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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we await the August IPSOS-MORI poll here’s the latest GE

SystemSystem Posts: 11,733
edited August 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we await the August IPSOS-MORI poll here’s the latest GE20115 outcome prices

No other pollster presents their data in such an attractive and comprehensive way and there’s almost always good analysis from the firm which has been polling longer than anyone else.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Well quite.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    YouGov lead back to 6, Cameron down 3 on best PM though still comfortably ahead, otherwise nothing special:

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/6orfkgwwet/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-140813.pdf
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    RedRag1RedRag1 Posts: 527
    I note that there has not beeen a death by subsection on the latest Yougov so will assume it was better than yesterdays for Red Egg or whatever the yolk is today?
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    DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Still think NOM.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sunil will be pleased to note that today the "Old Jacobite" and Mrs JackW are progressing by the Great Iron Horse. Will we encounter "JohnO" on his diverse meanderings? .... a fine luncheon beckons should we do so !!
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Which idiot drew that pie-chart? Don't they realise that "4/1" actually means 20%? And that "13/8" means 38%?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Can we have a reminder of IPSOS-MORI's methodological features (I still think a permanent link to the guide to methodologies would be handy here)? They are more volatile than most (last polls shown lead at 9,3,4 and 11 - I'd think a correction to something smaller is due), but I can't remember how they handle don't knows and certainty to vote, or whether they prompt for UKIP?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,309
    RedRag1 said:

    I note that there has not beeen a death by subsection on the latest Yougov so will assume it was better than yesterdays for Red Egg or whatever the yolk is today?

    You might find this useful:
    http://www.ehow.com/how_2049858_make-tinfoil-hat.html
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    DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    So today focus shifts to the annual A level results grade inflation bun-fight.
    Good luck to all those who are getting the envelope this morning!
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    "Interesting how punters much prefer backing a party for a majority with far fewer bets going on another hung parliament."

    Interesting and valuable.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 915
    JackW said:

    today the "Old Jacobite" and Mrs JackW are progressing by the Great Iron Horse.

    So appropriate Children that Google is celebrating the 155th anniversary of Edith Nesbit's birth today

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    JohnLoony said:

    Which idiot drew that pie-chart? Don't they realise that "4/1" actually means 20%? And that "13/8" means 38%?

    You have misunderstood what the chart is illustrating. The clue is in the headline: popularity. So, presumably clicks on bookies' links at Oddschecker?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Can we have a reminder of IPSOS-MORI's methodological features (I still think a permanent link to the guide to methodologies would be handy here)? They are more volatile than most (last polls shown lead at 9,3,4 and 11 - I'd think a correction to something smaller is due), but I can't remember how they handle don't knows and certainty to vote, or whether they prompt for UKIP?

    They just count Certain To Vote and don't prompt for Kippers IIRC.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Icarus

    And for those of us celebrating more than 155 years of the English language ?!?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    So today focus shifts to the annual A level results grade inflation bun-fight.
    Good luck to all those who are getting the envelope this morning!

    Whilst wishing them all well - today is one of those news days with cookie cutter reporting, tomorrow is lots of blond nubile teenagers jumping for joy/looking delighted...
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    That 4/1 price is with YouWin only. I don't have an account with them and I doubt that many punters do. So one wonders exactly how big a stake could be placed on Con maj at that price in practice?
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    RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    It's not such a betting error to go for an outright win. Since 1945 there have only really been two instances of No Overall Majority, and they are much more likely under the circumstances of a strong third/fourth party as happened last time. With a weaker, therefore smaller, third party the margins for a hung parliament decrease as you then need the other two parties to be genuinely neck-and-neck in the electoral college.

    So a bet for a hung parliament is high risk, regardless of what happened last time (when the LD's were strong).
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    DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited August 2013
    Google: all your emails are belong to us. http://tinyurl.com/l65omqx

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    Best current Lab maj price is actually 5/3 at Betfair. But again, limited stake.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited August 2013
    For the want of reading the last several threads has PB noted Nate Silver's view that the "Yes" vote for Scottish independence is doomed to fail ?
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    JJ,

    FPT, I suspect you are a tennis aficionado. The less committed watchers of the sport will have more sympathy for John Inverdale. Of course, his comments objectify women but do women not also make similar comments about the male players?

    During the Wimbledon fortnight, you get the occasional viewers of tennis, and to be fair she does "scrub up well". Like it or not, men do look at women (and vice versa) in that manner, and sporting excellence won't change that fact. Your viewpoint, although noble, may well be in the minority.

    Whatever, the official line, most men will still chance "the one eye" (as the old joke goes).

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    FPT

    YouGov

    65% of 2010 Labour voters would chose a majority Labour government as best for Britain; 15% would chose a Lib/Lab coalition.
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    Still think NOM.

    Arithmetically unlikely if the Lib Dem group of MPs goes sub 25, which is starting to look possible. They are fast running out of time to recover.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Plato said:

    Can we have a reminder of IPSOS-MORI's methodological features (I still think a permanent link to the guide to methodologies would be handy here)? They are more volatile than most (last polls shown lead at 9,3,4 and 11 - I'd think a correction to something smaller is due), but I can't remember how they handle don't knows and certainty to vote, or whether they prompt for UKIP?

    They just count Certain To Vote and don't prompt for Kippers IIRC.
    Whilst this is true , the full data tables also give VI for those 6-10 ,7-10 ,8-10 and 9-10 certainty to vote and the latter two are more useful than the headline VI

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Odd, "Vanilla" will not allow me to amend my last post to delete the double "the "Yes".

    Hhmmm ....
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    massive reaction to Eds earthchanging come back speech..It is everywhere..
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    JackW said:

    For the want of reading the last several threads has PB noted Nate Silver's view that the "Yes" vote for Scottish independence is doomed to fail ?

    Yes.

    Like David McLetchie's death it attracted virtually nil comment here at PB. They are just not interested in Scottish politics, even when it deeply affects the Unionist side.
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    DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    CD13 said:

    JJ,

    FPT, I suspect you are a tennis aficionado. The less committed watchers of the sport will have more sympathy for John Inverdale. Of course, his comments objectify women but do women not also make similar comments about the male players?

    When has any female sports reporter ever said something similar on national telly?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    massive reaction to Eds earthchanging come back speech..It is everywhere..

    I'd entirely forgotten that being egged was actually a walkabout before he made it. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere - I assume he actually did it.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,309

    Google: all your emails are belong to us. http://tinyurl.com/l65omqx

    That is quite damning. If that story is true then Google have gone way too far.

    The whole "do no evil" thing was rubbish from the start.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,803

    JackW said:

    For the want of reading the last several threads has PB noted Nate Silver's view that the "Yes" vote for Scottish independence is doomed to fail ?

    Yes.

    Like David McLetchie's death it attracted virtually nil comment here at PB. They are just not interested in Scottish politics, even when it deeply affects the Unionist side.
    not sure that's true Stuart, there are numerous scottish threads. In typical scottish contrarian fashion the nats don't say much on a scottish thread and do most of their posting on threads relating to other subjects.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    Mr Barber,

    "When has any female sports reporter ever said something similar on national telly? "

    Perhaps they ought to. There would be less outcry if it was that way round, but why do you think Jess Ennis was the poster girl for the Olympics and not one of the shot-putters?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    For the want of reading the last several threads has PB noted Nate Silver's view that the "Yes" vote for Scottish independence is doomed to fail ?

    Yes.

    Like David McLetchie's death it attracted virtually nil comment here at PB. They are just not interested in Scottish politics, even when it deeply affects the Unionist side.
    Thank you Stuart.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,882

    JackW said:

    For the want of reading the last several threads has PB noted Nate Silver's view that the "Yes" vote for Scottish independence is doomed to fail ?

    Yes.

    Like David McLetchie's death it attracted virtually nil comment here at PB. They are just not interested in Scottish politics, even when it deeply affects the Unionist side.
    not sure that's true Stuart, there are numerous scottish threads. In typical scottish contrarian fashion the nats don't say much on a scottish thread and do most of their posting on threads relating to other subjects.
    Indeed - I posted several reports on Nate Silver's comments (some questioning his UK track) - but the Nats only engage when they can trot out "too wee, too poor, too thick, heard it all before". Similarly the NATO article yesterday "automatic membership" vs "only if you keep Faslane" excited no comment - but since "the campaign hasn't started yet" (or is "well underway" if you believe the SNP accounts) I guess we shouldn't hold our breath.....
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431

    I posted

    Perhaps there's the clue.

    much as it would have been fun to troll the Nats

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,882
    edited August 2013

    I posted

    Perhaps there's the clue.

    much as it would have been fun to troll the Nats

    Link to the second quote? Or just a Nat smear?
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    RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    Further to my last, and I hate to post this because I'm left-leaning, but there looks to be some value on a Conservative win. I really gave it little chance until recently but there are some significant factors coming into play amongst them the turning economy and the weakness of EdM.
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    Blofelds_CatBlofelds_Cat Posts: 154
    edited August 2013
    edited away - already done!!
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Bristol Post on that will.

    http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Editor-s-comment-Invest-money-help-generation/story-19658765-detail/story.html

    " invest her money to establish an annual award to help young women through apprenticeships or university."

    More worthy than money laundering by political parties.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Ricardohos How many seats do you see the Lib Dems dropping to? 40 seems a reasonable par to me. With those numbers, a hung Parliament remains extremely viable.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431

    I posted

    Perhaps there's the clue.

    much as it would have been fun to troll the Nats

    Link to the second quote? Or just a Nat smear?
    Oh dear, troll reduced to using the peurile troll flag for a post identifying her as a troll.

    Are you denying you wrote that?
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    JackW said:

    For the want of reading the last several threads has PB noted Nate Silver's view that the "Yes" vote for Scottish independence is doomed to fail ?

    Yes.

    Like David McLetchie's death it attracted virtually nil comment here at PB. They are just not interested in Scottish politics, even when it deeply affects the Unionist side.
    not sure that's true Stuart, there are numerous scottish threads. In typical scottish contrarian fashion the nats don't say much on a scottish thread and do most of their posting on threads relating to other subjects.
    Alan, the last but one leader of the Scottish Conservative & Unionist Part has recently died at the dreadfully young age of 61. An absolutely key player in Scottish politics and one of the conrnerstones in the foundation of Better Together. But here at PB what tributes/assessments do we get? Apart from a few very brief lines from the few Scottish posters and a link to the tribute on James Kelly's blog, there was zero actual discussion of the man's life and work. That is deeply disappointing and does a disservice to the wider politics community.

    And the Nate Silver story was even worse. I did try my best, as did another poster (union dividend?), but we failed miserably. No-one remotely interested in a story that, if true, would have a huge effect on several political betting markets.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,309
    Charles said:

    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?

    For me it's nerves. I hate flying, and a drink relaxes me. Although perhaps not a triple.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I posted

    Perhaps there's the clue.

    much as it would have been fun to troll the Nats

    Link to the second quote? Or just a Nat smear?
    Oh dear, troll reduced to using the peurile troll flag for a post identifying her as a troll.

    Are you denying you wrote that?
    She's asked you to provide evidence that she did.

    Not a denial, in theory, but certainly implicit in the suggestion you are smearing her
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    DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Charles said:

    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?

    Maybe it's late where he's going ;-)
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,604
    Charles said:

    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?

    If you pop your head outside to take a look at the people in Wetherspoons I'm sure you'll be even more shocked....
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    Further to my last, and I hate to post this because I'm left-leaning, but there looks to be some value on a Conservative win. I really gave it little chance until recently but there are some significant factors coming into play amongst them the turning economy and the weakness of EdM.

    Agreed. 4/1 CON MAJ looks too long to me too, but good luck trying to get more than a token stake at that price with YouWin.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Charles said:

    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?

    Maybe it's late where he's going ;-)
    Or maybe he's come from somewhere with a very different time zone. I remember travelling to Australia many years ago and joining colleagues for a couple of beers in the lounge in Melbourne at 8.30 on a Sunday morning to the disgust of the natives :-)
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    Charles said:

    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?

    It's only early for us. When I lived in Spain a large brandy or a brandy anis mix (sol y sombra) at breakfast did not raise any eyebrows; neither did a few glasses of wine if you were having a cooked breakfast. And, of course, it's free in the lounge.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,882

    I posted

    Perhaps there's the clue.

    much as it would have been fun to troll the Nats

    Link to the second quote? Or just a Nat smear?
    Oh dear, troll reduced to using the peurile troll flag for a post identifying her as a troll.

    Are you denying you wrote that?
    Yes.
    Post the link.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    The coalition don't have a thing to worry about. The Romanians are coming!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23707274
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,803

    JackW said:

    For the want of reading the last several threads has PB noted Nate Silver's view that the "Yes" vote for Scottish independence is doomed to fail ?

    Yes.

    Like David McLetchie's death it attracted virtually nil comment here at PB. They are just not interested in Scottish politics, even when it deeply affects the Unionist side.
    not sure that's true Stuart, there are numerous scottish threads. In typical scottish contrarian fashion the nats don't say much on a scottish thread and do most of their posting on threads relating to other subjects.
    Alan, the last but one leader of the Scottish Conservative & Unionist Part has recently died at the dreadfully young age of 61. An absolutely key player in Scottish politics and one of the conrnerstones in the foundation of Better Together. But here at PB what tributes/assessments do we get? Apart from a few very brief lines from the few Scottish posters and a link to the tribute on James Kelly's blog, there was zero actual discussion of the man's life and work. That is deeply disappointing and does a disservice to the wider politics community.

    And the Nate Silver story was even worse. I did try my best, as did another poster (union dividend?), but we failed miserably. No-one remotely interested in a story that, if true, would have a huge effect on several political betting markets.

    well lets start with DM is largely unknown outside Scotland so really to get a discussion going we're dependent on the PB scots contingent kicking the ball off ( as now ). TUD logged JKs post here but nobody really followed it up, perhaps since most obituaries were saying he'd been out of frontline politics for some time. The few times I've come across references to DM on here they've usually been a nat saying something to the effect he was a tory and therefore somehow suspect, so the tributes seemed a bit hollow if I'm honest.

    I think this is just one of the problems you're going to get with the indyref, positions are fairly entrenched so notable events get lost in the crossfire.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,573
    I don't agree with much of what Jeremy Warner has to say about the UK economy in this piece but I post it for the references to Rand Paul: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/mark-carney/10242597/Have-the-austerians-won-the-day-or-will-the-pragmatists-prevail.html

    He apparently believes that either Hayek or Friedman would be ideal next heads of the Fed and the fact that they are both dead only enhances their qualifications for the role. In short this man is as far off the page as his father. Good luck to those betting on him getting the republican nomination, let alone the Presidency.
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    Further to my last, and I hate to post this because I'm left-leaning, but there looks to be some value on a Conservative win. I really gave it little chance until recently but there are some significant factors coming into play amongst them the turning economy and the weakness of EdM.

    Agreed. 4/1 CON MAJ looks too long to me too, but good luck trying to get more than a token stake at that price with YouWin.
    I disagree.

    For a Conservative majority you need to name 20 seats the Conservatives will gain in 2015.

    Berwick
    Mid Dorset
    Solihull

    all look like good chances but then it gets difficult.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    Further to my last, and I hate to post this because I'm left-leaning, but there looks to be some value on a Conservative win. I really gave it little chance until recently but there are some significant factors coming into play amongst them the turning economy and the weakness of EdM.

    Agreed. 4/1 CON MAJ looks too long to me too, but good luck trying to get more than a token stake at that price with YouWin.
    I disagree.

    For a Conservative majority you need to name 20 seats the Conservatives will gain in 2015.

    Berwick
    Mid Dorset
    Solihull

    all look like good chances but then it gets difficult.
    Wells is rather likely as well...
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,803
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:

    I realise that the PB Tories can't understand why benefit spending rises with each new "tough announcement"

    This should explain it in figures that even the stats geniuses can understand

    @georgeeaton: New figures show 320,738 more people are claiming housing benefit than in May 2010 http://t.co/xamTzPblFx

    So what you're saying is that in 3 years under the Coalition the housing benefit caseload has grown by less than it did in just the last year of the Labour government. God Labour were such benefit junkies.
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    Radio 4 highlighting the big increase in Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK. What is a surprise is that its happening before they get full employment access.

    Another thing to note about yesturday's employment data was a much greater increase in women employed than men.

    Remember when a couple of years ago women were doing worse in employment than men? At the time it was regarded as a serious issue. Odd then that when women do better than men the difference is no longer regarded as important.

    The increase in female employment, together with new jobs once again going predominantly to immigrants, does suggest that most jobs are in low skilled wealth consuming service sector areas.

    The UK's 'Mr Creosote' economy has started eating the next course.
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    Charles said:

    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?

    I'm just back from Turkey. The airport bar was full of people drinking beer at breakfast time. Very very sad.

    Incidentally, if any representative of Burger King is reading this: your Turkish operation in tainting your brand. Leaving aside the revolting food we were served (BK is usually edible in most other countries, and you get proper Coke at European BKs, not watered down pish), I was astonished at the blatant robbery that was inflicted on me.

    Stunningly poor customer service is common in Turkey, and at airports in general, but actually getting robbed by the cheeky wee besom behind the counter was a new one for me. The "Menu" (burger, chips, coke) was 19 Turkish lire, but she automatically "supersized" me to the King Size at extra 3,50. I said no thanks, I didn't want the king size, just the normal. She said that the normal menu "has run out" and that I must buy the king size. No discussion.

    She only robbed me of a quid, but I cannot help feeling a little less positive about BK.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,604
    Neil said:

    tim said:

    I realise that the PB Tories can't understand why benefit spending rises with each new "tough announcement"

    This should explain it in figures that even the stats geniuses can understand

    @georgeeaton: New figures show 320,738 more people are claiming housing benefit than in May 2010 http://t.co/xamTzPblFx

    So what you're saying is that in 3 years under the Coalition the housing benefit caseload has grown by less than it did in just the last year of the Labour government. God Labour were such benefit junkies.
    In the last year of the Lab govt 338,000 more people claimed housing benefit (May 09-May 10 - https://gov.uk/government/publications/housing-benefit-and-council-tax-benefit-caseload-statistics-published-from-november-2008-to-present).

    Tim should be prostrate giving thanks to IDS' magnificent policy.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Gary Slapper @garyslapper
    "Bring us three Buck's Fizzes and keep the change."
    The late Alan Clark MP when approached by Sir Geoffrey Howe dressed in a dinner jacket.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431

    Yes.
    Post the link.

    About a third of the way down.

    http://tinyurl.com/nbednvl

    The rail bridge takes splendour to a whole new level. It is magnificent, mesmerising structure that is unparalleled in the world. It is one of the few bridges that I have known people not interested in engineering to take long journeys to visit (another is the Millau Viaduct).
    Yes - a spectacular (over?) reaction to the tragedy on the Tay to the north. I always looked out for the piers from the original bridge when crossing the rebuilt Tay Bridge. I also remember seeing the Forth Road Bridge going up from the Queensferry ferry. I think 'Queensferry' a good choice too - much as it would have been fun to troll the Nats with 'St Margaret's Crossing', misunderstanding which 'Margaret' it refers to!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,573
    This site contains a lot of basic statistics about UK debt: http://www.creditaction.org.uk/helpful-resources/debt-statistics.html

    It is not a pretty picture but the latest statistics suggest unsecured consumer debt is actually falling. I therefore really don't know what the basis of the Telegraph piece is. And these are nominal figures. In real terms debt has been falling for some considerable time as it needed to of course after the madness 2002-2007.

    The vast bulk of consumer debt in this country is of course mortgages. If we have reached the point when at least nominal house prices have stopped falling then that debt will become more secure.

    It is very difficult to get around the fact that consumption is about 70% of the economy. If you want growth spending has to increase. The fact we overspent and overborrowed during the last boom makes this very difficult but it is essential if there is to be any incentive to invest in new production and supply.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,882
    @TUD - so not a reference to this site or posters on this site.

    When was your last post on Faslane vs NATO?
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    Neil said:

    tim said:

    I realise that the PB Tories can't understand why benefit spending rises with each new "tough announcement"

    This should explain it in figures that even the stats geniuses can understand

    @georgeeaton: New figures show 320,738 more people are claiming housing benefit than in May 2010 http://t.co/xamTzPblFx

    So what you're saying is that in 3 years under the Coalition the housing benefit caseload has grown by less than it did in just the last year of the Labour government. God Labour were such benefit junkies.

    Seems to me that what he is saying is that welfare dependency has grown in the last three years as more people claim housing benefit than was previously the case. If we accept that Labour were benefit junkies, what does that make the coalition? Surely the numbers should be going down - isn't the point of coalition policy to make people less dependent on the state than they were previously?

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Charles said:

    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?

    I'm just back from Turkey. The airport bar was full of people drinking beer at breakfast time. Very very sad.

    Incidentally, if any representative of Burger King is reading this: your Turkish operation in tainting your brand. Leaving aside the revolting food we were served (BK is usually edible in most other countries, and you get proper Coke at European BKs, not watered down pish), I was astonished at the blatant robbery that was inflicted on me.

    Stunningly poor customer service is common in Turkey, and at airports in general, but actually getting robbed by the cheeky wee besom behind the counter was a new one for me. The "Menu" (burger, chips, coke) was 19 Turkish lire, but she automatically "supersized" me to the King Size at extra 3,50. I said no thanks, I didn't want the king size, just the normal. She said that the normal menu "has run out" and that I must buy the king size. No discussion.

    She only robbed me of a quid, but I cannot help feeling a little less positive about BK.

    A Burger King in Turkey!!. Was the local food that bad, nothing else on offer or did you fancy the "cheeky wee besom"?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,803
    DavidL said:

    This site contains a lot of basic statistics about UK debt: http://www.creditaction.org.uk/helpful-resources/debt-statistics.html

    It is not a pretty picture but the latest statistics suggest unsecured consumer debt is actually falling. I therefore really don't know what the basis of the Telegraph piece is. And these are nominal figures. In real terms debt has been falling for some considerable time as it needed to of course after the madness 2002-2007.

    The vast bulk of consumer debt in this country is of course mortgages. If we have reached the point when at least nominal house prices have stopped falling then that debt will become more secure.

    It is very difficult to get around the fact that consumption is about 70% of the economy. If you want growth spending has to increase. The fact we overspent and overborrowed during the last boom makes this very difficult but it is essential if there is to be any incentive to invest in new production and supply.
    I think their point is we're setting off again on the well trodden path of debt and haven't got much headroom since we haven't paid the last lot off yet. HMG need a policy where we produce more of what we consume to get us off debt bingeing. We all sort of know where continued borrowing is going to leave us.
  • Options
    Financier said:

    Charles said:

    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?

    I'm just back from Turkey. The airport bar was full of people drinking beer at breakfast time. Very very sad.

    Incidentally, if any representative of Burger King is reading this: your Turkish operation in tainting your brand. Leaving aside the revolting food we were served (BK is usually edible in most other countries, and you get proper Coke at European BKs, not watered down pish), I was astonished at the blatant robbery that was inflicted on me.

    Stunningly poor customer service is common in Turkey, and at airports in general, but actually getting robbed by the cheeky wee besom behind the counter was a new one for me. The "Menu" (burger, chips, coke) was 19 Turkish lire, but she automatically "supersized" me to the King Size at extra 3,50. I said no thanks, I didn't want the king size, just the normal. She said that the normal menu "has run out" and that I must buy the king size. No discussion.

    She only robbed me of a quid, but I cannot help feeling a little less positive about BK.

    A Burger King in Turkey!!. Was the local food that bad, nothing else on offer or did you fancy the "cheeky wee besom"?
    You try getting decent food for wife n kids at 11 pm at Antalya airport. "Local food" is not an option.

    As for the cheeky wee besom, she was a repulsive little turd. Both without and within. You know that look that people have when they really hate their jobs? She had it in spades.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431

    @TUD - so not a reference to this site or posters on this site.

    When was your last post on Faslane vs NATO?

    Ah, so you keep your trolling for other sites? On a similar basis, I tend to keep serious discussion of Scotland and its politics for other places.

    Apology for denying saying something you plainly did (and accusing me of smearing) anytime you like.
  • Options
    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    tim said:


    I'm saying that the inexorable rise in housing benefit dwarfs the macho cap posturing.

    You think it's impossible to stop?
  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:

    Neil said:

    tim said:

    I realise that the PB Tories can't understand why benefit spending rises with each new "tough announcement"

    This should explain it in figures that even the stats geniuses can understand

    @georgeeaton: New figures show 320,738 more people are claiming housing benefit than in May 2010 http://t.co/xamTzPblFx

    So what you're saying is that in 3 years under the Coalition the housing benefit caseload has grown by less than it did in just the last year of the Labour government. God Labour were such benefit junkies.
    I'm saying that the inexorable rise in housing benefit dwarfs the macho cap posturing.
    Caseload is influenced by many factors, some of which are controllable and many others which are not. The rate of increase in caseload has fallen under the Coaltion. The Government has more influence over the average eligible rent and we know that after many years of private sector eligible rents going through the roof under Labour the Coalition have recently gotten that under control.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,604

    Neil said:

    tim said:

    I realise that the PB Tories can't understand why benefit spending rises with each new "tough announcement"

    This should explain it in figures that even the stats geniuses can understand

    @georgeeaton: New figures show 320,738 more people are claiming housing benefit than in May 2010 http://t.co/xamTzPblFx

    So what you're saying is that in 3 years under the Coalition the housing benefit caseload has grown by less than it did in just the last year of the Labour government. God Labour were such benefit junkies.

    Seems to me that what he is saying is that welfare dependency has grown in the last three years as more people claim housing benefit than was previously the case. If we accept that Labour were benefit junkies, what does that make the coalition? Surely the numbers should be going down - isn't the point of coalition policy to make people less dependent on the state than they were previously?

    It's a start.

    In the final 18 months of the Lab govt almost 600,000 more people claimed for HB. In the past 18 months 150,000 more people have claimed. So it's a rate of change kind of thing. In fact since the beginning of this year the rate has stayed almost the same.

    But that's a statistics view. The key issue is that there has been a rebalancing of the economy as witnessed by yesterday's employment figures. Not much change in the headline rate but a large change in public vs private and that process will have noise around it.

    In all, and despite the shrillness of the NS and tim, I would say a solid B+ for the coalition on this so far.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    BAN LENDING ! BAN INTEREST ! Government control of individuals budgets - citizens must not be allowed to spend their own money on paying off debt interest !

    Personal insolvencies are down 6.1% on this time last year .....
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,573
    edited August 2013
    Alanbrooke said:
    I think their point is we're setting off again on the well trodden path of debt and haven't got much headroom since we haven't paid the last lot off yet. HMG need a policy where we produce more of what we consume to get us off debt bingeing. We all sort of know where continued borrowing is going to leave us.

    We certainly do not have the capacity to do anything like the level of borrowing we did the last time in Brown's fantasy grotto. But I return to the point: do we have an economy that continues to shrink indefinitely as we pay off old debts and avoid new commitments or do we accept that some increase in credit is essential if we are to get ourselves out of this mess?

    I really don't think we have any choices. We have to take risks on house prices because it drives demand more effectively than anything else. We have to increase the supply of credit which will inevitably mean more debt for some. Obviously we have to try and improve our balance of payments too but there are a lot of countries in that same boat and they are all trying to do the same at the same time.

    None of the latest good economic news takes away from the fact that we are in a very bad situation.

  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 36s
    UK retail sales rose by 1.1% in July, up 3% year-on-year

    Close to a boom....
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,803
    TGOHF said:

    BAN LENDING ! BAN INTEREST ! Government control of individuals budgets - citizens must not be allowed to spend their own money on paying off debt interest !

    Personal insolvencies are down 6.1% on this time last year .....
    and they'll go back up if we start pushing consumer credit. As for banning interest well I think savers are more or less aware that's it's a rare commodity.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,882
    @TUD - no apology required - you associated my comment on the naming of the new Forth Crossing with comments and commentators on this site - misleading at best, arguably a smear.

    Since you won't discuss Scotland on this site, why do you post?

    Here's something else for you not to talk about:

    "Ipsos MORI said its polling suggested the First Minister would have a better chance if he watered down his strategy of telling voters independence is a small step and adopt a more radical agenda.

    In a bid to reassure voters, Mr Salmond has claimed that everything from the currency to Scotland’s EU status would remain the same in the face of expert warnings otherwise.

    But Mark Diffley, the pollster’s research director, said undecided Scots from poorer backgrounds would be more like to vote yes if he was more frank in promising drastic change."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10243400/Alex-Salmond-needs-70pc-of-undecided-voters-to-win-independence-referendum.html

    Its what some of us have been saying for some time......
  • Options

    Charles said:

    O/T

    It's 8.30 and in the BA lounge again. Just saw someone pour themselves a triple whisky. He looked like a normal guy presumably heading on holiday - not an alcoholic or anything.

    But what is it about travel that makes people drink this early?

    I'm just back from Turkey. The airport bar was full of people drinking beer at breakfast time. Very very sad.

    Incidentally, if any representative of Burger King is reading this: your Turkish operation in tainting your brand. Leaving aside the revolting food we were served (BK is usually edible in most other countries, and you get proper Coke at European BKs, not watered down pish), I was astonished at the blatant robbery that was inflicted on me.

    Stunningly poor customer service is common in Turkey, and at airports in general, but actually getting robbed by the cheeky wee besom behind the counter was a new one for me. The "Menu" (burger, chips, coke) was 19 Turkish lire, but she automatically "supersized" me to the King Size at extra 3,50. I said no thanks, I didn't want the king size, just the normal. She said that the normal menu "has run out" and that I must buy the king size. No discussion.

    She only robbed me of a quid, but I cannot help feeling a little less positive about BK.
    It is never difficult to distinguish between a Swede with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.
  • Options
    DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    So A Level A or A* results have dropped 0.3%... 2nd year in a row...
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,604
    tim said:

    Neil said:

    tim said:

    I realise that the PB Tories can't understand why benefit spending rises with each new "tough announcement"

    This should explain it in figures that even the stats geniuses can understand

    @georgeeaton: New figures show 320,738 more people are claiming housing benefit than in May 2010 http://t.co/xamTzPblFx

    So what you're saying is that in 3 years under the Coalition the housing benefit caseload has grown by less than it did in just the last year of the Labour government. God Labour were such benefit junkies.

    Seems to me that what he is saying is that welfare dependency has grown in the last three years as more people claim housing benefit than was previously the case. If we accept that Labour were benefit junkies, what does that make the coalition? Surely the numbers should be going down - isn't the point of coalition policy to make people less dependent on the state than they were previously?


    All govts over the last forty years have clung to a housing model that relies on huge housing benefit subsidies.
    Until the PB Tories understand that they'll never understand why benefit spending has risen under the coalition despite all the idiotic posturing they swallow from Osborne and IDS
    Does Ed understand it?
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    BAN LENDING ! BAN INTEREST ! Government control of individuals budgets - citizens must not be allowed to spend their own money on paying off debt interest !

    Personal insolvencies are down 6.1% on this time last year .....
    and they'll go back up if we start pushing consumer credit. As for banning interest well I think savers are more or less aware that's it's a rare commodity.
    These people are borrowing at rates which are totally disconnected to the BoE rate - I'm not sure what you think Carney could do to stop them using their credit cards.

    Blaming the government for peoples personal habits interacting with private enterprises - which are all legal - good luck with fixing that by policy.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    So A Level A or A* results have dropped 0.3%... 2nd year in a row...

    And *only* 1:4 is getting a top grade. Very slowly walking backwards in action now - thank goodness.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    Neil said:

    tim said:

    I realise that the PB Tories can't understand why benefit spending rises with each new "tough announcement"

    This should explain it in figures that even the stats geniuses can understand

    @georgeeaton: New figures show 320,738 more people are claiming housing benefit than in May 2010 http://t.co/xamTzPblFx

    So what you're saying is that in 3 years under the Coalition the housing benefit caseload has grown by less than it did in just the last year of the Labour government. God Labour were such benefit junkies.

    Seems to me that what he is saying is that welfare dependency has grown in the last three years as more people claim housing benefit than was previously the case. If we accept that Labour were benefit junkies, what does that make the coalition? Surely the numbers should be going down - isn't the point of coalition policy to make people less dependent on the state than they were previously?


    All govts over the last forty years have clung to a housing model that relies on huge housing benefit subsidies.
    Until the PB Tories understand that they'll never understand why benefit spending has risen under the coalition despite all the idiotic posturing they swallow from Osborne and IDS
    Does Ed understand it?
    Seems like tim is joining the swelling ranks of Labour supporters frustrated with Ed's lack of policy - trouble at mill !



  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited August 2013
    DavidL said:


    We certainly do not have the capacity to do anything like the level of borrowing we did the last time in Brown's fantasy grotto.

    Erm, isn't Mr Osborne borrowing rather more than Mr Brown?

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,803
    DavidL said:


    This site contains a lot of basic statistics about UK debt: http://www.creditaction.org.uk/helpful-resources/debt-statistics.html

    the last boom makes this very difficult but it is essential if there is to be any incentive to invest in new production and supply.

    I think their point i produce more of what we consume to get us off debt bingeing. We all sort of know where continued borrowing is going to leave us.

    We certainly do not have the capacity to do anything like the level of borrowing we did the last time in Brown's fantasy grotto. But I return to the point: do we have an economy that continues to shrink indefinitely as we pay off old debts and avoid new commitments or do we accept that some increase in credit is essential if we are to get ourselves out of this mess?

    I really don't think we have any choices. We have to take risks on house prices because it drives demand more effectively than anything else. We have to increase the supply of credit which will inevitably mean more debt for some. Obviously we have to try and improve our balance of payments too but there are a lot of countries in that same boat and they are all trying to do the same at the same time.

    None of the latest good economic news takes away from the fact that we are in a very bad situation.



    The issue imo is more where bank credit should be directed. UK consumers are heavily exposed to debt and need to pay their debts down further. A fall in consumer debt isn't much help if real incomes are also being squeezed so that debt servicing is still a problem. Currently its savers being penalised for the acts of the reckless and the bill is being presented via lower returns. Moving house prices might be a temporary help in getting consumer confidence going, but really HMG needs to get business confidence back on track and get cash rich companies to start spending on capital investment and raising domestic output.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Further to my last, and I hate to post this because I'm left-leaning, but there looks to be some value on a Conservative win. I really gave it little chance until recently but there are some significant factors coming into play amongst them the turning economy and the weakness of EdM.

    Agreed. 4/1 CON MAJ looks too long to me too, but good luck trying to get more than a token stake at that price with YouWin.
    I disagree.

    For a Conservative majority you need to name 20 seats the Conservatives will gain in 2015.

    Berwick
    Mid Dorset
    Solihull

    all look like good chances but then it gets difficult.
    Wells is rather likely as well...
    ConHome on the Conservatives 40/40 targets:
    "According to the original briefing last autumn, those being chosen are not simply the most marginal on paper. Analysis has also apparently been done to pick out seats which are undergoing major demographic changes which favour Tory candidates, seats where unusual circumstances affected the last election and seats whose MPs who win on the back of personal loyalty rather than party success may be standing down."

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/parliament/4040-seats/
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited August 2013
    Excellent accuracy in the reporting :

    "Experts have said that the warm weather, increased consumer confidence and the "feel good factor" created by the Royal Wedding stimulated growth."


    And excellent feedback in the comments :D

    "Anne Pettifor is an extreme left wing activist with a very limited grasp of economics. I once spent a week on a course with her and never heard a sensible idea uttered. She's good for a sound bite but not much else."
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Further to my last, and I hate to post this because I'm left-leaning, but there looks to be some value on a Conservative win. I really gave it little chance until recently but there are some significant factors coming into play amongst them the turning economy and the weakness of EdM.

    Agreed. 4/1 CON MAJ looks too long to me too, but good luck trying to get more than a token stake at that price with YouWin.
    I disagree.

    For a Conservative majority you need to name 20 seats the Conservatives will gain in 2015.

    Berwick
    Mid Dorset
    Solihull

    all look like good chances but then it gets difficult.
    Watford looks like pretty good chance of a CON loss and LD gain. You can get 4/1 with Laddies. It was 6/1 this time last week




  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431

    @TUD - no apology required - you associated my comment on the naming of the new Forth Crossing with comments and commentators on this site - misleading at best, arguably a smear.

    Since you won't discuss Scotland on this site, why do you post?

    Here's something else for you not to talk about:

    "Ipsos MORI said its polling suggested the First Minister would have a better chance if he watered down his strategy of telling voters independence is a small step and adopt a more radical agenda.

    In a bid to reassure voters, Mr Salmond has claimed that everything from the currency to Scotland’s EU status would remain the same in the face of expert warnings otherwise.

    But Mark Diffley, the pollster’s research director, said undecided Scots from poorer backgrounds would be more like to vote yes if he was more frank in promising drastic change."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10243400/Alex-Salmond-needs-70pc-of-undecided-voters-to-win-independence-referendum.html

    Its what some of us have been saying for some time......

    My need to post here is obviously a fraction of yours.
    I have a passing interest in betting and political betting. Additionally, if someone has an open mind and wants to discuss what's going on in Scotland I'll respond in kind, the same goes for flyting.

    It's rather touching that in amongst all the sneering and trolling you're evidently desperate to discuss the referendum. I'm afraid you must seek your balm elsewhere.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,882
    Something else for the Nats not to talk about:

    "Senior Nato officials have warned Alex Salmond's government that an independent Scotland would be barred from joining Nato if there were any disputes over the basing of nuclear weapons on the Clyde."

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/14/nato-blow-snp-nuclear-strategy
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 36s
    UK retail sales rose by 1.1% in July, up 3% year-on-year

    Close to a boom....


    Wage growth (excluding Osbornes bonus gifts) running at a around a third the increase in retail spending and house price inflation.

    Cheer on the bubble policy Slackbladder

    those rich chinese buying up all the London flats like to shop too timbo.


  • Options
    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited August 2013

    Further to my last, and I hate to post this because I'm left-leaning, but there looks to be some value on a Conservative win. I really gave it little chance until recently but there are some significant factors coming into play amongst them the turning economy and the weakness of EdM.

    Agreed. 4/1 CON MAJ looks too long to me too, but good luck trying to get more than a token stake at that price with YouWin.
    I disagree.

    For a Conservative majority you need to name 20 seats the Conservatives will gain in 2015.

    Berwick
    Mid Dorset
    Solihull

    all look like good chances but then it gets difficult.
    Watford looks like pretty good chance of a CON loss and LD gain. You can get 4/1 with Laddies. It was 6/1 this time last week




    Mike, a week or two ago you said that, unfortunately, you had no acces to historical price data. I responded with instructions on how you can access that data at the Oddschecker site, but you never responded (I suspect that you had logged out). Did you see my post? If you missed it, can I retrieve it quickly via Vanilla, as I have no desire to scroll through lots of old threads to retrieve it?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,803
    TGOHF said:

    Excellent accuracy in the reporting :

    "Experts have said that the warm weather, increased consumer confidence and the "feel good factor" created by the Royal Wedding stimulated growth."


    And excellent feedback in the comments :D

    "Anne Pettifor is an extreme left wing activist with a very limited grasp of economics. I once spent a week on a course with her and never heard a sensible idea uttered. She's good for a sound bite but not much else."
    Experts will basically say anything you want, experts also got us into the mess we're in.

    HMG is still living on borrowed money and needing to relaunch the failed policies of the last 20 years. Einstein's comment on madness is apt at this point.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    tim said:

    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 36s
    UK retail sales rose by 1.1% in July, up 3% year-on-year

    Close to a boom....


    Wage growth (excluding Osbornes bonus gifts) running at a around a third the increase in retail spending and house price inflation.

    Cheer on the bubble policy Slackbladder

    You really don't cope well with good economic news do you?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,573

    DavidL said:


    We certainly do not have the capacity to do anything like the level of borrowing we did the last time in Brown's fantasy grotto.

    Erm, isn't Mr Osborne borrowing rather more than Mr Brown?

    No. Borrowing peaked at £156bn in a single year. We are well down from that. Even in nominal terms it is down by 1/3. In real terms borrowing this year will be down about 50%. Still too high of course.

    But what we were talking about is private sector debt which got completely out of control under Brown. This has fallen substantially, albeit by quite a lot of write offs. This deleveraging of private sector debt, whilst necessary, is why we have not had any growth for 3 years. I am suggesting that whilst lower debt is desirable we cannot keep going like this and need additional credit into the system again to boost demand and encourage investment.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Excellent accuracy in the reporting :

    "Experts have said that the warm weather, increased consumer confidence and the "feel good factor" created by the Royal Wedding stimulated growth."


    And excellent feedback in the comments :D

    "Anne Pettifor is an extreme left wing activist with a very limited grasp of economics. I once spent a week on a course with her and never heard a sensible idea uttered. She's good for a sound bite but not much else."
    Experts will basically say anything you want, experts also got us into the mess we're in.

    HMG is still living on borrowed money and needing to relaunch the failed policies of the last 20 years. Einstein's comment on madness is apt at this point.

    Alan - I agree - but the govt can't put all the consumers houses in order before they get their own.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,882

    @TUD - no apology required - you associated my comment on the naming of the new Forth Crossing with comments and commentators on this site - misleading at best, arguably a smear.

    Since you won't discuss Scotland on this site, why do you post?

    Here's something else for you not to talk about:

    "Ipsos MORI said its polling suggested the First Minister would have a better chance if he watered down his strategy of telling voters independence is a small step and adopt a more radical agenda.

    In a bid to reassure voters, Mr Salmond has claimed that everything from the currency to Scotland’s EU status would remain the same in the face of expert warnings otherwise.

    But Mark Diffley, the pollster’s research director, said undecided Scots from poorer backgrounds would be more like to vote yes if he was more frank in promising drastic change."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10243400/Alex-Salmond-needs-70pc-of-undecided-voters-to-win-independence-referendum.html

    Its what some of us have been saying for some time......

    It's rather touching that in amongst all the sneering and trolling
    I'm not the one who's only posted about other posters today....self awareness is evidently not your strong suit.....
This discussion has been closed.