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October’s polling sees very little change in the big picture – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 2 in General
imageOctober’s polling sees very little change in the big picture – politicalbetting.com

Some of these polls could see Johnson having to leave Number 10.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,786
    edited November 2
    First and with no insider dealing.

    Honest.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 651
    Some ordinality other than 1.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,806
    mwadams said:

    Some ordinality other than 1.

    1 if you start at 0 :wink:
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,459

    First and with no insider dealing.

    Honest.

    I’ve been first a few times, not today.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    At the moment it looks like a narrow Tory majority or a hung parliament.

    Whether Starmer can achieve the latter and get enough seats to become PM with SNP and LD support could depend on whether he can squeeze the Green vote back or not
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,924
    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,357
    No change.

    We're heading for a reduced Con majority (but a Con majority none the less)

    1992 and 2005 all over again.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,752
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,019

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,516

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,207
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    The self-pitying notion of people who can't work is a notion utterly alien to most of the world.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 180
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    One of the big benefits of the system is that there is no incentive for school leavers to choose not to work and fall into a life of benefits.

    If you want to live off benefits for say 9 months you have to work the mandatory period before you get the benefits and then likely realise working is good, wages are better than benefits and you see that if you progress then you get even more wages as well as the social benefit of being around other working people all week rather than watching Netflix on your own at home all day!!

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,019

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,019

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    This 100%. At my kids' secondary school they do zero home economics. I think it is absolutely shocking.
    And Prince Willian learned to cook at Eton..... Hilarious, isn't it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited November 2
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    One of the big benefits of the system is that there is no incentive for school leavers to choose not to work and fall into a life of benefits.

    If you want to live off benefits for say 9 months you have to work the mandatory period before you get the benefits and then likely realise working is good, wages are better than benefits and you see that if you progress then you get even more wages as well as the social benefit of being around other working people all week rather than watching Netflix on your own at home all day!!

    Even in the UK you cannot claim JSA now if able bodied without having worked as an employee and made enough NI contributions first. Even then you can only claim JSA for 6 months.

    Otherwise you can only apply for Universal Credit.

    Though of course the rise of WFH means half of workers, certainly in offices are not around other people every day in person now anyway
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,407

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    I have a go-to recipe for doing risotto in the microwave. A delicious meal in about half an hour.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 4,839
    Just come across the Booker Prize shortlist:

    Anuk Arudpragasam/A Passage North - The book follows Krishan's journey as he travels across Sri Lanka to attend a family funeral and was been described by Jenny Bhatt on NPR as a "tender elegy" to those caught up in the country's civil war where an estimated 100,000 people were killed and 20,000 people remain missing.

    Damon Galgut/The Promise - The Promise, explores recent South African history through the wish of a white woman to leave a house to her black woman who had worked for her. Rebecca Jones from BBC News described it as "beautifully written with characters you come to care deeply about".

    Patricia Lockwood/No-one Is Talking About This - The stylistically experimental book explores human experiences on social media. Writing in The New York Times, Merve Emre praised the book for transforming "all that is ugly and cheap about online culture into an experience of sublimity".

    Nadifa Mohamed/The Fortune Men - While The Fortune Men is a novel, it is based on the true story of the wrongful murder conviction of Mahmood Mattan, the last man to be hanged in Wales in 1952

    Richard Powers/Bewilderment - In Bewilderment, Powers tells the story of astrobiologist Theo Byrne who is struggling to raise his son Robin after the death of his wife.

    Magge Shipstead/Great Circle - Maggie Shipstead's novel Great Circle weaves together the story of a trailblazing female aviator who disappeared in 1950 with that of a contemporary Hollywood star trying to make a film about her.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,752
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477
    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,207
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    It's a genuine safety net which is what ours was supposed to be.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 180
    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    One of the big benefits of the system is that there is no incentive for school leavers to choose not to work and fall into a life of benefits.

    If you want to live off benefits for say 9 months you have to work the mandatory period before you get the benefits and then likely realise working is good, wages are better than benefits and you see that if you progress then you get even more wages as well as the social benefit of being around other working people all week rather than watching Netflix on your own at home all day!!

    Even in the UK you cannot claim JSA now if able bodied without having worked for 6 months and made enough NI contributions.

    Otherwise you can only apply for Universal Credit
    Ah ok thanks - I have no idea about the UK benefits system obviously!!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,752
    Leon said:

    I am amazed by people - usually men of a certain age - who cannot cook

    I have older male relatives who are completely helpless in the kitchen. I don't get it. Cooking is healthy, soothing AND pleasurable. You can whip up delicious meals in 30 minutes, Jamie Oliver does not always lie

    Perplexing

    Jamie Oliver's meals are usually shite.

    On the flip side there's so many great home chefs on YouTube these days. One of my major reasons for learning Italian is so that I can fully appreciate Italian food and learn to cook like Italians do in Italy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,646
    GIN1138 said:

    No change.

    We're heading for a reduced Con majority (but a Con majority none the less)

    1992 and 2005 all over again.

    I missed the Con majority in 2005. Was it a bit like Corbyn's victory in 2017?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,128
    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    Swiss healthcare costs are some of the highest in the world.

    Swiss government spends $3,100/person vs. $3,400/person in UK.

    But then Swiss individuals pay $6,800/person on top of that privately vs. $900/person in the UK.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?end=2018&locations=CH-GB&start=2018&view=bar
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited November 2
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    Our unemployment benefits system ie JSA is also now wholly contributory for the able bodied based on NI contributions and also finite for 6 months.

    Otherwise we have UC which is similar to Swiss social assistance if you have few savings.

    The only countries which have only non contributory unemployment benefits now are Australia, New Zealand and Ireland
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,516

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    Partly.

    Mostly though they need to understand how to make simple, healthy, delicious food.

    For example, salmon, baked with butter or olive oil and salt in tin foil - maybe with some cooked broccoli - is as simple as it gets.

    Start there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    Remember that our Palmer is an unrepentant former communist. Despite the millions of bodies in the ground and countless ruined lives that stand as irrefutable evidence that communism in practice inflicts endless misery upon its unfortunate subjects.

    See him someone who is a lot keener on things in principle than on things in practice, and he becomes much easier to understand.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,752
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    One of the big benefits of the system is that there is no incentive for school leavers to choose not to work and fall into a life of benefits.

    If you want to live off benefits for say 9 months you have to work the mandatory period before you get the benefits and then likely realise working is good, wages are better than benefits and you see that if you progress then you get even more wages as well as the social benefit of being around other working people all week rather than watching Netflix on your own at home all day!!

    Even in the UK you cannot claim JSA now if able bodied without having worked for 6 months and made enough NI contributions.

    Otherwise you can only apply for Universal Credit
    Ah ok thanks - I have no idea about the UK benefits system obviously!!
    It's also a hilarious contradiction because UC is going to replace JSA soon and UC is (as the name suggests) a universal benefit that requires no contribution.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853
    Leon said:

    I am amazed by people - usually men of a certain age - who cannot cook

    I have older male relatives who are completely helpless in the kitchen. I don't get it. Cooking is healthy, soothing AND pleasurable. You can whip up delicious meals in 30 minutes, Jamie Oliver does not always lie

    Perplexing

    When you've worked a 12 hour day and you're exhausted, 30 minutes is too long.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,446
    The gender pronoun debate - people stating they’re he/him, she/her on their profile/CV etc… is it really that different from the time not so long ago where everyone was known as Mr, Mrs, Miss, or Master?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    I have a go-to recipe for doing risotto in the microwave. A delicious meal in about half an hour.
    Anything that has been in the microwave for half an hour will be cinders, certainly not edible.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853
    isam said:

    The gender pronoun debate - people stating they’re he/him, she/her on their profile/CV etc… is it really that different from the time not so long ago where everyone was known as Mr, Mrs, Miss, or Master?

    Very good point.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,516
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    Iraq was a catastrophic blunder. Worse than Suez if not Vietnam.

    Polluted the body politic and opened the floodgates to mass distrust in government and from there to QAnon etc.

    Just the other day I was reading some crypto “guru” explain that one could not trust fiat currency because it was “brought to you by the same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq”.
  • IanB2 said:

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    I have a go-to recipe for doing risotto in the microwave. A delicious meal in about half an hour.
    Anything that has been in the microwave for half an hour will be cinders, certainly not edible.
    Comprehension fail.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 3,858
    IanB2 said:

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    Remember that our Palmer is an unrepentant former communist. Despite the millions of bodies in the ground and countless ruined lives that stand as irrefutable evidence that communism in practice inflicts endless misery upon its unfortunate subjects.

    See him someone who is a lot keener on things in principle than on things in practice, and he becomes much easier to understand.
    I just picture him as Corbyn-lite - eating cold baked beans out of a can while he runs the photocopier at Labour party HQ.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477

    IanB2 said:

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    I have a go-to recipe for doing risotto in the microwave. A delicious meal in about half an hour.
    Anything that has been in the microwave for half an hour will be cinders, certainly not edible.
    Comprehension fail.
    Yet there’s often humour in looking at what people say, rather than what they meant to say ;)
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,944
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    Our unemployment benefits system ie JSA is also now wholly contributory for the able bodied based on NI contributions and also finite for 6 months.

    Otherwise we have UC which is similar to Swiss social assistance if you have few savings.

    The only countries which have only non contributory unemployment benefits now are Australia, New Zealand and Ireland
    I think it's also worth mentioning that the idea that somebody can choose not to work and just live on JSA is a myth. It's a pretty harsh regime. For those interested in reality rather than myths, the details are here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/jobseekers-allowance-sanctions-leaflet/jobseekers-allowance-sanctions-how-to-keep-your-benefit-payment

    The sofa-sitting, Netflix-watching idler is beloved of the tabloid press, but I think PB should be better than that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477
    edited November 2
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    There were two minutes between our respective posts. It’s quite a long article, and deducting the time it will have taken you to type your response, you only scanned it for a minute.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,752

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    Partly.

    Mostly though they need to understand how to make simple, healthy, delicious food.

    For example, salmon, baked with butter or olive oil and salt in tin foil - maybe with some cooked broccoli - is as simple as it gets.

    Start there.
    Yeah, I think a lot of people feel daunted by cooking with chicken, salmon is a good place to start, especially the cheaper shop bought farmed stuff. It's not the best but still better than anything in a ready meal. Have you ever tried broccoli in the microwave? Put it in a bowl, two or three tablespoons of water, 1 tablespoon of butter, some dried herbs and crush in two cloves of garlic and add a bit of salt. Mix it all up and then microwave for 2 mins, it creates an emulsion and makes for great and extremely easy broccoli.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,407

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    It's a genuine safety net which is what ours was supposed to be.
    I think we should be looking to move back in this direction. Our welfare system evolved to deal with the mass unemployment and long term unemployment associated with the profound economic shock of deindustrialisation in the 1970s-90s, which was magnified by the coincident working age population bulge of the baby boomer generation. In the mid 1980s you really couldn't get a job in many parts of the country, and so the alternative to long term unemployment benefits was starvation.
    Today's labour market is quite different, characterised by a shortage of workers. There is no reason for people to be long term unemployed, the system should be more generous but time limited. There are communities (eg the Welsh valleys) still blighted by long term ill health as a legacy of heavy industry and mass unemployment, perhaps what they need are properly funded localised programmes addressing those issues rather than just the drip feed of inadequate amounts of money via the welfare system. I don't want to come over all Norman Tebbit either, but perhaps if people can move to SE England from Poland for a job then they can move from Merthyr or Blackburn too. You don't have a right to a job on your doorstep.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    GIN1138 said:

    No change.

    We're heading for a reduced Con majority (but a Con majority none the less)

    1992 and 2005 all over again.

    Now don't be like that GIN1138 you'll ruin years of argument about whether the Tories will get a majority.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,128

    Leon said:

    I am amazed by people - usually men of a certain age - who cannot cook

    I have older male relatives who are completely helpless in the kitchen. I don't get it. Cooking is healthy, soothing AND pleasurable. You can whip up delicious meals in 30 minutes, Jamie Oliver does not always lie

    Perplexing

    When you've worked a 12 hour day and you're exhausted, 30 minutes is too long.
    Jamie's meals don't take 30 minutes either.

    My top tips would be a) slow cooker so you can eat as soon as you get home
    b) getting good at chopping things quickly (saves lots of time)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,894

    Just come across the Booker Prize shortlist:

    Anuk Arudpragasam/A Passage North - The book follows Krishan's journey as he travels across Sri Lanka to attend a family funeral and was been described by Jenny Bhatt on NPR as a "tender elegy" to those caught up in the country's civil war where an estimated 100,000 people were killed and 20,000 people remain missing.

    Damon Galgut/The Promise - The Promise, explores recent South African history through the wish of a white woman to leave a house to her black woman who had worked for her. Rebecca Jones from BBC News described it as "beautifully written with characters you come to care deeply about".

    Patricia Lockwood/No-one Is Talking About This - The stylistically experimental book explores human experiences on social media. Writing in The New York Times, Merve Emre praised the book for transforming "all that is ugly and cheap about online culture into an experience of sublimity".

    Nadifa Mohamed/The Fortune Men - While The Fortune Men is a novel, it is based on the true story of the wrongful murder conviction of Mahmood Mattan, the last man to be hanged in Wales in 1952

    Richard Powers/Bewilderment - In Bewilderment, Powers tells the story of astrobiologist Theo Byrne who is struggling to raise his son Robin after the death of his wife.

    Magge Shipstead/Great Circle - Maggie Shipstead's novel Great Circle weaves together the story of a trailblazing female aviator who disappeared in 1950 with that of a contemporary Hollywood star trying to make a film about her.

    Wokeness in literature is insane


    Check the short list for the T S Eliot poetry prize

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/oct/14/ts-eliot-prize-unveils-voices-of-the-moment-in-2021-shortlist
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,407
    IanB2 said:

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    I have a go-to recipe for doing risotto in the microwave. A delicious meal in about half an hour.
    Anything that has been in the microwave for half an hour will be cinders, certainly not edible.
    Er, you don't cook it all in one go, 30 mins is total prep/cooking time. There's a lot of water to be absorbed by the rice too. Believe me, it is delicious!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,207

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    Our unemployment benefits system ie JSA is also now wholly contributory for the able bodied based on NI contributions and also finite for 6 months.

    Otherwise we have UC which is similar to Swiss social assistance if you have few savings.

    The only countries which have only non contributory unemployment benefits now are Australia, New Zealand and Ireland
    I think it's also worth mentioning that the idea that somebody can choose not to work and just live on JSA is a myth. It's a pretty harsh regime. For those interested in reality rather than myths, the details are here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/jobseekers-allowance-sanctions-leaflet/jobseekers-allowance-sanctions-how-to-keep-your-benefit-payment

    The sofa-sitting, Netflix-watching idler is beloved of the tabloid press, but I think PB should be better than that.
    Its not that hard if its your way of life. There's plenty of people who know how to play the system.

    Those who are genuinely looking hard for work and are reliable are unlikely to be sanctioned. Those who are not remotely looking for work but know how to play the system are unlikely to be sanctioned too.

    The issue with sanctions is as many things in life they catch people struggling in the middle. People who are struggling, aren't au fait with the sanctions regime and are looking for work but possibly not as hard as they should are the ones most likely to be snagged rather than those genuinely out to live on JSA.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,432

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    It's a genuine safety net which is what ours was supposed to be.
    I think we should be looking to move back in this direction. Our welfare system evolved to deal with the mass unemployment and long term unemployment associated with the profound economic shock of deindustrialisation in the 1970s-90s, which was magnified by the coincident working age population bulge of the baby boomer generation. In the mid 1980s you really couldn't get a job in many parts of the country, and so the alternative to long term unemployment benefits was starvation.
    Today's labour market is quite different, characterised by a shortage of workers. There is no reason for people to be long term unemployed, the system should be more generous but time limited. There are communities (eg the Welsh valleys) still blighted by long term ill health as a legacy of heavy industry and mass unemployment, perhaps what they need are properly funded localised programmes addressing those issues rather than just the drip feed of inadequate amounts of money via the welfare system. I don't want to come over all Norman Tebbit either, but perhaps if people can move to SE England from Poland for a job then they can move from Merthyr or Blackburn too. You don't have a right to a job on your doorstep.
    You don't even have to move to SE England. Cardiff and Manchester are crying out for workers: they are not that far from Merthyr and Blackburn.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Interesting you post this (why now out of interest).

    It is absolutely the case and there have been several books on the subject already - Losing Small Wars/Ledwidge, Punching Below our Weight/Ledwidge, The Good War/Fairweather, A War of Choice/Fairweather, High Command/Christopher Elliott, A Million Bullets/Fergusson.

    The interesting timing is apropos the discussion of the NHS whereby the gross failings of the institution shouldn't be mixed up with the dedication and performance of the individuals.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477

    IanB2 said:

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    I have a go-to recipe for doing risotto in the microwave. A delicious meal in about half an hour.
    Anything that has been in the microwave for half an hour will be cinders, certainly not edible.
    Er, you don't cook it all in one go, 30 mins is total prep/cooking time. There's a lot of water to be absorbed by the rice too. Believe me, it is delicious!
    Why not post the recipe, and let us decide for ourselves?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,516
    edited November 2
    MaxPB said:

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    Partly.

    Mostly though they need to understand how to make simple, healthy, delicious food.

    For example, salmon, baked with butter or olive oil and salt in tin foil - maybe with some cooked broccoli - is as simple as it gets.

    Start there.
    Yeah, I think a lot of people feel daunted by cooking with chicken, salmon is a good place to start, especially the cheaper shop bought farmed stuff. It's not the best but still better than anything in a ready meal. Have you ever tried broccoli in the microwave? Put it in a bowl, two or three tablespoons of water, 1 tablespoon of butter, some dried herbs and crush in two cloves of garlic and add a bit of salt. Mix it all up and then microwave for 2 mins, it creates an emulsion and makes for great and extremely easy broccoli.
    I have not. I’ll give it a go tonight. I wonder if I can get some anchovy in there somehow.

    I’m obsessed with the idea that every vegetable has one or two “best ways” to prepare.

    People fear vegetables because usually - unless they are seasoned and/or cooked properly, which is NOT how we remember them from school canteens and plastic-covered salads - they are depressing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    There were two minutes between our respective posts. It’s quite a long article, and deducting the time it will have taken you to type your response, you only scanned it for a minute.
    Nope, I read it earlier this morning before you posted it.

    I agree on the points about the damage of army cuts and lack of support from government and better leadership needed from the top brass.

    I disagree Iraq was a defeat, it is now free of Saddam with an elected government
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,668
    edited November 2

    Leon said:

    I am amazed by people - usually men of a certain age - who cannot cook

    I have older male relatives who are completely helpless in the kitchen. I don't get it. Cooking is healthy, soothing AND pleasurable. You can whip up delicious meals in 30 minutes, Jamie Oliver does not always lie

    Perplexing

    When you've worked a 12 hour day and you're exhausted, 30 minutes is too long.
    I can also see that spending 30 minutes cooking for yourself so that you can sit down and stare at the wall for the 5 minutes it takes to eat the results seems like unnecessary effort.

    Are there any statistics on ready meal consumption by nation? I wonder what they are like in Sweden, with its large number of single households.

    They are also used a lot for elderly people would probably have got meals on wheels in the past (there's no such thing now in most places). The carer comes in and sticks the ready meal in the microwave.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477
    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Interesting you post this (why now out of interest).

    It is absolutely the case and there have been several books on the subject already - Losing Small Wars/Ledwidge, Punching Below our Weight/Ledwidge, The Good War/Fairweather, A War of Choice/Fairweather, High Command/Christopher Elliott, A Million Bullets/Fergusson.

    The interesting timing is apropos the discussion of the NHS whereby the gross failings of the institution shouldn't be mixed up with the dedication and performance of the individuals.
    That Unherd published the article just now surely answers your bracketed question?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    Iraq was a catastrophic blunder. Worse than Suez if not Vietnam.

    Polluted the body politic and opened the floodgates to mass distrust in government and from there to QAnon etc.

    Just the other day I was reading some crypto “guru” explain that one could not trust fiat currency because it was “brought to you by the same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq”.
    Saddam would still be in power if there had been no invasion
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,180

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    Partly.

    Mostly though they need to understand how to make simple, healthy, delicious food.

    For example, salmon, baked with butter or olive oil and salt in tin foil - maybe with some cooked broccoli - is as simple as it gets.

    Start there.
    Non-EU salt?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,894
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    I am amazed by people - usually men of a certain age - who cannot cook

    I have older male relatives who are completely helpless in the kitchen. I don't get it. Cooking is healthy, soothing AND pleasurable. You can whip up delicious meals in 30 minutes, Jamie Oliver does not always lie

    Perplexing

    Jamie Oliver's meals are usually shite.

    On the flip side there's so many great home chefs on YouTube these days. One of my major reasons for learning Italian is so that I can fully appreciate Italian food and learn to cook like Italians do in Italy.
    Jamie Oliver is very hit and miss

    My point was more that he is right in his conceits: you can whip up good food quickly and easily. 30 minutes. 15 minutes, even

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,207

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    It's a genuine safety net which is what ours was supposed to be.
    I think we should be looking to move back in this direction. Our welfare system evolved to deal with the mass unemployment and long term unemployment associated with the profound economic shock of deindustrialisation in the 1970s-90s, which was magnified by the coincident working age population bulge of the baby boomer generation. In the mid 1980s you really couldn't get a job in many parts of the country, and so the alternative to long term unemployment benefits was starvation.
    Today's labour market is quite different, characterised by a shortage of workers. There is no reason for people to be long term unemployed, the system should be more generous but time limited. There are communities (eg the Welsh valleys) still blighted by long term ill health as a legacy of heavy industry and mass unemployment, perhaps what they need are properly funded localised programmes addressing those issues rather than just the drip feed of inadequate amounts of money via the welfare system. I don't want to come over all Norman Tebbit either, but perhaps if people can move to SE England from Poland for a job then they can move from Merthyr or Blackburn too. You don't have a right to a job on your doorstep.
    Wow. I can completely agree with you. 😲
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,504
    All the pollsters seem to have very similar shares for the Conservatives (37-40%), with a much wider spread for Labour (31-37%) - and the difference seems to be Green share. YouGov has them up above the LibDems on around 10%, while most everyone else puts them behind the LibDems on 5-7%.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    MaxPB said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    One of the big benefits of the system is that there is no incentive for school leavers to choose not to work and fall into a life of benefits.

    If you want to live off benefits for say 9 months you have to work the mandatory period before you get the benefits and then likely realise working is good, wages are better than benefits and you see that if you progress then you get even more wages as well as the social benefit of being around other working people all week rather than watching Netflix on your own at home all day!!

    Even in the UK you cannot claim JSA now if able bodied without having worked for 6 months and made enough NI contributions.

    Otherwise you can only apply for Universal Credit
    Ah ok thanks - I have no idea about the UK benefits system obviously!!
    It's also a hilarious contradiction because UC is going to replace JSA soon and UC is (as the name suggests) a universal benefit that requires no contribution.
    Wrong.

    UC is only replacing income based JSA it is NOT replacing contributions based JSA which will stay based on NI contributions
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    Iraq was a catastrophic blunder. Worse than Suez if not Vietnam.

    Polluted the body politic and opened the floodgates to mass distrust in government and from there to QAnon etc.

    Just the other day I was reading some crypto “guru” explain that one could not trust fiat currency because it was “brought to you by the same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq”.
    Saddam would still be in power if there had been no invasion
    And millions of otherwise totally innocent people would still be alive.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,516

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    Partly.

    Mostly though they need to understand how to make simple, healthy, delicious food.

    For example, salmon, baked with butter or olive oil and salt in tin foil - maybe with some cooked broccoli - is as simple as it gets.

    Start there.
    Non-EU salt?
    I only use Maldon salt, which hopefully curries favour with HYUFD.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,516
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    Iraq was a catastrophic blunder. Worse than Suez if not Vietnam.

    Polluted the body politic and opened the floodgates to mass distrust in government and from there to QAnon etc.

    Just the other day I was reading some crypto “guru” explain that one could not trust fiat currency because it was “brought to you by the same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq”.
    Saddam would still be in power if there had been no invasion
    So?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 24,528
    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    Swiss healthcare costs are some of the highest in the world.

    Swiss government spends $3,100/person vs. $3,400/person in UK.

    But then Swiss individuals pay $6,800/person on top of that privately vs. $900/person in the UK.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?end=2018&locations=CH-GB&start=2018&view=bar
    Pretty meaningless if you don't look at it as a percentage of GDP. All told the Swiss spend 11.3% of their GDP on healthcare. Compared to 11.1% for France and 11.7% for Germany. The US spends 16.8%.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,676
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/02/modern-pentathlon-votes-to-ditch-horse-riding-after-tokyo-olympic-turmoil

    Modern pentathlon votes to ditch horse riding after Tokyo Olympic turmoil
    Riding set to be replaced by cycling to preserve Olympic status


    I think cycling is a little on the boring side. Maybe wall climbing would have been a fun alternative.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,504
    HYUFD said:

    At the moment it looks like a narrow Tory majority or a hung parliament.

    Whether Starmer can achieve the latter and get enough seats to become PM with SNP and LD support could depend on whether he can squeeze the Green vote back or not

    Normally, you'd expect the opposition to be at ahead at this stage of the parliament. Of course, the combination of Brexit and Covid has thrown off the usual yoyo-ing of parties shares, but if I were Boris I'd be pretty happy with these numbers.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,752

    MaxPB said:

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    Partly.

    Mostly though they need to understand how to make simple, healthy, delicious food.

    For example, salmon, baked with butter or olive oil and salt in tin foil - maybe with some cooked broccoli - is as simple as it gets.

    Start there.
    Yeah, I think a lot of people feel daunted by cooking with chicken, salmon is a good place to start, especially the cheaper shop bought farmed stuff. It's not the best but still better than anything in a ready meal. Have you ever tried broccoli in the microwave? Put it in a bowl, two or three tablespoons of water, 1 tablespoon of butter, some dried herbs and crush in two cloves of garlic and add a bit of salt. Mix it all up and then microwave for 2 mins, it creates an emulsion and makes for great and extremely easy broccoli.
    I have not. I’ll give it a go tonight. I wonder if I can get some anchovy in there somehow.

    I’m obsessed with the idea that every vegetable has one or two “best ways” to prepare.

    People fear vegetables because usually - unless they are seasoned and/or cooked properly, which is NOT how we remember them from school canteens and plastic-covered salads - they are depressing.
    You probably could maybe mix into the butter, forgot to add, cover the bowl before microwaving, won't get the steam action otherwise.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,407

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    It's a genuine safety net which is what ours was supposed to be.
    I think we should be looking to move back in this direction. Our welfare system evolved to deal with the mass unemployment and long term unemployment associated with the profound economic shock of deindustrialisation in the 1970s-90s, which was magnified by the coincident working age population bulge of the baby boomer generation. In the mid 1980s you really couldn't get a job in many parts of the country, and so the alternative to long term unemployment benefits was starvation.
    Today's labour market is quite different, characterised by a shortage of workers. There is no reason for people to be long term unemployed, the system should be more generous but time limited. There are communities (eg the Welsh valleys) still blighted by long term ill health as a legacy of heavy industry and mass unemployment, perhaps what they need are properly funded localised programmes addressing those issues rather than just the drip feed of inadequate amounts of money via the welfare system. I don't want to come over all Norman Tebbit either, but perhaps if people can move to SE England from Poland for a job then they can move from Merthyr or Blackburn too. You don't have a right to a job on your doorstep.
    Wow. I can completely agree with you. 😲
    Oh dear! 😉
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment it looks like a narrow Tory majority or a hung parliament.

    Whether Starmer can achieve the latter and get enough seats to become PM with SNP and LD support could depend on whether he can squeeze the Green vote back or not

    Normally, you'd expect the opposition to be at ahead at this stage of the parliament. Of course, the combination of Brexit and Covid has thrown off the usual yoyo-ing of parties shares, but if I were Boris I'd be pretty happy with these numbers.
    Ever since 2010, my view is that sentences that start with “Normally,” don’t carry the weight that they once did.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 779
    Sky News
    @SkyNews
    ·
    42m
    Shares in Flutter Entertainment take a beating after it reveals that punters got the better of it during October, forcing the firm to downgrade profit expectations for the year

    https://news.sky.com/story/paddy-power-owner-reveals-16360m-hit-from-run-of-customer-friendly-sports-betting-results-12457658?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited November 2
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    Iraq was a catastrophic blunder. Worse than Suez if not Vietnam.

    Polluted the body politic and opened the floodgates to mass distrust in government and from there to QAnon etc.

    Just the other day I was reading some crypto “guru” explain that one could not trust fiat currency because it was “brought to you by the same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq”.
    Saddam would still be in power if there had been no invasion
    And millions of otherwise totally innocent people would still be alive.
    Not millions and Saddam committed mass genocide and killed hundreds of thousands of people himself in his wars.

    Many of his supporters linked with ISIS and formed an Iraqi branch when ISIS emerged in the Syrian civil war against Assad.

    The present Iraqi government is far better than Saddam's
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,207
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment it looks like a narrow Tory majority or a hung parliament.

    Whether Starmer can achieve the latter and get enough seats to become PM with SNP and LD support could depend on whether he can squeeze the Green vote back or not

    Normally, you'd expect the opposition to be at ahead at this stage of the parliament. Of course, the combination of Brexit and Covid has thrown off the usual yoyo-ing of parties shares, but if I were Boris I'd be pretty happy with these numbers.
    Exactly. We should expect some swingback to the government at the election based on historical trends.

    Just because the swingaway hasn't been enough to put Labour into the lead doesn't mean there won't be any swingback. There has been some swing to Labour as your dad notes in the OP, so no reason that can't be comed with swingback is there?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,128

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    Swiss healthcare costs are some of the highest in the world.

    Swiss government spends $3,100/person vs. $3,400/person in UK.

    But then Swiss individuals pay $6,800/person on top of that privately vs. $900/person in the UK.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?end=2018&locations=CH-GB&start=2018&view=bar
    Pretty meaningless if you don't look at it as a percentage of GDP. All told the Swiss spend 11.3% of their GDP on healthcare. Compared to 11.1% for France and 11.7% for Germany. The US spends 16.8%.
    The key thing is that Switzerland spends a lot more than the UK.
    The figures I have are 11.9% of GDP vs 10.0% for UK.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?locations=CH-GB-DE-FR
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    Iraq was a catastrophic blunder. Worse than Suez if not Vietnam.

    Polluted the body politic and opened the floodgates to mass distrust in government and from there to QAnon etc.

    Just the other day I was reading some crypto “guru” explain that one could not trust fiat currency because it was “brought to you by the same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq”.
    Saddam would still be in power if there had been no invasion
    And millions of otherwise totally innocent people would still be alive.
    Not millions and Saddam committed mass genocide and killed hundreds of thousands of people himself.

    Many of his supporters linked with ISIS and formed an Iraqi branch when ISIS emerged in the Syrian civil war against Assad.

    The present Iraqi government is far better than Saddam's
    http://web.mit.edu/humancostiraq/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    Partly.

    Mostly though they need to understand how to make simple, healthy, delicious food.

    For example, salmon, baked with butter or olive oil and salt in tin foil - maybe with some cooked broccoli - is as simple as it gets.

    Start there.
    No let's not start there. Farmed salmon, very accessible is dreadful on very many levels go crazy on google if you want. Second of all, let's take someone doing a manual job. Salmon and some broccoli ain't gonna swing it calore-wise for that person. They will want more carbs. And thirdly, it is the mindset as much as anything and for cash poor, time poor people cutting up some broccoli (bought where/when) is simply a stretch.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,207
    JBriskin3 said:

    Sky News
    @SkyNews
    ·
    42m
    Shares in Flutter Entertainment take a beating after it reveals that punters got the better of it during October, forcing the firm to downgrade profit expectations for the year

    https://news.sky.com/story/paddy-power-owner-reveals-16360m-hit-from-run-of-customer-friendly-sports-betting-results-12457658?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Oh they're only going to make one billion and two hundred and seventy million pounds profit from punters, instead of the one billion and three hundred and seventy million pounds of profit they were expecting to make?

    However are they going to cope? Should we put out a collection tray for them?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,894
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    Iraq was a catastrophic blunder. Worse than Suez if not Vietnam.

    Polluted the body politic and opened the floodgates to mass distrust in government and from there to QAnon etc.

    Just the other day I was reading some crypto “guru” explain that one could not trust fiat currency because it was “brought to you by the same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq”.
    Saddam would still be in power if there had been no invasion
    Why has someone flagged this as Off Topic? HYUFD is making a perfectly sensible point, in response to someone else, and doing it in a polite way

    This Off Topic crap is quite annoying. May I humble suggest the moderators ban, for life, anyone that does it
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,407
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    I have a go-to recipe for doing risotto in the microwave. A delicious meal in about half an hour.
    Anything that has been in the microwave for half an hour will be cinders, certainly not edible.
    Er, you don't cook it all in one go, 30 mins is total prep/cooking time. There's a lot of water to be absorbed by the rice too. Believe me, it is delicious!
    Why not post the recipe, and let us decide for ourselves?
    Cut up a leak and a couple of cloves of garlic, add about 1oz butter and some olive oil, put in a large glass bowl, cover and microwave on high for 5 mins. Meanwhile make 1.5 pints stock with boiling water. Stir 10oz risotto rice into bowl to get it well covered with oil and butter, add stock and black pepper, cook on high uncovered for 10 minutes. Meanwhile slice some mushrooms, eg about 6 or 8, after 10 minutes add to bowl, stir briefly and cook another 6 minutes on high. Stir in some grated parmesan and leave for a few minutes before serving. The recipe is in a cookbook we have (I think bbc good food) but can't find it online. Plenty of variations are possible.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,516

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    It's a genuine safety net which is what ours was supposed to be.
    I think we should be looking to move back in this direction. Our welfare system evolved to deal with the mass unemployment and long term unemployment associated with the profound economic shock of deindustrialisation in the 1970s-90s, which was magnified by the coincident working age population bulge of the baby boomer generation. In the mid 1980s you really couldn't get a job in many parts of the country, and so the alternative to long term unemployment benefits was starvation.
    Today's labour market is quite different, characterised by a shortage of workers. There is no reason for people to be long term unemployed, the system should be more generous but time limited. There are communities (eg the Welsh valleys) still blighted by long term ill health as a legacy of heavy industry and mass unemployment, perhaps what they need are properly funded localised programmes addressing those issues rather than just the drip feed of inadequate amounts of money via the welfare system. I don't want to come over all Norman Tebbit either, but perhaps if people can move to SE England from Poland for a job then they can move from Merthyr or Blackburn too. You don't have a right to a job on your doorstep.
    Wow. I can completely agree with you. 😲
    Oh dear! 😉
    It would be interesting to really understand the micro-factors that prevent people moving from Merthyr to Cardiff (or London) for work.

    The U.K. is quite weird in that very poor, deprived areas, exist cheek by jowl with richer ones - and never the twain shall meet.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 24,528
    edited November 2
    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Interesting you post this (why now out of interest).

    It is absolutely the case and there have been several books on the subject already - Losing Small Wars/Ledwidge, Punching Below our Weight/Ledwidge, The Good War/Fairweather, A War of Choice/Fairweather, High Command/Christopher Elliott, A Million Bullets/Fergusson.

    The interesting timing is apropos the discussion of the NHS whereby the gross failings of the institution shouldn't be mixed up with the dedication and performance of the individuals.
    The British army seem to be pretty good at making some really bad tactical decisions. Much of the time they are either lucky or skilful enough to get themselves out of it but too often they are not.

    During lockdown I watched a series of talks and discussions by military men hosted by the National Army Museum. One of these was between General Sir Michael Rose (Command, 22 SAS) and Major General Julian Thompson (Command, as a Brigadier, 3 Commando Brigade) on the Falklands land campaign and what went wrong. It is really scary understanding how many complete clusters there were during that campaign far beyond those that cost lives. Of course the old adage of no plan surviving first contact with the enemy has to be borne in mind but they were pretty scathing about some of the decisions being made at Northwood 8,000 miles away.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Interesting you post this (why now out of interest).

    It is absolutely the case and there have been several books on the subject already - Losing Small Wars/Ledwidge, Punching Below our Weight/Ledwidge, The Good War/Fairweather, A War of Choice/Fairweather, High Command/Christopher Elliott, A Million Bullets/Fergusson.

    The interesting timing is apropos the discussion of the NHS whereby the gross failings of the institution shouldn't be mixed up with the dedication and performance of the individuals.
    That Unherd published the article just now surely answers your bracketed question?
    The politicians wanted an answer from the generals and the generals, in a use it or lose it mindset, agreed.

    And thus we had Basra and the self-licking lollipops of Afghan.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,752
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    Swiss healthcare costs are some of the highest in the world.

    Swiss government spends $3,100/person vs. $3,400/person in UK.

    But then Swiss individuals pay $6,800/person on top of that privately vs. $900/person in the UK.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?end=2018&locations=CH-GB&start=2018&view=bar
    Pretty meaningless if you don't look at it as a percentage of GDP. All told the Swiss spend 11.3% of their GDP on healthcare. Compared to 11.1% for France and 11.7% for Germany. The US spends 16.8%.
    The key thing is that Switzerland spends a lot more than the UK.
    The figures I have are 11.9% of GDP vs 10.0% for UK.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?locations=CH-GB-DE-FR
    The point is that in Switzerland middle income people aren't disincentivised from purchasing private healthcare (indeed, it is a requirement) which means the state spending is targeted towards those who need it and is very high quality. Do you really believe that if the NHS got 12% of GDP we'd suddenly have Swiss standard healthcare? I've experienced both systems and the gap is, IMO, unbridgeable because the problem isn't money.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,319
    edited November 2
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    It's a very rich and ordered country, and quite a small one, so I can imagine they don't have the poverty issues we do, but there must be people there who, for one reason or another, can't work, or can only work part/time, and who haven't racked up the contributions they need to access state support. Just wondering what happens with such people in a so-called "contributory" benefits system. I've always kind of assumed it's not the whole story. That if you truly haven't a job and have no savings, then regardless of age or employment history, or your attitude, the state will help you out. Or at least there'll be a mechanism for it. In the prosperous West, I mean, of which Switzerland is very much a part. I see hyufd mentioning "emergency support" so maybe that's it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,019

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    Partly.

    Mostly though they need to understand how to make simple, healthy, delicious food.

    For example, salmon, baked with butter or olive oil and salt in tin foil - maybe with some cooked broccoli - is as simple as it gets.

    Start there.
    Yup

    The cheat is that the salmon comes from the frozen section at Aldi.

    Or get them to put it in an oven bag with some garlic butter at the fresh counter.....

    Yes, wild Alaskan salmon that I have personally taken from the paws of a grizzly bear I arm-wrestled for it, and then killed and dressed (the salmon, that is) myself *may* be better.....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,516
    TOPPING said:

    FPT re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.

    Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.

    A major issue is that many people who don't cook have retreated into a zone of "Cooking means cooking from scratch. Too complicated and I don't have the time."

    Start by cheating. I did. Buy sauce in jars, use cans. Some cooking is better than none. Progress where you can and where you have time.

    One thing that is completely left out of the cooking books seems to be cooking in bulk, home freezing etc. The myth that every meal has to be 100% hand made and eaten just after cooking......
    Imagine if every kid was taught how to make 10 simple, healthy meals.
    Th problem is time - what people need to be taught, as well, is how to do quick cheats for cooking.
    Partly.

    Mostly though they need to understand how to make simple, healthy, delicious food.

    For example, salmon, baked with butter or olive oil and salt in tin foil - maybe with some cooked broccoli - is as simple as it gets.

    Start there.
    No let's not start there. Farmed salmon, very accessible is dreadful on very many levels go crazy on google if you want. Second of all, let's take someone doing a manual job. Salmon and some broccoli ain't gonna swing it calore-wise for that person. They will want more carbs. And thirdly, it is the mindset as much as anything and for cash poor, time poor people cutting up some broccoli (bought where/when) is simply a stretch.
    Farmed salmon is fine. Don’t let the best be the enemy of the better.

    If you want carbs, add toast to keep it really, really simple.

    If you really can’t cut broccoli (and can’t even find the time to buy it) then there is probably no saving you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    Iraq was a catastrophic blunder. Worse than Suez if not Vietnam.

    Polluted the body politic and opened the floodgates to mass distrust in government and from there to QAnon etc.

    Just the other day I was reading some crypto “guru” explain that one could not trust fiat currency because it was “brought to you by the same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq”.
    Saddam would still be in power if there had been no invasion
    Why has someone flagged this as Off Topic? HYUFD is making a perfectly sensible point, in response to someone else, and doing it in a polite way

    This Off Topic crap is quite annoying. May I humble suggest the moderators ban, for life, anyone that does it
    Exactly, there is only so much analysis of October opinion polls and Andy Burnham one can do in one day
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,432
    We were mocking Manchester United the other day for flying from Manchester to East Midlands. This is fun too: Ursula VdL's 'air taxi' habit, which included a flight from Vienna to Bratislava: like flying from Manchester to Liverpool or Edinburgh to Glasgow.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/11/02/revealed-air-miles-ursula-used-private-jet-travel-just-31-miles/
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,407
    Leon said:

    Just come across the Booker Prize shortlist:

    Anuk Arudpragasam/A Passage North - The book follows Krishan's journey as he travels across Sri Lanka to attend a family funeral and was been described by Jenny Bhatt on NPR as a "tender elegy" to those caught up in the country's civil war where an estimated 100,000 people were killed and 20,000 people remain missing.

    Damon Galgut/The Promise - The Promise, explores recent South African history through the wish of a white woman to leave a house to her black woman who had worked for her. Rebecca Jones from BBC News described it as "beautifully written with characters you come to care deeply about".

    Patricia Lockwood/No-one Is Talking About This - The stylistically experimental book explores human experiences on social media. Writing in The New York Times, Merve Emre praised the book for transforming "all that is ugly and cheap about online culture into an experience of sublimity".

    Nadifa Mohamed/The Fortune Men - While The Fortune Men is a novel, it is based on the true story of the wrongful murder conviction of Mahmood Mattan, the last man to be hanged in Wales in 1952

    Richard Powers/Bewilderment - In Bewilderment, Powers tells the story of astrobiologist Theo Byrne who is struggling to raise his son Robin after the death of his wife.

    Magge Shipstead/Great Circle - Maggie Shipstead's novel Great Circle weaves together the story of a trailblazing female aviator who disappeared in 1950 with that of a contemporary Hollywood star trying to make a film about her.

    Wokeness in literature is insane


    Check the short list for the T S Eliot poetry prize

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/oct/14/ts-eliot-prize-unveils-voices-of-the-moment-in-2021-shortlist
    Interesting how people perceive things differently. I was thinking what a nice and varied list of interesting sounding books that was. It never crossed my mind that they were "woke".
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889

    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Interesting you post this (why now out of interest).

    It is absolutely the case and there have been several books on the subject already - Losing Small Wars/Ledwidge, Punching Below our Weight/Ledwidge, The Good War/Fairweather, A War of Choice/Fairweather, High Command/Christopher Elliott, A Million Bullets/Fergusson.

    The interesting timing is apropos the discussion of the NHS whereby the gross failings of the institution shouldn't be mixed up with the dedication and performance of the individuals.
    The British army seem to be pretty good at making some really bad tactical decisions. Much of the time they are either lucky or skilful enough to get themselves out of it but too often they are not.

    During lockdown I watched a series of talks and discussions by military men hosted by the National Army Museum. One of these was between General Sir Michael Rose (Command, 22 SAS) and Major General Julian Thompson (Command, as a Brigadier, 3 Commando Brigade) on the Falklands land campaign and what went wrong. It is really scary understanding how many complete clusters there were during that campaign far beyond those that cost lives. Of course the old adage of no plan surviving first contact with the enemy has to be borne in mind but they were pretty scathing about some of the decisions being made at Northwood 8,000 miles away.
    Yep. That was a pretty scary campaign in terms of outcomes. Max Hastings and Simon Jenkins wrote a good book about it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,516

    Leon said:

    Just come across the Booker Prize shortlist:

    Anuk Arudpragasam/A Passage North - The book follows Krishan's journey as he travels across Sri Lanka to attend a family funeral and was been described by Jenny Bhatt on NPR as a "tender elegy" to those caught up in the country's civil war where an estimated 100,000 people were killed and 20,000 people remain missing.

    Damon Galgut/The Promise - The Promise, explores recent South African history through the wish of a white woman to leave a house to her black woman who had worked for her. Rebecca Jones from BBC News described it as "beautifully written with characters you come to care deeply about".

    Patricia Lockwood/No-one Is Talking About This - The stylistically experimental book explores human experiences on social media. Writing in The New York Times, Merve Emre praised the book for transforming "all that is ugly and cheap about online culture into an experience of sublimity".

    Nadifa Mohamed/The Fortune Men - While The Fortune Men is a novel, it is based on the true story of the wrongful murder conviction of Mahmood Mattan, the last man to be hanged in Wales in 1952

    Richard Powers/Bewilderment - In Bewilderment, Powers tells the story of astrobiologist Theo Byrne who is struggling to raise his son Robin after the death of his wife.

    Magge Shipstead/Great Circle - Maggie Shipstead's novel Great Circle weaves together the story of a trailblazing female aviator who disappeared in 1950 with that of a contemporary Hollywood star trying to make a film about her.

    Wokeness in literature is insane


    Check the short list for the T S Eliot poetry prize

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/oct/14/ts-eliot-prize-unveils-voices-of-the-moment-in-2021-shortlist
    Interesting how people perceive things differently. I was thinking what a nice and varied list of interesting sounding books that was. It never crossed my mind that they were "woke".
    Oh for the days of VS Naipaul, Saul Bellow, Ralph Ellison, Margaret Drabble and Doris Lessing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,454
    edited November 2

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    Iraq was a catastrophic blunder. Worse than Suez if not Vietnam.

    Polluted the body politic and opened the floodgates to mass distrust in government and from there to QAnon etc.

    Just the other day I was reading some crypto “guru” explain that one could not trust fiat currency because it was “brought to you by the same people who said there were WMDs in Iraq”.
    Saddam would still be in power if there had been no invasion
    So?
    My late tortoise would have given rise to a dynasty of sentient chelonians if someone hadn't picked it up and exported it to a pet shop in distant Scotland.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,639

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sky News
    @SkyNews
    ·
    42m
    Shares in Flutter Entertainment take a beating after it reveals that punters got the better of it during October, forcing the firm to downgrade profit expectations for the year

    https://news.sky.com/story/paddy-power-owner-reveals-16360m-hit-from-run-of-customer-friendly-sports-betting-results-12457658?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Oh they're only going to make one billion and two hundred and seventy million pounds profit from punters, instead of the one billion and three hundred and seventy million pounds of profit they were expecting to make?

    However are they going to cope? Should we put out a collection tray for them?
    Perhaps they should open a market on whether there will be a Labour lead by the end of the year?

    *innocent face*
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,019
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Interesting you post this (why now out of interest).

    It is absolutely the case and there have been several books on the subject already - Losing Small Wars/Ledwidge, Punching Below our Weight/Ledwidge, The Good War/Fairweather, A War of Choice/Fairweather, High Command/Christopher Elliott, A Million Bullets/Fergusson.

    The interesting timing is apropos the discussion of the NHS whereby the gross failings of the institution shouldn't be mixed up with the dedication and performance of the individuals.
    The British army seem to be pretty good at making some really bad tactical decisions. Much of the time they are either lucky or skilful enough to get themselves out of it but too often they are not.

    During lockdown I watched a series of talks and discussions by military men hosted by the National Army Museum. One of these was between General Sir Michael Rose (Command, 22 SAS) and Major General Julian Thompson (Command, as a Brigadier, 3 Commando Brigade) on the Falklands land campaign and what went wrong. It is really scary understanding how many complete clusters there were during that campaign far beyond those that cost lives. Of course the old adage of no plan surviving first contact with the enemy has to be borne in mind but they were pretty scathing about some of the decisions being made at Northwood 8,000 miles away.
    Yep. That was a pretty scary campaign in terms of outcomes. Max Hastings and Simon Jenkins wrote a good book about it.
    What I find interesting is that the obvious story of what happened with the Belgrano has not been presented, as yet.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 779

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sky News
    @SkyNews
    ·
    42m
    Shares in Flutter Entertainment take a beating after it reveals that punters got the better of it during October, forcing the firm to downgrade profit expectations for the year

    https://news.sky.com/story/paddy-power-owner-reveals-16360m-hit-from-run-of-customer-friendly-sports-betting-results-12457658?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

    Oh they're only going to make one billion and two hundred and seventy million pounds profit from punters, instead of the one billion and three hundred and seventy million pounds of profit they were expecting to make?

    However are they going to cope? Should we put out a collection tray for them?
    It was nice of betfair to cut their commission from 5pc to 3pc - but I don't have spare cash to gamble with nowadays.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,893
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    In Iraq, the initial capture and occupation of Basra, entered into with soft hats and the self-congratulatory confidence of an Army that believed it led the world in peacekeeping and counterinsurgency, ended in a humiliating negotiated withdrawal of British forces to the edge of the city, where, pinned down by constant bombardment by the Shia militias who now ran the city, they lost all capacity to exert their influence.

    The Americans, distinctly unimpressed at the failure of the British officers, were forced to help Iraqi forces retake the city in 2008’s Charge of the Knights operation, a humiliation for Britain. “This damaged the reputation of British forces with the US and the Iraqis and inflicted major dents in British military self-confidence,” Barry notes. Akam is less stoic, describing it as ”an acute and lasting humiliation to the British Army”, which “will linger and follow the troops halfway around the world to Afghanistan”.

    Barry observes: “The US government’s decision to invade Iraq must stand as the worst military decision of the 21st century. It was a military strategic folly on a level equal to that of Napoleon’s 1812 attack on Russia and Hitler’s 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.” The failure, then, was ultimately a political one, of British politicians blindly following their American patrons into unwinnable wars.

    Perhaps the Army’s capacity to win the next war, like the British state’s to weather the next crisis, would be better served by generals finding the courage, when necessary, to tell politicians that some things simply can’t, or shouldn’t be done.

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-humiliation-of-the-british-army/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=327828405e&mc_eid=836634e34b

    Yes the army needs to learn lessons from Basra.

    However I disagree with the conclusion, Iraq is now free of Saddam and Iraqis elect their own government
    There were two minutes between our respective posts. It’s quite a long article, and deducting the time it will have taken you to type your response, you only scanned it for a minute.
    Nope, I read it earlier this morning before you posted it.

    I agree on the points about the damage of army cuts and lack of support from government and better leadership needed from the top brass.

    I disagree Iraq was a defeat, it is now free of Saddam with an elected government
    I was there and, once we'd got over the euphoria of the Scots Dragoons setting the library on fire, it didn't feel like winning.

    Although the British forces were compulsive thieves we were less rapey than the Americans and Australians so take pride in that.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,793
    Why couldn't the climate summit have been conducted online?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,407

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    The NHS is meh.

    I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.

    I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.

    France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.

    We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.

    Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
    What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
    They get whatever job they can. There's not really a concept of "can't work". At least not in my experience of living there. The jobs all pay enough that there really isn't very much of a "can't work" attitude. In terms of healthcare there is a provision for low income people but it's a subsidy. Unemployment in Switzerland is mostly incidental rather than structural. They also don't have in working benefits, no housing benefit and generally a very tiny welfare state. Retirement saving is done on an individual basis too and there really isn't a way to avoid it.
    Unemployment benefits in Switzerland are more generous than JSA here ie 70% of the average wage earned in the year before you lost your job, 80% if you have children.

    You can claim for 260 days if you have worked and contributed for the previous 12 months, for 400 days after 18 months.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/without-work_who-can-collect-swiss-unemployment-benefits-/45548988#:~:text=How much will I get?&text=The unemployment benefits usually amount,monthly wages is CHF12,350.

    Even if you are still not in work after that you can still claim emergency assistance and welfare.

    Those in receipt of social assistance also get their housing costs covered
    Yes, it's a wholly contributory system that is time limited. It's generous but finite.
    It's a genuine safety net which is what ours was supposed to be.
    I think we should be looking to move back in this direction. Our welfare system evolved to deal with the mass unemployment and long term unemployment associated with the profound economic shock of deindustrialisation in the 1970s-90s, which was magnified by the coincident working age population bulge of the baby boomer generation. In the mid 1980s you really couldn't get a job in many parts of the country, and so the alternative to long term unemployment benefits was starvation.
    Today's labour market is quite different, characterised by a shortage of workers. There is no reason for people to be long term unemployed, the system should be more generous but time limited. There are communities (eg the Welsh valleys) still blighted by long term ill health as a legacy of heavy industry and mass unemployment, perhaps what they need are properly funded localised programmes addressing those issues rather than just the drip feed of inadequate amounts of money via the welfare system. I don't want to come over all Norman Tebbit either, but perhaps if people can move to SE England from Poland for a job then they can move from Merthyr or Blackburn too. You don't have a right to a job on your doorstep.
    Wow. I can completely agree with you. 😲
    Oh dear! 😉
    It would be interesting to really understand the micro-factors that prevent people moving from Merthyr to Cardiff (or London) for work.

    The U.K. is quite weird in that very poor, deprived areas, exist cheek by jowl with richer ones - and never the twain shall meet.
    It's an attitude I struggle to understand too, since I have worked overseas twice and live hundreds of miles (and in a different country) from where I was born. Of course those kinds of moves are easier for well paid professional jobs - everything is easier with money.
This discussion has been closed.