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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories are very lucky the Lib Dems didn’t accept George Osborne’s coupon deal
He says George Osborne proposed a so-called ‘coupon election’ deal with the Lib Dems, whereby up to 50 Tory MPs would have been written off, ordered to make way for Lib Dems.
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George is crap0
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is Chancellor of the Exchequer, and SECOND Lord of the TreasuryAlanbrooke said:George is crap
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Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?0
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I'd still take a bullet for Dave and George.Alanbrooke said:George is crap
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They'd let you.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd still take a bullet for Dave and George.Alanbrooke said:George is crap
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TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd still take a bullet for Dave and George.Alanbrooke said:George is crap
Yeah, but afterwards they'd say it was your fault and anyway you wanted the gun fired.
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He was very good, many journalists tweeted his passionate almost tearful closing argument about being committed to welfare reform irrespective of his career.
Worth having a scroll through Twitter
He's not making a Commons speech.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
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Does anyone believe that this was a serious possibility, as opposed to a long term trap for the Lib Dems?
I wonder when this was allegedly talked about. Early days I suspect when team building was the priority.0 -
This is what Mike thought.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
One conclusion from IDS on Marr - CON MPs who ousted him in 2003 had good judgement. IDS simply fails to convince.0 -
Could you grab the gun and turn it on Boris Johnson too, ta ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd still take a bullet for Dave and George.Alanbrooke said:George is crap
#Thinkofmybetfairposition0 -
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Looks like the Saffers are going to win a game. Not a huge NRR though.0
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This does have the ring of something proposed with the intention of having it rejected, thus making a full on campaign in LD/C marginals fair game.DavidL said:Does anyone believe that this was a serious possibility, as opposed to a long term trap for the Lib Dems?
I wonder when this was allegedly talked about. Early days I suspect when team building was the priority.0 -
Osborne is a dripping wet:
He says George Osborne proposed a so-called 'coupon election' deal with the Lib Dems, whereby up to 50 Tory MPs would have been written off, ordered to make way for Lib Dems.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3500868/How-bully-Osborne-tried-fire-IDS-four-years-ago-hatched-secret-plan-form-second-term-Coalition-Lib-Dems.html0 -
I think it very sporting of the Conservatives, in the absence of any proper Opposition, to provide their own alternatives.
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Whether it's true or not is beside the point - neither I nor dyingswan can say whether it is. The point is it's an unsubtle attempt to rubbish Duncan-Smith whilst appearing to offer an even-handed 'more in sorrow than in anger' eulogy. I'm not sure what the point of it was - there's no-one on PB daft enough not to decipher it. Rottenborough's grumpy later response in the thread said the same thing in a far more honest and succinct way.SouthamObserver said:
One man's smear is another man's truth.Luckyguy1983 said:
Plato, you've been in PR, you surely know a smear when you read one.Plato_Says said:Well said
dyingswan said:IDS should go with our thanks,respect and sympathy. A decent religious man who wanted to do his best. Having listened to him on Marr I am quite certain that the pressures of the job overwhelmed him.The position that he held requires a very thick skin. I do not think that he has one. His friends say that he is passionate about his views on welfare. That is usually a euphemism for thin skinned and angry. Gordon Brown was described as passionate when he allegedly hurled mobiles at staff.
To do the job that IDS did you have to put up with the constant impugning of your own personal morality by clamant groups, disability charities and opponents. I can almost hear his wife imploring him not to take things personally but to remember that he was only enacting public policy. We get the merest hint on PB of the barrage of abuse that ministers face by reading the deeply unpleasant rants of our Caledonian friend.
So thank you IDS. You will feel free today. Free to campaign for Brexit without the heavy burden of running a difficult department.
Stephen Crabb will bring pragmatism to a difficult job. I wish him every success.0 -
He told us explicitly what many of us have suspected for a while - Osborne's sole interest is in looking after the interests of the Tory client state. If you don't vote Tory, you don't matter.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
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Embarrassing isn't it when Afghanistan's concede less runs against the Saffer than England's bowlers did.DavidL said:Looks like the Saffers are going to win a game. Not a huge NRR though.
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Summer 2012 apparently, from what Laws said on Marr.DavidL said:Does anyone believe that this was a serious possibility, as opposed to a long term trap for the Lib Dems?
I wonder when this was allegedly talked about. Early days I suspect when team building was the priority.0 -
And say that it never would have happened if they had had greater email snooping powers.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd still take a bullet for Dave and George.Alanbrooke said:George is crap
Yeah, but afterwards they'd say it was your fault and anyway you wanted the gun fired.0 -
A very interesting 'what if?' I agree that the Lib Dem activists would not have been happy about such an arrangement, just as they weren't happy about going into coalition with the Tories in the first place. But I wonder, with the benefit of hindsight, if they wish they'd taken the Tories up on the offer?0
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I read the Laws piece linked to earlier in the Mail. Ok, it is bits taken out of a book, not necessarily in any particular order, but it came across as incoherent tittle tattle.ThreeQuidder said:
This does have the ring of something proposed with the intention of having it rejected, thus making a full on campaign in LD/C marginals fair game.DavidL said:Does anyone believe that this was a serious possibility, as opposed to a long term trap for the Lib Dems?
I wonder when this was allegedly talked about. Early days I suspect when team building was the priority.0 -
Lib Dem supporter not convinced by right wing Tory shocker.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is what Mike thought.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
One conclusion from IDS on Marr - CON MPs who ousted him in 2003 had good judgement. IDS simply fails to convince.0 -
SouthamObserver said:
He told us explicitly what many of us have suspected for a while - Osborne's sole interest is in looking after the interests of the Tory client state. If you don't vote Tory, you don't matter.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
Labour does the same.
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God - that would be been an appalling misjudgement of the public mood.
Master strategist?!0 -
This coupon proposal from Osborne just piles up those against him. All those Conservative MPs that won seats from the LDs or were in marginals defending against the LDs can now look at Osborne in a new light!0
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Labour is not in power.MarkHopkins said:SouthamObserver said:
He told us explicitly what many of us have suspected for a while - Osborne's sole interest is in looking after the interests of the Tory client state. If you don't vote Tory, you don't matter.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
Labour does the same.
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If you were convinced by IDS then. I'd suggest, that you lack ritical judgemen.Indigo said:
Lib Dem supporter not convinced by right wing Tory shocker.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is what Mike thought.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
One conclusion from IDS on Marr - CON MPs who ousted him in 2003 had good judgement. IDS simply fails to convince.0 -
It was floated I recall from Nick Boles. In a book or pamphlet.DavidL said:Does anyone believe that this was a serious possibility, as opposed to a long term trap for the Lib Dems?
I wonder when this was allegedly talked about. Early days I suspect when team building was the priority.
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But they made it an art form whilst they were, and would do so again (with whatever widow's mite is left in the kitty) the minute they got back in.SouthamObserver said:
Labour is not in power.MarkHopkins said:SouthamObserver said:
He told us explicitly what many of us have suspected for a while - Osborne's sole interest is in looking after the interests of the Tory client state. If you don't vote Tory, you don't matter.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
Labour does the same.0 -
Afternoon all
Hard to argue with this. Clegg "sold" the Coalition to the LD party in 2010 on the basis it was a "one off" to deal with an exceptional situation and on that basis I, and many LDs, accepted it.
Had Clegg tried to forge Coalition 2.0 on the basis of a coupon deal, it would have torn the LDs apart just as the formation of the National Liberals did under John Simon.
So that's one deal - two parties split apart. Sounds like a good idea.0 -
I protest! You would not give GGO or any of his works to a dog. It would cause needless suffering for a harmless sentient being.Alanbrooke said:
I wouldn't even wish Osborne on a harmful non-sentient being like John McDonnell.
Edited because iPhone posting sucks.0 -
On Marr Laws said it was just after the Omnishambles budget when the Tories were very worried about losing the next election. To Ed Miliband :-)DavidL said:Does anyone believe that this was a serious possibility, as opposed to a long term trap for the Lib Dems?
I wonder when this was allegedly talked about. Early days I suspect when team building was the priority.
Was this the period when Dave made his referendum promise too?
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At last I have found the fabled link betwen these budget rows and the EU.
This disability row could have been avoided if our contribution to the EU was not increasing so fast. A few years ago Osborne and Cameron said they were going to resist £1.7bn extra.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/31/britain-eu-contribution-rise-quadruple-cameron
Clearly they did not resist hard enough and needed a woman with a handbag to sort it out.0 -
I watched the highlights package yesterday. England's bowling was truly woeful. Wide and in the slot, the South Africans let them off lightly.TheScreamingEagles said:
Embarrassing isn't it when Afghanistan's concede less runs against the Saffer than England's bowlers did.DavidL said:Looks like the Saffers are going to win a game. Not a huge NRR though.
I think what this tournament is showing between the more closely matched teams is that setting a score is seriously tricky. Runs on the board is not really working (the NZ/Aus game being an exception).0 -
The flipside of not accepting a coupon was for the LDs to get out of government well in advance of the election.
What on earth were they thinking by staying in to the end?0 -
I see Wayne Rooney has been doing his best to confirm the stereotype that you can take the lad out of Liverpool, but ...0
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I was impressed by his sincerity.MikeSmithson said:
If you were convinced by IDS then. I'd suggest, that you lack ritical judgemen.Indigo said:
Lib Dem supporter not convinced by right wing Tory shocker.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is what Mike thought.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
One conclusion from IDS on Marr - CON MPs who ousted him in 2003 had good judgement. IDS simply fails to convince.0 -
So it turns out they are just like the Tories :-)Luckyguy1983 said:
But they made it an art form whilst they were, and would do so again (with whatever widow's mite is left in the kitty) the minute they got back in.SouthamObserver said:
Labour is not in power.MarkHopkins said:SouthamObserver said:
He told us explicitly what many of us have suspected for a while - Osborne's sole interest is in looking after the interests of the Tory client state. If you don't vote Tory, you don't matter.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
Labour does the same.
I thought the Tories always put country before party. That's certainly what I have been told on here enough times.
Given that most people do not vote Tory, IDS saying live on TV that the Chancellor believes you do not matter if you are not a Tory voter is not helpful, to say the least
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RodCrosby said:
The flipside of not accepting a coupon was for the LDs to get out of government well in advance of the election.
What on earth were they thinking by staying in to the end?
I'm not sure it would have made much difference to the result by then.
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No, no, it was all Osborne's fault, everything is. Haven't you read the script?TCPoliticalBetting said:
It was floated I recall from Nick Boles. In a book or pamphlet.DavidL said:Does anyone believe that this was a serious possibility, as opposed to a long term trap for the Lib Dems?
I wonder when this was allegedly talked about. Early days I suspect when team building was the priority.0 -
Iain Dale
"he’s incredibly popular at Conservative constituency association events. They are the same people who are highly suspicious of George Osborne, who they’ve never quite warmed to."
"One consequence of this resignation is confirmation that the Downing Street fear factor is on the wane. I was at Michael Ashcroft’s 70th birthday party last Saturday where I encountered a Minister who had disobeyed Downing Street’s instruction not to attend. “You’ll be on a little list,” I joshed. “I really couldn’t give a toss,” came the reply. And it was heartfelt.
Yet more evidence that power is gradually ebbing away from Cameron and Osborne. The question is, who is the power ebbing to?"
http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/03/iain-dale-duncan-smiths-friday-night-call-to-priti.html0 -
Because it's what we said we would do. In 2010, the LDs to the Coalition with the Conservatives for the duration of the Parliament. That shackled us to the Conservatives and the Conservatives to the LDs.RodCrosby said:The flipside of not accepting a coupon was for the LDs to get out of government well in advance of the election.
What on earth were they thinking by staying in to the end?
Imagine the vitriol the party would have faced had it walked out in 2012 for example. I thought it much more likely the Conservatives would walk out on the Coalition and try to go it alone.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.0 -
They could have got out in January 2015 or some such. Or at the dissolution even.stodge said:
Because it's what we said we would do. In 2010, the LDs to the Coalition with the Conservatives for the duration of the Parliament. That shackled us to the Conservatives and the Conservatives to the LDs.RodCrosby said:The flipside of not accepting a coupon was for the LDs to get out of government well in advance of the election.
What on earth were they thinking by staying in to the end?
Imagine the vitriol the party would have faced had it walked out in 2012 for example. I thought it much more likely the Conservatives would walk out on the Coalition and try to go it alone.
Staying in through the election [absent a coupon] made no sense at all.0 -
Hopi Sen
Our Trade Union spokesman bought a house w £250k from his union's fund for sick miners & won't say if he repaid it? https://t.co/ijqHHPUX96
Read the whole thread, it's appalling stuff0 -
Osborne's now suffering from being in the same job too long. Too many of his chickens are coming home to roost. he should have moved on post GE.0
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"they Lib Dems would have been portrayed as Tory lapdogs for a generation"
They already are! They pop up now and then saying "look what we stopped" as if the coalition wasn't already doing heinous damage to things like the NHS with a LibDems minister writing the preface to the bill. The LibDems MPs voted more loyally fir Tory bills than Tory MPs did.
Has a political party ever collapsed into a black hole as quickly as the LibDems did?0 -
Last I read on this 1/3 of Conservative MPs were also landlords. They will of course overlook Osborne's changes to their wallet.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
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Give Labour under Corbyn a little more timeRochdalePioneers said:"they Lib Dems would have been portrayed as Tory lapdogs for a generation"
They already are! They pop up now and then saying "look what we stopped" as if the coalition wasn't already doing heinous damage to things like the NHS with a LibDems minister writing the preface to the bill. The LibDems MPs voted more loyally fir Tory bills than Tory MPs did.
Has a political party ever collapsed into a black hole as quickly as the LibDems did?
More seriously, yes, the Liberals went from leading a government in 1922 (technically) having 156 seats in. 1923, to having just 40 seats and no prospect of a return to power by 1925. And that wasn't as low as it went before the Second World War either. They were reduced to 21 seats by 1935, most of which were held in the absence of Conservative candidates.0 -
Also, in the detail it is revealed these 17 buy-to-let properties are former council houses on an estate. So much for Thatcher's dream of widening home ownership.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.0 -
Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.0
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Boles is close to Osborne so i would expect him to be in favour before publication. Fact is that this group at the top of the party were negotiating away the chances of fellow Conservatives.DavidL said:
No, no, it was all Osborne's fault, everything is. Haven't you read the script?TCPoliticalBetting said:
It was floated I recall from Nick Boles. In a book or pamphlet.DavidL said:Does anyone believe that this was a serious possibility, as opposed to a long term trap for the Lib Dems?
I wonder when this was allegedly talked about. Early days I suspect when team building was the priority.
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A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
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In the same way that Tony is a Tory, George and Dave are Liberal Democrats.SouthamObserver said:
So it turns out they are just like the Tories :-)Luckyguy1983 said:
But they made it an art form whilst they were, and would do so again (with whatever widow's mite is left in the kitty) the minute they got back in.SouthamObserver said:
Labour is not in power.MarkHopkins said:SouthamObserver said:
He told us explicitly what many of us have suspected for a while - Osborne's sole interest is in looking after the interests of the Tory client state. If you don't vote Tory, you don't matter.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
Labour does the same.
I thought the Tories always put country before party. That's certainly what I have been told on here enough times.
Given that most people do not vote Tory, IDS saying live on TV that the Chancellor believes you do not matter if you are not a Tory voter is not helpful, to say the least
If either of them vanished and were replaced by Nick Clegg almost no one would notice except for a slight increase in the sanctimony level.0 -
I share your view. Having seen the effects of a dominant CFO in a FTSE company ride roughshod over all other departments including cutting sales people who were generating provable profits for the company. Mike may not have seen that happen in the private sector.Plato_Says said:I was impressed by his sincerity.
MikeSmithson said:
If you were convinced by IDS then. I'd suggest, that you lack ritical judgemen.Indigo said:
Lib Dem supporter not convinced by right wing Tory shocker.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is what Mike thought.FrancisUrquhart said:Missed I[E]Ds Marr interview, did he blow up?
One conclusion from IDS on Marr - CON MPs who ousted him in 2003 had good judgement. IDS simply fails to convince.0 -
On my former council estate, prices have spiked alarmingly. A property worth £95,000 last year is now being sold with an asking price of £119,000. At the same time, a house sold last year for 95 has just beenput out to rent for £700 a month. Last year it would have been £550.rottenborough said:
Also, in the detail it is revealed these 17 buy-to-let properties are former council houses on an estate. So much for Thatcher's dream of widening home ownership.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
Something is going very wrong somewhere. My guess is BTL landlords who have incorporated already are looking to max out on purchases before the rules change, and as these are solid, three bed semis with gardens , ideal starter homes, they are being fought over fiercely.
But I don't think it will end well. That woman with seventeen houses is (a) a fool (b) surely going to have to sell. That could well see prices crashing and rents spiralling.
A well-meaning policy badly implemented with disastrous results; cf. academies, foundation trusts, pasty tax, HS2, Forestry Commission...0 -
Is Osborne going to sue David Laws for libel if it is untrue?RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
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Is this doesn't make money in the same way Amazon doesn't make money, everything is reinvested?FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
People continuously and disingenuously bitch about Amazon not paying taxes, but it has never made a profit, Bezos' policy has always been about reinvesting everything they make, which is how they have gone from no where to the dominant force in multiple marketplaces in 21 years.0 -
Not worth the effort I suspect. Similar to the whole pig story.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Is Osborne going to sue David Laws for libel if it is untrue?RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
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Imagine the mess Cameron would be in if Labour were now being led by a credible PM-in-waiting.
As it is...0 -
And run the risk that some judge says in open court, with the world's media looking on, that it IS true. Even Osborne isn't that bigger fool.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Is Osborne going to sue David Laws for libel if it is untrue?RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
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I think it fair to say that at present party affilliations are more transient and fluid than any period since the 1930s, even exceeding the formation of the SDP. Where it all goes remains to be seen. Surely we need AV more than ever...ydoethur said:
Give Labour under Corbyn a little more timeRochdalePioneers said:"they Lib Dems would have been portrayed as Tory lapdogs for a generation"
They already are! They pop up now and then saying "look what we stopped" as if the coalition wasn't already doing heinous damage to things like the NHS with a LibDems minister writing the preface to the bill. The LibDems MPs voted more loyally fir Tory bills than Tory MPs did.
Has a political party ever collapsed into a black hole as quickly as the LibDems did?
More seriously, yes, the Liberals went from leading a government in 1922 (technically) having 156 seats in. 1923, to having just 40 seats and no prospect of a return to power by 1925. And that wasn't as low as it went before the Second World War either. They were reduced to 21 seats by 1935, most of which were held in the absence of Conservative candidates.0 -
RobD said:
Not worth the effort I suspect. Similar to the whole pig story.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Is Osborne going to sue David Laws for libel if it is untrue?RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
Some of the the Osborne hate stuff being posted on here is ludicrous
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Even more bizarrely, this couple don't own their own home. They rent.ydoethur said:
On my former council estate, prices have spiked alarmingly. A property worth £95,000 last year is now being sold with an asking price of £119,000. At the same time, a house sold last year for 95 has just beenput out to rent for £700 a month. Last year it would have been £550.rottenborough said:
Also, in the detail it is revealed these 17 buy-to-let properties are former council houses on an estate. So much for Thatcher's dream of widening home ownership.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
Something is going very wrong somewhere. My guess is BTL landlords who have incorporated already are looking to max out on purchases before the rules change, and as these are solid, three bed semis with gardens , ideal starter homes, they are being fought over fiercely.
But I don't think it will end well. That woman with seventeen houses is (a) a fool (b) surely going to have to sell. That could well see prices crashing and rents spiralling.
A well-meaning policy badly implemented with disastrous results; cf. academies, foundation trusts, pasty tax, HS2, Forestry Commission...0 -
So up to their eyeballs? Ridiculous, no one to blame but themselves.rottenborough said:
Even more bizarrely, this couple don't own their own home. They rent.ydoethur said:
On my former council estate, prices have spiked alarmingly. A property worth £95,000 last year is now being sold with an asking price of £119,000. At the same time, a house sold last year for 95 has just beenput out to rent for £700 a month. Last year it would have been £550.rottenborough said:
Also, in the detail it is revealed these 17 buy-to-let properties are former council houses on an estate. So much for Thatcher's dream of widening home ownership.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
Something is going very wrong somewhere. My guess is BTL landlords who have incorporated already are looking to max out on purchases before the rules change, and as these are solid, three bed semis with gardens , ideal starter homes, they are being fought over fiercely.
But I don't think it will end well. That woman with seventeen houses is (a) a fool (b) surely going to have to sell. That could well see prices crashing and rents spiralling.
A well-meaning policy badly implemented with disastrous results; cf. academies, foundation trusts, pasty tax, HS2, Forestry Commission...0 -
Well you may say that Mr. Laws is telling an untruth, bending the truth, or telling an outright wopper of a lie. In that case Cammo and co will go to the law to get redress. But I bet they don't!RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
0 -
They don't have to go to the law. A lack of action doesn't mean it is true.MikeK said:
Well you may say that Mr. Laws is telling an untruth, bending the truth, or telling an outright wopper of a lie. In that case Cammo and co will go to the law to get redress. But I bet they don't!RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
-1 -
Well he also confirms in his book (written well before the latest flare up) that IDS was driven by a desire to improve the welfare system but was consistently and fatally blocked and undermined by Osborne and the Treasury.RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
0 -
It would have been more sensible for Osborne to back AV that way Tory and LD voters could have preferences each other and any Tories defecting to UKIP could have put the Tory candidate as their second preference. The Tories won under FPTP anyway in 2015, though under AV the majority would likely have been higher but in 2020 with a rising UKIP vote post a narrow Remain win AV could make the difference between a hung parliament and a Tory majority0
-
MineForNothing
Opinium Survey - EU referendum: % who say they will "definitely" vote
Those backing Remain - 59%
Those backing Leave - 76%
#Brexit0 -
I expect they sold their own place to raise the capital for 17 deposits. They seem very highly geared financially. If the house market goes down they will go bankrupt and the houses will be auctioned. Likely to be bargins fairly shortly.rottenborough said:
Even more bizarrely, this couple don't own their own home. They rent.ydoethur said:
On my former council estate, prices have spiked alarmingly. A property worth £95,000 last year is now being sold with an asking price of £119,000. At the same time, a house sold last year for 95 has just beenput out to rent for £700 a month. Last year it would have been £550.rottenborough said:
Also, in the detail it is revealed these 17 buy-to-let properties are former council houses on an estate. So much for Thatcher's dream of widening home ownership.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
Something is going very wrong somewhere. My guess is BTL landlords who have incorporated already are looking to max out on purchases before the rules change, and as these are solid, three bed semis with gardens , ideal starter homes, they are being fought over fiercely.
But I don't think it will end well. That woman with seventeen houses is (a) a fool (b) surely going to have to sell. That could well see prices crashing and rents spiralling.
A well-meaning policy badly implemented with disastrous results; cf. academies, foundation trusts, pasty tax, HS2, Forestry Commission...0 -
Then they are doubly idiots. I had the option of buying a second house last year but I turned it down because that would have left me with too little liquid capital and my first priority had to be buying a house for myself as that cut my monthly housing bill in half.
As it happens I have now inherited a house from my mother anyway, so it would have been feasible, but you don't spend money you haven't got buying houses for other people to live in and spending far more than you need to on rent. Absolutely moronic.
She seems to view it as a charitable effort. In that case, let her incorporate as a housing association and ask for donations to cover the costs, and pay herself a salary in the normal way to run it.
Osborne's clearly right (for once) that the system is broken. It's just his reforms seem to be making it worse.rottenborough said:Even more bizarrely, this couple don't own their own home. They rent.
0 -
that's more than 100% or are some backing leave and remain?Plato_Says said:MineForNothing
Opinium Survey - EU referendum: % who say they will "definitely" vote
Those backing Remain - 59%
Those backing Leave - 76%
#Brexit0 -
.0
-
MikeK said:
Well you may say that Mr. Laws is telling an untruth, bending the truth, or telling an outright wopper of a lie. In that case Cammo and co will go to the law to get redress. But I bet they don't!RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
Humbled ex LD minister writes book to make a bit of dosh.. You will see it on a few remainder shelves in bookshops or more likely at car boot sales..
0 -
Its traditional activity for NUM leaders.Plato_Says said:Hopi Sen
Our Trade Union spokesman bought a house w £250k from his union's fund for sick miners & won't say if he repaid it? https://t.co/ijqHHPUX96
Read the whole thread, it's appalling stuff
Start with a big union and a small house and finish with a small union and a big house.
0 -
It is the % backing each side who gave said they will definitely vote.SquareRoot said:
that's more than 100% or are some backing leave and remain?Plato_Says said:MineForNothing
Opinium Survey - EU referendum: % who say they will "definitely" vote
Those backing Remain - 59%
Those backing Leave - 76%
#Brexit
0 -
I've deleted the article, it's the previous one
Today's http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/20/britons-on-europe-survey-results-opinium-poll-referendumSquareRoot said:
that's more than 100% or are some backing leave and remain?Plato_Says said:MineForNothing
Opinium Survey - EU referendum: % who say they will "definitely" vote
Those backing Remain - 59%
Those backing Leave - 76%
#Brexit0 -
Kept saying that and was told I was posting rubbish. A coupon electrion would have been B&*%$y Awful Idea for the reasons which Laws gave. It’s clear now, though that Clegg should have pulled the LibDems out in the Autumn of 2014.RodCrosby said:The flipside of not accepting a coupon was for the LDs to get out of government well in advance of the election.
What on earth were they thinking by staying in to the end?0 -
Is he hoping for sympathy:FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
' Jonathan Grant, 36, is facing an increasing tax bill on his four properties in London and Berkshire from next year.
He hopes that political ambition might prompt an about-turn by George Osborne, who will need the votes of “mainly Conservative” landlord investors.
“I think he might change his mind if he wants to be Prime Minister,” said Mr Grant.
“I was very disappointed that there was no reversal on stamp duty. I was looking at buying a block up north somewhere, but I’ll now have to pay the 3pc stamp duty surcharge on that so I probably won’t do it,” he said. '
However will the North survive without his investment ?
0 -
Interesting, useful for my guesstimate model. TPlato_Says said:MineForNothing
Opinium Survey - EU referendum: % who say they will "definitely" vote
Those backing Remain - 59%
Those backing Leave - 76%
#Brexit
0 -
The heart bleeds for this poor soul.another_richard said:
Is he hoping for sympathy:FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
' Jonathan Grant, 36, is facing an increasing tax bill on his four properties in London and Berkshire from next year.
He hopes that political ambition might prompt an about-turn by George Osborne, who will need the votes of “mainly Conservative” landlord investors.
“I think he might change his mind if he wants to be Prime Minister,” said Mr Grant.
“I was very disappointed that there was no reversal on stamp duty. I was looking at buying a block up north somewhere, but I’ll now have to pay the 3pc stamp duty surcharge on that so I probably won’t do it,” he said. '
However will the North survive without his investment ?
0 -
No. The denomimators are different so they shouldnt add up to 100%SquareRoot said:
that's more than 100% or are some backing leave and remain?Plato_Says said:MineForNothing
Opinium Survey - EU referendum: % who say they will "definitely" vote
Those backing Remain - 59%
Those backing Leave - 76%
#Brexit
The problem with all this analysis is that differential rates of turnout are already weighted into polls.0 -
When Osborne made the offer the Tories were in full panic mode. Cameron made the EU referendum promise at around the same time.OldKingCole said:
Kept saying that and was told I was posting rubbish. A coupon electrion would have been B&*%$y Awful Idea for the reasons which Laws gave. It’s clear now, though that Clegg should have pulled the LibDems out in the Autumn of 2014.RodCrosby said:The flipside of not accepting a coupon was for the LDs to get out of government well in advance of the election.
What on earth were they thinking by staying in to the end?
0 -
What interest does Laws have to lie about it, seeing his political career is over??RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
0 -
Lavery received the £250,000 'loan' back in 1994.Plato_Says said:Hopi Sen
Our Trade Union spokesman bought a house w £250k from his union's fund for sick miners & won't say if he repaid it? https://t.co/ijqHHPUX96
Read the whole thread, it's appalling stuff
You'd get a mighty big house for that sort of money back then in the North-East.
0 -
To be fair to Osborne one of the big issues with council house sales has been that so many of them have very soon ended up in the hands of landlords, their original buyers having sold them on for a hefty profit. This is particularly the case in London. One way to stop that is to make it much less attractive to be a landlord. With housing association properties soon to be available it's important for the government not to be seen to be providing little more than a get rich quick scheme.foxinsoxuk said:
I expect they sold their own place to raise the capital for 17 deposits. They seem very highly geared financially. If the house market goes down they will go bankrupt and the houses will be auctioned. Likely to be bargins fairly shortly.rottenborough said:
Even more bizarrely, this couple don't own their own home. They rent.ydoethur said:
On my former council estate, prices have spiked alarmingly. A property worth £95,000 last year is now being sold with an asking price of £119,000. At the same time, a house sold last year for 95 has just beenput out to rent for £700 a month. Last year it would have been £550.rottenborough said:
Also, in the detail it is revealed these 17 buy-to-let properties are former council houses on an estate. So much for Thatcher's dream of widening home ownership.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
Something is going very wrong somewhere. My guess is BTL landlords who have incorporated already are looking to max out on purchases before the rules change, and as these are solid, three bed semis with gardens , ideal starter homes, they are being fought over fiercely.
But I don't think it will end well. That woman with seventeen houses is (a) a fool (b) surely going to have to sell. That could well see prices crashing and rents spiralling.
A well-meaning policy badly implemented with disastrous results; cf. academies, foundation trusts, pasty tax, HS2, Forestry Commission...
0 -
"Being in power” is, at bottom, the Tory Party’s raison d’être. Above that there are two factions. “Pull up the ladder, Jack", aka Thatcherism, and "nobless oblge", aka Lady Bountiful, which IDS is trying to sort of sanctify with his “care for the less fortunate”.RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
0 -
IDS's grand scheme for Universal Credit has had a long gestation period, almost as long as WW2, and yet it is not rolled out.0
-
That’s turning out well, too!SouthamObserver said:
When Osborne made the offer the Tories were in full panic mode. Cameron made the EU referendum promise at around the same time.OldKingCole said:
Kept saying that and was told I was posting rubbish. A coupon electrion would have been B&*%$y Awful Idea for the reasons which Laws gave. It’s clear now, though that Clegg should have pulled the LibDems out in the Autumn of 2014.RodCrosby said:The flipside of not accepting a coupon was for the LDs to get out of government well in advance of the election.
What on earth were they thinking by staying in to the end?0 -
You'd have got a mighty big house in most of London for £250,000 back then. And you'd be sitting on a £1 million plus profit now easily.another_richard said:
Lavery received the £250,000 'loan' back in 1994.Plato_Says said:Hopi Sen
Our Trade Union spokesman bought a house w £250k from his union's fund for sick miners & won't say if he repaid it? https://t.co/ijqHHPUX96
Read the whole thread, it's appalling stuff
You'd get a mighty big house for that sort of money back then in the North-East.
0 -
Well that anecdote confirms that the 3% stamp duty is having an appropriate effect...another_richard said:
Is he hoping for sympathy:FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
' Jonathan Grant, 36, is facing an increasing tax bill on his four properties in London and Berkshire from next year.
He hopes that political ambition might prompt an about-turn by George Osborne, who will need the votes of “mainly Conservative” landlord investors.
“I think he might change his mind if he wants to be Prime Minister,” said Mr Grant.
“I was very disappointed that there was no reversal on stamp duty. I was looking at buying a block up north somewhere, but I’ll now have to pay the 3pc stamp duty surcharge on that so I probably won’t do it,” he said. '
However will the North survive without his investment ?0 -
Yep - Cameron opened up one of hell of a big can of worms when he decided that the Tories might lose to Ed Miliband.OldKingCole said:
That’s turning out well, too!SouthamObserver said:
When Osborne made the offer the Tories were in full panic mode. Cameron made the EU referendum promise at around the same time.OldKingCole said:
Kept saying that and was told I was posting rubbish. A coupon electrion would have been B&*%$y Awful Idea for the reasons which Laws gave. It’s clear now, though that Clegg should have pulled the LibDems out in the Autumn of 2014.RodCrosby said:The flipside of not accepting a coupon was for the LDs to get out of government well in advance of the election.
What on earth were they thinking by staying in to the end?
0 -
You were saying this on Friday, but the NAO and PAC seem to think that the problem with reform and UC was more down to mismanagement in the department than anything else. It comes across as a rather poor attempt at maligning remain-supporting Osborne.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well he also confirms in his book (written well before the latest flare up) that IDS was driven by a desire to improve the welfare system but was consistently and fatally blocked and undermined by Osborne and the Treasury.RobD said:
A most neutral source.MikeK said:Laws confirms that Cammo and Osbo will do anything to keep in power, even to betraying 50 of their colleagues for personal gain. What a pair of wankers; they deserve all they get from the mass of the conservative party, when this news filters down.
I agree IDS believes (rightly) in the reform. But implementation hasn't gone well, and that's the department's fault.
https://www.nao.org.uk/report/universal-credit-early-progress-2/
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmpubacc/619/61903.htm0 -
SouthamObserver said:
Yep - Cameron opened up one of hell of a big can of worms when he decided that the Tories might lose to Ed Miliband.OldKingCole said:
That’s turning out well, too!SouthamObserver said:
When Osborne made the offer the Tories were in full panic mode. Cameron made the EU referendum promise at around the same time.OldKingCole said:
Kept saying that and was told I was posting rubbish. A coupon electrion would have been B&*%$y Awful Idea for the reasons which Laws gave. It’s clear now, though that Clegg should have pulled the LibDems out in the Autumn of 2014.RodCrosby said:The flipside of not accepting a coupon was for the LDs to get out of government well in advance of the election.
What on earth were they thinking by staying in to the end?
They might have done. Perhaps the referendum made the difference.
0 -
61% are 10/10 certain to vote, 70% 9 or 10 and 76% 8/9 or 10.Plato_Says said:MineForNothing
Opinium Survey - EU referendum: % who say they will "definitely" vote
Those backing Remain - 59%
Those backing Leave - 76%
#Brexit
41% are for Leave, 40% for Remain and 19% Don't Know, winning the undecided is key for Remain. Overall voters think the EU is a good thing by 47% to 35% which could help that effort0 -
I'm sure he'll live.another_richard said:
Is he hoping for sympathy:FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/our-17-propertieswill-lose-16000per-year/
Seems Osborne is going to piss off a lot of middle class folks, not that in the Telegraph sob story I have that much sympathy as it sounds like their "business" is built upon sand...if you own 17 homes and currently make no return you probably got something very wrong (and not buying the "but think of the folks we help")...but still if interest rates ever go up, there will be seriously hell to pay and all these people have seriously overstretched themselves and there is one person they will blame and it ain't themselves.
' Jonathan Grant, 36, is facing an increasing tax bill on his four properties in London and Berkshire from next year.
He hopes that political ambition might prompt an about-turn by George Osborne, who will need the votes of “mainly Conservative” landlord investors.
“I think he might change his mind if he wants to be Prime Minister,” said Mr Grant.
“I was very disappointed that there was no reversal on stamp duty. I was looking at buying a block up north somewhere, but I’ll now have to pay the 3pc stamp duty surcharge on that so I probably won’t do it,” he said. '
However will the North survive without his investment ?0
