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Four months of the weekly local by-election bet – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited January 2022
    Argentina recorded 110,000 cases yesterday

    We know Omicron is kinda catchy, but still. Wow

    Argentina only has a population of 25m. 110,000 reported cases could easily mean 250,000 actual cases. That's 1% of the country catching it in a day
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    edited January 2022
    Omnium said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Omnium said:

    Streeting flying it that Labour will mostly be Tories, What a,

    What?
    Indeed. Ghastly.
    What did he say? Left variant New Tankie* thinking? As in we must purify ourselves of all those who are to the right of us, until the party consists of me and my mum and I'm not sure about my mum?

    *All New Tankies have Covenanters.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Better than being a stooge of a stooge of William Barr.
    Ah, I see so now we are getting to the “John Durham is obviously a Republican stooge so we cannot believe anything he says?” Wow. You really are willing to go overboard. If there is one thing Durham can’t be accused of, it’s being a stooge.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Hull city ahead.....

    Tuned in and it is Swansea v Southampton in an empty stadium via Drakeford's diktat

    Tuned into BBC London just as Hull scored with lots of happy supporters enjoying a traditional cup tie

    Drakeford is being shown up for his draconian controlling attitude
    Chesterfield COVID super spreader event as 6,000 headed to Stamford Bridge for their likely thrashing at the hands of Chelsea.

    I have been very ill since Tuesday and was confirmed as COVID on Thursday via LFT and follow up PCR.

    Our best wishes to you @bigjohnowls . Hope you get over it soon
  • Everton world class !!!!!!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Everton are pretty decent.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Hull city ahead.....

    Tuned in and it is Swansea v Southampton in an empty stadium via Drakeford's diktat

    Tuned into BBC London just as Hull scored with lots of happy supporters enjoying a traditional cup tie

    Drakeford is being shown up for his draconian controlling attitude
    Chesterfield COVID super spreader event as 6,000 headed to Stamford Bridge for their likely thrashing at the hands of Chelsea.

    I have been very ill since Tuesday and was confirmed as COVID on Thursday via LFT and follow up PCR.

    Sorry to hear that BJO.

    It is very infectious and only my two granddaughters and ourselves have not had it so far

    Get well soon
    Thanks I am living upstairs.

    Mrs BJO is still testing negative hopefully it stays that way
    Good luck BJO. Plenty of hot toddies.
  • dixiedean said:

    Everton are pretty decent.

    In Rafa we trust.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Everton world class !!!!!!

    I thought they were sh1t ten minutes ago.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,695
    MrEd said:

    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Better than being a stooge of a stooge of William Barr.
    Ah, I see so now we are getting to the “John Durham is obviously a Republican stooge so we cannot believe anything he says?” Wow. You really are willing to go overboard. If there is one thing Durham can’t be accused of, it’s being a stooge.
    Interesting you went straight to John Durham. We both know the game you are playing.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Omnium said:

    Streeting flying it that Labour will mostly be Tories, What a,

    What?
    Indeed. Ghastly.
    What did he say? Left variant New Tankie* thinking? As in we must purify ourselves of all those who are to the right of us, until the party consists of me and my mum and I'm not sure about my mum?

    *All New Tankies have Covenanters.
    You may wish to get a grip of yourself.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Leon said:

    Argentina recorded 110,000 cases yesterday

    We know Omicron is kinda catchy, but still. Wow

    Argentina only has a population of 25m. 110,000 reported cases could easily mean 250,000 actual cases. That's 1% of the country catching it in a day

    and next door in Brazil less than half that 54,000. in a nation 6 times larger!

    Which is clearly because of:

    1) less testing
    2) accumulated immunity with from brazils less server restrictions over the whole pandemic
    3) it has just not reached brazil yet

    Delete 1, 2, or 3 as required to match your Point of view.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited January 2022
    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Better than being a stooge of a stooge of William Barr.
    Ah, I see so now we are getting to the “John Durham is obviously a Republican stooge so we cannot believe anything he says?” Wow. You really are willing to go overboard. If there is one thing Durham can’t be accused of, it’s being a stooge.
    Interesting you went straight to John Durham. We both know the game you are playing.
    Go on, why do you explain it for those who are not as obviously brilliant as yourself?
  • MrEd said:

    Everton world class !!!!!!

    I thought they were sh1t ten minutes ago.
    Tongue in cheek
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2022
    London cases may be so flat that this time next week they might be going up (marginally again)
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Hull city ahead.....

    Tuned in and it is Swansea v Southampton in an empty stadium via Drakeford's diktat

    Tuned into BBC London just as Hull scored with lots of happy supporters enjoying a traditional cup tie

    Drakeford is being shown up for his draconian controlling attitude
    Chesterfield COVID super spreader event as 6,000 headed to Stamford Bridge for their likely thrashing at the hands of Chelsea.

    I have been very ill since Tuesday and was confirmed as COVID on Thursday via LFT and follow up PCR.

    Sorry to hear that BJO.

    It is very infectious and only my two granddaughters and ourselves have not had it so far

    Get well soon
    Thanks I am living upstairs.

    Mrs BJO is still testing negative hopefully it stays that way
    Hope you feel better soon :)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Why is my autocorrect not autocorrecting anything.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    Do you mean R0?

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00559-2/fulltext

    The original strain of SARS-CoV-2 has an R0 of 2·5, while the delta variant (B.1.617.2) has an R0 of just under 7. Martin Hibberd, professor of emerging infectious diseases at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine (London, UK), reckons omicron's R0 could be as high as 10.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    BigRich said:

    Leon said:

    Argentina recorded 110,000 cases yesterday

    We know Omicron is kinda catchy, but still. Wow

    Argentina only has a population of 25m. 110,000 reported cases could easily mean 250,000 actual cases. That's 1% of the country catching it in a day

    and next door in Brazil less than half that 54,000. in a nation 6 times larger!

    Which is clearly because of:

    1) less testing
    2) accumulated immunity with from brazils less server restrictions over the whole pandemic
    3) it has just not reached brazil yet

    Delete 1, 2, or 3 as required to match your Point of view.
    Didn't realise this: Argentina has already suffered 117,000 deaths and 6m cases. Nearly the same deaths as France with less than half the population

    Covid really fucked with Latin America
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    As far as I understand it's actually not that plausible to be more deadly, more transmissible and vax evasive.

    There was a quote a year ago from the inventor of the Oxford vaccine along the lines that the way the vaccines worked (targeting the spike protein) meant that anything that evolved to be evade the vaccine shouldn't be as deadly because it wouldn't spike as well.

    So it has turned out. Omicron is more evasive but doesn't spike as well hence being dominant in throats rather than lungs and organs. Which makes it less deadly.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Hull city ahead.....

    Tuned in and it is Swansea v Southampton in an empty stadium via Drakeford's diktat

    Tuned into BBC London just as Hull scored with lots of happy supporters enjoying a traditional cup tie

    Drakeford is being shown up for his draconian controlling attitude
    Chesterfield COVID super spreader event as 6,000 headed to Stamford Bridge for their likely thrashing at the hands of Chelsea.

    I have been very ill since Tuesday and was confirmed as COVID on Thursday via LFT and follow up PCR.

    Best wishes for a swift recovery Mr Owls.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Alistair said:

    London cases may be so flat that this time next week they might be going up (marginally again)

    Why do you think that?

    image

    Interestingly, the regional R numbers are re-converging, on a downward trend.

    image

    They tend to spread out as waves occur, as the different region get different levels of infection.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Anyone who thinks the Dems attempted a coup to overturn the 2016 election result needs the mendacious or moron test applied to anything they say.

    And moron can be safely ruled out. There are no morons on a site where more people than not understand how spacetime struts its stuff!
    Well, Kinabalu, you were pontificating this week about how we could not say the Coulston defendants had committed criminal damage because they had been acquitted of the charges.

    Since the FBI has not charged anyone with sedition or insurrection, then surely the Jan 6 rioters cannot be accused of sedition and insurrection either if you would apply your own standards to another case? Or that doesn’t work if it doesn’t fit with your views……
    I was - can we go with 'pointing out' rather than 'pontificating'? - pointing out that saying one accepts the verdict AND the act was criminal means one doesn't really accept the verdict.

    The mental gymnastics needed to map this onto the Jan 6th Capitol proceedings in any meaningful way are not for me on a Saturday night.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    Do you mean R0?

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00559-2/fulltext

    The original strain of SARS-CoV-2 has an R0 of 2·5, while the delta variant (B.1.617.2) has an R0 of just under 7. Martin Hibberd, professor of emerging infectious diseases at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine (London, UK), reckons omicron's R0 could be as high as 10.
    Yes, that one. I believe R0 can be assessed different ways depending on whether the population is entirely naive, or has some immunity etc (Re)

    Anyway, fuck me with a golden pilchard. R10 is extremely high. That means Omicron is just about up there with Chickenpox and Measles, two of the most infectious diseases we have known



    https://transportgeography.org/contents/applications/transportation-pandemics/basic-reproduction-number-r0-of-major-infectious-diseases/


  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Alistair said:

    London cases may be so flat that this time next week they might be going up (marginally again)

    By specimen date there's a lot of weird Xmas related reporting issues. It won't be until next week before we know what the situation actually looks like.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Perhaps you should report these incidents to the "prejudice reporting in education" database.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    I think its not so much that Omicron has a high R rate, though it is also will be pretty high, its more that its reproduction time is so short.

    That is IIRC between catching Delta and giving it to somebody else was a typical 5 day delay (ish and with caviants)

    With Omicron it is much less possibly only 2 days.

    So in a 10 day window, delta will have 2 generations and Omicron will have 5.

    if we assume an R of 2 that means that:

    For delta - 1 infect 2 infects 4, tend days later 4 people and 7 in total.

    For Omicron 1 infects 2 infect 4 infects 8 infects 16 infects 32, which is 63 in total.

    So that's 9 times more people in total and 8 times more in the last generation ready to infect again.


    I suspect that accurate R numbers for all the variants may never be known, but it is possible that the R for Omicron may even be less than Delta, but with such a short reproduction time it does not matter.

    Does that make sense?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    Hull city ahead.....

    Tuned in and it is Swansea v Southampton in an empty stadium via Drakeford's diktat

    Tuned into BBC London just as Hull scored with lots of happy supporters enjoying a traditional cup tie

    Drakeford is being shown up for his draconian controlling attitude
    Chesterfield COVID super spreader event as 6,000 headed to Stamford Bridge for their likely thrashing at the hands of Chelsea.

    I have been very ill since Tuesday and was confirmed as COVID on Thursday via LFT and follow up PCR.

    @bigjohnowls
    Good Luck John, Hope you get better soon.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    London cases may be so flat that this time next week they might be going up (marginally again)

    Why do you think that?
    Already got an "incomplete" (by gov dashboard standard) day with a higher week on week figure week on week
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Argentina recorded 110,000 cases yesterday

    We know Omicron is kinda catchy, but still. Wow

    Argentina only has a population of 25m. 110,000 reported cases could easily mean 250,000 actual cases. That's 1% of the country catching it in a day

    I think you mean 45 million...

    Argentina have relied on a lot of Russian and Chinese vaccines, as well as AZN.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jul/22/argentina-sputnik-vaccine-russia-fails-to-deliver
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    As far as I understand it's actually not that plausible to be more deadly, more transmissible and vax evasive.

    There was a quote a year ago from the inventor of the Oxford vaccine along the lines that the way the vaccines worked (targeting the spike protein) meant that anything that evolved to be evade the vaccine shouldn't be as deadly because it wouldn't spike as well.

    So it has turned out. Omicron is more evasive but doesn't spike as well hence being dominant in throats rather than lungs and organs. Which makes it less deadly.
    I'm not sure we are disagreeing. The boffin I read said that it was unlikely to get more transmissible AND more evasive and lethal, but neither should we presume it couldn't happen. It really could

    Thank fuck it didn't. Or hasn't. Yet
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Argentina recorded 110,000 cases yesterday

    We know Omicron is kinda catchy, but still. Wow

    Argentina only has a population of 25m. 110,000 reported cases could easily mean 250,000 actual cases. That's 1% of the country catching it in a day

    I think you mean 45 million...

    Argentina have relied on a lot of Russian and Chinese vaccines, as well as AZN.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jul/22/argentina-sputnik-vaccine-russia-fails-to-deliver
    Indeed. My bad. I was speed reading Wikipedia

    That's still a horribly high death rate
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Anyone who thinks the Dems attempted a coup to overturn the 2016 election result needs the mendacious or moron test applied to anything they say.

    And moron can be safely ruled out. There are no morons on a site where more people than not understand how spacetime struts its stuff!
    Well, Kinabalu, you were pontificating this week about how we could not say the Coulston defendants had committed criminal damage because they had been acquitted of the charges.

    Since the FBI has not charged anyone with sedition or insurrection, then surely the Jan 6 rioters cannot be accused of sedition and insurrection either if you would apply your own standards to another case? Or that doesn’t work if it doesn’t fit with your views……
    I was - can we go with 'pointing out' rather than 'pontificating'? - pointing out that saying one accepts the verdict AND the act was criminal means one doesn't really accept the verdict.

    The mental gymnastics needed to map this onto the Jan 6th Capitol proceedings in any meaningful way are not for me on a Saturday night.
    What you said was they couldn’t be said to have committed criminal damage because they had been cleared. So all that doing is applying your logic to this.

    Much as you are trying to wriggle out of it, your basic problem is that, if we accept your original argument (as I did), then you can’t call the Jan 6 rioters insurrectionists. You can believe they are but you can’t state it as a fact.

    Not that hard.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    BigRich said:

    pigeon said:

    I note from the Covid numbers that the hospital patient total for England has stabilised over the last three days, and admissions appear also to have stopped climbing based on the most recent available numbers. Any likelihood that we may be at or approaching peak Omicron already?

    I think that in England at least, transitions have already peeked, reported cases and hospitalisations are both lagging indicators. Reported cases only by a bit but are also affected by Bank holiday effect.

    I was surprised to see the total in hospital has also dropped very slightly today! it feels too soon, and I suspect will be revised up slightly in the next few days.

    Time now, or very soon, to drop the last of the restrictions, in particular the 7 day minimum isolation even for non-symptomatic and masks in schools
    There is a peak - for now - of admissions on 29th Dec, which coincides with a peak of cases. This is peculiar. I think it can be explained by the large proportion of admissions which are incidental, but other theories may fit better.
  • I almost never use Twitter but have been for months getting push notifications of Tweets for people I don't follow who clearly have an antivaxx agenda. I don't know why and it's really irritating and I wonder how many other people are getting this bullshit spread to them by Twitter?

    This week I've had multiple Tweet push notifications all along the line of "my husband/wife/mother died from an aneurysm/blood clot/heart inflammation days after their booster jab". Clearly bullshit and again not from anyone I follow.

    What the hell is Twitter playing at pushing this misinformation and junk to people?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Anyone who thinks the Dems attempted a coup to overturn the 2016 election result needs the mendacious or moron test applied to anything they say.

    And moron can be safely ruled out. There are no morons on a site where more people than not understand how spacetime struts its stuff!
    Well, Kinabalu, you were pontificating this week about how we could not say the Coulston defendants had committed criminal damage because they had been acquitted of the charges.

    Since the FBI has not charged anyone with sedition or insurrection, then surely the Jan 6 rioters cannot be accused of sedition and insurrection either if you would apply your own standards to another case? Or that doesn’t work if it doesn’t fit with your views……
    There's a difference between not being charged yet, which keeps the possibility open, and actually tried and let off.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    BigRich said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    I think its not so much that Omicron has a high R rate, though it is also will be pretty high, its more that its reproduction time is so short.

    That is IIRC between catching Delta and giving it to somebody else was a typical 5 day delay (ish and with caviants)

    With Omicron it is much less possibly only 2 days.

    So in a 10 day window, delta will have 2 generations and Omicron will have 5.

    if we assume an R of 2 that means that:

    For delta - 1 infect 2 infects 4, tend days later 4 people and 7 in total.

    For Omicron 1 infects 2 infect 4 infects 8 infects 16 infects 32, which is 63 in total.

    So that's 9 times more people in total and 8 times more in the last generation ready to infect again.


    I suspect that accurate R numbers for all the variants may never be known, but it is possible that the R for Omicron may even be less than Delta, but with such a short reproduction time it does not matter.

    Does that make sense?
    Er, not really, but that's not your fault - my brain is now so clogged with differing opinions, data, stats, numbers on Covid I may have reached saturation point and I am unable to cogently process anything more. Hence my dumb mistake about Argentina's population


    eg The other day I read a very authoritative person on Twitter saying "it has now been proved that asymptomatic transmission is a myth"

    Wait, what? Is it? Has it? That seems quite a major discovery, as one of Covid's key advantages, it was thought, is the way it can pass between people with no symptoms (yet)

    Do we no longer believe this? Did I miss something?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    I almost never use Twitter but have been for months getting push notifications of Tweets for people I don't follow who clearly have an antivaxx agenda. I don't know why and it's really irritating and I wonder how many other people are getting this bullshit spread to them by Twitter?

    This week I've had multiple Tweet push notifications all along the line of "my husband/wife/mother died from an aneurysm/blood clot/heart inflammation days after their booster jab". Clearly bullshit and again not from anyone I follow.

    What the hell is Twitter playing at pushing this misinformation and junk to people?

    Free market?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    MrEd said:

    Aslan said:

    Much of the Steele Dossier has been proven true, including multiple secret contacts between the Russians and the Trump campaign, Trump seeking a major real estate deal in Russia during the election, Russian meddling in the 2016 election, and payments to Michael Flynn from Moscow.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/07/politics/dossier-two-years-later/index.html

    Dear Oh Lord. Was that a research fail on your part or were you trying to deliberately mislead people who would just accept your words without checking the link.

    First of all, it’s CNN, which is not exactly the most unbiased of sources (and if you think CNN is neutral, well…). Second, it’s dated January 2019 - guess what, a lot has happened since then…

    Have you heard of the Dunham Special Counsel investigation and what’s been happening. Here’s some links - they are not CNN and they are not Fox.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/580391-durhams-latest-indictment-more-lines-drawn-to-clintons-campaign?amp

    https://jonathanturley.org/2021/11/04/igor-danchenko-arrested-as-part-of-durham-investigation/

    The fact you couldn't negate any of my specific comments and that you are going into "CNN not to be trusted, they are just like Fox" then citing an opinion piece just shows your ridiculous bias.

    And again, none of this comes close to an armed, violent occupation of Congress during an election count, complete with nooses and death threats. You are just engaging in muddying the waters and whataboutism to take attention away from proto-fascists striking at the very roots of Western freedom.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    The basic reproduction rate is high but not the highest known, but that combined with the short serial interval (the time between cases in a chain of transmission) may make it effectively the fastest growing virus seen in modern history. It's the combination of how many new cases arise at each step and how soon a new step begins that makes it so problematic. In the Omicron variant we have a virus that is as transmissible as something like mumps or rubella that reproduces as fast as influenza.


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022

    I almost never use Twitter but have been for months getting push notifications of Tweets for people I don't follow who clearly have an antivaxx agenda. I don't know why and it's really irritating and I wonder how many other people are getting this bullshit spread to them by Twitter?

    This week I've had multiple Tweet push notifications all along the line of "my husband/wife/mother died from an aneurysm/blood clot/heart inflammation days after their booster jab". Clearly bullshit and again not from anyone I follow.

    What the hell is Twitter playing at pushing this misinformation and junk to people?

    I don't know what twitter have changed, i am all of a sudden getting pushed constant stuff from political "extremists" (by this i mean people who have a single agenda that they push all day every day) particular left wing, none of whom i follow. My timeline is filled full of the latest rantings of James oBrien, Bad Al etc.

    I basically don't follow anybody political, its all science, machine learning, covid and some crypto / finance.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Report from my local gastropub in north London suburbia.

    Packed.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    darkage said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Perhaps you should report these incidents to the "prejudice reporting in education" database.
    I think you’re right. Actually, I think these outpourings of moral condemnations are actually hate crimes and need to be investigated as such.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Anyone who thinks the Dems attempted a coup to overturn the 2016 election result needs the mendacious or moron test applied to anything they say.

    And moron can be safely ruled out. There are no morons on a site where more people than not understand how spacetime struts its stuff!
    Well, Kinabalu, you were pontificating this week about how we could not say the Coulston defendants had committed criminal damage because they had been acquitted of the charges.

    Since the FBI has not charged anyone with sedition or insurrection, then surely the Jan 6 rioters cannot be accused of sedition and insurrection either if you would apply your own standards to another case? Or that doesn’t work if it doesn’t fit with your views……
    I was - can we go with 'pointing out' rather than 'pontificating'? - pointing out that saying one accepts the verdict AND the act was criminal means one doesn't really accept the verdict.

    The mental gymnastics needed to map this onto the Jan 6th Capitol proceedings in any meaningful way are not for me on a Saturday night.
    What you said was they couldn’t be said to have committed criminal damage because they had been cleared. So all that doing is applying your logic to this.

    Much as you are trying to wriggle out of it, your basic problem is that, if we accept your original argument (as I did), then you can’t call the Jan 6 rioters insurrectionists. You can believe they are but you can’t state it as a fact.

    Not that hard.
    Silly and wrong thing for Kinabalu to have said, because rules of evidence are limited in scope. You can't sentence the 4 to a punishment for CD, because imposing punishments is part of the same game as finding them guilty, and you have to be careful about defamation issues because you risk placing yourself inside a related game where the same rules apply. But apart from that you can think what you like. Parliament could introduce an irrebuttable presumption in English law that the value of pi is exactly 3, and that is what it would be, within the game. Doesn't stop outsiders from believing different.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    How have I (so far, knowingly) managed to dodge omicron? I have been to double figures of packed, unmasked pubs over Christmas, hosted 20 people at my own house, and attended a belting New Years house party. I must be ludicrously lucky. I don’t expect my luck to last!!
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Leon said:

    BigRich said:

    Leon said:

    Argentina recorded 110,000 cases yesterday

    We know Omicron is kinda catchy, but still. Wow

    Argentina only has a population of 25m. 110,000 reported cases could easily mean 250,000 actual cases. That's 1% of the country catching it in a day

    and next door in Brazil less than half that 54,000. in a nation 6 times larger!

    Which is clearly because of:

    1) less testing
    2) accumulated immunity with from brazils less server restrictions over the whole pandemic
    3) it has just not reached brazil yet

    Delete 1, 2, or 3 as required to match your Point of view.
    Didn't realise this: Argentina has already suffered 117,000 deaths and 6m cases. Nearly the same deaths as France with less than half the population

    Covid really fucked with Latin America
    Argentina had IIRC the longest unbroken Lockdown in the would, and as good as a complete ban on people coming in or out, while Brazil has been at almost the other end of the spectrum, but the results in terms of deaths per million over the whole pandemic are not that different.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    The basic reproduction rate is high but not the highest known, but that combined with the short serial interval (the time between cases in a chain of transmission) may make it effectively the fastest growing virus seen in modern history. It's the combination of how many new cases arise at each step and how soon a new step begins that makes it so problematic. In the Omicron variant we have a virus that is as transmissible as something like mumps or rubella that reproduces as fast as influenza.


    For this layman, could you elaborate what you mean by "short serial interval"- what does that mean and how does it work in the real world?

    I would be genuinely grateful. It sounds important!
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Here's a great article from 1941 about "Who goes Nazi?" in polite liberal society.

    https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/

    I can definitely recognize many of the types discussed on PB.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    I almost never use Twitter but have been for months getting push notifications of Tweets for people I don't follow who clearly have an antivaxx agenda. I don't know why and it's really irritating and I wonder how many other people are getting this bullshit spread to them by Twitter?

    This week I've had multiple Tweet push notifications all along the line of "my husband/wife/mother died from an aneurysm/blood clot/heart inflammation days after their booster jab". Clearly bullshit and again not from anyone I follow.

    What the hell is Twitter playing at pushing this misinformation and junk to people?

    I keep getting notifications about what the Skwawkbox tweets because I once demolished one of his nutty posts, so it assumes I follow them!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    How have I (so far, knowingly) managed to dodge omicron? I have been to double figures of packed, unmasked pubs over Christmas, hosted 20 people at my own house, and attended a belting New Years house party. I must be ludicrously lucky. I don’t expect my luck to last!!
    Or, you had it but it was so mild you didn't even have a sniffle
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    As far as I understand it's actually not that plausible to be more deadly, more transmissible and vax evasive.

    There was a quote a year ago from the inventor of the Oxford vaccine along the lines that the way the vaccines worked (targeting the spike protein) meant that anything that evolved to be evade the vaccine shouldn't be as deadly because it wouldn't spike as well.

    So it has turned out. Omicron is more evasive but doesn't spike as well hence being dominant in throats rather than lungs and organs. Which makes it less deadly.
    I'm not sure we are disagreeing. The boffin I read said that it was unlikely to get more transmissible AND more evasive and lethal, but neither should we presume it couldn't happen. It really could

    Thank fuck it didn't. Or hasn't. Yet
    I’m not an epidemiologist, but where’s the evolutionary pressure on omicron? It’s having a whale of a time, reproducing happily in healthy, barely affected, very mobile, hosts. It’s like a pig in shit.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I almost never use Twitter but have been for months getting push notifications of Tweets for people I don't follow who clearly have an antivaxx agenda. I don't know why and it's really irritating and I wonder how many other people are getting this bullshit spread to them by Twitter?

    This week I've had multiple Tweet push notifications all along the line of "my husband/wife/mother died from an aneurysm/blood clot/heart inflammation days after their booster jab". Clearly bullshit and again not from anyone I follow.

    What the hell is Twitter playing at pushing this misinformation and junk to people?

    It's because I keep signing you up to anti vacc newsgroups. The Bartification was a wise move, but too little too late.
  • I almost never use Twitter but have been for months getting push notifications of Tweets for people I don't follow who clearly have an antivaxx agenda. I don't know why and it's really irritating and I wonder how many other people are getting this bullshit spread to them by Twitter?

    This week I've had multiple Tweet push notifications all along the line of "my husband/wife/mother died from an aneurysm/blood clot/heart inflammation days after their booster jab". Clearly bullshit and again not from anyone I follow.

    What the hell is Twitter playing at pushing this misinformation and junk to people?

    I don't know what twitter have changed, i am all of a sudden getting pushed constant stuff from political "extremists" (by this i mean people who have a single agenda that they push all day every day) particular left wing, none of whom i follow. My timeline is filled full of the latest rantings of James oBrien, Bad Al etc.

    I basically don't follow anybody political, its all science, machine learning, covid and some crypto / finance.
    I'm getting that too. As you said leftwingers almost exclusively plus antivaxxers. None of whom I follow.

    I have no idea what they're playing at. Its certainly not based on who I'm following or my own Tweet history (which is almost exclusively Tweeting at the customer services of large companies I wanted to escalate an issue with).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited January 2022
    BigRich said:

    Leon said:

    BigRich said:

    Leon said:

    Argentina recorded 110,000 cases yesterday

    We know Omicron is kinda catchy, but still. Wow

    Argentina only has a population of 25m. 110,000 reported cases could easily mean 250,000 actual cases. That's 1% of the country catching it in a day

    and next door in Brazil less than half that 54,000. in a nation 6 times larger!

    Which is clearly because of:

    1) less testing
    2) accumulated immunity with from brazils less server restrictions over the whole pandemic
    3) it has just not reached brazil yet

    Delete 1, 2, or 3 as required to match your Point of view.
    Didn't realise this: Argentina has already suffered 117,000 deaths and 6m cases. Nearly the same deaths as France with less than half the population

    Covid really fucked with Latin America
    Argentina had IIRC the longest unbroken Lockdown in the would, and as good as a complete ban on people coming in or out, while Brazil has been at almost the other end of the spectrum, but the results in terms of deaths per million over the whole pandemic are not that different.
    Neither of them is a patch on Ecauador, if I remember rightly. I think they managed close to 3x the normal number of deaths in 2021.

    Edit to add: which I assume is due to altitude meaning that there's less oxygen to go around. You get sick in the lungs in Quito, and you might well end up Quitoed.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Aslan said:

    MrEd said:

    Aslan said:

    Much of the Steele Dossier has been proven true, including multiple secret contacts between the Russians and the Trump campaign, Trump seeking a major real estate deal in Russia during the election, Russian meddling in the 2016 election, and payments to Michael Flynn from Moscow.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/07/politics/dossier-two-years-later/index.html

    Dear Oh Lord. Was that a research fail on your part or were you trying to deliberately mislead people who would just accept your words without checking the link.

    First of all, it’s CNN, which is not exactly the most unbiased of sources (and if you think CNN is neutral, well…). Second, it’s dated January 2019 - guess what, a lot has happened since then…

    Have you heard of the Dunham Special Counsel investigation and what’s been happening. Here’s some links - they are not CNN and they are not Fox.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/580391-durhams-latest-indictment-more-lines-drawn-to-clintons-campaign?amp

    https://jonathanturley.org/2021/11/04/igor-danchenko-arrested-as-part-of-durham-investigation/

    The fact you couldn't negate any of my specific comments and that you are going into "CNN not to be trusted, they are just like Fox" then citing an opinion piece just shows your ridiculous bias.

    And again, none of this comes close to an armed, violent occupation of Congress during an election count, complete with nooses and death threats. You are just engaging in muddying the waters and whataboutism to take attention away from proto-fascists striking at the very roots of Western freedom.
    I didn’t choose to negate it because we are in the middle of a Special Investigation that has uncovered far more facts and, in some cases, contradicts your CNN report. In fact, the facts are completely making the CNN report look like a particularly bad example of how badly some things age.

    As for the opinion piece, Jonathan Turley happens to be one of the best legal commentators out there, certainly not a Trumpist. He’s represented - and got off - those accused of being Islamic terrorists. The idea he is some Trumpist wannabe is a fantasy on your part.

    Still, as I said to Kinabalu, no one has been charged of sedition and insurrection so you seem to be making some mental leaps…
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Report from my local gastropub in north London suburbia.

    Packed.

    Anecdote from my Mum's village local in Norfolk yesterday. Also packed, apparently.

    Signs that people, or most of us at any rate, are exhausted of Covid, of scare stories about Covid, of rules about Covid.

    Victory over Covid Day isn't here yet, but it's within sight. It's still no fun for the healthcare workers slogging the last few hard yards, still less for the poor buggers who are going to be amongst the last casualties before the war is over. But it looks like we're nearly there, thank goodness.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    I almost never use Twitter but have been for months getting push notifications of Tweets for people I don't follow who clearly have an antivaxx agenda. I don't know why and it's really irritating and I wonder how many other people are getting this bullshit spread to them by Twitter?

    This week I've had multiple Tweet push notifications all along the line of "my husband/wife/mother died from an aneurysm/blood clot/heart inflammation days after their booster jab". Clearly bullshit and again not from anyone I follow.

    What the hell is Twitter playing at pushing this misinformation and junk to people?

    I don't know what twitter have changed, i am all of a sudden getting pushed constant stuff from political "extremists" (by this i mean people who have a single agenda that they push all day every day) particular left wing, none of whom i follow. My timeline is filled full of the latest rantings of James oBrien, Bad Al etc.

    I basically don't follow anybody political, its all science, machine learning, covid and some crypto / finance.
    I'm getting that too. As you said leftwingers almost exclusively plus antivaxxers. None of whom I follow.

    I have no idea what they're playing at. Its certainly not based on who I'm following or my own Tweet history (which is almost exclusively Tweeting at the customer services of large companies I wanted to escalate an issue with).
    What’s interesting is that the new Twitter CEO is a lot more pro-censorship and certainly seen as more “woke” than Dorsey. Twitter now is effectively a sub-set of Google.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    How have I (so far, knowingly) managed to dodge omicron? I have been to double figures of packed, unmasked pubs over Christmas, hosted 20 people at my own house, and attended a belting New Years house party. I must be ludicrously lucky. I don’t expect my luck to last!!
    Or, you had it but it was so mild you didn't even have a sniffle
    It’s possible - very possible - I guess. Did a test this morning for family reasons and it was clear though. Odd.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    The basic reproduction rate is high but not the highest known, but that combined with the short serial interval (the time between cases in a chain of transmission) may make it effectively the fastest growing virus seen in modern history. It's the combination of how many new cases arise at each step and how soon a new step begins that makes it so problematic. In the Omicron variant we have a virus that is as transmissible as something like mumps or rubella that reproduces as fast as influenza.


    For this layman, could you elaborate what you mean by "short serial interval"- what does that mean and how does it work in the real world?

    I would be genuinely grateful. It sounds important!
    It is the time between person A becoming symptomatic — then person A infecting person B — and person B becoming symptomatic. The shorter that interval is the sooner new cases can occur, the longer it is the more time we have to intervene.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    MrEd said:

    darkage said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Perhaps you should report these incidents to the "prejudice reporting in education" database.
    I think you’re right. Actually, I think these outpourings of moral condemnations are actually hate crimes and need to be investigated as such.
    In the end, the educated progressives always know best and don't like being told otherwise.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    As far as I understand it's actually not that plausible to be more deadly, more transmissible and vax evasive.

    There was a quote a year ago from the inventor of the Oxford vaccine along the lines that the way the vaccines worked (targeting the spike protein) meant that anything that evolved to be evade the vaccine shouldn't be as deadly because it wouldn't spike as well.

    So it has turned out. Omicron is more evasive but doesn't spike as well hence being dominant in throats rather than lungs and organs. Which makes it less deadly.
    I'm not sure we are disagreeing. The boffin I read said that it was unlikely to get more transmissible AND more evasive and lethal, but neither should we presume it couldn't happen. It really could

    Thank fuck it didn't. Or hasn't. Yet
    I’m not an epidemiologist, but where’s the evolutionary pressure on omicron? It’s having a whale of a time, reproducing happily in healthy, barely affected, very mobile, hosts. It’s like a pig in shit.
    Lol - who Off Topiced me? 😂
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    RobD said:

    ping said:

    Great news from the James Webb.

    Looks like the mirrors have deployed successfully.

    Can someone explain something to me please?

    I understand that this is looking for images that date to the earliest stars in the universe which have had to travel billions of light years to reach us, which explains why we can essentially "look back in time" to the first stars in the universe.

    But what I don't understand is why that light hasn't passed us by already?

    Unless we've been travelling from the origins of the universe at either the speed of light or faster than it, why haven't we already missed those images?

    It's fortuitous that we haven't but that's the one bit I don't understand so if someone who understands astrophysics better could answer that question I'd be very curious.
    The universe expanded faster than the speed of light. So things that were very close to us back when the universe was born are now extremely far away, so far that it takes as long as the age of the universe to see them.
    Thanks that helps a bit. I wonder how that worked? I thought faster than speed of light was science fiction.

    I can understand eg if we're traveling at 0.7c in one direction and something else is traveling at 0.7c in another direction then relatively that is expansion of faster than the speed of light, without actually traveling faster than it.

    But we aren't looking for where those stars are now, we are looking for where they were then.

    These stars we are looking for I would have thought wouldn't have had relatively that much time to travel in the opposite direction by when they emitted the light we are looking for. What am I missing?
    There is more universe than we can see. Our "visible horizon" is not the edge of space. Think of it like standing on a hill on the Isle of Man. On the horizon you can see Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales, but there is a lot more world beyond your visible horizon.

    The other point is that while nothing can travel through spacetime faster than light, spacetime itself can expand faster than light (because spacetime is stretching, not travelling through itself)
    What’s beyond the edge of space?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Anyone who thinks the Dems attempted a coup to overturn the 2016 election result needs the mendacious or moron test applied to anything they say.

    And moron can be safely ruled out. There are no morons on a site where more people than not understand how spacetime struts its stuff!
    Well, Kinabalu, you were pontificating this week about how we could not say the Coulston defendants had committed criminal damage because they had been acquitted of the charges.

    Since the FBI has not charged anyone with sedition or insurrection, then surely the Jan 6 rioters cannot be accused of sedition and insurrection either if you would apply your own standards to another case? Or that doesn’t work if it doesn’t fit with your views……
    I was - can we go with 'pointing out' rather than 'pontificating'? - pointing out that saying one accepts the verdict AND the act was criminal means one doesn't really accept the verdict.

    The mental gymnastics needed to map this onto the Jan 6th Capitol proceedings in any meaningful way are not for me on a Saturday night.
    What you said was they couldn’t be said to have committed criminal damage because they had been cleared. So all that doing is applying your logic to this.

    Much as you are trying to wriggle out of it, your basic problem is that, if we accept your original argument (as I did), then you can’t call the Jan 6 rioters insurrectionists. You can believe they are but you can’t state it as a fact.

    Not that hard.
    Ed, the topic merits better than this.

    You - for reasons you'll know and I can't - have got yourself into such a lather about 'wokeness' and the Dems and the 'libs', that whole side of life, that you are prepared to defend and go along with what no decent person should defend or go along with.

    This, my friend, is the truth. You'd be better off speaking it plainly rather than attempting all this softhead sophistry.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    How have I (so far, knowingly) managed to dodge omicron? I have been to double figures of packed, unmasked pubs over Christmas, hosted 20 people at my own house, and attended a belting New Years house party. I must be ludicrously lucky. I don’t expect my luck to last!!
    We've avoided Covid so far, without being particularly careful (masks aside). I'm not expecting this status to last long ...

    I do wonder if there's some genetic aspect to getting and avoiding the worst of Covid. It's perfectly possible for you (or us) to have had it without realising. Something that may not always be picked up even by the antibody survey.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    ping said:

    Great news from the James Webb.

    Looks like the mirrors have deployed successfully.

    Can someone explain something to me please?

    I understand that this is looking for images that date to the earliest stars in the universe which have had to travel billions of light years to reach us, which explains why we can essentially "look back in time" to the first stars in the universe.

    But what I don't understand is why that light hasn't passed us by already?

    Unless we've been travelling from the origins of the universe at either the speed of light or faster than it, why haven't we already missed those images?

    It's fortuitous that we haven't but that's the one bit I don't understand so if someone who understands astrophysics better could answer that question I'd be very curious.
    The universe expanded faster than the speed of light. So things that were very close to us back when the universe was born are now extremely far away, so far that it takes as long as the age of the universe to see them.
    Thanks that helps a bit. I wonder how that worked? I thought faster than speed of light was science fiction.

    I can understand eg if we're traveling at 0.7c in one direction and something else is traveling at 0.7c in another direction then relatively that is expansion of faster than the speed of light, without actually traveling faster than it.

    But we aren't looking for where those stars are now, we are looking for where they were then.

    These stars we are looking for I would have thought wouldn't have had relatively that much time to travel in the opposite direction by when they emitted the light we are looking for. What am I missing?
    There is more universe than we can see. Our "visible horizon" is not the edge of space. Think of it like standing on a hill on the Isle of Man. On the horizon you can see Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales, but there is a lot more world beyond your visible horizon.

    The other point is that while nothing can travel through spacetime faster than light, spacetime itself can expand faster than light (because spacetime is stretching, not travelling through itself)
    What’s beyond the edge of space?
    Donald Trump’s ego.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MrEd said:

    darkage said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Perhaps you should report these incidents to the "prejudice reporting in education" database.
    I think you’re right. Actually, I think these outpourings of moral condemnations are actually hate crimes and need to be investigated as such.
    Speaking of which what is the point of trying the Arbery murderers on federal hate crime charges after sentencing them to life without (in 2 cases) parole? It seems a bit like the posthumous execution of O Cromwell
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    darkage said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Perhaps you should report these incidents to the "prejudice reporting in education" database.
    I think you’re right. Actually, I think these outpourings of moral condemnations are actually hate crimes and need to be investigated as such.
    I'm am sorry to say, but it's true. I am prejudiced against snivelling wretches. Perhaps you two can form a support group.
    I really don’t care. When you stick to discussing things as with the expansion of the universe, you are interesting but your moral repugnance is simply boring.
  • Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    The basic reproduction rate is high but not the highest known, but that combined with the short serial interval (the time between cases in a chain of transmission) may make it effectively the fastest growing virus seen in modern history. It's the combination of how many new cases arise at each step and how soon a new step begins that makes it so problematic. In the Omicron variant we have a virus that is as transmissible as something like mumps or rubella that reproduces as fast as influenza.


    For this layman, could you elaborate what you mean by "short serial interval"- what does that mean and how does it work in the real world?

    I would be genuinely grateful. It sounds important!
    Roughly,
    R is how many kids you have
    serial interval is how old you are when you have them
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Tonight hopefully we will get some new polls
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    ping said:

    Great news from the James Webb.

    Looks like the mirrors have deployed successfully.

    Can someone explain something to me please?

    I understand that this is looking for images that date to the earliest stars in the universe which have had to travel billions of light years to reach us, which explains why we can essentially "look back in time" to the first stars in the universe.

    But what I don't understand is why that light hasn't passed us by already?

    Unless we've been travelling from the origins of the universe at either the speed of light or faster than it, why haven't we already missed those images?

    It's fortuitous that we haven't but that's the one bit I don't understand so if someone who understands astrophysics better could answer that question I'd be very curious.
    The universe expanded faster than the speed of light. So things that were very close to us back when the universe was born are now extremely far away, so far that it takes as long as the age of the universe to see them.
    Thanks that helps a bit. I wonder how that worked? I thought faster than speed of light was science fiction.

    I can understand eg if we're traveling at 0.7c in one direction and something else is traveling at 0.7c in another direction then relatively that is expansion of faster than the speed of light, without actually traveling faster than it.

    But we aren't looking for where those stars are now, we are looking for where they were then.

    These stars we are looking for I would have thought wouldn't have had relatively that much time to travel in the opposite direction by when they emitted the light we are looking for. What am I missing?
    There is more universe than we can see. Our "visible horizon" is not the edge of space. Think of it like standing on a hill on the Isle of Man. On the horizon you can see Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales, but there is a lot more world beyond your visible horizon.

    The other point is that while nothing can travel through spacetime faster than light, spacetime itself can expand faster than light (because spacetime is stretching, not travelling through itself)
    What’s beyond the edge of space?
    God.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Alistair said:

    London cases may be so flat that this time next week they might be going up (marginally again)

    Why do you think that?

    image

    Interestingly, the regional R numbers are re-converging, on a downward trend.

    image

    They tend to spread out as waves occur, as the different region get different levels of infection.
    It wouldn't be unexpected to see a peak on the 3rd/4th (four days after NYE) following the peak on the 29th (four days after Christmas Day).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    ping said:

    Great news from the James Webb.

    Looks like the mirrors have deployed successfully.

    Can someone explain something to me please?

    I understand that this is looking for images that date to the earliest stars in the universe which have had to travel billions of light years to reach us, which explains why we can essentially "look back in time" to the first stars in the universe.

    But what I don't understand is why that light hasn't passed us by already?

    Unless we've been travelling from the origins of the universe at either the speed of light or faster than it, why haven't we already missed those images?

    It's fortuitous that we haven't but that's the one bit I don't understand so if someone who understands astrophysics better could answer that question I'd be very curious.
    The universe expanded faster than the speed of light. So things that were very close to us back when the universe was born are now extremely far away, so far that it takes as long as the age of the universe to see them.
    Thanks that helps a bit. I wonder how that worked? I thought faster than speed of light was science fiction.

    I can understand eg if we're traveling at 0.7c in one direction and something else is traveling at 0.7c in another direction then relatively that is expansion of faster than the speed of light, without actually traveling faster than it.

    But we aren't looking for where those stars are now, we are looking for where they were then.

    These stars we are looking for I would have thought wouldn't have had relatively that much time to travel in the opposite direction by when they emitted the light we are looking for. What am I missing?
    Space itself got bigger, so nothing actually broke the speed of light. The galaxies on a balloon analogy is a good one. The galaxies themselves are at rest, but space (the balloon) is expanding.

    I don't really understand your second question.
    Thanks for the explanations on space/time for those who responded.

    The second question was that I'd have thought we'd be looking at the universe as it had expanded when the light was emitted, not as expanded as it is now.

    But it seems like despite the light travelling towards us it is still expanding away from us as time goes on too. Despite the fact the expansion took place after the light leaving it's point of origin, which seems counterintuitive to me.
    Think of it as someone skiing down a mountain while the mountain is growing faster than the skier.

    No matter how fast he goes down he ends up further away from the bottom.

    Or something.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Report from my local gastropub in north London suburbia.

    Packed.

    Heading to Ave Mario in a bit, will report back!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    dixiedean said:

    Everton are pretty decent.

    Leicester City kids did alright today against a piss poor Watford. Only one defender and no striker in the team today, finished with a 16 year old kid on the pitch. Won 4:1.

    I cannot see the Tuesday game against Everton happening.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    Leon said:

    BigRich said:

    Leon said:

    Argentina recorded 110,000 cases yesterday

    We know Omicron is kinda catchy, but still. Wow

    Argentina only has a population of 25m. 110,000 reported cases could easily mean 250,000 actual cases. That's 1% of the country catching it in a day

    and next door in Brazil less than half that 54,000. in a nation 6 times larger!

    Which is clearly because of:

    1) less testing
    2) accumulated immunity with from brazils less server restrictions over the whole pandemic
    3) it has just not reached brazil yet

    Delete 1, 2, or 3 as required to match your Point of view.
    Didn't realise this: Argentina has already suffered 117,000 deaths and 6m cases. Nearly the same deaths as France with less than half the population

    Covid really fucked with Latin America
    Argentina had IIRC the longest unbroken Lockdown in the would, and as good as a complete ban on people coming in or out, while Brazil has been at almost the other end of the spectrum, but the results in terms of deaths per million over the whole pandemic are not that different.
    Neither of them is a patch on Ecauador, if I remember rightly. I think they managed close to 3x the normal number of deaths in 2021.

    Edit to add: which I assume is due to altitude meaning that there's less oxygen to go around. You get sick in the lungs in Quito, and you might well end up Quitoed.
    Think that might be Peru.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    ping said:

    Great news from the James Webb.

    Looks like the mirrors have deployed successfully.

    Can someone explain something to me please?

    I understand that this is looking for images that date to the earliest stars in the universe which have had to travel billions of light years to reach us, which explains why we can essentially "look back in time" to the first stars in the universe.

    But what I don't understand is why that light hasn't passed us by already?

    Unless we've been travelling from the origins of the universe at either the speed of light or faster than it, why haven't we already missed those images?

    It's fortuitous that we haven't but that's the one bit I don't understand so if someone who understands astrophysics better could answer that question I'd be very curious.
    The universe expanded faster than the speed of light. So things that were very close to us back when the universe was born are now extremely far away, so far that it takes as long as the age of the universe to see them.
    Thanks that helps a bit. I wonder how that worked? I thought faster than speed of light was science fiction.

    I can understand eg if we're traveling at 0.7c in one direction and something else is traveling at 0.7c in another direction then relatively that is expansion of faster than the speed of light, without actually traveling faster than it.

    But we aren't looking for where those stars are now, we are looking for where they were then.

    These stars we are looking for I would have thought wouldn't have had relatively that much time to travel in the opposite direction by when they emitted the light we are looking for. What am I missing?
    There is more universe than we can see. Our "visible horizon" is not the edge of space. Think of it like standing on a hill on the Isle of Man. On the horizon you can see Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales, but there is a lot more world beyond your visible horizon.

    The other point is that while nothing can travel through spacetime faster than light, spacetime itself can expand faster than light (because spacetime is stretching, not travelling through itself)
    What’s beyond the edge of space?
    See below.

    Tonight hopefully we will get some new polls

  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    MrEd said:

    Aslan said:

    MrEd said:

    Aslan said:

    Much of the Steele Dossier has been proven true, including multiple secret contacts between the Russians and the Trump campaign, Trump seeking a major real estate deal in Russia during the election, Russian meddling in the 2016 election, and payments to Michael Flynn from Moscow.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/07/politics/dossier-two-years-later/index.html

    Dear Oh Lord. Was that a research fail on your part or were you trying to deliberately mislead people who would just accept your words without checking the link.

    First of all, it’s CNN, which is not exactly the most unbiased of sources (and if you think CNN is neutral, well…). Second, it’s dated January 2019 - guess what, a lot has happened since then…

    Have you heard of the Dunham Special Counsel investigation and what’s been happening. Here’s some links - they are not CNN and they are not Fox.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/580391-durhams-latest-indictment-more-lines-drawn-to-clintons-campaign?amp

    https://jonathanturley.org/2021/11/04/igor-danchenko-arrested-as-part-of-durham-investigation/

    The fact you couldn't negate any of my specific comments and that you are going into "CNN not to be trusted, they are just like Fox" then citing an opinion piece just shows your ridiculous bias.

    And again, none of this comes close to an armed, violent occupation of Congress during an election count, complete with nooses and death threats. You are just engaging in muddying the waters and whataboutism to take attention away from proto-fascists striking at the very roots of Western freedom.
    I didn’t choose to negate it because we are in the middle of a Special Investigation that has uncovered far more facts and, in some cases, contradicts your CNN report. In fact, the facts are completely making the CNN report look like a particularly bad example of how badly some things age.

    As for the opinion piece, Jonathan Turley happens to be one of the best legal commentators out there, certainly not a Trumpist. He’s represented - and got off - those accused of being Islamic terrorists. The idea he is some Trumpist wannabe is a fantasy on your part.

    Still, as I said to Kinabalu, no one has been charged of sedition and insurrection so you seem to be making some mental leaps…
    What happened was you claimed the Clinton campaign did something equivalent to the Trump-led marching on the Capitol. Your example of this was Clinton aides claiming to authorities that the Trump campaign had Russian links and you said this was disproved. In fact multiple links between the Trump campaign and Moscow have been demonstrated, including business negotiations, frequent contacts hidden from US authorities and, in at least one case, financial payments. Now you can't negate any of that you are just link spamming and yammering on about CNN not being a newsworthy source.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    How have I (so far, knowingly) managed to dodge omicron? I have been to double figures of packed, unmasked pubs over Christmas, hosted 20 people at my own house, and attended a belting New Years house party. I must be ludicrously lucky. I don’t expect my luck to last!!
    We've avoided Covid so far, without being particularly careful (masks aside). I'm not expecting this status to last long ...

    I do wonder if there's some genetic aspect to getting and avoiding the worst of Covid. It's perfectly possible for you (or us) to have had it without realising. Something that may not always be picked up even by the antibody survey.
    There must be. Susceptibility to Covid has the appearance of a lottery and has done from the beginning. We all know that a certain number of nonagenarians have had asymptomatic infections and a certain number of twentysomethings have died of it. The blind luck of genetics will be playing its part.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    WRT to twitter, what you can do is log out of it completely and just go to the feed of whoever it is you want to see, without logging in. That way you can just avoid the manipulation that goes on when they combine everything in to a feed.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    darkage said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Perhaps you should report these incidents to the "prejudice reporting in education" database.
    I think you’re right. Actually, I think these outpourings of moral condemnations are actually hate crimes and need to be investigated as such.
    Speaking of which what is the point of trying the Arbery murderers on federal hate crime charges after sentencing them to life without (in 2 cases) parole? It seems a bit like the posthumous execution of O Cromwell
    My (cynical) guess would be to keep it in the headlines and / or motivate Black voters in particular ahead of the Midterms. It’s a slam dunk - they have been convicted as they should have been so no major risk there and you can bring up the narrative of Hate crimes / Race again.

    Funnily enough, I don’t think they’re bringing federal hate charges who drive his SUV into the crowd of old people and children even though he made racist comments on his website including threats of violence.

    Go figure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    As far as I understand it's actually not that plausible to be more deadly, more transmissible and vax evasive.

    There was a quote a year ago from the inventor of the Oxford vaccine along the lines that the way the vaccines worked (targeting the spike protein) meant that anything that evolved to be evade the vaccine shouldn't be as deadly because it wouldn't spike as well.

    So it has turned out. Omicron is more evasive but doesn't spike as well hence being dominant in throats rather than lungs and organs. Which makes it less deadly.
    I'm not sure we are disagreeing. The boffin I read said that it was unlikely to get more transmissible AND more evasive and lethal, but neither should we presume it couldn't happen. It really could

    Thank fuck it didn't. Or hasn't. Yet
    I’m not an epidemiologist, but where’s the evolutionary pressure on omicron? It’s having a whale of a time, reproducing happily in healthy, barely affected, very mobile, hosts. It’s like a pig in shit.
    Sure, and yet even expert virologists can't agree on whether bugs naturally get kinder over time. It seems to make sense, a dead host is not a very good host for a virus, unable to spread it around, so the evolutionary pressure is to become less virulent?

    And yet the bad forms of Smallpox remained extremely nasty and dangerous until we, amazingly, eliminated them


    "If the Covid virus evolved in this way, it might become less severe, but that outcome is far from certain. “There’s this assumption that something more transmissible becomes less virulent. I don’t think that’s the position we should take,” says Balloux. Variants including Alpha, Beta and Delta have been linked to heightened rates of hospitalization and death — potentially because they grow to such high levels in people’s airways. The assertion that viruses evolve to become milder “is a bit of a myth”, says Rambaut. “The reality is far more complex.""

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03619-8
  • Tonight hopefully we will get some new polls

    I think there's an Opinium poll tonight, here's some of the supplementaries.

    an Opinium poll for the Observer suggests households are already noticing price inflation. About 70% of voters said they had seen their cost of living increase more than their income over the last 12 months, despite reports of pay rises. A majority who voted Tory at the last election (57%) said they backed removing VAT from energy bills.

    One in eight voters (12%) would now describe their financial situation as “struggling”, up slightly from 9% from the end of lockdown in April. A huge majority of the public say they have noticed price rises. About 86% have noticed a rise in the overall cost of living, 83% a rise in grocery bills, 80% a rise in energy bills and 59% a rise in council tax.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/08/tory-mps-sound-alarm-over-cost-of-living-crisis-as-local-elections-loom?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1641660808
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    How have I (so far, knowingly) managed to dodge omicron? I have been to double figures of packed, unmasked pubs over Christmas, hosted 20 people at my own house, and attended a belting New Years house party. I must be ludicrously lucky. I don’t expect my luck to last!!
    We've avoided Covid so far, without being particularly careful (masks aside). I'm not expecting this status to last long ...

    I do wonder if there's some genetic aspect to getting and avoiding the worst of Covid. It's perfectly possible for you (or us) to have had it without realising. Something that may not always be picked up even by the antibody survey.
    "We all know people like Sarah: the seemingly untouchable Covid “never-getters” who remain standing while everyone around them falls ill."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/people-keep-getting-covid-others-never/
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    ping said:

    Great news from the James Webb.

    Looks like the mirrors have deployed successfully.

    Can someone explain something to me please?

    I understand that this is looking for images that date to the earliest stars in the universe which have had to travel billions of light years to reach us, which explains why we can essentially "look back in time" to the first stars in the universe.

    But what I don't understand is why that light hasn't passed us by already?

    Unless we've been travelling from the origins of the universe at either the speed of light or faster than it, why haven't we already missed those images?

    It's fortuitous that we haven't but that's the one bit I don't understand so if someone who understands astrophysics better could answer that question I'd be very curious.
    The universe expanded faster than the speed of light. So things that were very close to us back when the universe was born are now extremely far away, so far that it takes as long as the age of the universe to see them.
    Thanks that helps a bit. I wonder how that worked? I thought faster than speed of light was science fiction.

    I can understand eg if we're traveling at 0.7c in one direction and something else is traveling at 0.7c in another direction then relatively that is expansion of faster than the speed of light, without actually traveling faster than it.

    But we aren't looking for where those stars are now, we are looking for where they were then.

    These stars we are looking for I would have thought wouldn't have had relatively that much time to travel in the opposite direction by when they emitted the light we are looking for. What am I missing?
    There is more universe than we can see. Our "visible horizon" is not the edge of space. Think of it like standing on a hill on the Isle of Man. On the horizon you can see Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales, but there is a lot more world beyond your visible horizon.

    The other point is that while nothing can travel through spacetime faster than light, spacetime itself can expand faster than light (because spacetime is stretching, not travelling through itself)
    What’s beyond the edge of space?
    God.
    Just don't give him a starship
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Aslan said:

    MrEd said:

    Aslan said:

    MrEd said:

    Aslan said:

    Much of the Steele Dossier has been proven true, including multiple secret contacts between the Russians and the Trump campaign, Trump seeking a major real estate deal in Russia during the election, Russian meddling in the 2016 election, and payments to Michael Flynn from Moscow.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/07/politics/dossier-two-years-later/index.html

    Dear Oh Lord. Was that a research fail on your part or were you trying to deliberately mislead people who would just accept your words without checking the link.

    First of all, it’s CNN, which is not exactly the most unbiased of sources (and if you think CNN is neutral, well…). Second, it’s dated January 2019 - guess what, a lot has happened since then…

    Have you heard of the Dunham Special Counsel investigation and what’s been happening. Here’s some links - they are not CNN and they are not Fox.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/580391-durhams-latest-indictment-more-lines-drawn-to-clintons-campaign?amp

    https://jonathanturley.org/2021/11/04/igor-danchenko-arrested-as-part-of-durham-investigation/

    The fact you couldn't negate any of my specific comments and that you are going into "CNN not to be trusted, they are just like Fox" then citing an opinion piece just shows your ridiculous bias.

    And again, none of this comes close to an armed, violent occupation of Congress during an election count, complete with nooses and death threats. You are just engaging in muddying the waters and whataboutism to take attention away from proto-fascists striking at the very roots of Western freedom.
    I didn’t choose to negate it because we are in the middle of a Special Investigation that has uncovered far more facts and, in some cases, contradicts your CNN report. In fact, the facts are completely making the CNN report look like a particularly bad example of how badly some things age.

    As for the opinion piece, Jonathan Turley happens to be one of the best legal commentators out there, certainly not a Trumpist. He’s represented - and got off - those accused of being Islamic terrorists. The idea he is some Trumpist wannabe is a fantasy on your part.

    Still, as I said to Kinabalu, no one has been charged of sedition and insurrection so you seem to be making some mental leaps…
    What happened was you claimed the Clinton campaign did something equivalent to the Trump-led marching on the Capitol. Your example of this was Clinton aides claiming to authorities that the Trump campaign had Russian links and you said this was disproved. In fact multiple links between the Trump campaign and Moscow have been demonstrated, including business negotiations, frequent contacts hidden from US authorities and, in at least one case, financial payments. Now you can't negate any of that you are just link spamming and yammering on about CNN not being a newsworthy source.
    What are you talking about? It has been disproved. One of the accused has admitted he fabricated the evidence and Steele has said that Clinton knew what he was doing.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Tonight hopefully we will get some new polls

    Do you only have the next PM bet @MikeSmithson ?

    (I have all sorts of small bets in many of the political markets on BF.)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    How have I (so far, knowingly) managed to dodge omicron? I have been to double figures of packed, unmasked pubs over Christmas, hosted 20 people at my own house, and attended a belting New Years house party. I must be ludicrously lucky. I don’t expect my luck to last!!
    Or, you had it but it was so mild you didn't even have a sniffle
    My girlfriend has tested negative to a ton of LFTs and PCR despite being in close contact with me, confirmed positive, for over a week.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    I almost never use Twitter but have been for months getting push notifications of Tweets for people I don't follow who clearly have an antivaxx agenda. I don't know why and it's really irritating and I wonder how many other people are getting this bullshit spread to them by Twitter?

    This week I've had multiple Tweet push notifications all along the line of "my husband/wife/mother died from an aneurysm/blood clot/heart inflammation days after their booster jab". Clearly bullshit and again not from anyone I follow.

    What the hell is Twitter playing at pushing this misinformation and junk to people?

    I don't know what twitter have changed, i am all of a sudden getting pushed constant stuff from political "extremists" (by this i mean people who have a single agenda that they push all day every day) particular left wing, none of whom i follow. My timeline is filled full of the latest rantings of James oBrien, Bad Al etc.

    I basically don't follow anybody political, its all science, machine learning, covid and some crypto / finance.
    I do wish you'd stop referring to 'Bad Al'.
    Every time I see it, I think 'oh no, what have I done now?'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    As far as I understand it's actually not that plausible to be more deadly, more transmissible and vax evasive.

    There was a quote a year ago from the inventor of the Oxford vaccine along the lines that the way the vaccines worked (targeting the spike protein) meant that anything that evolved to be evade the vaccine shouldn't be as deadly because it wouldn't spike as well.

    So it has turned out. Omicron is more evasive but doesn't spike as well hence being dominant in throats rather than lungs and organs. Which makes it less deadly.
    I'm not sure we are disagreeing. The boffin I read said that it was unlikely to get more transmissible AND more evasive and lethal, but neither should we presume it couldn't happen. It really could

    Thank fuck it didn't. Or hasn't. Yet
    I’m not an epidemiologist, but where’s the evolutionary pressure on omicron? It’s having a whale of a time, reproducing happily in healthy, barely affected, very mobile, hosts. It’s like a pig in shit.
    Sure, and yet even expert virologists can't agree on whether bugs naturally get kinder over time. It seems to make sense, a dead host is not a very good host for a virus, unable to spread it around, so the evolutionary pressure is to become less virulent?

    And yet the bad forms of Smallpox remained extremely nasty and dangerous until we, amazingly, eliminated them


    "If the Covid virus evolved in this way, it might become less severe, but that outcome is far from certain. “There’s this assumption that something more transmissible becomes less virulent. I don’t think that’s the position we should take,” says Balloux. Variants including Alpha, Beta and Delta have been linked to heightened rates of hospitalization and death — potentially because they grow to such high levels in people’s airways. The assertion that viruses evolve to become milder “is a bit of a myth”, says Rambaut. “The reality is far more complex.""

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03619-8
    Wasn't smallpox a very stable virus by comparison though? I'm no expert but from what I've read it was hardly any different in the 1960s to the remnants found from the Roman period. It was one of the things that made vaccinations to eliminate it a practical proposition.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MrEd said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    darkage said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Perhaps you should report these incidents to the "prejudice reporting in education" database.
    I think you’re right. Actually, I think these outpourings of moral condemnations are actually hate crimes and need to be investigated as such.
    Speaking of which what is the point of trying the Arbery murderers on federal hate crime charges after sentencing them to life without (in 2 cases) parole? It seems a bit like the posthumous execution of O Cromwell
    My (cynical) guess would be to keep it in the headlines and / or motivate Black voters in particular ahead of the Midterms. It’s a slam dunk - they have been convicted as they should have been so no major risk there and you can bring up the narrative of Hate crimes / Race again.

    Funnily enough, I don’t think they’re bringing federal hate charges who drive his SUV into the crowd of old people and children even though he made racist comments on his website including threats of violence.

    Go figure.
    Top tip to joggers: best not to interrupt your training to stroll around someone else's construction site. This applies esp if you are a Jogger of Color and the construction site is in redneckville Ga.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    How have I (so far, knowingly) managed to dodge omicron? I have been to double figures of packed, unmasked pubs over Christmas, hosted 20 people at my own house, and attended a belting New Years house party. I must be ludicrously lucky. I don’t expect my luck to last!!
    We've avoided Covid so far, without being particularly careful (masks aside). I'm not expecting this status to last long ...

    I do wonder if there's some genetic aspect to getting and avoiding the worst of Covid. It's perfectly possible for you (or us) to have had it without realising. Something that may not always be picked up even by the antibody survey.
    "We all know people like Sarah: the seemingly untouchable Covid “never-getters” who remain standing while everyone around them falls ill."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/people-keep-getting-covid-others-never/
    I have a friend whose kids have had it twice (including over Christmas with Omicron) and they are a teacher who never stopped face to face teaching at any point during the pandemic, and because of this tests all the time....all the other teachers had it, loads of the kids, they have had covid nadda times.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    Do you mean R0?

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00559-2/fulltext

    The original strain of SARS-CoV-2 has an R0 of 2·5, while the delta variant (B.1.617.2) has an R0 of just under 7. Martin Hibberd, professor of emerging infectious diseases at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine (London, UK), reckons omicron's R0 could be as high as 10.
    Yes, that one. I believe R0 can be assessed different ways depending on whether the population is entirely naive, or has some immunity etc (Re)

    Anyway, fuck me with a golden pilchard. R10 is extremely high. That means Omicron is just about up there with Chickenpox and Measles, two of the most infectious diseases we have known



    https://transportgeography.org/contents/applications/transportation-pandemics/basic-reproduction-number-r0-of-major-infectious-diseases/


    Distorted effects slightly by how quickly a patient becomes able to spread once infected, so the ‘generations’ are shorter for omicron than delta too.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    How have I (so far, knowingly) managed to dodge omicron? I have been to double figures of packed, unmasked pubs over Christmas, hosted 20 people at my own house, and attended a belting New Years house party. I must be ludicrously lucky. I don’t expect my luck to last!!
    Have you been testing daily? possible you have had it asymptomatically. or perhaps you have had it at some point in the last 20 months?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    CatMan said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    ping said:

    Great news from the James Webb.

    Looks like the mirrors have deployed successfully.

    Can someone explain something to me please?

    I understand that this is looking for images that date to the earliest stars in the universe which have had to travel billions of light years to reach us, which explains why we can essentially "look back in time" to the first stars in the universe.

    But what I don't understand is why that light hasn't passed us by already?

    Unless we've been travelling from the origins of the universe at either the speed of light or faster than it, why haven't we already missed those images?

    It's fortuitous that we haven't but that's the one bit I don't understand so if someone who understands astrophysics better could answer that question I'd be very curious.
    The universe expanded faster than the speed of light. So things that were very close to us back when the universe was born are now extremely far away, so far that it takes as long as the age of the universe to see them.
    Thanks that helps a bit. I wonder how that worked? I thought faster than speed of light was science fiction.

    I can understand eg if we're traveling at 0.7c in one direction and something else is traveling at 0.7c in another direction then relatively that is expansion of faster than the speed of light, without actually traveling faster than it.

    But we aren't looking for where those stars are now, we are looking for where they were then.

    These stars we are looking for I would have thought wouldn't have had relatively that much time to travel in the opposite direction by when they emitted the light we are looking for. What am I missing?
    There is more universe than we can see. Our "visible horizon" is not the edge of space. Think of it like standing on a hill on the Isle of Man. On the horizon you can see Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales, but there is a lot more world beyond your visible horizon.

    The other point is that while nothing can travel through spacetime faster than light, spacetime itself can expand faster than light (because spacetime is stretching, not travelling through itself)
    What’s beyond the edge of space?
    God.
    Just don't give him a starship
    What would he build his city on?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    Report from my local gastropub in north London suburbia.

    Packed.

    Report from the South coast.

    It's absolutely pissed it down all day, with heavy winds, and nobody has left home at all.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Anyone who thinks the Dems attempted a coup to overturn the 2016 election result needs the mendacious or moron test applied to anything they say.

    And moron can be safely ruled out. There are no morons on a site where more people than not understand how spacetime struts its stuff!
    Well, Kinabalu, you were pontificating this week about how we could not say the Coulston defendants had committed criminal damage because they had been acquitted of the charges.

    Since the FBI has not charged anyone with sedition or insurrection, then surely the Jan 6 rioters cannot be accused of sedition and insurrection either if you would apply your own standards to another case? Or that doesn’t work if it doesn’t fit with your views……
    I was - can we go with 'pointing out' rather than 'pontificating'? - pointing out that saying one accepts the verdict AND the act was criminal means one doesn't really accept the verdict.

    The mental gymnastics needed to map this onto the Jan 6th Capitol proceedings in any meaningful way are not for me on a Saturday night.
    What you said was they couldn’t be said to have committed criminal damage because they had been cleared. So all that doing is applying your logic to this.

    Much as you are trying to wriggle out of it, your basic problem is that, if we accept your original argument (as I did), then you can’t call the Jan 6 rioters insurrectionists. You can believe they are but you can’t state it as a fact.

    Not that hard.
    Ed, the topic merits better than this.

    You - for reasons you'll know and I can't - have got yourself into such a lather about 'wokeness' and the Dems and the 'libs', that whole side of life, that you are prepared to defend and go along with what no decent person should defend or go along with.

    This, my friend, is the truth. You'd be better off speaking it plainly rather than attempting all this softhead sophistry.
    Oh Kinabalu, please don’t start with your “I’m a rational, neutral chap who listens to the evidence” stuff. It comes off as slightly patronising and the truth is you are a partisan and a biased one at that, as I am, when it comes to certain issues.

    In any event, the truth is you post far more stuff about social issues and your views than I do, which is why I only have 4000 posts and you over 26000. I’ve only been on here as much as I have these past few days because I have COVID and isolating.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone recently tried to calculate the "pure" and "effective" R numbers for Omicron?

    It must be off the dial. One of the most infectious diseases we have ever encountered. Imagine if Omicron had evolved to be more lethal as WELL as more transmissible and vax-evasive. I understand this is far from impossible

    We would be staring, this winter, at a true apocalypse. Civilisational collapse

    The basic reproduction rate is high but not the highest known, but that combined with the short serial interval (the time between cases in a chain of transmission) may make it effectively the fastest growing virus seen in modern history. It's the combination of how many new cases arise at each step and how soon a new step begins that makes it so problematic. In the Omicron variant we have a virus that is as transmissible as something like mumps or rubella that reproduces as fast as influenza.


    For this layman, could you elaborate what you mean by "short serial interval"- what does that mean and how does it work in the real world?

    I would be genuinely grateful. It sounds important!
    You know how R refers to how many people each infectee goes on to infect?

    Like an R of 3 means Patient Zero infects three, who go on to infect three each (so a total of 9 at second remove) and then 27, and so on, in a nasty live demonstration of exponential growth.

    The serial interval is how long each step takes.
    If something has an R of 5 but a serial interval of a year, then by the time it infects over a thousand people at a time, it’s been more than four years since the outbreak starts, so not really that scary to get a hold of. It’d take 8-9 years to get a million infectees.

    If it has an R of just 2 but a serial interval of 1 day, it gets past a thousand in 10 days flat and a million in 20 days, so rather more frightening, despite the considerably lower R.

  • IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    darkage said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Perhaps you should report these incidents to the "prejudice reporting in education" database.
    I think you’re right. Actually, I think these outpourings of moral condemnations are actually hate crimes and need to be investigated as such.
    Speaking of which what is the point of trying the Arbery murderers on federal hate crime charges after sentencing them to life without (in 2 cases) parole? It seems a bit like the posthumous execution of O Cromwell
    The separation of federal and state means double jeopardy doesn't apply if prosecuted in both.

    If the murder trials were done in a state court then potentially a state Governor could commute their sentences in the future to release them.

    If they're convicted in a federal court then they'd need a pardon from both the Governor and the President to be released.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MrEd said:

    darkage said:

    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:


    Not like you TSE. I thought the great mind that is yours would have been able to come up with something more original and clever than that. Too busy picking out which outfit to wear?

    There's a piece coming up on PB in the next few weekends which says the events of January 6th was the equivalent of the Beer Hall Putsch and those who ignore it or downplay/defend the events of January 6th risk ensuring America experiences what happened after the Beer Hall Putsch.

    And for once, the Nazi analogies hold.
    I’ll be interested in that. Is there any opportunity to put a counter-piece into that or you are only allowed to write pieces that toe the accepted wisdom?
    Good God, you're such a snivelling wretch.
    I always think those who pass moral judgements quickly and easily are just boring, sad c*nts who, if they are male, probably have a 3 inch cock. So far, you are doing nothing to disabuse me of such views.
    Perhaps you should report these incidents to the "prejudice reporting in education" database.
    I think you’re right. Actually, I think these outpourings of moral condemnations are actually hate crimes and need to be investigated as such.
    Speaking of which what is the point of trying the Arbery murderers on federal hate crime charges after sentencing them to life without (in 2 cases) parole? It seems a bit like the posthumous execution of O Cromwell
    My (cynical) guess would be to keep it in the headlines and / or motivate Black voters in particular ahead of the Midterms. It’s a slam dunk - they have been convicted as they should have been so no major risk there and you can bring up the narrative of Hate crimes / Race again.

    Funnily enough, I don’t think they’re bringing federal hate charges who drive his SUV into the crowd of old people and children even though he made racist comments on his website including threats of violence.

    Go figure.
    Top tip to joggers: best not to interrupt your training to stroll around someone else's construction site. This applies esp if you are a Jogger of Color and the construction site is in redneckville Ga.
    'Colour', and they can jog.
This discussion has been closed.