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Ipsos-MORI chart of latest referendum phone poll showing remain with 8% lead pic.twitter.com/2nDahRcxE3
Comments
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Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.0 -
A proud member of the PC master race?JosiasJessop said:
Thanks. I'm not up on the current gen of consoles.MaxPB said:
Well I think that's where the "double PS4" idea comes in. They could, theoretically, make the new PS4 able to churn out double the framerate of existing games without changing the baseline power level for development. Those who want the premier VR/4k experience could get the new PS4, those who just want to play in 1080p can stick withtue current one. The actual PS4 architecture is very forwards thinking, I remember working on one of the launch games for it and the designers basically had to guess where they thought computing was headed and the bet the house on asynchronous compute, lo and behold D3D12 includes asynch as a base feature. In that sense the PS4 has the architecture to go toe to toe with the best PC set ups, it just doesn't have the grunt, the double PS4 idea makes sense in that light too.JosiasJessop said:
VR is very demanding, especially if you want a good game sitting underneath it. Could it be they realise that their VR experience on the existing PS4 might not be that good due to lack of grunt, and thereforeMaxPB said:
Yeah, I saw the WSJ article over the weekend and had to do a double take. I would be very, very surprised to see a half-step console release. The whole idea behind a console being a closed system means you really shouldn't have them and the industry is littered with half-step failures. I still think it will be a PS4 with the same basic hardware, a bigger hard drive, a 4K Blu-ray drive and HDMI 2.0 port with the
The other theory is that they are going to have a "double PS4" with a new APU with exactly double the current power nit is the benchmark and the new one is just there for people who want to run at higher resolutions but with no actual advantage in terms of development for a higher spec.
As others have noted, not really a blow as such. Despite being a. Leaver I'd like him to stay on as PM if he could, I just don't think he will be able to even if he doesn't resign, so he may as well resign. Like with the IndyRef, I just don't believe him when he says he doesn't plan to resign, so that would also impact how I responded to such a question.TheScreamingEagles said:Almost half the public rejects David Cameron’s claim that he can stay on as Prime Minister if he loses the European Union referendum, an exclusive poll reveals today.
In a new blow to the Prime Minister, Ipsos MORI found 48 per cent think he should resign if he fails in his campaign to keep Britain in the EU. Only 44 per cent thought Mr Cameron could continue as PM.
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He may well be best when the pressure is on, but face the pressure too many times and even someone good under it will get burned.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.0 -
I actually think Dave is going to step back from the campaign after his comments about "thinking things over". He can see how much damage he is doing to the party and to our electoral hopes for 2020 by being the front of the Remain campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.0 -
Interestingly, the two sets of figures (QA and QA-B combined) give the same result once you eliminate Don't Knows/Undecided/Won't vote: 54.4% Remain, 45.6% Leave0
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"REMAIN lead down to 8%"
Down from what?0 -
18%. But you can't compare last month's figure because of the major methodology change.FrancisUrquhart said:"REMAIN lead down to 8%"
Down from what?0 -
Yes, there doesn't seem to be much evidence that the DKs will break disproportionately to Remain. However, we saw in the SIndy that on polling day the final result had 90% of DKs breaking to No.Richard_Nabavi said:Interestingly, the two sets of figures (QA and QA-B combined) give the same result once you eliminate Don't Knows/Undecided/Won't vote: 54.4% Remain, 45.6% Leave
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Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.0 -
The pivotal moment in the Indyref was when that YouGov poll put Yes ahead, it changed the narrative and made Independence more real.MaxPB said:
I actually think Dave is going to step back from the campaign after his comments about "thinking things over". He can see how much damage he is doing to the party and to our electoral hopes for 2020 by being the front of the Remain campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
That focussed the minds of their opponents and kinda put the SNP in the bind.
Leave will be asked, so on present trends, you're on course to win, so what does Brexit mean, we might get Boris flip flopping again, EEA, and no change in immigration etc, which might put off Leave voters.0 -
Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...0
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The hounds of hell will be released from 9th May onwards.Plato_Says said:Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
So we are told.0 -
Oh yes. And eBay is for the young.FrancisUrquhart said:
Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
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WTF....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513434/Hijacked-passenger-plane-makes-emergency-landin-Cyprus.html
I am going to blow this plane up....
Oh cool, you have one of those suicide vest thingies....do you mind if I take a selfie?0 -
This is merely the appetising hors d'oeuvre from Remain.Casino_Royale said:
The hounds of hell will be released from 9th May onwards.Plato_Says said:Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
So we are told.
Today's Project Fear from Leave is an indication of where this fight is going.0 -
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
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On the other hand we might get a new "Vow" that Dave quickly cooks up with the EU in order to sway late DKs to Remain and soft-leavers. I agree that Remain holds the stronger hand.TheScreamingEagles said:
The pivotal moment in the Indyref was when that YouGov poll put Yes ahead, it changed the narrative and made Independence more real.MaxPB said:
I actually think Dave is going to step back from the campaign after his comments about "thinking things over". He can see how much damage he is doing to the party and to our electoral hopes for 2020 by being the front of the Remain campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
That focussed the minds of their opponents and kinda put the SNP in the bind.
Leave will be asked, so on present trends, you're on course to win, so what does Brexit mean, we might get Boris flip flopping again, EEA, and no change in immigration etc, which might put off Leave voters.0 -
Stunned.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
It is REMAIN that should be very worried if after weeks of having the full weight of the Government communications machine behind it and a fragmented LEAVE campaign, by rights REMAIN should have a commanding lead. Instead having used almost every conceivable attack line, the trend in the polls has moved towards LEAVE and IMHO LEAVE now has a small lead. A quite remarkable position.
We also have Dave receiving some of his worst personal ratings in months and delivering a lead for Corbyn in one poll.
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Nah Dave should retire and join Men in Black , I'm beginning to think he just loves the pressure.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.0 -
Are you saying these journos are wrong?Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
https://twitter.com/e_casalicchio/status/714758667090919424
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/7147584992348897280 -
Young people rarely vote.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
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YesFrancisUrquhart said:
Are you saying this journo is wrong?Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
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Yes, it was a case of Morgan purposefully conflating the EU with Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:
Are you saying this journo is wrong?Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
https://twitter.com/e_casalicchio/status/7147586670909194240 -
I'm genuinely embarrassed by my Party leader. It's beyond the average hyperbole, and into UFO territory.
The claims are absurd and fail any logic. Why would the NHS be worse off? Why would foreign holidays be more expensive? Why would the EU not share intelligence with us to prevent terrorists?Casino_Royale said:
The hounds of hell will be released from 9th May onwards.Plato_Says said:Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
So we are told.0 -
Historically, don't knows tend to go for the status quo, which should favour Remain.MaxPB said:
Yes, there doesn't seem to be much evidence that the DKs will break disproportionately to Remain. However, we saw in the SIndy that on polling day the final result had 90% of DKs breaking to No.Richard_Nabavi said:Interestingly, the two sets of figures (QA and QA-B combined) give the same result once you eliminate Don't Knows/Undecided/Won't vote: 54.4% Remain, 45.6% Leave
But, I suspect a lot of people who say Remain are actually pretty unlikely to vote. For that reason, I think it is likely to be closer than the phone polls suggest, although I wouldn't have Leave as favourites just yet.0 -
FrancisUrquhart said:
Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation0 -
Isn't it fab? Negative IQ thereFrancisUrquhart said:
WTF....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513434/Hijacked-passenger-plane-makes-emergency-landin-Cyprus.html
I am going to blow this plane up....
Oh cool, you have one of those suicide vest thingies....do you mind if I take a selfie?0 -
That's the sort of thing you'd see in a sketch on Monkey Dust - if anyone on here remembers Monkey Dust that is.FrancisUrquhart said:WTF....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513434/Hijacked-passenger-plane-makes-emergency-landin-Cyprus.html
I am going to blow this plane up....
Oh cool, you have one of those suicide vest thingies....do you mind if I take a selfie?0 -
Yes, exactly. That was one of the points she was making:TCPoliticalBetting said:Young people rarely vote.
“I want young people to make sure their voices are heard in this debate – whichever side of the debate they might be on – otherwise they risk having the decision made by other people, their future decided for them, not by them. Elections are decided by the people who turn up”
But by now we know that almost everything said by any politician (especially Conservative politician) who supports Remain will immediately be misreprsented - even on here, and even by people who really, really should know better.
I'm no huge fan of Ms Morgan, but it seems to be a good speech, and well-argued:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/29/nicky-morgan-young-will-suffer-most-if-britain-leaves-eu
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Ummm, I look forward to your investiture.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
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A miss-guided strategy? Is Dave and REMAIN pursuing a 36.9% strategy? The 36.9% who voted Conservative at GE2015 is clearly being fiercely fought over. Problem is that it does not attract many of the 63.1% that voted for another party and Dave has probably maxed out of his share of the 36.9% that will vote REMAIN. He is using up all the media time trying to turn another 0.5% of the 36.9% his way. A waste of resource. Chasing 0.5% and turning off many times that number pof Labour supporters. Settle for circa 16% Dave and focus on to the share of Labour GE2015 that may vote REMAIN.
It would also avoid adding more wounds to his relationship with the Conservative party.
But I do not want him to take my advice.
smiley face
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scientists exploring the properties of vacuums could save themselves a fortune by using the inside of Nicky Morgan's head.Plato_Says said:Isn't it fab? Negative IQ there
FrancisUrquhart said:WTF....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513434/Hijacked-passenger-plane-makes-emergency-landin-Cyprus.html
I am going to blow this plane up....
Oh cool, you have one of those suicide vest thingies....do you mind if I take a selfie?0 -
For God's sake! You are one of those who seems to have gone a bit mad.Plato_Says said:Ummm, I look forward to your investiture.
Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
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43% turnout last GE, so less likely but not insignificant.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Young people rarely vote.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Has anyone seen a breakdown of young voters by SE class? I suspect the ABC1's have a decent turnout and the C2DE much less so.0 -
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation0 -
It's misleading bollocks.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
And patronising to boot.0 -
Which ones?FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
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Well quite. If I were on Team Remain for Cameron, I'd be seriously feeling Fck and retrenching.
No one starts an offensive and intends to end up where Dave is now. It's a massive misjudgement and requires serious rethinking.
Ploughing on isn't an option except for the suicidal.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Stunned.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
It is REMAIN that should be very worried if after weeks of having the full weight of the Government communications machine behind it and a fragmented LEAVE campaign, by rights REMAIN should have a commanding lead. Instead having used almost every conceivable attack line, the trend in the polls has moved towards LEAVE and IMHO LEAVE now has a small lead. A quite remarkable position.
We also have Dave receiving some of his worst personal ratings in months and delivering a lead for Corbyn in one poll.0 -
I must have missed that.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is merely the appetising hors d'oeuvre from Remain.Casino_Royale said:
The hounds of hell will be released from 9th May onwards.Plato_Says said:Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
So we are told.
Today's Project Fear from Leave is an indication of where this fight is going.
It's the final fortnight that'll be critical. A fall in sterling (if it's close) will focus minds and automatically do a bit of Remain's work for it.
I'd discount the final polls for a 3-4% swing in favour of Remain to account for bottling and fear on the day.
So, a final poll of 54:46 to Remain probably means a result of 58:42 to Remain.0 -
especially from a government which has just shafted the young by trebling uni fees.FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
so young person we've stitched you up with another £18k stealth tax but look you can go interrailing.
If you can afford it that is.0 -
Starter for 10JonathanD said:
Which ones?FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
The cost of flights is down by 40% thanks to EU action...0 -
The 63.1% generally don't particularly like or respect David Cameron, so it's not obvious that David Cameron could do a lot to persuade them even if he wanted to.TCPoliticalBetting said:A miss-guided strategy? Is Dave and REMAIN pursuing a 36.9% strategy? The 36.9% who voted Conservative at GE2015 is clearly being fiercely fought over. Problem is that it does not attract many of the 63.1% that voted for another party and Dave has probably maxed out of his share of the 36.9% that will vote REMAIN. He is using up all the media time trying to turn another 0.5% of the 36.9% his way. A waste of resource. Chasing 0.5% and turning off many times that number pof Labour supporters. Settle for circa 16% Dave and focus on to the share of Labour GE2015 that may vote REMAIN.
It would also avoid adding more wounds to his relationship with the Conservative party.
But I do not want him to take my advice.
smiley face0 -
It really isn't. It's actually a good speech (which presumably is why the Leavers are so keen to trash it).Casino_Royale said:
It's misleading bollocks.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
And patronising to boot.
She just happens to be on the side of the argument to you. Disagreeing with someone shouldn't make you think she is speaking misleading bollocks, or patronising.
She's also right about the way in which many young people view the EU, as my 19-year old niece was telling me in no uncertain terms yesterday!0 -
A strategy of chasing people who do not vote worked out so well for Ed Miliband. She would be better off chasing Labour voters starting with the teachers. Ah, yes, there is that little problem of the recent Academies announcement from her BFF Osborne.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, exactly. That was one of the points she was making:TCPoliticalBetting said:Young people rarely vote.
“I want young people to make sure their voices are heard in this debate – whichever side of the debate they might be on – otherwise they risk having the decision made by other people, their future decided for them, not by them. Elections are decided by the people who turn up”
I'm no huge fan of Ms Morgan, but it seems to be a good speech, and well-argued:
Anyone spot the lack of a joined up campaign plan from Osborne?
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/7-things-wrong-vote-leaves-7646037Casino_Royale said:
I must have missed that.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is merely the appetising hors d'oeuvre from Remain.Casino_Royale said:
The hounds of hell will be released from 9th May onwards.Plato_Says said:Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
So we are told.
Today's Project Fear from Leave is an indication of where this fight is going.
It's the final fortnight that'll be critical. A fall in sterling (if it's close) will focus minds and automatically do a bit of Remain's work for it.
I'd discount the final polls for a 3-4% swing in favour of Remain to account for bottling and fear on the day.
So, a final poll of 54:46 to Remain probably means a result of 58:42 to Remain.0 -
It's a well known fact that there inter-rail pass doesn't include Switzerland or Norway.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Oh wait.0 -
Exactly, so he should cutback on the media space he and his cabinet use up for REMAIN.edmundintokyo said:
The 63.1% generally don't particularly like or respect David Cameron, so it's not obvious that David Cameron could do a lot to persuade them even if he wanted to.TCPoliticalBetting said:A miss-guided strategy? Is Dave and REMAIN pursuing a 36.9% strategy? The 36.9% who voted Conservative at GE2015 is clearly being fiercely fought over. Problem is that it does not attract many of the 63.1% that voted for another party and Dave has probably maxed out of his share of the 36.9% that will vote REMAIN. He is using up all the media time trying to turn another 0.5% of the 36.9% his way. A waste of resource. Chasing 0.5% and turning off many times that number pof Labour supporters. Settle for circa 16% Dave and focus on to the share of Labour GE2015 that may vote REMAIN.
It would also avoid adding more wounds to his relationship with the Conservative party.
But I do not want him to take my advice.
smiley face
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There has been a swing to Remain since The Deal was announced, but not a decisive one.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Stunned.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
It is REMAIN that should be very worried if after weeks of having the full weight of the Government communications machine behind it and a fragmented LEAVE campaign, by rights REMAIN should have a commanding lead. Instead having used almost every conceivable attack line, the trend in the polls has moved towards LEAVE and IMHO LEAVE now has a small lead. A quite remarkable position.
We also have Dave receiving some of his worst personal ratings in months and delivering a lead for Corbyn in one poll.
Given the softening up Leave had for the first two weeks of March, I'd say that precludes a landslide but what do I know.0 -
Which is just total crap when one takes the EU ETS into consideration which has raised the cost of flights and has a ratchet effect like other carbon taxes.FrancisUrquhart said:
Starter for 10JonathanD said:
Which ones?FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
The cost of flights is down by 40% thanks to EU action...0 -
She just wants you to be justly rewarded through mentions in dispatches.Richard_Nabavi said:
For God's sake! You are one of those who seems to have gone a bit mad.Plato_Says said:Ummm, I look forward to your investiture.
Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
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I like how the headline implies there is something wrong with the list published by Vote Leave. And then you read on to find that there isn't anything wrong - just that they'd rather this wasn't talked about.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/7-things-wrong-vote-leaves-7646037Casino_Royale said:
I must have missed that.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is merely the appetising hors d'oeuvre from Remain.Casino_Royale said:
The hounds of hell will be released from 9th May onwards.Plato_Says said:Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
So we are told.
Today's Project Fear from Leave is an indication of where this fight is going.
It's the final fortnight that'll be critical. A fall in sterling (if it's close) will focus minds and automatically do a bit of Remain's work for it.
I'd discount the final polls for a 3-4% swing in favour of Remain to account for bottling and fear on the day.
So, a final poll of 54:46 to Remain probably means a result of 58:42 to Remain.
If you're whining, you're losing.0 -
Interrail used to include the iron curtain, Turkey and Morrocco!rcs1000 said:
It's a well known fact that there inter-rail pass doesn't include Switzerland or Norway.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Oh wait.
But reading her speech she is talking about freedom of movement in more general terms than the specifics of international rail cards.0 -
FrancisUrquhart said:
Starter for 10JonathanD said:
Which ones?FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
The cost of flights is down by 40% thanks to EU action...
Possibly EasyJet know what they are talking about but I guess you know better
" “The single aviation area gives airlines freedom to fly across Europe,” an easyJet spokesman explained, “and since its introduction passengers have seen fares fall by around 40 per cent and routes increase by 180 per cent.”"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/how-air-fares-might-rise-if-there-was-a-brexit/
0 -
Actually, the single European market for flights has been pretty positive for EU and EFTA consumers. It's a lot more liberalised market than - for example- NAFTA.FrancisUrquhart said:
Starter for 10JonathanD said:
Which ones?FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
The cost of flights is down by 40% thanks to EU action...0 -
I never call others mad. I simply think your position has gone from being in agreement with Cameron's broad stance to being credulous, and lacking in critical analysis.
I must be one of the last Tories on here to say this.Richard_Nabavi said:
For God's sake! You are one of those who seems to have gone a bit mad.Plato_Says said:Ummm, I look forward to your investiture.
Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
0 -
That wasn't the point, more pot meet kettletlg86 said:
I like how the headline implies there is something wrong with the list published by Vote Leave. And then you read on to find that there isn't anything wrong - just that they'd rather this wasn't talked about.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/7-things-wrong-vote-leaves-7646037Casino_Royale said:
I must have missed that.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is merely the appetising hors d'oeuvre from Remain.Casino_Royale said:
The hounds of hell will be released from 9th May onwards.Plato_Says said:Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
So we are told.
Today's Project Fear from Leave is an indication of where this fight is going.
It's the final fortnight that'll be critical. A fall in sterling (if it's close) will focus minds and automatically do a bit of Remain's work for it.
I'd discount the final polls for a 3-4% swing in favour of Remain to account for bottling and fear on the day.
So, a final poll of 54:46 to Remain probably means a result of 58:42 to Remain.
If you're whining, you're losing.
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/7147128804746240020 -
That's Schengen, another non-EU body.foxinsoxuk said:
Interrail used to include the iron curtain, Turkey and Morrocco!rcs1000 said:
It's a well known fact that there inter-rail pass doesn't include Switzerland or Norway.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Oh wait.
But reading her speech she is talking about freedom of movement in more general terms than the specifics of international rail cards.0 -
Err, she's the Minister for Education, speaking at an event specifically for young people. The speech is for that audience.TCPoliticalBetting said:A strategy of chasing people who do not vote worked out so well for Ed Miliband. She would be better off chasing Labour voters starting with the teachers. Ah, yes, there is that little problem of the recent Academies announcement from her BFF Osborne.
Anyone spot the lack of a joined up campaign plan from Osborne?
I do hope Leavers come to their senses after the referendum.0 -
What is going on in REMAIN/Number 10's calendar planning?
First they put Nicky Morgan up at a union conference and draw the attention of UK news watchers that she is mocked and attacked for her views. Then riding this wave of toxic publicity she opens up as a voice of authority about the EU today....0 -
Better still go to a euro-university at the Dutch or Scandanavian taxpayers expense and come back with little or no debt. I was discussing this with one of my nephews this weekend.Alanbrooke said:
especially from a government which has just shafted the young by trebling uni fees.FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
so young person we've stitched you up with another £18k stealth tax but look you can go interrailing.
If you can afford it that is.0 -
Mr Nabavi. I am just pointing out the mistakes being made which are undermining REMAIN's chances. Now you can agree or disagree with that. What is your view?Richard_Nabavi said:
Err, she's the Minister for Education, speaking at an event specifically for young people. The speech is for that audience.TCPoliticalBetting said:A strategy of chasing people who do not vote worked out so well for Ed Miliband. She would be better off chasing Labour voters starting with the teachers. Ah, yes, there is that little problem of the recent Academies announcement from her BFF Osborne.
Anyone spot the lack of a joined up campaign plan from Osborne?
I do hope Leavers come to their senses after the referendum.
0 -
Ms. Morgan makes an apt poster girl for Project Fear.
Genuinely frightening.0 -
I know you'll hate this comparison, but you're reminding me a lot of Mr Sykes and his wobbly bottom half empty view of all things.Casino_Royale said:
There has been a swing to Remain since The Deal was announced, but not a decisive one.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Stunned.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
It is REMAIN that should be very worried if after weeks of having the full weight of the Government communications machine behind it and a fragmented LEAVE campaign, by rights REMAIN should have a commanding lead. Instead having used almost every conceivable attack line, the trend in the polls has moved towards LEAVE and IMHO LEAVE now has a small lead. A quite remarkable position.
We also have Dave receiving some of his worst personal ratings in months and delivering a lead for Corbyn in one poll.
Given the softening up Leave had for the first two weeks of March, I'd say that precludes a landslide but what do I know.0 -
Err...no. The In campaign's fear is "if we leave the pound will crash, you'll lose you're job, etc. etc.". Now they may be right, I don't know. The list published by Vote Leave is a Fact. Is it an important fact, one which will make up people's minds? Probably not.TheScreamingEagles said:
That wasn't the point, more pot meet kettletlg86 said:
I like how the headline implies there is something wrong with the list published by Vote Leave. And then you read on to find that there isn't anything wrong - just that they'd rather this wasn't talked about.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/7-things-wrong-vote-leaves-7646037Casino_Royale said:
I must have missed that.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is merely the appetising hors d'oeuvre from Remain.Casino_Royale said:
The hounds of hell will be released from 9th May onwards.Plato_Says said:Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
So we are told.
Today's Project Fear from Leave is an indication of where this fight is going.
It's the final fortnight that'll be critical. A fall in sterling (if it's close) will focus minds and automatically do a bit of Remain's work for it.
I'd discount the final polls for a 3-4% swing in favour of Remain to account for bottling and fear on the day.
So, a final poll of 54:46 to Remain probably means a result of 58:42 to Remain.
If you're whining, you're losing.
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/7147128804746240020 -
Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean their mad. Maybe what makes sense for your set of circumstances doesn't make sense for theirs.Richard_Nabavi said:
Err, she's the Minister for Education, speaking at an event specifically for young people. The speech is for that audience.TCPoliticalBetting said:A strategy of chasing people who do not vote worked out so well for Ed Miliband. She would be better off chasing Labour voters starting with the teachers. Ah, yes, there is that little problem of the recent Academies announcement from her BFF Osborne.
Anyone spot the lack of a joined up campaign plan from Osborne?
I do hope Leavers come to their senses after the referendum.
A touch less narcissism Mr N.0 -
'Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.'
Ah yes well I'm sure there is an appropriate spin line for whatever result the polls come out with.0 -
If you find her frightening, then I suggest that you get out more. She looks like a startled owl. A bit thyrotoxic maybe but not scary.MonikerDiCanio said:Ms. Morgan makes an apt poster girl for Project Fear.
Genuinely frightening.0 -
My view is that she's produced a good speech for the occasion, better than I would have expected of her to be perfectly honest. I don't see any mistake at all.TCPoliticalBetting said:Mr Nabavi. I am just pointing out the mistakes being made which are undermining REMAIN's chances. Now you can agree or disagree with that. What is your view?
0 -
Come on Richard, we all know that targeting non-voters is a zero sum game without a truly, truly electrifying cause. The EU barely registers as an issue.Richard_Nabavi said:
Err, she's the Minister for Education, speaking at an event specifically for young people. The speech is for that audience.TCPoliticalBetting said:A strategy of chasing people who do not vote worked out so well for Ed Miliband. She would be better off chasing Labour voters starting with the teachers. Ah, yes, there is that little problem of the recent Academies announcement from her BFF Osborne.
Anyone spot the lack of a joined up campaign plan from Osborne?
I do hope Leavers come to their senses after the referendum.0 -
Are voters worried about not having more freedom of movement within the EU or would they favour less? It does seem to me that overall voters are looking for a bit less freedom of movement. But I could be wrong.foxinsoxuk said:
But reading her speech she is talking about freedom of movement in more general terms than the specifics of international rail cards.rcs1000 said:
It's a well known fact that there inter-rail pass doesn't include Switzerland or Norway.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Oh wait.
0 -
It is highly unlikely European unis can take all our 1,000,000 students nor does the EU have the Erasmus funds to support it.foxinsoxuk said:
Better still go to a euro-university at the Dutch or Scandanavian taxpayers expense and come back with little or no debt. I was discussing this with one of my nephews this weekend.Alanbrooke said:
especially from a government which has just shafted the young by trebling uni fees.FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
so young person we've stitched you up with another £18k stealth tax but look you can go interrailing.
If you can afford it that is.0 -
Not a chance. This is Cameron's legacy on the line. He clearly believes being an EU member state is the best option for the UK and he is going to do all he can to ensure that the country agrees with him.MaxPB said:
I actually think Dave is going to step back from the campaign after his comments about "thinking things over". He can see how much damage he is doing to the party and to our electoral hopes for 2020 by being the front of the Remain campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
0 -
I actually think that is a much bigger motivator for young people than stupid stuff like inter-rail (which has nothing to do with the EU anyway). Free education in Finland, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands and Italy at decent, internationally recognised universities.foxinsoxuk said:
Better still go to a euro-university at the Dutch or Scandanavian taxpayers expense and come back with little or no debt. I was discussing this with one of my nephews this weekend.Alanbrooke said:
especially from a government which has just shafted the young by trebling uni fees.FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
so young person we've stitched you up with another £18k stealth tax but look you can go interrailing.
If you can afford it that is.0 -
Noted. But to help a speech have impact it often helps to prepare the ground so that they welcome the contents and/or the speaker.Richard_Nabavi said:
My view is that she's produced a good speech for the occasion, better than I would have expected of her to be perfectly honest. I don't see any mistake at all.TCPoliticalBetting said:Mr Nabavi. I am just pointing out the mistakes being made which are undermining REMAIN's chances. Now you can agree or disagree with that. What is your view?
0 -
You are right, but a lot of people on here (on one side only) seem to think that those who disagree with them over whether on balance it's better to vote Leave or Remain are dishonest, careerist (!) or even 'traitors'. That is my point. That is what is mad.Alanbrooke said:Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean their mad. Maybe what makes sense for your set of circumstances doesn't make sense for theirs.
0 -
MaxPB said:
Come on Richard, we all know that targeting non-voters is a zero sum game without a truly, truly electrifying cause. The EU barely registers as an issue.Richard_Nabavi said:
Err, she's the Minister for Education, speaking at an event specifically for young people. The speech is for that audience.TCPoliticalBetting said:A strategy of chasing people who do not vote worked out so well for Ed Miliband. She would be better off chasing Labour voters starting with the teachers. Ah, yes, there is that little problem of the recent Academies announcement from her BFF Osborne.
Anyone spot the lack of a joined up campaign plan from Osborne?
I do hope Leavers come to their senses after the referendum.
Except she has also crafted the speech to have reference to those who do vote - parents and grandparents
"I’d ask you to think about the impact of that vote, not just on your lives, but on that of your children and grandchildren.
I’d ask you to ask yourselves - what the impact of that leap into the dark will mean for them and others in the next generation.
I want to spend the next few years making sure that we build on the opportunities now available to young people, not trying to repair the damage that a vote to leave would do to them."
0 -
Fran Cotton in drag imo.foxinsoxuk said:
If you find her frightening, then I suggest that you get out more. She looks like a startled owl. A bit thyrotoxic maybe but not scary.MonikerDiCanio said:Ms. Morgan makes an apt poster girl for Project Fear.
Genuinely frightening.-1 -
It's particularly funny because not only are EFTA countries part of Interail but even countries completely outside EU or EFTA are members. Serbia, Macedonia and Turkey are all part of Interail.rcs1000 said:
It's a well known fact that there inter-rail pass doesn't include Switzerland or Norway.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Oh wait.0 -
Not Erasmus, but actually just going to university in an EU nation. All students have abide by the local rules, so EU students have to pay £9k per year here (they get loans which unsurprisingly have a very, very high delinquency rate) and our students get a free education where it is free for local students. In Finland the government will actually pay students (home or EU) to attend.Alanbrooke said:
It is highly unlikely European unis can take all our 1,000,000 students nor does the EU have the Erasmus funds to support it.foxinsoxuk said:
Better still go to a euro-university at the Dutch or Scandanavian taxpayers expense and come back with little or no debt. I was discussing this with one of my nephews this weekend.Alanbrooke said:
especially from a government which has just shafted the young by trebling uni fees.FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
so young person we've stitched you up with another £18k stealth tax but look you can go interrailing.
If you can afford it that is.0 -
I hugely value my freedom of movement in Europe and the opportunities that creates. I remember how long it used to take to get a work visa for Spain - and how much it cost. I also know how much it benefits our company and, therefore, its employees.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Are voters worried about not having more freedom of movement within the EU or would they favour less? It does seem to me that overall voters are looking for a bit less freedom of movement. But I could be wrong.foxinsoxuk said:
But reading her speech she is talking about freedom of movement in more general terms than the specifics of international rail cards.rcs1000 said:
It's a well known fact that there inter-rail pass doesn't include Switzerland or Norway.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Oh wait.
But if people are voting to restrict freedom of movement, they are going to be sorely disappointed.
0 -
And they won't be swayed by arguments such as inter-rail.JonathanD said:MaxPB said:
Come on Richard, we all know that targeting non-voters is a zero sum game without a truly, truly electrifying cause. The EU barely registers as an issue.Richard_Nabavi said:
Err, she's the Minister for Education, speaking at an event specifically for young people. The speech is for that audience.TCPoliticalBetting said:A strategy of chasing people who do not vote worked out so well for Ed Miliband. She would be better off chasing Labour voters starting with the teachers. Ah, yes, there is that little problem of the recent Academies announcement from her BFF Osborne.
Anyone spot the lack of a joined up campaign plan from Osborne?
I do hope Leavers come to their senses after the referendum.
Except she has also crafted the speech to have reference to those who do vote - parents and grandparents
"I’d ask you to think about the impact of that vote, not just on your lives, but on that of your children and grandchildren.
I’d ask you to ask yourselves - what the impact of that leap into the dark will mean for them and others in the next generation.
I want to spend the next few years making sure that we build on the opportunities now available to young people, not trying to repair the damage that a vote to leave would do to them."0 -
I expect it will be a theme repeated many times.TCPoliticalBetting said:Noted. But to help a speech have impact it often helps to prepare the ground so that they welcome the contents and/or the speaker.
0 -
Insulting piffle. You know full well that fellow loyal Tories disagree with you for very valid reasons.
I'd suggest that fellow Tory members here who disagree with you are in full possession of their critical faculties.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are right, but a lot of people on here (on one side only) seem to think that those who disagree with them over whether on balance it's better to vote Leave or Remain are dishonest or even 'traitors'. That is my point. That is what is mad.Alanbrooke said:Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean their mad. Maybe what makes sense for your set of circumstances doesn't make sense for theirs.
0 -
Casino is better than most at avoiding cognitive dissonance.Plato_Says said:I know you'll hate this comparison, but you're reminding me a lot of Mr Sykes and his wobbly bottom half empty view of all things.
Casino_Royale said:
There has been a swing to Remain since The Deal was announced, but not a decisive one.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Stunned.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
It is REMAIN that should be very worried if after weeks of having the full weight of the Government communications machine behind it and a fragmented LEAVE campaign, by rights REMAIN should have a commanding lead. Instead having used almost every conceivable attack line, the trend in the polls has moved towards LEAVE and IMHO LEAVE now has a small lead. A quite remarkable position.
We also have Dave receiving some of his worst personal ratings in months and delivering a lead for Corbyn in one poll.
Given the softening up Leave had for the first two weeks of March, I'd say that precludes a landslide but what do I know.0 -
Hmm Mr N I'm afraid I don't agree with that, your soulmate Mr Meeks is a good example of one who's quite happy to throw accusations around so it's not just on one side only.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are right, but a lot of people on here (on one side only) seem to think that those who disagree with them over whether on balance it's better to vote Leave or Remain are dishonest or even 'traitors'. That is my point. That is what is mad.Alanbrooke said:Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean their mad. Maybe what makes sense for your set of circumstances doesn't make sense for theirs.
The staleness of the EUref arguments is that there are no knock out blows ; in simple terms nobody knows and everybody is spinning.
0 -
No, it isn't. She equates the EU with Europe and agains promotes the myth that Britain would be 'cut off' and 'isolated' outside the EU when actually it's all about creating a global facing Britain. The dogwhistle on the InterRailing has already been comprehensively debunked.Richard_Nabavi said:
It really isn't. It's actually a good speech (which presumably is why the Leavers are so keen to trash it).Casino_Royale said:
It's misleading bollocks.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it isn't true. She was making a sensible point about how young people regard Europe.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
And patronising to boot.
She just happens to be on the side of the argument to you. Disagreeing with someone shouldn't make you think she is speaking misleading bollocks, or patronising.
She's also right about the way in which many young people view the EU, as my 19-year old niece was telling me in no uncertain terms yesterday!
You really do have to do better than this. And I suggest you stop labelling me as a Leaver (you'll be calling me "mad", "fruitcake" or "frother" next as seems to be irresistible by so many on the Remain side) or I will cease to engage with you on this subject, as I have with others.0 -
"our students get a free education where it is free for local students"MaxPB said:
Not Erasmus, but actually just going to university in an EU nation. All students have abide by the local rules, so EU students have to pay £9k per year here (they get loans which unsurprisingly have a very, very high delinquency rate) and our students get a free education where it is free for local students. In Finland the government will actually pay students (home or EU) to attend.Alanbrooke said:
It is highly unlikely European unis can take all our 1,000,000 students nor does the EU have the Erasmus funds to support it.foxinsoxuk said:
Better still go to a euro-university at the Dutch or Scandanavian taxpayers expense and come back with little or no debt. I was discussing this with one of my nephews this weekend.Alanbrooke said:
especially from a government which has just shafted the young by trebling uni fees.FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
so young person we've stitched you up with another £18k stealth tax but look you can go interrailing.
If you can afford it that is.
Apart from Scotland.
0 -
Yes, it is Cameron's legacy. Does he want to be Heath or Thatcher. If he continues to take his current line his party turns him into Heath.SouthamObserver said:
Not a chance. This is Cameron's legacy on the line. He clearly believes being an EU member state is the best option for the UK and he is going to do all he can to ensure that the country agrees with him.MaxPB said:
I actually think Dave is going to step back from the campaign after his comments about "thinking things over". He can see how much damage he is doing to the party and to our electoral hopes for 2020 by being the front of the Remain campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.0 -
Thanks. I disagree with that.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/7-things-wrong-vote-leaves-7646037Casino_Royale said:
I must have missed that.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is merely the appetising hors d'oeuvre from Remain.Casino_Royale said:
The hounds of hell will be released from 9th May onwards.Plato_Says said:Piffle. Cameron has insulted Boris, kept Leavers from talking after he started to, stopped them having access to documents and thrown the kitchen sink at Project Fear.
And Leave is holding up and creeping forward.
We've had the NHS, North Korean nuclear war, ISIS and increased roaming phone charges thrown about.
What's left?TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
So we are told.
Today's Project Fear from Leave is an indication of where this fight is going.
It's the final fortnight that'll be critical. A fall in sterling (if it's close) will focus minds and automatically do a bit of Remain's work for it.
I'd discount the final polls for a 3-4% swing in favour of Remain to account for bottling and fear on the day.
So, a final poll of 54:46 to Remain probably means a result of 58:42 to Remain.
That's a Leave.EU/GO attack line not a Vote Leave one.0 -
Nicky Morgan's big problem is that she is not a very convincing performer. Like Jeremy Hunt she gives the impression of being permanently startled.0
-
Those who disagree with me, yes. Those who write 'I look forward to your investiture' because I point out that Nicky Morgan's speech is actually quite good?Plato_Says said:Insulting piffle. You know full well that fellow loyal Tories disagree with you for very valid reasons.
I'd suggest that fellow Tory members here who disagree with you are in full possession of their critical faculties.0 -
Freedom of movement cuts both ways. If the bottom half of society by earnings got a wage increase due to less competition wouldn't it be worth asking rich folk like yourself to stand for an extra 15 minutes at the airport ?SouthamObserver said:
I hugely value my freedom of movement in Europe and the opportunities that creates. I remember how long it used to take to get a work visa for Spain - and how much it cost. I also know how much it benefits our company and, therefore, its employees.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Are voters worried about not having more freedom of movement within the EU or would they favour less? It does seem to me that overall voters are looking for a bit less freedom of movement. But I could be wrong.foxinsoxuk said:
But reading her speech she is talking about freedom of movement in more general terms than the specifics of international rail cards.rcs1000 said:
It's a well known fact that there inter-rail pass doesn't include Switzerland or Norway.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Oh wait.
But if people are voting to restrict freedom of movement, they are going to be sorely disappointed.0 -
Cost by seat, excluding fuel is what is required here. And a brief look through the corporate releases of EasyJet show increases most years e.g last year, the headline was a 6.3% reduction, but when you strip out fuel cost reductions costs actually went up by 1.3%, and a quick look shows similar patterns for previous few years i.e. the big reductions are down to massive drop in oil prices, which is nothing to do with EU policy.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Starter for 10JonathanD said:
Which ones?FrancisUrquhart said:
Some ludicrous claims in there.JonathanD said:FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Here's the full text
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/nicky-morgan-leaving-the-eu-risks-a-lost-generation
The cost of flights is down by 40% thanks to EU action...
Possibly EasyJet know what they are talking about but I guess you know better
" “The single aviation area gives airlines freedom to fly across Europe,” an easyJet spokesman explained, “and since its introduction passengers have seen fares fall by around 40 per cent and routes increase by 180 per cent.”"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/how-air-fares-might-rise-if-there-was-a-brexit/
Will concede that the agreement with EU and EFTA consumers over flights has been positive...but 40% due to their attack, not buying it.0 -
You haven't read the speech, or, more likely, you are seeing it through a prism. She's not promoting any such myth, she's taking about how young people view the EU. I think she's right.Casino_Royale said:
No, it isn't. She equates the EU with Europe and agains promotes the myth that Britain would be 'cut off' and 'isolated' outside the EU when actually it's all about creating a global facing Britain. The dogwhistle on the InterRailing has already been comprehensively debunked.
You really do have to do better than this. And I suggest you stop labelling me as a Leaver (you'll be calling me "mad", "fruitcake" or "frother" next as seems to be irresistible by so many on the Remain side) or I will cease to engage with you on this subject, as I have with others.0 -
He has made his choice. I imagine he is less concerned about how he is viewed by the Conservative party than how he is viewed more widely.MaxPB said:
Yes, it is Cameron's legacy. Does he want to be Heath or Thatcher. If he continues to take his current line his party turns him into Heath.SouthamObserver said:
Not a chance. This is Cameron's legacy on the line. He clearly believes being an EU member state is the best option for the UK and he is going to do all he can to ensure that the country agrees with him.MaxPB said:
I actually think Dave is going to step back from the campaign after his comments about "thinking things over". He can see how much damage he is doing to the party and to our electoral hopes for 2020 by being the front of the Remain campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
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I did a cross check of Ipsos' final pre-election poll and it's post election review the other day.
Remain should be concerned. People lie to phone pollsters. Middle aged and above C2DEs seemed the most common.
The phone polls were less accurate than online ones in identifying Right/Left blocs last May.
Mori had the right (Tory/UKIP) on 45% across it's post-dissolution polls. In the real vote it was 51%0 -
I hope so - as it improves the chances of LEAVE. But it does widen the split in the party when key people talk nonsense.Richard_Nabavi said:
I expect it will be a theme repeated many times.TCPoliticalBetting said:Noted. But to help a speech have impact it often helps to prepare the ground so that they welcome the contents and/or the speaker.
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I can assure you my bottom is pert and flab-free. I am 100% certain to vote Leave.Plato_Says said:I know you'll hate this comparison, but you're reminding me a lot of Mr Sykes and his wobbly bottom half empty view of all things.
Casino_Royale said:
There has been a swing to Remain since The Deal was announced, but not a decisive one.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Stunned.TheScreamingEagles said:Leave should be worried by the closeness of these polls.
Dave is at his best when the pressure is on.
Big leads for Remain would be better for Leave as they might induce complacency by Remain.
It is REMAIN that should be very worried if after weeks of having the full weight of the Government communications machine behind it and a fragmented LEAVE campaign, by rights REMAIN should have a commanding lead. Instead having used almost every conceivable attack line, the trend in the polls has moved towards LEAVE and IMHO LEAVE now has a small lead. A quite remarkable position.
We also have Dave receiving some of his worst personal ratings in months and delivering a lead for Corbyn in one poll.
Given the softening up Leave had for the first two weeks of March, I'd say that precludes a landslide but what do I know.
The small swing is a fact, but it's less than Remain might have hoped for.
My assessment of the likely result is based upon my reading of the polling data and conversations with soft eurosceptics, friends, family, strangers and colleagues, albeit all in London and the South East and in social groups AB.
I am conscious that this is a betting site so try and call it how i see it rather than what I'd like to happen.0 -
Mr Meeks throws different accusations around!Alanbrooke said:Hmm Mr N I'm afraid I don't agree with that, your soulmate Mr Meeks is a good example of one who's quite happy to throw accusations around so it's not just on one side only.
The staleness of the EUref arguments is that there are no knock out blows ; in simple terms nobody knows and everybody is spinning.
You are right in your second paragraph. It's a judgement call on a set of unknowns, and sensible, honest people, even of broadly the same political position in other matters, will form different views on the same facts. That is the point I keep repeating.0 -
I am not sure it is that binary. Less competition also means higher prices and less need to provide a decent service. That has an impact on the bottom half of society most and the lowest earners most of all. And, of course, there is a lot more to free movement than people being able to get around easily (though as we are not in Schengen we queue anyway).Alanbrooke said:
Freedom of movement cuts both ways. If the bottom half of society by earnings got a wage increase due to less competition wouldn't it be worth asking rich folk like yourself to stand for an extra 15 minutes at the airport ?SouthamObserver said:
I hugely value my freedom of movement in Europe and the opportunities that creates. I remember how long it used to take to get a work visa for Spain - and how much it cost. I also know how much it benefits our company and, therefore, its employees.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Are voters worried about not having more freedom of movement within the EU or would they favour less? It does seem to me that overall voters are looking for a bit less freedom of movement. But I could be wrong.foxinsoxuk said:
But reading her speech she is talking about freedom of movement in more general terms than the specifics of international rail cards.rcs1000 said:
It's a well known fact that there inter-rail pass doesn't include Switzerland or Norway.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it true that Nicky Morgan gave the example of InterRailling as areason to stay in the EU? Tell me it isn't...surely...
Oh wait.
But if people are voting to restrict freedom of movement, they are going to be sorely disappointed.
0
