This Mandelson photo is ludicrous stuff. There are photos of Jimmy Savile with all and sundry of the great and good. That's what manipulative paedophiles do. Ingratiate themselves with folk of influence.
French scientists detect ANOTHER variant linked to travel to Cameroon and say it carries 46 mutations that may make it more vaccine-resistant and infectious (but it is so far NOT outcompeting Omicron)
French scientists detect ANOTHER variant linked to travel to Cameroon and say it carries 46 mutations that may make it more vaccine-resistant and infectious (but it is so far NOT outcompeting Omicron)
I could not care less. Post vaccination we are now in a clear ideological divide of statist leftwingers who want to impose Covid restrictions forever and rightwingers and libertarians who want us to largely live our lives freely again.
Boris has correctly positioned himself on the right side of that divide to motivate his base
Many more Conservative MPs supported the move to introduce covid certification for entry to nightclubs and large venues than opposed it yet all we hear are the "96 rebels". The last I saw, there are 364 Conservative MPs so the 96 represent a minority viewpoint it would seem.
All Liberal Democrats who voted opposed the measure so in effect if you want an end to restrictions and a return to a normal life you should leave the Conservative Party and join the Liberal Democrats.
There is a difference between vaxports to impose restrictions on the unvaccinated, who make up most of those in hospital with Covid and imposing restrictions again on the vaccinated majority. I have no problem with the former, I do have a problem with the latter
Classic bully
Line up with the majority and beat up the rest
No, beating up the rest would be mandatory vaccination and forcibly holding down the unvaccinated and jabbing them
“I have no problem with [imposing restrictions on the unvaccinated]”
Lock up anyone that disagrees with me!
If by their choice they are now taking the majority of hospital beds as a result of Covid they must be the ones to face any new restrictions. Not the vaccinated
again that is good in theory but could be very racially divisive....i dont think we want racial divisions in this country
Sorry, I don’t give a shit if it’s racially divisive. I don’t know what more can be done to persuade people to be jabbed. It’s totally free, effective, safe, taken up by over 90 % of adults already, including most of ethnic extraction. The vast majority who have done what was asked and protected themselves should not be restricted for the benefit of the idiots, even those with ‘genuine’ concerns. Get of Facebook, get of Twitter and look into the real world data.
your sentiment may be good in theory...but i dont think its wise to inflame tensions in the ethnic communities....these are good people just like you
Exactly how is it inflaming tensions when the majority of ethnic populations have taken the vaccine?
because a significantly lower proportion of our ethnic communities have taken the vaccine...hence the discrimination...its quite simple
I’m a bit thick, how is it discrimination if people choose not to have a free vaccine and then suffer the consquences?
because you fail to take account of the history especially of the black community with regards to vaccines and the reasons for their suspicions....try and be more considerate to these communities and please dont other them
I have no idea what othering is. I understand people have had concerns about the vaccines. @TOPPING of this parish, and @Dura_Ace, are two who have expressed concerns. But after more than a year, with 40 million people vaccinated in the U.K., with very few negative incidents, certainly compared with the 150K or so who have died of covid, and the proven efficacy, there are no excuses left. I believe in community, but all have to play their part. I don’t want to forcebably vaccinate people, but if restrictions have to be imposed then those who have chosen not to do the right thing should be the first ones to have curtails on what they can do imposed. If that is vaccine passports then so be it.
To view or treat a person or group of people as intrinsically different to yourself
I am deeply uncomfortable with a small segment of society who have decided not to take an optimal medical treatment being identified as primarily to blame for the fact that successive government undervalued resiliency in the health (and other strategic) systems
How is that what is happening? Aren't people arguing on a basis of 'freedom to face consequences for their own actions' kind of thing?
Can't say I agree with all suggestions on this one, I'm unsure of the approach which does the least harm, but it does appear to me there is overcaution in respect of responding to people who, even now, refuse vaccination. Given the societal impacts there are many things short of forcing people that could be done to strongly encourage.
Given the things people whinge is an attempt to force them to do things (as has been pointed out your own solution would likely be decried as no different), some harsh encouragement at this point may as well be done.
They are looking to exclude a group from the full benefits of being citizens.
A drink driver is breaking the law and can be prosecuted for it.
If vaxports become the law beyond just nightclubs those institutions would be breaking the law by allowing the unvaccinated entry. Those who have refused to get vaccinated and get boosters are free to do so but not then increase their risk of hospitalisation by going to large or crowded events, then taking hospital beds and treatment from vaccinated cancer patients etc who really need them
French scientists detect ANOTHER variant linked to travel to Cameroon and say it carries 46 mutations that may make it more vaccine-resistant and infectious (but it is so far NOT outcompeting Omicron)
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
Is it just my twitter feed, but it seems since the new year i get shown a lot more of accounts i don't follow or interact with but twitter says you are being shown this because "they are followed by .... who you follow".
I am now being bombarded with Bad Al and the annoying fox killing lawyer tweets.
I could not care less. Post vaccination we are now in a clear ideological divide of statist leftwingers who want to impose Covid restrictions forever and rightwingers and libertarians who want us to largely live our lives freely again.
Boris has correctly positioned himself on the right side of that divide to motivate his base
Many more Conservative MPs supported the move to introduce covid certification for entry to nightclubs and large venues than opposed it yet all we hear are the "96 rebels". The last I saw, there are 364 Conservative MPs so the 96 represent a minority viewpoint it would seem.
All Liberal Democrats who voted opposed the measure so in effect if you want an end to restrictions and a return to a normal life you should leave the Conservative Party and join the Liberal Democrats.
There is a difference between vaxports to impose restrictions on the unvaccinated, who make up most of those in hospital with Covid and imposing restrictions again on the vaccinated majority. I have no problem with the former, I do have a problem with the latter
Classic bully
Line up with the majority and beat up the rest
No, beating up the rest would be mandatory vaccination and forcibly holding down the unvaccinated and jabbing them
“I have no problem with [imposing restrictions on the unvaccinated]”
Lock up anyone that disagrees with me!
If by their choice they are now taking the majority of hospital beds as a result of Covid they must be the ones to face any new restrictions. Not the vaccinated
again that is good in theory but could be very racially divisive....i dont think we want racial divisions in this country
Sorry, I don’t give a shit if it’s racially divisive. I don’t know what more can be done to persuade people to be jabbed. It’s totally free, effective, safe, taken up by over 90 % of adults already, including most of ethnic extraction. The vast majority who have done what was asked and protected themselves should not be restricted for the benefit of the idiots, even those with ‘genuine’ concerns. Get of Facebook, get of Twitter and look into the real world data.
The government exists to serve the people, not to say “you lot over there can go f*ck yourselves”.
If you want to charge them more then do so, but don’t other them
But if you accept charging some people more than you charge others, are you not othering the others?
No because a person’s taxes are private between them and the government
Huh? I mean that’s a wierd response. By your definition they are being treated differently, just not in public.
Othering is all about public segregation and differentiation
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Is it just my twitter feed, but it seems since the new year i get shown a lot more of accounts i don't follow or interact with but twitter says you are being shown this because "they are followed by .... who you follow".
I am now being bombarded with Bad Al and the annoying fox killing lawyer tweets.
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
We have dozens of photos of Donald Trump with Epstein and Ghislane. Ditto Bill Gates, Bill Clinton. And let's not even start with Alan Dershowitz.
Google images has a single photo of Epstein and Mandelson together. And by together, I mean "in the same shop". There are no photos that a cursory Google image search finds of Mandelson and Maxwell.
You are making some fairly wild accusations off incredibly sparse evidence.
To be fair to both @RochdalePioneers and @bigjohnowls, it is likely that BJO's suggestions PM and Epstein were close friends is not correct but also that Rochdale's claim that BJO was raising the issue just because PM was Jewish is also likely wrong.
Also, I wouldn't place too much faith in there being only one photo of PM and Epstein. Knowing what we do about Epstein, I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have tried to lure PM in some way nor that PM is smart enough to know that sometimes it is best not to be photographed with certain people (especially given what happened to PM in the past).
My view - fwiw - is that there may be dodgy photos of PM. But if there are, they won't be with someone who hosted parties with underage girls.
Not unless his tastes have changed.
Although, that does raise an interesting question. If Epstein's aim in this was to blackmail powerful people, then why would he restrict his activities to girls? The obvious answer is that he was focused on his own pleasure and, if others used them, then that would be an additional benefit if they could be blackmailed. Still, might be worth asking.
I think there will be a parallel Epstein, whose tastes run differently. We just don't know who that is yet.
Those who hang out and sleep with young girls, probably like to spend time with other people who do similarly. And I suspect this is also true of those whose interests lie in the other direction.
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
Well that's RP told then. Luckyguy pronounces.
Meh. Remember that Jezbollah constantly mispronounced "Jeffrey Epschtein" to heighten the Jewish element. I see anti-semitism in the hard left because the hard left is riddled with anti-semitism. I am happy to apologise openly to BJO and move on - as I did - to wtaf he meant by trying to associate the noble Lord with a paedophile.
Again, look at the context. Mandy says Labour is ready to be associated with the word government. BJO can't stand that idea so go after the messenger. "Team Epstein" FFS. Pronounced how Epstein pronounces it? Or how Corbyn does...?
Is it just my twitter feed, but it seems since the new year i get shown a lot more of accounts i don't follow or interact with but twitter says you are being shown this because "they are followed by .... who you follow".
I am now being bombarded with Bad Al and the annoying fox killing lawyer tweets.
Not sure I follow?
I don't follow a lot of people e.g. Bad Al, because I know exactly what he will be tweeting all day. However, since the new year, i seem to be having my timeline filled with tweets from these people, with Twitter leaving a note saying "somebody i do follow, follows them". Not retweeted or liked the tweet, just the fact they follow them, twitter has decided i need to seem these tweets.
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
You're not allowed in a nightclub if you are unjabbed. You are not allowed to hire a car if you are completely pissed
Either way, it depends on substances you have voluntarily injected, or rejected- substances which society deems dangerous, in their presence or absence, in certain circumstances (and with the overwhelming backing of science)
I fail to see any major difference. No jab, no club; completely pissed, no car
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
The quality of darts is such much higher than the "good ol days".....
Wider trebles and doubles, according to the BDO diehards. Tin hat stuff.
Delighted Snakebite won. He’s been consistently the best this tournament and had some belting matches.
It’s a great sport. I love the prominence the greatest show on earth gets this time of year. Still, it’s Q school next then the premier league.
Just a little disappointed at some of the booing of the Scots and welsh players.
Is BDO still a thing?
No, there is a new organisation which cancelled their world tournament due at lakeside this year due to Covid. Nothing at all to do with pitiful ticket sales. Oh no.
However darts forums and Facebook groups still have Many old BDO diehards who still go on about ‘family’
The BDO was in terminal decline for many years. They should have merged with the PDC when they had the chance and looked after the amateur game.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
Yet no proof he did break the rules. Unless they have demonstrated that the cameraman was at the same distance for 15 minutes. It's story because it's easy to claim and utterly impossible to prove wrong.
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
RPs first response to me was completely unacceptable.
Its not the first time he has tried to accuse me of saying something about someone because they are Jewish.
I have had enough and will now take the matter further.
Rishi Sunak drifting in both Next PM market and Next Con Leader market. Why? Night of the Long Knives in the offing?
Because of the topic of the header. Conservative poll recovery => no leadership contest this year, and Sunak's best chance is seen as being if there is a contest soon.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Yet no proof he did break the rules. Unless they have demonstrated that the cameraman was at the same distance for 15 minutes. It's story because it's easy to claim and utterly impossible to prove wrong.
Given the choice of believing an unnamed Daily Mirror source or a Downing Street spokesperson, I will go with the former.
Rishi Sunak drifting in both Next PM market and Next Con Leader market. Why? Night of the Long Knives in the offing?
Because of the topic of the header. Conservative poll recovery => no leadership contest this year, and Sunak's best chance is seen as being if there is a contest soon.
Two other factors, one clear and one speculative.
The clear one is the polling showing a small polling boost for Rishi-Conservatives. Real, but not transformative. If the Conservatives have a popularity problem, Rishi isn't a big enough solution.
The other speculative bit is... the sense that Dishy Rishi is also Sneaky Sunak. Whether it's accurate or not, there's the impression that all these leaks (the garden meeting photo, the Truss trade meeting) don't not have his fingerprints on them. If he tries too hard and too ruthlessly, he won't get the gig.
Yet no proof he did break the rules. Unless they have demonstrated that the cameraman was at the same distance for 15 minutes. It's story because it's easy to claim and utterly impossible to prove wrong.
Given the choice of believing an unnamed Daily Mirror source or a Downing Street spokesperson, I will go with the former.
Utter gibberish, smearing a great scientist, and the author does not even understand basic science
Yet is rather worryingly an academic.....who the scientific american think is worthy of publishing an opinion piece.
The article is much discussed on Twitter
The verdict is, this may be the end of "Scientific" American?
An astonishingly stupid column, written by a woman with no basic command of the facts. Trashing a brilliant scientist. I get that E O "Sociobiology" Wilson is not everyone's cup of tea, you can't adduce huge evidence that creatures order themselves according to evolutionary principles, which impact mentality, sociology and behaviour as much as physiology, without annoying the majorly religious or the insanely lefty, but usually the objections need scientific evidence, to be sustained in a major scientific journal
Here there is no evidence. It is Woke opinion which is offended
People who view the world in this way, it must be incredibly tiring in which you are seeing absolutely everything ever as racist discrimination.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Rishi Sunak drifting in both Next PM market and Next Con Leader market. Why? Night of the Long Knives in the offing?
Because of the topic of the header. Conservative poll recovery => no leadership contest this year, and Sunak's best chance is seen as being if there is a contest soon.
Two other factors, one clear and one speculative.
The clear one is the polling showing a small polling boost for Rishi-Conservatives. Real, but not transformative. If the Conservatives have a popularity problem, Rishi isn't a big enough solution.
The other speculative bit is... the sense that Dishy Rishi is also Sneaky Sunak. Whether it's accurate or not, there's the impression that all these leaks (the garden meeting photo, the Truss trade meeting) don't not have his fingerprints on them. If he tries too hard and too ruthlessly, he won't get the gig.
The polling boost was Sunak cut the Labour lead to 3%. Boris has already cut the Labour lead in the latest poll to 3% anyway.
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
RPs first response to me was completely unacceptable.
Its not the first time he has tried to accuse me of saying something about someone because they are Jewish.
I have had enough and will now take the matter further.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/LD and even Con/LD/DUP would still have less seats than Labour/SNP on this poll but not less votes. Although the Conservatives would still be narrowly largest party on seats
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con too poisonous now. Lib Dems learnt their lesson.
Rishi Sunak drifting in both Next PM market and Next Con Leader market. Why? Night of the Long Knives in the offing?
Because of the topic of the header. Conservative poll recovery => no leadership contest this year, and Sunak's best chance is seen as being if there is a contest soon.
Two other factors, one clear and one speculative.
The clear one is the polling showing a small polling boost for Rishi-Conservatives. Real, but not transformative. If the Conservatives have a popularity problem, Rishi isn't a big enough solution.
The other speculative bit is... the sense that Dishy Rishi is also Sneaky Sunak. Whether it's accurate or not, there's the impression that all these leaks (the garden meeting photo, the Truss trade meeting) don't not have his fingerprints on them. If he tries too hard and too ruthlessly, he won't get the gig.
The polling boost was Sunak cut the Labour lead to 3%. Boris has already cut the Labour lead in the latest poll to 3% anyway.
Sunak is the Tory David Miliband
Who is Tory James Purnell? Walking out of Cabinet expecting Sunak to follow and trigger leadership election?
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con too poisonous now. Lib Dems learnt their lesson.
That presumes that Labour would be less so. Merkel and Disraeli were both right about coalitions...
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/SNP. Wouldn't put it past them.
I would prefer a Grand Coalition with Starmer Labour German style than any deal with the SNP
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/LD and even Con/LD/DUP would still have less seats than Labour/SNP on this poll but not less votes. Although the Conservatives would still be narrowly largest party on seats
Yes that's true - I was speculating more generally about a hung Parliament in which many options lead to a possible government.
I suppose a grand coalition on the German model is unthinkable.
Maybe a new election within a few months is the likeliest? Boris stays in No 10 because no alternatives are possible, there is a VoNC, then another election?
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
RPs first response to me was completely unacceptable.
Its not the first time he has tried to accuse me of saying something about someone because they are Jewish.
I have had enough and will now take the matter further.
I've already apologised.
"Well I am happy to apologise openly to BJO and move on" would indeed have been an acceptable apology.
Your actual one below not so much, your obsession needs to stop
Meh. Remember that Jezbollah constantly mispronounced "Jeffrey Epschtein" to heighten the Jewish element. I see anti-semitism in the hard left because the hard left is riddled with anti-semitism. I am happy to apologise openly to BJO and move on - as I did - to wtaf he meant by trying to associate the noble Lord with a paedophile.
Again, look at the context. Mandy says Labour is ready to be associated with the word government. BJO can't stand that idea so go after the messenger. "Team Epstein" FFS. Pronounced how Epstein pronounces it? Or how Corbyn does...?
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/LD and even Con/LD/DUP would still have less seats than Labour/SNP on this poll but not less votes. Although the Conservatives would still be narrowly largest party on seats
Yes that's true - I was speculating more generally about a hung Parliament in which many options lead to a possible government.
I suppose a grand coalition on the German model is unthinkable.
Maybe a new election within a few months is the likeliest? Boris stays in No 10 because no alternatives are possible, there is a VoNC, then another election?
How could Boris credibly do that having lost the election? Surely he'd need to be replaced?
Rishi Sunak drifting in both Next PM market and Next Con Leader market. Why? Night of the Long Knives in the offing?
Because of the topic of the header. Conservative poll recovery => no leadership contest this year, and Sunak's best chance is seen as being if there is a contest soon.
Two other factors, one clear and one speculative.
The clear one is the polling showing a small polling boost for Rishi-Conservatives. Real, but not transformative. If the Conservatives have a popularity problem, Rishi isn't a big enough solution.
The other speculative bit is... the sense that Dishy Rishi is also Sneaky Sunak. Whether it's accurate or not, there's the impression that all these leaks (the garden meeting photo, the Truss trade meeting) don't not have his fingerprints on them. If he tries too hard and too ruthlessly, he won't get the gig.
The polling boost was Sunak cut the Labour lead to 3%. Boris has already cut the Labour lead in the latest poll to 3% anyway.
Sunak is the Tory David Miliband
Wasn't one of the quirks of the "hypothetical leader" polling that Conservatives (leader BoJo) did worse than Conservatives (no named leader)?
So if Boris goes away for a bit, on holiday to take a purely hypothetical example, Conservative ratings improve? (Given the horlicks he was making of things in November/December, doing nothing might have been a genuine improvement).
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
RPs first response to me was completely unacceptable.
Its not the first time he has tried to accuse me of saying something about someone because they are Jewish.
I have had enough and will now take the matter further.
I've already apologised.
"Well I am happy to apologise openly to BJO and move on" would indeed have been an acceptable apology.
Your actual one below not so much, your obsession needs to stop
Meh. Remember that Jezbollah constantly mispronounced "Jeffrey Epschtein" to heighten the Jewish element. I see anti-semitism in the hard left because the hard left is riddled with anti-semitism. I am happy to apologise openly to BJO and move on - as I did - to wtaf he meant by trying to associate the noble Lord with a paedophile.
Again, look at the context. Mandy says Labour is ready to be associated with the word government. BJO can't stand that idea so go after the messenger. "Team Epstein" FFS. Pronounced how Epstein pronounces it? Or how Corbyn does...?
I am sorry for the comment "apparently he is guilty of being Jewish" and withdraw it. I am sorry for questioning how you would pronounce "Epstein" and withdraw it.
I don't think you are an anti-semite. I do think that your "Team Epstein" comment against Peter Mandelson is outrageous as others have also addressed. If I have have gone in "like a steam train" against you I am sorry. This is a political debate forum. We all go at it sometimes, I'm happy to say sorry if it goes too far.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
A weakened SNP? How many seats are you predicting they’ll lose to the SCons, just for the record?
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/SNP. Wouldn't put it past them.
I would prefer a Grand Coalition with Starmer Labour German style than any deal with the SNP
Agreed. The Union is all-important
If it comes to it, the UK parties must do a Scotland-only Coalition which completely ignores the SNP, and then revolves power back to Westminster, so that another referendum cannot be called for 30 years
Let this be a stipulation for allowing the SNP back into power. A generation = 30 years. The next indyref will be in 2044 at the earliest, and if that is lost, then 2074. No nation can be held hostage every parliament by some renegade province
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
A weakened SNP? How many seats are you predicting they’ll lose to the SCons, just for the record?
On this poll the SCons would gain Gordon and Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock from the SNP
Labour would be insane to go into a grand coalition with the Tories. That really would destroy the union, as well any hope for a Labour recovery in Scotland.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/SNP. Wouldn't put it past them.
I would prefer a Grand Coalition with Starmer Labour German style than any deal with the SNP
Agreed. The Union is all-important
If it comes to it, the UK parties must do a Scotland-only Coalition which completely ignores the SNP, and then revolves power back to Westminster, so that another referendum cannot be called for 30 years
Let this be a stipulation for allowing the SNP back into power. A generation = 30 years. The next indyref will be in 2044 at the earliest, and if that is lost, then 2074. No nation can be held hostage every parliament by some renegade province
I cannot see how the SNP will get involved in any government in the UK - they want to leave.
I think there is a valid point that the next referendum needs to be framed in an actual "once in a generation" harness in the way that 2014 was not. Can't complain about the people of Scotland voting in record numbers to re-elect a 4th term SNP government pledged to a referendum when nothing formal stops that.
Labour would be insane to go into a grand coalition with the Tories. That really would destroy the union, as well any hope for a Labour recovery in Scotland.
The choice on this poll for Starmer is do a deal with the Tories or not but give the SNP indyref2 and devomax.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/LD and even Con/LD/DUP would still have less seats than Labour/SNP on this poll but not less votes. Although the Conservatives would still be narrowly largest party on seats
Yes that's true - I was speculating more generally about a hung Parliament in which many options lead to a possible government.
I suppose a grand coalition on the German model is unthinkable.
Maybe a new election within a few months is the likeliest? Boris stays in No 10 because no alternatives are possible, there is a VoNC, then another election?
How could Boris credibly do that having lost the election? Surely he'd need to be replaced?
I think the convention is that the PM stays until an alternative commands a majority in the Commons, which was how Brown clung on as long as he did in 2010.
Labour would be insane to go into a grand coalition with the Tories. That really would destroy the union, as well any hope for a Labour recovery in Scotland.
Never ignore the PB S***** E*****s, their record speaks for itself.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/SNP. Wouldn't put it past them.
I would prefer a Grand Coalition with Starmer Labour German style than any deal with the SNP
Agreed. The Union is all-important
If it comes to it, the UK parties must do a Scotland-only Coalition which completely ignores the SNP, and then revolves power back to Westminster, so that another referendum cannot be called for 30 years
Let this be a stipulation for allowing the SNP back into power. A generation = 30 years. The next indyref will be in 2044 at the earliest, and if that is lost, then 2074. No nation can be held hostage every parliament by some renegade province
I don't think the SNP will have much influence (at least on the terms of a 2nd indy referendum) in a hung parliament unless the result is something like Lab 260-270 SNP 50 with the Lib Dems nowhere. I would be really surprised now if any referendum happens in the medium term under Sturgeon or her successor. That said I think the SNP is pretty much guaranteed 40% whatever happens now, although a chunk of that vote is soft no voters who like the SNP.
I think the SNP dictating the terms of a 2nd referendum is massively problematic TBH even if I do not agree with the Tories' ultra unionist stance I would have preferred if May had called the SNP's bluff in 2017 but we are where we are now.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/SNP. Wouldn't put it past them.
I would prefer a Grand Coalition with Starmer Labour German style than any deal with the SNP
Agreed. The Union is all-important
If it comes to it, the UK parties must do a Scotland-only Coalition which completely ignores the SNP, and then revolves power back to Westminster, so that another referendum cannot be called for 30 years
Let this be a stipulation for allowing the SNP back into power. A generation = 30 years. The next indyref will be in 2044 at the earliest, and if that is lost, then 2074. No nation can be held hostage every parliament by some renegade province
I cannot see how the SNP will get involved in any government in the UK - they want to leave.
I think there is a valid point that the next referendum needs to be framed in an actual "once in a generation" harness in the way that 2014 was not. Can't complain about the people of Scotland voting in record numbers to re-elect a 4th term SNP government pledged to a referendum when nothing formal stops that.
No. They had their vote in 2014. Enough now. They should have said YES if they wanted YES. They didn't
30 years minimum. A generation. Next vote in 2044. No other European country would tolerate this continuous, destabilising nonsense, indeed no other major country on earth
This will benefit Scots as they will look hard at the SNP, finally, and think: are they the best party to run Scotland with the very considerable autonomy we already have? Then they will likely get rid of these clearly corrupt SNP idiots. Maybe Alba will win, who knows
If the Scots don't like that, they are free to go the route of Ireland in the early 20th century, except with the knowledge that they - the Scots - were actually given a free democratic choice to leave the UK, which they decided not to choose, so let that hang on the heads of the violent
I have a strong feeling that Scots are beginning to get pretty cheesed off with Nicola and the rest of the Scottish Nazi Party*. Shutting everything down for New Year for no great purpose has, for many, been the last straw. People are also seeing how incompetent they have been.
* SNP founded in 1934, modelled on Hilter's nationalists; campaigned in WW2 for Scots not to join the 'English' army
I have a strong feeling that Scots are beginning to get pretty cheesed off with Nicola and the rest of the Scottish Nazi Party*. Shutting everything down for New Year for no great purpose has, for many, been the last straw. People are also seeing how incompetent they have been.
* SNP founded in 1934, modelled on Hilter's nationalists; campaigned in WW2 for Scots not to join the 'English' army
Saying "Scottish Nazi party" immediately discredits everything else in the post.
Utter gibberish, smearing a great scientist, and the author does not even understand basic science
Yet is rather worryingly an academic.....who the scientific american think is worthy of publishing an opinion piece.
The article is much discussed on Twitter
The verdict is, this may be the end of "Scientific" American?
An astonishingly stupid column, written by a woman with no basic command of the facts. Trashing a brilliant scientist. I get that E O "Sociobiology" Wilson is not everyone's cup of tea, you can't adduce huge evidence that creatures order themselves according to evolutionary principles, which impact mentality, sociology and behaviour as much as physiology, without annoying the majorly religious or the insanely lefty, but usually the objections need scientific evidence, to be sustained in a major scientific journal
Here there is no evidence. It is Woke opinion which is offended
People who view the world in this way, it must be incredibly tiring in which you are seeing absolutely everything ever as racist discrimination.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/SNP. Wouldn't put it past them.
I would prefer a Grand Coalition with Starmer Labour German style than any deal with the SNP
Agreed. The Union is all-important
If it comes to it, the UK parties must do a Scotland-only Coalition which completely ignores the SNP, and then revolves power back to Westminster, so that another referendum cannot be called for 30 years
Let this be a stipulation for allowing the SNP back into power. A generation = 30 years. The next indyref will be in 2044 at the earliest, and if that is lost, then 2074. No nation can be held hostage every parliament by some renegade province
I cannot see how the SNP will get involved in any government in the UK - they want to leave.
I think there is a valid point that the next referendum needs to be framed in an actual "once in a generation" harness in the way that 2014 was not. Can't complain about the people of Scotland voting in record numbers to re-elect a 4th term SNP government pledged to a referendum when nothing formal stops that.
No. They had their vote in 2014. Enough now. They should have said YES if they wanted YES. They didn't
30 years minimum. A generation. Next vote in 2044. No other European country would tolerate this continuous, destabilising nonsense, indeed no other major country on earth
This will benefit Scots as they will look hard at the SNP, finally, and think: are they the best party to run Scotland with the very considerable autonomy we already have? Then they will likely get rid of these clearly corrupt SNP idiots. Maybe Alba will win, who knows
If the Scots don't like that, they are free to go the route of Ireland in the early 20th century, except with the knowledge that they - the Scots - were actually given a free democratic choice to leave the UK, which they decided not to choose, so let that hang on the heads of the violent
Remember that I don't support the SNP and campaigned against them in May. I'm not advocating independence - I am a federalist.
But - and it's a big but - despite HYUFD endlessly saying so there was no once in a generation restriction on the referendum. And there is now a clear democratic mandate for a rerun.
Saying "no" only increases the likelihood that when it eventually happens the vote is yes...
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/SNP. Wouldn't put it past them.
I would prefer a Grand Coalition with Starmer Labour German style than any deal with the SNP
Agreed. The Union is all-important
If it comes to it, the UK parties must do a Scotland-only Coalition which completely ignores the SNP, and then revolves power back to Westminster, so that another referendum cannot be called for 30 years
Let this be a stipulation for allowing the SNP back into power. A generation = 30 years. The next indyref will be in 2044 at the earliest, and if that is lost, then 2074. No nation can be held hostage every parliament by some renegade province
I don't think the SNP will have much influence (at least on the terms of a 2nd indy referendum) in a hung parliament unless the result is something like Lab 260-270 SNP 50 with the Lib Dems nowhere. I would be really surprised now if any referendum happens in the medium term under Sturgeon or her successor. That said I think the SNP is pretty much guaranteed 40% whatever happens now, although a chunk of that vote is soft no voters who like the SNP.
I think the SNP dictating the terms of a 2nd referendum is massively problematic TBH even if I do not agree with the Tories' ultra unionist stance I would have preferred if May had called the SNP's bluff in 2017 but we are where we are now.
Lab + Lib Dem < CON, but Lab + SNP = de facto or de jure commons majority is a situation where they'd be in a position to dictate things. But that's a narrow window.
West Midlands L 48% C 33% NW L 53% C 31% Y&H L 54% C 27%
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
Which only highlights the weakness of Con vote distribution: piling up votes where you either don’t need them or can’t win, while shedding votes in the Red Wall.
No, there are plenty of seats in the South East the LDs are targeting which would stay Con on that poll. Redwall seats in the Northeast the Cons won in 2019 would also stay blue.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
While losing seats in the South West, Midlands, Yorkshire, North West and Wales. So many in fact you’d be out of government.
Yet still with most seats and with Starmer reliant on a weakened SNP to become PM
Would that actually happen in practice? Starmer might be forced to rule out deals with the SNP during an election campaign. And the SNP and Labour have always hated each other north of the border.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Con/LD and even Con/LD/DUP would still have less seats than Labour/SNP on this poll but not less votes. Although the Conservatives would still be narrowly largest party on seats
Yes that's true - I was speculating more generally about a hung Parliament in which many options lead to a possible government.
I suppose a grand coalition on the German model is unthinkable.
Maybe a new election within a few months is the likeliest? Boris stays in No 10 because no alternatives are possible, there is a VoNC, then another election?
How could Boris credibly do that having lost the election? Surely he'd need to be replaced?
I think the convention is that the PM stays until an alternative commands a majority in the Commons, which was how Brown clung on as long as he did in 2010.
Which wasn't that long. Certainly not long enough for a new election. However. My point was. The Tories would be faced with a new election with a leader who had just lost many more than 50 seats. That couldn't be credible, could it? He'd have to resign as Tory leader. Caretaker PM till the election? Sure.
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
RPs first response to me was completely unacceptable.
Its not the first time he has tried to accuse me of saying something about someone because they are Jewish.
I have had enough and will now take the matter further.
I've already apologised.
"Well I am happy to apologise openly to BJO and move on" would indeed have been an acceptable apology.
Your actual one below not so much, your obsession needs to stop
Meh. Remember that Jezbollah constantly mispronounced "Jeffrey Epschtein" to heighten the Jewish element. I see anti-semitism in the hard left because the hard left is riddled with anti-semitism. I am happy to apologise openly to BJO and move on - as I did - to wtaf he meant by trying to associate the noble Lord with a paedophile.
Again, look at the context. Mandy says Labour is ready to be associated with the word government. BJO can't stand that idea so go after the messenger. "Team Epstein" FFS. Pronounced how Epstein pronounces it? Or how Corbyn does...?
I am sorry for the comment "apparently he is guilty of being Jewish" and withdraw it. I am sorry for questioning how you would pronounce "Epstein" and withdraw it.
I don't think you are an anti-semite. I do think that your "Team Epstein" comment against Peter Mandelson is outrageous as others have also addressed. If I have have gone in "like a steam train" against you I am sorry. This is a political debate forum. We all go at it sometimes, I'm happy to say sorry if it goes too far.
Labour Friends of Epstein reckon they are ready for Government
Hmmm. I don't think anyone has ever accused Mandelson of paedophilia.
Apparently he is guilty of being Jewish. .
In your tiny little warped mind.
Petey was a close friend of Epstein nothing more as far as we no so far
I think that's stretching it: you can find a pictures of the two of them in a shop together from 2005, and it is assumed they were there together. Likewise I believe there is evidence of at least one phone call.
But that's a long way way from "close friend".
Epstein called him Petey
I assume you would also think he wasnt a close friend of Ms Maxwell?
Its deeply desperately funny. "Must stop Starmer". I know - lets try and associate them with the Epstein scandal! That will make people vote Tory and that way lies True Socialism.
You may be right about BJO's underlying motivations, but this line of posting reflects very poorly on you. Firstly you came around like a steam train with accusations that BJO was making the link based on nothing more than what you allege to be an antisemitic world view, then he discloses that there was indeed at least an acquaintance between the two men, and sadly you don't have the class to be even slightly abashed. I think an apology is merited.
RPs first response to me was completely unacceptable.
Its not the first time he has tried to accuse me of saying something about someone because they are Jewish.
I have had enough and will now take the matter further.
Whereas your libelling of Peter Mandelson was what exactly?
Comments
Yay !
West Midlands L 48% C 33%
NW L 53% C 31%
Y&H L 54% C 27%
https://twitter.com/mirrorbreaking_/status/1478125620752273408?s=21
@StuartJRitchie
·
41m
The senior author of the paper that describes this *scary new variant* (https://medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.24.21268174v1) is Didier Raoult - the highly dodgy hydroxychloroquine guy.
"They also suggested that the aide was standing just within two metres of Mr Johnson during the recording.
Under official guidance at the time, those who came within two metres, for more than 15 minutes, of somebody who later tested positive"
https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1478127904596897792?s=21
Though, just add another £2,999,975 and you could be Lord Endillion.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/06/labour-claim-tories-have-a-cash-for-access-culture
I am now being bombarded with Bad Al and the annoying fox killing lawyer tweets.
The Conservatives also well ahead in the South East and East, just 5% behind in the Northeast and also only 5% behind in London and up to 28% in Scotland
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-january-2022/
Men evolved to eat pussy to detect infidelity
https://twitter.com/Evolving_Moloch/status/1440835475757883400?t=l-TiEIfDx72BgAXzQ_fStg&s=19
And, lesbianism was an evolutionary trait formed by men wanting threesomes
https://twitter.com/evopsychgoogle/status/1444639887701917696?t=XNYPs20XcSoi-wpHigPM-g&s=19
This is a ground breaking field and definetly deserves respect.
Again, look at the context. Mandy says Labour is ready to be associated with the word government. BJO can't stand that idea so go after the messenger. "Team Epstein" FFS. Pronounced how Epstein pronounces it? Or how Corbyn does...?
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1478124663360348169?s=20
Jesus Christ that is some I'm-an-idiot shit, right there. I knew you were a lefty, but I didn't think you were yet another dumb lefty. Shame
https://news.sky.com/story/starmer-puts-patriotism-at-heart-of-labour-strategy-in-ambitious-speech-12508566
Either way, it depends on substances you have voluntarily injected, or rejected- substances which society deems dangerous, in their presence or absence, in certain circumstances (and with the overwhelming backing of science)
I fail to see any major difference. No jab, no club; completely pissed, no car
Delighted Snakebite won. He’s been consistently the best this tournament and had some belting matches.
It’s a great sport. I love the prominence the greatest show on earth gets this time of year. Still, it’s Q school next then the premier league.
Just a little disappointed at some of the booing of the Scots and welsh players.
@MrHarryCole
·
3h
Lee Anderson: "If Labour are ten points ahead in Ashfield I'll show my behind in Tesco's window."
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1478132514346737665?t=DPnvSITnNPO-tyjcJ-wwnA&s=19
However darts forums and Facebook groups still have Many old BDO diehards who still go on about ‘family’
The BDO was in terminal decline for many years. They should have merged with the PDC when they had the chance and looked after the amateur game.
There would actually be a swing to the Conservatives in Scotland and London on this poll on 2019, likely in reaction to Sturgeon's and Khan's restrictions. So the Conservatives could even gain seats from the SNP and from Labour in London.
That would be enough to still give the Tories most seats, even if losses in the Midlands and the Northwest and Yorkshire saw them lose their majority
It won’t happen.
There is more interest in the seniors league.
Its not the first time he has tried to accuse me of saying something about someone because they are Jewish.
I have had enough and will now take the matter further.
Goodnight all - back to work tomorrow.
The clear one is the polling showing a small polling boost for Rishi-Conservatives. Real, but not transformative. If the Conservatives have a popularity problem, Rishi isn't a big enough solution.
The other speculative bit is... the sense that Dishy Rishi is also Sneaky Sunak. Whether it's accurate or not, there's the impression that all these leaks (the garden meeting photo, the Truss trade meeting) don't not have his fingerprints on them. If he tries too hard and too ruthlessly, he won't get the gig.
And if it doesn't happen, what would? Con/LD again?
Sunak is the Tory David Miliband
Wouldn't put it past them.
I suppose a grand coalition on the German model is unthinkable.
Maybe a new election within a few months is the likeliest? Boris stays in No 10 because no alternatives are possible, there is a VoNC, then another election?
Your actual one below not so much, your obsession needs to stop
Meh. Remember that Jezbollah constantly mispronounced "Jeffrey Epschtein" to heighten the Jewish element. I see anti-semitism in the hard left because the hard left is riddled with anti-semitism. I am happy to apologise openly to BJO and move on - as I did - to wtaf he meant by trying to associate the noble Lord with a paedophile.
Again, look at the context. Mandy says Labour is ready to be associated with the word government. BJO can't stand that idea so go after the messenger. "Team Epstein" FFS. Pronounced how Epstein pronounces it? Or how Corbyn does...?
So if Boris goes away for a bit, on holiday to take a purely hypothetical example, Conservative ratings improve? (Given the horlicks he was making of things in November/December, doing nothing might have been a genuine improvement).
Win-win in that case.
Hopefully more polls to come this week so we can see if todays Poll was a blip for Lab. or the start of a Tory recovery trend.
I don't think you are an anti-semite. I do think that your "Team Epstein" comment against Peter Mandelson is outrageous as others have also addressed. If I have have gone in "like a steam train" against you I am sorry. This is a political debate forum. We all go at it sometimes, I'm happy to say sorry if it goes too far.
If it comes to it, the UK parties must do a Scotland-only Coalition which completely ignores the SNP, and then revolves power back to Westminster, so that another referendum cannot be called for 30 years
Let this be a stipulation for allowing the SNP back into power. A generation = 30 years. The next indyref will be in 2044 at the earliest, and if that is lost, then 2074. No nation can be held hostage every parliament by some renegade province
I think there is a valid point that the next referendum needs to be framed in an actual "once in a generation" harness in the way that 2014 was not. Can't complain about the people of Scotland voting in record numbers to re-elect a 4th term SNP government pledged to a referendum when nothing formal stops that.
I agree he would likely do the latter
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-american-polity-is-cracked-and-might-collapse-canada-must-prepare/
I think the SNP dictating the terms of a 2nd referendum is massively problematic TBH even if I do not agree with the Tories' ultra unionist stance I would have preferred if May had called the SNP's bluff in 2017 but we are where we are now.
30 years minimum. A generation. Next vote in 2044. No other European country would tolerate this continuous, destabilising nonsense, indeed no other major country on earth
This will benefit Scots as they will look hard at the SNP, finally, and think: are they the best party to run Scotland with the very considerable autonomy we already have? Then they will likely get rid of these clearly corrupt SNP idiots. Maybe Alba will win, who knows
If the Scots don't like that, they are free to go the route of Ireland in the early 20th century, except with the knowledge that they - the Scots - were actually given a free democratic choice to leave the UK, which they decided not to choose, so let that hang on the heads of the violent
* SNP founded in 1934, modelled on Hilter's nationalists; campaigned in WW2 for Scots not to join the 'English' army
But - and it's a big but - despite HYUFD endlessly saying so there was no once in a generation restriction on the referendum. And there is now a clear democratic mandate for a rerun.
Saying "no" only increases the likelihood that when it eventually happens the vote is yes...
But that's a narrow window.
However. My point was. The Tories would be faced with a new election with a leader who had just lost many more than 50 seats.
That couldn't be credible, could it? He'd have to resign as Tory leader.
Caretaker PM till the election? Sure.
If you wish me to unblock you, please
(a) respond to the email I sent you with the email you registered with
and
(b) please post from an IP that is not on a bunch of spam lists
Thx