You know, I remember back in the heady days of August 2020 when the learned pundits of PB.com were telling me that Rittenhouse was "a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm" (4 likes), compared to Anders Breivik (1 like), whose attendance at a Trump rally was evidence of "a disturbed young person's budding white racism and desire to kill in its name". And now, here we are: gun charge dismissed, not guilty on the other six charges. And this was after GoFundMe shut down the campaigns to contribute to his legal defence.
@DAlexander's comment still holds true (and could indeed be the site's motto): "It's genuinely scary that people will believe the opposite of reality if they don't like the politics of someone."
All of that's still true.
The gun charge being dismissed was because the judge "doesn't like the law".
Also dismissed were any jurors who think racism is a problem, leading to an almost all-white jury. Not just white, but whites who think racism isn't a problem.
This trial was a farce and brings shame upon America's judicial system.
The jury, the defendant and the victims were all white. A white jury delivered a verdict on a white bloke who shot white people. I don’t know if they came to the right decision, maybe not, but this misbegotten child is not the poster boy for white supremacism many make him out to be.
He shot white people who were protesting against violence against black people.
If you think that's got nothing to do with white supremacism then I've got a bridge to sell you.
He didn’t just shoot peaceful protesters which is your implication.
Indeed, one was armed with a lethal...er...skateboard.
One of them had a gun which he aimed at Rittenhouse before Rittenhouse even fired his first shot. This is absurd
The Prosecution failed as soon as that admission was made. When you aim a handgun at someone - during a violent riot - you are likely to get shot in response. Especially in America. That’s it
He was not guilty of murder.
He was (as were the people he shot) guilty of taking an assault weapon to a riot. That should be a very serious offence punishable by many years in prison.
I think the fact that he was cleared of all charges - and is being celebrated as some kind of hero - makes repeats of such shootings almost inevitable.
This is the inevitable result of the American left making out that this guy is some 18 year old proto Überhitler who wants to murder all black people in the US.
I think that the lack of acceptance and recognition that BLM protestors decided to burn down business and generally riot last summer is what rankles for the American right. The "mostly peaceful" memes from CNN still get a lot of play among right wingers and frankly they've got a point. The US liberal class has become willing to accept some kind of violence, it's hardly a surprise that the American right has responded in kind.
It's on all of them to sit down and just talk to each other, close down twitter, close down Facebook, close down Fox news, close down CNN. All of these companies exist to drive clicks, views and controversy and they do it by sowing division and hatred. The algorithms don't care that they are serving right wing conspiracy content to someone who liked a picture of a cat on a Trump supporters group and CNN don't care about reporting the truth. Everyone in the game just wants to profit from what they see as an easy way to do so. The lack of ethics and morals of corporate America are behind this and now America as a nation will pay the price.
Whether the BLM protestors chose to burn down businesses is beside the point.
It wouldn't have been OK for black men from DC to trek to Charlottesville and shoot 'Unite the Right' protestors either.
You shouldn't be travelling to riots with a gun.
Rittenhouse was clearly not guilty of murder.
But it's pretty fucked up to say 'Hey! It's OK to take a gun to a civil disturbance.' Because that way leads to people getting in positions where they feel (understandably) threatened, and then people die.
I agree with your latter point, but it clearly isn't the law in the US and you're falling into the same trap as so many others. The law isn't the same as moral right and wrong, it's the law. UK law has the concept of mens rea, I don't think the US law really covers it to the same degree as over here. Maybe it's time for a constitutional amendment to allow prosecution of intent to commit a crime.
The law of self-defence in most US States is theoretically similar to our own. It's just that the right to bear arms makes it very different in practice.
Either of Rittenhouse, or those who died at his hands, could have opened fire and have had a strong argument for self defence,
As to this trial, no conscientious jury could do otherwise than acquit him of the three most serious charges.
You know, I remember back in the heady days of August 2020 when the learned pundits of PB.com were telling me that Rittenhouse was "a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm" (4 likes), compared to Anders Breivik (1 like), whose attendance at a Trump rally was evidence of "a disturbed young person's budding white racism and desire to kill in its name". And now, here we are: gun charge dismissed, not guilty on the other six charges. And this was after GoFundMe shut down the campaigns to contribute to his legal defence.
@DAlexander's comment still holds true (and could indeed be the site's motto): "It's genuinely scary that people will believe the opposite of reality if they don't like the politics of someone."
All of that's still true.
The gun charge being dismissed was because the judge "doesn't like the law".
Also dismissed were any jurors who think racism is a problem, leading to an almost all-white jury. Not just white, but whites who think racism isn't a problem.
This trial was a farce and brings shame upon America's judicial system.
The jury, the defendant and the victims were all white. A white jury delivered a verdict on a white bloke who shot white people. I don’t know if they came to the right decision, maybe not, but this misbegotten child is not the poster boy for white supremacism many make him out to be.
He shot white people who were protesting against violence against black people.
If you think that's got nothing to do with white supremacism then I've got a bridge to sell you.
He didn’t just shoot peaceful protesters which is your implication.
Indeed, one was armed with a lethal...er...skateboard.
One of them had a gun which he aimed at Rittenhouse before Rittenhouse even fired his first shot. This is absurd
The Prosecution failed as soon as that admission was made. When you aim a handgun at someone - during a violent riot - you are likely to get shot in response. Especially in America. That’s it
He was not guilty of murder.
He was (as were the people he shot) guilty of taking an assault weapon to a riot. That should be a very serious offence punishable by many years in prison.
I think the fact that he was cleared of all charges - and is being celebrated as some kind of hero - makes repeats of such shootings almost inevitable.
This is the inevitable result of the American left making out that this guy is some 18 year old proto Überhitler who wants to murder all black people in the US.
I think that the lack of acceptance and recognition that BLM protestors decided to burn down business and generally riot last summer is what rankles for the American right. The "mostly peaceful" memes from CNN still get a lot of play among right wingers and frankly they've got a point. The US liberal class has become willing to accept some kind of violence, it's hardly a surprise that the American right has responded in kind.
It's on all of them to sit down and just talk to each other, close down twitter, close down Facebook, close down Fox news, close down CNN. All of these companies exist to drive clicks, views and controversy and they do it by sowing division and hatred. The algorithms don't care that they are serving right wing conspiracy content to someone who liked a picture of a cat on a Trump supporters group and CNN don't care about reporting the truth. Everyone in the game just wants to profit from what they see as an easy way to do so. The lack of ethics and morals of corporate America are behind this and now America as a nation will pay the price.
Whether the BLM protestors chose to burn down businesses is beside the point.
It wouldn't have been OK for black men from DC to trek to Charlottesville and shoot 'Unite the Right' protestors either.
You shouldn't be travelling to riots with a gun.
Rittenhouse was clearly not guilty of murder.
But it's pretty fucked up to say 'Hey! It's OK to take a gun to a civil disturbance.' Because that way leads to people getting in positions where they feel (understandably) threatened, and then people die.
I agree with your latter point, but it clearly isn't the law in the US and you're falling into the same trap as so many others. The law isn't the same as moral right and wrong, it's the law. UK law has the concept of mens rea, I don't think the US law really covers it to the same degree as over here. Maybe it's time for a constitutional amendment to allow prosecution of intent to commit a crime.
The law of self-defence in most US States is theoretically similar to our own. It's just that the right to bear arms makes it very different in practice.
Either of Rittenhouse, or those who died at his hands, could have opened fire and have had a strong argument for self defence,
As to this trial, no conscientious jury could do otherwise than acquit him of the three most serious charges.
Wisconsin law at least looks like it has a stronger self defence provision than our own law. "lethal force" compared to our "reasonable force".
You know, I remember back in the heady days of August 2020 when the learned pundits of PB.com were telling me that Rittenhouse was "a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm" (4 likes), compared to Anders Breivik (1 like), whose attendance at a Trump rally was evidence of "a disturbed young person's budding white racism and desire to kill in its name". And now, here we are: gun charge dismissed, not guilty on the other six charges. And this was after GoFundMe shut down the campaigns to contribute to his legal defence.
@DAlexander's comment still holds true (and could indeed be the site's motto): "It's genuinely scary that people will believe the opposite of reality if they don't like the politics of someone."
All of that's still true.
The gun charge being dismissed was because the judge "doesn't like the law".
Also dismissed were any jurors who think racism is a problem, leading to an almost all-white jury. Not just white, but whites who think racism isn't a problem.
This trial was a farce and brings shame upon America's judicial system.
Rittenhouse was clearly innocent of the charges brought. He was about to be brutally attacked and probably killed by a dangerous and violent mob. Some of them armed. Some of them with a history of extreme violence and cruelty
Should he have been there, aged 17, with a rifle? Surely not. Did he have some intent to stir trouble? Maybe, but we can’t see inside his soul
Of the charges he faced, he was innocent. It was obviously self defence. All else is verbiage
The prosecution fucked this up by not bringing charges that might have succeeded
Rittenhouse said he only pointed the gun at the people after they started chasing him.
That was the key plank of his defence.
We have video, shown in court, that he pointed the gun at them before they started chasing him. If you provoke people by pointing a gun at them is it then self defence to shoot them? The jury decided yes, you can point a loaded weapon at people then claim self defence if an altercation ensues.
The prosecution had an absolute slam dunk gun possession charge that the judge threw out because he thought the law was too confusing for normal people to understand despite the prosecution providing evidence of the people involved in supplying the gun understanding the law.
That the prosecution was also deeply incompetent is a whole other thing.
We have video, shown in court, that he pointed the gun at them before they started chasing him.
Haven't seen that video myself, certainly nothing particularly clear.
There was drone footage that was a little damning that the prosecution wanted to get thrown out.
But it doesn't really matter. Rittenhouse was a dick. But he was also genuinely afraid for his life. He panicked and shot people.
The solution is not to claim he was some kind of Uber Fuhrer, but to try to discourage people from taking guns to riots.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
You know, I remember back in the heady days of August 2020 when the learned pundits of PB.com were telling me that Rittenhouse was "a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm" (4 likes), compared to Anders Breivik (1 like), whose attendance at a Trump rally was evidence of "a disturbed young person's budding white racism and desire to kill in its name". And now, here we are: gun charge dismissed, not guilty on the other six charges. And this was after GoFundMe shut down the campaigns to contribute to his legal defence.
@DAlexander's comment still holds true (and could indeed be the site's motto): "It's genuinely scary that people will believe the opposite of reality if they don't like the politics of someone."
All of that's still true.
The gun charge being dismissed was because the judge "doesn't like the law".
Also dismissed were any jurors who think racism is a problem, leading to an almost all-white jury. Not just white, but whites who think racism isn't a problem.
This trial was a farce and brings shame upon America's judicial system.
The jury, the defendant and the victims were all white. A white jury delivered a verdict on a white bloke who shot white people. I don’t know if they came to the right decision, maybe not, but this misbegotten child is not the poster boy for white supremacism many make him out to be.
He shot white people who were protesting against violence against black people.
If you think that's got nothing to do with white supremacism then I've got a bridge to sell you.
He didn’t just shoot peaceful protesters which is your implication.
Indeed, one was armed with a lethal...er...skateboard.
One of them had a gun which he aimed at Rittenhouse before Rittenhouse even fired his first shot. This is absurd
The Prosecution failed as soon as that admission was made. When you aim a handgun at someone - during a violent riot - you are likely to get shot in response. Especially in America. That’s it
He was not guilty of murder.
He was (as were the people he shot) guilty of taking an assault weapon to a riot. That should be a very serious offence punishable by many years in prison.
I think the fact that he was cleared of all charges - and is being celebrated as some kind of hero - makes repeats of such shootings almost inevitable.
This is the inevitable result of the American left making out that this guy is some 18 year old proto Überhitler who wants to murder all black people in the US.
I think that the lack of acceptance and recognition that BLM protestors decided to burn down business and generally riot last summer is what rankles for the American right. The "mostly peaceful" memes from CNN still get a lot of play among right wingers and frankly they've got a point. The US liberal class has become willing to accept some kind of violence, it's hardly a surprise that the American right has responded in kind.
It's on all of them to sit down and just talk to each other, close down twitter, close down Facebook, close down Fox news, close down CNN. All of these companies exist to drive clicks, views and controversy and they do it by sowing division and hatred. The algorithms don't care that they are serving right wing conspiracy content to someone who liked a picture of a cat on a Trump supporters group and CNN don't care about reporting the truth. Everyone in the game just wants to profit from what they see as an easy way to do so. The lack of ethics and morals of corporate America are behind this and now America as a nation will pay the price.
Whether the BLM protestors chose to burn down businesses is beside the point.
It wouldn't have been OK for black men from DC to trek to Charlottesville and shoot 'Unite the Right' protestors either.
You shouldn't be travelling to riots with a gun.
Rittenhouse was clearly not guilty of murder.
But it's pretty fucked up to say 'Hey! It's OK to take a gun to a civil disturbance.' Because that way leads to people getting in positions where they feel (understandably) threatened, and then people die.
I agree with your latter point, but it clearly isn't the law in the US and you're falling into the same trap as so many others. The law isn't the same as moral right and wrong, it's the law. UK law has the concept of mens rea, I don't think the US law really covers it to the same degree as over here. Maybe it's time for a constitutional amendment to allow prosecution of intent to commit a crime.
The law of self-defence in most US States is theoretically similar to our own. It's just that the right to bear arms makes it very different in practice.
Either of Rittenhouse, or those who died at his hands, could have opened fire and have had a strong argument for self defence,
As to this trial, no conscientious jury could do otherwise than acquit him of the three most serious charges.
After the prosecution witness blew the case with his statement that yes, he was pointing a gun at the accused and advancing menacingly the case was all done. If Rittenhouse had shot these guys in the back while they were walking away it's an open and shut case and that the case the prosecution wanted to make, but sadly for them the jury has eyes and ears.
You know, I remember back in the heady days of August 2020 when the learned pundits of PB.com were telling me that Rittenhouse was "a juvenile white supremacist, 'blue lives matter' fanatic armed with an illegal firearm" (4 likes), compared to Anders Breivik (1 like), whose attendance at a Trump rally was evidence of "a disturbed young person's budding white racism and desire to kill in its name". And now, here we are: gun charge dismissed, not guilty on the other six charges. And this was after GoFundMe shut down the campaigns to contribute to his legal defence.
@DAlexander's comment still holds true (and could indeed be the site's motto): "It's genuinely scary that people will believe the opposite of reality if they don't like the politics of someone."
All of that's still true.
The gun charge being dismissed was because the judge "doesn't like the law".
Also dismissed were any jurors who think racism is a problem, leading to an almost all-white jury. Not just white, but whites who think racism isn't a problem.
This trial was a farce and brings shame upon America's judicial system.
Rittenhouse was clearly innocent of the charges brought. He was about to be brutally attacked and probably killed by a dangerous and violent mob. Some of them armed. Some of them with a history of extreme violence and cruelty
Should he have been there, aged 17, with a rifle? Surely not. Did he have some intent to stir trouble? Maybe, but we can’t see inside his soul
Of the charges he faced, he was innocent. It was obviously self defence. All else is verbiage
The prosecution fucked this up by not bringing charges that might have succeeded
Rittenhouse said he only pointed the gun at the people after they started chasing him.
That was the key plank of his defence.
We have video, shown in court, that he pointed the gun at them before they started chasing him. If you provoke people by pointing a gun at them is it then self defence to shoot them? The jury decided yes, you can point a loaded weapon at people then claim self defence if an altercation ensues.
The prosecution had an absolute slam dunk gun possession charge that the judge threw out because he thought the law was too confusing for normal people to understand despite the prosecution providing evidence of the people involved in supplying the gun understanding the law.
That the prosecution was also deeply incompetent is a whole other thing.
We have video, shown in court, that he pointed the gun at them before they started chasing him.
Haven't seen that video myself, certainly nothing particularly clear.
There was drone footage that was a little damning that the prosecution wanted to get thrown out.
But it doesn't really matter. Rittenhouse was a dick. But he was also genuinely afraid for his life. He panicked and shot people.
The solution is not to claim he was some kind of Uber Fuhrer, but to try to discourage people from taking guns to riots.
Biden’s statement is regrettable, but hardly on a par with Trump. Get some perspective.
I don't think they're equivalent as Trump very nearly totally destroyed American democracy. I worry that the Biden statement will sufficiently undermine the judiciary and cause riots across the US where the validity of the result is less important than their feelings or upset, the president agrees with them.
Biden’s statement is regrettable, but hardly on a par with Trump. Get some perspective.
I don't think they're equivalent as Trump very nearly totally destroyed American democracy. I worry that the Biden statement will sufficiently undermine the judiciary and cause riots across the US where the validity of the result is less important than their feelings or upset, the president agrees with them.
I think it’s irresponsible. Mind you I thought the May government said a lot of irresponsible things about judicial process too.
Meanwhile it seems Tim Paine has resigned because of what looks like an entirely consensual, if dirty, text message conversation...
... wondering how far back my texts go
He's a married man.
Cheating men are degenerates.
It says a lot about how bad our standards that we have a persistent adulterer as PM but the Aussies realise a potential adulterer cannot captain their cricket team and they've had that cheat Steve Smith as captain.
As sending a dick pic is technically a criminal offence in the UK, and probably also in Oz, he seems an ideal guy to lead the convicts.
The trouble with Australia is not that it is run by the descendants of convicts, but that it is run by the descendants of prison officers.
Biden’s statement is regrettable, but hardly on a par with Trump. Get some perspective.
I don't think they're equivalent as Trump very nearly totally destroyed American democracy. I worry that the Biden statement will sufficiently undermine the judiciary and cause riots across the US where the validity of the result is less important than their feelings or upset, the president agrees with them.
The Venn diagram of Biden voters & people that think Rittenhouse acted in self defence is slim in the USA, and probably the ones he needs to keep onside for re-election... Midterms are long gone for the Dems.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He also said that "we must acknowledge the jury has spoken". Which of us hasn't been angry and concerned about court verdicts?
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
He, the head of the executive branch, said he was angry with the outcome of a highly sensitive trial. You can’t see the problems there?
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He also said that "we must acknowledge the jury has spoken". Which of us hasn't been angry and concerned about court verdicts?
We aren't the President though. He should ungrit his teeth as well.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He also said that "we must acknowledge the jury has spoken". Which of us hasn't been angry and concerned about court verdicts?
Indeed so, but as president should he be taking sides?
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He also said that "we must acknowledge the jury has spoken". Which of us hasn't been angry and concerned about court verdicts?
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
He, the head of the executive branch, said he was angry with the outcome of a highly sensitive trial. You can’t see the problems there?
Also, he has a responsibility to avoid further inflaming sentiment.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He also said that "we must acknowledge the jury has spoken". Which of us hasn't been angry and concerned about court verdicts?
No need to communicate it whilst you're the president. I don't think Biden has written the statement to be perfectly honest, looks like something from a staffer who wanted to indicate Biden is broadly on the side of the left here.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
I can't agree. He's being honest.
I cannot see it as a big deal. Certainly not even registering on the scale compared with the daily stream of effluent that was sprayed out during the Trump years.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
I can't agree. He's being honest. I cannot see it as a big deal. Certainly not even registering on the scale comapred with the daily stream of effluent that was sprayed out during the Trump years.
He should have bit his tongue, or (much more likely) sack the staffer who wrote it. It is inflammatory, and he has no business basically saying the jury was wrong.
I haven’t followed the Rittenhouse case but I can absolutely see why he was acquitted of murder.
What confuses me is the absence of a manslaughter count, but I guess that is the DA’s decision.
Many are posting on Twitter that no black man would receive the same treatment but that surely doesn’t mean Rittenhouse should be treated unjustly.
Finally, I prefer a jury trial that lets a guilty man go free than various alternatives.
You aren't going to like it, the answer is wokism gone mad, the prosecution wanted to keep the Twatter mob on side so went for murder in the first degree rather than a lesser charge which would have probably got him a 5-10 year sentence.
Having considered for a moment, I agree with the poster (Leon?) who said it is also politically stupid.
It is so politically stupid I wonder if Biden even said it. He’s quite away with the fairies, sad to say.
Perhaps some ultra-woke member of his staff?
Either way, an egregious, foolish and potentially dangerous error
It would have probably been drafted for him by his staff; he signed it off probably without thinking it through. Sensible people are obviously in short supply, as was the case under Trump; there are actually many similarities between the two presidencies.
If only we could get Obama back: much better than these clowns.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He didn’t though. He said “many Americans” will be concerned and angry but that the jury has spoken
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
I can't agree. He's being honest. I cannot see it as a big deal. Certainly not even registering on the scale comapred with the daily stream of effluent that was sprayed out during the Trump years.
He should have bit his tongue, or (much more likely) sack the staffer who wrote it. It is inflammatory, and he has no business basically saying the jury was wrong.
Staffer? Wasn't Kamala in charge today? Her maybe.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
I can't agree. He's being honest.
I cannot see it as a big deal. Certainly not even registering on the scale compared with the daily stream of effluent that was sprayed out during the Trump years.
Isn't the point that we're not in the Trump years now? Yet here we are with the POTUS undermining the result of a jury trial and ultimately the trial process.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
What’s worse, Biden made this statement about an hour after claiming he ‘hadn’t watched the trial’. So what the festering fuck is he ‘angry and concerned’ about?
It’s so ill-advised and inflammatory I wonder if his statement was sabotaged? Either way Biden has almost no chance of being the Dem Nom in 2024
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He didn’t though. He said “many Americans” will be concerned and angry but that the jury has spoken
“… will leave many Americans concerned and angry, myself included…”
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He didn’t though. He said “many Americans” will be concerned and angry but that the jury has spoken
"While the verdict in Kenosha will leave many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included"
Is the problem, Charles. He's declared himself unsatisfied with the result of a jury trial. That's a very poor idea from the President.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
What’s worse, Biden made this statement about an hour after claiming he ‘hadn’t watched the trial’. So what the festering fuck is he ‘angry and concerned’ about?
It’s so ill-advised and inflammatory I wonder if his statement was sabotaged? Either way Biden has almost no chance of being the Dem Nom in 2024
He was probably told he should be concerned and angry.
Farage, on his GB News show last night, said he’d heard Rafiq has racked up massive gambling debts
Be interesting to see if the libel suits head his way. He had better have some bloody good proof to accuse anyone, let alone a Muslim for whom gambling is strictly forbidden, of being massively in debt.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
I can't agree. He's being honest.
I cannot see it as a big deal. Certainly not even registering on the scale compared with the daily stream of effluent that was sprayed out during the Trump years.
Isn't the point that we're not in the Trump years now? Yet here we are with the POTUS undermining the result of a jury trial and ultimately the trial process.
No! He's not undermining it, he's expressing concern. The decision stands and is not going to be changed.
Compare and contrast to Trump's undermining of the democratic process - now that's what I call undermining.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
What’s worse, Biden made this statement about an hour after claiming he ‘hadn’t watched the trial’. So what the festering fuck is he ‘angry and concerned’ about?
It’s so ill-advised and inflammatory I wonder if his statement was sabotaged? Either way Biden has almost no chance of being the Dem Nom in 2024
?? Don't think that follows - people upset by the verdict and Dem primary voters are pretty much a circle.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
I can't agree. He's being honest.
I cannot see it as a big deal. Certainly not even registering on the scale compared with the daily stream of effluent that was sprayed out during the Trump years.
Isn't the point that we're not in the Trump years now? Yet here we are with the POTUS undermining the result of a jury trial and ultimately the trial process.
No! He's not undermining it, he's expressing concern. The decision stands and is not going to be changed.
Compare and contrast to Trump's undermining of the democratic process - now that's what I call undermining.
There’s no need for a Trump comparison.
Biden needs to respect the judicial process and to show respect for that process. That one little clause, “as do I”, is a mistake.
It will be used against him by his enemies too, maybe for a long time.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Nope you don't get away with that one. It is one of those classic dog whistles you like to talk about and is designed specifically to say that he has to publicly accept the result but he thinks it is wrong and so should everyone else. You and I can say that sort of thing because we are nobodies. He can't.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
So you think the jury got it wrong then and he should have been locked up?
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He didn’t though. He said “many Americans” will be concerned and angry but that the jury has spoken
You missed out part of the quote Charles "many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included"
Lots of Biden Derangement Syndrome on here tonight.
Actually, I think it’s more America Derangement Syndrome.
America keeps doing crazy shit, from left and right, and it unnerves us all. It wouldn’t matter if America was Belgium or Ecuador or Norway. But it is the primary global superpower (for now, if not much longer) and the defender of western freedom. It is all very sad
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He didn’t though. He said “many Americans” will be concerned and angry but that the jury has spoken
You missed out part of the quote Charles "many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included"
Thing is you exclude ,myself included, and the statement is absolubtely 100% fine.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Ben we are fellow travellers, but the Prez shouldn’t be anywhere near criticising a jury decision.
I can't agree. He's being honest.
I cannot see it as a big deal. Certainly not even registering on the scale compared with the daily stream of effluent that was sprayed out during the Trump years.
Isn't the point that we're not in the Trump years now? Yet here we are with the POTUS undermining the result of a jury trial and ultimately the trial process.
No! He's not undermining it, he's expressing concern. The decision stands and is not going to be changed.
Compare and contrast to Trump's undermining of the democratic process - now that's what I call undermining.
Maybe it would be better for elected politicians to not comment at all on trial verdicts.
Lots of Biden Derangement Syndrome on here tonight.
Actually, I think it’s more America Derangement Syndrome.
America keeps doing crazy shit, from left and right, and it unnerves us all. It wouldn’t matter if America was Belgium or Ecuador or Norway. But it is the primary global superpower (for now, if not much longer) and the defender of western freedom. It is all very sad
But it's people on this side of the pond overreacting, that's I'm taking about. Of course America's fucked, we all knew that already.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
So you think the jury got it wrong then and he should have been locked up?
The most frightening thing is that the jury almost certainly got it right. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to be angry and concerned that a private citizen can legally take a gun to a demonstration and kill people.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
So you think the jury got it wrong then and he should have been locked up?
I think the process got it wrong, yes. I think the jury was carefully selected, the judge's directions were biased, and the prosecution was poor.
I ask again: what do you honestly think the trial outcome would have been had Rittenhouse been black?
Personally I think 'concern' would probably be fine, but being 'angry' is an unwise comment. Words can contradict each other, that's not controversial as any non-apology containing the word apology shows.
That he is nowhere near as bad as Trump on undermining things is neither here nor there - of course he is a lot better than Trump, that's a base level expectaton. Biden remains a far far far better option for the USA,
There's no need to do a compare and contrast, because it isn't a competition to see which is worse (at least not until the 2024). Like all the debates recently on racism and political standards - one side being worse wouldn't mean the sins of the other escape criticism, even if it was less than the other lot deservedly get.
It's the old 'what if the other side said it' test - would it be felt unworthy of criticism then? I don't think it would have been. And very very few here are Trump fans so that's easy enough to acknowledge.
If I was drafting the statement I'd have left out 'myself included', or say 'which I understand' instead about the anger and concern to make the same point.
Personally I think 'concern' would probably be fine, but being 'angry' is an unwise comment. Words can contradict each other, that's not controversial as any non-apology containing the word apology shows, and it is
That he is nowhere near as bad as Trump on undermining things is neither here nor there - of course he is a lot better than Trump, that's a base level expectaton.
There's no need to do a compare and contrast, because it isn't a competition to see which is worse (at least not until the 2024). Like all the debates recently on racism and political standards - one side being worse wouldn't mean the sins of the other escape criticism, even if it was less than the other lot deservedly get.
It's the old 'what if the other side said it' test - would it be felt unworthy of criticism then? I don't think it would have been. And very very few here are Trump fans that's easy enough to acknowledge.
If I was drafting the statement I'd have left out 'myself included', or say 'which I understand' instead about the anger and concern to make the same point.
Lots of Biden Derangement Syndrome on here tonight.
Actually, I think it’s more America Derangement Syndrome.
America keeps doing crazy shit, from left and right, and it unnerves us all. It wouldn’t matter if America was Belgium or Ecuador or Norway. But it is the primary global superpower (for now, if not much longer) and the defender of western freedom. It is all very sad
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
The president has just declared himself "concerned" about the result of a jury trial. That's an extremely poor idea.
He didn’t though. He said “many Americans” will be concerned and angry but that the jury has spoken
You missed out part of the quote Charles "many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included"
Thing is you exclude ,myself included, and the statement is absolubtely 100% fine.
Yep agreed. Though I would have liked to see him go further and stand solidly behind the result. Not because I think Rittenhouse should be exonerated, but because it is one of his most important duties to maintain absolute confidence in the judicial system. Even if privately he thinks it is wrong and Rittenhouse should be behind bars.
All of these trappings of civilisation - elections, the judicial system and the police - only work through the consent and confidence of the people. They can go wrong and when they do politicians have to take measured steps to correct them. But just as Johnson was completely wrong for attacking the judiciary in this country or for attacking the standards commissioner in the last few weeks, Biden is wrong to cast doubt on the validity of a jury trial. He should be better than Trump but he is trying the same game - if in an admittedly rather more measured way.
Personally I think 'concern' would probably be fine, but being 'angry' is an unwise comment. Words can contradict each other, that's not controversial as any non-apology containing the word apology shows.
That he is nowhere near as bad as Trump on undermining things is neither here nor there - of course he is a lot better than Trump, that's a base level expectaton. Biden remains a far far far better option for the USA,
There's no need to do a compare and contrast, because it isn't a competition to see which is worse (at least not until the 2024). Like all the debates recently on racism and political standards - one side being worse wouldn't mean the sins of the other escape criticism, even if it was less than the other lot deservedly get.
It's the old 'what if the other side said it' test - would it be felt unworthy of criticism then? I don't think it would have been. And very very few here are Trump fans so that's easy enough to acknowledge.
If I was drafting the statement I'd have left out 'myself included', or say 'which I understand' instead about the anger and concern to make the same point.
Biden was just firing up his base with his statement on the Rittenhouse verdict tonight as Trump regularly fired up his base as President.
There is very little middle ground in the US today.
O/T went to an interesting talk this evening by Joseph Kennedy III on democracy and inequality in the US
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
So you think the jury got it wrong then and he should have been locked up?
I think the process got it wrong, yes. I think the jury was carefully selected, the judge's directions were biased, and the prosecution was poor.
I ask again: what do you honestly think the trial outcome would have been had Rittenhouse been black?
Good thing you aren't the President, then. You're effectively saying that the trial result isn't legitimate.
On your second question - I don't care. That's not what happened and if it does, maybe I'll have a think and answer.
Personally I think 'concern' would probably be fine, but being 'angry' is an unwise comment. Words can contradict each other, that's not controversial as any non-apology containing the word apology shows.
That he is nowhere near as bad as Trump on undermining things is neither here nor there - of course he is a lot better than Trump, that's a base level expectaton. Biden remains a far far far better option for the USA,
There's no need to do a compare and contrast, because it isn't a competition to see which is worse (at least not until the 2024). Like all the debates recently on racism and political standards - one side being worse wouldn't mean the sins of the other escape criticism, even if it was less than the other lot deservedly get.
It's the old 'what if the other side said it' test - would it be felt unworthy of criticism then? I don't think it would have been. And very very few here are Trump fans so that's easy enough to acknowledge.
If I was drafting the statement I'd have left out 'myself included', or say 'which I understand' instead about the anger and concern to make the same point.
Biden was just firing up his base with his statement tonight as Trump fired up his base as President.
There is very little middle ground in the US today.
I do not think I would like to be a political nerd in the USA. The middle ground is where I feel comfortable, to seek a level of detachment from the tribalism, even if I cannot always find my way there as I'm not an automaton.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
So you think the jury got it wrong then and he should have been locked up?
The most frightening thing is that the jury almost certainly got it right. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to be angry and concerned that a private citizen can legally take a gun to a demonstration and kill people.
I have just liked your comment and I agree. But it is worth remembering that it is a very different society over there. Generally we don't worry too much in the UK that demonstrators are going to burn out whole blocks or take control of the streets from the police and attack people including using firearms. All these things have happened in the US in the last few years and it is a completely different narrative.
For comparison, imagine a UK prime minister saying he is ‘angry and concerned’ about a Not Guilty verdict, brought by a jury, in a highly charged and politicized Old Bailey trial - and imagine him or her saying it just two hours after the verdict.
It just wouldn’t happen. I hope. Because we are not so corroded by the Culture Wars, yet.
There is Separation of Powers for a reason. America is perilously close to abandoning this, besieged by the extremists on both sides
Personally I think 'concern' would probably be fine, but being 'angry' is an unwise comment. Words can contradict each other, that's not controversial as any non-apology containing the word apology shows.
That he is nowhere near as bad as Trump on undermining things is neither here nor there - of course he is a lot better than Trump, that's a base level expectaton. Biden remains a far far far better option for the USA,
There's no need to do a compare and contrast, because it isn't a competition to see which is worse (at least not until the 2024). Like all the debates recently on racism and political standards - one side being worse wouldn't mean the sins of the other escape criticism, even if it was less than the other lot deservedly get.
It's the old 'what if the other side said it' test - would it be felt unworthy of criticism then? I don't think it would have been. And very very few here are Trump fans so that's easy enough to acknowledge.
If I was drafting the statement I'd have left out 'myself included', or say 'which I understand' instead about the anger and concern to make the same point.
Biden was just firing up his base with his statement on the Rittenhouse verdict tonight as Trump regularly fired up his base as President.
There is very little middle ground in the US today.
O/T went to an interesting talk this evening by Joseph Kennedy III on democracy and inequality in the US
I mean, this is exactly wrong. He's clearly placating those who are angry. It's classic psychology, you start from appearing to agree with the angry people you're talking to, then you bring some calm sense into the mix, then you say what you want your audience to do. And they MIGHT just listen to you because you started with some common ground.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
So you think the jury got it wrong then and he should have been locked up?
I think the process got it wrong, yes. I think the jury was carefully selected, the judge's directions were biased, and the prosecution was poor.
I ask again: what do you honestly think the trial outcome would have been had Rittenhouse been black?
Good thing you aren't the President, then. You're effectively saying that the trial result isn't legitimate.
On your second question - I don't care. That's not what happened and if it does, maybe I'll have a think and answer.
I do think the trial result isn't legitimate. I would still think that if I were POTUS but I wouldn't say so publicly; neither did Biden.
Edit: I should clarify that: I acknowledge of course that the trial result is 'legitimate' in a sense that it's gone through due process, I just do not think it was a fair trial.
On my second question you *know* the answer, you don't have to think about it, you just don't want to say it.
Personally I think 'concern' would probably be fine, but being 'angry' is an unwise comment. Words can contradict each other, that's not controversial as any non-apology containing the word apology shows.
That he is nowhere near as bad as Trump on undermining things is neither here nor there - of course he is a lot better than Trump, that's a base level expectaton. Biden remains a far far far better option for the USA,
There's no need to do a compare and contrast, because it isn't a competition to see which is worse (at least not until the 2024). Like all the debates recently on racism and political standards - one side being worse wouldn't mean the sins of the other escape criticism, even if it was less than the other lot deservedly get.
It's the old 'what if the other side said it' test - would it be felt unworthy of criticism then? I don't think it would have been. And very very few here are Trump fans so that's easy enough to acknowledge.
If I was drafting the statement I'd have left out 'myself included', or say 'which I understand' instead about the anger and concern to make the same point.
Biden was just firing up his base with his statement tonight as Trump fired up his base as President.
There is very little middle ground in the US today.
I do not think I would like to be a political nerd in the USA. The middle ground is where I feel comfortable, to seek a level of detachment from the tribalism, even if I cannot always find my way there as I'm not an automaton.
I often think that. I like the 'sport'. I have a team, sure, and I like to see my team win. As a supporter of Leeds United, I'm also capable of acknowledging when my team might be playing the game badly (I hope), but the game is more important than the team. At least through the lense of the media, this position does not seem to exist in the Titanic struggle for civilisation that is the tribal contest between the god forsaken Republican and Democratic Parties. I don't think Matt Forde's Political Party podcast could exist in America (despite looking, I've not found anything like it).
For comparison, imagine a UK prime minister saying he is ‘angry and concerned’ about a Not Guilty verdict, brought by a jury, in a highly charged and politicized Old Bailey trial - and imagine him or her saying it just two hours after the verdict.
It just wouldn’t happen. I hope. Because we are not so corroded by the Culture Wars, yet.
There is Separation of Powers for a reason. America is perilously close to abandoning this, besieged by the extremists on both sides
Not yet but not far off.
Yougov today had more 2019 Tory voters going to ReformUK than Starmer Labour or the LDs, our politics too is increasingly polarised
Not so easy for ex cons, though I suppose he could try washing dishes or stacking shelves if he can get a job doing that. Bit of a come down from being a former Reed Smith tax partner and Tory MP but it might help pay the bills
Incredible stuff. Banana Republic both in intent and execution.
If you believe it. The whole scenario is laughable and a desperate attempt by a dead newspaper to seem relevant.
You find it unbelievable that he would make such a comment and authorize such a phone call?
I find the coincidence that when the PM is having a tough time of it elsewhere this newspaper suddenly gets a legal threat for something no one really cared about in the first place tough to believe. They're a joke and you want to believe them. I have no love for the PM, in fact I think I probably loathe him more than you do, this just strikes me as extremely unlikely.
In that case Matt Kelly has defamed the PM and the PM's head of comms to an extent worth millions in costs and damages and destroyed his own reputation as a serious journalist.
Or, a known betrayer, liar and bully has committed a couple more betrayals and lies and commissioned another bit of bullying.
Tricky one.
Nah, serious journalists don't write for the New European. It's a joke of a paper, he's just trying to keep it relevant by jumping onto the bandwagon. Has anyone in the country thought about their article until today, or even the newspaper? He's achieved what he's set out to do and he's also done it in a way where he doesn't have to show his working. It's a smart move, but ultimately I don't buy it.
He was the night editor of the Mirror.
You are missing the rather simple logic of the situation. Either what he says is true - big story - or it is false but he is being allowed to get away with it - big story.
+1 - if the story isn't 100% true why aren't No 10 / Jack Doyle suing them - it would be a very open and shut case.
The fact Jack Doyle isn't suing them tells you a great deal
1) the original story is true and equally 2) Boris and No 10 are so desperate that they are attempting to bully complete non entities of a paper for reasons unknown...
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
So you think the jury got it wrong then and he should have been locked up?
I think the process got it wrong, yes. I think the jury was carefully selected, the judge's directions were biased, and the prosecution was poor.
I ask again: what do you honestly think the trial outcome would have been had Rittenhouse been black?
Good thing you aren't the President, then. You're effectively saying that the trial result isn't legitimate.
On your second question - I don't care. That's not what happened and if it does, maybe I'll have a think and answer.
I do think the trial result isn't legitimate. I would still think that if I were POTUS but I wouldn't say so publicly; neither did Biden.
Edit: I should clarify that: I acknowledge of course that the trial result is 'legitimate' in a sense that it's gone through due process, I just do not think it was a fair trial.
On my second question you *know* the answer, you don't have to think about it, you just don't want to say it.
The answer to your second question is OBVIOUSLY a black man would have had much poorer prospects of getting acquitted, but that does not mean this acquittal was wrong.
Not so easy for ex cons, though I suppose he could try washing dishes or stacking shelves if he can get a job doing that. Bit of a come down from being a former Reed Smith tax partner and Tory MP but it might help pay the bills
We're regularly told on here by PB Tories that there are plenty of job vacancies.
The US is a land of entrenched institutional cruelty and many thousands of everyday, unasked for, kindnesses. It is the most foreign country I have ever been to. A place I cannot begin to understand.
Not so easy for ex cons, though I suppose he could try washing dishes or stacking shelves if he can get a job doing that. Bit of a come down from being a former Reed Smith tax partner and Tory MP but it might help pay the bills
We're regularly told on here by PB Tories that there are plenty of job vacancies.
There are a number but he has the added hurdle of a criminal conviction before he gets another job
For comparison, imagine a UK prime minister saying he is ‘angry and concerned’ about a Not Guilty verdict, brought by a jury, in a highly charged and politicized Old Bailey trial - and imagine him or her saying it just two hours after the verdict.
It just wouldn’t happen. I hope. Because we are not so corroded by the Culture Wars, yet.
There is Separation of Powers for a reason. America is perilously close to abandoning this, besieged by the extremists on both sides
Not yet but not far off.
Yougov today had more 2019 Tory voters going to ReformUK than Starmer Labour or the LDs, our politics too is increasingly polarised
And yet. We have the most Centrist Labour leader since they left government. And a Tory Party who have abandoned austerity and Thatcherism in word, if not entirely in deed, for a more social democratic direction. We have no one to the extreme of either polling 10 % regularly either.
For comparison, imagine a UK prime minister saying he is ‘angry and concerned’ about a Not Guilty verdict, brought by a jury, in a highly charged and politicized Old Bailey trial - and imagine him or her saying it just two hours after the verdict.
It just wouldn’t happen. I hope. Because we are not so corroded by the Culture Wars, yet.
There is Separation of Powers for a reason. America is perilously close to abandoning this, besieged by the extremists on both sides
I agree. But although a different context, weren't many in our government and press openly critical of a judicial decision made by Lady Hale and a unanimous Supreme Court a while back? Enemies of the people, indeed.
Not so easy for ex cons, though I suppose he could try washing dishes or stacking shelves if he can get a job doing that. Bit of a come down from being a former Reed Smith tax partner and Tory MP but it might help pay the bills
There are lots of times when politicians express concern at the verdicts of juries. They then seek to improve the quality of the prosecution, or to change the law.
There were many Tory MPs who sought a change in the law relating to self-defence after the Tony Martin murder trial, for example. Though I might have disagreed with that, it is part of the democratic process to discuss possible changes to the law in response to particular verdicts that seem to offend people's sense of natural justice.
There's no reason why some people might argue for changes to the law in the US so that a similar case in the future might reach a different verdict.
For comparison, imagine a UK prime minister saying he is ‘angry and concerned’ about a Not Guilty verdict, brought by a jury, in a highly charged and politicized Old Bailey trial - and imagine him or her saying it just two hours after the verdict.
It just wouldn’t happen. I hope. Because we are not so corroded by the Culture Wars, yet.
There is Separation of Powers for a reason. America is perilously close to abandoning this, besieged by the extremists on both sides
Not yet but not far off.
Yougov today had more 2019 Tory voters going to ReformUK than Starmer Labour or the LDs, our politics too is increasingly polarised
And yet. We have the most Centrist Labour leader since they left government. And a Tory Party who have abandoned austerity and Thatcherism in word, if not entirely in deed, for a more social democratic direction. We have no one to the extreme of either polling 10 % regularly either.
RefUK are on 5% and the Greens on 10% with Yougov today, the divide is more over culture (over here including Brexit) than economics, as to some extent it increasingly is in the US too
Not so easy for ex cons, though I suppose he could try washing dishes or stacking shelves if he can get a job doing that. Bit of a come down from being a former Reed Smith tax partner and Tory MP but it might help pay the bills
We're regularly told on here by PB Tories that there are plenty of job vacancies.
There are a number but he has the added hurdle of a criminal conviction before he gets another job
Yes, that will make it much more difficult for him.
He won't be getting UC if he is living as a couple with his MP wife though.
Not so easy for ex cons, though I suppose he could try washing dishes or stacking shelves if he can get a job doing that. Bit of a come down from being a former Reed Smith tax partner and Tory MP but it might help pay the bills
We're regularly told on here by PB Tories that there are plenty of job vacancies.
There are a number but he has the added hurdle of a criminal conviction before he gets another job
Yes, that will make it much more difficult for him.
He won't be getting UC if he is living as a couple with his MP wife though.
Biden says he's "angry and concerned" about the verdict.
That is beyond irresponsible. There was a trial. The jury deliberated for several days. They reached an entirely understandable conclusion (even if you disagree you can see why they reached this verdict)
Justice was done. And the PRESIDENT casts doubt on the verdict and says he is ‘angry’?
So why not go out and riot against the judicial system. It’s rigged. The president says so
Biden is as bad as Trump
It's a really rubbish statement, Trump undermined the election system, Biden is undermining the judicial system. What the fuck is he thinking.
I cannot think of a statement better designed to alienate floating ‘white’ voters. Those people in the suburbs who went republican in Virginia
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I must be reading a different statement - it seems fine to me.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
Hang on. Last year you were quite rightly attacking the Tories for attempting to undermine faith in the judiciary in this country. How come now you are happy with a US president criticising the decision of a jury trial? You and I are quite at liberty to criticise and personally I don't think any of the players came out of this trial looking good at all. But Biden is in a position of power and the last thing he should be doing is saying he is 'angry and concerned' that someone was found not guilty.
He's 'angry and concerned' but 'the jury has spoken'. He clearly accepts that the latter wins the day... no attempt to overturn or undermine that jury's decision.
Then what's he concerned about?
Same as me I guess... a man shoots two others and there's no crime committed?
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
So you think the jury got it wrong then and he should have been locked up?
I think the process got it wrong, yes. I think the jury was carefully selected, the judge's directions were biased, and the prosecution was poor.
I ask again: what do you honestly think the trial outcome would have been had Rittenhouse been black?
Good thing you aren't the President, then. You're effectively saying that the trial result isn't legitimate.
On your second question - I don't care. That's not what happened and if it does, maybe I'll have a think and answer.
I do think the trial result isn't legitimate. I would still think that if I were POTUS but I wouldn't say so publicly; neither did Biden.
Edit: I should clarify that: I acknowledge of course that the trial result is 'legitimate' in a sense that it's gone through due process, I just do not think it was a fair trial.
On my second question you *know* the answer, you don't have to think about it, you just don't want to say it.
The answer to your second question is OBVIOUSLY a black man would have had much poorer prospects of getting acquitted, but that does not mean this acquittal was wrong.
Not so easy for ex cons, though I suppose he could try washing dishes or stacking shelves if he can get a job doing that. Bit of a come down from being a former Reed Smith tax partner and Tory MP but it might help pay the bills
We're regularly told on here by PB Tories that there are plenty of job vacancies.
There are a number but he has the added hurdle of a criminal conviction before he gets another job
Yes, that will make it much more difficult for him.
He won't be getting UC if he is living as a couple with his MP wife though.
He isn't now, they have separated
Ah, ok. Wikipedia is out of date then:
"On his release from prison in September 2021 Elphicke returned to the couple's marital home."
For comparison, imagine a UK prime minister saying he is ‘angry and concerned’ about a Not Guilty verdict, brought by a jury, in a highly charged and politicized Old Bailey trial - and imagine him or her saying it just two hours after the verdict.
It just wouldn’t happen. I hope. Because we are not so corroded by the Culture Wars, yet.
There is Separation of Powers for a reason. America is perilously close to abandoning this, besieged by the extremists on both sides
Not yet but not far off.
Yougov today had more 2019 Tory voters going to ReformUK than Starmer Labour or the LDs, our politics too is increasingly polarised
And yet. We have the most Centrist Labour leader since they left government. And a Tory Party who have abandoned austerity and Thatcherism in word, if not entirely in deed, for a more social democratic direction. We have no one to the extreme of either polling 10 % regularly either.
RefUK are on 5% and the Greens on 10% with Yougov today, the divide is more over culture (over here including Brexit) than economics, as to some extent it increasingly is in the US too
Is it? I think "culture" unless so broadly drawn as to be meaningless, is overblown here. No one on here, for example, argues for roaming the streets with an assault weapon as being fine and dandy.
For comparison, imagine a UK prime minister saying he is ‘angry and concerned’ about a Not Guilty verdict, brought by a jury, in a highly charged and politicized Old Bailey trial - and imagine him or her saying it just two hours after the verdict.
It just wouldn’t happen. I hope. Because we are not so corroded by the Culture Wars, yet.
There is Separation of Powers for a reason. America is perilously close to abandoning this, besieged by the extremists on both sides
It was a clumsy statement. But it was preceded by this: "I stand by what the jury has to say. The jury system works, and we have to abide by it.”
Not so easy for ex cons, though I suppose he could try washing dishes or stacking shelves if he can get a job doing that. Bit of a come down from being a former Reed Smith tax partner and Tory MP but it might help pay the bills
Timpson's are pretty good for ex-cons.
Yes, burglars are particularly keen on the key-cutting side of the business.
(I jest - Timpsons is a great company for all sorts of reasons).
Not so easy for ex cons, though I suppose he could try washing dishes or stacking shelves if he can get a job doing that. Bit of a come down from being a former Reed Smith tax partner and Tory MP but it might help pay the bills
We're regularly told on here by PB Tories that there are plenty of job vacancies.
There are a number but he has the added hurdle of a criminal conviction before he gets another job
Yes, that will make it much more difficult for him.
He won't be getting UC if he is living as a couple with his MP wife though.
He isn't now, they have separated
Ah, ok. Wikipedia is out of date then:
"On his release from prison in September 2021 Elphicke returned to the couple's marital home."
You can live in the same house as somebody without cohabiting with them.
Comments
Either of Rittenhouse, or those who died at his hands, could have opened fire and have had a strong argument for self defence,
As to this trial, no conscientious jury could do otherwise than acquit him of the three most serious charges.
But it doesn't really matter. Rittenhouse was a dick. But he was also genuinely afraid for his life. He panicked and shot people.
The solution is not to claim he was some kind of Uber Fuhrer, but to try to discourage people from taking guns to riots.
This is Biden saying ‘yes I agree it is bad a white man is acquitted, and I am as angry as you’
It’s like something from South Africa, pre or post apartheid
I think we were the last outlier relying on the Foreign Office's machiavellian categories, and we are now in line with the rest of the West.
Mind you I thought the May government said a lot of irresponsible things about judicial process too.
Midterms are long gone for the Dems.
Perhaps some ultra-woke member of his staff?
Either way, an egregious, foolish and potentially dangerous error
As I noted earlier, he picked a hell of a day to have a colonoscopy.
Still, you culture warriors need to have something to keep stoking the anger, I guess.
edit to explain: you must totally evacuate, which leaves you weak and often dehydrated.
I cannot see it as a big deal. Certainly not even registering on the scale compared with the daily stream of effluent that was sprayed out during the Trump years.
If only we could get Obama back: much better than these clowns.
It’s so ill-advised and inflammatory I wonder if his statement was sabotaged? Either way Biden has almost no chance of being the Dem Nom in 2024
Is the problem, Charles. He's declared himself unsatisfied with the result of a jury trial. That's a very poor idea from the President.
Farage could be on very dodgy ground here.
Compare and contrast to Trump's undermining of the democratic process - now that's what I call undermining.
Do you honestly think there'd have been the same outcome if Rittenhouse had been black?
Biden needs to respect the judicial process and to show respect for that process. That one little clause, “as do I”, is a mistake.
It will be used against him by his enemies too, maybe for a long time.
America keeps doing crazy shit, from left and right, and it unnerves us all. It wouldn’t matter if America was Belgium or Ecuador or Norway. But it is the primary global superpower (for now, if not much longer) and the defender of western freedom. It is all very sad
Of course America's fucked, we all knew that already.
I ask again: what do you honestly think the trial outcome would have been had Rittenhouse been black?
That he is nowhere near as bad as Trump on undermining things is neither here nor there - of course he is a lot better than Trump, that's a base level expectaton. Biden remains a far far far better option for the USA,
There's no need to do a compare and contrast, because it isn't a competition to see which is worse (at least not until the 2024). Like all the debates recently on racism and political standards - one side being worse wouldn't mean the sins of the other escape criticism, even if it was less than the other lot deservedly get.
It's the old 'what if the other side said it' test - would it be felt unworthy of criticism then? I don't think it would have been. And very very few here are Trump fans so that's easy enough to acknowledge.
If I was drafting the statement I'd have left out 'myself included', or say 'which I understand' instead about the anger and concern to make the same point.
All of these trappings of civilisation - elections, the judicial system and the police - only work through the consent and confidence of the people. They can go wrong and when they do politicians have to take measured steps to correct them. But just as Johnson was completely wrong for attacking the judiciary in this country or for attacking the standards commissioner in the last few weeks, Biden is wrong to cast doubt on the validity of a jury trial. He should be better than Trump but he is trying the same game - if in an admittedly rather more measured way.
There is very little middle ground in the US today.
O/T went to an interesting talk this evening by Joseph Kennedy III on democracy and inequality in the US
On your second question - I don't care. That's not what happened and if it does, maybe I'll have a think and answer.
It just wouldn’t happen. I hope. Because we are not so corroded by the Culture Wars, yet.
There is Separation of Powers for a reason. America is perilously close to abandoning this, besieged by the extremists on both sides
Edit: I should clarify that: I acknowledge of course that the trial result is 'legitimate' in a sense that it's gone through due process, I just do not think it was a fair trial.
On my second question you *know* the answer, you don't have to think about it, you just don't want to say it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-59354059
Yougov today had more 2019 Tory voters going to ReformUK than Starmer Labour or the LDs, our politics too is increasingly polarised
Hang on. He's still living with his wife, and she's an MP earning far too much for him to claim UC. ?!?
What was he doing at a men only club with Charles Moore and 30 male journalists. Yuk!
And a Tory Party who have abandoned austerity and Thatcherism in word, if not entirely in deed, for a more social democratic direction.
We have no one to the extreme of either polling 10 % regularly either.
There were many Tory MPs who sought a change in the law relating to self-defence after the Tony Martin murder trial, for example. Though I might have disagreed with that, it is part of the democratic process to discuss possible changes to the law in response to particular verdicts that seem to offend people's sense of natural justice.
There's no reason why some people might argue for changes to the law in the US so that a similar case in the future might reach a different verdict.
He won't be getting UC if he is living as a couple with his MP wife though.
"On his release from prison in September 2021 Elphicke returned to the couple's marital home."
No one on here, for example, argues for roaming the streets with an assault weapon as being fine and dandy.
But it was preceded by this:
"I stand by what the jury has to say. The jury system works, and we have to abide by it.”
(I jest - Timpsons is a great company for all sorts of reasons).