boris ever think 'let's come clean' the way to go ?
Excellent point. It certainly shows how you get Johnson - hold a bit back so you make the story the inevitable lie.
Its how you get most politicians. But Boris is particularly susceptible.
Thinking back a few threads, did @MoonRabbit have advance knowledge of today’s leak?
No
@MoonRabbit maintained wallpapergate would see Boris gone in a fortnight and I said it would not be wallpapergate but partygate is the real danger for him
I still reckon wallpapergate is more serious, because if the MPs commissioner investigates she has power of commons suspension. The party gate ‘proper investigation’ doesn’t have that ‘proper sanction’ forcing MPs to act. Does that make sense? There isn’t a strong case why she shouldn’t investigate, the PM is an MP too and has to share all the same rules of MP probity “cash for access” surely?
Boris referred the request for the exhibition to the cabinet office who rejected it
I have no doubt partygate is an issue of many more times magnitude which for the first time I really feel could see Boris fall
By what mechanism? Resignation? I think not. VONC? Nah, too many fearties. So how? Impeachment?
Yes you a right, the bit Big G is missing - the parliamentary commissioner has, I don’t really want to use this phrase on here, power to discipline. Facing suspension Boris would resign and there wouldn’t even be a vonk.
The party investigation, even from the police, doesn’t carry the same level of punishment, massive reputation damage yes for Boris and the party, but vonk still in hands what you call the fearties.
My suspicion is, if they got the numbers to win a vonk, the Tory finish Boris squad will now try to organise a parliamentary investigation into Boris, not one he can set up himself, manipulate, and carries no sanction. It will go down into the history books as the wallpaper what got him…
Seventy years before QEII came to the throne, in 1882, the world's first coal-fired public electricity generating station begins operation, in the City of London (QEII's reign sees the first nuclear power plants, in 1954 in the USSR and 1956 in the UK). Burnley FC change codes, from Rugby Union to Association Football. Britain seizes the Suez Canal (rather more successfully than during QEII's reign). The 1812 overture is played in public for the first time.
Question: Will QEII live to see Hinkley Point C generate electricity?
No.
But don't worry, it will generate lots of revenue for Bechtel.
One frontbencher said: “I think this is the worst exposed the prime minister has ever been by these leaks. There’s no explanation, there’s no way to distance himself. His only saviour is if the public has given up caring.”
Comments
The seven day penalty is rapidly headed for the bin, I suspect.
FWIW, I agree with you.
I think Sunak will play much better in the Red Wall than HYUFD thinks, for the reasons Big G succinctly spells out (as well as the reason you spell out).
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1480673800748343297?s=20
Remember that he told the house he was outraged to hear there had been parties in Downing Street....
The successor perhaps needs to be outside the cabinet.
More important he will replace Boris insane economic and financial back of fag packet policies with something much more credible.
But there is the danger that not Boris is answering the wrong question. Just as Brown as not Blair. And Boris as not May.
"Sane and fair and convincing policies"?
I see no evidence of those.
If they exist, what are they? Specifically?
I'll get my dressing gown...
The only Tory leader they have ever voted for was Boris. If Sunak offers them austerity and tax rises they will vote Labour again
Wallpaper 1 Wilde 0.
If the wallpaper was able to inflict defeat on someone with Wilde's towering abilities, what conceivable chance of survival does Boris have against a decorative mural adversary?
I think, for Boris, the writing's on the wall.
The playlist is almost 1 day long for every minute of the average song length.
The Queen has been Queen for a long time.
...coz they'd already drunk the place dry at the piss up on the 15th.
But going that way definitely sheds some of the Conservatives' 2019 vote.
(And that's before we get onto Rishi as a Boris-cheerleader, what he knew about all of this over the last 18 months, or his enthusiasm for you-know-what, which does look like it's doing enough bad things to the economy to prevent government goodies or tax cuts...)
When all you can do is stare, open-mouthed and aghast, at the catastrophe unfolding in front of you.
This is precisely how I feel about this latest ‘partygate’ revelation, an email – there it is, in black and white – from Boris Johnson’s principal private secretary, Martin Reynolds, inviting No 10 staff to a booze-up in the grounds of Downing Street on May 20, 2020.
It makes me want to bang my entire head against the nearest wall in fury and frustration. And, frankly, bang all their stupid heads together while I’m at it.
There isn’t a strong case why she shouldn’t investigate, the PM is an MP too and has to share all the same rules of MP probity “cash for access” surely?
https://twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1480648501570715652?s=20
As to the game changer button, and as a soft Labour/Lib Dem swinger (as it were), it does grate slightly, watching Tory Government's reinvent themselves and run against their previous record in Government. Interestingly, I just finished The End of the Party and there seemed to have been a real panic circa 2009 in the Labour Party about doing this. The grandees seemed to think the disunity would be fatal and they wouldn't be able to sell it to the electorate (the lead in D. Miliband's pencil notwithstanding). If the Tories manage to dispatch another leader in Government, surely that's a record? I can only think of three in a row going back to the 20th Century (Baldwin, Chamberlain and Churchill. Then Churchill, Eden and MacMillan.) The Liberals might have managed also?
Nevermind, I forgot Alec Douglas-Home! A new leader, Pre-Election, would only be equal to their record.
However it was Boris and Brown who won the redwall
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1480676290457968643?s=20
(Is he dead yet? He must be, surely.)
Lab 39%
Con 35%
LD 12%
Grn 5%
SNP 4%
Refuk 4%
I have no doubt partygate is an issue of many more times magnitude which for the first time I really feel could see Boris fall
The North however is far more public sector dependent and far more pro big state and likely always will be. The redwall never even voted for Thatcher, Boris is the only Tory leader it ever voted for
I've seen it to a small extent through my life:
In my early married years money was always tight, we only kept our heads above water by budgeting very carefully, checking the prices of everything, foregoing some things each month that we'd have liked but couldn't afford, etc. This is the common experience of millions of families up and down the country.
But, as my career progressed and my earnings increased, gradually money became less and less of an issue until now, in a comfortable retirement - mortgage paid, no debts, reasonable savings, good pension - I never really think about money. And yet still our savings seem to grow.
Anyone like Sunak who has never had to endure the grind of weekly and monthly budgeting on an income that is not quite enough, does most assuredly not know how to manage money.
A strange old cove was he.
It is one thing budgeting household expenditure, it is quite another dealing with millions, billions and more running a Country's finance
Queen albums have spent a total of 1,322 weeks (twenty-six years) on the UK Album Charts
They are only band ever to have the same song as Christmas #1 twice
They are only band to have had the same song as #1 in 4 separate years.
They are only band to have featured alongside The Queen on a British coin.
And now I think I will hit the 'off topic' button on myself
Who in their right mind will ever fund a statue of Johnson?
There was an old programme of his came up on facebook. I was absolutely drawn in. Just some old bloke talking about the pointing on a chimney, and not falling off. I could watch it for hours.
I tried to place the programme in time. Reckoned it to be late 60s/early 70s, and that Dibnah was one of those fellas who looked like an old man from a very early age. It was from 1985! Small town Greater Manchester in the 1980s and its fashions were a lot more primitive than I'd remembered.
Labour could win here again, but I'd say it's about as likely as a win in somewhere like Dover, which obviously isn't "red wall".
Being from the Red Wall, my opinion is that Red Waller's don't really exist but if they did they like much the same as other voters. They want their kids to do well and they want improvements to their local area commensurate with what they perceive others (usually Londoners) are getting. Some, admittedly, want their prejudices pandered to but this isn't unique to the Red Wall either.
With or without Johnson at the helm I suspect many of those votes will be going back to Labour in 2024
Good night folks
And Boris is as near to the exit door as he has been
Do you want to retract that claim?
People who voted socialist all their life until Boris and Brexit?
52% Brexit vote was a wide coalition. Perhaps up to 10% or even much more were happy to remove EU block on nationalisation.
Unless you want to dispute this and continue to say there were none?
Otherwise the farce continues.
I didn't mean strange old cove in an entirely pejorative sense btw.
His demolition of chimneys by burning was quite summat.
I'm not great with heights. He just was. Like Messi can play football.
There was also a steam engine museum in Bolton off Chorley Old Road which he instigated. Saved and repaired and maintained. Some absolutely huge and impressive machines which would have otherwise been scrapped. The nuclear reactors of their day. Spent literally days in there when the kids were little.
But he was also a funny bugger. Plenty of side to him as they say.
This slow attrition is much worse
What in the name of Holy Fucketty Fuck-Fuck did they think they were doing? It makes Dom's eye test drivel look like a modest, understandable transgression of the rules
Maybe we should be focus on the SE Blue Wall for GE 2024, to see how that holds up?
Piers Morgan?
That singer out The Smiths?
So GET BREXIT DONE, LEVEL UP, NO NEW TAXES BUT MUCH MORE SPENDING ?
So no, I will certainly not retract
The slow attrition via leak does look as though it might have been designed to play into that.
Either slightly fortuitous, or a master political assassin at work.
And in what universe would Boris ever think 'let's come clean' the way to go ?
The party investigation, even from the police, doesn’t carry the same level of punishment, massive reputation damage yes for Boris and the party, but vonk still in hands what you call the fearties.
My suspicion is, if they got the numbers to win a vonk, the Tory finish Boris squad will now try to organise a parliamentary investigation into Boris, not one he can set up himself, manipulate, and carries no sanction. It will go down into the history books as the wallpaper what got him.
“ Boris referred the request for the exhibition to the cabinet office who rejected it”
Is that actually right Big G? I thought Boris sent his minister along and the thing is happening? Will there be a stand with wallpaper at this exhibition?
Could it be appealed and go back before a judge? Will they need to be sure the judge agrees this time?
Question: Will QEII live to see Hinkley Point C generate electricity?
I doubt if many non-political people anywhere think in terms of "big state" or "small state" - those are abstract terms. But if you translate it into a specific service - most obviously the NHS, but also decent schools, buses and trains - then people are mostly quite keen on a big state.
Before he’s sent to the wall, and hung up to dry.
But don't worry, it will generate lots of revenue for Bechtel.