politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nick Palmer says both sides in the referendum have got to s
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nick Palmer says both sides in the referendum have got to stop sounding so gloomy
It’s been widely observed that the referendum campaign is a contest between negatives. Vote Remain because leaving would reduce the country to smouldering ashes, or Vote Leave because remaining would doom us to surrender to Brussels bureaucrats forever. The impression given is that we have a choice of extremely bearish scenarios, with little hope either way.
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"Cameron needs to muster a positive case for sceptics. “Yes, there are things we find frustrating about the EU. But it isn’t going away, it’s on our doorstep. It already has many advantages for us, and we need to be in there making it better.”
Cameron has already massively overplayed his hand. The people he needs to persuade just aren't persuaded that we NEED to be in the EU, making it better. We can walk away, and the rest of the EU can then make it as crap as they want...0 -
Neither will change, it will be like this to the very end and Remain will win.0
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Will never happen. I take the point that our politics is generally negative, and the Leave side have the better negative arguments, but I don't think there are enough positives for Remain to use. Or rather, that many in Remain would want to use - potential positives of Remain tend to rely on embracing the EU project to a higher degree than is supported even by most Leavers.
But a bigger problem to someone going positive is the Labour leadership, as only they can go positive and try to reach large numbers of people. If they are indeed keen on the EU for positive reasons, I've not seen it very often, so either Nick is wrong, which I have no reason to believe, or they have deliberately played it down as they don't think their voters feel the same way. I recall my impression of the sides at the last Euros was that the Tories and Labour both tried to present as though they didn't like the EU, presumably as that was more popular among their own voters. So suddenly getting positive about the EU, rather than just 'Well, we may as well stay as it is too big a risk to leave' would seem less effective than it might once have been.0 -
FPT Parris comes over increasingly as a piece of work.0
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Still not sure which way to vote. Head says in, heart says out. Neither side seem to be making much effort to sway me one way or the other. Perhaps they feel it's still too far out for a real push yet. Not holding my breath though.0
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Yes, I agree that's a risk - it's a bit late to discover positives that you forgot to mention earlier. But modern politics is very targeted to different niche audiences, and there is a substantial niche of voters who on the whole quite like the idea of the EU (over 50% when the wquestion was asked recfently) but are not sure we should be members. They need encouragement to vote.kle4 said:Will never happen. I take the point that our politics is generally negative, and the Leave side have the better negative arguments, but I don't think there are enough positives for Remain to use. Or rather, that many in Remain would want to use - potential positives of Remain tend to rely on embracing the EU project to a higher degree than is supported even by most Leavers.
But a bigger problem to someone going positive is the Labour leadership, as only they can go positive and try to reach large numbers of people. If they are indeed keen on the EU for positive reasons, I've not seen it very often, so either Nick is wrong, which I have no reason to believe, or they have deliberately played it down as they don't think their voters feel the same way. I recall my impression of the sides at the last Euros was that the Tories and Labour both tried to present as though they didn't like the EU, presumably as that was more popular among their own voters. So suddenly getting positive about the EU, rather than just 'Well, we may as well stay as it is too big a risk to leave' would seem less effective than it might once have been.
A few fairly positive speeches are being made (see e.g. the one linked to by Alan Johnson in the header - click on the word "speeches") but the press don't think they're very interesting, so they're not reported.0 -
Terrible start for Eng in the cricket...I going poncey boots on this game already ;-)0
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Incidentally, if we're talking about effective negative campaigning, I think Remain could reasonably run one on these lines:
Who are the best-known people who think you should vote Leave?
1. Nigel Farage
2. Boris Johnson
3. George Galloway
4. Donald Trump
Do you trust the judgment of any of them in deciding what's safest for Britain?0 -
I agree with Nick on the need for positive messages from both.
Lance Forman was on BBC News and put forward the view that the positive side for out is that if we want the 21st century to be Britain's then we need to be nibble and be out.
Regarding Nick's "This means giving Alan Johnson a prominent role. He’s making plenty of speeches but they aren’t being reported." problem is that Alan is very short of the understanding of what the positives of the EU are beyond the few bullet points he is given by the PR. When challenged Alan does not have the depth of knowledge to defend each facile argument he makes be it on the "3 million" or the "security" or "immigration". But as I do want LEAVE I would welcome Alan to be made the leading man....
PS Has Alan actually made positive points for REMAIN?0 -
Interesting piece, I like the bit
Nonetheless, Remain need to do something to counter this, or they will lose.
For the first time Remain are realising its not the foregone conclusion they presumed. Don't sound so negative, says Nick, so what are the positives for Remain?
Once again I'll tell you, Leave wins on a small turnout, lethargy and complacency loses it for the Inners.0 -
The trend is your friend and that is towards LEAVE.tlg86 said:Neither will change, it will be like this to the very end and Remain will win.
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Equally the Out campaign could put up posters of Dave and George in safe Labour seats saying "they want to stay in..."NickPalmer said:Incidentally, if we're talking about effective negative campaigning, I think Remain could reasonably run one on these lines:
Who are the best-known people who think you should vote Leave?
1. Nigel Farage
2. Boris Johnson
3. George Galloway
4. Donald Trump
Do you trust the judgment of any of them in deciding what's safest for Britain?0 -
O/T, I've now finished Season 5 of A Game of Thrones. My spoiler-free thoughts.
It's superbly acted. Jonathan Pryce, Lena Headey, and Maisie Williams are especially good.
It's very gripping. Scene after scene comes off well, with high production values. But.....
The brutality is really turned up to 11. Some viewers may actually cease to care very much about the outcome. Season 5 comes close to glorifying cruelty, IMHO. Horrible things happen in the books, but several characters do have redeeming features, which just aren't shown in the series.
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What you mean it wasn't all tits and dragons.Sean_F said:O/T, I've now finished Season 5 of A Game of Thrones. My spoiler-free thoughts.
It's superbly acted. Jonathan Pryce, Lena Headey, and Maisie Williams are especially good.
It's very gripping. Scene after scene comes off well, with high production values. But.....
The brutality is really turned up to 11. Some viewers may actually cease to care very much about the outcome. Season 5 comes close to glorifying cruelty, IMHO. Horrible things happen in the books, but several characters do have redeeming features, which just aren't shown in the series.0 -
And Blair and Mandelson in tory seats.tlg86 said:
Equally the Out campaign could put up posters of Dave and George in safe Labour seats saying "they want to stay in..."NickPalmer said:Incidentally, if we're talking about effective negative campaigning, I think Remain could reasonably run one on these lines:
Who are the best-known people who think you should vote Leave?
1. Nigel Farage
2. Boris Johnson
3. George Galloway
4. Donald Trump
Do you trust the judgment of any of them in deciding what's safest for Britain?
This is where Nick loses it, writes a thread header beseeching people to be positive then immediately reverts to type. Pathetic, quite frankly.0 -
Interestingly the blu-ray box set includes a warning on the back for 'strong bloody violence' but says nothing about nudity. Clearly not enough tits.FrancisUrquhart said:
What you mean it wasn't all tits and dragons.Sean_F said:O/T, I've now finished Season 5 of A Game of Thrones. My spoiler-free thoughts.
It's superbly acted. Jonathan Pryce, Lena Headey, and Maisie Williams are especially good.
It's very gripping. Scene after scene comes off well, with high production values. But.....
The brutality is really turned up to 11. Some viewers may actually cease to care very much about the outcome. Season 5 comes close to glorifying cruelty, IMHO. Horrible things happen in the books, but several characters do have redeeming features, which just aren't shown in the series.
I have to disagree with SeanF though, the show has characters with some sympathetic moments and traits that aren't in the books, simply by virtue of us seeing things from their perspectives in a way you don't in the books. Counter to that it is more horrifying to witness some of the more brutal moments when depicted on screen, but then they were at the point in the books when the horror and brutality seemed at its peak in many ways (it was toward the end of book 5, where the series is and is slightly past in some ways, that I felt glimmers of hope began to reemerge).0 -
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I thought you already were running on that? All I seem to hear from Remains is that Leave's leaders are squabbling charlatans and its supporters are mad/common/thick/racist/bigoted/insert sneering adjective of preference.NickPalmer said:Incidentally, if we're talking about effective negative campaigning, I think Remain could reasonably run one on these lines:
Who are the best-known people who think you should vote Leave?
1. Nigel Farage
2. Boris Johnson
3. George Galloway
4. Donald Trump
Do you trust the judgment of any of them in deciding what's safest for Britain?0 -
There are dragons in it?FrancisUrquhart said:
What you mean it wasn't all tits and dragons.Sean_F said:O/T, I've now finished Season 5 of A Game of Thrones. My spoiler-free thoughts.
It's superbly acted. Jonathan Pryce, Lena Headey, and Maisie Williams are especially good.
It's very gripping. Scene after scene comes off well, with high production values. But.....
The brutality is really turned up to 11. Some viewers may actually cease to care very much about the outcome. Season 5 comes close to glorifying cruelty, IMHO. Horrible things happen in the books, but several characters do have redeeming features, which just aren't shown in the series.0 -
FrancisUrqhart, oh no, it's full of T & A (and dragons).0
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The imagery of Matthew Parris "letting it all hang out" is want to have my luncheon make a return appearance ....
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I have heard that they make a fleeting appearance from time to time, but I hear many people skip over those boring bits.GeoffM said:
There are dragons in it?FrancisUrquhart said:
What you mean it wasn't all tits and dragons.Sean_F said:O/T, I've now finished Season 5 of A Game of Thrones. My spoiler-free thoughts.
It's superbly acted. Jonathan Pryce, Lena Headey, and Maisie Williams are especially good.
It's very gripping. Scene after scene comes off well, with high production values. But.....
The brutality is really turned up to 11. Some viewers may actually cease to care very much about the outcome. Season 5 comes close to glorifying cruelty, IMHO. Horrible things happen in the books, but several characters do have redeeming features, which just aren't shown in the series.0 -
On topic, the respective campaigns do seem overwhelmingly dominated by the right.
One group says the EU is horrible, but they'll do horrible things to us if we Leave. The other says, the EU is horrible, so we should Leave.
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We are not playing a test match here lads...0
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Anything over 140 should be enough against Sri Lanka the way they've been batting, and we should get 170 from here.FrancisUrquhart said:We are not playing a test match here lads...
Edit- oops, why didn't I keep my fat fingers still?0 -
Looks a really strange wicket. Outfield is like lightning so should score well but it is skiddy with more than a hint of turn. No idea what a good score on this is- maybe 160?FrancisUrquhart said:We are not playing a test match here lads...
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I know Sri Lanka aren't what they were, but they aren't Afghanistan ;-)ydoethur said:
Anything over 140 should be enough against Sri Lanka the way they've been batting, and we should get 170 from here.FrancisUrquhart said:We are not playing a test match here lads...
Edit- oops, why didn't I keep my fat fingers still?0 -
A very good point, Mr Palmer. Nobody would trust their judgement.NickPalmer said:Incidentally, if we're talking about effective negative campaigning, I think Remain could reasonably run one on these lines:
Who are the best-known people who think you should vote Leave?
1. Nigel Farage
2. Boris Johnson
3. George Galloway
4. Donald Trump
Do you trust the judgment of any of them in deciding what's safest for Britain?
On the other hand we have Cameron and Osborne, who are as unreliable and treacherous as they come. And Corbyn, who used to spend most of his time stabbing his own government in the back. Presumably Miliband is also in favour of REMAIN.
The problem is that the question is meaningless. Those who vote for LEAVE have no idea what alternative we may end up with. While those who vote for REMAIN have no idea what sort of EU they are voting for.
Whatever the result, it will be judged a great victory for Mr Cameron, who will define for us what the voting meant, and then act accordingly. Just as he chooses.
The whole thing is a waste of time and money.0 -
The way Sri Lanka have been playing, the Afghans will be pleased to hear it!FrancisUrquhart said:
I know Sri Lanka aren't what they were, but they aren't Afghanistan ;-)ydoethur said:
Anything over 140 should be enough against Sri Lanka the way they've been batting, and we should get 170 from here.FrancisUrquhart said:We are not playing a test match here lads...
Edit- oops, why didn't I keep my fat fingers still?0 -
The problem with this thread, thoughtful and well written as it is, is that there isn't really a positive case for remaining. I don't really say that disparagingly - as an example, I passionately support keeping the UK together, but from the Scottish point of view, I would freely admit there wasn't a 'positive' case for Better Together in the Indyref.0
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She should have done it in 140 characters.."its a bit shit, not enough characters to properly explain a nuanced position, full of hateful trolls, and with that I am off. Bye".MarkHopkins said:0 -
Eoin Morgan is so far from his best. edit...he says as Morgan launches a 4 and then a 6....but point still stands.0
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I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.0
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They are a disaster. They are still burning a $1 million a day, the demographic of users is overwhelmingly people who won't pay / can't pay. Older customers use Facebook, "new" customers are on Whatsapp, Instagram, etc.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
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What in gods name is wrong with these people.
Around 1,000 British girls face harm from the 'abhorrent' practice of breast ironing, ministers have warned. In the brutal procedure, hot objects [stones, a hammer or a spatula] are used to pound and beat girls' breasts to stop them growing in the belief it makes them less desirable and discourages premarital pregnancy. Breast ironing originated in Cameroon, where it affects as many as one in four.
It also takes place in Nigeria, Benin and Chad.
This week Jake Berry, the Conservative MP for Rossendale & Darwen, said he was shocked to learn girls in west African communities in Birmingham and London were victims too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510492/British-girls-young-10-face-harm-breast-ironing-stones-heated-hot-coals-ritual-imported-west-Africa.html#ixzz441PRxfRy0 -
There should be no pissing about, no "cultural sensitivity" bollocks with this stuff.Moses_ said:What in gods name is wrong with these people.
Around 1,000 British girls face harm from the 'abhorrent' practice of breast ironing, ministers have warned. In the brutal procedure, hot objects [stones, a hammer or a spatula] are used to pound and beat girls' breasts to stop them growing in the belief it makes them less desirable and discourages premarital pregnancy. Breast ironing originated in Cameroon, where it affects as many as one in four.
It also takes place in Nigeria, Benin and Chad.
This week Jake Berry, the Conservative MP for Rossendale & Darwen, said he was shocked to learn girls in west African communities in Birmingham and London were victims too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510492/British-girls-young-10-face-harm-breast-ironing-stones-heated-hot-coals-ritual-imported-west-Africa.html#ixzz441PRxfRy0 -
New reports have revealed astonishing lapses in security and intelligence after it emerged all three Brussels bombers had visited Turkey in the past two years, raising suspicion with local authorities looking to deport them.
Brussels airport suicide bomber Ibrahim El-Bakraoui, 29, was deported from Turkey not once, but twice, in the past year, and sent back to Europe.
However, because Belgian authorities told Turkey Najim Laachraoui's record was "clean", he wasn't deported.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3509299/Belgium-terror-incompetence-laid-bare-THREE-Brussels-suicide-bombers-flagged-Turkish-authorities-left-commit-mass-murder-Europe.html
Dupont et Dupond on the case again.
If the Turks tell you they think somebody is a terrorist and he isn't a Kurd, he's a F##KIN TERRORIST...and a dangerous one.0 -
Facebook is rapidly descending into mess of funny videos and clickbait links.FrancisUrquhart said:
They are a disaster. They are still burning a $1 million a day, the demographic of users is overwhelmingly people who won't pay / can't pay. Older customers use Facebook, "new" customers are on Whatsapp, Instagram, etc.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
There's a gap in the market for something like Louise Mensch's Menshn so it's a shame she chose the wrong partner for it.0 -
It will be a shame if they are.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
Following Twitter outrages are a very entertaining thing indeed.0 -
Facebook now has the world largest viewership of videos...more than YouTube...you don't have a bloody choice about it, but they are.williamglenn said:
Facebook is rapidly descending into mess of funny videos and clickbait links.FrancisUrquhart said:
They are a disaster. They are still burning a $1 million a day, the demographic of users is overwhelmingly people who won't pay / can't pay. Older customers use Facebook, "new" customers are on Whatsapp, Instagram, etc.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
There's a gap in the market for something like Louise Mensch's Menshn so it's a shame she chose the wrong partner for it.
I agree, but at the moment they are making big bucks out of it all...and also they have got fingers in other pies if Facebook starts to drop off.
Twitter has a load of journos and broke Millennials.0 -
I am sure some spotty Ivy League drop out will come up with a replacement and burn through $100's of million in venture capital...Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
It will be a shame if they are.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
Following Twitter outrages are a very entertaining thing indeed.0 -
Buttler is something else, he really is.0
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Just don't ask anyone from Cameroon to explain it or you'll get arrested.Moses_ said:What in gods name is wrong with these people.
Around 1,000 British girls face harm from the 'abhorrent' practice of breast ironing, ministers have warned. In the brutal procedure, hot objects [stones, a hammer or a spatula] are used to pound and beat girls' breasts to stop them growing in the belief it makes them less desirable and discourages premarital pregnancy. Breast ironing originated in Cameroon, where it affects as many as one in four.
It also takes place in Nigeria, Benin and Chad.
This week Jake Berry, the Conservative MP for Rossendale & Darwen, said he was shocked to learn girls in west African communities in Birmingham and London were victims too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510492/British-girls-young-10-face-harm-breast-ironing-stones-heated-hot-coals-ritual-imported-west-Africa.html#ixzz441PRxfRy0 -
Does this take place before, after or instead of FGM? And those who question the importation of such people are called all sorts of names.FrancisUrquhart said:
There should be no pissing about, no "cultural sensitivity" bollocks with this stuff.Moses_ said:What in gods name is wrong with these people.
Around 1,000 British girls face harm from the 'abhorrent' practice of breast ironing, ministers have warned. In the brutal procedure, hot objects [stones, a hammer or a spatula] are used to pound and beat girls' breasts to stop them growing in the belief it makes them less desirable and discourages premarital pregnancy. Breast ironing originated in Cameroon, where it affects as many as one in four.
It also takes place in Nigeria, Benin and Chad.
This week Jake Berry, the Conservative MP for Rossendale & Darwen, said he was shocked to learn girls in west African communities in Birmingham and London were victims too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510492/British-girls-young-10-face-harm-breast-ironing-stones-heated-hot-coals-ritual-imported-west-Africa.html#ixzz441PRxfRy0 -
In Indyref, the only positive campaigning for the union came in the last couple of days when the great clunking fist climbed back into the ring, and quite possibly won it for No. Nick Palmer is right. The campaign so far is largely negative and increasingly playing the man not the ball.Luckyguy1983 said:The problem with this thread, thoughtful and well written as it is, is that there isn't really a positive case for remaining. I don't really say that disparagingly - as an example, I passionately support keeping the UK together, but from the Scottish point of view, I would freely admit there wasn't a 'positive' case for Better Together in the Indyref.
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I wonder if we really should have had Stokes in before Morgan.0
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In fairness Morgan's strike rate was 137 which is not bad. I think that is a pretty good score and advantage England, just. A couple of early wickets would help.FrancisUrquhart said:I wonder if we really should have had Stokes in before Morgan.
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It just looked again that Morgan was a bit off the pace and is Stokes gets his eye in well the sky is the limit.DavidL said:
In fairness Morgan's strike rate was 137 which is not bad. I think that is a pretty good score and advantage England, just. A couple of early wickets would help.FrancisUrquhart said:I wonder if we really should have had Stokes in before Morgan.
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Yes, but England had to cover the possibility that they might have lost more wickets than they did. If they had lost a wicket, say Buttler with 3 to go who want you want to come in, Stokes or Morgan?FrancisUrquhart said:
It just looked again that Morgan was a bit off the pace and is Stokes gets his eye in well the sky is the limit.DavidL said:
In fairness Morgan's strike rate was 137 which is not bad. I think that is a pretty good score and advantage England, just. A couple of early wickets would help.FrancisUrquhart said:I wonder if we really should have had Stokes in before Morgan.
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Child abuse is still child abuse even if it is done with the parent's wishes. Weird cultural and/or religious practices should not come into it.FrancisUrquhart said:
There should be no pissing about, no "cultural sensitivity" bollocks with this stuff.Moses_ said:What in gods name is wrong with these people.
Around 1,000 British girls face harm from the 'abhorrent' practice of breast ironing, ministers have warned. In the brutal procedure, hot objects [stones, a hammer or a spatula] are used to pound and beat girls' breasts to stop them growing in the belief it makes them less desirable and discourages premarital pregnancy. Breast ironing originated in Cameroon, where it affects as many as one in four.
It also takes place in Nigeria, Benin and Chad.
This week Jake Berry, the Conservative MP for Rossendale & Darwen, said he was shocked to learn girls in west African communities in Birmingham and London were victims too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510492/British-girls-young-10-face-harm-breast-ironing-stones-heated-hot-coals-ritual-imported-west-Africa.html#ixzz441PRxfRy0 -
Germany vs England Betting Update
It seems I wasn't alone in suggesting here last night that the bookies were being a little generous in offering 5/1 against England winning tonight's friendly international against Germany, their time-honoured enemy. These odds have in the main been trimmed by a not insubstantial 20% to 4/1. As a consequence, the better value in now possibly to be found by backing SkyBet's 13/2 against England winning by the single goal - it seems most unlikely that they will win by two or more goals ..... miracles take a little longer.
I have, however invested a crispy oncer at 16/1, also with SkyBet on the exact final score being Germany 1 - 2 England. An unlikely outcome certainly, perhaps a 9/1 or 10/1 shot, but hardly a 16/1 chance in my view.
DYOR.0 -
Yes - see e,g, the speech I linked to ("click on "speeches" in the header).TCPoliticalBetting said:I agree with Nick on the need for positive messages from both.
Lance Forman was on BBC News and put forward the view that the positive side for out is that if we want the 21st century to be Britain's then we need to be nibble and be out.
Regarding Nick's "This means giving Alan Johnson a prominent role. He’s making plenty of speeches but they aren’t being reported." problem is that Alan is very short of the understanding of what the positives of the EU are beyond the few bullet points he is given by the PR. When challenged Alan does not have the depth of knowledge to defend each facile argument he makes be it on the "3 million" or the "security" or "immigration". But as I do want LEAVE I would welcome Alan to be made the leading man....
PS Has Alan actually made positive points for REMAIN?
Blackburn is of course right that having argued for a positive campaign I added what I thought was an effective negative message, if we were going to do that. We professionals try to swing both ways
. I'm not saying there should be no negative messages - only that there should be some of each. 0 -
Turned out to be a pretty good estimate.ydoethur said:
Anything over 140 should be enough against Sri Lanka the way they've been batting, and we should get 170 from here.FrancisUrquhart said:We are not playing a test match here lads...
Edit- oops, why didn't I keep my fat fingers still?0 -
Need a couple of early wickets here.0
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I'm stating the bleedin' obvious here, but it's all down to the fielding and the 'keeper now. Should be an exciting finish- I love this format of the game.DavidL said:
Turned out to be a pretty good estimate.ydoethur said:
Anything over 140 should be enough against Sri Lanka the way they've been batting, and we should get 170 from here.FrancisUrquhart said:We are not playing a test match here lads...
Edit- oops, why didn't I keep my fat fingers still?0 -
Dilshan gone....great start.0
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Surprisingly little debate of the Parris article, given how much interest it has generated elsewhere.
Both sides in the Brexit debate are trying to take something from it.
@JananGanesh: People think Katie Hopkins, Littlejohn etc are the columnists who "say what others won't dare" but, really, it's Parris.
But the definitive comment is perhaps this
@JohnRentoul: The case for Boris. @iainmartin1 puts it rather better than I did https://t.co/MafnoGdRHz https://t.co/ZdMOVCQMOl0 -
Just what Y Doethur ordered!FrancisUrquhart said:Need a couple of early wickets here.
Remind me again of what I said about Sri Lanka? Could I finally have made the right call in a cricket match?!0 -
Nice wicket for Jordan but 2 wides in his first over?0
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Yes, me too. Not a moment too soon either after their new "safety council" which is just a bunch of trumped up leftists banning and blocking non-approved opinions.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
I actually can't think of a worse way to run a business than Twitter has been over the last few years.0 -
Did they ever resolve that issue with the high profile right winger guy (can't think of his name, something like Nero) who got the ban hammer?MaxPB said:
Yes, me too. Not a moment too soon either after their new "safety council" which is just a bunch of trumped up leftists banning and blocking non-approved opinions.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
I actually can't think of a worse way to run a business than Twitter has been over the last few years.0 -
To get back to earlier posts on the subject of genital slang, the Sri Lankan batsmen are making a cock up of handling Willey.0
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Have the Indian bookmakers been on the blower?0
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To be honest, Nick, the chap whose judgement I trust most on this matter is me. I don't really give a toss what any of the four you mention say, nor any of the other deceiving buggers that you don't mention (e.g. Corbyn, Cameron, Osborne et al). I made my mind up many years ago based on what actually happens and not what professional dissemblers say happens.NickPalmer said:Incidentally, if we're talking about effective negative campaigning, I think Remain could reasonably run one on these lines:
Who are the best-known people who think you should vote Leave?
1. Nigel Farage
2. Boris Johnson
3. George Galloway
4. Donald Trump
Do you trust the judgment of any of them in deciding what's safest for Britain?0 -
I was right!TwistedFireStopper said:
I'm stating the bleedin' obvious here, but it's all down to the fielding and the 'keeper now. Should be an exciting finish- I love this format of the game.DavidL said:
Turned out to be a pretty good estimate.ydoethur said:
Anything over 140 should be enough against Sri Lanka the way they've been batting, and we should get 170 from here.FrancisUrquhart said:We are not playing a test match here lads...
Edit- oops, why didn't I keep my fat fingers still?0 -
Yeah, he got unbanned, but I don't think he got his verification back despite having almost 200k followers.FrancisUrquhart said:
Did they ever resolve that issue with the high profile right winger guy (can't think of his name, something like Nero) who got the ban hammer?MaxPB said:
Yes, me too. Not a moment too soon either after their new "safety council" which is just a bunch of trumped up leftists banning and blocking non-approved opinions.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
I actually can't think of a worse way to run a business than Twitter has been over the last few years.0 -
Are you thinking about Milo?FrancisUrquhart said:
Did they ever resolve that issue with the high profile right winger guy (can't think of his name, something like Nero) who got the ban hammer?MaxPB said:
Yes, me too. Not a moment too soon either after their new "safety council" which is just a bunch of trumped up leftists banning and blocking non-approved opinions.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
I actually can't think of a worse way to run a business than Twitter has been over the last few years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_Yiannopoulos
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/25/i-just-launched-the-best-podcast-ever-you-guys/0 -
This is good advice for Remain from Nick. They need to use all their non-Conservative people more. As for positivity, you can put a positive or negative slant on most arguments - if leaving the EU has some bad consequence then staying in must have the corresponding good one. It's a choice as to how one wants to pitch things.
Also Nick, Labour needs to be electable or every subject is going to be "a sordid squabble between rival right-wingers".0 -
Thats the guy @Nero. Just checked, he still hasn't got his "verified" status back.GeoffM said:
Are you thinking about Milo?FrancisUrquhart said:
Did they ever resolve that issue with the high profile right winger guy (can't think of his name, something like Nero) who got the ban hammer?MaxPB said:
Yes, me too. Not a moment too soon either after their new "safety council" which is just a bunch of trumped up leftists banning and blocking non-approved opinions.JosiasJessop said:I can see Twitter being in big trouble in a year or two.
I actually can't think of a worse way to run a business than Twitter has been over the last few years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_Yiannopoulos
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/25/i-just-launched-the-best-podcast-ever-you-guys/
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The challenge of creating a massive safe space online is the competing goals of creating a zone where anyone can speak and where anyone feels comfortable speaking. Perhaps the de-verify is a compromise: Yiannopoulos is still allowed to say whatever he wants, but the world also suspects that Twitter would rather he didn’t say it.
http://fusion.net/story/254067/milo-yiannopoulos-twitter-deverification/0 -
Find it incredible that Sri Lanka have never chased down 170 in T20. Given their impact on the 50 over game you would have presumed over the past 10+ years they would have chased that sort of total down.0
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Good afternoon, everyone.
I agree Twitter may be in trouble. I hope it recovers. I like the minimalist approach, and it's much more my style than Facebook.0 -
There are some odd claims in the speech from Alan Johnson. For example "because the provisions of the Treaty of Rome and its successors help protect the islanders from Argentinian aggression."NickPalmer said:
Yes - see e,g, the speech I linked to ("click on "speeches" in the header).TCPoliticalBetting said:I agree with Nick on the need for positive messages from both.
Lance Forman was on BBC News and put forward the view that the positive side for out is that if we want the 21st century to be Britain's then we need to be nibble and be out.
Regarding Nick's "This means giving Alan Johnson a prominent role. He’s making plenty of speeches but they aren’t being reported." problem is that Alan is very short of the understanding of what the positives of the EU are beyond the few bullet points he is given by the PR. When challenged Alan does not have the depth of knowledge to defend each facile argument he makes be it on the "3 million" or the "security" or "immigration". But as I do want LEAVE I would welcome Alan to be made the leading man....
PS Has Alan actually made positive points for REMAIN?
Blackburn is of course right that having argued for a positive campaign I added what I thought was an effective negative message, if we were going to do that. We professionals try to swing both ways. I'm not saying there should be no negative messages - only that there should be some of each.
How exactly did the Treaty of Rome protect the Falklands from invasion in 1982? I always understood that we had to send a British only Task Force to evict the Argentine invasion. But maybe Mr Johnson knows differently? I also thought that one of our Treaty of Rome signatories sold arms (Exocets) to the Argentinians that were used against us in the Falklands.
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The big problem is they don't really have an easy route to make money. It is my issue with so many of these free apps that don't seem to have any immediate way to monetize themMorris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
I agree Twitter may be in trouble. I hope it recovers. I like the minimalist approach, and it's much more my style than Facebook.
The WhatsApp approach was brilliant, make this thing 99c. Its basically nothing, but you already have been invested in it. Also the really crap freemium games. I hate them, but I completely understand why they are successful, getting people on the drip drip.
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They accept submissions by carrier pigeon then?Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
I agree Twitter may be in trouble. I hope it recovers. I like the minimalist approach, and it's much more my style than Facebook.
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I disagree, No won in Scotland by relentlessly plugging fear and the risks of breakaway and economic dangers, Remain needs to do the same. In referendums passion and positivity rarely are decisive what is decisive is people looking at the risks involved and the threat to their bank balance0
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Mr. D, how very dare you? I'll have you know almost instantaneous communication is possible thanks to the wonders of modern telegraphy.
Mr. Urquhart, free-to-play games are the work of Satan (it's also a description as accurate as joyriding, or happy-slapping).
Mr. Betting, well said.0 -
I was reading the other day about the company behind that Arny advertied one, the Mobile Strike, which is basically a reskin of Gods of War...the amount they have spent on advertising and the amount people then spend in-play is utterly utterly bonkers.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. D, how very dare you? I'll have you know almost instantaneous communication is possible thanks to the wonders of modern telegraphy.
Mr. Urquhart, free-to-play games are the work of Satan (it's also a description as accurate as joyriding, or happy-slapping).
Mr. Betting, well said.0 -
Mr. Urquhart, I forget the name, but other such games have had Liam Neeson, Kate Upton and Mariah Carey advertising.
And they're all full of tosh. It's pay to win, DLC-tastic.0 -
NUT to ballot for strike action:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-359050640 -
The PAY TO WIN seems incredibly underhand and unfair. Its one thing doing DLC's and the new thing episodic releases where you buy a season pass, but making it so basically you can't win at the game unless you dump a crap load of cash into it (and most people don't know that until they have dumped a small poo's worth of cash) seems wrong.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, I forget the name, but other such games have had Liam Neeson, Kate Upton and Mariah Carey advertising.
And they're all full of tosh. It's pay to win, DLC-tastic.0 -
Isn't that now a regular thing like Christmas and Easter?Morris_Dancer said:NUT to ballot for strike action:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-359050640 -
Or.....Morris_Dancer said:NUT to ballot for strike action:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35905064
Military wing of the Labour Party still cannot accept they lost the last election.0 -
My understanding is that Mitterrand immediately stood behind the UK, unlike the USA.TCPoliticalBetting said:
There are some odd claims in the speech from Alan Johnson. For example "because the provisions of the Treaty of Rome and its successors help protect the islanders from Argentinian aggression."NickPalmer said:
Yes - see e,g, the speech I linked to ("click on "speeches" in the header).TCPoliticalBetting said:I agree with Nick on the need for positive messages from both.
Lance Forman was on BBC News and put forward the view that the positive side for out is that if we want the 21st century to be Britain's then we need to be nibble and be out.
Regarding Nick's "This means giving Alan Johnson a prominent role. He’s making plenty of speeches but they aren’t being reported." problem is that Alan is very short of the understanding of what the positives of the EU are beyond the few bullet points he is given by the PR. When challenged Alan does not have the depth of knowledge to defend each facile argument he makes be it on the "3 million" or the "security" or "immigration". But as I do want LEAVE I would welcome Alan to be made the leading man....
PS Has Alan actually made positive points for REMAIN?
Blackburn is of course right that having argued for a positive campaign I added what I thought was an effective negative message, if we were going to do that. We professionals try to swing both ways. I'm not saying there should be no negative messages - only that there should be some of each.
How exactly did the Treaty of Rome protect the Falklands from invasion in 1982? I always understood that we had to send a British only Task Force to evict the Argentine invasion. But maybe Mr Johnson knows differently? I also thought that one of our Treaty of Rome signatories sold arms (Exocets) to the Argentinians that were used against us in the Falklands.0 -
From the speech Nick Palmer recommended from Alan Johnson. Here is what he says about the 1975 referendum.
“It’s worth mentioning two aspects from that campaign which resulted in an overwhelming majority to stay in the European Community. The first is to expose the nonsense that one sometimes hears from the Eurosceptics that the British people thought they were voting for a market. All the debate on both sides in 1975 was about political union. Indeed, the creation of a European Parliament was central to the argument.”
So what is the evidence that political union was the main theme of the 1975 referendum?
Here is a link to the text from the Government official leaflet.
http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm
It has 50 mentions of “market” and has no mention of the phrase “political union” it is just not there.
This is a blatent re-writing history. But since no one notices Alan Johnson, no one objects.0 -
Oh shit, Sri Lanka getting back into this.0
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Mr. Urquhart, I'd guess it's for the financially (but not intellectually) well-endowed, and for kids savvy enough to pester their parents but not sensible enough to see free-to-play is nonsense.
That said, one of the most irritating things about the Schwarzenegger advert is that he advocates using double the amount of resources (or more) necessary for any given military task, which is simply profligate idiocy.
On strikes: it is not necessarily unheard of for the NUT to advocate strike action.0 -
There is also no mention of "European Parliament" in that UK Govt leaflet of 1975.0
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'This is a blatent (sic) re-writing history'
Yes - he is just lying. Nothing changes. Lies 40 years ago, lies now.0 -
It seems a bit of a silly argument. The whole thing about people being tricked in 1975 is that it was an argument for having another referendum. Well, we're having that referendum so let's get on with it.TCPoliticalBetting said:From the speech Nick Palmer recommended from Alan Johnson. Here is what he says about the 1975 referendum.
“It’s worth mentioning two aspects from that campaign which resulted in an overwhelming majority to stay in the European Community. The first is to expose the nonsense that one sometimes hears from the Eurosceptics that the British people thought they were voting for a market. All the debate on both sides in 1975 was about political union. Indeed, the creation of a European Parliament was central to the argument.”
So what is the evidence that political union was the main theme of the 1975 referendum?
Here is a link to the text from the Government official leaflet.
http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm
It has 50 mentions of the “market” and has no mention of the phrase “political union” it is just not there.
This is a blatent re-writing history. But since no one notices Alan Johnson no one objects.0 -
But the Treaty of Rome did not stop Argentine aggression then.rcs1000 said:
My understanding is that Mitterrand immediately stood behind the UK, unlike the USA.TCPoliticalBetting said:
There are some odd claims in the speech from Alan Johnson. For example "because the provisions of the Treaty of Rome and its successors help protect the islanders from Argentinian aggression."NickPalmer said:
Yes - see e,g, the speech I linked to ("click on "speeches" in the header).TCPoliticalBetting said:I agree with Nick on the need for positive messages from both.
Lance Forman was on BBC News and put forward the view that the positive side for out is that if we want the 21st century to be Britain's then we need to be nibble and be out.
Regarding Nick's "This means giving Alan Johnson a prominent role. He’s making plenty of speeches but they aren’t being reported." problem is that Alan is very short of the understanding of what the positives of the EU are beyond the few bullet points he is given by the PR. When challenged Alan does not have the depth of knowledge to defend each facile argument he makes be it on the "3 million" or the "security" or "immigration". But as I do want LEAVE I would welcome Alan to be made the leading man....
PS Has Alan actually made positive points for REMAIN?
Blackburn is of course right that having argued for a positive campaign I added what I thought was an effective negative message, if we were going to do that. We professionals try to swing both ways. I'm not saying there should be no negative messages - only that there should be some of each.
How exactly did the Treaty of Rome protect the Falklands from invasion in 1982? I always understood that we had to send a British only Task Force to evict the Argentine invasion. But maybe Mr Johnson knows differently? I also thought that one of our Treaty of Rome signatories sold arms (Exocets) to the Argentinians that were used against us in the Falklands.
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Gets earlier every year. Must have something to do with climate change.Morris_Dancer said:NUT to ballot for strike action:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-359050640 -
We needed that wicket...0
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Mr. Saddened, maybe it's because it's just been the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox?
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Aaaah, that'll be it. We all know climate change is bollocks.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Saddened, maybe it's because it's just been the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox?
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You clearly know little about how the French helped following the Exocet attacks on the British fleet.TCPoliticalBetting said:
But the Treaty of Rome did not stop Argentine aggression then.rcs1000 said:
My understanding is that Mitterrand immediately stood behind the UK, unlike the USA.TCPoliticalBetting said:
There are some odd claims in the speech from Alan Johnson. For example "because the provisions of the Treaty of Rome and its successors help protect the islanders from Argentinian aggression."NickPalmer said:
Yes - see e,g, the speech I linked to ("click on "speeches" in the header).TCPoliticalBetting said:I agree with Nick on the need for positive messages from both.
Lance Forman was on BBC News and put forward the view that the positive side for out is that if we want the 21st century to be Britain's then we need to be nibble and be out.
Regarding Nick's "This means giving Alan Johnson a prominent role. He’s making plenty of speeches but they aren’t being reported." problem is that Alan is very short of the understanding of what the positives of the EU are beyond the few bullet points he is given by the PR. When challenged Alan does not have the depth of knowledge to defend each facile argument he makes be it on the "3 million" or the "security" or "immigration". But as I do want LEAVE I would welcome Alan to be made the leading man....
PS Has Alan actually made positive points for REMAIN?
Blackburn is of course right that having argued for a positive campaign I added what I thought was an effective negative message, if we were going to do that. We professionals try to swing both ways. I'm not saying there should be no negative messages - only that there should be some of each.
How exactly did the Treaty of Rome protect the Falklands from invasion in 1982? I always understood that we had to send a British only Task Force to evict the Argentine invasion. But maybe Mr Johnson knows differently? I also thought that one of our Treaty of Rome signatories sold arms (Exocets) to the Argentinians that were used against us in the Falklands.
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Johnson is stating that voters had presented to them by both sides that we were staying/getting into a political union. Where is the evidence?tlg86 said:
It seems a bit of a silly argument. The whole thing about people being tricked in 1975 is that it was an argument for having another referendum. Well, we're having that referendum so let's get on with it.TCPoliticalBetting said:From the speech Nick Palmer recommended from Alan Johnson. Here is what he says about the 1975 referendum.
“It’s worth mentioning two aspects from that campaign which resulted in an overwhelming majority to stay in the European Community. The first is to expose the nonsense that one sometimes hears from the Eurosceptics that the British people thought they were voting for a market. All the debate on both sides in 1975 was about political union. Indeed, the creation of a European Parliament was central to the argument.”
So what is the evidence that political union was the main theme of the 1975 referendum?
Here is a link to the text from the Government official leaflet.
http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm
It has 50 mentions of the “market” and has no mention of the phrase “political union” it is just not there.
This is a blatent re-writing history. But since no one notices Alan Johnson no one objects.
0 -
Proper poncey boots time in the cricket...0
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Apparently the Belgium security guard wasn't murdered while walking his dog. He was found dead in his isolated farm house.0
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England need a wicket in the cricket ASAP.0
