I have said many times that Keir Starmer seems like the perfect candidate when he’s up against Boris Johnson when he’s unpopular.
The question is whether he will be up against Boris Johnson
I remain utterly convinced that he will be, yes. For all the shit going down atm he won a landslide majority less than 2 years ago. I can't see him not being given another election unless he doesn't want it. And I can't see him not wanting it.
I'd have agreed with this up until the last week or so. Not so sure now. Really depends on the polling - if it becomes clear over a sustained period that the Tory poll lead has gone, I think they'll want to get Sunak in place in good time for the next election.
I think the party would need to see Labour well ahead for a few months and Sunak polling way better than Johnson as regards impact on VI before they'd psyche up to possibly ditch him. Could happen but for me it's a long shot. Maybe around a 10% chance.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
As I said above, you live there and tell people about things that, in reality, you enjoy just once or twice a year.
I return to the city nowadays on average once a month, and make more out of central London as a visitor than ever I did as a resident of one of its outer suburbs.
Which leaves the appeal of the suburbs being all the places you can drive to that aren’t actually London - in the same way that, talk to anyone who lives in Swindon, and they’ll be telling you of all the wonderful places that are within an hour or so’s drive whose principal virtue is that they aren’t Swindon.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully' inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
I don't want love, indifference would be fine. It's the constant compulsive slagging off of London by people who don't live in London, don't know London and seem convinced that London is leeching off them that I find so monumentally boring, especially as there are things in London that need money spent on them, but apparently there's no money. Most of the horrible things you attribute to London could be applied to more or less every town and city in Britain. We live in a country built by the Victorians in a hurry and on the cheap and have been living with the consequences ever since.
But I do know London. Know it far better than I want to. Have spent much more time there than I ever wanted to. So you're wrong again.
Yes, that's a perfectly fair point about many towns and cities have the same issues, particularly in terms of appalling urban planning. You are talking after all to somebody who is in the Birmingham commuter ring and used to commute into Bristol. But very few of them have them on the scale of London, simply because the sheer size of it brings its own major problems in that regard.
As for indifference, you're trying to persuade me it's brilliant. Which it isn't. You'd be on a far better wicket pointing out that precisely because of its size and economic clout most of its problems are intractable and therefore something you have to put up with if you want to live there. Then - understand why most of us actually don't, having made the choice to live elsewhere (and yes, in my case it was a choice, I had the option to work there and ran a mile).
I wasn't talking about you specifically, perhaps you are speaking from a position of profound knowledge but most of the legions of bitter uninformed London haters aren't. London *is* brilliant. I can go and see a West End show or visit a world class gallery or museum and then take a bus home in about 40 minutes for about a pound. I can walk for hours through beautiful parks and open spaces. The high population density supports an almost infinite array of activities for my kids, all within a ten minute walk or drive, including swimming, ballet, contemporary dance, theatre, football, Scouts. Schools and school friends are all a short walk away. The schools are good with motivated pupils and hard working teachers. Every kind of food is available on our doorstep, and local restaurants are no more expensive than those I've been to in other cities. Our neighbourhood is friendly and diverse, nobody makes any comments about our mixed race kids. When my wife and I wanted to write a play, we found talented collaborators among our friends and neighbours and a great local fringe theatre to stage it. Our Victorian house is far from shoddily built. So yeah, I love London.
I think we're starting to wander off the point here.
My original comment was a fairly flippant response to a comment from RCS that I don't live in London so it's not surprising my house is cheaper. At the same time, it's true. If you believe all that you've written about London that's fine but it definitely isn't my experience of a wide variety of different parts of it. I've found it to be a thoroughly unpleasant place for all the reasons I give, and like I say, the best thing about it was always the sign pointing me home.
What does intrigue me is how defensive Londoners get (and very quickly) when somebody points out their city's shortcomings. You tell me Cannock is an unplanned shitheap full of bad architecture and I'll cheerfully agree with you. It is. The fact it has many other redeeming features including the most glorious surrounding countryside, excellent and not expensive restaurants, theatres and live music venues that afford top-quality productions, affordable housing, an ample water supply and superb transport links coupled to a central geographical location that mean I can be pretty much anywhere in England in two hours more than makes up for that. Only one of those really applies to London. But it's intriguing that many who live there don't see it.
Equally, I suppose if you don't like it you don't stay.
I lived and worked in London for thirty years and represented a part of it on my local council for twenty four of them, elected six times running, during which I got to see aspects that most people don’t see, and was involved in London-wide politics for a fair few years, as well as having a career involved with providing services to the capital.
It was a privilege to represent a part of the capital and I did my best to make my local patch a better place to live. Yet it is the housing market that has ruined the city, for its residents. In the ‘90s, owner occupation was on the rise and the part of east london that I represented, a mix of terraced and semi-detached houses, was a settled community with a lot of young families. When I cashed in and moved away, owner occupation was plummeting (in just my own ward alone, a property moved from owner-occupied to private-rented every three days) and the sense of community had gone. So many properties had been converted to flats or bedsits, retained by their ‘boomer’ owners who had “moved to the country” and now occupied by younger people renting single rooms at extortionate rates, with a fast turnover of residents.
The telling point about outer London for me was always when I returned from a holiday in some more attractive part of the world and returned home, seeing it through the eyes of a visitor. Which never felt good. London residents so easily turn a blind eye to the city’s unattractiveness, away from the centre.
Central London is full of amazing attractions, but these can best be enjoyed as a visitor staying in a nice hotel and scheduling a few days to tour the museums and sights, as I am able to to nowadays. Living in outer London it was all too easy to extol the virtues of living in London without realising that, in reality, central London is mostly enjoyed by a few ultra-rich residents and by tourists. The number of times I actually went to the theatre or suchlike after work, or travelled into the centre at the weekend after a week of unpleasant daily commuting, don’t need to be counted because there were so few of them. Which leaves outer London residents consoling themselves with the places they can reach after a short drive that aren’t in London at all.
Whilst I enjoyed my younger days in London, its pleasures are out of reach nowadays to all except the very rich, and even if I won the lottery I wouldn’t move back there. Indeed I drive through parts of the city that I used to call home, and, through the eyes of an outsider, wonder how it was that I ever managed put up with the squalor of the place.
Great post. I worked in Kings Cross for 3 years and after a brief period in a delightful bedsit at the top of Grays Inn Road lived in Edmonton. I had to really plan to do things in London because otherwise it didn't happen. Sprawling suburban life was all the financial penalties of working in that London with few on the benefits of working in that London.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I lived in London for five years in the early 90s, when I was in my late teens/early 20s. I loved it, but grew weary of it by the end. I rarely go back, but when I do, I love it - especially when experiencing it with the little 'un, for whom everything is new.
Except... in rush hour. Just one trip in rush hour reminds me why I got the f*** out of town.
In fact, when I was working i used to go into work at seven in the morning - just to avoid the rush hour. Plenty of time to answer emails, do some work, go out to grab a bacon butty from a lovely sandwich place, and then be back at my desk before everyone else arrived.
But London is glorious. Yet there are glorious parts of everywhere in the UK. even Hartlepool.
(I was about to say 'except Middlesborough', but I remembered that had the transporter bridge).
That's a shame - but understandable. Is having an operable transporter bridge necessary when there are so many more demands on the council's purse? However, as the article says, it is iconic. I really hope it remains, even if inoperable.
ISTR there's also another interesting lift bridge further upstream.
(And apologies for mistyping Middlesbrough in my last post.)
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
Strong stuff! - and I can't be signing off on "trash" about the working class people of the North from which I come and who I know so well. They face a test, though, is how I look at it.
It was enormously understandable that in Dec 19 they flocked to the bouncy 'can-do' persona of Boris "Boris" Johnson and his promise to Get Done the Brexit they'd voted for 3 years earlier and seen frustrated at every turn.
But if they were to stick with him next time when all the evidence available to anybody with a brain cell and a willingness to use it is that he and his government don't care two hoots about them, this would be something else entirely. It would show they are fools.
It would also show Johnson and the Tories to be astute readers of the room, very in touch with the people they seek to govern. Because that (fools) is precisely their evaluation of the working class people of the North and it's what they are counting on.
Its a complex and locally varied situation but here are some advantages the Conservatives might have in northern parts:
1) Better to have a government which doesn't give two hoots for you than one which is actively malign
2) Their new MPs - these constituencies have had decades of MPs who didn't give two hoots but now have MPs who are actually making an effort
3) Areas which are improving irrespective of government but for which the government will get some benefit
4) Areas which were less Conservative than they demographically should have been but for which 2019 was the reset
2 and 3 are good points. 4 possibly, not sure. 1 is a nonsense. Hope you didn't put it first because you think it's the strongest point.
1) Is very much about local perceptions - in mining areas, as an example, the Conservative party was widely viewed as 'the enemy'. I think that has now gone. The Conservatives might still be viewed as incompetent, self-serving and out-of-touch but that's different from being actively malign. The opposite side of the coin might be university constituencies with the perception of the Conservatives now being that of 'the enemy' far more than it was in previous decades.
4) I remember around 2010 posting here the demographics of some Lincolnshire constituency (South Holland perhaps) and those of a South Yorkshire constituency (maybe Rother Valley) - they were pretty much identical on age, education, race, home ownership. I suggested the different voting habits for seemingly similar places came from one traditionally digging potatoes out of the ground and the other coal. Well the coal is now gone so what's to stop the voting patterns of the two places becoming much closer.
Ok, got you. On (1), though, being taken for a ride by a tory toff conman could reignite that 'malign' sentiment. If they see it that way, of course. Which, as per my OP, is what I'm hoping.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I lived in London for five years in the early 90s, when I was in my late teens/early 20s. I loved it, but grew weary of it by the end. I rarely go back, but when I do, I love it - especially when experiencing it with the little 'un, for whom everything is new.
Except... in rush hour. Just one trip in rush hour reminds me why I got the f*** out of town.
In fact, when I was working i used to go into work at seven in the morning - just to avoid the rush hour. Plenty of time to answer emails, do some work, go out to grab a bacon butty from a lovely sandwich place, and then be back at my desk before everyone else arrived.
But London is glorious. Yet there are glorious parts of everywhere in the UK. even Hartlepool.
(I was about to say 'except Middlesborough', but I remembered that had the transporter bridge).
That's fine, I never pay any attention to the views of anyone about the town who can't spell it correctly. Fwiw I live in London, absolutely love it, but I also know Middlesbrough well - and I am a lifelong supporter of its football team. The town and its people have many virtues (nowhere but Middlesbrough could have produced a character like Brian Clough in my view) - and the coastline is fantastic.
Apologies for the misspelling.
I must admit I've only ever visited once, walking through on my coastwalk in 2002. But that gave me the experience of the 'Black Path' down to Redcar, a long stroll between railway, steelworks and chemical plants. Crossing black chemical-filled puddles using fenceposts someone had thrown in.
If anyone on here still watches GBNews can they say what is the dark tide referred to by Oliver? I'd hate to think he was a racist twat as well as all the other kinds of twat.
Could it be a heartfelt warning about climate change?
Found it, it's mainly pseudo libertarian antivax twattery with a smidgeon of racist twattery chucked in.
'We turn blind eyes and deaf ears to uncounted numbers of girls raped and abused in Rotherham and other towns all over England, for fear of upsetting community relations.'
If anyone on here still watches GBNews can they say what is the dark tide referred to by Oliver? I'd hate to think he was a racist twat as well as all the other kinds of twat.
Could it be a heartfelt warning about climate change?
Found it, it's mainly pseudo libertarian antivax twattery with a smidgeon of racist twattery chucked in.
'We turn blind eyes and deaf ears to uncounted numbers of girls raped and abused in Rotherham and other towns all over England, for fear of upsetting community relations.'
Ah, that dark tide. Sounds like he's gone all Tommy but decided to keep the hair.
Am having difficulty following the metaphor: did the tide come from mainland Europe (going from country to country) before washing up in Rotherham?
The excessively strained metaphor is (I think) suggesting that turning deaf ears to government covid repression swamping the continent and coming our way soon resembles how 'the uncounted numbers of girls raped and abused in Rotherham and other towns all over England' went ignored. Presumably this means that he's Nick Griffin in this scenario..
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
Might just be me, but pre-Covid I'd spend 2/3 lunchbreaks a week in the Tate Britain. It's pretty much my favourite art gallery in the world.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
The British Museum and National Gallery each get about two million UK visitors per year.
Many of whom will be from outside London meaning that the average Londoner does close to sod all museum visiting.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I lived in London for five years in the early 90s, when I was in my late teens/early 20s. I loved it, but grew weary of it by the end. I rarely go back, but when I do, I love it - especially when experiencing it with the little 'un, for whom everything is new.
Except... in rush hour. Just one trip in rush hour reminds me why I got the f*** out of town.
In fact, when I was working i used to go into work at seven in the morning - just to avoid the rush hour. Plenty of time to answer emails, do some work, go out to grab a bacon butty from a lovely sandwich place, and then be back at my desk before everyone else arrived.
But London is glorious. Yet there are glorious parts of everywhere in the UK. even Hartlepool.
(I was about to say 'except Middlesborough', but I remembered that had the transporter bridge).
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I lived in London for five years in the early 90s, when I was in my late teens/early 20s. I loved it, but grew weary of it by the end. I rarely go back, but when I do, I love it - especially when experiencing it with the little 'un, for whom everything is new.
Except... in rush hour. Just one trip in rush hour reminds me why I got the f*** out of town.
In fact, when I was working i used to go into work at seven in the morning - just to avoid the rush hour. Plenty of time to answer emails, do some work, go out to grab a bacon butty from a lovely sandwich place, and then be back at my desk before everyone else arrived.
But London is glorious. Yet there are glorious parts of everywhere in the UK. even Hartlepool.
(I was about to say 'except Middlesborough', but I remembered that had the transporter bridge).
That's fine, I never pay any attention to the views of anyone about the town who can't spell it correctly. Fwiw I live in London, absolutely love it, but I also know Middlesbrough well - and I am a lifelong supporter of its football team. The town and its people have many virtues (nowhere but Middlesbrough could have produced a character like Brian Clough in my view) - and the coastline is fantastic.
Apologies for the misspelling.
I must admit I've only ever visited once, walking through on my coastwalk in 2002. But that gave me the experience of the 'Black Path' down to Redcar, a long stroll between railway, steelworks and chemical plants. Crossing black chemical-filled puddles using fenceposts someone had thrown in.
It was spectacular in a horrendously bleak way.
I believe the drive along the A178 at night between Middlesbrough and Hartlepool was the inspiration for the opening shots of Bladerunner ...
"The West is artificially whipping up hysteria with statements about the possible preparation of a Russian invasion of Ukraine, and the Kremlin does not exclude the possibility of provocations in this regard,"- Peskov.
If anyone on here still watches GBNews can they say what is the dark tide referred to by Oliver? I'd hate to think he was a racist twat as well as all the other kinds of twat.
Could it be a heartfelt warning about climate change?
Europe is going to become more attractive to migrants in the coming decades. The relative ease of travel towards the borders plus increasing stresses of wars and climate change will see increased numbers of refugees. However, this will be swamped by a massive increase in economic migrants as countries in Africa become relatively wealthier - communities and families will find it easier to afford to pay people smugglers to traffic their young men to the Mediterranean coast hoping for work in Europe.
In the end we will either have to have strongly militarily enforced borders or fix the demand side labour issue or both - once again, I recommend @RCS1000 for his video about how the Swiss manage to keep illegal immigration low by making it incredibly unattractive for employers to use illegal immigrant labour.
As I pointed out earlier to do that we also need to have proper ID cards so it's easy to verify that everyone is a legal worker.
Automatic £10,000+ fines should focus minds thou.
It is not just the employment side but also the social welfare / health care system side of the equation. You come to the UK, you will be housed in accommodation, have free access to health care, a support system and social security payments. Even if you don't get a job, that is a vast improvement on what you have. If you have several children, and so you need to be put in a bigger accommodation, so much the better.
You seem to have a somewhat rosy view about the plentiful nature of social housing.
I was reading a feature on it today which argues that the main pull factors for here are language, family ties and the (relative to other countries eg France) ease of getting casual work.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
It always seems strange to me to want to convince others that they live in a shithole whilst waxing lyrical on one's own town or city; it's not as if you want to be invaded by emigre Londoners.
Boris Johnson: Tory MPs are tremendously angry with him. They are not quite so furious that they will pole-axe their number one this week, but they are sufficiently incensed to decline to sustain him and refuse to cover for him. Large numbers of them “withdrew their love” in a dramatically public fashion by disdaining to turn up to support him at the most recent prime minister’s questions.
“Boris has still got a bit of capital in the bank, but a lot of it has gone,” says a Conservative MP representing a Yorkshire seat. “Boris doesn’t have a conviction in his body,” complains one veteran Thatcherite. “There’s a lot of us worrying: is this a Conservative government?”
Liberal, internationalist Tories, the type who tried to stop the government’s savage cuts to the aid budget, don’t feel this is their kind of government either. They are angsty that moderate voters are repelled by sleaze, mendacity, incompetence and the crude bombast of the prime minister. “Many of us assumed that Boris was the One Nation Tory who ran London,” says a centrist Conservative MP who backed him for the leadership in 2019. “Unfortunately, we’ve learnt that this was just a persona to win London. We’ve learnt that this was not the genuine Boris.”
He is a highly unusual prime minister in not having a strong body of committed supporters who will back him through thick and thin. It is a struggle to think of more than a handful of Tory MPs who might fight for him to the bitter end. He hasn’t got loyalists, only lackeys. He inspires no true believers, he simply attracts hangers-on. They will let go of his coat-tails the moment they conclude that his premiership is on an irreversibly downward trajectory.
Boris Johnson is not yet in the pole-axe zone, but he is stumbling into its vicinity.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
It always seems strange to me to want to convince others that they live in a shithole whilst waxing lyrical on one's own town or city; it's not as if you want to be invaded by emigre Londoners.
Each to their own, I say.
There is no specific desire to convince people they live in a shithole. It is just the manifestation of a broader desire to debate an accurate picture of the world. Either someone provides an insight that I have overlooked and I come away wiser, or the poor Londoner can see the light and make choices to improve their life. Win-win I say.
Having said that, I live an ocean away so am unlikely to be invaded by Londoners. But a few more Brits in the electorate would be a welcome source of moderation.
"The West is artificially whipping up hysteria with statements about the possible preparation of a Russian invasion of Ukraine, and the Kremlin does not exclude the possibility of provocations in this regard,"- Peskov.
Putin is the Kaiser Wilhelm of our time. Autocratic and annexationist. The best way to stop such people is to issue firm lines early and show we mean them. Otherwise their ambitions grow and the desire to avoid conflict results in it, with other countries inevitably pulled in over time.
Boris Johnson: Tory MPs are tremendously angry with him. They are not quite so furious that they will pole-axe their number one this week, but they are sufficiently incensed to decline to sustain him and refuse to cover for him. Large numbers of them “withdrew their love” in a dramatically public fashion by disdaining to turn up to support him at the most recent prime minister’s questions.
“Boris has still got a bit of capital in the bank, but a lot of it has gone,” says a Conservative MP representing a Yorkshire seat. “Boris doesn’t have a conviction in his body,” complains one veteran Thatcherite. “There’s a lot of us worrying: is this a Conservative government?”
Liberal, internationalist Tories, the type who tried to stop the government’s savage cuts to the aid budget, don’t feel this is their kind of government either. They are angsty that moderate voters are repelled by sleaze, mendacity, incompetence and the crude bombast of the prime minister. “Many of us assumed that Boris was the One Nation Tory who ran London,” says a centrist Conservative MP who backed him for the leadership in 2019. “Unfortunately, we’ve learnt that this was just a persona to win London. We’ve learnt that this was not the genuine Boris.”
He is a highly unusual prime minister in not having a strong body of committed supporters who will back him through thick and thin. It is a struggle to think of more than a handful of Tory MPs who might fight for him to the bitter end. He hasn’t got loyalists, only lackeys. He inspires no true believers, he simply attracts hangers-on. They will let go of his coat-tails the moment they conclude that his premiership is on an irreversibly downward trajectory.
Boris Johnson is not yet in the pole-axe zone, but he is stumbling into its vicinity.
Was it Max Hastings who said that the people who think Boris is a nice guy are people who do not know him?
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
Might just be me, but pre-Covid I'd spend 2/3 lunchbreaks a week in the Tate Britain. It's pretty much my favourite art gallery in the world.
So 30 minutes a time? 90 minutes a week? I would say you are a top five percenter in visitation, so on par for my estimate.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
Might just be me, but pre-Covid I'd spend 2/3 lunchbreaks a week in the Tate Britain. It's pretty much my favourite art gallery in the world.
So 30 minutes a time? 90 minutes a week? I would say you are a top five percenter in visitation, so on par for my estimate.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
Might just be me, but pre-Covid I'd spend 2/3 lunchbreaks a week in the Tate Britain. It's pretty much my favourite art gallery in the world.
So 30 minutes a time? 90 minutes a week? I would say you are a top five percenter in visitation, so on par for my estimate.
Also pre-Covid, but I used to go to the theatre quite often, frequent independent cinemas (Curzon, BFI, Electric Cinema Notting Hill), visit the V&A and Natural History museums, the National Gallery, and National Portrait Gallery regularly. All-in-all I think I probably spent more time on such activities than even that I spent on PB.
Edit: + classical concerts - at least a couple of proms each year.
Boris Johnson: Tory MPs are tremendously angry with him. They are not quite so furious that they will pole-axe their number one this week, but they are sufficiently incensed to decline to sustain him and refuse to cover for him. Large numbers of them “withdrew their love” in a dramatically public fashion by disdaining to turn up to support him at the most recent prime minister’s questions.
“Boris has still got a bit of capital in the bank, but a lot of it has gone,” says a Conservative MP representing a Yorkshire seat. “Boris doesn’t have a conviction in his body,” complains one veteran Thatcherite. “There’s a lot of us worrying: is this a Conservative government?”
Liberal, internationalist Tories, the type who tried to stop the government’s savage cuts to the aid budget, don’t feel this is their kind of government either. They are angsty that moderate voters are repelled by sleaze, mendacity, incompetence and the crude bombast of the prime minister. “Many of us assumed that Boris was the One Nation Tory who ran London,” says a centrist Conservative MP who backed him for the leadership in 2019. “Unfortunately, we’ve learnt that this was just a persona to win London. We’ve learnt that this was not the genuine Boris.”
He is a highly unusual prime minister in not having a strong body of committed supporters who will back him through thick and thin. It is a struggle to think of more than a handful of Tory MPs who might fight for him to the bitter end. He hasn’t got loyalists, only lackeys. He inspires no true believers, he simply attracts hangers-on. They will let go of his coat-tails the moment they conclude that his premiership is on an irreversibly downward trajectory.
Boris Johnson is not yet in the pole-axe zone, but he is stumbling into its vicinity.
Includes this peach of a quote from a former minister:
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
Might just be me, but pre-Covid I'd spend 2/3 lunchbreaks a week in the Tate Britain. It's pretty much my favourite art gallery in the world.
So 30 minutes a time? 90 minutes a week? I would say you are a top five percenter in visitation, so on par for my estimate.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
I find it hilarious that people use things like museums, theater, universities and music as a reason to live in London. How many hours do you spend each year doing them? The top 5% probably do 2 hours a week. The average Londoner probably 2 hours a month.
Meanwhile how much do you have to deal with the shitty things about London? If you mainly drive, traffic congestion alone probably costs you 0.5-1 hours a day. Finding parking a similar amount. Being cramped like cattle into tubes would be even more. Living in cramped apartments and housing is something you have to deal with 50 hours plus each week. Crazy expensive gyms, terrible childcare, awful GP waiting lines... the list goes on.
Might just be me, but pre-Covid I'd spend 2/3 lunchbreaks a week in the Tate Britain. It's pretty much my favourite art gallery in the world.
So 30 minutes a time? 90 minutes a week? I would say you are a top five percenter in visitation, so on par for my estimate.
Also pre-Covid, but I used to go to the theatre quite often, frequent independent cinemas (Curzon, BFI, Electric Cinema Notting Hill), visit the V&A and Natural History museums, the National Gallery, and National Portrait Gallery regularly. All-in-all I think I probably spent more time on such activities than even that I spent on PB.
Edit: + classical concerts - at least a couple of proms each year.
London is an amazing city. But it’s one to visit, not one to live.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
I'm just loving the irony of that post...
Edit – I had to spend a lot of time in London when I was doing my PhD because all my research was in the British Library, the National Archives or the London Metropolitan Archives. My favourite sight in London is a big blue sign that says 'Reading and the West M4.' I stand by my statement that it is a shitheap.
Certainlyu the Northeasterners have their own view of London. From Wiki:
'Cockney Wanker is a character created by Graham Dury and Simon Thorpe[1][2] in Viz based on a stereotyped male Cockney. Wanker speaks in rhyming slang (often slang invented by the writers) and spends his days drinking and selling stolen or unworkable goods to passers-by from an East End market stall. Another of Wanker's specialities is trading used cars. Playing upon the stereotype of the indigenous population of London being fantasists, Wanker often buys a car, sells it back to the same person, for the same amount of money, then declares the transaction to have been "A nice little earner!" He wears cheap gold jewellery or Argos bling and 'Laahndan' gangster dark glasses, and is often seen smoking a cigar.
He is a wife-beater[3] and lifelong racist[4] who complains about [deleted], yet respects Frank Bruno. He is established as a royalist, especially supportive of the Queen Mother, spouting received wisdom such as "Ninety Free she is. Ninety Free. Wahn the bladdy war for us she did!"'
Brilliant
I note that that typical North-Easterner Graham Dury, is from Nottingham.
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
I don't want love, indifference would be fine. It's the constant compulsive slagging off of London by people who don't live in London, don't know London and seem convinced that London is leeching off them that I find so monumentally boring, especially as there are things in London that need money spent on them, but apparently there's no money. Most of the horrible things you attribute to London could be applied to more or less every town and city in Britain. We live in a country built by the Victorians in a hurry and on the cheap and have been living with the consequences ever since.
London's most immediate problem (and it's one that is going to scare Khan and TFL in the new future) is that there is no way Boris can agree to given TFL the money it needs to survive now.
So TFL is going to have to start working out how to rapidly cut costs...
Separately, the whole point of investing up North is that for a one off sum of money (albeit a lot) is that by making the north more efficient there should would be more tax revenue generated up north.
Perhaps a serendipitous kick up the Rs will encourage Mayor Sadiq to discover some appropropriate moral courage, and first of all follow Paris in dealing with inefficiency in the tube system, and then to address the phalanxes of overpaid managers in TFL.
Lots of talk on the migrant crisis this morning on the news. Labour should grab the initiative, be bold, and propose something close to open borders. There is a lot of political will for it in the progressive side.
Labour's shadow home secretary only solution is better negotiations with France, more foreign aid and Dubs amendment, but not one practical proposal that will stop the dangerous crossings
Though this governments proposals haven't exactly stopped the crossings, have they?
And that is the problem that seems intractable as nobody has a workable solution
Its just that you attacked Labour for "not one practical proposal" to make them stop. The same is true of this government and even more specifically this Home Secretary.
You can't stop boats by force. Desperate people do desperate things. Even if we properly funded the Royal Navy and the Border Force and actually tried to stop boats with resources that don't currently exist, they will still get through. Hard to stop little boats with big boats 24 hours a day.
Ironically the practical thing we could do is entirely in her remit. So many of these boats are coming because they make it across and people can scurry off unhindered. If we had a significantly stepped-up force waiting for them to land to detain the migrants then the message would get through.
We don't. Because we can't. Because despite all the rhetoric we have savaged the police and the border force so that they simply cannot control things. Not enough resources. If we wanted to at least try and stop it we could. We don't because the Tories only know how to cut.
What are all the army bods doing. Get them out of the barracks and lined up along the south coast every night, not take long to sort it out.
Thank you Priti.
P.S. I assume you are arming them.
Surely the army have guns already. just get them to nearest airfield where RAF have the engines warmed up, take them to somewhere else and process them there. Any genuine asylum seekers will end up back in UK, the roasters will end up elsewhere. Making it like going on a very extended holiday with hotels waiting , spending money etc is not working for sure.
"take them to somewhere else" - glad to see you've got a fully worked out solution there.
Not my choice but earlier suggestion of Falklands Isles sounds reasonable, perhaps one of the UK tax havens.
Why do you think it will be easier for a few thousand people living on some small barren islands in the South Atlantic to accommodate and process refugees than a wealthy country of 65 million people?
Because a hut on a windswept hillside twenty miles from Port Stanley would be a rather less attractive location in which to end up than a flat in Rochdale. If it's made abundantly clear that boat arrivals won't be allowed to stay then it will become pointless for any more people to pay the traffickers to buy them a dinghy, and the crossings will stop. This benefits future waves of migrants, because they'll save their money and can try settling in a continental country instead, benefits the majority of the UK electorate that doesn't want the migrants, and deprives the traffickers of their livelihood.
The key obstacle, of course, is that the islanders evidently wouldn't be asked to pay for any of this, it would be down to the Treasury, and it would rather wave the people through than part with the cash. If offshoring were cheap it would already have been done.
OK so you process them on the Falkland Islands. For now we ignore the question of what the Falkland Islanders might want (even though we fought a war forty years ago to defend their sovereign rights). Most of them turn out to be refugees (because most of them are refugees). What next? They stay on the Falklands, where they rapidly outnumber the native population? We bring them back to the UK anyway? What exactly?
You got any evidence to show they are refugees. They all stay in UK whether refugees or not so what would change , these clowns don't deport anyone, they put them up in hotels for years till they are pissed off and then they run off or are put in houses and even more spent on them. If they really really are genuine refugees and can prove it , have their papers etc etc then fine bring them back , if not repatriate them pronto. Before you start whining that we cannot repatriate them then stop them coming in first place or leave them in the Falklands unless proven 100% to be refugees. Children excluded , but not the 20-30+ aged one's that the woke charities pass off as 15 year olds.
Nobody who is a refugee needs to risk criminal activity and danger of crossing the channel in a dinghy. They pass through lots of countries where they are safe. So it is not a holiday destination , I cannot pick and choose what country I want to move to just because they have great benefits etc. Therefore their is another reason they want to come to UK and it is not because they are refugees. That leads me to be absolutely certain they are economic migrants looking to exploit the UK system, can be no other reason. Time it was stopped. @OnlyLivingBoy
People calling London a "shitheap". Surely some mistake? London is a great World City - arguable the best city in the World. Places like Scunthorpe, Hartlepool, Middlesborough are the real shitheaps - miserable places with miserable uneducated bigotted trash who reside there?
What a disgusting post
Ordinary hard working people with families live in these areas and are the salt of the earth
Who on earth do you think you are
Are you going to call out Yduffer for calling London a shit heap though? (you don't have to, of course, because we all know it isn't).
The difference is between calling London a shitheap (I live in London but prefer the country, but it’s not a shitheap IMV) and being offensive about the people who live there.
There are parts of central London which are absolutely world class - I really enjoy visits. And not just the bustling bits, there are some genuinely quiet neighbourhoods inside the circle line But the surrounding endless grim suburbia is seriously grim. Some of it painfully so, made worse by the absurd money that is asked of people to live there.
When Charles says 'London' he's thinking of the view over Regent's Park from St John's Wood, not of Ilford or Edmonton or Peckham or Hounslow.
I'd rather live in Peckham than St John's Wood. I virtually do live in Peckham in fact, SE15 is just a couple of streets over. Suburbia isn't grim, it's an oasis of parks and gardens, with thriving communities, friendly neighbours, decent schools, independent shops and restaurants, a plethora of activities for children, a thriving arts scene and reasonable commutes to work in Central London. It's only over priced because it's popular. The only thing that could improve London? If we could spend more of our money on London and less on subsidising people whose main leisure activity is sagging off London.
The old chestnut that London funds the rest of the country rather than the reality that it sucks the life blood out of it and no matter how much is spent there compared to the rest of the country the selfish arseholes are never happy. Full of me me me parasites and bloodsuckers.
The numbers speak for themselves. Londoners pay thousands of pounds more in tax than they receive back in government spending. That's just a fact, sorry if it's inconvenient. I'm very happy. I don't even mind subsidising the rest of the country. I'm not from London, I still have plenty of love for the rest of the UK, including the country of my birth (the same one as yours). I'm just sick of being told how awful we are and what a shit hole I live in by people who are taking my money.
I don't mind the people in London. It's just the city itself is awful. Look at it with a cold eye. Unplanned, appallingly cramped, mostly full of third-rate Victorian architecture, overpriced, brutally congested, dirty, noisy and smelly, full of restaurants that offer food no better than anywhere else in the country but provide half the quantity at double the price - if I'm honest, that's particularly what I remember about being an impoverished student there.
That's even before we get on to the issue of its woefully inadequate utilities network, which means it is chronically short of water, and the bizarre public transport system which nobody would probably use if it wasn't for the fact the roads are so twisty it takes even longer to walk than to take the sardine can, er, underground.
(Your other point is wrong as well, incidentally, as the town I work in is a net contributor to the treasury, so I'm not taking your money.)
If you like it, fine. You're welcome. Means I don't have to live there, which I'm even happier about because it's just not a nice place to be.
Edit - I will admit I do find it annoying when people preach at me that I should love London because it 'subsidises everywhere else.' From that point of view, you should love all farmers in Oxfordshire because they allow the residue from your treated sewage to be spread on their fields. Or the people of the Thames Valley for providing you with water.
London is all those things. But it is also bustling, with world class museums, restaurants, music, theatre, and universities.
You pay a high price to be there - in particular in terms of the price of housing. And it suits some people and at some times of life more than others.
Yes most people swan about museums, fancy restaurants and the theatre all their lives.
Comments
I return to the city nowadays on average once a month, and make more out of central London as a visitor than ever I did as a resident of one of its outer suburbs.
Which leaves the appeal of the suburbs being all the places you can drive to that aren’t actually London - in the same way that, talk to anyone who lives in Swindon, and they’ll be telling you of all the wonderful places that are within an hour or so’s drive whose principal virtue is that they aren’t Swindon.
ISTR there's also another interesting lift bridge further upstream.
(And apologies for mistyping Middlesbrough in my last post.)
I must admit I've only ever visited once, walking through on my coastwalk in 2002. But that gave me the experience of the 'Black Path' down to Redcar, a long stroll between railway, steelworks and chemical plants. Crossing black chemical-filled puddles using fenceposts someone had thrown in.
It was spectacular in a horrendously bleak way.
Many of whom will be from outside London meaning that the average Londoner does close to sod all museum visiting.
As you say a unique spectacle.
"The West is artificially whipping up hysteria with statements about the possible preparation of a Russian invasion of Ukraine, and the Kremlin does not exclude the possibility of provocations in this regard,"- Peskov.
https://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=560901&lang=RU
Each to their own, I say.
Sighs.
Boris Johnson: Tory MPs are tremendously angry with him. They are not quite so furious that they will pole-axe their number one this week, but they are sufficiently incensed to decline to sustain him and refuse to cover for him. Large numbers of them “withdrew their love” in a dramatically public fashion by disdaining to turn up to support him at the most recent prime minister’s questions.
“Boris has still got a bit of capital in the bank, but a lot of it has gone,” says a Conservative MP representing a Yorkshire seat. “Boris doesn’t have a conviction in his body,” complains one veteran Thatcherite. “There’s a lot of us worrying: is this a Conservative government?”
Liberal, internationalist Tories, the type who tried to stop the government’s savage cuts to the aid budget, don’t feel this is their kind of government either. They are angsty that moderate voters are repelled by sleaze, mendacity, incompetence and the crude bombast of the prime minister. “Many of us assumed that Boris was the One Nation Tory who ran London,” says a centrist Conservative MP who backed him for the leadership in 2019. “Unfortunately, we’ve learnt that this was just a persona to win London. We’ve learnt that this was not the genuine Boris.”
He is a highly unusual prime minister in not having a strong body of committed supporters who will back him through thick and thin. It is a struggle to think of more than a handful of Tory MPs who might fight for him to the bitter end. He hasn’t got loyalists, only lackeys. He inspires no true believers, he simply attracts hangers-on. They will let go of his coat-tails the moment they conclude that his premiership is on an irreversibly downward trajectory.
Boris Johnson is not yet in the pole-axe zone, but he is stumbling into its vicinity.
Having said that, I live an ocean away so am unlikely to be invaded by Londoners. But a few more Brits in the electorate would be a welcome source of moderation.
We are getting to know him.
Edit: + classical concerts - at least a couple of proms each year.
“What’s the mood? I’ll tell you: there’s been a big increase in the number of people who think Boris is a c**t.”
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1461766554228506628
Unless you are part of the 2%, obvs.
BVI bent as fck, Cox's clients accused of trousering hurricane aid cash
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/11/20/british-virgin-islands-threatens-become-republic-amid-corruption/
Biden demented, and farted in the presence of Camilla
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225955/Health-fears-confused-President-Biden-79-anaesthetic-check-colonoscopy.html
Arcuri to disclose diaries
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/20/fresh-prospect-of-criminal-inquiry-for-boris-johnson-after-jennifer-arcuri-agrees-to-assist-ethics-watchdog
NEW THREAD
Bottas could have come in a couple of laps back.
They are at last a decade behind Paris.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20985642
So it is not a holiday destination , I cannot pick and choose what country I want to move to just because they have great benefits etc. Therefore their is another reason they want to come to UK and it is not because they are refugees. That leads me to be absolutely certain they are economic migrants looking to exploit the UK system, can be no other reason. Time it was stopped. @OnlyLivingBoy