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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Henry G Manson looks at the politics of food banks

SystemSystem Posts: 12,159
edited April 2013 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Henry G Manson looks at the politics of food banks

This week Ed Miliband was campaigning in Oxfordshire and visited a food bank in the Prime Minister’s constituency. I was surprised that the people of Witney needed a food bank, but perhaps it’s a sign of the times. It struck me how ‘food banks’ have become a live political issue now and are not just a response to real hardship.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,165
    FPT: TSE - I too think the FA are often as useless as a wet sack of noodles, but should every decision be hamstrung from what occurred in 2006 ?
  • So the biggest increase in per centage terms happened under Labour?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Good thread Henry - its a minefield for both major parties - 'Nasty Tories' and 'Welfare Labour' - but I'm not sure it resonates much outside those who use them and the committed voters of either party - who will see either 'Christian charity' or 'State Failure' behind their growth - depending on where they are looking from. We kept reading on here how the 'bedroom tax' was 'absolutely toxic' for the Tories - doesn't seem to be the case....
  • Eradicating this and homelessness should be a government target.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @Henry

    Agree - it's great that they are there. It's terrible that they need to be there.

    I suspect if you were to dig into the numbers there are a lot of one-time users (e.g. as benefits switch). That's not to undermine the issue, but to make the point that it's not 350,000 using them every day or week.

    The fundamental problem is that the cost of living is so darn high in this country. And a massive amount of that is down to government policies over many years:

    - VAT
    - building restrictions (impacting rents)
    - rates
    - social costs for employees
    - energy policies

    All of these add to the cost of living and make it very expensive.
  • Am I the only one gutted that they are removing Elizabeth Fry from the fiver.

    She's an angel. She did a lot to improve the lives of prisoners.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    Oh, how disappointing - I was hoping for a graph of children sent up chimneys by Evil Tories. But quoting Stewart Jackson? Really?

    We could ask IDS to sign copies of the Water Babies. This was standard fare in my childhood - I never noticed it was anti-anyone which is why it fell out of favour - but never forgot Mrs Doasyouwouldbedoneby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Water-Babies,_A_Fairy_Tale_for_a_Land_Baby

    "The protagonist is Tom, a young chimney sweep, who falls into a river after encountering an upper-class girl named Ellie and being chased out of her house. There he drowns and is transformed into a "water baby", as he is told by a caddisfly—an insect that sheds its skin—and begins his moral education. The story is thematically concerned with Christian redemption, though Kingsley also uses the book to argue that England treats its poor badly, and to question child labour, among other themes.

    Tom embarks on a series of adventures and lessons, and enjoys the community of other water babies once he proves himself a moral creature. The major spiritual leaders in his new world are the fairies Mrs. Doasyouwouldbedoneby (a reference to the Golden Rule), Mrs. Bedonebyasyoudid, and Mother Carey. Weekly, Tom is allowed the company of Ellie, who drowned after he did.

    Grimes, his old master, drowns as well, and in his final adventure, Tom travels to the end of the world to attempt to help the man where he is being punished for his misdeeds. Tom helps Grimes to find repentance, and Grimes will be given a second chance if he can successfully perform a final penance. By proving his willingness to do things he does not like, if they are the right things to do, Tom earns himself a return to human form, and becomes "a great man of science" who "can plan railways, and steam-engines, and electric telegraphs, and rifled guns, and so forth". He and Ellie are united, although the book claims that they never marry.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Now Henry starts a run on the food banks.

    Very much off topic - this might amuse, appal- a signal passed at danger (SPAD).

    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10382639.Low_loader_carrying_steam_train_demolishes_traffic_lights_in_Keighley/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Reading the Trussel Trust's website it appears to be '345,000' '3 day packages' of food - so it will be a mix of 'one off emergencies' and people using it multiple times. So 'how many families' is probably unknowable.

    The most common reasons for using the food banks are:

    Benefit Delay: 30
    Low Income: 18
    Benefit Cut: 15
    Debt: 10

    Homelessness accounts for 4% - but then looking at the food they provide that's hardly surprising - you'd need a kitchen to use it.

    http://www.trusselltrust.org/stats

    They are doing good work.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    When you strip away the morals and taboos, what is happening here is that an important resource is being used more efficiently than it otherwise would be.

    Even if welfare payments were doubled, it would still be worth having food banks as they would still enable the poorest to save on food and spend on other essentials.

    And so really its a question of names. 'Food bank' comes from straight out of the 1930s. 'Nourishment resources rebalancing centre' sound more 21 century.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    FPT
    Plato said:

    @Pulpstar

    If Sheik Mohammed was Russian, I'd expect Zarooni to be meeting a mysterious demise via Polonium in the next few weeks.

    Frankly, I'm amazed he hasn't been warned off for life.

    I'm not sure the Sheik Mohammed can get up on his 'high horse'.

    He himself was banned by the FEI from endurance riding competitions for six months in 2009 when two of his horses failed dope tests.

    One of his wifes, Princess Haya, is President of the FEI and has been leading a drive to clean up equestrian sports. There is now likely to be polite pressure on her to retire from her position gracefully.

    But I don't think anyone connected with the sport believes that the administration of inappropriate drugs to horses is confined to the Godolphin operations. In fact most believe it is widespread.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sadly, I don't think this will have much political impact. It won't change votes.

    People already know that times are tough and most people accept that there are people out there really struggling who deserve help. Labour will argue that welfare benefits should not be cut, the Conservatives will argue that further targeted cuts are required to ensure that the deserving get the help that they need and no one will change their minds.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013
    Shouldn’t Stewart Jackson show some humility at the contribution of his own government’s policies that have affected some of the poorest resulting in people unable to feed their families?

    If it were true, then possibly. But since the government's policies have had the opposite impact, no.

    More to the point, shouldn't Labour show some humility at the fact that they have campaigned for significant chunks of the welfare budget to be directed towards the well-off, in the forms of child benefit and housing benefit, at a time when there are some people in real need?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT I'm after a replacement for Yellow Tweetdeck as the Blue version is just appalling and 20 steps back from its previous functionality [I'm having a Disqus moment here]

    I'm trying DestroyTwitter which is okay but its stalls if I use it at the same time as a peer2peer app which renders it pointless as the notifications windows doesn't pop up more than once every 40 tweets ...

    Any suggestions?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Ed M's cunning political stunt visit a food bank in the PM's back yard.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Meanwhile, in the Eurozone:

    Spain's government has revised down its forecast for the Spanish economy this year, saying the level of contraction will likely be worse than previously predicted.

    Madrid now expects the economy to contract by 1.3% in 2013, compared with its earlier estimate of -0.5%.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22305953#TWEET735756
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Plato said:

    Oh, how disappointing - I was hoping for a graph of children sent up chimneys by Evil Tories. But quoting Stewart Jackson? Really?

    We could ask IDS to sign copies of the Water Babies. This was standard fare in my childhood - I never noticed it was anti-anyone which is why it fell out of favour - but never forgot Mrs Doasyouwouldbedoneby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Water-Babies,_A_Fairy_Tale_for_a_Land_Baby

    @Plato:

    What do you send up chimneys now in Sussex - cats??

    I bought my granddaughter a beautiful illustrated edition last Christmas and she loves it and really understands the behavioural morals the book teaches and has taken it to school as it was not in the school library. Such a contrast to the electronic games of destruction played today.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Financier said:

    Am I the only one gutted that they are removing Elizabeth Fry from the fiver.

    She's an angel. She did a lot to improve the lives of prisoners.

    @TSE

    Yes she was, but also I think it is good to change our notables from time to time. It is a very good way of teaching history or raising a discussion on that topic.
    I still associate £10 notes with Florence Nightingale - but Elizabeth Fry was a very worthy replacement. Shame we no longer have £1 notes - the only time I see them now is very rarely in charm bracelets.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1998863.stm

    Pix http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m2LF2xUMHKdwBJfx2YCmoUQ.jpg

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    She's an angel. She did a lot to improve the lives of prisoners.

    True, but people extolling the virtues of the wealthy victorian philanthropists would do well to remember that the social contract was very different then to what it is now.

    THEY PAID NO TAX. That's how all those fabulous english country houses got there.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Meanwhile, in the Eurozone:

    Spain's government has revised down its forecast for the Spanish economy this year, saying the level of contraction will likely be worse than previously predicted.

    Madrid now expects the economy to contract by 1.3% in 2013, compared with its earlier estimate of -0.5%.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22305953#TWEET735756

    Does Ed still want us to join the Euro?
  • dr_spyn said:

    Now Henry starts a run on the food banks.

    Very much off topic - this might amuse, appal- a signal passed at danger (SPAD).

    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10382639.Low_loader_carrying_steam_train_demolishes_traffic_lights_in_Keighley/

    dr_spyn said:

    Now Henry starts a run on the food banks.

    Very much off topic - this might amuse, appal- a signal passed at danger (SPAD).

    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10382639.Low_loader_carrying_steam_train_demolishes_traffic_lights_in_Keighley/

    Glad it wasn't one of the low loaders that I look after!

  • Can't we put Edward Longshanks on the fiver instead?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Henry G. Manson has posted proof positive that he is a true Keynesian economist. He is basing the arguments in his article on Keynes's dictum that "demand creates supply".

    Others on PB may wish to interpret the rising number of foodbanks on the basis of David Ricardo's original theory, refuted by Keynes, that "supply creates demand".

    I have to say I am completely at odds knowing which theory to prefer. We urgently need Mick O'Nachos to return to PB to shine the light.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    Oh, how disappointing - I was hoping for a graph of children sent up chimneys by Evil Tories. But quoting Stewart Jackson? Really?

    We could ask IDS to sign copies of the Water Babies. This was standard fare in my childhood - I never noticed it was anti-anyone which is why it fell out of favour - but never forgot Mrs Doasyouwouldbedoneby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Water-Babies,_A_Fairy_Tale_for_a_Land_Baby

    @Plato:

    What do you send up chimneys now in Sussex - cats??

    I bought my granddaughter a beautiful illustrated edition last Christmas and she loves it and really understands the behavioural morals the book teaches and has taken it to school as it was not in the school library. Such a contrast to the electronic games of destruction played today.
    There aren't many books that really made an impression on me as a child - but the Water Babies did. My personal favourite was a compendium of fairy tales called The Land of Tall Tales - it was beautiful A3, chinagraph paper and sumptuously illustrated. It got lost when my mum died and the house was cleared. I can still recall almost every page and haven't seen it in over 30yrs. I've had a look about for one but never found a copy.

    It was the best fairy tale book I ever saw - the perfect present for a girl from about 8-12yrs old.

    PS Cats like hiding in chimneys when the hoover is out...

    PPS There seems to be resurgence in TV shows about fairy tales with Grimm and Once Upon A Time - they're PG/12 stuff but very watchable.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    The Rise of the Food Banks

    What should be the response?
    On PB?

    LOL

    You're avin a laugh Mr Manson.

    We all know what the PBtories response will be.


  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Henry M.

    Thank you for an unusual topic. Do you know the statistical source used by LFF for their chart?

    There is still a lot of food that is either overstocked or just past sell-by-date that retailers have destroyed rather than give away due to previous experience of litigation from no-win, no-fee solicitors.

    Also the EU forces a lot of produce to be dumped that is the wrong shape/size etc. Last time I was at a French market, I was encouraged to see such regulations ignored and small and imperfectly shaped produce was sold and quickly bought at very competitive prices - they did not require a maze of packaging either.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    edited April 2013
    Just outrageous. Back to the cardboard box cities of Thatcher's time. The beggars are multiplying exponentially. It's there for all to see. Tory governments always lead in the same direction.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited April 2013
    dr_spyn said:

    Now Henry starts a run on the food banks.

    Very much off topic - this might amuse, appal- a signal passed at danger (SPAD).

    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10382639.Low_loader_carrying_steam_train_demolishes_traffic_lights_in_Keighley/

    The Telegraph and Argus is very funny. I liked this story, especially the picture of a blue van "like the stone thieves used". In the article it appears the van was actually white.
    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10344310.Yorkshire_stone_stolen_from_Bradford_street/?ref=ar
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    tim said:

    much of the problem for the Tories with this issue is that Cameron and his gilded circle know how vulnerable they are when responding to issues such as this.

    Good job the opposition front bench is staffed by ex-comprehensive school pupils. No wealthy, elite Oxbridge PPE students there, no siree.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Financier said:

    Henry M.

    Thank you for an unusual topic. Do you know the statistical source used by LFF for their chart?

    The infographic is likely to represent the rise in the LFF's capacity (improvements in organisation, fund-raising, and also public awareness increasing the number of referrals) more than than the increase in demand for their services. Even with lower poverty rates there will always be demand for food packages, and the charity is certainly not operating at a sufficient scale to satiate it. Had their current network been functioning in 2005/6 it would be a safe bet that the 2,814 figure would be far higher. I might have been making use of them myself...

    Any attempt at using the graph as a sign of increasing poverty rates is either data-illiterate or partisan. (Depending on how you measure it, poverty has increased pretty sharply since the financial crisis, but this graph isn't showing the relevant data.)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    edited April 2013
    @Financier. "There is still a lot of food that is either overstocked or just past sell-by-date that retailers have destroyed rather than give away due to previous experience of litigation from no-win, no-fee solicitors."

    The rules are very strict. I did a commercial recently for which we effectively bought up an entire market but we weren't allowed to give it away. I did a similar one in Germany a while ago and we had no such problem. I don't think it's an EU issue
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    taffys said:

    She's an angel. She did a lot to improve the lives of prisoners.

    True, but people extolling the virtues of the wealthy victorian philanthropists would do well to remember that the social contract was very different then to what it is now.

    THEY PAID NO TAX. That's how all those fabulous english country houses got there.

    Income tax was introduced in 1842 (ignoring the temporary blip during the Napoleonic wars).

    The fabulous houses got there because the UK was at the cutting edge of economic development of the time and entrepreneurs made huge amounts of money.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    kle4 said:

    FPT

    Mick_Pork said:

    kle4 said:

    "This is not the same Farage from 2010. Few yet appreciate that fully. "A fair point. I'm not sure when the turning point came exactly, or what constituted it, but for some reason the media portrayal and general perception of Farage definitely shifted at some point. Like Boris being seen as a genuinely significant figure - people joked about it for years, some still joke about it being true now, but it is a fact that he is, and Farage similarly has had a perception transformation.

    If he plays it right and is lucky, whoever follows after him could take UKIP to the next level.

    Funny you should say that. ;).
    I shall say no more but you are not the first to have realised this.
    I would not give myself that much credit to think I would be.
    It's not a question of credit kle4, it's that it's becoming more and more noticable and quite a few people are commenting on it now. Which I suspected would be the case.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "The royal charter on press regulation agreed by parliament is a dead duck, according to industry sources I have consulted today.

    They believe that the Privy Council cannot possibly ask the Queen to grant the charter because of the rules that it is obliged to follow.
    According to the council's guidance: "Any proposal which is rendered controversial by a counter-petition is unlikely to succeed."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2013/apr/26/press-regulation-judicial-committee-of-the-privy-council?CMP=twt_fd
  • Have some experience of referring clients to food banks, most are mortified when it is first suggested and really have to be persuaded.

    And they don't just do food - nappies, toiletries etc are all provided.

    In my view their growth is the inevitable outcome of the insane pace of change within the DWP, quite simply the bureaucracy cannot cope, particularly as so many experienced staff have been "let go".

    Also the massive increase in "sanctioning" since 22 October 2011 means that many claimants have effectively been left with nothing, at all.

    Really looking forward to introduction of PIP as that is also bound to go wrong.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Financier said:

    Henry M.

    Thank you for an unusual topic. Do you know the statistical source used by LFF for their chart?

    Any attempt at using the graph as a sign of increasing poverty rates is either data-illiterate or partisan.
    I think the graph was created on the back of a paper napkin in the Soho Patisserie Valerie by Roger and Robert.

    It certainly has similar characteristics to the OBR March deficit reduction forecasts.

    I am convinced the inspiration is walking down Berwick Street after the vegetable market has finished and misidentifying the empty cardboard boxes as a Thatcherite city,

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Charles

    Absolutely.

    It was introduced at thruppence in the pound (when there were presumably 240 pence to a pound).

    In other words, a rate of just over one per cent - as vast wealth was cascading in from the colonies and Britain was the workshop of the world...

    With rates like that, who needs accountants.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    ;^ )

    Jack Tindale @JackTindale
    For obvious reasons, we must put Harold Wilson on the pound coin.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Food banks are a disgrace to the nation, and the Government should be utterly ashamed of themselves for causing their rise.

    Particularly when you contrast the plight of those forced to use them with Cameron and Osborne's attitude and largesse towards the richest and most powerful in society, millionaires, bankers and so on.

    Though like Henry, I'm glad they exist, otherwise those thrown on the scrap heap by this Government would be helpless.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2013
    We have had almost 3 weeks where the Labour debate has gone from Labour supporting writers bemoaning the lack of Ed Milliband's policies (Rentoul, Rawnsley, Riddell, Watt, Hodge etc etc), (and then Thatcher's death) through to the Blairites advice against Ed Milliband's turning left and then seeing Ed cosy up to "Gorgeous george" and then fall out of love when the secret affair gets publicity and Ed getting advice to ditch the Blairites from his biggest paymaster added to complaints inside Labour about Unions manipulating MEP selections .... and a small drop in Labour's lead in the polls.

    So the focus of our resident Labour supporting writer Mr Manson this week is this piece on foodbanks.... Shurelyshome mishtake. But lets not mention any of Labour's problems eh Mr Manson? Almost a "lets not mention the war" moment?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    tim said:

    Anorak said:

    tim said:

    much of the problem for the Tories with this issue is that Cameron and his gilded circle know how vulnerable they are when responding to issues such as this.

    Good job the opposition front bench is staffed by ex-comprehensive school pupils. No wealthy, elite Oxbridge PPE students there, no siree.
    You can seem from Cameron's response to Benyons comments how unnerved he is though.
    He knows he's got a big issue because he's seen the polling, hence is buttock clenched response that some perfectly sensible advice "doesn't look good" because it comes from someone on the Sunday Times rich list.

    Thats the issue with Cameron, he promotes from a tiny gilded circle yet also desperately wants to be seen as normal -hence the Luis Suarez "As a dad" comments, inventing X Factor stories involving his children, dreaming up imaginary pasties from imaginary pasty shops, declaring his love for Sky plus and darts, making Samantha sit in Ryanair departure lounges.

    He's like a white London teenager working on his West Indian patois while dreaming of Bexleyheath

    Expect a lot of lingering on Ed and Co's privileged background during the run up to the election. Nothing overt, but I think the mileage in the "toffs and fops" meme is limited, and has the potential to backfire. It's already happening on the other side of La Manche.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited April 2013
    I don't think it's just lower levels of benefits causing the use of food banks. I suspect a large part of it is the sudden adjustment people are having to make, having previously had pretty generous benefits. As has been examined in various places, the new levels of benefits are tough, but livable on, with careful planning. Part of the problem is that a great number of people have been brought up without ever having to adopt careful planning, due to a combination of government largesse and consumer credit. It's the sudden change that's the shock.

    EDIT: One additional point. I also think that people getting their food from food banks will be appreciative that other people are donating it to them, and try not to take the piss, whereas when it comes from government, people think it's coming from some bottomless pit.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    carl said:

    Particularly when you contrast the plight of those forced to use them with Cameron and Osborne's attitude and largesse towards the richest and most powerful in society, millionaires, bankers and so on..

    You mean like the higher tax rates, reduced benefits and tougher action on tax avoidance than existed under New Labour?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Very interesting topic, Mr. Manson.

    I wonder how much of the rise is simply due to a combination of the charity getting bigger and to the increasing publicity food banks have recently got (Labour love banging on about them). They've increased the number of people using them by around 50% or more every single year.

    It's also worth mentioning that when people know there's effectively free food, more people will ask for it. Times are difficult, but even from 2005/6 to 2006/7 (the last 'good' years) the numbers (in terms of percentage) being served still rose significantly.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546
    carl said:

    Food banks are a disgrace to the nation, and the Government should be utterly ashamed of themselves for causing their rise.

    Particularly when you contrast the plight of those forced to use them with Cameron and Osborne's attitude and largesse towards the richest and most powerful in society, millionaires, bankers and so on.

    Though like Henry, I'm glad they exist, otherwise those thrown on the scrap heap by this Government would be helpless.

    "Particularly when you contrast the plight of those forced to use them with Cameron and Osborne's attitude and largesse towards the richest and most powerful in society, millionaires, bankers and so on."

    You mean by making them pay more tax than they did for the vast majority of the time under Labour? Remind me what the top-rate of income tax was from 1997 to 2010, and what is it now?

    Leaving aside income tax, ISTR (and I daresay someone will come along with the figures) that when you take the tax take as a whole, the top income strata are paying more both in monetary terms and as a percentage than they were under Labour.

    You can argue that not enough is being done for those in need, and I have not a little sympathy for that view. But to point at a tax rate that was at 40% for the majority of time under Labour, and saying that at 45% now it is too low, is not being wholly truthful.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If Scotland were to leave the UK, would pb Tories want Adam Smith taken off the £20 note?
  • Very interesting thread piece, Henry.

    Like you, I'm unsure how I feel about this. Unlike you, I know very little about the subject, and would like to know more.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Some of these are brilliant - I'd buy one

    "An unusual auction is coming up next month with a change to acquire some rather unique — and based on the estimate prices — curiously cheap bits of London memorabilia.

    Westminster City Council and Transport for London are upgrading all of their signposting in the Capital as part of the Legible’ London campaign… and are flogging off the family silver the old signs they are taking down.

    Some of them are frankly about as obscure as it is possible to get — who’s even heard of the Planning Inquiry Chamber? Hardly anyone, which is why the estimate is just £10-£20 for the sign."

    http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2013/04/26/westminster-council-is-selling-off-its-street-signs/
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @antifrank - I think we'd welcome him as a political refugee.
  • If 10,000 families visited a foodbank once a week for a year then would this Trust record it as 500,000 visits? If said families get 3 days food every 3 days then that would equate to over 1.2 million visits. So is it really 3,000 families a week? Out of circa 30 million? Or if its really people and not families, then we may be talking about 3,000 people a week out of >60,000,000?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited April 2013
    antifrank said:

    If Scotland were to leave the UK, would pb Tories want Adam Smith taken off the £20 note?

    Given than Edinburgh has a statue of the Duke of Wellington, I don't see why we should.
  • antifrank said:

    If Scotland were to leave the UK, would pb Tories want Adam Smith taken off the £20 note?

    No.

    I'm also wanting David Tennant on some notes as well.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    @Avery

    "I think the graph was created on the back of a paper napkin in the Soho Patisserie Valerie by Roger and Robert."

    As I intimated despite teaching him everything he knows I think he's gone native. The graph looks too well executed.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Anorak

    'Expect a lot of lingering on Ed and Co's privileged background during the run up to the election. Nothing overt, but I think the mileage in the "toffs and fops" meme is limited,'

    I'm hoping we can get some tips on the best IHT avoidance trusts and how to cope with a £400,000 mortgage.
  • I've had a thought on Scottish independence.

    Should rump/Carry on UK have a referendum on whether they'd like to be part of a currency union with an Independent Scotland?

    Think of the PB threads and betting opportunities.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    I've had a thought on Scottish independence.

    Should rump/Carry on UK have a referendum on whether they'd like to be part of a currency union with an Independent Scotland?

    Think of the PB threads and betting opportunities.

    Osborne hinted we might......

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    tim said:

    @antifrank/RichardNabavi

    Given Adam Smiths's position on inheritance

    Adam Smith supported a tax on wealth inherited by children ‘who have got families of their own, and are supported by funds separate and independent of their father’.

    I'm surprised that Osborne hasn't taken him off the notes already.

    You know it is okay to not agree with 100% of what someone thinks, and still consider them to be a great person?
  • I've had a thought on Scottish independence.

    Should rump/Carry on UK have a referendum on whether they'd like to be part of a currency union with an Independent Scotland?

    Think of the PB threads and betting opportunities.

    Osborne hinted we might......

    Bring it on.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2013
    Looks like some in Hollande's party have fallen out of love with Frau Merkel:

    http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2013/04/26/le-ps-denonce-l-intransigeance-egoiste-de-la-chanceliere-merkel_3167068_823448.html

    Edit - even they go on about Thatcher......
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    With just under a week to go till the biggest electoral test of public opinion this year at the locals, here's a report from the South Shields byelection on the ground campaign which might be of interest to those who were betting on the percentage outcome.
    Guardian politics ‏@GdnPolitics 2h

    South Shields voters give Ukip the time of day – but don't tell the neighbours http://bit.ly/Zz5Ji7
    IIRC Mike had a punt at 30-40% for UKIP and Paddy Power had a value bet on above 18% for UKIP.

    I don't know if the odds are as favourable now.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Good news for E. Miliband: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22307221

    Galloway no longer likes him.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    @antifrank/RichardNabavi

    Given Adam Smiths's position on inheritance

    Adam Smith supported a tax on wealth inherited by children ‘who have got families of their own, and are supported by funds separate and independent of their father’.

    I'm surprised that Osborne hasn't taken him off the notes already.

    tim

    How ironic that you are criticising the application of inherited wealth on a thread about food banks.

    Surely you are aware that the vast majority of food banks in the UK are adminstered by the Trussell Trust.

    Perhaps you should also be aware of the basis on which the Trussell Trust was founded:

    Carol and Paddy Henderson founded The Trussell Trust in 1997 based on a legacy left by Carol’s mother, Betty Trussell. Moved to help forgotten people, The Trussell Trust’s initial Bulgaria projects focussed on improving conditions for the 60+ children sleeping at Central Railway Station in Bulgaria. The Trust’s work soon expanded not only in Bulgaria, but in the UK too..

    Founded from inherited wealth with operations which migrated from Bulgaria! Enough to turn a leftie bipolar.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    edited April 2013
    @Rob "Unbelievable. So this had nothing at all to do with the downturn over which the Labour party presided."

    None whatsoever. Just Tory priorities. Obviously another poster too young to remember the nightmare that was Thatcherism. Benefits get taken away the unfortunates get intimidated and it's either starve or be humiliated at food banks.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    Ed's new chum George has changed his mind.

    '“Miliband’s claim that he repeatedly pursued me for a one hour meeting about “boundary changes” is, quite simply, a lie. I realise now that I showed poor judgement in finally agreeing to meet Miliband. An unprincipled coward with the backbone of an amoeba.”
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    As a matter of policy the government should rank food banks.

    It's a tricky one but on balance I think Eric Pickles just edges it over Nicholas Soames
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    I've had a thought on Scottish independence.

    Is it as good as your tip that Blair could be in the vanguard for the No campaign?

    Bring it on. :)

  • pinball13pinball13 Posts: 83
    @TCPoliticalBetting
    Food banks are only supposed to provide help in a crisis, not in the longer term.
  • @Roger:

    "I did a commercial recently for which we effectively bought up an entire market "

    Were they shitakes?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    Lib dem candidate in South Shields byelection just comparing it to North Korea.

    He sounds confident.

    LOL
  • MBoyMBoy Posts: 104
    edited April 2013
    Food banks are a self-fulfilling cause. The chattering Left thinks things are so terrible "it's like the depression", and that food banks are needed (they love this). So food banks are set up. Then people unsurprisingly go to food banks for free food. Then people say "gosh there are a lot of people here, we need more food banks". Then food banks are in the news, and so more people hear there's free food to be had at them. So more go. And more banks are set up, etc.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    Given Labour is still getting the blame for our economic plight, presmuably Labour is being blamed for people needing food banks?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    @Gilbert-

    "Were they shitakes?"

    Most of my takes are shit.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013


    Founded from inherited wealth with operations which migrated from Bulgaria!

    You and the other PBtories should bang on about Bulgaria and the EU more, Seth O Logue.

    I can't see how that will be a problem for the tories at the locals.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    JackW said:


    It's a tricky one but on balance I think Eric Pickles just edges it over Nicholas Soames

    Surely Nicholas would win by a key length, Jack W?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    john_zims said:

    Ed's new chum George has changed his mind.

    '“Miliband’s claim that he repeatedly pursued me for a one hour meeting about “boundary changes” is, quite simply, a lie. I realise now that I showed poor judgement in finally agreeing to meet Miliband. An unprincipled coward with the backbone of an amoeba.”

    LOL! Well that truce between The Gorgeous One and Red didn't last long did it? :^O

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Liam Fox takes to his oija board to bring us the latest hot info on tory/UKIP splits.
    Chorley Bloke ‏@Chorley_Bloke 2m

    Thatcher would be 'appalled' by Tories who defect to UKIP, close ally Liam Fox warns as row over Iron Lady's l... http://bit.ly/11Zz3dM
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    @Avery.

    I'm al in favour of people giving their money to charity rather than destroying the incentives of the next generation an cluttering up society with a hapless class of trustafarians exporting wealth to the Colombian drug cartels.

    Why capitalists should like estate taxes
    From Adam Smith to Thomas Jefferson, lovers of freedom have demanded that social privilege be earned -- not inherited.


    http://www.salon.com/2001/02/15/estate_tax_2/

    I wonder how cloud borne Thomas Jefferson will be feeling about the prospects of Hillary Clinton inheriting the social privilege of the US Presidency. I guess he'll turn a blind eye on the basis that a bird by hand is worth more than two from the bush.
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @Mr_Eugenides: Galloway vs Miliband: the unspeakable in pursuit of the unelectable.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Neil said:

    JackW said:


    It's a tricky one but on balance I think Eric Pickles just edges it over Nicholas Soames

    Surely Nicholas would win by a key length, Jack W?
    I'm advised that Nick Soames has shed a few pounds and now reqiures a new wardrobe .... er so to speak !!

  • samsam Posts: 727
    Lefties like the one here on the Guardian comments really dont get that WWC labour voters are attracted to UKIP becuase of this type of attitude, not turned off them...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/26/south-shields-voters-ukip?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    MrsAwesome

    26 April 2013 2:27pm
    Recommend
    20

    @kirkstall - Libertarian? AAAHAAHAHAHA are you still swallowing that old canard? UKIP is about as libertarian as pol pot!

    The "libertarian" UKIP favours:
    - banning gay marriage
    - banning burqas
    - doubling defence spending
    - shutting down borders
    - building more and more prisons
    - hang 'em and flog 'em sentencing
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    GIN1138 said:

    LOL! Well that truce between The Gorgeous One and Red didn't last long did it? :^O

    Nope. But little Ed better find some way to hang on to disaffected labour voters because it's going to matter. Whatever you think of Galloway he is still responsible for the biggest by-election shock result in years. Little Ed is having more than a bit of trouble keeping hold of the kind of voters Galloway and UKIP are can cream off. It's not just the tories who are dealing with 'a plague on all your houses' voting.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Wait - free food outlet gets more popular shock ?

    I wonder what would happen if they started a chain of free booze and fags ??

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    @Neil

    Looking at Southwark Cllrs (and it's all Dora's fault), I noted that Peter John lists under "State the nature of any employment / self employment or business (including any trade or profession) carried out by you or your partner":


    Self-employed Barrister
    Self-employed Hairdresser

    is he a barrister or the partner an hairdresser? or is he a hairdressing barrister?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    "benefit delay" = brought forward night in pub to earlier than day before benefits paid.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @JackW

    If he gets a key extension to go with his diet he'll have the ladies swooning ;)
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Andrea

    "is he a barrister or the partner an hairdresser? or is he a hairdressing barrister?"

    He needs to powder his barristers wig ?!?
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    Mick_Pork said:

    GIN1138 said:

    LOL! Well that truce between The Gorgeous One and Red didn't last long did it? :^O

    Nope. But little Ed better find some way to hang on to disaffected labour voters because it's going to matter.

    yes, it can be problematic with the Muslim voters in Dewsbury who are not happy with the AWS. And maby Burnley too (because I don't know their feelings towards the AWS there).

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    @sam

    Regardless of that Farage should be looking at more policies to appeal to disaffected lib dems and labour. That's just common sense if he wants to fully harness the protest vote. He has very little problem getting disenchanted tory voters so finding some kind of positive economic break for those other voters would be a wise priority.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    @roger

    You have indicted that you are a pretty wealthy chap, second home in France and all that, jetset lifestyle etc, if you are so concerned , you could flog your second home and give the money to the foodbanks.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Another superb article, Henry. Charity is always preferable to starvation, but yes, food banks are a terrible indictment of the UK's prevailing right-of-centre political culture. The state should be providing for people who, through no fault of their own, can't make ends meet.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If guilt ridden horribly white middle class types want to ease their conscience by giving tins of Waitrose fois gras to foodbanks rather than vote LD then I'm all for them.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Andrea

    I dont know where I (obviously wrongly) picked this up but I always thought that his partner was a prominent newspaper columnist.

    A hairdresser is obviously more useful.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013
    Reassuring to see that the soon-to-be Labour MP Ms Lewell-Buck is already well versed in the necessary skills of lying and smearing; she'll go far:

    If voters tell her they are toying with Ukip, she has some attack lines ready. "Often people don't actually know too much about them, so I tell them that Nigel Farage has spoken out in favour of decriminalising crack cocaine and heroin and prostitution, and that if we were to come out of Europe, 3,000 jobs would go in the area," said Lewell-Buck

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/26/south-shields-voters-ukip?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    @Avery


    I've got an idea based on Osbornes housing policy to solve the food bank problem.

    How about he gives the food banks a big taxpayer subsidy as long as they only give food to people who have lots of money already or plan to sell it on at a profit.
    Thus the free market, and food price inflation will solve the food problem.

    tim

    I prefer Labour's plans to lend rather than give food to the needy.

    It is an idea based on Gordon's fiscal policy.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Mick_Pork said:


    Founded from inherited wealth with operations which migrated from Bulgaria!

    You and the other PBtories should bang on about Bulgaria and the EU more, Seth O Logue.

    I can't see how that will be a problem for the tories at the locals.

    Pork arrives at the PB foodbank.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Reassuring to see that the soon-to-be Labour MP Ms Lewell-Buck is already well versed in the necessary skills of lying and smearing; she'll go far:

    If voters tell her they are toying with Ukip, she has some attack lines ready. "Often people don't actually know too much about them, so I tell them that Nigel Farage has spoken out in favour of decriminalising crack cocaine and heroin and prostitution, and that if we were to come out of Europe, 3,000 jobs would go in the area," said Lewell-Buck

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/26/south-shields-voters-ukip?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    The growing Ukip v Labour war is going to be jolly entertaining - like Nuts magazine vs The New Statesman :)

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    @Neil

    Looking at Southwark Cllrs (and it's all Dora's fault), I noted that Peter John lists under "State the nature of any employment / self employment or business (including any trade or profession) carried out by you or your partner":


    Self-employed Barrister
    Self-employed Hairdresser

    is he a barrister or the partner an hairdresser? or is he a hairdressing barrister?

    It is a printing error, Andrea.

    Only central bankers give haircuts.

This discussion has been closed.