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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Henry G Manson looks at the politics of food banks

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  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @OldKingCole

    One of the Limp Dim council candidates claims to be a 'caseworker' p/t for an MP.
  • paulpaul Posts: 1
    On the question of whether David Cameron has been arranging for Parliament to rise early to avoid PMQs, the following number of PMQs per year have been held over the past few years:

    2006 - 30 PMQs
    2007 - 32 PMQs
    2008 - 33 PMQs
    2009 - 29 PMQs
    2010 - 32 PMQs
    2011 - 33 PMQs
    2012 - 30 PMQs

    It is not apparent that there is any material difference

    So far in 2013 there have been 11 PMQs which does not seem out of sync with previous years. In 2012, there had been 12 PMQs by 26 April but 30 by the end of the year
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Benyon has five bread rolls and two small fishes, and feeds 5,000 people. Lo, a miracle.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Neil said:

    Plato said:

    unless you provide evidence using your user name - I discount whatever assertions you make

    You realise it was a joke, right?
    No, Neil.

    You make epic assertions on PB and never ever provide a link to them, I've been on here for years as you have and I can't recall a post of yours that did.

    I ignore your assertions on pensions and everything else since you provide no evidence bar your opinions for any of them.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    TGOHF said:

    Another poison pill for rEd Ed champion of the broken home - will he cancel it as it is unfair to single mums ?

    It's going to be added to the pile. Perhaps you don't yet realise what's going to happen in the last gasping year/months of the coaltion?

    Cammie proposes something that he knows won't get through but appeals to his voters. Clegg responds by proposing something that he knows won't get through but appeals to his voters. Cameron responds back by proposing something that he knows won't get through but appeals to his voters. Etcetera. And the circle of life in westminster will dance on while nothing of consequence happens but both coalition parties get to look like they are distancing themselves from each other in time for the GE.

    There might even be something in that lot that get's through but I doubt it.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Word has leaked out that the London-based firm ICAP, the world's largest broker of interest-rate swaps, is being investigated by American authorities for behavior that sounds eerily reminiscent of the Libor mess. Regulators are looking into whether or not a small group of brokers at ICAP may have worked with up to 15 of the world's largest banks to manipulate ISDAfix, a benchmark number used around the world to calculate the prices of interest-rate swaps.

    www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425

    The London banking sector really seems to be a cesspool of corruption. Why the hell do we always need to wait for the American regulators to act? What the hell is wrong with our ones? Why don't we have any journalists competent enough to unearth and report this stuff? I suppose our financial journalists get more clicks writing about who's on what bank note.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    sam said:

    Socrates said:

    sam said:

    tim said:

    @Sam

    Any evidence that Labour working class voters are pro grammar school?

    Given that even Tory councils such as Kent are trying to break the stranglehold gained through coaching of wealthier parents on Grammar Schools it seems unlikely


    Well I know a few.. but I also know that doesnt count to you. I dont have an opinion poll to back it up.

    Look at the applause Farage got for saying he would introduce them on QT last night

    Which formula could be applied to UKIPs rise from nothing to 1/5 to come 2nd in South Shields

    (and no lame jokes about fops etc)

    When you explain what a Grammar school is to people who have never heard of them, lots of people cant understand why they were ever abolished.

    The reason that there is such intense competition to get in them that private tuition is needed is because there are so few.
    Is that true? I would have thought that in some counties they are entirely absent, but in the counties where they have remained there would be just as many.
    There are 8 in Essex. My Parents went to two that no longer exist. Hornchurch Grammar School is now Emerson Park Comprehensive.
    Ilford County High still is a Grammar. I left there 19 years ago (suddenly feels old....)
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    edited April 2013
    Schards said:

    Mick_Pork said:



    Pork arrives at the PB foodbank.

    You should have saved that for me reminding everyone that you tipped Lansley to be PM, Seth O Logue. :)



    Why do you feel the need to mention this several times every single day? Have you any idea how utterly dull it is?

    I've no idea if it's true but, even if it is, (and assuming Lansley never does become PM), making one inaccurate prediction does not render every subsequent post the poster makes unworthy of consideration
    In fairness to Mick, Schards, The Poster Formerly Known As Seth O'Logue was a pretty atrocious tipster.

    Obviously we all have our bad days but Seth rarely had a good one. That wouldn't have mattered particularly if he had not given the persistent impression that the 'tips' were little more than Party propaganda in disguise. It was for this reason, and no other, that I was not sorry to see his name disappear. This is after all a betting Site. Some bet serious money, and a poster who wilfully leads others over a cliff is a bit of a menace.

    However, if the said Seth now chooses to operate under a different name and wishes to remain anonymous, that wish should be respected. Outing ain't nice, and former lives should be forgotten unless the poster in question is happy to be so linked.

    If Seth really is posting under a different name, he should just be left to do so, peaceably and anonymously. Unless of course he starts giving more f*cking terrible tips.....

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    @JamesKelly: "The issue just doesn't interest me. "

    That seems an odd approach, if you don't mind me saying so. You were the one who made the implicit distinction between those whose poverty was their fault and those where it wasn't.

    There are people who are poor because of their own fault e.g. gambling / drug addicts / ex-prisoners unable to get work etc but I don't think a civilised society should ignore them or let them starve. However it seems to me that most people do - and always have done - made a distinction between the deserving and the undeserving poor. "Deserving" is always a difficult concept of course; a lot of rich people don't "deserve" their riches.

    I'd have thought it better to take the view that there should be a minimum level beyond which people cannot fall and take steps to ensure that those who are poor because of their own fault are helped to avoid those behaviours which result in their poverty e.g. reading / training schemes for prisoners.



  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    @tim


    Perhaps you could persuade Roger to do it, he's pretty well heeled. It would look great, rich socialist...
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "You were the one who made the implicit distinction between those whose poverty was their fault and those where it wasn't."

    It certainly wasn't intended as a distinction. The point I was making is that the poor people who are being clobbered by this government are poor through no fault of their own.

    Your own distinction between 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor sounds positively Victorian.

  • It certainly wasn't intended as a distinction. The point I was making is that the poor people who are being clobbered by this government are poor through no fault of their own.

    What about poor people who were clobbered by the previous government, or indeed any previous governments?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I don't have leftovers because I clear up all my food at the first attempt. Am I now a bad citizen?
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "What about poor people who were clobbered by the previous government, or indeed any previous governments?"

    We've had right-of-centre governments for 34 years now, so the problem isn't exactly a mystery.
  • samsam Posts: 727

    sam said:

    Socrates said:

    sam said:

    tim said:

    @Sam

    Any evidence that Labour working class voters are pro grammar school?

    Given that even Tory councils such as Kent are trying to break the stranglehold gained through coaching of wealthier parents on Grammar Schools it seems unlikely


    Well I know a few.. but I also know that doesnt count to you. I dont have an opinion poll to back it up.

    Look at the applause Farage got for saying he would introduce them on QT last night

    Which formula could be applied to UKIPs rise from nothing to 1/5 to come 2nd in South Shields

    (and no lame jokes about fops etc)

    When you explain what a Grammar school is to people who have never heard of them, lots of people cant understand why they were ever abolished.

    The reason that there is such intense competition to get in them that private tuition is needed is because there are so few.
    Is that true? I would have thought that in some counties they are entirely absent, but in the counties where they have remained there would be just as many.
    There are 8 in Essex. My Parents went to two that no longer exist. Hornchurch Grammar School is now Emerson Park Comprehensive.
    Ilford County High still is a Grammar. I left there 19 years ago (suddenly feels old....)
    Oh I just looked on Wiki... maybe Ilford is classed as East London?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    @JamesKelly: Aah - thanks: you did not make yourself clear or I misunderstood you.

    However, you also appear to have misunderstood me since I explicitly stated that I thought that a civilised society should make provision for all those who were poor regardless of whether it was their fault or not and that the concept of "deserving/undeserving" was a difficult one to base any sort of policy on. So the complete opposite of how you characterised it.

    Still glad to have cleared that up.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Plato said:

    I haven't seen Sahid Javid before but he looks terribly supine on QT - which party or org did he represent?

    Osborne's placeman.

    Sahid Javid spoke very intelligently on QT and gave measured and well argued responses to the questions. If we were to read a transcipt he would have been a clear winner in the debate.

    But he tends to deliver in a monotone and hasn't yet worked out how to work an argument up to a climactic soundbite which gets the audience to applaud and cheer. He also lacks the best tv performers ability to empathise with the questioner and general audience regardless of political affiliation. The Heseltine, Ken Clarke. Vince Cable, Ken Livingstone ease with a studio audience is lacking,

    Still I thought he put up a good show for a novice.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    @Charles

    You seem to believe that great British houses were built solely by entrepenuers, of course there's a great deal of inheritance and gifting which went on having absolutely nothing to do with entrepeneurship.

    I never said that - you are very good at misrepresenting arguments.

    The discussion was about *Victorian* houses. Great houses are built by people with money, land and power. At various points that has been people with soldiers (Normans), people who were close to the royals (Tudor, Stuarts), financiers and politicans (Georgians) and industrialists and financiers (Victorians).

    The Benyon house that you cite (which is quite pretty, but not really my taste) was acquired by his family through marriage.

    It's also worth pointing out that houses of this ilk are, from a purely financial perspective, more of a liability than an asset. For emotional reasons it's hard to sell them but you have to run very very hard to keep the roof in good repair.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    Socrates said:

    Word has leaked out that the London-based firm ICAP, the world's largest broker of interest-rate swaps, is being investigated by American authorities for behavior that sounds eerily reminiscent of the Libor mess. Regulators are looking into whether or not a small group of brokers at ICAP may have worked with up to 15 of the world's largest banks to manipulate ISDAfix, a benchmark number used around the world to calculate the prices of interest-rate swaps.

    www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425

    The London banking sector really seems to be a cesspool of corruption. Why the hell do we always need to wait for the American regulators to act? What the hell is wrong with our ones? Why don't we have any journalists competent enough to unearth and report this stuff? I suppose our financial journalists get more clicks writing about who's on what bank note.

    are the Americans investigating their own bankers ? I haven't seen many of them fined or packed off to jail, but maybe that's just the reporting.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    paul said:

    On the question of whether David Cameron has been arranging for Parliament to rise early to avoid PMQs, the following number of PMQs per year have been held over the past few years:

    2006 - 30 PMQs
    2007 - 32 PMQs
    2008 - 33 PMQs
    2009 - 29 PMQs
    2010 - 32 PMQs
    2011 - 33 PMQs
    2012 - 30 PMQs

    It is not apparent that there is any material difference

    So far in 2013 there have been 11 PMQs which does not seem out of sync with previous years. In 2012, there had been 12 PMQs by 26 April but 30 by the end of the year

    So yet another of tim's endless supply of mis-statements bites the dust. Won't stop its repetition having now acquired obsession status. We can laugh at him though, and some of us will.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    @JamesKelly: "We've had right-of-centre governments for 34 years now".

    That will come as news to Gordon Brown.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,705
    There are some laughable conspiracy theories aren't there.

    On the main BBC News homepage there is a link to last night's QT and in the description it only mentions one panellist. Guess who? Farage!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    Socrates: That ICAP were being investigated has been public news for some time now.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    I haven't seen Sahid Javid before but he looks terribly supine on QT - which party or org did he represent?

    Osborne's placeman.

    Sahid Javid spoke very intelligently on QT and gave measured and well argued responses to the questions. If we were to read a transcipt he would have been a clear winner in the debate.

    But he tends to deliver in a monotone and hasn't yet worked out how to work an argument up to a climactic soundbite which gets the audience to applaud and cheer. He also lacks the best tv performers ability to empathise with the questioner and general audience regardless of political affiliation. The Heseltine, Ken Clarke. Vince Cable, Ken Livingstone ease with a studio audience is lacking,

    Still I thought he put up a good show for a novice.
    Sounded to me like he said 'd' when he should be saying 't' ie "liddle"instead of "little"

    and he looked like Morph

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    unless the poster in question is happy to be so linked.

    Cousin of Seth? Much amusing banter between Mike and same poster(s)? ;)
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "That will come as news to Gordon Brown."

    I don't see how he can be blind to the nature of his own decisions in government. Miliband went out of his way upon becoming leader to describe himself as a socialist and to explicitly distance himself from New Labour - Brown didn't do either.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    @Mick

    Nah, we parted away on another point because of a term I used. But we don't need to come back there because your last comment makes an interesting point IMO.

    "think his current affiliation is actually of surprisingly little consequence" and "almost regardless of the venue."

    I don't know if I understand these lines correctly....for "current affiliation", do you mean Respect (with its mainly Muslim connection) as opposed to different kinds of party?
    and for "venues", do you mean Bradford West as opposed to other constituencies?

    If so, I think in its current affiliation he can't appeal to Labour voters regardless of the venue. But I think he would be able to change his current mantra to appeal in other types of venues if he stood there rather than Bradford/Tower Hamlets.

    I don't know if this was what you were arguing or I am saying the opposite.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Schards said:

    Mick_Pork said:



    Pork arrives at the PB foodbank.

    You should have saved that for me reminding everyone that you tipped Lansley to be PM, Seth O Logue. :)



    Why do you feel the need to mention this several times every single day? Have you any idea how utterly dull it is?

    I've no idea if it's true but, even if it is, (and assuming Lansley never does become PM), making one inaccurate prediction does not render every subsequent post the poster makes unworthy of consideration
    In fairness to Mick, Schards, The Poster Formerly Known As Seth O'Logue was a pretty atrocious tipster.

    Obviously we all have our bad days but Seth rarely had a good one. That wouldn't have mattered particularly if he had not given the persistent impression that the 'tips' were little more than Party propaganda in disguise. It was for this reason, and no other, that I was not sorry to see his name disappear. This is after all a betting Site. Some bet serious money, and a poster who wilfully leads others over a cliff is a bit of a menace.

    However, if the said Seth now chooses to operate under a different name and wishes to remain anonymous, that wish should be respected. Outing ain't nice, and former lives should be forgotten unless the poster in question is happy to be so linked.

    If Seth really is posting under a different name, he should just be left to do so, peaceably and anonymously. Unless of course he starts giving more f*cking terrible tips.....

    I am sorry to hear you lost so much money on my cousin's poor tips, Peter.

    He was a bit of a black sheep in the family, old Seth, but he tells me he won't be returning due to a crisis in his family business which requires his full time attention.

    I will understand fully if you decide not to follow my predictions on the basis of my blood relationship to Seth, but I am sure you will be wishing Seth the best of luck in his business endeavours.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Cyclefree said:

    That will come as news to Gordon Brown.


    As indeed will "British jobs for British workers".
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,705
    I also thought Javid was fine on QT.

    OK, he wasn't flamboyant but he answered every question calmly and sensibly.

    He also noted that he was the only person on the panel who hadn't gone to a private school - didn't make a big thing of it but still made the somewhat ironic point.

    I think he would have made a pretty good impression.
  • @AveryLP

    Didn't lose a thing, Avery, because I pretty quickly figured out he couldn't tip the winner of a one-horse race.

    Hope it doesn't run in the family.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Are food banks really an issue that greatly sways voter opinion? Even the BBC have revealed how the unscrupulous have abused the goodwill of the charities operating them. It's one thing to produce evidence of benefit entitlement but how carefully is the other side of the equation looked at? Who monitors whether the person taking away supplies for their family doesn't blow the benefit not spent on food on ciggies, alcohol, drugs or down the betting shop?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    @JamesKelly: Well given that Brown was an architect of New Labour I can see why he might find it hard to distance himself from it. Milliband was a Minister in Brown's government and never, to my knowledge, publicly distanced himself from any of Brown's specific policy decisions e.g. the decision to abolish the 10p tax rate - which most affected the working poor - (though I know that was when Brown was still Chancellor) or any of his other decisions.

    What Brown government decisions do you consider to be "centre right" ones?
  • Mick_Pork said:

    unless the poster in question is happy to be so linked.

    Cousin of Seth? Much amusing banter between Mike and same poster(s)? ;)
    Well, if that's the story, Mick, why dispute it?

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    sam said:

    sam said:

    Socrates said:

    sam said:

    tim said:

    @Sam

    Any evidence that Labour working class voters are pro grammar school?

    Given that even Tory councils such as Kent are trying to break the stranglehold gained through coaching of wealthier parents on Grammar Schools it seems unlikely


    Well I know a few.. but I also know that doesnt count to you. I dont have an opinion poll to back it up.

    Look at the applause Farage got for saying he would introduce them on QT last night

    Which formula could be applied to UKIPs rise from nothing to 1/5 to come 2nd in South Shields

    (and no lame jokes about fops etc)

    When you explain what a Grammar school is to people who have never heard of them, lots of people cant understand why they were ever abolished.

    The reason that there is such intense competition to get in them that private tuition is needed is because there are so few.
    Is that true? I would have thought that in some counties they are entirely absent, but in the counties where they have remained there would be just as many.
    There are 8 in Essex. My Parents went to two that no longer exist. Hornchurch Grammar School is now Emerson Park Comprehensive.
    Ilford County High still is a Grammar. I left there 19 years ago (suddenly feels old....)
    Oh I just looked on Wiki... maybe Ilford is classed as East London?
    If we are, then so is Hornchurch! Basically Newham*, Waltham Forest, Redbridge, Barking & Dagenham and Havering were all Essex pre-1965.

    (* except for North Woolwich, which was in the County of London, and before that "parte of Kent" pre-1880s).
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013



    I don't know if I understandd these lines correctly....for "current affiliation", do you mean Respect (with its mainly Muslim connection) as opposed to different kinds of party?
    and for "venues", do you mean Bradford West as opposed to other constituencies?

    If so, I think in its current affiliation he can't appeal to Labour voters regardless of the venue. But I think he would be able to change his current mantra to appeal in other types of venues if he stood there rather than Bradford/Tower Hamlets.

    I don't know if this was what you were arguing or I am saying the opposite.

    Pretty much but you do correctly link them. Were he not under the Respect banner then that would open up other places and opportunties. As you say his mantra would change his tactics would change and his appeal would be tailored to that particular area. That's what I mean by saying Galloway is his own brand. He just won't appeal everywhere under Respect and using his current tactics but they were admirably suited for winning Bradford West.

  • sam said:

    sam said:

    Socrates said:

    sam said:

    tim said:

    @Sam

    Any evidence that Labour working class voters are pro grammar school?

    Given that even Tory councils such as Kent are trying to break the stranglehold gained through coaching of wealthier parents on Grammar Schools it seems unlikely


    Well I know a few.. but I also know that doesnt count to you. I dont have an opinion poll to back it up.

    Look at the applause Farage got for saying he would introduce them on QT last night

    Which formula could be applied to UKIPs rise from nothing to 1/5 to come 2nd in South Shields

    (and no lame jokes about fops etc)

    When you explain what a Grammar school is to people who have never heard of them, lots of people cant understand why they were ever abolished.

    The reason that there is such intense competition to get in them that private tuition is needed is because there are so few.
    Is that true? I would have thought that in some counties they are entirely absent, but in the counties where they have remained there would be just as many.
    There are 8 in Essex. My Parents went to two that no longer exist. Hornchurch Grammar School is now Emerson Park Comprehensive.
    Ilford County High still is a Grammar. I left there 19 years ago (suddenly feels old....)
    Oh I just looked on Wiki... maybe Ilford is classed as East London?
    If we are, then so is Hornchurch! Basically Newham*, Waltham Forest, Redbridge, Barking & Dagenham and Havering were all Essex pre-1965.

    (* except for North Woolwich, which was in the County of London, and before that "parte of Kent" pre-1880s).
    Shhh...be quiet, Sunil, or the Cockney Plot to take over the world (via Essex) will be revealed....
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Isn't the bloke who runs ICAP a prominent Tory supporter/funder/postholder?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Of course, following the recession, food banks will increase, and they are a sad necessity for some when waiting for benefits payments to come through etc. Luckily, unlike some Western nations, eg the US and Canada, Spain, Greece and Italy, we have not yet reached a situation where we have time limited benefits which, when exhausted, force you to rely on food banks and soup kitchens to survive. I am all for work for the dole, and higher benefits for those who have contributed more to the system, but I also believe everyone should be entitled to the basic necessities to survive from the state in a civilised society!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Venezuala's new sports minister in a rather striking pose
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/53117219@N05/8672565819/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Galloway: Ed Miliband lied about meeting
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22307221
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Bit of a newsflash from the CPS there.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "What Brown government decisions do you consider to be "centre right" ones?"

    Abolishing the 10p tax rate.
    ID cards.
    42 days detention.
    Iraq.
    DNA retention.
    Support for privatisation.

    Etc, etc. The real question is where were the centre-left policies.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Porky Soames on the Beeb News - Not too food bank lite I must say !!
  • Bl**dy hell, another Birmingham-muslim terror plot ... this time there's 11 of the nutters. Really, Birmingham is outscoring other cities on this front. These chaps would've made those "peaceful" Britain stats a bit dated ...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Isn't the bloke who runs ICAP a prominent Tory supporter/funder/postholder?

    If it is Michael Spicer (not sure if he is ICAP or one of its competitors) he was/is Treasurer
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Charles said:

    Isn't the bloke who runs ICAP a prominent Tory supporter/funder/postholder?

    If it is Michael Spicer (not sure if he is ICAP or one of its competitors) he was/is Treasurer
    For some reason my edit function isn't working.

    I meant Michael Spencer, of course!
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Mick

    OK. Matter resolved now.

    I was getting a bit " bellicose " last time ahaha

  • We've had right-of-centre governments for 34 years now, so the problem isn't exactly a mystery.

    What does that have to do with the point at hand, I didn't restrict the comment to the previous 34 years, but in any case why would right of centre governments hammer the poor, yet left of centre governments do not?

    Right of centre governments (IMO) want to offer people the chance to look after themselves, and remove the barriers to them doing so. Left of centre governments want to cuddle people up and promise that someone else will do the hard work for them, until the whole system comes crashing down and the right of centre governments have to come in and clear up the mess, as usual.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Well, if that's the story, Mick, why dispute it?

    And a very amusing tale it is too.
    Cousin of Seth O Logue seems a bit long winded but if you seriously feel that strongly about it?

  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Right of centre governments (IMO) want to offer people the chance to look after themselves, and remove the barriers to them doing so."

    Jesus, what planet are you living on?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,548
    Not sure if this will get past the moderator, but:

    Max Clifford charged with 11 indecent assaults

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22313286
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    @James Kelly:

    "What Brown government decisions do you consider to be "centre right" ones?"

    Abolishing the 10p tax rate.
    ID cards.
    42 days detention.
    Iraq.
    DNA retention.
    Support for privatisation.

    Etc, etc. The real question is where were the centre-left ones?"

    OK : the 10p tax rate was abolished and resulted in those people paying a 20p tax rate. Raising taxes is not normally associated with the centre right. Agree that it was a bad decision though.

    ID cards and 42-day detention: again am with you that a very bad policy indeed. But the only political party which proposed these policies was the Labour party and it was the Coalition which tore up the proposal on ID cards. Authoritarianism is not exclusive to the centre right. On the contrary, there are all too many examples of left wing authoritarianism. A very great pity that Labour abandoned all belief in civil liberties.

    Iraq: this will always be Labour's shame I'm afraid.

    DNA retention: See ID cards though I am very disappointed that the current government has not done more on this front.

    Privatisation: will grant you this but there again it was Brown who - eventually - had to part nationalise the banks. Is EdM proposing to nationalise public utilities or telephone companies or steel or other privatised companies?

    As for a centre left policy I give you tax credits and the significant increases in spending on the NHS, education and other parts of the state sector.

    Labour were in power for 13 years with significant majorities. Just because you disagreed with their policies doesn't make them "centre right".
  • Mick_Pork said:

    Well, if that's the story, Mick, why dispute it?

    And a very amusing tale it is too.
    Cousin of Seth O Logue seems a bit long winded but if you seriously feel that strongly about it?

    Well, PB has a long and distinguished history of respecting posters' wishes to remain anonymous....and sustaining whatever fictions those choose to disguise themselves.

    Why, I've even heard it said that young JackW is NOT a 103 year old Jacobite, but if that's what he wants us to think....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,548

    "Right of centre governments (IMO) want to offer people the chance to look after themselves, and remove the barriers to them doing so."

    Jesus, what planet are you living on?

    I think most Christian religions believe Jesus currently resides in Heaven. Your theological interpretation may differ.

    (Although I did like the opinion of an old friend of mine, who used to say that when he died he would go to Heaven - the one under Charing Cross Arches. I haven't been there for two decades, but I'd like to think his spirit is there, bopping away).
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 663
    @Josias Jessop.

    That is OK but NO COMMENTS on the story please
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @JosiasJessop

    Who's he going t0 call? Ghostbusters?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    Cyclefree said:

    and the significant increases in spending on the NHS, education and other parts of the state sector.

    PFI. PPP. The 'reforms'.

    Blair and Brown are co-architects of New Labour remember.
    They really fell out and battled over just one thing. Power.
    Brown wanted it as soon as possible, Blair didn't want to give it up.



  • MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    hello everyone.
    Put in a comment earlier, can't see it now.
    Regretting not having enough time for pb at the moment.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013

    @Josias Jessop.

    That is OK but NO COMMENTS on the story please

    Can I just say ....

    MODERATOR
    NO. NO comments means NO comments, period.

    Thank you
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    I thought Seth O Logue left when, after spending a year trying to understand and explain Lansleys health bill to the really stupid PB Tories, Lansley announced 1100 amendments in one go.

    That is not what I have been told directly, tim.

    Pressures of the family business is the real reason.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Mick_Pork said:

    Well, if that's the story, Mick, why dispute it?

    And a very amusing tale it is too.
    Cousin of Seth O Logue seems a bit long winded but if you seriously feel that strongly about it?

    Well, PB has a long and distinguished history of respecting posters' wishes to remain anonymous....and sustaining whatever fictions those choose to disguise themselves.

    Why, I've even heard it said that young JackW is NOT a 103 year old Jacobite, but if that's what he wants us to think....
    Yes, we are all aware of that ribtickler.

    Why, I've even heard that Seth O Logue might not actually be a real persons name so where this supposed threat to anonymity comes in I really do have no idea. I can point you to someone on here actually revealed a real persons details but perhaps we should drop that and agree to differ.

    If Seth really was upset I doubt he would keep using it as a joke now would he?

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    @Mick_Pork: PFI is a disaster. Better to be upfront about state spending than have this sort of "off the books" type of shenanigans which has usually resulted in the taxpayer having to pay far more for the hospital / school or whatever than otherwise.

    You're quite right about the psychodrama at the heart of New Labour and much damage did it do to the country.

    New Labour combined the worst aspects of the right and the left with very few of the decent instincts of either.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited April 2013
    Following Mike's post previous thread it now looks entirely possible that were Santorum to repeat his 2012 Iowa win in 2016 and Rand Paul to win in NH there would be a clash to the death between the libertarian and socially conservative wings of the GOP. Meantime Hillary, with virtually no real challenge for the Dem nomination if she runs, can go about measuring the drapes in the Oval Office!
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Tartan Tory James Kelly doesn't like right wing parties. What the hell is he doing in the SNP ?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mick_Pork said:

    Well, if that's the story, Mick, why dispute it?

    And a very amusing tale it is too.
    Cousin of Seth O Logue seems a bit long winded but if you seriously feel that strongly about it?

    Well, PB has a long and distinguished history of respecting posters' wishes to remain anonymous....and sustaining whatever fictions those choose to disguise themselves.

    Why, I've even heard it said that young JackW is NOT a 103 year old Jacobite, but if that's what he wants us to think....
    Thanks for knocking off several years from an old gals age - you old charmer you !!

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited April 2013
    PPP 2016 general election

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 52%
    •Rand Paul (R) 41%
    •Not sure 8%

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 52%
    •Marco Rubio (R) 38%
    •Not sure 10%

    Could Rand Paul be the Goldwater of 2016 to Christie's Rockefeller?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited April 2013
    MODERATED

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    This sounds ominous

    Only a few dozen people are expected to claim benefits using the government's flagship new universal credit scheme when it is launched on Monday and the total number who will qualify will be limited to 300 a month, in a radical scaling back of the pilot.

    The tiny scale and extremely soft nature of the launch has prompted concern from charities and opposition politicians over how useful the trial will be in exposing weaknesses in the complex new welfare scheme, ahead of its nationwide rollout, which is due to begin in October.
    Only the most straightforward benefit claims will be included in the trial, with any cases with a hint of complexity excluded. Tameside council, (which is the only place piloting the benefit after pilots in three other areas were postponed last month), expects just 300 people to start claiming the benefit in the first month.

    Tameside told the Guardian that only single people with no children, newly claiming a benefit, will be told to claim universal credit, stipulating that they must also be fit for work, not be claiming disability benefits, not have any caring responsibilities, must not be homeless, living in temporary accommodation, and must have a valid bank account and national insurance number.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/apr/26/universal-credit-pilot-launch?CMP=twt_gu

    Not unusual to test limited functionality before full scalability, tim.

    Nothing much more in that article than a reiteration of well established opposition.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Tartan Tory James Kelly doesn't like right wing parties. What the hell is he doing in the SNP ?

    Between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the Scotariat.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522
    Interesting article. I think it's pretty obvious that food banks are a sign of societal failure, but it's undesirable for any party to appear to cash in on that, in the same way as oppositions shouldn't dance with glee if a factory closes. Showing sympathy and letting voters draw thier own conclusions is probably best.

    Spent the day in a more outlying, less politicised suburb than hitherto. Rather more switchers from the Tories than usual, both to us and to UKIP. There was more switching away from the Government over the economy than I've encountered before, which may seem perverse in view of the not-so-bad GDP figures. Some people are really struggling personally and moving into anyone-but-the-current-lot mode.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited April 2013

    Interesting article. I think it's pretty obvious that food banks are a sign of societal failure, but it's undesirable for any party to appear to cash in on that, in the same way as oppositions shouldn't dance with glee if a factory closes. Showing sympathy and letting voters draw thier own conclusions is probably best.

    Spent the day in a more outlying, less politicised suburb than hitherto. Rather more switchers from the Tories than usual, both to us and to UKIP. There was more switching away from the Government over the economy than I've encountered before, which may seem perverse in view of the not-so-bad GDP figures. Some people are really struggling personally and moving into anyone-but-the-current-lot mode.</blockqu





    Hasn't your boss , EdM , already cashed in on this legacy of the thirteen year New Labour occupation ? Ed's got no class like his here today gone to the US tomorrow brother.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Socrates said:

    Word has leaked out that the London-based firm ICAP, the world's largest broker of interest-rate swaps, is being investigated by American authorities for behavior that sounds eerily reminiscent of the Libor mess. Regulators are looking into whether or not a small group of brokers at ICAP may have worked with up to 15 of the world's largest banks to manipulate ISDAfix, a benchmark number used around the world to calculate the prices of interest-rate swaps.

    www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425

    The London banking sector really seems to be a cesspool of corruption. Why the hell do we always need to wait for the American regulators to act? What the hell is wrong with our ones? Why don't we have any journalists competent enough to unearth and report this stuff? I suppose our financial journalists get more clicks writing about who's on what bank note.

    are the Americans investigating their own bankers ? I haven't seen many of them fined or packed off to jail, but maybe that's just the reporting.
    Just the reporting. There's been scores of court cases over bankster fraud in the states with no jail but billions in fines for all the big banks - not that it matters as it's just a percentage of the loot from all the frauds but at least they go through the motions. Here, not a sausage.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Gruaniad confuses Cameron with "Head of State"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/26/blow-for-cameron-china-hollande?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    "In a blow to Cameron, who had hoped to hold an annual summit with the Chinese leadership, the French president François Hollande was on Friday feted in Shanghai on a full state visit a few weeks after the prime minister was due to visit China."
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Is anyone running a sweepstake on where JohnO may wake up tomorrow morning?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Two new German polls today:

    FW:

    CDU/CSU: 40%
    SPD: 28%
    Green: 14%
    Linke: 6%
    FDP: 4%
    AFD: 3%
    Others: 5%

    ID:

    CDU/CSU: 40%
    SPD: 27%
    Green: 14%
    Linke: 7%
    FDP: 4%
    AFD: 3%
    Pirates: 2%
    Others: 3%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @CarlottaVance

    "Gruaniad confuses Cameron with "Head of State"

    Electorate 2015 - Ed Miliband head in a state.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Andy JS - Looks like AFD is eating a little into the CDU/FDP vote, I think a Grand Coalition with Merkel Chancellor remains the most likely outcome
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    AveryLP said:

    Socrates said:

    AveryLP said:

    Socrates said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    @Avery.

    I'm al in favour of people giving their money to charity rather than destroying the incentives of the next generation an cluttering up society with a hapless class of trustafarians exporting wealth to the Colombian drug cartels.

    Why capitalists should like estate taxes
    From Adam Smith to Thomas Jefferson, lovers of freedom have demanded that social privilege be earned -- not inherited.


    http://www.salon.com/2001/02/15/estate_tax_2/

    I wonder how cloud borne Thomas Jefferson will be feeling about the prospects of Hillary Clinton inheriting the social privilege of the US Presidency. I guess he'll turn a blind eye on the basis that a bird by hand is worth more than two from the bush.
    Yes, other than playing a leading role in her college's part in the civil rights movement; gaining degrees in Government at Wellesely and Law at Yale; working as a lawyer, a college professor, and a company director; founding a children's charity; serving two terms as a US Senator; and four years as US Secretary of State, what the hell has she ever done to earn the Presidency?
    Married Bill Clinton?
    So if your husband is successful, you should be barred from political office?
    She is about to be handed her husband's former job on a plate.

    Seems a bit mean to ban her.

    does she get a cigar ?
    And a Saudi intern.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    DPJHodges Labour had better pray long and hard the new Qatada treaty works. Tories are serious about this ECHR stuff
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Also, Eurosceptic German party threatening to overtake the main Liberal party, remind you of anywhere?
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    edited April 2013
    Neil said:

    Is anyone running a sweepstake on where JohnO may wake up tomorrow morning?


    You may have forgotten in your own state of inebriation that you gave me your address.

    Be careful what you wish for....! Oh, and I do love a full english breakfast but please don't overcook the bacon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    Just caught a couple of minutes of Qt - for the first question, on whether Osborne's plan is working, did Farage actually manage to make his initial answer without tieing it all back to the waste of money going to Europe, or did I just blank off for a second? Much as a lot of people love to hear him bang on about Europe, has he in fact started being a bit cannier with it, by not crowbarring it in on every answer?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068

    Interesting article. I think it's pretty obvious that food banks are a sign of societal failure, but it's undesirable for any party to appear to cash in on that, in the same way as oppositions shouldn't dance with glee if a factory closes. Showing sympathy and letting voters draw thier own conclusions is probably best..

    Well, it'd be most unusual.

    Being beaten around the head about how I should feel about things, good or ill, appears far more regular.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    I know I'm late on the game on responding to QT, but my gods if people are going to criticise the government for borrowing a lot more than they planned, they should not act so surprised and give such crap answers to the question of whether, in that case, they'd borrow less.

    It surely cannot be hard to come up with an appropriate line to what is a predictable response.
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    I think it's pretty obvious that food banks are a sign of societal failure.

    Food banks are a sign of societal success.

    Though possibly a sign of economic failure.

  • shipmate1shipmate1 Posts: 37
    Another Labour let down and lying politician.

    "Southampton City Council leader Richard Williams resigns"
    -Mr Williams’ resignation came after an independent report found he had misled the public about the reasons for Cabinet colleague Keith Morrell’s resignation-

    Mr Morrell wanted to tell the truth about the finances and not make promises he couldn't keep - not acceptable in a Labour politician apparently... He was forced out but made to say for medical reasons.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    New St Station in Brum might be about to lose its title as the worst station in the country.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22311215
  • O/t Apols if posted before
    NEW YORK (AP) — A piece of landing gear believed to be from one of the planes destroyed in the Sept. 11 attacks has been discovered wedged between a New York City mosque site and another building.

    http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-part-9-11-planes-landing-gear-discovered-204101483.html
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    dr_spyn said:

    New St Station in Brum might be about to lose its title as the worst station in the country.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22311215

    It looks a bit like its been bombed - which may be a bit freudian.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    edited April 2013
    dr_spyn said:

    New St Station in Brum might be about to lose its title as the worst station in the country.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22311215

    Hmm, there's a 'They're moving it out of Birmingham then?' joke in there, but I cannot recall if I already made it lately. I'll just have to post modernly draw attention to the joke then.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    dr_spyn said:

    New St Station in Brum might be about to lose its title as the worst station in the country.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22311215

    It's a competitive category. Reading station has just added a remarkably ugly footbridge.

    http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/6339.aspx
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Socrates said:

    Word has leaked out that the London-based firm ICAP, the world's largest broker of interest-rate swaps, is being investigated by American authorities for behavior that sounds eerily reminiscent of the Libor mess. Regulators are looking into whether or not a small group of brokers at ICAP may have worked with up to 15 of the world's largest banks to manipulate ISDAfix, a benchmark number used around the world to calculate the prices of interest-rate swaps.

    www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425

    The London banking sector really seems to be a cesspool of corruption. Why the hell do we always need to wait for the American regulators to act? What the hell is wrong with our ones? Why don't we have any journalists competent enough to unearth and report this stuff? I suppose our financial journalists get more clicks writing about who's on what bank note.

    Totally agree on both points. Most of the best articles about corruption and plain criminality I have read since the crash have been in Rolling Stone. It is really remarkable. Their article about HSBC "Too big to Jail" was not just jaw dropping but also lively, entertaining and brilliantly researched.

    Despite this being a British bank all we saw here was some pathetic moaning about the Yanks picking on British companies. Is it our libel laws or are our journalists too damn lazy?
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    I see that our resident 'fascist not racist' still hasn't noticed that the SNP are a left-wing party. Bless.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I prefer Moor Street as it is difficult to get lost in that one!
    MrJones said:

    dr_spyn said:

    New St Station in Brum might be about to lose its title as the worst station in the country.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22311215

    It looks a bit like its been bombed - which may be a bit freudian.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    @James

    Looking at Aberdeen SNP politicians....I noted

    Joanna Strathdee: group leader on Aberdeenshire council, she stood in Aberdeen North in 2010 GE

    Callum McCaig: council leader in 2011-12, one of the youngest in the country. He worked for Maureen Watt, now woks for Kevin Stewart MSP.

    would any of these 2 passable/worthy as by-election candidate?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @AnotherDave

    The time lapse video is something else - interesting exercise in redevelopment.

    Wakefield Kirkgate seems to a Northern contender for worst station in England.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @MrJones

    Weren't there comments about the new shopping centre in Birmingham being an inverted womb.
This discussion has been closed.