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Trump’s big WH2020 lie could threaten democracy itself – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    Andy_JS said:

    "@USA_Polling

    Virginia Exit Poll:

    Youngkin:
    Favourable: 53%
    Unfavourable: 44%
    Net: +9%

    McAuliffe:
    Favourable: 44%
    Unfavourable: 53%
    Net: -9%

    - MSNBC Exit -"

    https://twitter.com/USA_Polling/status/1455645290648719361

    The proviso with all these is... how are they dealing with postals? It's quite possible that on the day voting is heavily Republican.

    Still, right now, have to say that I expect a Youngkin win.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Leon said:

    I can't remember the last time I saw a wild hedgehog

    There is one lives in my back garden.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Weighed in, weighed in


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    BigRich said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@USA_Polling

    Virginia Exit Poll:

    Youngkin:
    Favourable: 53%
    Unfavourable: 44%
    Net: +9%

    McAuliffe:
    Favourable: 44%
    Unfavourable: 53%
    Net: -9%

    - MSNBC Exit -"

    https://twitter.com/USA_Polling/status/1455645290648719361

    Are theses exit poles waited to include early voters and postal voters?
    That's the biggy. If these are on the day voters only, then they are worse than useless.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Startling fact I just learned,

    The British probably (data sources differ) eat more garlic per head than the French

    That's the UK food revolution, right there

    The revolution is incomplete. The PB Ready Mealers remain vocal and numerous.
    I reckon PB is a self-selecting group of quite geeky people, mainly male and middle aged or older, who have a nerdy inability to appreciate sensual pleasures
    Electoral and political minutiae, cricket, and trains are geeky? Well now I've heard everything.

    It wouldn't be so necessary were it not socially unacceptable to admit to being interested in news about Lords amendments, by elections and Romanian general elections.
  • Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    TimT said:

    Foxy said:

    TimT said:

    Exit polls looking very good for the Dems. Trump Unfavourable/Favourable 54/43-ish. Younkin figures not much different

    If that is correct Dem looks value surely?
    That would be my take.

    57/37 split on abortion should be legal. Also sounds good for Dems.
    The Smarkets Dems by greater than 2.5% is value too. Currently 4.6.

    How accurate are CNN exit polls?
    JBriskin3 said:

    18-29yo

    Mcauliffe 53
    Youngkin 46

    Youngkin wins if that is accurate.
    Certainly the geezers outnumber the punks in this (and most) elections.

    BUT we still have to see how the in-betweens vote.

    Also, am not sure IF exit polling also was done sampling early voting?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Also 51% GOP either not conservative enough or just about right. Dems trailing on the not liberal enough, just right comparison.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,900
    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    According to the NY Times, the Virginia Governor's race is currently tied at zero all! This all the hallmarks of a very close race.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    So I am leaning a 53% or so Youngkin win.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    rcs1000 said:

    According to the NY Times, the Virginia Governor's race is currently tied at zero all! This all the hallmarks of a very close race.

    Perhaps the biggest surprise is that - 12 minutes after the polls close - Independent candidate Princess Blanding is still hanging in there, keeping up with the leaders with her total of (checks site) zero votes.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    rcs1000 said:

    According to the NY Times, the Virginia Governor's race is currently tied at zero all! This all the hallmarks of a very close race.

    #stopthecount.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    Youngkin in the lead!

    First vote drop. He's up 3,933 to 2,246 as we see a bunch of rural counties drop early votes.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Startling fact I just learned,

    The British probably (data sources differ) eat more garlic per head than the French

    That's the UK food revolution, right there

    The revolution is incomplete. The PB Ready Mealers remain vocal and numerous.
    I don't know anyone who isn't interested in, and informed about, food. Literally no one. Even my elderly male relatives, who can't cook, like a good meal and will talk about food and restaurants, they just can't cook stuff

    I reckon PB is a self-selecting group of quite geeky people, mainly male and middle aged or older, who have a nerdy inability to appreciate sensual pleasures

    The future belongs to the foodies. Young British people are much much foodier than the old.
    Indeed. I can think of only one of my friends/relatives who is food-neuter, and even he is (too) easily impressed by well-mixed drinks or vaguely inventive dishes.

    PB is deeply unrepresentative in its food celibacy.

    Exhibit a: a former government minister who does fantastic work in the food and farming sector, yet is intensely relaxed about the fact he can’t cook, subsists on ready meals, and is repulsed by getting jam on his fingers.

    Exhibit b: an author who says the secret to his enduring slenderness is his “not liking” food.

    Exhibit c: a trainspotter who thinks having three types of vinegar in the pantry is dangerously louche.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    According to the NY Times, the Virginia Governor's race is currently tied at zero all! This all the hallmarks of a very close race.

    #stopthecount.
    Perhaps that should have been #startthecount. ;)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    According to the NY Times, the Virginia Governor's race is currently tied at zero all! This all the hallmarks of a very close race.

    Perhaps the biggest surprise is that - 12 minutes after the polls close - Independent candidate Princess Blanding is still hanging in there, keeping up with the leaders with her total of (checks site) zero votes.
    There are votes in

    https://results.elections.virginia.gov/vaelections/2021 November General/Site/Governor.html

    Youngkin with a big lead. (11 of 2855 precincts reporting)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    Youngkin's lead is extending. He's now up 6,325 vs 2,804.

    Princess Blanding is way off the pace now, I'm afraid, on just 56 votes.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    1126 MCuliffe
    910 Youngkin

    Actual votes so far..

    Via CNN

    Pretty sure I'm not going to make it to the end of this one.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    JBriskin3 said:

    1126 MCuliffe
    910 Youngkin

    Actual votes so far..

    Via CNN

    Pretty sure I'm not going to make it to the end of this one.

    NYTimes is quicker.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Night all. Hopefully I am a few quids up if Youngkin wins
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    Youngkin
    10,525

    McAuliffe
    4,382
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    rcs1000 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    1126 MCuliffe
    910 Youngkin

    Actual votes so far..

    Via CNN

    Pretty sure I'm not going to make it to the end of this one.

    NYTimes is quicker.
    Yes I found out pretty quickly that I was on the slow coach after I posted.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    According to the NY Times, the Virginia Governor's race is currently tied at zero all! This all the hallmarks of a very close race.

    Perhaps the biggest surprise is that - 12 minutes after the polls close - Independent candidate Princess Blanding is still hanging in there, keeping up with the leaders with her total of (checks site) zero votes.
    There are votes in

    https://results.elections.virginia.gov/vaelections/2021 November General/Site/Governor.html

    Youngkin with a big lead. (11 of 2855 precincts reporting)
    19 votes for Princess L. Blanding
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    MrEd said:

    Night all. Hopefully I am a few quids up if Youngkin wins

    Why wouldn't you be up a few quid if he wins?
  • Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Does anyone expect McAuliffe to pull this off?
  • MrEd said:

    Night all. Hopefully I am a few quids up if Youngkin wins

    Hopefully you should know whether you're up or down if he wins before you go to bed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    edited November 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone expect McAuliffe to pull this off?

    It'll all depend on how good the Dems early voting operations were, because this is going to be a relatively low turnout election.

    But I expect a 52/53% share for Youngkin.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    MrEd said:

    Night all. Hopefully I am a few quids up if Youngkin wins

    I'm also choosing this moment to go to bed.

    Catch you all tomorrow.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Night all. Hopefully I am a few quids up if Youngkin wins

    Why wouldn't you be up a few quid if he wins?
    Very true. More than a few quids up if Youngkin wins by over 2.5%
  • MrEd said:

    Night all. Hopefully I am a few quids up if Youngkin wins

    Hopefully you should know whether you're up or down if he wins before you go to bed.
    Virginia took some steps to speed up the count but it is still expected to drag out.

    From NYT live blog - Fairfax County is delayed in reporting its early vote ballots. We do not know when we are expecting those ballots to be counted, but it will not be by the self-imposed 8 p.m. deadline.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    Youngkin
    65,952

    McAuliffe
    58,335
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,907
    edited November 2021
    Looks like Youngkin will win the Virginia governorship then based on the early returns and exit polls. That will be encouraging news for the GOP in the first significant post Trump elections.

    However we must also remember Republican Bob McDonnell won the Virginia governorship in 2009 in Obama's first year in office. While that was the first sign the GOP would retake the House the following year it did not mean much in terms of the presidential election in 3 years time.

    Nonetheless now Trump is out of the Oval Office I would expect to see a GOP revival at least in Congress and at state level
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Leon said:

    I can't remember the last time I saw a wild hedgehog

    Most summer nights in my garden they snuffle about.

    If you live in a London flat, not so much.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    Language connects us to North America and Oceania. But history links us to Old Europe.

    The newness of the new world is alien. Much of it is synthetic: roads and soulless sprawl, rather than the charm and intensity of European cities.
  • MrEd said:

    Night all. Hopefully I am a few quids up if Youngkin wins

    Hopefully you should know whether you're up or down if he wins before you go to bed.
    Virginia took some steps to speed up the count but it is still expected to drag out.

    From NYT live blog - Fairfax County is delayed in reporting its early vote ballots. We do not know when we are expecting those ballots to be counted, but it will not be by the self-imposed 8 p.m. deadline.
    It was a joke. The speed of the count doesn't affect whether he's up or down if he wins.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    Youngkin
    126,240

    McAuliffe
    113,053
  • MrEd said:

    Night all. Hopefully I am a few quids up if Youngkin wins

    Hopefully you should know whether you're up or down if he wins before you go to bed.
    Virginia took some steps to speed up the count but it is still expected to drag out.

    From NYT live blog - Fairfax County is delayed in reporting its early vote ballots. We do not know when we are expecting those ballots to be counted, but it will not be by the self-imposed 8 p.m. deadline.
    It was a joke. The speed of the count doesn't affect whether he's up or down if he wins.
    UNLESS he got staked by a loan shark . . . with a VERY high rate of daily (or hourly) compound interest!
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    Youngkin
    126,240

    McAuliffe
    113,053

    So I’m delaying going to bedZ

    What’s your view @rcs1000 at this stage? I think it’s looking good for Youngkin but that may be my bias
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    9% reported, and Youngkin leads McAuliffe 52.7 vs 46.5%. Nothing in from Fairfax yet. Also, not clear if these are mostly early and postal (which would favour Dems) or on the day (the opposite).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Startling fact I just learned,

    The British probably (data sources differ) eat more garlic per head than the French

    That's the UK food revolution, right there

    The revolution is incomplete. The PB Ready Mealers remain vocal and numerous.
    I don't know anyone who isn't interested in, and informed about, food. Literally no one. Even my elderly male relatives, who can't cook, like a good meal and will talk about food and restaurants, they just can't cook stuff

    I reckon PB is a self-selecting group of quite geeky people, mainly male and middle aged or older, who have a nerdy inability to appreciate sensual pleasures

    The future belongs to the foodies. Young British people are much much foodier than the old.
    Indeed. I can think of only one of my friends/relatives who is food-neuter, and even he is (too) easily impressed by well-mixed drinks or vaguely inventive dishes.

    PB is deeply unrepresentative in its food celibacy.

    Exhibit a: a former government minister who does fantastic work in the food and farming sector, yet is intensely relaxed about the fact he can’t cook, subsists on ready meals, and is repulsed by getting jam on his fingers.

    Exhibit b: an author who says the secret to his enduring slenderness is his “not liking” food.

    Exhibit c: a trainspotter who thinks having three types of vinegar in the pantry is dangerously louche.
    There are plenty of foodies here, and seeing the rise of junk food by Deliveroo to the young, they ain't foodies in the main!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,907
    edited November 2021

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Startling fact I just learned,

    The British probably (data sources differ) eat more garlic per head than the French

    That's the UK food revolution, right there

    The revolution is incomplete. The PB Ready Mealers remain vocal and numerous.
    I don't know anyone who isn't interested in, and informed about, food. Literally no one. Even my elderly male relatives, who can't cook, like a good meal and will talk about food and restaurants, they just can't cook stuff

    I reckon PB is a self-selecting group of quite geeky people, mainly male and middle aged or older, who have a nerdy inability to appreciate sensual pleasures

    The future belongs to the foodies. Young British people are much much foodier than the old.
    Indeed. I can think of only one of my friends/relatives who is food-neuter, and even he is (too) easily impressed by well-mixed drinks or vaguely inventive dishes.

    PB is deeply unrepresentative in its food celibacy.

    Exhibit a: a former government minister who does fantastic work in the food and farming sector, yet is intensely relaxed about the fact he can’t cook, subsists on ready meals, and is repulsed by getting jam on his fingers.

    Exhibit b: an author who says the secret to his enduring slenderness is his “not liking” food.

    Exhibit c: a trainspotter who thinks having three types of vinegar in the pantry is dangerously louche.
    There are plenty of foodies here, and seeing the rise of junk food by Deliveroo to the young, they ain't foodies in the main!
    Plenty of foodies but also a lot of food-neuter.

    (p.s. I said nothing about young people, that was someone else)
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    rcs1000 said:

    9% reported, and Youngkin leads McAuliffe 52.7 vs 46.5%. Nothing in from Fairfax yet. Also, not clear if these are mostly early and postal (which would favour Dems) or on the day (the opposite).

    I guess in theory somebody could be doing Precinct by presinket comparisons to 4 years ago, otherwise we are realy at the guessing stage right now!!

    I do not that the betfare has moved a bit in Youngkins direction, in the last hour, but still not overwhelmingly so.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Youngkin
    126,240

    McAuliffe
    113,053

    So I’m delaying going to bedZ

    What’s your view @rcs1000 at this stage? I think it’s looking good for Youngkin but that may be my bias
    So, I've kind of gone into this evening expecting Youngkin to win by four to five points, so I'm also likely to twist the results to suit my existing preconceptions.

    My gut is that most of the votes counted are early (and therefore good for the Dems), but are from mostly rural areas (which is good for the Republicans).

    I'm sticking with Youngkin by 4-5, but that may change radically as the evening progresses.
  • rcs1000 said:

    9% reported, and Youngkin leads McAuliffe 52.7 vs 46.5%. Nothing in from Fairfax yet. Also, not clear if these are mostly early and postal (which would favour Dems) or on the day (the opposite).

    Yes, the situation re: which votes are reported first is clearly mixed. Some counties with just handfuls reported, my guess is these are Election Day votes from one or a few precincts. Other counties reporting thousands, which could mean they are all or mostly Early Voting ballots.

    Note that VA law was changed authorizing counties to begin processing EV ballots before the polls close, so these returns could be reported on Election Night. But it's first time, for example note that Fairfax had planned to report by 8pm local time, is now saying the EV results will be delayed.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Farooq said:

    Selebian said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Startling fact I just learned,

    The British probably (data sources differ) eat more garlic per head than the French

    That's the UK food revolution, right there

    France eats more beef than the UK, per person.
    Fr = 23 kg/person/year
    UK = 18 kg/person/year
    My world is being turned upside down.

    Someone give me the figures on escargots, quick (as long as they align with my culinary world view)
    I daren't look.
    All I know is I find myself increasingly taken by les rosbifs, and I have stopped trusting the garlic-munchers.
    Though where beef is concerned, we are still Les Rosbifs, and the French - if you look at how they cook their steak - Les Bleus.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    This is a much better caption competition


    "I told you I was ambidextrous"
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Yeah, a third of us are Polynesian 🙄
  • HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Wales do. Their mutual predilection for sheep is well known.

    New Zealand is to Australia, what Wales is to England.
  • HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I have visited NZ several times and agree with you
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    rcs1000 said:

    9% reported, and Youngkin leads McAuliffe 52.7 vs 46.5%. Nothing in from Fairfax yet. Also, not clear if these are mostly early and postal (which would favour Dems) or on the day (the opposite).

    Yes, the situation re: which votes are reported first is clearly mixed. Some counties with just handfuls reported, my guess is these are Election Day votes from one or a few precincts. Other counties reporting thousands, which could mean they are all or mostly Early Voting ballots.

    Note that VA law was changed authorizing counties to begin processing EV ballots before the polls close, so these returns could be reported on Election Night. But it's first time, for example note that Fairfax had planned to report by 8pm local time, is now saying the EV results will be delayed.
    Quite a lot of Loudon votes in. Biden won Loudon by 25 points when he only won the state by 10. Currently, McAuliffe just leads by 6. Looks unpromising for him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,907
    edited November 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Youngkin
    126,240

    McAuliffe
    113,053

    So I’m delaying going to bedZ

    What’s your view @rcs1000 at this stage? I think it’s looking good for Youngkin but that may be my bias
    So, I've kind of gone into this evening expecting Youngkin to win by four to five points, so I'm also likely to twist the results to suit my existing preconceptions.

    My gut is that most of the votes counted are early (and therefore good for the Dems), but are from mostly rural areas (which is good for the Republicans).

    I'm sticking with Youngkin by 4-5, but that may change radically as the evening progresses.
    Just looking at the NYT site, McAuliffe is leading 53-47 in Loudoun with 76pc of the vote in. Now, hard to tell, but assuming the remainder are in-day votes, I’d say that makes Loudoun probably tied between the two. If that is the case, I think Youngkin has done it, especially as with 70pc in, it looks like he has won in Chesterfield, which is what he needed to do.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Mango said:

    This is a much better caption competition


    "I told you I was ambidextrous"
    Boris demonstrating a firm grasp of the essentials…
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    rcs1000 said:

    9% reported, and Youngkin leads McAuliffe 52.7 vs 46.5%. Nothing in from Fairfax yet. Also, not clear if these are mostly early and postal (which would favour Dems) or on the day (the opposite).

    Yes, the situation re: which votes are reported first is clearly mixed. Some counties with just handfuls reported, my guess is these are Election Day votes from one or a few precincts. Other counties reporting thousands, which could mean they are all or mostly Early Voting ballots.

    Note that VA law was changed authorizing counties to begin processing EV ballots before the polls close, so these returns could be reported on Election Night. But it's first time, for example note that Fairfax had planned to report by 8pm local time, is now saying the EV results will be delayed.
    Quite a lot of Loudon votes in. Biden won Loudon by 25 points when he only won the state by 10. Currently, McAuliffe just leads by 6. Looks unpromising for him.
    ...although those are mostly election day votes (better for Reps). There's a good oveview by vote type here:

    https://www.vpap.org/electionresults/20211102/statewide/
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited November 2021

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, Ireland is culturally the country closest to the UK. Although in law it is not a “foreign” country (Ireland Act 1949, s.2(1))
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Youngkin
    126,240

    McAuliffe
    113,053

    So I’m delaying going to bedZ

    What’s your view @rcs1000 at this stage? I think it’s looking good for Youngkin but that may be my bias
    So, I've kind of gone into this evening expecting Youngkin to win by four to five points, so I'm also likely to twist the results to suit my existing preconceptions.

    My gut is that most of the votes counted are early (and therefore good for the Dems), but are from mostly rural areas (which is good for the Republicans).

    I'm sticking with Youngkin by 4-5, but that may change radically as the evening progresses.
    Just looking at the NYT site, McAuliffe is leading 53-47 in Loudoun with 76pc of the vote in. Now, hard to tell, but assuming the remainder are in-day votes, I’d say that makes Loudoun probably tied between the two. If that is the case, I think Youngkin has done it, especially as with 70pc in, it looks like he has won in Chesterfield, which is what he needed to do.
    We're now 23% in, and it looks very positive for Youngkin. With one big proviso:

    "12 percent of Election Day votes have been counted by the state, compared to just 5 percent of early and 2 percent of absentee votes"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,907
    edited November 2021
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Yeah, a third of us are Polynesian 🙄
    72% of New Zealanders are still of white European ancestry (most of those from the British isles), plus we have a growing non white population ourselves anyway, especially in London and our biggest cities
  • NYT - Nate Cohn:

    It’s still early in Virginia. Youngkin has an early lead. That may be deceptive. So far, we mainly have heavily Republican Election Day vote. Over all, 12 percent of Election Day votes have been counted by the state, compared to just 5 percent of early and 2 percent of absentee votes.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Youngkin
    126,240

    McAuliffe
    113,053

    So I’m delaying going to bedZ

    What’s your view @rcs1000 at this stage? I think it’s looking good for Youngkin but that may be my bias
    So, I've kind of gone into this evening expecting Youngkin to win by four to five points, so I'm also likely to twist the results to suit my existing preconceptions.

    My gut is that most of the votes counted are early (and therefore good for the Dems), but are from mostly rural areas (which is good for the Republicans).

    I'm sticking with Youngkin by 4-5, but that may change radically as the evening progresses.
    Just looking at the NYT site, McAuliffe is leading 53-47 in Loudoun with 76pc of the vote in. Now, hard to tell, but assuming the remainder are in-day votes, I’d say that makes Loudoun probably tied between the two. If that is the case, I think Youngkin has done it, especially as with 70pc in, it looks like he has won in Chesterfield, which is what he needed to do.
    We're now 23% in, and it looks very positive for Youngkin. With one big proviso:

    "12 percent of Election Day votes have been counted by the state, compared to just 5 percent of early and 2 percent of absentee votes"
    Mmm, that doesn’t make sense or maybe I am being particularly dumb. 23% of the vote is in but only 12% of Election Day votes / 5% etc
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,907
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Youngkin
    126,240

    McAuliffe
    113,053

    So I’m delaying going to bedZ

    What’s your view @rcs1000 at this stage? I think it’s looking good for Youngkin but that may be my bias
    So, I've kind of gone into this evening expecting Youngkin to win by four to five points, so I'm also likely to twist the results to suit my existing preconceptions.

    My gut is that most of the votes counted are early (and therefore good for the Dems), but are from mostly rural areas (which is good for the Republicans).

    I'm sticking with Youngkin by 4-5, but that may change radically as the evening progresses.
    Just looking at the NYT site, McAuliffe is leading 53-47 in Loudoun with 76pc of the vote in. Now, hard to tell, but assuming the remainder are in-day votes, I’d say that makes Loudoun probably tied between the two. If that is the case, I think Youngkin has done it, especially as with 70pc in, it looks like he has won in Chesterfield, which is what he needed to do.
    We're now 23% in, and it looks very positive for Youngkin. With one big proviso:

    "12 percent of Election Day votes have been counted by the state, compared to just 5 percent of early and 2 percent of absentee votes"
    Mmm, that doesn’t make sense or maybe I am being particularly dumb. 23% of the vote is in but only 12% of Election Day votes / 5% etc
    I assume it means 23% of presinkts, but who knows
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Youngkin
    126,240

    McAuliffe
    113,053

    So I’m delaying going to bedZ

    What’s your view @rcs1000 at this stage? I think it’s looking good for Youngkin but that may be my bias
    So, I've kind of gone into this evening expecting Youngkin to win by four to five points, so I'm also likely to twist the results to suit my existing preconceptions.

    My gut is that most of the votes counted are early (and therefore good for the Dems), but are from mostly rural areas (which is good for the Republicans).

    I'm sticking with Youngkin by 4-5, but that may change radically as the evening progresses.
    Just looking at the NYT site, McAuliffe is leading 53-47 in Loudoun with 76pc of the vote in. Now, hard to tell, but assuming the remainder are in-day votes, I’d say that makes Loudoun probably tied between the two. If that is the case, I think Youngkin has done it, especially as with 70pc in, it looks like he has won in Chesterfield, which is what he needed to do.
    We're now 23% in, and it looks very positive for Youngkin. With one big proviso:

    "12 percent of Election Day votes have been counted by the state, compared to just 5 percent of early and 2 percent of absentee votes"
    Mmm, that doesn’t make sense or maybe I am being particularly dumb. 23% of the vote is in but only 12% of Election Day votes / 5% etc
    According to https://www.vpap.org/electionresults/20211102/statewide/ the current figure is 26.7% of precincts reporting election-day votes and5.2% of early votes. The first figure doesn't however seem to mean 26.% of election-day votes - some precincts are very thinly-populated.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited November 2021
    Always be careful with CNN % reporting figure.

    It is not % of total vote - I think it is usually % of precincts - and precincts can vary in size and of course have different turnout.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited November 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    I would have to disagree with this. The majority of British towns are pretty good from a cultural point of view. Even in many former mining/industrial areas there are usually interesting things going on in terms of cultural festivals, museums, galleries, etc.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Just seen CNN using the phrase "Estimated Vote" - so maybe they have changed this figure - in the past it was often misleading.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    Ireland
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    I was disputing your frankly weird 2nd paragraph, claiming that most of Britain lacks social and cultural infrastructure
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,907
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    I was disputing your frankly weird 2nd paragraph, claiming that most of Britain lacks social and cultural infrastructure
    Once you get outside of London, Oxford and Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bath and maybe a few other places like Stratford on Avon nowhere is exactly a great magnet for tourists or with large numbers of cultural attractions or indeed with a great deal of wealth beyond parts of the Home Counties and the Cotswolds
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Youngkin
    126,240

    McAuliffe
    113,053

    So I’m delaying going to bedZ

    What’s your view @rcs1000 at this stage? I think it’s looking good for Youngkin but that may be my bias
    So, I've kind of gone into this evening expecting Youngkin to win by four to five points, so I'm also likely to twist the results to suit my existing preconceptions.

    My gut is that most of the votes counted are early (and therefore good for the Dems), but are from mostly rural areas (which is good for the Republicans).

    I'm sticking with Youngkin by 4-5, but that may change radically as the evening progresses.
    Just looking at the NYT site, McAuliffe is leading 53-47 in Loudoun with 76pc of the vote in. Now, hard to tell, but assuming the remainder are in-day votes, I’d say that makes Loudoun probably tied between the two. If that is the case, I think Youngkin has done it, especially as with 70pc in, it looks like he has won in Chesterfield, which is what he needed to do.
    We're now 23% in, and it looks very positive for Youngkin. With one big proviso:

    "12 percent of Election Day votes have been counted by the state, compared to just 5 percent of early and 2 percent of absentee votes"
    Mmm, that doesn’t make sense or maybe I am being particularly dumb. 23% of the vote is in but only 12% of Election Day votes / 5% etc
    According to https://www.vpap.org/electionresults/20211102/statewide/ the current figure is 26.7% of precincts reporting election-day votes and5.2% of early votes. The first figure doesn't however seem to mean 26.% of election-day votes - some precincts are very thinly-populated.
    That would make sense.

    Looking at the NYT site, looks like Youngkin has big leads in Chesterfield and Virginia Beach. That is definitely a big plus for him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,907
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    Ireland
    I covered Ireland earlier as the possible only closer nation than New Zealand to us but Ireland has its own Head of State, we share the Queen with New Zealand and Ireland is still in the EU
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,907
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    I was disputing your frankly weird 2nd paragraph, claiming that most of Britain lacks social and cultural infrastructure
    Once you get outside of London, Oxford and Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bath and maybe a few other places like Stratford on Avon and nowhere is exactly a great magnet for tourists or large numbers of cultural attractions or indeed wealth beyond parts of the Home Counties and the Cotswolds
    But that is not the same as a lack of cultural and social infrastructure. Plymouth has a great cultural infrastructure. Many Cornish town and villages have lots of culture (St Ives, Mousehole spring to mind). And pretty much everywhere in the country has country pubs. We truly underestimate the social value of pubs in Britain - nowhere else (outside perhaps Ireland) can replicate the pub.
    Does Plymouth really have better cultural infrastructure than Auckland?

    There are plenty of bars and pubs in New Zealand too
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    Ireland
    I covered Ireland earlier as the possible only closer nation than New Zealand to us but Ireland has its own Head of State, we share the Queen with New Zealand and Ireland is still in the EU
    Not sure that Head of State or EU membership is that relevant to cultural proximity. How the peoples instinctively think and react to situations is more what I would go with. And on that parameter, there is next to nothing between the UK and Ireland.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    I would have to disagree with this. The majority of British towns are pretty good from a cultural point of view. Even in many former mining/industrial areas there are usually interesting things going on in terms of cultural festivals, museums, galleries, etc.
    Exactly right. @hyufd’s home town of Epping has more social and cultural infrastructure in its tight bounds than most of the interior of North Island put together.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    I was disputing your frankly weird 2nd paragraph, claiming that most of Britain lacks social and cultural infrastructure
    Once you get outside of London, Oxford and Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bath and maybe a few other places like Stratford on Avon nowhere is exactly a great magnet for tourists or with large numbers of cultural attractions or indeed with a great deal of wealth beyond parts of the Home Counties and the Cotswolds
    You fundamentally misunderstand human society and human nature. Which is a bit alarming, but maybe not entirely surprising

    We're not talking about tourist traffic, FFS
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    I was disputing your frankly weird 2nd paragraph, claiming that most of Britain lacks social and cultural infrastructure
    Once you get outside of London, Oxford and Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bath and maybe a few other places like Stratford on Avon and nowhere is exactly a great magnet for tourists or large numbers of cultural attractions or indeed wealth beyond parts of the Home Counties and the Cotswolds
    But that is not the same as a lack of cultural and social infrastructure. Plymouth has a great cultural infrastructure. Many Cornish town and villages have lots of culture (St Ives, Mousehole spring to mind). And pretty much everywhere in the country has country pubs. We truly underestimate the social value of pubs in Britain - nowhere else (outside perhaps Ireland) can replicate the pub.
    Does Plymouth really have better cultural infrastructure than Auckland?

    There are plenty of bars and pubs in New Zealand too
    Plymouth has an excellent theatre and gets great music acts. I don't know Aukland that well, but Aukland should be compared with London, not Plymouth. Does Plymouth have better culture than Christchurch or Dunedin. Undoubtedly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited November 2021
    Buxton is in the middle of nowhere, but the festival there is one of the best in the country, attracting world class authors, musicians, performers, etc.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    I would have to disagree with this. The majority of British towns are pretty good from a cultural point of view. Even in many former mining/industrial areas there are usually interesting things going on in terms of cultural festivals, museums, galleries, etc.
    Also: pubs

    Something as basic as that: pubs

    The UK is laced with many thousands of historic, dangerous, beloved, iconic, forgotten, ugly and beautiful pubs, in every town and city, and most villages. They are a huge reservoir of cultural and social infrastructure

    Likewise, churches, parks, stately homes, castles, megaliths, cathedrals. You can't move a mile in Britain without coming across something historic, and precious, and which someone somewhere cares about deeply. It is the upside of living in a crowded (too crowded) and ancient country.

    In this regard we are much more like France or Italy that Australia or America. Vast tracts of Australia are, still, untouched, to a quite bewildering extent for a European. There is no tapestry of human memory enmeshed with the landscape

    See my post 3 above yours on pubs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    Ireland
    I covered Ireland earlier as the possible only closer nation than New Zealand to us but Ireland has its own Head of State, we share the Queen with New Zealand and Ireland is still in the EU
    Not sure that Head of State or EU membership is that relevant to cultural proximity. How the peoples instinctively think and react to situations is more what I would go with. And on that parameter, there is next to nothing between the UK and Ireland.
    I would put Australia ahead of Ireland in terms of cultural similarity to the UK. Historic Catholicism does make Ireland slightly yet significantly different

    I've never been to NZ so I cannot talk of it

    I would rank the nations (in terms of similarity to Britain):

    Australia
    (NZ here?)
    Ireland
    Canada
    USA
    Western Europe (with Holland, Denmark and the Nordics top)


  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    In NZ, they can't say the "litter E" properly. In Ireland, they can't say the "letter Oi" properly :lol:
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    Ireland
    I covered Ireland earlier as the possible only closer nation than New Zealand to us but Ireland has its own Head of State, we share the Queen with New Zealand and Ireland is still in the EU
    Not sure that Head of State or EU membership is that relevant to cultural proximity. How the peoples instinctively think and react to situations is more what I would go with. And on that parameter, there is next to nothing between the UK and Ireland.
    I would put Australia ahead of Ireland in terms of cultural similarity to the UK. Historic Catholicism does make Ireland slightly yet significantly different

    I've never been to NZ so I cannot talk of it

    I would rank the nations (in terms of similarity to Britain):

    Australia
    (NZ here?)
    Ireland
    Canada
    USA
    Western Europe (with Holland, Denmark and the Nordics top)


    I was going on the ease of socializing with expat communities as I've experienced it living abroad most of my life. I'd put it Ireland, NZ, Aus, Canada, US, Dutch, Swedes, Danes and then the rest is so different it makes little sense to order them.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    https://www.vpap.org/electionresults/20211102/office-governor/mapshift/?#feature has some swing data of the kind we look for in UK elections. Small to medium swings to the GOP everywhere so far. I think Youngkin's got it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    I would have to disagree with this. The majority of British towns are pretty good from a cultural point of view. Even in many former mining/industrial areas there are usually interesting things going on in terms of cultural festivals, museums, galleries, etc.
    Also: pubs

    Something as basic as that: pubs

    The UK is laced with many thousands of historic, dangerous, beloved, iconic, forgotten, ugly and beautiful pubs, in every town and city, and most villages. They are a huge reservoir of cultural and social infrastructure

    Likewise, churches, parks, stately homes, castles, megaliths, cathedrals. You can't move a mile in Britain without coming across something historic, and precious, and which someone somewhere cares about deeply. It is the upside of living in a crowded (too crowded) and ancient country.

    In this regard we are much more like France or Italy that Australia or America. Vast tracts of Australia are, still, untouched, to a quite bewildering extent for a European. There is no tapestry of human memory enmeshed with the landscape

    See my post 3 above yours on pubs.
    Yes, we absolutely agree

    Brits take their densely storied, richly coloured, historically intricate landscapes and cityscapes, with their age-old networks, for granted. Many many countries do not have what the UK has. Only favoured areas of western mainland Europe and maybe a few parts of east Asia (Japan?) can claim the same
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    I was disputing your frankly weird 2nd paragraph, claiming that most of Britain lacks social and cultural infrastructure
    Once you get outside of London, Oxford and Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bath and maybe a few other places like Stratford on Avon and nowhere is exactly a great magnet for tourists or large numbers of cultural attractions or indeed wealth beyond parts of the Home Counties and the Cotswolds
    But that is not the same as a lack of cultural and social infrastructure. Plymouth has a great cultural infrastructure. Many Cornish town and villages have lots of culture (St Ives, Mousehole spring to mind). And pretty much everywhere in the country has country pubs. We truly underestimate the social value of pubs in Britain - nowhere else (outside perhaps Ireland) can replicate the pub.
    Does Plymouth really have better cultural infrastructure than Auckland?

    There are plenty of bars and pubs in New Zealand too
    I drove hundreds of miles around North Island over three weeks and found maybe four decent pubs. It’s half a world away.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Betfair punters seem convinced of the result.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.187090973
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Surprising that so many in the the UK think we have more in common with the US than we do with Europe. For those of us who know and have worked in both the idea is ridiculous.

    The gulf between the parochial 'Leavers' and the more cosmopolitan Remainers is getting wider by the day. So much so I doubt the gulf will ever be bridged

    Though the parochial Remainers who can't look beyond their own tiny continental horizons fail to realise that the foreign nation that Britons are most associated and have most in common with is Australia.
    No, we have culturally more in common with New Zealand than Australia or the US or continental Europe
    Have you ever been to NZ? It’s only sort of like Britain in that it has a similar climate and speaks English. But, it’s not really much like Britain otherwise. It’s disperse and remote and lacks much in the way of social and cultural infrastructure. Its towns and villages are almost entirely soulless and utilitarian.
    I am not saying it is an exact replica of the UK, most countries are distinct from each other.

    However culturally, in its political and social views, in terms of average wealth per head, in terms of shared language and culture I would say New Zealand is closer to the UK than any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Ireland. However we also share the Queen with New Zealand unlike with Ireland and we are also outside the EU unlike Ireland now.

    Plus once you get outside of London and Edinburgh and Bath and Oxbridge and a few pretty Cotswold villages most of our market and industrial towns and villages and indeed most of our cities are not huge centres of culture either or with huge amounts of social and cultural infrastructure.
    This is bizarre nonsense
    Name one other country culturally closer to the UK than New Zealand then? Ireland I have already covered
    I was disputing your frankly weird 2nd paragraph, claiming that most of Britain lacks social and cultural infrastructure
    Once you get outside of London, Oxford and Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bath and maybe a few other places like Stratford on Avon nowhere is exactly a great magnet for tourists or with large numbers of cultural attractions or indeed with a great deal of wealth beyond parts of the Home Counties and the Cotswolds
    You fundamentally misunderstand human society and human nature. Which is a bit alarming, but maybe not entirely surprising

    We're not talking about tourist traffic, FFS
    Yes, I’m not clear why my term ‘social and cultural infrastructure’ has been interpreted as ‘tourist attractions’. Lost in translation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    Andy_JS said:

    Betfair punters seem convinced of the result.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.187090973

    Youngkin has an enormous lead on the NYT website

    This could be quite a significant election - in the UK too. This is maybe the first time the Right has weaponised Wokeness, and the Culture Wars, and used them to clear, decisive advantage
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Betfair punters seem convinced of the result.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.187090973

    Youngkin has an enormous lead on the NYT website

    This could be quite a significant election - in the UK too. This is maybe the first time the Right has weaponised Wokeness, and the Culture Wars, and used them to clear, decisive advantage
    The Dem progressives will blame it on McAuliffe who will be portrayed as the HRC of Virginia.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Andy_JS said:

    Betfair punters seem convinced of the result.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.187090973

    Hope everyone got their Youngkin bets on like I said :)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited November 2021
    It’s a fairly meaningless exercise to compare England with other countries, as it’s quite unique. It’s like saying France is like Italy. Well up to a point, but it’s not really like Italy. Italy is like Italy and France is like France.

    England is sod all like New Zealand for all that it is more like New Zealand than it is, say, Eritrea.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261

    It’s a fairly meaningless exercise to compare England with other countries, as it’s quite unique. It’s like saying France is like Italy. Well up to a point, but it’s not really like Italy. Italy is like Italy and France is like France.

    England is sod all like New Zealand for all that it is more like New Zealand than it is, say, Eritrea.

    It's not meaningless. For example, it tells you where you could be happy as an expat

    I had this debate with a Swiss businessman when I was in Switzerland in September. His thesis was that "you can never be truly comfortable or at ease in any country other than your own". He was speaking as a worldly Swiss man who has lived in multiple countries

    I disagreed. I told him as a Brit I felt entirely at home in Australia. At ease. I know the language, the sports, the politics, the jokes, I get virtually all of it. They go down the pub. They argue about cricket. We all know Shakespeare

    Australia is no more alien to me than the Hebrides or north Norfolk. It feels like a unique bit of Britain with a different climate (that is not meant to be patronising)

    Ireland is almost that yet there is something more alien in the culture, which must be the legacy of Catholicism (and, now, EU membership)

    France feels very foreign. Ditto Spain, Germany or Italy. I am not automatically at ease in these countries, beautiful and cultured as they are. I LOVE holidaying in these places, but that is different

    And on that uncontroversial note, goodnight
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    The idea that NZ has little social or cultural capital is batshit.

    I simply don’t recognise @Anabobazina’s picture.

    Sure, it’s not very densely populated.
    That’s kind of the point?

    Greater Wellington would be lucky to amount to half a million souls. It’s about the size of Bournemouth. But Wellington has Peter Jackson and Weta Workshops, a relatively famous “dub” scene, and it’s own horror comedy (currently available on Now TV).

    Bournemouth has a few tired guest houses.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Dave Wasserman has called it for Youngkin. He isn't often wrong.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Like anywhere, though, NZ has places to avoid.

    There’s certainly no “there” in Hamilton, Palmerston North, Whangarei, Hastings or Tauranga although the latter has a nice beach.

    But there’s all sorts of other charms. Art Deco Napier; colonial Russell; goldrush Dunedin, the vineyards of Blenheim; the quaint remoteness of outposts like Greymouth, Hokitika, Gisborne, or Oamaru.

    Auckland is a proper city, new world yes, but with several hundred coves, beaches and extinct volcanoes to explore and a very decent restaurant scene.
This discussion has been closed.