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Grilled Sturgeon – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,990
    Somewhere in ossuary beneath Broadcasting House the Witchell stirs. Its hour is nigh,
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,223
    Sturgeon has an ever increasing number of questions to answer: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeons-book-publisher-probed-25397677

    The questions in that article are why an SNP publisher received over £500k of public money (more than the entire net worth of the company according to their accounts) on a false basis (claiming that they were in Inverness and thus eligible for the grants when they weren't) to publish a book of Nicola's speeches, which no doubt schools and public libraries were told to buy. It really does put the petty corruption of the likes of Owen Paterson and IDS in the shade.

    It's the sort of thing that has the likes of @malcolmg turning up his nose in contempt.

    The description by Stuart Campbell in September was spot on. He said:

    "Because there is no “independence movement” any more, just an independence industry. It provides a very lucrative living for perhaps a couple of hundred people – SNP MPs, MSPs, party staff and apparatchiks, special advisers, quango heads and favoured civil servants lavishly rewarded for their personal loyalty to Nicola Sturgeon despite track records of incompetence, bungling and impropriety that have cost taxpayers a vast fortune."

    At the moment Sturgeon is still expressing concerns about Covid and the need for further lock downs. It's absurd, the number of cases in Scotland is falling almost as fast as the rest of the UK but she needs Covid to drag on because she has promised the referendum once it is out of the way and, right now, that looks seriously foolhardy. More importantly, it is a threat to that all so lucrative industry, one of the very few left in Scotland.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    IshmaelZ said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    How do you sprain your back while resting on doctor's orders?
    I did mine three weeks ago sprawled in my chair...
    I did a Derek Pringle a few years ago, hurt my back writing a letter.
    Your back can go at any time. Doesn't take much. Ditto the knees.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited November 2021

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    Yes, if it rhymes with figure in the woodpile, it's such a cliche that it is possible to lose focus on the figure word altogether.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,963
    edited November 2021
    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Many Tories are furious with their leader over the blowback from the Owen Paterson affair, but not all that anger is of the noble variety. A lot are cross because the prime minister’s shabby scheming has triggered a torrent of stories about moonlighting MPs and the voters, many of whom won’t have been previously conscious of it, don’t like what they see.

    It is telling that MPs sitting for marginals are much less likely to have other jobs compared with those enthroned on large majorities. The most sleaze-intolerant Tory MPs tend to be those who came into parliament recently, often represent previously Labour constituencies and have smallish majorities that are in jeopardy if an appalled public turns on the Tories. The sleaze-tolerant Tory MPs tend to be those who have been comfortably ensconced in parliament for a long time. They sit on fat majorities and that has fed their sense of entitlement.

    Legislators should not be lobbyists. A ban on MPs taking on paid roles as “consultants”, “advisers” and “strategists” was recommended by the committee on standards in public life three years ago and is now under consideration by parliament’s own standards committee. It ought to happen. Whether it does is another matter. That will depend on whether Boris Johnson fears the heat from the media and the disgust of the public more than he does the wrath of the many Conservative MPs who will hate being deprived of their outside earners because, like him, they “can’t possibly live” on an MP’s salary.

    That still isn't as good nor as easy to implement as @Cyclefree 's suggested approach of prior approval..

    But yep, none of the Red Wall / marginal seat MPs have any of the "consultancy" opportunities that only arrive after a few years in Parliament getting to know the lay of the land.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    IshmaelZ said:

    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    How do you sprain your back while resting on doctor's orders?
    Through being very, very old. We all get mystery aches and pains that appear out of nowhere from middle age; she's not far off 100.
    I am very, very old, but my back ailments tend to be correlated with falling over or off things, lifting stuff, etc, not resting
    She could very easily have tweaked it getting out of bed, for all we know.

    Of course, if HM really is running out of steam and these incidents become more frequent and debilitating, but she remains in the land of the living, then there will have to be serious discussion of her stepping down. If the Queen won't formally abdicate then that necessitates a regency.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    How do you sprain your back while resting on doctor's orders?
    It is a mystery.

    I wonder if we will have a Bertrand Dawson de nos jours?
    It's an opportunity for somebody, not all murderers are rewarded with a viscountcy
    If somebody wants to do a documentary/drama series then they can't go wrong with a series on Bertrand Dawes, not only his role in the murder of King George V but his attempt to nobble Stanley Baldwin during the abdication crisis.
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    While I have little time for the royals I do respect HMQ enormously, and maybe having been married for nearly 60 years I can understand just how much she must be missing Philip

    Indeed, with all the troubles in her family and at 95, her resolve to continue doing her duty maybe now takes second place in her priorities

    It will be an event of enormous magnitude when she passes and will be like nothing we have witnessed in our lifetime

    I expect lots of box sets and books will be in demand

    Please, Mr G. People die, they don't pass.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,167

    IshmaelZ said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    How do you sprain your back while resting on doctor's orders?
    I did mine three weeks ago sprawled in my chair...
    I did a Derek Pringle a few years ago, hurt my back writing a letter.
    Was it a q? Tricky buggers are q’s. Can easily cause injuries...
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,487
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    "The loan was used to buy and refurbish his Westminster home" doesn't sound like a property holding company to me.
    The company is a UK company. The "Cayman islands linked" bit is to get the outrage bus rolling.

    If it is enveloped (I doubt it) it would be subject to ATED aiui. There are exemptions, but I am not sure if this is one of them.
  • Options

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,223

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    That's strange, it was the lead story at 8am this morning on the BBC News site that she would be attending the Remembrance Service.
    David Herdson said a few weeks ago that if she didn't attend this then this would be a red flag that something major is up.
    Yep, sadly so. I am struggling to think of any ceremony or event that would be more important to her.
  • Options
    Poor HMQ. She will not be missing this voluntarily - even if she was in pain I expect she would resolutely push herself to go because its Remembrance Day.

    So as @david_herdson said, this truly is a red flag. Sadly.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    She’s dead, isn’t she. Fake photo of her driving, sudden cancellations. London Bridge is down, but they are handling the presentation...
    They reckon The Queen's funeral and mourning period will be a super spreader event so they'll announce it during the summer.

    Or she hates our armed forces by shamefully disrespecting them like this.
    Regardless of your views on the monarchy this is someone’s mother and grandmother you are talking about.

    People should remember that when they slag off Meghan Markle.
    You can criticise someone for their actions (even the Queen).

    But snide comments speculating on someone’s death are distasteful
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    Reports this morning of leaked Government plans to wind down the Covid response in the New Year. Apparently it's the intention to:

    *Axe the legal requirement for those who catch the virus to self-isolate for ten days;
    *End free Covid tests and instead allow private companies to charge for lateral flow and PCR tests;
    *Shut down the national 'Test and Trace' system, which identifies those who may have been exposed to the virus;
    *Focus the fight against Covid on tackling local outbreaks and protecting 'highest risk settings', such as care homes;
    *Scrap £500 payments for those on low incomes who must quarantine.

    In the documents, experts say Covid will remain at 'endemic' levels for years and that mutant strains of the virus will also 'remain a very real risk'. But, crucially, the Government's central planning assumption – described as the 'leaving soon' scenario – predicts there will be 'no winter resurgence' of the virus.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10198985/Operation-Rampdown-Codename-revealed-Government-papers-dismantle-key-Covid-measures-year.html
  • Options

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
    Would a white person who eats curries be called a curry muncher?
    Would it matter whether the Asian person getting called a curry muncher actually eats curries?
    Is the phrase ever used in the positive?

    I think the answers to the above make it very likely the intent is abusive and othering.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    The situation with HM is a concern, whilst we’ve all had difficult Sunday mornings and have experienced strains, I’m not sure about this.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    That's strange, it was the lead story at 8am this morning on the BBC News site that she would be attending the Remembrance Service.
    David Herdson said a few weeks ago that if she didn't attend this then this would be a red flag that something major is up.
    Yep, sadly so. I am struggling to think of any ceremony or event that would be more important to her.
    I just wish they were honest.

    I remember an ex colleague of mine was diagnosed with terminal cancer a few years ago, he told us, we made sure the last six months of his life were great, telling him how wonderful he was and spending time with him.

    He told us it was a great comfort.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,963
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    "The loan was used to buy and refurbish his Westminster home" doesn't sound like a property holding company to me.
    The company is a UK company. The "Cayman islands linked" bit is to get the outrage bus rolling.

    If it is enveloped (I doubt it) it would be subject to ATED aiui. There are exemptions, but I am not sure if this is one of them.
    Not really the relationship seems to be something like UK Company > UK Company > Caymen Company > actually business

    Which to HMRC would be a red flag given the briefings I've had from them regarding identifying tax avoidance.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    I wonder if he is paying the enveloped dwelling tax though. Haven't seen it confirmed.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Roger said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Get a grip Charles! For some people six million quid is a lot of money particularly for home decoration. And how many Hartlipudlians can call on a little sideline in the Caymen Islands to provide the cash?
    That’s what I meant by “optics”.

    Objectively he’s obeyed all the rules (possibly a technical breach but a loan from a company he owns to himself can’t be more than that).

    But it’s a big number and it mentions the Cayman Islands. So I’m sure people who dislike him will attack him energetically
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    She’s dead, isn’t she. Fake photo of her driving, sudden cancellations. London Bridge is down, but they are handling the presentation...
    They reckon The Queen's funeral and mourning period will be a super spreader event so they'll announce it during the summer.

    Or she hates our armed forces by shamefully disrespecting them like this.
    Regardless of your views on the monarchy this is someone’s mother and grandmother you are talking about.

    People should remember that when they slag off Meghan Markle.
    You can criticise someone for their actions (even the Queen).

    But snide comments speculating on someone’s death are distasteful
    Well, some of us are into black comedy and find it actually helps with distressing subjects.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    How do you sprain your back while resting on doctor's orders?
    Through being very, very old. We all get mystery aches and pains that appear out of nowhere from middle age; she's not far off 100.
    I am very, very old, but my back ailments tend to be correlated with falling over or off things, lifting stuff, etc, not resting
    She could very easily have tweaked it getting out of bed, for all we know.

    Of course, if HM really is running out of steam and these incidents become more frequent and debilitating, but she remains in the land of the living, then there will have to be serious discussion of her stepping down. If the Queen won't formally abdicate then that necessitates a regency.
    I disagree, she is 95, we will have King Charles IIIrd in a few years anyway. However no reason she cannot remain in post until then, the journey from Windsor to London with her back issues was the problem today.

    The last time we have a regency, with King George IIIrd when the Prince of Wales was Prince Regent, was not that great
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862
    How Tory . If you believed Douglas4Moray's utter lying drivel about his forgetting to declare £30K of earnings because he just forgot, then if anyon can eplain why he remembered to claim 84p for utilities but “forgot” 30 grand then I will be amazed.



  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,330
    Cyclefree said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ex-barclays-boss-jes-staley-turns-to-top-qc-in-fightback-over-epstein-links-7qwz2qhx2

    Pannick on the case for Staley.

    It also looks as if there are rumblings about the internal investigation which Barclays did when all this first surfaced and its thoroughness.

    What I find odd is this statement -

    "Barclays has made it clear that the investigation by the FCA and the Prudential Regulation Authority did not find that Staley “saw or was aware of any of Mr Epstein’s alleged crimes”.

    How can they say this with a straight face. Staley, it is reported, visited Epstein in prison after he had been convicted in 2009 for procuring a child for prostitution.

    "alleged crimes"? "Not aware"?

    That claim might be plausible before conviction. But afterwards?

    There is also some history between the FCA and Barclays re Staley. The FCA really failed to deal adequately with Staley's misbehaviour over a bank whistleblower, in part because Barclays had already done an internal investigation. It looked as if the FCA were bounced into accepting that investigation and not taking tougher action. A mistake.

    I know nothing about the case, but it's an interesting question how far you remain friends with someone who does something terrible. On the whole, I think yes, because we all recognise that we're complex creatures, and the reason you're friends probably has nothing to do with the act that horrifies you. Obviously there are limits and it deepends on the level of friendship, as well as on the degree of remorse, but on the whole it's the moment they need your friendship most.

    So actually I don't think a bank appointment should hinge on whether the applicant has a friend who's done something nasty.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    How do you sprain your back while resting on doctor's orders?
    I did mine three weeks ago sprawled in my chair...
    I did a Derek Pringle a few years ago, hurt my back writing a letter.
    Your back can go at any time. Doesn't take much. Ditto the knees.
    And sometimes it's the simplest movements which can trigger it - coughing or sneezing, for instance. This has happened to me in the past. It recently happened to my 23 year old who was in such agony he could not move anything at all. Only 3 paramedics, gas and air and copious amounts of pain relief eventually got him upright again.

    If HMQ's back has gone into spasm, she won't be able to get dressed never mind stand for half an hour at a window with the world watching. And it would be cruel to force her to do so.
  • Options
    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    She’s dead, isn’t she. Fake photo of her driving, sudden cancellations. London Bridge is down, but they are handling the presentation...
    They reckon The Queen's funeral and mourning period will be a super spreader event so they'll announce it during the summer.

    Or she hates our armed forces by shamefully disrespecting them like this.
    Regardless of your views on the monarchy this is someone’s mother and grandmother you are talking about.

    People should remember that when they slag off Meghan Markle.
    You can criticise someone for their actions (even the Queen).

    But snide comments speculating on someone’s death are distasteful
    She's our constitutional monarch, her death will have a major impact on all of us.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    I wonder whether the transfer of assets abroad anti-avoidance tax provisions are applicable to this structure?
    It sounds like it receives his share of Somerset Capital’s distributions.

    So he is accruing money offshore on a gross basis and only reporting for UK tax when money is distributed to him. Which is entirely legal. The directors loan is a cute way to get around the tax on distributions which is why the government introduced both the minimum interest rate and the “loan” that you have to make to the government until the director's loan is repaid
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341
    edited November 2021
    pigeon said:

    Reports this morning of leaked Government plans to wind down the Covid response in the New Year. Apparently it's the intention to:

    *Axe the legal requirement for those who catch the virus to self-isolate for ten days;
    *End free Covid tests and instead allow private companies to charge for lateral flow and PCR tests;
    *Shut down the national 'Test and Trace' system, which identifies those who may have been exposed to the virus;
    *Focus the fight against Covid on tackling local outbreaks and protecting 'highest risk settings', such as care homes;
    *Scrap £500 payments for those on low incomes who must quarantine.

    In the documents, experts say Covid will remain at 'endemic' levels for years and that mutant strains of the virus will also 'remain a very real risk'. But, crucially, the Government's central planning assumption – described as the 'leaving soon' scenario – predicts there will be 'no winter resurgence' of the virus.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10198985/Operation-Rampdown-Codename-revealed-Government-papers-dismantle-key-Covid-measures-year.html

    Why leak this now? This cat is almost as poorly as the Queen.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
    A nursery nurse I heard of referred to a BAME child as a 'little monkey' and all hell broke loose. The child had been mildly misbehaving and AIUI the nurse remarked to the mother when she came to collect him that 'he's been a little monkey today'.
    A phrase which I've often heard about a misbehaving child.
    Indeed there are several nurseries locally called "Cheeky Monkeys".
  • Options
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    "The loan was used to buy and refurbish his Westminster home" doesn't sound like a property holding company to me.
    The company is a UK company. The "Cayman islands linked" bit is to get the outrage bus rolling.

    If it is enveloped (I doubt it) it would be subject to ATED aiui. There are exemptions, but I am not sure if this is one of them.
    It doesn't matter whether its UK or not - the Cayman bit is just the frosting on the outrage cake.

    Mogg is the walking talking embodiment of privilege. Johnson's Tories are supposed to be the party of the people, not the "so what that I've
    malcolmg said:

    How Tory . If you believed Douglas4Moray's utter lying drivel about his forgetting to declare £30K of earnings because he just forgot, then if anyon can eplain why he remembered to claim 84p for utilities but “forgot” 30 grand then I will be amazed.



    I can explain it. He's a liar.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862
    Fishing said:

    I don't think a second referendum defeat would kill Scottish nationalism stone dead - I'm sure they'd be back in a year or two (or even a day or two) with a pretext for a third vote. They are experts at conjuring grievances and reasons from nowhere.

    Says a whining unionist , keep playing jingo bells loser, rUK is circling the drain as it passes banana republic status on it's way down the stank.
  • Options
    I think its safe to say London Bridge hasn't fallen because when that does happen it will dominate the news agenda and push off whatever is currently on the agenda . . . which right now is surely in the government's best interest so why engage in a cover-up?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting

    That wasn't quite what I heard her say.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,167
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    She’s dead, isn’t she. Fake photo of her driving, sudden cancellations. London Bridge is down, but they are handling the presentation...
    They reckon The Queen's funeral and mourning period will be a super spreader event so they'll announce it during the summer.

    Or she hates our armed forces by shamefully disrespecting them like this.
    Regardless of your views on the monarchy this is someone’s mother and grandmother you are talking about.

    People should remember that when they slag off Meghan Markle.
    You can criticise someone for their actions (even the Queen).

    But snide comments speculating on someone’s death are distasteful
    Well, some of us are into black comedy and find it actually helps with distressing subjects.
    Quite, and to be honest when the end comes, the nation is going to have a very tough time. Some will be very sad, and want to wallow in it. Some will accept that a loved elderly lady has died and then move on, some will be outraged by the endless media furore and the cancellation of Eastenders.
    The black humour helps. I suspect the trenches of WW1 and the bomb shelters of WW2 were full of black humour. It’s a coping mechanism.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,963

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    She’s dead, isn’t she. Fake photo of her driving, sudden cancellations. London Bridge is down, but they are handling the presentation...
    They reckon The Queen's funeral and mourning period will be a super spreader event so they'll announce it during the summer.

    Or she hates our armed forces by shamefully disrespecting them like this.
    Regardless of your views on the monarchy this is someone’s mother and grandmother you are talking about.

    People should remember that when they slag off Meghan Markle.
    You can criticise someone for their actions (even the Queen).

    But snide comments speculating on someone’s death are distasteful
    She's our constitutional monarch, her death will have a major impact on all of us.
    Mainly because the next monarch will be introducing Carbon Net Zero the day he takes power.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    As long as Boris remains PM he will not grant an indyref2. There are no benefits to him in terms of the risk it poses to the Union, while refusing it means he can continue to hold up the prospect of a PM Starmer propped up by the SNP which on current polls is a real prospect at the next general election. Sturgeon too has no desire to press the issue too hard with most polls still putting No ahead.

    However, if there is a hung parliament in 2023/4 and the SNP do have the balance of power then inevitably they will have to push for an indyref2 and Starmer would have to give it to them to be able to get into No 10 and get any legislation through Parliament

    I somehow doubt it. A Labour minority has everything to gain and nothing to lose from yielding as little as possible to Scottish Nationalism, and thus exposing it as ineffectual. Besides, the English and Welsh still return Labour MPs in large numbers, whereas the Scots don't. Why piss off the former by showering the latter with concessions? It gets Starmer nowhere.

    Let the SNP try Parliamentary wrecking tactics if they want. They can only hurt Labour by helping the Evil Tories. Their secessionist and (allegedly) centre-left tendencies are in fundamental opposition: an actual wet consensus social democrat party would be no more in favour of breaking the British Union than the European one. A proper right-wing nationalist party wouldn't have these problems, of course, but a proper right-wing nationalist party won't win elections in Scotland.

    Starmer isn't stupid. If he gets the opportunity then he'll invite the SNP to wreck itself trying to square the circle of its own contradictions.
    If the Tories win most seats not Labour, which most polls still suggest even if Labour is 1 or 2% ahead on voteshare, then in a hung parliament Starmer would have no choice. Otherwise the Tories would stay in power if the SNP abstain rather than refuse to make Starmer PM.

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    DavidL said:

    Sturgeon has an ever increasing number of questions to answer: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeons-book-publisher-probed-25397677

    The questions in that article are why an SNP publisher received over £500k of public money (more than the entire net worth of the company according to their accounts) on a false basis (claiming that they were in Inverness and thus eligible for the grants when they weren't) to publish a book of Nicola's speeches, which no doubt schools and public libraries were told to buy. It really does put the petty corruption of the likes of Owen Paterson and IDS in the shade.

    It's the sort of thing that has the likes of @malcolmg turning up his nose in contempt.

    The description by Stuart Campbell in September was spot on. He said:

    "Because there is no “independence movement” any more, just an independence industry. It provides a very lucrative living for perhaps a couple of hundred people – SNP MPs, MSPs, party staff and apparatchiks, special advisers, quango heads and favoured civil servants lavishly rewarded for their personal loyalty to Nicola Sturgeon despite track records of incompetence, bungling and impropriety that have cost taxpayers a vast fortune."

    At the moment Sturgeon is still expressing concerns about Covid and the need for further lock downs. It's absurd, the number of cases in Scotland is falling almost as fast as the rest of the UK but she needs Covid to drag on because she has promised the referendum once it is out of the way and, right now, that looks seriously foolhardy. More importantly, it is a threat to that all so lucrative industry, one of the very few left in Scotland.

    You have the publisher thing backwards, I think. The claim is they weren't in Inverness and so eligible for a non-Inverness Highlands grant. When you search for offices for that publisher, you find that they DO have an office outside Inverness, in Muir of Ord if memory serves.
    Also, the "no doubt" part of "no doubt schools and public libraries were told to buy" makes me doubt what you're saying. Have you seen something alleging that, or is it imagined?
  • Options

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
    A nursery nurse I heard of referred to a BAME child as a 'little monkey' and all hell broke loose. The child had been mildly misbehaving and AIUI the nurse remarked to the mother when she came to collect him that 'he's been a little monkey today'.
    A phrase which I've often heard about a misbehaving child.
    Indeed there are several nurseries locally called "Cheeky Monkeys".
    Using the tests I suggested below:

    Would a white child be called a little monkey?
    Is the phrase ever used in the positive?

    I think here there is a massive difference between curry muncher and little monkey, as yes, a white child might be called a little monkey and it is mostly used affectionately.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I think its safe to say London Bridge hasn't fallen because when that does happen it will dominate the news agenda and push off whatever is currently on the agenda . . . which right now is surely in the government's best interest so why engage in a cover-up?

    I don't think a cover-up of more than hours is seriously on the cards.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862

    She gave Greta Thunberg an elbow bump, John Kerry a tartan tie and US congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez a can of Irn-Bru — and she gave herself the gift of massive publicity around the globe. Look this way, Nicola Sturgeon, whose daily snaps with celebrities and VIPs at Cop26 have earned her the nickname “Elsie McSelfie”.

    For months before 120 world leaders came to Glasgow, Boris Johnson’s ministers fretted about what to do about the SNP leader during the climate summit, worried that the nationalists might try to “hijack” the event to further their campaign for Scottish independence. As they ruminate over coverage of the fortnight-long negotiations, some will reflect this weekend that they were right.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-in-sharp-focus-for-fortnight-of-selfies-at-cop26-d6ftcpp7t

    Boris did well, one photo that everyone laughed at , flew home in a private jet , snuck back in a train unseen and snuck back to London to preside over the sleaze pit. In between him and his lickspittle North had their horoscopes on NI read by the USA. Who is next in the Tory Sleaze bingo.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Get a grip Charles! For some people six million quid is a lot of money particularly for home decoration. And how many Hartlipudlians can call on a little sideline in the Caymen Islands to provide the cash?
    That’s what I meant by “optics”.

    Objectively he’s obeyed all the rules (possibly a technical breach but a loan from a company he owns to himself can’t be more than that).

    But it’s a big number and it mentions the Cayman Islands. So I’m sure people who dislike him will attack him energetically
    It is possible to be wrong and still be within the law. The ultra rich bending the rules and manipulating a system they created is not ok. It’s doubly not ok when they impose strict regimes on people on the breadline.

    It’s more than optics.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132

    pigeon said:

    Reports this morning of leaked Government plans to wind down the Covid response in the New Year. Apparently it's the intention to:

    *Axe the legal requirement for those who catch the virus to self-isolate for ten days;
    *End free Covid tests and instead allow private companies to charge for lateral flow and PCR tests;
    *Shut down the national 'Test and Trace' system, which identifies those who may have been exposed to the virus;
    *Focus the fight against Covid on tackling local outbreaks and protecting 'highest risk settings', such as care homes;
    *Scrap £500 payments for those on low incomes who must quarantine.

    In the documents, experts say Covid will remain at 'endemic' levels for years and that mutant strains of the virus will also 'remain a very real risk'. But, crucially, the Government's central planning assumption – described as the 'leaving soon' scenario – predicts there will be 'no winter resurgence' of the virus.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10198985/Operation-Rampdown-Codename-revealed-Government-papers-dismantle-key-Covid-measures-year.html

    Why leak this now?
    Depends who leaked it and why.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,915
    I expect the Queen does not want her absence to overshadow the ceremony, hence the back excuse.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,261
    IshmaelZ said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    How do you sprain your back while resting on doctor's orders?
    Spending all day sitting or lying down is about the worst thing you can do for your back!
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,963

    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting

    That second bit I can agree with - it would result in railways getting the appropriate support...
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    I wonder whether the transfer of assets abroad anti-avoidance tax provisions are applicable to this structure?
    It sounds like it receives his share of Somerset Capital’s distributions.

    So he is accruing money offshore on a gross basis and only reporting for UK tax when money is distributed to him. Which is entirely legal. The directors loan is a cute way to get around the tax on distributions which is why the government introduced both the minimum interest rate and the “loan” that you have to make to the government until the director's loan is repaid
    The issue with all of this is the narrative. Another Tory toff earning vast sums offshore. No wonder the red wall Tory MPs are going up the wall.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    As long as Boris remains PM he will not grant an indyref2. There are no benefits to him in terms of the risk it poses to the Union, while refusing it means he can continue to hold up the prospect of a PM Starmer propped up by the SNP which on current polls is a real prospect at the next general election. Sturgeon too has no desire to press the issue too hard with most polls still putting No ahead.

    However, if there is a hung parliament in 2023/4 and the SNP do have the balance of power then inevitably they will have to push for an indyref2 and Starmer would have to give it to them to be able to get into No 10 and get any legislation through Parliament

    I somehow doubt it. A Labour minority has everything to gain and nothing to lose from yielding as little as possible to Scottish Nationalism, and thus exposing it as ineffectual. Besides, the English and Welsh still return Labour MPs in large numbers, whereas the Scots don't. Why piss off the former by showering the latter with concessions? It gets Starmer nowhere.

    Let the SNP try Parliamentary wrecking tactics if they want. They can only hurt Labour by helping the Evil Tories. Their secessionist and (allegedly) centre-left tendencies are in fundamental opposition: an actual wet consensus social democrat party would be no more in favour of breaking the British Union than the European one. A proper right-wing nationalist party wouldn't have these problems, of course, but a proper right-wing nationalist party won't win elections in Scotland.

    Starmer isn't stupid. If he gets the opportunity then he'll invite the SNP to wreck itself trying to square the circle of its own contradictions.
    If the Tories win most seats not Labour, which most polls still suggest even if Labour is 1 or 2% ahead on voteshare, then in a hung parliament Starmer would have no choice. Otherwise the Tories would stay in power if the SNP abstain rather than refuse to make Starmer PM.

    I think those circumstances the Tories would be in office, but not in power.
  • Options

    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting

    That wasn't quite what I heard her say.
    In what way
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    How do you sprain your back while resting on doctor's orders?
    Through being very, very old. We all get mystery aches and pains that appear out of nowhere from middle age; she's not far off 100.
    I am very, very old, but my back ailments tend to be correlated with falling over or off things, lifting stuff, etc, not resting
    She could very easily have tweaked it getting out of bed, for all we know.

    Of course, if HM really is running out of steam and these incidents become more frequent and debilitating, but she remains in the land of the living, then there will have to be serious discussion of her stepping down. If the Queen won't formally abdicate then that necessitates a regency.
    I disagree, she is 95, we will have King Charles IIIrd in a few years anyway. However no reason she cannot remain in post until then, the journey from Windsor to London with her back issues was the problem today.

    The last time we have a regency, with King George IIIrd when the Prince of Wales was Prince Regent, was not that great
    That was two centuries ago, and Charles doesn't particularly remind one of Prinny.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    do the full All-Amercian show with reverse grids, a $1m prize for the winning driver that’s paraded around in a briefcase, make it like a 20-20 cricket match on the rest day of a Test match.

    NASCAR uses 1-20/21-40 reverse grids (and occasionally by drawing lots) which works well enough.

    IndyCar (which is obviously what F1 wants to be when it grows up as Indy is a money making machine) does a reverse grid by team points on ovals which is interesting and some insanely complicated system nobody understands for road courses which is less interesting. Indy 500 has its own four lap system.
    That would make it interesting to more than a few geeks though
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,167

    pigeon said:

    Reports this morning of leaked Government plans to wind down the Covid response in the New Year. Apparently it's the intention to:

    *Axe the legal requirement for those who catch the virus to self-isolate for ten days;
    *End free Covid tests and instead allow private companies to charge for lateral flow and PCR tests;
    *Shut down the national 'Test and Trace' system, which identifies those who may have been exposed to the virus;
    *Focus the fight against Covid on tackling local outbreaks and protecting 'highest risk settings', such as care homes;
    *Scrap £500 payments for those on low incomes who must quarantine.

    In the documents, experts say Covid will remain at 'endemic' levels for years and that mutant strains of the virus will also 'remain a very real risk'. But, crucially, the Government's central planning assumption – described as the 'leaving soon' scenario – predicts there will be 'no winter resurgence' of the virus.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10198985/Operation-Rampdown-Codename-revealed-Government-papers-dismantle-key-Covid-measures-year.html

    Why leak this now?
    Depends who leaked it. If it’s government approved, then it’s sending a more confident message about the progress of Covid this winter. If it’s not, then it might be someone who thinks this is a bad idea, and is trying to stir the sh1t. Someone from iSAGE say, who maybe also sits in on actual government meetings, not just the pretendy one...
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
    A nursery nurse I heard of referred to a BAME child as a 'little monkey' and all hell broke loose. The child had been mildly misbehaving and AIUI the nurse remarked to the mother when she came to collect him that 'he's been a little monkey today'.
    A phrase which I've often heard about a misbehaving child.
    Indeed there are several nurseries locally called "Cheeky Monkeys".
    I'll bet you wouldn't find a nursery called 'Cheeky Monkeys' in, for example, Brixton.
  • Options

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
    A nursery nurse I heard of referred to a BAME child as a 'little monkey' and all hell broke loose. The child had been mildly misbehaving and AIUI the nurse remarked to the mother when she came to collect him that 'he's been a little monkey today'.
    A phrase which I've often heard about a misbehaving child.
    Indeed there are several nurseries locally called "Cheeky Monkeys".
    A few years ago when my youngest was born my friend Rob (friend from uni, housemate for two years after uni, and best man at my wedding) came to visit me and brought along his new girlfriend who I hadn't met before.

    Rob was holding my youngest when my youngest burped and/or farted and Rob said 'Oh you cheeky monkey' to which point his girlfriend said 'You can't say that, that's racist'

    And I was like no it isn't and the fact I had known Rob for nearly two decades I knew he didn't have a bigoted bone in his body.

    Context matters.
  • Options
    Mr. Eagles, I'm just recovering from my latest bout of backache.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862
    algarkirk said:

    Perhaps Salmond has toxified the field for Ref2 fundamentalists. If you exclude UDI and semi legal referendums (I agree they won't happen) all the SNP has left is winning elections and making noise. They are good at these.

    As Sturgeon would be nuts to actually have a Ref2 she would lose, the status quo suits everyone. Boris is there to blame, the SNP have all the jobs in Holyrood and Westminster, they still have all the English cash, and don't have to provide non-Unicorn answers to hard questions.

    I think Nicola will last long time yet, but keep an eye on Kate Forbes.

    Another absolute arsehole talking shit turns up, get an education loser.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    edited November 2021

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
    A nursery nurse I heard of referred to a BAME child as a 'little monkey' and all hell broke loose. The child had been mildly misbehaving and AIUI the nurse remarked to the mother when she came to collect him that 'he's been a little monkey today'.
    A phrase which I've often heard about a misbehaving child.
    Indeed there are several nurseries locally called "Cheeky Monkeys".
    Using the tests I suggested below:

    Would a white child be called a little monkey?
    Is the phrase ever used in the positive?

    I think here there is a massive difference between curry muncher and little monkey, as yes, a white child might be called a little monkey and it is mostly used affectionately.
    Yes. Cheeky little monkey is a stock phrase and would be used affectionately. It's not racist in the slightest. 100% right.
    "Curry muncher" sounds racist to me.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,167

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    "The loan was used to buy and refurbish his Westminster home" doesn't sound like a property holding company to me.
    The company is a UK company. The "Cayman islands linked" bit is to get the outrage bus rolling.

    If it is enveloped (I doubt it) it would be subject to ATED aiui. There are exemptions, but I am not sure if this is one of them.
    It doesn't matter whether its UK or not - the Cayman bit is just the frosting on the outrage cake.

    Mogg is the walking talking embodiment of privilege. Johnson's Tories are supposed to be the party of the people, not the "so what that I've
    malcolmg said:

    How Tory . If you believed Douglas4Moray's utter lying drivel about his forgetting to declare £30K of earnings because he just forgot, then if anyon can eplain why he remembered to claim 84p for utilities but “forgot” 30 grand then I will be amazed.



    I can explain it. He's a liar.
    Did he claim it himself, or is this yet another admin person making a wrong call?
  • Options
    David on the money again.


  • Options
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    As long as Boris remains PM he will not grant an indyref2. There are no benefits to him in terms of the risk it poses to the Union, while refusing it means he can continue to hold up the prospect of a PM Starmer propped up by the SNP which on current polls is a real prospect at the next general election. Sturgeon too has no desire to press the issue too hard with most polls still putting No ahead.

    However, if there is a hung parliament in 2023/4 and the SNP do have the balance of power then inevitably they will have to push for an indyref2 and Starmer would have to give it to them to be able to get into No 10 and get any legislation through Parliament

    I somehow doubt it. A Labour minority has everything to gain and nothing to lose from yielding as little as possible to Scottish Nationalism, and thus exposing it as ineffectual. Besides, the English and Welsh still return Labour MPs in large numbers, whereas the Scots don't. Why piss off the former by showering the latter with concessions? It gets Starmer nowhere.

    Let the SNP try Parliamentary wrecking tactics if they want. They can only hurt Labour by helping the Evil Tories. Their secessionist and (allegedly) centre-left tendencies are in fundamental opposition: an actual wet consensus social democrat party would be no more in favour of breaking the British Union than the European one. A proper right-wing nationalist party wouldn't have these problems, of course, but a proper right-wing nationalist party won't win elections in Scotland.

    Starmer isn't stupid. If he gets the opportunity then he'll invite the SNP to wreck itself trying to square the circle of its own contradictions.
    Starmer will likely need the lib dems as well as the SNP to form a gvt anyway and I can't see the Lib Dems caving into SNP demands.

    That said I still wonder if Sturgeon is still being underestimated in terms of extending her tenure (even if no 2nd ref happens) as (unlike Salmond) she derives most of her power from younger people and centrist/centre left pro EU people who seem relaxed with the can being continually kicked down the road (even if older independence activists are more impatient). She has also seen off most of her internal enemies like Joanna Cherry.


  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202

    Cyclefree said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ex-barclays-boss-jes-staley-turns-to-top-qc-in-fightback-over-epstein-links-7qwz2qhx2

    Pannick on the case for Staley.

    It also looks as if there are rumblings about the internal investigation which Barclays did when all this first surfaced and its thoroughness.

    What I find odd is this statement -

    "Barclays has made it clear that the investigation by the FCA and the Prudential Regulation Authority did not find that Staley “saw or was aware of any of Mr Epstein’s alleged crimes”.

    How can they say this with a straight face. Staley, it is reported, visited Epstein in prison after he had been convicted in 2009 for procuring a child for prostitution.

    "alleged crimes"? "Not aware"?

    That claim might be plausible before conviction. But afterwards?

    There is also some history between the FCA and Barclays re Staley. The FCA really failed to deal adequately with Staley's misbehaviour over a bank whistleblower, in part because Barclays had already done an internal investigation. It looked as if the FCA were bounced into accepting that investigation and not taking tougher action. A mistake.

    I know nothing about the case, but it's an interesting question how far you remain friends with someone who does something terrible. On the whole, I think yes, because we all recognise that we're complex creatures, and the reason you're friends probably has nothing to do with the act that horrifies you. Obviously there are limits and it deepends on the level of friendship, as well as on the degree of remorse, but on the whole it's the moment they need your friendship most.

    So actually I don't think a bank appointment should hinge on whether the applicant has a friend who's done something nasty.
    That is all fine. But Staley and Barclays have been at pains throughout to say that Staley and Epstein were not friends, that this was a professional relationship only. So the issue of standing by your friends does not really arise.

    (I note in passing that that the standing by your friends is the argument Andrew has used.)

    And if Staley lied about that or was economical with the actualite - whether to the Board or directly/indirectly to the FCA - that is very relevant to whether he is fit and proper.

    The other point is this: if a client is in the procuring girls for prostitution business, it raises an issue about the money he is depositing with you. That money may well be the proceeds of crime and no professional banker with any care for his reputation or that of the bank where he works should have anything to do with it. At a minimum serious questions should have been asked. Were they?
  • Options

    pigeon said:

    Reports this morning of leaked Government plans to wind down the Covid response in the New Year. Apparently it's the intention to:

    *Axe the legal requirement for those who catch the virus to self-isolate for ten days;
    *End free Covid tests and instead allow private companies to charge for lateral flow and PCR tests;
    *Shut down the national 'Test and Trace' system, which identifies those who may have been exposed to the virus;
    *Focus the fight against Covid on tackling local outbreaks and protecting 'highest risk settings', such as care homes;
    *Scrap £500 payments for those on low incomes who must quarantine.

    In the documents, experts say Covid will remain at 'endemic' levels for years and that mutant strains of the virus will also 'remain a very real risk'. But, crucially, the Government's central planning assumption – described as the 'leaving soon' scenario – predicts there will be 'no winter resurgence' of the virus.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10198985/Operation-Rampdown-Codename-revealed-Government-papers-dismantle-key-Covid-measures-year.html

    Why leak this now?
    Depends who leaked it. If it’s government approved, then it’s sending a more confident message about the progress of Covid this winter. If it’s not, then it might be someone who thinks this is a bad idea, and is trying to stir the sh1t. Someone from iSAGE say, who maybe also sits in on actual government meetings, not just the pretendy one...
    It comes from inside HMG. Cynics might wonder if the report was leaked to distract attention from the run of bad news for the government in the last week or so.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    I wonder if he is paying the enveloped dwelling tax though. Haven't seen it confirmed.
    It wouldn’t be reported though. My suggestion was based on a line in the mail saying the company owned “property and other investments” as well as his partnership interest in Somerset Capital.

    But it looks more like it’s a general investment company. Takes his income from Somerset Capital, invests on a gross basis and remits to the UK when needed. Company owned by a Uk company.

    Assuming it’s structured like that it’s totally legal.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    I wonder whether the transfer of assets abroad anti-avoidance tax provisions are applicable to this structure?
    It sounds like it receives his share of Somerset Capital’s distributions.

    So he is accruing money offshore on a gross basis and only reporting for UK tax when money is distributed to him. Which is entirely legal. The directors loan is a cute way to get around the tax on distributions which is why the government introduced both the minimum interest rate and the “loan” that you have to make to the government until the director's loan is repaid
    The issue with all of this is the narrative. Another Tory toff earning vast sums offshore. No wonder the red wall Tory MPs are going up the wall.
    JRM is, I suspect, a particular turn-off to working class Tory voters. He oozes entitlement and privilege, and has a particularly sneering tone when he talks/patronises.

    He also comes across as the living embodiment of 'the rules apply to the little people, not to me'. I think dirt on him would damage the Tories, if it sticks.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    edited November 2021

    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting

    That wasn't quite what I heard her say.
    In what way
    See Mr Eek's post upthread; she pointed out that plane was cheaper than train and made a brief case for a rethink on train and plane prices.

    She did prevaricate a bit about Starmer's once upon a time second job, though.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,376
    edited November 2021
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    She’s dead, isn’t she. Fake photo of her driving, sudden cancellations. London Bridge is down, but they are handling the presentation...
    They reckon The Queen's funeral and mourning period will be a super spreader event so they'll announce it during the summer.

    Or she hates our armed forces by shamefully disrespecting them like this.
    Regardless of your views on the monarchy this is someone’s mother and grandmother you are talking about.

    People should remember that when they slag off Meghan Markle.
    You can criticise someone for their actions (even the Queen).

    But snide comments speculating on someone’s death are distasteful
    She's our constitutional monarch, her death will have a major impact on all of us.
    Mainly because the next monarch will be introducing Carbon Net Zero the day he takes power.
    I feel sorry for my friends in the legal profession, particularly those at HMCTS.

    They'll have to rename so many things, the QBD becomes the KBD etc, thoughts and prayers for all those QCs who will have to update websites and other details to KC.

    The legal system could seize up.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    How Tory . If you believed Douglas4Moray's utter lying drivel about his forgetting to declare £30K of earnings because he just forgot, then if anyon can eplain why he remembered to claim 84p for utilities but “forgot” 30 grand then I will be amazed.



    Probably his office manager claims and this is just a reporting breakout from a bigger claim.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Everything is technical, within the rules etc for you silver spoon Eton halfwits. A few brain cells would allow you lot to see the public just see you lot as lying cheating baddies.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    Snowflakes everywhere nowadays.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    As long as Boris remains PM he will not grant an indyref2. There are no benefits to him in terms of the risk it poses to the Union, while refusing it means he can continue to hold up the prospect of a PM Starmer propped up by the SNP which on current polls is a real prospect at the next general election. Sturgeon too has no desire to press the issue too hard with most polls still putting No ahead.

    However, if there is a hung parliament in 2023/4 and the SNP do have the balance of power then inevitably they will have to push for an indyref2 and Starmer would have to give it to them to be able to get into No 10 and get any legislation through Parliament

    I somehow doubt it. A Labour minority has everything to gain and nothing to lose from yielding as little as possible to Scottish Nationalism, and thus exposing it as ineffectual. Besides, the English and Welsh still return Labour MPs in large numbers, whereas the Scots don't. Why piss off the former by showering the latter with concessions? It gets Starmer nowhere.

    Let the SNP try Parliamentary wrecking tactics if they want. They can only hurt Labour by helping the Evil Tories. Their secessionist and (allegedly) centre-left tendencies are in fundamental opposition: an actual wet consensus social democrat party would be no more in favour of breaking the British Union than the European one. A proper right-wing nationalist party wouldn't have these problems, of course, but a proper right-wing nationalist party won't win elections in Scotland.

    Starmer isn't stupid. If he gets the opportunity then he'll invite the SNP to wreck itself trying to square the circle of its own contradictions.
    If the Tories win most seats not Labour, which most polls still suggest even if Labour is 1 or 2% ahead on voteshare, then in a hung parliament Starmer would have no choice. Otherwise the Tories would stay in power if the SNP abstain rather than refuse to make Starmer PM.
    Well quite. As I just said, if the SNP won't help put Labour into office under such circumstances then they're helping the Conservatives by default. So let them. If Starmer's choice is to leave a helpless Tory minority flopping about until it's forced to call another election, or be held to ransom by the SNP, then the choice is obvious. It'd be the perfect opportunity to neutralise the "Labour leader as Sturgeon's puppet" meme.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189

    David on the money again.


    It’s worth remembering that she had back problems in 2006-07. It prevented her from officially opening the best football stadium in the world. So instead she had Arsenal round for tea...

    https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/news-photo/queen-elizabeth-ii-meets-arsenal-football-team-members-kolo-news-photo/117912905
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    I wonder whether the transfer of assets abroad anti-avoidance tax provisions are applicable to this structure?
    It sounds like it receives his share of Somerset Capital’s distributions.

    So he is accruing money offshore on a gross basis and only reporting for UK tax when money is distributed to him. Which is entirely legal. The directors loan is a cute way to get around the tax on distributions which is why the government introduced both the minimum interest rate and the “loan” that you have to make to the government until the director's loan is repaid
    The issue with all of this is the narrative. Another Tory toff earning vast sums offshore. No wonder the red wall Tory MPs are going up the wall.
    JRM is, I suspect, a particular turn-off to working class Tory voters. He oozes entitlement and privilege, and has a particularly sneering tone when he talks/patronises.

    He also comes across as the living embodiment of 'the rules apply to the little people, not to me'. I think dirt on him would damage the Tories, if it sticks.
    The politics are far more complex, there’s a tacit political alliance between the ultra rich taking the piss and those who aspire to do the same (although do not realise they will never be welcomed in the club). It’s one of the founding principles of the Tory party.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
    A nursery nurse I heard of referred to a BAME child as a 'little monkey' and all hell broke loose. The child had been mildly misbehaving and AIUI the nurse remarked to the mother when she came to collect him that 'he's been a little monkey today'.
    A phrase which I've often heard about a misbehaving child.
    Indeed there are several nurseries locally called "Cheeky Monkeys".
    I'll bet you wouldn't find a nursery called 'Cheeky Monkeys' in, for example, Brixton.
    Dear oh dear. I went and looked. Nearest I could find was Lewisham, but I'm not familiar with London post-codes. There are several with that name in N London, though!
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862
    Pulpstar said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    That's strange, it was the lead story at 8am this morning on the BBC News site that she would be attending the Remembrance Service.
    David Herdson said a few weeks ago that if she didn't attend this then this would be a red flag that something major is up.
    You're such a cynic :o
    Mystic Meg right enough
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    She’s dead, isn’t she. Fake photo of her driving, sudden cancellations. London Bridge is down, but they are handling the presentation...
    They reckon The Queen's funeral and mourning period will be a super spreader event so they'll announce it during the summer.

    Or she hates our armed forces by shamefully disrespecting them like this.
    Regardless of your views on the monarchy this is someone’s mother and grandmother you are talking about.

    People should remember that when they slag off Meghan Markle.
    You can criticise someone for their actions (even the Queen).

    But snide comments speculating on someone’s death are distasteful
    Well, some of us are into black comedy and find it actually helps with distressing subjects.
    Quite, and to be honest when the end comes, the nation is going to have a very tough time. Some will be very sad, and want to wallow in it. Some will accept that a loved elderly lady has died and then move on, some will be outraged by the endless media furore and the cancellation of Eastenders.
    The black humour helps. I suspect the trenches of WW1 and the bomb shelters of WW2 were full of black humour. It’s a coping mechanism.
    I imagine I will have all three reactions, and some black humour. I don't believe in rolling news when there is no news. When we get to the point where the Queen is still dead, Charles III is still King, and nothing more is happening, they should go back to reporting Tory sleaze, climate change and racism in cricket.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202
    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Get a grip Charles! For some people six million quid is a lot of money particularly for home decoration. And how many Hartlipudlians can call on a little sideline in the Caymen Islands to provide the cash?
    That’s what I meant by “optics”.

    Objectively he’s obeyed all the rules (possibly a technical breach but a loan from a company he owns to himself can’t be more than that).

    But it’s a big number and it mentions the Cayman Islands. So I’m sure people who dislike him will attack him energetically
    It is possible to be wrong and still be within the law. The ultra rich bending the rules and manipulating a system they created is not ok. It’s doubly not ok when they impose strict regimes on people on the breadline.

    It’s more than optics.
    Tory MPs are only asking themselves if they can do something within the rules. Not whether they should.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862

    While I have little time for the royals I do respect HMQ enormously, and maybe having been married for nearly 60 years I can understand just how much she must be missing Philip

    Indeed, with all the troubles in her family and at 95, her resolve to continue doing her duty maybe now takes second place in her priorities

    It will be an event of enormous magnitude when she passes and will be like nothing we have witnessed in our lifetime

    I expect lots of box sets and books will be in demand

    For weirdo's perhaps
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    Snowflakes everywhere nowadays.
    I blame the parents....and don't get me onto how they protect their state pension triple lock at the expense of the grandkids.....
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Cyclefree said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ex-barclays-boss-jes-staley-turns-to-top-qc-in-fightback-over-epstein-links-7qwz2qhx2

    Pannick on the case for Staley.

    It also looks as if there are rumblings about the internal investigation which Barclays did when all this first surfaced and its thoroughness.

    What I find odd is this statement -

    "Barclays has made it clear that the investigation by the FCA and the Prudential Regulation Authority did not find that Staley “saw or was aware of any of Mr Epstein’s alleged crimes”.

    How can they say this with a straight face. Staley, it is reported, visited Epstein in prison after he had been convicted in 2009 for procuring a child for prostitution.

    "alleged crimes"? "Not aware"?

    That claim might be plausible before conviction. But afterwards?

    There is also some history between the FCA and Barclays re Staley. The FCA really failed to deal adequately with Staley's misbehaviour over a bank whistleblower, in part because Barclays had already done an internal investigation. It looked as if the FCA were bounced into accepting that investigation and not taking tougher action. A mistake.

    I know nothing about the case, but it's an interesting question how far you remain friends with someone who does something terrible. On the whole, I think yes, because we all recognise that we're complex creatures, and the reason you're friends probably has nothing to do with the act that horrifies you. Obviously there are limits and it deepends on the level of friendship, as well as on the degree of remorse, but on the whole it's the moment they need your friendship most.

    So actually I don't think a bank appointment should hinge on whether the applicant has a friend who's done something nasty.
    It appears he didn’t disclose the extent of his relationship to the regulators. They take a very dim view of that
  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    I wonder whether the transfer of assets abroad anti-avoidance tax provisions are applicable to this structure?
    It sounds like it receives his share of Somerset Capital’s distributions.

    So he is accruing money offshore on a gross basis and only reporting for UK tax when money is distributed to him. Which is entirely legal. The directors loan is a cute way to get around the tax on distributions which is why the government introduced both the minimum interest rate and the “loan” that you have to make to the government until the director's loan is repaid
    The issue with all of this is the narrative. Another Tory toff earning vast sums offshore. No wonder the red wall Tory MPs are going up the wall.
    If the anti avoidance rules apply, the distributions up to the cayman island company would be directly taxable on JRM even if they are retained within that company.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862

    Talking about corrupt behaviour, how do we vote out the Prince of Wales?

    Prince Charles’s closest adviser told a Saudi donor he would be very happy to help him secure an OBE while soliciting a £10 million donation from him, according to leaked letters that place fresh pressure on Scotland Yard to investigate the “cash-for-honours” scandal.

    Michael Fawcett also wrote that the prince would back Mahfouz bin Mahfouz’s application for British citizenship.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-told-to-act-as-new-letters-confirm-charles-aide-michael-fawcett-sought-obe-for-saudi-donor-p86mttwlm

    If only it was possible
  • Options

    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting

    That wasn't quite what I heard her say.
    In what way
    See Mr Eek's post upthread; she pointed out that plane was cheaper than train and made a brief case for a rethink on train and plane prices.

    She did prevaricate a bit about Starmer's once upon a time second job, though.
    Marr asked if she would ban lawyers and she did say yes

    I agree about her comments about making train travel cheaper
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,963

    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting

    That wasn't quite what I heard her say.
    In what way
    See Mr Eek's post upthread; she pointed out that plane was cheaper than train and made a brief case for a rethink on train and plane prices.

    She did prevaricate a bit Starmer's once upon a time second job, though.
    Round here - all the MPs now fly from Teesside to Heathrow because it's cheaper and takes about the same time (you have to remember you can do entrance to plane in 20 minutes without much hassle).

    When LNER were trying to reduce the number of trains stopping at Darlington, the thing that stopped them was when the MPs started to discuss getting Lumo (the new cheap First Group service from Edinburgh / Newcastle to London) to fill in the gaps created,

  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202

    David on the money again.


    Disagree. A bad back can happen on its own without there being anything else wrong and can, as I can attest, render you utterly incapable.

    There may be something else going on or it may be an excuse. She is 95 after all. But it doesn't automatically follow as he is assuming.

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2021
    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Get a grip Charles! For some people six million quid is a lot of money particularly for home decoration. And how many Hartlipudlians can call on a little sideline in the Caymen Islands to provide the cash?
    That’s what I meant by “optics”.

    Objectively he’s obeyed all the rules (possibly a technical breach but a loan from a company he owns to himself can’t be more than that).

    But it’s a big number and it mentions the Cayman Islands. So I’m sure people who dislike him will attack him energetically
    It is possible to be wrong and still be within the law. The ultra rich bending the rules and manipulating a system they created is not ok. It’s doubly not ok when they impose strict regimes on people on the breadline.

    It’s more than optics.
    Please, do set out what is wrong about it?

    Directors loans vs. dividend payments is a common choice in this situation (which obviously only relates to a comparatively small number of people)
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202

    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting

    That wasn't quite what I heard her say.
    In what way
    See Mr Eek's post upthread; she pointed out that plane was cheaper than train and made a brief case for a rethink on train and plane prices.

    She did prevaricate a bit about Starmer's once upon a time second job, though.
    Did Marr ask about the work the Labour Shadow A-G does outside his Parliamentary duties?

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,354

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    She’s dead, isn’t she. Fake photo of her driving, sudden cancellations. London Bridge is down, but they are handling the presentation...
    They reckon The Queen's funeral and mourning period will be a super spreader event so they'll announce it during the summer.

    Or she hates our armed forces by shamefully disrespecting them like this.
    Regardless of your views on the monarchy this is someone’s mother and grandmother you are talking about.

    People should remember that when they slag off Meghan Markle.
    You can criticise someone for their actions (even the Queen).

    But snide comments speculating on someone’s death are distasteful
    She's our constitutional monarch, her death will have a major impact on all of us.
    Mainly because the next monarch will be introducing Carbon Net Zero the day he takes power.
    I feel sorry for my friends in the legal profession, particularly those at HMCTS.

    They'll have to rename so many things, the QBD becomes the KBD etc, thoughts and prayers for all those QCs who will have to update websites and other details to KC.

    The legal system could seize up.
    Good thing so many QCs are in parliament then - they can claim the cost of the change on expenses.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Farooq said:

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
    A nursery nurse I heard of referred to a BAME child as a 'little monkey' and all hell broke loose. The child had been mildly misbehaving and AIUI the nurse remarked to the mother when she came to collect him that 'he's been a little monkey today'.
    A phrase which I've often heard about a misbehaving child.
    Indeed there are several nurseries locally called "Cheeky Monkeys".
    Using the tests I suggested below:

    Would a white child be called a little monkey?
    Is the phrase ever used in the positive?

    I think here there is a massive difference between curry muncher and little monkey, as yes, a white child might be called a little monkey and it is mostly used affectionately.
    Yes. Cheeky little monkey is a stock phrase and would be used affectionately. It's not racist in the slightest. 100% right.
    "Curry muncher" sounds racist to me.
    Point taken and noted. It is at lower end of the scale, though. But I'm not defending it.
    The interesting thing that at the time it was alleged to have been sued the 'complainant wasn't the only non-white in the Essex side. Nasser Hussein was there as well.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    I wonder whether the transfer of assets abroad anti-avoidance tax provisions are applicable to this structure?
    It sounds like it receives his share of Somerset Capital’s distributions.

    So he is accruing money offshore on a gross basis and only reporting for UK tax when money is distributed to him. Which is entirely legal. The directors loan is a cute way to get around the tax on distributions which is why the government introduced both the minimum interest rate and the “loan” that you have to make to the government until the director's loan is repaid
    The issue with all of this is the narrative. Another Tory toff earning vast sums offshore. No wonder the red wall Tory MPs are going up the wall.
    Sure. As I said in my original post the optics are horrible
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,963
    edited November 2021
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Yes but it allows the Cayman Islands to be mentioned which may quicklly move on to why is someone in the UK using a location famous for tax avoidance.
    It sounds like it is just a property holding company though so I’d assume that JRM is paying the enveloped dwelling tax
    I wonder if he is paying the enveloped dwelling tax though. Haven't seen it confirmed.
    It wouldn’t be reported though. My suggestion was based on a line in the mail saying the company owned “property and other investments” as well as his partnership interest in Somerset Capital.

    But it looks more like it’s a general investment company. Takes his income from Somerset Capital, invests on a gross basis and remits to the UK when needed. Company owned by a Uk company.

    Assuming it’s structured like that it’s totally legal.
    Something can be 100% Legal while looking incredibly dubious and smelly to the general public.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HM The Queen will not attend the Remembrance Service today because of a 'back problem'.

    That's strange, it was the lead story at 8am this morning on the BBC News site that she would be attending the Remembrance Service.
    David Herdson said a few weeks ago that if she didn't attend this then this would be a red flag that something major is up.
    You're such a cynic :o
    Mystic Meg right enough
    She's dead!
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,487
    edited November 2021

    Racist Essex people.

    Cricket’s racism scandal deepens today as a player claims he was nicknamed Bomber by team-mates the day after the 9/11 attacks.

    Muslim Zoheb Sharif alleges he was also called “curry muncher” while playing for Essex.

    His allegations emerge following racism revelations by ex-Yorkshire player Azeem Rafiq that led to the club losing sponsors and the right to host Tests.


    On Friday Essex chair John Faragher resigned after an allegation he used racist language at a board meeting in 2017, which he strongly denies.

    Zoheb, 38, said he was speaking out because he could see “many parallels” between the Rafiq case at Yorkshire and what he had been through. He said: “Azim has shone a light on what’s been going on.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ex-cricket-player-says-i-25452875

    'Curry muncher' has to be at lower end of the racial abuse scale, surely. Would it be wrong to call a person from Yorkshire a 'pudding eater'? And it's made clear on an Essex followers board what the chair is alleged to have said and while it's not a phrase I've heard this century In wouldn't be at all surprised if many here have heard it, and possibly used it, in the past.
    It's all about context, much in the same way you don't call a black person a monkey.
    A nursery nurse I heard of referred to a BAME child as a 'little monkey' and all hell broke loose. The child had been mildly misbehaving and AIUI the nurse remarked to the mother when she came to collect him that 'he's been a little monkey today'.
    A phrase which I've often heard about a misbehaving child.
    Indeed there are several nurseries locally called "Cheeky Monkeys".
    Using the tests I suggested below:

    Would a white child be called a little monkey?
    Is the phrase ever used in the positive?

    I think here there is a massive difference between curry muncher and little monkey, as yes, a white child might be called a little monkey and it is mostly used affectionately.
    Yes.

    "Little monkey" is routine, and fine. Might avoid if I was with an obsessive person who habitually flies off the handle.
    "Curry muncher" - imo that is stereotyping and insulting, in the same sort of category as "raghead" for Middle Easterners.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes first Cabinet minister dragged into outside interests row - after not declaring £6m in cheap loans from his Cayman Islands-linked company

    In tomorrow's Mail on Sunday https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1459650263795605515/photo/1

    They are really scrapping the barrel

    Man takes loan from company he owns.

    Again it’s a really technical breach so I can’t see it deserves anything but a reprimand from the standards commissioner at most.

    But the optics, like Cox, look horrible
    Get a grip Charles! For some people six million quid is a lot of money particularly for home decoration. And how many Hartlipudlians can call on a little sideline in the Caymen Islands to provide the cash?
    That’s what I meant by “optics”.

    Objectively he’s obeyed all the rules (possibly a technical breach but a loan from a company he owns to himself can’t be more than that).

    But it’s a big number and it mentions the Cayman Islands. So I’m sure people who dislike him will attack him energetically
    It is possible to be wrong and still be within the law. The ultra rich bending the rules and manipulating a system they created is not ok. It’s doubly not ok when they impose strict regimes on people on the breadline.

    It’s more than optics.
    Please, do set out what is wrong about it?

    Directors loans vs. dividend payments is a common choice
    If you think directors loans and dividend payments are common, may I respectfully suggest you are spectacularly, mind bogglingly out of touch. Most people never go anywhere near this sort of thing.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862
    DavidL said:

    Sturgeon has an ever increasing number of questions to answer: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeons-book-publisher-probed-25397677

    The questions in that article are why an SNP publisher received over £500k of public money (more than the entire net worth of the company according to their accounts) on a false basis (claiming that they were in Inverness and thus eligible for the grants when they weren't) to publish a book of Nicola's speeches, which no doubt schools and public libraries were told to buy. It really does put the petty corruption of the likes of Owen Paterson and IDS in the shade.

    It's the sort of thing that has the likes of @malcolmg turning up his nose in contempt.

    The description by Stuart Campbell in September was spot on. He said:

    "Because there is no “independence movement” any more, just an independence industry. It provides a very lucrative living for perhaps a couple of hundred people – SNP MPs, MSPs, party staff and apparatchiks, special advisers, quango heads and favoured civil servants lavishly rewarded for their personal loyalty to Nicola Sturgeon despite track records of incompetence, bungling and impropriety that have cost taxpayers a vast fortune."

    At the moment Sturgeon is still expressing concerns about Covid and the need for further lock downs. It's absurd, the number of cases in Scotland is falling almost as fast as the rest of the UK but she needs Covid to drag on because she has promised the referendum once it is out of the way and, right now, that looks seriously foolhardy. More importantly, it is a threat to that all so lucrative industry, one of the very few left in Scotland.

    David, I am happy to report that I have been stating on here for at least a year that she is worse than Boris and Dross et al. They are just incompetent public school boys , she is the real cosa nostra. As you say independence for her clique is just a front and she has promised many many times the referendum is on its way, her carrots are almost used up. Only the absolute thick sheep are still in the fold, all the real independence people have left, SNP are now like Rangers administration , just vultures at the top. What great event will occur after covid to delay the referendum. @DavidL
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    David on the money again.


    Disagree. A bad back can happen on its own without there being anything else wrong and can, as I can attest, render you utterly incapable.

    There may be something else going on or it may be an excuse. She is 95 after all. But it doesn't automatically follow as he is assuming.

    Any other event and I would agree with you but this the armed forces she is missing, something she holds dear, I think the only ones she has missed during her reign was when she was heavily pregnant with Andrew or Edward.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    eek said:

    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting

    That wasn't quite what I heard her say.
    In what way
    See Mr Eek's post upthread; she pointed out that plane was cheaper than train and made a brief case for a rethink on train and plane prices.

    She did prevaricate a bit Starmer's once upon a time second job, though.
    Round here - all the MPs now fly from Teesside to Heathrow because it's cheaper and takes about the same time (you have to remember you can do entrance to plane in 20 minutes without much hassle).

    When LNER were trying to reduce the number of trains stopping at Darlington, the thing that stopped them was when the MPs started to discuss getting Lumo (the new cheap First Group service from Edinburgh / Newcastle to London) to fill in the gaps created,

    Takes a long time from Heathrow to Central London, though.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202

    Andrew Marr set about Rayner over Starmer's second job earnings and inappropriate use of his office and he was relentless

    Apparently she wants to ban lawyers second jobs and all internal domestic flights by politicians

    Interesting

    That wasn't quite what I heard her say.
    In what way
    See Mr Eek's post upthread; she pointed out that plane was cheaper than train and made a brief case for a rethink on train and plane prices.

    She did prevaricate a bit about Starmer's once upon a time second job, though.
    Marr asked if she would ban lawyers and she did say yes

    I agree about her comments about making train travel cheaper
    So if lawyers cannot maintain their qualifications and experience who is going to fill the roles of Attorney-General and Solicitor-General in a future Labour government?

    Did he ask her that?

  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,330
    edited November 2021
    Cyclefree said:



    That is all fine. But Staley and Barclays have been at pains throughout to say that Staley and Epstein were not friends, that this was a professional relationship only. So the issue of standing by your friends does not really arise.

    (I note in passing that that the standing by your friends is the argument Andrew has used.)

    And if Staley lied about that or was economical with the actualite - whether to the Board or directly/indirectly to the FCA - that is very relevant to whether he is fit and proper.

    The other point is this: if a client is in the procuring girls for prostitution business, it raises an issue about the money he is depositing with you. That money may well be the proceeds of crime and no professional banker with any care for his reputation or that of the bank where he works should have anything to do with it. At a minimum serious questions should have been asked. Were they?

    Yes, I don't know the case, and I'm sure you're right that the defence sounds dodgy - I was just reflecting on the general issue of friendship. And on that narrow point I'm not inclined to blame Andrew for remaining friends with someone convicted - the reservations that most of us feel about him relate to the question of whether he did, or tolerated, anything himself.

    A related issue (yeah, it's a quiet morning so I'm idly speculating) is how far one has to go in reporting suspicion of crime - this often comes up with terrorists ("I did think he was getting into dodgy company", "he often expressed violent thoughts but I never imagined..."). At the other extreme I can't imagine any of us would inform on a friend who admitted parking on a double yellow line. At school there was a boy who habitually stole bikes for convenience (in Denmark there were hundreds at every station, many of them unlocked). We thought he was nuts but we certainly didn't think of reporting him. What about a friend who admits to using illegal drugs? Or a friend who admits cheating on his taxes? Do we essentially have an individual rating system for which crimes we think are serious?
This discussion has been closed.