Regardless of that Farage should be looking at more policies to appeal to disaffected lib dems and labour. That's just common sense if he wants to fully harness the protest vote. He has very little problem getting disenchanted tory voters so finding some kind of positive economic break for those other voters would be a wise priority.
Yes I think the change of tax policy hinted at on QT must be a nod to that. IIRC it was 31% for everone (inc NI) before, with the first £13000 tax free. I think now its 40% for high earners and betweeen 25-30% for everyone else, still inc of NI, with the no tax on minimum wage.
On QT last night Farage was definitely appealing to the working class rather than just disaffected Tories. Many people who are old school Labour ( by which I mean socially conservative non PC loving WWC) are pro Grammar schools, but welcome low taxes for low paid, and anti mass immigration
Lefties like the one here on the Guardian comments really dont get that WWC labour voters are attracted to UKIP becuase of this type of attitude, not turned off them...
AAAHAAHAHAHA are you still swallowing that old canard? UKIP is about as libertarian as pol pot!
The "libertarian" UKIP favours: - banning gay marriage - banning burqas - doubling defence spending - shutting down borders - building more and more prisons - hang 'em and flog 'em sentencing
I have several WWC tradesmen friends who fit this demographic very well - and aren't keen on gay marriage either - in earlier days we'd know them as Men's Men.
Very decent people who simply don't agree with the metrosexual agenda - calling them names doesn't address their concerns or their feelings. One in particular springs to mind.
He's married to an Indian-heritage lady who is a child minder/SureStart assistant. He's a carpenter, covered in tattoos, works 10hrs a day and is fiercely pro family and his kids. Nothing matters more than giving them more than he had, having a home of his own and living in a decent place away from gangs. They moved to Sussex from Morden in S London to do this.
If there was a KIpper voter - its him and his mates.
John Rentoul has just sent an interesting tweet but with no link given:
"Populus survey of "opinion formers": 40% say Lab-LD coalition most likely in 2015; 19% Lab govt; 18% Con-LD coalition; 18% Con govt."
So more than half of all opinion formers are see some kind of hung Parliament as most likely. Meanwhile, 6/4 on that prospect is widely available with bookies.
"So more than half of all opinion formers are see some kind of hung Parliament as most likely. Meanwhile, 6/4 on that prospect is widely available with bookies."
Evidently the ability to form an opinion is no guarantee that someone will understand the unlikelihood of a hung parliament under the current electoral system. And even if there is a hung parliament, it could well be that the Lib Dems hedge their bets this time and go for something short of coalition.
I'm al in favour of people giving their money to charity rather than destroying the incentives of the next generation an cluttering up society with a hapless class of trustafarians exporting wealth to the Colombian drug cartels.
Why capitalists should like estate taxes From Adam Smith to Thomas Jefferson, lovers of freedom have demanded that social privilege be earned -- not inherited.
I wonder how cloud borne Thomas Jefferson will be feeling about the prospects of Hillary Clinton inheriting the social privilege of the US Presidency. I guess he'll turn a blind eye on the basis that a bird by hand is worth more than two from the bush.
Yes, other than playing a leading role in her college's part in the civil rights movement; gaining degrees in Government at Wellesely and Law at Yale; working as a lawyer, a college professor, and a company director; founding a children's charity; serving two terms as a US Senator; and four years as US Secretary of State, what the hell has she ever done to earn the Presidency?
I'm al in favour of people giving their money to charity rather than destroying the incentives of the next generation an cluttering up society with a hapless class of trustafarians exporting wealth to the Colombian drug cartels.
Why capitalists should like estate taxes From Adam Smith to Thomas Jefferson, lovers of freedom have demanded that social privilege be earned -- not inherited.
I wonder how cloud borne Thomas Jefferson will be feeling about the prospects of Hillary Clinton inheriting the social privilege of the US Presidency. I guess he'll turn a blind eye on the basis that a bird by hand is worth more than two from the bush.
Yes, other than playing a leading role in her college's part in the civil rights movement; gaining degrees in Government at Wellesely and Law at Yale; working as a lawyer, a college professor, and a company director; founding a children's charity; serving two terms as a US Senator; and four years as US Secretary of State, what the hell has she ever done to earn the Presidency?
John Rentoul has just sent an interesting tweet but with no link given:
"Populus survey of "opinion formers": 40% say Lab-LD coalition most likely in 2015; 19% Lab govt; 18% Con-LD coalition; 18% Con govt."
So more than half of all opinion formers are see some kind of hung Parliament as most likely. Meanwhile, 6/4 on that prospect is widely available with bookies.
It's been the stand out bet for a very long time, Franky.
I expect this will become even more obvious after the Locals, so I've been topping up.
Founded from inherited wealth with operations which migrated from Bulgaria!
You and the other PBtories should bang on about Bulgaria and the EU more, Seth O Logue.
I can't see how that will be a problem for the tories at the locals.
Pork arrives at the PB foodbank.
Why do SNPers use other poster's user names? I'm really confused - we've seen it repeatedly with @Fitalass called Christine or @Avery_LP referred to as Seth O Logue.
Is this meant to be clever? Like some DeepThroat outing?
Frankly it strikes me as very childish and pointless - address the issue under debate. Most PBers have no idea what these refer to nor care less.
I also note they denounce free trade. I'm sure the US-EU deal is going to go ahead swimmingly... let's remember every year that goes past is a year we have lost out on being a member of NAFTA.
Talking of North Korea, Carlotta, did you see the reassurance provided by the MoD to a citizen who was deeply concerned by David Cameron's apparent belief that Glasgow is under threat of nuclear attack by North Korea, particularly if Scotland becomes independent?
“16 April 2013
Dear Ministry of Defence,
A couple of weeks ago the PM told us we were at threat of nuclear attack by North Korea. Living in Glasgow, what is the procedure if they do launch, where do I go? How do the MOD protect us – can they shoot the missile down? How will I know we are under attack? If they do launch, Trident isn’t much use, is it? Can Trident shoot down a missile? The South Koreans have Patriot missiles, do we? Are they any good? What are you doing to protect Glasgow?"
Founded from inherited wealth with operations which migrated from Bulgaria!
You and the other PBtories should bang on about Bulgaria and the EU more, Seth O Logue.
I can't see how that will be a problem for the tories at the locals.
Pork arrives at the PB foodbank.
Why do SNPers use other poster's user names? I'm really confused - we've seen it repeatedly with @Fitalass called Christine or @Avery_LP referred to as Seth O Logue.
Is this meant to be clever? Like some DeepThroat outing?
Frankly it strikes me as very childish and pointless - address the issue under debate. Most PBers have no idea what these refer to nor care less.
It's just to get under their/your/our skin. Much like the whining Tory meme and the PBTory moniker.
Any evidence that Labour working class voters are pro grammar school?
Given that even Tory councils such as Kent are trying to break the stranglehold gained through coaching of wealthier parents on Grammar Schools it seems unlikely
Well I know a few.. but I also know that doesnt count to you. I dont have an opinion poll to back it up.
Look at the applause Farage got for saying he would introduce them on QT last night
Which formula could be applied to UKIPs rise from nothing to 1/5 to come 2nd in South Shields
(and no lame jokes about fops etc)
When you explain what a Grammar school is to people who have never heard of them, lots of people cant understand why they were ever abolished.
The reason that there is such intense competition to get in them that private tuition is needed is because there are so few.
The truth comes down to how many food banks have at any given time been necessary rather than those which have been provided. Thus the Labour argument is that the government's policies have increased the number that are necessary. This is obviously plausible, and, in my opinion, undoubtedly correct to some extent or another.
The number of food bank users is a poor measure of the number of necessary food banks: it seems very unlikely indeed that only 2,814 people needed foodbanks in 2005/6. This is the point the government (/Tories) have touched upon but never said as clearly. Te fact that the numbers grew in every year suggest that the capacity of food banks has never reached, and indeed probably not come close (because the rate has not declined). The need for food banks, I would wager, did not double between 2011-2 and 2012-3.
The other thing Labour can properly do is say that as an absolute number this is too many people needing food banks. Their problem would lie in demonstrating from some other measure that they had not also failed, in absolute terms of the number in need, in their period of government. It would of course, not be unusual for the opposition to criticise the government for failing to address a problem that it did not a few years before; there is some political capital to be gained in doing so.
Why do SNPers use other poster's user names? I'm really confused - we've seen it repeatedly with @Fitalass called Christine or @Avery_LP referred to as Seth O Logue.
Is this meant to be clever? Like some DeepThroat outing?
Frankly it strikes me as very childish and pointless - address the issue under debate. Most PBers have no idea what these refer to nor care less.
Unspoofable as always.
No SNP posters have ever 'outed' a posters personal details. That would be you who did that.
Has the penny dropped yet? Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.
"Why do SNPers use other poster's user names? I'm really confused - we've seen it repeatedly with @Fitalass called Christine or @Avery_LP referred to as Seth O Logue."
Why do you always reimagine your irritation as "confusion", Plato? Frankly it strikes me as rather passive-aggressive, and that's so unlike you.
I've never referred to Fitalass as Christine, because her name is Christina. The clue was the several years when her username was "ChristinaD". Whisper it gently, but I think that probably also means her surname starts with the letter 'D'. Apologies if that's a state secret.
Why did you post a picture of Tim's home, by the way? Did we ever get to the bottom of that?
Founded from inherited wealth with operations which migrated from Bulgaria!
You and the other PBtories should bang on about Bulgaria and the EU more, Seth O Logue.
I can't see how that will be a problem for the tories at the locals.
Pork arrives at the PB foodbank.
Why do SNPers use other poster's user names? I'm really confused - we've seen it repeatedly with @Fitalass called Christine or @Avery_LP referred to as Seth O Logue.
Is this meant to be clever? Like some DeepThroat outing?
Frankly it strikes me as very childish and pointless - address the issue under debate. Most PBers have no idea what these refer to nor care less.
It's just to get under their/your/our skin. Much like the whining Tory meme and the PBTory moniker.
I grew out of such silliness when my shoe size changed to adult ones. I think I was about 11yrs old.
I'm al in favour of people giving their money to charity rather than destroying the incentives of the next generation an cluttering up society with a hapless class of trustafarians exporting wealth to the Colombian drug cartels.
Why capitalists should like estate taxes From Adam Smith to Thomas Jefferson, lovers of freedom have demanded that social privilege be earned -- not inherited.
I wonder how cloud borne Thomas Jefferson will be feeling about the prospects of Hillary Clinton inheriting the social privilege of the US Presidency. I guess he'll turn a blind eye on the basis that a bird by hand is worth more than two from the bush.
Yes, other than playing a leading role in her college's part in the civil rights movement; gaining degrees in Government at Wellesely and Law at Yale; working as a lawyer, a college professor, and a company director; founding a children's charity; serving two terms as a US Senator; and four years as US Secretary of State, what the hell has she ever done to earn the Presidency?
Married Bill Clinton?
So if your husband is successful, you should be barred from political office?
Talking of North Korea, Carlotta, did you see the reassurance provided by the MoD to a citizen who was deeply concerned by David Cameron's apparent belief that Glasgow is under threat of nuclear attack by North Korea, particularly if Scotland becomes independent?
“16 April 2013
Dear Ministry of Defence,
A couple of weeks ago the PM told us we were at threat of nuclear attack by North Korea. Living in Glasgow, what is the procedure if they do launch, where do I go? How do the MOD protect us – can they shoot the missile down? How will I know we are under attack? If they do launch, Trident isn’t much use, is it? Can Trident shoot down a missile? The South Koreans have Patriot missiles, do we? Are they any good? What are you doing to protect Glasgow?"
I have no idea why you engage in these discussions - they are a zero sum game that aren't about validating a point but distracting the debate in hand into a dead-end of micro technical point scoring.
Any evidence that Labour working class voters are pro grammar school?
Given that even Tory councils such as Kent are trying to break the stranglehold gained through coaching of wealthier parents on Grammar Schools it seems unlikely
Well I know a few.. but I also know that doesnt count to you. I dont have an opinion poll to back it up.
Look at the applause Farage got for saying he would introduce them on QT last night
Which formula could be applied to UKIPs rise from nothing to 1/5 to come 2nd in South Shields
(and no lame jokes about fops etc)
When you explain what a Grammar school is to people who have never heard of them, lots of people cant understand why they were ever abolished.
The reason that there is such intense competition to get in them that private tuition is needed is because there are so few.
Is that true? I would have thought that in some counties they are entirely absent, but in the counties where they have remained there would be just as many.
But really, the real victim of this is the Labour party, who seem to think it’s a good idea to ignore the statistics. Michael Dugher is Labour vice-chairman, so he’s paid to turn everything into a partisan row, but his decision to brand this as ‘let them eat leftovers’ and ‘another crass, patronising and out-of-touch lecture from a minister’ suggests Labour isn’t aware of the research published a few months ago by the Institute of Mechanical Engineers which showed that between 30 and 50 per cent of the food in developed countries is wasted. Funnily enough, the party’s Shadow Environment Secretary Mary Creagh has also been talking about reducing the amount of food wasted in this country, but clearly when a well-off Tory makes the same noises, he’s out of touch, rather than sensible.
"...so I tell them that Nigel Farage has spoken out in favour of decriminalising crack cocaine and heroin and prostitution, and that if we were to come out of Europe, 3,000 jobs would go in the area,"
3000 prostitutes jobs to go in South Shields? Better get SeanT up there fast.
Any evidence that Labour working class voters are pro grammar school?
Given that even Tory councils such as Kent are trying to break the stranglehold gained through coaching of wealthier parents on Grammar Schools it seems unlikely
Well I know a few.. but I also know that doesnt count to you. I dont have an opinion poll to back it up.
Look at the applause Farage got for saying he would introduce them on QT last night
Which formula could be applied to UKIPs rise from nothing to 1/5 to come 2nd in South Shields
(and no lame jokes about fops etc)
When you explain what a Grammar school is to people who have never heard of them, lots of people cant understand why they were ever abolished.
The reason that there is such intense competition to get in them that private tuition is needed is because there are so few.
Is that true? I would have thought that in some counties they are entirely absent, but in the counties where they have remained there would be just as many.
There are 8 in Essex. My Parents went to two that no longer exist. Hornchurch Grammar School is now Emerson Park Comprehensive.
As someone who rarely watches QT - after so many references to last night's edition - I now feel compelled to watch it - particularly given that Mr UKIP and Ms Green got several mentions for opposite reasons.
Any evidence that Labour working class voters are pro grammar school?
Given that even Tory councils such as Kent are trying to break the stranglehold gained through coaching of wealthier parents on Grammar Schools it seems unlikely
Well I know a few.. but I also know that doesnt count to you. I dont have an opinion poll to back it up.
Look at the applause Farage got for saying he would introduce them on QT last night
Which formula could be applied to UKIPs rise from nothing to 1/5 to come 2nd in South Shields
(and no lame jokes about fops etc)
When you explain what a Grammar school is to people who have never heard of them, lots of people cant understand why they were ever abolished.
The reason that there is such intense competition to get in them that private tuition is needed is because there are so few.
Is that true? I would have thought that in some counties they are entirely absent, but in the counties where they have remained there would be just as many.
There are 8 in Essex. My Parents went to two that no longer exist. Hornchurch Grammar School is now Emerson Park Comprehensive.
and part of the issue is that they are open to people who live outside your council boundary so the places aren't just allocated to the locals.
If Farage wants to restore grammars, does that mean he wants to bring back the eleven plus examination?
I think, and am not 100% sure, that he said it could be flexible/retaken and wouldnt be a case of people who fail it being slung on the scrap heap.. it is on UKIPs website
What would be wrong with the people passing it going to a GRammar school, and those failing it going to a comp? Theyd be no wrse off than they are now?
I'm al in favour of people giving their money to charity rather than destroying the incentives of the next generation an cluttering up society with a hapless class of trustafarians exporting wealth to the Colombian drug cartels.
Why capitalists should like estate taxes From Adam Smith to Thomas Jefferson, lovers of freedom have demanded that social privilege be earned -- not inherited.
I wonder how cloud borne Thomas Jefferson will be feeling about the prospects of Hillary Clinton inheriting the social privilege of the US Presidency. I guess he'll turn a blind eye on the basis that a bird by hand is worth more than two from the bush.
Yes, other than playing a leading role in her college's part in the civil rights movement; gaining degrees in Government at Wellesely and Law at Yale; working as a lawyer, a college professor, and a company director; founding a children's charity; serving two terms as a US Senator; and four years as US Secretary of State, what the hell has she ever done to earn the Presidency?
Married Bill Clinton?
So if your husband is successful, you should be barred from political office?
She is about to be handed her husband's former job on a plate.
As someone who rarely watches QT - after so many references to last night's edition - I now feel compelled to watch it - particularly given that Mr UKIP and Ms Green got several mentions for opposite reasons.
The Aussie leader of the Greens comes across as bad to me as EdM does to you!
On your previous point of why I engage, yes I can see your point.... Fool that I am I think one day they might say, "yes good point there I had misread the mood of the public"
I'm al in favour of people giving their money to charity rather than destroying the incentives of the next generation an cluttering up society with a hapless class of trustafarians exporting wealth to the Colombian drug cartels.
Why capitalists should like estate taxes From Adam Smith to Thomas Jefferson, lovers of freedom have demanded that social privilege be earned -- not inherited.
I wonder how cloud borne Thomas Jefferson will be feeling about the prospects of Hillary Clinton inheriting the social privilege of the US Presidency. I guess he'll turn a blind eye on the basis that a bird by hand is worth more than two from the bush.
Yes, other than playing a leading role in her college's part in the civil rights movement; gaining degrees in Government at Wellesely and Law at Yale; working as a lawyer, a college professor, and a company director; founding a children's charity; serving two terms as a US Senator; and four years as US Secretary of State, what the hell has she ever done to earn the Presidency?
Married Bill Clinton?
So if your husband is successful, you should be barred from political office?
She is about to be handed her husband's former job on a plate.
You should have saved that for me reminding everyone that you tipped Lansley to be PM, Seth O Logue.
Why do you feel the need to mention this several times every single day? Have you any idea how utterly dull it is?
I've no idea if it's true but, even if it is, (and assuming Lansley never does become PM), making one inaccurate prediction does not render every subsequent post the poster makes unworthy of consideration
As someone who rarely watches QT - after so many references to last night's edition - I now feel compelled to watch it - particularly given that Mr UKIP and Ms Green got several mentions for opposite reasons.
The Aussie leader of the Greens comes across as bad to me as EdM does to you!
On your previous point of why I engage, yes I can see your point.... Fool that I am I think one day they might say, "yes good point there I had misread the mood of the public"
I can't recall how many years ago others felt they had a mission to do and failed. It's a pointless exercise.
MickPortk, go to do your homework I assigned you some days ago. I didn't forget. I want it on my desk by the timeline.
You were actually replied to Andrea and at a fair bit of length. Your usual attention to detail and admirably even handed approach sadly seems to escape you whenever Galloway is mentioned. I only ask you to look objectively at his effectiveness as a high profile political figure who is self-evidently able to turn protest into votes, not agree with his politics. Farage is also just such a figure and I certainly don't agree with his politics but it is hardly invidious to appreciate and analyse his impact on politics in general. Same goes for Boris.
Sam - members of the white working class comes in all shapes and forms. Frankly, it's a bit bizarre to claim that they all think as one. Both my parents left school at 15, between them they had one O level. they scrimped, saved, aspired, worked hard, claimed benefits at times and all the rest of it. And their views were/are very different to those of my wife's parents, also working class, but from rural Warwickshire. Bob Crowe is WWC. I am not sure he wants to bring back grammar schools.
Presumably Hilary Benn was also a patronizing out-of- touch minister & the plebs can't understand the labels...
'“As a nation we waste around £10 billion of food each year – a third of what we buy. Part of the problem is how food is labelled. Some 370,000 tonnes of food are chucked out each year after passing their ‘best before’ dates, despite being perfectly good, safe and edible. When you buy something from the supermarket it should be easy to know how long you should keep it for and how you should store it. Too many of us are throwing things away simply because we’re not sure, we’re confused by the label, or we’re just playing safe.”
This is the wikli entry for UKIP on Grammar schools, cant find it on their website, but I think this is what I read previously
UKIP
The United Kingdom Independence Party advocates the retention of all existing grammar schools and encourages the creation of new grammar schools and specialist schools, which would be called ‘professional schools’. UKIP states that they would not return to a pass/fail 11-plus test but introduce a ‘Comprehensive Test’ to assess merit across a wide range of academic and non-academic abilities including vocational skills, crafts and sport.[
I'm al in favour of people giving their money to charity rather than destroying the incentives of the next generation an cluttering up society with a hapless class of trustafarians exporting wealth to the Colombian drug cartels.
Why capitalists should like estate taxes From Adam Smith to Thomas Jefferson, lovers of freedom have demanded that social privilege be earned -- not inherited.
I wonder how cloud borne Thomas Jefferson will be feeling about the prospects of Hillary Clinton inheriting the social privilege of the US Presidency. I guess he'll turn a blind eye on the basis that a bird by hand is worth more than two from the bush.
Yes, other than playing a leading role in her college's part in the civil rights movement; gaining degrees in Government at Wellesely and Law at Yale; working as a lawyer, a college professor, and a company director; founding a children's charity; serving two terms as a US Senator; and four years as US Secretary of State, what the hell has she ever done to earn the Presidency?
Married Bill Clinton?
So if your husband is successful, you should be barred from political office?
She is about to be handed her husband's former job on a plate.
Andrea, I haven't seen any speculation about the date yet. Presumably it'll be at some point in June, though, because they won't want to drag it into summer.
Runners and riders - God knows. Every single constituency SNP candidate in the northeast was successful in 2011. The biggest SNP casualties in other regions were Anne McLaughlin and Shirley-Anne Somerville, but I'm sure they'll want someone much more local. Maybe a councillor?
"The royal charter on press regulation agreed by parliament is a dead duck, according to industry sources I have consulted today.
They believe that the Privy Council cannot possibly ask the Queen to grant the charter because of the rules that it is obliged to follow. According to the council's guidance: "Any proposal which is rendered controversial by a counter-petition is unlikely to succeed."
So, given that the overwhelming majority of the press industry has put forward an alternative charter, there is little to no chance of the council assenting to the original charter. The press has effectively defeated the will of parliament....."
I really don't get grasp why the Greenies voted in an obvious Aussie to be their leader in the UK. She has no resonance with our wider votership - what appealed to the membership?
Sam - members of the white working class comes in all shapes and forms. Frankly, it's a bit bizarre to claim that they all think as one. Both my parents left school at 15, between them they had one O level. they scrimped, saved, aspired, worked hard, claimed benefits at times and all the rest of it. And their views were/are very different to those of my wife's parents, also working class, but from rural Warwickshire. Bob Crowe is WWC. I am not sure he wants to bring back grammar schools.
I know you like to split hairs and disagree with everything I say, but if you read what I wrote, I said "many people who are old school Labour.... are pro grammar schools", so while I agree with you that it is bizarre to think that a whole group of society might think as one, it is also true that I didnt say that they did.
Its also why I dont like to necessarily stand up for / patronise sections of society that i dont belong to as if they cant speak for themselves/all feel the same.
I'm having a look at QT which I missed. Funnily enough the by line doesn't mention that Farage is a member of the panel. Good old BBC.
The BBC have treated Kippers as a joke 1950s throwback for many years - and now the public are telling them they're wrong - they're confused and lost as to what to do.
I'm not a Kipper but can see a lot of reasons why others are.
"For the same reason you don't want an English PM?"
Not at all. I would be very happy to have an English Prime Minister of an independent Scotland, just so long as I agreed with his or her policies. Pretty much the same criteria that I apply to all Scottish politicians, actually.
Sam - members of the white working class comes in all shapes and forms. Frankly, it's a bit bizarre to claim that they all think as one. Both my parents left school at 15, between them they had one O level. they scrimped, saved, aspired, worked hard, claimed benefits at times and all the rest of it. And their views were/are very different to those of my wife's parents, also working class, but from rural Warwickshire. Bob Crowe is WWC. I am not sure he wants to bring back grammar schools.
I know you like to split hairs and disagree with everything I say, but if you read what I wrote, I said "many people who are old school Labour.... are pro grammar schools", so while I agree with you that it is bizarre to think that a whole group of society might think as one, it is also true that I didnt say that they did.
Its also why I dont like to necessarily stand up for / patronise sections of society that i dont belong to as if they cant speak for themselves/all feel the same.
Actually I am a supporter of grammar schools.
You do seem to make a lot of generalisations about the WWC. But maybe I am misreading your posts.
Even more subject to coaching by parents with money then.
But we've seen the biggest improvement in state schools in London over the last decade that the country has ever experienced, we know the solution.
London Challenge, plus an influx of immigrants who put a big emphasis on education in the home.
It has not only forced up achievements across all classes and racial groups,it has meant that children moving into London fare better than those who move out.
All the research has been done.
Instead UKIP seem to want a system which would extend the problem of skewing the system towards those who can afford coaching
Listen, I think more Grammar schools would benefit the clever but poor children in society and you dont. You arent going to convince me with stats because they can prove one thing to one person and disprove it to another. I know from 17 years in the betting game that relying on stats alone is misleading.
Just as I am not going to convince you with tales of people I know that are sending kids to private schools because there are no Grammar schools/pretending to be religious because the state schools are rubbish. You will find a poll that say they should send their kids to an inner city comp... and they would laugh in your face!
Sam - members of the white working class comes in all shapes and forms. Frankly, it's a bit bizarre to claim that they all think as one. Both my parents left school at 15, between them they had one O level. they scrimped, saved, aspired, worked hard, claimed benefits at times and all the rest of it. And their views were/are very different to those of my wife's parents, also working class, but from rural Warwickshire. Bob Crowe is WWC. I am not sure he wants to bring back grammar schools.
I know you like to split hairs and disagree with everything I say, but if you read what I wrote, I said "many people who are old school Labour.... are pro grammar schools", so while I agree with you that it is bizarre to think that a whole group of society might think as one, it is also true that I didnt say that they did.
Its also why I dont like to necessarily stand up for / patronise sections of society that i dont belong to as if they cant speak for themselves/all feel the same.
Actually I am a supporter of grammar schools.
You do seem to make a lot of generalisations about the WWC. But maybe I am misreading your posts.
You dont read them, as proved by your saying something that I never said was " a bit bizarre"
If your going to constantly criticize someone, get the facts right
"For the same reason you don't want an English PM?"
Not at all. I would be very happy to have an English Prime Minister of an independent Scotland, just so long as I agreed with his or her policies. Pretty much the same criteria that I apply to all Scottish politicians, actually.
Ah okay. I suppose we had our share of Scottish PMs so it's only fair for the reverse
On QT she did come across as a bit abrasive, and I recall her attitude to Farage wasn't great. Even if you disagree with someone, you should treat them with (at least) some respect!
Mr. JS, that reminds me of a story I heard of a chap (forget where he was from, it wasn't this country) who cut off his own foot and threw it into a fire so he'd not lose his benefits.
Trouble is none of the candidates except the Limp Dim one has bothered to have election leaflets sent out, or state when there is a local hustings meeting. It is very odd given that the postal vote deadline is approaching.
If they want to stand for office, why can't they make the effort to send out information of why they are wanting votes. Blaming George Fergusson is one option, but evading their own responsibilities to inform their electorate must be a a first.
Sam - members of the white working class comes in all shapes and forms. Frankly, it's a bit bizarre to claim that they all think as one. Both my parents left school at 15, between them they had one O level. they scrimped, saved, aspired, worked hard, claimed benefits at times and all the rest of it. And their views were/are very different to those of my wife's parents, also working class, but from rural Warwickshire. Bob Crowe is WWC. I am not sure he wants to bring back grammar schools.
I know you like to split hairs and disagree with everything I say, but if you read what I wrote, I said "many people who are old school Labour.... are pro grammar schools", so while I agree with you that it is bizarre to think that a whole group of society might think as one, it is also true that I didnt say that they did.
Its also why I dont like to necessarily stand up for / patronise sections of society that i dont belong to as if they cant speak for themselves/all feel the same.
Actually I am a supporter of grammar schools.
You do seem to make a lot of generalisations about the WWC. But maybe I am misreading your posts.
You dont read them, as proved by your saying something that I never said was " a bit bizarre"
If your going to constantly criticize someone, get the facts right
I don't constantly criticise you. Most of the time I ignore you. But sometimes you write something that is worth responding to. You shouldn't be so sensitive. This is an internet message board, not real life.
'Tim on Education in London, such erudition, such insight' :-
First it was all down to immigrants but when that wasn't supported by comparisons with other city's with high levels of immigrants,the line has been changed to London Challenge and immigrants.Pure comedy.
Sam - members of the white working class comes in all shapes and forms. Frankly, it's a bit bizarre to claim that they all think as one. Both my parents left school at 15, between them they had one O level. they scrimped, saved, aspired, worked hard, claimed benefits at times and all the rest of it. And their views were/are very different to those of my wife's parents, also working class, but from rural Warwickshire. Bob Crowe is WWC. I am not sure he wants to bring back grammar schools.
I know you like to split hairs and disagree with everything I say, but if you read what I wrote, I said "many people who are old school Labour.... are pro grammar schools", so while I agree with you that it is bizarre to think that a whole group of society might think as one, it is also true that I didnt say that they did.
Its also why I dont like to necessarily stand up for / patronise sections of society that i dont belong to as if they cant speak for themselves/all feel the same.
Actually I am a supporter of grammar schools.
You do seem to make a lot of generalisations about the WWC. But maybe I am misreading your posts.
You dont read them, as proved by your saying something that I never said was " a bit bizarre"
If your going to constantly criticize someone, get the facts right
I don't constantly criticise you. Most of the time I ignore you. But sometimes you write something that is worth responding to. You shouldn't be so sensitive. This is an internet message board, not real life.
If you are pro grammar school then I made a point that you agreed with, but you felt the need to respond to something I hadnt said...
I haven't seen Sahid Javid before but he looks terribly supine on QT - which party or org did he represent?
I believe he was the Tory panellist.
What a terrible choice for a big TV show - he just didn't cut the mustard at all - he made sensible points but had no balls for the fight. I hope it doesn't blackmark him but it was the wrong format for his style.
@Tim on Education in London, such erudition, such insight :-
It's one of his old favourites - population cleansing. Following tim's logic, shoving the WWC over a cliff and replacing them with imports will push the UK to the top of the league table. Woollas would be proud.
@Mick " I only ask you to look objectively at his effectiveness as a high profile political figure who is self-evidently able to turn protest into votes"
Maybe we misunderstood each other because I actually agree with this sentence! I believe he's an effective leader of his political party which can represent a section of the electorate and their concerns. That role suits him because it brings out his best qualities (charisma, oratory, ability to persuade people to follow or listen to him).
Yes, Shirley Ann and McLaughlin don't seem to have connection with Aberdeen. IIRC Aberdeen is not run by SNP. So I can see some of the Cllrs being ready to go to Holyrood.
I haven't seen Sahid Javid before but he looks terribly supine on QT - which party or org did he represent?
I believe he was the Tory panellist.
What a terrible choice for a big TV show - he just didn't cut the mustard at all - he made sensible points but had no balls for the fight. I hope it doesn't blackmark him but it was the wrong format for his style.
Maybe a 'strategic' choice, to avoid having a panellist ravaging Farage and alienating UKIP voters?
"Asked whether he still has plans to recognise marriage in the tax system the Prime Minister said: “Yes I do, we set them out at the last election in the Conservative manifesto. The Coalition agreement specifically said that while the Liberal Democrats don’t agree with them they would abstain if we promoted them and that’s exactly what we’ll do before the end of this Parliament.”
"Asked whether he still has plans to recognise marriage in the tax system the Prime Minister said: “Yes I do, we set them out at the last election in the Conservative manifesto. The Coalition agreement specifically said that while the Liberal Democrats don’t agree with them they would abstain if we promoted them and that’s exactly what we’ll do before the end of this Parliament.”
Almost.
Another poison pill for rEd Ed champion of the broken home - will he cancel it as it is unfair to single mums ?
Trouble is none of the candidates except the Limp Dim one has bothered to have election leaflets sent out, or state when there is a local hustings meeting. It is very odd given that the postal vote deadline is approaching.
If they want to stand for office, why can't they make the effort to send out information of why they are wanting votes. Blaming George Fergusson is one option, but evading their own responsibilities to inform their electorate must be a a first.
Apart from one pre-election leaflet there's been sweet FA round here so far. And two of the candidates live in this village!
I see the Leader of Southwark Council is raking in more fees from hairdressing than from the bar.
I also noted some Cllrs don't seem to have any other job and neither their partners (but maybe they are partner-less). And how many of them have a politic related job.
I haven't seen Sahid Javid before but he looks terribly supine on QT - which party or org did he represent?
I believe he was the Tory panellist.
What a terrible choice for a big TV show - he just didn't cut the mustard at all - he made sensible points but had no balls for the fight. I hope it doesn't blackmark him but it was the wrong format for his style.
Maybe a 'strategic' choice, to avoid having a panellist ravaging Farage and alienating UKIP voters?
I believe he's an effective leader of his political party
Then that's likely where we part ways. I believe Galloway is an effective leader of the Galloway party. I think his current affiliation is actually of surprisingly little consequence since he can appeal to the disenchanted labour voters (primarily) almost regardless of the venue. The other figure who springs to mind who had a parting of ways with labour like Galloway is Ken Livingstone. 'Red' Ken was brought back into the fold and that actually went pretty well considering he did then win. The last Mayoral election however did show us that Ken looked a bit of a spent force.
Please do not misunderstand me, I am certainly not touting Galloway for a London labour Mayoral candidate, (to be fair though, Izzard??) just pointing out that spats and feuds can sometimes be resolved and be beneficial for both sides.
I'm al in favour of people giving their money to charity rather than destroying the incentives of the next generation an cluttering up society with a hapless class of trustafarians exporting wealth to the Colombian drug cartels.
Why capitalists should like estate taxes From Adam Smith to Thomas Jefferson, lovers of freedom have demanded that social privilege be earned -- not inherited.
I wonder how cloud borne Thomas Jefferson will be feeling about the prospects of Hillary Clinton inheriting the social privilege of the US Presidency. I guess he'll turn a blind eye on the basis that a bird by hand is worth more than two from the bush.
Yes, other than playing a leading role in her college's part in the civil rights movement; gaining degrees in Government at Wellesely and Law at Yale; working as a lawyer, a college professor, and a company director; founding a children's charity; serving two terms as a US Senator; and four years as US Secretary of State, what the hell has she ever done to earn the Presidency?
Married Bill Clinton?
So if your husband is successful, you should be barred from political office?
She is about to be handed her husband's former job on a plate.
Seems a bit mean to ban her.
She's about to get it because Democrats think she has proven she is a team player that puts the country first, and has done a great job as Secretary of State. The fact that she didn't get it last time is evidence that they don't expect anyone to get it on a plate.
I was just referring to the register of interests that Andrea quoted from earlier.
Is this yet another example of you claiming a fact based point but failing to be associated with it by referring to using Google.
Sorry but I've seen many of these on PB - unless you provide evidence using your user name - I discount whatever assertions you make. Being funny about other posters isn't an universal get out
Comments
On QT last night Farage was definitely appealing to the working class rather than just disaffected Tories. Many people who are old school Labour ( by which I mean socially conservative non PC loving WWC) are pro Grammar schools, but welcome low taxes for low paid, and anti mass immigration
Very decent people who simply don't agree with the metrosexual agenda - calling them names doesn't address their concerns or their feelings. One in particular springs to mind.
He's married to an Indian-heritage lady who is a child minder/SureStart assistant. He's a carpenter, covered in tattoos, works 10hrs a day and is fiercely pro family and his kids. Nothing matters more than giving them more than he had, having a home of his own and living in a decent place away from gangs. They moved to Sussex from Morden in S London to do this.
If there was a KIpper voter - its him and his mates.
"Populus survey of "opinion formers": 40% say Lab-LD coalition most likely in 2015; 19% Lab govt; 18% Con-LD coalition; 18% Con govt."
So more than half of all opinion formers are see some kind of hung Parliament as most likely. Meanwhile, 6/4 on that prospect is widely available with bookies.
Evidently the ability to form an opinion is no guarantee that someone will understand the unlikelihood of a hung parliament under the current electoral system. And even if there is a hung parliament, it could well be that the Lib Dems hedge their bets this time and go for something short of coalition.
Bristol Mayor George Fergusson tweeted:
#Leadership is not about listening to loudest voices but quiet voices, inner voices and those of our children and yet to be born
I expect this will become even more obvious after the Locals, so I've been topping up.
Is this meant to be clever? Like some DeepThroat outing?
Frankly it strikes me as very childish and pointless - address the issue under debate. Most PBers have no idea what these refer to nor care less.
“16 April 2013
Dear Ministry of Defence,
A couple of weeks ago the PM told us we were at threat of nuclear attack by North Korea. Living in Glasgow, what is the procedure if they do launch, where do I go? How do the MOD protect us – can they shoot the missile down? How will I know we are under attack? If they do launch, Trident isn’t much use, is it? Can Trident shoot down a missile? The South Koreans have Patriot missiles, do we? Are they any good? What are you doing to protect Glasgow?"
http://wingsoverscotland.com/there-goes-the-fear/
That could well become something of a classic.
The new Venezuelan sports minister:
http://www.telediario.mx/images/alebentitas112.jpg
I noticed that you disagreed with the opinion of a friend of mine and likely Kipper voter - how can you possibly do that?
You don't know him!
Well I know a few.. but I also know that doesnt count to you. I dont have an opinion poll to back it up.
Look at the applause Farage got for saying he would introduce them on QT last night
Which formula could be applied to UKIPs rise from nothing to 1/5 to come 2nd in South Shields
(and no lame jokes about fops etc)
When you explain what a Grammar school is to people who have never heard of them, lots of people cant understand why they were ever abolished.
The reason that there is such intense competition to get in them that private tuition is needed is because there are so few.
The number of food bank users is a poor measure of the number of necessary food banks: it seems very unlikely indeed that only 2,814 people needed foodbanks in 2005/6. This is the point the government (/Tories) have touched upon but never said as clearly. Te fact that the numbers grew in every year suggest that the capacity of food banks has never reached, and indeed probably not come close (because the rate has not declined). The need for food banks, I would wager, did not double between 2011-2 and 2012-3.
The other thing Labour can properly do is say that as an absolute number this is too many people needing food banks. Their problem would lie in demonstrating from some other measure that they had not also failed, in absolute terms of the number in need, in their period of government. It would of course, not be unusual for the opposition to criticise the government for failing to address a problem that it did not a few years before; there is some political capital to be gained in doing so.
No SNP posters have ever 'outed' a posters personal details. That would be you who did that.
Has the penny dropped yet? Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.
Urgh etc.
Why do you always reimagine your irritation as "confusion", Plato? Frankly it strikes me as rather passive-aggressive, and that's so unlike you.
I've never referred to Fitalass as Christine, because her name is Christina. The clue was the several years when her username was "ChristinaD". Whisper it gently, but I think that probably also means her surname starts with the letter 'D'. Apologies if that's a state secret.
Why did you post a picture of Tim's home, by the way? Did we ever get to the bottom of that?
No I didn't. I disagreed with your post, so I pressed the 'disagree' button. I was under the impression that's what it's there for.
Let's remember it was you and your chums that wanted this stupid system - do at least be consistent.
We have sent Kim Fat Wun a photograph of downtown Glasgow.
North Korea has now removed your city from its list of active targets and twinned it with Pyongyang..
Count yourself safe.
With best regards
Ministry of Defence
I have no idea why you engage in these discussions - they are a zero sum game that aren't about validating a point but distracting the debate in hand into a dead-end of micro technical point scoring.
But really, the real victim of this is the Labour party, who seem to think it’s a good idea to ignore the statistics. Michael Dugher is Labour vice-chairman, so he’s paid to turn everything into a partisan row, but his decision to brand this as ‘let them eat leftovers’ and ‘another crass, patronising and out-of-touch lecture from a minister’ suggests Labour isn’t aware of the research published a few months ago by the Institute of Mechanical Engineers which showed that between 30 and 50 per cent of the food in developed countries is wasted. Funnily enough, the party’s Shadow Environment Secretary Mary Creagh has also been talking about reducing the amount of food wasted in this country, but clearly when a well-off Tory makes the same noises, he’s out of touch, rather than sensible.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/isabel-hardman/2013/04/labour-ignores-reality-with-its-political-hunger-games/
"...so I tell them that Nigel Farage has spoken out in favour of decriminalising crack cocaine and heroin and prostitution, and that if we were to come out of Europe, 3,000 jobs would go in the area,"
3000 prostitutes jobs to go in South Shields? Better get SeanT up there fast.
For those who missed it - here is the linky.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01s5g2k/Question_Time_25_04_2013/
PS I noticed that NO ONE mentioned the LD PEB at all unless I've gone blind - it was screened earlier last night
Here it is http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01s2ylp/Party_Election_Broadcasts_English_Local_Elections_2013_The_Liberal_Democrats_25_04_2013/
I think, and am not 100% sure, that he said it could be flexible/retaken and wouldnt be a case of people who fail it being slung on the scrap heap.. it is on UKIPs website
What would be wrong with the people passing it going to a GRammar school, and those failing it going to a comp? Theyd be no wrse off than they are now?
I went to a comp by the way, didnt help me much
Plato, shame on you. You didn't tell us that in the Da Vinci's Demons premiere there was Lord Grantham of Downton Abbey naked!
MickPortk, go to do your homework I assigned you some days ago. I didn't forget. I want it on my desk by the timeline.
JamesKelly...when is Donside by-election likely to take place? And who are the runners and riders for SNP nomination?
"Isabel Hardman on 'let them eat leftovers'
I regularly do this - is this now unacceptable? When did this happen? How is it a measure of poverty?
Can we have a GetALife one ?
*Invitation to write a 2000 word blog about how horrible I am to your ego*
Seems a bit mean to ban her.
On your previous point of why I engage, yes I can see your point.... Fool that I am I think one day they might say, "yes good point there I had misread the mood of the public"
Seeing Hugh Bonneville in the buff before 9am had me recoiling in horror! Thankfully - other members of the cast made sure it didn't happen again...
I've no idea if it's true but, even if it is, (and assuming Lansley never does become PM), making one inaccurate prediction does not render every subsequent post the poster makes unworthy of consideration
Presumably Hilary Benn was also a patronizing out-of- touch minister & the plebs can't understand the labels...
'“As a nation we waste around £10 billion of food each year – a third of what we buy. Part of the problem is how food is labelled. Some 370,000 tonnes of food are chucked out each year after passing their ‘best before’ dates, despite being perfectly good, safe and edible.
When you buy something from the supermarket it should be easy to know how long you should keep it for and how you should store it. Too many of us are throwing things away simply because we’re not sure, we’re confused by the label, or we’re just playing safe.”
I'm having a look at QT which I missed. Funnily enough the by line doesn't mention that Farage is a member of the panel. Good old BBC.
UKIP
The United Kingdom Independence Party advocates the retention of all existing grammar schools and encourages the creation of new grammar schools and specialist schools, which would be called ‘professional schools’. UKIP states that they would not return to a pass/fail 11-plus test but introduce a ‘Comprehensive Test’ to assess merit across a wide range of academic and non-academic abilities including vocational skills, crafts and sport.[
Runners and riders - God knows. Every single constituency SNP candidate in the northeast was successful in 2011. The biggest SNP casualties in other regions were Anne McLaughlin and Shirley-Anne Somerville, but I'm sure they'll want someone much more local. Maybe a councillor?
"The royal charter on press regulation agreed by parliament is a dead duck, according to industry sources I have consulted today.
They believe that the Privy Council cannot possibly ask the Queen to grant the charter because of the rules that it is obliged to follow. According to the council's guidance: "Any proposal which is rendered controversial by a counter-petition is unlikely to succeed."
So, given that the overwhelming majority of the press industry has put forward an alternative charter, there is little to no chance of the council assenting to the original charter. The press has effectively defeated the will of parliament....."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!
If this happens what will happen next?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2013/apr/26/press-regulation-judicial-committee-of-the-privy-council
Why the hell shouldn't they? Australians have full voting rights in the UK.
Its also why I dont like to necessarily stand up for / patronise sections of society that i dont belong to as if they cant speak for themselves/all feel the same.
I'm not a Kipper but can see a lot of reasons why others are.
"For the same reason you don't want an English PM?"
Not at all. I would be very happy to have an English Prime Minister of an independent Scotland, just so long as I agreed with his or her policies. Pretty much the same criteria that I apply to all Scottish politicians, actually.
You do seem to make a lot of generalisations about the WWC. But maybe I am misreading your posts.
Listen, I think more Grammar schools would benefit the clever but poor children in society and you dont. You arent going to convince me with stats because they can prove one thing to one person and disprove it to another. I know from 17 years in the betting game that relying on stats alone is misleading.
Just as I am not going to convince you with tales of people I know that are sending kids to private schools because there are no Grammar schools/pretending to be religious because the state schools are rubbish. You will find a poll that say they should send their kids to an inner city comp... and they would laugh in your face!
Agree to disagree I think.
A man has died after he was shot with a Taser gun by police officers despite being doused in a flammable liquid, it emerged today.
Andrew Pimlott, 32, suffered serious burn injuries following the stand-of with police officers in Honicknowle, Plymouth, last Thursday.
The injuries resulted in him dying in Bristol's Frenchay Hospital, on Tuesday.
Today, the Independent Police Complaints Commission announced it has launched an investigation into his death.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2315339/Police-investigation-father-32-covered-petrol-shot-TASER-dies-horrific-burns-hospital.html#ixzz2RaSZSyEz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Agreed. But what about those who can't make ends meet because of their own fault. What do you think should be done with them?
If your going to constantly criticize someone, get the facts right
Bit extreme - "Two Spanish men who cut off their own hands in £2 million insurance scam are found out because they did the job too well":
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2315346/Two-Spanish-men-chopped-HANDS-2million-insurance-scams--did-well.html
On QT she did come across as a bit abrasive, and I recall her attitude to Farage wasn't great. Even if you disagree with someone, you should treat them with (at least) some respect!
That's a serious commitment to bone idleness.
The issue just doesn't interest me. They are tiny in number and I am sick to death of people using them as a convenient excuse to clobber the poor.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/26/bristol-local-election-councillors-role?CMP=twt_gu
Trouble is none of the candidates except the Limp Dim one has bothered to have election leaflets sent out, or state when there is a local hustings meeting. It is very odd given that the postal vote deadline is approaching.
If they want to stand for office, why can't they make the effort to send out information of why they are wanting votes. Blaming George Fergusson is one option, but evading their own responsibilities to inform their electorate must be a a first.
'Tim on Education in London, such erudition, such insight' :-
First it was all down to immigrants but when that wasn't supported by comparisons with other city's with high levels of immigrants,the line has been changed to London Challenge and immigrants.Pure comedy.
Say sorry and alls forgiven...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10021348/Married-couples-to-get-tax-breaks-before-election-says-Cameron.html
Maybe we misunderstood each other because I actually agree with this sentence! I believe he's an effective leader of his political party which can represent a section of the electorate and their concerns. That role suits him because it brings out his best qualities (charisma, oratory, ability to persuade people to follow or listen to him).
@James
Yes, Shirley Ann and McLaughlin don't seem to have connection with Aberdeen. IIRC Aberdeen is not run by SNP. So I can see some of the Cllrs being ready to go to Holyrood.
Perfect.
Probably not though
Sounds simple enough...
"Asked whether he still has plans to recognise marriage in the tax system the Prime Minister said: “Yes I do, we set them out at the last election in the Conservative manifesto. The Coalition agreement specifically said that while the Liberal Democrats don’t agree with them they would abstain if we promoted them and that’s exactly what we’ll do before the end of this Parliament.”
Almost.
Well they always say that the problem is fighting the last war and that seems to be the case here.
I was just referring to the register of interests that Andrea quoted from earlier.
Please do not misunderstand me, I am certainly not touting Galloway for a London labour Mayoral candidate, (to be fair though, Izzard??) just pointing out that spats and feuds can sometimes be resolved and be beneficial for both sides.
Sorry but I've seen many of these on PB - unless you provide evidence using your user name - I discount whatever assertions you make. Being funny about other posters isn't an universal get out