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Keeping Score: My 2021 Roundup – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Have a good one Foxy! May you save many lives and minimise the damage of chronic conditions!

    I’m intrigued by your new profile picture. The lion rampant taking the central role; two St Georges, an Irish harp and a Saltire. Bugger the taffs?
    Calling PB vexicologists...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Protector
    Yep. I am definitely a Roundhead!
    Didn’t have you down as a Cromwellian. That See U Next Tuesday invaded, raped and pillaged my country. Used my school as a barracks.

    Tony Benn was a big fan. Another Tuesday chap.
    There's a town locally which, at the time, had a major Puritan clergyman, John Owen, as Vicar. Owen, of course went on to much greater things in the Commonwealth and indeed afterwards.
    Time has, as we know moved on, and a historian who lives locally three or four years ago sorted out a talk on Owen. However, the vicar at the time was Anglo-Catholic, insisted on being called 'Father' and so on, and rebuffed him My historian friend was rather hurt.
    Intriguing - Fordham or Oxford, or somewhere else? :smile:

    Very unusual that that sort of mini-spat was happening so recently.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    It just seemed out of place at midnight to be talking about Marcus Rashford and free school meals.
    Oh well, doesn't seem a big deal then. Maybe Brexit was mentioned too? They have to cover something that appealed to all sides.
    It’s NYE FFS! If ever there was a time for leaving politics at the door it’s then!
    The BBC has an issue, the younger demographic over which it obsesses and panders to is less and less interested in it and conventional broadcast media. The BBC tries to attract them but is failing, as are other channels. At the same time the BBC holds a barely disguised contempt for the older demographic who do watch it and value it.

    Neither bodes well for it in the long term using the current funding model which is surely unsustainable
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting piece on Northern Ireland by Ruth Davidson


    https://unherd.com/2021/12/what-hope-for-the-united-kingdom/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=8ba3615655&mc_eid=836634e34b


    Northern Ireland is probably less than six months away from having its first ever nationalist First Minister. And if the Scottish example is anything to go by, a Sinn Fein victory would give the party a platform to campaign relentlessly to end the UK, just as the SNP have done.

    The fight for the future of the UK is about to enter a new phase.

    You're right; it is interesting. And Beattie sounds about right, from memories I have of socialising with Northern Irish colleagues 30 or so years ago.
    It's but one of the tragedies of Brexit that it's reopened the issues in Northern Ireland, which were, or appeared to be, slowly evolving into culture discussions, rather than having such rabble rousing fringes around flags and aggressive nationalism.
    She seems to be conceding that SF may well win next time around, and I take her article as a pitch for a more sensible, moderate unionism that she sees as the best (possibly only) chance of the unionist side recovering its leading position, as against the unionists doing an HY and doubling down on the extremist nuttiness and staying in second place for ever.
    What's interesting is that Dame Davidson is tying herself to Unionism NI-style, however mild. She'd not have dared to do that when she was still local Tory party manager in Scotland.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    It just seemed out of place at midnight to be talking about Marcus Rashford and free school meals.
    Oh well, doesn't seem a big deal then. Maybe Brexit was mentioned too? They have to cover something that appealed to all sides.
    It’s NYE FFS! If ever there was a time for leaving politics at the door it’s then!
    The BBC has an issue, the younger demographic over which it obsesses and panders to is less and less interested in it and conventional broadcast media. The BBC tries to attract them but is failing, as are other channels. At the same time the BBC holds a barely disguised contempt for the older demographic who do watch it and value it.

    Neither bodes well for it in the long term using the current funding model which is surely unsustainable
    BBC2 was fine last night. Joels Holland was an excellent way to see in the New York as always (just switch over for the fireworks). This morning too BBC2 is showing the traditional Vienna New Year's Day concert.

    It was only BBC1 last night that was the problem
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    IanB2 said:

    A stunning sunrise developing this morning, and the first significant blue sky since Boxing Day

    Blue sky and sunshine here, listening to the New Year concert from Vienna, great start to the year.
    I could not last to the Bells last night I was just too tired, first time in almost 60 years.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    A stunning sunrise developing this morning, and the first significant blue sky since Boxing Day

    Blue sky and sunshine here, listening to the New Year concert from Vienna, great start to the year.
    I could not last to the Bells last night I was just too tired, first time in almost 60 years.
    Morning Malky, morning walk was glousterie with a smirr but has settled down to blue skies and beginning to have sunny periods.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745


    I keep nearly backing L'Homme Presse for the Turners but he'd be up against Bob Olinger. Similarly for I Am Maximus who goes in the first.

    The problem with the novice chasers and hurdlers is each has three options - 2 miles, 2 miles 5 furlongs and 3 miles. Until you have a clearer idea which way they are going, ante post playing is even riskier.

    L'HOMME PRESSE is 16s with PP for the Turners - BOB OLINGER will, I think run but neither BRAVEMANSGAME nor GALOPIN DES CHAMPS (the next two in the list) are certain. The latter might go for the RSA while FERNY HOLLOW might go for the Arkle so you could see the field cut up for the Turners in which case an 16s each way ticket might look very reasonable.

    As we saw with ENVOI ALLEN last year, the jumping test at Cheltenham is very different from the Irish or English park courses because they go a proper gallop in the championship races.

  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    It just seemed out of place at midnight to be talking about Marcus Rashford and free school meals.
    Oh well, doesn't seem a big deal then. Maybe Brexit was mentioned too? They have to cover something that appealed to all sides.
    It’s NYE FFS! If ever there was a time for leaving politics at the door it’s then!
    The BBC has an issue, the younger demographic over which it obsesses and panders to is less and less interested in it and conventional broadcast media. The BBC tries to attract them but is failing, as are other channels. At the same time the BBC holds a barely disguised contempt for the older demographic who do watch it and value it.

    Neither bodes well for it in the long term using the current funding model which is surely unsustainable
    BBC2 was fine last night. Joels Holland was an excellent way to see in the New York as always (just switch over for the fireworks). This morning too BBC2 is showing the traditional Vienna New Year's Day concert.

    It was only BBC1 last night that was the problem
    None of which refutes my point as it is a wider observation in the BBC.

    I didn’t watch either last night so can’t comment on the shows.

    There is too much politics about defund the BBC.

    The issue is of fairness of funding model in the modern era. The license fee is untenable in my view
  • ClippP said:

    eek said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There are no votes in PR as demonstrated by the referendum that created Cummings.
    Untrue. The message from the Tory camp was clear. If you want any form of real PR, vote against AV - with the implication that the Tories would do something to bring in proper PR.

    As usual, they were just saying whatever it took to defend the indefensible FPTP.
    I don’t remember that: citation needed I think.
    Dunno about the official Conservative campaign, but there were people saying it.

    One of the problems with binary votes. If "Too much" and "Not enough" can be persuaded to unite as "No", it can outvote a compromise that everyone would tolerate as a second choice.

    Worked to defeat AV, and one of the dynamics of 2016 was the alliance of those who saw the EU as too globalising and those who saw it as too protectionist.
    I seem to remember a similar issue preventing May getting her agreement though Parliament.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    londoneye said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Is there a market for that? Btw I see one of your fellow Leicester quacks got CBE'd overnight.
    Yes, it is being used, as per the first link.

    Who got the CBE? Shamefully it seems that I have been overlooked again. Perhaps supporting historical regicide went against me 🤔
    Cromwell didn't want to abolish monarchs, he just wanted the monarch to be him and then his eldest son, so I don't think he is a terribly good standard bearer for your cause. Fannying about with regal looking coats of arms rather underlines the point.
    He refused the Crown when offered.

    Sure, he had his faults, but who doesn't?
    There has always been a suggestion that he was however also nervous about being bound by the laws that came with it, which as Charles I found the hard way, were much more restrictive than is generally supposed.
    Taking the plums and leaving the duff. And bloody hell he pushed it, creating peerages and being called His Highness etc

    On Epstein, the source you link says cctv shows nobody entering "the area" on the night in question. Perfectly consistent with the cctv outside the cell being on the blink (which wiki says it was, cba to look at its sources) and therefore with anyone already in the area to get up to mischief

    The trial of these jokers was the one shot we had at a forensic examination of Epsteins end. Seems extraordinary to pass it up. It would be really interesting to know from a ny attorney whether a plea bargain is what you'd expect in a case like this.

    Anyway as @Leon pointed out last night "conspiracy theory" is now shorthand for "I choose not to believe that," the lab leak theory being a case in point. People do commit crimes or make mistakes and go to great lengths to cover them up. Conspiracy theories are that nasa faked the moon landings or that the vaccine is Microsoft nanochips.

    And look at Donald Crowhurst. If that had been fiction it would probably have been interpreted as a satire on the moon landing hoax theory. It happened though.
    Er...if you quote it correctly you will find it says 'footage shows nobody entered the area on the night in question.' Which is altogether different.

    There were, earlier, claims the camera was not working. So far, they have been contradicted by official reports.

    Of course, the officials could be lying. But, then again, so could those who claim the officials are lying.

    Anyway, I would point out that you are still missing the point. One last try. There are innumerable conspiracy theories around Epstein's death. The fact his guards, whose negligence enabled his death, have now in effect been told not to be so silly again and let off will certainly add fuel to that fire and there will be more of them flying around than ever.

    Now, feel free to disagree with that statement, but I'm happy it's a prediction that will be accurate.
    There were multiple cameras. The situation seems to be that there was a working camera covering the entrance to the area generally, and a non working camera more specifically targeted at Epstein s cell.

    I am not missing the point. You are, in that you are perversely framing what most of us would just call "evidence" as "fuel for conspiracy theorists." That may be right but it is a secondary side effect, unless you have independent reason to be certain that there is no question about Epstein's end. You don't.
    Aaaargh! I am saying the guards being let off is fuel for conspiracy theorists. That is the point you are missing!
    We are not disagreeing but you are framing it perversely. If A is murdered and B is seen fleeing the scene with a murder weapon, would you say That looks like evidence of Bs guilt or would you say Aha! That will fuel a million conspiracy theories about B's guilt?
    That's an utterly ludicrous parallel. Are you saying we have evidence of somebody else being at the scene? Because if not, I really don't know what point you're making.

    Look, this isn't getting us far. You're missing the point entirely, and you also seem to be interested in internet theories not in official statements. Shall we just agree to disagree and leave it there?
    No, my point was at a more abstract level than that.

    If we are attributing a high probability of veracity to "official statements" then 2022 turns out to be 1984.
    So what you're saying is, we should disbelieve them on principle?

    That's the very definition of a conspiracy theory...

    For the final time and then I am going to leave it - I am not saying it was impossible Epstein was murdered, and the fact his guards have been effectively exonerated will lead to many more suggestions that he was. I am saying it doesn't fit the available evidence very well, and not as well as the official story of a suicide. Therefore, those who say otherwise are putting forward the idea there was a vast conspiracy to murder him, which is called 'a conspiracy theory.'

    Anyway, I have some shopping to do. Have a good morning.
    you have to remember many russians regarded the gulags as a conspiracy theory...
    And stories about Nazi atrocities were widely dismissed as conspiracy theories in the second world war until 1945

    "George Orwell wrote in 1944: ‘“Atrocities” had come to be looked on as synonymous with “lies”. The stories about German concentration camps were atrocity stories: therefore they were lies – so reasoned the average man.’" Max Hastings, All Hell Let Loose

    In fact the more I look at the phrase "conspiracy theory" the more weaselly it turns out to be.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,169
    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    *Betting Post *🐎 New Years Day.
    Paging as usual @Malky @Stodge (both not afraid at times to post tips) and anyone who wants to share love of the sport this day.

    I appreciate not every gambler loves sharing, and sharing publicly. I suspect though some people reading PB may be betting horse racing regular particularly the Saturday I will be placing bets today and means a degree of “due diligence” on my choices I don’t mind sharing what led to my decision 🙂

    I tend to go hurdles, as is I think large risk to any horse getting up and landing over the bigger fences. Especially last week, after my homework to find horses in a good place at business end of race so many fell in the first few fences which is a frustrating thing to feel.

    MoonRabbits tips for today.

    1:25 CHELTENHAM - Come On Teddy
    Staying power and has won a chase on officially soft. And someone has to spoil L'Homme Presse form book some point.

    2:35 CHELTENHAM - Dolphin Square
    Right distance, right going, right form. Right for my long shot tip from open looking race.

    2:50 MUSSELBURGH - Amour De Nuit
    Off to Scotland for a stone cold sober (NAP) the pick of the five runners has won over fences at this distance.

    3:10 CHELTENHAM - Brewin'upastorm
    Classy horse with plenty of wins over fences and hurdles including last time out.

    Best of luck everyone. Take care and enjoy ongoing holidays!

    @Moonrabbit , good luck for today. I have done quite a few today.

    For Cheltenham
    12:50 Destinee Royale
    13:25 L'homme Pressee
    15:10 Brewingupastorm

    Also see Nicholls has sent 4 horses to Musselburgh which is a fair old trek so have done a novelty yankee on those ones as well.

    Think Elimay is a good one at Fairyhouse and Mullins likely to have a good day there.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    My biggest fear for this New Year is not Covid (which is success of a sort, I suppose) but a financial meltdown in China. I think that this is getting nearer to more likely than not and we will not escape the consequences. During Covid we have seen what disruptions to supply lines are caused by stutters in China. They are now absolutely central to our economic system, particularly in production.

    I also think we need to worry about how Xi will respond to such a crisis. A distracting war is not off the table by any means.

    Certainly China will have a recession sooner or later. Such is the nature of capitalism, but predictions of the economic collapse of China are as perennial as the collapse of the EU,.

    Xi is economically further left in terms of approach, even with overtones of Maoism at times in condemnation of entrepreneurs and in favour of redistribution. Managing a capatilist downturn that way would certainly send shockwaves, but I think the battles would be internal rather than external.

    Economically, I think we have stagflation on the cards this year. I don't find the optimistic growth forecasts credible in the financial aftermath of the pandemic, and I think we will see further aftershocks for some time. The world has changed and we will live differently.
    I reckon 2 or 3 of Evergrande, Kasia, Fantasia and Modern Land will go bust this year. The knock on effects of this on a system built on ever increasing demand supplied by ever rising house prices will be immense. China is now so big that it is pretty much inconceivable that the rest of the world can take up the slack in that demand, indeed they are more likely to impose further tariffs under allegations of "dumping".

    If this happens we will have a fairly severe recession here, not stagflation with more disruption to international trade than was caused by Covid.
    Just as well that no other country has built a consumer economy on the back of ever increasing house prices...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842
    edited January 2022
    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    Which. When you think about it is strange. After all it would take a major war or asteroid strike to be worse.
    Recessions come and go. We know how to cope with them. The pandemic is on its deathbed.
    I'm optimistic.
  • I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    I don't know who the singer was but he was awful. Just really poor karaoke style covers.

    Compared to Jools Holland with professional signers, bands, musicians etc it was just a really poor knock off. Channel 4 would be embarrassed at the quality of it.

    Oh and a personal bugbear since I almost never watch BBC anyway, but its 2022 why the hell is BBC1 on channel 101 (Sky) still in SD instead of HD? Ridiculous.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    It just seemed out of place at midnight to be talking about Marcus Rashford and free school meals.
    Oh well, doesn't seem a big deal then. Maybe Brexit was mentioned too? They have to cover something that appealed to all sides.
    It’s NYE FFS! If ever there was a time for leaving politics at the door it’s then!
    The BBC has an issue, the younger demographic over which it obsesses and panders to is less and less interested in it and conventional broadcast media. The BBC tries to attract them but is failing, as are other channels. At the same time the BBC holds a barely disguised contempt for the older demographic who do watch it and value it.

    Neither bodes well for it in the long term using the current funding model which is surely unsustainable
    BBC2 was fine last night. Joels Holland was an excellent way to see in the New York as always (just switch over for the fireworks). This morning too BBC2 is showing the traditional Vienna New Year's Day concert.

    It was only BBC1 last night that was the problem
    None of which refutes my point as it is a wider observation in the BBC.

    I didn’t watch either last night so can’t comment on the shows.

    There is too much politics about defund the BBC.

    The issue is of fairness of funding model in the modern era. The license fee is untenable in my view
    Or just split the license fee revenue to fund cultural, scientific and sporting programmes of public benefit with other broadcasters
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    edited January 2022
    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    It just seemed out of place at midnight to be talking about Marcus Rashford and free school meals.
    Oh well, doesn't seem a big deal then. Maybe Brexit was mentioned too? They have to cover something that appealed to all sides.
    It’s NYE FFS! If ever there was a time for leaving politics at the door it’s then!
    The BBC has an issue, the younger demographic over which it obsesses and panders to is less and less interested in it and conventional broadcast media. The BBC tries to attract them but is failing, as are other channels. At the same time the BBC holds a barely disguised contempt for the older demographic who do watch it and value it.

    Neither bodes well for it in the long term using the current funding model which is surely unsustainable
    I didn't pay it much attention last night, but have rewatched it on iplayer. Where is the "barely disguised contempt for the older demographic"?

    Indeed it seems just a bit bland to me. The drone show was cool though.

    Happy New Year Live!, 2022: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0012wv1 via @bbciplayer
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Is there a market for that? Btw I see one of your fellow Leicester quacks got CBE'd overnight.
    Yes, it is being used, as per the first link.

    Who got the CBE? Shamefully it seems that I have been overlooked again. Perhaps supporting historical regicide went against me 🤔
    Cromwell didn't want to abolish monarchs, he just wanted the monarch to be him and then his eldest son, so I don't think he is a terribly good standard bearer for your cause. Fannying about with regal looking coats of arms rather underlines the point.
    He refused the Crown when offered.

    Sure, he had his faults, but who doesn't?
    There has always been a suggestion that he was however also nervous about being bound by the laws that came with it, which as Charles I found the hard way, were much more restrictive than is generally supposed.
    Taking the plums and leaving the duff. And bloody hell he pushed it, creating peerages and being called His Highness etc

    On Epstein, the source you link says cctv shows nobody entering "the area" on the night in question. Perfectly consistent with the cctv outside the cell being on the blink (which wiki says it was, cba to look at its sources) and therefore with anyone already in the area to get up to mischief

    The trial of these jokers was the one shot we had at a forensic examination of Epsteins end. Seems extraordinary to pass it up. It would be really interesting to know from a ny attorney whether a plea bargain is what you'd expect in a case like this.

    Anyway as @Leon pointed out last night "conspiracy theory" is now shorthand for "I choose not to believe that," the lab leak theory being a case in point. People do commit crimes or make mistakes and go to great lengths to cover them up. Conspiracy theories are that nasa faked the moon landings or that the vaccine is Microsoft nanochips.

    And look at Donald Crowhurst. If that had been fiction it would probably have been interpreted as a satire on the moon landing hoax theory. It happened though.
    Er...if you quote it correctly you will find it says 'footage shows nobody entered the area on the night in question.' Which is altogether different.

    There were, earlier, claims the camera was not working. So far, they have been contradicted by official reports.

    Of course, the officials could be lying. But, then again, so could those who claim the officials are lying.

    Anyway, I would point out that you are still missing the point. One last try. There are innumerable conspiracy theories around Epstein's death. The fact his guards, whose negligence enabled his death, have now in effect been told not to be so silly again and let off will certainly add fuel to that fire and there will be more of them flying around than ever.

    Now, feel free to disagree with that statement, but I'm happy it's a prediction that will be accurate.
    There were multiple cameras. The situation seems to be that there was a working camera covering the entrance to the area generally, and a non working camera more specifically targeted at Epstein s cell.

    I am not missing the point. You are, in that you are perversely framing what most of us would just call "evidence" as "fuel for conspiracy theorists." That may be right but it is a secondary side effect, unless you have independent reason to be certain that there is no question about Epstein's end. You don't.
    Aaaargh! I am saying the guards being let off is fuel for conspiracy theorists. That is the point you are missing!
    True conspiracy theorists rarely need anything as crude as “fuel”.
    In any case, the fuel can't burn at temperatures that high.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 583
    edited January 2022
    Happy New Year.

    I am one of those who doesn't bother to stay up to midnight and usually I am irritated by being woken by fireworks. However, this time I was rather cheered that some people were optimistic enough to celebrate the New Year.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    SandraMc said:

    Happy New Year.

    I am one of those who doesn't bother to stay up to midnight and usually I am irritated by being woken by fireworks. However, this time I was rather cheered that some people were optimistic enough to celebrate the New Year.

    I always see it less as celebrating the new year, and more as burying the old year six feet deep, with a concrete overcoat. 2021 especially so.

    Nonetheless, happy new year :)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,883



    Conscription was formally abolished in the late 90s, so No to Mandatory Military Service. I do have mates who completed it.

    However, you're meant to sign up for service, should the need arise, and Macron has recently introduced something that sounds more like the DofE.

    I think most of the central & western European nations that don't have conscription/mandatory national service only got rid of it relatively recently.

    Conscripts are a net negative for a modern military. They need a lot of senior NCOs to manage their moral, discipline and training and they aren't in long enough to be useful as anything other than cannon fodder.

    The French armed forces do a couple of things well which the British would do well to emulate. A lot (50% in the Navy) of their officers come up through the ranks which eases the senior NCO retention problem and they have a direct entry route for SPOs/Warrant Officers which helps with recruiting scarce technical skills.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    HYUFD said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    Yes, I too thought where are 2022's answer to Kenneth McKellar and Moira Anderson when the nation needs them?

    The spectacle was a bizarre train wreck for anyone over 25.
    Graham Norton was below par too compared to usual beforehand and pretty crude.

    Did not even watch BBC1 after that watched Joel's Holland's Hootenanny on BBC2, switched over for the fireworks then switched back again.

    With the Vienna New Year's Day concert on BBC2 this morning too if you only watch BBC2 over New Year you will be fine
    The Vienna concert is excellent
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited January 2022

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    I don't know who the singer was but he was awful. Just really poor karaoke style covers.

    Compared to Jools Holland with professional signers, bands, musicians etc it was just a really poor knock off. Channel 4 would be embarrassed at the quality of it.

    Oh and a personal bugbear since I almost never watch BBC anyway, but its 2022 why the hell is BBC1 on channel 101 (Sky) still in SD instead of HD? Ridiculous.
    Because BBC1 is a regional channel and isn't in HD, BBC1 HD is a national channel which excludes all of the regional content (news). ITV got rid of their regional content to allow for one HD stream rather than multiplex their regional streams to one channel and have a separate national HD one.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    I for one am outraged at the quality of the programming nobody forced me to watch.

    What a way to start the year, you miserable bastards.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    edited January 2022
    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    Maybe don't spend so much time on Twitter? I try to only go on there for facts-based information like election results. Happy New Year.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    edited January 2022
    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    The joy of miserablist pessimism is that you are rarely disappointed, and occasionally pleasantly surprised.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    It just seemed out of place at midnight to be talking about Marcus Rashford and free school meals.
    Oh well, doesn't seem a big deal then. Maybe Brexit was mentioned too? They have to cover something that appealed to all sides.
    It’s NYE FFS! If ever there was a time for leaving politics at the door it’s then!
    The BBC has an issue, the younger demographic over which it obsesses and panders to is less and less interested in it and conventional broadcast media. The BBC tries to attract them but is failing, as are other channels. At the same time the BBC holds a barely disguised contempt for the older demographic who do watch it and value it.

    Neither bodes well for it in the long term using the current funding model which is surely unsustainable
    I didn't pay it much attention last night, but have rewatched it on iplayer. Where is the "barely disguised contempt for the older demographic"?

    Indeed it seems just a bit bland to me. The drone show was cool though.

    Happy New Year Live!, 2022: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0012wv1 via @bbciplayer
    As I said previously, my comment is a general one about the BBC not the specific show last night which I didn’t see and have not commented on.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,962
    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    The joy of miserablist pessimism is that you are rarely disappointed, and occasionally pleasantly surprised.
    This doesn’t work in reality. In reality you’re merely disappointed twice.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Is there a market for that? Btw I see one of your fellow Leicester quacks got CBE'd overnight.
    Yes, it is being used, as per the first link.

    Who got the CBE? Shamefully it seems that I have been overlooked again. Perhaps supporting historical regicide went against me 🤔
    Cromwell didn't want to abolish monarchs, he just wanted the monarch to be him and then his eldest son, so I don't think he is a terribly good standard bearer for your cause. Fannying about with regal looking coats of arms rather underlines the point.
    He refused the Crown when offered.

    Sure, he had his faults, but who doesn't?
    There has always been a suggestion that he was however also nervous about being bound by the laws that came with it, which as Charles I found the hard way, were much more restrictive than is generally supposed.
    Taking the plums and leaving the duff. And bloody hell he pushed it, creating peerages and being called His Highness etc

    On Epstein, the source you link says cctv shows nobody entering "the area" on the night in question. Perfectly consistent with the cctv outside the cell being on the blink (which wiki says it was, cba to look at its sources) and therefore with anyone already in the area to get up to mischief

    The trial of these jokers was the one shot we had at a forensic examination of Epsteins end. Seems extraordinary to pass it up. It would be really interesting to know from a ny attorney whether a plea bargain is what you'd expect in a case like this.

    Anyway as @Leon pointed out last night "conspiracy theory" is now shorthand for "I choose not to believe that," the lab leak theory being a case in point. People do commit crimes or make mistakes and go to great lengths to cover them up. Conspiracy theories are that nasa faked the moon landings or that the vaccine is Microsoft nanochips.

    And look at Donald Crowhurst. If that had been fiction it would probably have been interpreted as a satire on the moon landing hoax theory. It happened though.
    Er...if you quote it correctly you will find it says 'footage shows nobody entered the area on the night in question.' Which is altogether different.

    There were, earlier, claims the camera was not working. So far, they have been contradicted by official reports.

    Of course, the officials could be lying. But, then again, so could those who claim the officials are lying.

    Anyway, I would point out that you are still missing the point. One last try. There are innumerable conspiracy theories around Epstein's death. The fact his guards, whose negligence enabled his death, have now in effect been told not to be so silly again and let off will certainly add fuel to that fire and there will be more of them flying around than ever.

    Now, feel free to disagree with that statement, but I'm happy it's a prediction that will be accurate.
    There were multiple cameras. The situation seems to be that there was a working camera covering the entrance to the area generally, and a non working camera more specifically targeted at Epstein s cell.

    I am not missing the point. You are, in that you are perversely framing what most of us would just call "evidence" as "fuel for conspiracy theorists." That may be right but it is a secondary side effect, unless you have independent reason to be certain that there is no question about Epstein's end. You don't.
    Aaaargh! I am saying the guards being let off is fuel for conspiracy theorists. That is the point you are missing!
    True conspiracy theorists rarely need anything as crude as “fuel”.
    In any case, the fuel can't burn at temperatures that high.
    It would help if we could agree on a paradigm case of a conspiracy theory. I don't see that Epstein makes it at all. Murder being misdiagnosed as suicide is an everyday occurrence. There might be a case where the suicide evidence is so strong that it would be insane and perverse to question it, but Epstein sure af isn't it. Indeed "conspiracy theory" turns out in this case just to mean theory, just as "sea change" just means "change" and "epicentre" means centre.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Ironic
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    It just seemed out of place at midnight to be talking about Marcus Rashford and free school meals.
    Oh well, doesn't seem a big deal then. Maybe Brexit was mentioned too? They have to cover something that appealed to all sides.
    It’s NYE FFS! If ever there was a time for leaving politics at the door it’s then!
    The BBC has an issue, the younger demographic over which it obsesses and panders to is less and less interested in it and conventional broadcast media. The BBC tries to attract them but is failing, as are other channels. At the same time the BBC holds a barely disguised contempt for the older demographic who do watch it and value it.

    Neither bodes well for it in the long term using the current funding model which is surely unsustainable
    BBC2 was fine last night. Joels Holland was an excellent way to see in the New York as always (just switch over for the fireworks). This morning too BBC2 is showing the traditional Vienna New Year's Day concert.

    It was only BBC1 last night that was the problem
    None of which refutes my point as it is a wider observation in the BBC.

    I didn’t watch either last night so can’t comment on the shows.

    There is too much politics about defund the BBC.

    The issue is of fairness of funding model in the modern era. The license fee is untenable in my view
    Or just split the license fee revenue to fund cultural, scientific and sporting programmes of public benefit with other broadcasters
    Yup, fund local radio and any other true public service broadcasting from the license fee and share that money with Other stations. Maybe even those cheap local Tv stations that are still around, like the “Made In” brand.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Happy new year all, I think last night was the final party at ours, next time we'll be in Zurich. Even if my wife calls it off I don't think we'll do it again. It was fine in our flat which was smaller but in our house 8 people felt quite sparse party but we wouldn't want more than that.

    I do feel as though our party days were left behind with our flat. 😢
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting piece on Northern Ireland by Ruth Davidson


    https://unherd.com/2021/12/what-hope-for-the-united-kingdom/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=8ba3615655&mc_eid=836634e34b


    Northern Ireland is probably less than six months away from having its first ever nationalist First Minister. And if the Scottish example is anything to go by, a Sinn Fein victory would give the party a platform to campaign relentlessly to end the UK, just as the SNP have done.

    The fight for the future of the UK is about to enter a new phase.

    Surprised that the baroness has time for this what with her stated aim of reforming the HoL (though that enterprise seems stalled, not to say non existent). Davidson seems to be pinning an awful lot on the blokey appeal of Doug Beattie.
    I thought fatso left Holyrood to spend more time with her family, yet she ends up camped in London and on as many boards of directors as she can get attached to.
  • Wes seems to be blaming it on Owen Jones..

  • MaxPB said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    I don't know who the singer was but he was awful. Just really poor karaoke style covers.

    Compared to Jools Holland with professional signers, bands, musicians etc it was just a really poor knock off. Channel 4 would be embarrassed at the quality of it.

    Oh and a personal bugbear since I almost never watch BBC anyway, but its 2022 why the hell is BBC1 on channel 101 (Sky) still in SD instead of HD? Ridiculous.
    Because BBC1 is a regional channel and isn't in HD, BBC1 HD is a national channel which excludes all of the regional content (news). ITV got rid of their regional content to allow for one HD stream rather than multiplex their regional streams to one channel and have a separate national HD one.
    Pretty pathetic in 2022.

    Though the show would have been crap even if it was HD, it wouldn't have improved the quality of the singing etc from a poor fifth rate knock off of covers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    edited January 2022
    Dura_Ace said:



    Conscription was formally abolished in the late 90s, so No to Mandatory Military Service. I do have mates who completed it.

    However, you're meant to sign up for service, should the need arise, and Macron has recently introduced something that sounds more like the DofE.

    I think most of the central & western European nations that don't have conscription/mandatory national service only got rid of it relatively recently.

    Conscripts are a net negative for a modern military. They need a lot of senior NCOs to manage their moral, discipline and training and they aren't in long enough to be useful as anything other than cannon fodder.

    The French armed forces do a couple of things well which the British would do well to emulate. A lot (50% in the Navy) of their officers come up through the ranks which eases the senior NCO retention problem and they have a direct entry route for SPOs/Warrant Officers which helps with recruiting scarce technical skills.
    My dad had the latter in the 1940s - trained for 3 years as an apprentice artificer (ordnance) to superb standards, then straight in as PO as I understand it (certainly with little delay if at all). But that was very much a specialist trade thing. They still needed chaps with Officer-Like Qualities to order him around. At least then, wartime exigencies aside, Oily Q could (it sometimes seemed) only be obtained in a Headmasters' Conference or decent Grammar School - or, I suppose, DArtmouth. No idea if that has changed today.
  • Wes seems to be blaming it on Owen Jones..

    @wesstreeting
    Replying to
    @Taj_Ali1
    Owen Jones, actually. True story.
    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1477063298680070144
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,859
    On the subject of "Conspiracy Theories", I took a few minutes to rank a few that spring to mind.

    Category A, No chance:

    - World run by liberal elite pedo ring.
    - Moon landings faked.
    - Covid doesn’t exist.
    - The Kennedys killed Marilyn.

    Category B, Possible but on balance no:

    - Oswald didn’t act alone.
    - David Kelly was murdered.
    - Epstein was murdered.
    - Covid came from a lab.
    - Corbyn voted Leave.
    - The Nazis burnt the Reichstag.

    Category C, Probable, in fact almost certainly true:

    - Boris Johnson despite appearances is built like a brick shithouse. He’s almost all muscle.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,461
    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    Bloody hell. Quite a contradiction between your first word and the rest of the post, which sounds somewhat less than 'Happy'!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    Dura_Ace said:



    Conscription was formally abolished in the late 90s, so No to Mandatory Military Service. I do have mates who completed it.

    However, you're meant to sign up for service, should the need arise, and Macron has recently introduced something that sounds more like the DofE.

    I think most of the central & western European nations that don't have conscription/mandatory national service only got rid of it relatively recently.

    Conscripts are a net negative for a modern military. They need a lot of senior NCOs to manage their moral, discipline and training and they aren't in long enough to be useful as anything other than cannon fodder.

    The French armed forces do a couple of things well which the British would do well to emulate. A lot (50% in the Navy) of their officers come up through the ranks which eases the senior NCO retention problem and they have a direct entry route for SPOs/Warrant Officers which helps with recruiting scarce technical skills.
    Those both sound very sound approaches. Not that the Ruperts would agree.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    malcolmg said:

    *Betting Post *🐎 New Years Day.
    Paging as usual @Malky @Stodge (both not afraid at times to post tips) and anyone who wants to share love of the sport this day.

    I appreciate not every gambler loves sharing, and sharing publicly. I suspect though some people reading PB may be betting horse racing regular particularly the Saturday I will be placing bets today and means a degree of “due diligence” on my choices I don’t mind sharing what led to my decision 🙂

    I tend to go hurdles, as is I think large risk to any horse getting up and landing over the bigger fences. Especially last week, after my homework to find horses in a good place at business end of race so many fell in the first few fences which is a frustrating thing to feel.

    MoonRabbits tips for today.

    1:25 CHELTENHAM - Come On Teddy
    Staying power and has won a chase on officially soft. And someone has to spoil L'Homme Presse form book some point.

    2:35 CHELTENHAM - Dolphin Square
    Right distance, right going, right form. Right for my long shot tip from open looking race.

    2:50 MUSSELBURGH - Amour De Nuit
    Off to Scotland for a stone cold sober (NAP) the pick of the five runners has won over fences at this distance.

    3:10 CHELTENHAM - Brewin'upastorm
    Classy horse with plenty of wins over fences and hurdles including last time out.

    Best of luck everyone. Take care and enjoy ongoing holidays!

    @Moonrabbit , good luck for today. I have done quite a few today.

    For Cheltenham
    12:50 Destinee Royale
    13:25 L'homme Pressee
    15:10 Brewingupastorm

    Also see Nicholls has sent 4 horses to Musselburgh which is a fair old trek so have done a novelty yankee on those ones as well.

    Think Elimay is a good one at Fairyhouse and Mullins likely to have a good day there.
    I’m taking you on with Come On Teddy, and sharing a croggy with brewing up 🙂

    Good luck to you too today and all New Year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    It just seemed out of place at midnight to be talking about Marcus Rashford and free school meals.
    Oh well, doesn't seem a big deal then. Maybe Brexit was mentioned too? They have to cover something that appealed to all sides.
    It’s NYE FFS! If ever there was a time for leaving politics at the door it’s then!
    The BBC has an issue, the younger demographic over which it obsesses and panders to is less and less interested in it and conventional broadcast media. The BBC tries to attract them but is failing, as are other channels. At the same time the BBC holds a barely disguised contempt for the older demographic who do watch it and value it.

    Neither bodes well for it in the long term using the current funding model which is surely unsustainable
    BBC2 was fine last night. Joels Holland was an excellent way to see in the New York as always (just switch over for the fireworks). This morning too BBC2 is showing the traditional Vienna New Year's Day concert.

    It was only BBC1 last night that was the problem
    None of which refutes my point as it is a wider observation in the BBC.

    I didn’t watch either last night so can’t comment on the shows.

    There is too much politics about defund the BBC.

    The issue is of fairness of funding model in the modern era. The license fee is untenable in my view
    Or just split the license fee revenue to fund cultural, scientific and sporting programmes of public benefit with other broadcasters
    Yup, fund local radio and any other true public service broadcasting from the license fee and share that money with Other stations. Maybe even those cheap local Tv stations that are still around, like the “Made In” brand.
    And the BBC can fund shows like Strictly through advertising too
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting piece on Northern Ireland by Ruth Davidson


    https://unherd.com/2021/12/what-hope-for-the-united-kingdom/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=8ba3615655&mc_eid=836634e34b


    Northern Ireland is probably less than six months away from having its first ever nationalist First Minister. And if the Scottish example is anything to go by, a Sinn Fein victory would give the party a platform to campaign relentlessly to end the UK, just as the SNP have done.

    The fight for the future of the UK is about to enter a new phase.

    You're right; it is interesting. And Beattie sounds about right, from memories I have of socialising with Northern Irish colleagues 30 or so years ago.
    It's but one of the tragedies of Brexit that it's reopened the issues in Northern Ireland, which were, or appeared to be, slowly evolving into culture discussions, rather than having such rabble rousing fringes around flags and aggressive nationalism.
    She seems to be conceding that SF may well win next time around, and I take her article as a pitch for a more sensible, moderate unionism that she sees as the best (possibly only) chance of the unionist side recovering its leading position, as against the unionists doing an HY and doubling down on the extremist nuttiness and staying in second place for ever.
    What's interesting is that Dame Davidson is tying herself to Unionism NI-style, however mild. She'd not have dared to do that when she was still local Tory party manager in Scotland.
    Mason Boyne lookalike
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I have little truck with those suffering woke derangement syndrome, but I really do wonder what BBC1 thought they were doing with their NYE coverage… it would be genuinely interesting to hear their thinking and to understand why they think the content should be aimed at such a tiny share of their paying “customers”… one can understand why people feel their traditions are deliberately ignored and, when given the chance, vote for the likes of Brexit.

    I wasn't watching, but I see several people here were annoyed. What did they do that bothered you?
    It just seemed out of place at midnight to be talking about Marcus Rashford and free school meals.
    Oh well, doesn't seem a big deal then. Maybe Brexit was mentioned too? They have to cover something that appealed to all sides.
    It’s NYE FFS! If ever there was a time for leaving politics at the door it’s then!
    The BBC has an issue, the younger demographic over which it obsesses and panders to is less and less interested in it and conventional broadcast media. The BBC tries to attract them but is failing, as are other channels. At the same time the BBC holds a barely disguised contempt for the older demographic who do watch it and value it.

    Neither bodes well for it in the long term using the current funding model which is surely unsustainable
    BBC2 was fine last night. Joels Holland was an excellent way to see in the New York as always (just switch over for the fireworks). This morning too BBC2 is showing the traditional Vienna New Year's Day concert.

    It was only BBC1 last night that was the problem
    None of which refutes my point as it is a wider observation in the BBC.

    I didn’t watch either last night so can’t comment on the shows.

    There is too much politics about defund the BBC.

    The issue is of fairness of funding model in the modern era. The license fee is untenable in my view
    Or just split the license fee revenue to fund cultural, scientific and sporting programmes of public benefit with other broadcasters
    Yup, fund local radio and any other true public service broadcasting from the license fee and share that money with Other stations. Maybe even those cheap local Tv stations that are still around, like the “Made In” brand.
    And the BBC can fund shows like Strictly through advertising too
    Yes, that sounds a fairer approach.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    Wouldn't it make more sense to replace the TV licence with say a broadband licence? I mean if licensing is even the way to go....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    On the subject of "Conspiracy Theories", I took a few minutes to rank a few that spring to mind.

    Category A, No chance:

    - World run by liberal elite pedo ring.
    - Moon landings faked.
    - Covid doesn’t exist.
    - The Kennedys killed Marilyn.

    Category B, Possible but on balance no:

    - Oswald didn’t act alone.
    - David Kelly was murdered.
    - Epstein was murdered.
    - Covid came from a lab.
    - Corbyn voted Leave.
    - The Nazis burnt the Reichstag.

    Category C, Probable, in fact almost certainly true:

    - Boris Johnson despite appearances is built like a brick shithouse. He’s almost all muscle.

    B and C are not conspiracy theories.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    kinabalu said:

    On the subject of "Conspiracy Theories", I took a few minutes to rank a few that spring to mind.

    Category A, No chance:

    - World run by liberal elite pedo ring.
    - Moon landings faked.
    - Covid doesn’t exist.
    - The Kennedys killed Marilyn.

    Category B, Possible but on balance no:

    - Oswald didn’t act alone.
    - David Kelly was murdered.
    - Epstein was murdered.
    - Covid came from a lab.
    - Corbyn voted Leave.
    - The Nazis burnt the Reichstag.

    Category C, Probable, in fact almost certainly true:

    - Boris Johnson despite appearances is built like a brick shithouse. He’s almost all muscle.

    My favourite one is that all street pigeons are electronic spies, and that the lockdowns were so that the batteries could be changed.

    Here is a short link to the evidence:

    https://pigeonsarentreal.co.uk/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited January 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Who mentioned Brexit?
    Oh...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    On the subject of "Conspiracy Theories", I took a few minutes to rank a few that spring to mind.

    Category A, No chance:

    - World run by liberal elite pedo ring.
    - Moon landings faked.
    - Covid doesn’t exist.
    - The Kennedys killed Marilyn.

    Category B, Possible but on balance no:

    - Oswald didn’t act alone.
    - David Kelly was murdered.
    - Epstein was murdered.
    - Covid came from a lab.
    - Corbyn voted Leave.
    - The Nazis burnt the Reichstag.

    Category C, Probable, in fact almost certainly true:

    - Boris Johnson despite appearances is built like a brick shithouse. He’s almost all muscle.

    My favourite one is that all street pigeons are electronic spies, and that the lockdowns were so that the batteries could be changed.

    Here is a short link to the evidence:

    https://pigeonsarentreal.co.uk/
    Not yet but it is probably coming. In 2004 or thereabouts MacUser magazine ran an April 1 review of a 3d printer. How we all laughed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    edited January 2022
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Have a good one Foxy! May you save many lives and minimise the damage of chronic conditions!

    I’m intrigued by your new profile picture. The lion rampant taking the central role; two St Georges, an Irish harp and a Saltire. Bugger the taffs?
    Calling PB vexicologists...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Protector
    Yep. I am definitely a Roundhead!
    Didn’t have you down as a Cromwellian. That See U Next Tuesday invaded, raped and pillaged my country. Used my school as a barracks.

    Tony Benn was a big fan. Another Tuesday chap.
    I am broadly a pacifist, so do not support violence, but Cromwell is an intriguing character, with his politics as interesting as his military skills.

    The wars were complex, and initially the Scots Covernantors were on the side of the English Parliament, before changing sides, as did Monck in the end. Civil wars are almost all very uncivil.
    Big mistake of the Covenanters to try and join up with Charles Stuart the malignant after his dad got the chop. He led them to defeat at Worcester and did them no favours after he gained power. Massacres and murders aplenty in the Killing Times.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,089
    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about this year, but that might be because I'm primarily fixated on the desire to see the back of this wretched pandemic and I think we're most of the way there. Winter doesn't look great from the POV of the poor bloody hospitals, and one can never rule out some personal disaster (oneself or a close relative getting seriously ill from this evil disease, having hitherto dodged it,) but it also looks increasingly as if Omicron is going to defeat all the restrictions, so our governments will hopefully recognise the rules as useless and throw them all in the dustbin come springtime.

    I've neither the energy nor the inclination to worry about any of the other problems right now. Leaving aside the fact that one has no influence over any of them, they all fall into the category of 'highly unlikely to happen' (e.g. a hot war with Russia,) 'that which can be ridden out' (e.g. another recession,) 'immaterial to my everyday life' (e.g. the UK travelling another mile or two down the road to breakup,) and/or 'why would anyone care?' (e.g. anything to do with cricket.) I don't know about anyone else, but after the last two years I feel as if my available reserves of angst have all been drained.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    I wouldn't class covid coming from a lab and Corbyn voting leave as conspiracy theories! Perhaps attempts to cover them up could be classes as conspiracies.

    Is it so implausible that the Kennedy's had Marilyn killed? Hint - I'm not saying it was likely.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    On the subject of "Conspiracy Theories", I took a few minutes to rank a few that spring to mind.

    Category A, No chance:

    - World run by liberal elite pedo ring.
    - Moon landings faked.
    - Covid doesn’t exist.
    - The Kennedys killed Marilyn.

    Category B, Possible but on balance no:

    - Oswald didn’t act alone.
    - David Kelly was murdered.
    - Epstein was murdered.
    - Covid came from a lab.
    - Corbyn voted Leave.
    - The Nazis burnt the Reichstag.

    Category C, Probable, in fact almost certainly true:

    - Boris Johnson despite appearances is built like a brick shithouse. He’s almost all muscle.

    My favourite one is that all street pigeons are electronic spies, and that the lockdowns were so that the batteries could be changed.

    Here is a short link to the evidence:

    https://pigeonsarentreal.co.uk/
    Not yet but it is probably coming. In 2004 or thereabouts MacUser magazine ran an April 1 review of a 3d printer. How we all laughed.
    Not pigeons so much as insects, perhaps. Easier to simulate. If there is a sudden population explosion of cockroaches and dragonflies ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited January 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Have a good one Foxy! May you save many lives and minimise the damage of chronic conditions!

    I’m intrigued by your new profile picture. The lion rampant taking the central role; two St Georges, an Irish harp and a Saltire. Bugger the taffs?
    Calling PB vexicologists...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Protector
    Yep. I am definitely a Roundhead!
    Didn’t have you down as a Cromwellian. That See U Next Tuesday invaded, raped and pillaged my country. Used my school as a barracks.

    Tony Benn was a big fan. Another Tuesday chap.
    I am broadly a pacifist, so do not support violence, but Cromwell is an intriguing character, with his politics as interesting as his military skills.

    The wars were complex, and initially the Scots Covernantors were on the side of the English Parliament, before changing sides, as did Monck in the end. Civil wars are almost all very uncivil.
    Big mistake of the Covenanters to try and join up with Charles Stuart the malignant after his dad got the chop. He led them to defeat at Worcester and did them no favours after he gained power. Massacres and murders aplenty in the Killing Times.
    The Covenantors of course allied with the English against the Catholic Mary Queen of Scots and the French too, as the excellent British Library exhibition on Elizabeth and Mary shows
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    The local McDonalds ran out of hash browns this morning. 2022 has already started badly.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Have a good one Foxy! May you save many lives and minimise the damage of chronic conditions!

    I’m intrigued by your new profile picture. The lion rampant taking the central role; two St Georges, an Irish harp and a Saltire. Bugger the taffs?
    Calling PB vexicologists...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Protector
    Yep. I am definitely a Roundhead!
    Didn’t have you down as a Cromwellian. That See U Next Tuesday invaded, raped and pillaged my country. Used my school as a barracks.

    Tony Benn was a big fan. Another Tuesday chap.
    There's a town locally which, at the time, had a major Puritan clergyman, John Owen, as Vicar. Owen, of course went on to much greater things in the Commonwealth and indeed afterwards.
    Time has, as we know moved on, and a historian who lives locally three or four years ago sorted out a talk on Owen. However, the vicar at the time was Anglo-Catholic, insisted on being called 'Father' and so on, and rebuffed him My historian friend was rather hurt.
    Intriguing - Fordham or Oxford, or somewhere else? :smile:

    Very unusual that that sort of mini-spat was happening so recently.
    Old habits die hard, and not just in Norn!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    On the subject of "Conspiracy Theories", I took a few minutes to rank a few that spring to mind.

    Category A, No chance:

    - World run by liberal elite pedo ring.
    - Moon landings faked.
    - Covid doesn’t exist.
    - The Kennedys killed Marilyn.

    Category B, Possible but on balance no:

    - Oswald didn’t act alone.
    - David Kelly was murdered.
    - Epstein was murdered.
    - Covid came from a lab.
    - Corbyn voted Leave.
    - The Nazis burnt the Reichstag.

    Category C, Probable, in fact almost certainly true:

    - Boris Johnson despite appearances is built like a brick shithouse. He’s almost all muscle.

    My favourite one is that all street pigeons are electronic spies, and that the lockdowns were so that the batteries could be changed.

    Here is a short link to the evidence:

    https://pigeonsarentreal.co.uk/
    In Sir Terry Pratchett's Discworld the police force included gargoyles. They did move about but they watched what was going on.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Have a good one Foxy! May you save many lives and minimise the damage of chronic conditions!

    I’m intrigued by your new profile picture. The lion rampant taking the central role; two St Georges, an Irish harp and a Saltire. Bugger the taffs?
    Calling PB vexicologists...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Protector
    Yep. I am definitely a Roundhead!
    Didn’t have you down as a Cromwellian. That See U Next Tuesday invaded, raped and pillaged my country. Used my school as a barracks.

    Tony Benn was a big fan. Another Tuesday chap.
    I am broadly a pacifist, so do not support violence, but Cromwell is an intriguing character, with his politics as interesting as his military skills.

    The wars were complex, and initially the Scots Covernantors were on the side of the English Parliament, before changing sides, as did Monck in the end. Civil wars are almost all very uncivil.
    Big mistake of the Covenanters to try and join up with Charles Stuart the malignant after his dad got the chop. He led them to defeat at Worcester and did them no favours after he gained power. Massacres and murders aplenty in the Killing Times.
    The Covenantors of course allied with the English against Mary Queen of Scots and the French too, as the excellent British Library exhibition on Elizabeth and Mary shows
    Er, there were no Covenanters before 1638.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Have a good one Foxy! May you save many lives and minimise the damage of chronic conditions!

    I’m intrigued by your new profile picture. The lion rampant taking the central role; two St Georges, an Irish harp and a Saltire. Bugger the taffs?
    Calling PB vexicologists...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Protector
    Yep. I am definitely a Roundhead!
    Didn’t have you down as a Cromwellian. That See U Next Tuesday invaded, raped and pillaged my country. Used my school as a barracks.

    Tony Benn was a big fan. Another Tuesday chap.
    I am broadly a pacifist, so do not support violence, but Cromwell is an intriguing character, with his politics as interesting as his military skills.

    The wars were complex, and initially the Scots Covernantors were on the side of the English Parliament, before changing sides, as did Monck in the end. Civil wars are almost all very uncivil.
    Big mistake of the Covenanters to try and join up with Charles Stuart the malignant after his dad got the chop. He led them to defeat at Worcester and did them no favours after he gained power. Massacres and murders aplenty in the Killing Times.
    Yes, and having reflected on @StuartDickson comments, I have changed my profile pic back to my Foxy looking dog.

    I am spiritually rather a Calvinistic Puritan, but not a military one. No offence was intended by my flag pic choice to our Celtic friends. The politics of the wars of the 3 kingdoms show how persistent culture wars can be. Still sensitive topics 350 years later.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited January 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Have a good one Foxy! May you save many lives and minimise the damage of chronic conditions!

    I’m intrigued by your new profile picture. The lion rampant taking the central role; two St Georges, an Irish harp and a Saltire. Bugger the taffs?
    Calling PB vexicologists...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Protector
    Yep. I am definitely a Roundhead!
    Didn’t have you down as a Cromwellian. That See U Next Tuesday invaded, raped and pillaged my country. Used my school as a barracks.

    Tony Benn was a big fan. Another Tuesday chap.
    I am broadly a pacifist, so do not support violence, but Cromwell is an intriguing character, with his politics as interesting as his military skills.

    The wars were complex, and initially the Scots Covernantors were on the side of the English Parliament, before changing sides, as did Monck in the end. Civil wars are almost all very uncivil.
    Big mistake of the Covenanters to try and join up with Charles Stuart the malignant after his dad got the chop. He led them to defeat at Worcester and did them no favours after he gained power. Massacres and murders aplenty in the Killing Times.
    The Covenantors of course allied with the English against Mary Queen of Scots and the French too, as the excellent British Library exhibition on Elizabeth and Mary shows
    Er, there were no Covenanters before 1638.
    They emerged from the Lords of the Congregation ie supporters of John Knox in the mid 16th century against the Catholic Mary Queen of Scots
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724

    I wouldn't class covid coming from a lab and Corbyn voting leave as conspiracy theories! Perhaps attempts to cover them up could be classes as conspiracies.

    Is it so implausible that the Kennedy's had Marilyn killed? Hint - I'm not saying it was likely.

    Jeremy Corbyn was a supporter of Tony Benn, who regarded the then EEC as a capitalist conspiracy and consequently campaigned against it. So wouldn't be surprising if Corbyn's public support for Remain was, at best, lukewarm, and, in the privacy of the ballot box, he did vote Leave.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    I have seen Green Knight now. I remember a chat about which new films worth watching @nigel I think this one you said you enjoyed? I am pleased I watched it. I absolutely loved it at time. Amazing cinematic use of colours and light effects and sound and framing. It was so thoughtfully shot and the edit and pacing it made me think of Tarkovsky very early on.

    But more I think about it, not sure about the writing all by the director. I liked the Winifred bit he added, a good test for a Knight. Although I hate foxes, that was a good idea here, and the acting from the scavenger lad really woke the film up. Where I would be more critical is two fundamental mistakes imo, first, touched on the kisses passing through Gawain between his hosts, but didn’t really have Gawain reciprocating enough to properly explain this as not gay as we know it, if today brought up in Christian household, not understanding a norms in the old days. These days we tend to think of kings and queens and knights in this pre medieval or early medieval period as having a Christian sociology to sex and marriage, not an old Roman one. The fact wives are shared in Arthurian romances like a swingers club, and the knights themselves do a lot of kissing, is for a purpose and the sort of purpose lost in this screenplay and all modern screenplays (unless you can name me one) this script stepping away from this probably says more about the writer understanding of historic chivalry and loyalty not then as is today. second, the writer don’t actually stick to the original point of the story as I understand it, so in that way it got a bit messy. Didn’t show him tricking the Green Knight with secret sash instead of attempted beheaded and being forgiven for it by nick , though it suggested two endings, none of which Morgana clearly shown behind as purpose one where the shame of running away doesn’t work for him, and one unseen where he takes off sash is beheaded? If the original story has a point not stuck to, what’s the new point or is it a film that has lost it?

    Nor did it ever feel as eerie as maybe it should?

    I enjoyed this one and would recommend people give it a go. 🍿
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
    They'll be irrelevant when Lib Dem agent Truss leads the republican revolution.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Have a good one Foxy! May you save many lives and minimise the damage of chronic conditions!

    I’m intrigued by your new profile picture. The lion rampant taking the central role; two St Georges, an Irish harp and a Saltire. Bugger the taffs?
    Calling PB vexicologists...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Protector
    Yep. I am definitely a Roundhead!
    Didn’t have you down as a Cromwellian. That See U Next Tuesday invaded, raped and pillaged my country. Used my school as a barracks.

    Tony Benn was a big fan. Another Tuesday chap.
    I am broadly a pacifist, so do not support violence, but Cromwell is an intriguing character, with his politics as interesting as his military skills.

    The wars were complex, and initially the Scots Covernantors were on the side of the English Parliament, before changing sides, as did Monck in the end. Civil wars are almost all very uncivil.
    Big mistake of the Covenanters to try and join up with Charles Stuart the malignant after his dad got the chop. He led them to defeat at Worcester and did them no favours after he gained power. Massacres and murders aplenty in the Killing Times.
    Yes, and having reflected on @StuartDickson comments, I have changed my profile pic back to my Foxy looking dog.

    I am spiritually rather a Calvinistic Puritan, but not a military one. No offence was intended by my flag pic choice to our Celtic friends. The politics of the wars of the 3 kingdoms show how persistent culture wars can be. Still sensitive topics 350 years later.
    Nice hound!

    Indeed; I was slightly surprised by Dame Davidson's comments, as I said, but no doubt she feels a bit freer, and saying that what Mr Beattie is doing is a good thing is pretty safe. Of course the Irish issue in Scotland is heavily modified by C19 immigration and nativist/sectarian prejudice along Labour vs SCUP lines which TUD, I and others remember all too well and which today goes down like a bucket of cold vomit in most areas of Scottish society. When Slab local councillors tried to polish their unionist credentials by offering grants to the Orange Order a few years back it was very quickly reverse-ferreted and not just because Labour had historically been the party of the Irish/RC (and therefore discriminated against and lower) working classes.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005

    I wouldn't class covid coming from a lab and Corbyn voting leave as conspiracy theories! Perhaps attempts to cover them up could be classes as conspiracies.

    Is it so implausible that the Kennedy's had Marilyn killed? Hint - I'm not saying it was likely.

    Jeremy Corbyn was a supporter of Tony Benn, who regarded the then EEC as a capitalist conspiracy and consequently campaigned against it. So wouldn't be surprising if Corbyn's public support for Remain was, at best, lukewarm, and, in the privacy of the ballot box, he did vote Leave.
    Agree entirely. I just think it's pushing the definition of conspiracy a bit far.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    edited January 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    I remember them, hadn't noticed they had gone, and not bothered if they come back to be added to the laughable black passports list of supposed Brexit benefits.

    Most straight glasses in pubs are of French manufacture, I believe.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,859
    pigeon said:

    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about this year, but that might be because I'm primarily fixated on the desire to see the back of this wretched pandemic and I think we're most of the way there. Winter doesn't look great from the POV of the poor bloody hospitals, and one can never rule out some personal disaster (oneself or a close relative getting seriously ill from this evil disease, having hitherto dodged it,) but it also looks increasingly as if Omicron is going to defeat all the restrictions, so our governments will hopefully recognise the rules as useless and throw them all in the dustbin come springtime.

    I've neither the energy nor the inclination to worry about any of the other problems right now. Leaving aside the fact that one has no influence over any of them, they all fall into the category of 'highly unlikely to happen' (e.g. a hot war with Russia,) 'that which can be ridden out' (e.g. another recession,) 'immaterial to my everyday life' (e.g. the UK travelling another mile or two down the road to breakup,) and/or 'why would anyone care?' (e.g. anything to do with cricket.) I don't know about anyone else, but after the last two years I feel as if my available reserves of angst have all been drained.
    I think you've got to the right place. Lockdowns would still happen if absolutely necessary but the calculus on both the virus and the politics has shifted towards 'live with it'.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,169
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    The joy of miserablist pessimism is that you are rarely disappointed, and occasionally pleasantly surprised.
    Now that’s a motto to live by.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Happy New Year folks!

    Let's hope 2022 is better than 2021. Tories polling 20 points behind will help make this year better of course!

    What Starmer needs to do, to rid the planet of the Tory pest, is to use 2022 to firmly embed PR as official LP policy.
    There was an interesting article on quadratic voting in December in the Economist. Even a sample vote to work on. An interesting idea, even better than AV if such a thing is possible...

    The mathematical method that could offer a fairer way to vote from TheEconomist https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/the-mathematical-method-that-could-offer-a-fairer-way-to-vote

    https://www.economist.com/QuadraticPoll

    My predictions for the New Year? Haven't a clue. Anything could happen and probably will.
    Have a good one Foxy! May you save many lives and minimise the damage of chronic conditions!

    I’m intrigued by your new profile picture. The lion rampant taking the central role; two St Georges, an Irish harp and a Saltire. Bugger the taffs?
    Calling PB vexicologists...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Protector
    Yep. I am definitely a Roundhead!
    Didn’t have you down as a Cromwellian. That See U Next Tuesday invaded, raped and pillaged my country. Used my school as a barracks.

    Tony Benn was a big fan. Another Tuesday chap.
    I am broadly a pacifist, so do not support violence, but Cromwell is an intriguing character, with his politics as interesting as his military skills.

    The wars were complex, and initially the Scots Covernantors were on the side of the English Parliament, before changing sides, as did Monck in the end. Civil wars are almost all very uncivil.
    Big mistake of the Covenanters to try and join up with Charles Stuart the malignant after his dad got the chop. He led them to defeat at Worcester and did them no favours after he gained power. Massacres and murders aplenty in the Killing Times.
    The Covenantors of course allied with the English against Mary Queen of Scots and the French too, as the excellent British Library exhibition on Elizabeth and Mary shows
    Er, there were no Covenanters before 1638.
    They emerged from the Lords of the Congregation ie supporters of John Knox in the mid 16th century against the Catholic Mary Queen of Scots
    No, more complex than that - you;ve got James VI's reign in between. It's worse than saying that Mr Peel was leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party. Because the Covenant was a very specific event in 1638, and signed by all classes - not just a few aristos. You're confusing an aristocratic faction and a popular movement.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    The joy of miserablist pessimism is that you are rarely disappointed, and occasionally pleasantly surprised.
    Now that’s a motto to live by.
    It comes from supporting Leicester City...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    The joy of miserablist pessimism is that you are rarely disappointed, and occasionally pleasantly surprised.
    Now that’s a motto to live by.
    It comes from supporting Leicester City...
    Or indeed the Scottish national football team (the male one).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    Totally and utterly O/t, but I've been trying to donate to the site and the only sum the Donate button seems to accept is £0.00. Which is clearly pointless. Can anyone....OGH, RCS..... point me in another direction, please.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
    They'll be irrelevant when Lib Dem agent Truss leads the republican revolution.
    Ed Davey supports our constitutional monarchy as Liz Truss has now said she does too.

    However Truss may find herself overtaken by Patel amongst Tory members given Truss wants easier migration from India unlike Patel
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I wouldn't class covid coming from a lab and Corbyn voting leave as conspiracy theories! Perhaps attempts to cover them up could be classes as conspiracies.

    Is it so implausible that the Kennedy's had Marilyn killed? Hint - I'm not saying it was likely.

    Jeremy Corbyn was a supporter of Tony Benn, who regarded the then EEC as a capitalist conspiracy and consequently campaigned against it. So wouldn't be surprising if Corbyn's public support for Remain was, at best, lukewarm, and, in the privacy of the ballot box, he did vote Leave.
    Agree entirely. I just think it's pushing the definition of conspiracy a bit far.
    This is my point. There's things that are just unknowable. just about the most unknowable is what someone does in a polling booth, but how someone died in prison cell comes close. Deciding on no grounds that one possibility is right and one not just wrong, but a "conspiracy theory," is perverse.

    Rape is another one. There is no doubt in the entire world that men are wrongly acquitted of it all the time because of the evidential difficulties. The conspiracy theory theorist presumably looks at all those acquittals and thinks Aha! It was only ever a conspiracy theory that he might be guilty.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
    They'll be irrelevant when Lib Dem agent Truss leads the republican revolution.
    Ed Davey supports our constitutional monarchy as Liz Truss has now said she does too.

    However Truss may find herself overtaken by Patel amongst Tory members given Truss wants easier migration from India unlike Patel
    Good morning and happy new year to everyone

    Patel as PM would be worse than Boris and he is on serious notice

    You really cannot really think Patel will unite the nation, she may the right, but I would remind you, you only win power from the centre
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,169
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
    They'll be irrelevant when Lib Dem agent Truss leads the republican revolution.
    Ed Davey supports our constitutional monarchy as Liz Truss has now said she does too.

    However Truss may find herself overtaken by Patel amongst Tory members given Truss wants easier migration from India unlike Patel
    Is immigration still a big issue among Conservative members? Big enough to cost Truss the leadership. Serious question: I assumed that fox had been shot and other things were more salient these days but you usually have your finger on the pulse of these things.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about this year, but that might be because I'm primarily fixated on the desire to see the back of this wretched pandemic and I think we're most of the way there. Winter doesn't look great from the POV of the poor bloody hospitals, and one can never rule out some personal disaster (oneself or a close relative getting seriously ill from this evil disease, having hitherto dodged it,) but it also looks increasingly as if Omicron is going to defeat all the restrictions, so our governments will hopefully recognise the rules as useless and throw them all in the dustbin come springtime.

    I've neither the energy nor the inclination to worry about any of the other problems right now. Leaving aside the fact that one has no influence over any of them, they all fall into the category of 'highly unlikely to happen' (e.g. a hot war with Russia,) 'that which can be ridden out' (e.g. another recession,) 'immaterial to my everyday life' (e.g. the UK travelling another mile or two down the road to breakup,) and/or 'why would anyone care?' (e.g. anything to do with cricket.) I don't know about anyone else, but after the last two years I feel as if my available reserves of angst have all been drained.
    I think you've got to the right place. Lockdowns would still happen if absolutely necessary but the calculus on both the virus and the politics has shifted towards 'live with it'.
    "Live with it" cannot mean ignoring it.

    It needs to involve investment in better ventilation in buildings used by crowds, better management of cross infection risks in hospitals, different ways of working, entertaining and shopping etc. Some of these are relatively modest, and others have major economic and social implications.

    The post pandemic world is not simply a return to 2019, it is an inflexion point in how we live.
    Quite. And how on earth does one approach the modification of existing hospitals with the PFI commitments and with the current estate driven down by selloffs?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    I remember them, hadn't noticed they had gone, and not bothered if they come back to be added to the laughable black passports list of supposed Brexit benefits.

    Most straight glasses in pubs are of French manufacture, I believe.
    kudos to the SNP for not (yet) campaigning for 80 shilling to be sold in measures of a right gude-willy waught.
  • dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    I don't know if Scottish licensing laws are different but pint glasses here are regularly marked as such and have crown stamps. Just checked a Caley 80 shilling glass I got from a beer festival 20 years ago and lo and behold..



    These rsoles are all about confected battles and synthetic victories.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited January 2022

    Hello everyone, hope you had a festive midnight. Astonishingly quiet here in Godalming - literally 4 fireworks and that was it. not so much elsewhere, I gather.

    Meeks on good form - not especially long, just lucid:

    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/the-seven-year-itch-the-new-political-challenge-for-brexit-f5a36b080851

    Thanks.

    A bit of a Curate's Egg imo.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
    They'll be irrelevant when Lib Dem agent Truss leads the republican revolution.
    Ed Davey supports our constitutional monarchy as Liz Truss has now said she does too.

    However Truss may find herself overtaken by Patel amongst Tory members given Truss wants easier migration from India unlike Patel
    Good morning and happy new year to everyone

    Patel as PM would be worse than Boris and he is on serious notice

    You really cannot be serious if you think Patel will unite the nation, she may the right, but I would remind you you only win power from the centre
    Do you think even the average voter let alone the average Tory voter wants easier immigration to the UK from India than is the case now as Truss wants but not Patel? Most of the 52% who voted Leave did so for tighter immigration rules and a points based system for all migrants, not just EU migrants
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
    They are more recent than decimalisation, I have just dug out a 9th Newcastle Beer Festival glass that is crown-stamped. That will be sometime after 1983.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
    They'll be irrelevant when Lib Dem agent Truss leads the republican revolution.
    Ed Davey supports our constitutional monarchy as Liz Truss has now said she does too.

    However Truss may find herself overtaken by Patel amongst Tory members given Truss wants easier migration from India unlike Patel
    Is immigration still a big issue among Conservative members? Big enough to cost Truss the leadership. Serious question: I assumed that fox had been shot and other things were more salient these days but you usually have your finger on the pulse of these things.
    I think this issue could torpedo any Truss bid yes
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
    They'll be irrelevant when Lib Dem agent Truss leads the republican revolution.
    Ed Davey supports our constitutional monarchy as Liz Truss has now said she does too.

    However Truss may find herself overtaken by Patel amongst Tory members given Truss wants easier migration from India unlike Patel
    Good morning and happy new year to everyone

    Patel as PM would be worse than Boris and he is on serious notice

    You really cannot be serious if you think Patel will unite the nation, she may the right, but I would remind you you only win power from the centre
    Do you think even the average voter let alone the average Tory voter wants easier immigration to the UK from India than is the case now as Truss wants but not Patel? Most of the 52% who voted Leave did so for tighter immigration rules and a points based system for all migrants, not just EU migrants
    It depends on the trade deal, and as you do not seem to mind the relaxation in immigration under the Australian deal then you have double standards
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    I don't know if Scottish licensing laws are different but pint glasses here are regularly marked as such and have crown stamps. Just checked a Caley 80 shilling glass I got from a beer festival 20 years ago and lo and behold..



    These rsoles are all about confected battles and synthetic victories.
    Exactly what I was thinking re crown marks - what's all this about??
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    MattW said:

    Hello everyone, hope you had a festive midnight. Astonishingly quiet here in Godalming - literally 4 fireworks and that was it. not so much elsewhere, I gather.

    Meeks on good form - not especially long, just lucid:

    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/the-seven-year-itch-the-new-political-challenge-for-brexit-f5a36b080851

    Thanks.

    A bit of a Curate's Egg imo.
    Hell of a lot of fireworks in my neck of the woods. Maybe the warm weather and the government suggesting people meet more outdoors led to a lot of garden style new year's events?

  • dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    I don't know if Scottish licensing laws are different but pint glasses here are regularly marked as such and have crown stamps. Just checked a Caley 80 shilling glass I got from a beer festival 20 years ago and lo and behold..



    These rsoles are all about confected battles and synthetic victories.
    An 80 Shilling pint glass!? I think that's even more Imperial than my Inch's pint glass!

    https://www.inchscider.co.uk/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    You're probably not old enough to remember them. IIRC they went as part of the decimalisation process, several years before we entered the EEC.
    That was at a time when the policy of the Conservative party was modernisation and accepting the new, rather than looking back wistfully to a golden age when the toffs could do what they liked. Or something.
    They'll be irrelevant when Lib Dem agent Truss leads the republican revolution.
    Ed Davey supports our constitutional monarchy as Liz Truss has now said she does too.

    However Truss may find herself overtaken by Patel amongst Tory members given Truss wants easier migration from India unlike Patel
    Good morning and happy new year to everyone

    Patel as PM would be worse than Boris and he is on serious notice

    You really cannot be serious if you think Patel will unite the nation, she may the right, but I would remind you you only win power from the centre
    Do you think even the average voter let alone the average Tory voter wants easier immigration to the UK from India than is the case now as Truss wants but not Patel? Most of the 52% who voted Leave did so for tighter immigration rules and a points based system for all migrants, not just EU migrants
    It depends on the trade deal, and as you do not seem to mind the relaxation in immigration under the Australian deal then you have double standards
    Australia has a gdp per capita higher than ours. India has a gdp per capita less than a tenth of ours
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    TimS said:

    Happy new year all.

    I can’t remember a new year greeted with such a mixture of trepidation, gloom and resigned pessimism as this one.

    Perhaps I am reading too much into Twitter. But nobody is predicting a glorious year. We’re choosing between Chinese property market collapse, Russian invasion of Ukraine, economic stagflation, a never ending pandemic, and Truss fighting Patel over immigration. And a series whitewash in the ashes.

    I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about this year, but that might be because I'm primarily fixated on the desire to see the back of this wretched pandemic and I think we're most of the way there. Winter doesn't look great from the POV of the poor bloody hospitals, and one can never rule out some personal disaster (oneself or a close relative getting seriously ill from this evil disease, having hitherto dodged it,) but it also looks increasingly as if Omicron is going to defeat all the restrictions, so our governments will hopefully recognise the rules as useless and throw them all in the dustbin come springtime.

    I've neither the energy nor the inclination to worry about any of the other problems right now. Leaving aside the fact that one has no influence over any of them, they all fall into the category of 'highly unlikely to happen' (e.g. a hot war with Russia,) 'that which can be ridden out' (e.g. another recession,) 'immaterial to my everyday life' (e.g. the UK travelling another mile or two down the road to breakup,) and/or 'why would anyone care?' (e.g. anything to do with cricket.) I don't know about anyone else, but after the last two years I feel as if my available reserves of angst have all been drained.
    I think you've got to the right place. Lockdowns would still happen if absolutely necessary but the calculus on both the virus and the politics has shifted towards 'live with it'.
    "Live with it" cannot mean ignoring it.

    It needs to involve investment in better ventilation in buildings used by crowds, better management of cross infection risks in hospitals, different ways of working, entertaining and shopping etc. Some of these are relatively modest, and others have major economic and social implications.

    The post pandemic world is not simply a return to 2019, it is an inflexion point in how we live.
    Quite. And how on earth does one approach the modification of existing hospitals with the PFI commitments and with the current estate driven down by selloffs?
    I think one reason for the problems with hospital acquired covid in the UK is their overcrowded nature. Wards are generally in 6 bedded bays, outpatients and emergency depts crowded with seating. Most developed countries use single rooms, and most specialists run outpatient clinics from practices in shopping centres and the like, only using hospitals for inpatient work.

    It is the model that we are fumbling slowly towards, but a long way to go yet.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    edited January 2022

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    I don't know if Scottish licensing laws are different but pint glasses here are regularly marked as such and have crown stamps. Just checked a Caley 80 shilling glass I got from a beer festival 20 years ago and lo and behold..



    These rsoles are all about confected battles and synthetic victories.
    An 80 Shilling pint glass!? I think that's even more Imperial than my Inch's pint glass!

    https://www.inchscider.co.uk/
    Old name for a grade of beer, actually, not the glass; there might be 70/- and 80/- in the same way as the number of xxxxs reflected the grade of beer. Hence Wadworth 6X and Belhaven 80/-. TUD's Caley 80/- glass is obviously a promotional one - the point being that the Scots origin is clear from the beer being promoted.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,859
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    On the subject of "Conspiracy Theories", I took a few minutes to rank a few that spring to mind.

    Category A, No chance:

    - World run by liberal elite pedo ring.
    - Moon landings faked.
    - Covid doesn’t exist.
    - The Kennedys killed Marilyn.

    Category B, Possible but on balance no:

    - Oswald didn’t act alone.
    - David Kelly was murdered.
    - Epstein was murdered.
    - Covid came from a lab.
    - Corbyn voted Leave.
    - The Nazis burnt the Reichstag.

    Category C, Probable, in fact almost certainly true:

    - Boris Johnson despite appearances is built like a brick shithouse. He’s almost all muscle.

    B and C are not conspiracy theories.
    True. Hence why I put inverteds around the phrase. But what I'd more say is that some of these aren't *necessarily* CTs. Depends on how they are propounded. Eg, I've seen some very elaborate stories spun around the Kelly death that cross into CT territory. Cf with raising material doubt about the suicide which don't. And of course CT doesn't mean false or even unlikely, although most CTs are those things.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997
    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy New Year. I'm hoping this year will be the year we finally get back to the cheerful optimistic of the 1990s.

    That will require a large number of people - including many in the media - to let go of Brexit. They still think that Brexit has doomed us to perpetual pessimism....
    Looking forward to Boris and the Tories saying we can forget about Brexit.
    Oh, I think they are increasingly keen on the voters forgetting the polished turd that is Brexit.
    You obviously didn't hear the PM'S New Year message then.
    Am I the only one who wasn't aware there were ever crown stamps on pint glasses?
    I don't know if Scottish licensing laws are different but pint glasses here are regularly marked as such and have crown stamps. Just checked a Caley 80 shilling glass I got from a beer festival 20 years ago and lo and behold..



    These rsoles are all about confected battles and synthetic victories.
    Exactly what I was thinking re crown marks - what's all this about??
    At some point they were replaced by CE marks.
This discussion has been closed.