I mooted the suggestion the other day that Dave should offer an English Parliament and full and equal devolution for all the countries of the UK in his GE manifesto. This would be very popular in England I have no doubt – especially as the Scottish referendum looms. I have come to realise that he should do this quickly because if he doesn’t UKIP might!
Personally I think if Farage offered England formal constitutional recognition and its own parliament then it would destroy the Tories’ chances of getting back into power. (It would do so too if Labour made the same offer – but hell will freeze over before Labour would ever dream of this).
It's a good strategy. A similar campaign in the North West region even got tim to vote Green to try and stop the BNP. I do love the "vote for an immigrant feminist to annoy UKIP" line.
It's a good strategy. A similar campaign in the North West region even got tim to vote Green to try and stop the BNP. I do love the "vote for an immigrant feminist to annoy UKIP" line.
I see the Scottish Greens are channelling Dave
The pollsters put the far-right party in second place on 26% UK-wide, likely to cruise to multiple MEP wins in every English region, but in fourth place on 10% in Scotland, with the Greens just a single percentage point behind.
From where some of stand they can seem a long way away to the right. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.
Regarding the Scottish Greens' use of the term - I'm sure it helps with the messaging (people will be more inclined to vote tactically against a party painted as extremist than one thought to be moderate). All we need now is a Scottish UKIP campaign built around stopping the Scottish Greens.
The pollsters put the far-right party in second place on 26% UK-wide, likely to cruise to multiple MEP wins in every English region, but in fourth place on 10% in Scotland, with the Greens just a single percentage point behind.
I see the Greens have picked up on my contention that UKIP are in the running for a seat in Scotland...
Although, bizarrely, on those sub-sample figures, any increase in the Green (or UKIP) vote would see the SNP lose a seat.
Depends how far the pole gets moved to the left. Once upon a time wanting the powers that be to do something about 1000s of gang related rapes was normal.
I mooted the suggestion the other day that Dave should offer an English Parliament and full and equal devolution for all the countries of the UK in his GE manifesto. This would be very popular in England I have no doubt – especially as the Scottish referendum looms. I have come to realise that he should do this quickly because if he doesn’t UKIP might!
Personally I think if Farage offered England formal constitutional recognition and its own parliament then it would destroy the Tories’ chances of getting back into power. (It would do so too if Labour made the same offer – but hell will freeze over before Labour would ever dream of this).
It is indeed an interesting idea. I'm not quite so sure it would be that popular if only because England is the UK on a slightly smaller scale in terms of London/the M25 corridor vs the rest, and this would apply to its parliament, with London even more dominant. How an English pmt would change this I am not sure. I have rellies/friends in the North and SW and they are not happy with the situation. Though this is masked by the use of England-as-a-whole budget data, some information has leaked such as the transport capital investment budget of a few years back which causes much comment - IIRC it was about £5 per head pa for a Northeasterner but hundreds as much for a Londoner. One of the things that has emerged in the indy debates up in Scotland is, in fact, the predicament of the English provinces (which is not surprising as there are plenty of pro-indy and SNP party member incomers from England etc., contrary to myth). I'm (logically enough) not gong to suggest a solution - only that there mght be a problem, and it would be interesting to see what other people think.
One other thought is that this would need full financial devolution for the Scots - including income as well as expenditure - and even then this would leave defence and foreign policy to London, in an (inevitably, because numerically) English-dominated parliament, and given the relative unpopularity of Trident and foreign wars in Scotland, they mght as well go the whole hog to full indy, either now or after a few years. Especially as ...
It also implies that the English pmt would necessarily be Tory dominated, at least initially, as only a Tory leader would be allowed to force federalism through (no doubt with LD support, though after their reversal of their views of abolishing the Secship of State for Scotland, one never knows). He would be opposed nnot only by his party, or some of it, as well as Labour and Mr M - whose One Nation slogan shows a remarkable lack of historical awareness (even if one goes back to the 1870s or whenever it was Disraeli first used that slogan).
Mr. Carnyx, this Yorkshireman would be bloody livid if the political class tried to carve up England into regions. The term 'province' is bloody stupid as well. I don't live in a province, I live in England, not some far flung conquest on a golden shore.
When is the Wythenshawe and Sale East by-election likely to be? Good news for UKIP if it coincides with the campaign (such as it is) for the European Parliament?
One suspects it will be a short campaign.
I believe the funeral is today so the writ will probably be moved next week?
UKIP campaign HQ are already calling on, and asking volunteers to head for the constituency. For those from afar, rooms and bed sits are being arranged. Strong proof of an all out effort here. And this is before the date is announced.
Have UKIP picked a candidate yet?
On the grapevine, I've heard that a candidate has been picked, but won't be named until the date of voting is announced.
Either the countries have full control over devolved policy areas or they don't. If they do then it is not tolerable for Scottish MPs to continue having a vote on English health, eduation, etc votes. Whether the referendum ends in a No or a Yes the issue will need to be sorted. A federal UK would be just fine.
A disgruntled critic of Francois Hollande has dumped tonnes of horse manure outside the French Parliament as allegations of an affair continue to cause a stink for the country's President.
In an angry gesture aimed at riling France's ruling elite, the man made the delivery using an articulated truck daubed with the message: "Out with Hollande and the entire political class. Long live the Sixth Republic."
France's current Republic - the fifth - was founded in 1958 with Charles de Gaulle as its first President.
Either the countries have full control over devolved policy areas or they don't. If they do then it is not tolerable for Scottish MPs to continue having a vote on English health, eduation, etc votes. Whether the referendum ends in a No or a Yes the issue will need to be sorted. A federal UK would be just fine.
Quite. The SNP and the Tories (for their own reasons) would be very happy with that. But sutely it works only if Scotland gets full financial independence - otherwise the Barnett consequentials problem arises, which is that the SNP HAVE to vote on apparently English-only issues because of the financial knock-ons (indeed, that is pretty much the only way in which Scotland can directly control even a small percentage of its income at present without a lot of it being clawed back by the Treasury directly or indirectly). I cannot see a Tory leader getting that past his party - which, before long, will soon be a solely English one (with a few Welsh MPs). But if you think otherwise ...?
The SNP do not vote on truly English-onlu issues, it's hardly a provlem for the Tories given their numbers of Scots MPs, and the problem is with Labour and to a lesser extent the LDs as seen with the student fees votes e.g. But can one complain given that Labour is a One Nation party without a Scottish separate affiliate? It's the logically Unionist way to behave.
Mor egenerally it's an example of why the current shambolic situation is unsustainable - as you say - and as Tam Dalyell perceived when he coined the phrase the West Lothian Question. He won't even accept limited devolution now but wants full union - the other option being of course indy.
Mr. Carnyx, this Yorkshireman would be bloody livid if the political class tried to carve up England into regions. The term 'province' is bloody stupid as well. I don't live in a province, I live in England, not some far flung conquest on a golden shore.
Well, there's that too - I can't see them reviving the old Heptarchy (with or without the Danelaw and large chunks of Strathclyde and Bernicia ... ). Yet it should be remembered that the Middle Saxons already have their Witan and, in Boris, their Ealdorman (or whatever the top rank was).
Either the countries have full control over devolved policy areas or they don't. If they do then it is not tolerable for Scottish MPs to continue having a vote on English health, eduation, etc votes. Whether the referendum ends in a No or a Yes the issue will need to be sorted. A federal UK would be just fine.
I think a federation is generally less stable if one member part of the federation is too big. The UK has only survived so long by having a few typically British fudges to jolly things along. On the one hand the Scots generally accepted a unitary state based in London for the benefits of being part of a greater entity. On the other hand, London accepted that it had to act deferentially where it wasn't really that bothered (hence remaining differences in the legal and education systems, etc).
This has all broken down now, essentially because most British people are a lot less British then they used to be.
I would argue that a federal UK will only work if you break up England roughly along the lines of the Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms. Greater London would take the Thames River catchment area with it, you'd have Cornwall, Wessex, Mercia, Yorkshire, Greater Lancashire, East Anglia, Northumbria and Greater Sussex. (incorporating bits of Kent and Hampshire).
There are fairly strong regional identities in England, so this could work, but the essential point is that English people have a choice between an independent England, and an strong English national identity, or toning down their Englishness in order to be part of something bigger. If the English want to save the UK they have to sacrifice the integrity of England.
Killing Barnett would be entirely uncontroversial in the context of FULL devolution which included revenue raising and borrowing powers for all of the 4 countries equally.
Mr. Carnyx, this Yorkshireman would be bloody livid if the political class tried to carve up England into regions. The term 'province' is bloody stupid as well. I don't live in a province, I live in England, not some far flung conquest on a golden shore.
I'm not sure I want to live in England any more. Would it not make everyone happy if London and the rest of England got divorced?
We could keep our metrosexual ways, and put face cream on in the morning, and drink lattes, and work as lawyers and accountants, and drink cocktails, and have our fancy cosmopolitan ways.
And the rest of the country no longer has to deal with being ruled by a bunch of effete, ex-public school, tossers.
Killing Barnett would be entirely uncontroversial in the context of FULL devolution which included revenue raising and borrowing powers for all of the 4 countries equally.
Killing Barnett would be entirely uncontroversial in the context of FULL devolution which included revenue raising and borrowing powers for all of the 4 countries equally.
Quite, though as I recall that was ruled out by Mr C in the Ednburgh Agreement - if he backtracks on that it would be a massive defeat in its own right and could he survive? We'll see!
Question for the experts on the Brighton Council Tax referendum.
The Brighton budget vote is 27th Feb, for the financial year starting April 1st. As councils have a legal requirement to set a balanced budget, how can they set a budget conditional on a future referendum result? Even more strange, I see they are proposing to carry out the referendum on May 22nd, so almost 2 months into the year. So how can the increase be imposed on April 1st, and what happens if the budget is then made illegal 2 months into the financial year?
I know it's the first time anyone's gone through this, but I can't see how this works when the referendum is held after the budget setting meeting. I'm sure there are some very knowledgeable posters here - can anyone enlighten me?
Osborne's drive to boost exportable manufacturing based on competitive advantage continues apace. In the West Midlands yet again today - Coventry's Manufacturing Technology Center (MTC) this time - Osborne announced a thirty million government sponsored development plan for 3D printing and aerospace technology.
“We are already the best in Europe for aerospace and I want to do even better", Osborne stated. "Up to 27,000 new planes are needed between now and 2030, worth billions of pounds to the UK economy in contracts.”
Government plans are to create a new centre for the two technologies as part of the government's wider £2bn aerospace programme, with government contributions expected to be matched by industry funding, helping to create as many as 1,000 engineering apprenticeships.
Will the rural areas of Warwickshire be the only area in the Midlands where George is not recognised as a Saviour?
Mr. Brooke, your Luddite attitudes need urgent reappraisal.
Killing Barnett would be entirely uncontroversial in the context of FULL devolution which included revenue raising and borrowing powers for all of the 4 countries equally.
Quite. But, in the light of @OblitusSumMe 's comments, it may also mean killing England to save the UK. Interesting comments!
I see no reason why a fully devolved England could not live quite happily alongside the similarly devolved celtic fringe. More importantly if the Scots either leave or get devomax then England will have to become master of its own house.
Bliar and Gordon thought they were locking in eternal Labour hegemony north of the border. In fact they opened Pandora's Box. But open it is. And the consequences will flow. England will BE.
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
Senior Lib Dems are well aware of the damage Rennard’s continuing presence is doing, but they say they are powerless to stop it.
One problem, I am told, is that the peer has the written support of over half the parliamentary party in the Lords, which makes it difficult, if not impossible, to withdraw the whip.
The Brighton budget vote is 27th Feb, for the financial year starting April 1st. As councils have a legal requirement to set a balanced budget, how can they set a budget conditional on a future referendum result? Even more strange, I see they are proposing to carry out the referendum on May 22nd, so almost 2 months into the year. So how can the increase be imposed on April 1st, and what happens if the budget is then made illegal 2 months into the financial year?
I think it's the other way around. The Budget that will go to the Assembly will be for a 1.99% increase and associated cuts. If the referendum passes then some of those cuts will be reversed (you can see the campaign straight away). Presumably new bills would also be sent out for the difference over the remainder of the year. If the referendum fails then the original budget will still be within the rules.
Ps I dont think there is anything strange about holding it on the same day as the Euros - it should be a lot cheaper than having a stand alone ballot.
UKIP are in first place among voters over 40; among voters in the South, and joint first among voters in the Midlands and Wales. Among working class voters, they're second, and lead the Tories by 11%.
Remarkably, 61% of UKIP voters say they're Certain to Vote. That's far above anynother party.
No wonder Peter Kellner expects them to top the poll on c. 30%.
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
Killing Barnett would be entirely uncontroversial in the context of FULL devolution which included revenue raising and borrowing powers for all of the 4 countries equally.
One problem, I am told, is that the peer has the written support of over half the parliamentary party in the Lords, which makes it difficult, if not impossible, to withdraw the whip.
I presume that a majority of Lib Dem peers are men.
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
And if he's English I'll do it twice.
When I become Directly Elected Tyrant, there will only be two regions in this country.
The Greens are "watermelons"; green on the outside for PR reasons; red on the inside on policy reasons. They are really British Bolsheviks.
I think the Greens should rename themselves the "Anti Improved Living Standards Party"
It's not very snappy.
The Luddite Party? The Hate Humanity Party? The Let's Go Back to the Middle Ages Party? The Living In Cloud Cuckoo Land Party? The It's-all-right,-the-rich-will-pay-for-everything Party?
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
And if he's English I'll do it twice.
It's not up to you!!
If it comes to the stage of England getting a parliament - something I support - it would not be done in isolation. It would be part of something much bigger, and potentially better. There's no reason why different bits of a unitary country cannot also enjoy a fair degree of self-government too.
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
And if he's English I'll do it twice.
Well, I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman too and I wouldn't object to a Yorkshire national parliament provided that it had at least the powers of the Welsh Assembly. If it's going to exist, it needs to be meaningful.
I agree with OSM: federal systems where one component is too large tend not to work very well.
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
And if he's English I'll do it twice.
It's not up to you!!
If it comes to the stage of England getting a parliament - something I support - it would not be done in isolation. It would be part of something much bigger, and potentially better. There's no reason why different bits of a unitary country cannot also enjoy a fair degree of self-government too.
Absolutely. More politicians, bureaucracy and vested interests can't fail to make things better. Obvious, innit.
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
And if he's English I'll do it twice.
It's not up to you!!
If it comes to the stage of England getting a parliament - something I support - it would not be done in isolation. It would be part of something much bigger, and potentially better. There's no reason why different bits of a unitary country cannot also enjoy a fair degree of self-government too.
Mr. Eagles, leaving aside your infamously poor grasp of classical history, that doesn't make any sense.
On the plus side, you are safe (for now) from being assaulted with a large, genetically engineered fish.
A Directly Elected Tyrant would be a good thing, Tyrants were a good thing until Plato started besmirching them.
Yorkshire and Greater Yorkshire would follow the Manchester/Greater Manchester model, the main bit would be Manchester, the surrounding bits form Greater Manchester.
So Yorkshire would be the main region, whilst everywhere else in the UK would be part of Greater Yorkshire.
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
And if he's English I'll do it twice.
I'm not an Englishman. The word 'English' means nothing to me.
The original question was: Should UKIP offer an English Parliament?
I think it would be a blinder of a policy for them. What is the PB Commentariat's view? (not of merits / demerits of an EP but political / electoral impact on UKIP and / or Dave).
Mr. Eagles, leaving aside your infamously poor grasp of classical history, that doesn't make any sense.
On the plus side, you are safe (for now) from being assaulted with a large, genetically engineered fish.
A Directly Elected Tyrant would be a good thing, Tyrants were a good thing until Plato started besmirching them.
Yorkshire and Greater Yorkshire would follow the Manchester/Greater Manchester model, the main bit would be Manchester, the surrounding bits form Greater Manchester.
So Yorkshire would be the main region, whilst everywhere else in the UK would be part of Greater Yorkshire.
Your terminology is wrong. It would be Yorkshire and Lesser Yorkshire.
One problem, I am told, is that the peer has the written support of over half the parliamentary party in the Lords, which makes it difficult, if not impossible, to withdraw the whip.
I presume that a majority of Lib Dem peers are men.
Quite. But look on the bright side - the lady head of Nick Clegg's office, self described as Lord Rennard's 'niece', was enobled last year to help even things out.....a bit......
ONE of Nick Clegg’s key aides named as his “gatekeeper” over allegations of sexual harassment by Lord Rennard, the former Liberal Democrat chief executive, is in line for a peerage.
It is claimed that Alison Suttie, Clegg’s former deputy chief of staff, was the point of contact in his office for women who wished to complain about Rennard. She is set to be recommended for a peerage by Clegg in the next honours list.
It is hard to imagine anyone buying The Independent and therefore places the paper's future existence in jeopardy. The fact that its owner has failed to find a buyer after months of seeking one suggest that its newsprint days are coming to an end.
Though the financial losses have been significantly reduced over the past three years - down from more than £20m to just below £9m - the Indy's circulation has fallen to a level that no longer makes the paper a viable proposition.
The original question was: Should UKIP offer an English Parliament?
I think it would be a blinder of a policy for them. What is the PB Commentariat's view? (not of merits / demerits of an EP but political / electoral impact on UKIP and / or Dave).
I dont think many people care much. There is a party whose entire raison d'etre is an English Parliament (I wonder how francis is these days). I would be surprised if 1% of the electorate could even name them unprompted.
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
And if he's English I'll do it twice.
It's not up to you!!
If it comes to the stage of England getting a parliament - something I support - it would not be done in isolation. It would be part of something much bigger, and potentially better. There's no reason why different bits of a unitary country cannot also enjoy a fair degree of self-government too.
Absolutely. More politicians, bureaucracy and vested interests can't fail to make things better. Obvious, innit.
The original question was: Should UKIP offer an English Parliament?
I think it would be a blinder of a policy for them. What is the PB Commentariat's view? (not of merits / demerits of an EP but political / electoral impact on UKIP and / or Dave).
It's a constitutional matter, so the voters don't care. Like House of Lords reform, PR and anything else in that area no-one changes their vote because of it.
Mr. Eagles, leaving aside your infamously poor grasp of classical history, that doesn't make any sense.
On the plus side, you are safe (for now) from being assaulted with a large, genetically engineered fish.
A Directly Elected Tyrant would be a good thing, Tyrants were a good thing until Plato started besmirching them.
Yorkshire and Greater Yorkshire would follow the Manchester/Greater Manchester model, the main bit would be Manchester, the surrounding bits form Greater Manchester.
So Yorkshire would be the main region, whilst everywhere else in the UK would be part of Greater Yorkshire.
Your terminology is wrong. It would be Yorkshire and Lesser Yorkshire.
Excellent idea, see people these are the brilliant ideas you get when you put Yorkshiremen in charge.
I'm not an Englishman. The word 'English' means nothing to me.
I am a Londoner.
Yet the vast majority of British citizens in London identify as English before they identify as Londoners. Although I accept the powers that be are doing their best to change that with mass immigration.
Killing Barnett would be entirely uncontroversial in the context of FULL devolution which included revenue raising and borrowing powers for all of the 4 countries equally.
Quite. But, in the light of @OblitusSumMe 's comments, it may also mean killing England to save the UK. Interesting comments!
I see no reason why a fully devolved England could not live quite happily alongside the similarly devolved celtic fringe.
I can think of many successful federations where no single state with its own strong identity is too large - eg the US (largest state is California, 13% of total), Switzerland (Zurich, 18%), etc.
I can also think of many unsuccessful federations where a single state was pre-eminent and tried to impose its will on the others - eg Yugoslavia (Serbia, 34%), USSR (Russia, 51%).
The UK sits as an anomaly within all this, with England making up 83% of the total. If England wants to do its own thing it will do so alone, but if the English want the UK to survive they have to find a way of pretending that England does not exist.
The original question was: Should UKIP offer an English Parliament?
I think it would be a blinder of a policy for them. What is the PB Commentariat's view? (not of merits / demerits of an EP but political / electoral impact on UKIP and / or Dave).
I dont think many people care much. There is a party whose entire raison d'etre is an English Parliament (I wonder how francis is these days). I would be surprised if 1% of the electorate could even name them unprompted.
Hmmm.....not convinced. I think alot of English people care very deeply about England and (to a lesser extent) resent its non-existence. One trick pony parties rarely thrive, but UKIP and the SNP seem to be doing alright! If UKIP swallowed the EP movement whole it would grow and thrive on it. The white van man vote is not to be underestimated, ignored or taken for granted. Dave did and he's paying for it.
The Brighton budget vote is 27th Feb, for the financial year starting April 1st. As councils have a legal requirement to set a balanced budget, how can they set a budget conditional on a future referendum result? Even more strange, I see they are proposing to carry out the referendum on May 22nd, so almost 2 months into the year. So how can the increase be imposed on April 1st, and what happens if the budget is then made illegal 2 months into the financial year?
I think it's the other way around. The Budget that will go to the Assembly will be for a 1.99% increase and associated cuts. If the referendum passes then some of those cuts will be reversed (you can see the campaign straight away). Presumably new bills would also be sent out for the difference over the remainder of the year. If the referendum fails then the original budget will still be within the rules.
Ps I dont think there is anything strange about holding it on the same day as the Euros - it should be a lot cheaper than having a stand alone ballot.
Thanks Neil - that makes a lot of sense (although it means the administration proposing and voting for a budget that they don't even pretend to support.) but clearly legal unlike what I'd assumed.
Obviously holding on the same day as the Euros will save money, but even so £100,000 sounds a very high cost for a referendum of 275,000 voters when all the polling stations are open, staff engaged and postal votes going out anyway.
We need an English parliament just to allow some symmetry across the UK, with equal devolved powers across the different countries. That would stop all the petty resentments building up, and also make it clear that, as symmetry is required, agreement of all four nations is needed to change the powers from the federal level to the state level. We could then set about rebuilding a British identity again.
It could also have the benefit that the UK parliament could handle the important issues, while state MPs could take the glorified councillor role. That would help serious people who know about economics and international relations run for office without having to do it based on clearing up dog crap in the area.
although it means the administration proposing and voting for a budget that they don't even pretend to support
Of course that is the Coalition Government's fault rather than the Green party administration's. Indeed I dont think the Coalition Government have even announced the increase that would trigger a referendum this year so even a 1.99% increase might require one (if speculation that the trigger will fall to 1.5% comes to pass) so they might as well go for it anyway.
Assuming Independence is won, what would Scottish UKIP do?
Disband? Rename?
An Independent Scotland won't be part of the EU, so Scottish Kippers will be voting yes in September.
Arbroath Smokies are far superior.....
Different perhaps - herring and haddock have their own qualities - but if you are ever in Arbroath etc you can buy a Smokie supper from the chippie - they take them, slit them open, add a pat of butter and nuke them and it s a very fne alternative to battered fish with yyour chips.
The original question was: Should UKIP offer an English Parliament?
I think it would be a blinder of a policy for them. What is the PB Commentariat's view? (not of merits / demerits of an EP but political / electoral impact on UKIP and / or Dave).
It is a well-established tactic for seizing power.
It was how Yeltsin got rid of Gorbachev.
And Farage resembles Yeltsin as much as Cameron is similar to Gorbachev.
It is hard to imagine anyone buying The Independent and therefore places the paper's future existence in jeopardy. The fact that its owner has failed to find a buyer after months of seeking one suggest that its newsprint days are coming to an end.
Though the financial losses have been significantly reduced over the past three years - down from more than £20m to just below £9m - the Indy's circulation has fallen to a level that no longer makes the paper a viable proposition.
The loss of the Indy would have a disastrous effect on the BBC news paper review slot - perhaps the BBC trust should consider purchasing the paper in the interest of maintaining the news channel output ?
The original question was: Should UKIP offer an English Parliament?
I think it would be a blinder of a policy for them. What is the PB Commentariat's view? (not of merits / demerits of an EP but political / electoral impact on UKIP and / or Dave).
I dont think many people care much. There is a party whose entire raison d'etre is an English Parliament (I wonder how francis is these days). I would be surprised if 1% of the electorate could even name them unprompted.
Hmmm.....not convinced. I think alot of English people care very deeply about England and (to a lesser extent) resent its non-existence. One trick pony parties rarely thrive, but UKIP and the SNP seem to be doing alright! If UKIP swallowed the EP movement whole it would grow and thrive on it. The white van man vote is not to be underestimated, ignored or taken for granted. Dave did and he's paying for it.
UKIP perhaps - but the SNP is also differentiated from Labour, Tories, etc. by other factors such as offering a social democratic proframme and fiscal probity (no PFI etc) - remember it ran Scotland for years before the indy referendum was even an option. UKIP doesn't even have a MP! But probably that doesn't affect the point of your comment.
This thread throws up just what is wrong with this country. What the heck has happened to us? What other nation in the world has such a loathing for their own land? Its almost as if you're ashamed to call yourselves English. Cecil Rhodes had the right of it. I'm praying for Scottish Independence, even more so now, as that hastens the day that you'll have to put English on your passports!
One further issue. I can see the Scots being happy to go for full fiscal autonomy (and I mean full, including things like corporation tax and VAT on Scottish branches of UK companies, etc., currently credited to London cos that is where their HQs are.) Whether they are happy to pay for MoD, Trident, war, is another matter which may kill the idea.
But what about Wales and NI? What is the real situation there re fiscal autonomy? Carwyn Jones was certainly demanding huge diversions of money from Scotland to Wales. Would Wales and NI agree to a new devo max scheme where necessarioy this would not operate?
I'm not an Englishman. The word 'English' means nothing to me.
I am a Londoner.
Yet the vast majority of British citizens in London identify as English before they identify as Londoners. Although I accept the powers that be are doing their best to change that with mass immigration.
Actually, having debated this with my colleagues, I have changed my mind.
I was having a very pleasant lunch today, until one of our party mentioned his sister was a marine biologist.
He claimed she is full of stories of emptying oceans etc - nothing but jellyfish left in 2040. 'Your grandchildren will only know about dolpins through films'
He claimed she is full of stories of emptying oceans etc - nothing but jellyfish left in 2040. 'Your grandchildren will only know about dolpins through films'
@bbcnickrobinson: The Chancellor tells me he wants above-inflation increase in minimum wage. My blog+extracts from exclusive interview http://t.co/Tk8RqrgDNc
Comments
Personally I think if Farage offered England formal constitutional recognition and its own parliament then it would destroy the Tories’ chances of getting back into power. (It would do so too if Labour made the same offer – but hell will freeze over before Labour would ever dream of this).
http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/uncategorized/yougov-poll-sets-up-green-v-ukip-euro-clash-in-scotland/
It's a good strategy. A similar campaign in the North West region even got tim to vote Green to try and stop the BNP. I do love the "vote for an immigrant feminist to annoy UKIP" line.
The pollsters put the far-right party in second place on 26% UK-wide, likely to cruise to multiple MEP wins in every English region, but in fourth place on 10% in Scotland, with the Greens just a single percentage point behind.
Regarding the Scottish Greens' use of the term - I'm sure it helps with the messaging (people will be more inclined to vote tactically against a party painted as extremist than one thought to be moderate). All we need now is a Scottish UKIP campaign built around stopping the Scottish Greens.
Although, bizarrely, on those sub-sample figures, any increase in the Green (or UKIP) vote would see the SNP lose a seat.
One other thought is that this would need full financial devolution for the Scots - including income as well as expenditure - and even then this would leave defence and foreign policy to London, in an (inevitably, because numerically) English-dominated parliament, and given the relative unpopularity of Trident and foreign wars in Scotland, they mght as well go the whole hog to full indy, either now or after a few years. Especially as ...
It also implies that the English pmt would necessarily be Tory dominated, at least initially, as only a Tory leader would be allowed to force federalism through (no doubt with LD support, though after their reversal of their views of abolishing the Secship of State for Scotland, one never knows). He would be opposed nnot only by his party, or some of it, as well as Labour and Mr M - whose One Nation slogan shows a remarkable lack of historical awareness (even if one goes back to the 1870s or whenever it was Disraeli first used that slogan).
Disband?
Rename?
Either the countries have full control over devolved policy areas or they don't. If they do then it is not tolerable for Scottish MPs to continue having a vote on English health, eduation, etc votes. Whether the referendum ends in a No or a Yes the issue will need to be sorted. A federal UK would be just fine.
A disgruntled critic of Francois Hollande has dumped tonnes of horse manure outside the French Parliament as allegations of an affair continue to cause a stink for the country's President.
In an angry gesture aimed at riling France's ruling elite, the man made the delivery using an articulated truck daubed with the message: "Out with Hollande and the entire political class. Long live the Sixth Republic."
France's current Republic - the fifth - was founded in 1958 with Charles de Gaulle as its first President.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/angry-critic-of-president-hollande-dumps-manure-on-french-parliament-9064819.html?origin=internalSearch
The SNP do not vote on truly English-onlu issues, it's hardly a provlem for the Tories given their numbers of Scots MPs, and the problem is with Labour and to a lesser extent the LDs as seen with the student fees votes e.g. But can one complain given that Labour is a One Nation party without a Scottish separate affiliate? It's the logically Unionist way to behave.
Mor egenerally it's an example of why the current shambolic situation is unsustainable - as you say - and as Tam Dalyell perceived when he coined the phrase the West Lothian Question. He won't even accept limited devolution now but wants full union - the other option being of course indy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/15/david-heath-liberal-democrats-interview_n_4604216.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003
Still a misnomer. 'Lower living standards for fewer of you' would be closer to it.
If what I've read is true, the adage that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned is about to be proved true for the zillionth time.
She ain't gonna go quietly.
This has all broken down now, essentially because most British people are a lot less British then they used to be.
I would argue that a federal UK will only work if you break up England roughly along the lines of the Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms. Greater London would take the Thames River catchment area with it, you'd have Cornwall, Wessex, Mercia, Yorkshire, Greater Lancashire, East Anglia, Northumbria and Greater Sussex. (incorporating bits of Kent and Hampshire).
There are fairly strong regional identities in England, so this could work, but the essential point is that English people have a choice between an independent England, and an strong English national identity, or toning down their Englishness in order to be part of something bigger. If the English want to save the UK they have to sacrifice the integrity of England.
We could keep our metrosexual ways, and put face cream on in the morning, and drink lattes, and work as lawyers and accountants, and drink cocktails, and have our fancy cosmopolitan ways.
And the rest of the country no longer has to deal with being ruled by a bunch of effete, ex-public school, tossers.
It's win, win, win...
You heartless bastard.
'Back to Basics'......Oh hang on a sec its been done.
The Brighton budget vote is 27th Feb, for the financial year starting April 1st. As councils have a legal requirement to set a balanced budget, how can they set a budget conditional on a future referendum result? Even more strange, I see they are proposing to carry out the referendum on May 22nd, so almost 2 months into the year. So how can the increase be imposed on April 1st, and what happens if the budget is then made illegal 2 months into the financial year?
I know it's the first time anyone's gone through this, but I can't see how this works when the referendum is held after the budget setting meeting. I'm sure there are some very knowledgeable posters here - can anyone enlighten me?
“We are already the best in Europe for aerospace and I want to do even better", Osborne stated. "Up to 27,000 new planes are needed between now and 2030, worth billions of pounds to the UK economy in contracts.”
Government plans are to create a new centre for the two technologies as part of the government's wider £2bn aerospace programme, with government contributions expected to be matched by industry funding, helping to create as many as 1,000 engineering apprenticeships.
Will the rural areas of Warwickshire be the only area in the Midlands where George is not recognised as a Saviour?
Mr. Brooke, your Luddite attitudes need urgent reappraisal.
Bliar and Gordon thought they were locking in eternal Labour hegemony north of the border. In fact they opened Pandora's Box. But open it is. And the consequences will flow. England will BE.
I'm an Englishman and a Yorkshireman. There's no choice to be made. Only an English Parliament will do. Carving England up into chunks governed by pathetic little regional assemblies is absolutely not on.
As for London: it's English. Same as Lancashire. Not everywhere in England can be as magnificent as Yorkshire or delightful as Devon, but that doesn't stop the Mancunians or cockneys being English.
Edited extra bit - I'm going to slap the next man who suggests carving up this kingdom into pieces with a large haddock.
And if he's English I'll do it twice.
One problem, I am told, is that the peer has the written support of over half the parliamentary party in the Lords, which makes it difficult, if not impossible, to withdraw the whip.
http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2014/01/can-clegg-oust-rennard/?
I think it was Osborne who decided to back Alan Bond's incredible 'sabre' rocket engine. Potential earthquake aerospace gamechanger, entirely British.
Ozzie really does seem to have an enthusiasm for this stuff.
Dave, by contrast, seems to have invented the red Hi vi.....
Ps I dont think there is anything strange about holding it on the same day as the Euros - it should be a lot cheaper than having a stand alone ballot.
Remarkably, 61% of UKIP voters say they're Certain to Vote. That's far above anynother party.
No wonder Peter Kellner expects them to top the poll on c. 30%.
Yes.
Yorkshire, and Greater Yorkshire.
ThankyouverymuchImhereallweek.
The Hate Humanity Party?
The Let's Go Back to the Middle Ages Party?
The Living In Cloud Cuckoo Land Party?
The It's-all-right,-the-rich-will-pay-for-everything Party?
I'm not very keen on them.
If it comes to the stage of England getting a parliament - something I support - it would not be done in isolation. It would be part of something much bigger, and potentially better. There's no reason why different bits of a unitary country cannot also enjoy a fair degree of self-government too.
On the plus side, you are safe (for now) from being assaulted with a large, genetically engineered fish.
I agree with OSM: federal systems where one component is too large tend not to work very well.
Yorkshire and Greater Yorkshire would follow the Manchester/Greater Manchester model, the main bit would be Manchester, the surrounding bits form Greater Manchester.
So Yorkshire would be the main region, whilst everywhere else in the UK would be part of Greater Yorkshire.
I am a Londoner.
I think it would be a blinder of a policy for them. What is the PB Commentariat's view? (not of merits / demerits of an EP but political / electoral impact on UKIP and / or Dave).
ONE of Nick Clegg’s key aides named as his “gatekeeper” over allegations of sexual harassment by Lord Rennard, the former Liberal Democrat chief executive, is in line for a peerage.
It is claimed that Alison Suttie, Clegg’s former deputy chief of staff, was the point of contact in his office for women who wished to complain about Rennard. She is set to be recommended for a peerage by Clegg in the next honours list.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/Politics/article1224149.ece
Though the financial losses have been significantly reduced over the past three years - down from more than £20m to just below £9m - the Indy's circulation has fallen to a level that no longer makes the paper a viable proposition.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jan/16/independent-print-alexander-lebedev?CMP=twt_gu
I can also think of many unsuccessful federations where a single state was pre-eminent and tried to impose its will on the others - eg Yugoslavia (Serbia, 34%), USSR (Russia, 51%).
The UK sits as an anomaly within all this, with England making up 83% of the total. If England wants to do its own thing it will do so alone, but if the English want the UK to survive they have to find a way of pretending that England does not exist.
Obviously holding on the same day as the Euros will save money, but even so £100,000 sounds a very high cost for a referendum of 275,000 voters when all the polling stations are open, staff engaged and postal votes going out anyway.
It could also have the benefit that the UK parliament could handle the important issues, while state MPs could take the glorified councillor role. That would help serious people who know about economics and international relations run for office without having to do it based on clearing up dog crap in the area.
It was how Yeltsin got rid of Gorbachev.
And Farage resembles Yeltsin as much as Cameron is similar to Gorbachev.
Doesn't that rather go against their raison d'etre?
UNITED KINGDOM independence party?
The West Lothian Question exists and needs answering. I don't see why any party shouldn't put a policy forward that might do so.
Has anyone, at any time, ever seen even the outlines of a smile on the grim visages of Caroline Lucas or Jenny Jones?
And in 2018 the ''the rich have b8ggered off, looks like you middle class guys will have to pick up the tab'' party
Cecil Rhodes had the right of it.
I'm praying for Scottish Independence, even more so now, as that hastens the day that you'll have to put English on your passports!
But what about Wales and NI? What is the real situation there re fiscal autonomy? Carwyn Jones was certainly demanding huge diversions of money from Scotland to Wales. Would Wales and NI agree to a new devo max scheme where necessarioy this would not operate?
I am not a Londoner. I am a North Londoner.
Down with the South Londoners!
I was having a very pleasant lunch today, until one of our party mentioned his sister was a marine biologist.
He claimed she is full of stories of emptying oceans etc - nothing but jellyfish left in 2040. 'Your grandchildren will only know about dolpins through films'
Suddenly my Ribeye didn't taste quite so good.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html
Aren't you from Hampstead? I would have thought you had more in common with Clapham than Wembley...
Other left wing conundrums include (but are not restricted to)
Melting ice packs that trap research ships for months.
Starving foodbank Britain where more than 50% will soon be clinically obese.
The timing to spike Milibands speech tomorrow?
http://democracyranking.org/wordpress/?page_id=738
Now 14th, behind Austria, Belgium and Ireland...