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The Johnson 2022 exit betting gets tighter – politicalbetting.com

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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    "accused" - doesn';t mean he did.
    The double pronged judgment of Big G and the Tele means Drakeford’s pants are on fire almost certainly.
    Do you agree with the Drake shutting down sports and imposing various new restrictions?
  • On the topic of Christmas, we watched "A boy called Christmas" tonight which is on Sky despite being a Netflix film. It was really good, really entertaining origin story for Father Christmas, which is not something that is often tackled for Christmas movies. Would recommend for a family movie night for anyone with young kids.

    Want to get the book its based on now to read with the girls.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    edited December 2021

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    "accused" - doesn';t mean he did.
    The double pronged judgment of Big G and the Tele means Drakeford’s pants are on fire almost certainly.
    The question is did you listen to him live, and if not then you are not in a position to criticise the health expert who has pulled Drakeford up
    Hey, all I’m saying that your and the Tele’s analysis of Drakeford & Sturgeon and their imminent falls from grace with voters is top notch.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Aslan said:

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know why people persist with the myth that Christmas has anything to do with a baby two thousand years ago.
    I know, it’s the same at Easter. You can be perfectly happy eating chocolate mini eggs and using a few days off to redecorate the spare room, yet these annoying killjoys keep trying to bring religion into it.
    Personally I think we need to take Easter back to its pagan roots. I am sick of it being perverted by all these recent add ons about crucifixions and caves.
    It would be nice if schools could educate people about the real histories of holidays. There is some historical evidence to show that 25 December was a holiday to celebrity a birthday, but it was celebrating the birth of the Zoroastrian sun god Mithra not a baby.

    The interconnections of a Persian sun god [as perceived by the Romans], Roman traditions and the Norse traditions all form a fascinating history of the festival we now know as Christmas and the traditions of food, merriment, drink and gifts etc that go with that have been celebrated now for well over two and a half thousand years.

    Except for when the Puritans tried and failed to cancel it. So that brings cancel culture into the conversation too.
    In Taiwan it is Chiang kai-Shek's birthday, a national holiday. Also known as Christmas. Pretty much everywhere has a mid-winter booze and feast.
    Conveniently Mohammad Jinnahs birthday too, so a National holiday in Pakistan.
    Yep. I imagine if we weren't Christian we'd have an Isaac Newton's Birthday holiday.
  • Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    "accused" - doesn';t mean he did.
    The double pronged judgment of Big G and the Tele means Drakeford’s pants are on fire almost certainly.
    Do you agree with the Drake shutting down sports and imposing various new restrictions?
    I don’t live in Wales and can’t vote for Drakeford so I feel lauding/bleating about him would be somewhat pointless.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279

    kyf_100 said:

    jonny83 said:

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1474065585495588869

    BREAKING: People with Omicron are significantly less likely to develop severe symptoms, but the effects of the booster vaccine wane after 10 weeks, according to new analysis by the UK Health Security Agency.

    That's a bit of an arse as it is nearly twelve weeks since I received my booster.
    That's really serious - we've rushed to vaccinate millions only to find we've only bought ourselves a little time at most.
    Well let's not panic yet. Does it mean 'start to wane' after 10 weeks - and if so, how quickly does it decline? And where does it decline to?
    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1474071983067389958?t=6SzgWX5Gs8PV1rp7us_37w&s=19

    Good thread there about the UKHSA findings.

    There is some good news, ok news, bad news, potentially down the line really bad news. Bit of everything really.
    This does not mean Omicron *causes mild disease* These are epidemiological studies which tell us Omicron *is less likely to cause* severe disease.

    This has been my worry, people hear milder, it doesn't mean mild.
    At this point, I'll take my chances. Happy for those who want to self isolate to self isolate, but utterly done with governments telling me what I can and cannot do. I want to live. I am not prepared to endure another lockdown.
    As long as you aren't old, fat and anti-vax, all the data is pointing towards low risk. It is the old and vulnerable where there still could be an issue.
    That's made up my mind... I'm going to get younger.
    Most people can actually get younger by improving diet and doing more exercise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050
    Andy_JS said:

    kyf_100 said:

    jonny83 said:

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1474065585495588869

    BREAKING: People with Omicron are significantly less likely to develop severe symptoms, but the effects of the booster vaccine wane after 10 weeks, according to new analysis by the UK Health Security Agency.

    That's a bit of an arse as it is nearly twelve weeks since I received my booster.
    That's really serious - we've rushed to vaccinate millions only to find we've only bought ourselves a little time at most.
    Well let's not panic yet. Does it mean 'start to wane' after 10 weeks - and if so, how quickly does it decline? And where does it decline to?
    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1474071983067389958?t=6SzgWX5Gs8PV1rp7us_37w&s=19

    Good thread there about the UKHSA findings.

    There is some good news, ok news, bad news, potentially down the line really bad news. Bit of everything really.
    This does not mean Omicron *causes mild disease* These are epidemiological studies which tell us Omicron *is less likely to cause* severe disease.

    This has been my worry, people hear milder, it doesn't mean mild.
    At this point, I'll take my chances. Happy for those who want to self isolate to self isolate, but utterly done with governments telling me what I can and cannot do. I want to live. I am not prepared to endure another lockdown.
    As long as you aren't old, fat and anti-vax, all the data is pointing towards low risk. It is the old and vulnerable where there still could be an issue.
    That's made up my mind... I'm going to get younger.
    Most people can actually get younger by improving diet and doing more exercise.
    Sure, that helps but age is the biggest risk factor for severe covid. More than obesity etc.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    Not true. I voted Blair twice and will rejoin the conservative party only when Boris has gone

    And by the way why not address the criticism than the messenger
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    On the topic of Christmas, we watched "A boy called Christmas" tonight which is on Sky despite being a Netflix film. It was really good, really entertaining origin story for Father Christmas, which is not something that is often tackled for Christmas movies. Would recommend for a family movie night for anyone with young kids.

    Want to get the book its based on now to read with the girls.

    Noted. Thanks for the recommendation. Hope you are well. Just popping in to break my PB fast. Will be off again soon!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    "accused" - doesn';t mean he did.
    The double pronged judgment of Big G and the Tele means Drakeford’s pants are on fire almost certainly.
    Do you agree with the Drake shutting down sports and imposing various new restrictions?
    I don’t live in Wales and can’t vote for Drakeford so I feel lauding/bleating about him would be somewhat pointless.
    Okay, fair enough.What do you think about the Scottish regulations?
  • Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    "accused" - doesn';t mean he did.
    The double pronged judgment of Big G and the Tele means Drakeford’s pants are on fire almost certainly.
    Do you agree with the Drake shutting down sports and imposing various new restrictions?
    Apparently The RNLI have had to cancel their boxing day dip because of these regulations

    Drakeford is Corbyn's mate and it is showing and he has been caught out, hence the rush to defend the indefensible
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    If he'd been around then he'd have been equally fanatical about Ed. Afterall, he gets ecstatic over opinion poll ratings that Ed routinely achieved.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    If he'd been around then he'd have been equally fanatical about Ed. Afterall, he gets ecstatic over opinion poll ratings that Ed routinely achieved.
    Actually I voted for David M, I supported Ed once he was elected but I never felt he had a good chance of beating Cameron with the economy such a large issue
  • @BartholomewRoberts you know a lot about fanaticism, you're the biggest BoJo fan here!
  • Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    "accused" - doesn';t mean he did.
    The double pronged judgment of Big G and the Tele means Drakeford’s pants are on fire almost certainly.
    Do you agree with the Drake shutting down sports and imposing various new restrictions?
    I don’t live in Wales and can’t vote for Drakeford so I feel lauding/bleating about him would be somewhat pointless.
    Okay, fair enough.What do you think about the Scottish regulations?
    I'm ok with them though I do feel sorry for pub workers, though not so much for more than a few of their rsole bosses with a direct line to BBC Scotland.

    My pre-Christmas social whirl such as it is has actually been pretty much as normal except for (much in some cases) less busy venues. Unless you think the public are mindless sheep they seem to have voted with their feet using their free will.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
    There's nothing wrong with flip flopping, it shows that you're not a partisan loyalist and are actually thinking for yourself, which is what Big G does.

    Its very easy to be a consistent party supporter like yourself or HYUFD, all it takes is to suspend your critical thinking and to adopt a party like a football club through thick and thin.
  • As for Starmer, no idea if he will win and it is indeed early days. It does some that as of right now, he's in the best position of any leader for years. Ed M never lead on any of the leadership metrics that Starmer does.

    Sunak vs Starmer, that will be the interesting fight. I will enjoy the Tories do an about turn to how boring is actually good when he takes over.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
    There's nothing wrong with flip flopping, it shows that you're not a partisan loyalist and are actually thinking for yourself, which is what Big G does.

    Its very easy to be a consistent party supporter like yourself or HYUFD, all it takes is to suspend your critical thinking and to adopt a party like a football club through thick and thin.
    You're a partisan loyalist, one of the most partisan people here!

    As I mentioned before, I've voted Tory and Lib Dem...
  • @BartholomewRoberts you know a lot about fanaticism, you're the biggest BoJo fan here!

    I was, I liked the liberal Boris of 2019. I don't like the authoritarian, tax rising Boris of 2021.

    Kate Andrews put it better than I could earlier today: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/22/tories-will-speak-liberty/
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
    I am not impartial and would never vote for Starmer

    I am a conservative who wants my party back from Boris at which point I will rejoin as will several others on PB and indeed TSE already has

    Your worst fear will come about the day Boris goes
  • Trussy one of that select group who weren't sure Jim was an absolute wrong un' for years before his death. Also includes the sainted Margaret and the Royal Family of course.


  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    TimS said:

    Charles said:

    The German-Baltic Chamber of Commerce has written to the Lithuanian government warning that German investors may close their plants in the country unless a "constructive solution to restore Lithuanian-Chinese economic relations" is found

    https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1474039233052659718

    Germany really are a mercantilist nation. Shameful.
    To be fair this is a chamber of commerce ie an industry group not the government. Still, what with this and Nordstream2 there does seem to be a degree of realpolitik gone mad in some corners of the German economy.
    The Nordstream debate is interesting, as it's a wedge between the new German government partners. It's built, ready to use, and would help dampen the soaring gas price. Everyone agrees that if Russia actually attacked Ukraine then it shouldn't be opened for a long time, if ever. The SPD and CDU are in favour of opening it if they don't, the Greens are against, both because they don't like gas (fossil fuel) and they don't like Russia (and do like Ukraine). Not sure what the FDP thinks - does anyone know?

    The obvious deal to be done is for Putin to stop willy-waving and the pipeline to open after a few months, after which it becomes a profitable lever to restrain Putin from a return to willy-waving. I think that's what will happen in the end, but Putin is populist enough to be unpredictable.
  • @BartholomewRoberts you know a lot about fanaticism, you're the biggest BoJo fan here!

    I was, I liked the liberal Boris of 2019. I don't like the authoritarian, tax rising Boris of 2021.

    Kate Andrews put it better than I could earlier today: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/22/tories-will-speak-liberty/
    ROFL, if his popularity recovers you'll be his biggest fan again. You are never wrong.

    You'll be a Sunak fan if he takes over.

    HYUFD is partisan but at least he doesn't pretend otherwise. You must think we're all fools.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
    There's nothing wrong with flip flopping, it shows that you're not a partisan loyalist and are actually thinking for yourself, which is what Big G does.

    Its very easy to be a consistent party supporter like yourself or HYUFD, all it takes is to suspend your critical thinking and to adopt a party like a football club through thick and thin.
    You're a partisan loyalist, one of the most partisan people here!

    As I mentioned before, I've voted Tory and Lib Dem...
    There's a difference between being opinionated and being partisan.

    I support whichever party or politician matches my opinions, I don't change my opinions to match a party or politician.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
    I am not impartial and would never vote for Starmer

    I am a conservative who wants my party back from Boris at which point I will rejoin as will several others on PB and indeed TSE already has

    Your worst fear will come about the day Boris goes
    My worst fear? It will be a fantastic day for democracy and the country when Johnson goes. I'll welcome it with open ears. Maybe Hunt might even get me to vote Tory, who knows?

    My concern is that the intelligent Tories (as in MPs) have already been kicked out - and the talent left is woeful.

    Admittedly, Labour talent isn't great either.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
    There's nothing wrong with flip flopping, it shows that you're not a partisan loyalist and are actually thinking for yourself, which is what Big G does.

    Its very easy to be a consistent party supporter like yourself or HYUFD, all it takes is to suspend your critical thinking and to adopt a party like a football club through thick and thin.
    You're a partisan loyalist, one of the most partisan people here!

    As I mentioned before, I've voted Tory and Lib Dem...
    There's a difference between being opinionated and being partisan.

    I support whichever party or politician matches my opinions, I don't change my opinions to match a party or politician.
    You literally do though, you're literally one of the most partisan people here.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
    There's nothing wrong with flip flopping, it shows that you're not a partisan loyalist and are actually thinking for yourself, which is what Big G does.

    Its very easy to be a consistent party supporter like yourself or HYUFD, all it takes is to suspend your critical thinking and to adopt a party like a football club through thick and thin.
    The point is that he is not consistent, having been a Corbyn fanbois and now thinks Starmer is Blair

    That is some journey
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
    There's nothing wrong with flip flopping, it shows that you're not a partisan loyalist and are actually thinking for yourself, which is what Big G does.

    Its very easy to be a consistent party supporter like yourself or HYUFD, all it takes is to suspend your critical thinking and to adopt a party like a football club through thick and thin.
    The point is that he is not consistent, having been a Corbyn fanbois and now thinks Starmer is Blair

    That is some journey
    I never said Starmer was Blair. I said he is the most successful Labour leader since Blair in terms of ratings, which is undeniably true. That's not a high bar.

    As for Corbyn, I liked the 2017 manifesto, thought it was good. I am a social democrat. 2019 was too left wing for me as I said at the time. I am not happy with the rabbit hole I went down with Corbyn, happy to say so again.

    But to be accused of partisanship by the two most partisan people here is hilarious.

    Good night
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    Anyway thanks for the replies. I must say the ludicrous hysteria and panic on here seems to have dissipated since I was last on. Maybe a sign of the times…

    A very merry Christmas to ALL PBers - enjoy it!
  • @BartholomewRoberts you know a lot about fanaticism, you're the biggest BoJo fan here!

    I was, I liked the liberal Boris of 2019. I don't like the authoritarian, tax rising Boris of 2021.

    Kate Andrews put it better than I could earlier today: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/22/tories-will-speak-liberty/
    ROFL, if his popularity recovers you'll be his biggest fan again. You are never wrong.

    You'll be a Sunak fan if he takes over.

    HYUFD is partisan but at least he doesn't pretend otherwise. You must think we're all fools.
    The person who tipped Sunak for next PM at 250/1 having put his own money where his mouth is first might be a Sunak fan if he takes over?

    Wow. No shit Sherlock. What a great insight that is.

    I was a Boris fan because I liked what Boris had to say. Boris isn't doing anymore what he had to say, that's why he's lost my support. It isn't rocket science. I personally think Boris has been broken by Covid, its all become too much for him and he needs to retire.

    If Covid goes away as an issue in the new year, Boris returns to his old self, and starts fulfilling the promises he made two years ago then yes he could win my support back. And if he gets popular again, its because there'll be lots of other people thinking the same, that's not partisanship. But if he stays this mess he is at the minute, that's not happening and he needs to be replaced.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    It's the "wavering" that is most fascinating, if BoJo recovers he'll be supporting him again
    You are utterly ridiculous

    Boris is gone for me and I am campaigning to achieve that aim as soon as possible

    But then your devotion to Corbyn was total but now it seems you think that Starmer is the new Blair

    You swan around here and pretend you're some of impartial bystander, you flip flop on the Tories every day at this point!
    There's nothing wrong with flip flopping, it shows that you're not a partisan loyalist and are actually thinking for yourself, which is what Big G does.

    Its very easy to be a consistent party supporter like yourself or HYUFD, all it takes is to suspend your critical thinking and to adopt a party like a football club through thick and thin.
    You're a partisan loyalist, one of the most partisan people here!

    As I mentioned before, I've voted Tory and Lib Dem...
    There's a difference between being opinionated and being partisan.

    I support whichever party or politician matches my opinions, I don't change my opinions to match a party or politician.
    You literally do though, you're literally one of the most partisan people here.
    I literally don't. I stick to my own opinions, whether my opinions are party policy or not. If the party goes against my principles, I say so.

    I don't think you know what the word partisan means if you think that is partisan.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    edited December 2021
    Former French Prime Minister Francois Fillon joins supervisory board of Russia’s oil company Sibur.

    https://twitter.com/linkeviciusl/status/1474115849581740033

    image
  • Trussy one of that select group who weren't sure Jim was an absolute wrong un' for years before his death. Also includes the sainted Margaret and the Royal Family of course.


    Seen Louis Theroux's doco on Saville? Filmed in, literally, the restaurant Truss mentions.

    There are many reasons to criticise Truss and, no doubt, many more will emerge. But farewelling the odious Savile, as many, many Loiners did, is not one of them.
  • Trussy one of that select group who weren't sure Jim was an absolute wrong un' for years before his death. Also includes the sainted Margaret and the Royal Family of course.


    Seen Louis Theroux's doco on Saville? Filmed in, literally, the restaurant Truss mentions.

    There are many reasons to criticise Truss and, no doubt, many more will emerge. But farewelling the odious Savile, as many, many Loiners did, is not one of them.
    She could have resisted the temptation to poop out a banality on Twitter. Actually, tbf that's the sort of temptation she would be entirely unable to resist, now and then.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835

    Trussy one of that select group who weren't sure Jim was an absolute wrong un' for years before his death. Also includes the sainted Margaret and the Royal Family of course.


    Seen Louis Theroux's doco on Saville? Filmed in, literally, the restaurant Truss mentions.

    There are many reasons to criticise Truss and, no doubt, many more will emerge. But farewelling the odious Savile, as many, many Loiners did, is not one of them.
    Although it may suggest Loiners as a collective may be lacking in a certain entry level judgement.
  • dixiedean said:

    Aslan said:

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know why people persist with the myth that Christmas has anything to do with a baby two thousand years ago.
    I know, it’s the same at Easter. You can be perfectly happy eating chocolate mini eggs and using a few days off to redecorate the spare room, yet these annoying killjoys keep trying to bring religion into it.
    Personally I think we need to take Easter back to its pagan roots. I am sick of it being perverted by all these recent add ons about crucifixions and caves.
    It would be nice if schools could educate people about the real histories of holidays. There is some historical evidence to show that 25 December was a holiday to celebrity a birthday, but it was celebrating the birth of the Zoroastrian sun god Mithra not a baby.

    The interconnections of a Persian sun god [as perceived by the Romans], Roman traditions and the Norse traditions all form a fascinating history of the festival we now know as Christmas and the traditions of food, merriment, drink and gifts etc that go with that have been celebrated now for well over two and a half thousand years.

    Except for when the Puritans tried and failed to cancel it. So that brings cancel culture into the conversation too.
    In Taiwan it is Chiang kai-Shek's birthday, a national holiday. Also known as Christmas. Pretty much everywhere has a mid-winter booze and feast.
    Australians have Christmas in the summer.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    The PM calling on Jesus Christ as backup.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/24/covid-booster-jab-boris-johnson-christmas-message

    PM : "What can we do to address our collapse in popularity?"
    All: " Christ alone knows."
  • Golly, first time I've seen this pop up on twitter. New, kinder, gentler etc..



    This is the post it was underneath.

    https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1474140394002661386?s=20

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    Golly, first time I've seen this pop up on twitter. New, kinder, gentler etc..



    This is the post it was underneath.

    https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1474140394002661386?s=20

    Don Winslow has written some *really* great books. His novel on the Mexican drug gangs (The Power of the Dog) is absolutely superb.
  • Ecuador says COVID-19 vaccination is mandatory for all citizens over the age 5
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    dixiedean said:

    The PM calling on Jesus Christ as backup.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/24/covid-booster-jab-boris-johnson-christmas-message

    PM : "What can we do to address our collapse in popularity?"
    All: " Christ alone knows."

    He missed a trick.

    A great sermon, delivered with some clarity, certainly compared to his usual efforts, and a combed head of hair. But why didn't he finish the job and dress up as the Archbishop of Canterbury...or the Queen?
  • Ecuador says COVID-19 vaccination is mandatory for all citizens over the age 5

    They don't know when to Quito?
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    edited December 2021
    Difficult decision ahead in terms of whether to give a 4th vaccine with the immunity of the booster waning after 10 weeks.

    Do we start giving out a 4th jab in the New Year particularly aimed at the over 60s, those vulnerable and those who work in healthcare settings who had their boosters back in October and November. This is what Israel is starting to do right now and we have followed their lead often during this pandemic.

    Or do we wait for an Omicron designed vaccine from Pfizer, Moderna et al.

    The worry is that Omicron is mainly affecting the young right now as the vaccine wall from the booster is protecting older people and those vulnerable. But the vaccine could be about to wane for millions of people in the demographic groups in which we don't know what Omicron's real severity is. Look at the research including the Scotland study, not enough data when it comes to people over 65 and how they fare with Omicron.

    Get Christmas out at the way first but the government needs to be on the ball with this in the new year.
  • - ”The big if is whether he can restore confidence in his leadership and he is going to need to change his whole approach.”

    Boris cannot change. He only has one act, and everybody has seen the performance far too many times. It is stale.

    He has passed a point of no return, not only because of this inability to grow, develop and improve, but also because confidence is a funny thing: once a person has lost it, it is almost impossible to regain.
  • German import prices rose by 3.0% in November and by 24.7% on a year ago. (Analysts had expected 1.1% and 22.3%.)

    A lot of younger people won’t even remember inflation. They are about to learn a fundamental economic lesson the hard way.

    Just as well the UK government hasn’t borrowed too much.

    Oh!

    Just as well the UK government is keeping prices down by retaining membership of the biggest single market on the planet.

    Oh!

    Just as well households haven’t over-borrowed and gambled money they don’t have on the stock markets.

    Oh!

    The list of extremely hard lessons about to be learned is very long.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    edited December 2021
    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    I've been looking at Linkedin. People are going mad over COVID. People virtue signalling to their professional network about going in to self solation over Christmas. A QC was berating one of his (unidentified) juniors for being a sceptical about vaccines when they were having a debate on the subject. Covid is a bit like the new Brexit: don't talk about it, you will turn in to an idiot and it will make you go mad. Just don't say anything at all about it in a professional context, ever; as nothing good can come of it and only embarrassment and humiliation will follow.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050

    German import prices rose by 3.0% in November and by 24.7% on a year ago. (Analysts had expected 1.1% and 22.3%.)

    A lot of younger people won’t even remember inflation. They are about to learn a fundamental economic lesson the hard way.

    Just as well the UK government hasn’t borrowed too much.

    Oh!

    Just as well the UK government is keeping prices down by retaining membership of the biggest single market on the planet.

    Oh!

    Just as well households haven’t over-borrowed and gambled money they don’t have on the stock markets.
    The effect of inflation on equities though is less clear
    Oh!

    The list of extremely hard lessons about to be learned is very long.

    I agree that no one under 50 remembers real inflation and the problems that it brings. The effect on equities is less clear, so I am remaining invested. It was a major bear market in the Seventies but I think it more likely to reach inflation figures of the Eighties.
  • German import prices rose by 3.0% in November and by 24.7% on a year ago. (Analysts had expected 1.1% and 22.3%.)

    A lot of younger people won’t even remember inflation. They are about to learn a fundamental economic lesson the hard way.

    Just as well the UK government hasn’t borrowed too much.

    Oh!

    Just as well the UK government is keeping prices down by retaining membership of the biggest single market on the planet.

    Oh!

    Just as well households haven’t over-borrowed and gambled money they don’t have on the stock markets.

    Oh!

    The list of extremely hard lessons about to be learned is very long.

    If only we had just left the sclerotic and protectionist Single Market.

    Oh!

    If only we were able to sign deals now for even cheaper food etc from countries that sell competitive and cheap exports like Australia?

    Oh!

    It's not as if young people have faced rampant inflation in their housing costs for decades now though?

    Oh!

    Still housing doesn't matter, it's not the largest single cost even higher than food for people is it?

    Oh!

    But wages have kept up with house prices haven't they?

    Oh!

    Inflation won't be a bad, new thing for young people. It's something they've had to deal with continuously forever.

    Their cosy, cosseted landlords and elders who own their own home and mistakenly thought inflation had gone away instead of entirely concentrated upon the young might be in for a nasty shock though.
  • darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,699
    darkage said:

    I've been looking at Linkedin. People are going mad over COVID. People virtue signalling to their professional network about going in to self solation over Christmas. A QC was berating one of his (unidentified) juniors for being a sceptical about vaccines when they were having a debate on the subject. Covid is a bit like the new Brexit: don't talk about it, you will turn in to an idiot and it will make you go mad. Just don't say anything at all about it in a professional context, ever; as nothing good can come of it and only embarrassment and humiliation will follow.

    LinkedIn is an embarrassment these days. It’s more and more like Facebook with each passing week.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Roberts, sounds like you like the Boris Johnson who does what Cummings tells him, but not the Boris Johnson who does what his wife commands.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Foxy said:

    I don't know why people persist with the myth that Christmas has anything to do with a baby two thousand years ago.
    The clue is in the name. Christ Mass...

    Though I stand with my Calvinist ancestors, tis naught but Popery.
    Anyone can stick a name on something!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,154
    edited December 2021

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Roberts, sounds like you like the Boris Johnson who does what Cummings tells him, but not the Boris Johnson who does what his wife commands.

    LOL but no. I've been regularly reading his articles since about the turn of the century and like what he has or had to say, not just Cummings.

    I think he's been broken by Covid not his wife. He seems scared of every shadow, scared of rocking the boat, scared of saying no to SAGE and things go wrong. Scared of telling the Treasury or Civil Servants to change. Even scared of invoking Article 16 and having a confrontation with Europe.

    I think he's lost his nerve and gone native and Sir Humphrey is running the show now.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
    Lots of people have been saying Covid is 'over' since the middle of 2020; I even remember one wise and sagacious poster whose name no longer graces these pages keep on saying, week after week, that we had reached herd immunity - only for cases and deaths to keep on coming.

    Covid has had a habit of making fools of us all (although some more than most...), and IMV we need to ensure that every weapons in our arsenal is ready to aim at it; even if we choose not to unleash the weapons.

    There is no certainty in the current situation, although (as I keep on saying), I am hopeful.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Good morning everybody. Unseasonably warm round here.

    Inclined to agree with Mr Dancer's thoughts at 6.37; Our PM seems to need direction from someone, rather than leading himself. A good position for a commentating journalist; not so good for a PM.

    Presents all wrapped Chez Cole; job later this morning is to collect the already ordered and paid for turkey from the local farm shop and set off for son-in-law's where the family is gathering.

    Don't intend to discuss politics for the next couple of days, after I've signed off here.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    TimS said:

    Charles said:

    The German-Baltic Chamber of Commerce has written to the Lithuanian government warning that German investors may close their plants in the country unless a "constructive solution to restore Lithuanian-Chinese economic relations" is found

    https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1474039233052659718

    Germany really are a mercantilist nation. Shameful.
    To be fair this is a chamber of commerce ie an industry group not the government. Still, what with this and Nordstream2 there does seem to be a degree of realpolitik gone mad in some corners of the German economy.
    The Nordstream debate is interesting, as it's a wedge between the new German government partners. It's built, ready to use, and would help dampen the soaring gas price. Everyone agrees that if Russia actually attacked Ukraine then it shouldn't be opened for a long time, if ever. The SPD and CDU are in favour of opening it if they don't, the Greens are against, both because they don't like gas (fossil fuel) and they don't like Russia (and do like Ukraine). Not sure what the FDP thinks - does anyone know?

    The obvious deal to be done is for Putin to stop willy-waving and the pipeline to open after a few months, after which it becomes a profitable lever to restrain Putin from a return to willy-waving. I think that's what will happen in the end, but Putin is populist enough to be unpredictable.
    FDP voters are among the most positive toward the project.
  • darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
    Lots of people have been saying Covid is 'over' since the middle of 2020; I even remember one wise and sagacious poster whose name no longer graces these pages keep on saying, week after week, that we had reached herd immunity - only for cases and deaths to keep on coming.

    Covid has had a habit of making fools of us all (although some more than most...), and IMV we need to ensure that every weapons in our arsenal is ready to aim at it; even if we choose not to unleash the weapons.

    There is no certainty in the current situation, although (as I keep on saying), I am hopeful.
    Covid will never be 'over'.

    We had reached herd immunity though since cases were plateaued and not exponentially growing.

    The virus has evolved since.

    Restrictions are weapons against the public not the virus.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    AlistairM said:

    Aslan said:

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know why people persist with the myth that Christmas has anything to do with a baby two thousand years ago.
    I know, it’s the same at Easter. You can be perfectly happy eating chocolate mini eggs and using a few days off to redecorate the spare room, yet these annoying killjoys keep trying to bring religion into it.
    Personally I think we need to take Easter back to its pagan roots. I am sick of it being perverted by all these recent add ons about crucifixions and caves.
    It would be nice if schools could educate people about the real histories of holidays. There is some historical evidence to show that 25 December was a holiday to celebrity a birthday, but it was celebrating the birth of the Zoroastrian sun god Mithra not a baby.

    The interconnections of a Persian sun god [as perceived by the Romans], Roman traditions and the Norse traditions all form a fascinating history of the festival we now know as Christmas and the traditions of food, merriment, drink and gifts etc that go with that have been celebrated now for well over two and a half thousand years.

    Except for when the Puritans tried and failed to cancel it. So that brings cancel culture into the conversation too.
    I wonder who was there to record Mithra's birth on 25th December? All this stuff is made up anyway so it doesn't really matter in the end which religion has overwritten the previous one. I like to see it as a way to celebrate the passing of the shortest day of the year and that Spring will be on the way.
    Oh absolutely that's what its about. That's what its always been about.

    Its just amusing when people bemoan feasting and drinking and gift giving etc as not being "the true meaning" of the holiday.

    They literally are "the true meaning" and have been for about two and a half thousand years at least, minus the puritan era.

    When the Church adopted Saturnalia as the birth of Jesus, society kept all the Pagan festivities which have largely passed through to today, despite the best wishes of the Puritans to stamp them out.
    It’s funny how non-believers feel the need to denigrate other people’s faith.

    It suggests a certain lack of confidence

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Foxy said:

    German import prices rose by 3.0% in November and by 24.7% on a year ago. (Analysts had expected 1.1% and 22.3%.)

    A lot of younger people won’t even remember inflation. They are about to learn a fundamental economic lesson the hard way.

    Just as well the UK government hasn’t borrowed too much.

    Oh!

    Just as well the UK government is keeping prices down by retaining membership of the biggest single market on the planet.

    Oh!

    Just as well households haven’t over-borrowed and gambled money they don’t have on the stock markets.
    The effect of inflation on equities though is less clear
    Oh!

    The list of extremely hard lessons about to be learned is very long.

    I agree that no one under 50 remembers real inflation and the problems that it brings. The effect on equities is less clear, so I am remaining invested. It was a major bear market in the Seventies but I think it more likely to reach inflation figures of the Eighties.
    Normally the market seems to be the last to learn such things, then realises, all in a day. Partly because it seems able to worry only about one thing at a time.

    So I’d expect a positive start to next year as we celebrate the receding of the pandemic, and then there’ll come a reckoning when the market panics about inflation - and significantly negative interest rates, the other transformative financial development - both things that I have been predicting here back when most thought them unlikely. So pencil in some sort of correction, or worse, for next year.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    edited December 2021
    jonny83 said:

    Difficult decision ahead in terms of whether to give a 4th vaccine with the immunity of the booster waning after 10 weeks.

    Do we start giving out a 4th jab in the New Year particularly aimed at the over 60s, those vulnerable and those who work in healthcare settings who had their boosters back in October and November. This is what Israel is starting to do right now and we have followed their lead often during this pandemic.

    Or do we wait for an Omicron designed vaccine from Pfizer, Moderna et al.

    The worry is that Omicron is mainly affecting the young right now as the vaccine wall from the booster is protecting older people and those vulnerable. But the vaccine could be about to wane for millions of people in the demographic groups in which we don't know what Omicron's real severity is. Look at the research including the Scotland study, not enough data when it comes to people over 65 and how they fare with Omicron.

    Get Christmas out at the way first but the government needs to be on the ball with this in the new year.

    Hang on:

    In an individual, vaccine efficacy (ignoring for a moment different variants) is *always* changing.

    During the initial post injection period, antibody response rises and rises... then after a certain point, it starts to slowly decline.

    So (lazily using efficacy number), you might have someone who has 60% protection against symptomatic Delta at the point of booster. Over the following - say - three weeks that will rise to 95% or so. It will then start to wane at a rate of (say) 1.5% per week. (Not 1.5 percentage points, 1.5%.)

    That means it'll take eight to nine months before you get back to the efficacy pre-booster.

    The question - therefore - is "at what efficacy level do you think you need to boost protection again?"

    80% against hospitalisation? 75%?

    What's the figure?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Roberts, sounds like you like the Boris Johnson who does what Cummings tells him, but not the Boris Johnson who does what his wife commands.

    LOL but no. I've been regularly reading his articles since about the turn of the century and like what he has or had to say, not just Cummings.

    I think he's been broken by Covid not his wife. He seems scared of every shadow, scared of rocking the boat, scared of saying no to SAGE and things go wrong. Scared of telling the Treasury or Civil Servants to change. Even scared of invoking Article 16 and having a confrontation with Europe.

    I think he's lost his nerve and gone native and Sir Humphrey is running the show now.
    Johnson and the scientists are not just chewing the cud on the Internet. They are having to make real decisions that affect the lives of tens of millions of people - and the potential deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands. If you have a conscience, then that may eventually get to you.

    It's not even the same as sending people to war nowadays, as those people (outside conscription) have chosen to join the military. And at the end there will be an inquiry acting with hindsight, looking to blame someone for deaths and disruption that may, or may not, have been avoidable.
  • BBC News:
    ‘Brexit: One year on, the economic impact is starting to show’

    A year on from the signing of the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement - the real economic start of Brexit - we can start to see some of the changes in how Britain trades.

    In broad terms, this is what the numbers show, so far:
    Great Britain avoided the "reasonable worst case scenarios" of a stop to cross channel trade with massive social and economic challenges
    There was a significant material hit to trade both ways, especially in the first two months
    From those lows, UK exports recovered in later months, but not fully and some sectors such as clothing and food are still struggling
    Total UK-EU trade (both ways) missed out on a global rebound in trade in 2021, and remained at the very low levels of the 2020 pandemic
    Trade with the Republic of Ireland has slumped from Great Britain, boomed from Northern Ireland.

    After a year of Brexit, the UK economy appears to be less open or less global than it was before.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59761292
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
    Lots of people have been saying Covid is 'over' since the middle of 2020; I even remember one wise and sagacious poster whose name no longer graces these pages keep on saying, week after week, that we had reached herd immunity - only for cases and deaths to keep on coming.

    Covid has had a habit of making fools of us all (although some more than most...), and IMV we need to ensure that every weapons in our arsenal is ready to aim at it; even if we choose not to unleash the weapons.

    There is no certainty in the current situation, although (as I keep on saying), I am hopeful.
    Covid will never be 'over'.

    We had reached herd immunity though since cases were plateaued and not exponentially growing.

    The virus has evolved since.

    Restrictions are weapons against the public not the virus.
    I'm pretty sure that we had not reach herd immunity under any reasonable definition of that term.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    TimS said:

    Charles said:

    The German-Baltic Chamber of Commerce has written to the Lithuanian government warning that German investors may close their plants in the country unless a "constructive solution to restore Lithuanian-Chinese economic relations" is found

    https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1474039233052659718

    Germany really are a mercantilist nation. Shameful.
    To be fair this is a chamber of commerce ie an industry group not the government. Still, what with this and Nordstream2 there does seem to be a degree of realpolitik gone mad in some corners of the German economy.
    The Nordstream debate is interesting, as it's a wedge between the new German government partners. It's built, ready to use, and would help dampen the soaring gas price. Everyone agrees that if Russia actually attacked Ukraine then it shouldn't be opened for a long time, if ever. The SPD and CDU are in favour of opening it if they don't, the Greens are against, both because they don't like gas (fossil fuel) and they don't like Russia (and do like Ukraine). Not sure what the FDP thinks - does anyone know?

    The obvious deal to be done is for Putin to stop willy-waving and the pipeline to open after a few months, after which it becomes a profitable lever to restrain Putin from a return to willy-waving. I think that's what will happen in the end, but Putin is populist enough to be unpredictable.
    Putin doesn’t care about profits.

    Nordstream 2 absolutely fucks Ukraine.

    It allows Russia to bypass them and cut off the transit fees.

    It will be a strategic calamity for the West.

    But Gerhard Schroeder and other German politicians are richer than they were.
  • Charles said:

    AlistairM said:

    Aslan said:

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know why people persist with the myth that Christmas has anything to do with a baby two thousand years ago.
    I know, it’s the same at Easter. You can be perfectly happy eating chocolate mini eggs and using a few days off to redecorate the spare room, yet these annoying killjoys keep trying to bring religion into it.
    Personally I think we need to take Easter back to its pagan roots. I am sick of it being perverted by all these recent add ons about crucifixions and caves.
    It would be nice if schools could educate people about the real histories of holidays. There is some historical evidence to show that 25 December was a holiday to celebrity a birthday, but it was celebrating the birth of the Zoroastrian sun god Mithra not a baby.

    The interconnections of a Persian sun god [as perceived by the Romans], Roman traditions and the Norse traditions all form a fascinating history of the festival we now know as Christmas and the traditions of food, merriment, drink and gifts etc that go with that have been celebrated now for well over two and a half thousand years.

    Except for when the Puritans tried and failed to cancel it. So that brings cancel culture into the conversation too.
    I wonder who was there to record Mithra's birth on 25th December? All this stuff is made up anyway so it doesn't really matter in the end which religion has overwritten the previous one. I like to see it as a way to celebrate the passing of the shortest day of the year and that Spring will be on the way.
    Oh absolutely that's what its about. That's what its always been about.

    Its just amusing when people bemoan feasting and drinking and gift giving etc as not being "the true meaning" of the holiday.

    They literally are "the true meaning" and have been for about two and a half thousand years at least, minus the puritan era.

    When the Church adopted Saturnalia as the birth of Jesus, society kept all the Pagan festivities which have largely passed through to today, despite the best wishes of the Puritans to stamp them out.
    It’s funny how non-believers feel the need to denigrate other people’s faith.

    It suggests a certain lack of confidence

    I think you have the wrong end of the stick and missed the start of the conversation. Watch the silly video at the start of the conversation: https://twitter.com/AccidentalP/status/1474064063235825666

    Responding to that has nothing to do with denigrating others faith, just denying that Christmas has anything to do with your faith.

    The activities described in that video aren't some bastardisation of Christmas, they're what Christmas has been about for about two and a half thousand years already.

    Enjoy your faith in whatever way you please, it's no skin off my nose, just don't claim Yule traditions as being anything to do with your faith. They don't.
  • Trussy one of that select group who weren't sure Jim was an absolute wrong un' for years before his death. Also includes the sainted Margaret and the Royal Family of course.


    Sad news about #JimmySavile. Once had lovely chat with him in Franco's at Central Station. A real treat for a child of the Jim'll Fix It era
    5:32 PM · Oct 29, 2011·Twitter for iPhone


    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/130321215813464064?s=20
  • AlistairM said:

    Aslan said:

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know why people persist with the myth that Christmas has anything to do with a baby two thousand years ago.
    I know, it’s the same at Easter. You can be perfectly happy eating chocolate mini eggs and using a few days off to redecorate the spare room, yet these annoying killjoys keep trying to bring religion into it.
    Personally I think we need to take Easter back to its pagan roots. I am sick of it being perverted by all these recent add ons about crucifixions and caves.
    It would be nice if schools could educate people about the real histories of holidays. There is some historical evidence to show that 25 December was a holiday to celebrity a birthday, but it was celebrating the birth of the Zoroastrian sun god Mithra not a baby.

    The interconnections of a Persian sun god [as perceived by the Romans], Roman traditions and the Norse traditions all form a fascinating history of the festival we now know as Christmas and the traditions of food, merriment, drink and gifts etc that go with that have been celebrated now for well over two and a half thousand years.

    Except for when the Puritans tried and failed to cancel it. So that brings cancel culture into the conversation too.
    I wonder who was there to record Mithra's birth on 25th December? All this stuff is made up anyway so it doesn't really matter in the end which religion has overwritten the previous one. I like to see it as a way to celebrate the passing of the shortest day of the year and that Spring will be on the way.
    Oh absolutely that's what its about. That's what its always been about.

    Its just amusing when people bemoan feasting and drinking and gift giving etc as not being "the true meaning" of the holiday.

    They literally are "the true meaning" and have been for about two and a half thousand years at least, minus the puritan era.

    When the Church adopted Saturnalia as the birth of Jesus, society kept all the Pagan festivities which have largely passed through to today, despite the best wishes of the Puritans to stamp them out.
    Puritan Philip accuses others of being puritanical.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,179

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Roberts, sounds like you like the Boris Johnson who does what Cummings tells him, but not the Boris Johnson who does what his wife commands.

    LOL but no. I've been regularly reading his articles since about the turn of the century and like what he has or had to say, not just Cummings.

    I think he's been broken by Covid not his wife. He seems scared of every shadow, scared of rocking the boat, scared of saying no to SAGE and things go wrong. Scared of telling the Treasury or Civil Servants to change. Even scared of invoking Article 16 and having a confrontation with Europe.

    I think he's lost his nerve and gone native and Sir Humphrey is running the show now.
    I think what might have given him the political equivalent of shell shock is that getting things done in office is actually incredibly difficult. He was able to surf as Mayor, because he had a good execution team. As foreign secretary he was terrible-among the weakest in history-but foreign secretaries don't actually do very much. He has no executive skills and his team is too weak to take the load.
  • Mr. Roberts, not great for the PM that the argument is about whose thumb he's currently under.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Golly, first time I've seen this pop up on twitter. New, kinder, gentler etc..



    This is the post it was underneath.

    https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1474140394002661386?s=20

    Interesting that “Black” is capitalised while “white” is not. Suggests the latter is a description and the former a category. Which is revealing about the way the author thinks.

    Or it may just be a typo…
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Roberts, sounds like you like the Boris Johnson who does what Cummings tells him, but not the Boris Johnson who does what his wife commands.

    LOL but no. I've been regularly reading his articles since about the turn of the century and like what he has or had to say, not just Cummings.

    I think he's been broken by Covid not his wife. He seems scared of every shadow, scared of rocking the boat, scared of saying no to SAGE and things go wrong. Scared of telling the Treasury or Civil Servants to change. Even scared of invoking Article 16 and having a confrontation with Europe.

    I think he's lost his nerve and gone native and Sir Humphrey is running the show now.
    Johnson and the scientists are not just chewing the cud on the Internet. They are having to make real decisions that affect the lives of tens of millions of people - and the potential deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands. If you have a conscience, then that may eventually get to you.

    It's not even the same as sending people to war nowadays, as those people (outside conscription) have chosen to join the military. And at the end there will be an inquiry acting with hindsight, looking to blame someone for deaths and disruption that may, or may not, have been avoidable.
    Indeed and that's broken him.

    Many good PMs last a decade before they break. Boris has had a decades worth of "events" in a two year period.

    The inquiry should look at more than just "deaths".
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    German import prices rose by 3.0% in November and by 24.7% on a year ago. (Analysts had expected 1.1% and 22.3%.)

    A lot of younger people won’t even remember inflation. They are about to learn a fundamental economic lesson the hard way.

    Just as well the UK government hasn’t borrowed too much.

    Oh!

    Just as well the UK government is keeping prices down by retaining membership of the biggest single market on the planet.

    Oh!

    Just as well households haven’t over-borrowed and gambled money they don’t have on the stock markets.

    Oh!

    The list of extremely hard lessons about to be learned is very long.

    One and a half out of three right.

    Probably worth a C, May be a B- if I am feeling generous
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050

    darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
    Lots of people have been saying Covid is 'over' since the middle of 2020; I even remember one wise and sagacious poster whose name no longer graces these pages keep on saying, week after week, that we had reached herd immunity - only for cases and deaths to keep on coming.

    Covid has had a habit of making fools of us all (although some more than most...), and IMV we need to ensure that every weapons in our arsenal is ready to aim at it; even if we choose not to unleash the weapons.

    There is no certainty in the current situation, although (as I keep on saying), I am hopeful.
    Covid will never be 'over'.

    We had reached herd immunity though since cases were plateaued and not exponentially growing.

    The virus has evolved since.

    Restrictions are weapons against the public not the virus.
    I'm pretty sure that we had not reach herd immunity under any reasonable definition of that term.
    The reinfection rate with Omicron does rather suggest that herd immunity is a myth.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    German import prices rose by 3.0% in November and by 24.7% on a year ago. (Analysts had expected 1.1% and 22.3%.)

    A lot of younger people won’t even remember inflation. They are about to learn a fundamental economic lesson the hard way.

    Just as well the UK government hasn’t borrowed too much.

    Oh!

    Just as well the UK government is keeping prices down by retaining membership of the biggest single market on the planet.

    Oh!

    Just as well households haven’t over-borrowed and gambled money they don’t have on the stock markets.
    The effect of inflation on equities though is less clear
    Oh!

    The list of extremely hard lessons about to be learned is very long.

    I agree that no one under 50 remembers real inflation and the problems that it brings. The effect on equities is less clear, so I am remaining invested. It was a major bear market in the Seventies but I think it more likely to reach inflation figures of the Eighties.
    Generally a leveraged bet on assets (equities) is a sensible strategy in inflationary times
  • darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
    Lots of people have been saying Covid is 'over' since the middle of 2020; I even remember one wise and sagacious poster whose name no longer graces these pages keep on saying, week after week, that we had reached herd immunity - only for cases and deaths to keep on coming.

    Covid has had a habit of making fools of us all (although some more than most...), and IMV we need to ensure that every weapons in our arsenal is ready to aim at it; even if we choose not to unleash the weapons.

    There is no certainty in the current situation, although (as I keep on saying), I am hopeful.
    Covid will never be 'over'.

    We had reached herd immunity though since cases were plateaued and not exponentially growing.

    The virus has evolved since.

    Restrictions are weapons against the public not the virus.
    I'm pretty sure that we had not reach herd immunity under any reasonable definition of that term.
    If we hadn't, why weren't cases growing exponentially?

    Some people mistakenly believe that herd immunity means that a virus disappears, it doesn't. It just means that R is kept to about 1 or below which is what was keeping cases flat at 40k per week.
  • darkage said:

    I've been looking at Linkedin. People are going mad over COVID. People virtue signalling to their professional network about going in to self solation over Christmas. A QC was berating one of his (unidentified) juniors for being a sceptical about vaccines when they were having a debate on the subject. Covid is a bit like the new Brexit: don't talk about it, you will turn in to an idiot and it will make you go mad. Just don't say anything at all about it in a professional context, ever; as nothing good can come of it and only embarrassment and humiliation will follow.

    - “Covid is a bit like the new Brexit: don't talk about it, you will turn in to an idiot and it will make you go mad.”

    Spot on.

    Exhibit A: Big G making a tit of himself over “Drakefool” (sic)

    You see, read and hear a lot of absolute shite from people you assumed were reasonably intelligent. It confirms my suspicion, reinforced by decades of experience, that an awful lot of intelligent people are not clever, whereas a lot of people with supposedly low intelligence are in fact extremely clever. One of the reasons the modern obsession with qualifications (secondary and tertiary) is time and energy pissed up the wall.

    PB is full of absolute nonsense about Covid19. It is very obviously being used as a proxy for deeper political arguments. My advice would be to just shut up about it for a while. It really is very, very, very boring. And you all look like complete tits.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Roberts, sounds like you like the Boris Johnson who does what Cummings tells him, but not the Boris Johnson who does what his wife commands.

    LOL but no. I've been regularly reading his articles since about the turn of the century and like what he has or had to say, not just Cummings.

    I think he's been broken by Covid not his wife. He seems scared of every shadow, scared of rocking the boat, scared of saying no to SAGE and things go wrong. Scared of telling the Treasury or Civil Servants to change. Even scared of invoking Article 16 and having a confrontation with Europe.

    I think he's lost his nerve and gone native and Sir Humphrey is running the show now.
    Johnson and the scientists are not just chewing the cud on the Internet. They are having to make real decisions that affect the lives of tens of millions of people - and the potential deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands. If you have a conscience, then that may eventually get to you.

    It's not even the same as sending people to war nowadays, as those people (outside conscription) have chosen to join the military. And at the end there will be an inquiry acting with hindsight, looking to blame someone for deaths and disruption that may, or may not, have been avoidable.
    Indeed and that's broken him.

    Many good PMs last a decade before they break. Boris has had a decades worth of "events" in a two year period.

    The inquiry should look at more than just "deaths".
    Of course it should: and it should also be very careful about how it judges decisions with hindsight, rather than what was known at the time.

    However, deaths are a very easy thing for the media and opponents to concentrate on, and therefore they will. I already hear the 'Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice' pop up on the media; I'll expect their voice to be rather loud around the inquiry.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
    Lots of people have been saying Covid is 'over' since the middle of 2020; I even remember one wise and sagacious poster whose name no longer graces these pages keep on saying, week after week, that we had reached herd immunity - only for cases and deaths to keep on coming.

    Covid has had a habit of making fools of us all (although some more than most...), and IMV we need to ensure that every weapons in our arsenal is ready to aim at it; even if we choose not to unleash the weapons.

    There is no certainty in the current situation, although (as I keep on saying), I am hopeful.
    Covid will never be 'over'.

    We had reached herd immunity though since cases were plateaued and not exponentially growing.

    The virus has evolved since.

    Restrictions are weapons against the public not the virus.
    I'm pretty sure that we had not reach herd immunity under any reasonable definition of that term.
    If we hadn't, why weren't cases growing exponentially?

    Some people mistakenly believe that herd immunity means that a virus disappears, it doesn't. It just means that R is kept to about 1 or below which is what was keeping cases flat at 40k per week.
    Can you show me your definition of 'herd immunity' please, from a reputable source?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,779
    rcs1000 said:

    jonny83 said:

    Difficult decision ahead in terms of whether to give a 4th vaccine with the immunity of the booster waning after 10 weeks.

    Do we start giving out a 4th jab in the New Year particularly aimed at the over 60s, those vulnerable and those who work in healthcare settings who had their boosters back in October and November. This is what Israel is starting to do right now and we have followed their lead often during this pandemic.

    Or do we wait for an Omicron designed vaccine from Pfizer, Moderna et al.

    The worry is that Omicron is mainly affecting the young right now as the vaccine wall from the booster is protecting older people and those vulnerable. But the vaccine could be about to wane for millions of people in the demographic groups in which we don't know what Omicron's real severity is. Look at the research including the Scotland study, not enough data when it comes to people over 65 and how they fare with Omicron.

    Get Christmas out at the way first but the government needs to be on the ball with this in the new year.

    Hang on:

    In an individual, vaccine efficacy (ignoring for a moment different variants) is *always* changing.

    During the initial post injection period, antibody response rises and rises... then after a certain point, it starts to slowly decline.

    So (lazily using efficacy number), you might have someone who has 60% protection against symptomatic Delta at the point of booster. Over the following - say - three weeks that will rise to 95% or so. It will then start to wane at a rate of (say) 1.5% per week. (Not 1.5 percentage points, 1.5%.)

    That means it'll take eight to nine months before you get back to the efficacy pre-booster.

    The question - therefore - is "at what efficacy level do you think you need to boost protection again?"

    80% against hospitalisation? 75%?

    What's the figure?
    More important, perhaps, are:

    -supply (though this never seems to be an issue :) )
    -public sentiment

    As pointed out below, it doesn't seem like we will ever reach herd immunity due to re-infection. In the minds of many young people, myself included, the social contract was that restrictions would ease as boosters were delivered.

    Hibs fans and, weirdly, Roddy Dunlop both pointed this breach out yesterday. What's the point in 3, 4, 5 jabs for young people if we make no progress towards normality?

    You won't find me cycling out to the Royal Highland show in the rain again to get jab number 4.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    A year ago I would have said that Big G was one of the most respected, likeable and liked posters on PB.

    A year is a long time in blogland.
  • darkage said:

    I've been looking at Linkedin. People are going mad over COVID. People virtue signalling to their professional network about going in to self solation over Christmas. A QC was berating one of his (unidentified) juniors for being a sceptical about vaccines when they were having a debate on the subject. Covid is a bit like the new Brexit: don't talk about it, you will turn in to an idiot and it will make you go mad. Just don't say anything at all about it in a professional context, ever; as nothing good can come of it and only embarrassment and humiliation will follow.

    - “Covid is a bit like the new Brexit: don't talk about it, you will turn in to an idiot and it will make you go mad.”

    Spot on.

    Exhibit A: Big G making a tit of himself over “Drakefool” (sic)

    You see, read and hear a lot of absolute shite from people you assumed were reasonably intelligent. It confirms my suspicion, reinforced by decades of experience, that an awful lot of intelligent people are not clever, whereas a lot of people with supposedly low intelligence are in fact extremely clever. One of the reasons the modern obsession with qualifications (secondary and tertiary) is time and energy pissed up the wall.

    PB is full of absolute nonsense about Covid19. It is very obviously being used as a proxy for deeper political arguments. My advice would be to just shut up about it for a while. It really is very, very, very boring. And you all look like complete tits.
    Problem is though if we don't say anything and JRM/Gove are still saying the experts know nothing, then who is actually driving the bus? Tiger Woods?
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    This piece from Patrick Vallance appears to be a response to Fraser Nelson's worst scenarios story...

    It’s not true Covid modellers look only at worst outcomes.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/its-not-true-covid-modellers-look-only-at-worst-outcomes-5c9pcpdwr
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,728

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know why people persist with the myth that Christmas has anything to do with a baby two thousand years ago.
    I know, it’s the same at Easter. You can be perfectly happy eating chocolate mini eggs and using a few days off to redecorate the spare room, yet these annoying killjoys keep trying to bring religion into it.
    The funny thing is that feasts, getting drunk and merriment are infinitely more "traditional" for Christmas than blathering on about a baby or a Church.

    Norse Yule and Roman Saturnalia predate the adoption of the holiday by the Church by about a thousand years. Its always been a holiday about eating and drinking far too much, its what our Norse and Roman ancestors would have been doing.

    Aslan said:

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know why people persist with the myth that Christmas has anything to do with a baby two thousand years ago.
    I know, it’s the same at Easter. You can be perfectly happy eating chocolate mini eggs and using a few days off to redecorate the spare room, yet these annoying killjoys keep trying to bring religion into it.
    Personally I think we need to take Easter back to its pagan roots. I am sick of it being perverted by all these recent add ons about crucifixions and caves.
    It would be nice if schools could educate people about the real histories of holidays. There is some historical evidence to show that 25 December was a holiday to celebrity a birthday, but it was celebrating the birth of the Zoroastrian sun god Mithra not a baby.

    The interconnections of a Persian sun god [as perceived by the Romans], Roman traditions and the Norse traditions all form a fascinating history of the festival we now know as Christmas and the traditions of food, merriment, drink and gifts etc that go with that have been celebrated now for well over two and a half thousand years.

    Except for when the Puritans tried and failed to cancel it. So that brings cancel culture into the conversation too.
    Well, schools won’t educate children on that version of it if they tell ‘the true story’ because although popular among online atheists that particular claim is totally untrue.

    This is probably the most accessible explanation as to why (it also explains why claims about a link to Yule are unfounded):

    https://historyforatheists.com/2020/12/pagan-christmas/
  • Charles said:

    German import prices rose by 3.0% in November and by 24.7% on a year ago. (Analysts had expected 1.1% and 22.3%.)

    A lot of younger people won’t even remember inflation. They are about to learn a fundamental economic lesson the hard way.

    Just as well the UK government hasn’t borrowed too much.

    Oh!

    Just as well the UK government is keeping prices down by retaining membership of the biggest single market on the planet.

    Oh!

    Just as well households haven’t over-borrowed and gambled money they don’t have on the stock markets.

    Oh!

    The list of extremely hard lessons about to be learned is very long.

    One and a half out of three right.

    Probably worth a C, May be a B- if I am feeling generous
    I’ll take that! Nice to know that an alumnus of Strathclyde Business School doesn’t talk total gibberish on the topic of economics.

    Out of interest, and to improve my scoring rate, where did I lose my one and a half points?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    edited December 2021
    Cicero said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Roberts, sounds like you like the Boris Johnson who does what Cummings tells him, but not the Boris Johnson who does what his wife commands.

    LOL but no. I've been regularly reading his articles since about the turn of the century and like what he has or had to say, not just Cummings.

    I think he's been broken by Covid not his wife. He seems scared of every shadow, scared of rocking the boat, scared of saying no to SAGE and things go wrong. Scared of telling the Treasury or Civil Servants to change. Even scared of invoking Article 16 and having a confrontation with Europe.

    I think he's lost his nerve and gone native and Sir Humphrey is running the show now.
    I think what might have given him the political equivalent of shell shock is that getting things done in office is actually incredibly difficult. He was able to surf as Mayor, because he had a good execution team. As foreign secretary he was terrible-among the weakest in history-but foreign secretaries don't actually do very much. He has no executive skills and his team is too weak to take the load.
    Yes, this is right, but also, Boris has never liked rivalry, is frightened of scrutiny and challenge, and - as we’ve seen numerous times - prizes loyalty from those working to him above good advice or even basic competence. I suspect this all stems from a deep fear of being found out to be the fraud that we now see he is.

    As Mayor, he could pick his team and he had executive authority over all of them. And he only relied on the voters for his appointment, which was guaranteed for the term.

    As PM, he has done his best to stuff his cabinet with yes-people, but ultimately he cannot avoid being surrounded by people with their own political power bases many of whom quite fancy his job. He can shuffle individuals up and down, but he can’t get rid of any of them - whereas they can get rid of him! It’s an entirely new power dynamic and one that he was always going to struggle with. Especially since he has an essentially negative view of human nature and doesn’t trust anyone, since he thinks everyone is as ambitious and unscrupulous as he is himself.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,879

    darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
    Lots of people have been saying Covid is 'over' since the middle of 2020; I even remember one wise and sagacious poster whose name no longer graces these pages keep on saying, week after week, that we had reached herd immunity - only for cases and deaths to keep on coming.

    Covid has had a habit of making fools of us all (although some more than most...), and IMV we need to ensure that every weapons in our arsenal is ready to aim at it; even if we choose not to unleash the weapons.

    There is no certainty in the current situation, although (as I keep on saying), I am hopeful.
    Covid will never be 'over'.

    We had reached herd immunity though since cases were plateaued and not exponentially growing.

    The virus has evolved since.

    Restrictions are weapons against the public not the virus.
    I'm pretty sure that we had not reach herd immunity under any reasonable definition of that term.
    If we hadn't, why weren't cases growing exponentially?

    Some people mistakenly believe that herd immunity means that a virus disappears, it doesn't. It just means that R is kept to about 1 or below which is what was keeping cases flat at 40k per week.
    Can you show me your definition of 'herd immunity' please, from a reputable source?
    He's broadly correct I think.

    "When pt reaches a value of 1 – 1/R0 then Rt = 1. This is the herd immunity threshold."
    https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/set-c/set-c-herd-immunity.pdf?la=en-GB&hash=2B8F6255CF6FD83CE71FC510596FBCFB
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Charles said:

    TimS said:

    Charles said:

    The German-Baltic Chamber of Commerce has written to the Lithuanian government warning that German investors may close their plants in the country unless a "constructive solution to restore Lithuanian-Chinese economic relations" is found

    https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1474039233052659718

    Germany really are a mercantilist nation. Shameful.
    To be fair this is a chamber of commerce ie an industry group not the government. Still, what with this and Nordstream2 there does seem to be a degree of realpolitik gone mad in some corners of the German economy.
    The Nordstream debate is interesting, as it's a wedge between the new German government partners. It's built, ready to use, and would help dampen the soaring gas price. Everyone agrees that if Russia actually attacked Ukraine then it shouldn't be opened for a long time, if ever. The SPD and CDU are in favour of opening it if they don't, the Greens are against, both because they don't like gas (fossil fuel) and they don't like Russia (and do like Ukraine). Not sure what the FDP thinks - does anyone know?

    The obvious deal to be done is for Putin to stop willy-waving and the pipeline to open after a few months, after which it becomes a profitable lever to restrain Putin from a return to willy-waving. I think that's what will happen in the end, but Putin is populist enough to be unpredictable.
    Putin doesn’t care about profits.

    Nordstream 2 absolutely fucks Ukraine.

    It allows Russia to bypass them and cut off the transit fees.

    It will be a strategic calamity for the West.

    But Gerhard Schroeder and other German politicians are richer than they were.
    Nordstream 2 fucks the Ukrainians, and I get that.

    But you are equally asking German consumers to accept higher priced gas, because it includes transit fees, solely to benefit the Ukrainians.

    Irrespective, the big news - driven no doubt by Putin turning the screws - is that two LNG import terminal projects in Germany are now going to be built. Germany's dependence on Russian gas - with Nordstream 2 or without it - will diminish, because for the first time it will be able to directly import LNG from the US, Australia or elsewhere.

    Indeed, the law of unintended consequences is that a whole host of LNG projects have been greenlighted in the last few months. The most important of these is that Mozambique LNG is now actually going to happen. (If the Russians had waited another six or twelve months it might have gotten permanently shelved. Now, it is not inconceivable the first cargoes flow in 2024. I suspect there will be no shortage of European buyers for the gas. Amazing to think that six months ago, everyone thought it was dead.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
    Lots of people have been saying Covid is 'over' since the middle of 2020; I even remember one wise and sagacious poster whose name no longer graces these pages keep on saying, week after week, that we had reached herd immunity - only for cases and deaths to keep on coming.

    Covid has had a habit of making fools of us all (although some more than most...), and IMV we need to ensure that every weapons in our arsenal is ready to aim at it; even if we choose not to unleash the weapons.

    There is no certainty in the current situation, although (as I keep on saying), I am hopeful.
    Covid will never be 'over'.

    We had reached herd immunity though since cases were plateaued and not exponentially growing.

    The virus has evolved since.

    Restrictions are weapons against the public not the virus.
    I'm pretty sure that we had not reach herd immunity under any reasonable definition of that term.
    If we hadn't, why weren't cases growing exponentially?

    Some people mistakenly believe that herd immunity means that a virus disappears, it doesn't. It just means that R is kept to about 1 or below which is what was keeping cases flat at 40k per week.
    Can you show me your definition of 'herd immunity' please, from a reputable source?
    It's if you herd it from some bloke on Twitter, right?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    The hospitalisation rate isn't going up, and compliance amongst the general population is waning, apart from a minority who are scared out of their minds due to government messaging. But, the message has got out that the new variant is mild. Vast harm has been done to the travel industry, and the hospitality industry. The vaccination infrastructure is good. So politically, the bold thing for Boris to do is to remove the rules. U turn on vaccine passports to placate the backbenchers. Rewind to where we were a few weeks ago. Just strike a cautious note in doing so, saying that it was a false alarm.

    I agree with all that but I disagree with saying it was a false alarm.

    Just say that with the booster campaign now done, there's no longer a need for the restrictions - and in a more polite way explain that if you've not got your jab yet still then go get it because there'll be no restrictions to protect you instead.
    Lots of people have been saying Covid is 'over' since the middle of 2020; I even remember one wise and sagacious poster whose name no longer graces these pages keep on saying, week after week, that we had reached herd immunity - only for cases and deaths to keep on coming.

    Covid has had a habit of making fools of us all (although some more than most...), and IMV we need to ensure that every weapons in our arsenal is ready to aim at it; even if we choose not to unleash the weapons.

    There is no certainty in the current situation, although (as I keep on saying), I am hopeful.
    Covid will never be 'over'.

    We had reached herd immunity though since cases were plateaued and not exponentially growing.

    The virus has evolved since.

    Restrictions are weapons against the public not the virus.
    I'm pretty sure that we had not reach herd immunity under any reasonable definition of that term.
    If we hadn't, why weren't cases growing exponentially?

    Some people mistakenly believe that herd immunity means that a virus disappears, it doesn't. It just means that R is kept to about 1 or below which is what was keeping cases flat at 40k per week.
    Can you show me your definition of 'herd immunity' please, from a reputable source?
    It's if you herd it from some bloke on Twitter, right?
    I am immune to puns.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,879
    Gadfly said:

    This piece from Patrick Vallance appears to be a response to Fraser Nelson's worst scenarios story...

    It’s not true Covid modellers look only at worst outcomes.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/its-not-true-covid-modellers-look-only-at-worst-outcomes-5c9pcpdwr

    https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/1473575940932448256?t=4qEZ4vM3BbPkt5O2a6q0Ug&s=09

    This was a pretty good takedown of the critiques.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,779

    Charles said:

    German import prices rose by 3.0% in November and by 24.7% on a year ago. (Analysts had expected 1.1% and 22.3%.)

    A lot of younger people won’t even remember inflation. They are about to learn a fundamental economic lesson the hard way.

    Just as well the UK government hasn’t borrowed too much.

    Oh!

    Just as well the UK government is keeping prices down by retaining membership of the biggest single market on the planet.

    Oh!

    Just as well households haven’t over-borrowed and gambled money they don’t have on the stock markets.

    Oh!

    The list of extremely hard lessons about to be learned is very long.

    One and a half out of three right.

    Probably worth a C, May be a B- if I am feeling generous
    I’ll take that! Nice to know that an alumnus of Strathclyde Business School doesn’t talk total gibberish on the topic of economics.

    Out of interest, and to improve my scoring rate, where did I lose my one and a half points?
    @StuartDickson I'm considering Strathclyde for a Masters at some point. Might come to you for advice if you still know the uni well.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    TELEGRAPH: New Year’s likely to escape new curbs

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1474135135847079943?s=20

    I suspect not. Once the chill blast of omi hits full-force in January, I reckon HMG will succumb to the pressure to tighten things further.

    I hope I am wrong.
    I think we’re past that. Restrictions were only ever a temporary emergency measure, to be used in extremis. Omi will be familiar to us by January - it will have lost the terror factor of the unknown and exotic. I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus that it’s time to get back to a more normal situation.

    It’s not easy, and it feels like tempting fate: like reducing the terrorist threat from imminent to severe, or whatever the terminology is, but as with terrorism nobody wants to live in a permanent state of emergency.
    "I get the feeling that people across the political spectrum have finally come to some consensus"

    I wonder whether the various parties are starting to seriously pick up in their focus groups that the voting public have reached the point where they accept no more or little more can be done and we have to live with it.

    Drakeford under attack tonight

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/23/mark-drakeford-accused-lying-claim-omicron-probably-severe-delta/
    Yep, he's completely buggered. What chance does he have when even his friends like the Telegraph and Big G start ganging up on him? None.
    @Big_G_NorthWales manages the contortions required to vote for the donkey in the blue rosette every time. He is very flexible for his years.
    A year ago I would have said that Big G was one of the most respected, likeable and liked posters on PB.

    A year is a long time in blogland.
    I think he still is; he's just got himself into a tizzy trying to ride two, or, perchance, three, horses at the same time. Easy to do, sometimes, when one is facing contrary demands. Is a Johnsonite a Conservative, a Tory or whatever one calls the party of the Right in UK nowadays? IIRC we had people trying to be pro Labour and anti Corbyn Once Upon a Time!

    Anyway:
    Happy Christmas, Yule, Alban Arthan or whatever your particular midwinter festival is called, to all.

    'See' you all in a couple of days time, (DV, of course). Unless Mrs C or I test positive on the LFT we're doing later this morning, in which case all bets may be off.
This discussion has been closed.