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  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Max for CotE...

    I make that an 11% rise ? £6.31 to £7.00.

    Significant.

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Neil said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: George Osborne has just shot Ed Miliband's fox, dog, cat, goldfish and chihuahua.

    Dan thinks something is bad news for Ed? Glad he shared that with us. I was wondering what his view might be.

    In this case he's right. Labour are becoming the 'party of the gaps' (see god of the gaps for the analogy).

    Each forward step the coalition make is a backwards one for the labour...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Scott_P said:

    George Osborne proposes rise in minimum wage

    Great news.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,348
    TGOHF said:

    Max for CotE...

    I make that an 11% rise ? £6.31 to £7.00.

    Significant.

    How much does that obviate the need for additional benefits? Any idea?

  • Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: George Osborne has just shot Ed Miliband's fox, dog, cat, goldfish and chihuahua.

    I like Dan Hodges, he's thoughtful and writes well.......but, he really, really dislikes Ed Milliband, so it's hard to take that tweet as if it has any importance!

  • Neil said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: George Osborne has just shot Ed Miliband's fox, dog, cat, goldfish and chihuahua.

    Dan thinks something is bad news for Ed? Glad he shared that with us. I was wondering what his view might be.

    Whoever would have thought it? But it is good to see the Chancellor acknowledging that corporate Britain can and should make a greater contribution to improving living standards.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,629
    Socrates said:

    @rcs1000

    Aren't you from Hampstead? I would have thought you had more in common with Clapham than Wembley...

    I'm mostly just jokingly pointing out the tyranny of small differences :-)

    We in Hampstead are desperate to free ourselves from the socialist yoke of Camden Council.

    I would have thought a Hampstead independence party would poll rather well here.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    What is crazy to me is that Ed didn't bang on about this rather than the market share of banks.

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779

    Neil said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: George Osborne has just shot Ed Miliband's fox, dog, cat, goldfish and chihuahua.

    Dan thinks something is bad news for Ed? Glad he shared that with us. I was wondering what his view might be.

    Whoever would have thought it? But it is good to see the Chancellor acknowledging that corporate Britain can and should make a greater contribution to improving living standards.

    That's always been the tory position though. That increases in the minimum wage are feasible when there isn't a signifigant threat to the economy.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    What is the Kipper position on the minimum wage ?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    What is crazy to me is that Ed didn't bang on about this rather than the market share of banks.

    Labour policy has been to reverse the real term reductions to the minimum wage implemented by the Coalition.

    Good on the Tories for finally seeming to accept how wrong they were to oppose the minimum wage.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    It's not always been the Tory position...

    Anyway it's a good move for people on low pay whatever the politics.

    Ed's missed a trick here but I don't think it is terrible for Labour - though hold on did the minimum wage keep pace with inflation during Labour's time...

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Food for thought on that one.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: George Osborne has just shot Ed Miliband's fox, dog, cat, goldfish and chihuahua.

    Dan thinks something is bad news for Ed? Glad he shared that with us. I was wondering what his view might be.

    Whoever would have thought it? But it is good to see the Chancellor acknowledging that corporate Britain can and should make a greater contribution to improving living standards.

    That's always been the tory position though. That increases in the minimum wage are feasible when there isn't a signifigant threat to the economy.
    Not "always"!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    What is crazy to me is that Ed didn't bang on about this rather than the market share of banks.

    Labour policy has been to reverse the real term reductions to the minimum wage implemented by the Coalition.

    Good on the Tories for finally seeming to accept how wrong they were to oppose the minimum wage.
    It might have been but he didn't bang on about it - he did occasionally mention "the living wage" - but nobody had a clue what that meant.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 4m

    Labour should say "Good. We welcome it". But they won;t. They'll say "Our idea". Making Ed look like the John Terry of Westminster.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I wonder if the flip side of this coin is a reduction in the £26,000 benefit cap to say £20,000.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Pulpstar said:


    Ed's missed a trick here but I don't think it is terrible for Labour - though hold on did the minimum wage keep pace with inflation during Labour's time...

    (1) Labour has been campaigning to increase the minimum wage (2) Yes, the minimum wage was increased by substantially more than inflation from when Labour introduced it to when they left power (compared to below inflation increases to date under the Coalition).
  • Neil said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: George Osborne has just shot Ed Miliband's fox, dog, cat, goldfish and chihuahua.

    Dan thinks something is bad news for Ed? Glad he shared that with us. I was wondering what his view might be.

    Whoever would have thought it? But it is good to see the Chancellor acknowledging that corporate Britain can and should make a greater contribution to improving living standards.

    That's always been the tory position though. That increases in the minimum wage are feasible when there isn't a signifigant threat to the economy.

    No, the Tories initially opposed the minimum wage and many still argue that it does a lot more harm than good - I've seen this view expressed on here any number of times by many right of centre posters. But clearly George understands the potency of the whole cost of living debate and so has decided to agree with Labour and the unions on the need for an above inflation rise. That is a good thing, even if it has been done for politically expedient reasons.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    If anything it is Cable who should feel aggrieved by any minimum wage announcement. He was the one who originally asked the Low Page Commission to look at increases in excess of inflation while Osborne was against it and now George gets to announce the policy he had resisted until recently.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    NMW increase:

    A PB poster floated this as a possibility before the Autumn statement, and went into some detail. I'd like to re-read that post if possible, can anyone remember who it was?

    I'd also like to congratulate him.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited January 2014
    Won't quite be a 11% rise - more like two rises of 5% to get to £7 by 2015 apparently.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    Won't quite be a 10% rise - more like two rises of 5% to get to £7 by 2015 apparently.

    So touch and go on whether it will have even kept pace with inflation over the course of the Coalition Government's term.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Won't quite be a 10% rise - more like two rises of 5% to get to £7 by 2015 apparently.

    So touch and go on whether it will have even kept pace with inflation over the course of the Coalition Government's term.

    Labour will complain that is is not going far or fast enough.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Won't quite be a 10% rise - more like two rises of 5% to get to £7 by 2015 apparently.

    So touch and go on whether it will have even kept pace with inflation over the course of the Coalition Government's term.

    Will be a significant rise over benefits on the same period .
  • Neil said:

    If anything it is Cable who should feel aggrieved by any minimum wage announcement. He was the one who originally asked the Low Page Commission to look at increases in excess of inflation while Osborne was against it and now George gets to announce the policy he had resisted until recently.

    It is all rather transparent. It will cheer up the Tories, but I am not sure it will shift many Labour or LD votes to them. Much more important, though, the cost of living debate initiated by Ed has now seen the government forced into taking action on energy bills and the Tories supporting British businesses paying low earners more. In the great scheme if things that is excellent news. And, no doubt, we'll see more of the same over the coming months.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: The genius of Tory proposal for £7 minimum wage by 2015 is that the Low Pay Commission could still reject it - but Conservatives get credit
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    I welcome the increase. Expect more moves to park Coalition tanks on Labour's lawn, especially where the policy looks popular and/or (as here) helps counter the "they're only in it for the rich" notion.

    Labour has SERIOUSLY misjudged how much Cameron and Osborne want to stay in power. Expect much of the next 12 months to be about chiseling away at any residual argument for voting Labour.

    2015 will be all about "Labour - why would you take the risk?"
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Much more important, though, the cost of living debate initiated by Ed has now seen the government forced into taking action on energy bills and the Tories supporting British businesses paying low earners more.

    @DPJHodges I hope you all realise the reason the sun was shining yesterday was because Labour were setting the weather agenda.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I would have thought that the announcement on the minimum wage would be more helpful in attracting UKIP waverers than in sabotaging Ed Miliband. But what do I know?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @joeyjonessky Best way for Labour (+and libdems) to neutralise @George_Osborne 's delight at stealing a march probably to welcome it (thru gritted teeth)

    @DPJHodges Labour should say "Good. We welcome it". But they won;t. They'll say "Our idea". Making Ed look like the John Terry of Westminster.

    @DPJHodges Or say. "Well, we'd make it £8". Which would be even more ludicrous. On second thoughts, my money's on £8.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Pulpstar said:

    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Won't quite be a 10% rise - more like two rises of 5% to get to £7 by 2015 apparently.

    So touch and go on whether it will have even kept pace with inflation over the course of the Coalition Government's term.

    Labour will complain that is is not going far or fast enough.
    Get with the program!

    Too far too fast!
    Double Dip!
    Triple Dip!
    One Nation!
    Cost of Living Crisis!
    Cost of Gym Membership Crisis!


    Squeezed Middle

    Oh.......

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I think Dan has missed it - there will be no more talk of the minimum wage - just the "living wage" or perhaps a "poverty wage" - at £12 an hour..
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Spectator_CH Osborne rains on Miliband’s parade with wage announcement http://specc.ie/1dyYzBA
  • Scott_P said:

    Much more important, though, the cost of living debate initiated by Ed has now seen the government forced into taking action on energy bills and the Tories supporting British businesses paying low earners more.

    @DPJHodges I hope you all realise the reason the sun was shining yesterday was because Labour were setting the weather agenda.

    Well, obviously Dan hates the fact that the Tories have again been forced to dance to Ed's tune, but we are where we are. And the good news is that many seriously struggling, hardworking people are going to see some benefit. What's not to like?

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Such cynicism in one so young!

    What an odd coincidence that on the eve of what’s being billed as a major economic speech by Ed Miliband, George Osborne sticks up his periscope and makes a big fat announcement on the minimum wage.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/01/osborne-rains-on-milibands-parade-with-wage-announcement/
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Every Labour announcement is a disaster, every Tory one a triumph - how on earth did the Tories not win the last GE when they are this good?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Well, obviously Dan hates the fact that the Tories have again been forced to dance to Ed's tune, but we are where we are. And the good news is that many seriously struggling, hardworking people are going to see some benefit. What's not to like?

    None so blind...

    @ShippersUnbound Many seem to be claiming credit for first revealing Tory plans for minimum wage rise. The glory goes to @BBCAllegra who had it last Sept
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Scott_P said:


    Well, obviously Dan hates the fact that the Tories have again been forced to dance to Ed's tune, but we are where we are. And the good news is that many seriously struggling, hardworking people are going to see some benefit. What's not to like?

    None so blind...

    @ShippersUnbound Many seem to be claiming credit for first revealing Tory plans for minimum wage rise. The glory goes to @BBCAllegra who had it last Sept
    Do you think she got it from this:

    http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/media-centre/in-the-news/category/item/tories-could-raise-minimum-wage-in-effort-to-dispel-their-image-as-the-party-of-the-rich
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Neil said:

    Every Labour announcement is a disaster, every Tory one a triumph - how on earth did the Tories not win the last GE when they are this good?

    I'm expecting a very good speech by Ed Miliband tomorrow.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited January 2014
    What a pleasure to see the anti-Osborne crowd so ill at ease and desperate.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Neil said:



    Do you think she got it from this:

    Are you suggesting it didn't come from Ed Miliband? PB Kinnock Heresy...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Neil said:

    Every Labour announcement is a disaster, every Tory one a triumph - how on earth did the Tories not win the last GE when they are this good?

    As Isabel Hardman points out, Labour can make as many 'announcements' as they like....and nothing changes....the government is in power for the next 15 months and will be emphasising the difference.....

    Meanwhile what's happened to Ed's MEGA CONFERENCE two hour meeting on the relationship with the Unions?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Small lay of the draw in Lanka-Pakistan.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Meanwhile what's happened to Ed's MEGA CONFERENCE two hour meeting on the relationship with the Unions?

    Ed's "fight" with Len can only be good news for Ed. repeat to fade...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Tim_Wallace TUC backs Osborne on the minimum wage, CBI opposes him. The topsy turvy world of policies designed to get one over Labour.
  • Scott_P said:

    Neil said:



    Do you think she got it from this:

    Are you suggesting it didn't come from Ed Miliband? PB Kinnock Heresy...

    From a possible 2015 manifesto commitment, to an announcement by the Chancellor at the beginning of 2014. Well done Ed.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Scott_P said:

    Neil said:



    Do you think she got it from this:

    Are you suggesting it didn't come from Ed Miliband? PB Kinnock Heresy...
    Er. are you trying to imply that Labour hasnt been ahead of the Tories on introducing and increasing the minimum wage?! Good luck with that.

    So the Tories have come around to reversing their real terms cuts to the minimum wage, if they manage to spin that as radical then fair play to them but we know better, dont we?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Scott_P said:


    Meanwhile what's happened to Ed's MEGA CONFERENCE two hour meeting on the relationship with the Unions?

    Ed's "fight" with Len can only be good news for Ed. repeat to fade...
    It's a Victory for Ed!

    Where could he have got that (cough...EU...sterling zone...tuition fees...) from?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Neil said:



    Er. are you trying to imply that Labour hasnt been ahead of the Tories on introducing and increasing the minimum wage?! Good luck with that.

    So the Tories have come around to reversing their real terms cuts to the minimum wage, if they manage to spin that as radical then fair play to them but we know better, dont we?

    @PeterMannionMP I hope you are all aware that absolutely anything worthwhile the Coalition Government does is down to Ed Miliband?

    (Yes, I know he's a spoof...)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Oh dear

    @ChukaUmunna Non-announcement by George Osborne on the minimum wage.Voted against our motion to restore the value of it yesterday and now says he agrees
  • Neil said:

    Scott_P said:

    Neil said:



    Do you think she got it from this:

    Are you suggesting it didn't come from Ed Miliband? PB Kinnock Heresy...
    Er. are you trying to imply that Labour hasnt been ahead of the Tories on introducing and increasing the minimum wage?! Good luck with that.

    So the Tories have come around to reversing their real terms cuts to the minimum wage, if they manage to spin that as radical then fair play to them but we know better, dont we?

    It is a bit too obvious and for that reason will not convince anyone but Tory cheerleaders. But if the low paid benefit for a change after the hammering they have taken over recent years, why does that matter?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937


    From a possible 2015 manifesto commitment, to an announcement by the Chancellor at the beginning of 2014. Well done Ed.

    The difference is that Osborne has earned credibility so can announce this without spooking Mister Market. Labour? Not so much...

    What other Labour policies would you like Osborne to implement? Oh that's right - Labour hasn't actually got any policies...

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GeorgeWParker Osborne's Min Wage move a classic: trying to spoil Miliband's big day, steal Vince's clothes and having a swipe at his old mate IDS. mf
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited January 2014
    Osborne's announcement strikes me as being a typical bit of modern politics. An announcement designed to make everyone think some action is being taken when in fact none is.

    He has said he would like to see something happen, not that he is going to make it happen or even that it will happen. It is not even in his gift or remit - the level of the minimum wage is set by the Low Pay Commission.

    Just another example of spin standing in for delivery.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul Ahem. @George_Osborne doesn't set the min wage. He's just going to ask the *independent* Low Pay Commission nicely. We all know that.

    @PeterMannionMP @JohnRentoul Don't you follow any Labour MPs? ED MILIBAND set the new Minimum Wage.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @Scott_P

    John Rentoul is talking bollocks isn't he? The Low Pay Commission just make a recommendation for the government. HMG can do what it likes.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    antifrank said:

    I'm disappointed that Labour haven't yet gone longer than 1/8 in Wythenshawe & Sale. Could the UKIPpers please put more of their money where their mouths are?

    Ive backed Labour at 2/11 and UKIP at 12s if that helps
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    Betting Question:

    I've netted over £450 off my last ~ 14 bets with Victor (~ £120 staked). Obviously I've had losers elsewhere but on a scale of 1-Victor how likely is the account to go up the swanny ?

    They wont close it if you are betting less than £50 a pop
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    I would guess that all those posters on here who have said at great length that the minimum wage is a bad thing and how it costs thousands of jobs will now call for Osborne to be sacked .
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul Ahem. @George_Osborne doesn't set the min wage.

    The Government he is a member of does. The LPC's recommendations do not have to be accepted (and they havent always been in the past).
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2014

    Mr. Eagles, if a bookie closes your account, what's to stop you just opening a new one?

    Some people use a beard.

    However it is difficult, as when you need to transfer money from your bank card to your bookie online account they ask for your address and postcode for the payment to go through, it theoretically flags up at the bookies that someone at an address at previously closed account is active again so they close down your new account.

    There's nothing stopping you going to that bookies shop however.
    Get a mate to set up a bank account, send some money over and hey presto! A new set of betting accs!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Unite the union ‏@unitetheunion 4m
    McCluskey: “Hints of a rise in min wage will do nothing for millions of ordinary working people gripped by Osborne’s cost of living crisis”

  • From a possible 2015 manifesto commitment, to an announcement by the Chancellor at the beginning of 2014. Well done Ed.

    The difference is that Osborne has earned credibility so can announce this without spooking Mister Market. Labour? Not so much...

    What other Labour policies would you like Osborne to implement? Oh that's right - Labour hasn't actually got any policies...

    Well, they have already had a go at lowering energy bills. But when policies are stolen, you can see why oppositions do not like to announce them. If there were one policy I'd like to see reviewed, though, it would be the Bedroom Tax. I am not sure what Labour's position is on that as I am not a Labour member (or even a firm supporter).

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    I would guess that all those posters on here who have said at great length that the minimum wage is a bad thing and how it costs thousands of jobs will now call for Osborne to be sacked .

    That's the key thing to take from this announcement - perhaps.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    F1: coup against Whitmarsh. Dennis seizes control of McLaren:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/25766407
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Whatever happened to pre-distribution? Miliband made a speech on it once and then the idea seemed to sink without trace?

    Why not set the minimum wage equal to the living wage (currently £7.65 and £8.80 in London)?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    The national minimum wage is another example of poor intervention by the state. I would prefer that Osborne ended it.

    Endless meddling from interventionist Conservatives did a great deal to screw up the economy in the 60s, it is a pity Osborne hasn't learned from their mistakes.
  • dr_spyn said:

    The national minimum wage is another example of poor intervention by the state. I would prefer that Osborne ended it.

    Endless meddling from interventionist Conservatives did a great deal to screw up the economy in the 60s, it is a pity Osborne hasn't learned from their mistakes.

    I suppose you'd like him to re-introduce slavery as well, it would boost the economy.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937


    Well, they have already had a go at lowering energy bills. But when policies are stolen, you can see why oppositions do not like to announce them. If there were one policy I'd like to see reviewed, though, it would be the Bedroom Tax. I am not sure what Labour's position is on that as I am not a Labour member (or even a firm supporter).

    By having a go at lowering energy prices, the Coalition have already shown more ambition than Ed, whose aim was a freeze. In 2015.


  • Well, they have already had a go at lowering energy bills. But when policies are stolen, you can see why oppositions do not like to announce them. If there were one policy I'd like to see reviewed, though, it would be the Bedroom Tax. I am not sure what Labour's position is on that as I am not a Labour member (or even a firm supporter).

    By having a go at lowering energy prices, the Coalition have already shown more ambition than Ed, whose aim was a freeze. In 2015.

    That may well be the case. But there is only one reason why they did it. But who cares? They did do it.

  • dr_spyn said:

    The national minimum wage is another example of poor intervention by the state. I would prefer that Osborne ended it.

    Endless meddling from interventionist Conservatives did a great deal to screw up the economy in the 60s, it is a pity Osborne hasn't learned from their mistakes.

    I suppose you'd like him to re-introduce slavery as well, it would boost the economy.

    Well, the fact that the libertarians on this site aren't entitled to enslave the rest of us (who, after, they consider to be either mentally ill, morally wicked or both at once) is certainly a gross infringement on their freedom which, when all's said and done, is the only freedom that matters. To them.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Betting Question:

    I've netted over £450 off my last ~ 14 bets with Victor (~ £120 staked). Obviously I've had losers elsewhere but on a scale of 1-Victor how likely is the account to go up the swanny ?

    They wont close it if you are betting less than £50 a pop
    Stan James bloody did !
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    F1: team principal announcement should be next month, I think. Joe Saward suggests Ross Brawn *might* get the gig:
    http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/13806/
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    This thread throws up just what is wrong with this country. What the heck has happened to us? What other nation in the world has such a loathing for their own land? Its almost as if you're ashamed to call yourselves English.
    Cecil Rhodes had the right of it.
    I'm praying for Scottish Independence, even more so now, as that hastens the day that you'll have to put English on your passports!

    Well said mr TFS.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'Brighton and Hove council to hold £230k referendum on planned 4.75% council tax rise.'

    Any odds on the outcome of that?

    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10942838.Brighton_and_Hove_council_to_hold___230k_referendum_on_planned_4_75__council_tax_rise/?ref=twtrec
  • George "Pay the poor more" Osborne;
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25759109
    Best CotE I've seen.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @dlknowles: My feed is full of Labour people sniping about the fact that the Chancellor wants to raise the minimum wage. Not sure it works...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471


    From a possible 2015 manifesto commitment, to an announcement by the Chancellor at the beginning of 2014. Well done Ed.

    The difference is that Osborne has earned credibility so can announce this without spooking Mister Market. Labour? Not so much...

    What other Labour policies would you like Osborne to implement? Oh that's right - Labour hasn't actually got any policies...

    Well, they have already had a go at lowering energy bills. But when policies are stolen, you can see why oppositions do not like to announce them. If there were one policy I'd like to see reviewed, though, it would be the Bedroom Tax. I am not sure what Labour's position is on that as I am not a Labour member (or even a firm supporter).

    The coalition's policy on energy prices is very different (and more sensible) than Miliband's proposal, which was, frankly, insane. They haven't followed Miliband: they've sailed their own course, hopefully away from the rocks.

    Miliband's in the unfortunate position that if the price cap was such a good thing to do, he could have done it - or at least proposed it - himself a little over three years ago. There was not a peep about it when he was in charge at DECC. Instead, he is on record as saying increased prices were inevitable. (1)

    Goodness knows what that would have meant for the cost of living crisis.

    We all know why: he was too busy listening to advice on energy policy from Z-list celebrities.

    (1):http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/5832429/Energy-bills-will-rise-in-low-carbon-economy-admits-Ed-Miliband.html
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @MonikerDiCanio

    Incomes policies failed in the 60s and 70s and NMW is another piece of interventionist nonsense. Wage levels should be set by the markets and not by half witted politicians. Government intervention all too often leads to new government failures. It is the sort of daft stunt which Brown would have pulled.

    As for the living wage, if it looks like and sounds like organic bovine waste, then it probably is bovine organic waste.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098


    Well, they have already had a go at lowering energy bills. But when policies are stolen, you can see why oppositions do not like to announce them. If there were one policy I'd like to see reviewed, though, it would be the Bedroom Tax. I am not sure what Labour's position is on that as I am not a Labour member (or even a firm supporter).

    By having a go at lowering energy prices, the Coalition have already shown more ambition than Ed, whose aim was a freeze. In 2015.

    That may well be the case. But there is only one reason why they did it. But who cares? They did do it.

    Mr. Observer, If your thesis that Miliband only needs to announce a plan for the Coalition to adopt it holds, then perhaps its time for Miliband to dust of his pre-distribution speech. Let us cut the welfare bill but cutting the need for welfare and in the process stop companies making profits on the back of taxpayer subsidies. Of course there will a price to be paid in terms of higher prices and higher unemployment, but we heard all that when the minimum wage was introduced.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Carola said:

    'Brighton and Hove council to hold £230k referendum on planned 4.75% council tax rise.'

    Any odds on the outcome of that?

    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10942838.Brighton_and_Hove_council_to_hold___230k_referendum_on_planned_4_75__council_tax_rise/?ref=twtrec

    Isn't that a contradiction in terms? Or maybe a tautology?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The amount the UK pays to subsidize the low paid is very high. I;ve seen graphs that show that some minimum wage workers earn as much as people on much higher salaries, when working welfare is taken into account.

    Osborne's only option is to make companies paying the minimum wage (some of which pay very little UK corporate taxation anyway) take a little more of the strain.

    Given he's slashing corporate taxation, that is OK, so long as it doesn't go too far, I would have thought.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @cathynewman Tonight on #c4news another senior Lib Dem woman goes public on allegations she too was inappropriately touched by Lord Rennard
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    dr_spyn said:

    The national minimum wage is another example of poor intervention by the state. I would prefer that Osborne ended it.

    Endless meddling from interventionist Conservatives did a great deal to screw up the economy in the 60s, it is a pity Osborne hasn't learned from their mistakes.

    I suppose you'd like him to re-introduce slavery as well, it would boost the economy.

    Slavery is a hindrance on an economy, for all sorts of reasons.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    taffys said:

    The amount the UK pays to subsidize the low paid is very high. I;ve seen graphs that show that some minimum wage workers earn as much as people on much higher salaries, when working welfare is taken into account.

    Osborne's only option is to make companies paying the minimum wage (some of which pay very little UK corporate taxation anyway) take a little more of the strain.

    Given he's slashing corporate taxation, that is OK, so long as it doesn't go too far, I would have thought.

    I think you have it spot on Mr Taffys. Too many companies have been running their businesses on the basis of taxpayer subsidies for too long.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited January 2014
    Carola said:

    'Brighton and Hove council to hold £230k referendum on planned 4.75% council tax rise.'

    Any odds on the outcome of that?

    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10942838.Brighton_and_Hove_council_to_hold___230k_referendum_on_planned_4_75__council_tax_rise/?ref=twtrec


    There are in fact 5 precedents of referenda on council tax increases . In 4 cases a large majority voted for the lowest increase offered . Milton Keynes in 1999 , however , voted in favour of the middle option of 15%/9.8% and 5% .
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    I really don't think the left can paint this is their win, Ed was talking about voluntary incentives for the "living wage" which is completely different to a mass raising of the minimum wage. I haven't heard a single mention of the minimum wage from Ed or the other Ed for a long time. It fell off Labour's agenda for some reason while the concentrated a fringe issue like the living wage.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Too many companies have been running their businesses on the basis of taxpayer subsidies for too long. ''

    I doubt most of Britain's key, world class companies employ that many minimum wage workers anyway.

    Some costs to businesses will rise, but if it means we get a few more quid out of certain coffee, burger and pizza chains, I guess we can wear it.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    MaxPB said:

    I really don't think the left can paint this is their win, Ed was talking about voluntary incentives for the "living wage" which is completely different to a mass raising of the minimum wage. I haven't heard a single mention of the minimum wage from Ed or the other Ed for a long time. It fell off Labour's agenda for some reason while the concentrated a fringe issue like the living wage.

    Yeah, that would have been much more credible if Labour hadnt devoted their opposition day debate to raising the minimum wage. Yesterday. Nice try though.

  • From a possible 2015 manifesto commitment, to an announcement by the Chancellor at the beginning of 2014. Well done Ed.

    The difference is that Osborne has earned credibility so can announce this without spooking Mister Market. Labour? Not so much...

    What other Labour policies would you like Osborne to implement? Oh that's right - Labour hasn't actually got any policies...

    Well, they have already had a go at lowering energy bills. But when policies are stolen, you can see why oppositions do not like to announce them. If there were one policy I'd like to see reviewed, though, it would be the Bedroom Tax. I am not sure what Labour's position is on that as I am not a Labour member (or even a firm supporter).

    The coalition's policy on energy prices is very different (and more sensible) than Miliband's proposal, which was, frankly, insane. They haven't followed Miliband: they've sailed their own course, hopefully away from the rocks.

    Miliband's in the unfortunate position that if the price cap was such a good thing to do, he could have done it - or at least proposed it - himself a little over three years ago. There was not a peep about it when he was in charge at DECC. Instead, he is on record as saying increased prices were inevitable. (1)

    Goodness knows what that would have meant for the cost of living crisis.

    We all know why: he was too busy listening to advice on energy policy from Z-list celebrities.

    (1):http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/5832429/Energy-bills-will-rise-in-low-carbon-economy-admits-Ed-Miliband.html

    The Coalition's policy may well be more effective and more sensible. But we only got it because EdM raised the issue. Today's announcement from Osborne is also directly connected to the cost of living debate that Miliband started. I am not particularly interested in who introduces policies that benefit the lowest paid, I am much more interested in them being put into practice. If it is the Tories doing it because they feel that EdM has struck a chord that is fine by me. Obviously, looking at the politics of it - the Tories will hope to persuade voters that they are genuinely exercised by the fate of those on the minimum wage. We will see if they are successful in that.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2014
    If the minimum wage had not been introduced, the going rate for unskilled jobs would be about 50% higher than it is in Poland
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Scott_P said:

    @cathynewman Tonight on #c4news another senior Lib Dem woman goes public on allegations she too was inappropriately touched by Lord Rennard

    I wonder if this is to be Rennard's fate - death by a thousand cuts? A prospect which should fill the LibDems with dread.


  • Well, they have already had a go at lowering energy bills. But when policies are stolen, you can see why oppositions do not like to announce them. If there were one policy I'd like to see reviewed, though, it would be the Bedroom Tax. I am not sure what Labour's position is on that as I am not a Labour member (or even a firm supporter).

    By having a go at lowering energy prices, the Coalition have already shown more ambition than Ed, whose aim was a freeze. In 2015.

    That may well be the case. But there is only one reason why they did it. But who cares? They did do it.

    Mr. Observer, If your thesis that Miliband only needs to announce a plan for the Coalition to adopt it holds, then perhaps its time for Miliband to dust of his pre-distribution speech. Let us cut the welfare bill but cutting the need for welfare and in the process stop companies making profits on the back of taxpayer subsidies. Of course there will a price to be paid in terms of higher prices and higher unemployment, but we heard all that when the minimum wage was introduced.

    Some Tories, such as Boris, are already getting there on pre-distribution. The chancellor will do so eventually because that is where the politics of it all is heading - as today's move by Osborne indicates.

  • taffys said:

    ''Too many companies have been running their businesses on the basis of taxpayer subsidies for too long. ''

    I doubt most of Britain's key, world class companies employ that many minimum wage workers anyway.

    Some costs to businesses will rise, but if it means we get a few more quid out of certain coffee, burger and pizza chains, I guess we can wear it.

    But will you? Won't they just use more agency staff on zero hour contracts to offset the additional cost?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Betting Question:

    I've netted over £450 off my last ~ 14 bets with Victor (~ £120 staked). Obviously I've had losers elsewhere but on a scale of 1-Victor how likely is the account to go up the swanny ?

    They wont close it if you are betting less than £50 a pop
    Stan James bloody did !
    Really??? Were you playing them against Betfair?

    Most bookmakers are hypocritical cowards
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Scott_P said:

    @cathynewman Tonight on #c4news another senior Lib Dem woman goes public on allegations she too was inappropriately touched by Lord Rennard

    I wonder if this is to be Rennard's fate - death by a thousand cuts? A prospect which should fill the LibDems with dread.

    C4 just broadcast an interview with one of Rennard's apologists "it's the sort off thing that goes on all the time"

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Scott_P said:

    @cathynewman Tonight on #c4news another senior Lib Dem woman goes public on allegations she too was inappropriately touched by Lord Rennard

    I wonder if this is to be Rennard's fate - death by a thousand cuts? A prospect which should fill the LibDems with dread.

    C4 just broadcast an interview with one of Rennard's apologists "it's the sort off thing that goes on all the time"

    This is really not a good look for the Lib Dems. It would be better for them to get a grip on it.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "I doubt most of Britain's key, world class companies employ that many minimum wage workers anyway."

    Directly, may be not but indirectly they do, all those SMEs in the supply chain and the service companies that exist below the visible horizon (cleaners, caterers etc.). I haven't got the figures to hand but most people don't work for the big boys they work for the smaller fish.

    The other thing HMG can do is force the big companies to pay their bills on time. If that were to happen so much pressure would be taken off the SMEs that their cash flow could cope with paying higher wages. That big companies are still allowed to get away with demanding free credit from their suppliers is a scandal that doesn't receive the attention it deserves.
  • The other thing to consider is that raising the minimum wage will eventually feed through to all hourly rates simply because people will wish to keep the same differential between their earnings and the minimum wage.

    Presumably one of the side benefits of this is that Osborne hopes this will further push earnings increases above inflation addressing the cost of living issue.
This discussion has been closed.