politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Polling analysis: UKIP supporters make up the biggest group
Comments
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Didn't Scott Adams predict a massive Romney win?RodCrosby said:'The GOP candidates for president had a boring debate last night. My one-word summary is “capitulation.” Based on the energy on stage, it seems they stopped fighting. That means Trump can stroll to the nomination, assuming Florida goes as expected.
Trump’s only objective at the debate was to avoid looking out of control. He said in advance that he could do so easily unless the other candidates attacked him. And then his opponents did not attack him. That’s acceptance of the final result. Capitulation.
The other possibility is that Florida and Ohio are already rigged. That would be the other reason for not fighting. We’ll find out next week.
The thing to watch in coming months is the degree to which Muslim immigration becomes connected to rape in the minds of the public, based on reports from Europe and from ISIS territories. Trump is taking the anti-rape position at the expense of religious tolerance. That is a landslide-winning position against an opponent he has already labelled an “enabler.”
The hopes of the anti-Trumpers rest on the fact that nearly two-thirds of the public have a negative impression of Trump. In normal times, that would be predictive of the final result. But by November, Trump will turn this election into a referendum on protecting the health and safety of women. And he will be running against the only living human with lower approval than him (by then).
That’s a landslide position.'
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/140857419526/gop-debate-scorecard-march-10-master-persuader0 -
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
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When I worked in Spain in the late 80s I needed a visa. It's a hell of a lot easier now.Richard_Tyndall said:
The killer argument is that we could before the EU ever existed.Roger said:
The killer argument is that any of us can go and live in any one of 27 civilized countries with civilized standards as easily as we could in Scotland or Wales. This might not be relevant to oldies but it's very much in the mind of the young.Alanbrooke said:
No side currently has a killer argument.Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
Nor are they likely to get one.
The killer argument wont be made by the old and the young wont be forgiving if we deny them these opportunities
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North Carolina - SUSA/High Point Uni
Trump 48 .. Cruz 28 .. Kasich 12 .. Rubio 8
Clinton 58 .. Sanders 340 -
If you're just looking for a jingle I'll need more time.Alanbrooke said:
PahRoger said:
The killer argument is that any of us can go and live in any one of 27 civilized countries with civilized standards as easily as we could in Scotland or Wales. This might not be relevant to oldies but it's very much in the mind of the young.Alanbrooke said:
No side currently has a killer argument.Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
Nor are they likely to get one.
The killer argument wont be made by the old and the young wont be forgiving if we deny them these opportunities
call yourself a marketing man ?
You couldn't segment an orange let alone a market.
My mate Roger - Soviet advertising for the masses :-)
What rhymes with EU?0 -
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.0 -
What rhymes witH EU...POOH..0
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But it didn't stop you then, did it.SouthamObserver said:
When I worked in Spain in the late 80s I needed a visa. It's a hell of a lot easier now.Richard_Tyndall said:
The killer argument is that we could before the EU ever existed.Roger said:
The killer argument is that any of us can go and live in any one of 27 civilized countries with civilized standards as easily as we could in Scotland or Wales. This might not be relevant to oldies but it's very much in the mind of the young.Alanbrooke said:
No side currently has a killer argument.Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
Nor are they likely to get one.
The killer argument wont be made by the old and the young wont be forgiving if we deny them these opportunities0 -
It's not free movement. That was my point.GeoffM said:
But it didn't stop you then, did it.SouthamObserver said:
When I worked in Spain in the late 80s I needed a visa. It's a hell of a lot easier now.Richard_Tyndall said:
The killer argument is that we could before the EU ever existed.Roger said:
The killer argument is that any of us can go and live in any one of 27 civilized countries with civilized standards as easily as we could in Scotland or Wales. This might not be relevant to oldies but it's very much in the mind of the young.Alanbrooke said:
No side currently has a killer argument.Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
Nor are they likely to get one.
The killer argument wont be made by the old and the young wont be forgiving if we deny them these opportunities
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Still going well...
@derekrootboy: John McDonnell has surrendered to the capitalist parasites. He is now nothing more than a #Blairite. What the hell is he doing? #c4news0 -
It;s pronounced EwwwwRoger said:
If you're just looking for a jingle I'll need more time.Alanbrooke said:
PahRoger said:
The killer argument is that any of us can go and live in any one of 27 civilized countries with civilized standards as easily as we could in Scotland or Wales. This might not be relevant to oldies but it's very much in the mind of the young.Alanbrooke said:
No side currently has a killer argument.Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
Nor are they likely to get one.
The killer argument wont be made by the old and the young wont be forgiving if we deny them these opportunities
call yourself a marketing man ?
You couldn't segment an orange let alone a market.
My mate Roger - Soviet advertising for the masses :-)
What rhymes with EU?
as in Ewww - Tony Blair does it five ti9mes a night0 -
However the EEA does include passporting: http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/pra/Pages/authorisations/passporting/default.aspxSouthamObserver said:Canada/EU deal, financial services ...
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/7083689508878991370 -
Poor example. Until 1975 if you were a mother and wanted to take your son out of Spain for any reason you had to have written permission of the father. Some countries take a while to stop being basket cases.SouthamObserver said:
When I worked in Spain in the late 80s I needed a visa. It's a hell of a lot easier now.Richard_Tyndall said:
The killer argument is that we could before the EU ever existed.Roger said:
The killer argument is that any of us can go and live in any one of 27 civilized countries with civilized standards as easily as we could in Scotland or Wales. This might not be relevant to oldies but it's very much in the mind of the young.Alanbrooke said:
No side currently has a killer argument.Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
Nor are they likely to get one.
The killer argument wont be made by the old and the young wont be forgiving if we deny them these opportunities
Besides in the late 80s Spain had already joined the EU0 -
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
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Taking seven years to get a better deal is. Canada doesn't have to apply European laws it doesn't want.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
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During the transition the visa regime stayed in place.Richard_Tyndall said:
Poor example. Until 1975 if you were a mother and wanted to take your son out of Spain for any reason you had to have written permission of the father. Some countries take a while to stop being basket cases.SouthamObserver said:
When I worked in Spain in the late 80s I needed a visa. It's a hell of a lot easier now.Richard_Tyndall said:
The killer argument is that we could before the EU ever existed.Roger said:
The killer argument is that any of us can go and live in any one of 27 civilized countries with civilized standards as easily as we could in Scotland or Wales. This might not be relevant to oldies but it's very much in the mind of the young.Alanbrooke said:
No side currently has a killer argument.Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
Nor are they likely to get one.
The killer argument wont be made by the old and the young wont be forgiving if we deny them these opportunities
Besides in the late 80s Spain had already joined the EU
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How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.0 -
Docking Missouri
GOP
Trump: 36
Cruz: 29
Rubio: 9
Kasich: 8
Dems
Clinton 47
Sanders 40
http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/trump-clinton-have-slight-poll-leads-ahead-of-tuesday-missouri/article_72706d3d-8bbd-5873-8c7e-e6543072b341.html0 -
I don't really see the problem, it is not in our nature to be spiteful and I think we should allow the EU to continue to trade freely with us, after all 5m EU jobs depend on their trade with us.SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.0 -
But Boris is not advocating that. As I've said a few times, the EEA/EFTA option is not scary. The Canada option is far worse. Having the probable PM if Leave wins advocating it is a bit of a worry, to say the least!Philip_Thompson said:
However the EEA does include passporting: http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/pra/Pages/authorisations/passporting/default.aspxSouthamObserver said:Canada/EU deal, financial services ...
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/708368950887899137
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yes however since any tariffs are centred on existing WTO deals it;s not as if the world is going to come to a stop. And what you lose on one side you'll pick up somewhere else. The car tariffs seen here were minimal, someone buying a Range Rover isn't even going to notice it.SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.0 -
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
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Sterling trading at mid-January levels against the dollar. So much for it hysteria being peddled just a week or two ago.0
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Dream on. Oh, I forgot, BMW would close down if there was a tariff barrier to export cars to the UK. With our 9 month wait, they could sell cars here even if there was a 10% tariff.nigel4england said:
I don't really see the problem, it is not in our nature to be spiteful and I think we should allow the EU to continue to trade freely with us, after all 5m EU jobs depend on their trade with us.SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.0 -
The UK is BMWs most profitable market, I suspect they might care a bit.surbiton said:
Dream on. Oh, I forgot, BMW would close down if there was a tariff barrier to export cars to the UK. With our 9 month wait, they could sell cars here even if there was a 10% tariff.nigel4england said:
I don't really see the problem, it is not in our nature to be spiteful and I think we should allow the EU to continue to trade freely with us, after all 5m EU jobs depend on their trade with us.SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.0 -
How big a deal was it to get a visa to reside in Spain in the late 80s..0
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Being pragmatic ?Scott_P said:Still going well...
@derekrootboy: John McDonnell has surrendered to the capitalist parasites. He is now nothing more than a #Blairite. What the hell is he doing? #c4news0 -
Reading McDonnell's thoughts on balancing budgets and fiscal rules in the Guardian this morning I am sure I could hear the distant cry of "BETRAYAL!!!" through the windows.surbiton said:
Being pragmatic ?Scott_P said:Still going well...
@derekrootboy: John McDonnell has surrendered to the capitalist parasites. He is now nothing more than a #Blairite. What the hell is he doing? #c4news
So it begins for the Left, yet again...0 -
The thing is Remain supporters keep saying its far worse without any arguments substantiating that. Whereas Leave can point to Canada deal and say you avoid 98% of EU tariffs, it covers services and you can also sign new trade deals with the remaining 80% of world economy. And you can control immigration to boot.SouthamObserver said:
But Boris is not advocating that. As I've said a few times, the EEA/EFTA option is not scary. The Canada option is far worse. Having the probable PM if Leave wins advocating it is a bit of a worry, to say the least!Philip_Thompson said:
However the EEA does include passporting: http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/pra/Pages/authorisations/passporting/default.aspxSouthamObserver said:Canada/EU deal, financial services ...
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/7083689508878991370 -
London was leading financial centre in the world long before the EU financial passport even existed. Most of its business is with non-EU countries, and non-EU is growing fastest.0
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Was it? It's a particularly poor point.SouthamObserver said:
It's not free movement. That was my point.
Neither is truly 'free movement', just different but allowing the same result.0 -
No idea but most of the criminal fraternity seemed to manage it.richardDodd said:How big a deal was it to get a visa to reside in Spain in the late 80s..
0 -
The CCHQ shills were only following orders... They have now moved onto arguing that it was not reckless of Cameron to offer a referendum despite him implying that the UK will become a third world country should it leave the EU.chestnut said:Sterling trading at mid-January levels against the dollar. So much for it hysteria being peddled just a week or two ago.
0 -
This the best bit...rottenborough said:Reading McDonnell's thoughts on balancing budgets and fiscal rules in the Guardian this morning I am sure I could hear the distant cry of "BETRAYAL!!!" through the windows.
So it begins for the Left, yet again...
@paulmasonnews: For the dimwits who think McDonnell just re-announced Ed Balls' fiscal rule https://t.co/2hyFfTQEUI
@hopisen: Are they Dimwits? @paulmasonnews https://t.co/edea2nTXnu0 -
Also, in CETA, the EU wanted closer integration in finance but it was Canada that was resistant.0
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nigel4england said:
No idea but most of the criminal fraternity seemed to manage it.richardDodd said:How big a deal was it to get a visa to reside in Spain in the late 80s..
0 -
The UK imported £219bn worth of EU product in 2015.
How much would tariffs generate for the exchequer in import duties?0 -
Remainers are the real Little Englanders. We're too wee, too poor, too stupid, eek. So wet.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.0 -
The real problem Remain have with Canada option coming to forefront is that it seems such a good model for the UK. Canada is seen as an economy of similar status to ours, a well-run economically sucessful place, and with a political and societal culture like us. Its easy for Remain to mock little European countries that people know little about, but not Canada.0
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7 years to negotiate less access than we have now.NorfolkTilIDie said:The real problem Remain have with Canada option coming to forefront is that it seems such a good model for the UK.
That's a GREAT model...0 -
Terms like "no guarantee" are such politicians language. "Even though you don't like what we have in fridge you shouldn't go to shops to buy something better as its effort to get there and theres no guarantee you won't get hit by a car on the way."SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.0 -
"...what is difficult is agreeing to change trading arrangement, not agreeing to have trading arrangements. The UK already has trading arrangements with the EU and non-EU countries. Those might well be slow to change. "
http://www.andrewlilico.com/2016/03/11/when-no-new-trade-deal-is-agreed-things-stay-as-they-were-before/
0 -
Its more access because it allows us to get more access with other markets. And it means we can control immigration and avoid EU law.Scott_P said:
7 years to negotiate less access than we have now.NorfolkTilIDie said:The real problem Remain have with Canada option coming to forefront is that it seems such a good model for the UK.
That's a GREAT model...0 -
I believe we can trade across the world now and maximise the potential of the single market in Europe. You don't.MonikerDiCanio said:
Remainers are the real Little Englanders. We're too wee, too poor, too stupid, eek. So wet.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
0 -
You left off the Biblical End of Days scenario.MP_SE said:
The CCHQ shills were only following orders... They have now moved onto arguing that it was not reckless of Cameron to offer a referendum despite him implying that the UK will become a third world country should it leave the EU.chestnut said:Sterling trading at mid-January levels against the dollar. So much for it hysteria being peddled just a week or two ago.
0 -
@StrongerIn: Boris outdid himself in his speech today: 1 factual error every 80 seconds. Here they are: https://t.co/11XCCCBekT https://t.co/D7gVG4BNlc0
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How ? We haven't even got a european single market nowSouthamObserver said:
I believe we can trade across the world now and maximise the potential of the single market in Europe. You don't.MonikerDiCanio said:
Remainers are the real Little Englanders. We're too wee, too poor, too stupid, eek. So wet.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
You laugh at 7 years and Canada yet we were meant to have a single market 24 years ago and that;s with people who are meant to be on our side.0 -
NorfolkTilIDie said:
We have guaranteed access to a single market now. I am perplexed why people want to give that up in favour of less access with no level of certainty we will get ameliorating deals with other trading partners. Just saying it'll all be fine is not good enough for me, I admit.SouthamObserver said:
Terms like "no guarantee" are such politicians language. "Even though you don't like what we have in fridge you shouldn't go to shops to buy something better as its effort to get there and theres no guarantee you won't get hit by a car on the way."Philip_Thompson said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.0 -
Except that right now membership of the EU prevents us getting those trade deals unless the rest of the EU wants it. It prevents us arranging our own terms for trade deals.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
As an aside the EEA has had a trade deal with Canada since 2009. If we had been in the EEA we would have had that deal for the last 7 years - whilst the EU has still been talking about it.0 -
We won't get our own terms negotiating with the US, China, India etc. We will get what they decide to give us when they decide to give it to us.Richard_Tyndall said:
Except that right now membership of the EU prevents us getting those trade deals unless the rest of the EU wants it. It prevents us arranging our own terms for trade deals.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
As an aside the EEA has had a trade deal with Canada since 2009. If we had been in the EEA we would have had that deal for the last 7 years - whilst the EU has still been talking about it.
0 -
Ahem (EFTA, Richard, not EEA).Richard_Tyndall said:
Except that right now membership of the EU prevents us getting those trade deals unless the rest of the EU wants it. It prevents us arranging our own terms for trade deals.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
As an aside the EEA has had a trade deal with Canada since 2009. If we had been in the EEA we would have had that deal for the last 7 years - whilst the EU has still been talking about it.
EFTA also has a trade deal with the GCC that the EU doesn't have.0 -
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Anyway thrilling as the EU is it will pale away compared to Africa.
Interesting article
http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/Africa-in-100-years/index.html0 -
Aren't Leave in a paradoxical situation. On the one hand they moan that the EU is reluctant to make trade deals (China and India are usually cited) and takes its time when it does so (eight years being the rough average) . On the other hand they think a fast-track treaty with the EU (likely to remain our main trading partners for the foreseeable future) is the way forward for the UK post Brexit.0
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We are all competing with each other. I just don't see what we gain by voluntarily teducing our access to a single market of over 500 million people.Alanbrooke said:
How ? We haven't even got a european single market nowSouthamObserver said:
I believe we can trade across the world now and maximise the potential of the single market in Europe. You don't.MonikerDiCanio said:
Remainers are the real Little Englanders. We're too wee, too poor, too stupid, eek. So wet.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
You laugh at 7 years and Canada yet we were meant to have a single market 24 years ago and that;s with people who are meant to be on our side.
0 -
Defeatist codswallop. Where's your pride ?SouthamObserver said:
We won't get our own terms negotiating with the US, China, India etc. We will get what they decide to give us when they decide to give it to us.Richard_Tyndall said:
Except that right now membership of the EU prevents us getting those trade deals unless the rest of the EU wants it. It prevents us arranging our own terms for trade deals.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
As an aside the EEA has had a trade deal with Canada since 2009. If we had been in the EEA we would have had that deal for the last 7 years - whilst the EU has still been talking about it.0 -
The UK is a bigger economy than India. You Remainers do like to talk down Britain.SouthamObserver said:
We won't get our own terms negotiating with the US, China, India etc. We will get what they decide to give us when they decide to give it to us.Richard_Tyndall said:
Except that right now membership of the EU prevents us getting those trade deals unless the rest of the EU wants it. It prevents us arranging our own terms for trade deals.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. AdvocatingAlanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
As an aside the EEA has had a trade deal with Canada since 2009. If we had been in the EEA we would have had that deal for the last 7 years - whilst the EU has still been talking about it.
0 -
NoFernando said:Aren't Leave in a paradoxical situation. On the one hand they moan that the EU is reluctant to make trade deals (China and India are usually cited) and takes its time when it does so (eight years being the rough average) . On the other hand they think a fast-track treaty with the EU (likely to remain our main trading partners for the foreseeable future) is the way forward for the UK post Brexit.
0 -
Ha. I do love it when BSE so comprehensively shoot themselves in the foot.Scott_P said:@StrongerIn: Boris outdid himself in his speech today: 1 factual error every 80 seconds. Here they are: https://t.co/11XCCCBekT https://t.co/D7gVG4BNlc
To support their first claim of an error they quote Professor Iain Begg of the LSE as an Independent Expert. That would be the Professor Iain Begg who is a council member of the Federal Trust which campaigns for the UK to be part of a Federal EU?
Not exactly independent then.0 -
SouthamObserver said:
timing and customisation,Alanbrooke said:
We are all competing with each other. I just don't see what we gain by voluntarily teducing our access to a single market of over 500 million people.SouthamObserver said:
How ? We haven't even got a european single market nowMonikerDiCanio said:
I believe we can trade across the world now and maximise the potential of the single market in Europe. You don't.SouthamObserver said:
Remainers are the real Little Englanders. We're too wee, too poor, too stupid, eek. So wet.Philip_Thompson said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.SouthamObserver said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?Alanbrooke said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe.SouthamObserver said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.NorfolkTilIDie said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris bMost will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."
You laugh at 7 years and Canada yet we were meant to have a single market 24 years ago and that;s with people who are meant to be on our side.
you can do more deals quicker with more people and the number of contentious issues is reduced as we are negotiating as country not a continent.
It's easier to organise a meal than a banquet and you can order what suits you.0 -
Thanks Robert. Of course EFTA. In my defense I am ill.rcs1000 said:
Ahem (EFTA, Richard, not EEA).Richard_Tyndall said:
Except that right now membership of the EU prevents us getting those trade deals unless the rest of the EU wants it. It prevents us arranging our own terms for trade deals.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
As an aside the EEA has had a trade deal with Canada since 2009. If we had been in the EEA we would have had that deal for the last 7 years - whilst the EU has still been talking about it.
EFTA also has a trade deal with the GCC that the EU doesn't have.0 -
Whereas inside the EU we get what they decide to give us which is then watered down by what the rest of the EU want so we get very little.SouthamObserver said:
We won't get our own terms negotiating with the US, China, India etc. We will get what they decide to give us when they decide to give it to us.0 -
Reality trumps pride .MonikerDiCanio said:
Defeatist codswallop. Where's your pride ?SouthamObserver said:
We won't get our own terms negotiating with the US, China, India etc. We will get what they decide to give us when they decide to give it to us.Richard_Tyndall said:SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
0 -
Best wishes for a speedy recovery.Richard_Tyndall said:
Thanks Robert. Of course EFTA. In my defense I am ill.rcs1000 said:
Ahem (EFTA, Richard, not EEA).Richard_Tyndall said:
Except that right now membership of the EU prevents us getting those trade deals unless the rest of the EU wants it. It prevents us arranging our own terms for trade deals.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
As an aside the EEA has had a trade deal with Canada since 2009. If we had been in the EEA we would have had that deal for the last 7 years - whilst the EU has still been talking about it.
EFTA also has a trade deal with the GCC that the EU doesn't have.0 -
Perhaps we should become a province of Canada. We'd get access to the EU as well as being part of NAFTA. And we'd still have our beloved Queen as head of state.0
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Back in the real world, negotiating with India on trade, they barely have a free market within their own country
It's not the future I'm afraid, just cos it's in the Commonwealth -
most countries don't want free trade with competitors because it hurts powerful domestic lobby groups and large employers, as per the Trump/Sanders message -
and the UK is a major world economy, not a small, niche exporter like New Zealand, so trade is a threat to domestic lobbyists in the USA and elsewhere0 -
The trade deal has been negotiated over the last forty odd years. It is already in place.Fernando said:Aren't Leave in a paradoxical situation. On the one hand they moan that the EU is reluctant to make trade deals (China and India are usually cited) and takes its time when it does so (eight years being the rough average) . On the other hand they think a fast-track treaty with the EU (likely to remain our main trading partners for the foreseeable future) is the way forward for the UK post Brexit.
Why would the europeans, who sell us £219bn worth of product, making £61bn profit and employ five million people as a consequence, want to disrupt it?
I've yet to hear a persuasive explanation.0 -
Well put.NorfolkTilIDie said:
Terms like "no guarantee" are such politicians language. "Even though you don't like what we have in fridge you shouldn't go to shops to buy something better as its effort to get there and theres no guarantee you won't get hit by a car on the way."SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."Big_G_NorthWales said:Very interesting that Boris has come out for a Canadian style deal that commenced negotiations in 2009 and is still not in place, 7 years later. The problem for leave is that David Cameron pounced on Boris's choice saying, as he does straight into the camera, '7 years of uncertainty' and not as good a deal as we have now. It strikes me that Boris by coming out for a Canadian deal has compromised anything else as he is such a high profile campaigner. What happens when others in leave suggest EEA OR EFTA or anything else as they will look chaotic as Boris wants the Canada deal.
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.0 -
The point is more that leaving won't do any goodchestnut said:
The trade deal has been negotiated over the last forty odd years. It is already in place.Fernando said:Aren't Leave in a paradoxical situation. On the one hand they moan that the EU is reluctant to make trade deals (China and India are usually cited) and takes its time when it does so (eight years being the rough average) . On the other hand they think a fast-track treaty with the EU (likely to remain our main trading partners for the foreseeable future) is the way forward for the UK post Brexit.
Why would the europeans, who sell us £219bn worth of product, making £61bn profit and employ five million people as a consequence, want to disrupt it?
I've yet to hear a persuasive explanation.
The second hand is correct. The first hand is not correct - India is not going to open doors to trade - dare I say especially if some tonedeaf Leaver PM argues on the basis of shared heritage, the glorious Empire, etc0 -
If it does take eight years then what happens during that period?Fernando said:Aren't Leave in a paradoxical situation. On the one hand they moan that the EU is reluctant to make trade deals (China and India are usually cited) and takes its time when it does so (eight years being the rough average) . On the other hand they think a fast-track treaty with the EU (likely to remain our main trading partners for the foreseeable future) is the way forward for the UK post Brexit.
0 -
Of course it is independentRichard_Tyndall said:
Ha. I do love it when BSE so comprehensively shoot themselves in the foot.Scott_P said:@StrongerIn: Boris outdid himself in his speech today: 1 factual error every 80 seconds. Here they are: https://t.co/11XCCCBekT https://t.co/D7gVG4BNlc
To support their first claim of an error they quote Professor Iain Begg of the LSE as an Independent Expert. That would be the Professor Iain Begg who is a council member of the Federal Trust which campaigns for the UK to be part of a Federal EU?
Not exactly independent then.
He is not obviously dependent on a political party or lobby group for employment. Rather, he appears to be trustee of a group which he agrees with0 -
I tend to agree, though the effect of tariffs isn't wholly negative as seems to be the inference.rcs1000 said:
Prosperity does not lie in taxing tradechestnut said:The UK imported £219bn worth of EU product in 2015.
How much would tariffs generate for the exchequer in import duties?
HMRC currently pull in over £3bn in import duties.
It must pay for something.0 -
A lively Trump meeting in St. Louis...
https://twitter.com/search?q=place:0570f015c264cbd9A bloodied man dragged from Trump rally. pic.twitter.com/eyQxFL8Uht
— Trymaine Lee (@trymainelee) 11 March 20160 -
They wouldn't want to disrupt it, Chestnut. They would merely point out that there is a solution already in place: membership of the EEA.
Remember you are dealing with 27 countries, some of which have only a small amount of trade with the UK, and many whose over-riding concern will be to safeguard the interests of their citizens working here.
I'd counter challenge: why would they suddenly agree to our demands when they barely gave an inch during Cameron's negotiations?0 -
Access to a market of 500 million is worth serious compromise to achieve. Access to a market of 70 million less so. And within the EU (or EEA) we retain the freedom of movement we have now.Richard_Tyndall said:
Whereas inside the EU we get what they decide to give us which is then watered down by what the rest of the EU want so we get very little.SouthamObserver said:
We won't get our own terms negotiating with the US, China, India etc. We will get what they decide to give us when they decide to give it to us.
0 -
Yes. As part of the Common External Tariff it goes to the EU, and is part of our "contribution".chestnut said:
I tend to agree, though the effect of tariffs isn't wholly negative as seems to be the inference.rcs1000 said:
Prosperity does not lie in taxing tradechestnut said:The UK imported £219bn worth of EU product in 2015.
How much would tariffs generate for the exchequer in import duties?
HMRC currently pull in over £3bn in import duties.
It must pay for something.0 -
Of course he is not independent. This is not about political parties it is about ones underlying views on a specific issue. Having been a leading member of an organisation that is in favour of the UK being part of complete political union within the EU clearly undermines the idea that he will view the specific issue of UK membership of the EU objectively.EPG said:
Of course it is independentRichard_Tyndall said:
Ha. I do love it when BSE so comprehensively shoot themselves in the foot.Scott_P said:@StrongerIn: Boris outdid himself in his speech today: 1 factual error every 80 seconds. Here they are: https://t.co/11XCCCBekT https://t.co/D7gVG4BNlc
To support their first claim of an error they quote Professor Iain Begg of the LSE as an Independent Expert. That would be the Professor Iain Begg who is a council member of the Federal Trust which campaigns for the UK to be part of a Federal EU?
Not exactly independent then.
He is not obviously dependent on a political party or lobby group for employment. Rather, he appears to be trustee of a group which he agrees with
0 -
-
Whisky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Thanks Robert. Of course EFTA. In my defense I am ill.rcs1000 said:
Ahem (EFTA, Richard, not EEA).Richard_Tyndall said:
Except that right now membership of the EU prevents us getting those trade deals unless the rest of the EU wants it. It prevents us arranging our own terms for trade deals.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
As an aside the EEA has had a trade deal with Canada since 2009. If we had been in the EEA we would have had that deal for the last 7 years - whilst the EU has still been talking about it.
EFTA also has a trade deal with the GCC that the EU doesn't have.0 -
As you know I prefer the EEA option but when ranked I would certainly put them asSouthamObserver said:
Access to a market of 500 million is worth serious compromise to achieve. Access to a market of 70 million less so. And within the EU (or EEA) we retain the freedom of movement we have now.Richard_Tyndall said:
Whereas inside the EU we get what they decide to give us which is then watered down by what the rest of the EU want so we get very little.SouthamObserver said:
We won't get our own terms negotiating with the US, China, India etc. We will get what they decide to give us when they decide to give it to us.
1. EEA/EFTA
2. Canada Option
3. (By a very long way) EU
Basically any option that sees us outside the EU is better than any option staying in.0 -
nigel4england...quite a few of my friends managed to do it as well..even bought properties..and none of them were crooks..none of them seemed to have any difficulty obtaining permission.
0 -
North Korean isolation?Richard_Tyndall said:
As you know I prefer the EEA option but when ranked I would certainly put them asSouthamObserver said:
Access to a market of 500 million is worth serious compromise to achieve. Access to a market of 70 million less so. And within the EU (or EEA) we retain the freedom of movement we have now.Richard_Tyndall said:
Whereas inside the EU we get what they decide to give us which is then watered down by what the rest of the EU want so we get very little.SouthamObserver said:
We won't get our own terms negotiating with the US, China, India etc. We will get what they decide to give us when they decide to give it to us.
1. EEA/EFTA
2. Canada Option
3. (By a very long way) EU
Basically any option that sees us outside the EU is better than any option staying in.0 -
Very good!EPG said:
Of course it is independentRichard_Tyndall said:
Ha. I do love it when BSE so comprehensively shoot themselves in the foot.Scott_P said:@StrongerIn: Boris outdid himself in his speech today: 1 factual error every 80 seconds. Here they are: https://t.co/11XCCCBekT https://t.co/D7gVG4BNlc
To support their first claim of an error they quote Professor Iain Begg of the LSE as an Independent Expert. That would be the Professor Iain Begg who is a council member of the Federal Trust which campaigns for the UK to be part of a Federal EU?
Not exactly independent then.
He is not obviously dependent on a political party or lobby group for employment. Rather, he appears to be trustee of a group which he agrees with0 -
If you eliminate all tariffs, then there is no need to smuggle.MonikerDiCanio said:0 -
Rubio on TV today urging his supporters in Ohio to vote for Kasich.
If Kasich asks his voters in Florida to vote for Rubio then the calculation would be that Trump arrives at the convention with fewer than 1237 delegates, and after the first vote the negotiating can begin and Trump might be stopped.
It's desperate stuff and if the brokered convention is perceived as a fix then it could shatter the Republican party.
It would also hand the White House to the democrats.0 -
Unfortunately it is basically exhaustion and the associated illness that comes with that. What I really need is to take a couple of months off but in the current climate that is not an option.rcs1000 said:
Whisky.Richard_Tyndall said:
Thanks Robert. Of course EFTA. In my defense I am ill.rcs1000 said:
Ahem (EFTA, Richard, not EEA).Richard_Tyndall said:
Except that right now membership of the EU prevents us getting those trade deals unless the rest of the EU wants it. It prevents us arranging our own terms for trade deals.SouthamObserver said:
We can trade anywhere now. Leaving the EU is no guarantee we will get better deals than we have now or that the EU could negotiate.Philip_Thompson said:
How about dealing with the 80% of the globe by GDP that is outside of the EU, which the EU prevents us from doing right now?SouthamObserver said:
Yes, most countries are not in Europe. We are and we are currently part of a single market. Advocating a seven year wait to negotiate a deal that would reduce that access makes no sense to me. Of course we'd get along. But surely we want more than that.Alanbrooke said:
Actually I think that;s a bit silly.SouthamObserver said:
Taking seven years to get a deal that isn't as good as the one we have now doesn't look like a very productive use of time.NorfolkTilIDie said:The reaction from Cameron and Remain campaign is notable in how weak it is. Even if you accept it at face value, taking a few years to get something done isn't a reason for not doing it if its the right thing. Now Remain would say its not the right thing either, but they aren't making any persuasive arguments to that end. Things like "1% of tariffs still exist" or "a minority of companies would still have to abide by some regulation" sound so lame. Most will hear that and think "if thats the worse that can be said about it, can't be that bad... unlike EU."
The best post of the week for me was the one on who doesn't have a current trading agreement with the EU ( rcs1000 I think ) which was just about every major economy from USA to China.
Not having a EU deal is the norm not the exception and still everybody seems to get along.
As an aside the EEA has had a trade deal with Canada since 2009. If we had been in the EEA we would have had that deal for the last 7 years - whilst the EU has still been talking about it.
EFTA also has a trade deal with the GCC that the EU doesn't have.0 -
As long as I can be Kim.rcs1000 said:
North Korean isolation?Richard_Tyndall said:
As you know I prefer the EEA option but when ranked I would certainly put them asSouthamObserver said:
Access to a market of 500 million is worth serious compromise to achieve. Access to a market of 70 million less so. And within the EU (or EEA) we retain the freedom of movement we have now.Richard_Tyndall said:
Whereas inside the EU we get what they decide to give us which is then watered down by what the rest of the EU want so we get very little.SouthamObserver said:
We won't get our own terms negotiating with the US, China, India etc. We will get what they decide to give us when they decide to give it to us.
1. EEA/EFTA
2. Canada Option
3. (By a very long way) EU
Basically any option that sees us outside the EU is better than any option staying in.0 -
Rubio doesn't have any supporters in Ohio but his pathetic intervention should stimulate Trump enthusiasts to vote.Tim_B said:Rubio on TV today urging his supporters in Ohio to vote for Kasich.
If Kasich asks his voters in Florida to vote for Rubio then the calculation would be that Trump arrives at the convention with fewer than 1237 delegates, and after the first vote the negotiating can begin and Trump might be stopped.
It's desperate stuff and if the brokered convention is perceived as a fix then it could shatter the Republican party.
It would also hand the White House to the democrats.-1 -
No.Richard_Tyndall said:
Of course he is not independent. This is not about political parties it is about ones underlying views on a specific issue. Having been a leading member of an organisation that is in favour of the UK being part of complete political union within the EU clearly undermines the idea that he will view the specific issue of UK membership of the EU objectively.EPG said:
Of course it is independentRichard_Tyndall said:
Ha. I do love it when BSE so comprehensively shoot themselves in the foot.Scott_P said:@StrongerIn: Boris outdid himself in his speech today: 1 factual error every 80 seconds. Here they are: https://t.co/11XCCCBekT https://t.co/D7gVG4BNlc
To support their first claim of an error they quote Professor Iain Begg of the LSE as an Independent Expert. That would be the Professor Iain Begg who is a council member of the Federal Trust which campaigns for the UK to be part of a Federal EU?
Not exactly independent then.
He is not obviously dependent on a political party or lobby group for employment. Rather, he appears to be trustee of a group which he agrees with
First, almost by definition, nobody can view a topic objectively, we're all subjects viewing an object => subjectivity is universal
Second, it is likely that he thought about the issue of a federal EU before deciding to join a federal EU lobby group, so the ordering of the accusation is wrong0 -
We are not asking for anything we don't already have where trade is concerned, so there is no demand.Fernando said:They wouldn't want to disrupt it, Chestnut. They would merely point out that there is a solution already in place: membership of the EEA.
Remember you are dealing with 27 countries, some of which have only a small amount of trade with the UK, and many whose over-riding concern will be to safeguard the interests of their citizens working here.
I'd counter challenge: why would they suddenly agree to our demands when they barely gave an inch during Cameron's negotiations?
Some countries may not have significant direct links to us, but they are part of the Franco-Italian-German supply chain and these big nations have plenty riding on this.
The evidence of the EZ crisis is that the big players will expect the small to fall into line if there is enough riding on it.
0 -
new thread
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But his membership and support for such a group then informs subsequent decisions and views. If an economist who was also the Chairman of a local Tory association wrote an article praising George Osborne's handling if the economy no one would consider him an independent voice.EPG said:
No.Richard_Tyndall said:
Of course he is not independent. This is not about political parties it is about ones underlying views on a specific issue. Having been a leading member of an organisation that is in favour of the UK being part of complete political union within the EU clearly undermines the idea that he will view the specific issue of UK membership of the EU objectively.EPG said:
Of course it is independentRichard_Tyndall said:
Ha. I do love it when BSE so comprehensively shoot themselves in the foot.Scott_P said:@StrongerIn: Boris outdid himself in his speech today: 1 factual error every 80 seconds. Here they are: https://t.co/11XCCCBekT https://t.co/D7gVG4BNlc
To support their first claim of an error they quote Professor Iain Begg of the LSE as an Independent Expert. That would be the Professor Iain Begg who is a council member of the Federal Trust which campaigns for the UK to be part of a Federal EU?
Not exactly independent then.
He is not obviously dependent on a political party or lobby group for employment. Rather, he appears to be trustee of a group which he agrees with
First, almost by definition, nobody can view a topic objectively, we're all subjects viewing an object => subjectivity is universal
Second, it is likely that he thought about the issue of a federal EU before deciding to join a federal EU lobby group, so the ordering of the accusation is wrong
Begg is a senior member of an organisation that wants to see the UK subsumed into a Federal EU. As such he us in no way independent on this issue.0 -
Chestnut, if 10% of exports were at risk, it would amount to half of one percent of their total and barely register. We would lose 4-5% of our exports and companies would start laying off workers.
Also, I suspect we don't have the range of industries which the rest of the EU possesses. Thus, they are more likely to replace what we supplied; whereas we would still need to import.0 -
BSE are rattled.Scott_P said:@StrongerIn: Boris outdid himself in his speech today: 1 factual error every 80 seconds. Here they are: https://t.co/11XCCCBekT https://t.co/D7gVG4BNlc
0 -
Impacts must be measured by £ or € by nation state to understand the levers with each nation. The % isn't legal tender anywhere.Fernando said:Chestnut, if 10% of exports were at risk, it would amount to half of one percent of their total and barely register. We would lose 4-5% of our exports and companies would start laying off workers.
Also, I suspect we don't have the range of industries which the rest of the EU possesses. Thus, they are more likely to replace what we supplied; whereas we would still need to import.
Additionally, the EU (exUK) is not a single nation. It is 27 different nations, with 27 leaders, 27 sets of consequences etc. Establish the levers with each on an individual basis.
Finally, as a net importer a change makes us attractive to alternative suppliers and provides the opportunity to grow domestic production. As net exporters, they just lose customers.0 -
test0
